Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with
Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Daniel Moody. Pre recording from the Home Bunker. Folks,
Speaker 1: I hope that you have enjoyed your holiday week. We
Speaker 1: are offered just one more day, but I'm very excited
Speaker 1: to welcome to wok F Daily for the very first
Speaker 1: time Varunnicor, who is the founding executive director of AAPI
Speaker 1: Victory Alliance. And you know, in this conversation with Varun,
Speaker 1: I ask questions, you know, about how the AAPI community
Speaker 1: has been positioned in many ways through the lens of
Speaker 1: white supremacy as model minorities, and what does that mean, right,
Speaker 1: and how they better move past that distinction to link
Speaker 1: arms with other communities of color, the black community and
Speaker 1: other communities of color, And you know, I ask questions
Speaker 1: about what it is that we get wrong right about
Speaker 1: this very diverse, very layered community. And on top of that,
Speaker 1: we get into a conversation which is just shilling right,
Speaker 1: But the last couple of headline mass shootings that we
Speaker 1: saw were actually at the hands of AAPI individuals, directed
Speaker 1: towards people in their own communities. And Varun talks about
Speaker 1: a really startling new marketing campaign that the NRA has
Speaker 1: been doing directing their attention to this community which is
Speaker 1: very affluent but has had a very low gun purchasing rate,
Speaker 1: and how they have exploited, how the NRA has exploited
Speaker 1: these last shootings and the rise in anti Asian hate
Speaker 1: that we saw at the hands of the Trump administration
Speaker 1: and particularly during COVID has used this to try and
Speaker 1: get new fucking members. And it's really wild and crazy,
Speaker 1: and so we talk about so very much in this conversation,
Speaker 1: and you know, it's one that we will continue to
Speaker 1: have on WOKF because I believe that we need to
Speaker 1: What does it look like right to really form a
Speaker 1: multi racial democracy, particularly at a time when white supremacy
Speaker 1: and white supremacy, domestic terrorists violence is at an all
Speaker 1: time high. What does it look like to link arms
Speaker 1: to elevate each other's stories successes as well as traumas,
Speaker 1: and then how do we find solutions together? So I'm
Speaker 1: really excited, folks, to bring you this conversation with Varun Neicor,
Speaker 1: who is the founding executive director of AAPI Victory Alliance. Folks,
Speaker 1: I am very happy to welcome to ook F Daily
Speaker 1: for the very first time Varun Neicor, who is the
Speaker 1: founding executive director of the AAPI Victory Alliance as well
Speaker 1: as the newly launched AAPI Think Tank. Varun, it's great
Speaker 1: to have you on WOKF and I want to start
Speaker 1: off with talking today about the fact that whenever we
Speaker 1: have had a whether it is a mass shooting, it
Speaker 1: is a stabbing, it is a push on the subway
Speaker 1: over the last couple of years, and that violence being
Speaker 1: directed towards a member of the AAPI community. We have
Speaker 1: news reports, we have headlines, we have coverage for what
Speaker 1: feels like a hot minute, and then we go about
Speaker 1: our business in mainstream media. And so I want to
Speaker 1: get a sense from you how you feel about the
Speaker 1: coverage right of said violence against your community, and then
Speaker 1: also how do we continue to have the conversation regardless
Speaker 1: of specific acts that reached the headlines.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I appreciate you having me on, Daniel, Thank
Speaker 2: you so much. This is such a great opportunity to
Speaker 2: tell the larger story of what's happening in America to day,
Speaker 2: at least from the API perspective. You know, the coverage
Speaker 2: is disheartening, I would say in many respects. Right, We've
Speaker 2: heard about shootings go on, you know, literally for decades,
Speaker 2: as gun ownership in the United States has increased, you know, manyfold, Right,
Speaker 2: I think there's six hundred million guns in the country
Speaker 2: or so, and so with I would say the nuance
Speaker 2: that's happening more recently is this concern legitimately over the
Speaker 2: numbers of mass shootings, which are now occurring about one
Speaker 2: a day according to the Gun Violence Archives. And interestingly, right,
Speaker 2: I think there's another trend here that since Sandy Hook
Speaker 2: about ten years ago, a little bit more than ten
Speaker 2: years ago now, the number of ar style weapons, which
Speaker 2: are the assault weapons being utilized in these mass shootings,
Speaker 2: has seen also an exponential rise since Sandy Hook. So
Speaker 2: folks are those with guns, they're not only utilizing these weapons,
Speaker 2: but they're utilizing these weapons because obviously they want to
Speaker 2: cause the most amount of mass destruction in the shortest
Speaker 2: period if possible. Right. So that's that's alarming. And so
Speaker 2: I think the statistic is roughly seventy five percent of
Speaker 2: the mass shooting incidents are now caused by assault weapons. Right.
