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Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to ok F Daily with

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Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody, recording from the Home Bunker, Folks,

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Speaker 1: I am back from the DNC and I will be

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Speaker 1: officially giving you my breakdown of the vice president acceptance speech.

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Speaker 1: Of my time at the DNC. It was wild, as

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Speaker 1: you can imagine. I am exhausted but still floating on

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Speaker 1: cloud nine from the last week. Regardless of what it is,

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Speaker 1: you know, dear friends, that the media is hell bent

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Speaker 1: on doing showing their entire and complete ass. The New

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Speaker 1: York Times has put out articles like joy is not

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Speaker 1: a strategy. You see other articles like Trump can win

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Speaker 1: on character, like it is some white supremacist, fucking gas

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Speaker 1: lighting bullshit that is happening. And I think that, you know,

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Speaker 1: in one way, I will say that I do think

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Speaker 1: that the media is actually doing y'all a good service

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Speaker 1: by showing you exactly who they are and what they

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Speaker 1: care about, and the fact that they want to be

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Speaker 1: feeding you a steady diet of fear of cruelty and

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Speaker 1: normalizing that in a way that makes you feel hopeless

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Speaker 1: and that you can't possibly perceive of anything outside of

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Speaker 1: this narrow, you know, oppressive box that they want you

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Speaker 1: to be in, and for them, that's what sells, right.

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Speaker 1: Hatred sells, misery sells, and anything outside of that doesn't

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Speaker 1: work for them. So they don't really know what to

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Speaker 1: do right now with Vice President Kamala Harrison, Tim Walls,

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Speaker 1: and so they just continue doing what they've been doing

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Speaker 1: over the last eight years, which is slighting all of us, right.

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Speaker 1: And so I'm just looking at, you know, where mainstream

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Speaker 1: corporate media has been, you know, and I see that

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Speaker 1: regardless of their attempts right now, the Vice President brought

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Speaker 1: in killer numbers for the DNC, well surpassed the RNC

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Speaker 1: on all four days of the convention. Her speech, I

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Speaker 1: think was rated twenty two percent higher in terms of

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Speaker 1: viewership than Donald Trump's ninety minute you know, stream of

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Speaker 1: consciousness ramblings. And so I think that more and more

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Speaker 1: people are tapping out of mainstream corporate media because they

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Speaker 1: are recognizing that they're not there to educate you, They

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Speaker 1: are not there to uplift you, They are not there

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Speaker 1: to connect the dots for you. They are there solely

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Speaker 1: for themselves and their shareholders and their CEOs. And you

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Speaker 1: will continue to see headlines that are just so contrary

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Speaker 1: to the reality that's happening on the ground, and recognize that,

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Speaker 1: you know, when we have heard things like the liberal media,

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Speaker 1: it's all bullshit, and it's all gaslighting, and it's all

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Speaker 1: distortion in order to just lean into the grievance politics

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Speaker 1: of the Republican Party. So I'm over it. Nonetheless. Coming

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Speaker 1: up on today's show is the author of an incredible

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Speaker 1: book entitled You Get What You Pay For, Morgan Parker,

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Speaker 1: and I just want to read you a bit about

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Speaker 1: what this book is about. In a collection of essays

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Speaker 1: as intimate as being in the room with Parker and

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Speaker 1: her therapists, Parker examines America's cultural history and relationship to

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Speaker 1: Black Americans through the ages. She touches on such topics

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Speaker 1: as the ubiquity of beauty standards that exclude black women,

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Speaker 1: the implication of Bill Cosby's fall from grace in a

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Speaker 1: culture predicate on acceptance through respectability, and the pitfalls of

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Speaker 1: visibility as seen through the mischaracterizations of Serena Williams as

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Speaker 1: alternately iconic and too ambitious. With piercing wit and incisive observations,

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Speaker 1: You Get What You Pay For is ultimately a portal

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Speaker 1: into a deeper examination of racial consciousness and its effects

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Speaker 1: on mental well being in America. Today, Morgan and I

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Speaker 1: get into a fantastic conversation that I hope all of

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Speaker 1: you will enjoy, and in the episode notes you can

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Speaker 1: go ahead and purchase her book, which is out now, folks.

