1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: M Hey everybody, it's Saturday, and I've got to tell 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: you I heard something about Jerry the other day that 3 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: I don't know if I should say, but if you 4 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: promise not to tell anyone, I will tell you right now. 5 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: She is pretty great. That's called bad gossip. No one 6 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: wants to hear gossip like that. The only good gossip 7 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:22,960 Speaker 1: is maybe to say that Jerry is not great for 8 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:24,639 Speaker 1: a list of reasons. But I'm not going to do 9 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: that because Jerry is great. But you could listen to 10 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: this episode from December, a Christmas episode. It's all about 11 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: gossip and it's called How Gossip Works. Welcome to Stuff 12 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 1: you should know, a production of I Heart Radio. Hey, 13 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark and there's 14 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 1: Charles w Chuck Bryant and uh, it's just two of 15 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: us again. Man, not getting any easier. This is just 16 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: let's getting old, it is, man. We need Jerry back. 17 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 1: Where are you, Jerry? Where did you go? I selfish? 18 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:08,320 Speaker 1: Jerry wants to be at home with her baby. Yeah, 19 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: we all went to shopping at Kmart and she wandered 20 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:13,479 Speaker 1: off and we haven't seen her since. We all want 21 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 1: to be at home with Jerry's baby. Sure, that's a 22 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 1: cute baby, but we can't be you know the old 23 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:23,199 Speaker 1: joke that Jerry could be replaced with a those dipping 24 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: birds just to hit record. We were just kidding. It's 25 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: that's happening. It is true, maybe not the post production stuff, 26 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 1: but definitely the recording thing. Clearly takes a finger to say, Okay, 27 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: you guys are rolling. Yeah, we cannot stop griping about 28 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: this time. I know it's just weird. You know, when 29 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: a threesome becomes to twosome, things get awkward. Yeah, I try, 30 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 1: it becomes a diade, or when it twosome becomes a 31 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: threesome that gets super awkward. Or I mean really, anytime 32 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: you're moving people in and out of some sort of dynamics, 33 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: it can be weird. Transition could be rough, I think 34 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: is the that's what you put on the T shirt. Ultimately, 35 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: al right, the transition is rough anytime you're moving people 36 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 1: in and out of a dynamic. Ready, yes, didn't know 37 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: you say that already. Yeah we're recording, Chuck, I have 38 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 1: something for you. Right. I am not much of a 39 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: gossip at all. I just don't do it. But do 40 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 1: you know who does Jerry a lot, and she's really vicious. 41 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: I know she's not here right now, but just between 42 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 1: the two of us, I don't gossip. Jerry does, and 43 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 1: you should really watch out for her. I heard that 44 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 1: she gossips. I'm not saying that, but I just heard that. 45 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: I got you, well, I've seen her do it. She's 46 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: gossip to me because she finds me very important and 47 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 1: likes to confide to me. But it's just so vicious. 48 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: So we just gossiped. We did. That was play acting. 49 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: The ironic thing was that I was gossiping about how 50 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 1: I don't gossip. That that came through. Huh, everybody gossips, Yeah, 51 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: I guess so. I mean, apparently people gossip way more 52 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:05,799 Speaker 1: than they realize. But I think you're I think gossip 53 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: is a normal thing. It has such a bad connotation 54 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: though that people say, like, I don't gossip, I'm not 55 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: a gossip but liars. Technically, not necessarily even liars. I 56 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: think it also as far as like linguists and psychologists 57 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: are concerned, it comes from a misunderstanding of what gossip, 58 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: what constitutes gossip. That's right, Like, at its basic, barest, 59 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: bare bottomed element, gossip is simply too, or it can 60 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: be more but a couple of people speaking about a 61 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: third person's business while the third person isn't there. There's 62 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: another person who's being talked about who isn't there. It 63 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean you're talking about how they're just just 64 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: what allows you parents. They are sure spending baby shoe 65 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: money on gambling rather than gambling in order to get 66 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: more shoes. That's bad parenting right there. There's all sorts 67 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: of stuff you can say, but you could also say, actually, 68 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: that guy is a great dude. He spends all of 69 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: his money on nothing but baby shoes. That's gossip. It 70 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: is gossip, and it's not necessarily harmful. It's in this 71 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: case you're you're helping someone else's social status in the 72 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: other people's eyes. That's still gossip. Yeah, I think, um, 73 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 1: what's this tracy of stuff you missed in history class? 