WEBVTT - Silencing the Echo Chamber

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<v Speaker 1>Get in touch with technology with tech Stuff from how

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<v Speaker 1>stuff works dot com. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with

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<v Speaker 1>How Stuff Works in a love of all things tech,

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<v Speaker 1>and welcome to a week of darkness. I know we

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<v Speaker 1>just did Nuclear Power, but we're not done with some

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<v Speaker 1>dark and scary topics. This week we're going to explore

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<v Speaker 1>some stuff, uh in the world of the web that

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<v Speaker 1>is of concern, and today specifically, we're gonna talk about

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<v Speaker 1>echo chambers. Um So, also I should mention before I

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<v Speaker 1>really jump into this, I'm still dealing with a cold.

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<v Speaker 1>You may have heard from the Nuclear Power episodes that

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<v Speaker 1>I was dealing with the cold. That cold is slowly

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<v Speaker 1>moving from my head to my chest and it is

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<v Speaker 1>affecting my voice. So I could get a little extra

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<v Speaker 1>crokey over the next few episodes. So back in April,

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<v Speaker 1>Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg appeared before Congress to talk about

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<v Speaker 1>some pretty heavy topics. Now, one of the big ones

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<v Speaker 1>was about Cambridge Analytica, and the next two episodes will

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<v Speaker 1>be about Cambridge Analytica. But the other was about how

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<v Speaker 1>dozens of accounts linked to Russia had used Facebook as

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<v Speaker 1>a platform to influence US voters during the two thousand

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<v Speaker 1>and sixteen election season, and this episode is going to

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<v Speaker 1>be more about how Facebook and other social media platforms

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<v Speaker 1>got to the point where they could be exploited in

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<v Speaker 1>that way. And before I get deep into this topic,

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<v Speaker 1>I am not going to take a specific political stance

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<v Speaker 1>in this episode, so you don't need to worry about that.

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<v Speaker 1>I am not here to argue one philosophy over another.

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<v Speaker 1>This is not a pro party episode in either or

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<v Speaker 1>an anti party episode in either case. Instead, I'm going

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<v Speaker 1>to talk about the way so media platforms in general,

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<v Speaker 1>and Facebook and Twitter in particular, work to explain how

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<v Speaker 1>features that were meant to do one thing could be

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<v Speaker 1>twisted to do something else. And this can affect anyone

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<v Speaker 1>of any philosophy, so it can be exploited by anyone

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<v Speaker 1>who has ulterior motives, doesn't matter whether that's for one

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<v Speaker 1>party or for a different party. So a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>what I'm going to talk about relate is related to

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<v Speaker 1>the concept of the metaphorical echo chamber. And I'm sure

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<v Speaker 1>most of you have heard about that and you probably

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<v Speaker 1>know what it is, but just in case, I'm gonna

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<v Speaker 1>lay it out. It's a phrase we use to describe

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<v Speaker 1>an environment in which our persons previously held beliefs are

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<v Speaker 1>boosted through repetition of those beliefs within a closed system.

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<v Speaker 1>So imagine that you're in a room full of people

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<v Speaker 1>who all love one sports team and they all hate

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<v Speaker 1>another sports team. Okay, so they all share these common traits.

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<v Speaker 1>They all love Team A and they all really hate

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<v Speaker 1>team B. And they talk about how great their team

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<v Speaker 1>A is and how rotten Team B is. They all

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<v Speaker 1>feel validated in their beliefs, right. They are getting validation

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<v Speaker 1>from their peers who are also saying, you know what,

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<v Speaker 1>you're right. Teammate does rule, and Team B can go

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<v Speaker 1>kick sand. There are no dissenting opinions. There's no objective

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<v Speaker 1>point of view. Everyone is biased. By the end of

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<v Speaker 1>the meeting, everyone's pretty much sure that their team rules

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<v Speaker 1>and the other team is literally like the worst. That

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<v Speaker 1>is an echo chamber. Social media platforms can become echo

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<v Speaker 1>chambers too, and often do partly because it's hard to

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<v Speaker 1>have a nuanced conversation online where two people with different

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<v Speaker 1>points of view can come to some sort of mutual understanding.

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<v Speaker 1>That seems to be the exception as opposed to the rule.

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<v Speaker 1>When you have two people of opposing viewpoints interact online.

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<v Speaker 1>The culture of flame wars and memes, coupled with the

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<v Speaker 1>lack of tone and bodyline which and other communication tools,

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<v Speaker 1>means we're far more likely to have a shallow interaction.

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<v Speaker 1>We're either patting each other on the back for confirming

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<v Speaker 1>our common beliefs, or we're tearing each other down because

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<v Speaker 1>we share different points of view and we tend to

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<v Speaker 1>get pushed more towards radical ends of our respective philosophies.

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<v Speaker 1>It becomes an us versus them and not a wee.

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<v Speaker 1>So instead of we should work this out, it becomes

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<v Speaker 1>how can we defeat them? This is just something that

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<v Speaker 1>happens in general online more frequently than it does in

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<v Speaker 1>the real world, although it can happen in the real

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<v Speaker 1>world too. Obviously, now there have been actual studies about

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<v Speaker 1>this sort of thing. I'm not just spouting armchair philosophy,

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<v Speaker 1>but whenever it comes to psychological studies, I'm always personally

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit cautious. Not because I lack respect for psychology.

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<v Speaker 1>I have a great deal of respect for it, but

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<v Speaker 1>rather it is particularly challenging to design good scientific tests

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<v Speaker 1>for psychologic issues and and scenarios due to the enormous

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<v Speaker 1>number of variables that come along with being a human being.

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<v Speaker 1>But there is a study that published in eleven called

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<v Speaker 1>Effects of anonymity, invisibility and lack of eye contact on

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<v Speaker 1>toxic online disinhibition that explores causes for our bad behaviors

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<v Speaker 1>when we get behind a keyboard. The experiment looked at

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<v Speaker 1>how anonymity, invisibility, and lack of eye contact could affect

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<v Speaker 1>interpersonal interactions online and the researchers took subjects test subjects

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<v Speaker 1>and paired them together randomly, and each pair received a

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<v Speaker 1>dilemma that they were supposed to discuss and resolve as

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<v Speaker 1>best they could. The researchers saw the greatest evidence of

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<v Speaker 1>negative behaviors, of toxic behaviors when the subjects did not

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<v Speaker 1>have eye contact with one another in their interactions. So

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<v Speaker 1>whenever they were in a setup that prevented them from

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<v Speaker 1>being able to make eye contact with each other, they

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<v Speaker 1>saw that the toxicity of those interactions would increase. Where

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<v Speaker 1>you have people of a very different points of view

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<v Speaker 1>arguing about what's the best solution to a dilemma. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe this means that when we're online and when we're

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<v Speaker 1>interacting with someone else online. The fact we cannot see

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<v Speaker 1>that person and make eye contact with them means that

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<v Speaker 1>to a certain extent, that person doesn't seem real to us.

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<v Speaker 1>We're interacting with what appears to just be words on

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<v Speaker 1>a screen, so not a human being. This is text.

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<v Speaker 1>The fact that there is a real human being on

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<v Speaker 1>the other end of those words is a level of abstraction.

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<v Speaker 1>We usually don't bother the process, like we know that's

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<v Speaker 1>the case. We know most of the time anyway, that

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<v Speaker 1>there is an actual person on the other end of

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<v Speaker 1>those words, but that doesn't you know, knowing it doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>filter into our our immediate behaviors. Dr John Sewler defines

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<v Speaker 1>what he calls the online disinhibition effect, which consists of

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<v Speaker 1>six factors that remove or reduce inhibitions that we typically

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<v Speaker 1>feel when we interact with one another in public spaces.

