1 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: There's a core idea in science that experiments should be repeatable. 2 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 2: If you do an experiment the same way different times, 3 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 2: you should get the same result. 4 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:19,759 Speaker 1: However, there is a loophole. 5 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 2: There's a loophole in science. 6 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that loophole opens a window into everything we 7 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: think is true about reality, in the universe and everything. 8 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 2: Welcome to Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe. 9 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: In which we try to take the entire universe and 10 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: break it into bite sized pieces so you can enjoy 11 00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: them with your afternoon coffee. 12 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 2: I'm more I'm a cartoonist, I draw comics online. 13 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: And I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist. I spend my 14 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: days smashing protons together at the large Hadron colliders to 15 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:10,680 Speaker 1: try to reveal the secrets of the universe, mostly so 16 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 1: that I can tell them to you in this podcast. 17 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 2: Basically, only one of us is qualified to be explaining 18 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 2: things to you on this podcast. 19 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: That would be the cartoonist. Yeah, physicists are not qualified 20 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:24,279 Speaker 1: usually to be explainers. Mostly we just try to solve 21 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: the mysteries of the universe. We don't try to tell 22 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 1: anybody about them, right. 23 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 2: Mostly physicists just need explaining. 24 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: That's right, that's where the cartoons come in. 25 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, and spouses also, spouses of physicists probably have 26 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 2: to do a lot of explaining. 27 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: You've got some explaining to do, exactly. Yeah. So we're 28 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: here to talk to you about big questions about the universe. 29 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:47,639 Speaker 1: And today's question is a really deep and basic question, 30 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: and it's about the very nature of reality. What is it? 31 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: What are we going to talk about today? 32 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 2: Is the universe random or is it just chaotic? And 33 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 2: what it's the difference? 34 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: Or is it run by some super being? And we're 35 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 1: actually just in their simulation. But that's a whole other episode. 36 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 2: That's a whole other podcast. 37 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: Right today, just the two sinister options, random or chaotic, 38 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: you might feel like, ooh, neither of those sound very cozy. 39 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: I don't want to live in either of those universes. 40 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 2: Well, the question basically breaks down to is the universe predictable? 41 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 2: Like can you predict what the universe is going to do? 42 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 2: Or is it that nobody can predict what the universe 43 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 2: is going to do? 44 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: Right? And I think that's why it's an awesome question 45 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: for science because for so many thousands and thousands of years, 46 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: I think humans probably felt like the universe around them 47 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: was totally unpredictable. I mean they invented gods for this 48 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: and for that to try to describe how the universe 49 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: was out of their control and doing things that didn't 50 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: make sense, as if it had some you know, will 51 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:51,519 Speaker 1: and agency. Right, Yeah, And then science comes along. It says, actually, 52 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: there are rules and you can discover them. And slowly 53 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 1: science starts to creep in this description of the universe 54 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:01,359 Speaker 1: that locks out this agency, this idea, this personality, and 55 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: gives you the sense that maybe the universe follows these rules. 56 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 2: Right. So we went out and as usual'll ask people 57 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 2: on the street do you think the universe is random 58 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 2: or chaotic? 59 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: And here's what they had to say. 60 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 3: That's gonna okay, that's a that's a thinker right there. 61 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 3: I would say, surely random. With randomness comes chaos. You 62 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 3: never know what will happen, but there's there's always a 63 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 3: probability and a chance of things, of certain things happening. 64 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 2: I'd like to say random. I'm religious, so I feel 65 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 2: like everything happens for a reason, and yes it is random, 66 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 2: but there's a purpose behind everything. I think it's a 67 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 2: mixture of both, Like it's random, but it can appear 68 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 2: chaotic because of how. 69 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 4: Everything is truly chaotic, because like on a smaller level, 70 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 4: everything is like moving really fast, but at like a 71 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 4: bigger level, we don't see any of that. 72 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: Wow, So would you think of those answers or hey. 73 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 2: I think they were all over the place. They were 74 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 2: actually kind of random. 75 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, they were random and chaotic. I feel like I 76 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: feel like people had no idea what I was asking them. 77 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 2: You know, I feel like people just I feel like 78 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 2: they had no idea what they were answering. 79 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 1: Some of those people. I remember recording these interviews, and 80 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: some of those people as the words were coming out 81 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: of their mouth, I felt like they surprised them as 82 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 1: much as they did me. Like it was all over 83 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: the place. 84 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I feel like some people it's interesting. Some 85 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 2: people related to that question to the other question, which 86 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 2: is like does the universe have a purpose, Like do 87 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 2: things happen for a reason or do they is it 88 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 2: just like a random role to die and nobody's really 89 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 2: in charge? Like that's the question, right, Like is somebody 90 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,479 Speaker 2: in charge of the universe or is it impossible for 91 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 2: anyone to kind of predict what it's going to do? 92 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're right. That does get at the 93 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 1: heart of the question. You know, what's going to happen 94 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 1: in the universe and can we tell and can we 95 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 1: influence it? Right? Is the universe sort of churning on 96 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:01,720 Speaker 1: without our ability to change direction at all in some 97 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: sort of way that's been determined since the dawn of time? 98 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: Or can we nudge it and push it in one 99 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 1: way or the other? You know, make the Calves win? 100 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: Or can you if you jump up and down in 101 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 1: front of your television enough where the Warriors win another 102 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 1: NBA championship? You know, can you influence the world? I 103 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: think that's an interesting and deep question. Yeah, that's probably 104 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 1: the one people were actually having in their mind. 105 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, so may let's go back in history. And I 106 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 2: like how you think about this question a lot, Daniel, 107 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 2: which is that you sort of start with early man, 108 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,840 Speaker 2: like the cave men and woman and women, early humans, 109 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 2: we're really just kind of at the mercy of all 110 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 2: the elements and all the animals out there and the 111 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 2: weather and so they to them, the universe was this crazy, 112 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 2: random and chaotic place, right. 