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Speaker 1: I am very happy to welcome to OKF Daily author

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Speaker 1: Morgan Parker, whose new book, You Get What You Pay

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Speaker 1: For is a laugh out loud memoir in essays that

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Speaker 1: charts a devastatingly candid course through a story both of

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Speaker 1: you unique and universal about liberation and asking the question

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Speaker 1: with regard to reparations and whether or not black women,

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Speaker 1: frankly should be our deserving of free mental health care.

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Speaker 1: Morgan set it up for us, this kind of question

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Speaker 1: that you're posing through your series of essays. We all

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Speaker 1: know and I can, you know, bring up just what

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Speaker 1: is happening right now in terms of what just transpired

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Speaker 1: with the Olympics and Jordan Chiles and the bronze medal contention.

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Speaker 1: We can see what has happened with Sonya Massey and

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Speaker 1: being killed in her home, like there are so many

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Speaker 1: instances at which we know that black women's mental health

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Speaker 1: is one weaponized against them and is taxed on a

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Speaker 1: regular basis, not just in this country but globally. So

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Speaker 1: talk to us about your thoughts and the thought provoking

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Speaker 1: question that you're bringing up in your book.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, for me, it really started with my

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Speaker 2: own own journey and after years of therapy, kind of

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Speaker 2: looking backward in my life and thinking about all the

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Speaker 2: things that I had internalized as my fault that I

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Speaker 2: was starting to see very clearly had its roots in

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Speaker 2: white supremacists thinking and the ways that living in and

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Speaker 2: among a white supremacist focused world has really kind of

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Speaker 2: entered my psyche and changed the way I felt about myself.

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Speaker 2: And in kind of discovering these things and just really

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Speaker 2: discovering my own freedom to be, you know, my first

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Speaker 2: thought was like, Wow, what if we all could have that?

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Speaker 2: What if we all could see for ourselves, how much

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Speaker 2: of what we punish ourselves for is not on us,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean? And if we could all

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Speaker 2: if we had you know, the time and space and

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Speaker 2: support to actually acknowledge the toll that these things are

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Speaker 2: taking and the various outside forces that are responsible for

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Speaker 2: a lot of our pain instead of you know, swallowing

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Speaker 2: it and internalizing it and turning it into something that

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Speaker 2: we have to change for ourselves or about ourselves, and

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Speaker 2: just really thinking about all the ways that these symptoms

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Speaker 2: really show up in our lives. You know, for me,

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Speaker 2: it's a lot of that self hatred and internalized struggle,

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Speaker 2: but for a lot of folks it can manifest in addiction,

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Speaker 2: and it can manifest in just like dangerous behaviors. I mean,

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Speaker 2: people could get locked up for everything that's rooted in

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Speaker 2: this poisonous thinking, you know, So thinking about all the

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Speaker 2: widespread effects, then thinking, okay, what if this was a solve,

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Speaker 2: What if this was a sort of reparations for us,

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Speaker 2: this sort of like internalized healing. What kind of empires

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Speaker 2: of our pain would fall? How many of us would

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Speaker 2: not be in prison, any of us would love ourselves more,

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Speaker 2: be more in love, make more art, All the possibilities

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Speaker 2: that that could open. And it really was an exciting

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Speaker 2: question to ask, not only on the personal level, but

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Speaker 2: really on this level of taking the appropriate perpetrators to

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Speaker 2: task and really saying what hurts and not cloaking the

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Speaker 2: issues in jargon or data or you know, figures about

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Speaker 2: where people's families are from and how much money and

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Speaker 2: all this stuff, Like, what if it was really directed

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Speaker 2: at the source of the problem?