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<v Speaker 1>Those factors are dissociative anonymity. That means the anonymous persona

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<v Speaker 1>we adopt online isn't quote unquote really us, right, So

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<v Speaker 1>we might act in ways that don't reflect who we

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<v Speaker 1>are as individuals in our day to day lives because

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<v Speaker 1>we're taking on a persona online and maybe this makes

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<v Speaker 1>us more bold than we normally would be, or more

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<v Speaker 1>what we think of as outspoken, and other people might

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<v Speaker 1>think of as really freaking rude. Um, anyone who has

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<v Speaker 1>spent any time online can probably say, yeah, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I get that. Like I, I'm a different person online

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<v Speaker 1>than I am in real life. Then there's invisibility that

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<v Speaker 1>means no one can judge my tone or tell what

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<v Speaker 1>I look like when I'm online, so that disinhibits me. Right. So,

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<v Speaker 1>if I have certain inhibitions I experience in my day

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<v Speaker 1>to day life because of the way I look or

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<v Speaker 1>the tone I have, and I'm constantly adjusting my behavior

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<v Speaker 1>because of that, that no longer applies when I'm online.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a synchronicity that is, your actions are not unfolding

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<v Speaker 1>in real time. You can um read a response, you

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<v Speaker 1>can write something down, days can pass in between, and

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<v Speaker 1>that changes things as well. Then there's solipsistic introjection, which

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<v Speaker 1>is because I cannot see this person, I must fill

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<v Speaker 1>in the gaps as to what they intend and who

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<v Speaker 1>they really are. So, in other words, when I interact

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<v Speaker 1>with you online, I cannot see you, and I start

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<v Speaker 1>to a sign intent and behavior to the words that

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<v Speaker 1>you're sending me because I can't see them. I can't

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<v Speaker 1>witness them myself, and now those are pieces of information

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<v Speaker 1>that are kind of necessary for me to understand the

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<v Speaker 1>meaning of what you are saying, So I start to

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<v Speaker 1>just assume what it is you mean. So this is

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<v Speaker 1>where you get into some of those problems where someone says, oh, no,

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<v Speaker 1>I was I was trying to make a joke, but

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<v Speaker 1>you took it seriously, um, which, by the way, can

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<v Speaker 1>be a real lousy way of trying to cover up

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<v Speaker 1>bad behavior saying oh, it's just joke. Um. Sometimes it

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<v Speaker 1>can literally be just a joke and it ends up

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<v Speaker 1>snowballing into something terrible. But there are a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>people who will use just a joke as a way

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<v Speaker 1>to try and excuse bad behavior in general. So it's

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<v Speaker 1>not a great response, but it does mean like if

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<v Speaker 1>you send me a message that was intended to be

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<v Speaker 1>a joke, like let's say, legit, it was meant to

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<v Speaker 1>be a joke and it wasn't mean spirited or anything

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<v Speaker 1>like that, but I misinterpreted because I have assigned a

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<v Speaker 1>motivation to you based upon those words, that's me engaging

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<v Speaker 1>in this particular behavior. Then there's dissociative imagination. That is

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<v Speaker 1>the uh, the idea that this is all online, which

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<v Speaker 1>isn't in real life. Therefore the are not real people

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<v Speaker 1>that I'm interacting with. And there's minimizing authority, which is

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<v Speaker 1>there are no Internet police, so I can do what

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<v Speaker 1>I want. It's like the Wild West, so I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>gonna get punished, So why should I worry about limiting

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<v Speaker 1>my behavior? Now, those factors will influence people and lead

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<v Speaker 1>them to behaving in ways they might not behave normally

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<v Speaker 1>in the public world, and sometimes they do that in

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<v Speaker 1>a positive way. This doesn't have to be negative. It

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<v Speaker 1>could mean that you might be more honest and open,

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<v Speaker 1>and you might be more accepting. But other times it

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<v Speaker 1>might mean being more negative than lashing out in attacks

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<v Speaker 1>in a way that you would never do in any

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<v Speaker 1>other context. And it may even be that those who

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<v Speaker 1>attack are normally pretty decent people that you know in

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<v Speaker 1>their day to day lives. They aren't uh aggressive or

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<v Speaker 1>obnoxious or insulting, but when they get online, that changes

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<v Speaker 1>and the factors remove those inhibitions they would typically feel

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<v Speaker 1>that guide them to being a any decent person. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure what that says about the real person

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<v Speaker 1>underneath all that. It doesn't seem great. If the argument

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<v Speaker 1>is this person only behaves well because he or she

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<v Speaker 1>feels they have to based upon the community they exist in,

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<v Speaker 1>that's not a great argument for that person's character, but

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<v Speaker 1>it is a reality. So out of the real world,

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<v Speaker 1>we have communities and we adapt our behaviors to the

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<v Speaker 1>communities we belong to, and this is a survival mechanism.

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<v Speaker 1>Human beings are social creatures, and to be social, one

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<v Speaker 1>of the things you have to have is the ability

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<v Speaker 1>to get along with people. If you start to alienate

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<v Speaker 1>everyone you come into contact with, eventually you'll get ostracized

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<v Speaker 1>from the community. And if we're talking about you know,

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<v Speaker 1>primitive humans, that might mean that you have severely reduced

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<v Speaker 1>your chance for survival. So a survival mechanism that is

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<v Speaker 1>important to develop is how do I get along with

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<v Speaker 1>everybody else and contribute in a way where I can

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<v Speaker 1>be part of the group. So, whether it's laws or

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<v Speaker 1>just the desire not to rock the boat, we tend

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<v Speaker 1>to behave within the context of our community's values and rules.

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<v Speaker 1>But online those things aren't nearly as present, or established

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<v Speaker 1>or enforced, and so more destructive human tendencies tend to

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<v Speaker 1>come to light there. In addition, communication online tends to

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<v Speaker 1>be fairly short with each blast, and that means we

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<v Speaker 1>have very little time to reflect on what we are

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<v Speaker 1>actually saying before we say it. Now, back in the

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<v Speaker 1>old days, gather around the fire, my friends. We would

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<v Speaker 1>write letters on paper with pen or pencil, and it

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<v Speaker 1>took ages to write something out of any substance. And

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<v Speaker 1>by the time you were finished, then you have to

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<v Speaker 1>go find an envelope and address the envelope and put

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<v Speaker 1>the letter in the envelope, but a stamp on the envelope,

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<v Speaker 1>go out to the mailbox or to the post office

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<v Speaker 1>to mail it. By the time you do all that,

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<v Speaker 1>you might have thought better of the words that you

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<v Speaker 1>wrote down, right, You might have thought, you know, there

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<v Speaker 1>probably was a better way for me to put that.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe I shouldn't say that, uh that you know you

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<v Speaker 1>are a horse's rear end. There might be a better

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<v Speaker 1>way of putting my thoughts down on paper, and you

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<v Speaker 1>would try again, or maybe you toss everything out. Venting

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<v Speaker 1>on the page might work through your feelings. Maybe even

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<v Speaker 1>through this process, you think about how the recipient of

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<v Speaker 1>your letter will react to the words that you have written,

0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:30.040
<v Speaker 1>and that might guide you to write them in a

0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:33.959
<v Speaker 1>much more constructive way. But online, when we can zap

0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:38.079
<v Speaker 1>off a quick zinger in no time, it's instant gratification.

0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:41.760
<v Speaker 1>A tweet or a Facebook update zooms out there before

0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:45.280
<v Speaker 1>we've even really thought about the consequences of what we

0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:48.680
<v Speaker 1>have just said, and the nature of online communication itself

0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:52.440
<v Speaker 1>has catered to our more base natures. Now, to be clear,

0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:56.600
<v Speaker 1>social media platforms did not create this problem. They just

0:13:57.440 --> 0:14:02.440
<v Speaker 1>facilitate it very efficient lely, and if managers of those

0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:06.920
<v Speaker 1>programs do not intervene or do not enforce behavior policies,

0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:09.920
<v Speaker 1>things can get out of hand. Now, next, we're gonna

0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:12.240
<v Speaker 1>take a look at how Facebook's algorithm works to get

0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:16.160
<v Speaker 1>a better understanding of how Russian accounts Russian hackers were

0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:19.680
<v Speaker 1>able to really exploit that system. But first let's take

0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:29.520
<v Speaker 1>a quick break to thank our sponsor. One of the

0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:33.440
<v Speaker 1>big goals for any web based property is to drive engagement.