74 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: Wrote this one? That is true? She's always thorough and 75 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:27,919 Speaker 1: uh she included in here something I thought was pretty 76 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 1: pertinent gossip v rumor Yeah. Uh, And there are differences 77 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:37,279 Speaker 1: in Um, well, I say there's differences, but if you 78 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: ask professionals who study this, and there are weirdos who 79 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: do that Um, they will say sometimes now it's the 80 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: same thing. Or a rumor is just a type of gossip. Uh, 81 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 1: here's some other distinguishing factors. Gossip is based in fact, 82 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 1: rumors are based in hypotheses. Um, I don't know about 83 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: that one. That makes sense to me because it kind 84 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: of ties in with the last one. Yeah, gossip is 85 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: a tool for maintaining social order, which we're gonna talk 86 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: about at length. Rumor is a tool for explaining things 87 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: that people do not understand. I'm not sure I get 88 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: that one. Like there's garbage raining from the sky, it's 89 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 1: the government, that's a rumor, okay. Whereas if you're like 90 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: Charles is up on the roof again dumping his garbage 91 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: out on the street's technically so yeah, or that's just 92 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:26,919 Speaker 1: laying it out there, you know. Yeah true. Uh. And 93 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: then finally, gossip or late something people believe has happened, 94 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: but rumor expresses something people hope or fear will happen. 95 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 1: So I have my own hypothesis of the distinction between 96 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: rumor and gossip. It's here, Uh, rumor is uncurated gossip rumors. 97 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: Any dude walking down the street, you can be like, 98 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 1: there's garbage falling from this guy and it's the government. 99 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,359 Speaker 1: There's no bond that's formed. There's no requirement of a bond, 100 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: whereas gossip requires some sort of connection, or you're forming 101 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: a connection from the gossip. You know what I'm saying. 102 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,159 Speaker 1: Rumbor is just for anybody. Gossip is between confidence to 103 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: an extent. Yeah, and Tracy points that out too, And 104 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 1: that is why supposedly celebrity gossip isn't qualified, doesn't qualify 105 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: as gossip because it's a third party that doesn't know 106 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,479 Speaker 1: the others in general, unless it's you know, Jennifer Ranison, 107 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: it's talking smack about Angelina. No, she would never do that. 108 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: Oh really, No, she loves courting cocks. They're still friends. 109 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: Huh sure. Why doesn't she ever have around cougar Town? 110 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: Then I think she was on cougar Town? Well I 111 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: stayed corrected, although I have no idea because I've never 112 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 1: seen cougar down. Did you hear about what happened when 113 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: she was on cougar Town? I heard she washed her 114 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: hair and heavy and water. That's Shannon Doherty? Yeah, that's right. 115 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: Is that a rumor? Gossip? I don't know, because we 116 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: don't know Shannon dherty. Uh. And then there are some 117 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 1: other stipulations that researchers point out for gossip that I 118 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 1: also take issue with. Some of these. Um, the conversation 119 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 1: takes place in private usually the case, yeah, if not 120 00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: like actual private depends on what private means. You you, 121 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: everybody's got the shoulders turn. There's like a creation of 122 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 1: a private situation. Yeah, I got you. Uh. People are 123 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: saying it as if it were fact, even though it's 124 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 1: not confirmed. That's definitely true. Yeah, but that's not necessarily 125 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 1: the case. That's I take issue with that one. It's 126 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 1: kind of like you were saying, like I heard, but 127 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: I haven't checked it out to take it with a 128 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: grain of salt. But get this yeah man uh people, Yeah, 129 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: we already talked about that knowing each other. And then 130 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: the body language and tone, uh suggests a moral judgment. 131 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: That's a big one, you know, like when people use 132 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 1: this tone. But again, that's malicious gossip. Typically there's such 133 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: a thing, So this is it should be said. Tracy 134 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: doesn't really say it in this Um. I think she 135 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 1: was drinking while she was writing this one. That's what 136 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: I heard. Um, she didn't lay out that there's really 137 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: two types of gossip. One is malicious gossip. That's the 138 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: type of gossip people think about when they hear the 139 00:07:56,680 --> 00:08:00,080 Speaker 1: word gossip. But the other type, the far more are 140 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: apparently far more prevalent type, is um regular gossip. Yeah, 141 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: there's some weird, unsubstantiated stat here that only that five 142 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: was malicious, Yeah among most gossip. Yeah, how in the 143 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: world did they pull that out of their key start? 144 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: Here's that's a great question. So they are linguists, historians, uh, anthropologists, psychologists, 145 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: people who started studying gossip for a very long time. 146 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 1: Everyone is aware of gossip, but they're like, it's just noise. 147 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 1: It's not to be studied, it's to be ignored. And 148 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, there's this really great article 149 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: in The Atlantic that talked about gossip and how it 150 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 1: was viewed um and specifically, there was this thing in 151 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 1: sixteenth and seventeenth century England they didn't like it, called 152 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: the scolds bridle. And if you want to see what 153 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: a scolds bridle is, you should check that out online, 154 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: because there are actual such things. But they're basically iron 155 00:08:55,720 --> 00:09:01,079 Speaker 1: masks with like points sticking into the The woman who 156 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: was accused of gossip's mouth usually a woman and she 157 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: would just have to wear that and be publicly humiliated. 