1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: I am thrilled to introduce Ryan Grimm in celebration of 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: his book The Squad, AOC and the Hope of a 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: Political Revolution refer to him formally as the Squad, led 4 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: by Alexandria Ocazio Cortes. The group laid down a marker 5 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: for an aggressive left wing agenda. Grim takes you behind 6 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: the scenes as that new energy makes impact with Washington, 7 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:24,240 Speaker 1: and the Squad spends as much time fending off assaults 8 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 1: from Donald Trump, who regularly singled them out and led 9 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: chance of send them back at rallies as they did 10 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:35,239 Speaker 1: battling their own parties sclerotic leadership. As they've grown in office, 11 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 1: they've had to contend with the eternal question that confronts 12 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: outsiders whose power their way into the inside. Are they 13 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 1: still radical organizers, willing and able to lead a political revolution? 14 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: Ryan Grimm is the Intercept's DC bureau chief and the 15 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: co host of Counterpoints. He was previously the Washington bureau 16 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: chief for huff Post, where he led a team that 17 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: won a Pulitzer Prize. He's the author of the book 18 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: We've Got People from Jesse Jackson to Alexandria Ocasio Cortes 19 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: and the End end of big money and the rise 20 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: of a movement, and this is your country on drugs, 21 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 1: The Secret History of Getting High in America. Grim will 22 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: be joined in conversation with Crystal Ball, an American political 23 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 1: commentator and co host of Breaking Points. She was previously 24 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: a political candidate as well as a television host on MSNBC. Now, 25 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: enough of my voice, please join me in welcoming Grim 26 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:31,839 Speaker 1: and Ball to the stage. 27 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,759 Speaker 2: Ran I think those two excerpts were a perfect way 28 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 2: to jump off this conversation because you start with the 29 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:42,320 Speaker 2: sort of beginning of AOC's political arc, which you track 30 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 2: with incredible insider reporting throughout the book, and also a 31 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 2: recurring nemesis, you might say, Josh Gottthheimer, and also the 32 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 2: influence of APAK and some of the affiliated groups. So 33 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 2: it's a great place to start. Thank you so much 34 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 2: for letting me be involved in this conversation. Congratulations on 35 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 2: the book, which is fantastic, which I read cover to cover, 36 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 2: and I encourage all of you all to do as well. 37 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 2: I actually thought a good place to start was one 38 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:09,079 Speaker 2: of the questions that we got from you all, sort 39 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 2: of a philosophical question about the book itself, which is 40 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 2: is the squad, a brand or a moment. Is it 41 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 2: something that can be nurtured and cultivated or is it 42 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 2: more of a progressive click? In other words, what even 43 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 2: is the squad? 44 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 3: So I think I think the context for that The 45 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 3: answer would be that I think all we have now 46 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 3: are moments in the sense that we have these bursts 47 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 3: of activity that has its own life in the real world, 48 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 3: and then it has a second life kind of on 49 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 3: social media, which then shapes it back in the real 50 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 3: world and then also shapes how people understand it that 51 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 3: goes back. We could start with like Occupy Wall Street was. 52 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 3: It was a moment, but it was also something that 53 00:02:56,240 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 3: changed everything that came after it. The Occupy moment is over. 54 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 3: But and as I write about in the book, you 55 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 3: probably don't get Bernie Sanders without the Occupy moment. But 56 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 3: you also wouldn't have either of them if the material 57 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 3: conditions were not there to like ripen both of those 58 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 3: ripe in both of those things. And so black lives 59 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 3: matter again the moment, but the moments that we live 60 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:25,519 Speaker 3: in after that are shaped by that moment. So I 61 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 3: think on a political electoral scale, they are a moment. 62 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 3: It was a you know, the arc of the book 63 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 3: is kind of like mid twenty fifteen's Bernie Sanders launching 64 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:40,119 Speaker 3: his campaign up through the twenty twenty two midterms, and 65 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 3: that's kind of the moment. I think you could kind 66 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 3: of see it kind of cresting in twenty twenty and breaking, 67 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 3: and then after that moment, something new is born from 68 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 3: it that is different for it having happened. Ilan Omar 69 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 3: told me as I was reporting this book, She's like, 70 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 3: you know, there is no such thing as the Squad. 71 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 3: I know that, but also there is. So there's no 72 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 3: there's no regular meetings, there's there's no kind of criteria 73 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 3: for membership. There was a really if people remember the 74 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 3: Onion article from twenty nineteen I forget, which like eighty 75 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 3: five year old New Jersey lawmaker the Onion said was 76 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 3: like appealing for membership in the Squad, and they then 77 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 3: jokingly said you're in, You're in. Sure, you're in. But 78 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 3: it then becomes a so it' as ilin Omars put 79 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 3: it was, it's a media creation, and it was created 80 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 3: by an Instagram caption, like AOC posted a picture of 81 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,359 Speaker 3: the four of them and just wrote squad in the caption, 82 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 3: and it took off. From there, So that's that's where 83 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:50,720 Speaker 3: it comes from. So it is a media creation. It's 84 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 3: also a creation of the political moment. But then as 85 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 3: its adversaries identify it, they forge it into a thing, 86 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 3: and so now it's a thing, whether it wants to 87 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 3: be a thing or not. 88 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,720 Speaker 2: Interesting. I mean a lot of the book there's there's 89 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:09,039 Speaker 2: several different narratives that are running, but one of them 90 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 2: is this journey of AOC from what she thinks she 91 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,160 Speaker 2: is and what people project on her going in and 92 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:20,600 Speaker 2: then faced with both the reality of the job and 93 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 2: also the reality of some of her own sort of 94 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 2: personality traits. So talk about, you know, how she views 95 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 2: the job in that moment where you were just reading 96 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 2: the book, where she's occupying Speaker Pelosi's office and she's 97 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 2: there with the activist, et cetera, to the moment where 98 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 2: we find her now more focused on building relationships and 99 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:43,840 Speaker 2: trying to play the sort of more traditional political inside game. 100 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 3: And what I like about that moment where they where 101 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,720 Speaker 3: she occupies the office and later in that in that excerpt, 102 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 3: I quote from her from her actual speech while she's 103 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 3: in the office, because I think it epitomizes everything so perfectly. 104 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 3: Her whole speech while she's there is about how great 105 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 3: Nancy Pelosi is and how much all of the climate 106 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 3: activists are there to support Nancy Pelosi in her kind 107 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 3: of pursuit of her climate agenda. So she really does 108 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 3: want to be there, potentially even getting arrested occupying her office, 109 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 3: but also as the person they're supporting her, and part 110 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 3: of her really like it's genuine Like I contrasted a 111 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 3: little bit with Obama, who kind of people wanted to 112 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:35,359 Speaker 3: be able to put whatever they wanted onto Obama, Whereas 113 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 3: I think AOC genuinely feels like she can do that, 114 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:44,359 Speaker 3: Like she wants to lead a political revolution by just 115 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 3: persuading everyone that it's the right thing to do. It's 116 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 3: like she just she's like, well, of course, Nancy Pelosi 117 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 3: has been for climate, for a strong climate agenda for decades. 