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Speaker 1: Snanky dank repig by Dank.

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Speaker 2: I might have a few quirks, but that least my

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Speaker 2: feet don't stand.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to No Dunk's here on the Athletic Podcast Network,

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Speaker 1: where today we will discuss Russell Westbrook how his Hall

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Speaker 1: of Fame career could have been a little bit different

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Speaker 1: if this happened, or if this happened, or if this happened.

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Speaker 1: It's called what if Russell Westbrook? To talk about, it's

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Speaker 1: the man in the middle, Trey Kirby, he Ay, and

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Speaker 1: of course the man always making the magic happen. It's JD. Hello,

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Speaker 1: what's up? JD? I'm tas Melson. I've had a fixation

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Speaker 1: with Russell Westbrook since he got dealt to the Denver Nuggets,

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Speaker 1: which is probably going to be his last attempt in

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Speaker 1: a rotation to win a championship, Because then I thought back,

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Speaker 1: why didn't this guy win a championship? He's done a

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Speaker 1: lot in his career, He's achieved lot, MVP and all that,

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Speaker 1: But what if this happened? What if this happened?

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Speaker 2: What could have been right?

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Speaker 1: Westbrook's career is just it's interesting you're.

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Speaker 2: Saying he's not winning a title this year. You're saying

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Speaker 2: it's done for the Nuggets.

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Speaker 1: No, I'm saying there's a chance. Okay, yeah, but I

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Speaker 1: mean as a number one guy. Now he's number eight guy,

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Speaker 1: number nine guy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's just a helping hand around here. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's pretty interesting to be going and looking here at

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Speaker 2: Westbrook's career. Derrick Rose just retired today. They came into

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Speaker 2: the draft the same year, Rose the number one pick,

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Speaker 2: Westbrook the number four pick. They obviously had really highs

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Speaker 2: in their careers. Both suffered a lot of injuries. Both

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Speaker 2: never got a title. But Westbrook he's still playing. He's

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Speaker 2: not the Westbrook he once was, but we'll see what

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Speaker 2: he does with the Nuggets this year. But yeah, we're

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Speaker 2: getting to the end, and it's crazy going back and

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Speaker 2: watching all this stuff. Like, for me, Russell Westbrook is

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Speaker 2: a player who's played his entire career in the HD

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Speaker 2: era high definition. But you go back and watch some

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Speaker 2: of his earlier clips, surprisingly grainy, I would say.

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Speaker 1: It is surprising. Yeah, if you're falling along with YouTube,

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Speaker 1: prepare for a little as we'll roll some of these

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Speaker 1: clips as we get through the what if moments, because,

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Speaker 1: as you said, coming out that early heat ascended very quickly,

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Speaker 1: and when we get to our first topic here, you'll

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Speaker 1: see how fast that was and how high it was,

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Speaker 1: and then how fast it came down. Because our first

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Speaker 1: topic here is what if what if Patrick Beverly didn't

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Speaker 1: run in to Russell Westbrook's need? What if Patrick Beverley

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Speaker 1: didn't hit Westbrook's leg? Because this was twenty thirteen, the

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Speaker 1: playoffs year five for Russell Westbrook. Westbrook hannot missed a

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Speaker 1: game to that point, which is really incredible when you

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Speaker 1: think back. He played four hundred and thirty nine consecutive

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Speaker 1: games to start his NBA career, all his regular season

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Speaker 1: games and his playoff games, and then twenty thirteen is

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Speaker 1: an important part of the history here because okay, see

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Speaker 1: in twenty ten first round exit in the playoffs, twenty

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Speaker 1: eleven Conference finals, twenty twelve they made the NBA Finals,

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Speaker 1: lost to the Miami Heat. So the next year will

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Speaker 1: that ascension continue? It was the first year that they

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Speaker 1: won the one seed. Only time Russ and kad ever

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Speaker 1: won the one seed in the Western Conference together. So

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Speaker 1: here they go into the playoffs and Westbrook lasted just

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Speaker 1: two playoff games in a one to eight matchup with

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Speaker 1: the Houston Rockets, Game two of Round one. Westbrook bringing

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Speaker 1: the ball up, calling a timeout in the second quarter,

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Speaker 1: and Patrick Beverley basically gets that knee. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what to call it. I heard Matt Devlin on the

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Speaker 1: call say it was a side swipe of westbrookskne. I've

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Speaker 1: read Ben Golliver say.

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Speaker 2: It was a lunge.

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Speaker 1: I called it a hit here in our lower third.

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Speaker 1: If he doesn't hit Westbrook's like, because he definitely goes

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Speaker 1: after the ball and Westbrook takes his leg and moves

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Speaker 1: it in between Patrick Beverley and the ball. So if

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Speaker 1: he didn't do that, then the knee doesn't get hurt.

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Speaker 1: But it is a bit dirty because you know they's

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Speaker 1: just calling a timeout. You know he's calling a timeout,

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Speaker 1: so what's the point of going after that ball? And

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Speaker 1: that changed everything. He stayed in that game, but he

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Speaker 1: missed the entire rest of the playoffs. And then we'll

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Speaker 1: get to what had happened the following season as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I watched a secret bass beef history about Russell

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Speaker 2: Westbrook and Patrick Beverly. Obviously this is the start of

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Speaker 2: their career long beef. I didn't realize that this was

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Speaker 2: Patrick Beverly's first career start. He was a rookie this season.

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Speaker 2: This is the first game he started. You know. He

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Speaker 2: came in I think like halfway through the season and

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Speaker 2: really helped energize that Rockets team, which I think was

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Speaker 2: the first season James Harden was also on the Rockets,

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Speaker 2: having been traded after the finals with the OKC. Thunder

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Speaker 2: Secret Bass called this a timeout attack what Beverly did

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Speaker 2: to Russell Westbrook, because there's no reason for it. But

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Speaker 2: he's also a rookie in the NBA. That's what we've

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Speaker 2: seen has become Beverly's hallmark is playing to the whistle,

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Speaker 2: sometimes playing after the whistle, some maybe extra judicial things.

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Speaker 2: Is it a dirty play, it's a dirty result. It's

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Speaker 2: at least a reckless play. And then crazily a like

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Speaker 2: this kind of thing keeps happening with Westbrook and Beverly.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned Westbrook stays in the game. This happens at

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Speaker 2: the end of the second quarter. He comes in, they

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Speaker 2: get into it basically right after it as well. Westbrook

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Speaker 2: goes on to score sixteen points in the second half

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Speaker 2: of this game, finishes with I think twenty nine, and

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Speaker 2: he did it all on a torn meniscus. Like you said,

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Speaker 2: he was in the midst of the NBA's longest active

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Speaker 2: consecutive game streak, and it stretches even farther back than

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Speaker 2: that because he played every game of his college career,

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Speaker 2: didn't miss a single game in high school. So this

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Speaker 2: is the first game Russell Westbrook Game three would be

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Speaker 2: the first game he ever missed. So pretty crazy stuff

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Speaker 2: is considering Westbrook's career up to that point. In Beverly's

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Speaker 2: career from that point on.

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Speaker 1: It is didn't miss a game in high school, didn't

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Speaker 1: miss a game in us LA. Then this happens. It's

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Speaker 1: a timeout attack, I guess, but really it is ok

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Speaker 1: see rising into the one seed for the first time.

