1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: to the show Ridiculous Historians. As always, thank you so 3 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Today's episode is especially dedicated to 4 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: I Luri files a word I just learned that means 5 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: lover of cats. Ben, I thought you were about to 6 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 1: say a word I just made up, but it sounds 7 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 1: too fancy and science e for that to be the case. 8 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,480 Speaker 1: I don't know this word either, Ben, Yeah, yeah, it's 9 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: uh a I l u r O file. Also a 10 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: cat fancier we've got. We've got a bunch of fans 11 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:06,639 Speaker 1: of cats, dogs, pats, animals in general in the crowd 12 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 1: today and notes here uh that my pal Nolan I 13 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: are ourselves cat owners. So this will necessarily be a 14 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 1: two part episode. You know, there's always been this kind 15 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: of I would say, a false divide between dog lovers 16 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:25,320 Speaker 1: and cat lovers. There are some people who feel like 17 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: those things are mutually exclusive, but nol I um. I 18 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: see it in some people, but usually I disagree. I think. 19 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: I think, especially the rise of the cat memes and 20 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: videos online, have have done a lot for the reputations 21 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: of our feline friends. What would you say I would 22 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 1: agree with that, and Ben, I was reminded just the 23 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: other day of a little brief period in cat internet 24 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: meme video culture where people were spooking their cats with cucumbers. 25 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: We can, guys remember this. That seemed to be a 26 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: very universal reaction. Cats would not not only gets spooked, 27 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: they would just jump straight up in the air. I'm 28 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: assuming that they thought it was a snake or something 29 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: like that. But uh yeah, I don't know why that 30 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: popped out from my my mental index the other day, 31 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: but I went and looked at like a nice super 32 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: cut of all of them, and then sure enough, every 33 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: single cat jumps straight up in the air. But it's true, Ben, cats, 34 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: the internet has really made cats kind of a universal thing, 35 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: whether it's like your grumpy cat, you're a little bub 36 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: remember a little Bub when we were in by Discovery 37 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: Channel because he was technically our our coworker. Yes. And 38 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 1: while you're on the Internet, by the way, you can 39 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: also go to t Public and check out our ridiculous 40 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:38,959 Speaker 1: history swag featuring a T shirt with none other than 41 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: super producer Casey Pegram Casey I, I don't want people 42 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: to equate you with little Bub. We we make high 43 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: quality memes here at ridiculous history. Only the best memes here, 44 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: only the best. Yeah. For the longest time I thought 45 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: it was little bubbs, but is not plural. Who's just 46 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:58,239 Speaker 1: a single bub um? But you know, the thing about 47 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: cats too is the expression in cats comes to mind 48 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: as possibly a good argument for why maybe cat shows 49 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: aren't as much of a thing as dog shows. Dogs 50 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: can be trained, they prance around on command. They're much 51 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,519 Speaker 1: more beholden to their masters. Cats are kind of notoriously 52 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,359 Speaker 1: fickle and kind of do whatever they want. And I'm 53 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:19,679 Speaker 1: assuming there still are cat shows, but you don't really 54 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: hear about them in the same way as you would, like, say, 55 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: the Westminster dog show. But it turns out that there is. 56 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: We can pinpoint the world's very first cat show. Uh. 57 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 1: And it wasn't held in Westminster, mind you, but it 58 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: was held at the St Giles Fair in Winchester, also 59 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 1: in England. In it's true, uh, we we don't know 60 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: much about this first cat show other than that date. 61 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: In fact, some historians challenge whether it occurred at all, 62 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: but we know that and the following years other cat 63 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: owners may have hosted a similar somehow lesser known of 64 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: the the event that finally put cat shows on the 65 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 1: map was a national competition at London's Crystal Palace in 66 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: eighteen seventy one, and a huge reason for feline popularity 67 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 1: in the UK after that time was a man named 68 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: Harrison Weir. He was an artist. He was also the 69 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: father of cat fancy. That is his that is his name, 70 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: That's how he's known. He is responsible