1 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, Thank you for pulling up a chair for 2 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: this week's table for two. Today we're back at Via 3 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: Carota in New York City's West Village. 4 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 2: This is so exciting. How are you? So glad to 5 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 2: see you too? 6 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 3: And a little early because my train came in. 7 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: I'm excited for today's interview because my guest is someone 8 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: I've never met. 9 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 4: She's had a career with many turns. 10 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: She became Miss America in nineteen eighty nine, graduated from 11 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: Stanford in nineteen ninety, and then became a broadcast journalist. 12 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 4: Most notably, she spent eleven. 13 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: Years at Fox News before leaving, ensuing then Fox News 14 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,599 Speaker 1: chairman and CEO Roger Ales. 15 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:46,480 Speaker 4: For sexual harassment. 16 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 1: It would prove to be the first domino that led 17 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: to his legendary downfall. Now, our guest runs an impressive 18 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: nonprofit called Lift Our Voices Rose. 19 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 2: That's beautiful, sure, thanks, total pleasure. 20 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 3: Thank you. 21 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: She's smart, determined, and last year the United States Congress 22 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: passed a law that she championed. 23 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 4: A huge feat during these divided times. 24 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 1: So pull up a chair and grab a glass of rose, 25 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: because today we're having lunch with Gretchen Carlson. I'm Bruce Bosi, 26 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: and this is my podcast Table for two. 27 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 2: Welcome Gretchen. Thank you for joining me today for lunch. 28 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 5: Well, thank you for having me. And I love our 29 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 5: little setting here. It is so beautiful. I feel like 30 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 5: I'm on like in Broadway or something. We're like going 31 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:45,680 Speaker 5: to launch intos. 32 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: On it is right, it's like exactly. It feels like 33 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: we could be like and damn action. You know, where 34 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: do I begin with, Gretchen, Let's maybe just start with 35 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: lift our Voices, which this has been a mission of yours, 36 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: and if you could explain the mission, and then also 37 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,799 Speaker 1: what Biden signed in, because I think it's a very 38 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: it's a big deal. 39 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, well it really is. 40 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 5: Well, first of all, let me just say thank you 41 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 5: for having this conversation with me. It's really important to 42 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 5: get this information out to people because. 43 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 3: When they go to work every day, they have no 44 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:21,800 Speaker 3: idea what they're. 45 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 5: Signing in their contracts, and so it's sort of a 46 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 5: wake up call for everyone to be able to have 47 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 5: a better understanding of that. And also I would just 48 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 5: add that I never expected to be doing this. 49 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 3: I mean no, I mean I grew up in a. 50 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 5: Small town in Minnesota and my life has just worked 51 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 5: in really incredibly mysterious ways. You know, I was a 52 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 5: prodigy on the violin as a child, and then I 53 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 5: was Miss America. 54 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 3: It's like what. 55 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 5: And then I studied at Stamford and Oxford, and then 56 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 5: I was going to be a lawyer, and then I 57 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 5: ended up in television, and then I ended up at 58 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 5: Fox News with my dream job and unfortunately behind the 59 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 5: scenes the horrors of harassment that was going on at 60 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 5: the same time. So did I ever expect that I 61 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 5: would take a horrible thing that happened to me and 62 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 5: turn it into something really positive for millions of people 63 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 5: that I'll never meet. 64 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 6: You know. 65 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:13,359 Speaker 5: That's the beauty of this that I'm helping so many 66 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 5: people that probably don't even know my name, you know, 67 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 5: but they're gonna be They're gonna benefit from the laws 68 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 5: that I've been working on to pass. So, you know, 69 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 5: after I jumped off the cliff by myself ensuing Ladri 70 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 5: Rail's the CEO and chairman formerly a Fox News six 71 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 5: and a half years ago. Now, no, no, Sometimes it 72 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 5: feels like yesterday, and then sometimes it feels like a. 73 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 4: Long time ago. 74 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: That strength that you did that day to jump off alone, 75 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: that's a big deal, Like when was it? Just like 76 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: I'm done? Like what was that break? You know we 77 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 1: all have those moments. 78 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 5: Yeah, I always say that building, the kind of courage 79 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 5: that it took for me to do that wasn't a 80 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 5: moment like that. 81 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 3: It was years of building. 82 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 2: You know. 83 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 5: I always give the analogy of when you walk into 84 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 5: a room and flip on the light switch. 85 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 3: It's not that easy, you know. It was like this. 86 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 5: Year's long, you know, really tough decision, biggest decision of 87 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 5: my life, and mainly because I have two children and 88 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 5: I didn't want them to face any scrutiny over their 89 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 5: mom becoming the story. A journalist is never supposed to 90 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 5: become the story. And then just you know, my husband too, 91 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 5: is kind of an uncomfortable situation and I'm not sure 92 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 5: he wanted to be in the limelight for these issues. 93 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 5: And truth be told, my parents, who I'm still blessed 94 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 5: to have in my life, you know, I really wanted 95 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 5: their approval. No matter how old you are, you always 96 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 5: want your parents to be like, hey, I'm with you exactly, 97 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,039 Speaker 5: and you know, up until a certain point they weren't. Because, 98 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 5: as I said, I grew up in small town Minnesota. 99 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,720 Speaker 5: People don't sue each other in Minnesota, like everyone's really nice, 100 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 5: and so finally they understood that I really had no 101 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 5: other choice, and we. 102 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 3: Had a very emotional conversation on the phone, and that was. 103 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:56,919 Speaker 5: Sort of what got me to that place where I 104 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 5: was looking over the cliff. 105 00:04:58,279 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 3: And then what made me. 106 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 5: Jump it was that I was fired from my job that, 107 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 5: you know, a career that I had killed myself for 108 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 5: a thirty year career. 