1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,719 Speaker 1: Family Secrets is a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 2: Cussing and loud noises terrify me even today. They make 3 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 2: me feel like I'm picking at a knot above my 4 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 2: skill level to untangle. Then I feel the knot in 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 2: the back of my neck, Then in my back I 6 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,920 Speaker 2: touch them sometimes these knots and feel two thoughts spring 7 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 2: from them, as they did that night on the balcony. 8 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 2: One is a potent mix of fear and anger, wanting 9 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 2: the person who scares me to die, wishing to transfer 10 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 2: my pain to someone who deserves it in my churlish mind. 11 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 2: The other voice is Amas, calmly chanting in my years 12 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 2: for as long as it takes my breathing to return 13 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:49,520 Speaker 2: to normal, for the not to release. Where you come 14 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:51,840 Speaker 2: from does not have to be who you become. 15 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: That's Zarah Chowdry, writer and lucky at the University of Wisconsin, 16 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: an author of the recent memoir The Lucky Ones. Zara's 17 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: is a story of a family's life lived at the 18 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: intersection of political upheaval, violence, racism, and one young woman's 19 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 1: courage and tenacity in the face of some very rough odds. 20 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:23,559 Speaker 1: It's also a story of the enduring power of love. 21 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: I'm Danny Shapiro, and this is family secrets, the secrets 22 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 1: that are kept from us, the secrets we keep from others, 23 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: and the secrets we keep from ourselves. 24 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 2: I grew up in the city called Ahmedabad, which is 25 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 2: the biggest city in the westernmost state of India called Gujad. 26 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 2: It's a state that borders Pakistan on one side and 27 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 2: then it has the Arabian Sea to the south. Now, Ahmadabad, 28 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 2: as the name suggests, was a city that was founded 29 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 2: by a Muslim sultanate, a Muslim sultan called Ahmed Shahbadsha. 30 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 2: And that's why it was a city that had these 31 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:23,519 Speaker 2: foundations literally carved into rock. And I grew up in 32 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 2: the old part of the city across this river Sabermati 33 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:31,399 Speaker 2: that ran north to south, and so the eastern part 34 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 2: of the city of Amdabad was all the old established 35 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:38,239 Speaker 2: ways of the sultanate. Even as I grew up, you 36 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,399 Speaker 2: could see the remains of the fort. There were these 37 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 2: incredible giant doors, really ornate and beautifully carved out of 38 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 2: stone and rock, from which traders and saints and armies 39 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 2: just marched in and out through the centuries. The space 40 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 2: was dotted with shrines Sufi shrines that we called Arghas masques. 41 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 2: And then within this over the centuries, life had just 42 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 2: sort of sprung and grown in this layered way. So 43 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 2: you had stores, and you had restaurants, and there was 44 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,959 Speaker 2: the public school and then the little Jesuit convent schools 45 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 2: and homes that were of every shape and size, and 46 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 2: it was just this very sort of tightly knit and 47 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 2: close community that all flourished on one side of the river. 48 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 2: But as we went through the eighties and the nineties 49 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,519 Speaker 2: and the early two thousands, and India I was about 50 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 2: sixty odd years from its foundation. From its founding, this 51 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 2: city started to grow westward and across the river towards 52 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 2: the horizon in some ways. And the folks that tended 53 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 2: to move that side were mostly the majority Hindo citizens 54 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 2: of the city. And so by the time I was 55 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 2: growing up in the city, which was in the nineties, 56 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 2: and Udabad was already one of the most segregated cities 57 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 2: in India. Now, I did not understand this word or 58 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 2: this language at the time, but I do remember the 59 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 2: feeling of our side of the city, the old sort 60 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 2: of ancient side growing into a kehetto, and the one 61 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 2: on the other side sort of springing and coming alive 62 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 2: in everything that modernity had to offer. So this was 63 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:19,119 Speaker 2: an India that had just been liberalized economically, which meant 64 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 2: that there was a free market, and suddenly we had 65 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 2: important goods flooding in. And so one side of the 66 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 2: river started to chase after that, and in many ways 67 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 2: it almost felt like they were willing to leave us behind. 68 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 2: And so I grew up in this place that had 69 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 2: really parted along the lines of the river. 70 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: That's fascinating. Did you know or sense as a child, 71 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 1: I don't imagine that you had the word ghetto. Did 72 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: you have the sense that there was this segregation or 73 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 1: did that come later? 74 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 2: I think it became very obvious very early on that 75 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 2: we were the poorer side of the city, because that's 76 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 2: where the slums first established themselves along the river. And 77 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 2: what it meant then to live in these sort of 78 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 2: even more mixed societies right where you have those who 79 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 2: are working and living in the slum, those who live 80 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 2: in cooperative buildings, those who live in small tenement bungalows, 81 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 2: is that we're all kind of living cheek in general 82 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 2: in this way that is just tight and suffocating, And 83 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 2: so I might not have had the word ghetto at 84 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 2: the time, but I had the word slum. I had 85 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 2: the word narrow lanes and gullies, and so we were 86 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 2: very much defined by this very constrained geography. 87 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 1: So in your home, this Jasmine apartment C eight, there 88 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 1: are quite a few people living in your family home, 89 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: which was usual right where extended families would live together. 90 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 2: That's correct, yes, And the same sense of suffocation that 91 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 2: one could feel emanating from the outside was very much 92 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 2: how the household also built. We lived in this apartment building, 93 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 2: ten story stall. We were on the eighth floor. We 94 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 2: had what some would call a magnificent view of the 95 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 2: river and the city across and all the bridges across 96 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 2: of it. But inside the house there were three generations 97 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 2: again living in this tightly packed unit. There was my grandparents, 98 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 2: my dad's parents. There was my parents, and then my 99 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:23,919 Speaker 2: dad's younger sister who was divorced and had moved in 100 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 2: with us with her only child. So her daughter, me 101 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 2: and then my younger sister, we were the three children 102 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 2: in the house. And then you had these three generations 103 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 2: that were all also similarly buying for their little piece 104 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 2: of the sky. They were all buying for space and 105 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 2: importance and clarity as to their roles. And so we 106 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 2: grew up in a place where it was on the 107 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 2: one hand, incredible to have just constant access to your grandparents, right, 108 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 2: and they're just bounds of history and wisdom. But at 109 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 2: the same time there's also biases, and there's constant pettiness, 110 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 2: and there's constant balancing of deep affection with dense jealousy 111 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 2: and envy. 112 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: Tell me about Ama, your mother. 113 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 2: So my mother, Roxana, who I call Ama, she came 114 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 2: from the southern part of India. She came from a 115 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 2: coastal city called Madras, which is we now call it Chene. 