0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:37.320
<v Speaker 1>Engagement might mean viewing more pages, which ends up counting

0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:40.640
<v Speaker 1>towards page views for advertising, or it might mean encouraging

0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:43.800
<v Speaker 1>people to buy stuff from an online store, or it

0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:46.520
<v Speaker 1>might mean getting people to sign up for newsletters or

0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:49.160
<v Speaker 1>to join groups online. But it's all about getting people

0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:52.640
<v Speaker 1>to go from being a momentary visitor to something more

0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:56.560
<v Speaker 1>than that. And Facebook measures engagement in a few ways

0:14:56.680 --> 0:14:59.320
<v Speaker 1>on their site. One of those ways is through the

0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:03.160
<v Speaker 1>number of likes or reactions a post gets. If a

0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:05.520
<v Speaker 1>post gets a lot more people hitting that like button,

0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:08.760
<v Speaker 1>then engagement is high. If nobody has reacted to it,

0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:12.320
<v Speaker 1>engagement is low. Another is in the number of times

0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:15.600
<v Speaker 1>a post is shared to various people's walls. If I

0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:18.720
<v Speaker 1>see acute meme that features foxes, I know I need

0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:21.600
<v Speaker 1>to share that on my friend Shaise wall because she

0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:25.760
<v Speaker 1>loves foxes. So I'll do that, and sharing it counts

0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:29.160
<v Speaker 1>toward the engagement of that original post. And the third

0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:33.320
<v Speaker 1>major way that Facebook gauges engagement, which I realized now

0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:38.800
<v Speaker 1>sounds a little repetitive but isn't, is through comments. So

0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:41.920
<v Speaker 1>if a post gets a lot of comments, particularly from

0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:44.240
<v Speaker 1>a lot of different people, not just the same like

0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:47.440
<v Speaker 1>two people going back and forth, Facebook registers that as

0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:50.520
<v Speaker 1>a post with high engagement. Now why is that important?

0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:53.480
<v Speaker 1>Why should you care? Well, the reason engagement is important

0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:56.840
<v Speaker 1>with Facebook is that you, as a user. Let's say

0:15:56.840 --> 0:15:58.920
<v Speaker 1>that you have a Facebook profile. Some of you may not,

0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:01.680
<v Speaker 1>but if you do, you do not see all the

0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:04.520
<v Speaker 1>stuff that your friends post on Facebook, even if they're

0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:07.760
<v Speaker 1>posting it publicly or to their friends. Even if they

0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:10.920
<v Speaker 1>are not specifically leaving you out of the posts, you're

0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:13.680
<v Speaker 1>not seeing all their stuff. And this has been a

0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:18.400
<v Speaker 1>common complaint among users, including myself. Uh. A lot of

0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:21.480
<v Speaker 1>people have argued, I wish that Facebook would just send

0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:24.960
<v Speaker 1>everything chronologically. It's my job to sit there and go

0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:26.840
<v Speaker 1>through it all and read up on things, and if

0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:29.760
<v Speaker 1>I miss stuff, I miss stuff. But Facebook doesn't do

0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:32.280
<v Speaker 1>it that way. First of all, you don't necessarily get

0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:34.840
<v Speaker 1>all the posts in chronological order, even when you said it,

0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:37.480
<v Speaker 1>because they keep changing the darn settings. But that's another

0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:39.800
<v Speaker 1>argument for another time. But you might notice when you

0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:43.200
<v Speaker 1>log on some of your friends seem like they're pretty

0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:48.120
<v Speaker 1>consistently really active, and others appear to rarely post. In fact,

0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:51.480
<v Speaker 1>some of those people who appear to rarely post might

0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:54.520
<v Speaker 1>be posting regularly, but you just aren't seeing it unless

0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:57.000
<v Speaker 1>you actually take the effort to pop on over to

0:16:57.160 --> 0:16:59.280
<v Speaker 1>that friend's wall, and then you can see all the

0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:02.320
<v Speaker 1>posts that you been missing. Well, what Facebook is doing

0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:04.919
<v Speaker 1>is serving you a selection of the stuff your friends

0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:08.560
<v Speaker 1>are sharing on the social media platform and they leave

0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:12.080
<v Speaker 1>out the rest, and Facebook will serve up posts in

0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:15.520
<v Speaker 1>your news feed that have high engagement. So if one

0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:17.840
<v Speaker 1>of your friends shares a post from someone else on

0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:21.040
<v Speaker 1>their feed that got a ton of responses, you'll probably

0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:23.720
<v Speaker 1>see that when you scroll through your feed, or if

0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:26.479
<v Speaker 1>the post has anything to do with anything you're interested in,

0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:30.760
<v Speaker 1>you'll likely see it then too. Stuff goes viral, helped

0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:33.879
<v Speaker 1>in no small part by Facebook's algorithm to make sure

0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:38.199
<v Speaker 1>the more visible posts get even more visibility and they

0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:41.679
<v Speaker 1>get the most engagement. Now, let me be clear, on

0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:44.120
<v Speaker 1>the face of it, this seems like a no brainer.

0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:47.600
<v Speaker 1>After all, if a lot of people are interested in something,

0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:50.760
<v Speaker 1>if someone writes a very thought provoking post and it

0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:53.639
<v Speaker 1>gets a lot of engagement, chances are you will be

0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:56.439
<v Speaker 1>interested in that as well. You don't want to be

0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:59.520
<v Speaker 1>left out the next conversational topic or the next fun meme.

0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:02.600
<v Speaker 1>But there's a big problem with this philosophy, and that

0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:05.560
<v Speaker 1>is you can exploit it as long as you can

0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:08.480
<v Speaker 1>make posts that drive a lot of engagement, and it

0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:12.480
<v Speaker 1>doesn't have to be positive engagement, which makes it way easier.

0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:15.639
<v Speaker 1>It can actually just be about stirring the pot and

0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:18.720
<v Speaker 1>making people mad, and you can do it without directly

0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:23.760
<v Speaker 1>violating Facebook policies. Now, if you go and post something

0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:29.080
<v Speaker 1>that's outright hateful, racist, misogynistic, or offensive, that might get

0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:33.720
<v Speaker 1>flagged and Facebook might remove it. It might not. I've

0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:37.639
<v Speaker 1>seen some pretty awful things up on Facebook that have

0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:40.840
<v Speaker 1>been left there even after people have complained. But Facebook

0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:43.439
<v Speaker 1>does have policies about this sort of stuff, and if

0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:47.240
<v Speaker 1>enough people flag it and Facebook takes notice, those posts

0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:51.200
<v Speaker 1>might get taken down. Um, So let's assume for the

0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:53.840
<v Speaker 1>moment that Facebook has established some firm rules and it's

0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:57.320
<v Speaker 1>enforcing them, and just take that off the table. What

0:18:57.520 --> 0:18:59.760
<v Speaker 1>you could still do is linked to stories that are

0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:03.679
<v Speaker 1>written specifically to rile people up. There may not be

0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:07.439
<v Speaker 1>an ounce of truth to those stories. They might be

0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:13.560
<v Speaker 1>complete fabrications, specifically crafted just to get a reaction from people.

