1 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to blow your mind. My name 2 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:10,880 Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and today we're 3 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:13,399 Speaker 1: bringing you an episode from the Vault. This is aunt 4 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 1: War's Part one, originally aired on June twelve. Should we 5 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: go right in, Let's do it. For years, the Trailhead 6 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: nest had been protected by a ten thousand member force 7 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: of its adult members or soldiers. A soldier's exoskeleton, twice 8 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: the size of that of an ordinary worker is literally 9 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:48,520 Speaker 1: heavy armor, thick, tough, and hitted in places for resilience 10 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: and strength. A pair of spines project backward from the 11 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: mid section of the body to protect the waist. Spikes 12 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: protect the neck, and the rear margin of the head 13 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: is curved forward, forming a helmet. When attacked, the soldier 14 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,320 Speaker 1: can pull in her legs and antenna and tighten up 15 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,680 Speaker 1: the segments of her body, turning her entire surface into 16 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: a shield. The ordinary Trailhead workers, while built for labor, 17 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: were also available for combat. They served as the light infantry, 18 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 1: using the swiftness and the agility of their supple bodies 19 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,839 Speaker 1: to dart in and out of enemy lines, seizing any 20 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: leg or antenna available, and holding onto it until their 21 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: nest mates could close in and grab another body part. 22 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: When the adversary was finally pinned and spread eagled, others 23 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: piled on to bite, sting or spray her with poison. 24 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of My 25 00:01:51,360 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey you welcome to Off to Blow your Mind. 26 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. In 27 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: today It's Ants, folks. That's right, this is going to 28 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 1: be Ant Wars Episode one. Uh, the Ampire strikes Back. 29 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: Perhaps I'm not sure. I haven't worked out that the 30 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 1: full title yet, but yeah, we're gonna be taking a 31 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: couple of episodes to look at the wars of the Ants, 32 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 1: and it seemed ideal that we kick off with a 33 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: cold reading from the novel ant Hill, a novel by E. O. 34 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: Wilson which came out in so we were talking about 35 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: this novel before we got started. It actually got some 36 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: surprisingly good reviews. I was thinking about picking up a 37 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:41,399 Speaker 1: copy and reading it until I discovered that a significant 38 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: portion of this novel is about human characters. And I 39 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: was hoping with EO. Wilson, you know, especially in the past, 40 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: we've talked about that video where he like plunges his 41 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: hand into a nest of fire ants and beams with 42 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,679 Speaker 1: the most the most radiant joy as the ants all 43 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 1: biden sting him. At the same time, I was hoping 44 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: it would be all about ants, because if anybody could 45 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: do ants as compelling central characters, I would think it 46 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: would be E. O. Wilson. Yeah, I think I was 47 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: looking at one review of it. There was glowing that 48 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,239 Speaker 1: said that they're about seventy pages in the novel that 49 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: only E. O. Wilson could have written. Um and uh, 50 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:19,639 Speaker 1: and I think this gives everyone a little taste of that. 51 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 1: And when we say, you know, surprisingly, you know great reviews, 52 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: you know it's obviously EO. Wilson is a is a 53 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: tremendous author. But generally he was he was associated with 54 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: with nonfiction, uh, conveying oftentimes conveying science very effectively, um 55 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: to a general audience. But of course fiction is a 56 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: slightly different scenario. So you might expect even a very 57 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: talented nonfiction writer, uh, you know, to to to perhaps 58 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: stumble a bit in trying to create a work of 59 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 1: fiction like this. Oh totally, that's what I mean. I 60 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: didn't mean, like EO. Wilson's a dummy. I just meant 61 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: that usually when somebody who's not primarily a fiction writer 62 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: is like, yeah, I'll do a novel, it's it's not 63 00:03:57,520 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: always great. Well, you know, the main in the main 64 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: example that always comes to my mind is would be 65 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: the the Tech Wars novels that were attributed to William 66 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: Shatner that although I understand it was more of a 67 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: ghostwriting scenario, it was in place and there was some 68 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: some spiritual composition in there. But but I have to 69 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,280 Speaker 1: say it was not the tech Wars that inspired inspired 70 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:20,919 Speaker 1: me to to seek this topic out this week, but 71 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: rather the Clone Wars um and and also the miniature 72 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: board gaming in general. So my son and I recently 73 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: ordered a copy of Fantasy Flight Star Wars Legion miniature Game, 74 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: which is a miniature um war game in the tradition 75 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 1: of things like say Warhammer, Warhammer forty thousand, and then 76 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 1: the older um the the older like napoleonic Um war 77 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: games of old, the kind of thing that has been 78 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: the past time of people such as H. G. Wells, 79 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: who wrote a essentially a rule book for such miniature 80 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: gaming and then was also a favorite pastime of Peter Cushing. Right, 81 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: you recently shared this deo with me where Cushing is 82 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: painting his little figurines. I guess it's Napoleonic Wars or 83 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: some similar temporal event where all these little uniformed figures 84 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: he's like posing them around barns and stuff that he's 85 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: gotten on his floor. I think it was a video 86 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: from the from the nineteen fifties that was done. Yeah, 87 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: it was. It was nineteen fifties, and yeah, he's really 88 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: getting into it, has a whole whole hobby set up, 89 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: and yeah, then he's laying them out on the floor 90 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 1: getting them into into position. Um, you know, a very 91 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:30,919 Speaker 1: very historical based for sure. But yeah, just thinking about 92 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 1: this sort of thing, thinking about miniature gaming in general, 93 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: and thinking about the clone Wars where you have on 94 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:42,039 Speaker 1: one side a bunch of uh, you know, genetically identical 95 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:46,840 Speaker 1: warriors going up against you know, armored robotic hords. I 96 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: couldn't help but think of the ants, the wars of 97 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: the ants. You know, it's amazing how much hymen opteran 98 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 1: conflict we can miss because you're just going about your business. 