113 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, And it actually it touches on sort of my 114 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: personal theory of consciousness, which is that we develop this 115 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 1: awareness because we are looking out into the world for 116 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 1: other people or other ideas. Are there intelligences and we 117 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: have this hyperactive ability to see agency, to see intention 118 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:01,919 Speaker 1: in something that we don't understand, and we imagine that 119 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 1: there must be a mind behind it. And so I 120 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: think for a long time people's view the world was 121 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: that it was controlled by other greater minds. You know, 122 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: what controls the lightning? Why do some people die of disease? 123 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 1: All this stuff? 124 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 2: And then as there must be like a consciousness that 125 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 2: is shooting out these lightning bolts or making it rain, 126 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 2: or you know, making the sun come out, or. 127 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 1: Killing my baby of some horrible disease, right, like, there 128 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: must be. It's hard to live in this world if 129 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: you don't have the sense that there's somebody else in charge. 130 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: Right there's a lot of suffering and a lot of pain, 131 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 1: and a lot of unexplained events, and it's nice to 132 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: think somebody else out there is taking care of it, 133 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: or somebody's in charge of it. 134 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 2: But there's a reason, right. 135 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, that there's a reason that there's some design, it's 136 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 1: not just random. But then as history progresses, as we 137 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: were saying earlier, you know, science comes along it says, well, 138 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: there are seemed to be some rules, not just like 139 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 1: that anything can happen. You can't have an ostrich here 140 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:58,479 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden the ostrich is gone. 141 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 1: There are some rules that limit what can happen. If 142 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 1: you know what's happening now, there's a certain set of 143 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: possibilities for what can happen in one second and two seconds. 144 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: And you know that's physics, right. 145 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 2: Well, it started with like noticing patterns, right Like lining 146 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 2: doesn't just come out of nowhere, It comes out when 147 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,239 Speaker 2: there's these dark clouds in the sky, right. 148 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely absolutely, And people started noticing patterns and started 149 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: putting those together and then asking themselves, can I use 150 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: what I've learned in the past to predict the future? 151 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 2: Right? 152 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: Like, if I have the same set of events that 153 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: happened yesterday, I am I going to be able to 154 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: tell what's going to happen next week if the same 155 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: thing happens. If I roll a ball down the hill 156 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: yesterday and it goes up to a certain speed, will 157 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: the same thing happen tomorrow? 158 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 4: Right? Right? 159 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 2: Or if I throw a ball in the air and 160 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 2: I know which direction it's going and how fast it 161 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 2: is going. Can I predict where it's going to land exactly? 162 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 2: Where if I build a catapult, can I basically aim 163 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 2: it right exactly? 164 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: And that's how military technology drove science even hundreds of 165 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: years ago. Right Where do I shoot my cannon exactly 166 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: to get over that wall? Yeah? 167 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 2: Well that's kind of where Newton came in, right, Isaac Newton, 168 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 2: And that's why they say he kind of gave birth 169 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 2: to science, right, or at least the scientific revolution. 170 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: No, I think it was earlier than that. Newton came 171 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: along well after folks like Galileo and Francis Bacon and 172 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 1: those guys. They really were the first ones to do 173 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: experiments and to say, let's see what the rules of 174 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: the universe is following, and let's see if we can 175 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: try to deduce them and use those to predict the 176 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 1: outcome of future experiments. They really were the first ones 177 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: to connect the idea of a scientific universe to the 178 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: actual experiments they do to influence those ideas and to 179 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 1: predict future results. And I think that's the key is 180 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: that here we've developed a system science which can not 181 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: only explain what we've seen before, but can predict the future. 182 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: Now you are about to fire a cannon ball at 183 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: your enemy, you want to know where is that ball 184 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: going to fly? And it's incredible that physics can do that. 185 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: It can literally predict the future if you know enough 186 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:56,319 Speaker 1: about the situation right. 187 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 2: Right, It's kind of like Google Maps. Now it can 188 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 2: totally tell if you're going to be late to meeting 189 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 2: or not, or to a podcast recording they're going to 190 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 2: They're like, like, how long will it take you to 191 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 2: get home? They're like, oh, they're going to be late. 192 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 1: It's not always a hard problem though. Jege for example, 193 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:14,599 Speaker 1: it says if person equals whohe, then late equals true every. 