109 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 3: I had reached the pinnacle of it. 110 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 5: I was hosting the number one morning show on cable 111 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 5: television U and they took that away from me, and 112 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 5: it was totally unjustified. And I decided, if I don't 113 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 5: stand up and tell the truth right now, who who will? 114 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 5: And I had no idea, Bruce, how this was gonna 115 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 5: play out. Like I thought, I was going to be 116 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,160 Speaker 5: at home crying my eyes out every day because I 117 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 5: had lost my job, and you know, people were going 118 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 5: to malign me and say that I wasn't telling the truth, 119 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 5: and you know, a lot of that did happen. But 120 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 5: then things started moving swiftly in the right direction, and 121 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 5: I started to realize when I had to travel and 122 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 5: go to the airport and flight attendants would take my 123 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 5: hand and they would have tears in their eyes and 124 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 5: they'd say thank you. You know, I started realizing that me, 125 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 5: maybe this would turn out okay. And a good friend 126 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 5: of mine at the time said to me two things, Gretchen, 127 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 5: you were always supposed to be doing this work in 128 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 5: your life, and. 129 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:10,600 Speaker 3: Something good will come of this. 130 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 5: And I was like, hmm, not feeling that exactly right now, 131 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 5: but you know now, I've remembered that in recent years, and. 132 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 3: She was so right. 133 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 5: And so what propelled me to start doing the work 134 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,119 Speaker 5: was that I started hearing from so many other women 135 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 5: across our country and men who had faced similar circumstances 136 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 5: and had been silenced and had been pushed out of 137 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 5: their careers for doing nothing wrong. 138 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 3: Nothing, And I decided I had to do something about it. 139 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 5: And so I've always been I grew up a Gatzi kid, 140 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 5: and you know, I'm a really hard worker, and so I. 141 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 3: Just decided to roll up my sleeves and get to work. 142 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. 143 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 5: Yeah, So after I started getting to work, walking the 144 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 5: halls of Congress to try and change some laws around 145 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 5: these silencing mechanisms that are in people's contracts at work 146 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 5: or even in the handbook, or many times they have 147 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 5: no idea. They're even clicking on an email and agreeing 148 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:03,840 Speaker 5: to be in silence. 149 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 3: You have no idea. 150 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 5: And so I started working with groups that had been 151 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 5: doing this for a long time. But it was sort 152 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 5: of a perfect storm because they really needed a more 153 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 5: well known person to join the fight, and I needed 154 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 5: all of their expertise that you know, with all the 155 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 5: history of everything. So we joined together and just really 156 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 5: started making headway. We got bipartisan support, which during this 157 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 5: hyper political time that we live in was like unheard 158 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 5: of completely, and so we found enough of what Republicans 159 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 5: and Democrats could hopefully agree on, and then Lift Our 160 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 5: Voices really came out of that because I decided, well, 161 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 5: I really should have an umbrella nonprofit organization to house 162 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 5: all of the work that I'm doing. And so three 163 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 5: years ago we formed Lift Our Voices and launched it 164 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 5: out in California, and we've had just amazing short term success. 165 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 3: Yeah. So in twenty twenty two. 166 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:02,679 Speaker 5: We passed two federal bipartisan bills into law. 167 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 3: I know, it's crazy. 168 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 5: So within a span of eight months, we passed two 169 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 5: of the biggest labor law changes in the last one 170 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 5: hundred years. Yeah, so hopefully our work will be remembered, 171 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 5: but we have a lot more work to do now. 172 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 5: These bills only deal with harassment and assault in the 173 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 5: workplace and these silencing mechanisms, so people know what NDAs 174 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 5: are for the most part, right non disclosure agreements. Our 175 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 5: most recent bill that the President signed on December seventh, 176 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 5: means that you can no longer silence people with NDAs 177 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 5: for harassment and assault predispute, meaning if you sign one 178 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 5: on your first day of work up until you file 179 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,559 Speaker 5: a claim. Just to explain these things a little bit, 180 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 5: because the work is a little wonky. People just don't 181 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 5: understand these things. And it's workers, millions workers, three hundred 182 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 5: million workers. I mean, they have no clue what they're 183 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 5: signing on their first day of work. 184 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 3: Myself included, yeah, you know, I happy to get the job. Yeah, 185 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 3: you're just happy to get the job. 186 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 5: It's like, are you going to say on the first day, Hey, 187 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 5: if something bad happens to happen to me in the 188 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 5: next six years, I want to be able to. 189 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 3: Talk about it. 190 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 2: Right. 191 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 5: People don't think about that. They're just happy to get 192 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 5: a paycheck. Of course, So I actually had an NDA, 193 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 5: and the second thing that I've been battling called a 194 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 5: forced arbitration clause. At Fox, they put a forced arbitration 195 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 5: clause in my last contract. 196 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 2: Forced arbitration. So explain that. 197 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 5: Okay, So what that means is, first of all, the 198 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 5: operative word is forced. 199 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:38,959 Speaker 3: You don't have a choice. 200 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 5: Yeah, you are forced to go to arbitration, which is 201 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 5: a secret chamber with an arbitrator, instead of being able 202 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 5: to file a public lawsuit and go to a jury 203 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 5: of your peers, which is your constitutional right. 204 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 3: So people have no clue. 205 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 5: I asked questions because I had signed a tremendous amount 206 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 5: of contract throughout my career and I'm a stickler for detail, 207 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 5: and so I asked my agent, you know, and I 208 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 5: asked my lawyers, and I'm like, what is this clause? 209 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 5: And unfortunately they said, don't worry about it. It's becoming 210 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 5: the way of the world. 211 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 3: And they're right. 