WEBVTT - PTG Classic: Why Are We So Fascinated By the Titanic? 0:00:02.320 --> 0:00:03.040 Guess what mango? 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:04.200 What's that? Will see? 0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:06.000 You remember a couple of weeks ago when the artist 0:00:06.040 --> 0:00:09.600 banks He pulled that incredible prank on the entire auction world. 0:00:09.880 --> 0:00:12.160 Yeah, that was when it was painting just self destructed 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:15.080 in front of everyone. Wasn't it worth over a million dollars? 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:18.040 It was actually one point four million dollars? And the 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:20.440 crazy part is they say it's probably worth even more 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:22.840 now and the person who had bid on it, you know, 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:24.400 has agreed to pay that price. 0:00:24.720 --> 0:00:26.840 That's crazy. I mean, I guess it does make it 0:00:26.880 --> 0:00:29.520 more unique, but it's still really weird how much people 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:30.319 will pay for things. 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:33.120 No, it definitely is. And actually I find this kind 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:36.199 of thing fascinating. I mean, it's it's always interesting to 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:39.120 see what people will pay big money for at auction. 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:41.879 So I was recently looking at this list of the 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:44.279 things people have bid on over the years that are 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:48.080 related to the Titanic disaster, and one thing that went 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:51.199 for even more than that Banksy painting is the violin 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:55.080 played by William Hartley as the Titanic sank. Now, many 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:57.520 of us have heard this legend before, and it's of 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:00.400 course impossible to verify, you know, every piece of it. 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:03.160 But the idea is that Hartley, who was the band leader, 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:06.200 that he asked his seven musicians to keep playing as 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:08.920 the ship was going down, And so some tell the 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:11.240 story that he led his crew in playing Near My 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:13.679 God to thee and you know, that may not be 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:17.120 completely true. It does appear that the musicians did maintain 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:21.119 their composure and they continued playing something what we don't 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:24.600 know exactly what it was, but that violin that Hartley 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:28.679 played sold back in twenty thirteen for one point seven 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:33.520 million dollars. And I guess it's really no surprise because, 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:36.280 you know, more than one hundred years after the tragic event, 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:39.679 we're still fascinated by it. So today we'll try to 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:42.800 better understand why that is, you know, and ask some 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:45.399 of the questions like what did people know about the 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:48.840 Titanic before it set sail, what was life like on board, 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:51.720 and what were some of the strange ways people chose 0:01:51.760 --> 0:02:16.680 to remember the ship after the disaster. So let's get started, Hey, 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:19.280 their podcast listeners, welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm Will 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:21.560 Pearson and as always I'm joined by my good friend 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:23.760 mangesh Hot Ticketer and on the other side of the 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:27.400 soundproof glass wearing a button that just says proud member 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:30.480 of the just Mysstic club. That's our friend and producer 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:33.120 Tristan McNeil. Now a lot of people don't know this, 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:36.280 but Tristan very nearly booked himself on a trip on 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:40.280 the Titanic back in nineteen twelve. Thankfully, the plan fell 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:42.880 apart at the very last minute, you know, on account 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:45.959 of his not having been born yet, so ultimately he 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:47.000 missed the boat. 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:50.320 Which is just such a lucky break. But you know, 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:53.320 Tristan isn't alone in telling tall tales about how he 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:56.280 narrowly escaped death on the Titanic. In fact, just five 0:02:56.360 --> 0:02:59.280 days after the sinking, there are already press reports about 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:01.480 the so called US Missed It Club and how it 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:05.160 already had six nine hundred four members. And so this 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:07.320 was obviously tongue in cheek, but it was also kind 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:10.079 of true. Like a suspiciously large number of people had 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:12.600 come forward claiming they'd missed the boat because they'd been 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:15.280 running late that morning, or they'd gotten sick or whatever, 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:18.520 but everyone knew most of the stories were completely made up. 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:21.079 Like in one of the press reports I mentioned, they 0:03:21.080 --> 0:03:23.600 had a sarcastic quote from a guy who said, quote, 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:25.960 I count it lucky that I didn't have the money 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:28.040 to go abroad this year. If all of us who 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:30.720 just missed it had got aboard the Titanic, she would 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:33.040 have sunk at the Liverpool Dock from the overload. 