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Speaker 1: Guess what mango?

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Speaker 2: What's that? Will see?

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Speaker 1: You remember a couple of weeks ago when the artist

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Speaker 1: banks He pulled that incredible prank on the entire auction world.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was when it was painting just self destructed

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Speaker 2: in front of everyone. Wasn't it worth over a million dollars?

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Speaker 1: It was actually one point four million dollars? And the

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Speaker 1: crazy part is they say it's probably worth even more

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Speaker 1: now and the person who had bid on it, you know,

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Speaker 1: has agreed to pay that price.

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Speaker 2: That's crazy. I mean, I guess it does make it

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Speaker 2: more unique, but it's still really weird how much people

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Speaker 2: will pay for things.

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Speaker 1: No, it definitely is. And actually I find this kind

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Speaker 1: of thing fascinating. I mean, it's it's always interesting to

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Speaker 1: see what people will pay big money for at auction.

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Speaker 1: So I was recently looking at this list of the

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Speaker 1: things people have bid on over the years that are

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Speaker 1: related to the Titanic disaster, and one thing that went

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Speaker 1: for even more than that Banksy painting is the violin

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Speaker 1: played by William Hartley as the Titanic sank. Now, many

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Speaker 1: of us have heard this legend before, and it's of

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Speaker 1: course impossible to verify, you know, every piece of it.

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Speaker 1: But the idea is that Hartley, who was the band leader,

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Speaker 1: that he asked his seven musicians to keep playing as

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Speaker 1: the ship was going down, And so some tell the

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Speaker 1: story that he led his crew in playing Near My

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Speaker 1: God to thee and you know, that may not be

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Speaker 1: completely true. It does appear that the musicians did maintain

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Speaker 1: their composure and they continued playing something what we don't

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Speaker 1: know exactly what it was, but that violin that Hartley

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Speaker 1: played sold back in twenty thirteen for one point seven

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Speaker 1: million dollars. And I guess it's really no surprise because,

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Speaker 1: you know, more than one hundred years after the tragic event,

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Speaker 1: we're still fascinated by it. So today we'll try to

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Speaker 1: better understand why that is, you know, and ask some

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Speaker 1: of the questions like what did people know about the

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Speaker 1: Titanic before it set sail, what was life like on board,

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Speaker 1: and what were some of the strange ways people chose

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Speaker 1: to remember the ship after the disaster. So let's get started, Hey,

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Speaker 1: their podcast listeners, welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm Will

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Speaker 1: Pearson and as always I'm joined by my good friend

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Speaker 1: mangesh Hot Ticketer and on the other side of the

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Speaker 1: soundproof glass wearing a button that just says proud member

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Speaker 1: of the just Mysstic club. That's our friend and producer

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Speaker 1: Tristan McNeil. Now a lot of people don't know this,

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Speaker 1: but Tristan very nearly booked himself on a trip on

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Speaker 1: the Titanic back in nineteen twelve. Thankfully, the plan fell

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Speaker 1: apart at the very last minute, you know, on account

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Speaker 1: of his not having been born yet, so ultimately he

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Speaker 1: missed the boat.

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Speaker 2: Which is just such a lucky break. But you know,

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Speaker 2: Tristan isn't alone in telling tall tales about how he

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Speaker 2: narrowly escaped death on the Titanic. In fact, just five

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Speaker 2: days after the sinking, there are already press reports about

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Speaker 2: the so called US Missed It Club and how it

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Speaker 2: already had six nine hundred four members. And so this

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Speaker 2: was obviously tongue in cheek, but it was also kind

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Speaker 2: of true. Like a suspiciously large number of people had

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Speaker 2: come forward claiming they'd missed the boat because they'd been

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Speaker 2: running late that morning, or they'd gotten sick or whatever,

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Speaker 2: but everyone knew most of the stories were completely made up.

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Speaker 2: Like in one of the press reports I mentioned, they

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Speaker 2: had a sarcastic quote from a guy who said, quote,

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Speaker 2: I count it lucky that I didn't have the money

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Speaker 2: to go abroad this year. If all of us who

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Speaker 2: just missed it had got aboard the Titanic, she would

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Speaker 2: have sunk at the Liverpool Dock from the overload.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad the public didn't fall for all these stories.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's such a strange compulsion in the first place,

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Speaker 1: you know, to lie like that because I don't know,

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Speaker 1: because you want to attach yourself to a tragedy. But

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Speaker 1: I guess that goes to show how captivated people were

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Speaker 1: by the story of the Titanic. And the really amazing

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Speaker 1: thing is that more than one hundred years later, many

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Speaker 1: of us are still just as captivated. So at this

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Speaker 1: point the disaster, it feels like it's taken on kind

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Speaker 1: of a mythical status in world culture, and it's become

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Speaker 1: one of those stories that everybody seems to know. In fact,

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Speaker 1: I read in Smithsonian that Titanic is actually the third

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Speaker 1: most recognized word in the world, just below God and

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Speaker 1: Coca cola. And you know, while it's true that interest

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Speaker 1: in the story has ebbed and flowed over time, it's

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Speaker 1: still something that we always seem to come back to

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Speaker 1: So today we'll take a look at why that is

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Speaker 1: and why Titanic still fascinates us all these years later,

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Speaker 1: and help answer that. We'll talk about the impact the

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Speaker 1: tragedies had on the world, both in the short term

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Speaker 1: and the long term, and we'll also dig a little

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Speaker 1: deeper into life aboard the ship, which you know, includes

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Speaker 1: the surprising stories of a few standout passengers. It's definitely

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Speaker 1: a lot to cover, so let's get to it. But

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Speaker 1: where do you want to start, Mango, Well, I.

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Speaker 2: Thought we could start with one of the biggest reasons

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Speaker 2: that people have stayed invested in the Titanic, and that's

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Speaker 2: just the ship itself. So most of us know that

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Speaker 2: at the time it was the largest ocean liner ever constructed,

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Speaker 2: and more broadly, the large just men made moving object

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Speaker 2: in the world. It was about eight hundred and eighty

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Speaker 2: feet long and one hundred and seventy five feet tall,

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Speaker 2: which means the ship was as long as three football

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Speaker 2: fields and as tall as a seventeen story building. Isn't

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Speaker 2: that insane?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it was definitely a massive ship for

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Speaker 1: its time, no question about that, But it wouldn't really

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Speaker 1: be that impressive today though, right I mean, we have

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Speaker 1: cruise ships that are more than four times that size now,

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Speaker 1: so it does make me wonder, like why the size

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Speaker 1: of the Titanic still captures people's interest.