for writing the 71 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:35,679 Speaker 1: first pedigree cat book, which with the lovely title Our 72 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,280 Speaker 1: Cats and All About Them. He also founded the UK 73 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 1: National Cat Club. You know the thing with breeding animals 74 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 1: and dog shows and oh there's also a contest for 75 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 1: like the most beautiful goat in some country. I can't 76 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 1: remember which one. Uh. The thing about those all those 77 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:57,039 Speaker 1: shows is they set standards for specific cat breeds. So 78 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: like a Persian cat, then it's this quantifiable list of 79 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: things that make them the most persian of cats? Or 80 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: what's the most the most jellical of cats? Right? Am? 81 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: I getting that right? Jelical the jelical cats the most 82 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: absurd concept in all of Broadway musical history. What does 83 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: it even mean? What? What is a jelical cat? Nobody knows? 84 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: I watched the first, not the entirety, but maybe the 85 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: first segment of the live action Cats. Have you guys 86 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,159 Speaker 1: seen it? Yeah, it's nightmare fuel. My friend, it is 87 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:36,720 Speaker 1: uh not good? A and and dare I say actively uncomfortable? 88 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 1: You know, like I'm a I'm a proponent of personal 89 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 1: liberty in many situations. So even if drugs aren't for me, 90 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: I think it's fine for people to experiment. I just 91 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: don't think it should affect your work. Yeah, that's true. 92 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: What's the guy's name, Toby something? Tom Hooper is his name? 93 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: Odd choice with that one. He really went down the 94 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: Broadway rabbit hole. The King's speech was a fine little film, 95 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: and then like his lame is is quite good actually, 96 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: but this was just he really jumped the cat on 97 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 1: this one. And can you imagine if they had left 98 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: the butt holes in? I want to see that cut. 99 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: That's apparently a cut where the weird anthromorphized over sexualized 100 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 1: cat people have cat butt holes. I heard that. I 101 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: heard that from one of my friends who who got 102 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,039 Speaker 1: a little bit steamed with me because he saw cats 103 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: in the theater. Remember this came out pre pandemic, and 104 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: I was roasting him about it, and it's like, you 105 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: secretly love this film and he said, no, here are 106 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: some facts about it. And he's the one who hitped 107 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: me into the uh the infamous butt hole at it, 108 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: which is sort of like the Snyder at It of cats. Exactly. 109 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: It's very it's it's it's gonna come out eventually. I 110 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: saw in the theater Sto by the way, with my 111 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: kid and both of the Throughout the whole thing, we 112 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 1: were just looking at each other like uncomfortably, just like 113 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: what even as this? But you know, I can't. I 114 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: won't walk out of a movie no matter how unbearable 115 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: bad it is. But here's the thing, Cats, the musical 116 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: uh has always kind of had a bit of a 117 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,559 Speaker 1: bad rap. Uh. It's very very very popular, but very 118 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: perplexing a lot of people that don't get it. It's 119 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: a little odd, it's not you know, it's it seems 120 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: like the kind of Broadway show that was very much 121 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: the product of the time and cocaine. Um, I'm gonna argue, 122 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: but you know it made a lot of money as 123 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: a little longest running Broadway shows in history. Cats as 124 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: a species also got a bit of a bad rap 125 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: throughout history, didn't there, That's right? And you know, staying 126 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: on cats, the adaptation for just one moment. My primary 127 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: question watching this, I want to open this to the 128 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: rest of our fellow ridiculous historians, is uh, what would T. 129 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: S Elliott think? Would he dig it? Would he be 130 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: like four point five stars? Where where the buttholes? I 131 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: don't know. Question lost to history. But you are you 132 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 1: are right about cats. No, they've been a divisive creature 133 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: in human culture. Uh. Part of their behavior can be 134 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: explained by the act that cats appear to have domesticated themselves, 135 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: rather than having being bred into domestication the way wolves 136 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: eventually were bred into dogs. Yea further proof that they 137 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: do not need us, right right, Well, it's just human beings, 138 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: being a relatively filthy species