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:37.760 I'm glad the public didn't fall for all these stories. 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:40.720 I mean, it's such a strange compulsion in the first place, 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:42.920 you know, to lie like that because I don't know, 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:45.440 because you want to attach yourself to a tragedy. But 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:48.600 I guess that goes to show how captivated people were 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:51.800 by the story of the Titanic. And the really amazing 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:54.480 thing is that more than one hundred years later, many 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:57.440 of us are still just as captivated. So at this 0:03:57.520 --> 0:03:59.760 point the disaster, it feels like it's taken on kind 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:03.080 of a mythical status in world culture, and it's become 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:06.720 one of those stories that everybody seems to know. In fact, 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:09.520 I read in Smithsonian that Titanic is actually the third 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:13.360 most recognized word in the world, just below God and 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.400 Coca cola. And you know, while it's true that interest 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:19.160 in the story has ebbed and flowed over time, it's 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:21.760 still something that we always seem to come back to 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:24.640 So today we'll take a look at why that is 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:28.800 and why Titanic still fascinates us all these years later, 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:31.400 and help answer that. We'll talk about the impact the 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:34.040 tragedies had on the world, both in the short term 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:36.920 and the long term, and we'll also dig a little 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:39.840 deeper into life aboard the ship, which you know, includes 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:43.559 the surprising stories of a few standout passengers. It's definitely 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:45.240 a lot to cover, so let's get to it. But 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:48.360 where do you want to start, Mango, Well, I. 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:50.000 Thought we could start with one of the biggest reasons 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:52.880 that people have stayed invested in the Titanic, and that's 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:55.600 just the ship itself. So most of us know that 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:58.279 at the time it was the largest ocean liner ever constructed, 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:01.520 and more broadly, the large just men made moving object 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:03.680 in the world. It was about eight hundred and eighty 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:06.160 feet long and one hundred and seventy five feet tall, 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:09.159 which means the ship was as long as three football 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:12.920 fields and as tall as a seventeen story building. Isn't 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:13.680 that insane? 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:15.919 Yeah, I mean, it was definitely a massive ship for 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:19.039 its time, no question about that, But it wouldn't really 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:21.240 be that impressive today though, right I mean, we have 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:24.280 cruise ships that are more than four times that size now, 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:26.760 so it does make me wonder, like why the size 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:29.400 of the Titanic still captures people's interest. 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:32.440 So I think it's partly the perception that the Titanic 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:34.760 was kind of tempting fate in a way, like the 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:37.160 fact that the ship held that title as the world's 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:40.320 largest and then it ended up sinking on its maiden voyage. 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:43.480 It feels like this cautionary tale about man's hubris in 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:46.200 some people's minds, Like it's almost like a Tower of 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:48.919 Babbel situation or something where man kind of overreached and 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:51.440 then was made to suffer for it. And I think 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:54.200 that still resonates for people, especially since we've heard so 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:57.919 many stories now about how luxurious and decadent the ship was, 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:00.000 especially compared to others at the time. 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:02.480 All right, Well, before we get to that fateful night 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:04.599 with the iceberg, I do want to spend a little 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:07.240 more time on board and talk about a few of 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:09.880 those deck in it details that you alluded to. So, 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:12.200 for example, the Titanic was one of the first ships 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:15.240 to have electric lights in all of its rooms. It 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:17.960 also had way more amenities than most other ships, and 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:20.760 so just looking at the list, here among those were 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:25.679 four elevators, a heated swimming pool, two libraries, two barber shops, 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:29.600 a squash court, a Turkish bath, and even it's on 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:32.760 onboard newspaper called the Atlantic Daily Bulletin. 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:35.640 So I hadn't heard about the paper. I'm guessing that 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:37.520 means that they had a printing press on board. 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:39.560 Yeah, I mean there was a small print shop on 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:41.920 the D deck, and of course this was close to 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:44.040 the butcher's shop in case you're wondering. 