Speaker 2: So that's why a lot of folks, including our organization
Speaker 2: and many many others are calling for an assault weaponspan
Speaker 2: media has been it's sort of interesting, right, It's there's
Speaker 2: so many things going on in today's new cycle that we, yes,
Speaker 2: we hear about a mass shooting, there's a lot of heartbreak,
Speaker 2: and then we move on to either the next mass
Speaker 2: shooting or we move on to the next you know, incident,
Speaker 2: whether it's the overthrow putin in Russia this week, or
Speaker 2: it's something about you know, Donald Trump's myriad of cases
Speaker 2: the next right. Then it's it's the desensitization. I would say,
Speaker 2: over all of this that alarms me. We are, on
Speaker 2: one hand, desensitized and on the other hand, I think
Speaker 2: we are also we're concerned. Uh. And one one data
Speaker 2: point specifically is you know you're referring to and your
Speaker 2: second question was referring to the API community and how
Speaker 2: we're sort of seeing what I would call the back
Speaker 2: end of the of the of the tail of the
Speaker 2: rise and racist incidents against the ape community post pandemic.
Speaker 2: Right now, it was sort of random acts of violence,
Speaker 2: if you will, and it's now turning into our people
Speaker 2: are being targeted by guns, right and so you've seen
Speaker 2: the extreme nature of the violence and the hate now
Speaker 2: starting to rear its ugly head. And it's unfortunately it's
Speaker 2: not only folks that are not Asian that are causing incidents,
Speaker 2: but it's also Asian Americans who are you know, responding
Speaker 2: to the marketing And I'd love to talk to you
Speaker 2: about that more. But we're responding to the marketing by
Speaker 2: the NRA to our community, exploiting our fears, marketing guns
Speaker 2: to us. We are purchasing the guns. And now unfortunately
Speaker 2: in certain cases we're actually utilizing those guns, like we
Speaker 2: saw in Monterey Park and have Tom Bay earlier than year.
Speaker 2: Both of those mass shootings were Asian Americans.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, let's talk about that because you know, here's the
Speaker 1: thing about the n RA uh and there and their
Speaker 1: underhandedness and how and who they market to and when,
Speaker 1: which is that the marketing is based on fear. Right, So,
Speaker 1: any community that is currently being targeted outside of the
Speaker 1: black community because they don't want the black community to
Speaker 1: have guns, but any other community that is being targeted,
Speaker 1: they then see a marketing opportunity, right, a marketing opportunity
Speaker 1: at the hands of the very thing that is killing
Speaker 1: said members of the community. It's a it's it is
Speaker 1: a it's such a cecuitous and crazy uh web that
Speaker 1: they that they leave and it works, And I do
Speaker 1: I want to talk about those two shootings that happened
Speaker 1: that were at the hands of Asian Americans directed towards
Speaker 1: right the AAPI community, and how did you how do
Speaker 1: you grapple with that? Because you see, the media is
Speaker 1: not very good at nuance. The media is not very
Speaker 1: good at really being able to part out and parcel
Speaker 1: and make sense of complicated issues that the media is
Speaker 1: very binary in their thinking, right, very A. Then we
Speaker 1: go to B very black and very white. So how
Speaker 1: do you talk about how do you think that we
Speaker 1: needed to have a better narrative around those kinds of incidents?
Speaker 2: Well, you're I'll start with You're absolutely right. Mainstream media
Speaker 2: is really not We long for the days of long
Speaker 2: form media, right where you could actually have an intelligent conversation.
