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Speaker 1: Give it a chance, Give it a chance, Give it

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Speaker 1: a chance.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, give it a chance, Give it a chance,

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Speaker 2: Give it a chance, Give it a chance, good morning,

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Speaker 2: Give it a You want to give it a chance,

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Speaker 2: Give it a chance, give it a chance.

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Speaker 3: Just give it.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to chancey aka, give it a chance. I'm switching

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Speaker 2: it now. It's chancy, Like yeah, yeah, it's chancy. And

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Speaker 2: we say like, oh, it's also called give it a chance.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, dowdy poopoo change.

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Speaker 2: We need a name for like our diehard listeners, you know,

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Speaker 2: like how Lady Gaga has like monsters, and Nicki Minada has.

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Speaker 1: Barbies, Aaron Rodgers has truthers?

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Speaker 3: Yes, what's what is our? What's ours?

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Speaker 1: Chancers?

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Speaker 3: Tiny chancers?

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Speaker 1: Hold tiny chance?

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Speaker 3: It's nice, so nice way to start a chancy.

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Speaker 1: That song doesn't need a chancy.

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Speaker 4: No, it needs a Grammy.

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Speaker 1: I think I give it down about a Grammy. Most

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Speaker 1: of you critics can't even stomachly, let alone stand me.

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Speaker 2: So we're starting with two bangers classics. But I'm really

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Speaker 2: excited to jump into this one, you know, because it's

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Speaker 2: I have a lot of feelings towards it, and you

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Speaker 2: actually you'll probably relate to this because you are a

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Speaker 2: touring musician for now. But I wonder, like, you know,

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Speaker 2: when you look at the crowd, you know, like, do

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Speaker 2: you ever say, like, you know, all you people, can't

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Speaker 2: you see like how your love's affecting my reality?

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Speaker 3: Do you ever say that?

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Speaker 1: I say it to them nightly, all seventy of them,

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Speaker 1: every night.

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Speaker 2: And when you're down, the only people that can make

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Speaker 2: it right are them, because that's what makes them larger

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Speaker 2: than life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. That is what makes them larger than life.

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Speaker 1: What's cool about this is this fall right in a

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Speaker 1: sweet spot yep, in my this is where our age

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Speaker 1: difference makes a critical difference. And when this happened, we'll

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Speaker 1: get into it. But this is exactly when I was

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Speaker 1: like totally out on anything like this in like the

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Speaker 1: most aggressive collegiate way. And so I don't even know

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Speaker 1: which one this is, but I know it's either like

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Speaker 1: it's not mister ansink, it's not what your friends think,

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Speaker 1: or it's like backstreams, or it's like ninety eight. Okay, Okay,

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Speaker 1: so yeah ninety eight.

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Speaker 3: It's not O town.

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Speaker 1: Sounds some new kids on the block. It's Chinese food

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Speaker 1: makes me slick.

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Speaker 2: You know, all they're like the you know, I was

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Speaker 2: a lot reference these bands. Yeah bands, So this is

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Speaker 2: Backstreet Boys larger than life and where if you're not

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Speaker 2: driving a vehicle right now, then you should probably watch

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Speaker 2: the music video.

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Speaker 1: But all right, I am gonna call it up.

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Speaker 2: But you I'm going to tell you Kevin skip like

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Speaker 2: the first twenty seconds because there's an intro and.

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Speaker 1: I'm not I'm gonna do I'm gonna do it on

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Speaker 1: a streaming service of my choice.

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Speaker 3: Oh good, good, Okay, no video, got it?

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Speaker 1: All right? Yeah, I don't have that kind of you

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Speaker 1: know capacity.

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Speaker 5: Okay, ready, well, right, Backstreet Boys.

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Speaker 2: Away?

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Speaker 3: Damn yeah, damn, I know complicated.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot to unpack. There's actually more to unpack,

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Speaker 1: is this Max Martin?

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Speaker 3: Oh, good question.

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Speaker 1: I don't do you have any Steve Martin? If the credit, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think it's Martin Lawrence, that'd be amazing. Christian London,

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Speaker 1: Max Martin, Oh yeah, big Max, Big Max?

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Speaker 3: Oh it is Max?

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Speaker 1: Yeah Max?

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Speaker 3: Same Kristin London.

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Speaker 1: No, there's there's I have composition and lyrics. Brian Littrell

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Speaker 1: spree well, Brian Latrell's pretty well. Christian London, who I

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Speaker 1: think also very famous Nordic filmmaker, and then Max Martin,

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Speaker 1: who's like, you know, yeah a ka Max Martin aka

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Speaker 1: Christian London.

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Speaker 2: I know, I was wondering, like if some people do that,

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Speaker 2: there's there's so much there's Honestly, I'm gonna I'm gonna just.