116 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 2: And she came from an army family. Her father was 117 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 2: a major in the Indian Army for all of his career, 118 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 2: and so she grew up almost this vagabond way where 119 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 2: they were moved around every two years. And so she 120 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 2: had lived everywhere from up in the Himaliyas and Kashmi 121 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 2: to down at the very end of India and Trivandrum 122 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 2: where you can just see the Bay of Bengal and 123 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 2: the Indian Ocean. From there, she had lived on the 124 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 2: Mango coast on the western side. She had lived in 125 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 2: the center of India where you got great oranges, and 126 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 2: so she had had this incredible rich life for the 127 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 2: first few years or early years where she had just 128 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 2: bounced around and met all these different cultures and languages 129 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 2: and foods and people in the army. But then she 130 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 2: also lost her father when she was thirteen, and that 131 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 2: changed the fortunes of her family. Her mother instantly sort 132 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 2: of crumbled under widowhood in a way that a lot 133 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 2: of women in India did, at least in that generation. 134 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 2: And she took on this burden on her very sort 135 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 2: of nimble shoulders at the time of becoming the face 136 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 2: of the family. And what that meant was that she 137 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 2: suddenly felt like the honor of the family, its pride, 138 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 2: its sense, and dignity all rested on her. That's a 139 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 2: huge burden for somebody who's twelve or thirteen to carry 140 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 2: on their shoulders. And she had decided at a very 141 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 2: early age that she was going to do everything the 142 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 2: right way, including go to college for a a sort 143 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 2: of checklist career that would just get her a good husband, 144 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 2: should marry into a good family, and that's how she 145 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 2: ended up meeting my father through a marriage proposal in India, 146 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 2: we had arranged marriages. A relative or a family friend 147 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 2: might introduce you to somebody that they think is a 148 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 2: good match for you. And so this was a relative 149 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 2: who knew this family in Ahmadabad, Gudrat, thousands of miles 150 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 2: away from where my mother was living in the south, 151 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 2: and they just happened to know them and thought that 152 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 2: they were incredibly suave and sort of you know, this 153 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 2: liberal educated Muslim family. Everybody served in the government. The 154 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 2: son had gone to America and had an MBA, and 155 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 2: he was tall and strapping and handsome, and my mom 156 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 2: was a very tall woman for Indian culture, and she 157 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,439 Speaker 2: had been told growing up that this was not an advantage. 158 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 2: She was also dark for somebody in a culture that 159 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 2: really values light skinness, and so this became a burden 160 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 2: that she was already silently caring. And so when this 161 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 2: marriage proposal came of this fair, tall, handsome foreign educated 162 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 2: government servant, it seemed like the perfect match for someone 163 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 2: like her. My dad was the most quirky human that 164 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 2: I will ever know in my life. And it is 165 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:11,679 Speaker 2: strange to say that now in retrospect, because at the time, 166 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 2: growing up in his shadow, it felt like my father 167 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 2: was a monster. My dad was the oldest child of 168 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 2: a public servant. His mother came from a sort of 169 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 2: almost aristocratic family in Amadabad who had sort of old 170 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 2: money and had a very wide social network, and so 171 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 2: he had grown up essentially with a silver spoon in 172 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 2: the fifties and sixties, which is many people think of 173 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 2: that as India's golden period in terms of, you know, 174 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,439 Speaker 2: we had great cinema happening, There was so much social 175 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 2: upliftment for people. We had all these big projects going 176 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 2: on that were going to really transform the country. It 177 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:50,680 Speaker 2: was a time of a lot of hope. And my 178 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 2: dad was growing up in that time, and he was 179 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 2: growing up with that silver spoon, knowing that as the 180 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 2: only son in the household, he could ask and he 181 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 2: would receive. He straight out of college and he wasn't 182 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 2: the brightest student his sister was, but he was offered 183 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 2: the opportunity to go study in America, and so he 184 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 2: comes to California in the seventies, has the time of 185 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 2: his life for three years and meets some incredible other 186 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 2: Indian students who are also here at the same time, 187 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 2: forges these friendships that last him for the rest of 188 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 2: his life. But he's also just not what's the word, 189 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 2: he's not practical enough in the way of thinking of 190 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 2: his future. He's thought that being here, being in America, 191 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 2: he's already set that this is it, and he's made it. 192 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 2: And he doesn't go back on time the way his 193 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 2: visa stipulated he had to. And so he's brought into 194 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 2: court in California and the judge gives him two options. 195 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 2: One that he was not going to be able to 196 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 2: come back to the US for at least a decade, 197 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 2: because that's usually how long those things last. The other 198 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 2: thing it really meant was that this star son, this 199 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 2: prince of the family, had terribly and desperately failed. He 200 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 2: was supposed to go there and make a name for 201 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 2: himself and do something, and everybody else was you know, 202 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 2: this was the time of that brain drained, the first 203 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 2: round of it, when all of our doctors and engineers 204 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 2: came to the US. He was supposed to be one 205 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 2: of them. And instead he comes back with his tail 206 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 2: between his legs and he's not sure if he's going 207 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 2: to ever be able to go abroad anywhere and establish 208 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 2: a life for himself. But also he didn't come from wealth. 209 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 2: He came from social status, but he didn't come from wealth. 210 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 2: And to come back to a father who was retiring, 211 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 2: who had just bought this apartment in Jasmine, had put 212 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 2: most of his retirement savings into his young son. This 213 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 2: also meant that he had failed that investment in many ways. 214 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,679 Speaker 2: And so by the time I came along and our 215 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 2: life in the nineties sort of is the memory that 216 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 2: I have. This before time, from what I understand, became 217 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 2: really a time when that guilt and that shame became 218 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,960 Speaker 2: weaponized against him in his own household, and he was 219 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 2: constantly reminded every time everybody drank and got tipsy and 220 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 2: then started to fight in the house. This was always 221 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,679 Speaker 2: a story that came out the fact that they put 222 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 2: all their money in my dad, and my dad was 223 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 2: still back here, still working for the government, and that 224 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 2: nothing came out of that whole episode. 225 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: When your parents met, was this something that your mother 226 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 1: sort of knew and signed on for or do you 227 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: think it became something that she came to realize. And 228 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: also how long were they married before you were born. 229 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 2: They were married in nineteen eighty four and I was 230 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 2: born in nineteen eighty six. My mother also liked me, 231 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 2: and I guess before me really had pieced the story 232 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:57,320 Speaker 2: together through these drunken outbursts in our household, because the 233 00:13:57,320 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 2: story she was told when the proposal came to her 234 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 2: was here as this wonderful man who's handsome and educated, 235 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 2: and he has a foreign degree and he's working in 236 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,239 Speaker 2: the government. He will rise and will have job security. 