118 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 3: All we're doing is supporting her here. But at the 119 00:06:57,839 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 3: same time, she also knows like she also doesn't want 120 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 3: me occupying her office, So this is so there's this 121 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 3: there's this tension throughout and she talks about and her 122 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 3: staffers will also talk about how there was a kind 123 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 3: of marriage of convenience that kind of that you couldn't 124 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 3: see from the outside. And both she and some of 125 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 3: the people from Just Democrats used that kind of same 126 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 3: phrase that like, in order to become a member of Congress, 127 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 3: like she couldn't just our system is not set up 128 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 3: where Bartender can just win without any help from anybody else. 129 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 3: And so there was this organization at Justice Democrat. And 130 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 3: also nobody else could challenge Joe Crowley, like nobody within 131 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 3: New York politics could challenge Joe Crowley. And this is 132 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 3: a point that she would make because if they tried, 133 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 3: their career would absolutely be over. Like that's that's what 134 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 3: it means to have a machine. So it had to 135 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 3: be someone from outside machine. 136 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 2: But if you're here, didn't have a career, had to 137 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 2: be someone who had nothing to lose. 138 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 3: To lose absolutely, And this organization Justice Democrats had launched. 139 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 3: Kyle Kolinski actually helped launch them. 140 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 2: I was aware of that. 141 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 3: They flew out of They out and grew out of 142 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 3: brand new Congress, which had tried to elect four hundred 143 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 3: and thirty five kind of populist to Congress. That was 144 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 3: their goal. By the end of the year, they realize 145 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 3: they're on the brink of electing zero and In the meantime, 146 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 3: they had split into Justice Democrats, which worked on the 147 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 3: Democratic side, and brand new Congress was stuck with the 148 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 3: original thing of doing candidates in every primary note regardless 149 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 3: of the party, and so when they realized that they 150 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 3: might get zero, they then put all their resources into AOC. 151 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 3: So when she then wins, the people that she knows 152 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 3: are the people that supported her. She can't she beat 153 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 3: Joe Crowley. Going to work for her at that point 154 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 3: in the Democratic Party would have been career suicide, and 155 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 3: so it was very hard for her to find people 156 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,839 Speaker 3: from inside the party so that brings them together and 157 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 3: create But from the outside it looked like it was 158 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:06,559 Speaker 3: this kind of revolutionary vanguard that had been well organized 159 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 3: and kind of powered its way through, when in fact 160 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 3: the four members didn't really know each other right and 161 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 3: were there just kind of it was a coincidence that 162 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 3: they all arrived on the same themes at the same time, 163 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 3: and then they're expected to work together as this media 164 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 3: creation and then immediately their hit starting in January with 165 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 3: the constant question are you anti Semitic for not kind 166 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 3: of kind of condemning ilhan Omar or for the Benjamin situation, 167 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 3: and all like the first six months just consumed by 168 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,719 Speaker 3: attacks from APAK and its allied organizations. 169 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 2: I want to pick up more on that piece in 170 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 2: a moment, because one of the things that you and 171 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 2: I have talked about is how much that theme runs 172 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 2: through the book and how influential those organizations and the 173 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 2: funding of those organizations and the funding of in primaries 174 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 2: ended up shaping, you know, the Democratic Caucus and their 175 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 2: response to what's happening right now in Gaza. So I 176 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 2: want to come back to that. But I thought this 177 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 2: was a really good question as well. That gets to 178 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 2: some of the heart of the critique that the left 179 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 2: has had of the squad. The question here is why 180 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 2: haven't the progressives hijacked the Democratic Party in the manner 181 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 2: of the Freedom Caucus, especially considering the comparably slim majorities 182 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 2: of the one hundred and seventeenth one hundred and eighteenth Congresses, 183 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 2: asked Jonathan. 184 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:30,959 Speaker 3: So partly you have to think about well, partly, Democrats 185 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 3: are just different, and they're always going to be different. 186 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 3: Like when you tell if you tell the Freedom Caucus, look, 187 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 3: if you don't support this thing, the government's going to 188 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 3: shut down, or if you don't support this thing, we're 189 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 3: going to have a global financial crisis and we're going 190 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 3: to default on the debt. Their claim of being okay 191 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 3: with that is quite credible, like, all right, fine, go ahead, 192 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 3: do it without me. Then. So Democrats have always had 193 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 3: that had some of that problem because they you can 194 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 3: always come back and say, well, all right, here, we're 195 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 3: giving you this, and it's so easy to whittle them away. 196 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 3: So that's the kind of that's one that's one structural 197 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 3: problem that they have. But then just if you think 198 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 3: about the timing when they came in Donald Trump as president, 199 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 3: and so they it's not as if they're going to 200 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 3: kind of hold up legislation and get a Democratic president 201 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 3: to sign it into office. That only that only comes later. 202 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 3: And so their first six months they're really in this 203 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 3: kind of two front war, one with with Apak, which 204 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,319 Speaker 3: is keeping them on their heels and kind of making 205 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 3: it harder for them to kind of organize a kind 206 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 3: of offensive, forward thinking strategy because it's just every single 207 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 3: week it's just they're playing playing defense. But then also 208 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:52,079 Speaker 3: this constant battle with with Nancy Pelosi, which is which 209 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:54,839 Speaker 3: breaks out into the press and ultimately ends with a 210 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 3: couple of the staffers being pushed out of the office 211 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 3: and things really shifting around. So then soon after that 212 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 3: the presidential campaign picks up. And so at that point 213 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:15,079 Speaker 3: the squad three of whom endorse Bernie Sanders. Iona Presley 214 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 3: with her eye on Massachusetts politics and a potential Senate seat. 215 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 3: She's like, oh, Elizabeth Warren getting a nomination a Senate 216 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 3: seat opening up. Yes, I endorsed the LILI form. So 217 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 3: three of them endorse Bernie Sanders, and they really believe 218 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:33,439 Speaker 3: that he can win the nomination. He comes within hair's 219 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 3: breath of winning that nomination. Democratic primary voters are much 220 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 3: more affectionate toward the Democratic Party than Republican primary voters are, Like, 221 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:48,839 Speaker 3: if you watch Republican primary ads, they're all kind of 222 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 3: running against the Republican Party. Like, to them, the Republican 223 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 3: Party is just as bad as the other elites. And 224 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 3: whereas the Democratic Party. If you're considered not a good 225 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 3: democh like happened to Nina Turner and her special election, 226 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 3: then a lot of kind of normal Democratic primary voters 227 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,679 Speaker 3: are going to reject you. So Bernie Sanders running as 228 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 3: an independent Democratic socialists who caucus with Democrats had that 229 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,439 Speaker 3: uphill climb and so you had he and the squad 230 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 3: constantly trying to assure Democratic primary voters like, we're not 231 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 3: radical like and you know, he gave that speech, I'm 232 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:28,959 Speaker 3: just running on the legacy of FDR. And so if 233 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 3: you're trying to convince the Democratic Party that you're you're 234 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 3: good Democrats, you're just a lot more kind of democratic socialists, 235 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 3: and you just want kind of higher minium wage, you 236 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 3: want Medicare for all, you want a Green New Deal, 237 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 3: but you're you're a Democrat, then that makes it harder 238 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 3: at that point, and that's where you hear some of 239 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 3: the stuff that she'll get criticized for. She when she said, uh, 240 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,560 Speaker 3: I think she called Pelosi Mama Bear at one point. 