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Speaker 3: Give you my thesis statement.

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Speaker 1: I'm ready.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a good song that grosses me out. Great,

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Speaker 2: it's such a fan what do you call lip service?

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Speaker 2: Like it's so it's so grossly like it's just it's

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Speaker 2: it's discussing on a bunch of reasons. One it's actually

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Speaker 2: actually I mean, I should be starting positive, but I

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Speaker 2: need to get this out of the way because there's

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Speaker 2: so much I like about it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, there are no rules, there are no rules to chances.

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Speaker 2: So the the way I feel is this. I think

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Speaker 2: it's like the music is great, the lyrics, like the

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Speaker 2: the like the melodies, but the song about it's about

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Speaker 2: how like they wouldn't be here if it wasn't for

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Speaker 2: their fans, right, which just kind of it just grosses me.

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Speaker 2: It just kind of grosses me out, like it's you

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Speaker 2: could say that, but to put it in a song

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Speaker 2: feels really weird and then that second verse where it's

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Speaker 2: like looking at the crowd and I see your body sway.

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Speaker 4: Right, Their audience is children.

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Speaker 1: Legit, littrell spree, well, legit, children legit.

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Speaker 2: Like little girl, So looking at the crowd and I

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Speaker 2: see your body sway, come on, wishing I could thank

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Speaker 2: you in a different way.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's the one that leapt off the page

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Speaker 1: to me too, Case, if we're talking.

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Speaker 3: Straight, Yeah, girl, that's the one.

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Speaker 1: It's really funny to say yeah in the middle of

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Speaker 1: this particular.

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Speaker 4: Part of the Honestly, I wish I could thank you

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Speaker 4: in a different way.

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Speaker 1: I wish you could thank me a different way too.

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Speaker 1: I've been wishing that for I mean, I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: give that a chance, reap, but that's not what we're

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Speaker 1: here to talk about, unless our listeners would like a chancellers,

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Speaker 1: if you want us to talk about the way Case

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Speaker 1: would like to thank me a right, Dinah, Dial nine

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Speaker 1: one one.

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Speaker 2: Honestly, I I think, like, all right, So there's that

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Speaker 2: thing where there's a thing that we're like little girls

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Speaker 2: or like little kids want to be older, and so

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Speaker 2: maybe they're trying to swing and be like I'm saying

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Speaker 2: it to an older fan but it's so complicated because

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Speaker 2: their audience was just to see of children women children.

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Speaker 1: I mean, well, what's what's interesting.

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Speaker 3: About children women?

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Speaker 1: Which was that? That was that? That that's you know,

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Speaker 1: very very famous book and movie Children Women by Good Girl.

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Speaker 1: I do think that, uh, you know, I think what's

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Speaker 1: the the entire history of this kind of fandom, whether

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Speaker 1: whether it's Backstreet Boys, whether it's you know, new Kids

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Speaker 1: on the Block, whether it's Elvis, whether it's the first

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Speaker 1: two years the Beatles, whatever, which is whether it's po M,

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Speaker 1: you know, whether it's Pod, whether it's BD, BVD, Bell BIV, devo, belbe.

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Speaker 1: That's eminem. Yeah, like finding things like that to pronounce

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Speaker 1: that way to find the rhyme, although right now I

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Speaker 1: can't do it. But this entire what's the weird like

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Speaker 1: thin ice upon which this entire exchange is predicated is

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Speaker 1: basically this we're getting into. This is an amazing way

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Speaker 1: to get into an a f of chancey. I like

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Speaker 1: the range. It's predicated on the very very very tricky

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Speaker 1: and specious idea that effectively, very newly let's just be straight,

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Speaker 1: very newly pubescent people fall in a kind of fantasy

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Speaker 1: quote like a project and what's it called a parasocial

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Speaker 1: is the word that gets used now about fan artist

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Speaker 1: relationship into this space where it's like what Bop magazine is,

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Speaker 1: Tiger Beat, all of these things, it's basically like their

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Speaker 1: first major crush or like kind of like external love interest.

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Speaker 2: And capitalizing on it and like correct exploiting it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that part of the like why

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Speaker 1: it grosses you out is that there's a whole sort

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Speaker 1: of sociological phenomenon to dig into there that's like, really,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot there. It's layered and it's a little tricky.

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Speaker 1: But maybe when the artist doesn't do the requisite wink

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Speaker 1: wink work to appropriately tuck their part of that dynamic

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Speaker 1: when they basically say in the second verse, like I

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Speaker 1: know that my audience as effectively tweens, but wow, I'd

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Speaker 1: love to thank you in a different way.

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Speaker 4: You lay and seeing your body sway is crazy.