0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:17.639
<v Speaker 1>People who agree with whatever the perspective is of the

0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:20.600
<v Speaker 1>story will share a link of that story on their

0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:23.080
<v Speaker 1>social media page, or at least they'll be more inclined to,

0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:28.080
<v Speaker 1>and others will share that and then they'll comment or

0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:30.720
<v Speaker 1>they'll engage in some way, and in this manner, the

0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:34.359
<v Speaker 1>message gets elevated and it gets spread around a little

0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:38.959
<v Speaker 1>bit more, and then you start to see it go viral,

0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:41.119
<v Speaker 1>and there doesn't ever have to be an ounce of

0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:43.840
<v Speaker 1>truth in the original story for this to happen. I've

0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:46.840
<v Speaker 1>been seeing this on Facebook for a few years, and

0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:50.840
<v Speaker 1>it's not always political. The stuff I'm talking about today

0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:54.200
<v Speaker 1>relates largely to politics, but I've seen it for all

0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:56.760
<v Speaker 1>sorts of different stuff. And I'm sure many of you

0:19:56.840 --> 0:19:59.440
<v Speaker 1>have had the experience of looking at a post that

0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:02.479
<v Speaker 1>a friend of years has shared and there's an article

0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:05.639
<v Speaker 1>that it links to with a crazy headline, and you

0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:08.440
<v Speaker 1>might say to yourself, hang on, that can't possibly be true.

0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:10.600
<v Speaker 1>And then you click through to the article and you

0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:12.600
<v Speaker 1>do a little digging maybe, and you find out that

0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:16.000
<v Speaker 1>the site that's hosting that article is a quote unquote

0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:21.720
<v Speaker 1>satire or parody site. Typically for these sites, you'll find

0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:25.880
<v Speaker 1>an about page somewhere that lays this out. But because

0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:30.480
<v Speaker 1>our real journalism has become so focused on creating clickable

0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:34.160
<v Speaker 1>or a clickbait if you prefer headlines, the quote unquote

0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:38.600
<v Speaker 1>joke articles don't seem that unreasonable within that same context, right,

0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:44.040
<v Speaker 1>You've got legitimate news outlets that are creating ridiculous headlines

0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:47.040
<v Speaker 1>because they work. They get people to click on the stories,

0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:51.399
<v Speaker 1>and the stories might be very well written, very well researched.

0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:56.199
<v Speaker 1>But that headline culture means that when we encounter a

0:20:56.520 --> 0:21:01.560
<v Speaker 1>quote unquote satire or parody headline, it's not always clear

0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:04.680
<v Speaker 1>that it's a joke, because we see crazy stuff all

0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:08.920
<v Speaker 1>the time. Now click bait has made that a reality,

0:21:09.280 --> 0:21:11.840
<v Speaker 1>and so it only matters if you go further in

0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:15.240
<v Speaker 1>and read the actual article to see, all right, is

0:21:15.280 --> 0:21:19.280
<v Speaker 1>this legit or is this a joke? What is this?

0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:23.640
<v Speaker 1>Sometimes it's a joke, and sometimes it's very evident from

0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:25.720
<v Speaker 1>the beginning, like you start reading the article and you think,

0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:28.680
<v Speaker 1>all right, this is a joke. But my friend clearly

0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:31.040
<v Speaker 1>didn't read the article. They just saw the headline and

0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:35.560
<v Speaker 1>shared it and that became their contribution to the conversation,

0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:38.080
<v Speaker 1>which really all it did was add more traffic to

0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:41.960
<v Speaker 1>this website. In other cases, it may not obviously be

0:21:42.000 --> 0:21:43.560
<v Speaker 1>a joke, and it's only when you go to the

0:21:43.600 --> 0:21:46.600
<v Speaker 1>about page on the website that you see that everything

0:21:46.640 --> 0:21:49.240
<v Speaker 1>is supposed to be satire, although for it to really

0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:52.920
<v Speaker 1>be satire, you have to know it's satire um In reality,

0:21:52.920 --> 0:21:55.720
<v Speaker 1>I would call those websites just purveyors of lies. They

0:21:55.760 --> 0:21:59.160
<v Speaker 1>just make up junk and they pass it off as true.

0:21:59.400 --> 0:22:01.840
<v Speaker 1>And it's only if you dig in the website that

0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:04.399
<v Speaker 1>you find the little disclaimer saying, oh, this is a

0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:08.240
<v Speaker 1>satire site. That's not really satire, that's fake news. Um.

0:22:08.440 --> 0:22:11.640
<v Speaker 1>And I hate using the term fake news because it's

0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:14.720
<v Speaker 1>so politicized, but there really is that stuff out there,

0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:16.720
<v Speaker 1>and it's been there for years. And like I said,

0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:20.040
<v Speaker 1>it's not just politics. I've seen it for things like, uh,

0:22:20.080 --> 0:22:23.840
<v Speaker 1>the entertainment industry, where you'll see some ridiculous headline you think, well,

0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:26.920
<v Speaker 1>that's just bizarre, and only through digging you realize, oh,

0:22:27.160 --> 0:22:29.879
<v Speaker 1>there's nothing to this. So the owners of those sites

0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:32.960
<v Speaker 1>are really in a sweet spot. They can point to

0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:35.800
<v Speaker 1>that about page and say, hey, it's not our intent

0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:37.879
<v Speaker 1>to be taken as a serious source of news. You

0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:39.520
<v Speaker 1>just read our about page. You see that we're a

0:22:39.600 --> 0:22:43.359
<v Speaker 1>joke site. But they also keep publishing articles that don't

0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:45.080
<v Speaker 1>seem to be so much of a joke as an

0:22:45.119 --> 0:22:49.800
<v Speaker 1>outright fabrication, and they end up making huge amounts of

0:22:49.800 --> 0:22:54.160
<v Speaker 1>money off of ads. High engagement means high traffic. High

0:22:54.200 --> 0:22:56.920
<v Speaker 1>traffic means high page views, high page views means you're

0:22:57.000 --> 0:22:59.320
<v Speaker 1>start making money off the ads that you serve against

0:22:59.320 --> 0:23:02.119
<v Speaker 1>your site. So those deceitful articles are really just a

0:23:02.160 --> 0:23:05.800
<v Speaker 1>means to an end. The consequences of those deceitful articles,

0:23:05.840 --> 0:23:09.439
<v Speaker 1>the idea that they might be spreading misinformation, that's not

0:23:09.560 --> 0:23:12.480
<v Speaker 1>really a consideration or concern for a lot of these sites.

0:23:12.640 --> 0:23:15.680
<v Speaker 1>And I've read articles, I've read interviews by people who

0:23:15.680 --> 0:23:19.520
<v Speaker 1>wrote for these sites, and it's clear that they were

0:23:19.560 --> 0:23:22.440
<v Speaker 1>just trying to think of ways that would get more

0:23:22.480 --> 0:23:26.959
<v Speaker 1>people to click on stories, and that beyond that, they

0:23:27.000 --> 0:23:30.240
<v Speaker 1>didn't care. They just wanted to drive traffic, to get

0:23:30.240 --> 0:23:31.760
<v Speaker 1>a lot of traffic, to make a lot of money,

0:23:32.160 --> 0:23:34.919
<v Speaker 1>and so they would just come up with whatever outlandish

0:23:34.960 --> 0:23:37.320
<v Speaker 1>stories they could think of that would play right into

0:23:37.359 --> 0:23:41.760
<v Speaker 1>people's preconceived ideas in order to make money. It's very cynical,

0:23:42.119 --> 0:23:45.320
<v Speaker 1>and as someone who works very hard to create content

0:23:45.400 --> 0:23:48.240
<v Speaker 1>that I consider to be of high quality, I find

0:23:48.240 --> 0:23:51.679
<v Speaker 1>it quite insulting to just both as a reader and

0:23:51.720 --> 0:23:54.560
<v Speaker 1>as someone who creates content. All Right, so you've got

0:23:54.560 --> 0:23:58.040
<v Speaker 1>these writers cynically creating inflammatory articles to drive traffic to

0:23:58.040 --> 0:24:01.040
<v Speaker 1>a site. They might incorporate just enough real world facts

0:24:01.080 --> 0:24:03.800
<v Speaker 1>to give the article some believability, but even that isn't

0:24:03.800 --> 0:24:06.720
<v Speaker 1>really necessary, as a lot of people are going to

0:24:06.840 --> 0:24:09.560
<v Speaker 1>just share an article if the headline gets their attention

0:24:09.640 --> 0:24:12.400
<v Speaker 1>and seems to confirm they're already held beliefs. And if

0:24:12.400 --> 0:24:15.160
<v Speaker 1>you believe deep in your heart that your local government

0:24:15.240 --> 0:24:17.959
<v Speaker 1>was I don't know, replaced with pod people or something,

0:24:18.320 --> 0:24:21.719
<v Speaker 1>the headline that says as much confirms and validates your belief.