212 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 5: By twenty twenty four, eighty four percent of all American 213 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:22,079 Speaker 5: workers will sign forced arbitration clauses on their first day 214 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 5: of work and they won't even understand what it is, don't. 215 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,839 Speaker 5: I had no idea what it was when I decided 216 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 5: to file my lawsuit, and I assembled my lawyers. They 217 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 5: looked at my contract and then they looked at me 218 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 5: and said, we got some really bad news for you. 219 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 3: And I said what, And they. 220 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 5: Said, you have a forced arbitration clause means we can't 221 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 5: sue Fox News. You have to go over here to 222 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 5: this secret chamber called arbitration, and no one's ever going 223 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:51,359 Speaker 5: to hear from you because it's secret. There are no appeals. 224 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,199 Speaker 5: The arbitrator makes the decision. They usually find in favor 225 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 5: of the company because they come back for repeat business. 226 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 5: But you only have one claim, sure right, and only 227 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 5: two percent of the time does the employee actually win. 228 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,679 Speaker 3: So lawyers pretty much don't take the cases. 229 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 5: And this is how the vicious cycle of silence and 230 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 5: horrible things happening at work has continued over the last 231 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 5: three or four decades, is because these cases just go 232 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 5: off into the ether somewhere and nobody ever hears from 233 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 5: these people ever again. And these were the really tragic 234 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 5: stories I was hearing from people who had reached out 235 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:25,719 Speaker 5: to me. 236 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 3: It was so eerily similar. 237 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 5: They all had arbitration clauses, they all had been silenced, 238 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 5: they all didn't win anything, and they all never worked again, 239 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 5: they never worked in and the predator gets off scott 240 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 5: free because nobody knows this. 241 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 3: Process has happened, because it's secret. What's right with any 242 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 3: of what I just said? 243 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 2: It's really dark. 244 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:48,199 Speaker 4: No, So that's. 245 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 5: Why I sued Roger Ayles personally to try to circumvent 246 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 5: the arbitration clause. And that's the only way my case 247 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 5: became public. We wouldn't be having this conversation right now 248 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 5: if my lawyers wouldn't have been able to think about that. 249 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 7: Right. 250 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:13,680 Speaker 1: You know, when you said, oh, I'm gonna shoe als, 251 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: is that when the women that you were sitting in 252 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: the room with said, okay, we were with you on this. 253 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 5: You mean other people that I work because I couldn't 254 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 5: tell anyone else because I had an NDA. The second 255 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 5: the second evil course, because there's two ways they silence 256 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 5: you to make sure that nothing ever gets out. They 257 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 5: make sure you have to go to force starbitration. If 258 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 5: you decide to come forward and you go to HR 259 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 5: thinking you're doing the right thing, right right, it is 260 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 5: not your friend. 261 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 3: Let's be clear. They work for the company. 262 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 5: They've done a marvelous marketing job on making people feel 263 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 5: like you can go tell. 264 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 3: Them anything and they'll help you. 265 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 5: There's probably tons of great people that work there, you know, 266 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 5: in HR, but they're not your friend. 267 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 3: If you have a force starbitration clause and you go 268 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,559 Speaker 3: to complain, they go, no one will ever know about this, Yeah, 269 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 3: and they immediately try to figure out how to get 270 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 3: rid of you. 271 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 5: But you probably also have signed an NDA on your 272 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 5: first day, which means that you can't go and warn 273 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 5: anyone else at work about what's happening to you. And 274 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 5: so in my personal experience, or let me talk hypothetically, 275 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:21,439 Speaker 5: because I do have an NDA, so I can't get 276 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 5: into the details, So I always do mental gymnastics when 277 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 5: I'm giving doing interviews, like what can I say? 278 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:28,079 Speaker 3: What can I do? 279 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 5: And not get in trouble? Hypothetically. If you have an 280 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 5: NDA like that, you can't You can't warn anyone else. 281 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 5: You can't you can't even really tell your husband. 282 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 3: Or your children what's happening to you at work. Isn't 283 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 3: that crazy? 284 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 2: That's crazy? 285 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 5: Or the company can sue you then for breaking the NDA, 286 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:54,199 Speaker 5: even though you were being treated illegally at work. 287 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 2: You can't go home after a bad day and. 288 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 5: Say, ostensibly you're not supposed to say anything, honey, this 289 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 5: happened to me. And this includes also not being able 290 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 5: to talk about your pay or not be any kinds 291 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 5: of other forms of discrimination. Yeah, and so this is 292 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 5: really how, unfortunately, companies have been able to cover up 293 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 5: their dirty laundry. And I really I peg it back 294 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 5: to I'll date myself here, but I think you and 295 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 5: I are on the same age. 296 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 2: You're way younger. 297 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 3: No, no, no no. 298 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 5: My first job in television, one of the first stories 299 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 5: I covered was the Anita Hill hearings on Capitol Hill 300 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 5: when she came forward about being sexually harassed by. 301 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 3: France Thomas, who's now on the Supreme Court. 302 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 5: And I remember, you know, watching that intently and wondering 303 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 5: why the hell nobody believed her button they didn't. And 304 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 5: I think what happened then is that companies realized that 305 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 5: they had to start being more proactive about providing sexual 306 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 5: harassment training. 307 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 3: And you know, because this was the talk. Now everyone 308 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 3: was talking about sexual harassment. But they also I. 309 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 5: Believe that we can't have an Anita Hill at our workplace. 310 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 3: We have to figure out how to cover this. 311 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: Ship up, right, Okay, So now once you shoot Roger, 312 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: now that's public. So now you're not saying anything. So 313 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: the people you work with now now because you've been fired. 314 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 5: Well, they didn't know I was fired, So so I 315 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 5: was fired. And then and then I surprised Fox by 316 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 5: filing the lawsuit instead of having like a joint statement 317 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 5: that said why I was leaving. 318 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 1: Right, oh right, yeah, which of course is what they want. 319 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 5: Yes, yes, So instead, you know, I had already been 320 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 5: planning this quite honestly, my legal team didn't expect me 321 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 5: to be fired because hypothetically that kind of always works 322 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 5: in favor of the person, right, because why were you fired? 