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Speaker 1: It's like it's it's crazy direct, yes, yes, yes, yes.

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Speaker 4: You know the other the first lyric with the very

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Speaker 4: first layers.

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Speaker 1: That we're starting here, this is so good. Yes, I know.

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Speaker 2: Firstly, because I may run and hide when you're screaming

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Speaker 2: my name, and that's to that's to sort of that's

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Speaker 2: to acknowledge that, like there's this thing where like the

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Speaker 2: fans are there and they sit like ever since the

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Speaker 2: Beatles have to run away from from children women, yes,

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Speaker 2: and and so they're acknowledging like, oh, cops.

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Speaker 1: Are coming by the way right now to stop this.

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Speaker 1: Like I don't know if the listeners can hear outside,

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Speaker 1: they're like, that's enough. Children, women talk?

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Speaker 3: What do you call them? Girls?

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Speaker 4: No wayles?

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Speaker 3: What I call my dog? I call my dog good girl.

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Speaker 2: So I may run and had when you're screaming my

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Speaker 2: name up. But let me tell you now, there are

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Speaker 2: prices to fame, all right. It's really it's it's really

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Speaker 2: like it's it's it's not only gross in the in

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Speaker 2: this weird way with where with with like.

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Speaker 1: I must started playing it again. Yeah, yes, you know

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Speaker 1: what it is.

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Speaker 2: It's also kind of like just lame that they like

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Speaker 2: they ran out of ideas and they're like, I guess

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Speaker 2: you one could say like they're like the Devil's advocate,

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Speaker 2: is that they're this is like a real thing they

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Speaker 2: have to deal with and they're writing a song about it. Okay,

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Speaker 2: well sure, until you start to think them in a

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Speaker 2: different way.

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Speaker 1: Well correct, and I also think for me, I like that.

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Speaker 1: But this is the point of this show. People. If

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Speaker 1: you don't want serious exit Gesis of Christian London, don't

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Speaker 1: fucking come to Chancy. Dog. That's what happens on Chancy,

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Speaker 1: and the chancers know that. The chancers definitely know that,

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Speaker 1: and they know the earth is flat, dog.

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Speaker 3: Tiny chancers know the earth is flat.

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Speaker 4: And when you come here for breaking down.

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Speaker 1: Christy, yes, now, but listen. The thing about this lyric

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Speaker 1: for me the song lyrically, and it's a little inside baseball.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes a song writer calls the whole song the lyric,

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Speaker 1: not just like one lyric and the song like. The

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Speaker 1: thing about the lyric to me is it's inconsistencies are

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Speaker 1: as such. This song starts with them complaining in a

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Speaker 1: way about the parasocial relationship between them and fans, but

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Speaker 1: then very quickly pivots to literally saying the fans keep

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Speaker 1: them alive, fans with stature that is larger than measurable life.

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Speaker 1: But the first part of the song is basically like

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Speaker 1: get away from me. They're prices to this. Look. I

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Speaker 1: might be a god to you, I get it, but

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Speaker 1: there are prices to that godlike role I have to

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Speaker 1: play and frankly the one who exacts that price tax

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Speaker 1: man and get the fuck away from me, give me

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Speaker 1: a chancy to have min in life. But at the

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Speaker 1: same time, thank you, rely everything you literally give me everything.

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Speaker 1: I'd love to come in the crowd and smooth you.

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Speaker 2: The crowd and smooth you in a in a weirder way.

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Speaker 2: The part that I don't get is the that like

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Speaker 2: larger than life is literally like they like had a

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Speaker 2: board of phrases and they were like, Okay, larger than

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Speaker 2: life sounds good. Let's do larger than life and write

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Speaker 2: a song about it. It's it's like, it's such a

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Speaker 2: strange disconnect, Like all you people, can't you seek and stay?

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Speaker 1: Oh here.

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Speaker 2: I love the fact in our reality every time we're down,

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Speaker 2: you could make it right. Every time we're sad, you

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Speaker 2: can make it right by buying our records and coming

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Speaker 2: to see us live. And that's what makes you larger

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Speaker 2: than life itself.

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Speaker 1: Which is honestly in a way now that you've led

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Speaker 1: us here with that was that was professorial and it's

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Speaker 1: and it's uh and it's breaking apart. The thing is

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Speaker 1: in a weird way, whether this was intentional or not.

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Speaker 1: And look, Max Martin, I do these little like and

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Speaker 1: it's very boutique and and and you know, so it

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Speaker 1: exists in my little corner of the playground. There's like

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Speaker 1: we do these songwriting workshops. We've been doing since like

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty one in COVID with this little company, and

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Speaker 1: some other artists do it too, and it's effectively like

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Speaker 1: one on one conversation. Sometimes people workshop a song or whatever.