0:24:22.000 --> 0:24:24.879
<v Speaker 1>And hey, you're busy, right. You can't be expected to

0:24:24.960 --> 0:24:27.639
<v Speaker 1>read every article you come across just to see if

0:24:27.680 --> 0:24:30.400
<v Speaker 1>it's legit, or even do further digging to make sure

0:24:30.480 --> 0:24:32.399
<v Speaker 1>the site that hosted the article is in fact a

0:24:32.440 --> 0:24:35.439
<v Speaker 1>real news site, so you just share it. Add to

0:24:35.520 --> 0:24:38.600
<v Speaker 1>this the fact that there are countless sites out there

0:24:38.720 --> 0:24:43.720
<v Speaker 1>that only exist to repurpose other people's content that performs

0:24:43.760 --> 0:24:47.120
<v Speaker 1>well in order to exploit that content for advertising revenue.

0:24:47.359 --> 0:24:49.360
<v Speaker 1>And you have a recipe to make things worse. So

0:24:49.400 --> 0:24:53.159
<v Speaker 1>these are outfits that are all about let's look and

0:24:53.200 --> 0:24:56.200
<v Speaker 1>see what's trending, and hey, there's this article. Let's say

0:24:56.200 --> 0:24:58.680
<v Speaker 1>it's on BuzzFeed. There's this article on BuzzFeed. It's to

0:24:58.800 --> 0:25:01.840
<v Speaker 1>end super well, let's do a version, our version of

0:25:01.880 --> 0:25:04.880
<v Speaker 1>that exact same article, and we're going to piggyback off

0:25:04.920 --> 0:25:08.520
<v Speaker 1>their success. Um, there are a lot of different sites

0:25:08.560 --> 0:25:11.560
<v Speaker 1>out there that are essentially doing this. They're taking other

0:25:11.600 --> 0:25:15.840
<v Speaker 1>people's content. They might change enough stuff so that it's not,

0:25:16.520 --> 0:25:20.119
<v Speaker 1>you know, just a hatchet copy and paste job, but

0:25:20.720 --> 0:25:24.359
<v Speaker 1>ultimately they're just again about trying to get as much

0:25:25.000 --> 0:25:28.760
<v Speaker 1>traffic as possible. The content can be terrible. By the way,

0:25:29.040 --> 0:25:31.199
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't matter if the content is good or not.

0:25:31.280 --> 0:25:33.600
<v Speaker 1>It just has to drive engagement. So now you've got

0:25:33.640 --> 0:25:37.439
<v Speaker 1>people trying to make legitimate, good content, the content that

0:25:37.600 --> 0:25:41.200
<v Speaker 1>is thorough, it's investigative, it's objective, it's of high quality,

0:25:41.640 --> 0:25:44.960
<v Speaker 1>and they're competing with people just throwing junk up online

0:25:44.960 --> 0:25:47.520
<v Speaker 1>as fast as they possibly can to drive as many

0:25:47.520 --> 0:25:51.440
<v Speaker 1>page views as possible. This is not a good environment

0:25:51.480 --> 0:25:54.320
<v Speaker 1>if you want to make good content, because you get

0:25:54.400 --> 0:25:57.560
<v Speaker 1>drowned out by all the noise. You can hope that

0:25:57.640 --> 0:26:01.440
<v Speaker 1>your reputation is good enough so that people take you seriously,

0:26:02.280 --> 0:26:04.880
<v Speaker 1>but you're still going up against people who just don't

0:26:05.000 --> 0:26:09.080
<v Speaker 1>care about quality. They care about quantity and engagement, and

0:26:09.400 --> 0:26:13.760
<v Speaker 1>that is very demoralizing as you go on. Now, so

0:26:13.840 --> 0:26:16.360
<v Speaker 1>far i've been talking about this just as a way

0:26:16.400 --> 0:26:19.399
<v Speaker 1>to make money through serving up ads against lousy content.

0:26:19.480 --> 0:26:21.760
<v Speaker 1>But when we come back, I'll talk about the dreaded

0:26:21.920 --> 0:26:25.480
<v Speaker 1>fake news for political gains. I'm talking about the stuff

0:26:25.520 --> 0:26:31.080
<v Speaker 1>fabricated to guide conversations and influence political elections. So stay

0:26:31.119 --> 0:26:33.560
<v Speaker 1>tuned because that's coming up next. But first let's take

0:26:33.600 --> 0:26:44.560
<v Speaker 1>a quick break to thank our sponsor. Propaganda is a

0:26:44.640 --> 0:26:47.760
<v Speaker 1>really old idea, and the definition of propaganda is that

0:26:47.840 --> 0:26:53.480
<v Speaker 1>it is information, typically biased, sometimes disinformation or misleading information,

0:26:53.880 --> 0:26:57.120
<v Speaker 1>maybe an even outright lie, but it's used to promote

0:26:57.200 --> 0:27:01.160
<v Speaker 1>a particular philosophical or political point of view. All sorts

0:27:01.200 --> 0:27:04.879
<v Speaker 1>of organizations used propaganda to build support among the general

0:27:04.920 --> 0:27:09.280
<v Speaker 1>public for a particular stance or action, such as electing

0:27:09.359 --> 0:27:14.280
<v Speaker 1>a leader or putting your faith in an organization. Russian

0:27:14.320 --> 0:27:17.280
<v Speaker 1>propaganda is kind of in a class all of its own.

0:27:17.400 --> 0:27:21.920
<v Speaker 1>For decades, the Soviet government used propaganda to praise Soviet

0:27:22.040 --> 0:27:26.560
<v Speaker 1>leaders and demonize Western countries, particularly the United States, as

0:27:26.560 --> 0:27:29.920
<v Speaker 1>well as the concept of capitalism. During the Soviet era,

0:27:30.480 --> 0:27:34.960
<v Speaker 1>the various publications in the Soviet Union were state owned,

0:27:35.320 --> 0:27:39.800
<v Speaker 1>so the government got to dictate what was communicated down

0:27:39.840 --> 0:27:45.520
<v Speaker 1>to the citizens. Us very much a propaganda machine. Russian

0:27:45.560 --> 0:27:49.880
<v Speaker 1>propagandists included artists who are great at capturing the public imagination.

0:27:50.359 --> 0:27:52.760
<v Speaker 1>Now these days, at least when it comes to the Internet,

0:27:52.880 --> 0:27:57.399
<v Speaker 1>Russian propagandists are like assembly line workers. In March two

0:27:57.440 --> 0:28:01.399
<v Speaker 1>thousand eighteen, Time magazine published an article titled a former

0:28:01.560 --> 0:28:06.399
<v Speaker 1>Russian troll explains how to spread fake news Now. That person,

0:28:06.880 --> 0:28:11.000
<v Speaker 1>vitally best Belove, explained that he took a job with

0:28:11.119 --> 0:28:17.440
<v Speaker 1>a company called the Internet Research Agency. That particular company,

0:28:17.480 --> 0:28:19.960
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people call it a troll factory. It's

0:28:20.000 --> 0:28:24.320
<v Speaker 1>just infamous for churning up people who do this professionally

0:28:24.440 --> 0:28:27.560
<v Speaker 1>in Russia. The real purpose of this organization is not

0:28:27.640 --> 0:28:31.439
<v Speaker 1>to conduct research, despite the name Internet Research Agency, but

0:28:31.600 --> 0:28:34.880
<v Speaker 1>rather spread propaganda as quickly and as effectively as possible.

0:28:35.240 --> 0:28:39.120
<v Speaker 1>The employees were given instructions to create fake accounts on

0:28:39.240 --> 0:28:42.680
<v Speaker 1>various social media sites like Facebook and Twitter, and to

0:28:42.760 --> 0:28:46.800
<v Speaker 1>leave comments and posts that followed the directions of their superiors.