194 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 2: Time every time. 195 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: Data predictable data, and some of these things are simple, 196 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: but some of these things are complicated, and it's incredible 197 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: to witness as physics sort of builds confidence and science 198 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 1: develops our ability to predict you know, chemical reactions and 199 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: biological functioning, all sorts of things, and then it gives 200 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: this creeping sense of is there anything that can escape science? Right? 201 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: Can science predict everything? Like if you knew enough about 202 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: the world, could you break it all down to cannonballs 203 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: to predict where all those cannonballs are going to fly 204 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: and then tell exactly what's going to happen. 205 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's like kind of like if you know 206 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 2: that force equals mass times acceleration like Newton figured out 207 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 2: they and you can predict things like cannon balls and catapults, 208 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 2: and you could possibly predict like how a room full 209 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 2: of particles move, right, Yeah, possibly you can extend that 210 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 2: to can you predict how the whole world works? Yeah, 211 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 2: what it's going to do, and what people are going. 212 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:19,559 Speaker 1: To do, extrapolate to the whole universe, right, Yeah, I mean, 213 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:22,679 Speaker 1: and that's the principle of determinism. It says, look, if 214 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: things follow rules, and the future is dependent only two things, 215 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: one the rules and two the things that are happening 216 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 1: now the current state. Right, given if you know exactly 217 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 1: where things are, imagine the whole universe is just a 218 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: bunch of tiny cannon balls, and you know the rules 219 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: of those cannonballs, and you know the position and direction 220 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,079 Speaker 1: of motion of all those cannonballs. Then in principle, given 221 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 1: a super powerful universe sized computer, you should be able 222 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 1: to predict the future one to five ten seconds into 223 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:52,079 Speaker 1: the future, a thousand seconds into the future. 224 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 2: Like every single molecule, atom, subatomic particle. You should be 225 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 2: able if it follows rules, you should be able to 226 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:00,559 Speaker 2: kind of track where it's going to go. Is should 227 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 2: tell you, based on where things are now, what's going 228 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 2: to happen exactly. It's kind of like this idea of 229 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 2: a clock, Right, is the universe giant clock just kind 230 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,439 Speaker 2: of clicking along or is there some kind of magic 231 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 2: inside of it that makes it unpredictable? 232 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: Right exactly? And the idea of the universe just being 233 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: a huge clock is both exciting and terrifying. Right. It's 234 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: exciting because like, wow, can you imagine we could understand 235 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: the universe that well, that we could predict the future, 236 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: think about what we could do, right, But it's terrifying 237 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: because it's sort of like you're trapped in this science 238 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 1: cage where you have no influence over the world, and 239 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 1: everything you do and know and say in that joke 240 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: you're gonna make, in that fart you're gonna let slip 241 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 1: are all predictable, right, All those things are predictable. That's scary. 242 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: It makes you feel like you are part of that 243 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 1: watch and you're just clicking along because of the you're 244 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 1: reacting to things around you in your initial conditions, and 245 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: so that's terrifying. 246 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 2: And I think we have kind of an innate sense 247 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 2: of like rejecting this idea that we're trapped. Right, everyone 248 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 2: wants to feel like they have a free will, Like 249 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 2: everyone wants to know that they have a choice. 250 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: Right, Well, I guess so my kids don't feel that way, 251 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 1: you know, like why did you hit your sister? Well 252 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 1: she hit me, you know, like, well, so what you 253 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: have no free will? Like you're completely determined by her behavior. 254 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: I have that argument with my kids so many times. 255 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: I'm always thinking about the philosophical echoes of that. 256 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 2: My kids are always rebelling. They're like, we want free will, 257 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 2: don't us what to do? 258 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: I see? But they want you to follow rules. They're like, 259 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 1: you promised daddy we could have ice cream, right, and 260 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: so therefore you have to there's no more decision to 261 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: be made. 262 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:34,599 Speaker 2: Kids are so unfair. 263 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,959 Speaker 1: They're philosophically inconsistent. I think it's really the problem with. 264 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, they cute, but if. 265 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: They just read some more Nietzsche, you know, and some 266 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: some Carl and some Popper or whatever, they would be 267 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 1: easier to be around. 268 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, forget those picture books. Let's introduce let's predict the universe. 269 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 1: I think there's something fascinating about the deterministic view of 270 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 1: the universe, but probably people out there thinking, Okay, maybe 271 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 1: in theory you could predict the whole universe, but in 272 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 1: practice that's impossible. I mean, you don't have a universe 273 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: sized computer to break the whole universe, and even to 274 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: predict like you know, a person is a huge number 275 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: of articles, and so to do that calculation just seems impractical, right. 276 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 2: Right, it's practically possible, But I think people revel just 277 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 2: to the idea of it, right, Like, are my thoughts 278 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 2: my thoughts or just something that I'm programmed and that 279 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 2: I will inevitably have and do. 280 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's a really deep question. And so we 281 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: started out with prehistoric man feeling like the universe is 282 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 1: full of random not random, but unexplained agency and intelligence 283 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: all the way to like now, scientific physical determinism says, actually, 284 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: the universe just clicks along like a watch, right, and 285 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: there's no free will. So let's take one step back 286 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: from that, and that's chaos. That says, well, maybe the 287 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: universe is deterministic, sure, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily 288 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 1: practical for you to predict it because the way things 289 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 1: play out is really sensitive to exactly how things started. 