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Speaker 1: But in like setting the table for it, I always

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Speaker 1: talk about, like, how all of this stuff and we've

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Speaker 1: talked about it on this show. It couldn't be more subjective?

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Speaker 1: What is more subjective than what people like in art

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Speaker 1: and entertainment? Nothing like it couldn't And that there are

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Speaker 1: sort of like polls to that experience. And in my

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Speaker 1: mind it's like, I know, there's like Leonard Cohen, and

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Speaker 1: there's Max Martin, and I there's a lot of other

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Speaker 1: things too, But I know, like I know where my

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Speaker 1: taste leads me. But does that mean that the where

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Speaker 1: my taste leads me is objectively better? Of course it doesn't.

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Speaker 1: There's a billion people that would totally disagree with that assessment.

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Speaker 1: In fact, more people would disagree with where my taste

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Speaker 1: leads me on that specific question than not that being said,

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Speaker 1: Like I don't want to think maybe he did do

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Speaker 1: this on purpose. In a way, it is a tacit

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Speaker 1: acknowledgment of the power. They are larger than life to

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Speaker 1: the Backstreet Boys because the minute the fan goes away,

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Speaker 1: the band goes away, like the band ceases to exist

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Speaker 1: when the audience stops caring about it.

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Speaker 2: I want to hear that song, and I think if

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Speaker 2: they're like legit, like we disappear without you, Like that's

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Speaker 2: like that's a crazy pbstential existential idea of an artist,

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Speaker 2: like we do not cease to exist if you every

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Speaker 2: when you look away, we're gone forever.

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Speaker 1: You know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: And that's like it feels like they might be giants

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Speaker 2: like where my eye where your eyes don't go?

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Speaker 1: You know, yes, like little kids, object permanence or whatever,

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Speaker 1: like does that exist if I don't look at it?

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Speaker 1: But I will tell you this, yes, audience.

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Speaker 2: Like basically like we don't exist. We die if you

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Speaker 2: turn this off, so give us everything and well thank you.

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Speaker 1: Differently, yeah, I would love listen. I want to be

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Speaker 1: very clear to our audience, right, now I would.

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Speaker 2: We hear your body sway as you listen to a

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Speaker 2: weird podcast, right, I'm I'm down for a pause, a pause.

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Speaker 2: I'm down with the sickness, but I'm also down for

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Speaker 2: a pause.

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Speaker 1: Run I am. I think I think that that's what,

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Speaker 1: But we can pivot to the pause run I think

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Speaker 1: from that because look, that is a layer cake. The

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Speaker 1: lyric is whether it's like convoluted, confusing or like layered,

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Speaker 1: it really does take a turn around that all of

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Speaker 1: our time spent in flashes of lights, there are prices

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Speaker 1: to fame. Yeah, it's the Beatlemania thing. Yeah, that sets

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Speaker 1: up what sounds to me like a negative experience one

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Speaker 1: is having where they feel, you know, a prison can

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Speaker 1: be a prison, even if the bars are made of gold,

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Speaker 1: kind of a thing. And then so it's interesting because

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Speaker 1: the whole theme of the song is in a weird way,

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Speaker 1: like I do think there's a tension between where they

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Speaker 1: start and where they go, and that makes where they

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Speaker 1: go a little bit more interesting to me. Of course,

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Speaker 1: accepting for the second verse, which is frankly unacceptable, there's

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Speaker 1: no there's no explicating that in a way that's just

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Speaker 1: like not like you know it would be kind of

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Speaker 1: a little like cool, as if we like get a

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Speaker 1: little wink wink, not not at the crowd, and it's

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Speaker 1: like no, no, no, no, that's not cool. I notice that's

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Speaker 1: not cool. But I do think it's like they are

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Speaker 1: getting it something like when you said it grosses you're

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Speaker 1: out that they write a song about like the way

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Speaker 1: this is executed on many levels, including the basic premise

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Speaker 1: of the song. I do think there is something to

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Speaker 1: be said for the acknowledgment. Like I remember there's a

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Speaker 1: guy in my band we were whether we are a collective.

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Speaker 1: The band is such a collective, like thirty people have

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Speaker 1: been in out over ten years, but there's one tour

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Speaker 1: or on my basis, my friend Jay, he was like,

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Speaker 1: we're watching a crowd watch a band we were on

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Speaker 1: tour with, and he'd been in bands for thirty years,

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Speaker 1: and he like was like, hey, I just realized something.

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Speaker 1: This has nothing to do with us. The entire thing

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Speaker 1: is like what's happening out there? And I knew what

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Speaker 1: he meant by that. It's in exchange, and I think

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Speaker 1: he was actually saying that as an overcorrection to kind

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Speaker 1: of level the field. But so much of artistic entertainer.