generated a lot of trash, 139 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: which generates a lot of vermin, which works out for 140 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: cats anyway. We know that cats have gone through ups 141 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: and downs in their career. They have been at times 142 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: lauded as sacred beings, and they have been also, you know, 143 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: the subject of much mistrust. In ancient Egypt, people loved cats. 144 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 1: This is proven conclusively in the archaeological record. In fact, 145 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 1: a fund thing I learned recently the word for cats 146 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: in ancient Egyptian was now or like now m au. 147 00:08:56,000 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: Really that's where the automotopeia of a cat sound came from. Huh, 148 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 1: there's some meme out there, you guys got to see it. 149 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 1: Where where you learned the ancient Egyptian word for cat 150 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: was now? And it's like you pickture, an ancient Egyptian 151 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: saying what the heck are you? A cat goes and 152 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 1: they go all right, yeah, well you see they even 153 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: named themselves totally don't need us. We are absolutely an afterthought. 154 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,199 Speaker 1: But the the Egyptians did need cats, that's the thing, 155 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: much more than the cats needed them, because they were 156 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: basically worshiped, right though. There are many of their goddesses 157 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: and and and the pantheon of like Egyptian kind of 158 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: uh deities had anthropomorphic animal type features. And bass Debt 159 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: was an ancient Egyptian goddess of love who had the 160 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: head of a cat. So therefore, the killing of a 161 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: cat in Egypt was a big no no uh, it 162 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:55,319 Speaker 1: would actually be punishable by death. I'm pretty sure a 163 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: lot of things in ancient Egypt were probably punishable by death, 164 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: but killing a cat was definitely one of them. Absolutely, 165 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: And this, uh, this care for cats was something that 166 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 1: ancient Romans would have recognized. Their love of felines was 167 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 1: a little bit more secular because cats were seen as 168 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:20,839 Speaker 1: a symbol of liberty, and then even more practical the 169 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: further east yougo. In the Far East, cats were considered 170 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: valuable to society because they hunted rodents that could otherwise 171 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 1: damage manuscripts and documents. Uh. And then for some reason, 172 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: cats got a really bad image in Europe during the 173 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: Middle Ages. You know what we're talking about black cats, 174 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 1: which is black mass Yeah, the old the old image 175 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 1: of the cats is like which is trusty familiar. Uh. 176 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: The idea that they were somehow a liaison, you know, 177 00:10:54,320 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: between the the practitioner of black magic and the devil himself. Um. 178 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: So this was a time, this is basically a cat 179 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:08,079 Speaker 1: apocalypse where they were just killed left and right. Um, 180 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: in a completely misplaced effort to you know, vanquish evil. Right. 181 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: And when I say misplaced, I mean not only ideologically 182 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: but also practically, because it caused the rodent infestation to 183 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 1: absolutely swell and lead to you got it, the black flag. 184 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: This dislike of cats continues in Europe for some time. 185 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: You can read no small amount of dissertations arguing various 186 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 1: various reasons why cats got such a bad rep in 187 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: this part of the world. Over at the Boston Globe, 188 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: in the article The Crazy History of the Cat Lady, 189 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: they point out that some scholars argue cats have been 190 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: part of households as pest control since humans settled into 191 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 1: the agricultural era. That's true, but they remained aloof and 192 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:08,439 Speaker 1: because they were not domesticated or assimilated into the social 193 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: hierarchy the same way dogs were, this may have upset 194 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 1: the Christian hierarchical ordering of life on Earth at the time, 195 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: which was like man at top and then other things. 196 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: Uh So, cats who were kind of in this liminal 197 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: space between the wild and the domestic, we're always going 198 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:30,199 Speaker 1: to be a little bit suss. Also, we should mention, 199 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: speaking of a more brutal time, Noel, when you said 200 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: a lot of things may have gotten you the death penalty. 