Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of
Speaker 1: I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, welcome to Stuff
Speaker 1: to Blow Your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and
Speaker 1: I'm Joe McCormick. And today we're we're looking back at
Speaker 1: ten years of this show, and so we decided we
Speaker 1: should have a special guest come on the show. So
Speaker 1: we invited Allison louder Milk. Allison, say hi to everybody. Hello,
Speaker 1: it's a pleasure to be here. Congratulations on ten years.
Speaker 1: Oh thank you. Alison, by the way, hasn't been on
Speaker 1: the podcast in a while, but she is the editor
Speaker 1: in chief of how Stuff Works dot com, which of
Speaker 1: course is the website that this show was born out of.
Speaker 1: Really that that all of the core uh stuff shows
Speaker 1: emerged from right right on. Yeah, So I guess if
Speaker 1: you're if you're new to Stuff to Blow your Mind,
Speaker 1: you probably don't know anything about this, you'd be you
Speaker 1: may not have ever heard one of the earlier episodes
Speaker 1: that has the title Stuff from the Science Lab, But
Speaker 1: that's where it all began. Um, you and I co
Speaker 1: hosted that show. It began on January four, two thousand
Speaker 1: and ten, with two episodes were published on that day.
Speaker 1: One of them titled Amazing Infestations, in the other one
Speaker 1: titled How Fighting Asteroids Work. And that was the beginning.
Speaker 1: And it's been what two episodes a week ever since.
Speaker 1: Did you go back and listen to either of these
Speaker 1: two podcasts and prepping for this episode? No, I didn't,
Speaker 1: but I thought back on them, I reflected back on
Speaker 1: the thing is one of the things I was definitely
Speaker 1: remembering about it is that, first of all, we had
Speaker 1: no idea what we were doing. For the most part,
Speaker 1: that is entirely true. I was a science writer for
Speaker 1: the website and you were my editor, and so are
Speaker 1: what was his title at the time, Our boss, Connald
Speaker 1: Burne came to us and said, you guys should do
Speaker 1: a science podcast. What do you want to call it?
Speaker 1: And I believe we said, how about stuff that could
Speaker 1: kill you? Or stuff that can kill you or something
Speaker 1: to that effect, right, Yes, yes, it was. And so
Speaker 1: because it was how stuff works, everything had to be stuff.
Speaker 1: You had to stuff in the title. That was the mandate.
Speaker 1: That was that was absolutely required. And we were like, well,
Speaker 1: let's make maybe we make it a little edgy, you know,
Speaker 1: it's about you know, explosions and supernova black holes, earthquakes.
Speaker 1: You know, we forgot we could get a lot of
Speaker 1: mileage out of that. But then that was rejected and
Speaker 1: he said, no, it's it's going to be called stuff
Speaker 1: from the Science Lab. And so that's why we launched
Speaker 1: with did you reject that? That that that goes very
Speaker 1: counter to the naming conventions of podcasts today. Today, you
Speaker 1: might propose stuff from the Science Lab and they would
Speaker 1: be like, that sounds boring. You need to do stuff
Speaker 1: that will kill you right. Well, one thing that we
Speaker 1: we came across pretty quickly is that the name it
Speaker 1: didn't really fit what we were producing because it some
Speaker 1: people thought that it meant that it was going to
Speaker 1: be very technical, that it was going to be very
Speaker 1: science and slab, and so they came in and they
Speaker 1: were disappointed by that because it wasn't uh you know,
Speaker 1: it wasn't like it didn't have that that level of
Speaker 1: depth to it. It was a much shorter show at
Speaker 1: the time too. I think we were generally taking individual
Speaker 1: articles that we've worked on together and spinning them off
Speaker 1: into like sometimes like twenty minute episodes. I think, so
Speaker 1: it was it was a much shorter show. It was
Speaker 1: a in I also remember again coming back to the
Speaker 1: fact that we were totally new to this audio recording thing.
Speaker 1: I remember we would go through and do a complete
Speaker 1: run through of the episode first and then attempt to
Speaker 1: come back and do it again, which seemed like a
Speaker 1: great idea at the time when we we we did
Speaker 1: it that way, and we quickly realized that was that
Speaker 1: was not the way to approach the show. Like it.
Speaker 1: It kind of boiled out all the organic conversation. I
Speaker 1: think I remember doing the same thing when we first
Speaker 1: started podcasting. Yeah, when I was when I very first
Speaker 1: started with UH with UM with Lauren Vogelbaum and Jonathan
Speaker 1: Strickland on forward. Thing we would do like rehearsals, horrible idea,
Speaker 1: absolutely brutal. Yeah, and then it makes you just even
Speaker 1: more sick of the content when you get around it. Uh,
Speaker 1: it removes any authentic enthusiasm you have for it. I
Speaker 1: don't know what else am I am I'm missing about
Speaker 1: the early days of the show. Well, we did throw
Speaker 1: in a couple of science jokes which are ever so humorous.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, like like straight up jokes, like almost we did.
Speaker 1: I think that was a bit that we're like, well,
Speaker 1: maybe we should have a joke in there. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: think we were also asking listeners who to submit their
Speaker 1: science based jokes. It was a bit of a clunker.
Speaker 1: Um yeah, you know, looking back, I would say Stuff
Speaker 1: from the Science Lab not the most inventive name ever. No, no,
Speaker 1: And that's that's probably one of They eventually came back
Speaker 1: and said, all right, stuff to Blow your Mind instead,
Speaker 1: which is a good title but also has continually produced.
Speaker 1: Um it has provided uh, you know, ready material for
Speaker 1: any when he wants to say, well, that episode didn't
Speaker 1: blow my mind, and so it's I have to say,
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a great title either, because it's
Speaker 1: not every topic is going to blow the mind whatever
Speaker 1: that exactly is. I like the idea of an expansion
Speaker 1: of the mind more, you know, and we might not
Speaker 1: be expanding it by much, but maybe just a little bit.
Speaker 1: And I think that's what we were trying to do
Speaker 1: with Stuff from the Science Lab as well. Agree I
Speaker 1: think that. I mean, there are a couple of things
Speaker 1: and play their podcasts were just starting to break and
Speaker 1: Kardle wanted to get in there, and I mean science
Speaker 1: was a strong suit of how staff works. He was.
Speaker 1: I mean, we were also looking at the business model,
Speaker 1: just straight up double dipping, right. I mean you'd already
Speaker 1: been immersed in this stuff like writing these articles, and
Speaker 1: I had, of course spent a long time carefully editing,
Speaker 1: so we were trying to, you know, make something else
Speaker 1: to reach folks who maybe weren't going to read it,
Speaker 1: but maybe they would listen to it. And then thirdly,
Speaker 1: I mean we were just kind of in line with
Speaker 1: the mission of the site, which is always, always, always
Speaker 1: to just be explaining the world as much as we
Speaker 1: can in an accessible and direct, incredible way. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: mission to demystify the world. Um, those sometimes you have
Speaker 1: to mystify it a little bit too, to make the
Speaker 1: things that are normal and mundane seem you know, awesome
Speaker 1: and inspiring again. But but yeah, I agree. And in
Speaker 1: terms of double dipping, I mean that was another thing too,
Speaker 1: Like this was very much a oh, by the way,
Speaker 1: once you've done all this work, um on the written
Speaker 1: version of this and the edited version of this, and
Speaker 1: it's been published, and you picked out art for it,
Speaker 1: and the arts been edited at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: go ahead and squeeze out a twenty thirty minute podcast
Speaker 1: episode about that topic. It was not the priority, uh
Speaker 1: mission for the company. Man, Quadruple dipping was like the
Speaker 1: rule of the day. When I was hired I think
Speaker 1: in summer of two thousand ten to be an editor
Speaker 1: at How Stuff Works. It was like the research that
Speaker 1: went into writing an article would not just be an article,
Speaker 1: but it would also become a quiz uh maybe an
Speaker 1: image gallery like list or you know what I mean. Oh, Joe,
Speaker 1: you were on the air, and Robert both of you.