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:47.080 Now I know where i'd get my PASTROMI on that. 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:50.040 That's right, But I mean, it really does feel like 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:52.960 they thought about everything. My favorite Titanic amenity, though it 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:56.440 is probably the onboard gymnasium, Like it had all the 0:06:56.480 --> 0:07:00.520 best equipment, naturally, including old standards like rowing machines, weights, 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:03.720 punching bags, but it also had this cutting edge gear, 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:07.799 like they had two static bicycles with two foot dials 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:10.760 attached to show the distance that had been traveled. And 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:13.320 there were also a few electric horses, which were these 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:16.320 big mechanical saddles meant to mimic riding a horse. 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:19.720 I mean, does that even count as exercise? It kind 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:21.320 of feels like it would be less of a workout 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:23.560 for the rider than for the horse, or I guess 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:24.880 the saddle in this case. 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:27.640 I mean, I think it was supposed to streadden your 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:31.400 core or maybe some leg muscles, But either way, I 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:33.560 doubt any of the passenger has worked up that much 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:35.440 of a sweat. Like, if you look at pictures from 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:38.040 floating gyms on the Titanic and other ships of the era, 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:41.520 most of the passengers are exercising while they're wearing their 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:44.040 full get up, So it's like a bunch of really 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:47.640 sedate and calm looking people in these three piece suits 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:50.840 or like big Edwardian dresses and hats, and they're just 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:53.480 kind of half heartedly pedling on the bikes or whatever. 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:55.440 It's pretty lazy looking. 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:58.880 Yeah, I've actually seen some of these pictures, and honestly, 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:00.680 my guess is that it's the first time in a 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:03.120 gym for most of them, because nobody looks like they 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:05.680 know what they're doing at all. 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:07.800 I mean, it's a good thing that they had a 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:11.000 personal trainer on board the Titanic. This is real. His 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:14.120 name was Thomas McCauley, and it was this guy's job 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:16.920 to show passengers how to use the equipment, and even 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:19.640 to provide one on one training sessions. And it seems 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:22.720 like McCauley took his job super seriously because the night 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:25.360 the ship sank, he actually chose to stay at his 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:27.720 post in the gym and go down with the ship. 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:31.280 Wait, seriously, I mean, I don't want to speak ill 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:33.880 of the dead, but that sort of seems a little 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:36.559 bit unnecessary. I mean, we did talk about how the 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:39.880 band chose to continue playing as the ship sank, and 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:41.920 to me though, that makes sense because it was a 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:44.840 way to sacrifice and to calm the passengers, or to 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:48.280 give them at least some sense of peace. But I mean, 0:08:48.320 --> 0:08:51.320 why keep the gym open. I can't imagine anybody was thinking, like, 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:53.000 I think, I'll just get in a few more reps 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:54.720 before whatever happens here happens. 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:58.160 Yeah. Probably not, But if anyone was trying to burn 0:08:58.280 --> 0:09:01.040 like a few calories for the road, I really wouldn't 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:03.520 blame them. I mean, the meals on board the Titanic 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:06.880 were pretty epic, at least for the first class passengers, 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:10.000 and so the dinners were gourmet affairs with up to 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:13.360 thirteen courses, each of which came with its own paired wine. 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:15.720 There was also a pre dinner cocktail service that was 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:19.840 added as a concession to American passengers. Apparently European passengers 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:22.160 weren't fans of this idea because they thought mixed drinks 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:25.520 ruined your palette before eating. But from start to finish, 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:27.880 these elaborate meals could last as long as four or 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:31.000 five hours, and because the first class menu was actually 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:34.760 later recovered, we actually know exactly what the wealthiest Titanic 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:36.880 passengers had for dinner the night the ship went down, 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:40.480 and it was an incredible spread. The feast started with 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:43.760 raw oysters and a selection of ordeuvres, followed by a 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:47.120 choice of two soups. Then came a lightly pushed Atlantic 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:50.000 salmon topped with a rich moose. For the fourth and 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:54.240 fifth courses, passengers chose from such rich entrees as a 