241 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 3: People have never forgiven her for that. That was while 242 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 3: Bernie was well, it looked like Bernie might win the nomination, 243 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 3: and she's trying to win the kind of noormy Democrats 244 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 3: over into the camp to say no, no, no, we're 245 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 3: the water's fine, we're not threatening, we're not dangerous. And 246 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 3: then of course he within within three days there's that 247 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:18,079 Speaker 3: massive turnaround and it all all collapses. So then twenty 248 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 3: twenty one becomes their opportunity and they did then, and 249 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 3: I have some interesting examples of it in the book, 250 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 3: particularly around the American Rescue Plan. They there was so 251 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 3: much outside pressure and anger about particularly the fifteen dollars 252 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 3: minimum wage not being kept in the legislation that when 253 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 3: Mansion came back and tried to pull a lot of 254 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 3: the unemployment benefits out, Schumer went over to the House 255 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 3: and said, look, Mansion's not with us unless we do 256 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 3: these massive cuts to unemployment benefits. And Primila Giapaulic, Congressional 257 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 3: Progressive Caucus Chair, was able to tell Schumer, if he 258 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 3: does that, it's like, you know, I'm fine with it. 259 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 3: You know, I mean, I'm not fine with it, but 260 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 3: you know, don't worry about me. I'm still with with you. 261 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 3: But you're going to lose the squad and it's going 262 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 3: to go down. And because there was so much outside 263 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 3: pressure and anger, that was a credible threat, and Mansion 264 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 3: caved on it and this and hundreds of billions and 265 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 3: unemployment benefits went through. So there were moments where it 266 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 3: could happen, but it was but it was never done 267 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 3: in a way that kind of made kind of the 268 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 3: outside folks happen because they still didn't get the fifteen 269 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 3: dollars minum wage. So from the outside you were still 270 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 3: like frustrated about it. 271 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 2: What does AOC think of these critiques, That's. 272 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 3: A that's a good question. I mean, she's answered some 273 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 3: of them in some interviews. I think she thinks a 274 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 3: lot of them are unfair, that a lot of them 275 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 3: are people who are making kind of bad faith arguments 276 00:15:56,160 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 3: kind of to feed algorithms and like get for clicks basically, 277 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 3: And I think she I think she thinks some people 278 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 3: just don't kind of understand like what she's dealing with 279 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 3: on the inside, what it's like to be an inside, 280 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 3: inside legislator. But I think also I think she thinks 281 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 3: some of it is fair that and but there also 282 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 3: is there's no coordinating mechanism, and she has talked about 283 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 3: this as well. That say, back in the nineteen sixties, 284 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 3: you had major mass organizations that had steering committees that 285 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 3: were in contact with each other, that were setting ambitious 286 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 3: strategies and tactics and then executing them and had the 287 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 3: manpower to do it. You know, they had the grassroots 288 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 3: kind of mobilization to do it. That doesn't exist now, 289 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 3: Like what has replaced that is basically Twitter and Twitter 290 00:16:55,440 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 3: is reactive, so Twitter usually can give feedback to legislators 291 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 3: after it's too. 292 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 2: Late, right after they've done something that people are unhappy about. 293 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, and didn't and wouldn't have known. Why why did 294 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 3: you do this thing? Now at that point it's too late. Yeah, gotcha. 295 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,199 Speaker 2: We got a couple questions in this regard. But you know, 296 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 2: you track how AOC she gets elected. She's instantly I 297 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,399 Speaker 2: remember watching she was then on Morning Joe and suddenly 298 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 2: everyone's like, oh my god, who is this person? And 299 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,359 Speaker 2: she's instant media star and getting you know, all of 300 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:32,919 Speaker 2: these this interest in social media followers and mainstream press 301 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 2: really excited about it, and she's kind of knocking it 302 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,479 Speaker 2: out of the park. Interview after interview, and then she 303 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 2: sits down for one interview and gets asked about Israel 304 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 2: and Palestine, And that's your jumping off point to talk 305 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:49,919 Speaker 2: about the way that that conflict has both been a 306 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,360 Speaker 2: difficulty a challenge for members of the Squad and sort 307 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:57,919 Speaker 2: of the Squad adjacent members as well, but also how strangely, 308 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 2: because there was so much organization on the other side 309 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:06,200 Speaker 2: trying to enforce unanimity on the topic, it actually strengthened 310 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 2: their spine in terms of their position. Talk about a 311 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 2: little bit about that, starting with that moment with AOC, 312 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:11,119 Speaker 2: which is incredible. 313 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's so it's it started really with the 314 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 3: Great March of Return, which people have a lot of 315 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 3: people missed it happening in real time, but now with 316 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 3: the war going on currently, people have looked back and said, oh, 317 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,919 Speaker 3: that that that wasn't that was an interesting development. If 318 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 3: you don't know what the Great March Return was. That 319 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:38,159 Speaker 3: was a civil society led initiative in Gaza that kind 320 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 3: of came from the grassroots where people would say, every Friday, 321 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 3: we're going to go near the fence and we're gonna 322 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 3: we're gonna picnic. It's gonna be a joyous thing. And 323 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 3: then we're gonna march non violently to the to the 324 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 3: fence and we just do this every Friday, just and 325 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 3: we're gonna look out at the places where our parents 326 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 3: and grandparents used to live. This will be a fun 327 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:06,359 Speaker 3: community event, but also symbolic of our our hope that 328 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,159 Speaker 3: one day there will be peace and we can return. 329 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 3: And the Israeli troops started shooting and every so every 330 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,400 Speaker 3: Friday they'd started shooting, and it became this uh kind 331 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 3: of infamous thing since then where eventually they started shooting, 332 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:24,399 Speaker 3: they started aiming for legs, and so it created then 333 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:26,919 Speaker 3: they shot out so many people's legs that in Gaza, 334 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 3: you'd have it just became a very regular thing to 335 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 3: see people going around with, you know, missing one or 336 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 3: both legs. Of the number, the un has the numbers, 337 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 3: but they're they're astronomical. And so after one of these 338 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,879 Speaker 3: mass shootings, I sixty people were killed and these are 339 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 3: non violent. You know, there's some stone throwing and but 340 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 3: you know, generally there's there's not kind of Hamas led actions. 