290 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 2: Well, I think some people who responded to their question 291 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 2: maybe weren't sure about the difference, right, Like, what's the 292 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 2: difference between something being chaotic and something being random? 293 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 1: Right? And so let's drill into that. So let's take, 294 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: for an example, the roll of a dice. Right, people 295 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: think of rolling dice as random, but actually it's chaotic, 296 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: meaning that it's hard to predict, but it is deterministic. 297 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 2: Oh what do you mean? 298 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: If you knew exactly how I threw the dice, like 299 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: exactly the direction and the spin and all the molecules 300 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: of the air, then you could treat them moll like 301 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: the little cannonballs, little particles, and you could model how 302 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 1: it rolls, and you could, in theory, predict exactly how 303 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: the dice rolled every time. 304 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 2: Meaning like if I'm seeing footage of you throwing to die, 305 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 2: and like I pause the video just as to die 306 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 2: leave your hands, then I could you know where they are, 307 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 2: I know which direction they're going, how fast are going. 308 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 2: I could run some kind of computer simulation to like 309 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 2: follow the die and predict what they're going to do 310 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 2: when they bounce off the table and roll around, I 311 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 2: could potentially predict what the dye are going to show. 312 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: That's right, because we're saying that the universe in that 313 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: case is deterministic, and so you should be able to 314 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 1: predict the future given enough information about the setup. Right now, 315 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: that's a hard problem, and that's why we use dice, 316 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: right because it's really difficult, and nobody can practically, like 317 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: bring a mini computer into Las Vegas and use that 318 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: to predict who's going to win it Craps, right though 319 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: in theory, In theory, you could if the universe was 320 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: deterministic but very sensitive to exactly how somebody's rolling the dice. Right, 321 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: when you throw the dice at Craps, if you flip 322 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 1: it this way or that way, then it's going to 323 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 1: bounce slightly differently, and how it's going to hit that 324 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: you know, the felt on the table. It's all very 325 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: very sensitive, and a very small change and how you 326 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: throw it can result in a totally different number. That's 327 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: what we mean by chaos. 328 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 2: It means that it's like the butterfly effect, right, like 329 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 2: the idea that if you butterfly flaps is wing here, 330 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 2: it's going to have a huge effect, maybe potentially on 331 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 2: the weather and on the other side of the world. Right, 332 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 2: it's like a very sensitive system. 333 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: That's right. The weather is a great example because we 334 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: understand all the processes of weather. I mean, it's hot air, 335 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: it's cold air, it's water. We know that stuff. It's 336 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: pretty simple chemistry. But all together, an entire planet is 337 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: really difficult to describe because it's huge and it's really sensitive. Like, 338 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: as you say, a butterfly flapping its wings in China 339 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 1: could change the way this air flows, which could change 340 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: the way that air flows, which bounces off this building, 341 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 1: which turns into a rainstorm, which collides with this cloud 342 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: and causes a hurricane. Right, it's not true that every 343 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: time a butterfly flaps its wings you get a hurricane. 344 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 2: But sometimes so weather is chaotic, but it's not random, 345 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 2: is that what you're saying? That ren Like, if we 346 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 2: could keep track of every single butterfly world flapping its wing, 347 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 2: we would be able to predict the weather if we 348 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,880 Speaker 2: had a giant supercomputer the size of the Solar System. 349 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 2: But since we don't, then weather it seems random. But 350 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 2: actually it's chaotic. 351 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 1: Exactly, And that's exactly what scientists are trying to do. 352 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 1: They're building bigger and bigger and faster computers to try 353 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: to simulate more and more of the Earth's atmosphere to 354 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: get better and better predictions of weather. In fact, I 355 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 1: think like all the top ten supercomputers in the world 356 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 1: are devoted to that problem, like modeling the weather, because 357 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: it's important. But you're exactly right, it's actually chaotic, meaning 358 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,400 Speaker 1: it's deterministic but really sensitive to exactly how it started. 359 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,919 Speaker 1: But it seems random because it's too difficult for us 360 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: to calculate, and principle we should be able to, but 361 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: we can't. Another example is flipping a coin. Right, Based 362 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 1: on how you flip the coin, you should be able 363 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: to model how it spins through the air and how 364 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: it bounces off air molecule and how it hits the 365 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 1: ground and where it lands right, But it's a difficult problem. 366 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 1: So we can use it to model randomness to say 367 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,160 Speaker 1: it's kind of like randomness. Really it's just chaotic though. 368 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 2: But then if I flip the coin one hundred times, 369 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 2: most likely half of those times will behead and half 370 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,399 Speaker 2: of those times will be tails. Right, So where does 371 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 2: that fit into chaos theory? Like why is it predictable 372 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 2: on a statistical basis? 373 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: Okay, so that's fascinating. That's an emergent phenomenon. Right. That says, 374 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,880 Speaker 1: if you understand the tiny little local laws of physics, 375 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 1: like the laws of how the particles inside the coin move, 376 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,679 Speaker 1: you should be able to predict some larger effect. And 377 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: it's true, there is a simple or description of that 378 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 1: larger effect, right, if you understand how these things work. 379 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: So physics works on these layers. Right, you can either 380 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: understand it a very low layer and try to model 381 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:41,959 Speaker 1: it all the way up to a higher layer, or 382 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: you can just try to get an understanding at a 383 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: higher layer, just the same way. You could say, well, 384 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,920 Speaker 1: I can understand the way canniball flies by modeling all 385 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 1: the particles inside of it, or you could just use 386 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 1: F equals M, which treats the whole cannibal like one particle. 