99 00:05:57,240 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: Maybe you're doing something in your yard, you're hanging out 100 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:02,719 Speaker 1: out in the sun or in the hammock or something, 101 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 1: and you don't even realize that there is literally a 102 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: battle raging just a couple of feet from you around 103 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,919 Speaker 1: the blades of grass. Oh. Absolutely, yeah. They the ants 104 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: are are waging their wars, they're defending their territories, um, 105 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: and and we're talking about against other ants and not 106 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:25,279 Speaker 1: even talking about their their various struggles against other species. 107 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: And it's everywhere. We did not even think about our 108 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: aunts unless they actually invade our homes, and then then 109 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: we get hot and bothered about it. But I imagine 110 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: the most crucial question we have to consider before we 111 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: proceed is can we really consider the conflict we see 112 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: between ant species between different ant colonies as warfare more 113 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: or less in the human sense of the word. Well, 114 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: I mean, in one sense you could say maybe pedantically 115 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:56,679 Speaker 1: and obviously no, because it would necessarily fail to capture 116 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:00,159 Speaker 1: like the full range of human value and culture and 117 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: and passion that the company's conflict between humans. But on 118 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: the other hand, I think you could absolutely probably like 119 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: see some parallels in terms of like pure resource dynamics. Yeah, 120 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: I was thinking about this a little bit. Uh. Sometimes 121 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 1: you see war defined as a declared armed hostile conflict, 122 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: and of course the idea of ants actually declaring war 123 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: on another group of ants is ridiculous because you're getting 124 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: into declarations of war. That's a human political reality and 125 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: is doctor Brundle would probably remind us insects are rather 126 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: short on politics. I mean, I think that that that 127 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: fails to capture even a lot of actual war in 128 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: the human context, where a lot of wars are not 129 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: cold wars by the people carrying them out right. Another 130 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: issue too, is if we're talking about an armed hostile conflict, well, 131 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: ants don't actually take up arms in the human sense, 132 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: and of course they don't have to, because aunts have 133 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: a number of biological weapons and chemical weapons at their 134 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: disposal that make make such tool will use unnecessary. And 135 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: of course we'll be running through some examples of of 136 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: these bio weapons as we proceed through these episodes. However, 137 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: we do tend to discuss these conflicts between ant colonies 138 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: between ant species as being a form of war something 139 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: that we can think of as for as zoologist and 140 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: entomologist Sean O'Donnell pointed out on Serious Science, ants engage 141 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: in quote direct aggressive interaction between ants of different colonies. 142 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 1: They also engage in such conflict over resources, and as 143 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:38,319 Speaker 1: a noted ant expert author of the Human Swarm tropical biologists, 144 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: Mark W. Moffatt has put it, or is quote the 145 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 1: concentrated engagement of group against group in which both sides 146 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: risk wholesale destruction. So it's easy to look at other 147 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: animals perhaps and say, well, cats don't wage war, dogs 148 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: don't wage war. It would be, for instance, kind of 149 00:08:56,280 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: ridiculous to say that um lions are way ing war 150 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 1: against say an antelope. Right, yeah, I I think that 151 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 1: the the analogy would really fall short there. But for 152 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: the ant however, it gets a little, a little, a 153 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: little different. So Mofat contends that the case for ant 154 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:17,079 Speaker 1: warfare is fairly convincing. It's not simply a matter of 155 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: applying the lens of human civilization to the behavior of animals. 156 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 1: What what they are doing and we humans have done 157 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: for thousands of years are both endeavors that entail quote 158 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 1: an astonishing array of tactical choices about methods of attack 159 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: and strategic decisions about when and where to wage war. Now, 160 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 1: the parallel there gets especially interesting because while humans would 161 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 1: have to make tactical and strategic choices in in organized 162 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: conflict consciously, you know, they have to like use their 163 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 1: brains look at what's going on and try to judge. 164 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: I think, uh, I think we would have to say 165 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 1: that the ant carries out its campaigns almost entirely on instinct. 166 00:09:56,120 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: Like it the ant doesn't have strategic theories except it 167 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: naturally does by instinctive behavior. That's right. Yeah, they more 168 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: or less simply do. And we'll get into some of 169 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:09,839 Speaker 1: the details of that here in a second. I want 170 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: to throw in that Douglas j Emlin, who wrote an 171 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: excellent book several years ago titled Animal Weapons uh he 172 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: he uh, weighs in on this and says that, Okay, 173 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 1: for the most part, animals do not fight battles or 174 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 1: wars um and you know it, basically, he says, most 175 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: of the animal conflict that we see in the wild, 176 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: it's ultimately more of a duel, you know, especially as 177 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: far as interest species contests go, you know, like male 178 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: fighting a male over a potential mate. But ants and 179 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: termites are are certainly examples of something that could be 180 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: a standout, you know, in which we do see this 181 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 1: kind of large scale war with high stakes for both sides. Um. 182 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 1: You know, I was thinking a bit about this too, 183 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,559 Speaker 1: that you know, even these other scenarios lions versus antelopes 184 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: and all like, at best, we could maybe think of 185 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: that as a skirmish, right, but certainly not a war. 186 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: Not certainly not a war or of of eradication. Yeah. 187 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 1: I would say that the conflicts between most animals you 188 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 1: see in nature are much more individual. They're less group oriented, 189 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: that they're less