341 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 3: Hamas eventually reluctantly supported them, but they had but there 342 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:00,439 Speaker 3: was nothing armed about them. And so AOC spoted on 343 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:05,359 Speaker 3: Twitter saying, it's appalling that sixty non violent protesters were 344 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 3: killed in this Gaza demonstration, and it's appalling that there's 345 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,160 Speaker 3: so much silence from so many here in New York 346 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 3: City about that. And that created a lot of interest 347 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 3: in this congressional candidate from the Bronx and from Queens 348 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,119 Speaker 3: who's standing up for the rights of Palestinian because it 349 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:26,199 Speaker 3: was so unusual, and so she then gets asked about 350 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 3: that question on this in this interview, and she's been 351 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 3: nailing kind of interview after interview, and it initially it 352 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 3: seemed like the biggest event that the night that she 353 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 3: won her primary was Joe Crowley losing. It very quickly 354 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 3: became clear after as she was nailing all these interviews 355 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 3: that the biggest event was actually her winning, and that 356 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 3: Joe Crowley would be somebody who was like a trivia 357 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,679 Speaker 3: question a couple of years later, did anybody know what 358 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:55,439 Speaker 3: he's doing? He's a lot lobbyist, right, he had to 359 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 3: be Yes, he's a lobbyist. And so she's so she's 360 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 3: doing great, all of these interesting and then she gets 361 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:07,439 Speaker 3: hit with this question and Margaret Carlson says, you use 362 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,679 Speaker 3: the word Palestine, what do you mean by that? And 363 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:13,160 Speaker 3: you can see her whole demeanor change where she's sort 364 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,360 Speaker 3: of like, I know that there are third rails everywhere 365 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 3: on this issue, and I might have touched one a night, 366 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,880 Speaker 3: but I don't know if I did or not. And 367 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 3: she sort of tries to explain, she's just saying that 368 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 3: she sees it if sixty people were killed at a 369 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 3: protest in Puerto Rico, or sixty people were killed at 370 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 3: protest in Ferguson, I would stand up for that, and 371 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 3: so I stand up for it when it happens in 372 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 3: Gaza as well. And she's like, yes, but you use 373 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 3: the word occupation. What do you mean by that? And 374 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 3: again you see like, oh God, what's happening here. It's 375 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 3: finally she says, look, I'm not a geopolitical expert. This 376 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 3: wasn't something that we talked about a lot at my 377 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 3: Bronx dinner table growing up, which Summer Lead later told 378 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 3: me this same thing just growing up in Pittsburgh. It's 379 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 3: that's not an issue that you're steeped you're steeped in 380 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 3: if you're growing up in the African American community in Pittsburgh. 381 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 3: And so she just at that point they kind of 382 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 3: pull her off the trail and she realized, I need 383 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 3: to start need to learn more about this, because clearly 384 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 3: this is going to be a very big issue. And 385 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 3: I think once you once you're kind of pressed to 386 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:31,359 Speaker 3: look into the history and to look into the reality, 387 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 3: you're probably going to get pushed in the direction of 388 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:38,679 Speaker 3: saying that this this is wrong. Jamal Bowman did an 389 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 3: interesting interview recently kind of who became one of the 390 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 3: you know, either the fifth or sixth squad member who 391 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 3: talked about his experience of visiting the West Bank and bizarrely, 392 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,439 Speaker 3: there are people who on the left who are angry 393 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,880 Speaker 3: that he even took that trip, But everybody who takes 394 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 3: that trip and sees the West Bank in person kind 395 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 3: of comes back changed because there are streets that you 396 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 3: can't walk down if you're Palestinian. There are there are 397 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 3: front doors of Palestinian homes that are like sealed shut, 398 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 3: like they have to go out their back door, only 399 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 3: like they can't go out through this street. Different so 400 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 3: you know, different streets are blocked off for people with 401 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 3: different license plates. And you and you see this up 402 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 3: front of you, like this is this is wrong? It 403 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,639 Speaker 3: just it just feel it just feels wrong. And so 404 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 3: I think that over the years as they've learned more 405 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 3: about the issue. Now obviously Omar until he didn't need 406 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 3: that education, but also as they as they realize that 407 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 3: this is this is going to be much bigger than 408 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 3: I thought it was, like one of the Kyle Kyle 409 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 3: would vouch for this too well. Will Lead Scheids, who 410 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:52,120 Speaker 3: also helped launch Justice Democrats, said he always gets asked, 411 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 3: why do you guys focus on Israel Palestine so much. 412 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,640 Speaker 3: He's like, we don't We're just always getting hit on it, 413 00:23:58,440 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 3: so we have to respond. 414 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 2: So one of the questions that we got from the 415 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,719 Speaker 2: audience was, in your opinion, what is the reason that 416 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,880 Speaker 2: the Israel lobbying infrastructure has been so successful at enforcing 417 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,439 Speaker 2: narrative discipline? And I might add as a corollary, what 418 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:14,680 Speaker 2: happened to John Fetterman? 419 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So the John Fetterman story is in the book. 420 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 3: It's part of and this is kind of an answer 421 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 3: to the question. So in twenty nineteen, in direct response 422 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 3: to Omar Untilib getting sworn in, the group Democratic Majority 423 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 3: for Israel gets founded, and they're pretty explicit that that 424 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 3: was the thing that they were founded to push back against. 425 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 3: The first money they spent was later that year against 426 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 3: Bernie Sanders in the presidential campaign. That was their kind 427 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 3: of foray into it. Their first huge effort was trying 428 00:24:56,119 --> 00:25:00,879 Speaker 3: to stop Jamal Bowman from unseating the head of the 429 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 3: Foreign Affairs Committee, Elliott Angel, one of the most tawkish, 430 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:10,199 Speaker 3: unapologetic defenders of Israel in Congress, and the idea that 431 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 3: he could that he could be beaten by a former 432 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,920 Speaker 3: principle nobody backed by Justice Democrats was unthinkable, and so 433 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 3: DMFI spent two million dollars plus in this primary, but 434 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 3: he still ended up losing, even lost in heavily Jewish precincts, 435 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 3: and so it ended up being a blowout, something like 436 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 3: something like fifteen points. And in the wake of that, DMFI, 437 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,679 Speaker 3: which was kind of an offshoot of a pack and APAC, realized, okay, 438 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 3: we need to this. Two million dollars is not going 439 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,160 Speaker 3: to cut it, Like, we need to come in here 440 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,919 Speaker 3: with some serious money. And so in the next cycle, 441 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,440 Speaker 3: the twenty twenty two cycle, DMFI again came up with 442 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 3: something like ten million dollars so to spend. Some affiliated 443 00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,400 Speaker 3: groups came up with another couple of million, but a PAC 444 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 3: launched its own own super pac, which was new in 445 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,360 Speaker 3: its history. It had always been purely a brick grassroots 446 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 3: organization with chapters and sub chapters all over the country, 447 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:13,440 Speaker 3: and they launched the United Democracy Projects superPAC, which they 448 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 3: put more than thirty million dollars into and put almost 449 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 3: every penny of it into democratic primaries trying to knock 450 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:27,159 Speaker 3: out progressive incumbents or to stop progressive challengers from winning primaries. 451 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 3: And that's just an absolutely enormous amount of money. Like 452 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 3: the organization j Street, which was set up to be 453 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 3: a counter to APAK, told me that they had seen 454 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 3: what happened in twenty twenty, and so then they organized 455 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 3: their own super pac to try to defend progressive candidates 456 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,159 Speaker 3: who they felt were strong on Israel. That they felt 457 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,919 Speaker 3: the argument that APAC is pro Israel as a misnomer, 458 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 3: that Apak is actually leading Israel in a direction that's 459 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,199 Speaker 3: not only going to be harmful for the Palestinians but 460 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 3: also for Israel. And so Jay Street was able to 461 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,680 Speaker 3: raise about two million dollars, so they thought the MFI 462 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,640 Speaker 3: will have ten million, will have two million. The mfi's 463 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 3: positions are extremely unpopular and so they have to spend 464 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 3: much more money in primaries to overcome that. So at 465 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,679 Speaker 3: a five to one disadvantage, we can, you know, we 466 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,359 Speaker 3: can hold we can hold our own. Then when APAC 467 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,680 Speaker 3: comes in with thirty or forty million, they're just able 468 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 3: to annihilate people. They spent There may be some former 469 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 3: constituents of Donna Edwards here. They spent I think seven 470 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 3: million dollars to make sure that Donna Edwards did not 471 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,119 Speaker 3: get back into Congress. Like a third. She's like a 472 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 3: thirty point lead. Popular former Democrat. She had voted. They 473 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,359 Speaker 3: didn't like a particular vote she took in two thousand 474 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,679 Speaker 3: and eight on the war in Gaza. Wow and wow, 475 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:52,360 Speaker 3: seven million dollars later she was she was beaten Nita Alam, 476 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 3: who was her her good friends. I don't know if 477 00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 3: people remember. There was this horrific and became a national story, 478 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 3: a hate crime in Chapel Hill, Durham, that area where 479 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,160 Speaker 3: three Muslim students were killed and she was good friends 480 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:19,159 Speaker 3: with them. She became the first Muslim county commissioner in Durham. 