237 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 2: This family seemed to have roots in this city. It's 238 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 2: a beautiful city with a great culture. You'll have a 239 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 2: wonderful life. And it's only when she moved to Amzabad 240 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 2: and she started to live within this household, and also 241 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 2: as she realized her place in the household, that she 242 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 2: really started to dig for this information and understand that 243 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 2: this man who was almost a decade older than her, 244 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 2: whom she had married because he looked so great on paper, 245 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 2: had all of these hidden failures and pockets of secrets 246 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 2: that nobody had bothered to tell her. 247 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 1: Sarah and her younger sister Misha absorb a great deal 248 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: of tension in the close quarters of their very crowded home. 249 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 2: So you know, looking back now, I had this memory 250 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 2: of always feeling just fear in my body, and not 251 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 2: just fear of people, but I used to feel fear 252 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 2: of the space of the apartment itself. I would not 253 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 2: want to go out into the balcony after dark. There 254 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 2: were certain darker corners of the house, but the light 255 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 2: from the lamp would just not reach, and I wouldn't 256 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 2: want to go in there. And I would just constantly 257 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 2: have these nightmares, if you know, all kinds of gnarly 258 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 2: things coming out of the walls to get me. It's 259 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 2: taken many years for me to look back at that 260 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 2: and realize that I was constantly feeling the tension of 261 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 2: the house. I knew, for instance, that at seven o'clock 262 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 2: my house transformed in the evening. And you know, you 263 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 2: would think that, oh, sundown in a Muslim household means 264 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 2: everybody will get together and pray their sundown prayers, their nammas, 265 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 2: and it's a time for piety in some ways, but 266 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 2: not in my household. In my household, the bottle opened 267 00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 2: and my dad would start to pour himself a drink, 268 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 2: and then another and another, and my grandfather would drink 269 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 2: with him, and the women of the family would sit 270 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 2: around and it would all start with jovial chatting, and 271 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 2: then as my dad would drink more and more and 272 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 2: my grandfather would stop and try to slow him down. 273 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 2: Things would just get more belligerent, and I would see 274 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 2: my mom trying to sort of recede into the kitchen 275 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 2: and watch from there. We would usually be asked to 276 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 2: go into the bedroom and play there, but we would 277 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 2: know that voices are rising, temperatures are rising outside. At 278 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 2: some point, we would hear a plate crash into the wall, 279 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 2: or we'd hear somebody take off their slipper and throw 280 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 2: it across the room, and that's when we would know 281 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 2: things had been set on fire, that we're just now 282 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 2: in the middle of a terrible dinner, that we're all 283 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 2: going to have to sit and endure and eat and 284 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 2: swallow even when everybody's see them. 285 00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: In India, indeed across South Asia, families who are able 286 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: to send children to convent schools. Being educated in a 287 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 1: convent school brings with it a social status because it 288 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: usually means students will learn British English and know how 289 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 1: to comport themselves in society. For girls, this is particularly 290 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,400 Speaker 1: the case. Coming out of a convent school means they'll 291 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: come out finished, polished in ways that make them valuable 292 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 1: for marriage. In fact, it is not uncommon for matrimonial 293 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: columns in Indian newspapers even today to refer to a 294 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: potential bride as fair, slim and convent educated. And so 295 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: it is a stroke of luck that Zara's family has 296 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: roots in Ahmedabad and three generations have been educated at 297 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: the only convent school in town. 298 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 2: My grandmother, my dad's mother, my aunt, and then my 299 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 2: sister and I and my cousin, all of us had 300 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 2: studied in this one convent school of Montgomery and the 301 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 2: school was across the So each morning there would be 302 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 2: an auto rickshaw that would stop, drive up and stop 303 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 2: at the base of our building. You would run down, 304 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 2: get into it and it would go across the bridge 305 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 2: and take us to school. And so we would go 306 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 2: in this very packed auto rick show with you know, 307 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,399 Speaker 2: little water services and bags hanging outside of it, and 308 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:19,680 Speaker 2: it was all very funny even as we were doing 309 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 2: it as children. And then we would go to school 310 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 2: where you had all of these different classes of the 311 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 2: city and it was like watching a cross section of 312 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:34,439 Speaker 2: our society, but in awkward teenage bodies and pre previous 313 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 2: and bodies and in great pinafore uniforms. So you had 314 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 2: the girls who came in the fancy sort of imported cars. 315 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 2: You had the click that came in the bus. You 316 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:45,959 Speaker 2: had the ones whose parents dropped them off on a scooter, 317 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 2: and then you had us who came in the auto 318 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 2: rickshaw from the other side of town. And even how 319 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 2: we sat and ate at lunch was very clearly marked 320 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 2: by that class. And so as much as you would 321 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:00,679 Speaker 2: think that, you know, going to school been an escape 322 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 2: for these kids, you know, they could go there and 323 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 2: just be themselves and have fun and run around, school 324 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 2: was also very clearly a place that was that had 325 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:12,360 Speaker 2: this hierarchy of class. We didn't know this at the time, 326 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 2: but there was also hints of that sort of bigotry 327 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 2: towards minorities. Even within a convent, a Catholic institution, you 328 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 2: would have teachers who would sort of point you out 329 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 2: and say, oh, aren't you that Mazzi girl from a 330 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 2: cross down and Mazzi would be Muslim. But school was 331 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 2: still a place where we did the things that really 332 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,920 Speaker 2: brought us joy to some degree. So I wrote from 333 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 2: when I was really young, and so I would just 334 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 2: stand up and read the things I wrote in class. 335 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 2: I was always the English teacher's better than nobody else's. 336 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:48,199 Speaker 2: My sister loved to dance, and so she would just 337 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 2: break into dance in the hallways, and you know, the 338 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 2: teachers would point at her and be like, oh, that 339 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 2: kid needs to be on our stage at the end 340 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 2: of the year. So it was a place for us 341 00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 2: to also show ourselves in a way that we just 342 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 2: be seen within our household. But school still had its 343 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,400 Speaker 2: own sort of micro tensions, and we were working our 344 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:09,679 Speaker 2: way through it and in a way that is not 345 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 2: unique to us. It's not a story that is only 346 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 2: this by and mind. It's the story of every single 347 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 2: human in South Asia who goes to this sort of 348 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 2: diverse and complicated school in a diverse and complicated society. 349 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: We'll be back in a moment with more family secrets. 350 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: It's February twenty seventh, two thousand and two. Zara is sixteen. 351 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 1: In the nearby town of Gujarat, a train appears to 352 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: have been set on fire. There are many casualties. At 353 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:04,120 Speaker 1: least fifty eight people have died. The state's chief minister, 354 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: Narendra Modi immediately labels this as an act of terror. 355 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: Remember where we are in time, February two thousand and two, 356 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: Just months after the attacks on the World Trade Center 357 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: on September eleventh, two thousand and one. 358 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 2: To have grown up in India in the eighties and 359 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:30,400 Speaker 2: nineties is to have known violence. There has been sectarian 360 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 2: violence and ethnic violence in sports throughout our nation's independent history. 