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Speaker 1: Hubris is about this almost like edified god, like in

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Speaker 1: the culture. You know, it's like our royalty if you

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Speaker 1: get to a certain level, and even just the exchange

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Speaker 1: that happens anywhere where like one person's facing one way

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Speaker 1: in a room and everyone else is facing the other

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Speaker 1: way watching them do something, there is something about that

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Speaker 1: that is there's this layered and so I do think

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Speaker 1: that it's ancient. Yes, it's ancient, and it's like there's

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Speaker 1: something in it that it's very easy to go wrong,

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Speaker 1: to become an egomaniacal kind of like power dynamic nightmare,

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Speaker 1: but it's also easy to kind of forget. I think

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Speaker 1: what happens when people get lost in that is that

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Speaker 1: one of two things seem to happen. One is they

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Speaker 1: don't exist without an audience in the way that that

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Speaker 1: existence is defined. The other thing is that like it

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Speaker 1: then curdles into some weird awards show bullshit where effectively

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Speaker 1: people are like thanking their audience for enabling them to

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Speaker 1: live these lives outside of you know what normal people

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Speaker 1: get to exist in so in weird way by telling

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Speaker 1: the audience you're larger than life, at least they're paying

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Speaker 1: a kind of lip service to inverting that. I agree

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Speaker 1: that I don't hear very often in songs, and I'll

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Speaker 1: shut up. I'll say this. This is a high compliment

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Speaker 1: for me. The whole song made me think about there's

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Speaker 1: a bridge to a song on from a Basement on

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Speaker 1: the Hill the Elliott the Postumous Elliot Smith record. There's

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Speaker 1: a song called Memory Lane. I can't believe I'm connecting

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Speaker 1: these two things. This is ever in history. But the

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Speaker 1: ridge goes and he was not a very like I

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Speaker 1: feel like he was always singing in code. The feeling

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Speaker 1: was in there, but he was like Hi, he was

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Speaker 1: intentionally high at shell games a lot with what he

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Speaker 1: was saying and his feelings. And one of the things

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Speaker 1: he says, though it's so direct, the bridge to that

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Speaker 1: song is he goes, if it's your decision to be

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Speaker 1: open about yourself, be careful or else, and then he repeats,

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Speaker 1: be careful or else. And this is like this confessional sound.

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Speaker 1: It's got people think he's a confessional singer songwriter. And

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Speaker 1: he's talking about the expense of that with your audience,

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Speaker 1: with the press, even with the people that your colleagues,

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Speaker 1: collaborators with. And to me, this is crazy. But the

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Speaker 1: first verse of this song is effectively them saying, if

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Speaker 1: it's your decision to get up and do this thing

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Speaker 1: we do, there's a cost to it. And I don't

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Speaker 1: know that's there's there's something in there that I'm like, hey,

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Speaker 1: for an enormous pop band to touch that. So are you?

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Speaker 2: Are you saying that a lot of Elliot Smith's songs

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Speaker 2: were ghost written by Christian London.

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Speaker 1: I'm saying most. I'm actually saying I think Christian London

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Speaker 1: is a student for Elliott Smith. One thing people know

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Speaker 1: about e Smith is that once he was nominated for Oscar,

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Speaker 1: he began to write songs for Backstreet.

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Speaker 4: So Christian is Max Martin and Elliott Smith.

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Speaker 1: One of the core planks of QAnon is actually the

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Speaker 1: Elliott Smith is Christian London. And it's just a thing

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Speaker 1: people don't talk about outside of chancey.

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Speaker 3: Tiny chancers do they no chances?

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Speaker 2: So I also want to This is something that I

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Speaker 2: really like when when bands do this, and I've brought

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Speaker 2: up before that I thought that I've brought this up

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Speaker 2: as a missed opportunity and Backstreet Boys hits this here

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Speaker 2: but not enough.

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Speaker 3: It's the part where it goes.

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Speaker 2: And that makes you lader and that yeah, yeah, but

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Speaker 2: like honestly three times and I like that, but.

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Speaker 3: I wish they'd changed it.

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Speaker 2: I actually think if I was a DJ, I would

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Speaker 2: I would move move these songs together.

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Speaker 3: He'd be like, and.

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Speaker 2: That makes you, dude, and that makes you harder, better, faster.

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Speaker 1: Stronger, hour hot.

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Speaker 3: Right, I would do that transition right.

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Speaker 1: Good, really good.

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Speaker 3: I'm giving it all up to DJ.

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Speaker 1: That's really good.

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Speaker 4: Everyone just had to like hear me seeing that DJ transition.