323 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 5: Like yeah, So but then we worked very quickly and 324 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 5: so within it was right around over the fourth of. 325 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 3: July holidays, so there are a few hiccups. 326 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 5: But we filed a lawsuit on July sixth, twenty sixteen, 327 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 5: and I was fired on June twenty third, but it 328 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 5: wasn't public god, so then it became public with my lawsuit. 329 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 5: But another thing that happened on the first day that 330 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 5: we never expected was that. 331 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 3: News Corp. 332 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 5: The parent company of Fox News, decided to conduct an 333 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 5: internal investigation based on my claims, which that was a 334 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 5: huge surprise to us. We never expected them to take 335 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 5: it that seriously, right, So that's good. Yes, they were, 336 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 5: you know, they were standing by their employees, but they 337 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 5: were also saying that, you know, we should pay attention 338 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 5: to what she's alleging. And that's when and other women 339 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 5: then came forward. I would say they probably told twenty 340 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 5: percent of the truth and that was enough. And so 341 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 5: within two weeks, Roger Eils was fired, which is unbelievable. 342 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:21,199 Speaker 5: I never ever expected that to happen, ever, and so 343 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 5: you know, again it every day of my life since 344 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 5: has been surreal. But I just sort of have taken 345 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 5: it as it's come, and I hope people are proud 346 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 5: of the work that I've done since to try and 347 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 5: make workplaces safer. 348 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 4: Thanks for joining on table for two. 349 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: Gretchen Carlson has been telling us about her departure from 350 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: Fox News in the resulting lawsuits she filed against chairman 351 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: and CEO Roger Ayls, a move that sparked many other 352 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 1: women at the news organization to come. 353 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 4: Forward with stories of their own. 354 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: Gretchen had been with Fox News for over a decade, 355 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 1: and I'm wondering what was it like to endure inappropriate 356 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: behavior for so long? So okay, so that happens, and 357 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: now you're left to sort of reinvent Gretchen yet again. 358 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, so here you are. 359 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: You're a brilliant, smart human, and like you have to 360 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: subjugate yourself even when you were there, because they wanted 361 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: you to look a certain way, act a certain way. 362 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: You certainly your coworkers are saying things on air that 363 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: were inappropriate. I know there were a couple of times 364 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 1: where you're like, you walked off, but you know you 365 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 1: wanted to work. 366 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 2: This was your job, You've been really, this is your passion. 367 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:53,680 Speaker 3: It was a delicate balance. 368 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 5: Again, I can't get into the nitty gritty of everything 369 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 5: because of the NDAs that I've signed, but I will 370 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 5: just say that I I did lead several silent protests 371 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 5: and some that were more public, like when I walked 372 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 5: off the set three weeks before I got fired. I 373 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,959 Speaker 5: came out in favor of banning the assault weapon ban, 374 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:14,679 Speaker 5: and then I actually did a poll at the end 375 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,920 Speaker 5: of my show with my viewers at Fox to see 376 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:21,679 Speaker 5: how many of them agreed with me. Ninety seven percent 377 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 5: disagreed with me, which I knew that was going to happen, 378 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 5: but that's how I felt, very strongly that we shouldn't 379 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 5: that assault weapons bans. 380 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,640 Speaker 3: The assault weapons have no place in our society. 381 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 5: So when I got fired and my story came out, 382 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 5: some people actually thought I got fired for saying that. 383 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,439 Speaker 5: Of course, so I point that out because it was 384 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 5: a very delicate balance of how much I could protest. 385 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:49,679 Speaker 5: While I was actually there, there was a tremendous amount 386 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:50,119 Speaker 5: of fear. 387 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 2: What did you love about that job? 388 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:52,959 Speaker 3: Oh? 389 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 5: What I loved about it was, in fact, my mom 390 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 5: said to me on the you know, keep in mind 391 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 5: when I went over to Fox, it's already been now 392 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 5: seventeen years ago. It was a different Fox than it 393 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 5: is today. I had been working at CBS News and 394 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 5: I was doing as a correspondent, international correspondent, and then 395 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 5: I also hosted the Saturday early show, and I had 396 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 5: just had two babies, they were both infants, and Fox 397 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 5: came calling and said, we'd love you to do a 398 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:19,360 Speaker 5: morning show five days a week. Well, that had been 399 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 5: my ultimate goal, to be able to do it, you know, 400 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 5: five days a week instead. 401 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 3: Of just one. And so I jumped at the opportunity. 402 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 5: And my mom happened to be in New York City 403 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 5: on my first day of that job, and She said 404 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:32,120 Speaker 5: to me afterwards, this must be one. 405 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 3: Of the happiest days of your life. And I said, yeah. 406 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 5: I mean I had no idea what was about to come, right, 407 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 5: But I went fully for the job opportunity and something 408 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 5: that I had, you know, worked so many different cities 409 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 5: and markets in television, you know, paying my dues to 410 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 5: get to that point. Yeah, And so it was strictly. 411 00:20:54,960 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: Just this was a big opportunity. This was and though 412 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:05,919 Speaker 1: there had been instances prior of just being in situations 413 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 1: that were not appropriate, I ran. 414 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 5: I was assaulted twice. At the end of my year 415 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,200 Speaker 5: as Miss America. I was just twenty two years old. 416 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 5: And actually it was because of my drive to try 417 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 5: and get ahead in the TV business, you know, and 418 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 5: strike when the iron's hot, because being Miss America is 419 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 5: this weird sort of phenomenon where you're a celebrity for 420 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 5: a year and then somebody else. 421 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:32,440 Speaker 3: Comes along and they're the new Miss America and you're toast. 422 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 3: It's like. 423 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 5: In fact, a very close friend of mine, who was 424 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 5: also a firm Miss America, said she actually overheard a 425 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 5: kid saying when she gave up her crown, he said, 426 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 5: there goes the old one, and it's such a true assessment. 