481 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,920 Speaker 3: She was running for Congress and was expected to win. 482 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 3: It was popular with a lot of the Democratic voters 483 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 3: in there. They spent something like five or six million 484 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 3: like to stop her from winning. Candidates around the country 485 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:37,200 Speaker 3: started seeing this, and so there would be consultant calls. 486 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 3: They'd say, Okay, how do we stop this money from 487 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 3: coming in? We can't raise enough to compete against it, 488 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 3: but how do we stop it? Say? Well, one direct 489 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 3: way to stop it is just to ask them how 490 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 3: we can stop it. And so that's what Fetterman did. 491 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 3: So Fetterman's campaign reached out to DMFI. At the time, 492 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 3: Fetterman was running against a concern vative Democrat named Connor Lamb, 493 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 3: who was his campaign was openly sending out memos saying, 494 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 3: if we get super PAC support, here is how we 495 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 3: can beat John Fetterman. If we do not get super 496 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 3: PAC support, we will lose and Democrats are going to 497 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 3: lose this seat and it's going to be a disaster. 498 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 3: Like they were very explicitly making this point, going on 499 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 3: TV and circulating the memos to the meeting. We need 500 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 3: super PAC money. We can't beat him without super PAC money. 501 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 3: And the super Pac money they're talking about is DMFI 502 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 3: for the most part, and Mainstream Democrats, which is a 503 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 3: Mainstream Democrats pact is allied funded by Reid Hoffen, but 504 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 3: allied with DMFI. So they go directly to the MFI 505 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 3: and say what does our Israel Palace dine position need 506 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 3: to be basically, and Mark Melman, the head of DMFI 507 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 3: later told later said on the record that the meeting 508 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 3: went very well that Fetterman's staff then sent over their 509 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 3: Israel Palace time platform. It was pretty good, not quite there, 510 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 3: so they d some edits, kicked it back to the 511 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 3: campaign campaign checked said this is good posted it. This 512 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 3: is our position, and Connor lamb out of luck, We're 513 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 3: not gonna We're not going to support you because this 514 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:13,960 Speaker 3: guy's this guy's good enough. And you saw that happen 515 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 3: in a lot of different races that candidates who hoped 516 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 3: they were going to get a pack support to beat 517 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 3: a progressive didn't because the progressive was able to persuade 518 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 3: APAC and DMFI that they were that they had sufficiently 519 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 3: switched their position on the issue. 520 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 2: Wow. And you also have the story of Summer Lee 521 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 2: who had sent out some pretty mild tweets but knew 522 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 2: she was going to be a target and just sort 523 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 2: of accepted it and was able narrowly to still win 524 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 2: her race. You know, there were two reports of candidates 525 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 2: who are running right now in the Democratic primary for 526 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 2: Senate in Michigan, both of whom were reportedly, according to them, 527 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 2: offered twenty million dollars to drop out of the Senate 528 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 2: race to prime I'm marry Rashida to leab. I mean, 529 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 2: that's like as naked as it gets, a donor calling 530 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 2: you up. This is not even legal, by the way 531 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 2: to do, but a donor call you up and saying, hey, 532 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 2: I'll give you twenty million dollars in your primary campaign 533 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 2: against Rashida to leave if you drop out here based 534 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 2: on your reporting and your knowledge of how all of 535 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 2: this has gone down in the past, I mean you 536 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 2: surprised by just the brazen nature of. 537 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 3: That, not really, because it has taken Citizens United some 538 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:34,600 Speaker 3: time to kind of blossom into what it really could 539 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 3: become and what people could see that it could become 540 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 3: from the beginning, which is just the floodgates completely open 541 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 3: the first the first cycle twenty twelve, there were a 542 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 3: couple Senate candidates that got involved with super packs, but 543 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 3: very few. It only started drifting into house races a 544 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 3: couple cycles after that. But twenty twenty two, an apax 545 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 3: spending of the thirty plus million dollars kind of really 546 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 3: really changed, I think the calculation because that is, on 547 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 3: the one hand, so much money that it can reshape 548 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 3: how the party positions itself on Israel Palestine, it can 549 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 3: purge like an entire faction of critics from the party, 550 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 3: but it's also not much money, Like there is a 551 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 3: small number of donors the super Pac. Now there's you know, 552 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 3: a lot of apax money is dark money that goes 553 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 3: for kind of general operations, but the super Pac money 554 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 3: is public and you can see this person gave five million, 555 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 3: this person gave one million, this person gave one million, 556 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 3: and then you'll see like on a single day and 557 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 3: you can look at the FEC reports on it, on 558 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 3: a single day, thirty different people gave one hundred thousands. 559 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 3: You're like, oh, must have been a nice fundraiser somewhere. 560 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 3: And so it only takes a few people spending a 561 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 3: small amount of money to them, right, like they it's 562 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 3: an a rounding error to them. And once you can 563 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 3: see you can have an impact, then you're like, oh, well, 564 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 3: let's let's do this again. And I think they one 565 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 3: miss kind of mistake they feel like they made is 566 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 3: they did not spend heavily against Ilhan Omar, like they 567 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 3: felt like she was comfortably ahead in the race and 568 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 3: that it was going to be a waste of money, 569 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 3: and also that she in this I get into this 570 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 3: in the book she and Pelosi had a very close relationship, 571 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,479 Speaker 3: which might surprise a lot of people, and so they 572 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 3: would have been going against Pelosi to go after Omar. 573 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 3: She ended up only winning by a couple points, and 574 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 3: so now she's facing the same person, and I don't 575 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 3: think they'll they'll make that mistake again, like they're gonna, 576 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 3: I think, to leave and we can get into we 577 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:50,239 Speaker 3: could go race by race, but they they feel like 578 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 3: there's enough shot at winning and it's a it's cheap 579 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 3: enough that why not. 580 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,719 Speaker 2: That they may as well? Do you give it their 581 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 2: One of the questions we got from the audience is 582 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 2: with the Squad members vocally calling for a ceasefire and 583 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 2: really leading the charge on that and challenging Democratic leadership, 584 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 2: does this prove the electing progressives inside the Democratic Party 585 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 2: is not a fool's Errand I don't have to tell 586 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:15,840 Speaker 2: you that. You know, there's a lot of progressive and 587 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 2: lefty disenchantment with electoral politics, disappointments with the Squad's unwillingness 588 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:26,520 Speaker 2: and inability at times to challenge Democratic leadership directly. I 589 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,360 Speaker 2: have never seen them be as forceful in critique of 590 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,319 Speaker 2: Democratic leadership and especially President Biden as they have been 591 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 2: in this moment with Israel's you know, all out war 592 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 2: being waged on Gaza. So what do you think of 593 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 2: this person's question? Do you think it proves that this 594 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 2: was worthwhile? And what are some of the factors that 595 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,360 Speaker 2: led them to be so strong on this particular issue. 