organized. Though at the same time that 190 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 1: brings up an interesting question about what what really counts 191 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: as an individual when you're talking about something like a 192 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: colony of ants, because unlike say mammals or birds or something, 193 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: answer a situation where within the colony, it gets harder 194 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: to make the case that the individual ant's body is 195 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: a is a like independent, autonomous agent, and it might 196 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 1: be better thought of as like one organ of the 197 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: the actual individual, which is the overall colony. Yeah. I 198 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: think a lot of it comes down to the fact 199 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: that they are so I mean, they're use social insects, 200 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: and they're so connected that there there is this sense 201 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: of civilization to them. You know, they are you know, 202 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: they're managing resources. In some cases, such with the leaf 203 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: counter ant, they're engaging in agriculture. You know, they there's 204 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: this this whole system that is there that that makes 205 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: the argument for ant warfare a lot more convincing than saying, well, 206 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: this invasive species is waging a war on the native species. Yeah, 207 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: I mean it is out competing it for some resource. 208 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: But it is not like this tight knit unit. It 209 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: is not a like a full blown colony. Now, obviously 210 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: nothing humans do is going to be comparable to something 211 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: in the ant world, but the similarities are pretty startling. 212 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: I want to read a quote from a wonderful two 213 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: thousand and eleven Scientific American article titled Ants and the 214 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: Art of War, and this is also by Mark W. Moffatt. Quote. 215 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 1: Scientists have long known that certain kinds of ants and 216 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:48,359 Speaker 1: termites form tight knit societies with members numbering in the millions, 217 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: and that these insects engage in complex behaviors. Such practices 218 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 1: include traffic control, public health efforts, crop domestication, and, perhaps 219 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: most intriguingly, warfare, the concentrated engagement of group against group 220 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: in which both sides risk wholesale destruction. Indeed, in these 221 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 1: respects and others, we modern humans more closely resemble ants 222 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 1: than our closest living relatives, the apes, which live in 223 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: far smaller societies. So the main similarity between us and 224 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: the ants is that we organize ourselves more so than 225 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 1: almost any other non insect animal right now. Biologically, of course, 226 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: we're much larger vertebrates. We have impressive brains that have 227 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 1: enabled us to achieve unequal technological accomplishments, including but not 228 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: limited to, the production of nineteen fifty four Is Them 229 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 1: and Birdeye Gordon's nineteen seventy seven film Empire of the Ants. 230 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 1: You don't see the ants themselves making films this good. 231 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 1: That's true. Ant cinema is rather lacking, though I don't 232 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: know if I've seen this Birdeye Gordon movie or not. 233 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:52,559 Speaker 1: Of course, Birt Eye Gordon has come up on the 234 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 1: show several times. He's sort of h MR a K 235 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: A Mr Big. He's the king of the force perspective effect, 236 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:00,439 Speaker 1: where you know, you take like a lizard and then 237 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: you shoot it up close against the background and make 238 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: it say that it's a dinosaur. Yeah. I have to 239 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: say I haven't seen Empire of the Ants either. I 240 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: mainly know it because it's referenced in a Warren Zevon song, 241 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: but it's a n seven release. That's that's pretty late 242 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 1: into in the bird Eye Gordon and Giant Animal rampaging world. 243 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: I would think last time I checked bird Eye Gordon 244 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: was still alive. I think he is, oh well, still 245 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: going at Yes, he's ninety seven years old. Alright, So 246 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: obviously ants can't actually top that. You know, they don't 247 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: have language, they don't have civilization in the sense that 248 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: we do. Ants. However, they have a different way of 249 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: going about things. So for instance, they produce While we're 250 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: like a fifty fifty male female species, ants only produce 251 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: males to serve as short lived reproductive drones, to fertile queens. 252 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: That's right, I mean ants are females basically. Yeah, the 253 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: vast majority of the colony consists of sterile females. And 254 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: while the queen terminology, you know, if we talk about 255 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: the queen ant and it brings with it the legacy 256 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: of human centralized power structures. Ultimately, ants function without a 257 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: power hierarchy or a permanent leader. They are entirely decentralized. So, 258 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: like you said earlier, combat decisions, they're not made by commanders. 259 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: You know, if if this was a miniature war game, 260 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: you wouldn't have like the commander piece that's essential for 261 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: all of this to take place. No, it's rather a 262 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: case of form intelligence. That is one of the hardest 263 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: things to keep in mind because there there's this natural 264 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: tendency we have to assume that something called the queen 265 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: is in charge. But yeah, when you're thinking about aunts, 266 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 1: you have to remember that basically ants are always at 267 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: war and the queen is never in command. The queen 268 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: doesn't tell the ants what to do. They are highly 269 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: motivated to protect the queen. But that's kind of in 270 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: the same way that like you are highly motivated to 271 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: protect the most vulnerable parts of your body from injury, right, 272 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: like you'd protect your face and stuff. Like the queen 273 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: is there reproductive chances and that's why she is protected, right, 274 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: and she's she is very important. There's some passages in EO. 275 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: Wilson's novel where where the tragedy of the fall of 276 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: their their queen is discussed and how this is a 277 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 1: you know, part of the peril that this key group 278 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: of ants finds themselves in. But ultimately, the wars of 279 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: ants and the wars of humans they're often fought for 280 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: the same reasons. Territory, food, ideal dwelling spaces, and even labor. 