158 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: A lot of them had like a leash leading from them. 159 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: So I guess the gossip or the scold is what 160 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: they used to call, could be paraded around town, right, Yeah, 161 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: and also get the feeling that a lot of women 162 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: were probably made to wear those who just talked too much. Yeah, 163 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: I would I have the same the same impression because 164 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: of the time period of So that's how people typically 165 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: viewed gossip. It was something to be stamped out. It 166 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: was something that was um very undesirable, and academia treated 167 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,439 Speaker 1: it the same way. Then World War two came around 168 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: and I think the government saw that there was some 169 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 1: real harm that could be done with gossip, with rumors, 170 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 1: and they wanted to start to understand that. So that 171 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: kind of led to the basis of academia investigating what 172 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 1: gossip was, what rumors are, and then um, over time 173 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,679 Speaker 1: organizations got in on the act because there came this 174 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 1: idea you that if the rumor mill or the gossip 175 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: mill in your office was really going over time, you 176 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 1: needed to stamp that out. True. They've found the opposite 177 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: is actually true. Yeah, they found it can do a 178 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,079 Speaker 1: lot in a workplace to keep people in line, Uh, 179 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: either by scaring them in line or what it What 180 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: it seems like a lot of gossip does in that 181 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: kind of environment, is it establishes like the norms and 182 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: the culture is expected out of the bosses. That's like 183 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: one low level that's like low level background gossip if 184 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 1: it's peaking and really working over time. You, from what 185 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: I understand, you're not supposed to attack the gossips. What 186 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: you're supposed to do is be more transparent at the top, 187 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: and then people don't have reason to gossip. So it's 188 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: not It doesn't mean that you have a lot of 189 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: gossips at your place. That's a normal human situation. As 190 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: we'll see, it means that your managers and the people 191 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: who are running the show aren't being open enough for 192 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: the the hoi polois tastes, right, see what I mean? Yeah, 193 00:10:57,679 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: good point, And that was a big thing that came 194 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: out of study it. But to answer your question, I'm 195 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: about to finish, they study it by eavesdropping on like 196 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: people who are talking in cafeterious. That's how about the 197 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: only way you can Yeah, because it's so spontaneous and 198 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: it's largely unconscious. Yeah, unless it's you know, just some 199 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: dumb pole where you're asking people about gossip and self 200 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: reporting poles like that. I don't put a lot of 201 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: stock in you know, Well, actually they're funny to look at. 202 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: There's one that found that about we spend about three 203 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 1: quarters of our time gossiping apparently. Yeah, and that's in 204 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: the broadest sense of the definition, right, not necessarily malicious. Yeah, 205 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: because about five percent of that supposed lyst malicious. But 206 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: people self report gossiping about they they spend about thirty 207 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 1: percent of their time. So rather than people are like, oh, 208 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 1: only gossip, yea, and all that comes from eavesdropping on 209 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 1: people and then asking them afterwards whether they gossip. Tracy 210 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: points out rightfully so that most world religions have always 211 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: said gossip is a bad thing. Uh, include in the 212 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: Christian Bible. Uh in Leviticus, Thou'll shalt not go up 213 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 1: and down as a talebearer among thy people. Oh that 214 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:12,679 Speaker 1: was good. By the way, I wanna echo the kudos 215 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: that have wrong throughout social media, applauding your scary spider 216 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: growing redneck man. In the Halloween episode, it was cleardis 217 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 1: a slack jold yokel sort of and my friend Big John, well, 218 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: it was good. It was a mashup. I appreciate that 219 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: it was Big John in New York. No, he's in 220 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: he's in Atlanta. Okay. Um. I actually thought your your 221 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:36,559 Speaker 1: vomit take was the funniest part of the whole thing, 222 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: the gag, thank you, thank you. Uh. Jewish tour always 223 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: also says so in Buddhism. We've talked about Buddhism before 224 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: the eight full Path to Enlightenment. No place for gossip there, 225 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 1: my friend, No way, not if you want to become 226 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 1: one with the universe, no gossiping. And like like I 227 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: said earlier too, it's not just the religious hypes that 228 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: are against it. People. And remember the business world kind 229 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: of started looking in on this, and they're like, don't 230 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 1: gossip if you want to be a good person, don't 231 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: gossip and spreading unless you're spreading a gossip rumor that 232 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: we want you to spread. Right, that's the official company line. Uh. 233 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: And then there's this dude, Robin Dunbar, who wrote a 234 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: book called Grooming, Gossip and the Evolution of Language. And 235 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: I looked into this guy. He he really goes for it. 236 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 1: He says that gossip is the whole reason that we 237 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:37,559 Speaker 1: have language, and it evolved from primates grooming each other 238 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 1: and that took so much time to groom one another 239 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: and it wasn't efficient. That language was created in order 240 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:47,559 Speaker 1: to not have to groom one another, and so you 241 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,680 Speaker 1: would vocal groom, that's what he called it. So this 242 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: kind of a big deal. Let's let's take a break 243 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:55,679 Speaker 1: for a second because