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Speaker 1: I wonder, because I love the idea and the concept

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Speaker 1: of reparations in the form of healing what was purposefully broken? However,

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Speaker 1: I then think about the ways that we have been

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Speaker 1: broken throughout generations have been intentional. The whole idea around

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Speaker 1: reparations would be a concession by the empire, by white supremacists, capitalists,

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Speaker 1: powers that be to acknowledge a wrongdoing. Right, Like, there

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Speaker 1: is still something about the idea that our collective healing

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Speaker 1: is still connected to the acknowledgment of the causation of

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Speaker 1: pain in the first place. And so I feel like,

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Speaker 1: to some extent, then that's why we get stuck in

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Speaker 1: doing our own work, because we're still being forced to

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Speaker 1: rely on other people's acknowledgment in order for us to

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Speaker 1: be able to move forward. So how do you grapple

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Speaker 1: with that? How do we grapple with that very real

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Speaker 1: understanding of kind of where we are and where we've

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Speaker 1: been exactly?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think that's a real tension in

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Speaker 2: the arguments in the book. You know, I did a

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Speaker 2: lot of research, and some of this is in the

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Speaker 2: book of you know, black psychiatrists and psychologists from you know,

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Speaker 2: even from the fifties and sixties, and the way that

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Speaker 2: they're talking about the type of mental health care that

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Speaker 2: black people need specifically, and they're talking about this tension

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Speaker 2: between the patient is in the office doing this work,

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Speaker 2: but then they're going out into an unchanged world. If

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Speaker 2: we can change, but what good does it do if

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Speaker 2: the outside world doesn't change? And I think that is

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Speaker 2: it's such a valid point and it's something that I

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Speaker 2: wanted to put out there as like, you know, an

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Speaker 2: indictment for all of us. But it's also something that

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Speaker 2: I get hung up on when I feel and makes

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Speaker 2: me feel a little bit helpless, which is scary, you know,

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Speaker 2: because that's the thing about healing is that we're in

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Speaker 2: charge of it. And so that I think, yeah, there's

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Speaker 2: a little bit of contention there because we want to

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Speaker 2: be able to do our own work and feel that

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Speaker 2: we're making progress. But as you said, part of that

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Speaker 2: is this acknowledgment culturally. My answer is just the more

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Speaker 2: of us that are on that same page, you know

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Speaker 2: what I mean, because they're not even pressured to.

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Speaker 3: Be on that page.

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Speaker 2: But if I can, you know, if first of all,

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Speaker 2: we don't even really talk about this stuff amongst us enough,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like that's still not a norm.

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Speaker 2: There's still so much stigma. So if we could get

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Speaker 2: on the same page about it, then perhaps there could

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Speaker 2: be movement in the other direction in terms of this

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Speaker 2: is what we need and we all understand that.

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Speaker 1: I want to ask this because while I think that

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Speaker 1: as a whole there is still very much a stigma

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Speaker 1: around accessing mental health care, I feel like when I'm

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Speaker 1: on you know and forgive me, but when I'm on TikTok,

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Speaker 1: I feel like there are a lot of young Black

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Speaker 1: women in particular who are becoming and have become very

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Speaker 1: vocal on the need for mental health and self care

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Speaker 1: and not self care just in the bubble bath sense,

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Speaker 1: which I love, right, but I mean in the who

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Speaker 1: is on your team to help you navigate society in

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Speaker 1: a way that allows you to navigate it as a

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Speaker 1: whole person. Right? And So I wonder, how do you

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Speaker 1: see younger generations of Black women accessing the kinds of

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Speaker 1: mental health that you are talking about? And are there

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Speaker 1: enough in this generation Z to forge the change that

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Speaker 1: our ancestors have been calling for since the beginning of

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Speaker 1: time since the acknowledgment of the difference between you know,

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Speaker 1: quote unquote feminism and black feminism, right repro justice versus

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Speaker 1: reproductive health care, Like, is there something that you are

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Speaker 1: seeing and hearing in this younger, more articulate generation, and

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Speaker 1: I mean articulate in the way that they're able to

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Speaker 1: verbalize their pain, their trauma, and how society has played

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Speaker 1: a part in that.