Speaker 2: We're devoid of intelligent conversations. You were moving from one
Speaker 2: emotion to the next emotion and uh, you know one
Speaker 2: hundred times in a thirty minute program, right, So uh,
Speaker 2: and so mainstream media is also sort of exploiting this.
Speaker 2: They're furthering the the fear that we all fear feel
Speaker 2: rather you know, during this time, and that's why I
Speaker 2: think many of us have just turned off like nightly news.
Speaker 2: Who wants to watch that right before we go to bed? Right?
Speaker 2: And so you know, I would say in terms of
Speaker 2: this exploitation uh that the NRA is utilizing, they're not
Speaker 2: only utilizing obviously you know, to the uh TO and
Speaker 2: far the API community. Right, they look at whatever marketing
Speaker 2: niche they can, right. They they're they're callousness. Callousness knows
Speaker 2: no bounds, their vileness knows no bounds. As well as
Speaker 2: they're racist. The racist elements of their programming no knows
Speaker 2: no bounce. So with that as an accepted baseline, you know,
Speaker 2: let's just say that, you know, the NRA saw gun
Speaker 2: sales decline in the twenty eighteen to twenty timeframe in
Speaker 2: the latter half of the Trumpet administration. Right, typically gun
Speaker 2: sales go down in Republican administrations, they go up in
Speaker 2: democratic administrations for obvious reasons. But you know, the once
Speaker 2: again it's the exploit exploitation rather that Democrats are going
Speaker 2: to take away your guns, right, And so then they
Speaker 2: saw this sales decline, and then they did ethnographic marketing
Speaker 2: analyzes where they were like, okay, well, where can we
Speaker 2: sell guns? You know, their marketing showed, their analysis showed
Speaker 2: that essentially the API community was it was the lowest
Speaker 2: gun ownership community in the United States, and on a
Speaker 2: per capita basis, we were also the wealthiest community. Wow,
Speaker 2: you know, why don't we mark it to Asians? They
Speaker 2: just started to market to Asians when the pandemic hit.
Speaker 2: And then of course the rhetoric that was spewed out
Speaker 2: of the last administration in Donald Trump's mouth just further
Speaker 2: the you know, the extreme pandemic. So that's the genesis
Speaker 2: of it all. But you know, the NRA kind of
Speaker 2: took their marketing to another level. There's this Chinese American
Speaker 2: gentleman based in California who won a shooting competition and
Speaker 2: he was sort of really interesting. He was untrained, he
Speaker 2: was self taught. He wins this major shooting competition. The
Speaker 2: NRA grabs this gentleman and they decide to make him
Speaker 2: one of their national spokespeople. And of course the words
Speaker 2: that are coming out of this gentleman's mouth are every
Speaker 2: Asian needs to own a gun. Not only is it
Speaker 2: our Second Amendment right, but also you know, just insert
Speaker 2: your you know NRA tach line here. You know, you're
Speaker 2: going to be more safe if you own a gun.
Speaker 2: You're going to keep your family safe. You know all
Speaker 2: this bs, you know, ad infinitem that we hear, you know,
Speaker 2: out of the nira's mouth every day. And and so
Speaker 2: what we saw in twenty twenty was a rise in
Speaker 2: gun ownership sales. And the thing that concerns us as
Speaker 2: as a national organization is and I think reason statistics
Speaker 2: that we've just heard, I think it was out of
Speaker 2: the CDC, if I'm not mistaken, said that the vast
Speaker 2: majority of new gun owners are not trained. But you know,
Speaker 2: a lot of these folks have young kids in the house,
Speaker 2: and if you're not trained on safe storage. We know
Speaker 2: what happens when people own guns. By every measurable statistic
Speaker 2: and metric in the United States of America, one is
Speaker 2: less safe. Soon sides rise, accidental death, accidental injury, intentional death,
Speaker 2: intimate partner violence. You know, just every measurable statistic is
Speaker 2: the wrong way. And I think that, you know, we
Speaker 2: need to do a better job as a community organization.