427 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 5: And so because I had always been so driven and 428 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 5: a hard worker, I knew, like, while I'm actually Miss America, 429 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 5: I have to start knocking on doors and talking to 430 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 5: agents and figuring out if I really want to do 431 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,160 Speaker 5: this TV thing, how am I gonna do this? And 432 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 5: so I was meeting with a really high level executive 433 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 5: in New York City and he spent almost the whole 434 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:09,400 Speaker 5: day with me, made a bunch of. 435 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 3: Calls for me, and I thought, wow, he must. 436 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 5: Really admire my smarts, you know, and my tenacity. And 437 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 5: so we go to dinner, and then we're in the 438 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 5: back seat of a car and he's dropping me off 439 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 5: at my college roommate's apartment, and all of a sudden 440 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 5: he was on top of me in the back seat, 441 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 5: this tunn down my throat and a bunch of other stuff, 442 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 5: and I somehow got away from him and Beryl out 443 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 5: of the car and. 444 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 3: Just immediately like burst into tears. 445 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 5: But told nobody because I think when whether you're a 446 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:43,439 Speaker 5: manner of woman, you feel so much shaming, unfortunately, and 447 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 5: that's the way that we've socialized these issues. And so 448 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 5: I never told anyone about that experience, and one that 449 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,440 Speaker 5: happened three weeks later. Unfortunately as well, until I wrote 450 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 5: my memoir twenty five years later. And it wasn't until 451 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 5: I was come forward about my Fox experience, and I 452 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 5: was writing my second book, Be Fierce, and I was 453 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,399 Speaker 5: talking to one of the Trump survivors and I was 454 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 5: telling her these stories and she said, Gretchen, those were assault, 455 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,640 Speaker 5: And I said, you know, they weren't. She goes, yes, 456 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 5: And it's so horrible about how we don't even allow 457 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:22,360 Speaker 5: our own selves to believe the truths, because we've been 458 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 5: taught to just shove it down to someplace where you 459 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 5: never ever think about it ever again, and not really 460 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 5: call it what it was and come up with some 461 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 5: reason why you deserved it or you know. So that 462 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 5: was really eye opening for me, even after everything I 463 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,119 Speaker 5: had been through and coming forward about Fox, that I 464 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 5: still wasn't even being honest with myself. 465 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: Did you think that the me too, I mean, the 466 00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: me too explosion? 467 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 2: Were you surprised by that? 468 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:01,639 Speaker 1: Were you? 469 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 2: How did that feel? 470 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 3: Yeah? 471 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 5: So my story was a full fifteen months before the 472 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 5: Harvey Weinstein revelations. 473 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,680 Speaker 3: So that's technically when people say me too. 474 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:16,160 Speaker 5: Started right, and then there are certainly other women who 475 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 5: came before me, But I guess people would would peg 476 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:24,479 Speaker 5: my very public story as the latest iteration of this movement. 477 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 2: Right. 478 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 5: But I have to tell you that every time another 479 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 5: big story would come out, I was, on the one hand, 480 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 5: not surprised but also shocked that there was going to 481 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:37,199 Speaker 5: be accountability. 482 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 3: That's what I was surprised about, the accountability, And you 483 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 3: could see change swiftly. 484 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 5: So like, for example, with my story, they still paid 485 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 5: Roger Ale's a forty million dollar parachute, right, even though 486 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,400 Speaker 5: they could have fired obviously. 487 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:50,879 Speaker 3: Fired him for cause. 488 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 5: But when you got to Matt Lauer and his story, 489 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 5: they they were not paying out anything. 490 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 3: When you got to less this. 491 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 5: Story, they donated his parachute to women's groups. 492 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:04,400 Speaker 2: Right. 493 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 5: That all happened in a very short period of time, 494 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 5: So you started seeing immense progress with how we handled 495 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 5: these types of things. But still every time I'll never 496 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 5: forget when Bill O'Reilly fell down, I emblematically was by 497 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 5: myself at home. 498 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 3: I always seemed to be by myself for these. 499 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 5: Big moments, and I saw it come across the TV, 500 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 5: and I was still shocked because I had worked there, 501 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 5: never thought i'd see that day and a friend of 502 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 5: mine called me and it was a guy and he said, Gretchen, 503 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 5: I said, because are you watching and I said yes, yes. 504 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,400 Speaker 3: And then I just started sobbing and he. 505 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 5: Said, Gretchen, you did this, you did this, And I 506 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 5: was like, I can't tunt you right now, you know, 507 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 5: So every That's the surprise part of it that I'm 508 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 5: talking about is I never thought we would see this 509 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 5: unbelievable firestorm of other people being held accountable simply because 510 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 5: you know, some people had a few brave actions and 511 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 5: the me too movement. What really I think made that explode. 512 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 3: Was social media. 513 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:20,440 Speaker 5: You know, as much as I don't love it for 514 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 5: my kids, social media allowed people to come forward with 515 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 5: their name and face or anonymously, right, and it just 516 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:33,919 Speaker 5: exploded globally. Also, the media started paying attention to these stories. 517 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 5: And as a member of the media, I can criticize 518 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 5: us by saying that had I pitched a harassment story 519 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 5: six and a half years ago, nobody in the newsroom 520 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 5: would have wanted to cover it. We just didn't cover 521 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,199 Speaker 5: that kind of stuff. So the media started covering the stories, 522 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 5: which was really important, and the American public became engaged 523 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 5: and they were like, how the hell is this still 524 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 5: happening at work? 525 00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:00,159 Speaker 3: I thought we had solved this. But the reason they 526 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 3: thought we. 527 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,920 Speaker 5: Had solved it was because all the cases were going 528 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 5: to secrecy ration. 529 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 3: They're going to forst arbitration, so you were never hearing 530 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 3: about them. 531 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 2: The sixties were done, the mad Man arrow was done. 532 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, right, no. 533 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 5: And let me also point out that my efforts at 534 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 5: lift our voices are not just about harassment and assault. 535 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 5: I'm fighting for every marginalized group. So our next fight 536 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:27,120 Speaker 5: with legislation is for all forms of discrimination, whether it's race, 537 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 5: LGBTQ plus, whether it's age, disability. 