387 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 1: If that's just a question of at what layer you're 388 00:18:57,960 --> 00:18:59,400 Speaker 1: modeling something, right. 389 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 2: Okay, so a coin is chaotic but not actually. 390 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: Random, but not actually random yet if the universe is deterministic, 391 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,199 Speaker 1: then a coin is chaotic but not actually random. 392 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, got it, got it. 393 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: But then there's the question of that's the Really the 394 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:18,199 Speaker 1: nugget of the question is is the universe deterministic? You know, 395 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 1: if you have a particle or a billiard ball or 396 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: a cannonball or whatever, and you understand direction it's going, 397 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 1: can you predict its future out into infinity? 398 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 2: Right? Right? 399 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: Can you tell exactly what's going to happen? 400 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,639 Speaker 2: But there's so many factors leading up to me tossing 401 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:36,159 Speaker 2: the coin that it's so unpredictable that it's it's it 402 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 2: feels random. 403 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: That's right. And so we have to separate between what's 404 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:43,160 Speaker 1: practical and what's in theory possible. Okay, anything that's chaotic. 405 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: We're saying, in theory, if you knew enough, you could 406 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: predict it, right, whereas but in practice that we can't. 407 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:53,399 Speaker 1: So it's it's it's so, it seems right, it seems random. 408 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 2: Random number of generators and computers when they try to 409 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 2: come up with a random number, it's not really random, 410 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 2: you're saying, it's just an an algorithm. That's chaotic. 411 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,640 Speaker 1: That's right. Computers by construction are deterministic, right, We've built 412 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 1: them to be deterministic. Every time you run a program, 413 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: it should give you the same answer. If you give 414 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: it the same input, right, there's no way for computer 415 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 1: to do anything but that. It's like a series of 416 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: logic gates. And you know, how it's implemented is not important, 417 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 1: but you know, it's a system for doing deterministic calculations. 418 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: That's what a computer is. So it's impossible for computer 419 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: to be truly random. All the random number generators in 420 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: your favorite Python code are actually pseudo orandom number generators. 421 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 1: They're just chaotic. They take a seed a number to 422 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: start from, and then they spin off of that and 423 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: generate a sequence of numbers. But if you give them 424 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: the same seed twice, they'll generate the same sequence of 425 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: numbers twice. 426 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 2: Wow. So like if you're playing a video game and 427 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 2: you're inside of a virtual world, that world is totally 428 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:52,679 Speaker 2: determinat absolutely it's been crunched on by a logical computer. 429 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: Exactly. You do the same move every time, You'll kill 430 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: that boss character every single time. And not even in 431 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: silly games like you know, like punch Out, where the 432 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 1: guy is totally predictable, but even in more complicated ones. 433 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,439 Speaker 1: You know, if you're in the same world and you 434 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: do the same thing, the same thing should happen. Because 435 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: computers are not capable of true randomness. 436 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:26,199 Speaker 2: Before we keep going, let's take a short break. So 437 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 2: the question is is our universe like a computer simulation? Right? Like, 438 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 2: the question is is is our universe also being crunched 439 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,119 Speaker 2: by a logical computer that can't be random? 440 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 1: That's right? And for a long time people thought the 441 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,199 Speaker 1: universe was deterministic. I mean, we were able to predict 442 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: the outcome of every experiment. Things were going along really well. 443 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 2: And then of course you can throw a spaceship and 444 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 2: land it on the moon. 445 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 1: That's pretty crazy, right, Yeah, that well, that's pretty risky, 446 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 1: but yeah, that's pretty amazing. You have to certainly have 447 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 1: confidence in our ability to predict the future if you're 448 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: going to get into that cannon ball get shot out 449 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: into space. Right. 450 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 2: Well, I remember in gratz Cloths in this classic it's 451 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 2: called linear dynamical systems. But I remember in class, this 452 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,679 Speaker 2: guy was so the professor was so cocky. He's like, 453 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,159 Speaker 2: of all the technologies that contributed to putting a man 454 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 2: on the moon, this is the one that made it happen. 455 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 1: Linear algebra. 456 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,200 Speaker 2: I kind of had this linear algebra equation, we would 457 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 2: not be able to put a man on the mood 458 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,879 Speaker 2: and so that's how powerful this idea is, right, like 459 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 2: if you can predict f equals in a you can 460 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:28,360 Speaker 2: put a man on the moon. 461 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. No, it's exactly right. And it's given us great 462 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 1: power over our environment. I mean, everything that we have 463 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 1: is because we have mastered a lot of the laws 464 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 1: of our environment and use them and bent them to 465 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: our will to improve our lives. Right, So it certainly 466 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: works and we rely on it every day. Every time 467 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 1: you get into a car or an airplane. You rely 468 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 1: on it working the same way it did yesterday, right, right, right, 469 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,879 Speaker 1: So that's that's a relief. But it was about one 470 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: hundred years ago when people started seeing things that they 471 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 1: couldn't explain, and it was quantum mechanics that told us 472 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 1: that maybe the universe is not deterministic. Maybe these little 473 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 1: particles don't follow the same rules that like billiard balls 474 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: and basketballs and larger objects follow, and maybe they're not 475 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 1: even deterministic, meaning if you do the same experiment twice 476 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: with tiny particles, you could get different outcomes, even if 477 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 1: you do it exactly the same way. 478 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 2: And this all came about when people started noticing that 479 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 2: like light and things had a minimum size, right, like 480 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 2: light doesn't come in infinitely small bits of light, like 481 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 2: there's chunks of light. 