Speaker 2: And frankly, a lot of you know, I think we
Speaker 2: need to have you know, much like we saw smoking
Speaker 2: public service announcements and you know, tobacco and pollution. We
Speaker 2: need to have that for gun ownership in this country,
Speaker 2: and the gun industry should pay for this. There should
Speaker 2: be a tax. There should be you know, required insurance
Speaker 2: on guns. If guns had an insurance requirement on them
Speaker 2: like every other, like major thing in this country, the
Speaker 2: cost of a gun would go up tremendously because the
Speaker 2: liabilities alone on a person owning a gun. Folks would
Speaker 2: think twice, frankly if if they had to also buy
Speaker 2: corresponding insurance to buy a gun right to protect themselves
Speaker 2: and to protect the safety of the community in those
Speaker 2: around them.
Speaker 1: You know, It's just it's always so fascinating to me
Speaker 1: because I talked to you know, gun reform advocates all
Speaker 1: the time, and the reality is is that if having
Speaker 1: a gun made you safer, than America would be the
Speaker 1: safest country in the world. Right that we have more
Speaker 1: guns in the hands of people than we do people
Speaker 1: in this country, and it is, you know, it's it's
Speaker 1: like two or three guns per person, you know how
Speaker 1: how it maps out, and it's just it's ridiculous and
Speaker 1: even just listening to you because this is the first
Speaker 1: time that I've heard the piece about the insurance is that,
Speaker 1: my god, you know, it is just like we we
Speaker 1: just have a free for all, a free for all
Speaker 1: in this country of Mayhem. You don't need to be trained,
Speaker 1: you barely need to have a license, you don't need
Speaker 1: to have insurance, but you can buy as many guns
Speaker 1: as you want, and no one says anything or does
Speaker 1: anything about it. And then we have, you know, thoughts
Speaker 1: and prayers that are sent down every time that there
Speaker 1: is a shooting.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: One of the other tactics that your organization is looking
Speaker 1: at is going after the banks, going after the banks
Speaker 1: that support gun manufacturers. Can you speak to that and
Speaker 1: why you think that that is a good tactic?
Speaker 2: Yeah? And so I want to give kudos to an
Speaker 2: organization called Guns Down America, which several years ago, I
Speaker 2: think it was twenty eighteen or so, it came out
Speaker 2: with a report card. I want to say, one of
Speaker 2: the first folks in the GDP movement, the gun violence
Speaker 2: prevention movement to do this. And so what they did
Speaker 2: was they rated banks on several factors, you know, but
Speaker 2: the long and short of it was, you know, do
Speaker 2: they invest in the gun industry, do they bank, do
Speaker 2: they allow the NRA to bank with them? Are they
Speaker 2: transparent about gun violence in America? Are they transparent about
Speaker 2: their ESG policies and their principles right related to guns
Speaker 2: and gun violence? And so they came up with this
Speaker 2: report card. It's on a website called is Your Bankloaded
Speaker 2: dot com And so you will see there's I want
Speaker 2: to say about four f rated banks, and Wells Fargo
Speaker 2: is one of them. And so what we did was
Speaker 2: we took their analysis and we worked with them. And
Speaker 2: the reason we sort of picked on Wells Fargo is
Speaker 2: we knew that being a West Coast bank that started
Speaker 2: originally in California and frankly even bragged about and to
Speaker 2: this day still brags about the fact that during the
Speaker 2: Chinese Exclusion Act in the late eighteen hundreds they still
Speaker 2: let Chinese Americans bank with Wells far Go uh and
Speaker 2: that you know, they're good on this related APIs and
Speaker 2: good on that. We wanted to sort of call out
Speaker 2: their hypocrisy of it all. And so what we did
Speaker 2: was we started a campaign about two months ago where
Speaker 2: we protested Wells Fargo because folks don't really realize that
Speaker 2: Wells Fargo is the bank of choice for the NRA,
Speaker 2: and when they were called to testify in Congress several
Speaker 2: years ago, all they would say in response, uh, in
Speaker 2: terms of you know, financing the gun industry and the
Speaker 2: NRA is oh, our relationship hasn't decline. But since that
Speaker 2: time several years ago, they have not set a peep,
Speaker 2: They've not said a word. There's nothing in their annual
Speaker 2: reports in relation to guns or the NRA that's toxic
Speaker 2: of a customer. The gun industry and the NRA are
Speaker 2: And so what we decided to do is almost borrowing
Speaker 2: from you know, Jesse Jackson back in the days of
Speaker 2: the Rainbow Push Coalition, which if your listeners might recall,
Speaker 2: was a time when a lot of Fortune five hundred
Speaker 2: companies and companies in America were just not being very
Speaker 2: good to the black community. Right. There was few if
Speaker 2: any blackboard members, there was few if any black in
Speaker 2: C suites, in higher even in middle management. And so
Speaker 2: what they did was they started protesting and boycotting these banks.