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:58.199 filet mignon or a lamb with mint sauce. And then 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:00.720 at the halfway point of the meal, this is only 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:05.240 halfway through the meal, you get a palate cleanser. It's 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:08.480 it's a punch romaine, which I guess is a boozy 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:11.560 mix of wine, rum and champagne. And then once you've 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:15.160 regained your appetite, the feasting resumes. There's a roast squab course, 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:19.559 cold asparagus vinaigrette fois gras, and then there's dessert, which 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:24.000 includes peaches and charcheris, jelly, chocolate, Vanilla Claire's French ice cream, 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:26.880 and then to close off the meal, there's a variety 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:32.320 of fruits, nuts, and cheeses with coffee, port cigars, and cordials. 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:33.439 It's pretty amiable. 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:36.400 It feels like they just accidentally went ahead and cooked 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:38.560 everything for the week for one meal. I don't even 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:41.319 know how these people would get up and walk after 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:43.040 eating all of this stuff. I don't feel like I 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:45.040 could make it through a single meal. 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:47.440 I know, but if you did want to try, there 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:49.400 are actually places all over the world that now offer 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:52.319 dinners that recreate that last meal that the first class 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:55.640 passengers ate on the ship. And it's kind of a 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:57.880 cob but some people claim it's a great way to 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:02.960 humanize the tragedy or understand the history of the ethics acide. Like, 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:05.640 the biggest drawback is probably the price of these dinners. So, 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:09.520 for instance, there's one restaurant in Houston. It offers a 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:12.720 ten course menu for one thousand dollars per person. There's 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:15.160 also a version of this on a luxury hotel in 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:18.439 Hong Kong, where the price is doubled because it reportedly 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:21.719 serves this vintage nineteen oh seven bottle of wine that's 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:24.080 actually salvage from the wreck of the Titanic. 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:28.000 I like this idea that it somehow humanizes the tragedy 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:30.520 by just sitting there, stopping yourself with all of this. 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:32.960 And drinking fancy old wine. Don't forget. 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:35.080 Yeah, well, I guess so. I guess they know exactly 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:36.959 what it was like to be on the Titanic then, 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:40.000 But that feels a little too rich for my blood. 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:42.600 I feel like maybe i'd spring for a recreation of 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:45.400 maybe like the third class dinner. I mean, that's got 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:47.960 to be a lot cheaper, right, Like. I imagine they were 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:50.240 a bit more down to earth at the second and 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:53.280 third class tables, right, So, I think. 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:55.640 That's a really funny idea, But not as much as 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:58.160 you think, right. Like, So, the first and second class 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:01.280 dining rooms actually shared a galley, so there was probably 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:03.120 a good bit of crossover when it comes to what 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:05.520 was served, kind of like business a first class on 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:08.040 a plane or something, But the main difference would have 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:09.959 been that second class diners wouldn't have had all the 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:12.680 crazy wine pairings a few of the other frills that 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:16.400 the first class people enjoyed, and honestly, even third class 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:18.760 passengers didn't have it too bad when it came to food. 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:21.280 So there was a lot less lamb with mint sauce 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:23.760 and a lot more roast beef and boiled potatoes. But 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:26.800 you actually wouldn't hear that many people complaining about it. 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:30.559 At the time, most ocean liners required third class passengers 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:33.000 to bring their own food to last the entire voyage, 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:35.800 which would have made the Titanic's prepared meals seem really 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:38.960 decadent to most people. I mean, the same can't be 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:42.120 said for the accommodations, though there were actually only two 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:46.000 bathtubs for all seven hundred third class passengers to share. 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:49.920 Oh gosh, well, maybe let's not dwell on that. But 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:52.559 getting back to the food, it's hard for me to 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:55.000 even wrap my head around the amount of work that 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:58.000 must have gone into feeding this many people and multiple 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:01.040 times a day. Like there were twenty two hundred people 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:05.200 aboard the Titanic, you've got thirteen hundred passengers, nine hundred 0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:08.280 crew members, so just doing the math like three meals 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:10.760 a day. That's sixty six hundred meals that the kitchens 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:13.120 had to crank out every twenty four hours, and it 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:15.000 must have been a pretty colossal effort. 