201 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:40,079 Speaker 1: In Egypt, a lot of animals were frequently tortured or 202 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: killed for sport. So people who were overly into cats 203 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:48,559 Speaker 1: we're also seen as kind of suss, Like, hey, we 204 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: we torture these things for fun. You're you're getting real 205 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 1: weird agnes or tobias or whatever, which is strange because cats, 206 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 1: like you said, throughout history have always served a really 207 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: functional role. Uh. Even in the Middle Ages they killed vermin, mice, 208 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: rats and the like, things that would have potentially contaminated 209 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: people's food supply or water or just you know, they're 210 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: kind of gross and he's definitely don't want them crawling 211 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: all over your house so bad. Rap aside. Uh, cats 212 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: absolutely have always kind of like played an important role 213 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 1: because I mean, dogs, I guess we'll do that kind 214 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: of or you can train them to to do it, 215 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: but it's not something they just kind of have a 216 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 1: natural inclination doing. Cats will do it whether you whether 217 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 1: you want them to or not. I used to have 218 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 1: it indoor outdoor cat that would just constantly leave weird 219 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: speaking of cats being laisons of the devil, would leave 220 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: weird vivisected animal parts at my front stoop, like literally 221 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: almost like a staged serial killer crime scene from like 222 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: seven or something. It was quite quite horrific and terrifying. 223 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: It's only indoor cats for me from now on. There's 224 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 1: a really great quote from William cat Exton about this 225 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 1: relationship that cats have with little creatures like that, and 226 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 1: it goes the devil playeth oft with the sanar, like 227 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 1: as the cat doth with the mouse. So there you go. Hmmm, 228 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: the idea of being that cats catching mice are employing 229 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 1: tactics similar to how the devil catches human souls. It's 230 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: a bit of a leap um. You know later will 231 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: find as a species that this behavior, which is very 232 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: common in cats, this behavior of of giving mostly dead 233 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: or dead animals to their human pals, is somewhere between 234 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 1: trying to teach you to hunt, the implication being that 235 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: you suck at hunting, or trying to feed you. So 236 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: their attentions are good, but they're wildly misread, and I 237 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 1: can I can understand that like nobody's why are you 238 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: bringing me this? Um? By the twelfth century or so, 239 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 1: people really normalize this association with felines and the devil. 240 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: Around eleven eight, Walter Mapp published something wherein he examines 241 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: his ideas of Satanic rituals, and he says it goes 242 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 1: down like this. They gave it a black catch before 243 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: his devotees. Your worship was put out delight and draw 244 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: near to the place where they saw their basta. They 245 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: feared after him, and when they have found him. They 246 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: kissed him under the tail. So sorry, they're like cat 247 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: butt kissing. That's what Walter Mapp thought happened during during 248 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: these Satanic rituals. And then you would think, Okay, maybe 249 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: this is just an artifact of the times, right, maybe 250 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: this is just a fad that goes away. But it 251 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: didn't change post Middle Ages, didn't all, No, it didn't 252 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: at all. In fact, it got worse. Cats be came 253 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: even more linked with black magic and UH and witchery 254 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: and all of that. Agnes Waterhouse, who was the first 255 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: woman in England who was executed for witchcraft um in 256 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: fifteen sixty six, confessed to having a cat and keeping 257 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 1: it as a familiar, which I love that term, by 258 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: the way, familiar being just an animal kind of uh, 259 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: that you keep that a witch keeps around or or 260 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: a wizard keeps around. Uh. And you know, usually you 261 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: can use them to I almost act as like a 262 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 1: surrogate kind of like they they they'll do your bidding, 263 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 1: you know, in theory or whatever, or they'll like do 264 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: things for you, or they'll you know, potentially do things 265 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 1: you know to others on your behalf. Uh. It's interesting 266 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: and i'd love to to hear a little bit more 267 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: about the history of that term familiar. But reporting on 268 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: this at the time, UH said that Waterhouse called the 269 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: cat satan and actually said it to kill her husband 270 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: in return for feeding it her own blood. Yikes, with 271 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 1: knowing the details of their marriage, maybe it's unfair for 272 