Speaker 2: And we said, you know, I hadn't seen too much
Speaker 2: of that in America as of late. It kind of happens,
Speaker 2: and it doesn't happen, but as a tactic. It's sort
Speaker 2: of lost favorability for one reason. And I started, you know,
Speaker 2: noodling around this issue, and I said, wow, you know,
Speaker 2: Asian Americans are the wealthiest community in this country. How
Speaker 2: do we use the power, the social power, the social
Speaker 2: capital of that wealth. We're not using it at all. Right,
Speaker 2: It's basically we're about it. We don't like to brag
Speaker 2: about it. We're not very for the most outside of weddings.
Speaker 2: I joke, we don't really brag about our house. We
Speaker 2: have the big, elaborate weddings, but outside of that, one
Speaker 2: would never know. And I started to say, you know,
Speaker 2: we need to start using this as a wedge with
Speaker 2: banks and say, look, if you don't start changing your
Speaker 2: corporate policies, if you don't stop defunding the NRA and
Speaker 2: the gun industry, the same industry and the same organization
Speaker 2: that are taking our paychecks and our deposits and our
Speaker 2: investments and then investing it in an industry that's marketing
Speaker 2: to us. We're purchasing more guns, other people are purchasing
Speaker 2: more guns, and then they're killing our community. Right, So
Speaker 2: you can see how this vicious circle starts with assets,
Speaker 2: It starts with money, and that's what we're really trying
Speaker 2: to disrupt.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that it's a I mean, it's
Speaker 1: a brilliant tactic, right because I think that when we
Speaker 1: often see these crises unfold, we think about the NRA,
Speaker 1: we think about the gun manufacturers, but we don't think
Speaker 1: about all of the funding that goes on behind closed doors.
Speaker 1: We don't think about where these organizations, where these groups
Speaker 1: are putting their money, and who is holding it. And
Speaker 1: I think that it is really important to find other
Speaker 1: tactics and other avenues to get the job done right,
Speaker 1: which is to protect as many people as possible. No
Speaker 1: one is saying, oh, take I mean, I say it
Speaker 1: to take people's guns away, because I don't see what,
Speaker 1: you know, what good they do? To be honest, and
Speaker 1: you know, had the founding fathers of this nation had
Speaker 1: you know, a magic eight ball that could have showed
Speaker 1: them what was going to happen, I doubt that they
Speaker 1: would have said, you know what, we should all still
Speaker 1: have the right to bear arms. I think they probably
Speaker 1: would have amended the Constitution or never put it in
Speaker 1: there in the first place, you know, for one of
Speaker 1: the other the other issues that I would love to
Speaker 1: tackle with with just the few minutes that we have
Speaker 1: is that, you know, the API community is a community
Speaker 1: that has been looked at, or at least portrayed by
Speaker 1: wide Americans as the model right as you you know,
Speaker 1: the term model minority, as a way to create a
Speaker 1: wedge between other communities of color, namely the black community, right.
Speaker 1: And so I want you to speak to what it
Speaker 1: looks like or how you move outside of that narrative
Speaker 1: that was placed on your community and work in collaboration
Speaker 1: with other with other racialized minorities uh in this country
Speaker 1: to really create a true multi race democracy, which is
Speaker 1: what we want.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll give you one but one tangible example that
Speaker 2: I think is going to be the most illustrative. Given
Speaker 2: that here we are Tuesday, June twenty seventh, the Supreme
Speaker 2: Court will end their session in about forty eight hours
Speaker 2: or so. We're waiting on a number of rulings, but
Speaker 2: I would say one of the highest profile rulings we're
Speaker 2: waiting on is is what the Supreme Court is going
Speaker 2: to say on possibly striking down affirmative action in college missions. Right.