Speaker 1: Both of you all were on the air. So I mean,
Speaker 1: why not, like, let's make a video script to yes
Speaker 1: the video era. Let's yes that. That was also a
Speaker 1: big one. Um. That has gone away for now. Well,
Speaker 1: the pivot to video will return. It's part of the
Speaker 1: ever changing cycle of media platforms. It's a well played pivot.
Speaker 1: By the way, Hey, I have a question for y'all.
Speaker 1: How do you think the show has evolved in the
Speaker 1: years it's been on the air. Oh, well, that's a
Speaker 1: good question. Um, I think the mission statement has always
Speaker 1: been the same. Um. Also, I think a big part
Speaker 1: of it is that everybody that's worked on the show
Speaker 1: has contributed to the voice of it, not not only
Speaker 1: like the individual episodes, but just sort of like the
Speaker 1: shape of the show. So you played a vital role
Speaker 1: when it was Stuff from the Science Lab, and then
Speaker 1: when they changed the name, Julie Douglas came on board.
Speaker 1: Julie Douglas was a vital, uh you know, part of
Speaker 1: the show for for many years. When Christian was a
Speaker 1: part of the show, he too. You know. Everybody brings
Speaker 1: their own sort of pyramid of interests, their own favorite topics,
Speaker 1: and I think a big part of it has always been,
Speaker 1: you know, to to say yes to to whatever your
Speaker 1: your podcast partner brings to the table, because inevitably, like
Speaker 1: even today, like Joe will be excited about a topic
Speaker 1: and I don't necessarily get it at first. Sometimes I
Speaker 1: might even think this sounds kind of dry. I don't know,
Speaker 1: but but I but I trust him on it, and
Speaker 1: I follow him down the path and and it always
Speaker 1: leads to something amazing. So I think that's been the
Speaker 1: case with with everybody though, and and and so each
Speaker 1: each person that has been involved has sort of broaden
Speaker 1: the scope of the show. And you guys also have
Speaker 1: magic between you, right, Yes, well there's the magic too.
Speaker 1: Um no, just science. We have technology. We're like Batman
Speaker 1: more so than Superman. Yes, and that brings in the
Speaker 1: various editors who've worked on the show over the years,
Speaker 1: which is a long live of audio editors, and I
Speaker 1: don't even know that I was able to include everybody
Speaker 1: as far as I know. Uh, the list of editors
Speaker 1: for Stuff from the Science Lamp Slash Stuff to Blow
Speaker 1: your Mind are Jerry Rowland, uh, Tyler Clang, Matt Frederick,
Speaker 1: Noel Brown who also composed the current theme music, Alexander Williams,
Speaker 1: Tary Harrison, Maya Cole, and then currently Seth Nicholas Johnson.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I forgot anybody. I'm terrified that
Speaker 1: we have, but yeah, definitely our producers helped bring the
Speaker 1: magic because I mean, you would not want to hear
Speaker 1: the unedited form of the show. But that's like stopping,
Speaker 1: oh wait a minute, do we already talk about this, well,
Speaker 1: that I'm just not saying words right and then to
Speaker 1: back up yeah, or or having to double check something
Speaker 1: after you've said it. I think that's that's something that
Speaker 1: a lot of people don't necessarily understand about the way
Speaker 1: we do the show or how some of the other
Speaker 1: shows are done here, is that they'll see something like
Speaker 1: the Joe Rogan experience where they they listen to the
Speaker 1: podcast and they watch a video of the podcast taking
Speaker 1: place before their eyes. And then you might easily think
Speaker 1: that we're doing that as well, and hopefully that's the
Speaker 1: illusion via the editing. But no, we're gonna have starts
Speaker 1: and stops. Uh, it's it's an edited product. It's finally edited.
Speaker 1: I will say, because I was listening to the Santa
Speaker 1: God episodes that you put out right here for the holidays,
Speaker 1: which I I'm just gonna be a fan girl, and
Speaker 1: I really liked them. I thought it was super representative
Speaker 1: of the podcast brand, and like the way you brought
Speaker 1: your lens to it, like just this very specific stuff
Speaker 1: to blow your mind, like academic curious, you know, playfully intellectual.
Speaker 1: It was just they're really good. Totally dug them, thank
Speaker 1: you um. And then of course you went back and
Speaker 1: listen to the the original episodes as well. So really
Speaker 1: you're the one who has more room too well to
Speaker 1: critique me anyway, to say to what degree I've improved
Speaker 1: or not improved over the past. Deck Robert, you're super
Speaker 1: solid and you sound exactly the same. Okay, well that's
Speaker 1: good or bad depending on how you look at it No, No,
Speaker 1: I think good. Okay. So I remember what it felt
Speaker 1: like when I first tried to get on Mike for
Speaker 1: for the first podcast I was recording, and it was terrifying, paralyzing.
Speaker 1: I had no idea what to say, I had no
Speaker 1: idea how to talk. As soon as the you know,
Speaker 1: light went on. Do you all remember feeling like that, Like,
Speaker 1: did you have the same kind of uh fear and
Speaker 1: inability to act or I don't know. Did you take
Speaker 1: to it better than I did? I remember getting the
Speaker 1: fear sweats, yeah, and it really took a long time
Speaker 1: for that to go away. Always I think I'll even
Speaker 1: occasionally get them uh where I'll feel like I'm I'm
Speaker 1: sweating like a fearful animal. Um. But not so much anymore.
Speaker 1: But back in the day, for sure, Yeah, absolutely I did.