281 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: So some ant species do in fact employ something that 282 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: we might think of as slave labor, and we'll come 283 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: back to that as we go. But also ants deploy 284 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: various tactics depending on what is at stake. So, like 285 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: you know, not every war is equal to the ant colony. 286 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: There is um, there's a fluctuation in, you know, the 287 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 1: amount of effort that is put into it, how much 288 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: ant power is is put on the line, et cetera. However, 289 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: in his book The Human Swarm, Moffatt speaks a little 290 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: bit more about this, about the basic comparison in between 291 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: human and ant warfare, and he does he does write 292 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 1: the quote, if nothing else, remember this, comparing identical things 293 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: is deadly boring. Making comparisons is most fruitful when parallels 294 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: are noticed between ideas or things or actions ordinarily treated 295 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: as distinct. Uh. And he discusses this at length in 296 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,440 Speaker 1: that book, if if, if anyone wants to pick that 297 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 1: up and explore more. But I think this is also 298 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: something that's important to keep in mind. Yeah, it's it's 299 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:26,679 Speaker 1: not a one to one, but if it were a 300 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: one to one, we probably wouldn't be doing a podcast 301 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,680 Speaker 1: about it, right, all right, we need to take a 302 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 1: quick break, but when we come back, we will talk 303 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:40,920 Speaker 1: about aunt warriors in classic literature. Than all right, we're back. 304 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: So we spent the whole first portion of this episode 305 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: talking about the idea of comparing ant warfare to human 306 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: warfare and uh, and to what, to what extent it's fair, 307 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: what extent it makes sense? And ultimately it's irrelevant because 308 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: we still do it, and we've been doing it for 309 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 1: a very long time. We've been making that connection between 310 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: human warfare in ant warfare, perhaps for as long as 311 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,159 Speaker 1: warriors have had a chance, uh, you know, to pause 312 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 1: on the battlefield and look down between their human feet 313 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: and see a smaller version of their campaigns playing out 314 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: in the dirt beneath them. For instance, if we look 315 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: back to the Iliad, the specialized warriors who serve the 316 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: mighty Akellyes are known as the Myrmidons. The aunt people 317 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,199 Speaker 1: is the the literal translation of that. Now I know. 318 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:33,439 Speaker 1: According to some mythological sources, the Mermandons who fight with 319 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: Achilles actually were ants at some point. Isn't that right? 320 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: They were like transformed into human warriors from their aunt origins. Yeah, 321 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 1: The tradition that we see in Ovid's metamorphosis, for example, 322 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: is that is that the gods transformed the ants into humans. Uh, 323 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 1: and that's why they have these these ant like uh 324 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: uh tendencies. They have this ant like tenacity because they 325 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: are essentially ants that were made human. But of course 326 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: that was not the actual reality. These were these were 327 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: human troops, and we have to make some sort of 328 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 1: sense of it. Uh. I was reading a two thousand 329 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: tin paper published in the Classical World by Matthew Sears 330 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:18,159 Speaker 1: titled Warrior Ants Elite Troops in the Iliad, and he 331 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 1: points out that massed fighting was probably the norm in 332 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:24,160 Speaker 1: the days of Homer, but that in this we get 333 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,880 Speaker 1: into scholarly conflict over the idea of the hop light 334 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: revolution and the prin pre hop light and hop light warfare. 335 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,159 Speaker 1: Now this refers to the Greek use of spears and 336 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 1: shields and the phalanx formation. So this is kind of 337 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 1: like an ant level um of of of cooperation that 338 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 1: stands in contrast to mass fighting and the dramatic single 339 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 1: combat episodes of the Iliad. So the basic idea here 340 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: is that the Myrmidons as well as you know, opposing 341 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: soldiers under AJAX might be understood as specialized warriors, professional 342 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: soldiers who use this type of tight formation with the 343 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:06,120 Speaker 1: shields providing you know, absolute support for the unit and 344 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: uh and the offensive spears used in a very deliberate 345 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:11,879 Speaker 1: manner as opposed to just a bunch of warriors running 346 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 1: out and going at it. So definitely keep the phalanx 347 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 1: in mind, because we'll come back to it and discuss 348 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 1: it more when we get into ant tactics a bit. 349 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,920 Speaker 1: But basically, on both sides of the conflict described in 350 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:25,119 Speaker 1: the Iliad, the ideas that you would have had a 351 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: mix of such professional, highly trained fighters alongside more general 352 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: generalized troops, and of course this would remain a reality 353 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: in warfare for a long time, the professional soldiers fighting 354 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: alongside the h you know, basically common commoners, common men 355 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:43,479 Speaker 1: who have just been given arms or have taken up 356 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 1: arms in the conquest. Now in this series goes and 357 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,359 Speaker 1: of course into a great deal more detail because it 358 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 1: is primarily concerned with the ancient world, but he actually 359 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: poses the question of whether ancient people's without special lenses 360 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,160 Speaker 1: would have been able to mark the similarities between human 361 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,919 Speaker 1: and ant organize conflict and based on the work of others. 