596 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 3: So the structure that makes it, that made it so 597 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 3: difficult for so many years for progressives to get into 598 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 3: office was just the lack of resources. And Bernie Sander 599 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 3: well Elizabeth Warren kind of in her twenty twelve Senate 600 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 3: campaign burnt you can read my last book for this, 601 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,439 Speaker 3: and Howard Dean with his first presidential campaign really kind 602 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 3: of bringing small donors into the game. Obama kind of 603 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:16,800 Speaker 3: showing that you can do it on a national scale 604 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 3: in two thousand and eight with small donors, obviously combining 605 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:20,959 Speaker 3: it with a lot of Wall Street and other big 606 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:27,720 Speaker 3: donor money. That opens up the possibility for outsiders without 607 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 3: without money to then come in and challenge. Since then, 608 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:36,280 Speaker 3: you've seen some co opting of that by the Democratic 609 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 3: Party more broadly. I'm sure everybody here has their inbox 610 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:44,239 Speaker 3: completely carpet bombed with messages saying that the world's going 611 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,279 Speaker 3: to end if those those are the nicest ones. The 612 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 3: others kind of look like phone bills or something, So, 613 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:55,960 Speaker 3: you know, taking something that that ought to be a 614 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,319 Speaker 3: beautiful thing, you know, democratizing the process, bringing people in 615 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,279 Speaker 3: and then allowing candidates to take positions based on what 616 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 3: people want rather than what their donors are demanding, gets 617 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 3: then contorted by consultants who then own the kind of 618 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,400 Speaker 3: big emailing firm, so then blast your inbox. So that 619 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 3: that coupled with the fact that you can't really scale 620 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 3: the squad in the sense that one reason that AOC 621 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:25,840 Speaker 3: can raise ten million dollars every cycle is that she's AOC. 622 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,759 Speaker 3: But she's AOC because other people aren't. You can't have 623 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,920 Speaker 3: two hundred and fifty people like that. It's just like 624 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,960 Speaker 3: there is a limited amount of kind of stardom that's 625 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:43,800 Speaker 3: the definition of stardom. And so but it has built, 626 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:48,160 Speaker 3: and in collaboration with the kind of Sanders ecosism, built 627 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 3: at least an ecosystem that is there and can be 628 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 3: and can be triggered when when the moments arise. And 629 00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,759 Speaker 3: so this moment is an example of that where you know, 630 00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 3: if you didn't have them in office, now you know 631 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,239 Speaker 3: where where would the pressure have come from on, you know, 632 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:12,759 Speaker 3: from within the Democratic Party. And so it's it's not 633 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,279 Speaker 3: it's not I don't think it's ever worth giving up. 634 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 3: But there are the challenges. This system is very adaptable 635 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:21,839 Speaker 3: and the challenges are just going to keep replicating. 636 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 2: One of the things that you document in this book 637 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,279 Speaker 2: as well is, obviously you know, if you're going to 638 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,920 Speaker 2: accomplish change, you need allies who have power, like the Squad, 639 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,960 Speaker 2: and you also need outside groups that are going to 640 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 2: pressure put pressure on those in power and be in 641 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 2: the right place when legislation is being crafted. However, just 642 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,440 Speaker 2: at the moment when you know you had a democratic 643 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 2: trifecta and progressives really needed to be flexing their muscles, 644 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 2: a lot of these organizations were eaten up by sort 645 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 2: of internal turmoil. And I've got a quote from you 646 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 2: from the book about what was going on within these organizations. 647 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:03,759 Speaker 2: You say, a sense of powerlessness on the left had 648 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:07,799 Speaker 2: nudged the focus away from structural or wide reaching change 649 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,479 Speaker 2: which felt hopelessly beyond reach, and replaced it with an 650 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:14,840 Speaker 2: internal target that was more achievable. One former executive director 651 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,319 Speaker 2: of a major nonprofit advocacy group told me he saw 652 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,840 Speaker 2: those in his organizations turn inward out of desperation. Maybe 653 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,200 Speaker 2: I can't end racism myself, but I can get my 654 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,960 Speaker 2: manager fired, or I can get so and so removed, 655 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,360 Speaker 2: or I can hold somebody accountable you relate. People found 656 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,720 Speaker 2: power where they could and often that's where you work, 657 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 2: sometimes where you live or where you study, but someplace 658 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,560 Speaker 2: close to home. How did this dynamic play out over 659 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:43,799 Speaker 2: the years that you're covering here, and how did it 660 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 2: intersect with progressive goals getting accomplished through the House and 661 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 2: with this White House. 662 00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:52,600 Speaker 3: Yeah. What one interesting example that I have in the 663 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,880 Speaker 3: book is actually the Sunrise Movement itself, and the Sunrise 664 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,880 Speaker 3: Movement is one of the few organizations that endorsed AOC, 665 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,920 Speaker 3: and I think every member of the squad. They were 666 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:04,960 Speaker 3: an obscure group at that point. They were an obscure 667 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:09,879 Speaker 3: group when they occupied Pelosi's office, but it was that 668 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 3: moment was so electric that it kind of it allowed 669 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,680 Speaker 3: them to eclipse every other green group in Washington and 670 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:22,920 Speaker 3: become these stars. And you then had almost every Democratic 671 00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:26,839 Speaker 3: president presidential candidate endorse a Green New Deal. Even Joe 672 00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:31,680 Speaker 3: Biden's climate platform was arguably like to the left of 673 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:37,200 Speaker 3: Bernie's from twenty sixteen. Like that's how far things had gone. Varshne, 674 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:41,600 Speaker 3: the head of Sunrise, was put with AOC on the 675 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 3: like six person task force assigned to with John Kerrey 676 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:52,279 Speaker 3: to design the Biden climate agenda, and Sunrise had this 677 00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:56,439 Speaker 3: direct line to Ron Klain, who was the White House 678 00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:00,319 Speaker 3: Chief of Staff, who very much believed that and better 679 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,400 Speaker 3: for worse, and whether it's right or wrong, that Sunrise 680 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:07,960 Speaker 3: represented a real youth movement and that their input was 681 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,520 Speaker 3: important and that winning them over meant keeping together the 682 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:15,239 Speaker 3: coalition that would be needed in the to pass legislation 683 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:19,359 Speaker 3: to hold the House and Senate to win reelection. And 684 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:24,440 Speaker 3: so Sunrise found itself in this unique and surprising position 685 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:29,360 Speaker 3: to them where they were constantly able to like shape 686 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,719 Speaker 3: legislation as it was being crafted before it was even 687 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:37,600 Speaker 3: sent over to the Senator House, which is in many 688 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,080 Speaker 3: ways like a more important place to be in the beginning, 689 00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:44,839 Speaker 3: because the product that starts, you know, goes over to 690 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,320 Speaker 3: Congress and then people push it to the left or 691 00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:51,800 Speaker 3: push it to the right, but where it starts dictates 692 00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,360 Speaker 3: like ninety percent of where it's gonna end up. And 693 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 3: so they're right there in the beginning shaping it, and 694 00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:02,560 Speaker 3: it right at that point, Uh, the organization just implodes 695 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:07,440 Speaker 3: over internal internal strife that it had. It was like 696 00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 3: the maybe sixth near implosion there had been you know, Uh, 697 00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:17,279 Speaker 3: there have been tussles over mostly over kind of uh 698 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:23,480 Speaker 3: wages and white supremacy would be the would be the buckets, 699 00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:27,640 Speaker 3: and they'd be tossed in together. But they had been 700 00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:31,359 Speaker 3: suppressed first by you know, we're doing the Green New Deal, 701 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:35,280 Speaker 3: We're doing Bernie Sanders. Uh, you know, we're we're pushing 702 00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:39,040 Speaker 3: this agenda. But once Biden gets into office, and this 703 00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,280 Speaker 3: was this became true for a lot of other progressive 704 00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:44,400 Speaker 3: organizations there. There there was a lack of kind of 705 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 3: faith in a direction, and so there and so those 706 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,560 Speaker 3: pressures that had been suppressed before kind of burst burst through. 