Speaker 1: I always felt like there was more prep that could
Speaker 1: be done, that it could be tighter, you know that
Speaker 1: I did articulated concept as finally as I could have. Um. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: I was totally nervous and pretty in the dark. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean all we had to go on, I mean
Speaker 1: we had editor feedback, and certainly when we started out
Speaker 1: we were working with Jerry and so she she was
Speaker 1: the the in house expert on what a podcast was
Speaker 1: and what it should be, so we had that to
Speaker 1: go on, and then we had listener feedback, which could
Speaker 1: range from very helpful to not helpful or or you'd
Speaker 1: end up fixing. I remember fixating sometimes if someone would
Speaker 1: right in and say, oh, you're saying um too many
Speaker 1: times or or whatever the particular you know, the annoying
Speaker 1: thing is you're doing, and then you become hyper aware
Speaker 1: of it for a while, and you try and curb yourself,
Speaker 1: and then eventually you kind of give up and you realize, well,
Speaker 1: I'm just going to largely just be myself and I'm
Speaker 1: just going to try and be comfortable in that second
Speaker 1: guess everything I'm saying. But but at the same time
Speaker 1: coming back to you know, always feeling like there's something
Speaker 1: where you could have added, I think with stuff from
Speaker 1: the science Lab especially. That was the case because we
Speaker 1: were putting so much time into this written product, uh
Speaker 1: and as a writer and editor, you know, at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, we were hoping to have this
Speaker 1: the best possible version of this thing to put on
Speaker 1: the website, the best possible article, and then we were
Speaker 1: sort of trying to do the same thing with the
Speaker 1: audio version, which was a big ask, especially considering you
Speaker 1: know that it was, like you said, a triple dip
Speaker 1: piece of content, and ultimately, podcast as they've been put
Speaker 1: together at at how stuff works were put together to
Speaker 1: how stuff works, they ended up taking on a more
Speaker 1: organic feel for the most part. They weren't this tightly
Speaker 1: produced thing. Um, at the time, we're your early podcasts conversational, like,
Speaker 1: did you feel like you were having a talk with
Speaker 1: each other that in any way was genuine or was
Speaker 1: it more just kind of like an information delivery system
Speaker 1: in audio form, which is still have some people think
Speaker 1: of podcasts today. I mean, occasionally we'll get the criticism
Speaker 1: that says, like, you guys don't need to talk about
Speaker 1: these things, you know, just give us the information. Yeah,
Speaker 1: stop having a conversation and just tell us who invented
Speaker 1: the telephone. Um. I don't hear that very often, but
Speaker 1: every now and then I'm gonna say that. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: think in the beginning we were a little awkward and
Speaker 1: it was a little bit like an information delivery system
Speaker 1: because we want to make sure we got our points
Speaker 1: out there. We wanted to make sure they're accurate and
Speaker 1: you know, like Robert was saying, we wanted to make
Speaker 1: sure that it was it was a good listen, you know,
Speaker 1: a tightly produced asset. Um. So yeah, Joe, I think
Speaker 1: it sometimes aired on that side. Um. And then I
Speaker 1: think as we got more comfortable with it, we recorded
Speaker 1: maybe eighty episodes, probably because we we basically went till
Speaker 1: fall of that year, and that was when they rebranded
Speaker 1: the show. And the weird thing was I definitely remember
Speaker 1: that by the end we were I feel like that
Speaker 1: was when we'd actually really found our groove. Part of
Speaker 1: it being that we like some of the usher was off,
Speaker 1: you know, they were like, oh, we're going to rebrand
Speaker 1: the show anyway, and so we're like, okay, we can
Speaker 1: just sort of have some fun with it. Um, which
Speaker 1: in a ways, I mean kind of tragic because like
Speaker 1: we were the show. If they've given it a little longer,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like we were on the right track
Speaker 1: with it. You know. It's funny. I'm not sure that
Speaker 1: we would have gotten as long of a runway now
Speaker 1: if we were to try to launch such a show, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, we would have been killed within you know,
Speaker 1: a couple episodes. Maybe we'd have been wildly successful, or
Speaker 1: we would have been a sponsored podcast and therefore there
Speaker 1: have been like a mandated number of episodes where it
Speaker 1: would have been seasoned. I mean, there's so many there's
Speaker 1: so many different versions of what a podcast is now
Speaker 1: compared to what at least we thought of in house
Speaker 1: at the time. Like I remember the weird things when
Speaker 1: when everyone's talking about podcast I was thinking, Oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: podcasts are these music shows that I listened to, Like
Speaker 1: I was thinking to primarily DJ Mix podcast that was
Speaker 1: pretty mu the only podcast I listened to. And then
Speaker 1: also some MPR shows that were repurposed as podcasts or
Speaker 1: sometimes like just Pira did as podcast. I remember being
Speaker 1: given a CD filled with this American Life episodes and
Speaker 1: like that was that was essentially podcast, but it was
Speaker 1: like the piraated pre podcast version of that. Did you
Speaker 1: all have a sense at the beginning that you were
Speaker 1: in any way competing with that kind of thing? Were
Speaker 1: you like competing with these highly produced NPR shows that, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I have all these like resources and editing
Speaker 1: and all that, or or did you just think, oh,
Speaker 1: we're just out here doing our thing. Um, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: answer for myself. So Robert I'd love to hear what
Speaker 1: your thoughts are. Um. I think that we sort of
Speaker 1: or I sort of felt like I was operating in
Speaker 1: a vacuum. You know. It's sort of, um still interesting
Speaker 1: to me to hear my voice out there on some
Speaker 1: you know, episode or something. Uh So, no, I don't.
Speaker 1: I didn't think of myself as competition. I didn't think
Speaker 1: of us as competition. That said, I think I think
Speaker 1: it is competition, right, I mean, I'm stating obvious here.
Speaker 1: What about you, Robert, Um, I mean I still kind
Speaker 1: of to this day, I look at a show like
Speaker 1: Radio Lab and I think, Okay, Radio Lab is Star Wars,
Speaker 1: you know, and in the best, you know version of that,
Speaker 1: you know, like it is it is. Yeah, and and
Speaker 1: just also wonderful content. I love I love that show. Um.
Speaker 1: And But then our version of the podcast was not
Speaker 1: a feature motion picture. It was maybe like a TV show,
Speaker 1: you know. So it's like we were operating like that.
Speaker 1: It was a different product. Were they in the same genre?
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, it was there some crossover from from the
Speaker 1: content from time to time, certainly, But but yeah, it
Speaker 1: never really felt like like we were actually competing with them,
Speaker 1: because it was just a different product. It's like we
Speaker 1: we made socks, they made underwear, or vice versa, depending
Speaker 1: on where you stand on socks versus underwear. I guess
Speaker 1: you made socks. They made suits of armor. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: made socks. Yeah, they made um like samurai swords or something.
Speaker 1: But but still, like when you were in a good
Speaker 1: pair of socks, nothing else samurai sword will not cut
Speaker 1: it when you want to pair of good socks. Um,
Speaker 1: And people are super loyal to their brands of socks.
Speaker 1: But but another thing you you were asking about was like, how,
Speaker 1: um about organic conversation in the early episodes, Um, I
Speaker 1: think like that was something we kind of had to
Speaker 1: learn because the weird thing about the kind of conversations
Speaker 1: we had then and we have to to this day
Speaker 1: on stuff to put your mind, is that you're not
Speaker 1: really having what is an organic conversation, You're having a
Speaker 1: version of it that someone's gonna eavesdrop on. It's kind
Speaker 1: of like having a very intentional conversation at a party
Speaker 1: because you know a particular person or some stranger that
Speaker 1: you've just eyeballed is listening to you like it's a
Speaker 1: weird beast. Well, yeah, I don't know how exactly to
Speaker 1: explain what we do. I mean, it's not normal. It's
Speaker 1: not like something that people would normally find themselves doing.
Speaker 1: But it's not fake. When we have a conversation, it's
Speaker 1: not a performance, but it's also but it is a performance.
Speaker 1: It's like an organic conversation that is also a performance
Speaker 1: but also has a bullet point, you know, a bulleted
Speaker 1: list of facts that need to be uh, you know,
Speaker 1: administered to the audience, right. I mean that's something that
Speaker 1: comes up in the tension, Alison, you were mentioning earlier,
Speaker 1: like you know, you wanted in the early episodes, you
Speaker 1: were saying you wanted to put together a good product
Speaker 1: that like what was the real value of how stuff
Speaker 1: works At the time, it was like factual, well vetted
Speaker 1: sourced information, you know, stuff that you could factually rely
Speaker 1: on to whatever extent possible. And and I think that
Speaker 1: can definitely tend like when you have that as a
Speaker 1: goal in mind, that contend to make you want to
Speaker 1: produce something that is a more kind of tightly controlled
Speaker 1: product like that that tends naturally against organic conversation. Uh So,
Speaker 1: I know it's like this has always been part of
Speaker 1: the difficulty, you know, in in my experience and podcasting
Speaker 1: is balancing that, like, you know, real off the cuff,
Speaker 1: approachable kind of feeling with making sure you get everything
Speaker 1: right as best you can. Right. I think that particularly
Speaker 1: in the subject areas of science and of course history.
Speaker 1: The history host who have had to do this, you know,
Speaker 1: and very just on the mark. I mean they have
Speaker 1: to do umteen hours of research. I don't know what
Speaker 1: their research count is now, but obtain and a half.
Speaker 1: I think the day alright, time to take a quick break,
Speaker 1: but we'll be right back. Okay, folks. So we all
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Speaker 1: slash mind blown. Than All right, we're back. I'd love
Speaker 1: to hear Joe and Robert where you think the podcast
Speaker 1: will go and where you want to take it specifically.