we're pretty deep into this, and 244 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: we'll talk about Dunbar and his mad ideas after this. 245 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: All right, Dunbar, Dunbar can't put them off any longer, 246 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: Robin Dunbar. Yeah, that's a pretty out there theory. I 247 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: think like Dunbar is saying, we developed language so we 248 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: could gossip in in essence. Yeah, the tide of grooming 249 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: is where he loses me a bit, and vocal grooming, 250 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: I'm just he says basically it was a more efficient 251 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: way to uh service your allies rather than grooming one another. Right, 252 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: So I think what he's saying is that when you 253 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: win a primate grooms another primate, it's an act of 254 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: um kindness. It's saying like I'm doing something nice for you. 255 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: It gives the other primate who's being groomed, an opportunity 256 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: to reciprocate, INSUREM and even stronger bond. Right, scratch my back. 257 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: But it takes a little while to do all this 258 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: stuff because you're actually going through the act of grooming, 259 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: whereas if you just gossip about somebody, Um, you can 260 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: do a lot of that same stuff, but just by talking. Yeah, 261 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: but I don't get what it has to do with 262 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: picking knits out of fur. It's it's I think what 263 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: he's saying is it's it developed out of that. It 264 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 1: serves a lot of the same purposes. Plus also it's 265 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: entirely possible that gossip began around the time or I 266 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: guess during grooming sessions. Think about it, If you're just 267 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: sitting there picking knits out of somebody, are you just 268 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: gonna sit there silently not chat start chatting? How how 269 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: easy is it going to be to lead to tuck 270 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: tuck and what he did after he ate that for minute? Apple, Sure, 271 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: it's like the barbershop or the beauty shop, right kind of. Um, 272 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: there are some different roles though that it does play 273 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 1: in social interactions where I guess the grooming thing comes 274 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:01,359 Speaker 1: into play. Um, entertaining one another, like you said, influence 275 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: on one another. That's a big one. Um. Exchanging information, 276 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: that's important, uh. And one of the biggest ones is 277 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: learning from mistakes that UH linguists point out is a 278 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: really big part of gossip, or a part of positive gossip, 279 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: and that there's oftentimes a moral lesson attached to it. Yeah, 280 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: like you don't want this to happen to you, right, No, exactly, 281 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 1: and it kind of um in that respect. It gets 282 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 1: across somebody who's perhaps a little more established in a group, 283 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: maybe an older person, like ingratiate yourself, right, But but 284 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: it's also saying, like I'm a part of this group. 285 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: You're a little newer than I am. Let me tell 286 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: you the story about what this guy did when he 287 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: transgressed against the group and bad things befell him. Like 288 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: you said, don't let this happen to you. Don't transgress 289 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 1: the group's boundaries, right, And that's important if you get 290 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 1: if you're like a new hire, they say, a lot 291 00:16:56,440 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: of gossip flies, uh. Like I remember the movie Be Big, 292 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 1: Remember when Tom Hanks gets hired. Like the very first 293 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 1: thing that happens is John Lovitts comes over and starts 294 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:09,919 Speaker 1: talking about all the gossip of everyone in the office. 295 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 1: I don't remember that part. Oh yeah, he talks about 296 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: like this lady is easy and this guy's a jerk, 297 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 1: and it's just pretty common. I think when you get 298 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 1: a new job, there's always someone in there that's like 299 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,400 Speaker 1: And what they're doing, though, is they're not just it's 300 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: not purely they're trying to help themselves. It's socialization. It's 301 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: in dr nature. Oh that's not what I thought you 302 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: were gonna say. No, Like, I think they're trying to 303 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: be like, well here's a new ally I can get right, Yeah, 304 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 1: so let me let me you know. I mean, it's 305 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 1: it's they're also it's reciprocal, I guess to a certain degree. Yeah, 306 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: both people are getting something out of it. But I mean, 307 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: you make a good point. The person who is doing 308 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,199 Speaker 1: the gossiping, especially in that situation, is setting themselves up 309 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:53,679 Speaker 1: as a like a wise older sage or advisor, like 310 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:56,199 Speaker 1: I know this place. You come to me if you 311 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: want some information. Well you'll find though over the years, 312 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: is that you should. The first person who comes up 313 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 1: and starts gossiping to you about how the office works 314 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: is usually also the most disliked. Yeah, you know, that's 315 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,879 Speaker 1: why they cast John Lovett. He's great for that. That 316 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 1: or the dude with forehead the size of a dinner 317 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: plate who was in all the eighties movies as that character? 318 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 1: Was he the jerkin big I don't know, is the 319 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: dad from Home Alone? No? No, no, this is um 320 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: the coked up sidekick from the eighties with the huge forehead. 321 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: He was in About You. He was the sidekicking mad 322 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 1: about you. Oh that guy? Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, same 323 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: same function. Yeah, he's uh. He's in that show now, 324 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 1: ah with Joey Tribbiani. It's called Joey, Melissa and Joey. No, 325 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 1: he's on the episodes. Yeah, yeah, he's on episodes too, Okay, great. 326 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:55,360 Speaker 1: Does he play himself now? He plays a jerk? Um 327 00:18:55,760 --> 00:19:01,199 Speaker 1: uh TV executive perfect, exactly. I love that guy that. 328 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: He's such a good actor. No, that's what I'm saying. 329 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: But he always plays that part. He's definitely he's got 330 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 1: that part down. You're right, he's not a romantic lead. Um. 331 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:11,919 Speaker 1: A lot of times. The feeling of superiority is another 332 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 1: big part of gossip, like I would never do this um. 333 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 1: And Tracy also points out the old schaden freuda, which 334 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 1: is one of my favorite words. It's a good word 335 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: and one of my least favorite things. That's you must 336 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,479 Speaker 1: be very ambivalent about that word. What do you mean? Well, 337 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 1: if you love it but you also hate what it means, well, 338 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,439 Speaker 1: let's got to tear you up inside. Well. I just 339 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 1: don't like someone delighting in someone else's misfortune unless it's 340 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 1: a bad person. Yeah, Like if the Jimmy John's guy 341 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,119 Speaker 1: like shot his toe off on a big game hunt. 342 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he's a big game hunter. I would probably 343 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 1: think that was kind of you know, just as I 344 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 1: think that's acceptable shot in freuda, Okay, especially if it 345 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: was just a relatively minor injury. You know, you go 346 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 1: shod in. Yeah, you say shaden shod and frauda. That's 347 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: how I say it, So, Chuck, kind of what a 348 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,919 Speaker 1: couple of Like we've were kind of dancing back and 349 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 1: forth across this line, like going to the office, setting 350 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 1: up the first day and having somebody come over and 351 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: tell you how the things work. Yes, there might be 352 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: a little bit of malicious gossip in there, but for 353 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,640 Speaker 1: the most part, that's not bad gossip. That's neutral gossip, right, 354 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: But putting someone else down or talking about how how 355 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: much superior you are by not you would never do 356 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: what they did. That's definitely the malicious variety. And there's 357 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 1: an idea that if gossip evolved like um, Robin yeah, like, 358 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 1: like Robin Leach says in his post Rich and Famous 359 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:48,680 Speaker 1: Career he became an anthropologist, you know, Um, Robin Leach 360 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: says that if if language evolved as a means of gossiping, 361 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:59,679 Speaker 1: the guy takes it further by saying, Um, the reason gossip, 362 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: of the reason we needed that in the first place 363 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: was because we grew out of these little hunter gatherer 364 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: bands of like fifteen people, and as our societies grew 365 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: larger and larger, we weren't as able to be able 366 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:14,880 Speaker 1: to keep tabs personally on others in this group that's 367 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: getting bigger and bigger, So you don't know who to trust. 368 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: You know, if I'm going to leave my crops to 369 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: somebody while I go on a walk about or something, 370 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: I need to make sure that all my crops are 371 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: going to be there when I get back, you know, 372 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 1: but I don't really know this guy. Gossiping serves that function. 373 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:30,639 Speaker 1: It's it's like a stand in for being able to 374 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: keep tabs on everybody else in the society, because when 375 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 1: you gossip with somebody, you're sharing a trust, a bond 376 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: that they're not going to use that information against you 377 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,879 Speaker 1: that you shared with them. And um, so there's a 378 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: there's a definite element of trust to it. And when 379 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: when people gossip in a larger society, they're they're trusting 380 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 1: that the person is either vouching for the person or 381 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,639 Speaker 1: they're being warned against trusting that third party. Right, So 382 00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: it works in that same way that it's like a 383 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: it's a means of um keeping tabs on everybody at 384 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 1: the same time. On the other hand, or at the 385 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: same time, it's also um a means of social control 386 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: because if you know people are gossiping about everybody else, 387 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: then surely they're gonna gossip about you too, which means 388 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: you better just be an upstanding, upright person. Yeah, there 389 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 1: was this uh, this what's his first name, Fineberg, let's 390 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:29,679 Speaker 1: just say Dr Fineberg, Dr Fineberg at Toronto in Toronto, 391 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: University of Toronto. He's done some studies and he did 392 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: find in fact that uh, basically they did these studies 393 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: where they were um, were you were allowed to exclude 394 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 1: non co operators in like a group work setting, and 395 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: they found that you you set them out for one game, 396 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 1: like you've not been playing nicely, so you go sit 397 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: over there in the corner, and when they came back, 398 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,159 Speaker 1: they were more likely to behave in other rounds. And uh, 399 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: if they knew that their behavior was gossiped about people, 400 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 1: sort of like what you're talking about, the staring, Like 401 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 1: if you knew someone was watching you, you would return 402 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,199 Speaker 1: the grocery cart. If you know, if you know someone's 403 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,640 Speaker 1: gossiping about you, you're gonna tow that line and get 404 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 1: your act together exactly. It's again, it's a means of 405 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 1: social control. You know. Who were really really really good 406 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 1: at gossiping. Uh, the Puritans in colonial America, they were huge, 407 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 1: Like their whole society operated on gossip and the encouragement 408 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: of gossip. As a matter of fact, I think women 409 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 1: were called gossips um and not necessarily negatively. It's just 410 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: like there was a really good means of social control. 