WEBVTT - Jumping Into Crypto

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, Managing editor of Crypto for Bloomberg

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<v Speaker 1>mus And this is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily Bloomberg I

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<v Speaker 1>Heart podcast. It's Monday, July eleven. Jump Crypto burst onto

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<v Speaker 1>the scene less than a year ago with the appointment

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<v Speaker 1>of a former intern named Cannav Karia as its founding president.

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<v Speaker 1>Within just a few months, Jump Crypto has found itself

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<v Speaker 1>spending hundreds of millions of dollars, failing out market participants

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<v Speaker 1>because of a major DeFi hack and having to navigate

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<v Speaker 1>the collapse of the terra USD stable coin. But undeterred

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<v Speaker 1>by critics, Cannav Korea believes the current markets volatility is

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<v Speaker 1>the perfect time to double down. Today you'll hear from

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg reporters Katherine Doherty and Uchi Yang, who went to

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<v Speaker 1>Chicago to visit Jump's headquarters and hear about what's next

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<v Speaker 1>for the firm. Uh, Catherine, thank you so much t

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<v Speaker 1>joining me today. Katherine, before we get started, you go

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<v Speaker 1>by Kato. That is correct, Katherine Doherty, but Cato is

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<v Speaker 1>the informal reference. I love an abbreviated name. So speaking

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<v Speaker 1>of complicated abbreviations, we are going to talk a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit about Jump Crypto, which is a firm that folks

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<v Speaker 1>might have seen make headlines, including those here at Bloomberg

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<v Speaker 1>News for its involvement with furious, specific and complex parts

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<v Speaker 1>of defy with there's a big hack that we're going

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<v Speaker 1>to talk about, and of course with what's been happening

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<v Speaker 1>with the collapsed stable coin known as terra USD. But

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<v Speaker 1>before we talk about any of that, where did this

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<v Speaker 1>firm come from? So Jump Crypto is born out of

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<v Speaker 1>Jump Trading, and that is a traditional financial trading firm.

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<v Speaker 1>It really started back in Chicago, so that's where the

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<v Speaker 1>firm is still based, in the trading pit, where you

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<v Speaker 1>would execute a trade through a movement, whether it's like

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<v Speaker 1>a ignal to another trader or through yelling, just verbal communication.

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<v Speaker 1>So this is the image that people might have when

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<v Speaker 1>they've watched like old timing movies of Wall Street and

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<v Speaker 1>there's a bunch of men and suits being like by

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<v Speaker 1>so by. So that's correct. So the two founders of

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<v Speaker 1>Jump Trading came out of that world, and so they

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<v Speaker 1>were a part of the transition to electronic trading when

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<v Speaker 1>things started to move onto computers. So you go from

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<v Speaker 1>movements with your hands verbally to your screen. And then

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<v Speaker 1>there was the second transition to quantitative trading, so using

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<v Speaker 1>algorithms and and trying to figure out how you could

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<v Speaker 1>be the smartest trader out there and the fastest and

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<v Speaker 1>the fastest you're taking advantage of little price movements and

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<v Speaker 1>profiting off of that um and you're also helping the

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<v Speaker 1>whole ecosystem function. So that's traditional market making, which jump

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<v Speaker 1>trading is at its core. Flash forward to a this

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<v Speaker 1>firm launched an internship at a school in Illinois, and

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<v Speaker 1>the primary focus of this internship was on digital assets,

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<v Speaker 1>specifically the crypto world. The founders of again this traditional

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<v Speaker 1>market making firm, they started to see both an interest

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<v Speaker 1>from the outside and internally from their own employees on

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<v Speaker 1>the growth of this asset class, and they thought, Wow,

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<v Speaker 1>what a cool project that we could bring to these

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<v Speaker 1>interns and have them start to problem solve and see

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<v Speaker 1>see what they can create, see what they can come

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<v Speaker 1>up with. They were able to bridge what they had

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<v Speaker 1>developed in traditional market making executing trades with stocks and

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<v Speaker 1>equities in the crypto world. So that brings us to

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<v Speaker 1>really the start of what I see is like their

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<v Speaker 1>third chapter. So you have traditional market making. You have

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<v Speaker 1>electronic quantitative as the second and this is really like

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<v Speaker 1>their third, the third act. It's almost like the third

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<v Speaker 1>leg of the stool. And U is somebody who spends

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of time at that kind of weird intersection

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<v Speaker 1>of the traditional Wall Street moving into whatever it is

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<v Speaker 1>the crypto is up to tell me more about the

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<v Speaker 1>person who they put in charge of this, who came

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<v Speaker 1>from that very internship that Kato mentioned. Um So Kina Korea,

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<v Speaker 1>is the president of jomp Crypto, and he is actually

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<v Speaker 1>one of the interns that um worked at the U

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<v Speaker 1>I U S Lab when Jump first created this internship

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<v Speaker 1>exploring digital assets. I started as a Jump alding some

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<v Speaker 1>of the early crypto treating infrastructure. Jump has this like

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<v Speaker 1>really incredible culture of allowing people to just take opportunities

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<v Speaker 1>around with them and throwing resources being things that are working.