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 1: us to UH to assume that was not a deal 273 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 1: on the up and up. You know, maybe it made sense, 274 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: Maybe it made sense we had all the factors together, 275 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:17,120 Speaker 1: like maybe he had it coming. Maybe maybe Uh. So 276 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:22,359 Speaker 1: here we are, cats have already had some skyrocketing social 277 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: highs and some physically dangerous social lows. If you fast 278 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,199 Speaker 1: forward to the eighteen sixties, the average cat is considered 279 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 1: like lower working class now because they catch rats and 280 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,120 Speaker 1: you shouldn't have rats in a nice house. So there's 281 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:43,879 Speaker 1: street animals. They're considered useful because they hunt vermin, but 282 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: they're not really considered like cute, cudly companion animals. Even 283 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 1: Charles Darwin complains about them in On the Origin of 284 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: the Species, and Windsor Magazine says that they're just a 285 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: necessary household appendage. So if you think about it back 286 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:06,200 Speaker 1: at that time, snuggling with a cat would be like 287 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: having a really deep emotional relationship with your blender. It did, 288 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 1: it didn't make sense to people. They might not burn 289 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 1: you at the steak anymore, but they would be like, wow, 290 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 1: blender lady is weird. Absolutely um. And even moreover, the 291 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: fact that they were seen as unclean because of their 292 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: relationship with vermin and the fact that they always were 293 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,719 Speaker 1: killing them, one would assume that they, you know, are 294 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: covered in that same kind of filth um, which, to 295 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 1: be fair, if you have an outdoor cat, you're probably 296 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: snuggling with the cat that has you know, vivisected creatures 297 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: out in the wild. So worked to the wise there. 298 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 1: But anyway, it's interesting. As time goes on, cats become polarizing, 299 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: interestingly enough, like I mean, they kind of always already 300 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: have been a little bit, but this is really like 301 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,439 Speaker 1: takes to the next level. There's an absolute split on 302 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: people's opinions about hats in the nineteenth century. Yes, so 303 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 1: at the beginning of what we call the Victorian era today, 304 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: cats and animals in general were becoming more and more popular. 305 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:15,160 Speaker 1: If you went to a classy Victorian home, you would 306 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 1: see plants, you would see animals, and if people were 307 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: really bawling out you would see some fish. Uh. This 308 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: is also, by the way, the age where the garden 309 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 1: hermit fad took off. You guys remember that from our 310 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,400 Speaker 1: earlier episode where you just paid somebody to be weird 311 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: at your backyard just to hang out in your garden. 312 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: Very strange. That was on our Weird Flex episode. I 313 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: believe you, Yes, yes, I believe that's correct. That by 314 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 1: the way, quick sidebar, there's a there's this guy in 315 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: Japan who figured out this amazing thing. Uh. He was 316 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 1: my hero of the week a few weeks ago. There's 317 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: a guy he's working right now. I know this because 318 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 1: we're Twitter friends. He's working right now where you can 319 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 1: rent him to do nothing. He will hang out with you. 320 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 1: He will respond too simple, non philosophical questions, and he 321 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: will just sort of go do stuff that you. He 322 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: will go stand around while you do stuff. Uh, what 323 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 1: is what's what's that guy's name? Looks like it's show 324 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: Gi Morimoto. That's right, Casey on the case. So he's 325 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: like a professional like guy on the couch, he's a 326 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: professional mooch essentially. Yeah, he's a professional just hang out 327 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:34,719 Speaker 1: with you, companion person. I guess he's kind of a 328 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: professional cat any anyhow, shout out, shout out to you, sir. Uh, 329 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 1: there's a great Vice article about him, if you'd like 330 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 1: to learn more. Uh. So, there's this interesting thing. So 331 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 1: some scholars, like author Kathleen Keat, who wrote The Beast 332 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:54,719 Speaker 1: in the Boudoir pet Keeping a nineteenth century Paris, argue 333 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 1: that there's a compensation thing going on here in the 334 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 1: upper class. They're saying, at the people who are really classy, 335 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 1: the pet owners were in fact compensating for their inability 336 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: to control the lower working classes of humans. So they 337 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: would put that desire for domination into keeping pets and plants. 