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Speaker 1: But if you needed to do it, sometimes you have

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Speaker 1: to get through something, you have to process it. Do.

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Speaker 2: I think that the music in this is very good.

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Speaker 2: As soon as I turned it on, I was like,

401
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:32,520
Speaker 2: I'm enjoying. I enjoy this, and I literally thought like,

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Speaker 2: is this another one where I'm like, I'm wrong.

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Speaker 3: It's a good song.

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00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:38,840
Speaker 2: But then I just remembered what the lyrics are about

405
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Speaker 2: and that second verse. But like I have a I

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Speaker 2: have a lie.

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Speaker 3: I like a sort of.

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Speaker 2: I think it's just it's nostalgic for me in my era,

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Speaker 2: Like you were talking about our different ages, slightly different.

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Speaker 1: I'm sixty one in case he's eighteen.

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Speaker 4: And I just graduated high schools and I.

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Speaker 1: Have emphysema and.

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Speaker 4: I'm the captain and the wrestling team.

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Speaker 3: How do we become friends? We're a modern back to

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Speaker 3: the future. Uh, I think that. I think that that

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Speaker 3: all right.

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Speaker 2: So what this reminds me of and I have an

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Speaker 2: affection for this stuff is growing up in Staten Island,

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Speaker 2: New York, the children women, I was friends with, the girls,

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Speaker 2: I was friends with love this, and I was a

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Speaker 2: kid that wasn't great at like turning girls into girlfriends.

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Speaker 2: I could only get them to be my friends. And

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Speaker 2: I was like, I'll take it because I get to

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Speaker 2: be friends with girls and I like that. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: think I've learned. I learned so much with that, and

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Speaker 2: it was I'm happy for it. I'm happier for it.

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Speaker 2: Just you know, in the relationships I have and have

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Speaker 2: continued to have platonically.

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Speaker 1: Well it actually kind of like teaches you how to

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Speaker 1: be platonically and actually the legitimately to make platonic friendships

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Speaker 1: across like sexual preference or whatever, you know, which is

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Speaker 1: I think an important thing.

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Speaker 2: If if I had my drugs, i'd be back, you know,

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Speaker 2: at the time, I'd be kissing girls on the lips.

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00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 1: But you would have been you would have been thanking

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Speaker 1: them in a different way.

437
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,880
Speaker 4: But when I was that age, but the.

438
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:27,400
Speaker 1: Now really riding the line here.

439
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 2: Sweat ruin sweating as I say, children women, Chris. It

440
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 2: sounds like something that like a senator from the like

441
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 2: from the past would say my shot, yeah.

442
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, or from right now, depending on where you are

443
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 1: in the country.

444
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,879
Speaker 2: So those friends, we they love this music, and it's

445
00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 2: the same reason why like I have an affection for

446
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,360
Speaker 2: like the Moo, like the movies and TV that are

447
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 2: like like from Dawson's Creek to Two Friends to Titanic,

448
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,400
Speaker 2: like you know, they love that, and there's a reason

449
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 2: they loved it. And I liked that they loved it,

450
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,920
Speaker 2: and I have nostalgia for that, and you know, and

451
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 2: and this is not I. I also grew up loving

452
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 2: you know, punk bands and rock bands, and like I

453
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,880
Speaker 2: was a instant. I was a quote unquote rocker, which

454
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 2: was like a difference from yeahstream but Odell loved this

455
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 2: stuff because it was I remember going. Also, I think

456
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 2: I've we've talked about this a little bit, but like

457
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:40,920
Speaker 2: I liked TRL.

458
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, how could you not that was like

459
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:48,200
Speaker 1: a cultural ubiquity if you were I even sorry, I

460
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 1: didn't mean.

461
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,639
Speaker 2: No, no, Please, I want to know because because I

462
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 2: think the thing that I liked the most, and and

463
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,159
Speaker 2: please if I if I said to stop me. But

464
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 2: it was so funny that you'd have Backstreet Boys and

465
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 2: corn and like Tom Tom bum bum song like.

466
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: All Elliott Smith played on t r L.

467
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 3: I didn't know that looked this up.

468
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,160
Speaker 1: It was. It was like in a trend, that transitional

469
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 1: moment where it was Carson Dally. It was early. It

470
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: was when Goodwill Hunting was out, and it was when

471
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 1: Misery was like a very minor quote hit, like it

472
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 1: wasn't really being played on MTV or on the radio

473
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 1: very much, but it was. It was the Oscar nominated

474
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 1: song for a hugely successful movie that was very much

475
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 1: like a zeitgeist moment that was like, you know, look

476
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 1: that movie blew up to two people that are still

477
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:40,880
Speaker 1: like enormously famous, powerful, celebritized people today. Anyway, he's he's

478
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 1: on there and it's nuts because he's sitting next to

479
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: Carson Dally.