361 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 2: And so even as I was four or five or 362 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 2: six growing up in Ambalabad, I remember for something as 363 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 2: silly as if, you know, India and Pakistan had a 364 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:48,640 Speaker 2: cricket match and Pakistan won and India lost. Everybody would 365 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 2: get upset about it and then go out and burn 366 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 2: somebody's bike and you know, start burning tires. And so 367 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 2: for me to stand on the balcony of my building 368 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 2: and look down and see people burning things because they're 369 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 2: mad because of you know, cricket match was not unusual. 370 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,160 Speaker 2: This was a place where children were already kind of 371 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 2: accustomed in some strange way to this sort of minimized 372 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 2: and normalized violence. But what happened in two thousand and 373 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 2: two is that there was a train coming into Gujrat 374 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,479 Speaker 2: to a station close to Ahmadabad from a city in 375 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 2: central India called Ayodya. It's a city that people now 376 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 2: recognize because it's been back in the news for a 377 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:33,439 Speaker 2: while with the resurgence of modin India. But Ayodya in 378 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 2: central India is known for a lot of Hindus in 379 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 2: their sort of mythological and faith imagination as the birthplace 380 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 2: of law Dram, who was one of the biggest deities 381 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 2: in the Hindu faith. In nineteen ninety two, a mob 382 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 2: of almost one hundred thousand Hindu religious workers slash volunteers 383 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 2: vigilantes had been brought there by the BJP, which is 384 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 2: the big Hindu right party in India and its many 385 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,360 Speaker 2: affiliated parties, had brought this mob of one hundred thousand 386 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:11,639 Speaker 2: angry people to a mosque that was in Ayudia, and 387 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 2: the mosque itself was about five hundred years old from 388 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 2: the Mughal dynasty. And they were so enraged because they 389 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,440 Speaker 2: had been told the story for decades by the Hindu 390 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 2: right that this place used to be the birthplace of 391 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 2: Laudram and this mosque was built on it by desecrating 392 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 2: that holy place. And so this mob of one hundred 393 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 2: thousand charges at this building and with pick axes and 394 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 2: knives and stones and rocks and hammers, they bring this 395 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 2: whole ancient monument crashing down. And as they do it. 396 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 2: This new starts to spread across India, and this is 397 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 2: in the early nineties when we don't yet have live 398 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 2: news and live televisions, certainly no Internet. But it starts 399 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 2: to trickle down into cities like mine in Mderbagh, and 400 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,640 Speaker 2: there's rioting, there's looting, there's burning in all of these places. 401 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:06,399 Speaker 2: And yet for the decade after that, it was like 402 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,679 Speaker 2: Indians did what we always did. We saw these bursts 403 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 2: of violence and then we found our way back to 404 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,440 Speaker 2: peace and we said, you know what, we believe in secularism, 405 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 2: we believe in coexistence. We're going to make this work. 406 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 2: And so we had found this tenuous piece in a 407 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 2: place like Amedabad. But a lot of these folks who 408 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 2: had initially demolished the mosque and or who believed that 409 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 2: that's the place that Lordraam was born and they wanted 410 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,439 Speaker 2: a temple there. They kept going back each year on 411 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 2: these quote unquote pilgrimages to au there. And one such 412 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 2: train of pilgrims was coming back to Ameddabad in two 413 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:46,439 Speaker 2: thousand and two in February, and on the twenty seventh 414 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 2: of February, that train with the carriages that were carrying 415 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 2: these pilgrims caught fire. This was less than six months 416 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:59,880 Speaker 2: after this language of terror and violence and terrorism had 417 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,879 Speaker 2: very clearly and closely been attached to the identity of Muslims. 418 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 2: And while America might have done it with the radar 419 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 2: pointed at the Middle East, it really had this fluctuating 420 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 2: sort of rippling effect across the globe, including in communities 421 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 2: like mine and states like mine. And so when the 422 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 2: chief Minister, who sort of like the governor for our state, 423 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 2: goes to the site of this carnage just a few 424 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,120 Speaker 2: hours after it's happened, there's been no forensic analysis, there 425 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,160 Speaker 2: hasn't yet been a full investigation, and he simply calls 426 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 2: it an act of error. That phrase alone is enough 427 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 2: to activate the hate that has been simmering underneath all 428 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 2: of this for decades. 429 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:45,400 Speaker 1: So then in fairly short order it becomes clear that 430 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: the fires that you're seeing from your balcony are not 431 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,439 Speaker 1: a minor thing. Word starts coming from all over the place, 432 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 1: from relatives in different parts of India that if you 433 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 1: are a Muslim, you are in danger. 434 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:03,920 Speaker 2: Right, And so that very evening of the twenty seventh 435 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,640 Speaker 2: of February two thousand and two, we were all sitting 436 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 2: in our apartment, and my father was just pacing up 437 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 2: and down, actually waiting for my mom to come back 438 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 2: home from the bazaar. She would do this thing where 439 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 2: she would run off to the bazaar to go grab 440 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,119 Speaker 2: a few things, but really it was her way of 441 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 2: getting away from the apartment and from all of us, 442 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 2: and she had been gone for almost three or four 443 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 2: hours at the time, and he was waiting for her 444 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 2: to come back home. What I didn't understand at the 445 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 2: time was that he was also waiting for her to 446 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 2: come back home because news of this train burning had 447 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 2: just broken out. Our usual protocol living on this side 448 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 2: of the city, in this ghetto was buy all your supplies, 449 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 2: talk up your fridge, make sure you have everything you 450 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 2: need so in case for the next two or three 451 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 2: days there's a curfew, there's a lockdown, You'll be fine. 452 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 2: You can survive, you can feed your family. And Yet, 453 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 2: when we sat down to ashually look at the news 454 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 2: that evening and my mom came back, and we realized 455 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 2: the gravity of what had happened, the fact that these 456 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 2: were religious pilgrims, that we lived in a state, whether 457 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 2: Hindu rites were in power, this language of terror was 458 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 2: already circulating, and there was news that the bodies of 459 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 2: these folks who had perished in the carnage were going 460 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,640 Speaker 2: to be then paraded in a convoy across the state 461 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,400 Speaker 2: and brought to Mzabad. We knew in our bones that 462 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 2: this was not going to be like any other violence 463 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 2: or any other spurt of rioting, that this was going 464 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 2: to be something bigger. And so the very next morning, 465 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 2: as I woke up in a city that was under curfew, 466 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 2: I knew that a curfew usually means nobody steps out. 467 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,639 Speaker 2: There's usually shoot at side orders, or at least there's 468 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 2: police all around, and you can't step out to your street, 469 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 2: you can't go buy anything. The shops at close schools 470 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 2: are shut. And I remember walking out onto the balcony 471 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 2: of our apartment, and that balcony really was the place 472 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 2: room where I could see the whole city. And I 473 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,879 Speaker 2: suddenly start to see these spirals of smoke across the 474 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 2: river but also on our side of the river. And 475 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 2: that's when I know that the burning has started, that 476 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 2: for sure, there are not only other people riding on 477 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 2: the street, but that this is very clearly now about 478 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 2: the Muslims, and it's about punishing the Muslims for the 479 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 2: thing that has been done to the dream. 