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Speaker 2: I do see it becoming more of a normal or

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Speaker 2: really that we're claiming a lot more language around it.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: That's what I see is that we're finding our ways

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Speaker 2: of discussing these things. But I've never worried about Black

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Speaker 2: women finding that, you know what I mean. And it's

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Speaker 2: exciting to see the different ways that a younger generation

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Speaker 2: of Black women has done this, but we've always been

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Speaker 2: at the forefront of trying to navigate this internal healing. Yes,

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Speaker 2: as you said, it's exciting to see the different way

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Speaker 2: modes of access that they have and the different levels

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Speaker 2: of collectivity. I think is what's really exciting. But I

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Speaker 2: also wish that it was a more holistic community thing,

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Speaker 2: you know, intergenerational, And on one hand, I want this

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Speaker 2: kind of broader umbrella conversation about mental health in the

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Speaker 2: black community. But I also do see which is really

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Speaker 2: encouraging a specific focus on black women's mental health care

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Speaker 2: versus black men. I do think all of that is important.

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Speaker 2: I think what's missing really is just that political piece

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Speaker 2: of the whole of like what are the mental health

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Speaker 2: care needs of the African American community in America?

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Speaker 3: You know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: Because I do love the way that we're able to

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Speaker 2: talk about how black women and black men might need

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Speaker 2: a different kind of conversation for example. I think that's

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Speaker 2: really improved a lot. And so for me, the question

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Speaker 2: is really what do we as you know, Black American

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Speaker 2: citizens want the future to look like for us as

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Speaker 2: a whole.

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Speaker 1: Do you foresee us being able to though navigate that

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Speaker 1: very real reality and space again with out white compliance?

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Speaker 1: Is there a way? Because again I'm just like I'm

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Speaker 1: exhausted thinking about it. If I got it, if I

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Speaker 1: have to, you know what I'm saying, Like, if I

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Speaker 1: have to rely on my healing being contingent upon the

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Speaker 1: acknowledgment that you've caused, You've inflicted generations of pain that

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Speaker 1: sources through you know, my DNA on a regular basis,

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Speaker 1: like if I'm waiting for that, then I feel like

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Speaker 1: my healing again, like I said at the top, is

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Speaker 1: going to be stuck. So is it contingent upon.

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Speaker 2: No, then okay, I think the really the acknowledgment is personal,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean, because I think that so

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Speaker 2: many of us can't acknowledge that at face value day

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Speaker 2: to day because it's just like, you know, we have

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Speaker 2: to live in this world. So for me, the first

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Speaker 2: step was always this personal acknowledgment in the ways that

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Speaker 2: white supremacy has affected my psychology. And of course the

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Speaker 2: ultimate political goal and aim for us would be for

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Speaker 2: the white powers that be to acknowledge that. But I

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Speaker 2: think of utmost and primary importance is us acknowledging that

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Speaker 2: on not only a holistic level, but also a personal

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Speaker 2: level and vice versa, if that makes sense, because I

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Speaker 2: think that's where the healing begins, and the reparations idea

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Speaker 2: that is contingent, you know what I mean. That's really

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Speaker 2: like putting it outward and putting it on the government. Really,

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Speaker 2: for me, it's the question of rethinking what reparations is

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Speaker 2: and how far any kind of reparation can get us.

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Speaker 2: So for me, it's a question of how far can

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Speaker 2: a check get us versus how far mental healthcare can

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Speaker 2: get us, But not to say that our healing is

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Speaker 2: wholly contingent upon that. It's just a matter of trying

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Speaker 2: to utilize the resources that the government has toward our healing.

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Speaker 1: You know, I find that sometimes we also can't get

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Speaker 1: to where we want to go because we don't have

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Speaker 1: a clear enough vision of what that healing looks like.