480
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 5: And Fred Durst exactly exactly a different way exactly, and

481
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,440
Speaker 5: he sang that and that's on Basement on the Hill too.

482
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 1: You know, she really checked there's a lot of stuff

483
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 1: on that record people should hear about, but no, t

484
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 1: R O. Well, I think if you were especially I'm

485
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 1: forty four, how old are you, I'm thirty eight, So yeah,

486
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 1: that's exactly. I mean when you that was I would

487
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 1: imagine it was almost appointment viewing, Like you would come

488
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 1: home from school and like transition into whatever your evening

489
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 1: was going to be, and that would be on in

490
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: the background while you were doing whatever.

491
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 2: And it exposed you to all different stuff. So if

492
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 2: you if you were like a Corn fan or olymp biscuit,

493
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 2: you you would watch. You'd have no choice but to watch,

494
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 2: like you know, not only boy bands, but like R

495
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,199
Speaker 2: and B was on there, like you know, like or

496
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 2: like Destiny's Child that stuff is right.

497
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:44,439
Speaker 1: A Mesados like totally yeah.

498
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 2: Wow, And but it was like oh but also actually

499
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 2: you know Enrique Iglesia, so like it really had all

500
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,919
Speaker 2: different kinds of genre on this thing. And now it's like,

501
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 2: I think it's so easy to go down your path.

502
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 2: And it's the same thing obviously with politics, but like

503
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 2: you get into this sort of helping you.

504
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: Get into that more. I don't think there's a discourse

505
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,400
Speaker 1: out there in the world about the world of politics.

506
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're gonna give politics a chance.

507
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Honestly, most of what we want to talk

508
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 1: about on the show is just to give politics. I'm chancy,

509
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:19,679
Speaker 1: so all right.

510
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 2: So my thought is this that a lot of times

511
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 2: with these songs, when I hear them, I roll my eyes.

512
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 3: This one I.

513
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,719
Speaker 2: Get excited because I want to turn to my friends

514
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 2: and go listen to the second verse and totally you

515
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like, I think that that will

516
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 2: be my takeaway.

517
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: The second versus is definitely going to be a big

518
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 1: part of the takeaway. Second verse almost completely overshadows everything

519
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: else that's.

520
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 4: Happening, and verse worse than the first.

521
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: Where's the fred Durs?

522
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think that this ultimately, I will also

523
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 2: say that when this comes on, aside from that little

524
00:27:55,520 --> 00:28:00,120
Speaker 2: yuckiness the ick as the kids say, I think.

525
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 3: That the music like don't Don't Dan you On.

526
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 2: Like it doesn't have that seems sort of like you know,

527
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,719
Speaker 2: in the past we talked about feeling hella good, it

528
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 2: doesn't have that just overly repetitive. It's got the sweet

529
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 2: spot of like, oh, this is like a really simple

530
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 2: melody that I dig and I like where it goes.

531
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 2: I like the pre chorus. I like the chorus. The

532
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 2: verses scare me. The bridge. The bridge is okay.

533
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:29,880
Speaker 1: Bridges a little. Yeah, the bridge, I was gonna say,

534
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,400
Speaker 1: the bridge is a little. I think one thing really

535
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: basically what this song bears out is from a structural

536
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: Max Martin is like, uh, you know, switch whatever, Swedish engineering,

537
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: it's like perfect, it's it's it's.

538
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:48,959
Speaker 4: A it's a diceon vacuum.

539
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: Yes, and he and that is not I don't mean

540
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 1: that as a pejorative thing, like it's not it's not

541
00:28:55,600 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: easy to do that, especially to do like that'siculous and

542
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: presumptuous for me to say that. Not only is it

543
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: not easy, there's a reason why this person has been

544
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: like the sought after collaborator and songwriter for kind of

545
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 1: like a couple generations of major pop and it's because

546
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: the construction and execution are unassailable. And I think what

547
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: he really understands at this level of pop dance songwriting

548
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: is like, the bridge is negotiable. The bridge can kind

549
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 1: of be some like weird aqueous space where like you

550
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 1: have singers, these are performers, you can kind of let

551
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: them like vocalize in some weird way in the background

552
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: and just kind of like he kind of abstracts things

553
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 1: for ten seconds in the bridge and just brings us

554
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: right back to what we really want. Is like an

555
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: amp and up double chorus. But you need, you do

556
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: need something to get there. And I've meaning to say this.

557
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 1: I know we're near. This is like just something about construction.

558
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 1: There's about literal construction. I want to talk about the BQE.

559
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 1: There's a story that I've loved that about songwriting where

560
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 1: Bob Dylan and Leonard Cohen are both they're driving together.