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Speaker 1: So after they went to the finals, they expected that

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Speaker 1: they'd have a home series in the conference finals. But

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Speaker 1: that does happened because Westbrook goes out despite playing the

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Speaker 1: rest of the game, he goes out and misses the

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Speaker 1: rest of the playoffs. And we had the czar the

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Speaker 1: doing the the arrow thing and another replay just checking

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Speaker 1: out how did this happen? Because he's the king of

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Speaker 1: the telecast, he is the Tizar of the Telestrader. Yes

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Speaker 1: and yeah, I forget the name of it now as

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Speaker 1: much as they don't use it anymore. But Patrick Beverley

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Speaker 1: goes after it. Russell Westbrook gets up and is super angry, obviously,

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Speaker 1: but he does stay in the game. It's remarkable late

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Speaker 1: in the second quarter that happens, and then he's able

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Speaker 1: to score and do everything twenty nine points, five boards,

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Speaker 1: five sis, four steals thirty seven minutes and actually they

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Speaker 1: call time out, so he goes to the bench, and

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Speaker 1: then the next play that Houston goes down to the

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Speaker 1: other way, he gets to steal it off. Patrick Beverly

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Speaker 1: just rips it from him and then scores and then

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Speaker 1: does a little flexing I got on the layup when

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Speaker 1: it was back. Yeah, you thought potentially he got injured there.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure at the very least, it just didn't

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Speaker 2: feel good, you know. He seems to be injured when

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Speaker 2: the Beverly timeout attack actually happens with his with his

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Speaker 2: reaction to it, But then he doesn't look like he's

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Speaker 2: hurt when he's going from coast to coast after the

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Speaker 2: steal on Beverly, But then he lands like weirdly on

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Speaker 2: that right leg, kind of bounces his foot catches a

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Speaker 2: little bit. I'm sure it didn't help, but again, that

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Speaker 2: was what four minutes left in the second quarter. He

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Speaker 2: played another half after that, and the thunder gone to

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Speaker 2: win this game. They actually take care of the Rockets

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Speaker 2: long term in this series. It was just in the

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Speaker 2: next series against the Spurs that they ran into problems.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he played thirty seven minutes that game, right, It

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Speaker 1: was the Grizzlies, and it ended up being who they

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Speaker 1: played the next year. They got a little revenge because

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Speaker 1: they beat the Grizzlies as after losing them to in

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Speaker 1: twenty thirteen and then losing to the Spurs. But this

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Speaker 1: just hurts when you look at how things could have

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Speaker 1: been for Okay, see again, after reaching the finals the

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Speaker 1: year before, Reggie Jackson has to take over the starting spot.

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Speaker 1: Reggie Jackson, young, young Reggie Jackson has to take over

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Speaker 1: the starting point guard spot and obviously didn't go very

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Speaker 1: well his first playoffs of his career. And yes, it's

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Speaker 1: a great beef when you look back. Westbrook and Beverly

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Speaker 1: hate each other. They hate each other even more further

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Speaker 1: on in this game, they just couldn't stop getting into

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Speaker 1: each other's faces and bumping into each other Beverly. If

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Speaker 1: you're watching on YouTube, bumps Westbrook. In another point, Westbrook

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Speaker 1: ain't having to help me up thing. He said, No,

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Speaker 1: don't you dare reach your arm out. I know you're

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Speaker 1: a little bit dirty. As you said, this is Beverly's

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Speaker 1: first playoffs in his NBA career. That's kind of something

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Speaker 1: I totally forgot about because he went and played internationally

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Speaker 1: for a few seasons, came back and this was his

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Speaker 1: first run. And this odd odd Rockets team because you

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Speaker 1: said Harden left, Okay, see, that's his first year with

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Speaker 1: the Houston Rockets. Jeremy Lynz started every game for the

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Speaker 1: Houston Rockets in that season. You've got Patrick Beverly, it's

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Speaker 1: Chandler Parsons on that team. Just an odd team that

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Speaker 1: caused Westbrook to miss. Yeah, the first time of his

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Speaker 1: career after an incredible year fro okay. See, as I said,

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Speaker 1: the only one seed in the KD and RUSS era

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Speaker 1: sixty to twenty two, the most wins to this day

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Speaker 1: any season for Oklahoma City period. That was a great

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Speaker 1: year and then it came to that ending. Unfortunately.

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Speaker 2: I think the Thunder had a chance that year. They

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Speaker 2: went into the Grizzlies series in the second round, and

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Speaker 2: you could tell that they were missing Russell Westbrook because

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Speaker 2: they got young Reggie Jackson and old Derek Fisher are

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Speaker 2: basically their point guards. Now that Westbrook is out and

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Speaker 2: Harden is playing for the other team, Tabos Ephalosia, Kendrick Perkins,

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Speaker 2: Nick Collison still playing big minutes, and you're like, wow,

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Speaker 2: this team was supposed to go on to the finals

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Speaker 2: and beat the Miami Heat, who were in peak Lebron era.

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Speaker 2: They'd won twenty seven straight games this season. Maybe the

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Speaker 2: Thunder would have a chance having if they got back

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Speaker 2: there after playing against the Heat in the twenty twelve

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Speaker 2: finals as well. But I really don't think as the case.

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Speaker 2: I don't think that that Thunder team, now looking back

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Speaker 2: on it would beat that Heat team that was the

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Speaker 2: best Heat team we saw during the Lebron d Wade

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Speaker 2: Chris Bosh era and these Thunder teams. When I was

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Speaker 2: going back and launching all these different Westbrook highlights, they

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Speaker 2: really struggled against small lineups, and that was an awesome

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Speaker 2: small lineup that the Heat were playing at that time,

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Speaker 2: with Shane Battier in the mix, Chris Bosh playing the

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Speaker 2: center spot for them. So twenty thirteen was an opportunity

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Speaker 2: I thought for the Thunder and you could definitely see

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Speaker 2: how they were missing Westbrook when they're playing against the Grizzlies,

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Speaker 2: the best defense in the Western Conference that year. They

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Speaker 2: held Kevin Durant the forty two percent shooting. Maybe having

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Speaker 2: Westbrook and Durant both healthy puts them past the Grizzlies.

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Speaker 2: I imagine that is the case. I don't know if

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Speaker 2: they beat that Spurs team in twenty thirteen. I definitely

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Speaker 2: don't think they beat that Heat team in twenty thirteen.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's move on to the following season, because unfortunately

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Speaker 1: the Russell Westbrook injury it lingered, but it wasn't expected

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Speaker 1: to linger. So my next question was what if Westbrook's

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Speaker 1: injury didn't linger into the next season because it happened

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Speaker 1: in May and they were expecting Russ Westbrook to come

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Speaker 1: back after one surgery, but then training camp came along.

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Speaker 1: We got him ready and they said, oh man, you're

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Speaker 1: not ready. Unfortunately you've got to undergo a second surgery.

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Speaker 1: People expected him to miss training camp and then a

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Speaker 1: month to two months, so another thirteen to twenty one games,

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Speaker 1: but Russ doesn't miss time. He came back after only

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Speaker 1: missing two games to start the season, and okay, see

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Speaker 1: was optimistic. All right, They're going to go get the

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Speaker 1: number one seed again and see what he does. Russ

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Speaker 1: stayed tough, got out there. They started twenty three and five.

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Speaker 1: The one seed looked like it could be theirs, and

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Speaker 1: that twenty third win was over the Knicks. On Christmas Day,

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Speaker 1: they just romped the New York Knicks by thirty points basically,

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Speaker 1: and mister triple double Russell Westbrook had one of those

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Speaker 1: the thunder routes twenty three and five, as I said,

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Speaker 1: but the knee acted up again right after that game.

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Speaker 1: They decide, oh man, you've gone got to undergo a

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Speaker 1: third surgery because of that. Patrick Beverly hit on that

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Speaker 1: same knee, so this time Westbrook was out for two months.

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Speaker 1: They started only five and five with Westbrook out for

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Speaker 1: those couple of months, so the hopes for the one

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Speaker 1: seed they dropped a bit. Westbrook missed thirty six games

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Speaker 1: that season due to that injury. On the other side,

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Speaker 1: though Durant got hot because of Westbrook's absence. The numbers

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Speaker 1: are ridiculous when you looked at Kevin Durant's numbers with

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Speaker 1: Westbrook down. Westbrook was out the entire month of January.

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Speaker 1: Westbrook or excuse me, Durant averaged thirty five point nine

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Speaker 1: points in January and he had a forty one game

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Speaker 1: string of scoring twenty five or more and he won

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Speaker 1: his only MVP of his career that year. He had

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Speaker 1: been a runner up three times prior to that. So

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Speaker 1: another what if here? What if Russ doesn't get hurt?

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Speaker 1: Does Durant win the MVP? When you look at it?

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Speaker 1: Who really knows? But okay, see ended with the second

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Speaker 1: seed after winning the once to see season prior because

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Speaker 1: Russ was hurt again and they lost in the playoffs

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Speaker 1: to the one seed Spurs in the conference finals. If

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Speaker 1: Russ is playing, if it isn't lingering, you'd imagine they

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Speaker 1: have home court advantage for the first time against the

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Speaker 1: San Jungle Spurs.

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Speaker 2: Maybe. Yeah, that Spurs team was awesome, Yeah they were.

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Speaker 2: They won sixty two games. The Thunder finished with the

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Speaker 2: second most wins in the entire league fifty nine games,

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Speaker 2: and that's with Westbrook only playing forty six. Clearly, Kevin

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Speaker 2: Durant is the leader of this team, even though maybe

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Speaker 2: Westbrook is the emotional guy. As long as Durant is healthy,

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Speaker 2: they're able to win close to sixty games is what

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Speaker 2: it turned out to be. Yeah, Westbrook is back though

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Speaker 2: in time for the playoffs, and the Spurs just kind

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Speaker 2: of had Westbrook's number in twenty twelve when they met

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Speaker 2: in the playoffs, they held them to thirty seven percent shooting.