538 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,360 Speaker 3: We're not done for a long time until we make. 539 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,680 Speaker 5: Sure that all of those groups are not silenced as well. 540 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 5: And imagine the dynamic now at works since we've passed 541 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 5: these two bills. If you're harassed or assaulted, you don't 542 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 5: have to go to the secret chamber anymore, right, But 543 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 5: if you're black and you're discriminated against, you do how 544 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 5: do you think that's going to play out at work? 545 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 2: Really? 546 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 5: Because the federal law only says that if you're harassed 547 00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:58,640 Speaker 5: or assaulted, you don't. 548 00:27:58,359 --> 00:27:59,880 Speaker 3: Have to go to arbitration anymore. 549 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 5: So we think organically that other groups are going to 550 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 5: wake up to this. We hope and say what about me? 551 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,439 Speaker 5: And I just want to ruin to know I'm fighting 552 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 5: for you and I'm doing the best I can. We 553 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 5: could only get this much done on the hill to 554 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:20,360 Speaker 5: get both parties. 555 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 3: To come together. 556 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: Really welcome back to table for two. Gretchen's nonprofit Lift 557 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 1: Our Voices has made a real legislative change by champion 558 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 1: an ending Forced Arbitration of Sexual Assault and Sexual Harassment Act, 559 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: which President Biden signed into law last year. Still, advocacy 560 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 1: work is full of ten to uphill battles. 561 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 4: How does Gretchen keep the momentum going? 562 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 5: I always say in in the advocacy work that I 563 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 5: do now, you have to wake up every day optimistic 564 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 5: because you can't be pessimistic about anything. You're gonna have 565 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 5: a lot of downtime and a lot of downturns and 566 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 5: a lot of no's, But you have to just keep 567 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 5: pushing forward. And so you know, I'm not necessarily incredibly 568 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 5: optimistic about getting more federal bills passed into law now 569 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 5: with the new makeup of Congress. Sure, but we are 570 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 5: active working at the state level, which is having dramatic 571 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 5: impact as well. So your listeners should know that if 572 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 5: they live in New Jersey, California, or Washington State, they 573 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 5: cannot be forced to sign an NDA for anything bad 574 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 5: that happens to them. 575 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 2: That's that's headline news. 576 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 3: Yes, right, you cannot. 577 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 5: So our organization has been instrumental in getting those bills passed. 578 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 5: So only an NDA for trade secrets, right, So every 579 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 5: business should be able to protect their trade secrets, but 580 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 5: you cannot force anyone to sign an NDA for anything 581 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 5: bad that happens to the network right in those states, 582 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 5: And that's that's huge, and it's had a ripple effects 583 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 5: some global companies like Microsoft, for example, they're based in 584 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 5: Washington State, and they thought to themselves, Hm, should we 585 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 5: treat our employees in Washington State different than anyone else 586 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 5: in the world, right, because we're gonna still bind our 587 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 5: people to NDAs in Iowa, for example, right, but not 588 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 5: in Washington State. 589 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 3: So they decided globally to get rid of NDAs. Wow, 590 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 3: which is exactly what we wanted to happen. 591 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 2: Yeah right, wow. 592 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 5: So even though we may not have a lot of 593 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 5: federal victories this year, we're having a lot of state 594 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 5: victories that still has dramatic impact on changing the workplace. 595 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 3: So we're we're kind of working all sides of it. 596 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 1: This generation that is coming into itself, as the other 597 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 1: older generation is going to be passing and going into 598 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: the next will eventually get to this magical place. 599 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 5: It's such a great point, Bruce, because part of our 600 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 5: efforts that lift our voices is also to educate the 601 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 5: younger people so that when they become the next CEOs 602 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 5: and general counsel they don't use these clauses and they 603 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 5: understand how detrimental. 604 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 3: Another really important point should I should say is that. 605 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 5: These clauses push out the exact people that companies want 606 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 5: to retain, women and people of color and diversity, right, 607 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 5: all forms of diversity, and every study has shown that 608 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 5: you increase your bottom. 609 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 3: Line when you have a more diverse workplace. 610 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 5: So that's our pitch to companies when we try to 611 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 5: get them on board to get rid of these clauses. 612 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 3: We say, even if. 613 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,479 Speaker 5: You only care about the bottom line, you should get 614 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 5: rid of these clauses because you're pushing out tons of 615 00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 5: people that you. 616 00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 3: Want to stay. 617 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 5: And so that's really important and getting to our young people. 618 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 5: My kids have witnessed, you know, everything that happened to 619 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 5: me over the last six and a half years. 620 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 3: And while I said I was very. 621 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 5: Concerned about their well being, It's worked out like the 622 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 5: best that it possibly could because I've seen my courage 623 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 5: transfer to them. 624 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, and especially for my son. 625 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 5: You know, we spend a lot of time saying that 626 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 5: we need to rise girls up and make them empowered 627 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 5: to know that they can be anything they want to be. 628 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 3: But what I've learned is we really need to focus 629 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 3: on our sons. Yes, because I mean. 630 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 5: Most Fortune five hundred companies are run by men still, 631 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 5: and so we need to get to them early on 632 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 5: to respect women and all of the diverse groups so 633 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 5: that they treat them fairly. 634 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 3: And I have seen that. 635 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 5: In my son where I was on a CNN show 636 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 5: a couple of years back, and I came home and 637 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 5: he was waiting for me in the kitchen and he said, Mommy, 638 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 5: He said, was it true what that other woman said 639 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 5: that once every seventy three seconds in our country that 640 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 5: a woman is a were harassed. And I said, I'm 641 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 5: so sorry to tell you that that's true, And he said, 642 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 5: mom He said, as a twelve year old boy, I 643 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 5: want to. 644 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 3: Help fix that. 645 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. 