Speaker 1: I mean, could we depend on this conversation happening in
Speaker 1: another ten years. What are your thoughts about the future. Well,
Speaker 1: I hope so, because that also means that all of
Speaker 1: us are still alive, which is a good thing that
Speaker 1: podcasts still exist. This is also a good thing civilization
Speaker 1: is still around. Will we survived the podcast wars? Great
Speaker 1: podcast wars of Yeah? Um, I don't know. That's I've
Speaker 1: always always am terrible at those where do you see
Speaker 1: yourself in like ten years, three years, two weeks kind
Speaker 1: of questions? But um, I mean there's certainly. One of
Speaker 1: the things about the show is that there's we're never
Speaker 1: going to run out of content as long as scientists
Speaker 1: are out there doing their work, as long as archaeologists
Speaker 1: are out there, you know, exploring the past, historians are
Speaker 1: taking apart the past. As long as there are their
Speaker 1: experts working in all these fields, Like, we have material
Speaker 1: to pour through and dissect and at our own spin
Speaker 1: and interpretation on. I feel like even if all research
Speaker 1: stopped today, we could keep doing this show for the
Speaker 1: rest of our natural lives. I mean. One of the
Speaker 1: things that's been shocking to me about the show, or
Speaker 1: maybe not shocking. I don't know. Maybe something that I
Speaker 1: always had a kind of unnatural faith in is the
Speaker 1: idea that almost every subject, if you look at it
Speaker 1: deep enough, becomes weird and becomes interesting stuff that might
Speaker 1: not seem that way at first glance, if you just
Speaker 1: keep going deeper in, it gets there. And then if
Speaker 1: you if you look around its sources enough, Like how
Speaker 1: many times have we found something where it's like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, this idea from the V and D's is wonderful.
Speaker 1: Or who I found all this great stuff about tridents,
Speaker 1: but it's from a book in the nineteen thirties, you know,
Speaker 1: Like to your point, like, if no additional writings were composed,
Speaker 1: we're not saying we want that, by the way, No,
Speaker 1: I mean it would be easier to catch up, obviously,
Speaker 1: but but but no, if it's if everything stopped, there's
Speaker 1: still so many wonderful nuggets buried in, uh, in the material,
Speaker 1: and so much of it that has only become really
Speaker 1: readily available. Uh, you know since the show began, I mean,
Speaker 1: the the online resources have really changed the way we
Speaker 1: do our job. I would say that is absolutely true.
Speaker 1: One thing that has changed big time since I started
Speaker 1: doing podcasts is through various means. It is much easier
Speaker 1: to get your hands on primary research now than it
Speaker 1: was like ten years ago. That so huge, I mean,
Speaker 1: sourcing is so huge, and I really really enjoy how
Speaker 1: you guys do that in every single episode with the
Speaker 1: Steady than just a quick reference, but it's there. Did
Speaker 1: you show notes as well? We know, we just didn't.
Speaker 1: We We we used to sort of do them and
Speaker 1: then they got kind of dinner depending on how much
Speaker 1: time we had our owners, that's the case. And now
Speaker 1: we don't really have a website anymore, so we don't
Speaker 1: really have a place to put them. So that wasn't
Speaker 1: really our call, but they kind of solved the question
Speaker 1: for us, Like it's not even an option right now.
Speaker 1: But I mean we we do try whenever possible. I mean,
Speaker 1: depending on the subject, you can't always like do full
Speaker 1: references on everything, but we do try pretty often to
Speaker 1: like give the kinds of citations that if you wanted
Speaker 1: to sit down and write it down, you could look
Speaker 1: it up and find it. Yeah. The problem being is
Speaker 1: that a lot of times we're dealing with names that
Speaker 1: either either we're butchering the pronunciation has the individual's name,
Speaker 1: or well it's just a hard thing to look up. Famously,
Speaker 1: we are bad at pronouncing names. But maybe that's a
Speaker 1: case with all podcasters, because I hear other podcast hosts
Speaker 1: say that they get dinged about pronouncing names wrong. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: certainly if you are ever listening to the show, uh,
Speaker 1: at least a recent show or even an older show,
Speaker 1: and there is a source you're curious about you want
Speaker 1: to check out for yourself, and you you you aren't
Speaker 1: able to find it, well, you know, drop us a line,
Speaker 1: email us and we'll see if we can't send you
Speaker 1: a better link or at least you know the the
Speaker 1: official author and title so that you can look it
Speaker 1: up on your own time. We get those sources, and
Speaker 1: we get these types of questions a lot on the website,
Speaker 1: to which I find encouraging, and I will usually, you know,
Speaker 1: see what I can dig up. Or are somebody's referencing
Speaker 1: a source like, oh, I think this might be the
Speaker 1: right way to go to research my wife's medical treatment,
Speaker 1: And I'm thinking, hey, why don't you try to say
Speaker 1: Cochrane dot org instead for this, you know, comprehensive review
Speaker 1: of breast cancer research. Um, but I do. I have
Speaker 1: noticed that more people are sort of coming and asking
Speaker 1: like where did this come from? Can I get the
Speaker 1: primary resource? Uh, you know where this originated? And I
Speaker 1: really like that. Yeah. I think that the Internet might
Speaker 1: be in some ways now a little bit better and
Speaker 1: in some ways a little bit worse in terms of
Speaker 1: source uh source consciousness. I think people are more skeptical
Speaker 1: of web pages and just like what somebody says on
Speaker 1: the Internet than they used to be. Um. The downside
Speaker 1: to that, I think is that also sometimes comes with
Speaker 1: a kind of um unquenchable like conspiracy denialism that just
Speaker 1: like you know, where you can't really accept anything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that can be a little bit scabilitating. Did you get
Speaker 1: that too? We do, we do, of course. I mean yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean people are very quick to call fake news
Speaker 1: on you. Yeah, for sure. You know, at this point
Speaker 1: I think we should we should probably just talk about
Speaker 1: like the current state of the stuff shows and how
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com because not everybody is familiar with this.
Speaker 1: Not everybody is going to like have how stuff works
Speaker 1: in their their their news browser, you know, so that
Speaker 1: they get updates about it. So basically one of the
Speaker 1: things that occurred over the past what several years now
Speaker 1: was the again, all these stuff show those stuff to
Speaker 1: about your mind slash stuff in the science lab, stuff
Speaker 1: you should know, stuff you missed in history class, stuff
Speaker 1: they don't want you to know, etcetera. They all started
Speaker 1: as part of how Stuff Works dot com, but then uh,
Speaker 1: these two properties were then split into two separate divisions,
Speaker 1: the podcast division and the website division, and then the
Speaker 1: podcast division was purchased uh apart from the website, and
Speaker 1: so currently this show and the other stuff podcasts are
Speaker 1: part of the I Heart Media I Heart Podcast division,
Speaker 1: but they're still sort of considered how Stuff Works podcasts,
Speaker 1: which can be confusing to people. Right, I totally totally
Speaker 1: get that. I've looked at our wiki, you know, our
Speaker 1: Wikipedia page multiple times and that says, you know, I
Speaker 1: have to give some props to the hard working editors
Speaker 1: of Wikipedia. They've got it right there, and I think
Speaker 1: they actually got a lot of things right these days. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just said that. Oh no, this is a funny
Speaker 1: thing I think I've talked about on the show before.
Speaker 1: I would never use Wikipedia as a final source of information.
Speaker 1: Great jumping off point, but I think Wikipedia is a
Speaker 1: is about as reliable as lots of editorially controlled sites.
Speaker 1: If not better. Uh, and I'm not including you there, Alison,
Speaker 1: but like I mean, like you, you will go to
Speaker 1: sites that would appear to have editorial control that I
Speaker 1: think are more likely to have errors and and you know,
Speaker 1: incorrect citations and stuff than your average Wikipedia article. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just wanted to give Wikipedia props. I feel like
Speaker 1: there are a lot of people who are working pretty
Speaker 1: hard on it to produce an improved product, for sure. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I only that was a tangent there of Wikipedia tangent
Speaker 1: if you will, um, but they do get it right currently,
Speaker 1: and so System one being the website. So System one
Speaker 1: is a website's parent. They're out of Venice Beach, California,
Speaker 1: and they do user acquisition, whereas you all are owned.