338 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 1: That is brilliant, What a power move. Yeah, it's like, okay, 339 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:25,120 Speaker 1: you can't you know, you can't exercise any autonomy over 340 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: your own life. So here have have this like small 341 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: creature to take care of and and exert dominance over. Uh. 342 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: That's fantastic. Um I can relate. Honestly, I think that 343 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 1: sentiment still holds true a little bit today. UM. So 344 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: here's the thing as as this kind of Oh I 345 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,360 Speaker 1: don't know, I guess you could call it renaissance of 346 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 1: of of cats, pets in general, but cats in particular. Uh, 347 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:54,360 Speaker 1: came around. There was a kind of a new movement 348 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: established um to give them, to treat them more like 349 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,159 Speaker 1: members of the family instead of just like furniture or 350 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: you know, functional kind of doers like rap exactly, rap 351 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 1: room us. Uh. This this idea of kind of imbuing 352 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 1: them with feelings and emotions and that they were like 353 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: one of us. This became a thing. In eighteen fifty 354 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 1: the Graham in law in France UH officially prohibited the 355 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 1: abuse of animals there, which is a big deal. It 356 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: seems like Doug like, that's something that we take for granted, 357 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 1: the idea of animal cruelty. But to your point Ban earlier, 358 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: in the Middle Ages and beyond, animals cats in particular 359 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:40,679 Speaker 1: were very universally tortured. Yeah. Absolutely, it was an accepted 360 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 1: fact of life. So we're going to dive into this, 361 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: where do we get this weird social thing about uh 362 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: cat ladies quote unquote. The bond between women and cats 363 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: seems to be called even more pronounced during the nineteenth century, 364 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:06,199 Speaker 1: at least in terms of uh social acknowledgement of it. 365 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:11,719 Speaker 1: So a lot of people had said that they had 366 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: said that there was something specifically between female members of 367 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:20,920 Speaker 1: the human species as they identified at the time and 368 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: cats in a History of French Passions, Anxiety and Hypocrisy, 369 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: Volume five. By the way, France, Sorry, CAZy, this is crazy. 370 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 1: There are five volumes of this. Have you ever heard 371 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 1: of this book? I have not. I'm in I'm intrigued, 372 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,199 Speaker 1: but I have to say I'm probably not likely to 373 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:43,199 Speaker 1: read it. Okay, come, I'll give you. I don't know 374 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: if I'm gonna read volume one and four. It may 375 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: prejudice us against the country. But it's okay. We can 376 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 1: just exert. We can just we can just exert. So uh. 377 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,640 Speaker 1: Theodore Zelden, the author of this book, notes that many 378 00:23:54,760 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: contemporaneous observers said women are lavishing affects in on all 379 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 1: kinds of animals, especially cats, because it's a refuge from 380 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 1: the brutality and all the all the terrible behavior they 381 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: have to accept from men. That's and that's crazily enough. 382 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: That's the positive spin. There's a negative spin here as well. 383 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: Oh boy, is there ever? And I just want to 384 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: say that this, this, this, the thing you just described 385 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,119 Speaker 1: is very much in keeping with that previous kind of 386 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 1: notion of of like lower class for example, or you know, 387 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 1: folks that don't have very much control over their lives 388 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: being able to kind of like get that out or 389 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 1: at least that frustration out by taking care of pets 390 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: and feeling like superior. This takes it into a much 391 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 1: more gendered and kind of offensive direction. Even the even 392 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 1: the nice version that you just mentioned is a little 393 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,919 Speaker 1: bit sexist, the idea that women are lavishing all this 394 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: attention on these animals because they're you know, less than 395 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:56,160 Speaker 1: or But then, you know, if you want to look 396 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,439 Speaker 1: at it in terms of the reality, I mean, it 397 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,920 Speaker 1: was a brutal time for women where men absolutely dominated 398 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 1: all aspects of society and treated women like chattel essentially. Um. 399 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 1: And of course leave it to men to to take 400 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: this and turn it an even more of a horrible 401 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: misogynist direction in saying that women and cats shared the 402 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:23,159 Speaker 1: same