480 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 1: In a home already so full of simmering tension that 481 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: simmer comes to a boil as terror, violence, and fear encroaches. 482 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 1: By this point, Zara's grandfather has already passed away, so 483 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 1: he is not witnessed to this catastrophe. But their home 484 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: is as crowded and tense as always, and now they're 485 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 1: not just crowded, they're trapped under curfew, and all of 486 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: this at an especially tender time for Zara. She's just 487 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: about to take her board exams. In many ways, this 488 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 1: would have been her ticket out. 489 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 2: It's so interesting that that year when this happens is 490 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 2: my tenth grade, and in the tenth grade in India, 491 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 2: you have to give these exams, these very big major 492 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 2: exams an end of yeer are called the boards, and 493 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 2: the boards essentially allow you to decide if you can 494 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 2: go into the sciences or the humanities, or hammer or whatever. 495 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 2: And so in many ways their career defining for us. 496 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 2: And there's a lot of pressure on these exams, and 497 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 2: for me, these exams were actually about to happen within 498 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 2: a week to ten days from that day when the 499 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 2: train burned, and so up till that day, I was 500 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 2: really with my nose deep inside textbooks, just waiting to 501 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 2: sort of memorize all of this and go give my 502 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 2: exams and you know, vomit it all out on an 503 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 2: exam paper somewhere and get some sort of decent grade, 504 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 2: get to the next level in my eleventh and twelve, 505 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 2: go off to college, just get the hell out of here. Instead, 506 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 2: what happens is now we're stuck in curfew. My aunt, 507 00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 2: who had moved out to an apartment across the city, 508 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 2: move back in with her daughter, and with the boards 509 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 2: postponed indefinitely, no idea when they're going to happen, and 510 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 2: all of us just sort of waiting and holding our 511 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:16,959 Speaker 2: breath each night. It becomes this atmosphere of knowing what 512 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 2: it feels like to be prey, to be hunted. And 513 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 2: it's striking to me to remember now that that's also 514 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 2: the year when we were actually taught about the Holocaust 515 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 2: in India. Just a year ago previous to this, my 516 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 2: history teacher had actually given me the Diary of Ann 517 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 2: Frank as a gift because she saw how I love 518 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 2: to write, and she saw how I was just so 519 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 2: involved in learning about what had happened to the Jews 520 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 2: in Germany and across Europe. And I remember, even through 521 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 2: those early days of the lockdown, sort of looking at 522 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 2: that copy of that book and lying in our living 523 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 2: room on a little couch there with that book, and 524 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 2: just not knowing how my life had suddenly become this weird, 525 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 2: strange parallel to what that young girl was feeling in 526 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 2: that Suddenly it felt like there was a microscope somewhere 527 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 2: and on a strip there were people like me that 528 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 2: were going to be studied and looked for because we 529 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 2: were looking and we were listening to these stories of 530 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 2: mobs rampaging the streets with lists in their hands, knowing 531 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 2: which homes are Muslims, which businesses are Muslim, who is 532 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 2: married to a Muslim, whose child is dating a Muslim, 533 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 2: and how they could go around nabbing exactly that person 534 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 2: they were looking for, in many cases really checking to 535 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 2: see their circumcised or not, and then burning them alive 536 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 2: on the street. So it became this way of understanding 537 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 2: that the way you look, the name, you carry, the 538 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 2: identity markers on you have already marked you as a target. 539 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 2: And to then just sit in this apartment with nowhere 540 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 2: to go, nowhere to run, and every few days to 541 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 2: hear these mobs of people trying to break into your neighborhood, 542 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 2: break through the police barrier, really just wanting to get 543 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,480 Speaker 2: their hands on you. It was that sort of terror 544 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 2: that goes on to live in your bones. 545 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 1: That period of time. How did it act upon your father, 546 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: your parents? There's a scenario in which that it could 547 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 1: have brought them closer together, where your father could have 548 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 1: been drinking less, or your grandmother could maybe have been nicer. 549 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 1: I mean, how did it act upon them during that 550 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 1: time when you were so completely trapped with them. 551 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 2: There's this funny thing about how when somebody controls them 552 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 2: out of oxygen you can have, then everybody is going 553 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 2: to fight to breathe, right, And that's sort of how 554 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:51,479 Speaker 2: it felt in that house, So like we were all 555 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 2: sort of fighting to breathe and live a little longer, 556 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 2: and sometimes fighting each other. And we had been doing 557 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 2: that for years in many ways, just sort of you know, 558 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,880 Speaker 2: wanting to be seen in this household that didn't seem 559 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 2: to fully see anyone. But during the lockdown, it felt 560 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 2: like there was this both sides. On the one hand, 561 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 2: there was solidarity where all of us women, my aunt, 562 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 2: my cousin, my sister, my Moham, and I we would 563 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 2: just sort of get together on the bed in the 564 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 2: night and we would be massaging my aunt's feet she 565 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 2: had very close veins that were really painful, and laughing 566 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 2: and giggling and trying to feel better about our circumstances. 567 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 2: And then there would be other times where just because 568 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 2: we couldn't have enough milk in the house and my 569 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 2: dad couldn't have his full glass or his full cup 570 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:43,240 Speaker 2: of chie or my grandmother couldn't have eggs the way 571 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 2: she wanted, that would just be uproar over breakfast. And 572 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 2: so that's kind of dissonance, you know, not recognizing that 573 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 2: you're in the middle of an active annihilation and you're 574 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 2: still kind of being petty and we're all picking on 575 00:33:55,640 --> 00:34:00,280 Speaker 2: each other in these ways. But despite that, I thinking 576 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 2: that there was this external force and this exterminating force 577 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 2: that was looking at us as just vermin as people 578 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 2: to be cleansed out of here. It did bring us 579 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:16,880 Speaker 2: a sense of safety in just seeing other people around 580 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 2: us alive through those days. I think as much as 581 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 2: I had this history of really having a very antagonistic 582 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 2: relationship with my grandmother. She hated me, I hated her 583 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 2: for most of my growin years, and yet there would 584 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,760 Speaker 2: be delight in just seeing her do the most basic 585 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 2: things every day. You know, she would wake up and 586 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:38,920 Speaker 2: put curlors in her hair in front of the mirror 587 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:42,240 Speaker 2: and hum a song and still wear her lovely chiffon, sorry, 588 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,719 Speaker 2: and wear her string of pearls, and still sit even 589 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 2: within this massacre. And to see her do those basic 590 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 2: routine things on a daily basis. I remember watching her 591 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 2: sometimes in front of the mirror and saying, well, this 592 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:56,760 Speaker 2: is what it feels like to be alive. 