411 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: Not only was God watching you, your neighbors were too, 412 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: and they would go tell the preacher who would put 413 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: a scolds bridle on you and maybe them too for 414 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 1: telling and toss you in the lake. Yeah, and if 415 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:50,119 Speaker 1: you if you drowned, you weren't a witch. All right, 416 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: well let's take another break and we'll talk a little 417 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,680 Speaker 1: bit more about some studies and some other theories about 418 00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:18,879 Speaker 1: the origin of gossip. Uh so, Fineberg, we talked about 419 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: Dr Freinberg. Okay, I hope he or she is a doctor, um, 420 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: but if not, we just gave him an honorary honorary 421 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: doctorate from stuff. You should know you people are going 422 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 1: to request those now, which is great, but we can 423 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,679 Speaker 1: sell them. Uh So. One thing that he found is 424 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: that gossip can also relieve you, um, physiologically, Like if 425 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: you know that you're allowed to gossip, you won't get 426 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: as upset about unfair things then if you had to 427 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 1: hold it all in or it's like a way of 428 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: setting injustice, right yeah, like it's street justice without like 429 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: a Saudo shotgun as Charles Bronze I would dispense it right. 430 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:03,879 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, good point. Man. Have you gone back and 431 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:08,400 Speaker 1: seen Death Wish recently? That is a rough movie. Yeah, 432 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 1: of course, same with Death Wish too. What did you 433 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,159 Speaker 1: think it was? I mean, I remember seeing movies when 434 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: I was a kid and just being like, you know, 435 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: as a growing up You're like, this was nothing. That 436 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: was something. Those movies were very violent and very disturbing. 437 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,159 Speaker 1: You see, Joles Brunson did not ask questions. No, he 438 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:31,360 Speaker 1: just shot everybody. He did. Man, that was crazy. Why 439 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: why did you go back and rewatch Death Wish? I 440 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: gotta watch something good? Point it was on. That's why 441 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 1: I got you. I was like, I haven't seen Death 442 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: Wishing forever. When's the last time you saw it? It's 443 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,199 Speaker 1: been a while. It's disturbing, especially as an adult. You 444 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: know what movie I love? What Chardles Brunson movie I love? 445 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: Is a mechanic? Well, that one's good too. Um, what's 446 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: it called ten past Midnight? Is that right? I think 447 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,679 Speaker 1: that's on Netflix. Maybe there was. There was some creepy 448 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: serial killer, like psycho sexual killer that he was. He 449 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: was he's always hunting some money. He was the Liam 450 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: Neeson of his day. That was like supposedly a very 451 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 1: very underrated horror thriller, horror slasher thriller. I'm with you 452 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: all the way. I haven't seen it's good though, it's good. 453 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: I'll check it out. Very creepy and and I learned, 454 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: well it's not for kids because I learned some things 455 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 1: in that movie. Oh yeah, yeah, it's one of those 456 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,919 Speaker 1: I can specifically remember. It's like, oh, well, that's how 457 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 1: I know what this is. Charles Bronson will teach you 458 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 1: all about life, whether you want to learn it or not. 459 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: I think it was ten past midnight. Um, all right, 460 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 1: sorry about that sidetrack. Where were we? Uh we were 461 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: talking about the origins of gossip. Oh yeah, there's some 462 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 1: Did you read the other article I sent? Um? I 463 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 1: think it was from the Guardian, I can't remember where. 464 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: One of the theories is that I was a BBC 465 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: that hunting and gathering and foraging was a big reason 466 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: gossiping came about because you had to know, you had 467 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 1: to talk about each other, like you know tuk tuk. 468 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: You know, it's not very good at the hunting, but 469 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 1: he's quite the gatherer. So it helps them organize in 470 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:14,439 Speaker 1: the most efficient way to get things done, because how 471 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: is she going to know unless you tell somebody what's 472 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: going on. So that makes sense, No, it is. And again, 473 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 1: if this person, if the if the band is large 474 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,920 Speaker 1: enough for the civilization is large enough that the person 475 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:26,920 Speaker 1: can't keep an eye on tuk tuk all the time, 476 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: that's how that person will gain understanding of tuk tuk's 477 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: abilities for tuck tuck keeping tabs on poor tuktok uh. 478 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 1: And then the other cool thing I thought was the 479 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,400 Speaker 1: uh when we finally learned to harness fire. Uh. This 480 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: hypothesis is during the day, we were out, you know, 481 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 1: trying to stay alive and doing our thing, finding building shelters, 482 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 1: hunting for food, finding water, and at night when we 483 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: finally got fire, well before fire, you would just go 484 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 1: to sleep and rest because it was dark and it's 485 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,879 Speaker 1: weird to sit around the dark. But once they had fire, 486 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 1: people literally from the very beginning started sitting around and 487 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: talking about their day and kind of gossiping about what happened. 