horrish disposition. Uh in some way they had qualities 403 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: that were compared to sex workers or prostitutes what they 404 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 1: would have called um just another way of of kind 405 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:35,120 Speaker 1: of like you know, keeping keeping women down, uh and 406 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: using this thing that might have been a nice respite 407 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: from you know, the horrors of male dominated society, uh, 408 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,679 Speaker 1: and turning it around as another way of kind of 409 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 1: mothering women and saying, yeah, of course you're hanging out 410 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: with cats. So there's there's a quote here one of 411 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:58,439 Speaker 1: worn people, this aged like milk. Uh. In eighteen fifty 412 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: five author i'll Fonse Tilsonell said, an animal so keen 413 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:08,199 Speaker 1: on maintaining her appearance, so silky, so tiny, so eager 414 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: for caresses, so ardent and responsive, so graceful and supple. 415 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 1: An animal that makes the night her day, and who 416 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: shocks decent people with the noise of her orgies can 417 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: only have one single analogy in the world, and that 418 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 1: analogy is of the feminine kind. And he goes on 419 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: and on and on. Uh. And then at the very 420 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: end he says, of whom are we writing of the 421 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: cat or the other? Meaning women? This guy must have 422 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: been a lot of fun at parties and first dates. Yeah, no, 423 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: no doubt about it. Uh. He went on to to 424 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 1: double down and added lazy and frivolous and spending entire 425 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: days and contemplation and sleep while pretending to be hunting 426 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 1: mice referring to cats. I'm assuming not women in capable 427 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,880 Speaker 1: of the least effort when it comes to anything repugnant, 428 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 1: but into fact aligable when it is a matter of pleasure, 429 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:07,120 Speaker 1: of play, of sex, love of the night. Guess, guys, 430 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:12,880 Speaker 1: a real piece of work. The other here is women yep, yep. 431 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: And then he goes on to talk about either the 432 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 1: cat or the human females, ingratitude and aridity of hearts. 433 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 1: I think I think Alphonse had some stuff to work out. 434 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 1: I think at the end he didn't know which he 435 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:34,919 Speaker 1: was accusing of what. But anyhow, this leads us into 436 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,479 Speaker 1: the idea of the crazy cat lady. So it may 437 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: have started, of course with the concept of witches and 438 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 1: familiars in the fifteen hundreds in Europe at least, but 439 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: by the late seventeen hundreds we see the emergence of 440 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: what will become the modern cat lady stereotype. Around this time, 441 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,159 Speaker 1: as many as one out of five women would not 442 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: end up being married, and again a very misogynistic time 443 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: when women were evaluated as worthy or unworthy based on 444 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: their whether or not they were married. So this was 445 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: a huge problem in England at the time. The Protestant 446 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: Reformation of the fifteen forties had made convents no longer 447 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,479 Speaker 1: really a thing. So if you are uh the the 448 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: head of a household. You can't just send your unmarried 449 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: daughters off to the convent anymore. And there's a rock 450 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: and a hard place situation, because also it's unseemly if 451 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: you're a woman for you to work. So unmarried women 452 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 1: became like the way cats were characterized earlier. They became 453 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: treated like appendages of their relatives households, and they were 454 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: called that's where they you know, they were called spinsters 455 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 1: and things like that. Uh, And they often led lives 456 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: even if they were financially well to do and didn't 457 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: have to worry about food or having shelter. Uh, they 458 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: were often living these pretty isolated, unhappy lives, you know. Yeah, yeah, 459 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: I mean it's it really is kind of a self 460 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 1: fulfilling prophecy, right. I mean, they're absolutely treated like second 461 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: class citizens. They're not given the opportunities to take care 462 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 1: of themselves, and then they ultimately become this kind of like, 463 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: uh source for ridicule, like as as as if they 464 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,239 Speaker 1: have done something wrong or as if this is like 465 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: a choice that they've made. It's it's really pretty disgusting. 