707 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,320 Speaker 3: And so I talked to the political director of Sunrise 708 00:41:56,320 --> 00:42:00,440 Speaker 3: who was in who said that right at this moment 709 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:04,040 Speaker 3: of maximal kind of influence, it turned out fifty percent 710 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:06,400 Speaker 3: or more of his time instead was directed toward like 711 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,680 Speaker 3: zoom meetings sorting out all the different issues that they 712 00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:11,520 Speaker 3: were having back in Sunrise. And he was like, and 713 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:13,760 Speaker 3: has he put it? You know, if I'm not there either, 714 00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 3: the Biden White House is just writing its own agenda, 715 00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,359 Speaker 3: which you don't necessarily want to leave them to that 716 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,000 Speaker 3: or some big green groups around there, or oil and 717 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:26,160 Speaker 3: gas groups are in there. And so that's one example, 718 00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,560 Speaker 3: but there are others in the way that the thing 719 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:30,240 Speaker 3: just kind of falls apart. 720 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,800 Speaker 2: We did get a really important question about your performance 721 00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,879 Speaker 2: in the Eastern shore Boat Docking competition, but I will 722 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,040 Speaker 2: put that one to the side. I'll let you comment 723 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:40,040 Speaker 2: on that separately. 724 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:44,440 Speaker 3: That's a fourth of July event in rock Hall, Maryland, 725 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,719 Speaker 3: So whoever asked that can ask it afterwards while I'm 726 00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:48,399 Speaker 3: signing their book. 727 00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:51,200 Speaker 2: One quick question for you. There's a lot of Joe 728 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:53,520 Speaker 2: Mansion in the book, and there's a lot of No 729 00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:57,200 Speaker 2: Labels speaking of big money and the influence on politics 730 00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,680 Speaker 2: and all of that also in the book. And obviously 731 00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,920 Speaker 2: Joe Mansion just announced he's not running for Senate again, 732 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,359 Speaker 2: and there's a lot of speculation that he might try 733 00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,360 Speaker 2: to run for president on No Labels. Take you have 734 00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:09,560 Speaker 2: any insight into whether that is real. 735 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:15,920 Speaker 3: It has been surreal to watch all of these threads 736 00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:21,759 Speaker 3: of this book kind of burst into like full public view. 737 00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,520 Speaker 3: Like I thought when I was writing it, are people 738 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:26,960 Speaker 3: going to think I'm crazy for focusing this much on 739 00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,040 Speaker 3: Apex influence on the squad and those around them? Are 740 00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:33,120 Speaker 3: people gonna think I'm crazy for like chapters on the 741 00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:36,480 Speaker 3: money behind No Labels and Joe Manchin and Josh Gottheimer 742 00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:43,520 Speaker 3: is a basically the founder of No Labels because covering 743 00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:47,640 Speaker 3: this stuff every single day, I saw how kind of 744 00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:52,440 Speaker 3: determinative this money was, not just influential, but just completely 745 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:56,640 Speaker 3: driving things. And so I even though people, even though 746 00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:58,600 Speaker 3: this isn't the thing that gets into the news like this, 747 00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,120 Speaker 3: it has these have to be major themes of the book. 748 00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:05,799 Speaker 3: Now sure, sure enough, Yeah, Nancy Jacobson and Mark Penner 749 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:08,200 Speaker 3: are looking to raise yeah what or they say they 750 00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:12,040 Speaker 3: claim they have raised seventy million dollars to get Joe 751 00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:15,839 Speaker 3: Manchen or whoever they can convince to be on their 752 00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:20,799 Speaker 3: ticket in an effort that would you know, the only 753 00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:22,480 Speaker 3: way you can put it is it would help Trump 754 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,400 Speaker 3: get re elected. Like that's there's no other way to 755 00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:27,839 Speaker 3: see that. Like some some of the weird ones like RFK, 756 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:30,000 Speaker 3: you're like, I don't know how that plays out, But 757 00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:34,400 Speaker 3: No Labels, that's this, that's pretty clear. That's purely a 758 00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:39,600 Speaker 3: play that's gonna hurt Democrats and help Republicans, and that 759 00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:44,279 Speaker 3: that that Gotttheimer and Mansion are are able to like 760 00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:49,879 Speaker 3: participate in that so actively yet be held up as 761 00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:55,200 Speaker 3: kind of these kind of paragons of democratic virtue. Well, 762 00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,080 Speaker 3: how folks like the Squad who are who are constantly 763 00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:01,040 Speaker 3: bending over backwards against the wishes sometimes of their own 764 00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:03,879 Speaker 3: base to support the Democratic Party are constantly being told 765 00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:07,480 Speaker 3: that they're not good enough Democrats. Is the kind of 766 00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:09,080 Speaker 3: the contradiction that runs through the book. 767 00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Well, the last question for you will wrap 768 00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,800 Speaker 2: things up on this one. We started off talking about 769 00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:20,680 Speaker 2: the Squad as a moment. Is that moment over? And 770 00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:22,680 Speaker 2: what do you think? You know, what do you think 771 00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:24,719 Speaker 2: it looks like going forward? What do you think that 772 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:26,920 Speaker 2: the sort of state of the progressive movement is at 773 00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:27,560 Speaker 2: this time? 774 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,200 Speaker 3: I mean, I think the moment is over in the 775 00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:34,920 Speaker 3: sense that that's what it was, But we're in the 776 00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:38,600 Speaker 3: kind of post Bernie, post Squad moment now that is 777 00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:41,680 Speaker 3: that is still that is still being shaped. I think 778 00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:46,920 Speaker 3: it will be significantly shaped by the Democratic Party's response 779 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,279 Speaker 3: to the war in Gaza, and that is ongoing. And 780 00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:55,719 Speaker 3: I fear that we're looking at the beginning like that, 781 00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,360 Speaker 3: as horrible as it is, like that, we might be 782 00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:02,359 Speaker 3: only at the beginning because the the disease has has 783 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,399 Speaker 3: set in, but it hasn't kind of taken over. When 784 00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,440 Speaker 3: you have destroyed that not just the healthcare system, but 785 00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:12,400 Speaker 3: the sewage treatment system. You know, people talked about how 786 00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:16,240 Speaker 3: awful fire festival was because they didn't didn't have sewage 787 00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:18,640 Speaker 3: treatment for like two days or something. You know, this 788 00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:22,840 Speaker 3: is endless, and so I think some of it will 789 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:27,040 Speaker 3: be will be shaped, will be shaped by that. But 790 00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:34,120 Speaker 3: I do think the new generation of voters is is 791 00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:38,200 Speaker 3: kind of structurally different than previous ones. You know that 792 00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:42,200 Speaker 3: people have always thought that young people are to the left, 793 00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:44,839 Speaker 3: like that's but if you if you go back and look, 794 00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:50,200 Speaker 3: young people supported Reagan. There's some debate over whether or 795 00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:52,360 Speaker 3: not they supported Nixon, but it was very very close. 796 00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:54,880 Speaker 3: It was not, by no means a blowout for the 797 00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:58,399 Speaker 3: for Democrats. It's just that the media likes to talk 798 00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,279 Speaker 3: about the left wing ones lot more, and so it 799 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:04,839 Speaker 3: always seemed like generations were left wing. These people under 800 00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:09,960 Speaker 3: thirty thirty five today really genuinely are much more progressive. 