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Speaker 2: So I think it's partly the perception that the Titanic

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Speaker 2: was kind of tempting fate in a way, like the

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Speaker 2: fact that the ship held that title as the world's

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Speaker 2: largest and then it ended up sinking on its maiden voyage.

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Speaker 2: It feels like this cautionary tale about man's hubris in

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Speaker 2: some people's minds, Like it's almost like a Tower of

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Speaker 2: Babbel situation or something where man kind of overreached and

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Speaker 2: then was made to suffer for it. And I think

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Speaker 2: that still resonates for people, especially since we've heard so

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Speaker 2: many stories now about how luxurious and decadent the ship was,

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Speaker 2: especially compared to others at the time.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, before we get to that fateful night

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Speaker 1: with the iceberg, I do want to spend a little

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Speaker 1: more time on board and talk about a few of

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Speaker 1: those deck in it details that you alluded to. So,

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Speaker 1: for example, the Titanic was one of the first ships

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Speaker 1: to have electric lights in all of its rooms. It

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Speaker 1: also had way more amenities than most other ships, and

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Speaker 1: so just looking at the list, here among those were

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Speaker 1: four elevators, a heated swimming pool, two libraries, two barber shops,

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Speaker 1: a squash court, a Turkish bath, and even it's on

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Speaker 1: onboard newspaper called the Atlantic Daily Bulletin.

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Speaker 2: So I hadn't heard about the paper. I'm guessing that

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Speaker 2: means that they had a printing press on board.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there was a small print shop on

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Speaker 1: the D deck, and of course this was close to

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Speaker 1: the butcher's shop in case you're wondering.

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Speaker 2: Now I know where i'd get my PASTROMI on that.

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Speaker 2: That's right, But I mean, it really does feel like

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Speaker 2: they thought about everything. My favorite Titanic amenity, though it

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Speaker 2: is probably the onboard gymnasium, Like it had all the

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Speaker 2: best equipment, naturally, including old standards like rowing machines, weights,

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Speaker 2: punching bags, but it also had this cutting edge gear,

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Speaker 2: like they had two static bicycles with two foot dials

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Speaker 2: attached to show the distance that had been traveled. And

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Speaker 2: there were also a few electric horses, which were these

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Speaker 2: big mechanical saddles meant to mimic riding a horse.

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Speaker 1: I mean, does that even count as exercise? It kind

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Speaker 1: of feels like it would be less of a workout

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Speaker 1: for the rider than for the horse, or I guess

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Speaker 1: the saddle in this case.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think it was supposed to streadden your

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Speaker 2: core or maybe some leg muscles, But either way, I

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Speaker 2: doubt any of the passenger has worked up that much

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Speaker 2: of a sweat. Like, if you look at pictures from

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Speaker 2: floating gyms on the Titanic and other ships of the era,

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Speaker 2: most of the passengers are exercising while they're wearing their

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Speaker 2: full get up, So it's like a bunch of really

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Speaker 2: sedate and calm looking people in these three piece suits

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Speaker 2: or like big Edwardian dresses and hats, and they're just

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Speaker 2: kind of half heartedly pedling on the bikes or whatever.

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Speaker 2: It's pretty lazy looking.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I've actually seen some of these pictures, and honestly,

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Speaker 1: my guess is that it's the first time in a

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Speaker 1: gym for most of them, because nobody looks like they

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Speaker 1: know what they're doing at all.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's a good thing that they had a

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Speaker 2: personal trainer on board the Titanic. This is real. His

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Speaker 2: name was Thomas McCauley, and it was this guy's job

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Speaker 2: to show passengers how to use the equipment, and even

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Speaker 2: to provide one on one training sessions. And it seems

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Speaker 2: like McCauley took his job super seriously because the night

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Speaker 2: the ship sank, he actually chose to stay at his

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Speaker 2: post in the gym and go down with the ship.

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Speaker 1: Wait, seriously, I mean, I don't want to speak ill

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Speaker 1: of the dead, but that sort of seems a little

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Speaker 1: bit unnecessary. I mean, we did talk about how the

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Speaker 1: band chose to continue playing as the ship sank, and

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Speaker 1: to me though, that makes sense because it was a

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Speaker 1: way to sacrifice and to calm the passengers, or to

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Speaker 1: give them at least some sense of peace. But I mean,

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Speaker 1: why keep the gym open. I can't imagine anybody was thinking, like,

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Speaker 1: I think, I'll just get in a few more reps

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Speaker 1: before whatever happens here happens.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Probably not, But if anyone was trying to burn

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Speaker 2: like a few calories for the road, I really wouldn't

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Speaker 2: blame them. I mean, the meals on board the Titanic

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Speaker 2: were pretty epic, at least for the first class passengers,

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Speaker 2: and so the dinners were gourmet affairs with up to

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Speaker 2: thirteen courses, each of which came with its own paired wine.

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Speaker 2: There was also a pre dinner cocktail service that was

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Speaker 2: added as a concession to American passengers. Apparently European passengers

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Speaker 2: weren't fans of this idea because they thought mixed drinks

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Speaker 2: ruined your palette before eating. But from start to finish,

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Speaker 2: these elaborate meals could last as long as four or

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Speaker 2: five hours, and because the first class menu was actually

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Speaker 2: later recovered, we actually know exactly what the wealthiest Titanic

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Speaker 2: passengers had for dinner the night the ship went down,

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Speaker 2: and it was an incredible spread. The feast started with

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Speaker 2: raw oysters and a selection of ordeuvres, followed by a

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Speaker 2: choice of two soups. Then came a lightly pushed Atlantic

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Speaker 2: salmon topped with a rich moose. For the fourth and

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Speaker 2: fifth courses, passengers chose from such rich entrees as a

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Speaker 2: filet mignon or a lamb with mint sauce. And then

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Speaker 2: at the halfway point of the meal, this is only

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Speaker 2: halfway through the meal, you get a palate cleanser. It's

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Speaker 2: it's a punch romaine, which I guess is a boozy

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Speaker 2: mix of wine, rum and champagne. And then once you've

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Speaker 2: regained your appetite, the feasting resumes. There's a roast squab course,

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Speaker 2: cold asparagus vinaigrette fois gras, and then there's dessert, which

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Speaker 2: includes peaches and charcheris, jelly, chocolate, Vanilla Claire's French ice cream,

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Speaker 2: and then to close off the meal, there's a variety

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Speaker 2: of fruits, nuts, and cheeses with coffee, port cigars, and cordials.