Speaker 2: And so we are just in the process now of
Speaker 2: you know, preparing our statements and I will say this
Speaker 2: that if it wasn't for affirmative action, and I would
Speaker 2: say this multi racial democracy that relied frankly on affirmative
Speaker 2: action to ensure true diversity in you know colleges, right,
Speaker 2: it is. It is created multi generational wealth for black, Brown,
Speaker 2: Indigenous and API communities, even the communities within the API,
Speaker 2: you know umbrella that are are not as prominent and
Speaker 2: high profile and certainly not money Southeast Asian communities, West
Speaker 2: Asian communities, Pacific Islander communities, et cetera. Right, they don't
Speaker 2: have the wealth that typical Chinese, Indian, Korean, Vietnamese might have. Right,
Speaker 2: and so we need to stand together on this issue.
Speaker 2: We assume the worst is going to come out of
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court. Why because a lot of bad things
Speaker 2: have come out right a year ago a little bit more,
Speaker 2: we got the unfortunate Dopts decision, right, so we know that.
Speaker 2: But this is an opportunity, I think for this Supreme
Speaker 2: Court ruling that we're all waiting on right now, This
Speaker 2: is an opportunity for once again for all of us
Speaker 2: to stay and arms locked and say we cannot move
Speaker 2: forward as a nation. I cannot prosper as an Indian American.
Speaker 2: I cannot prosper as an Asian American API if all
Speaker 2: people don't prosper, but particularly if people of color don't
Speaker 2: prosper in this nation. Those who are less I looked
Speaker 2: at this up the other day. Those that are less
Speaker 2: than twenty one years of age in this nation are
Speaker 2: already living in a majority minority you know ecosystem, right,
Speaker 2: And every year that goes by this country, you know,
Speaker 2: accelerates towards this new country, right, And if it only
Speaker 2: works for white people, you know, it's not good enough.
Speaker 2: It's it's not good enough, and we cannot prosper as
Speaker 2: a nation. We can't have now we grow our GDP,
Speaker 2: we can't lower the black unemployment rate even more, we
Speaker 2: can't lower the Hispanic unemployment rate even more. If we're
Speaker 2: not all you know, together on this one specific issue.
Speaker 2: But I think this issue sort of tells a lot
Speaker 2: about sort of, you know, how this nation is going
Speaker 2: to exist going forward, If we're going to be successful
Speaker 2: or we're not going to be successful. Assuming that this
Speaker 2: this case is, you know, doesn't go our way, I
Speaker 2: think we'll, well, we'll have to figure out, I would say,
Speaker 2: a better way. I don't hear a lot, and maybe
Speaker 2: I'm just not in the right circles. I don't hear
Speaker 2: a lot or see a lot in terms of you know,
Speaker 2: us in the API community talking to you know, black
Speaker 2: orgs and and Latino orgs and indigenous works, you know,
Speaker 2: about how we're going to move forward on affirmative action,
Speaker 2: perhaps on some other issues. You know, we have seen
Speaker 2: a lot more racial solidarity, I would say since George Floyd,
Speaker 2: but I think it's kind of simmered, and maybe this
Speaker 2: will be, you know, another opportunity for us to join
Speaker 2: hands again.
Speaker 1: Varu Nicour, thank you so much for making the time
Speaker 1: for wok F. Thank you for the work that you
Speaker 1: were doing. I think that this was a very illuminating conversation.
Speaker 1: Before you go, please tell people how they can you know,
Speaker 1: connect with your organization, how they can connect with you.
Speaker 2: Our two main channels, of course, our website API Victory
Speaker 2: Alliance dot com and Action API Action is our Twitter handle,
Speaker 2: and of course then you can get connected to our
Speaker 2: Instagram reels as well.
Speaker 1: Okay, wonderful, Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Appreciate you, Thank you, Daniel, appreciate your your voice and
Speaker 2: you uplifting this great conversation. Today.
Speaker 1: That is it for me today. Dear friends on wok
Speaker 1: f as always, power to the people and to all
Speaker 1: the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.