801 00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:14,360 Speaker 3: And so that is that is going to mean that 802 00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:17,680 Speaker 3: they're going to see the politics of the squad as 803 00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:21,120 Speaker 3: just normal, like this is how politics ought to be. Like, 804 00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:22,719 Speaker 3: They're not going to see that as radical at all. 805 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:24,759 Speaker 3: And I finish toward the end of the book with 806 00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:29,440 Speaker 3: this wild poll that came out in January in New 807 00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:32,279 Speaker 3: Hampshire where they asked New Hampshire voters, you know who 808 00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:34,560 Speaker 3: are who's your most popular, who's the most who's the 809 00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:37,799 Speaker 3: Democrat that you liked the most? And you would not 810 00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:41,320 Speaker 3: have expected it when in twenty eighteen, but the answer 811 00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:46,000 Speaker 3: was Okazu Cortez and I asked her if she'd seen 812 00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:47,239 Speaker 3: that poll and she was like, I did see that. 813 00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,200 Speaker 3: I don't believe it, but I but I did, but 814 00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:53,120 Speaker 3: I did see it. So that's that's an interesting place 815 00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:53,760 Speaker 3: that this goes. 816 00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:57,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, Ryan, you wanted to close this out with another 817 00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:58,040 Speaker 2: expert short like. 818 00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:02,920 Speaker 3: Two page reading, else to do it? Here? This is 819 00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:12,400 Speaker 3: this is called this is from chapter six, which is 820 00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:19,000 Speaker 3: called doing the thing. And this takes place during the 821 00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:22,040 Speaker 3: government shutdown. If you remember, Trump shut down the government 822 00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:24,279 Speaker 3: in order to get his wall at the end of 823 00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:27,080 Speaker 3: twenty eighteen and wouldn't open it back up. Never got 824 00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,120 Speaker 3: money for the wall, but built a lot of it, 825 00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:34,239 Speaker 3: built a lot of it anyway. So on January twenty second, 826 00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,120 Speaker 3: twenty nineteen, a month into what would become the longest 827 00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:40,319 Speaker 3: government shut down in US history, House Democrats made a 828 00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:43,520 Speaker 3: bid to open things back up, unveiling legislation to fund 829 00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:47,000 Speaker 3: only the agencies under the Department of Homeland Security. There 830 00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:50,000 Speaker 3: would be no wall money, but some supplemental funds would 831 00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:53,040 Speaker 3: go toward improving conditions at the border for detained migrants. 832 00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:56,840 Speaker 3: Six months earlier, AOC had been at those facilities and 833 00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:59,440 Speaker 3: had been shocked by what she saw the treatment of 834 00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:02,840 Speaker 3: the migrants, she said was fascist. Photos of her pained 835 00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:07,240 Speaker 3: emotional reaction had become synonymous with democratic outrage over Trump's policy. 836 00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:10,960 Speaker 3: In her televised debate with Joe Crowley, she had savaged 837 00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:14,200 Speaker 3: him for his hypocrisy on the issue, arguing that while 838 00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:17,680 Speaker 3: he had called immigration and customs enforcement fascist, he wouldn't 839 00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:20,800 Speaker 3: do anything about it. If you think this system is fascist, 840 00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:23,480 Speaker 3: she asked him, then why don't you vote to eliminate it. 841 00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:27,480 Speaker 3: He had no answer. There is no good answer, But 842 00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:31,200 Speaker 3: now it was her responsibility to offer one. She sat 843 00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:34,200 Speaker 3: down with her staff and opened the discussion. Do we 844 00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:38,000 Speaker 3: vote against this funding proposal? She laid out the terms 845 00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:40,760 Speaker 3: of the debate to her team. The bill includes money 846 00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:43,319 Speaker 3: for things we don't support, and we might be the 847 00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:47,279 Speaker 3: only vote against it. Meanwhile, a lot of this is symbolism. 848 00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:49,680 Speaker 3: The party is trying to reopen the government. And it's 849 00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:51,520 Speaker 3: not like this bill will pass the Senate and get 850 00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,520 Speaker 3: signed by Trump. It's a messaging bill, and the message 851 00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:56,640 Speaker 3: is that Democrats are being the adults in the room 852 00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:59,880 Speaker 3: while Trump is having a tantrum. Assembled that day was 853 00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,719 Speaker 3: most of her team, including Chakrabardi, Corbyn Trent, her legislative 854 00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:07,600 Speaker 3: director Ariel Eckbald, and her new legislative aid Dan Riffle. 855 00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:11,400 Speaker 3: AOC noted that eventually she would have to vote for 856 00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:14,960 Speaker 3: a CR short for continuing resolution, a bill that continued 857 00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,080 Speaker 3: to fund the government on the same terms as it 858 00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:20,360 Speaker 3: had been funded. The c R would include the money 859 00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:22,960 Speaker 3: not just for Homeland Security, but also for many other 860 00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:26,279 Speaker 3: agencies whose missions she supported. Drawing a line in the 861 00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:29,240 Speaker 3: sand now, she said, would mean voting against all future 862 00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:32,440 Speaker 3: government funding bills, even when it came to actually reopening 863 00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:35,680 Speaker 3: the government. Where do we draw that line? She asked? 864 00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:40,560 Speaker 3: What is enough? Before she could finish the question, Trent 865 00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:45,000 Speaker 3: interrupted with an answer in the form of his own question, Yeah, 866 00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:48,800 Speaker 3: what is enough to fund a fascist agency that cage's children. 867 00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:53,600 Speaker 3: Nobody had an answer. We all just kind of looked 868 00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:57,720 Speaker 3: at each other. Dan Riffle recalled, like nothing, nothing is enough, 869 00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:01,919 Speaker 3: so we're a no on this. Trent's intervention had ended 870 00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:04,880 Speaker 3: the conversation, but it was clear that what they were 871 00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:07,680 Speaker 3: trying to do was going to be a challenge. You 872 00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:10,160 Speaker 3: could see not just her but me, everybody in the 873 00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:13,560 Speaker 3: office sort of like doing the thing. Riffle said, it's 874 00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:15,600 Speaker 3: going to be hard. He realized it's going to be 875 00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:19,560 Speaker 3: hard for us to be principled here. The squad huddled 876 00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:22,000 Speaker 3: and agreed to vote as a block, making up the 877 00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:25,560 Speaker 3: only four no votes on the bill. A few days later, 878 00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:28,000 Speaker 3: Trump caved and the House voted on a measure that 879 00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:32,160 Speaker 3: was actually meaningful. The bill would reopen the government and Ice, 880 00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:36,279 Speaker 3: the fascist agency AOC wanted abolished. This time, it wasn't 881 00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:40,760 Speaker 3: a messaging bill. This funding would actually get to Ice. AOC. 882 00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:43,279 Speaker 3: Stuck with her no vote on the way to the 883 00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:46,960 Speaker 3: House floor, she shot an Instagram video. Walking beside her 884 00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:50,680 Speaker 3: was Riffel, and she introduced him to her followers. He's 885 00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:54,040 Speaker 3: every billionaire is a policy failure on Twitter, so yeah. 886 00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:56,960 Speaker 3: She equipped a reference to his handle, which had recently 887 00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:00,479 Speaker 3: sparked a national conversation about whether the claim was was fair. 888 00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:05,280 Speaker 3: She subtitled the video with an explanation of her vote. 889 00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:07,800 Speaker 3: Most of our votes are pretty straightforward, but today was 890 00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:10,560 Speaker 3: a tough, nuanced call, she wrote. We didn't vote with 891 00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,520 Speaker 3: the party because one of the spending bills included ice funding, 892 00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:17,319 Speaker 3: and our community felt strongly about not funding that. When 893 00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:21,040 Speaker 3: the role was called, precisely one Democrat voted no. Representative 894 00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:24,440 Speaker 3: Okazio Cortes. The rest of the squad had gone along 895 00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:27,719 Speaker 3: casting The vote was draining. She'd been pressed on the 896 00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:31,279 Speaker 3: floor by party leadership to switch. Told by whipstaff she'd 897 00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,560 Speaker 3: be put on a list. What kind of list? Nobody said, 898 00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:36,759 Speaker 3: but did it, but it didn't sound like a good one. 899 00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:40,320 Speaker 3: She'd been called in for a personal meeting with Steny Hoyer. 900 00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,360 Speaker 3: Everyone had told her that what she was doing was wrong, 901 00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:46,560 Speaker 3: that was hurting the team. It weighed on her. The 902 00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:49,520 Speaker 3: final vote came laid into the night past midnight, and 903 00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:53,600 Speaker 3: Chakrabarty walked aoc back to the apartment. Back to her apartment, 904 00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:57,160 Speaker 3: as they passed Capitol Hill's famous Mexican restaurant, Tortilla Coast, 905 00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:01,400 Speaker 3: a worker was leaving, having just closed it down. Alexandria, 906 00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:03,880 Speaker 3: is that you, he asked? She told him it was. 907 00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:06,680 Speaker 3: I just wanted to say thank you for standing up 908 00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:08,759 Speaker 3: for me and my family. It means so much, he 909 00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:12,240 Speaker 3: told her. The wait for just that moment had lifted. 910 00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:21,560 Speaker 3: Thank you, Ryan, I believe we'll be signing some books 911 00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:23,320 Speaker 3: up here. Thank you, Crystal, My pleasure.