466 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: So you had this kind of type emerge and and 467 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: the most iconic version historically of the cat lady is 468 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 1: someone by the name of Gertrude Savill's who lived in 469 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: the time of King George in England. Um. And it 470 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: was kind of seen as the archetype of of the 471 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: of the cat lady, and was parodied in cartoons and 472 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 1: was kind of seen as the prototypical cat lady. Moving 473 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 1: into the Victorian era, the stereotypes of the old maid 474 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 1: and like, you know, bevy of like feline counterparts became 475 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: such a kind of running gag that in an eighteen 476 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: eighty issue of The Dundee Courier. Uh, they declared that quote, 477 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 1: the old maid would not be typical of her class 478 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: without the cat, but one cannot exist without the other, 479 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: so that they were inextricably linked. Um. And you know, 480 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: cats were at this time even viewed like we view 481 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: them today, largely as being pretty pretty clever, very self involved, 482 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: again the idea of not really needing humans. But on 483 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: the other hand, the spinsters or the old maize were 484 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: seen as being somehow like kind of insane or eccentric, uh, 485 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 1: you know, having burned all their bridges and squandered all 486 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: their opportunities. Um. The term blighted hopes was used in 487 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: that Dundee Courier article, and here's here's a full quote. 488 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 1: Old maids and cats have long been proverbially associated together, 489 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 1: and rightly or wrongly, these creatures have been looked upon 490 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 1: with a certain degree of suspicion and aversion by a 491 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 1: large proportion of the human race. There's nothing at all 492 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: surprising in the old maid choosing a cat as a 493 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 1: household pet or companion. Solitude is not congenial to human nature, 494 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 1: and a poor forlorn female shut up in a cheerless garret, 495 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 1: brooding all alone over her blighted hopes there it is, 496 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: would naturally center her affections on some of the lower animals, 497 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: and none could be more congenial as a pet and 498 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: companion than a kindly purring pussy. I conjecture that etymologically speaking, uh, 499 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: this would be part of the reason, around the same 500 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 1: time that we uh, that we see the emergence of 501 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: that slang word for Jeditalia because of that association. Now 502 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 1: I was thinking the same thing, Okay, okay, I think 503 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 1: this is the perfect place to take a pause. Uh. 504 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: And and we'll resume this two parter on Thursday. In 505 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: the meantime, huge thanks to super producer Casey Pegram, Alex 506 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 1: Williams who composed our theme, Gabe Bluesier researcher Extraordinarire, big 507 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: big thanks to Christopher Hasciota's big big thanks to Eve's 508 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: Jeff co we need to have back on the show again. Uh, 509 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 1: and of course, as always big thanks to our own 510 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 1: indoor outdoor cat, Jonathan Strickland, a k a. The Quizter. Uh. 511 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: Go ahead, feel free to send some of your pet 512 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 1: pictures our way. You can find us on the internet. 513 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 1: Go to Facebook dot com type in Ridiculous Historians. That 514 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 1: is our shows community page. All you have to do 515 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: is answer a question uh, something very easy like identifying 516 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 1: super producer Casey Pegram, my pal, Noel or myself or 517 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 1: just you know, make us laugh, have a pun uh, 518 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 1: and then you can You can find the show on 519 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,239 Speaker 1: Instagram and Twitter as well. It's probably gonna be more 520 00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 1: enjoyable to follow us as individuals. That's correct. You can 521 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 1: find me on Instagram where I am at how Now, 522 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 1: Noel Brown, how about you sarn folks, cat fanciers and 523 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:09,360 Speaker 1: cat haters alike. You can find me and message me 524 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 1: or pet pictures directly. I am at Ben Bulling on Instagram. 525 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:16,840 Speaker 1: I'm at Ben Bulling hs W on Twitter. I sweird 526 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 1: that the Egyptian word for cat is now. Yeah, it's weird, 527 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 1: but also it makes too much sense. Uh. And hey, 528 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 1: while you're on the internet, when I leave a review 529 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: on Apple podcast or your podcast platform of choice, but 530 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 1: preferably Apple Podcast, it helps people discover the show and 531 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,959 Speaker 1: helps us, uh, you know, feel good about ourselves when 532 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 1: we say nice things. We'll see you next time, folks. 533 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the I 534 00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to 535 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:52,959 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.