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Speaker 2: In twenty fourteen this series this year the Western Conference

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Speaker 2: Finals forty one percent. They would meet up again in

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Speaker 2: twenty sixteen thirty eight percent for Westbrook in the playoff

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Speaker 2: series against the Spurs. They just know how to guard

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Speaker 2: him because the Spurs were happy to give up mid

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Speaker 2: range jumpers at that time. They got big guys at

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Speaker 2: the rim. They're going to defend the three point line.

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Speaker 2: Westbrook would kind of go a little bit hey wire

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Speaker 2: the Spurs. They had the best record in the league.

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Speaker 2: Like I said, they had the best net rating in

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Speaker 2: the league. This was the beautiful game Spurs in Game

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Speaker 2: six when they get bounced from the playoffs, Kevin Durant

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Speaker 2: and Russell Westbrook both have seven turnovers and Tim Duncan

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Speaker 2: goes insane in overtime a fourth quarter. Would this Thunder

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Speaker 2: team completely healthy have had a better record than the Spurs, maybe,

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Speaker 2: but they still lost Game six at home to a

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Speaker 2: legendary team that went on to beat the Heat.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it wasn't an odd series against San Antonio because

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Speaker 1: it started with other guys being hurt. Serge Ibaca was

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Speaker 1: hurt for the first two games that they lost. He

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Speaker 1: comes back and they start to win some games, but

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Speaker 1: they did lose Game six in an overtime game at

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Speaker 1: home where Russ didn't shoot all that well. It's just

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Speaker 1: a trickle effect of the previous season where things were

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Speaker 1: again ascending in OKC world. Things are right, we're the

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Speaker 1: one seed, and we go to the finals one seed.

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Speaker 1: The following year and things start to descend and things

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Speaker 1: just don't go perfectly because of multiple injuries. So you

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Speaker 1: start to think this team is just falling apart and

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Speaker 1: it continues into injuries for our next topic, But before

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Speaker 1: getting to the next what if, let's be a little

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Speaker 1: optimistic and just think about the moments that you remember

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Speaker 1: for Russell Westbrook in his career, regardless of the wins

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Speaker 1: or losses. What's something you remember about when it comes

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Speaker 1: to Russell Westbrook.

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Speaker 2: The most memorable thing about Russell Westbrook is his MVP

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Speaker 2: season twenty sixteen seventeen, when he set the record for

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Speaker 2: most triple doubles in a single season forty two. He

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Speaker 2: broke it I think the third to last game of

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Speaker 2: the season against the Denver Nuggets, he averaged a triple

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Speaker 2: double for the season. Was the first time anybody had

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Speaker 2: done that since Oscar Robertson in nineteen sixty two. He

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Speaker 2: obviously had a huge chip on his shoulder with Kevin

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Speaker 2: Durant leaving the Thunder for the Warriors during the off season,

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Speaker 2: and the stuff he was doing this season is absolutely incredible.

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Speaker 2: Like I said, his forty second triple double breaks Oscar

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Speaker 2: Robertson's record from nineteen sixty two. He had forty one.

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Speaker 2: In the game against the Nuggets where he actually breaks

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Speaker 2: Robertson's record, the Thunder are down fourteen points with five

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Speaker 2: and a half minutes left in the fourth quarter. He

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Speaker 2: breaks the record. He gets his tenth assist I think

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Speaker 2: with about three minutes left. Westbrook scores the last fifteen

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Speaker 2: points of the game for the Thunder to get the

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Speaker 2: win fifty points. He finishes with sixteen rebounds ten assists,

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Speaker 2: tying the record for most fifty point triple doubles in

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Speaker 2: a season three. He had three triple doubles with fifty

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Speaker 2: or more points that season, and then he ends things

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Speaker 2: by hitting a game winning buzzer beater from thirty six feet.

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Speaker 2: Insane uniforms for both teams here. The Nuggets are wearing

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Speaker 2: like their their marquette version of their rainbow jerseys, the

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Speaker 2: Thunder and completely orange. Westbrook just catch shoot, rises up,

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Speaker 2: knocks it down from thirty six feet, and the celebrations

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Speaker 2: are insane.

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Speaker 1: Like.

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Speaker 2: Westbrook likely already had the MVP wrapped up by this point,

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Speaker 2: averaging a triple double for the entire season, but when

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Speaker 2: he hit that shot, that was really the MVP winner there.

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Speaker 2: I went back and checked the shot Finder data on

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Speaker 2: stat head tasks. Westbrook I think made at least seven

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Speaker 2: potential game winners in the sixteen to seventeen season. Insane stuff.

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Speaker 2: So he was putting up the massive numbers obviously as

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Speaker 2: he was the main guy offensively for the Thunder, but

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Speaker 2: he was also everything they needed in the clutch. He

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Speaker 2: hit so many big shots and that's why he ended

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Speaker 2: up winning the MVP that season.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the first year that Kevin Durant was out of there,

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Speaker 1: it was Russell Westbrook time that season, and voters couldn't

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Speaker 1: help but say, yes, it's that guy, just because what

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Speaker 1: he was doing out there, because he was entirely healthy,

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Speaker 1: entirely ready to go. Yeah, the shot chart is pretty

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Speaker 1: awesome when you think about what he was doing out there.

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Speaker 2: You mean, how many times he got to shoot? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: because it was crazy. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Because of the percentages. You know, they're average percentages here

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Speaker 1: and there, they're good.

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Speaker 2: I mean, Westbrook can't shoot. He came into the draft

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Speaker 2: and they say, this is the best defensive guard in

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Speaker 2: the draft. He needs to improve his jump shooting. He

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Speaker 2: had a mid range jumper. In the middle of his career,

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Speaker 2: he took a lot of threes. I think he's for

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Speaker 2: NBA history. It's like him and Charles Barkley are the

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Speaker 2: two high volume, lowest percentage three point shooters. So it

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Speaker 2: never happened. But Westbrook got better at the things he

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Speaker 2: was good at already. He became somehow a better athlete

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Speaker 2: as his career went on. He figured out a little

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Speaker 2: bit of the craft of the pick and roll. But

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Speaker 2: he also never really got a jump shot. He never

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Speaker 2: really became a threatening outside shooter, but he would still

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Speaker 2: take him. It's just interesting to see some of the

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Speaker 2: stats that Westbrook has accumulated. He's the all time leader

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Speaker 2: in triple doubles now at one hundred and ninety nine.

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Speaker 2: Oscar Robertson number two, one hundred and eighty one. He

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Speaker 2: had four seasons averaging a triple double three in a row.

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Speaker 2: Than one season he didn't average a triple double. I

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Speaker 2: think that was maybe the Rocket season. Then he went

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Speaker 2: average a triple for the Wizards. He's the Wizards all

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Speaker 2: time leader in triple doubles, playing one season there in

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Speaker 2: saying stuff, he has four of the top ten single

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Speaker 2: season marks for most triple doubles, including the record obviously.

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Speaker 2: He also has the record for eleven straight triple doubles.

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Speaker 2: That's the most. He broke a Wilt Chamberlain record. That's

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Speaker 2: always impressive. I was on the Wikipedia list of NBA

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Speaker 2: career triple double leaders. I did a control left for

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Speaker 2: Russell Westbrook. His name shows up forty four times. It's

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Speaker 2: insane the stats he was putting up. Look, the ustiage

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Speaker 2: rates are like NBA leaders all time as well, so

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Speaker 2: there are reasons why he was able to do this.

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Speaker 2: But even given that opportunity, not a lot of guys

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Speaker 2: are going to put up a triple double every single

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Speaker 2: night for basically half a decade.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why he was a special guy. And the

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Speaker 1: way it all shook out with Durant leaving, it never

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Speaker 1: just ascended to to peak Westbrook with Durant because of

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Speaker 1: the first injury, as we got to and then it

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Speaker 1: lingered the next year, and then it ended up with

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Speaker 1: Kevin Durant the following year, which we'll get to in

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Speaker 1: a second. But watching that, as you said, those numbers

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Speaker 1: are awesome. That he led the league in per that season.

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Speaker 1: It was his best shooting percentage of his career. His

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Speaker 1: true shooting percentage the year prior and that year were

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Speaker 1: pretty good. It was remarkable that his body recovered to

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Speaker 1: do what he did.