362 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: He says, yeah, you know, we look at the traditions 363 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 1: in Africa, Australia and New Guinea. Uh, in cases where 364 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,639 Speaker 1: you have people who know who have not used specialized 365 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: gear to analyze ants, and they have long made these comparisons. Quote, 366 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,880 Speaker 1: the warlike characteristics of ants would have been just as 367 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 1: apparent to the eyes of the ancient Greeks as they 368 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: were to throw and McCook. In short, the description of 369 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: achilles men as aunt people maybe due to their resemblance 370 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: in terms of ferocity, uh, tactical ingenuity, unit cohesion, and 371 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: general belicocity to these insects, as as as observed by 372 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: the ancients. Okay, so what makes them like ants? It's 373 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,919 Speaker 1: that they are fierce, that they execute tactics effectively, that 374 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: they stick together and don't break up into individuals, and 375 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 1: that they're very aggressive. Yeah they're not. Just yeah, I 376 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 1: think the sticking together and like working as a as 377 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: a unit is keyty Here. It's not the warfare of 378 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 1: sort of you know, random battle. It's not the warfare 379 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: of like the one hero fighting the other hero at 380 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 1: the at the at the walls of Troy. No, it 381 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: is about tactics and in uniform performance exactly, and that 382 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: is the advantage of the phalanx. Alright, So the next 383 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: question folks might wonder is how long have Aunt's waged 384 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,159 Speaker 1: these wars? Or maybe you haven't, maybe you're not asking 385 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: that question, but let me go and tell you. It's 386 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: an interesting question with an interesting answer. Tell us the answer, Robert, 387 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: All right, well, well, first of all, let's let's consider 388 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 1: the big picture. First, we have to really stop and 389 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: realize that we live in the world of the ant. 390 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,640 Speaker 1: Because today the world is home to an estimated twenty 391 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: two thousand species of a hant, and of those, only 392 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: I've seen two different numbers for this, uh, twelve five 393 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:51,679 Speaker 1: hundred or perhaps thirteen thousand have been classified or described. 394 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 1: So we're still talking thousands of ant species out there 395 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: that we just you know, don't have a good hand line, 396 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 1: maybe don't even have names for um. According to ted 397 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 1: Are Shooltz in a paper on ant ancestors, ants probably 398 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:12,680 Speaker 1: account for fifteen of the terrestrial animal biomass today. So 399 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: that means if you take all of the animals that 400 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: live on land, and of course this doesn't include plants 401 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: and stuff like that, but all the animals that live 402 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:23,400 Speaker 1: on land, you weigh them all together, this estimate would 403 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 1: say fifteen of that is just ants. Yeah, And apparently 404 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,159 Speaker 1: in areas where they're especially prominent, you could maybe be 405 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: looking at they because they and they thrive everywhere. Like 406 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 1: certainly they're they're you know, around the you know, the 407 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 1: the Equatorial belt, they're going to be especially active. But 408 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: they thrive everywhere except Antarctica and as well as the 409 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: occasional far flung and inhospitable island. Otherwise the ants just 410 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 1: have it all locked down. Now, that's an amazing estimate, 411 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: and I do want to be fair. I've been reading 412 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 1: around and I think there are some disputes about exactly 413 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 1: how much biomass ants account for the Different people have 414 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: different estimates. Um. But one other estimate I came across 415 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,639 Speaker 1: that was very interesting. It was quoted in a in 416 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,679 Speaker 1: a BBC article I was reading about aunt biomass It 417 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 1: quotes Francis Ratniqus, who is a professor of apriculture at 418 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: the University of Sussex, and Ratnius was trying to address 419 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,440 Speaker 1: the question of what ways more all the ants or 420 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: all the humans. Uh, And there have been different answers 421 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: to this question. Ratnix thinks that, well, now, probably if 422 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: you weighed up all the humans, the humans way more 423 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:35,400 Speaker 1: than the ants um But that hasn't always been the case. Definitely, 424 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 1: Ratnique says, if you went back a few thousand years, 425 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 1: ants would have far outweighed the humans. But as human 426 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 1: populations have grown exponentially, especially in recent centuries, that changed. 427 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: Ratnique thinks it was probably right around the late seventeen 428 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: hundreds or maybe a little bit before that, that the 429 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:56,160 Speaker 1: total weight of humans on Earth suddenly became larger than 430 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,159 Speaker 1: the total weight of ants. So around the time of 431 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 1: American into it's the humans overtook the ants. Wow. Uh, 432 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 1: here's another figure. And again these are all estimates, so 433 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 1: you know, don't you know, have any particular factor like 434 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 1: tattoo in your body regarding this. But the Field Museum 435 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 1: has a wonderful ant page uh ants section of their website, 436 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: and they they point they make the claim that in 437 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 1: the tropics, ant biomass outweighs all vertebrate life two to one. Yeah, 438 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: and that that emphasizes that like the percentage of ants, 439 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 1: as biomass is going to be heavily dependent on environment. Right, 440 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: So around the equatorial regions where they're even more abundant, 441 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 1: they might they might massively outweigh humans. I mean the 442 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: take home is that that basically, no matter how often 443 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: we fail to notice ants in our environment, they are 444 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 1: an extremely successful species. By you know, by some accounts, 445 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: they are the most successful insect on the planet, which 446 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: really puts them, uh, you know, in consideration for the 447 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,120 Speaker 1: most sessiful animal on the planet. Oh yeah, I mean, 448 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: insects dominate the animal world, and especially especially the terrestrial 449 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,159 Speaker 1: animal world, and if ants dominate the insects, I mean, 450 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 1: I think you could absolutely make a good case there. 451 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: But the funny thing is you have to imagine, like 452 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,920 Speaker 1: all other organisms or families of organisms on Earth, there 453 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:24,159 Speaker 1: was a time when ants were newcomers on the evolutionary scene. 454 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:28,159 Speaker 1: And they can't always have had this this uh you know, 455 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 1: occupied this elevated station. That's right. They were not an 456 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: overnight success. Uh. Ants evolved and estimated one forty two, 457 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,479 Speaker 1: one hundred and sixty eight million years ago, so they 458 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: are ultimately a product of the Jurassic But but yeah, 459 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: they were not an instant hit uh. I was reading that. 460 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: You know, scientists consider that they're probably like a modest 461 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: success at first. You know, um ants were doing their thing, 462 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 1: but they weren't just blowing up. But then something changed. 463 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: Flowering and fruiting plants evolved an estimated one million years ago. 464 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 1: And what this did is it transformed the energy economy. 