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Speaker 2: It's pretty amiable.

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Speaker 1: It feels like they just accidentally went ahead and cooked

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Speaker 1: everything for the week for one meal. I don't even

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Speaker 1: know how these people would get up and walk after

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Speaker 1: eating all of this stuff. I don't feel like I

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Speaker 1: could make it through a single meal.

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Speaker 2: I know, but if you did want to try, there

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Speaker 2: are actually places all over the world that now offer

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Speaker 2: dinners that recreate that last meal that the first class

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Speaker 2: passengers ate on the ship. And it's kind of a

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Speaker 2: cob but some people claim it's a great way to

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Speaker 2: humanize the tragedy or understand the history of the ethics acide. Like,

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Speaker 2: the biggest drawback is probably the price of these dinners. So,

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Speaker 2: for instance, there's one restaurant in Houston. It offers a

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Speaker 2: ten course menu for one thousand dollars per person. There's

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Speaker 2: also a version of this on a luxury hotel in

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Speaker 2: Hong Kong, where the price is doubled because it reportedly

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Speaker 2: serves this vintage nineteen oh seven bottle of wine that's

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Speaker 2: actually salvage from the wreck of the Titanic.

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Speaker 1: I like this idea that it somehow humanizes the tragedy

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Speaker 1: by just sitting there, stopping yourself with all of this.

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Speaker 2: And drinking fancy old wine. Don't forget.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I guess so. I guess they know exactly

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Speaker 1: what it was like to be on the Titanic then,

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Speaker 1: But that feels a little too rich for my blood.

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Speaker 1: I feel like maybe i'd spring for a recreation of

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Speaker 1: maybe like the third class dinner. I mean, that's got

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Speaker 1: to be a lot cheaper, right, Like. I imagine they were

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Speaker 1: a bit more down to earth at the second and

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Speaker 1: third class tables, right, So, I think.

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Speaker 2: That's a really funny idea, But not as much as

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Speaker 2: you think, right. Like, So, the first and second class

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Speaker 2: dining rooms actually shared a galley, so there was probably

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Speaker 2: a good bit of crossover when it comes to what

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Speaker 2: was served, kind of like business a first class on

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Speaker 2: a plane or something, But the main difference would have

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Speaker 2: been that second class diners wouldn't have had all the

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Speaker 2: crazy wine pairings a few of the other frills that

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Speaker 2: the first class people enjoyed, and honestly, even third class

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Speaker 2: passengers didn't have it too bad when it came to food.

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Speaker 2: So there was a lot less lamb with mint sauce

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Speaker 2: and a lot more roast beef and boiled potatoes. But

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Speaker 2: you actually wouldn't hear that many people complaining about it.

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Speaker 2: At the time, most ocean liners required third class passengers

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Speaker 2: to bring their own food to last the entire voyage,

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Speaker 2: which would have made the Titanic's prepared meals seem really

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Speaker 2: decadent to most people. I mean, the same can't be

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Speaker 2: said for the accommodations, though there were actually only two

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Speaker 2: bathtubs for all seven hundred third class passengers to share.

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Speaker 1: Oh gosh, well, maybe let's not dwell on that. But

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Speaker 1: getting back to the food, it's hard for me to

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Speaker 1: even wrap my head around the amount of work that

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Speaker 1: must have gone into feeding this many people and multiple

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Speaker 1: times a day. Like there were twenty two hundred people

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Speaker 1: aboard the Titanic, you've got thirteen hundred passengers, nine hundred

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Speaker 1: crew members, so just doing the math like three meals

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Speaker 1: a day. That's sixty six hundred meals that the kitchens

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Speaker 1: had to crank out every twenty four hours, and it

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Speaker 1: must have been a pretty colossal effort.

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Speaker 2: It definitely was. So I read this interview with Dana McCauley.

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Speaker 2: She co wrote a book called Last Dinner on the Titanic,

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Speaker 2: and she says the Titanic's kitchen crew included one hundred

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Speaker 2: thirteen cooks, fifteen first cooks who supervised things, twelve pastry chefs,

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Speaker 2: six bakers, five butchers, and five sous chefs. And you know,

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Speaker 2: you think about that, that's not even mentioning the dozens

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Speaker 2: of waiters or bus boys that each meal required.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's a pretty huge staff. But I'm

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Speaker 1: actually a bit surprised that it's not even bigger when

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Speaker 1: you consider how many people they were feeding and just

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Speaker 1: the level of sheer variety on those menus that you

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Speaker 1: talked about. But you know, since you mentioned the Titanic's bakers,

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Speaker 1: I want to take a second and talk about the

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Speaker 1: ship's chief baker. He was a guy named Charles Joffin,

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Speaker 1: and he was a survi of the wreck and live

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Speaker 1: for decades afterward. But he was also examined as part

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Speaker 1: of a British inquiry after the accident, and the picture

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Speaker 1: he paints during his testimony is really pretty amazing. So,

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Speaker 1: after the Titanic hits the iceberg, sorry for the spoiler there,

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Speaker 1: but Charles immediately gets to work and he starts rounding

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Speaker 1: up all the bread he can find to help bolster

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Speaker 1: the provisions and all the lifeboats. Now he ends up

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Speaker 1: sending something like forty pounds of bread loaves to the

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Speaker 1: upper decks, and then he heads back to his cabin

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Speaker 1: where he proceeds to steal himself with what he called,

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Speaker 1: quote a drop of liqueur, and I have a feeling

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Speaker 1: it was a little more than a drop, and honestly,

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Speaker 1: in that situation, who can blame him. But then Charles

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Speaker 1: heads to the a deck and he starts helping to

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Speaker 1: load the lifeboats. Now this is something I hadn't heard before,

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Speaker 1: but apparently many of the passengers were reluctant to leave

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Speaker 1: the ship, Like in the first hour or so after

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Speaker 1: the collision, when only the lower decks were flooding. At

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Speaker 1: that point, a lot of the people tried to wave

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Speaker 1: off the danger and actually refused to get on. These lifeboats.

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Speaker 1: So Charles knew better in this situation. And so when

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Speaker 1: he found women and children just squatting on the deck

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Speaker 1: refusing to budge, he and other crew members began picking

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Speaker 1: up these stubborn passengers and actually throwing them into the lifeboats.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: And then when these last lifeboats were filled and lowered,

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Speaker 1: Charles went back down to his cabin, had himself another

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Speaker 1: drop of liqueur, and went right back on the deck. Now,

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Speaker 1: at this point, the ship was sinking in earnest and

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Speaker 1: it was clear that the majority of the passengers were

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Speaker 1: still on board. So he was helpful to the very

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Speaker 1: last minute, and he tossed some fifty odd deck chairs

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Speaker 1: into the water so that people would have something to

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Speaker 1: cling on to when the ship inevitably went under.