Speaker 1: The podcasts are owned by iHeart. As you were just saying,
Speaker 1: But we're all still friendly, and we all still work
Speaker 1: in the same building. Yes, so we're all still in
Speaker 1: the same building. So so all friendly, But got callers
Speaker 1: on that prevent us from talking to each other. If
Speaker 1: we do, the buzzer goes off. But no, but but
Speaker 1: but certainly inviting you on the show involved asking you
Speaker 1: to come down from the eighth floor. Yeah, it was
Speaker 1: a heck of an elevator right coming down that fourth floors.
Speaker 1: But also a lot of the folks on staff at
Speaker 1: I Heeart no big surprise are wildly talented and our
Speaker 1: writers and I don't know, we just find occasions to
Speaker 1: still interact and be a curious crew together. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: so talk a little bit about what's going on with
Speaker 1: with with how stuffworks dot com and uh and what
Speaker 1: what your your role is as editor in chief. I
Speaker 1: have a good job, y'all, I really do. I feel
Speaker 1: very fortunate. Um. I have a small team. We have
Speaker 1: a small team and editorial team based here in Atlanta. Uh,
Speaker 1: and we are well, first of all, we're searched driven, right,
Speaker 1: So to step back a little bit, how stuff works
Speaker 1: comes up a lot when you search, right, like whatever
Speaker 1: you're searching, whether it's for particle accelerators or on um,
Speaker 1: Savannah Cat. We've been doing a lot of cat contently,
Speaker 1: like good figure Savannah Cat, Savannah Cat. Oh man, they're crazy, Okay, UM, yeah,
Speaker 1: I recommend that one. There's some really interesting cats. You
Speaker 1: like cats too? Um Yeah, I'm I'm coming on the
Speaker 1: fence with well, I mean, I one of the things
Speaker 1: about Robert that we all kind of know is he's
Speaker 1: not like a huge fan of dogs, but like the cats.
Speaker 1: That's true, It's true. Yeah, that was the thing. Like
Speaker 1: you were a dog person, I was a cat person.
Speaker 1: And it's the same dynamic today. Yeah. Yeah, my cat
Speaker 1: keeps exploding these days, so I'm a little uh, I'm
Speaker 1: beginning to question my, uh my, my funness for cats
Speaker 1: versus dogs. I'm sorry. Do you know that in one
Speaker 1: of our first early episodes of stuff from the Science Lab,
Speaker 1: I believe it was on Komodo Dragons, Crazy Komodo Dragons,
Speaker 1: there's a sequence in in which you imitate your cat wretching. Oh, well,
Speaker 1: that's wonderful. I should go listen to that. That goes
Speaker 1: in the sound bank for the people who make music
Speaker 1: out of our mouth noises. The I do remember the
Speaker 1: Komodo dragon episode having a lot of like really gross
Speaker 1: stuff in it, Like there was stuff about Komodo dragons
Speaker 1: like slinging intestines around to like remove the fecal matter
Speaker 1: from them so they could eat the intestines, and babies
Speaker 1: hiding from the parents so they wouldn't be consumed as well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we were, we were doing that episode in tandem
Speaker 1: with a Discovery Show because we were at that point
Speaker 1: owned by Discovery and it was I think it was
Speaker 1: Life in which there is a good feature about Komodo dragons,
Speaker 1: so we're kind of looking into them at that point
Speaker 1: and learning all sorts of crazy x. The Komodo Dragon
Speaker 1: well has not run dry. I think it was just
Speaker 1: last year that Robert and I did an episode about
Speaker 1: parthen of Genesis in the Animal Kingdom and we talked
Speaker 1: about Komodo dragons, Virgin Birth and the Komodo dragon world.
Speaker 1: And they're still one of my favorite things to see
Speaker 1: at at a zoo. Whenever I visit a zoo, I
Speaker 1: will definitely check out the Komodo dragons. Even though they're
Speaker 1: probably not going to be moving much, they're probably gonna
Speaker 1: be pretty stationary, they're still pretty awe inspiring. Yeah, they're oh,
Speaker 1: which reminds me. You're asking what we're up to at
Speaker 1: houss dot com. I'm gonna put in a quick plug
Speaker 1: with somebody who has been on your show before. We
Speaker 1: are going to be doing an event at the Atlanta
Speaker 1: Science Festival, So if anybody who's listening is based in
Speaker 1: the Atlanta area, he's come on out. We're gonna do
Speaker 1: how snakes work, and that's with Mark Foundation. I'm really
Speaker 1: excited about it. It's going to be in March. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The Atlanta Science Festival is is pretty great because it's
Speaker 1: it's pretty varied. I find each year there there's so
Speaker 1: many different types of things to go to. A lot
Speaker 1: of it very very family friendly. Um I think I've
Speaker 1: been to. Um, let's see some of the things I've
Speaker 1: been to include like amphibian walks, like where you're going
Speaker 1: out into the into a park to look under rocks
Speaker 1: and find amphibians with Mark and his crew. But also salamanders,
Speaker 1: right yeah, yeah, yes, salamanders. Yeah. Uh so that was
Speaker 1: a lot of fun. But then there's also stuff with
Speaker 1: like robot competitions put on by different schools in the area,
Speaker 1: a ton of great content. They really blow me away
Speaker 1: with with their offerings every year because it's like almost
Speaker 1: a full month of of material, right, Yes, yes it is.
Speaker 1: There's some hard working folks behind it. I really appreciate
Speaker 1: what they've done for just kind of greater science knowledge
Speaker 1: in the area, along with yourselves of course. But getting
Speaker 1: back to it, yeah, so I mean it has to
Speaker 1: works to say we really are still we haven't changed
Speaker 1: that much in the twenty plus years we've been on
Speaker 1: and that is our mission is pretty much still the same.
Speaker 1: We want to satisfy your curiosity. We want to answer
Speaker 1: your questions about the world, whatever it is, whether it's
Speaker 1: about Bob sledding or impeachment or particle accelerators, or what
Speaker 1: the differences between you know, a road and avenue and
Speaker 1: a boulevard. Do you guys know? I didn't know, but
Speaker 1: we just do not know. Can you spoil it for us?
Speaker 1: You're gonna have to go look at it. We also,
Speaker 1: I mean we also, I mean, so we write on
Speaker 1: the big and we write on the small. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's just the nature of the site. I mean, we
Speaker 1: just put out an article on you know, our pringles
Speaker 1: really potato chips. They're not right. Well wait, they're made
Speaker 1: of potatoes, aren't they. But they're not. There's some there's
Speaker 1: some court action involved in this, fright, and to ask,
Speaker 1: huh yeah, uh so we I'm guessing the other quick
Speaker 1: do the math for me. That's moon dust is the
Speaker 1: rest of it. I was gonna say, salt, it's like
Speaker 1: throat shredding regularly makes your pringles. I can, but if
Speaker 1: there were pringles. Now, I would probably eat several of
Speaker 1: them there, man, I would eat like a whole can
Speaker 1: a whole sleeve. Is it a is a sleeve of pringles?