646 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 5: Wow, Yeah, I was like, okay, full stop, work done, 647 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 5: dropped the mic, right, yeah, right completely, I don't have 648 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 5: to do if that's all I've accomplished, right is getting 649 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 5: to this boy, right. 650 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 3: And hopefully he'll pass it on. 651 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,720 Speaker 5: So it made me realize from that point that I 652 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 5: should be spending all my time at boys schools. 653 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 7: Yeah. 654 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 1: You talked earlier about and I have it here your 655 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: memoir getting real. You know, writing a memoir is a 656 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 1: really intense experience I can imagine. And was there anything 657 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 1: in that journey of writing your memoir that you learned 658 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 1: that you didn't need even know about yourself that you thought, Oh, 659 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 1: it was really difficult for you to actually put on 660 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:11,360 Speaker 1: paper and know that your parents were going to see this, 661 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 1: and you know your you know, I always find like memoirs, 662 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,360 Speaker 1: so yeah, well I love them. 663 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 5: Like certain relationships, right, yeah, that my parents didn't like, 664 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:20,400 Speaker 5: right Yeah. 665 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:20,720 Speaker 3: Sure. 666 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,840 Speaker 5: I Also I would just say that we chatted earlier 667 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 5: about the sexual assaults that I went through. I knew 668 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:29,719 Speaker 5: they were going to see that, right, I knew the 669 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:31,799 Speaker 5: whole world was going to see that, So that that 670 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:36,359 Speaker 5: was probably the biggest revelation. And also other experiences in 671 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,719 Speaker 5: my television career where I was harassed on the job too. 672 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 3: I had a lot of great years where I. 673 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 5: Wasn't but right in my first job, I was also 674 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 5: harassed and then in a scary situation, and then I 675 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 5: would just say that I think the greatest revelation for 676 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 5: me was realizing that. 677 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 3: It was totally fine to not be. 678 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 5: Perfect, and that one of my missions in life, besides 679 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,799 Speaker 5: changing the safety of the workplace, is to raise our 680 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,920 Speaker 5: girls to not be perfect, because we put this huge 681 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:13,359 Speaker 5: curse on them to be smart, to succeed, to run 682 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 5: a family, and to do all the domestic work and 683 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:17,759 Speaker 5: work full time and have it all. 684 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,280 Speaker 3: Remember that phrase, have it all. That's such a demon. 685 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:26,640 Speaker 5: And I call myself now a reformed perfectionist. And I 686 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 5: tried to do it when I was forty and I 687 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 5: didn't succeed, and I've now accomplished it. I definitely I 688 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 5: work on it every day. But it's really important to 689 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:39,360 Speaker 5: send a message to especially women, that you're not expected 690 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 5: to have. 691 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 3: It all, and it's okay to color outside of the lines. 692 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 5: It's okay to f up and you and pick yourself up. 693 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:49,799 Speaker 3: And we teach our boys to skin their knees. 694 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,880 Speaker 5: And jump off of the fence and be rowdy and 695 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,360 Speaker 5: all that and take risks, and we tell our girls 696 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 5: to put bows in their hair and sit over in 697 00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 5: the corner and play with dolls. 698 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 3: Like what how are we ever seeing? Is believing? 699 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,399 Speaker 5: So like we have to start changing the way that 700 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 5: we mold our girls into being these perfect little creatures. 701 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 5: And I'll never forget my daughter when she was two, 702 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,239 Speaker 5: she colored outside of the lines. And she took the 703 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 5: paper and she crunched it up and she threw it 704 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 5: into the trash and I said, oh no, I picked 705 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,359 Speaker 5: it up and I pulled it back out and I said, 706 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:25,080 Speaker 5: Mommy thinks this is beautiful, and I want you to 707 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,880 Speaker 5: color outside of the Lord's right. So, you know, I 708 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,920 Speaker 5: think I was being very vulnerable in the book by 709 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 5: actually just saying that I've I'm not perfect, and I've 710 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 5: made a tremendous amount of mistakes and I'm not going 711 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:42,760 Speaker 5: to hold myself to that perfectionism deeming anymore, nor should 712 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 5: anyone else. 713 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:55,800 Speaker 2: Right, you know, I watched Gretchen. 714 00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:00,399 Speaker 1: Something, so it came my way like years and years ago, 715 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:02,800 Speaker 1: and that show with Blooper. 716 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 2: All right, So if you're listening to this. 717 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:07,840 Speaker 1: Dick Clark and Ed McMahon has a show called like 718 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,040 Speaker 1: Bloopers and Blunders and Practical Jobical Jokes. 719 00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:12,080 Speaker 2: And I watched it. It was funny. 720 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:15,040 Speaker 1: Miriam Mobiley and Gary Collins, who actually I knew because 721 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 1: they were friends with my father's partner. So they played 722 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:21,640 Speaker 1: this practical joke on Gretchen where you're supposed to present 723 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 1: with them to a live like corporate event at this 724 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 1: new weird machine. 725 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,680 Speaker 3: It was a satellite machine for engineers. 726 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 1: For engineers, and then Gary Collins is like, oh, you 727 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 1: have a phone call Miriam Obile. They're like, oh you, 728 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,239 Speaker 1: Mike isn't working, and they leave you there too, and 729 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:40,839 Speaker 1: they played this joke which you handle beautifully. 730 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:43,000 Speaker 3: I thought they were going to fire me as Miss America. 731 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,239 Speaker 6: Well really, because I want to say I think it 732 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,360 Speaker 6: was mean. I think it was a mean show that 733 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 6: really at the end of the day, and even like 734 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,200 Speaker 6: when they have you press a button called double D FYI, 735 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,479 Speaker 6: Oh yeah, I was like, now am I hearing now? 736 00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,120 Speaker 6: And I'm sure at the time I didn't think of it, 737 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,160 Speaker 6: but you like to sue us this double D button. 738 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:02,640 Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, this is all long. 739 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,280 Speaker 5: Yes, well this was many years ago, not making excuses 740 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,120 Speaker 5: for it. But aside from what I did recently, those 741 00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 5: fourteen minutes of having to just add lib about a 742 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:13,440 Speaker 5: system I knew person nothing allowed. 743 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:16,759 Speaker 3: That was just sheer terror. 