0:28:47.480 --> 0:28:50.160
<v Speaker 1>So those directions could involve sharing an article that was

0:28:50.200 --> 0:28:53.600
<v Speaker 1>written specifically to appeal to people with particular political or

0:28:53.600 --> 0:28:57.440
<v Speaker 1>social views, or to leave comments on posts of that nature,

0:28:57.960 --> 0:29:00.160
<v Speaker 1>and the whole point was to make those article will

0:29:00.160 --> 0:29:04.600
<v Speaker 1>seem relevant and important and elevated and popular to get

0:29:04.600 --> 0:29:07.400
<v Speaker 1>a post rolling with enough momentum and make it go

0:29:07.680 --> 0:29:11.200
<v Speaker 1>viral so that it could affect as many people as possible.

0:29:11.400 --> 0:29:15.200
<v Speaker 1>The Russian government, by the way, doesn't place the same

0:29:15.280 --> 0:29:19.800
<v Speaker 1>value on free speech as say United States citizens do.

0:29:20.280 --> 0:29:23.040
<v Speaker 1>The Russian government has laws that make it illegal to

0:29:23.160 --> 0:29:27.000
<v Speaker 1>post certain types of material on social media pages, such

0:29:27.000 --> 0:29:30.320
<v Speaker 1>as material meant to quote threatened public order end quote,

0:29:30.480 --> 0:29:33.520
<v Speaker 1>or posts that are extremist in nature. Now, on the

0:29:33.520 --> 0:29:36.400
<v Speaker 1>face of it, that sounds reasonable, because you don't want

0:29:36.400 --> 0:29:40.040
<v Speaker 1>people to incite others to violence, But the Russian government's

0:29:40.080 --> 0:29:42.960
<v Speaker 1>interpretation of this tends to be we don't want you

0:29:43.040 --> 0:29:46.240
<v Speaker 1>posting anything that criticizes the Russian government in general, or

0:29:46.320 --> 0:29:51.200
<v Speaker 1>Vladimir Putin in particular, or any of Putant's buddies generally speaking.

0:29:52.400 --> 0:29:57.200
<v Speaker 1>So the Russian rules seem to be we want to

0:29:57.200 --> 0:29:59.760
<v Speaker 1>make sure that everything that is posted is true and

0:30:00.080 --> 0:30:04.160
<v Speaker 1>liable and objective. But in reality, it's more about we

0:30:04.200 --> 0:30:06.760
<v Speaker 1>don't want to see you posting anything that's critical of

0:30:06.760 --> 0:30:11.360
<v Speaker 1>our president. Twitter has also been a target for these

0:30:11.400 --> 0:30:14.239
<v Speaker 1>types of tactics. In July two thousand eighteen, NBR ran

0:30:14.280 --> 0:30:17.720
<v Speaker 1>a story about how that same Internet Research agency had

0:30:17.800 --> 0:30:22.680
<v Speaker 1>created nearly fifty Twitter accounts claiming to represent various US newspapers.

0:30:23.480 --> 0:30:28.040
<v Speaker 1>Most of those newspapers were fake. They did not exist.

0:30:28.440 --> 0:30:31.880
<v Speaker 1>They were just made up by the Twitter accounts. So

0:30:32.320 --> 0:30:35.680
<v Speaker 1>you might see a title, their city name and a

0:30:35.760 --> 0:30:39.440
<v Speaker 1>newspaper title, and there's no actual newspaper called that from

0:30:39.480 --> 0:30:45.040
<v Speaker 1>that city. The accounts were steadily gathering followers, and they

0:30:45.040 --> 0:30:48.040
<v Speaker 1>were posting links to news that was relevant to the

0:30:48.120 --> 0:30:52.360
<v Speaker 1>various regions the papers claimed to represent, like Chicago or Seattle.

0:30:52.880 --> 0:30:55.880
<v Speaker 1>And again, some of these were taking names of papers

0:30:55.920 --> 0:30:59.560
<v Speaker 1>that one day existed but haven't existed for decades, so

0:30:59.680 --> 0:31:02.320
<v Speaker 1>they were trying to trade on that legitimacy, and they

0:31:02.360 --> 0:31:07.240
<v Speaker 1>were also trying to establish a sense of legitimacy by

0:31:07.320 --> 0:31:12.440
<v Speaker 1>sending spreading links to real stories that were from those areas,

0:31:13.160 --> 0:31:16.440
<v Speaker 1>and they were unbiased news reports. This was not a

0:31:16.480 --> 0:31:19.880
<v Speaker 1>misinformation campaign at this point, there was no fake news

0:31:19.960 --> 0:31:23.719
<v Speaker 1>being spread around. But NBR had uncovered this trend and

0:31:23.760 --> 0:31:26.720
<v Speaker 1>realized that what was happening was that the Internet Research

0:31:26.760 --> 0:31:31.920
<v Speaker 1>Agency was building trust online through these fake accounts and

0:31:32.000 --> 0:31:36.320
<v Speaker 1>gathering followers that way and being seen as a reliable

0:31:36.360 --> 0:31:40.320
<v Speaker 1>news source, and it was all in preparation to begin

0:31:40.520 --> 0:31:43.560
<v Speaker 1>a misinformation campaign. It's just that NBR found out about

0:31:43.560 --> 0:31:47.800
<v Speaker 1>it before they had moved into that phase. Twitter, like Facebook,

0:31:47.800 --> 0:31:52.600
<v Speaker 1>measures engagement and stuff like replies, retweets, quoted tweets, likes,

0:31:52.720 --> 0:31:55.360
<v Speaker 1>that kind of thing, and those metrics guide Twitter to

0:31:55.400 --> 0:31:59.680
<v Speaker 1>occasionally show tweets beyond the feeds of people that are

0:31:59.760 --> 0:32:02.640
<v Speaker 1>directly following those accounts. So, in other words, if I

0:32:02.680 --> 0:32:06.160
<v Speaker 1>make a Twitter account and I follow let's say five people,

0:32:07.000 --> 0:32:10.560
<v Speaker 1>and I'm I would expect every time I log into Twitter,

0:32:10.800 --> 0:32:13.600
<v Speaker 1>I'm just gonna see the tweets from those five people

0:32:13.720 --> 0:32:16.360
<v Speaker 1>and the stuff that they retweet or quote, and that's

0:32:16.400 --> 0:32:18.800
<v Speaker 1>all I'm gonna see. So I might see tweets from

0:32:18.800 --> 0:32:21.360
<v Speaker 1>others occasionally, but because one of the people I followed

0:32:21.400 --> 0:32:25.200
<v Speaker 1>retweeted it or quoted it. Except that sometimes Twitter will

0:32:25.200 --> 0:32:28.640
<v Speaker 1>show me tweets beyond those five people that were not

0:32:28.720 --> 0:32:34.160
<v Speaker 1>retweeted or quoted by them. And you might not follow

0:32:34.320 --> 0:32:37.000
<v Speaker 1>one of those fake accounts, but you might still see

0:32:37.000 --> 0:32:39.560
<v Speaker 1>a post from it because it drove a lot of engagement,

0:32:39.920 --> 0:32:42.479
<v Speaker 1>and thus Twitter would serve it up to you saying, well,

0:32:43.040 --> 0:32:46.479
<v Speaker 1>this particular post seems to be really relevant. A lot

0:32:46.480 --> 0:32:48.400
<v Speaker 1>of people are responding to it, so maybe we should

0:32:48.400 --> 0:32:50.360
<v Speaker 1>show it to more people because I bet more people

0:32:50.520 --> 0:32:54.400
<v Speaker 1>will find it interesting. And that's one way Twitter can

0:32:54.440 --> 0:33:01.000
<v Speaker 1>facilitate the uh the spread of misinformation, or they can

0:33:01.040 --> 0:33:03.840
<v Speaker 1>pay for promoted tweets, which means Twitter will serve it