465 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 1: Insects suddenly had in it were not suddenly, but insects 466 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 1: progressively had an entirely new food source to adapt to, 467 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,919 Speaker 1: um a whole slew of new food sources. And so 468 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 1: they did. And ants, which were again probably just a 469 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: modestly successful life form at best earlier, suddenly exploded, filling 470 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 1: out these these various niches in the in the ecosystem. 471 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 1: They adapted to a host of evolutionary niches and then 472 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:38,120 Speaker 1: spread across the two supercontinents of Eurasia and Gondwana. I'm 473 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: trying to imagine the scene of the first time some 474 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 1: ants discovered it fallen fruit. What a small moment that 475 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: would have been. Almost it's almost like an ant Garden 476 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:49,239 Speaker 1: of Eden story. Yeah, And and it's like it's just 477 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 1: basically like all levels of this new fruit flower economy, 478 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 1: like the ants are there to figure out how to 479 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: make it work, and you know, and and of course 480 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 1: steadily evolve into these various species. Is that um to 481 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,959 Speaker 1: take advantage of it in various ways. Now, as Schiltz 482 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 1: points out, we don't have much evidence of ants from 483 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: the first half of their existence. Not until the mid 484 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 1: Cretaceous do we see their fossil remains. But the evidence 485 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 1: we have is pretty incredible. In nineteen sixty six, E. O. 486 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: Wilson and others identified the fossil remains of a Cretaceous 487 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: ant species that was trapped in amber from ninety two 488 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: million years ago. But then there there there have been 489 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: some more recent exciting findings. Ancient Burmese amber from Myanmar 490 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:34,919 Speaker 1: gives us even older evidence. I was reading about a 491 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: two thousand sixteen study from Rutgers that was at the 492 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 1: time of that study dated to ninety nine million years ago. 493 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 1: And according to Philip Bardon of the Insect and Evolution 494 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 1: Lab and Jessica l Where of the Department of Biological 495 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: Sciences at Rutgers University Newark, what what the contents of 496 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: this chunk of amber show us is a frozen act 497 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 1: of ant warfare. Oh, I see it. They're in a tangle. Yeah, 498 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: it's it's two ants battling it out, duking it out, 499 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,479 Speaker 1: trapped forever in this uh, this droplet of amber. Well, 500 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 1: I'm imagining a scene where the scientists from Jurassic Park 501 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 1: drill into this amber and they use it to clone 502 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: dangerous Jurassic fruit right as they get the stomach content. 503 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: I don't know if that joke connected. Okay whatever, Um no, no, 504 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 1: I give it to your your cooking there. So the researchers, 505 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 1: though they do not go in that direction. What the 506 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 1: What they say is that the ants trapped here belonged 507 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 1: to early Aunt lineages. They're ultimately distinct from modern ants, 508 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 1: so they're not really direct ancestors of modern ants. But 509 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: in their study they present evidence that that these ancient 510 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: ants were social and and they were you know, engaging 511 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,719 Speaker 1: in this kind of uh you know, collective conflict. Another 512 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 1: bit of amber, they point out, contains some twenty one 513 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 1: worker ants, and this is from a time period in which, 514 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 1: again ant fossil evidence is super rare, So they say, 515 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 1: to get twenty one in one blow suggested they were 516 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: already you know, very social, working together. So we're looking 517 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: at a good one million years of ant warfare based 518 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: on this, you know, at least memo or less, lining 519 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: up with the advent of flowering and fruiting plants, with 520 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: true dominance of the ants being reached some sixty million 521 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 1: years ago. Now, other things, of course evolved as well, uh, 522 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: including some of their various features. Uh. Interestingly enough, some 523 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: of the ancient ants were rather brutal looking, even more 524 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 1: brutal looking than they look today. For instance, there were 525 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 1: the hell ants uh so named because they feature many 526 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: characteristics that some might you know, consider unusual or hellish. Um. Yeah, 527 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: I found out because because you linked it to this 528 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: one called Lingua Mermix, vladdie, And I was looking at 529 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 1: that name for a second, thinking, wait, Vladdie, that that 530 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 1: can be? Is it? Is it? Vlad is it Vladim Paler? 531 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 1: It is named for Vladim Paler because it has this 532 00:30:55,240 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 1: U unique head structure where it has um Uh. It's 533 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 1: kind of difficult to describe because it's it has like 534 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: this paddle like projection on it and uh and X 535 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 1: ray uh imaging reveals that it was most probably filled 536 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 1: with sequestered metals to make it like you know, fortified uh, 537 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: and that it would have worked in tandem with scithelike 538 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 1: mandibles to pin and potentially puncture soft bodied prey. So 539 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: it was you know, there's this real you know, bear 540 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,959 Speaker 1: trap of a head on this thing. I'm looking at 541 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 1: images of it now. It is a brutal spike coming 542 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: out of the head. Yeah. Now, this isn't to say 543 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 1: there aren't some really gnarly ant heads around today. We'll 544 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 1: get back to some of those later on. But one 545 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: of the important tacoms from all of this, and this 546 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 1: is something that Sean O'Donnell points out in that that 547 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 1: serious science article on ant wars. He points out that 548 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 1: there's an important shift in the weaponry of ants across time. 549 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: So long ago, vertebrates were probably the biggest threat to ants, 550 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: so they were more equipped to deal with them via 551 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 1: things like a powerful sting. But as time passed and 552 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: they spread her across the world, they become more and 553 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: more successful. Pressure on each other becomes more prevalent. In 554 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: other words, the endless aunt wars become more important for 555 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 1: shaping their evolution than the dinosaurs, the birds, and the 556 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 1: various mammals that preyed on them. So they used to 557 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 1: be they used to have to be more worried about 558 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 1: and eaters and armadillos getting in there and vacuum them 559 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 1: up with the snout but over time their real adversaries 560 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 1: become the rival. I'm an opter in colonies exactly. So 561 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 1: ultimately some AUNT lineages end up keeping their sting. For example, 562 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 1: the bullet ant whose bite ranks as a four. That's 563 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 1: the maximum score on Schmidt's sting pain index um. There 564 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 1: I was reading a description. This is by Justin Oschmidt, 565 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 1: the entomologist who came up with this system of measuring 566 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: UH the stings. He described it as quote pure intense, 567 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 1: brilliant pain, like walking over flaming charcoil with a three 568 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,480 Speaker 1: inch nail and embedded in your heel. Yeah. I've read 569 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: descriptions of this one as well. The only other thing 570 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: that I recall being compared to this level of pain 571 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: with the sting was the tarantula hawk, which is a 572 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 1: type of stinging wasp, but apparently it is just like 573 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: unimaginable in terms of an insect thing. So that's an 574 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 1: example of of ants that have kept their impressive bioweapon um, 575 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 1: but others lost it entirely, and in some cases, UH 576 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 1: these systems adapted into chemical weapons systems to be used 577 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 1: against other ants, and we'll discuss those later on in 578 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 1: this UH this look at ant warfare because the end 579 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 1: of it is up taking a different form because ultimately 580 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: you're trying to solve different problems at different scales with 581 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 1: different enemies. Okay, it looks like it's time for us 582 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: to take a break, but we'll be right back with 583 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:59,560 Speaker 1: more than all Right, we're back. So we've now come 584 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: to the poor of our our episodes here where we're 585 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 1: going to really get into the endless wars of ant 586 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,920 Speaker 1: kind and the sorts of tactics they employ on the battlefield. 587 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 1: And we're probably not going to be able to to 588 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,240 Speaker 1: make it all the way through the this next section 589 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,000 Speaker 1: without having to stop the episode and come back in 590 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 1: part two. But if everything goes according to plan, you're 591 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: only gonna have to wait like a day for the 592 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,840 Speaker 1: ant wars to continue. Now, the most important fact to 593 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,160 Speaker 1: drive home first is that naturally there are so many 594 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:31,239 Speaker 1: species of ants to consider, and that you know a 595 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,720 Speaker 1: specific species. Tactics are then also going to change depending 596 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: on circumstances, and this is just going to be the 597 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,759 Speaker 1: nature of war. Moffett rights that some ants succeed in 598 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:44,839 Speaker 1: battle by being on constant offensive, and he draws an 599 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 1: interest in comparison here to a sixth century BC Chinese 600 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:52,799 Speaker 1: military general Son Zoo, who also noted that quote, rapidity 601 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 1: is the essence of war, right, I mean, so much 602 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,280 Speaker 1: depends on your ability to not give your opponent time 603 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 1: to react act effectively. Right, and so like the key 604 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,279 Speaker 1: A variety of aunt to draw a comparison here to uh, 605 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,279 Speaker 1: he says, would be the army ants that inhabit a 606 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,320 Speaker 1: warm regions around the world, as well as ages marauder 607 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 1: ants as prime examples here. Uh. For these aunt legions, 608 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 1: hundreds or even millions of these warriors will advance in 609 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:24,399 Speaker 1: a tight phalanx against their AUNT adversaries. Now, I guess 610 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,239 Speaker 1: we should try to examine what that would mean for 611 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:29,719 Speaker 1: ants as opposed to human warriors. So, if you're like 612 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 1: an ancient Greek phalanx, this would involve, say, staying together 613 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 1: in a tight formation with a wall of shields out 614 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 1: in front that's sort of like prevents the enemy from 615 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,319 Speaker 1: reaching you, and that you would have trained to be 616 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 1: able to move forward and thrust with spears in an 617 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 1: organized fashion, all altogether minimizing the chances for the enemy 618 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 1: to to break into you while you're pushing into them. Yeah, Like, basically, 619 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:58,560 Speaker 1: the difference between like just two hordes, like just slamming 620 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,439 Speaker 1: into each other. And how thing something more and more 621 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,440 Speaker 1: in keeping with really what we've seen in the tradition 622 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:07,319 Speaker 1: of tabletop war gaming. Uh, for anyone out here there 623 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,280 Speaker 1: is actually played any of these games, you can certainly relate. 624 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,319 Speaker 1: But even if you've looked at one, you get the 625 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 1: sense of order, and I think that's what draws players 626 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,399 Speaker 1: into it. Right. You have all these these units, these 627 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 1: little individual soldiers that are part of different units, and 628 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 1: these units are working together. You're having to employ a 629 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 1: strategy to deploy them and then move them around and 630 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 1: counter the movements of your adversary. And again, for a 631 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,840 Speaker 1: human this is done by you know, either the godlike 632 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,319 Speaker 1: figure that looms over the gaming table or it it 633 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,920 Speaker 1: is the domain of a commander. But for the ants 634 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,759 Speaker 1: it is it is just that pure swarm intelligence that 635 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,279 Speaker 1: allows it to take place. Now, Momft points out for 636 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,960 Speaker 1: that for for human forces just advancing in a phalanx, 637 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,239 Speaker 1: part of the issue here is you need to know 638 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 1: where you're going, right, which is obvious, your your your 639 00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,000 Speaker 1: your your phalonx needs to have a target or goal 640 00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 1: or purpose like cutting its way through the defenses in 641 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,040 Speaker 1: order to get to the gates of Troy, that sort 642 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,399 Speaker 1: of thing. But some hands ants, however, just kind of 643 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 1: stick to this roving phalanx tactic, just a roving decimating 644 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 1: horde that that brings to mind. Oh, I'd say like 645 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,720 Speaker 1: the Tyra the Tyrant Army from forty Warhammer forty thousand 646 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,040 Speaker 1: MND made an example of this, you know, or various 647 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:28,399 Speaker 1: sort of alien bio adversaries in science fiction where it's 648 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,560 Speaker 1: just it's just this massive horde that's working in unity 649 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:36,360 Speaker 1: and uh, it's difficult to stop. Right. However, human forces, 650 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:38,719 Speaker 1: you know, tend not to go this route. They tend 651 00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 1: to depend on scouts as well to determine where to 652 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,799 Speaker 1: apply that offensive pressure, where to send your phalanx, and 653 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: some ants do this as well. Some species will send 654 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 1: out a small team of workers to serve as scouts. 