593 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:29,360 Speaker 1: We'll be right back. In April, curfew is slightly lifted 594 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,280 Speaker 1: and the boards get announced again, but tensions are so high. 595 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,239 Speaker 1: There's concern that this invitation to take the boards is 596 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: a trap and that Muslim students who show up will 597 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:43,480 Speaker 1: be targets. But Zara is determined because her future depends 598 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 1: on performing well on these boards. Azara is contending with this. 599 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,360 Speaker 1: She also overhears her mother on the telephone. She catches 600 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 1: something about Madras and realizes her mother is plotting her 601 00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 1: own escape. 602 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,480 Speaker 2: So to understand the plot to escape, you actually have 603 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 2: to understand where my father was at this point. So 604 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 2: my father had come back from America in the eighties 605 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 2: after his big debacle and not taken up a job 606 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 2: in the Gujarat government in their electricity board, and he 607 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 2: very quickly understood that his Muslim identity was not really 608 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:28,919 Speaker 2: welcome in this workplace. And throughout the years growing up 609 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,439 Speaker 2: and through those evenings of watching him frustrated and sort 610 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:37,200 Speaker 2: of given to alcoholism, the one thing we had understood 611 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 2: is that the electricity board when my father worked, was 612 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:45,279 Speaker 2: a place that was perpetuating slow violence on this man. 613 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:50,000 Speaker 2: That every day he came back from work diminished and 614 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,920 Speaker 2: degraded and made to feel like a second class citizen 615 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:58,920 Speaker 2: at his own workplace. And so just the year before 616 00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,920 Speaker 2: the violence broke out in two thousand and two, my 617 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 2: father had taken quote unquote voluntary retirement from the government. 618 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:11,799 Speaker 2: Now there's a whole story to how much that arm 619 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,240 Speaker 2: had been twisted to get him to take that voluntary 620 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:18,720 Speaker 2: retirement and leave. But for a man who had had 621 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 2: twenty years in service in public service and who had 622 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 2: really thought that he was following in his father's footsteps, 623 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 2: he was doing the right thing. He was doing what 624 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,360 Speaker 2: was expected of him. That was a blow that he 625 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:35,320 Speaker 2: never recovered from. And so for almost a year before 626 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 2: the train even burned, I had watched my father just 627 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:43,919 Speaker 2: take a shower every morning where his pajamas again, lie 628 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,319 Speaker 2: down on the bed where my grandfather used to lie 629 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,839 Speaker 2: before he died, and just watched the fans circling over him. 630 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:51,800 Speaker 2: He was not a very religious man, so he didn't 631 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 2: know a lot of prayers and chants. But whatever little 632 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 2: he knew, he would just keep sort of repeating it 633 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 2: over and over like a children's rhyme. And this man, 634 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,920 Speaker 2: who who had been so big and towering and frightful 635 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 2: for me when we were younger, was slowly just sort 636 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 2: of shrinking into this vegetable on this bed. And so 637 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,640 Speaker 2: in two thousand and two, three months into the lockdown, 638 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:19,240 Speaker 2: when we knew that the exams were happening not happening, 639 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,400 Speaker 2: at some point they would announce them and we'd have 640 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,400 Speaker 2: to I would have to go give them. My mom 641 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:31,239 Speaker 2: had possibly just had enough, and she usually would not 642 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,439 Speaker 2: dare to ask my father for a break. She would 643 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,719 Speaker 2: not dare to ask my father for money, She would 644 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:39,759 Speaker 2: not look at him or turn to him for any 645 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 2: kind of support, because that's how their marriage had sort 646 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 2: of rotten from the inside. But this spring, as the 647 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:53,040 Speaker 2: violence outside grew, her brothers from the US called her 648 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:57,000 Speaker 2: up and they tell her on the phone that her mom, 649 00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 2: who has been living in America, is going to be visiting, 650 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:03,200 Speaker 2: and that she will be in Madras for a few 651 00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 2: months and that she would love to see the kids 652 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 2: in her And my mom doesn't tell us this. She 653 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:13,680 Speaker 2: just quietly listens to them, takes in the news that 654 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,200 Speaker 2: her mother is going to be visiting, and she's not 655 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,239 Speaker 2: usually allowed to go see her mom. It's a contentious 656 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 2: topic in our house how much my mother is allowed 657 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,880 Speaker 2: to travel by herself or go anywhere by herself. And 658 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:30,040 Speaker 2: so she just comes to us one afternoon when Miss 659 00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:31,719 Speaker 2: buy and I are sitting there sort of just trying 660 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:35,160 Speaker 2: to count down the days till my exams, and she's 661 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,319 Speaker 2: holding the phone in her hand, and she's been on 662 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,920 Speaker 2: the phone with somebody that works in the railway's department 663 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:44,719 Speaker 2: and that is a family friend and can possibly help 664 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,600 Speaker 2: us get tickets to Madras. And then I hear her 665 00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,960 Speaker 2: saying on the phone, yes, I only need three tickets, 666 00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:55,480 Speaker 2: which is astounding to me. The idea that this woman 667 00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,920 Speaker 2: would say three, and that means that my father is 668 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 2: not going, means that she is finally rebelling. 669 00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:10,240 Speaker 1: And there's another seminal instance of words overheard that shapes 670 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,560 Speaker 1: this period of time. Psara and her family. 671 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:19,000 Speaker 2: My father's mother who lived with us, really came into 672 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:22,759 Speaker 2: her own as the monstrous matriarch. I mean, there's no 673 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,600 Speaker 2: other kind of or simpler way to say it. And 674 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,200 Speaker 2: I laugh as I say this, because somewhere I've made 675 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,200 Speaker 2: her into this cartoon figure in my head to be 676 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 2: able to deal with who she was to us. But 677 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,960 Speaker 2: with my grandfather passing away, it's sort of like every 678 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,440 Speaker 2: chain that could have held her back, any sort of 679 00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,959 Speaker 2: civility that she could have had towards us, melted away. 680 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,920 Speaker 2: And one day I walked past the living room and 681 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,400 Speaker 2: I just overhear her telling my father that, oh, you know, 682 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 2: I heard Zarah told this relative of ours that she 683 00:40:55,560 --> 00:41:00,319 Speaker 2: would really like it if you and your wife and 684 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:04,160 Speaker 2: that you've got a divorce, and my heart just sank. 685 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,040 Speaker 2: This was a whole year before the riots and the 686 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:13,280 Speaker 2: fires and everything, but this was also when my father 687 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,879 Speaker 2: had just lost his job. He was already this man 688 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,239 Speaker 2: who was broken and who was lying in bed each 689 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:24,520 Speaker 2: day staring into nothingness. We were on the cusp of 690 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:29,560 Speaker 2: going off to high school and college, and we had 691 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,040 Speaker 2: just sort of found a way to remain in peace 692 00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:36,520 Speaker 2: with our father, To know that he was strange and 693 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,640 Speaker 2: didn't know how to show us his affection fully, that 694 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,319 Speaker 2: he was just not happy with the way his life was, 695 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:44,880 Speaker 2: and this is all we could get in terms of 696 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:48,719 Speaker 2: fatherly love. And to hear her say those things to 697 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:53,720 Speaker 2: him in that moment, even though she had done small 698 00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,120 Speaker 2: things like this before and whispered. You know, there's always 699 00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:59,520 Speaker 2: a whisper network of gossip and scandal around us, but 700 00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,000 Speaker 2: just so directly walk in there and break her son 701 00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:07,480 Speaker 2: in this way. It was shattering to hear. It was 702 00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,240 Speaker 2: also terrifying to hear because I knew what would come next. 703 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:14,200 Speaker 2: I knew that it would in some ways solidify the 704 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:18,000 Speaker 2: growing paranoia in my father's head that his wife was 705 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,480 Speaker 2: going to run off and his children didn't want him, 706 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:22,600 Speaker 2: and that all of his life was going to come 707 00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:23,600 Speaker 2: down to being a failure. 