744 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 2: Yeah. 745 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,520 Speaker 5: And they had cue cards and they all were like 746 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:24,440 Speaker 5: fourteen letter scientific words, and then they were upside down 747 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 5: and then they dropped them right and I'm like, oh shit, 748 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,120 Speaker 5: like I'm trying to read off the ground, right, So 749 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,800 Speaker 5: I think that this is two weeks into being Miss. 750 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:34,840 Speaker 3: America, by the way, wow, and I'm like, they're going 751 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:36,120 Speaker 3: to fire me right right. 752 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:37,960 Speaker 5: I mean, first of all, I'm short, so I never 753 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:39,640 Speaker 5: felt like I lived up to the whole Miss America 754 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 5: thing because I'm this tiny little girl from Minnesota. Minnesota 755 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:45,680 Speaker 5: usually wasn't a pageant state. I played classical violin that 756 00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:47,480 Speaker 5: had never won, you know, So I was already facing 757 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 5: like a lot of insecurities. Then they do this horrendous 758 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,480 Speaker 5: thing and then it doesn't air for about six or 759 00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,560 Speaker 5: seven months. Okay, So I'm in my hotel room by 760 00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 5: myself because you spend that whole year on the road 761 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 5: and I have like the covers up over my years. 762 00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:04,600 Speaker 3: I'm embarrassed of myself, even though I'm the. 763 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:06,960 Speaker 5: Only person in the room and I watch it and 764 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,719 Speaker 5: I'm like, oh my god, this is the worst thing ever, 765 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:11,359 Speaker 5: even though they were complimentary. 766 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:12,640 Speaker 3: So you know what happened. 767 00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:17,359 Speaker 5: It's a great lesson about how seemingly bad experiences can 768 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:21,200 Speaker 5: turn into wonderful things. So a couple TV agents saw 769 00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 5: that and they called me after they found me, and 770 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,319 Speaker 5: they said, if you can do that, you can do TV. 771 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,319 Speaker 5: Have you ever thought about TV? That's what got me 772 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:30,799 Speaker 5: into TV? 773 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:31,400 Speaker 2: Really. 774 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:38,200 Speaker 7: Yeah. 775 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 1: Gretchen is brought to light so many of the ways 776 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 1: that big companies used legal means to prevent sexual harassment 777 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:50,680 Speaker 1: and assault survivors from coming forward. And as our lunch ends, 778 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,000 Speaker 1: she goes off to continue her work on behalf of Survivors. 779 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,880 Speaker 1: I'm curious what can we do to help her important 780 00:39:57,920 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 1: cause the. 781 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 5: More people that decide to come forward, the more we 782 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,120 Speaker 5: normalize this, and that the more that that you don't 783 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,480 Speaker 5: become the odd person out as having courage. It becomes 784 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:10,600 Speaker 5: just the new way of the world. 785 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:11,600 Speaker 3: And that's how. 786 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,719 Speaker 5: We work to change things when people have no other 787 00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:17,040 Speaker 5: choice other than to accept that this is how we're 788 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 5: going to handle this now. 789 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:20,640 Speaker 3: Through lift our voices. 790 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:24,399 Speaker 5: I continue to encourage companies to change their policies. This year, 791 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,240 Speaker 5: we're going to be coming out with a corporate rating 792 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,160 Speaker 5: system where we're actually going to break companies on whether 793 00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 5: or not they silence their people. We believe that all 794 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:33,960 Speaker 5: employees should know before they go to work whether they're 795 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:38,040 Speaker 5: going to a company that silences them. And we also 796 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,920 Speaker 5: think that it will nudge companies to. 797 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:41,480 Speaker 3: Do the right thing. 798 00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,200 Speaker 5: If they happen to get a bad grade for me, 799 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,880 Speaker 5: that they maybe will reevaluate how they're doing business. I 800 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:49,680 Speaker 5: always say, you know, the train has left the station. 801 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,960 Speaker 5: These movements aren't going to stop, So get on the 802 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,000 Speaker 5: right side of history before we force you to do it, 803 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:57,160 Speaker 5: you know, which leads me to We're still going to 804 00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:00,560 Speaker 5: be active with trying to pass new legis for other 805 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:04,920 Speaker 5: protected classes. We're going to be very active at the 806 00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:09,319 Speaker 5: state level. We're introducing new NBA legislation in New York 807 00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:10,480 Speaker 5: State coming up in. 808 00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:11,240 Speaker 3: The next few weeks. 809 00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:15,839 Speaker 5: And then just the continued education because people just don't 810 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:20,919 Speaker 5: understand these issues. And then you know, as far as 811 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:25,080 Speaker 5: I since my life has been so weird and mysterious 812 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:28,680 Speaker 5: different directions, I just leave myself open to any possible 813 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:30,240 Speaker 5: opportunity that comes my way. 814 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,959 Speaker 1: Well, Gretchen, thank you for joining me today. I'll table 815 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,120 Speaker 1: for two. Thank you for being an advocate. Thank you 816 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:42,440 Speaker 1: for being honest, for putting yourself on the line, for 817 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:47,359 Speaker 1: sharing really intimate you know things that you've experienced, and 818 00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:48,360 Speaker 1: it's an honor. 819 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,200 Speaker 2: It's a pleasure to have lunch with you. 820 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:54,040 Speaker 1: I hope to see and be a part of however 821 00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:58,000 Speaker 1: I can help making the world a better place with you. 822 00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:00,520 Speaker 5: Thank you so much, and thank you for allowing me 823 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:02,759 Speaker 5: to drink wine in the middle of our day. 824 00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:07,160 Speaker 1: It's such a lovely half a glass our finish shares 825 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:07,759 Speaker 1: when you're done. 826 00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,560 Speaker 5: I wanted to make sure that I that I stayed 827 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:12,840 Speaker 5: above board and all the important things that I'm talking 828 00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:13,760 Speaker 5: You're amazing. 829 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,560 Speaker 3: Now. If you want to go and have dinner sometorry. 830 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:17,040 Speaker 2: I'll let all right. 831 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,000 Speaker 1: Table for two with Bruce Bozzi is produced by iHeart 832 00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:32,320 Speaker 1: Radio seven three seven Park and Airmail. Our executive producers 833 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,080 Speaker 1: are Bruce Bosi and Nathan King. Table for two is 834 00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:39,319 Speaker 1: researched and written by Bridget Arsenalt. Our sound engineers are 835 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:43,120 Speaker 1: Paul Bowman and Alyssa Midcalf. Table for two's la production 836 00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:46,880 Speaker 1: team is Danielle Romo and Lorraine viz Our. 837 00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:48,520 Speaker 2: Music supervisor is Randall. 838 00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:51,120 Speaker 4: Poster Our Talent Booking is by James Harkin. 839 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:56,040 Speaker 1: Special thanks to Amy Sugarman, Uni Schaer, Kevin Yvane, Bobby Bauer, 840 00:42:56,200 --> 00:43:00,279 Speaker 1: Alison Kant Graber, Jody Williams, Rita Sodi, and the team 841 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,680 Speaker 1: at Via Carota in Manhattan's West Village. For more podcasts 842 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:08,320 Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 843 00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,040 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.