482 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, Einstein was looking at some experiments it 483 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,400 Speaker 1: didn't quite make sense, and the only way he could 484 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: explain them was if light came in little packets. And 485 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 1: that's what quantum means. Quantum means a unit or a packet, 486 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,199 Speaker 1: and so he suggested that maybe light comes in these 487 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: little packets. But then it had all these far reaching consequences, 488 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 1: you know, about light going through mirrors and through prisms, 489 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: and the way people could understand that was only if 490 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: there were various probabilities for things to happen, and it 491 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 1: began this whole revolution of quantum mechanics, which then Einstein 492 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: tried to put the brakes on, right. He was like, wait, 493 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: hold on a second, guys, this is crazy talk. There's 494 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 1: no way the universe works this. 495 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 2: Way, meaning like, this idea of quantum stuff only made 496 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:15,440 Speaker 2: sense if the universe work based on probabilities, not like deterministically, 497 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 2: you know, do you have to describe things with wave 498 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 2: functions and things aren't really like point particles or kind 499 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 2: of fuzzy things. 500 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: That's exactly the point is that there's this fuzziness in 501 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: the universe and quantum mechanics because there's these minimum sized 502 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: objects and the way they interfere with each other and 503 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: the way the calculations happen. Quantum mechanics predicts that the 504 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: universe is fundamentally random, and it means that, for example, 505 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:39,879 Speaker 1: you have an electron, you don't know exactly where it is. 506 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: There's a probability distribution that says, most likely it's here, 507 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 1: maybe it's there, maybe it's somewhere else. 508 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 2: Is it that we can't is it like a randomness, 509 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 2: like we can't know where it is, or that there's 510 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 2: this trade off between like momentum and position. 511 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: Right, that's exactly the right question, and that's exactly what 512 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,640 Speaker 1: people were asking. The looked at these equations and they said, well, 513 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: is it that we can't predict where the electron is, 514 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,680 Speaker 1: like it's totally impossible to predict. Or is it that 515 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: we just don't know where it is that we haven't 516 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: figured it out how to get that information? Right? Does 517 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,880 Speaker 1: the information not exist or do we just not have it? 518 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: And so Einstein is the one who said there must 519 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: be some hidden variable, There must be something that these 520 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,879 Speaker 1: particles are carrying, some piece of information that determines exactly 521 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: what's going to happen to them. But we just don't 522 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 1: know what it is I see. To him, it was 523 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 1: crazy to think that you could shoot an electron into 524 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: an experiment twice and get two different answers, But that's 525 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: what appeared to happen. People set up these careful experiments 526 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 1: where you would shoot a photon one at a time. 527 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: You would shoot photons into an experiment, and every photon 528 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: would do something different, and then as you would accumulate 529 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: a bunch of photons, it would add up to give 530 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 1: you a distribution that made sense to you, just the 531 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,640 Speaker 1: same way when you flip a coin, you get heads, 532 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: you get tails, you get heads, you get tails. It 533 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 1: seems random, but eventually it builds up to fifty fifty. Right. 534 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,159 Speaker 1: Quantum mechanics tells us all we can do is predict 535 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,639 Speaker 1: the eventual distribution. We can say, if you measure a 536 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: thousand electrons, some of them will go here and some 537 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: of them will go there. It says you can't predict 538 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: any individual one. All you can predict is the distribution 539 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: of outcomes. 540 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 2: So Eistein was like, maybe a photon is kind of 541 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,639 Speaker 2: like the coin. We were talking about before, like maybe 542 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,160 Speaker 2: it seems random to us, but really it's just kind 543 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 2: of this chain of little local events that actually make 544 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,680 Speaker 2: it predictable. That's right, if we knew all that information inside, 545 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 2: Like maybe it just looks fuzzy to us and we 546 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 2: can't tell where it is, but inside that particle really 547 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:38,959 Speaker 2: actually knows where it is. 548 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: It's exactly right. 549 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:41,439 Speaker 2: That's what he wanted to believe, right, that's. 550 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: What he wanted to believe. And you got to sympathize 551 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,439 Speaker 1: with the guy. Right, it's hard to imagine that the 552 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 1: universe would not be deterministic. I mean, we spent hundreds 553 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 1: of years building up our confidence in science and physics, 554 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: especially as being able to predict the future, and just 555 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 1: of saying, basically, the universe follows rules. Right, So now 556 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,080 Speaker 1: all of a sudden you're telling us what there's like 557 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: dice in there? Is there some randomness like every time 558 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: you shoot an electron into you experiment, somebody or something 559 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: or the universe is making like a random decision about 560 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: where it's going to go. It seems crazy. So you're 561 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 1: absolutely right, And he suggested that a simpler explanation is 562 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 1: that they're carrying along another piece of information that we 563 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,200 Speaker 1: just don't have access to or can't measure or didn't measure, 564 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: and that that's actually determining in a totally predictable way 565 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: what's going to happen to each particle. That was his 566 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:27,160 Speaker 1: solution to the problem. 567 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 2: Well, he famously said God doesn't play dice, right. 568 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 1: Famously quoted as saying that I'm not sure he actually did, 569 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,120 Speaker 1: but it's oh, it's really But it's a pretty good 570 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 1: summary of what he believed. 571 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 2: Fakesight. 