0:33:03.920 --> 0:33:06.200
<v Speaker 1>up to a larger number of people, regardless of whether

0:33:06.280 --> 0:33:09.000
<v Speaker 1>or not they follow the original account. And of course,

0:33:09.040 --> 0:33:11.240
<v Speaker 1>if someone you follow retweets are quotes a tweet from

0:33:11.240 --> 0:33:13.240
<v Speaker 1>differ account, you're going to see it then. So, like

0:33:13.320 --> 0:33:16.760
<v Speaker 1>Facebook's algorithm, this approach is something people can exploit, and

0:33:16.840 --> 0:33:19.320
<v Speaker 1>that seems to be the case. Since the twenty six

0:33:19.560 --> 0:33:22.680
<v Speaker 1>election in the United States, both Facebook and Twitter have

0:33:22.760 --> 0:33:25.440
<v Speaker 1>cracked down on accounts that were fake in the sense

0:33:25.520 --> 0:33:28.959
<v Speaker 1>that the entity the account claimed to represent was not

0:33:29.080 --> 0:33:32.000
<v Speaker 1>the real owner of the account, or they were accounts

0:33:32.040 --> 0:33:36.480
<v Speaker 1>that existed specifically to spread misinformation. So you can see,

0:33:36.520 --> 0:33:39.280
<v Speaker 1>our love of social media and the business model that

0:33:39.360 --> 0:33:44.040
<v Speaker 1>supports social media has created a perfect situation for savvy

0:33:44.120 --> 0:33:47.640
<v Speaker 1>people who wish to spread a specific message. We humans

0:33:47.720 --> 0:33:51.320
<v Speaker 1>are less likely to feel empathy in online interactions with

0:33:51.360 --> 0:33:54.440
<v Speaker 1>each other, were more likely to respond quickly and with

0:33:54.640 --> 0:33:58.160
<v Speaker 1>very little inhibition. This leads to other people responding to

0:33:58.200 --> 0:34:01.360
<v Speaker 1>our words in a similar manner, either in support of

0:34:01.360 --> 0:34:05.600
<v Speaker 1>our view or an attempt to rip us to shreds,

0:34:05.640 --> 0:34:10.160
<v Speaker 1>and the process continues. That same process fuels the visibility

0:34:10.160 --> 0:34:13.600
<v Speaker 1>of the original piece of content that prompted the flame

0:34:13.640 --> 0:34:15.920
<v Speaker 1>war in the first place, which means even more people

0:34:15.960 --> 0:34:19.480
<v Speaker 1>see it and react to it. This rewards the social

0:34:19.520 --> 0:34:22.600
<v Speaker 1>media site, as the more engagement needs more money from

0:34:22.680 --> 0:34:26.360
<v Speaker 1>ads served on the site itself. So Facebook once more engagement,

0:34:26.600 --> 0:34:30.560
<v Speaker 1>they want to make more money through ads and the

0:34:30.680 --> 0:34:33.759
<v Speaker 1>uh It rewards whatever entity posts the content because it

0:34:33.800 --> 0:34:36.160
<v Speaker 1>means that the message is getting out there is shaping

0:34:36.160 --> 0:34:39.200
<v Speaker 1>the perception of whatever the topic happens to be, and

0:34:39.239 --> 0:34:41.640
<v Speaker 1>it can also be a monetary reward if the content

0:34:41.760 --> 0:34:45.440
<v Speaker 1>is served up with ads for those entities, and it

0:34:45.520 --> 0:34:48.200
<v Speaker 1>serves to create a deeper divide between the people who

0:34:48.280 --> 0:34:50.799
<v Speaker 1>have opposing points of view on a given subject. And

0:34:50.880 --> 0:34:54.840
<v Speaker 1>since it is a more challenging prospect to engage online

0:34:54.920 --> 0:34:57.680
<v Speaker 1>in an empathetic way, we are not likely to come

0:34:57.719 --> 0:35:01.279
<v Speaker 1>to any sort of agreement on that object. Instead, we're

0:35:01.280 --> 0:35:04.839
<v Speaker 1>gonna push ourselves more toward that us versus them mentality.

0:35:05.320 --> 0:35:08.279
<v Speaker 1>Now I didn't even touch on other problems, such as

0:35:08.320 --> 0:35:11.120
<v Speaker 1>the belief that journalism must give an equal amount of

0:35:11.160 --> 0:35:14.520
<v Speaker 1>time and opportunity to all perspectives on the topic. Now,

0:35:14.600 --> 0:35:18.600
<v Speaker 1>journalism should be objective and unbiased. It should be investigative.

0:35:18.640 --> 0:35:21.520
<v Speaker 1>It should not take anything at face value. But that

0:35:21.680 --> 0:35:24.200
<v Speaker 1>is not the same thing as giving all sides of

0:35:24.200 --> 0:35:27.279
<v Speaker 1>a discussion equal opportunity to use the platform to get

0:35:27.280 --> 0:35:30.080
<v Speaker 1>a message out. If there's a hate group that exists

0:35:30.120 --> 0:35:34.560
<v Speaker 1>primarily to oppress some other group, it's not responsible journalism

0:35:34.560 --> 0:35:37.879
<v Speaker 1>to give that group a platform to espouse those beliefs. Now,

0:35:37.880 --> 0:35:41.440
<v Speaker 1>it would be objective journalism to investigate that group to

0:35:41.520 --> 0:35:45.280
<v Speaker 1>determine what are the motivations behind that group's philosophy, why

0:35:45.320 --> 0:35:48.360
<v Speaker 1>do they believe the things they do, and why do

0:35:48.440 --> 0:35:50.440
<v Speaker 1>they act in the ways that they have chosen, and

0:35:50.480 --> 0:35:55.600
<v Speaker 1>to publish that that response, That that investigation. But it

0:35:55.760 --> 0:36:00.040
<v Speaker 1>is not journalism's responsibility to act like a stage for

0:36:00.160 --> 0:36:03.160
<v Speaker 1>anyone to jump up and use it. So what can

0:36:03.200 --> 0:36:05.560
<v Speaker 1>we do about this? Well, one thing we can try

0:36:05.560 --> 0:36:09.600
<v Speaker 1>to remember is that the people online are mostly people mostly.

0:36:10.080 --> 0:36:12.440
<v Speaker 1>I mean there are bots, their fake accounts that have

0:36:12.520 --> 0:36:14.920
<v Speaker 1>made this kind of muddy, makes it a little more

0:36:14.960 --> 0:36:17.920
<v Speaker 1>tricky to just make a blanket statement to be honest.

0:36:18.120 --> 0:36:20.520
<v Speaker 1>And in some cases, the quote unquote person on the

0:36:20.520 --> 0:36:23.040
<v Speaker 1>other end may either not be a person at all,

0:36:23.600 --> 0:36:25.480
<v Speaker 1>or they may be someone who is posting something they

0:36:25.480 --> 0:36:28.759
<v Speaker 1>don't necessarily believe or care about. They're just posting it

0:36:28.800 --> 0:36:31.960
<v Speaker 1>because it's literally their job to do it. They're just

0:36:32.120 --> 0:36:36.680
<v Speaker 1>filling out an assignment. They don't care because they have

0:36:36.719 --> 0:36:40.000
<v Speaker 1>no investment in whatever the messages. But we should remember

0:36:40.080 --> 0:36:43.320
<v Speaker 1>that most of the people that we interact with online

0:36:43.440 --> 0:36:46.720
<v Speaker 1>are people, and we need to keep that in our minds.