488 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: And it's amazing. It's hard to blame anybody if you 489 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: think about it, like, when's the last time you had 490 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: a legitimately interesting conversation about fantastical stuff? They're there are 491 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: few and far between. For the most part. People are 492 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,120 Speaker 1: talking about their day. They're talking about people they work with, 493 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 1: talking about some dude that cut them off in traffic. 494 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: They're talking about their immediate experience. So of course you're 495 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: gonna gossip. It's this if if the definition of gossip 496 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: is talking about people who aren't there every year, right, 497 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 1: everyone gossips you're going to It's a completely natural thing. 498 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 1: And I'm totally unsurprised by the idea that it started 499 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: out at the first campfire, of course, and it still 500 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 1: happens today. Apparently, there are researchers who studied um bushmen 501 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 1: in the Kalahari Desert in Botswana and they say that 502 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: the language and the stories and the things they say 503 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: during the day are completely different than the things they 504 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 1: say at night around the campfire. And they say, there's 505 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 1: really no reason to think this hasn't always been the case. 506 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: That's neat um. So you said that still goes on 507 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: to day, And we were talking about modern studies of gossiping, right, Um. 508 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 1: One of the there was like a series of studies. 509 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 1: I don't know if they were all from the U 510 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: of Toronto or not, but they seemed to be somewhat 511 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: related where it was um. Outside observers could watch people 512 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:28,239 Speaker 1: playing games and they noticed cheaters. So they had this 513 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 1: information about cheaters that the people playing the games didn't 514 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 1: have about the cheaters. And when they were given the 515 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: the chance to let the players know about a cheater, 516 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 1: to send him. I think like a gossip note is 517 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: what they called it. UM. They they would most people 518 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 1: would take them up on the offer and would send 519 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: a note of warning to the person that they were 520 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: playing somebody who was cheating UM, and they, like you said, 521 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: they went from being really upset and up in arms 522 00:29:55,800 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 1: to that release valve being undone and every it was 523 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 1: fine with the world again because that person had been 524 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 1: alerted to cheating through gossiping. So there is such thing 525 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 1: as altruistic gossiping as well. Yeah, with altruism. Tracy had 526 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: another example of let's say there's like a coral group 527 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: and the self appointed leader is really kind of lazy, 528 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 1: and if someone um, then other people are kind of 529 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: making up the slack doing the duties that UM he 530 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: or she should be doing. So when new comes in 531 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 1: the group and they say, hey, listen this this girl, 532 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: Jane is the head of the coral group. But you 533 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: should know don't count on Jane to bring the sheet 534 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: music for you because she never does it. So that's 535 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 1: sort of altruistic in the you're helping someone learn the 536 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 1: rules of your new group, but you're also kind of 537 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 1: talking smack and making yourself superior to Jane, right. And 538 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: then so Tracy adde of this one another thing that 539 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 1: some people would say that the person who's doing that 540 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: is really, like you said, just talking smack and isn't 541 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: really working towards a solution to the actual problem, which 542 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: is Jane being slack at her job. Right. And I wonder, 543 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 1: like that's a really good descriptive of what gossip is. 544 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 1: Like gossip would be talk that's not directed toward any 545 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: kind of solution. It's just talking. You know, like if 546 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 1: you take that same conversation to somebody who can fire 547 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 1: Jane or make her do her job, you would no 548 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: one would consider that gossip because it's directed toward a goal, 549 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 1: towards the solution. So I guess, and that's probably one 550 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: thing that people don't like about gossip. It's it's really 551 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, it's just blowing off steam. 552 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 1: It's not really serving any direct purpose. They all seem 553 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: to be indirect, like socializing people. I did, now I 554 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 1: need an honorary doctor from somewhere. You've got one. Um. 555 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 1: And then lastly, chuck um. One of the other things, 556 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 1: especially from malicious bond Um malicious Um gossip, is that 557 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 1: UM when somebody. It's a very dangerous game, right, when 558 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 1: you're gossiping with somebody, especially you with somebody that you're 559 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: not super tight with, um, you you run the risk 560 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 1: of scaring that person. Because if there's one thing that 561 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 1: people do when they hear gossip, it's they take themselves 562 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: and put themselves in that situation. And one of the 563 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: things that you will immediately think when you're being gossip too, 564 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 1: is well, this person gossips, so they could very easily 565 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: be gossiping about me. How much should I trust this person? 