572 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: Well, like a lot of fake news, is the kernel 573 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 1: of truth in it. He certainly wanted to believe in 574 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 1: a deterministic universe and it made sense to him. And 575 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,120 Speaker 1: you know what, it makes sense to me. I mean 576 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 1: the idea that there's like a true random number generator 577 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: somewhere in the universe that's making a decision every time 578 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,479 Speaker 1: you shoot an electron into something. It's it doesn't make 579 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 1: any sense to me intuitively, you know, not that the 580 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: universe has to make sense to me intuitively, but it doesn't. 581 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 2: So you're saying, the quantum mechanics says that there is 582 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 2: a randomness in things, and so where is that randomness 583 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 2: actually in? Like the position of particles in the velocity 584 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 2: in their like very being in their energy level. Where 585 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 2: is this randomness of everything? 586 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,119 Speaker 1: Well, there's randomness at every level. I mean there's randomness 587 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: between every time you look at something. So say, for example, 588 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: you measure an electron, you see it's a certain place, 589 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: then you look away, right, because you can't monitor an 590 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: electron every moment or every nanosecond even you look away, 591 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: what does the electron do between when you last saw 592 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: it and when you'll next see it? 593 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 2: Meaning like, if I know where it is and how 594 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 2: fast it's going, and then I look away and I 595 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 2: look again, is it going to be where I think 596 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 2: it's going to be? 597 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. And so every moment of an electron or 598 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: a particle's life is determined by quantum mechanics, which says 599 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: there's a probability distribution. It's not like the electron is 600 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 1: doing something behind your back. It's got one particular path 601 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: that you're just not aware of behind your back, and 602 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: you just don't know it. It doesn't have a specific path. 603 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: It's not like it goes from A to B via 604 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: a particular path. It has a probability of different ways 605 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 1: to get there. WHOA And if you don't look then 606 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: it's sort of doing all of them at once. They 607 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: all have different probabilities, and those probabilities are the things 608 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 1: determined by the laws of physics. So there still are laws. 609 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 1: Physics still does tell the universe how to run. It's 610 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: just that those laws are probabilistic. It says, look, mister electron, 611 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 1: instead of telling you exactly where you're going to go, 612 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: I'm going to say you have a seventy percent chance 613 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: of doing this and a thirty percent chance of doing that. 614 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 2: So that's where the fuzziness and the randomness comes in. 615 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 2: It's not that it like it looks fuzzy, it's just 616 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 2: that it's just hard to predict where it's going to be. 617 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: It's impossible. 618 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 2: I mean, you know all this information, it's impossible. 619 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 1: It's impossible to predict the future. 620 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 2: Impossible. 621 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 1: Exactly. You can predict the various likelihood of so, the 622 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: likelihood of that at the particle level, but you can't 623 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 1: say what one particle is going to do. Wow. Now, 624 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 1: Einstein said, that's crazy, right, there's no way that's true. 625 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 1: There must be a way to predict it must be 626 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 1: there's some piece of information there. And then some guys 627 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: came up with an experiment. They came up with this 628 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: crazy experiment, it's based on an idea called Bell's inequality. 629 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: To test this theory, they said, let's see if the 630 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: universe is really random, or if there's some hidden piece 631 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: of information that's actually secretly determining things. 632 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 2: Like let's see if I really can't predict where that 633 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 2: electron is going to go, or if it's actually like 634 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 2: the electron knows, it just won't tell. 635 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,719 Speaker 1: Us, yeah, right, exactly. And so they set up this 636 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 1: cool experiment where they took a particle and they had 637 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: to shoot out two particles in opposite directions. And those 638 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: particles are therefore connected because they have to conserve momentum 639 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: and they have to conserve energy and have to conserve spin. 640 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 1: And so if you know something about one particle, then 641 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: you know something about the other particle. But both particles 642 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: have equal probability to be like spin up or spin down, 643 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: or point this way a point the other way, but 644 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 1: you know something about the combination of the two. And 645 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: so they came up with this really ingenious experiment to 646 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 1: measure how often you saw one spin up and one 647 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: spin down, for example, And based on the outcome of that, 648 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 1: you could tell whether there was a secret, hidden piece 649 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: of information that was controlling both particles, or whether they 650 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: were both truly random. And the experiments are conclusive, and 651 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 1: it's been done a zillion times, and the experiment tells 652 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,479 Speaker 1: us that the universe at its core really is random. 653 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 1: That's making a random decision every time you look at 654 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: these particles. 655 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,959 Speaker 2: So beyond the shadow of a doubt, we know that 656 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 2: the universe is random. 657 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: The universe is random absolutely. There's no there's no escape clause, 658 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 1: there's no if hands or butts, there's no no loopholes. 659 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: The universe at the particle level is really random. Now, 660 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: you said something really interesting earlier. You know, even if 661 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 1: the universe is random at the lowest level, that doesn't 662 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 1: necessarily mean that it's a random at other levels, right, 663 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 1: Like we still got to the moon. 664 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 4: Right. 665 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: It's not like we're saying science doesn't work or you 666 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:09,320 Speaker 1: shouldn't get in that airplane. Right. Science works at different levels, 667 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: And even if it's random at a very very small level, 668 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that on average it's really predictable, right, Like 669 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 1: we do know how basketballs bounce, right, And that's because 670 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 1: the randomness only applies to these tiny, little particles and 671 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 1: over the ten to the thirty or whatever particles in 672 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 1: a basketball that all averages out to something very very predictable. 