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Speaker 2: And before we get.

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Speaker 1: To the next season, which is another heartbreaker, I just

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Speaker 1: want to resee when we asked him if he's a

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Speaker 1: cat or a dog because it's super fun. I'll remember

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Speaker 1: asking him that at the All Star Game months before

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Speaker 1: he got hurt. That first time we asked All Stars,

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Speaker 1: is Russell Westbrook a cat or a dog? Because it

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Speaker 1: was extremely extremely important to us, and this was Russell's answer,

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Speaker 1: would you consider yourself more of a cat or more

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Speaker 1: of a dog. People are debating this.

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Speaker 2: There's it's both sides.

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Speaker 1: You're a wolf. Okay, you want to explain that a

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Speaker 1: little bit.

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Speaker 2: Nope, let the fans figure it out. What the fan

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Speaker 2: figure it out.

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Speaker 1: Nobody wanted nobody wanted to call themselves a cat. That's

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Speaker 1: just the way it is, the reluctance to label yourself

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Speaker 1: as a cat. And obviously right every single every single

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Speaker 1: All Star there, JD was just not having it. What

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Speaker 1: do you mean, whether they don't want to be they

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Speaker 1: don't want to be considered a.

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Speaker 3: Care no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, but he couldn't

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Speaker 3: be more cat like in his answer. His entire demeanor,

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Speaker 3: his out his skin tight black T shirt like he's

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Speaker 3: and just the way he's just sort of side eyeing

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Speaker 3: you and just sort of being so aloof he.

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Speaker 1: I know, I know.

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Speaker 2: I never turned his head backwards.

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Speaker 1: Like that like that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're not watching on YouTube, he's like full

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00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:50,600
Speaker 2: back to you, but somehow still his full face towards it.

432
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:51,479
Speaker 2: I don't know he does that.

433
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's like an owl in that he can somehow

434
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,080
Speaker 1: his fine as fine, you gotta you got a nice

435
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:01,879
Speaker 1: screen drive if you on YouTube where he was able

436
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 1: to turn around like he's got his back to me.

437
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,840
Speaker 1: I guess it's sort of the end of media day

438
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:12,120
Speaker 1: and he's kind of done in general. But yeah, it

439
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:13,200
Speaker 1: was he may.

440
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,119
Speaker 3: As well be perched on a window sill, you know,

441
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:21,960
Speaker 3: like looking back at you. Yeah, so himself, Hey, nothing

442
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,199
Speaker 3: wrong with being a cat. Well, yeah, that's why I

443
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 3: bring a flexes nine lives all of that. Like, cats

444
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,879
Speaker 3: are awesome. So I don't know, you know, that's.

445
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 1: Why there's twenty four people in there, twenty four men

446
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,200
Speaker 1: who are NBA All stars that were very, very very

447
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:40,120
Speaker 1: reluctant to lay themselves. No one used the word pussy cat,

448
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 1: you know, to associate them with that. They just don't.

449
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,359
Speaker 1: They just automatically connect it with that. No, I'm not

450
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 1: I'm not that where I'm not a They connected with

451
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 1: being a female. I'm not sure. You know, it's dumb.

452
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:56,399
Speaker 1: Cats are cool, but anyway for us, he could be

453
00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 1: a wolf.

454
00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:58,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a wolf. He has a wolf. He has

455
00:22:58,960 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 2: a lone wolf.

456
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, this whole thing with him and Kevin Durant,

457
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 1: you definitely go back on and think if no one

458
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 1: gets hurt, would relationship be different. Going back and watching

459
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 1: these highlights, they hugged a lot, they were cool. They

460
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:19,119
Speaker 1: were on a special route after reaching the finals against

461
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 1: the Miami Heat. And yes, the Miami Heat were also

462
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,680
Speaker 1: ascending because that was you know, year ten and year

463
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 1: eleven for Lebron. I mean he won in year nine,

464
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 1: and then year ten they got back there, and year

465
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,120
Speaker 1: eleven they got back there as well. So it's easy

466
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,200
Speaker 1: to say, yeah, the Heat would have taken care of them,

467
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 1: but okay See's ascension was just knocked off the cliff

468
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 1: there a little bit, and it hurt. And obviously, as

469
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 1: Kevin Durant, we get to our last topic here, what

470
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 1: if Kevin Durant never got injured him in the way

471
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 1: he changed the way he thought about things in okay

472
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,879
Speaker 1: See obviously changed the following season. So we go from

473
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,119
Speaker 1: they're the one seed, Patrick Beverley takes Outrussell Westbrook in

474
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 1: that first season, it lingers into the second season they

475
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: don't win, and then this third season some people expected

476
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 1: okay See to continue that ascendence. Finally for the first

477
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 1: time since they went to the finals. They looked healthy

478
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 1: coming in eight people from the ESPN predicted they would

479
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 1: go to the finals. Your big ESPN names, your respected

480
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 1: ESPN names like Windhurst and McMahon and Stein and David Thorpe.

481
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 1: All thought the Thunder would get there. I don't a

482
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: lot pick the Spurs of course, to get back. But

483
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,959
Speaker 1: it ended up being Durant missing most of this season

484
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:34,639
Speaker 1: and the team missed the playoffs for the first time

485
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 1: in a long time. Because Durant had that quote Jones

486
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,920
Speaker 1: fracture as it's called, in his right foot, and we

487
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 1: were talking back then, well, Durant come back period, right,

488
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:49,120
Speaker 1: We all had that idea in twenty fourteen, fifteen seven

489
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 1: foot or yeah, he's seven feet seven foot, are hurting

490
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 1: his foot like that? Will he be able to come back,

491
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 1: especially with the way that the season ended for Durant

492
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: because it was in February he had a second surgical

493
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 1: per on his right foot and he's listed out. He

494
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 1: listed as out for just one week and then Sam

495
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 1: Presty said a month later he's indefinitely out for a while,

496
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:12,439
Speaker 1: and then a week later he said, you know what,

497
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,719
Speaker 1: he's out for the season. So it looked pretty bleak

498
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 1: that he played just twenty seven games. Yeah, Okayse was

499
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,399
Speaker 1: eighteen and nine when he played, but it looked like

500
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,880
Speaker 1: from the three years prior, the Thunder had a young

501
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 1: corps looked set to dominate the NBA for a long time. Instead,

502
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 1: year's a bad injury. They never got to their true

503
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 1: potential if they're both healthy, and that set up Durant's

504
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 1: season before he left, so he would come back for

505
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: the fifteen to sixteen season as his final season with Okase.

506
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think this is a huge what if actually,

507
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 2: because the twenty fifteen season was kind of a transitional

508
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 2: period because Lebron had gone from the Heat to the Calves.

509
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 2: That season the Warriors, they ended up winning sixty seven games,

510
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 2: but coming into this season, nobody really knew that they

511
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 2: were going to become the Warriors, and that's f Curry

512
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 2: was going to become an MVP player. Meanwhile, you've got

513
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 2: a Thunder team that had their twenty twelve finals when

514
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 2: they were competitive against the Heat. He had Westbrook average

515
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 2: in twenty seven points per game, had a forty three

516
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:16,199
Speaker 2: point game, and that finals against peak Lebron peak d

517
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,919
Speaker 2: Wade twenty thirteen. Obviously, the injury, I think that is

518
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 2: definitely a what if. Even if I think that they're

519
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 2: probably the third best team in the league that year.

520
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 2: Twenty fourteen, for me, nobody's beaten the Spurs in the

521
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 2: Western Conference. And then twenty fifteen, though, things have changed

522
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 2: enough that you think that the Thunder have probably learned

523
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 2: lessons they could if they're healthy. They are looking good

524
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 2: and one of the most competitive teams out there. But

525
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 2: with Kevin Durant out, you go back and you watch

526
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 2: some of the highlights from this season and the team

527
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 2: just stinks. Man Westbrook is diaming up Mitch McGarry and

528
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 2: Anthony Morrow. They don't have the right players as supporting

529
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 2: cast here to really be competitive. I don't think in

530
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 2: the Western Conference Westbrook leads the league in usage rate

531
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,880
Speaker 2: and score. They only win forty five games finish out

532
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 2: of the playoffs. But this is kind of like the

533
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 2: first time you see what would a team look like

534
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 2: if Russell Westbrook was the absolute number one guy. Because

535
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 2: with Durant out, he had to take over. He had

536
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 2: to take a much bigger share of everything that's going

537
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 2: on with the Thunder. So yeah, I think that this

538
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 2: is just kind of a lost season for the Thunder.