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Speaker 2: That really is inspiring. Also, can I just say how

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Speaker 2: perfect an activity he chose given his circumstances, Like checking

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Speaker 2: deck chairs into the ocean is exactly the thing you

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Speaker 2: should do if you're trapped on a sinking ship and

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Speaker 2: you've had a few drinks.

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Speaker 1: No, it does seem pretty fitting in that scenario. But

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Speaker 1: here's where really achieves legend status in my eyes, Like

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Speaker 1: he was actually still abore the Titanic when it split

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Speaker 1: in half. In fact, he reportedly climbed over the railing

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Speaker 1: rode the ship down as it sank, and when asked

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Speaker 1: during his inquiry if he had been dragged under with

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Speaker 1: the ship, Charles just replied, I do not believe my

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Speaker 1: head went underwater at all. It may have been wetted,

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Speaker 1: but no more.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So this guy's my near hero.

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Speaker 1: Well, and that's really saying something because there are a

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Speaker 1: ton of stories about passengers behaving bravely while the ship

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Speaker 1: went down, And of course these days a lot of

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Speaker 1: people say chivalry is dead, but that definitely wasn't the

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Speaker 1: case aboard the Titanic.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. I think most people know the famous

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Speaker 2: policy about evacuating women and children first, and that really

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Speaker 2: was an explicit order that Captain Smith gave the night

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Speaker 2: the Titanic sank. But what I never knew before this

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Speaker 2: week is that Titanic actually proved the exception in that

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Speaker 2: regard rather than the rule, because it turns out that

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Speaker 2: in most maritime disasters, men have had a significantly higher

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Speaker 2: survival rate than women and children.

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Speaker 1: Really, I don't think I would have guessed that, but right, well,

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Speaker 1: I have a ton of questions to ask, and at

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Speaker 1: some point we do need to talk about the crash itself.

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Speaker 1: But before we get to any of that, let's take

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Speaker 1: a quick break. You're listening to Part Time Genius and

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Speaker 1: we're talking about the enduring legacy of the RMS Titanic.

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Speaker 1: All right, mego, So before the break, you were saying

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Speaker 1: that when disaster strikes at sea that men generally fare

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Speaker 1: better than women and children. So can you explain what

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Speaker 1: you mean by that?

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Speaker 2: Sure? So this comes from this sweetest study where researchers

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Speaker 2: looked at eighteen maritime disasters that happened between eighteen fifty

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Speaker 2: two and twenty eleven, and what they found was that

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Speaker 2: women and children survived in greater numbers than men in

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Speaker 2: only two of the eighteen cases. It was for the

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Speaker 2: HMS Brokenstock in fifty two and the Titanic in nineteen twelve.

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Speaker 2: In all other cases, men came out ahead, with an

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Speaker 2: average survival rate of thirty seven percent, compared to twenty

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Speaker 2: seven percent for women and just fifteen percent for children.

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Speaker 2: And that was the only surprise to come out of

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Speaker 2: the study either, because it turns out the crew members

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Speaker 2: actually have the highest survival rate. They come out with

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Speaker 2: a whopping sixty one percent. And you know, this romantic

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Speaker 2: idea of captains choosing to go down with the ships, right,

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Speaker 2: that apparently doesn't happen as often as we assume, because

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Speaker 2: even captains tend to have a higher survival rate than passengers.

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Speaker 1: But you're saying that wasn't the case the night the

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Speaker 1: Titanic sank.

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Speaker 2: Exactly So with Titanic, women actually had a seventy five

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Speaker 2: percent survival rate compared to just seventeen percent for men.

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Speaker 2: And it's the same with children. Half the kids aboard

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Speaker 2: the Titanic survived the ordeal.

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Speaker 1: All right, So do we know why that is? Like,

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Speaker 1: what made the Titanic so different? Was its crew just

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Speaker 1: like that much better at following the correct procedure or

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Speaker 1: what happened there?

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Speaker 2: That's the thing. The whole women and children first was explicit,

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Speaker 2: and it wasn't this like ridden rule at the time.

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Speaker 2: And in fact, as we see with those other sixteen cases,

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Speaker 2: the real policy is closer to first come, first server,

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Speaker 2: or even every man for himself. But that's one way

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Speaker 2: in which Birkenstock and Titanic stick out from the others,

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Speaker 2: because in both those cases, the captains gave this direct

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Speaker 2: order that women and children should be evacuated first.

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Speaker 1: So if that's the case, then the higher survival rates

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Speaker 1: for women and children it's really thanks more to the

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Speaker 1: captains and crew like, not necessarily the passengers of the

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Speaker 1: Titanic being chivalrous, was really more the captain.

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Speaker 2: So that is one way to look at it. But

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Speaker 2: on the other hand, we do have plenty of reports

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Speaker 2: of crew members and even passengers who chose to remain

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Speaker 2: on board and help others rather than take up space

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Speaker 2: and lifeboats. I mean, supposedly there were just people on

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Speaker 2: deck just standing and smoking cigars drinking brandy while others

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Speaker 2: fled for their lives. And while that might sound kind

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Speaker 2: of silly or naivetas, I think those guys absolutely knew

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Speaker 2: what they were doing. They were willing to die in

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Speaker 2: order to give other people a shot at living, all.

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Speaker 1: Right, So then what do we make of this, Like,

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Speaker 1: are we saying the passengers of Titanic and I guess

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Speaker 1: Birkenstock just happened to be more selfless than you know,

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Speaker 1: people in these other ship wrecks, And me, I feel

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Speaker 1: like there's got to be more to it than that.

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Speaker 2: I read the study from an Australian economist. His name's

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Speaker 2: David Savage, and he actually suggested that Titanic's passengers behave

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Speaker 2: more altruistically simply because they had the time to do so.

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Speaker 2: Like if you think about the wreck of the Lusitania,

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Speaker 2: which was this other luxury liner from the era, which

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Speaker 2: I'm sure you've heard of, it had a similar number

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Speaker 2: of passengers and survivals to the Titanic. But whereas the

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Speaker 2: Lusitania sank in less than twenty minutes, Titanic took nearly

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Speaker 2: three hours. And that's why Savage suggests that the longer

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Speaker 2: timeline allowed social norms to assert themselves aboard the Titanic.