655 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 1: But this too is risky. Is this risky strategy for 656 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,800 Speaker 1: ants because a team of scouts they have to report 657 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 1: back to the colony in order for a larger force 658 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,560 Speaker 1: too then return to obtain that food source that they 659 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 1: just scouted. And this is true of human scouts as well. 660 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,759 Speaker 1: In a military scenario, we might well consider the case 661 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 1: of imperial probe droids for example, right, and Empire strikes back, 662 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:16,480 Speaker 1: you send out these droids and yet one may discover 663 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 1: a rebel base on Hoth, but it actually needs to 664 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,719 Speaker 1: survive and then it's and then get word back to 665 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,960 Speaker 1: the Empire so they can deploy their their A T eighties, 666 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,359 Speaker 1: you know, their their massive army. Likewise, the Empire would 667 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,400 Speaker 1: find this to be a better method send out the 668 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,720 Speaker 1: probe droids, because we can't send the A T eighties 669 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:38,439 Speaker 1: to every world just in case there's a rebel base there. 670 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,440 Speaker 1: So basically for the for the Empire, for the ants 671 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:45,360 Speaker 1: as well, it basically means that you can depend on 672 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 1: you can send out fewer ants and cover a larger 673 00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:52,200 Speaker 1: area in order to scout out potential targets in the 674 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,440 Speaker 1: case of the ants, potential food. Now I can imagine though, 675 00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:57,920 Speaker 1: there are a lot of considerations that must be built 676 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:02,560 Speaker 1: into ant behavior based on not wasting resources on like 677 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 1: you know, on you know, going somewhere where there's no 678 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 1: longer anything useful to be done, right, Yeah, because there's 679 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,360 Speaker 1: always the risk that the enemy will move before a 680 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,799 Speaker 1: larger force can arrive, or that that food source that 681 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:15,840 Speaker 1: was scouted out it's just not going to be there 682 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:19,200 Speaker 1: when you're true your aunt troops roll in and uh 683 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 1: in all of this for the for the ants, pheromones 684 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:25,279 Speaker 1: are key for their communication. Here, the Scouts use this 685 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,720 Speaker 1: to tag the food source for the larger force to find. 686 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,960 Speaker 1: So so the pheromones of the ants here would be 687 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:36,320 Speaker 1: the imperial probe droids dab day about kind of message 688 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,719 Speaker 1: that it sends out. Yeah, basically like the pheromones end 689 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,520 Speaker 1: up serving as communication lines. Some of it rights that 690 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,480 Speaker 1: uh quote the workers of the army ants or marauder 691 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,400 Speaker 1: ants can immediately summon any help they require because a 692 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:52,200 Speaker 1: slew of assistance are marching directly behind them. The result 693 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 1: is maximal shock and awe. So much like in more 694 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,200 Speaker 1: large scale conflicts, you would have to you'd have to 695 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,879 Speaker 1: in some way ensure that communication in lines are able 696 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:04,279 Speaker 1: to remain open for forces to be effective exactly. And 697 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,560 Speaker 1: again here you know, the for the ants it is 698 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,239 Speaker 1: is largely this realm of of touch and smell. It's 699 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:14,000 Speaker 1: the pheromonal information that's so key. So really I feel 700 00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:15,920 Speaker 1: like this at this point in the podcast, I think 701 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:20,200 Speaker 1: we do have a pretty broad view of like what's 702 00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 1: going on with on with the ant war effort about 703 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:28,280 Speaker 1: how how troops are distributed, how communication is taking place, 704 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:32,600 Speaker 1: and then how offensive pressure can be applied to different 705 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,680 Speaker 1: areas depending on the need. Oh, but there is so 706 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:39,879 Speaker 1: much more ant battle to talk about. Yes, indeed there is. Uh. Yeah, 707 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 1: we we were only able to get through like the 708 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:44,560 Speaker 1: first half of our material here because there's a lot 709 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,920 Speaker 1: more about well just about like the at the individual level, 710 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:49,799 Speaker 1: there's a lot more about like the how like aunt 711 00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 1: jaws work, the power of ant bioweapons, it's etcetera. But 712 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,080 Speaker 1: then also when you get into the Marauder ant specifically, 713 00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:02,040 Speaker 1: there's been a lot of wonderful work, uh regarding just 714 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,880 Speaker 1: how they carry out their campaigns and to what extent 715 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:09,160 Speaker 1: we can compare uh, these these acts of ant conquest 716 00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:11,920 Speaker 1: to actual human battles. Well, I can't wait to come 717 00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,920 Speaker 1: back next time and fight on with the Myrmadons. Yeah, 718 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:19,400 Speaker 1: more ants, more allusions to UH star Wars and various 719 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:23,880 Speaker 1: UH tabletop gaming scenarios. It's gonna be gonna be a 720 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:25,960 Speaker 1: lot of fun. In the meantime. If you would like 721 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,080 Speaker 1: to check out other episodes of stuff to blow your mind, 722 00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:30,239 Speaker 1: you know where to find us, and that is wherever 723 00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,200 Speaker 1: you get your podcast, wherever that happens to be. What 724 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:37,239 Speaker 1: strange service you depend on for your podcast delivery, Just 725 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,239 Speaker 1: make sure you rate, review, and subscribe because that really 726 00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:42,600 Speaker 1: helps us out in the long run. Huge thanks as 727 00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:46,200 Speaker 1: always to our excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If 728 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:47,759 Speaker 1: you would like to get in touch with us with 729 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,400 Speaker 1: feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest a 730 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:52,560 Speaker 1: topic for the future, or just to say hello, you 731 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,440 Speaker 1: can email us at contact at stuff to Blow your 732 00:41:55,440 --> 00:42:05,880 Speaker 1: Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production 733 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:08,640 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, 734 00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,560 Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 735 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:25,120 Speaker 1: you're listening to your favorite shows.