539
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 2: It sets things up for the twenty fifteen to sixteen

540
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:27,919
Speaker 2: season with Durant coming in as a free agent, a

541
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 2: lot of pressure on the team, and we know how

542
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 2: it ended up turning out. They blow a three one

543
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 2: lead against the Warriors, and honestly, Westbrook was pretty brutal

544
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 2: in Game six and Game seven of that series.

545
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can look back, as you brought up Mitch McGarry.

546
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 2: To other what ifs.

547
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 1: What if they held James Harden thereageet of Serge Ibaka,

548
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: if they had to pick one, or what if they're

549
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:56,880
Speaker 1: in another another organization, just another market rather than Okayc's saying, Hm,

550
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: we got to pick one Hardener or Baka, why couldn't

551
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: they just keep both? Unfortunately, they weren't ready to pay

552
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 1: the luxury tax and keep their best players, So you

553
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 1: start looking around. As I said, Reggie Jackson in his

554
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: rookie playoff season, his first playoff season, had to take

555
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 1: over a point guard. It goes on and on. Kendrick

556
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 1: Perkins was obviously their starting center. They brought in Derek

557
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: Fisher to try and shore up the point guard spot.

558
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: It's just it's endless when you look at the supporting

559
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 1: cast and whether or not they could have and should

560
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:28,360
Speaker 1: have kept their stars, because.

561
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 2: It would have been different. Well, they could have, and

562
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 2: they should have. They could have kept hard and it

563
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 2: was like a less than ten million dollar difference on

564
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 2: the deal that they ended up having to trade him.

565
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 2: They did get some decent pieces out of it, like

566
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 2: Kevin Martin became important for the Thunder. Steven Adams is

567
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 2: actually huge in the twenty fifteen to sixteen season, like

568
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 2: the interplay between Russell Westbrook and Kevin Durant. A huge

569
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 2: part of it, I think is because Steven Adams is

570
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 2: setting a screen either for Westbrook or for Durant, They're

571
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 2: actually working off each other a ton, because early in

572
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 2: their careers it was definitely your turn, my turn, like

573
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 2: Westbrook and Durant or buddies. They were rooting for each other.

574
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 2: But like you watch it back, it's like I'm isoing,

575
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 2: now it's your turn to ISO. They figured out how

576
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 2: to play together. But when you look at the twenty

577
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 2: fourteen to fifteen season, if Kevin Durant goes down and

578
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 2: you haven't traded James Harden, who cares, You still got

579
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 2: hardened in Westbrook. You would still be one of the

580
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 2: best teams in the Western Conference. Instead, they finish out

581
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 2: of the playoffs and have a ton of pressure going

582
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 2: into the next year when or you're losing your best player.

583
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, it helped naturally that Steven Adams grew into

584
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 1: that post finals team because it was Kendrick Perkins starting

585
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,959
Speaker 1: and Steven Adams was just starting as a youngster. But

586
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: Steven Adams was fantastic with that team. He would just

587
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: fit so perfectly. If they had hard in there, of

588
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: course they should have, but they obviously financially couldn't couldn't

589
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: convince the owner to do it, and that was the problem.

590
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: It's all about It's all about money in this case,

591
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: because James Harden obviously grew and wanted a bigger role

592
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 1: and that was a huge part. He was coming off

593
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 1: the bench for the team that went to the NBA

594
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 1: Finals and he wanted to change it, and Daryl Morey

595
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 1: was there to say, oh right, why don't you come

596
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 1: be our star? And he was able to dribble every

597
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 1: single time, which would never really have happened with ok see.

598
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 1: But he was a damn good defender even on those

599
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 1: teams in the NBA Finals, And I mean, I guess

600
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: we could have what if every single game of that

601
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 1: NBA Finals against the Miami heat. What if they don't

602
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:30,719
Speaker 1: or or call the tiny little push from Lebron James

603
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 1: in game in game two because they won game one, yep,

604
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 1: and then they lost four straight as a young team.

605
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: That's probably a big factor why he lose four straight games.

606
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 1: So here we are, Yeah, they look like.

607
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 2: The younger team in the finals. I remember Hardin had

608
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 2: one I think he had maybe one twenty point game

609
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 2: in the twenty twelve finals and he had like fourteen

610
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 2: of those in one half, So to me, he had

611
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 2: one good half in the finals. And then you see

612
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 2: the way Harden's career has progressed. Maybe we don't expect

613
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 2: a ton from him in those situations, but yeah, keeping

614
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 2: the three of them together. They show them on the

615
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 2: bench at the end of the finals as Lebron is celebrating,

616
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 2: and you're like, this is the team that's going to

617
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 2: be taken over here, Cargan, Westbrook, Durant. They would all

618
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 2: go on to win MVPs in their career and that

619
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 2: was literally the last time we saw them browing down

620
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 2: on the sidelines plotting for next year, and then it

621
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 2: next year never happens. Yeah, disappointing.

622
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 1: It is disappointing looking back it was the last time

623
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 1: they were browing. What was what was the bro named

624
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: the Brington's. Yeah, that was Jeff Green.

625
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 2: Jeff Green was a Brington for sure.

626
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,479
Speaker 1: That was early. Were any were those guys in the

627
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 1: Brington Who was in it amongst the.

628
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 2: Wasn't a Durant Westbrook and Jeff Green? That was like

629
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 2: their big three to start. Yeah, yeah, and maybe Hardin

630
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 2: was part of it. I don't think Abaca was. That

631
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 2: was one thing I didn't I didn't research. I got

632
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 2: into a whole bunch of other stuff. The twenty sixteen

633
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 2: Western Conference Finals. I mean, that's a huge disappointment for

634
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 2: the Thunder as well. They are up three to one

635
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 2: again the Warriors in Game six. Ok See is leading

636
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 2: the entire time this game. They are leading into the

637
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 2: fourth quarter. They have the game at home. It's three

638
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 2: to two at this point because the Warriors were able

639
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 2: to take Game five back in Golden State, but Golden

640
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 2: State ties things up for the first time with two

641
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 2: and a half minutes left. Again, They're playing at home

642
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 2: and Okse has led the entire game. A lot of

643
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 2: the buckets, a lot of these drives of Curry getting

644
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 2: into the lane and then finding Klay Thompson for a

645
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 2: record amount of playoff three pointers Game six. Clay was

646
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 2: really born in this game. A lot of it is

647
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 2: Westbrook getting beat on drives or like the three pointer

648
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 2: that Clay makes where he's at the top of the

649
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 2: key and his feet are basically facing the sideline. Westbrook

650
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 2: has his hands down. The guys made ten threes at

651
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 2: that point. Doesn't make sense. Westbrook four turnovers in the

652
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 2: last two minutes of this game. In Game six, they

653
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 2: just completely completely threw it away against the Warriors, a

654
00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 2: team that obviously had championship mentality. The Thunder went three

655
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 2: of twenty three from three in this game. The Warriors

656
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 2: went twenty one to forty five. In the next game,

657
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 2: the Warriors go seventeen of thirty seven from three and

658
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 2: the Thunder goes seven for twenty seven. Westbrook went seventeen

659
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 2: for forty eight the last two games. I mentioned the

660
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 2: turnover problems, and you're just looking at the team they're

661
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 2: running out there. You're like Dion Waiters, Andre Robertson and

662
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 2: Ennis Cancer are getting huge minutes there. So if your

663
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 2: stars aren't playing great, Westbrook was kind of going a

664
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 2: little overboard, I thought in both Game six and Game seven,

665
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 2: and then you've cheaped out on the supporting cast, like

666
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 2: you get what you pay for, and that, unfortunately, is

667
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 2: what happened to the Thunder because they should have won

668
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 2: this series. They had the Warriors beat in the series,

669
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 2: and they had the Warriors beat in game.

670
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: Six, right, and then it results in Kevin Durant leaving.

671
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: And you can ask what if Draymond Green didn't have

672
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: Kevin Durant's cell number, because he was continuously texting in

673
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 1: the last few months of his career with Golden with

674
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 1: OKAC and saying, hey, why don't you come on over

675
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 1: to Golden State, and he did. A big reason was

676
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 1: because they gave up that three to one lead and

677
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 1: it was very difficult, I guess, for Kevin Durant to

678
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 1: say we're ever going to win because it just felt

679
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,879
Speaker 1: like again they went up, went up, went up, reached

680
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 1: that finals and then seemed to descend after that. So, yeah,

681
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,359
Speaker 1: you give somebody else your cell number, things can change.