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<v Speaker 1>And so when I step into the leadership position, if

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<v Speaker 1>they're incredibly organic. And he's very young, but he's very

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<v Speaker 1>ambitious and very passionate about crypto in general. One thing

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<v Speaker 1>that many people described to us is they're always impressed

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<v Speaker 1>by how his knowledge, how deep his knowledge is um

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<v Speaker 1>when it comes to various cryptal projects, and as we know,

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<v Speaker 1>there's been hundreds of thousands of projects out there just

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<v Speaker 1>coming out of the past few years, and he's the

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<v Speaker 1>one who really knows ins and outs of these projects.

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<v Speaker 1>And he's now the leader of Drump's cryptal unit, and

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<v Speaker 1>he played a very important role in coming up with

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<v Speaker 1>the business strategy for Jumps cryptal unit. And this strategy

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<v Speaker 1>is what industry people say really differentiated Jump from other

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<v Speaker 1>players in the cryptal industry, and specifically DRUMP Cryptal does

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<v Speaker 1>three things. First, they started with treating, which is the

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<v Speaker 1>market making for cryptal and that plays into their strengthe

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<v Speaker 1>historically speaking. Secondly, they're also moving into investing cryptal projects

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<v Speaker 1>and tokens, and in that sense, they're kind of playing

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<v Speaker 1>as the role of the v C investors adventure capitalists. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>they're able to get in touch with the projects at

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<v Speaker 1>very early stage. They're able to buy tokens at early stage,

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<v Speaker 1>which means they can't get it at a low price,

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<v Speaker 1>and then as the project takes off as the tokens

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<v Speaker 1>value rise um, they're able to benefit from it. And

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<v Speaker 1>then lastly, they are actually moving into building some of

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<v Speaker 1>these cryptal projects themselves, just using the engineering and technology

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<v Speaker 1>talent that they have in house, and then one way

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<v Speaker 1>they facility this is to come up with the incubator

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<v Speaker 1>called the Pit, and that's essentially hacker house where they

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<v Speaker 1>invite engineers and cryptal entrepreneurs to to visit their office

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<v Speaker 1>spend a certain amount of time there to code and

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<v Speaker 1>build on these projects. So it sounds like there is

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of emphasis on tradition because you know, Kato,

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<v Speaker 1>you were saying, well, they started in the pits, and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, here's crypto and here's the pit. Why are

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<v Speaker 1>we talking about them though? Like, what what is the

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<v Speaker 1>thing that happened since I think it was September one

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<v Speaker 1>when Jump first put out this announcement about Jump Crypto two. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>obviously markets have been more down than up recently, but

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<v Speaker 1>there were a couple of really specific things that Jump

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<v Speaker 1>has been involved in that they're still bullish on crypto about,

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<v Speaker 1>but perhaps they've learned from the first time most people

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<v Speaker 1>started hearing Jump referenced as a firm was what they

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<v Speaker 1>did with a project called Wormhole. So Jump was a

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<v Speaker 1>big backer of Wormhole UM. They were early and helped

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<v Speaker 1>really developed the infrastructure behind it UM. But there was

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<v Speaker 1>a hack a very now infamous hack um that Jump

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<v Speaker 1>found out about and quickly acted on and essentially they

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<v Speaker 1>fixed this problem. There was a hole. There was a whole,

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<v Speaker 1>a whole in Wormhole. It was over three hundred million

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<v Speaker 1>dollars worth of assets that had been stolen that they

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<v Speaker 1>could not locate, and Jump within like a half hour decided, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>in order to shore up this project so that investors

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<v Speaker 1>have continued confidence in what we have helped build, we're

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<v Speaker 1>going to fill that hole, which means they took over

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<v Speaker 1>three hundred million of their own capital and replaced what

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<v Speaker 1>had been stolen so that the whole was fixed. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>my big question there is why you mentioned investor confidence.