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Speaker 2: So instead of giving into the panic self interest as

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Speaker 2: passengers aboard the Lusitania and most of the other ships did,

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Speaker 2: the people aboard the Titanic had enough time to tamp

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Speaker 2: down their self preservation instincts and really act in favor

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Speaker 2: of the group instead. And you know, I have to

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Speaker 2: wonder if that, in itself is one of the reasons

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Speaker 2: that people are still so affected by the Titanic story today. Like,

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Speaker 2: if you think about it, this was one of those

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Speaker 2: rare tragedies where the people involved actually had the time

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Speaker 2: to think about their circumstances and how they wanted to

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Speaker 2: spend their final moments, and that's not really a luxury

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00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:19,800
Speaker 2: that many have had in major disasters in the last century.

434
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:22,840
Speaker 1: Well, and think about how much worse things could have

435
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,919
Speaker 1: gone if the passengers didn't have that extra bit of time.

436
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,400
Speaker 1: I mean, as it stands, there were only about seven

437
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:32,480
Speaker 1: hundred survivors from Titanic, which means roughly fifteen hundred people

438
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:36,000
Speaker 1: lost their lives that night, and if there'd been mass panic,

439
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,440
Speaker 1: it's likely that even more people would have died in

440
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:39,119
Speaker 1: the process.

441
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, though I do question how much better things really

442
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:44,880
Speaker 2: could have been. Like, at the end of the day,

443
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,240
Speaker 2: the ship just didn't have anywhere near the number of

444
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,919
Speaker 2: lifeboats it would have technically taken to save everyone on board.

445
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 2: And that's what the ship at half capacity like the

446
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,560
Speaker 2: Titanic technically could have fit another eleven hundred people on board,

447
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,240
Speaker 2: which undoubtedly would have made it an even bigger tragedy.

448
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. And you know, people often point to

449
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:08,280
Speaker 1: those lack of lifeboats aboard the Titanic as another example

450
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,439
Speaker 1: of the hubris of the ship's owners and creators. And

451
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,199
Speaker 1: you know, to a certain extent that makes sense. Like

452
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 1: one of the stories I hear a lot is how

453
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,840
Speaker 1: the ship could have easily carried twice the amount of

454
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,119
Speaker 1: lifeboats that it had, only the designers didn't want to

455
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 1: ruin the esthetics by cluttering the deck with more boats.

456
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,160
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just absurd. And well, that may be true,

457
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,119
Speaker 1: it's worth noting that Titanic was completely up to code

458
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 1: when it came to lifeboats. In fact, it was actually

459
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 1: more compliant than it even had to be, because instead

460
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 1: of having sixteen lifeboats as the Board of Trade required,

461
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,080
Speaker 1: the ship actually had twenty.

462
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,160
Speaker 2: I mean that sounds ridiculous, Like a ship as big

463
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 2: as the Titanic was only required to have sixteen lifeboats.

464
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,400
Speaker 2: How is that even possible? Like didn't they know how

465
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 2: many people were going to be on board?

466
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:56,840
Speaker 1: Well they did, But the thing is like the number

467
00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,639
Speaker 1: of passengers wasn't actually a factor, and the hermiting this.

468
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 1: So prior to Titanic, the number of lifeboats needed was

469
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 1: based solely on a ship's weight. So whether the ship

470
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 1: the size of the Titanic was sailing half full or

471
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,679
Speaker 1: completely empty, it would have still been required to carry

472
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 1: just sixteen lifeboats. Now, the good news is that Titanic

473
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,639
Speaker 1: shined a light on how little sense this made and practice,

474
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 1: and so thanks to that public scrutiny and sended enquiries

475
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 1: that took place in the days after the disaster, regulations

476
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 1: definitely changed and the number of lifeboats started to be

477
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 1: determined by the number of people on board, not by

478
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 1: how much a ship weighed, which just seems weird that

479
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 1: we even have to say that, because who else would

480
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 1: be getting on these lifeboats other than the people on

481
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 1: the ship.

482
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 2: Definitely a smart change, And you know, there were actually

483
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 2: a couple other positive things to come out of the

484
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 2: Titanic tragedy. For example, maritime agencies began using round the

485
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 2: clock wireless monitoring to keep track of ships and to

486
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 2: make sure that few distress calls were missed, and that's

487
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 2: a that made a huge difference during World War One,

488
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,920
Speaker 2: when large ships were frequent targets for enemy torpedoes. In fact,

489
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 2: the ship that rescued the Titanic, I think it was

490
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 2: called the Carpathia. It was sunk six years later by

491
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,920
Speaker 2: a torpedo fired from a German U boat. But thanks

492
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 2: to the lessons from Titanic, the Carpathia had plenty of

493
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 2: lifeboats in a direct line to call for help. And

494
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,680
Speaker 2: as a result of this preparedness, not a single crew

495
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 2: member or passenger drowned that day.

496
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 1: That's pretty amazing. And you know, actually we neglected to

497
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: mention what's probably my favorite advancement to come out of Titanic,

498
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 1: and that's the creation of what's called the International Ice Patrol. Now,

499
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,679
Speaker 1: this was established the very next year after the Titanic sank,

500
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 1: and the organization has spent the last one hundred plus

501
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 1: years just patrolling the North Atlantic and tracking the movement

502
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 1: of icebergs. And so, you know, the way that it

503
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,400
Speaker 1: worked in the early days is that a patrol ship

504
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: would just head out into the open ocean, find the

505
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,640
Speaker 1: southernmost iceberg and then just kind of keep an eye

506
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: on it for the rest of the season. And so

507
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: it would follow the iceberg wherever it went and then

508
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 1: just report those movements so that the other boats would

509
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 1: know how to steer.

510
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 2: Clear, which is awesome. And you said this is something

511
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 2: that still goes on today.

512
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Patrol is actually part of the US Coast

513
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 1: Guard now and so these days they mostly do their

514
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,439
Speaker 1: scouting by plane, but satellites are also a factor now

515
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 1: and of course, sometimes the team will still take a

516
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 1: ship out and babysit the icebergs. Really kind of the

517
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:24,880
Speaker 1: old fashioned way.

518
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 2: Well, I know, we also wanted to talk about some

519
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 2: of the impact that Titanic's had on culture, both in

520
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 2: the US and abroad. But before we do that, let's

521
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 2: take one more quick break. Okay, Well, so let's talk

522
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 2: about the first time Titanic fever gripped society, which, of

523
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 2: course was back when news of the ships sinking first broke.