561
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 1: This is a real story, Like Leonard Cohl starts like

562
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: a joke. It started. There's a few yes, and there's

563
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: and you don't know what it is. There's a few

564
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: of them that start like a joke with them, and

565
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: but one of them is they're driving and just like

566
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 1: a woman comes on the radio and Dylan turns to

567
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 1: Leonard Cohen when the bridge comes on and goes they're

568
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: driving in silence listening and Dylan goes, pretty sturdy bridge.

569
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 1: When the bridge to that song comes on, dirty Bridge,

570
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: and Leonard Cohen goes, it's it's a good bridge. Bob

571
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: and Bob goes, you can drive a truck over that bridge. Wow,

572
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: it's total asshole, just an unforgiven, just unforgivable asshole. But

573
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: apparently he also says to me in that same conversation,

574
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: you know you're my number one songwriter, Leonard, and Leonard says,

575
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: well where are you? And he says, mom, number zero.

576
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: That's great, but I'm prey. I always think of that

577
00:30:58,680 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: when we talk about bridges.

578
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 3: Story the construction is I love a bridge. I love

579
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 3: a bridge.

580
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: Well, to me, the bridge is the secret weapon. And

581
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 1: I remember talking to colleague the bridge. To me, for

582
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,959
Speaker 1: a bridge to exist, it's got to be almost like

583
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: the best part of the song. It's like a bridge

584
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: almost has to be otherwise. I almost feel like or

585
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: it's got to be special in some way.

586
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 2: The bridge is a challenge, and I think songs like

587
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 2: this show you that it's a challenge because he didn't

588
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 2: nail the bridge and it's it's fine, it's a they

589
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 2: just used it as a quick little break to get

590
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 2: back in. Yes, I think that. Yeah, I think you're right,

591
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 2: Like I love I love when a pop song it's

592
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 2: got like a great bridge, like sometimes like a Miley

593
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 2: Cyrus will just have like a great bridge somewhere, and

594
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 2: I love when that.

595
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 1: Happens, and I think that the same is true. Like

596
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 1: and also, by the way, when you were talking about

597
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,479
Speaker 1: like it's funny I grew up, I was grew up

598
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: in Brooklyn and Staten Island, but the real formative of

599
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: like eleven to seventeen was Staten Island also and very

600
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: similar experiences. And I feel like the that thing about

601
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: like I like punk, I liked rock, I was a

602
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: rocker or whatever, but I also like loved pop music.

603
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 1: And the thing is it's because it's all pop music.

604
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 1: Guns n' Roses is pop music. It's just a dirtier yeah,

605
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: but like it's all pop music. And I think the

606
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: thing with what I love about Like even we've talked

607
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: about Elliott Smith a few times in this I think

608
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: it's because in a way, I actually think he is

609
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: also an immaculate constructionist like Max Smartin, just in a

610
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 1: totally different direction. And the bridge to something like his

611
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: song Waltz Number two XO, that bridge is incredible. It's

612
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 1: like an incredible And it's also like he nailed the assignment.

613
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: It was like this thing where it was like but

614
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: it's a pop song. It's just a pop song that

615
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: might have been on the radio in nineteen sixty seven

616
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 1: or something like that and it happened to be in

617
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight.

618
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 3: But that's so true.

619
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 1: Someone like Max Martin, it's just like he both understands

620
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: I feel like what maybe what I feel like with

621
00:32:58,280 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: this is he might have gotten up to the bridge

622
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: and been like, this is just I don't have it

623
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:02,959
Speaker 1: for this, so we're going to do this.

624
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 2: But you know what actually fixes it a lot, and

625
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 2: we didn't really talk about this is if you want

626
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 2: to hit song, you have to start with like a

627
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 2: blood curdling laugh, like a werewolf kind of which is

628
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 2: also that he does that on They have that kind

629
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 2: of laugh on that song that's like Everybody, which is

630
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 2: like got like a Halloween vibe. Oh yeah, but it's

631
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 2: funny that they brought back that laugh for this song.

632
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: Well it's a little like plant and Payoff, you know.

633
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 1: And by the way, if you don't know what that is,

634
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: you can buy a sid Field screenwriting. But yes, yeah,

635
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 1: he wants to bring it back. It's a little it's

636
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: like a brand thing. It is an identify a tag,

637
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 1: a tag, a skin tag.

638
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, skin tag in a producer skin tag. Yeah yeah,

639
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 2: well Heavy, I think we did it. I think our

640
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 2: tiny chancers are so excited. They're already back. They're ready

641
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 2: to get the Earth flat.

642
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: Going and thank us in the most different of ways.

643
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: That's it, by Chancers

644
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 3: Just giving ship