708 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:32,480 Speaker 1: There is yet another complexity hovering that is invisibly hovering 709 00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:38,080 Speaker 1: over the atmosphere in Zara's home and particularly within her parents' marriage, 710 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:43,480 Speaker 1: something that has been there, deeply felt unspoken, the kind 711 00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:47,280 Speaker 1: of sorrow and grief that has the power to shape everything. 712 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,480 Speaker 1: In the two years before Zara was born, her parents 713 00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:53,839 Speaker 1: had had and lost a son. 714 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,400 Speaker 2: Growing up, I always had the suspicion, even though nobody 715 00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:01,360 Speaker 2: said these things directly in our home, but I always 716 00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:04,959 Speaker 2: had a suspicion that my father's family would have rather 717 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:09,120 Speaker 2: had boys than my sister and me. And they would 718 00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:10,759 Speaker 2: say a lot of things, you know, cover it up 719 00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,560 Speaker 2: about it. Oh, you know, girls are like gods luxury, 720 00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,799 Speaker 2: and they bring so much luck. And look at all 721 00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,280 Speaker 2: the women in our family. Everybody is so highly educated, 722 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:23,560 Speaker 2: and sisters a professor, and all of these things. But 723 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,680 Speaker 2: I just always knew, especially for my dad, in the 724 00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:30,120 Speaker 2: ways that he would light up talking about cricket to me, 725 00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:32,680 Speaker 2: and then something would die in his eyes when he 726 00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,839 Speaker 2: would see my disinterest, or the way that he would 727 00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:38,040 Speaker 2: try and teach me how to throw a ball against 728 00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,520 Speaker 2: the walls in our hallway, and then how excited he 729 00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:43,960 Speaker 2: would get if I could do it well. And it 730 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:46,960 Speaker 2: was these small ways in which I realized that this 731 00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:51,279 Speaker 2: man should have been dad to a boy, and that 732 00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:53,840 Speaker 2: instead he was stuck with two girls who he didn't 733 00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:56,920 Speaker 2: really know what to do with, and there was always 734 00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:00,840 Speaker 2: this howering sense of disappointment in our lives. But my 735 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:04,120 Speaker 2: mom had mentioned once or twice to us growing up 736 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,600 Speaker 2: about a child whom she simply called Mohammed, and Mohammed 737 00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:09,680 Speaker 2: usually is just the name you give to every new 738 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,920 Speaker 2: child at birth, and she said that there was a 739 00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,480 Speaker 2: baby before you. But you know, I didn't live, and 740 00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:19,960 Speaker 2: I didn't understand too much growing up of it. I 741 00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,440 Speaker 2: thought this was just you know, a pregnancy that she 742 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:26,640 Speaker 2: didn't fully carry, or perhaps she never really you know, 743 00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:29,400 Speaker 2: saw the baby, something went wrong as she was delivering. 744 00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:34,920 Speaker 2: But it was many years later, actually, and over many 745 00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:38,000 Speaker 2: conversations with my mother, that I'd slowly been able to 746 00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:43,160 Speaker 2: piece the story together. And the story is that, right 747 00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,840 Speaker 2: as soon as she got married to my dad and 748 00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:49,520 Speaker 2: moved to Gudhath, into this new state, this new family, 749 00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:53,120 Speaker 2: this new culture, she found herself pregnant just a few 750 00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:56,360 Speaker 2: months later. And this was a twenty one year old woman, 751 00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,360 Speaker 2: you know, just hasn't even fully graduated from college, and 752 00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,839 Speaker 2: now she finds self having a child with a man 753 00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:06,440 Speaker 2: who she's only getting to know and not fully convinced 754 00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:10,440 Speaker 2: she really likes or loves at this point, and she 755 00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:14,680 Speaker 2: goes through what is a very difficult pregnancy, and she's 756 00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,720 Speaker 2: told in her six or seventh month by the doctor 757 00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,680 Speaker 2: in Amabat that something doesn't seem right and she shouldn't 758 00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:23,359 Speaker 2: either go ahead with it or that then she needs 759 00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:25,520 Speaker 2: to sew up the lining of her uterus and take 760 00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:29,880 Speaker 2: these extra medications and injections and whatnot. And again, she's 761 00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:33,360 Speaker 2: essentially a young girl who's having these things happen to 762 00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:37,520 Speaker 2: her body for the first time. And so, as is 763 00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:40,880 Speaker 2: cultural for us, she is sent off to her mother's 764 00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:45,319 Speaker 2: house in Madras to deliver the baby, and usually the 765 00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,640 Speaker 2: ideas that the husband will come in when the baby 766 00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:51,400 Speaker 2: is born and take the family back home. And so 767 00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:54,400 Speaker 2: she goes to Madras and she's trying to be happy 768 00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:56,120 Speaker 2: and joyful about the fact that this is going to 769 00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,480 Speaker 2: be her first child, and the doctor does tell her 770 00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,520 Speaker 2: that it might be a boy, and so what a 771 00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:04,319 Speaker 2: prize that is that, you know, first shot, she's got it. 772 00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:06,440 Speaker 2: She's giving them the sun, the male air that they 773 00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:12,239 Speaker 2: want in many ways. And then she delivers. She goes 774 00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:16,960 Speaker 2: into labor and she delivers, and he does happen to 775 00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:20,160 Speaker 2: be a beautiful baby boy. And he's brought into her 776 00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:24,120 Speaker 2: arms and she gets to look at him, and then 777 00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:28,680 Speaker 2: she realizes that he has a cleft palate, and the 778 00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:32,080 Speaker 2: doctor tells her that the baby's brain is not fully developed, 779 00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:34,600 Speaker 2: and that this baby is not going to live for 780 00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:40,480 Speaker 2: more than two days. And so this woman who thought 781 00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:44,080 Speaker 2: her life had only just begun and that somehow, especially 782 00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:48,280 Speaker 2: by having this male child, it would fill with joy 783 00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:52,000 Speaker 2: and flowers, and that she would find acceptance and validity 784 00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,480 Speaker 2: and love in this man and in this family, she 785 00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:59,440 Speaker 2: is suddenly holding a child that's about to die, and 786 00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:03,000 Speaker 2: her husband not even there, the man she made this childhood, 787 00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:07,920 Speaker 2: is not around to hold her. The next day, my 788 00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:12,560 Speaker 2: father takes an emergency slight out of Ambabad, which is 789 00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,880 Speaker 2: very expensive to do at the time, flies into Madras, 790 00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:20,120 Speaker 2: and just as he lands in Madras and is driving 791 00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:22,720 Speaker 2: to the hospital, is around the time when the baby 792 00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:26,319 Speaker 2: passes away. So he never actually gets to hold his 793 00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:29,720 Speaker 2: son or see his son. And so he goes home 794 00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:33,040 Speaker 2: and he sees my mother, who's also there without child, 795 00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:38,440 Speaker 2: empty womb, just sitting there, looking completely numb and lost, 796 00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:42,759 Speaker 2: and he just goes up to her and puts his 797 00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:47,600 Speaker 2: hand on her head and on her shoulder, and the 798 00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,799 Speaker 2: way my mother tells me this now, she says it 799 00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:54,120 Speaker 2: very flippantly, because it's almost like she doesn't want to 800 00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:56,720 Speaker 2: be there sitting on that bed anymore in her memory. 801 00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:01,120 Speaker 2: But to me, it seems like man and woman that 802 00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:04,719 Speaker 2: were strangers to each other, that were put in this 803 00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:10,040 Speaker 2: life together, that made this baby. We're trying to grieve 804 00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,480 Speaker 2: a thing that they didn't even fully understand had happened 805 00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:16,440 Speaker 2: to them. And that was the only time that she 806 00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:19,920 Speaker 2: cried and my father held her, and then he never 807 00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:23,319 Speaker 2: spoke about this child ever again. I never once in 808 00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:31,919 Speaker 2: his lifetime heard him speak to me about mom. 809 00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:35,320 Speaker 1: Of course, never speaking of it again creates its own problems. 