682
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 1: You convinced him to come on over because and okay, see,

683
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 1: and their ownership is definitely a factor at that point.

684
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: We're watching here in twenty twenty four, a different OKAC

685
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,799
Speaker 1: team where things have been built. It seems like they

686
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 1: built a little bit more through the draft and they

687
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 1: are extremely strong going forward. It's a different team and

688
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 1: a nice you say.

689
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 2: That, because I mean this Thunder team was built entirely

690
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 2: through the draft.

691
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

692
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:51,760
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, Shake Killer just Alexander was a trade.

693
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 1: It was, it was, But I mean this is who

694
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 1: they are. They go and get draft picks, they wait,

695
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 1: they wait, they wait, they wait, they do they mean

696
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 1: their supporting cast is just way better now.

697
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 2: Yes than this was definitely true.

698
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: But yeah, they want to keep everything on the cheap obviously,

699
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: Like if there's a if J Dub can be offered

700
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 1: a max by someone else, are they going to match it?

701
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 1: I would hope. So they seem a little bit more.

702
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 2: We'll see what lessons they learned from this era. Because

703
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 2: everybody thought that that the twenty twelve Thunder were going

704
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 2: to be the next dynasty, it ended up being the Warriors.

705
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 2: Nobody would have expected that. We look at the Thunder. Now,

706
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,479
Speaker 2: they've got an MVP candidate in Shake guiltis Alexander. They've

707
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:39,320
Speaker 2: got two more perfect supporting stars in JDub and Chet Holmgrenn.

708
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 2: And then like you're saying they've actually got a really

709
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 2: deep supporting cast. A lot of these guys are on

710
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 2: early in their career contracts, so they're a little bit

711
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 2: cheaper right now. You're gonna have to pay up eventually.

712
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 2: And Sam Presty, he was the guy in charge back then,

713
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 2: he saw we didn't necessarily have a complete team to

714
00:35:57,880 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 2: compete with the best teams that were out there because

715
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,319
Speaker 2: at the teams, but the Thunder ended up losing to

716
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 2: It's like Lebron and the Heat. Okay, that's reasonable, the

717
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 2: beautiful game Spurs, that's reasonable, the beginning of the dynasty

718
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 2: for the Warriors, that's reasonable when you're going down like

719
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:17,399
Speaker 2: top eight versus top eight. Now a decade later, Sam

720
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 2: Presty has to say, we've got the top eight that's

721
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 2: the best in the league, and we've also got a

722
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 2: guy who could win MVP and shake Gil, just Alexander.

723
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:26,760
Speaker 2: How do we keep it together? How do we extend

724
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 2: this window so that it doesn't just turn into a

725
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 2: team that's winning forty five games and is a tough out,

726
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 2: which is what the Westbrook Thunder became.

727
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 1: Right Yeah, when OKAC was ascending, they couldn't and didn't

728
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,399
Speaker 1: go and get any player that would help them out

729
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 1: like they Again I mentioned Derek Fisher, that's who they

730
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: tried to get. If you look at this current Oka

731
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: see Thunder team, go and get Asaiah Hartenstein and able

732
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 1: to get Alex CRUs So those are help pieces. So

733
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: they are on a different sphere right now. They're in

734
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 1: a different world and it's obviously working.

735
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 2: Thus are Wait, so you're telling me you think this

736
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 2: Thunder team, current Thunder team is better compared to the

737
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 2: league than Westbrook Durant Thunder team compared to the.

738
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 1: League, compared to the league. No, I mean, I bring

739
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 1: up the what ifs we went through it, guys being

740
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 1: injured and not being good, and yeah, you had two

741
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,879
Speaker 1: MVPs on that team. Should they have kept the third

742
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 1: MVP yet and it would be different. I've just been

743
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: they're keeping things together and guys aren't getting hurt. So

744
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:32,840
Speaker 1: it's just they're doing it internally and adding little pieces

745
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:36,720
Speaker 1: the right pieces. So yeah, do I think would Chase

746
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 1: this Shade team beat Durant and Westbrook and fourteen or

747
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 1: fifteen or or whenever, that's the question. I guess not.

748
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 1: Who's stopping Durant. Nobody that's a decent one. That's a

749
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: decent question.

750
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's hear what people think twenty twelve or let's

751
00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 2: say I don't know what's the best Thunder team here.

752
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 2: Thunder did go to the finals. Yeah, versus the twenty

753
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:05,760
Speaker 2: twenty four Thunder, I guess it is the most recent

754
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 2: team we can look at. You can consider him the

755
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five Thunder. I will take the KD.

756
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 1: Westbrook era for sure. Yes, the supporting cast of Tabo

757
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 1: Cephalosha and Kendrick Perkins. It obviously hurt a little bit,

758
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 1: but again, if they are healthy, it's a different case.

759
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 1: It could have been a Toronto Raptors team that capitalized

760
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,400
Speaker 1: on one year one year window that they had where

761
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: you brought up a good point about Lebron leaving the

762
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 1: Cleveland Cavaliers or the Mimi heat excuse me for the

763
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: Cleveland Cavaliers, so things were differently. There could have been

764
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 1: a window if they're not hurt, and everything trickles down

765
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 1: to that effect. Russell Westbrook goes and tries in different spots.

766
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: He's now been dealt five times since winning MVP. That

767
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,839
Speaker 1: is the highest the most for an NBA MVP in

768
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 1: history to be traded five times after winning m v P.

769
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:07,280
Speaker 1: The next are just three time traders, current guy James

770
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:08,760
Speaker 1: Harden and then.

771
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 2: Some oldies that traded that many times.

772
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:16,360
Speaker 1: After winning MVP. It didn't end up being Shack. No,

773
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 1: he's it was just a two for him.

774
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess he was some free agent deals.

775
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:21,800
Speaker 1: It was really old, really old.

776
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 2: M VP who got traded a lot. Moses Malone.

777
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 1: Moses Malone is one of them. That's a good call.

778
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:32,760
Speaker 1: And guy a guy who's always forgotten about Bob.

779
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:37,320
Speaker 2: Yes, big Bob. No another Big Bob, Bob Lanier, Nope,

780
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 2: I'm not that Bob mcadi.

781
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: That's the way we always forget about Bob.

782
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:44,320
Speaker 2: You can just guess a Bob. Yeah, there will be

783
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 2: a power forward named Bob out there somewhere.

784
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean James Harden and Russell Westbrook were tired

785
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 1: at three, along with Mose Malone and Bob. I could do.

786
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 1: But Russ keeps getting traded. He went to the Rockets,

787
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:57,760
Speaker 1: went to Washington, went to the Lakers, went to the Clippers,

788
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 1: and now with the Nuggets. Here a a lot of

789
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: teams after this Okac run. But I do think this

790
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,320
Speaker 1: is a legitimate chance for him to win an NBA title.

791
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 1: And I wonder if they just brought him in because

792
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 1: there's gonna be guys in the starting lineup saying that

793
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 1: guy on the bench he's never won to be there,

794
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 1: sort of that motivator, and also just to be a

795
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 1: little bit russ like a little cocky, a little bit hey,

796
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 1: that isn't an attitude we need. Because they lost Bruce

797
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: Brown two years ago. They've obviously lost KCP as well.

798
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 1: There's gonna be a lot on Christian Brown's shoulders as

799
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: the starting small forward, as a young guy who's gonna

800
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 1: take kcp's role. But Russell Westbrook in just that that attitude,

801
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:37,359
Speaker 1: it's gonna be important to this team and.

802
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 2: We'll still see it's beneficial Westbrook's attitude. What do you mean, Well,

803
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 2: like I'm thinking about the Clippers last year, he agreed

804
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 2: to come off the bench. He was a good vibes

805
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 2: guy for the team. His effort, his athleticism, the attitude

806
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,439
Speaker 2: he played with was beneficial during the regular season when

807
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 2: people aren't always locked into the games and playing like

808
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 2: Westbrook can still have an effect. Then he gets to

809
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 2: the playoffs and his attitude is the same. He plays

810
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 2: the exact same way, and it's brutal, and he hurts

811
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 2: a team like the Clippers, even though he's coming off

812
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 2: the bench. I don't know if Westbrook's mindset for the

813
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 2: game is beneficial to a team, beneficial to a team

814
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 2: even like the Nuggets, right, Like they do need a

815
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 2: little bit of athleticism, a little bit of I'm taken

816
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 2: over from somebody else besides Jokic and Murray, both guys

817
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 2: who like let the game come to them. A lot

818
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 2: of the times, I think Westbrook will go out and

819
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 2: take the game. But unfortunately, sometimes Westbrook goes out and

820
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 2: takes the game. Yeah, even ten minutes can bury you

821
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:32,760
Speaker 2: in the playoffs.