566 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: And that's especially pertinent when it's not already like a 567 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: tight pair, and when the gossip is malicious, you know. 568 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 1: Good point. Yeah, well it's not mine. I'm just relating facts. 569 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 1: You ever see you ever watched that Gossip Girl show? No, 570 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 1: but there's a Twitter handle gossip girl. I'd noticed in 571 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 1: my research, and it's like real right, No, it's like 572 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 1: real gossip. Really Yeah, I've never seen it either, But 573 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 1: that's not real gossip because it's all celebrity gossip, right. 574 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: I think that's a kid's not a kid show show 575 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: for younger people than me. It's for middle aged man. 576 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 1: Although I do like Blake Lively, so well that was 577 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: one other thing too, like when I don't we haven't 578 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: come out and said this. Um, there's a definite perception 579 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: that gossip is much more prevalent among women. Sure that's 580 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: not true. No, No, research shows that men and women 581 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 1: basically across the board equally gossip. It's old white men. Yeah, 582 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 1: it's old white old white men under attack in America. 583 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: You got anything else? Uh? No, sir, being trolley? You 584 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 1: know that? Yeah? Uh. If you want to know more 585 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 1: about gossip, you can type that word in the search 586 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,240 Speaker 1: bar at how stuff works dot com and it will 587 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: bring up this article complete with totally superfluous illustrations that 588 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 1: will baffle the mind. Um, did you see him? Yeah, 589 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 1: it's just weird. I kept looking like did I miss 590 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 1: a story or something that relates to that. It became 591 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 1: a game find the meaning? Uh? And I think I 592 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 1: said search bar, and I think I said how stuff works. 593 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:08,919 Speaker 1: But either way, it's time for listening. Now I'm gonna 594 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: call this Disney Disney band. Hello, Chuck, Josh and Jerry 595 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: and Neil. He really wouldn't Neil the chair, No, Frank 596 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 1: was the chair. I think he means nol probably, So 597 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 1: it's just hilarious. I've been listening for a few months now, 598 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 1: binging episodes like uh, well, I can't see what she says. Um. 599 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 1: I just listened to your part one of Fairy Tales 600 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 1: in the last time on my way to work. The 601 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 1: reason I'm writing is about the original Little Mermaid story. 602 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,920 Speaker 1: When I was growing up, my parents were hardcore Southern Baptist. 603 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,799 Speaker 1: During my childhood, the Southern Baptist Convention did not like 604 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:48,279 Speaker 1: that Disney was friendly towards homosexuals and supported evolution, so 605 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:52,799 Speaker 1: they called on all the churches to boycott Disney. So 606 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,080 Speaker 1: my parents, a good Southern Baptist that they were, took 607 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 1: everything Disney out of our house and we weren't allowed 608 00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 1: to have any Disney clothes or watch the Disney Channel, 609 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,960 Speaker 1: and of course no Disney movies. So when the Disney 610 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 1: version of The Little Mermaid came out in nine I 611 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,920 Speaker 1: was in first grade, all my friends watched it, loved it. 612 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 1: My mom was at a loss. Luckily, Golden Films released 613 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 1: their own version of The Little Mermaid and my mom 614 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,479 Speaker 1: bought it. I watched this many times as a child, 615 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 1: honestly thinking this is the only vision. Didn't learn until 616 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 1: a few years later when I saw the original at 617 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,840 Speaker 1: her friend's house. Um, boy, I bet she felt like 618 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:31,279 Speaker 1: watching The Little Mermaid. It's in color. Uh. This version 619 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 1: I saw followed the original story by Hans Christian Anderson, 620 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,319 Speaker 1: complete with a terrifying sea witch and the suicide at 621 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 1: the end, which was a great movie for a first grader, 622 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 1: the sea which started my nightmares. That's about the time 623 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,400 Speaker 1: that I started smoking cigarette. So thanks for all the 624 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,760 Speaker 1: great side tracking as well as the amazing content you provide. 625 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,760 Speaker 1: And that is from Lindsay. Well, thanks a lot, Lindsay 626 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 1: appreciate that. I'm glad you finally got to see The 627 00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 1: Little Mermaid. I like that she thanked us for side tracking. 628 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 1: Some people do. Sure, it's pretty infrequent people are like 629 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:07,960 Speaker 1: to you on point, and when they do, I'm like, buddy, 630 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,319 Speaker 1: you have a long archive to go through. If that 631 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,479 Speaker 1: bothers you, We've got There's a lot of good sidetracks today. 632 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:18,280 Speaker 1: And it was ten past midnight, by the way. Nice um. 633 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,120 Speaker 1: If you want to get in touch with this, you 634 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,320 Speaker 1: can tweet to us at s Y s K Podcasts. 635 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 1: You can join us on Facebook dot com slash stuff 636 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 1: you should know. You can send us an email to 637 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,920 Speaker 1: Stuff Podcast at how Stuff Works dot com and Chuck 638 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:32,919 Speaker 1: as always join us at at home on the web 639 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:42,240 Speaker 1: Stuck Chuck, Stuff you Should Know Chuck dot Com. Stuff 640 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,800 Speaker 1: you Should Know is a production of iHeart Radio. For 641 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,879 Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 642 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.