810 00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:39,040 Speaker 1: As Zara writes in her memoir, guilt made her father 811 00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:43,280 Speaker 1: a monster. The tension between her parents grew and grew 812 00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:47,600 Speaker 1: on this toxic, fertile soil. And so when Zara overhears 813 00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,960 Speaker 1: her mother on that phone call plotting her escape to Madras, 814 00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:55,719 Speaker 1: her mother is attempting to secure only three tickets for 815 00:48:55,800 --> 00:49:00,000 Speaker 1: herself and her daughters, and Zara's father, while he doesn't 816 00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:02,960 Speaker 1: his blessing does give them permission to go. 817 00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:08,520 Speaker 2: When my mother told him that she was taking the 818 00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:11,880 Speaker 2: girls and leaving and going to Madras. It was supposed 819 00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:13,680 Speaker 2: to be just for a break, just for a sort 820 00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:18,560 Speaker 2: of quiet, small little getaway, so we could just get 821 00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:21,680 Speaker 2: our brains back together and feel like full humans again. 822 00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:25,279 Speaker 2: And yet somewhere I think my father knew that we're 823 00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:31,319 Speaker 2: never coming back. And when he says, all right, you 824 00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:35,360 Speaker 2: can go. It happens on the last day of my 825 00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:40,160 Speaker 2: boards because while he was bringing me back from the exam, 826 00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:43,120 Speaker 2: he is stopped by the cops on the street. And 827 00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:46,320 Speaker 2: this is a man who takes such pride in belonging 828 00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:49,719 Speaker 2: to his land. He knows every street of the city 829 00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:52,840 Speaker 2: that he's grown up in, he knows people wherever he 830 00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:55,000 Speaker 2: goes in this city. It is a city that knows 831 00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:58,120 Speaker 2: him and loves him and owns him, and he belongs 832 00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:01,480 Speaker 2: to it. And in that say, to be asked to 833 00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:05,160 Speaker 2: get out of your car, to be searched humiliatingly in 834 00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:07,720 Speaker 2: the middle of the street, in the middle of people 835 00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:13,520 Speaker 2: watching him, and to be belittled and minimized and laughed 836 00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:16,880 Speaker 2: and walked at him and sent off on your way. 837 00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:20,279 Speaker 2: It's a thing that I didn't recognize then, But now 838 00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:22,719 Speaker 2: that I feel like I understand my father, I know 839 00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:27,839 Speaker 2: where it went and sat inside him. And how when 840 00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:30,600 Speaker 2: he came home and he said, all right, go to Madras. 841 00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:36,319 Speaker 2: That was my father saying you deserve this piece, and 842 00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:41,600 Speaker 2: you deserve to go belong somewhere, because right now none 843 00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:44,840 Speaker 2: of us belong to this place, and this place doesn't 844 00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:46,239 Speaker 2: want any of us. 845 00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:57,040 Speaker 1: Tzara's father does eventually come to Madras, but his presence 846 00:50:57,080 --> 00:51:01,040 Speaker 1: there is short lived. He returns to the Jasmin apartments 847 00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:05,080 Speaker 1: to c eight, and when Zara is nineteen, he passes 848 00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:09,839 Speaker 1: away from cancer. In the meantime, Zara has aced her 849 00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:13,279 Speaker 1: boards and finally the world opens up to her. Full 850 00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:17,200 Speaker 1: of promise and possibility, she makes her way in the 851 00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:23,040 Speaker 1: world to an innate combination of resilience, constitution, nature, and grit. 852 00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:27,560 Speaker 1: But in order to thrive, Zara also needs to sever 853 00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:32,520 Speaker 1: ties from her grandmother, who has been such a destructive influence. 854 00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:36,640 Speaker 1: So she writes a letter disowning her grandmother and sends 855 00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:40,200 Speaker 1: it to everyone in their community whose opinion matters. She 856 00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:45,360 Speaker 1: never speaks to her grandmother again, and yet Ahmedabad holds 857 00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:49,839 Speaker 1: sway over Zara and perhaps always will. She returns from 858 00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:52,840 Speaker 1: time to time to the place that she will always 859 00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:53,760 Speaker 1: carry with her. 860 00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:58,560 Speaker 2: From the day I got on that train to leave 861 00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:02,360 Speaker 2: Anderbad to everywhere that I have been in this world. 862 00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:07,040 Speaker 2: I've lived in Mumbai and Hazerabad in the UK and 863 00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:10,120 Speaker 2: in the US, and traveled across the world when I 864 00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:14,759 Speaker 2: worked in film and so on. I have carried that 865 00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:19,319 Speaker 2: feeling of being dislodged so much in my heart that 866 00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:24,839 Speaker 2: that almost feels like home. I think, knowing that there 867 00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:27,960 Speaker 2: are places in the world that might not want you 868 00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:31,080 Speaker 2: because of the lievers you carry. It could be of faith, 869 00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:33,480 Speaker 2: it could be of gender, it could be of who 870 00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:35,719 Speaker 2: you decide to love and how you choose to live. 871 00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:38,239 Speaker 2: But there are places in this world where you will 872 00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:41,120 Speaker 2: not be welcome, even if you are off that land, 873 00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:43,680 Speaker 2: even if you were born there, even if your ancestors 874 00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:48,200 Speaker 2: are buried in that land. And so I've had to 875 00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:51,960 Speaker 2: find ways to carry the land with me and within me. 876 00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:56,000 Speaker 2: And to do that, I've had to go back and 877 00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:59,000 Speaker 2: look at the parts of my own people that I 878 00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:02,560 Speaker 2: could love. I've had to look at my father and 879 00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:06,920 Speaker 2: remember how he would dance to Moster Pateli Khan's Sufi music, 880 00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:09,680 Speaker 2: and he would light up when he would hear that song. 881 00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:14,240 Speaker 2: I've had to go back and remember how incense smelt 882 00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:16,760 Speaker 2: when my grandfather took us to all these shrines across 883 00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:21,360 Speaker 2: Amberabad and prayed there with us. I make sure to 884 00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:25,960 Speaker 2: hold and wear Fabrican textile that has hand block printed 885 00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:30,560 Speaker 2: flowers that were so typical of Ambabad, where my mother 886 00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:33,200 Speaker 2: spent hours and hours in the bazaar of me showing 887 00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:35,640 Speaker 2: me how to match a pattern with the color. And 888 00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:38,960 Speaker 2: so it's in these material ways that I surround myself. 889 00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:43,759 Speaker 2: But I also have this deep, deep, deep belief that 890 00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:47,279 Speaker 2: for every breath that I take, there will be a 891 00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:49,920 Speaker 2: part of me that will always belong in the soil 892 00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:51,880 Speaker 2: of amber Bad, and that I carry the soil of 893 00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:52,880 Speaker 2: amza Bad with me. 894 00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:07,240 Speaker 1: Here's Zara reading one last passage from her remarkable memoir 895 00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:08,640 Speaker 1: The Lucky Ones. 896 00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:14,680 Speaker 2: Some days when it feels like my motherland is forsaking me, 897 00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:17,800 Speaker 2: telling me I am not hers, she is not mine, 898 00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:20,840 Speaker 2: and my soul wants to cry like an orphan child, 899 00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:25,279 Speaker 2: I remind myself that my belonging was bequeathed to me 900 00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:30,240 Speaker 2: by the best of mothers, my Ammah. She lost a child, 901 00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:33,840 Speaker 2: a chance at love, a life of freedom that she 902 00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:38,080 Speaker 2: chose mis by and me to empty herself into. We 903 00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:41,760 Speaker 2: own everything that is great and beautiful and redeemable about 904 00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:47,120 Speaker 2: our country. It's humor, it's refuge, it's magnanimity, its humility, 905 00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:50,799 Speaker 2: its ability to bend and absorb every shot of grief 906 00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:54,520 Speaker 2: thrown its way, and from it to grow flowers, to 907 00:54:54,600 --> 00:55:23,360 Speaker 2: meet life. 908 00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:29,000 Speaker 1: Family Secrets is a production of iHeartRadio. Molly Zaccur is 909 00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:32,200 Speaker 1: the story editor and Dylan Fagan is the executive producer. 910 00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:35,440 Speaker 1: If you have a family secret you'd like to share, 911 00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:38,280 Speaker 1: please leave us a voicemail and your story could appear 912 00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:41,719 Speaker 1: on an upcoming episode. Our number is one eight eight 913 00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:45,920 Speaker 1: eight Secret zero. That's the number zero. You can also 914 00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:50,879 Speaker 1: find me on Instagram at Danny Ryder. And if you'd 915 00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:53,400 Speaker 1: like to know more about the story that inspired this podcast, 916 00:55:53,800 --> 00:56:20,759 Speaker 1: check out my memoir Inheritance. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 917 00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:24,400 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 918 00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:25,400 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.