524
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 2: And the guy who actually got the scoop was this

525
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 2: journalist named Carlos Heard, who happened to be in just

526
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,160
Speaker 2: the right place at just the right time.

527
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 1: Wait, don't tell me he was actually a passenger on

528
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 1: the Titanic.

529
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 2: Was he? No? But super close. He was actually one

530
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,719
Speaker 2: of the original passengers on board the Carpathia before it

531
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 2: was re routed to aid in the rescue operation. So

532
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 2: during the four day trip to New York, Carlos was

533
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 2: able to interview many of the Titanic survivors and then

534
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:21,959
Speaker 2: turn those accounts into a five thousand word story.

535
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 1: So is it true like the public didn't know anything

536
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 1: about the disaster until his story came out?

537
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 2: Well, where did the collision reach the mainland thanks to

538
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 2: wireless messages sent from both the Titanic and the Carpathia.

539
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 2: But these communications were short on details, and they came

540
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,680
Speaker 2: nowhere close to capturing the full scope of the tragedy.

541
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 2: And while there was plenty of time to fill people

542
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 2: in during the voyage to New York, like, the captain

543
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 2: of the Carpathia actually banned everyone on board from sharing

544
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 2: any information with the media aside from a list of

545
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 2: which passengers had survived and which had perished.

546
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: And so did people honor his wishes?

547
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 2: Definitely not, because when the Carpathia had finally arrived at port,

548
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,679
Speaker 2: it was immediately surrounded by small boats that had been

549
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 2: chartered by over eager news companies. According to the Smithsonian quote,

550
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 2: reporters shouted through megaphones on their tugboats offered terrific sums

551
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 2: of money for information exclusives, but Captain Rostron said he

552
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 2: would shoot any pressman who dared venture aboard his ship.

553
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: All right, Well, so then how did carlos Herd get

554
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: his story out? Because I'm going to have to imagine

555
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 1: he and others were stuck on the boat for a while.

556
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:27,479
Speaker 1: Once they got to New York and especially if they

557
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 1: were so besieged by the press.

558
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 2: That is true, which is why Carlos had to get

559
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:32,920
Speaker 2: creative if he was going to crack one of the

560
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 2: biggest stories of the decade. And this is incredible. So

561
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:38,879
Speaker 2: you know, he sent the secret wireless message to a

562
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 2: friend at a New York newspaper telling him to charter

563
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 2: a tugboat, and then the guy sailed to the Carpathia

564
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 2: that evening. Then behind the captain's back, Carlos stuffed his

565
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,440
Speaker 2: story into a waterproof bag and discreetly tossed it onto

566
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 2: this waiting boat. And later that very night, the New

567
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 2: York Evening World published his story. It was the first

568
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 2: include accurate details about what had happened.

569
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's wild to look back and see just

570
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,640
Speaker 1: how fast the story spread and kind of took root

571
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: in people's minds after that, and all in the days

572
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 1: before television or really even the radio craze for that matter.

573
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 1: And for instance, I was reading how manufacturers rushed to

574
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: produce Titanic merchandise and the days following the crash, so

575
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: in a matter of weeks, the market was flooded with

576
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 1: all sorts of commemorative products from postcards and dinner plates

577
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 1: to music boxes, whiskey jiggers. I was even reading about

578
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,479
Speaker 1: this German toy company called stef that released a limited

579
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 1: edition Titanic teddy bear shortly after the ship sank. And

580
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: it's really weird, like it was actually called the Morning

581
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: Bear because it was made to look like it was

582
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: grieving the victims, like it had all black fur and

583
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 1: these red rimmed eyes to make it look like the

584
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: bear had been crying, and it's just gross, to be

585
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: honest with you. And apparently the idea had come from

586
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 1: a report about the Titanic senior engineer William Moves, who

587
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: went down with the ship and supposedly he had a

588
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: stiff teddy Bear on board with him, so the company

589
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: decided to release a memorial bear in his honor. And

590
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 1: the craziest part is that today the stif Morning Bears

591
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 1: typically go for upwards of twenty grand a piece at auction.

592
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 2: That is insane. So one of the biggest surprises in

593
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 2: preparing for today's episode was really that, like seeing just

594
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 2: how quickly people began to capitalize on Titanic, And I

595
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 2: think one of the best examples of that is the

596
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 2: fact that exactly one month after the ship went down,

597
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 2: the very first movie about Titanic premiered in theaters.

598
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: Wait did you say one month after? Like I obviously

599
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: knew the nineteen ninety seven movie wasn't the first to

600
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: tackle the subject, But I mean, I can't see any

601
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 1: way that something could have come out that quickly one

602
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: month after such a real life tragedy.

603
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you haven't even heard the wildest part yet,

604
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 2: because this movie, which was called Saved from the Titanic,

605
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 2: actually starred a young silent film actress named Dorothy Gibson,

606
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 2: and Dorothy and her mother were both survivors of the

607
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 2: real Titanic. I mean, can you even imagine like living

608
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 2: through a nightmare like that and then re enacting the

609
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 2: whole thing just.

610
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: Two weeks later? I mean, I can't imagine that, nor

611
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: would I want to. But what on earth made her

612
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 1: want to do this?

613
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 2: So Dorothy afferently did not want to do the movie

614
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 2: at all, but she got talked into it by her

615
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 2: producer slash boyfriend, who is I guess this unscrupulous Hollywood

616
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 2: mogul type like his name was Jules Brullator. He had

617
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 2: put together this news reel and The Titanic that proved

618
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 2: to be this huge hit, so he figured that a

619
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 2: dramatization of the event, starting an actual survivor would make

620
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 2: a great next act, and so, with the help of

621
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 2: a thousand dollars engagement ring, he made his pitch to Dorothy,

622
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 2: and she ultimately agreed to make this one real film

623
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 2: about her experience. But as you can imagine, it was

624
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 2: not easy. For the sake of realism, she chose to

625
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 2: wear the same evening dress, coat and shoes that she'd

626
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 2: worn the night Titanic sank, and Dorothy reportedly burst into

627
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 2: tears multiple times during the shooting, and once the film

628
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 2: had wrapped, she walked away from the movie business for good.

629
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 2: She stated simply that she felt quote dissatisfied.

630
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't blame her for wanting to get

631
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: away from an industry that would push her into reliving

632
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 1: a trauma like that. But yeah, honestly though, I mean,

633
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: I have to admit I would be curious to see

634
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 1: the movie, and.