Speaker 1: Do we know the correct terminology there? It may be
Speaker 1: a sleep tube. Yeah. They do come into the tube,
Speaker 1: but you want to like dump them out into your
Speaker 1: palm so you don't have to reach your hand and
Speaker 1: get it. Like the Pringles arm band. I feel like
Speaker 1: one of the real appeals of pringles is that when
Speaker 1: you're done with the with the tube, you can stick
Speaker 1: your arm in the tube and have tub bands. They
Speaker 1: had pringles here at the office a while back, and um,
Speaker 1: I happen to be a day when I was in
Speaker 1: here with my son and he's like, all Pringles, that
Speaker 1: can I have some Pringles? Not sure? You can grab
Speaker 1: a canister of pringles. Got the canister and we got
Speaker 1: into the car and we're leaving the office and he
Speaker 1: opened it up and it was one pringle somebody for
Speaker 1: their tears. Um no, it's just confusion. And I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: I'll buy some Pringles. So yeah, we were going to
Speaker 1: a store anyway. So anyway, yeah, so I mean city
Speaker 1: for prinkles. So oh, I mean we're also interested, I
Speaker 1: mean in two thousand twenty, just like you all just
Speaker 1: in being like they need to be as transparent as possible.
Speaker 1: You know, that means sourcing, That means attribution. That means
Speaker 1: you should know when the article is published. That means
Speaker 1: if something, if a lot of people are looking at something,
Speaker 1: we need to have eyes on it and make sure
Speaker 1: that that are that information is up to date. Uh.
Speaker 1: A key example there would be our US draft, how
Speaker 1: the US Draft works articles trending because government website went
Speaker 1: down and here comes ours like on the rise. What
Speaker 1: do you know? Our information is good, it's factual, The
Speaker 1: draft processes not changed. It trends like mad and we
Speaker 1: need to make sure, like when I see people are
Speaker 1: looking at that, it is my responsibility as editor in
Speaker 1: chief of How Stuff Works to get you the best
Speaker 1: information you can have. So I mean that is we're
Speaker 1: laser laser focused on that in two thousand twenty because
Speaker 1: it is so important to think about your sources and
Speaker 1: credibility is very important. And we are a small publisher
Speaker 1: competing with a lot of other folks out there, so
Speaker 1: come see us. Yeah, that's great, Yeah, deep respect And
Speaker 1: just I want to say sometimes I wish we had
Speaker 1: an editor on the podcast and had more didn't like,
Speaker 1: had more eyes and more process. We have a wonderful
Speaker 1: audio editor, but you know what I mean, like a
Speaker 1: like a content editor. In some ways I miss that
Speaker 1: approach because it gives you more confidence going out, you know,
Speaker 1: and like and we work really hard to make sure
Speaker 1: that we're on top of everything. But it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's just Robert and me, you know, in our research,
Speaker 1: and we're just like blazing through everything at the pace
Speaker 1: we do and and and trying to get it all right.
Speaker 1: I mean, and I hope we usually do a good
Speaker 1: job on that, but man, it would be great to
Speaker 1: have an editor to like have another layer to go
Speaker 1: through on everything. Yeah, I mean, this was what I
Speaker 1: was enjoyed about working with you, And still when I
Speaker 1: when I occasionally freelance an article for how Stuff Works,
Speaker 1: if I get to work with you on that particular
Speaker 1: article or or any of the editors there, it's like
Speaker 1: somebody to uh tell me when I'm doing something wrong, uh,
Speaker 1: in to to correct sort of the nagging mistakes that
Speaker 1: I will keep make and if left in my own devices,
Speaker 1: will never fix. Uh. It's I mean that's that's one
Speaker 1: of the essential roles of of of having an editor.
Speaker 1: Like an editor makes you better at the thing you do.
Speaker 1: For the record listeners, Robert and Joe are both very
Speaker 1: good writers, and if you haven't read any of their stuff,
Speaker 1: you should. Yeah, I was fortunate enough back in the
Speaker 1: day to get to write some of the some of these,
Speaker 1: uh you know, a big multi page articles about a
Speaker 1: given topic on how stuff works and uh and it's
Speaker 1: there the sort of article that you hear people referring
Speaker 1: back to later on, you know, being something where you
Speaker 1: know someone wanted to know about, say steam technology or
Speaker 1: nuclear power plants, and and being able to like go
Speaker 1: there as a you know, an initial source as a
Speaker 1: way of a sort of figuring out how this technology works.
Speaker 1: It's being discussed in the news, you know, and um
Speaker 1: and and and I love that how stuff works is
Speaker 1: is still a part of that conversation. Is still uh
Speaker 1: still out there creating content like that and updating the
Speaker 1: old content as our understanding changes. It's trum endlessly valuable,
Speaker 1: in depth, comprehensive, deeply sourced. Those kind of articles are amazing.
Speaker 1: So look out for us in two thousands twenty, we're
Speaker 1: gonna be writing lots of new ones, and we're also
Speaker 1: going to be um taking kind of a pruning project
Speaker 1: on because we, along with lots of other sites, have
Speaker 1: inherited content that maybe isn't as good of a fit. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, we are going to take stuffs. As painful
Speaker 1: as it is for me as an editor to take
Speaker 1: things off of a website, we'll probably be doing some
Speaker 1: of that too. Um, but we are here, We're around,
Speaker 1: and we need you readers. Go to how staff works
Speaker 1: dot com. Make it find out what an avenue is,
Speaker 1: learn about these Savannah cats, Um, learn about the draft
Speaker 1: you know the truth. I looked it up while y'all
Speaker 1: were talking. So it turns out roads don't actually exist.
Speaker 1: Uh uh, streets are only in Russia and everything else
Speaker 1: is a boulevard. I don't think that's true. That's misinformation.
Speaker 1: Show Alright, time to take a quick break, but we'll
Speaker 1: be right back. Thank right, we're back. So what stories
Speaker 1: are you looking forward to covering next year? Looking forward
Speaker 1: to covering? I don't know. I haven't thought or prepared
Speaker 1: about this well. I mean, on one hand, like to
Speaker 1: two topics we covered very recently, there were kind of updates. First,
Speaker 1: of all, hopefully we'll get to see some more interstellar
Speaker 1: visitors to our solar system. It seems like there's a
Speaker 1: very good chance that will happen, since the hubbub about
Speaker 1: a mum right sort of was partially quashed by us
Speaker 1: finding another one much sooner than people expected to write.
Speaker 1: So I'm very curious to see if we we see
Speaker 1: more of that. In Likewise, there's the whole issue of
Speaker 1: the Solowessi hunting scene that was discovered. Uh that that
Speaker 1: seems to date back at least forty hundred years, which
Speaker 1: is twenty thousand years older than some of the oldest
Speaker 1: hunted the oldest hunting scene that we've seen previously, and
Speaker 1: four thousand years before the Loan minch, which was this
Speaker 1: the what was previously thought to be the oldest depiction
Speaker 1: of a human animal hybrid um. So, you know, if
Speaker 1: if the research holds true on that, and it looks
Speaker 1: like it probably will, like that changes the way we
Speaker 1: understand the the evolution of human thought, you know. And
Speaker 1: uh So, on one hand, it's gonna be cool to
Speaker 1: see more research into that particular find, but it also
Speaker 1: highlights just how much more there is to potentially discovery
Speaker 1: you know what new findings will will emerge that will
Speaker 1: force us to rethink, you know, what we are and
Speaker 1: how the how the world works. I'm excited about upcoming
Speaker 1: black hole stuff. So of course nine was a great
Speaker 1: year for black holes. I think it was in April
Speaker 1: that the first image ever of a direct image of
Speaker 1: a black hole, to whatever extent you can have a
Speaker 1: direct image of a black hole was released. It was
Speaker 1: the MD seven galaxy, which is like fifty five million
Speaker 1: light years away from US uh. And that was done
Speaker 1: by the event Horizon Telescope, which is a you know,
Speaker 1: telescope array of different radio telescopes on different continents around
Speaker 1: the world. They pooled the resources, synchronized combined data and
Speaker 1: produced this amazing image which I'm not so it wasn't
Speaker 1: made out of visible light. It was made out of
Speaker 1: radio signal, so I assume they had to make some
Speaker 1: decisions about how the data would be represented as a
Speaker 1: color scheme when the image was released, and their choice
Speaker 1: of that gold to orange spectrum has a very haunting
Speaker 1: primordial quality that I really like against the you know,
Speaker 1: the black background. It's kind of out of more door
Speaker 1: and I think big thumbs up to that. Um it's
Speaker 1: it's one great example of why the aesthetics of science
Speaker 1: matter a lot too. Also, just a sheer level of collaboration.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm so encouraged by like the dozens and
Speaker 1: dozens of scientists that are working on these like huge
Speaker 1: you know, like Lego or something like that, Like just
Speaker 1: people working together towards you know, science. It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the the collaboration is as phenomenal because again, this is like,
Speaker 1: this is not something that one telescope was able to do.