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:18.640 It definitely was. So I read this interview with Dana McCauley. 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:21.000 She co wrote a book called Last Dinner on the Titanic, 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:24.880 and she says the Titanic's kitchen crew included one hundred 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:30.319 thirteen cooks, fifteen first cooks who supervised things, twelve pastry chefs, 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:34.600 six bakers, five butchers, and five sous chefs. And you know, 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:36.960 you think about that, that's not even mentioning the dozens 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:39.160 of waiters or bus boys that each meal required. 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:41.959 Yeah, I mean, that's a pretty huge staff. But I'm 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:44.280 actually a bit surprised that it's not even bigger when 0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:47.240 you consider how many people they were feeding and just 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:49.760 the level of sheer variety on those menus that you 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:53.160 talked about. But you know, since you mentioned the Titanic's bakers, 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:55.120 I want to take a second and talk about the 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:58.640 ship's chief baker. He was a guy named Charles Joffin, 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:01.160 and he was a survi of the wreck and live 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:04.640 for decades afterward. But he was also examined as part 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:08.160 of a British inquiry after the accident, and the picture 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:12.200 he paints during his testimony is really pretty amazing. So, 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:15.840 after the Titanic hits the iceberg, sorry for the spoiler there, 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:19.200 but Charles immediately gets to work and he starts rounding 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:21.600 up all the bread he can find to help bolster 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:24.760 the provisions and all the lifeboats. Now he ends up 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:27.440 sending something like forty pounds of bread loaves to the 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:30.080 upper decks, and then he heads back to his cabin 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:32.480 where he proceeds to steal himself with what he called, 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:35.720 quote a drop of liqueur, and I have a feeling 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:37.880 it was a little more than a drop, and honestly, 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:42.040 in that situation, who can blame him. But then Charles 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:44.240 heads to the a deck and he starts helping to 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:47.800 load the lifeboats. Now this is something I hadn't heard before, 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:51.240 but apparently many of the passengers were reluctant to leave 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:54.000 the ship, Like in the first hour or so after 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:56.960 the collision, when only the lower decks were flooding. At 0:14:56.960 --> 0:14:59.320 that point, a lot of the people tried to wave 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:03.000 off the danger and actually refused to get on. These lifeboats. 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:06.440 So Charles knew better in this situation. And so when 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:09.040 he found women and children just squatting on the deck 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:12.440 refusing to budge, he and other crew members began picking 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:16.280 up these stubborn passengers and actually throwing them into the lifeboats. 0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:16.800 Wow. 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:19.640 And then when these last lifeboats were filled and lowered, 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:22.760 Charles went back down to his cabin, had himself another 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:26.400 drop of liqueur, and went right back on the deck. Now, 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:29.000 at this point, the ship was sinking in earnest and 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:31.640 it was clear that the majority of the passengers were 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:34.760 still on board. So he was helpful to the very 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:38.080 last minute, and he tossed some fifty odd deck chairs 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:40.480 into the water so that people would have something to 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:43.000 cling on to when the ship inevitably went under. 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:46.760 That really is inspiring. Also, can I just say how 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:49.960 perfect an activity he chose given his circumstances, Like checking 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:52.440 deck chairs into the ocean is exactly the thing you 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:54.360 should do if you're trapped on a sinking ship and 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:55.560 you've had a few drinks. 0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:58.760 No, it does seem pretty fitting in that scenario. But 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:02.720 here's where really achieves legend status in my eyes, Like 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:06.240 he was actually still abore the Titanic when it split 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:09.760 in half. In fact, he reportedly climbed over the railing 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:13.240 rode the ship down as it sank, and when asked 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:15.520 during his inquiry if he had been dragged under with 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:18.400 the ship, Charles just replied, I do not believe my 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:21.080 head went underwater at all. It may have been wetted, 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:21.840 but no more. 