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<v Speaker 1>But there are lots of players in crypto who were

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<v Speaker 1>exposed to Wormhole, which we want to go down a

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<v Speaker 1>rabbit hole talking about wormhole, but it's a kind of

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<v Speaker 1>you know, it's a it's a protocol in defy that

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<v Speaker 1>allows people to move crypto around, the most simplified version

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<v Speaker 1>of that that you'll hear on the podcast today, but

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<v Speaker 1>it was structurally very important and there were a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of people who were exposed. It was also one of

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<v Speaker 1>the bigger hacks in crypto at the time. You've both

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<v Speaker 1>spent time a lot of time talking to these folks, Like,

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<v Speaker 1>from their perspective, why was it so important for them

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<v Speaker 1>to show up and say it's okay, We've got this

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<v Speaker 1>under control. Well, warmth Home is one of the projects

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<v Speaker 1>that Jump really prioritizes on, and it makes sense for

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<v Speaker 1>them to step in and filling the gaps because they

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<v Speaker 1>wanted the project to survive and hopefully to thrive going forward.

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<v Speaker 1>So I think it is partial partly out of their

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<v Speaker 1>self interest to keep it alive given that they already

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<v Speaker 1>have a stake in the project, and then partly I

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<v Speaker 1>think they're trying to build out their reputation in the

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<v Speaker 1>crypto world as someone who is a long term believer

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<v Speaker 1>in the space. They have deep conviction and they want

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<v Speaker 1>you to play an important role going forward building out

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<v Speaker 1>the infrastructure of cryptocurrencies. Was warm hoping one of the

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<v Speaker 1>most important um bridges that would bridge across different blockchains.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a big theme with this firm is belief. If

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<v Speaker 1>they find a project or something that they're passionate about

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<v Speaker 1>and there's conviction, they they've either put in they've either

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<v Speaker 1>invested a lot of their own capital, or they've helped

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<v Speaker 1>build the infrastructure of something. We'll be right back with

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<v Speaker 1>more from Katherine Doherty and U H Young. So one

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<v Speaker 1>of the other things they had a lot of belief

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<v Speaker 1>in was a little algorithmic stable coin called terra Usd.

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<v Speaker 1>Terra USD and its sister token, Luna lost their peg

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<v Speaker 1>to the dollar in the last few weeks. They had

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<v Speaker 1>a spectacular meltdown, sending prices to ner zero and their

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<v Speaker 1>market value to a shadow of the combined sixty billion

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<v Speaker 1>they once commanded, which is now sadly no longer with us.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, talk a little bit about why they

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<v Speaker 1>had such high conviction in this project and what ultimately

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<v Speaker 1>was the result. Ultimately, when we when we pose that

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<v Speaker 1>exact question to Knav and to others at the firm,

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<v Speaker 1>it became clear that Tara looked different. And I think

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<v Speaker 1>that there are there are very specific reasons that they

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<v Speaker 1>saw again in the early days a reason to support

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<v Speaker 1>this project, um one being exposure in Asia. Um there

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<v Speaker 1>there was just like a larger audience that I think

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<v Speaker 1>that they saw this stable coin reaching right, and Tara

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<v Speaker 1>was you know, came out of various Korea based investors.

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<v Speaker 1>A lot of their initial audience were retail investors in

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<v Speaker 1>in South Korea, so that that absolutely as a market

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<v Speaker 1>was very meaningful in terms of the original folks who

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<v Speaker 1>were excited about this project. That's correct. And when you

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<v Speaker 1>get in early to these kind of projects, you it's

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<v Speaker 1>not like the traditional equity investment where you you might

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<v Speaker 1>get equity in a company or a project. You're actually

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<v Speaker 1>getting these coins and you're getting the met at discount.

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<v Speaker 1>So there again is some value to finding these things

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<v Speaker 1>that early days you see promise and it might give

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<v Speaker 1>you what could be the bank for your buck. But

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<v Speaker 1>it is a bit with crypto. Part of the challenge

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<v Speaker 1>for being perceived as a role model is most people

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<v Speaker 1>have barely been around right like this. One of the

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<v Speaker 1>reasons where we're having this conversation is because crypto is

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<v Speaker 1>an asset class. Yes, it's you know, a decade and

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<v Speaker 1>a bit old, but this is one of the most prolonged,

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<v Speaker 1>and I would argue most complicated types of downturns that

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<v Speaker 1>various of these firms have had to experience. And it

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<v Speaker 1>is a very difficult leadership challenge to go from intern

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<v Speaker 1>to president to crisis manager in an extremely short amount

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<v Speaker 1>of time. In your conversations with with can in your

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<v Speaker 1>conversations with like Jump Crypto, was there anything that came

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<v Speaker 1>across to you about how they might have just like

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<v Speaker 1>experienced this right, so they sort of launched into a

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<v Speaker 1>bull market where crypto prices were hitting all time highs,

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<v Speaker 1>and then sort of six months into his tenure, it's like, wow,

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<v Speaker 1>we're having a very different conversation. I think there's definitely

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<v Speaker 1>moments of what I refer to as all hands on deck,

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<v Speaker 1>whether it's late night phone calls or days spent in

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<v Speaker 1>the office where you might even you know, stay over

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<v Speaker 1>in the office. Who knows their office is open floor plan?