635
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 2: The truth is, you're not the only one. So Save

636
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 2: from the Titanic is actually one of the holy grails

637
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 2: for silent movie buffs. And that's because two years after

638
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 2: it was made, this massive fire broke out at the

639
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 2: studio and all the known prints were destroyed, so nobody's

640
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,239
Speaker 2: seen the movie since its original run in theaters over

641
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 2: one hundred years ago. And as much as I wish

642
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 2: the film could have been preserved for posterity, it's kind

643
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 2: of poetic that no one can make her reenact that

644
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 2: experience ever again.

645
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:46,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I guess there's a certain kind of

646
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 1: justice in that, But I mean what I find ironic

647
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 1: is that there are plenty of people today who will

648
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: go to great links and great expense to sort of

649
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: relive the experience of the Titanic. I mean, you mentioned

650
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,959
Speaker 1: earlier how people pay big money to recreate the ships

651
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 1: lavish meals, and there are also companies that offer one

652
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars submarine voyages to see the actual Titanic

653
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: wreckage in all its glory. And I actually I read

654
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,239
Speaker 1: about an American couple that even got married and a

655
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: tiny sub docked on the bow of the tiny shipwreck.

656
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 2: So I'm sure that made for some pretty amazing wedding pictures.

657
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 2: But it does seem a little disrespectful to me, right,

658
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 2: like it's effectively this mass grave.

659
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: Well, I mean You're not the only one to point

660
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 1: that out. And in fact, listen to what the company

661
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: that put on the undersea wedding said in its defense.

662
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 1: It said, what's got to be remembered is that every

663
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: time a couple gets married in church, they have to

664
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 1: walk through a graveyard to get to the altar.

665
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, plenty of people get married in churches

666
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 2: that have on site cemeteries, but in those cases the

667
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 2: graveyard isn't the selling point like it is with the Titanic.

668
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: Well, I think the Titanic tourism stuff probably comes from

669
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: that same place as those just missed it stories we

670
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 1: talked about at the top of the show, and that

671
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 1: kind of weird desire that people feel to tie themselves

672
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 1: to someone else's tragedy. But I mean, in this case,

673
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 1: I feel like it goes a little too.

674
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 2: Far, which sounds right, But I pretty much signed with

675
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 2: Robert Ballard, who is the oceanographer who first discovered the

676
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 2: Titanic wreckage back in eighty five, and he refused to

677
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 2: divulge to the ship's exact location for vera that treasure

678
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 2: hunters and corporations would swoop in to exploit it. And

679
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 2: it's an act that Ballard actually saw as tantamount to

680
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 2: grave robbing. Of course, the coordinates eventually leaked anyway, and

681
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 2: now more than one hundred and forty people have visited

682
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 2: the shipwreck off the coast of Newfoundland altogether. Though these

683
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 2: visitors have extracted some five thousand artifacts and done untold

684
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 2: damage to the ship itself in the process.

685
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 1: It's always a little unsettling to see the final resting

686
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 1: place of so many people picked apart like that. But

687
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 1: actually I read somewhere that the Titanic's under UNESCO protection now, though,

688
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: isn't it.

689
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, ever since the hundredth anniversary of the wreck, I

690
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 2: believe so.

691
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: Then it's considered like this underwater cultural heritage site or

692
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 1: something like that, and so any kind of excavation would

693
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: actually be off limits at this point.

694
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true, and legal protections, even ones that are

695
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 2: a few decades too late, are a nice deterrent to

696
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 2: these would be pirates and scavengers. But the reality is

697
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 2: that Titanic won't be around much longer no matter what

698
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 2: we do, and that's because about a decade ago, scientists

699
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,840
Speaker 2: discovered a new species of bacteria that's been slowly devouring

700
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 2: the ship's iron hull. Not only that, but as the

701
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 2: microbes munch away, they form these icicle like communities called rusticles,

702
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 2: and this happens all over the ship, inside it out,

703
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 2: and as the rusticals get heavier and heavier, they start

704
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 2: to pull the ship apart piece by piece. Meanwhile, the

705
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 2: mollusks have made short work of the wood from Titanic,

706
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 2: and of course any human remains were consumed by marine

707
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 2: life long ago, So at this point most researchers think

708
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 2: it's just another decade or two until the ship is

709
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 2: gone forever.

710
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that'll really be the end of an era.

711
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 1: But of course, with all the biographies and movies and

712
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 1: Teddy Bears and themed dinners, I mean I think we'll

713
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 1: always have plenty that remember the Titanic and its passengers

714
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:06,319
Speaker 1: by absolutely.

715
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 2: And speaking of remembrances, Robert Ballard gave a really touching

716
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 2: one shortly after he found the shipwreck, and it kind

717
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 2: of works as a eulogy for the ship and for

718
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 2: the event as a whole. So I thought it might

719
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 2: be a nice way to close out the show. Do

720
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 2: you mind if I read it and then we can

721
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 2: go straight to the fact off.

722
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, go for it.

723
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 2: Okay, so this is what Ballard said. Quote. The Titanic

724
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 2: lies now in thirteen thousand feet of water on a

725
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 2: gently sloping alpine looking countryside, overlooking a small canyon below.

726
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,720
Speaker 2: Its bow faces north. The ship sits upright on its bottom,

727
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 2: with its mighty stacks pointed upward. There is no light

728
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 2: at this great depth, and little life can be found.

729
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 2: It is a quiet and peaceful place, and a fitting

730
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 2: place for the remains of this greatest of sea tragedies

731
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 2: to rest forever. May it remain that way, and may

732
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 2: God bless these now found souls.

733
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: So one of the weirder things to read about is

734
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: all the ways people plan to try to bring the

735
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 1: Titanic back up to the surface. And some of the

736
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 1: weird ones that I just jotted down here are. One

737
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 1: was filling polyester bags with vasilene, and the idea here

738
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: is that vasolene would harden then become buoyant, and that

739
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: that would somehow lift the Titanic. Another one was filling

740
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: the whole of the ship with thousands of ping pong balls,

741
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 1: And then another one is in case the ship in ice,

742
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 1: which would basically be the equivalent of creating a big

743
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 1: ice cube. And a drink, and that we all know

744
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 1: what happens with ice cubes and a drink. They float.

745
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 1: So these were all brilliant ideas, but somehow none of

746
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: these ideas came to life.

747
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,320
Speaker 2: So back in eighteen eighty six, the writer William T.