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Speaker 1: So can you talk to us about and that obviously, right,

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Speaker 1: everybody has a different journey, has a different path. But

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Speaker 1: I do think that there is some collectiveness around ultimately

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Speaker 1: what we desire as a black community, right Like, when

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Speaker 1: we say that what we aspire for liberation, what does

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Speaker 1: that liberation actually look like? And I feel like most recently, God,

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Speaker 1: and I can't remember, but I can't remember the person's name,

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Speaker 1: and maybe you know, but it was like the difference

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Speaker 1: between the freedom from and the freedom too, and us

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Speaker 1: that kind of statement is that there are levels and

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Speaker 1: layers to the liberation, and being free from something doesn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily equate to you being free to do something. So

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Speaker 1: the ultimate goal is for liberation is the freedom too,

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Speaker 1: not just the freedom from? And so I wonder even

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Speaker 1: though all of our paths are different. What do you

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Speaker 1: see as the collective desire for the community? And when

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Speaker 1: I say community, I'm also talking about Black women specifically

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Speaker 1: and then Black people at large.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the way that I kind of phrased

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Speaker 2: it in the book was the freedom to think for ourselves,

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Speaker 2: you know, with our own minds. So it's really it's

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Speaker 2: freedom from the white supremacy in our psychology in order

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Speaker 2: to have the freedom to be my most authentic self

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Speaker 2: and think my own authentic thoughts, you know, to know

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Speaker 2: that my thoughts are mine, my actions are driven by me.

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Speaker 3: I think that's.

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Speaker 2: Really what it is because so much of and for

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Speaker 2: Black women specifically, I think so much of our behavior

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Speaker 2: and dialogue, often in public spaces, is and must be

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Speaker 2: often for protection for a myriad of reasons, but is

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Speaker 2: of a reactionary you know, and performative in so many ways.

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Speaker 2: And I love the idea of imagining a self that

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Speaker 2: is like unmolested by you know what I mean, like

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Speaker 2: why it's supremacist motivations that I've internalized via I mean,

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Speaker 2: even like the law, you know, like things that are

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Speaker 2: like that's kind of subconscious language of things.

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Speaker 3: If I could get that out of my head? What

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Speaker 3: could I dream up? You know?

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Speaker 2: So for us, I think it's that ability to just

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Speaker 2: clear our heads and think for ourselves.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that that's right.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: I so appreciate your right. It shouldn't be a provocative question, right,

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Speaker 1: but it is one that is provocative in your book.

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Speaker 1: And so the last question that I have for you,

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Speaker 1: Morgan is like, what do you hope that people get

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Speaker 1: from your book? You get what you pay for. What

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Speaker 1: do you hope that they are left with?

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Speaker 3: I hope that people pay more attention to other people.

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Speaker 2: I hope that my readers come away with it eager

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Speaker 2: to look deeper at others and seek a better understanding

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Speaker 2: of where folks are coming from and what has influenced them.

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Speaker 3: I think so much.

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Speaker 2: Of I was writing a lot out of a frustration

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Speaker 2: of folks having an idea of what a black woman's

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Speaker 2: life is like having a general idea or even like

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Speaker 2: some data about single black women or whatever. And I

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Speaker 2: think sometimes like the human really gets lost, and so

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Speaker 2: you know, I really didn't think that that would be

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Speaker 2: the point of the book, but as I was kind

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Speaker 2: of finishing it up, it really felt like a call

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Speaker 2: to just pay more attention to the ins and outs

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Speaker 2: and the daily trials that we.

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Speaker 3: All go through.

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Speaker 2: And I think those are the things, especially when you

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Speaker 2: know black people's existence is often just like summed up

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Speaker 2: in these like moments of when a black person dies,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean, And otherwise it's just like

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Speaker 2: you know, I don't know, and I think, yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: the little stuff that adds up. And in the same way,

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Speaker 2: it's the little stuff that could add up to create big,

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Speaker 2: big change. So that's really what I hope my readers

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Speaker 2: take away is this idea that the little bits matter,

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Speaker 2: the little moments matter, and seeing other people for real,

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Speaker 2: for real matters a lot.

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Speaker 3: You know. Appreciate you Morgan.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for making the time to join

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Speaker 1: ok F and thank you so much for this book.

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Speaker 1: It is you get what you pay for, and you

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Speaker 1: are the author of so many other incredible books as well,

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Speaker 1: so folks, you should get into it. Thank you so much,

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Speaker 1: really appreciate you.

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Speaker 3: Thank you Bye.

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Speaker 1: That is it for me today, dear friends on wokef

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Speaker 1: as always, Power to the people and to all the people. Power,

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Speaker 1: get woke and stay woke as fuck.