822
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think it's necessarily about Westbrook's snarl. I

823
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 1: mean that's a positive. It is about Westbrook shooting too

824
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 1: much at times. Sure, yeah, that's what it's about. But

825
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:45,399
Speaker 1: I think that has developed more and more and more.

826
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:47,799
Speaker 1: And Russell Westbrook wasn't the reason that the Clippers lost. No,

827
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 1: they were unhealthy. It was Kawhi being Kawhi never healthy again.

828
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 1: He missed it, he missed he missed playing. I think

829
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 1: Russell Westbrook being able to say after the Rockets stays

830
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: after the Washington days and finally with the Los Angeles Lakers,

831
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 1: saying I can come off the bench. And so he's

832
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: done that with the Clippers and now it's the Nuggets.

833
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,919
Speaker 1: And I think, listen, there's not too many guys we've

834
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,879
Speaker 1: seen in history that are MVPs that have been able

835
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 1: to do this. That's fricking hard. Mello never worked never

836
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:16,400
Speaker 1: worked out at the beginning, but he finally learned at

837
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 1: the beginning at the end. That's one of the only

838
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:21,800
Speaker 1: guys who's ever done it. Westbrook two. Does he shoot

839
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 1: too much? Yeah? Does he shoot too many threes? Yeah?

840
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 1: Are there good videos of him trying to be a

841
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 1: three point shooter again in the offseason? Yes? Will they

842
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:32,360
Speaker 1: result in him being an incredible three point shooter?

843
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 2: No?

844
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 1: But they need him. I think it's more again, it's

845
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 1: more like just the guy who's loud. We were at

846
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:44,240
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty three finals and we're able to see

847
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 1: like Bruce Brown just being obnoxious, just being himself, you know,

848
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,279
Speaker 1: like those those they need that. They just have a

849
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 1: quiet Yokich is a very quiet leader. They just need

850
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: that type of guy. And I think that's a benefit.

851
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 1: Will it ended up being a championship, I mean, they

852
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 1: just need somebody to give them a little bit of attitude.

853
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,839
Speaker 1: I mean it hurts sometimes when he shoots too much,

854
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 1: that's for sure. Like the numbers are bad when you

855
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 1: look at the playoffs what he did for the Clippers, Yeah,

856
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 1: they're bad, But at the same time, it wasn't his

857
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:24,399
Speaker 1: problem like the starters Jokic again, Jokic feeding that him,

858
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 1: I think will be fine, and yeah, they're gonna play

859
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 1: for him. So TBD. I mean there's a huge questions

860
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 1: about that team starting lineup. Christian Brown's a great damn defender,

861
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,839
Speaker 1: I think. I think that's overlooked and why they let

862
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: KCP go. This ain't as Sam Presty think from twenty ten.

863
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 1: I don't think Calvin Booth should be it should be

864
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 1: hurt or talked about like he is a guy who

865
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 1: just let KCP go. I mean kcp's in his thirties. Yeah,

866
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,839
Speaker 1: he was the starting forward for two NBA championship teams.

867
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 2: He was damn good at that.

868
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 1: But do you have to pay Do you have to

869
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 1: pay him the way Orlando did? I don't think. So

870
00:43:58,040 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 1: They've got a lot of questions. Is Michael Porter Junior

871
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 1: gonna so they have other questions. I don't think Westbrook

872
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 1: is a primary question, but yeah, this is it. This

873
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 1: is like Rondo going to the Lakers and ended up winning. Like,

874
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:11,879
Speaker 1: he's not going to be a huge player on that team,

875
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 1: there's no doubt. But he's gonna be backup point guard,

876
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 1: that's for sure.

877
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess we'll see. I think if you're relying

878
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 2: a lot on Russell Westbrook right now, and I agree

879
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 2: with you. I think he's going to play minutes. I

880
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 2: think he's going to have a role for the Nuggets.

881
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 2: I think it's unlikely, but possible. He could move into

882
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:30,919
Speaker 2: the starting lineup at some point if Christian Brown doesn't

883
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 2: turn out the way that the Nuggets are expecting, or

884
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:35,799
Speaker 2: if somebody goes down with an injury, you know, if

885
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 2: Murray misses a little time, maybe he steps in or

886
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 2: something like that. But at this point in his career,

887
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 2: having Westbrook on your team, you can't expect much from

888
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:49,359
Speaker 2: him because the more responsibility you give him, I kind

889
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:53,239
Speaker 2: of think the poorer it's going to go. Unfortunately. Kind

890
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 2: of the story of Westbrook's career is that he wasn't

891
00:44:55,520 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 2: necessarily able to funnel that attitude and his athletics necessarily

892
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,319
Speaker 2: into winning basketball at all times. They won a lot

893
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 2: of games. He was an incredible floor razer, especially in

894
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 2: the regular season, but there were times in the tensest

895
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 2: moments where it was I'm gonna do this because I

896
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,799
Speaker 2: always do this, and sometimes he can just go over

897
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:19,799
Speaker 2: the edge. I'm thinking, like the twenty sixteen game six right,

898
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 2: like he's just doing too much. And Westbrook was never

899
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 2: able to sand off the edges of his game to

900
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 2: necessarily fit in, Like there could be a lot more

901
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 2: interplay back in the day between him and Kevin Durant.

902
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:33,800
Speaker 2: Like Kevin Durant, like I'm saying, he's the leader of

903
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 2: these teams, he's the MVP, he's the leading scorer, but

904
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 2: still you feel like Westbrook is the head of the

905
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 2: snake for the Thunder And looking back on it, shouldn't

906
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 2: it be the complete opposite way. Kevin Durant should be

907
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 2: the leading guy, he should be taken over. He should

908
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:50,879
Speaker 2: be the one that touches the ball every single time

909
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:52,879
Speaker 2: in the last two minutes. And it's the flip side

910
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:56,359
Speaker 2: of things. And similar to Alan Iverson later in his

911
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 2: career when he wasn't able to kind of progress to

912
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 2: the next step where you're not the number one guy anymore,

913
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,279
Speaker 2: but you're still a vital piece of the team. If

914
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:06,400
Speaker 2: you can figure out how to fit into a team concept,

915
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:09,760
Speaker 2: I figure out. I feel like Westbrook, his tremendous talents

916
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 2: kind of allowed him to not fit in early on

917
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:14,319
Speaker 2: in his career, but now that he's on the later

918
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 2: part of his career, not fitting in is a little

919
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 2: more hairy for his teams.

920
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: All fair, they are fairy hairy points that he hasn't

921
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:26,239
Speaker 1: been able to fit in. I mean, he needs to

922
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 1: have an awesome starting lineup for him to be able

923
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 1: to have a ring at the end of his career.

924
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,400
Speaker 1: Like it was veering that way with the Lakers a

925
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 1: little bit, but the Lakers didn't have enough of a

926
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 1: starting lineup for him to come off the bench. It

927
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,360
Speaker 1: was veering that way with the Clippers too. If Kawhi

928
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,240
Speaker 1: and Paul George are healthy, I mean, Kawhi is awesome

929
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,280
Speaker 1: in playoffs, but he doesn't play in playoffs. The Clippers

930
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 1: run has been tumultuous, obviously, it's been very bad, so

931
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 1: he can't play a lot. And so you're right in

932
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 1: that if you go back and say, what if Westbrook

933
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 1: and Durant were a little bit more let's play together

934
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:05,399
Speaker 1: rather than my turn, your turn, because even with those

935
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 1: supporting casts that weren't funomenal. As I mentioned Tablo cephalosha,

936
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 1: Hey he can hit a shot. Kendrick Perkins, Hey, he

937
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:15,319
Speaker 1: can win a championship. But like, there are a bunch

938
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 1: of guys that if they had a little bit better

939
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 1: camaraderie then maybe it's different. And if they had fewer

940
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,880
Speaker 1: injuries then maybe it's different as well. The hope with

941
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 1: the Denver Nuggets is that he doesn't play a ton.