Speaker 1: This was a collaboration across at least three or I
Speaker 1: think four different continents at least both the America's and
Speaker 1: Europe and Antarctica. There might have been one in Africa.
Speaker 1: Like they're all over the place that had to collaborate
Speaker 1: to put together this picture that we got. Um And yeah,
Speaker 1: and so of course we love black holes on the show.
Speaker 1: We we've come back to the topic several times in
Speaker 1: some multipart episodes. There was one thing I was just
Speaker 1: reading earlier today that makes me think that there's probably
Speaker 1: more black hole news on coming next year, which was
Speaker 1: I think there's some new research about how solving problems
Speaker 1: about how supermassive black holes are formed, because there's this
Speaker 1: mystery where, you know, we can see supermassive black holes
Speaker 1: way out there that are so far away that we
Speaker 1: know that they must have been formed very early in
Speaker 1: the universe. So where did all the super mass come from?
Speaker 1: They had to be gobbling up matter, we would presume
Speaker 1: for like billions of years to get to get as
Speaker 1: massive as they are, but obviously they haven't been doing
Speaker 1: that because there you know that they were formed very
Speaker 1: early in the universe. So what's going on with that?
Speaker 1: I think there's a new answer to that, but I
Speaker 1: can't recall what the answer is, so maybe we'll revisit
Speaker 1: that in an upcoming episode. Yeah, I'm for scherre looking
Speaker 1: to a lot more exo planet discoveries. Yeah, this past
Speaker 1: decade was kind of like the exo planet decade, wasn't it?
Speaker 1: Like from beginning to end there is an amazing arc
Speaker 1: of exoplanet research to where uh, and and and don't
Speaker 1: take this too seriously, but to the point where exo
Speaker 1: planets have almost become mundane news. Yeah, it does feel
Speaker 1: like that a little bit. I agree. Now, now here's
Speaker 1: something that comes to mind too and talking about it
Speaker 1: anticipating topics they're going to be discussed scientific topics, and
Speaker 1: otherwise it will be discussed. Is that. Of course, it's
Speaker 1: not just the scientific discoveries that that command what sort
Speaker 1: of science articles you're gonna see online. Sometimes it does
Speaker 1: come from what's popular with motion pictures. For instance, a
Speaker 1: Man came out. I guess we've had two of them now,
Speaker 1: always saw the first one. But when when aunt Man
Speaker 1: came out, like suddenly, people were like, yeah, tell me
Speaker 1: more about how physics work at a smaller scale, tell
Speaker 1: me more about quantum physics, and you know whatever, whatever,
Speaker 1: you know, any kind of like science that is dealt with,
Speaker 1: even just you know slightly in a movie like that,
Speaker 1: does Paul Red squirt formic acid? Did they get into
Speaker 1: that at all? Maybe that's in the sequel. But but
Speaker 1: but seriously, though, like that's that's one thing to think about.
Speaker 1: For instance, in we're gonna get the first half of
Speaker 1: the new adaptation of Frank Herbert's Dune, so we're probably
Speaker 1: gonna see a lot of science articles coming out about, um,
Speaker 1: you know, how a still suit could potentially work but
Speaker 1: based uh, you know on modern meta materials. Things like that.
Speaker 1: I always look forward to. We were there first we
Speaker 1: did Science of Doune episodes years ago when it wasn't cool,
Speaker 1: when we just sounded like total nerds for doing it. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm sure we'll talk about done at some point this
Speaker 1: year as well. But yeah, I'm I'm not even sure offhand,
Speaker 1: like what ore they're like science fiction films are coming
Speaker 1: out that they are going to be prime candidates for
Speaker 1: that sort of thing, or what Marvel films will be
Speaker 1: coming out that uh will force us to um reconsider
Speaker 1: scientific topics. You got to pull the weight on that
Speaker 1: one because I don't see these Marvel movies. I am
Speaker 1: not hip with it. I don't know what's happening. I'm
Speaker 1: not as good about keeping up with them as as
Speaker 1: I was. But i mean, really, how do you ignore
Speaker 1: them when they come out? They're they're huge, They're kind
Speaker 1: of you're gonna watch them on an airplane at some point.
Speaker 1: I saw a Black Panther and it was good. And
Speaker 1: I watched like The X Men with Sansa in it,
Speaker 1: and then that was not good. That's about it. Well,
Speaker 1: that wasn't an m c U film. That was that
Speaker 1: was difficult. I'm looking forward to Black Widow. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right. I forgot that it's gonna be like a
Speaker 1: spy action thing, right, I believe. So, Yeah, well, maybe
Speaker 1: there'll be some cool gadgets in there that will be
Speaker 1: worth exploring. It would be very good. I mean, really,
Speaker 1: it would be essential to do something on climate change
Speaker 1: on stuff table your mind in the near future. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think especially because many of these uh you know
Speaker 1: pretty confidently climate change linked linked weather patterns and disasters
Speaker 1: have been becoming increasingly hard to ignore in the past
Speaker 1: few years. And when we think about the wildfire problems
Speaker 1: this year and uh, uh god, I mean the Amazon Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a downer, isn't it. But I mean something you
Speaker 1: got to talk about it. We'll be covering. I mean,
Speaker 1: we all have an obligation to uh to run those stories,
Speaker 1: right Yeah, and then how stuff works. Dot Com already
Speaker 1: has some fabulous resources on that count. I mean your
Speaker 1: article on climate change. We've been doing all this year.
Speaker 1: We did, we participated in covering climate Now we're hundreds
Speaker 1: of media outlets just strove to generally bring climate change
Speaker 1: and climate change stories um to the public and publish them.
Speaker 1: It's cool. I feel like this is something that you know,
Speaker 1: I guess we all work as science communicators. So there,
Speaker 1: this is something that's worth pooling our our our intellectual
Speaker 1: resources about. Um, how do you how do you get
Speaker 1: attention for stories that are not inherently fun like the
Speaker 1: climate change is that It's like, if there is a
Speaker 1: single subject in science that people need to be aware
Speaker 1: of and you need to have stories brought to their
Speaker 1: attention about, right now, it's probably climate change. But like
Speaker 1: the climate change stories are not very enjoyable usually to
Speaker 1: read about or to listen to. They can be kind
Speaker 1: of depressing or you know, it's so like what, Um,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I didn't mean to just trail off there,
Speaker 1: but like, yeah, what what kind of resources can we
Speaker 1: bring from our storytelling capabilities to get people on the
Speaker 1: hook for these stories the same way they would be
Speaker 1: for things that are naturally more fun, that are easier
Speaker 1: to understand, that are easier to get excited about and
Speaker 1: have a reading or listening appetite for. They're not all
Speaker 1: going to be rosy stories. But I think that we
Speaker 1: are having some success with like the collective human consciousness
Speaker 1: being applied to this mega problem. UM, And I think
Speaker 1: it's important to note those successes. People are making changes,
Speaker 1: like there are a lot more electric cars on the road. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, we have gotten a lot more creative about
Speaker 1: our usage of energy and we're thinking a lot more
Speaker 1: about it. So I think, Joe, that you do have
Speaker 1: to kind of be positive and I think you have
Speaker 1: to break it down. People don't like being powerless, and
Speaker 1: so you have to make sure it's accessible and doable. Okay,
Speaker 1: we know we don't necessarily live in Australia. We can't
Speaker 1: control these fires, but are there other things that we
Speaker 1: can be mindful about? Is there a talking point I
Speaker 1: can have with my child when you know we're talking about,
Speaker 1: you know, being out in nature or something like that.