748
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 2: Stead wrote a fictional piece about a mail steamer wrecking

749
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 2: and then most of his passengers dying because there weren't

750
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,839
Speaker 2: enough life boats. And in the story he pointed out

751
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 2: the fact that there really lacks regulations didn't require ships

752
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,280
Speaker 2: to have enough lifeboats for every person on the ship.

753
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 2: Just a few years later, Steed came back to his

754
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 2: theme and wrote about a ship crashing into ice. And

755
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 2: then we fast forward a couple decades and one of

756
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 2: the passengers who died in the Titanic tragedy was none

757
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 2: other than Steed, and he did so because there weren't

758
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 2: enough life boats on board. Wow.

759
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: Well, we talked about this before, about how anytime there's

760
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,839
Speaker 1: a disaster like this, lots of people claim that they

761
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,720
Speaker 1: were almost a part of it. But there's actually one

762
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 1: famous person that has pretty good proof of this. It

763
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: turns out that Milton Snavely Hershey, you know, the man

764
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 1: behind the legendary chocolate brand, things like Hershey's Kisses, Hersey's

765
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:42,800
Speaker 1: Chocolate Bars. Do you need me to give more examples,

766
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,280
Speaker 1: Mango or you to deal with Hershey? Yeah? Well, anyway,

767
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,399
Speaker 1: he was scheduled to be on the ship. So if

768
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,959
Speaker 1: you head to Hershey, Pennsylvania and visit the community archives there,

769
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,760
Speaker 1: you can see a three hundred dollars check that Hershey

770
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 1: had written to the White Star Line and it's believed

771
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 1: to be a deposit tour a state room. But it

772
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 1: turns out that he had more urgent business back in

773
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: the States, and so Hershey and his wife took an

774
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:10,320
Speaker 1: earliership the America, which strangely was one of the mini

775
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 1: ships that sent back warnings to the Titanic.

776
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 2: You know the iconic scene in the movie Titanic where

777
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 2: Rose is lying on the driftwood and staring up at

778
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 2: the sky. Right, So Neil deGrasse Tyson apparently saw the

779
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,320
Speaker 2: scene and decided to send a note to James Cameron

780
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 2: to point out that the star Rose was looking up

781
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 2: at wouldn't have actually been the one she would have

782
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 2: seen at that real place in time. The only issue

783
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 2: is that Tyson didn't see this movie until about a

784
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 2: decade after its initial release, but Cameron is such a

785
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,800
Speaker 2: perfectionist that he decided to reshoot the scene in preparation

786
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 2: for the release of the three D edition.

787
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 1: So more than a decade later. That's pretty wild and

788
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: also pretty impressive that we made it near the end

789
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 1: of the fact off before we really did a fact

790
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 1: about the movie. Yeah, that impress all right, Well, we

791
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 1: all know that the Titanic sunk after Kali with an iceberg,

792
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:04,320
Speaker 1: but some believe that there was a massive coal fire

793
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 1: in the bunker of the ship that actually caused significant

794
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:11,320
Speaker 1: structural weakening of the outside of the ship. Now, journalist

795
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 1: sin And Maloney has been researching this subject for decades now,

796
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,919
Speaker 1: and he points to these photographs of the Titanic right

797
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 1: before its final trip, and the photos show this huge

798
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 1: black mark on the hull of the ship, which is

799
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 1: of course where the ship would later hit the iceberg. Now,

800
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,279
Speaker 1: Maloney also believes that the owners of the Titanic were

801
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,280
Speaker 1: well aware of this damage, but not wanting to delay

802
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 1: a trip which would of course cost them a bunch

803
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: of money, they decided to just ignore it. Now, I

804
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: should note that many engineers looking at the situation have

805
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:44,280
Speaker 1: said it's difficult to tell how much that prior damage

806
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:48,360
Speaker 1: really contributed to the disaster. It may have all happened anyway,

807
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 1: but it's still pretty interesting to look at this theory.

808
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 2: I mean, it is crazy that their conspiracy theories about

809
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 2: the Titanic. It's pretty fascinating. So there's a restaurant near

810
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:01,280
Speaker 2: Halifax Harbor. It's the seafood place, is called Five Fishermen Restaurant,

811
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 2: and it's supposedly a fantastic restaurant, but it's got a

812
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 2: strange claim to fame. It was actually an old mortuary,

813
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 2: the city's oldest. In fact, it was called Snow and

814
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 2: Company undertakers, and it received the bodies of not just one,

815
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 2: but two major tragedies in the early nineteen hundreds. It

816
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 2: turns out that Halifax was the base of many of

817
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 2: the rescue operations, and many of the bodies from the

818
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 2: Titanic disaster were brought to Snow's funeral home. And then

819
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 2: five years later, when the Halifax explosion took place, it

820
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 2: was the largest human made explosion in history at the time,

821
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 2: many of the bodies were once again brought to Snow

822
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 2: and Company.

823
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 1: Wow, such a weird coincidence. And you said it's a

824
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 1: seafood place now it is.

825
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 2: And while I do like that fact, I think your

826
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 2: ping pong ball ice cube fact lifting the Titanic is

827
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,880
Speaker 2: probably the happiest one of the lots. I think you

828
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 2: deserved the prize this week.

829
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 1: Thanks so much, and hopefully one day they will try

830
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 1: all of those at one time. It was just great

831
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 1: rising of the ship. But you know, it's been interesting

832
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: to dive into this one. I know there are facts

833
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 1: out there that we certainly left out. We always love

834
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,240
Speaker 1: hearing those from you. You can email us those anytime

835
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 1: part Time Genius at HowStuffWorks dot com or hit us

836
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 1: up on Facebook or Twitter. But from Gabe, Tristan, Mango

837
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:26,760
Speaker 1: and me, Thanks so much for listening. Thanks again for listening.

838
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 1: Part Time Genius is a production of How Stuff Works

839
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 1: and wouldn't be possible without several brilliant people who do

840
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 1: the important things we couldn't even begin to understand.

841
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 2: Tristan McNeil does the editing thing.

842
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,320
Speaker 1: Noel Brown made the theme song and does the mixy

843
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 1: mixy sound thing.

844
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:41,799
Speaker 2: Jerry Roland does the exact producer thing.

845
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 1: Gabe Bluesier is our lead researcher, with support from the

846
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 1: research Army, including Austin Thompson, Nolan Brown and Lucas Adams

847
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 1: and Eves.

848
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 2: Jeffco gets the show to your ears. Good job, Eves.

849
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:52,719
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850
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851
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,120
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852
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 2: Do we forget Jason?

853
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:02,320
Speaker 1: Jason who detect