0:36:46.920 --> 0:36:50.839
<v Speaker 1>If we are not willing to make that that assumption,

0:36:51.400 --> 0:36:54.640
<v Speaker 1>then that says something very troubling about our own character. Now, no,

0:36:54.800 --> 0:36:57.319
<v Speaker 1>when I say this, I do not mean that we

0:36:57.400 --> 0:37:01.719
<v Speaker 1>need to entertain racist or misogynist or hateful ideologies just

0:37:01.800 --> 0:37:04.400
<v Speaker 1>because people hold them. I don't think there's any place

0:37:04.480 --> 0:37:06.600
<v Speaker 1>for that kind of stuff, at least no place I

0:37:06.719 --> 0:37:09.759
<v Speaker 1>want to be in. Another thing we can try to

0:37:09.800 --> 0:37:13.719
<v Speaker 1>do is seek out information from reliable sources, not just

0:37:13.880 --> 0:37:17.680
<v Speaker 1>information that seems to support our own personal worldview, but

0:37:17.800 --> 0:37:22.160
<v Speaker 1>objective information about any number of topics. And it might

0:37:22.200 --> 0:37:25.120
<v Speaker 1>mean that you find yourself questioning your own perspective about

0:37:25.120 --> 0:37:28.719
<v Speaker 1>certain things, and maybe you even change your mind. For example,

0:37:29.000 --> 0:37:30.879
<v Speaker 1>if you asked me a year ago why I thought

0:37:30.920 --> 0:37:34.160
<v Speaker 1>about universal basic income as a concept, I would probably

0:37:34.200 --> 0:37:36.960
<v Speaker 1>be pretty positive about it, and I still am. I'm

0:37:37.000 --> 0:37:39.240
<v Speaker 1>still more or less positive about it. But I think

0:37:40.120 --> 0:37:42.920
<v Speaker 1>instead of universal basic income, what I would prefer to

0:37:42.960 --> 0:37:47.640
<v Speaker 1>see is some sort of universal guaranteed jobs program. So,

0:37:47.680 --> 0:37:49.799
<v Speaker 1>in other words, I would like to see a program

0:37:49.840 --> 0:37:53.680
<v Speaker 1>where anyone who wants to find a job can get

0:37:53.719 --> 0:37:56.600
<v Speaker 1>a job. It's a guarantee. Now, those jobs would have

0:37:56.640 --> 0:37:59.319
<v Speaker 1>to be created by various governments at various levels. It

0:37:59.400 --> 0:38:03.799
<v Speaker 1>could be everything from a local government to federal programs,

0:38:04.840 --> 0:38:07.880
<v Speaker 1>but it could include all different types of work as well,

0:38:07.960 --> 0:38:09.879
<v Speaker 1>and that would be very important. But I don't say

0:38:09.880 --> 0:38:12.960
<v Speaker 1>this to convince anyone that my beliefs are the only

0:38:13.600 --> 0:38:16.880
<v Speaker 1>legit ones, that my approach is the only right way,

0:38:17.239 --> 0:38:20.320
<v Speaker 1>and that everyone should just subscribe to my idea, or

0:38:20.360 --> 0:38:22.759
<v Speaker 1>at least the idea that I have already subscribed to.

0:38:22.800 --> 0:38:26.480
<v Speaker 1>It's not my idea. Other people have had universally guaranteed

0:38:26.560 --> 0:38:31.120
<v Speaker 1>job program UH suggestions for years and years and years.

0:38:31.200 --> 0:38:33.680
<v Speaker 1>I did not come up with that idea, but I

0:38:33.760 --> 0:38:36.360
<v Speaker 1>just wanted to give you an example as an idea

0:38:36.400 --> 0:38:39.200
<v Speaker 1>where originally I was thinking, yeah, universal basic income, that

0:38:39.239 --> 0:38:41.920
<v Speaker 1>makes most sense to me. But I actually think that

0:38:42.080 --> 0:38:46.399
<v Speaker 1>the guaranteed jobs makes more sense because it creates more

0:38:47.120 --> 0:38:50.000
<v Speaker 1>direct benefits, and I think it's an easier concept to

0:38:51.520 --> 0:38:54.440
<v Speaker 1>get up to to get support behind. So there are

0:38:54.520 --> 0:38:58.120
<v Speaker 1>reasons why I've changed my mind. But that wouldn't have

0:38:58.120 --> 0:39:01.640
<v Speaker 1>been possible if I had not sought out more information

0:39:01.640 --> 0:39:04.600
<v Speaker 1>about the subject from a variety of different sources. If

0:39:04.640 --> 0:39:09.440
<v Speaker 1>I had only just kept reading people who were advocating

0:39:09.480 --> 0:39:12.240
<v Speaker 1>for universal basic income, I never would have taken any

0:39:12.280 --> 0:39:16.840
<v Speaker 1>time to consider alternatives. So that's a simple example, and

0:39:16.880 --> 0:39:21.960
<v Speaker 1>also it's an example that I admit is is fairly shallow. Right,

0:39:22.200 --> 0:39:24.759
<v Speaker 1>it's not a huge shift to go from universal basic

0:39:24.800 --> 0:39:29.600
<v Speaker 1>income to universal uh guaranteed job program. That's not an

0:39:29.680 --> 0:39:32.400
<v Speaker 1>enormous leap. It would take a lot more for me

0:39:32.480 --> 0:39:36.520
<v Speaker 1>to change a more fundamental idea. I have to something

0:39:36.560 --> 0:39:40.160
<v Speaker 1>that is more in opposition to that idea. But it

0:39:40.280 --> 0:39:42.920
<v Speaker 1>is important for us to seek those pieces of information

0:39:42.920 --> 0:39:46.760
<v Speaker 1>out so that we aren't just confirming our biases, whether

0:39:47.040 --> 0:39:51.480
<v Speaker 1>we consider ourselves liberal or conservative, whatever it may be.

0:39:52.520 --> 0:39:54.640
<v Speaker 1>It's very important to try and seek that out. Now,

0:39:54.640 --> 0:39:58.080
<v Speaker 1>the real trick there, obviously, is trying to find sources

0:39:58.120 --> 0:40:01.360
<v Speaker 1>that are as objective as possible and you're not just reading,

0:40:02.040 --> 0:40:06.600
<v Speaker 1>you know, propaganda that is supporting one viewpoint over another.

0:40:07.000 --> 0:40:08.760
<v Speaker 1>I don't think we're going to get to a spot

0:40:08.760 --> 0:40:12.640
<v Speaker 1>where everyone magically becomes totally objective and empathetic all at

0:40:12.680 --> 0:40:15.279
<v Speaker 1>the same time and makes decisions that are responsible from

0:40:15.280 --> 0:40:17.600
<v Speaker 1>a social and physical point of view. I don't think

0:40:17.600 --> 0:40:21.520
<v Speaker 1>that's going to happen. But being aware of how online information,

0:40:21.680 --> 0:40:24.719
<v Speaker 1>which has become the primary source for information for a

0:40:24.760 --> 0:40:28.240
<v Speaker 1>growing number of people, can be used to manipulate those people,

0:40:28.560 --> 0:40:32.200
<v Speaker 1>that's of critical importance. Only then can we spot what's

0:40:32.239 --> 0:40:34.920
<v Speaker 1>happening and we can do our best to shut down

0:40:35.440 --> 0:40:39.000
<v Speaker 1>abuses of the system and make informed decisions based on

0:40:39.040 --> 0:40:43.480
<v Speaker 1>real information and maybe remember that we're all human beings

0:40:43.560 --> 0:40:47.200
<v Speaker 1>in the process. Uh. It's a big request, but I

0:40:47.239 --> 0:40:51.040
<v Speaker 1>think we could do it if we wanted to. That

0:40:51.120 --> 0:40:54.520
<v Speaker 1>wraps up this episode about echo chambers. In our next episode,

0:40:54.520 --> 0:40:58.239
<v Speaker 1>we will start our discussion about Cambridge Analytica and the

0:40:58.920 --> 0:41:02.759
<v Speaker 1>enormous mess that company found itself in. UH, if you

0:41:02.800 --> 0:41:05.759
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<v Speaker 1>me an email the addresses tech stuff at how stuff

0:41:08.480 --> 0:41:10.520
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<v Speaker 1>and thousands of other topics, is that how stuff works

0:41:35.840 --> 0:41:46.160
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