Speaker 1: Like there you have to relate it on a local level,
Speaker 1: and I think you have to incorporate some positive points.
Speaker 1: YEA like one, like a couple of positive spins that
Speaker 1: I've come across. So, first of all, we ended up
Speaker 1: talking about the ozone layer in one of our episodes.
Speaker 1: It was an episode on Highlander two, but we still
Speaker 1: talked about the ozone layer in the science of the
Speaker 1: ozone layer and the story of of scientists saying hey,
Speaker 1: we need to do something about this, this growing problem,
Speaker 1: and then everyone being able to work together for the
Speaker 1: most part to then address that problem, uh, and and
Speaker 1: get us on the right track with that issue. Like
Speaker 1: that's an inspiring story to me because it shows that, yes,
Speaker 1: there are cases where we can do that, where we
Speaker 1: can get the enough collective will to actually address the
Speaker 1: problem and work towards the solution. And and we can
Speaker 1: take that to the climate change situation. Another another aspect
Speaker 1: to that, and this is not my thought, I've I've
Speaker 1: seen this echoed elsewhere, is that when you look at
Speaker 1: the ravages of climate change, they are things that that
Speaker 1: human civilization has has done. And that is on one level,
Speaker 1: that is that is the depressing part of it. But
Speaker 1: on the other part, that's that shows you, like the
Speaker 1: power that human civilization has and if we can if
Speaker 1: we can do that much harm without meaning to, then
Speaker 1: what happens when we we actually turn our collective attention
Speaker 1: to solving the problem, Like it's it's solvable, we can
Speaker 1: do it because we did the damage, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But I mean, I again not to to be a downer,
Speaker 1: but it's also a double edged sword because another danger
Speaker 1: I think with talking about climate changes, if you're you're
Speaker 1: trying to emphasize positive ways of framing the issue, what
Speaker 1: could be done. You also run the risk, I think
Speaker 1: of encouraging a kind of passive optimism where people will
Speaker 1: just be like, oh, yeah, it'll solve this, And you
Speaker 1: can't think like that. You know, this is not the
Speaker 1: kind of problem that will just solve itself. You make
Speaker 1: a good point, Joe. I also I am curious to
Speaker 1: see where human creative e Gooes. I think we are
Speaker 1: like wildly creative, and I'm just so curious to see
Speaker 1: how humans approached this problem on a continuing basis as
Speaker 1: we're going to have to do. Yeah, are you saying
Speaker 1: we need artificial intelligence to tell us what? Are you
Speaker 1: one of those people who wants to build an AI
Speaker 1: god and worship it? I mean, I will tell I'm
Speaker 1: I'm not opposed to that. I hear these have some
Speaker 1: great ideas, you know, they can really idate. I think
Speaker 1: Allison's kidding, I am. I So, I just wanted to
Speaker 1: say thanks for having me on today, you guys. I
Speaker 1: really have a lot of respect for both of you
Speaker 1: as science communicators. As you were pointing out earlier, that's
Speaker 1: what we all are show. Thanks. Um. And I think
Speaker 1: that you know, people like to consume content in different
Speaker 1: ways and that you both are fulfilling a really vital
Speaker 1: role in uh, you know, being stuff to blow your mind. Host.
Speaker 1: I know it's not easy. I know that the grind
Speaker 1: of getting episodes out every single week and you know,
Speaker 1: striving to come up with new episodes and new topics
Speaker 1: and things like that, it's it's hard. And I really
Speaker 1: respect what you all are trying to do and the
Speaker 1: unique way that you do it. Well, thank you so much,
Speaker 1: Elison that that is too nice of you to say, yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you. Um. I mean a lot of it ultimately
Speaker 1: does come down to like the listeners and the listeners curiosity,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean we we we didn't create their curiosity.
Speaker 1: All we can hope to do is um is sort
Speaker 1: of is feed it to the extent that we can.
Speaker 1: Uh and uh. And so really a lot of it
Speaker 1: does come back to the listener. Not to suck up
Speaker 1: to the listeners though they're great, but like it's even know,
Speaker 1: really it's their their willingness and their desire to listen
Speaker 1: to us ramble about these topics and share these uh
Speaker 1: you know, various curios and explanations with them. Um. And
Speaker 1: ultimately I think that's that's what inspires me at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, is that we have this audience
Speaker 1: that is that is hungry for more, that wants to
Speaker 1: have their mind expanded, They want to understand the world
Speaker 1: a little better, to understand themselves a little better, and
Speaker 1: to you know, continue on this path of consistent improvement
Speaker 1: and consistent betterment and uh, you know, and and endless learning.
Speaker 1: That is that is life, you know. And at this point,
Speaker 1: after ten years, you know, we we heard just recently
Speaker 1: from a listener talking about how they started listening to
Speaker 1: the show ten years ago when they were kids, you know,
Speaker 1: and now they're what they're in a master's program working
Speaker 1: on an engineering degree. Engineering degree, yes, uh so, you know,
Speaker 1: stuff like that is just it just brings it brings
Speaker 1: tears to your eyes to hear it that that that
Speaker 1: is probably the single greatest non monetary compensation for for
Speaker 1: doing this job is hearing from from kids who were encouraged,
Speaker 1: you know, to to think about the world more deeply,
Speaker 1: or to go into a scientific or technical subject or
Speaker 1: whatever because of something they heard on the show, or
Speaker 1: because of an attitude they heard modeled on the show,
Speaker 1: which I think it our best. That's what I hope
Speaker 1: we can do I don't know if we're the best
Speaker 1: science communicators in the world in in the term in
Speaker 1: like the sense of like being technical experts on things.
Speaker 1: But what I do hope we can model is h
Speaker 1: is genuine enthusiasm and an approachable attitude and uh and
Speaker 1: a skeptical mindset. Yeah, and and just you know, share
Speaker 1: our curiosity with your curiosity and hopefully we can all
Speaker 1: go on this journey together. Well, thanks for having me
Speaker 1: on this journey. Thanks for yeah, thanks for dropping in
Speaker 1: and chatting with us about the the early days of
Speaker 1: the show, and thanks for being a part of the
Speaker 1: earth days of the show. I mean again, everybody that's
Speaker 1: that's been a part of this show on any level
Speaker 1: has helped make it what it is and the show
Speaker 1: wouldn't be what it is today without you. Alison. Well,
Speaker 1: that's really sweet. Thanks again, everybody. All hug All right,
Speaker 1: So there you have it. If you want to check
Speaker 1: out more Stuff to Blow your Mind, heading over to
Speaker 1: stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. That will redirect
Speaker 1: you to some of the latest episodes of the show.
Speaker 1: But you can find the podcast wherever you get podcasts
Speaker 1: these days, um, whatever the services, We're out there wherever
Speaker 1: it happens to be, though, just make sure you've subscribed
Speaker 1: and give us a little rating interview if you have
Speaker 1: the ability to do so, because that helps the show
Speaker 1: out as well. Huge thanks to Alison louder Milk for
Speaker 1: joining us today. Remember to check out how Stuff Works
Speaker 1: dot com and make it your new browser homepage. Huge
Speaker 1: thanks as well to Seth Nicholas Johnson are excellent audio producer.
Speaker 1: If you'd like to get in touch with us with
Speaker 1: feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest a
Speaker 1: topic for the future, or just to say hi, you
Speaker 1: can email us at contact at stuff to Blow your
Speaker 1: Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is a
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