942
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 1: He only played nineteen minutes per game last year in

943
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 1: the playoffs coming off the bench. That's the max. Really,

944
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 1: I mean, he's got he's got to be like a

945
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 1: guy you don't think of as Russell Westbrook anymore because

946
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 1: he shouldn't be that. It's just not the hot it's

947
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:43,319
Speaker 1: not the peak of his career. We're talking about a

948
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:47,840
Speaker 1: totally different time and the numbers are very bad shooting

949
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 1: the ball. When it comes to those games, he just

950
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 1: has to be Yeah, as I said, like fourteen to

951
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes, I mean, Bruce Brown probably isn't the the

952
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 1: eight to eight. It's not an apples comparison because played

953
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:03,880
Speaker 1: a lot Russell Westbrook should play fewer minutes in that,

954
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 1: but I do think they have a legitimate chance. Obviously,

955
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 1: there's other issues, and Jamala Murray's is another one. It

956
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 1: would have been a different playoffs if he was healthy.

957
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: I would think with the way they lost in seven

958
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:19,240
Speaker 1: games to the Minnesota Turmvolves, that's it for this one.

959
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 1: As you said right off the top, there very similar

960
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 1: to Derreck Rose's career and that ascension and then that

961
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 1: dissension very quickly. So we will be back next week

962
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:32,439
Speaker 1: for more shows before the season. And does Derrick Rose

963
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 1: deserve to be MVP? I think will be that first show,

964
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 1: because that's a great question.

965
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 2: He would be the only MVP in the league's history

966
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 2: who doesn't make the Hall of Fame up until his career.

967
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think that one is worth checking. In.

968
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:49,359
Speaker 2: One thing when I was watching back to the two

969
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 2: thousand and eight draft they didn't mention is that Russell

970
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:55,239
Speaker 2: Westbrook is a much much better healer than Derreck Rose.

971
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 2: Because Derek Rose got hurt and Derek Rose stayed hurt

972
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 2: for a long time. Westbrook, like you're saying, this guy

973
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 2: would get meniscus and play the rest of the game.

974
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 2: He missed like half the season. The next year, came

975
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:08,479
Speaker 2: back and played a bunch more. There was a time

976
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:10,800
Speaker 2: when Russell Westbrook got hit in the face, had a

977
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:12,800
Speaker 2: dent in his face, didn't miss a game, Maybe he

978
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:15,480
Speaker 2: missed one game, came back immediately and had like a

979
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 2: hole in his face. Yeah, guys like indestructible. So even

980
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 2: his injuries, he was always healing fast, like when he

981
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 2: came back, probably a little bit too early during the

982
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:28,080
Speaker 2: thirteen to fourteen season. He came back early, you know,

983
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 2: even coming off of two knee surgeries. So yeah, Westbrook,

984
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:34,839
Speaker 2: if you're in the Healing Hall of Fame, I would

985
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:38,399
Speaker 2: take him ahead of Derreck Rose. But man, things I'll

986
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 2: tell like my kids about Westbrook or you know, I

987
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:43,359
Speaker 2: do actually have kids right now, and I don't tell

988
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 2: him that much about Russell Westbrook. So I what I'll

989
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 2: tell their my grandkids about Russell Westbrook. Tremendous player, one

990
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:52,360
Speaker 2: of the best athletes that's ever been on an NBA

991
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 2: basketball court. Like you watched the twenty twelve finals, and

992
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 2: he might be the best athlete out there playing alongside

993
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:00,800
Speaker 2: Lebron and d Wade in the pro of their career.

994
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 2: He looks like a different guy. He also is one

995
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 2: of He's got to be one of the guys in

996
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,760
Speaker 2: the top five for playing hardest, because it doesn't matter

997
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:12,400
Speaker 2: if you're playing against the Bucks in February. You know

998
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,280
Speaker 2: the classic scenario, a Tuesday night in February and Milwaukee

999
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 2: Westbrook is giving you Game seven up Finals energy, just

1000
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 2: like he would in Game seven of the Finals. The

1001
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:24,720
Speaker 2: guy plays hard. He leaves it out there on the court.

1002
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 2: You never question his effort. He's gonna be out there,

1003
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 2: He's gonna do everything he can. Sometimes he goes a

1004
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:35,280
Speaker 2: little haywire, but still a super fun player to watch

1005
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 2: and quite the career, the ups and the downs. The

1006
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:42,400
Speaker 2: records that he's put up, like four triple doubles seasons,

1007
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 2: has become underrated because Russell Westbrook had so many triple doubles,

1008
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 2: people got tired of it. They're like, oh, stat padding rebounds,

1009
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:51,759
Speaker 2: and a little bit of that is true, but they

1010
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:53,839
Speaker 2: also needed it because who else is going to score

1011
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 2: on that team? Sometimes their best option was Westbrook grab

1012
00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 2: the ball off the board, bring it up and shoot

1013
00:50:58,480 --> 00:50:58,880
Speaker 2: a layup.

1014
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 1: Right. The comparison to Derrek Rose is just strictly because

1015
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:06,399
Speaker 1: they want an MVP but they didn't win it all

1016
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:07,320
Speaker 1: and got a little injured.

1017
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 2: But yes, same draft. They were very very similar players.

1018
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 2: Rose was better, but he got.

1019
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:17,919
Speaker 1: Hurt and theater Yeah, very different unless Russell Westbrook had

1020
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 1: he had a dent in his face. I remember that.

1021
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 1: I guess. I guess that was like did they use

1022
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:24,960
Speaker 1: like the suction cup thing that they used on cars

1023
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 1: like to plunder? Yeah, exactly, maybe to get a dent out. Anyways,

1024
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:31,840
Speaker 1: we will talk about Derek Rose and whether he deserves

1025
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 1: to be in that hall. We will talk about that.

1026
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 1: Make sure you're subscribed. Also make sure you're commenting, let

1027
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:38,719
Speaker 1: us know how you're feeling. Also make sure you leave

1028
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:42,880
Speaker 1: us a review on any podcast platform. Speaking of podcast platform,

1029
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 1: check out No Buffs that you guys will be recording

1030
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:50,440
Speaker 1: later on today episode to recap from season forty seven,

1031
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 1: which was also exciting, also a very outwardly just just

1032
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 1: talk and type of is there is there any Is

1033
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:05,719
Speaker 1: there any comparison to Russell Westbrook with the character who

1034
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 1: I won't I guess I won't spoil it, but there

1035
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:12,759
Speaker 1: was a character. Yeah, there's a character who talked a lot.

1036
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 2: No, people didn't like we're losing some favorites. Early on.

1037
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:19,960
Speaker 2: I feel like in this season so far, JD, what

1038
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 2: do you think to to you know, I mean disappointing

1039
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:29,719
Speaker 2: for us viewers, No, doubt's just because there are a

1040
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:31,799
Speaker 2: couple of characters coming into the season. We thought we

1041
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 2: were gonna like, yeah, but tune in. What time do

1042
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 2: you want to go?

1043
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 1: J D?

1044
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:38,280
Speaker 3: Twelve thirty Yeah, yeah, let's.

1045
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:41,760
Speaker 2: Go twelve twelve thirty, twelve thirty pm Eastern no bus.

1046
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, but just just hit the little bell and he

1047
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 3: decided to go early.

1048
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 1: We'll go early. Appreciate it. Maybe you can just keep

1049
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:50,799
Speaker 1: this song going because we've been letting it.

1050
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 2: Go for all out.

1051
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:56,160
Speaker 3: You said we're wrapping it up, so I hit them.

1052
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 2: No, No, I'm not, I'm not. I'm not.

1053
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 1: I'm not disagreeing with you. Start talking about Russ. You

1054
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 1: gotta talk about Russ.

1055
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 2: Grandkids.

1056
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 1: You gotta tell your kids about to just tell them

1057
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:06,840
Speaker 1: anymy to play that.

1058
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:09,399
Speaker 2: Tell your kids about Russell west Brown, Teach your kids

1059
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 2: about Russell. We we want some highlights. They won't believe

1060
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 2: how fast this guy is.

1061
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's why I want to go back. We're

1062
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 1: going back a decade that's a long time ago. And

1063
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:20,880
Speaker 1: Russell Westbrook was Yeah, he was on top. Things were

1064
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 1: different then until Patrick Beverfley he lunged where he sideswiped

1065
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:29,720
Speaker 1: or when hit that knee. Okay, song is over, CLIPPERD Bros.

1066
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 1: You heard it here first.

1067
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:34,760
Speaker 2: Have a great time, turn up, love you guys awesome,

1068
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:38,200
Speaker 2: thanks for joining us. And remember Russell Westbrook used to

1069
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:42,279
Speaker 2: wear glasses with no prescription? Why why not?

1070
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:43,799
Speaker 1: Great? Why not?

1071
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 2: Great? Why not?

1072
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:47,360
Speaker 1: I bought those why not shoes that he had because

1073
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:48,560
Speaker 1: why not