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<v Speaker 1>You can't, You can barely unless someone explains it to you.

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<v Speaker 1>Distinguished between the traditional market making side and the crypto unit.

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<v Speaker 1>It's all just one big open floor. And often people

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<v Speaker 1>from traditional market making might even go into the crypto

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<v Speaker 1>business they like formally or informally. An important thing to

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<v Speaker 1>note about Jump is that, again, they have the backing

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<v Speaker 1>of their traditional market making business. So you bring up

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<v Speaker 1>a really good point about the newness of the crypto

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<v Speaker 1>ecosystem that they're growing in and want to be a

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<v Speaker 1>leader in. There afforded the ability to try things in

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<v Speaker 1>a way that other just crypto businesses can't well, they

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<v Speaker 1>haven't yet made it's their first birthday, and I would

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<v Speaker 1>be interested U in your perspective on, you know, anything

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<v Speaker 1>that they said about what they expect the next six

0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:39.640
<v Speaker 1>or so wants to look like. You know. Do they

0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:42.200
<v Speaker 1>see this as a prolonged crypto winter as folks have

0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:45.280
<v Speaker 1>taken to calling it, or it's just just another example

0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:47.080
<v Speaker 1>of crypto as an asset class that folks have to

0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:50.880
<v Speaker 1>write through. I think we asked Jump to reflect on

0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:56.200
<v Speaker 1>what has happened with Tara Luna and other projects. One

0:14:56.280 --> 0:14:59.160
<v Speaker 1>thing that they told us is even though things don't

0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:03.440
<v Speaker 1>always pan out the way they expected, they are really

0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:07.760
<v Speaker 1>a believer in the process and they think that you

0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:11.960
<v Speaker 1>shouldn't let your You should have an emotional discipline towards

0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:18.000
<v Speaker 1>the process or your decision making approach. And they said that, um,

0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:22.560
<v Speaker 1>regardless of the outcomes, there are still a believer of

0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:26.080
<v Speaker 1>their own process, which is too to invest, to trade

0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:29.200
<v Speaker 1>and to build in crypto, and the winter is something

0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:33.360
<v Speaker 1>that they have long expected and they kind of see

0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:38.040
<v Speaker 1>this as another opportunity to double down to be able

0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:42.320
<v Speaker 1>to invest in projects now hopefully at the even better

0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:46.800
<v Speaker 1>variation because prices are going down and then to build

0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:52.080
<v Speaker 1>out the infrastructure when and if the cryptal spring eventually arrives.

0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:55.000
<v Speaker 1>Thank you. You can find more of Catherine and u

0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:58.040
<v Speaker 1>ag is reporting on the Bloomberg Terminal, on Bloomberg dot

0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:02.840
<v Speaker 1>com and on Twitter. Katherine is at cat Lee Doherty

0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:06.280
<v Speaker 1>that's d O H E R T Y, and uh

0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:12.320
<v Speaker 1>is at u H Underscore Yang on the next episode

0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:16.680
<v Speaker 1>of Bloomberg Crypto. What makes crypto so enticing? Depending on

0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:20.440
<v Speaker 1>who you ask, cryptos volatility is either a bug or

0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:25.440
<v Speaker 1>a feature. Wild unexpected or aggressive price wings make this

0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:28.240
<v Speaker 1>an asset class that's still suited to anyone who's less

0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:31.400
<v Speaker 1>experienced than managing risk. But what about the folks who

0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:34.960
<v Speaker 1>find those risks and those swings to be a major

0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:38.520
<v Speaker 1>source of benefits. We're going to talk to Bloomberg opinion

0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:42.200
<v Speaker 1>columnist Leonel Laurent to discuss whether there's any value to

0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:50.800
<v Speaker 1>cryptos volatility. I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, and this is Bloomberg Crypto,

0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:54.240
<v Speaker 1>a daily podcast from Bloomberg and I Heart Radio. For

0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:56.560
<v Speaker 1>more shows from I heart Radio, visit the i heart

0:16:56.640 --> 0:16:59.920
<v Speaker 1>Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:03.440
<v Speaker 1>Email your questions, comments or suggestions for the show to

0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:06.200
<v Speaker 1>Crypto at Bloomberg dot net, and you'll find us on

0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:11.680
<v Speaker 1>Twitter at Crypto. The supervising producer of Bloomberg Crypto is

0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:15.040
<v Speaker 1>Vicky very Galina, our associate producers of Sanam Suddiki and

0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:18.680
<v Speaker 1>Moses and um Dasta wonder Ad is our engineer. Original

0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:19.880
<v Speaker 1>music by Leo Sidron