673 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 2: Wow, So like random events Canada add up to predictable events? 674 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 2: Is that kind of what you're saying. 675 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, Like you can't tell how any individual voter 676 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 1: is going to vote, but if you've done enough polls 677 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 1: you can tell you know how the nation is going 678 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 1: to vote at a certain election. 679 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 2: That worked out so well in the twenty sixteen election. 680 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe that wasn't the best. 681 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 2: Example totally predictable. At the level of particles, there is randomness, 682 00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 2: but maybe in the macroscale things are fairly predictable. Yeah, 683 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 2: but how does that affect things like free will? Does 684 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 2: that mean that, like my brain, does quantum randomness give 685 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 2: me some sort of unpredictability or free will as you 686 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 2: might call it, Or is my brain also very predictable 687 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 2: in the long run. 688 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 1: It's a great question, and into this tiny crack in determinism, 689 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 1: you know, saying that at the particle level, things are 690 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 1: truly random. And there's flooded and enormous literature of consciousness 691 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 1: and all sorts of philosophy that try to connect free 692 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 1: will to quantum randomness, you know, to say that this 693 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:35,480 Speaker 1: is the whole we needed, This is what breaks determinism 694 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 1: and allows for me and my soul and God and 695 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 1: all the and all the things you want to cram 696 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 1: into your universe. Right, I'm not convinced that quantum mechanics 697 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: allows for free will or for souls or you know, 698 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 1: for all that kind of stuff, but it certainly does 699 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,960 Speaker 1: dismantle the deterministic watchlike universe that we thought we had. 700 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 2: M So just because something is random doesn't mean you 701 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 2: have free will. Like it's just random exactly exactly. And 702 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 2: to sort of answer the question, you know, is the 703 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,120 Speaker 2: universe random or is it chaotic? Turns out it's kind 704 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 2: of both. 705 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 1: Right, It's random at the particle level, but it's chaotic 706 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:15,799 Speaker 1: at the macroscopic level. Right, Things do seem to be 707 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 1: fairly deterministic at the macroscopic level, but then again they're 708 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 1: too chaotic to really to really model. So it's not 709 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: like you can predict the weather. 710 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:25,840 Speaker 2: It's kind of a progression. Like it's random at the 711 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 2: particle level, it's kind of deterministic at a medium range level, 712 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 2: but then as you get to larger and larger systems. 713 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,879 Speaker 2: Then it's chaotic and it's practically unpredictable. 714 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly right. So any answer you want there's 715 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,399 Speaker 1: some place in the universe is. 716 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I just pick a random, random answer and it'll 717 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:47,839 Speaker 2: be yes. 718 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,399 Speaker 1: And maybe that's why people answered it's such a such 719 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 1: streams of gibberish to our question, because because they really 720 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: deeply understood that the universe was both random and chaotic. 721 00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,720 Speaker 2: Wow, wisdom of the craw with some of the crowd. 722 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 1: Exactly, you average over ten random people and there is 723 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,360 Speaker 1: some insight. Yeah, exactly, that's the whole that's the whole problem. 724 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 2: The answer is the answer is yes. 725 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 1: So I think it's it's fun to think about that 726 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 1: in sort of the larger context, you know, like we 727 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 1: started off thinking the universe was crazy, then we started 728 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:18,880 Speaker 1: to get some grips on it. Then we felt like, oh, 729 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: maybe the universe is sort of too tight a grip 730 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,480 Speaker 1: on us because it seems deterministic, right, and they we've 731 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,280 Speaker 1: got this crack thanks to quantum mechanics that says it's random. 732 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 1: But I don't really know how comfortable people are with 733 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 1: that crack, you know, to think that the universe doesn't 734 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 1: know what it's going to do at any moment, like 735 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,279 Speaker 1: they could do this, it could do that. That's sort 736 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:40,200 Speaker 1: of terrifying. I understand Einstein's fear. That Einstein's dislike or 737 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 1: disdain for that, and that leaves us in a sort 738 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 1: of uncomfortable position. 739 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 2: And it might get even crazier, right, Like, let's say 740 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,399 Speaker 2: that we build quantum computers and then there's AI based 741 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,720 Speaker 2: on quantum computers. That that would be even crazier. 742 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:54,760 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I'd love to read that science fiction novel 743 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,840 Speaker 1: that's how that's how AI develops free will, right, quantum computers? 744 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:07,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, more than us, that's exactly right. All right, Well, 745 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,360 Speaker 2: thank you for joining us. I hope that didn't seem 746 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 2: like a random, random or chaotic discussion. 747 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 1: But those are really fun topics. I think it's super 748 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,360 Speaker 1: fun to try to wrap your mind around those things. 749 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:19,840 Speaker 1: And you know, one of the basic questions of physics 750 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 1: is not just what is the world made out? Or 751 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: what are the bits and pieces? But like what are 752 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: the rules? And are there rules? And you know, can 753 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 1: we ever understand it? To me, that's one of the 754 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 1: deepest questions of science. And this goes right to the 755 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:31,719 Speaker 1: heart of it. 756 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,360 Speaker 2: So if you're a butterfly out there, keep on flam exactly. 757 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,279 Speaker 1: If you still have a question after listening to all 758 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 1: these explanations, please drop us a line. We'd love to 759 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 1: hear from you. You can find us at Facebook, Twitter, 760 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,759 Speaker 1: and Instagram at Daniel and Jorge That's one word, or 761 00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 1: email us at Feedback at Daniel and Jorge dot com.