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:24.640 Okay, So this guy's my near hero. 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:27.240 Well, and that's really saying something because there are a 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:30.640 ton of stories about passengers behaving bravely while the ship 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:32.880 went down, And of course these days a lot of 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:36.080 people say chivalry is dead, but that definitely wasn't the 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:37.320 case aboard the Titanic. 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:40.720 Yeah, that's true. I think most people know the famous 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:44.200 policy about evacuating women and children first, and that really 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:46.880 was an explicit order that Captain Smith gave the night 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:49.680 the Titanic sank. But what I never knew before this 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:52.680 week is that Titanic actually proved the exception in that 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:55.240 regard rather than the rule, because it turns out that 0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:59.240 in most maritime disasters, men have had a significantly higher 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:01.000 survival rate than women and children. 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:04.560 Really, I don't think I would have guessed that, but right, well, 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:06.360 I have a ton of questions to ask, and at 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:09.080 some point we do need to talk about the crash itself. 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:10.959 But before we get to any of that, let's take 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:28.480 a quick break. You're listening to Part Time Genius and 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:31.800 we're talking about the enduring legacy of the RMS Titanic. 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:34.280 All right, mego, So before the break, you were saying 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:38.080 that when disaster strikes at sea that men generally fare 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:40.720 better than women and children. So can you explain what 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:41.280 you mean by that? 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:45.800 Sure? So this comes from this sweetest study where researchers 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:48.879 looked at eighteen maritime disasters that happened between eighteen fifty 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:52.280 two and twenty eleven, and what they found was that 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:55.159 women and children survived in greater numbers than men in 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:58.240 only two of the eighteen cases. It was for the 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:02.679 HMS Brokenstock in fifty two and the Titanic in nineteen twelve. 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:05.439 In all other cases, men came out ahead, with an 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:08.680 average survival rate of thirty seven percent, compared to twenty 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:11.600 seven percent for women and just fifteen percent for children. 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:13.879 And that was the only surprise to come out of 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:16.560 the study either, because it turns out the crew members 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:19.159 actually have the highest survival rate. They come out with 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:23.280 a whopping sixty one percent. And you know, this romantic 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:25.560 idea of captains choosing to go down with the ships, right, 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:28.960 that apparently doesn't happen as often as we assume, because 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:32.199 even captains tend to have a higher survival rate than passengers. 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:34.760 But you're saying that wasn't the case the night the 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:35.840 Titanic sank. 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:39.800 Exactly So with Titanic, women actually had a seventy five 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:42.840 percent survival rate compared to just seventeen percent for men. 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:45.720 And it's the same with children. Half the kids aboard 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:47.400 the Titanic survived the ordeal. 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:49.399 All right, So do we know why that is? Like, 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:52.520 what made the Titanic so different? Was its crew just 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:55.639 like that much better at following the correct procedure or 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:56.440 what happened there? 0:18:57.280 --> 0:19:00.879 That's the thing. The whole women and children first was explicit, 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:03.000 and it wasn't this like ridden rule at the time. 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:05.800 And in fact, as we see with those other sixteen cases, 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:08.560 the real policy is closer to first come, first server, 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:12.240 or even every man for himself. But that's one way 0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:14.879 in which Birkenstock and Titanic stick out from the others, 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:17.720 because in both those cases, the captains gave this direct 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:20.359 order that women and children should be evacuated first. 0:19:21.480 --> 0:19:23.920 So if that's the case, then the higher survival rates 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:25.800 for women and children it's really thanks more to the 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:28.960 captains and crew like, not necessarily the passengers of the 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:31.919 Titanic being chivalrous, was really more the captain. 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:34.760 So that is one way to look at it. But 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:37.080 on the other hand, we do have plenty of reports 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:40.200 of crew members and even passengers who chose to remain 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:42.280 on board and help others rather than take up space 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:45.320