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Speaker 1: Hats from the Past. Tune in is Matt Smith and

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Speaker 1: Paul Perillo offer in depth interviews with some of the

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Speaker 1: greatest players and coaches in New England Patriots history.

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Speaker 2: Joined by the newest member of the Patriots Hall of Fame,

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Speaker 2: Mike Gravel.

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Speaker 1: Find out what led to some of the greatest moments

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Speaker 1: in franchise history and unique behind the scenes insight.

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Speaker 2: And please to be joined by former Patriot quarterback Brian

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Speaker 2: hoy Or. Joined by number thirty seven on your scorecard,

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Speaker 2: but number one in our hearts at least Rodney Harrison.

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Speaker 3: Good to be home, Good to see you guys.

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Speaker 1: Search for Pats in the Past anywhere you get your podcast.

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Speaker 2: Hey, coach, great discussion during the break. By the way,

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Speaker 2: what he expected that you would walk in here and

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Speaker 2: be on his side when it comes.

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Speaker 3: To planting the flag right again?

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Speaker 4: And you are not. You believe you're an underdog and

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Speaker 4: you win on the road in a rivalry game, Like,

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Speaker 4: what's wrong with that? What's wrong with planning?

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Speaker 5: So let's just change all rivalry games to plant the

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Speaker 5: flag game. Whoever wins can plant You're missing I'm not

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Speaker 5: missing the point.

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Speaker 3: What's the point?

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Speaker 4: The point is if you're an underdog on the road

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Speaker 4: in a rivalry game. Okay, it's a big deal. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: And and have some class when with the classless part

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Speaker 4: is punching someone with a hel.

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Speaker 5: The classless pot is going up to the middle of

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Speaker 5: the Philip field and plant in your flag. You beat

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Speaker 5: you one, take your dub like a man, and have

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Speaker 5: some have some respect for you.

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Speaker 6: Go to your long room and lose, and don't go on.

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Speaker 5: The Fieldout's about you, you know, better than anything either.

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Speaker 4: You know. What that leads to fis thrown Yeah, with

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Speaker 4: helmets and shoulder who's really getting hurt. The person throwing

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Speaker 4: the punch is probably gonna get hurt before the person everybody.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes a helmet gets pulled off.

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Speaker 4: Well there you go.

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Speaker 3: Somebody comes a black eye.

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Speaker 4: Have you had a black eye? No? No, no, Has

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Speaker 4: anyone ever tried you like that? And like punch your no,

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Speaker 4: no exactly. I hope the questions are about football today.

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Speaker 2: Out well, listen in that game till the end. I

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Speaker 2: think we were just we were talking about it before

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Speaker 2: you came. And really from our perspective, the outside perspective,

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Speaker 2: it's being you know, again in scoring position and you

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Speaker 2: got penalties and you're unable to you're unable to convert.

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Speaker 4: To me, the game came down to red area. Defensively,

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Speaker 4: we're a poor offensively, we're a poor in a red area,

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Speaker 4: we walk away with no points on the field goal,

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Speaker 4: and we just have to we have to act. That

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Speaker 4: is the NFL. And this is why I continue to

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Speaker 4: try to tell the guys like, this is the NFL.

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Speaker 4: We've been in seven to one score games, seven one

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Speaker 4: score games, and we have to find a way to

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Speaker 4: get over the hump and win those games. And yeah,

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Speaker 4: I got to do a better job.

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Speaker 2: And you have you say, you have to do a

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Speaker 2: better job. You've got to get when you look at

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Speaker 2: the situation penalty wise and these guys holding, is there

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Speaker 2: is there anything I mean?

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Speaker 4: Is that a?

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Speaker 2: Is that a you know, just a pure disadvantage talent wise,

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Speaker 2: and that's the only option?

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Speaker 4: Is that coaching? Like what, Yeah, I'm not gonna get

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Speaker 4: into that. What I will say is the week prior

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Speaker 4: it was the operational pre snap penalties, which are just

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Speaker 4: totally focused concentration type of penalties. Look, we're in the NFL,

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Speaker 4: Like there will be times where it's holding or you know,

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Speaker 4: someone's out there poor technique and its pasting afference, like

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Speaker 4: on the pass player to Julane. Look, the first time

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Speaker 4: we had this crew was the first Miami game and

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Speaker 4: there were ten holding calls between the two teams. So

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Speaker 4: we went into the game knowing, like these reps, they're

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Speaker 4: gonna call holding, And that's the most frustrating part for

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Speaker 4: me because once it does happen, it's like, all right,

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Speaker 4: let's fix it there. Obviously you can call them tiki

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Speaker 4: tack or not tickey tack, Like we need to be

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Speaker 4: able to adjust in the game and do businesses. Business

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Speaker 4: is being done when you.

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Speaker 5: Say do a better job, like, you know, especially in

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Speaker 5: the red zone. Do you think it's more about play

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Speaker 5: selection maybe being Yeah, and I don't want to use

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Speaker 5: the word aggressive, or but just maybe play selection when

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Speaker 5: it comes to off defensively and having that many opportunities

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Speaker 5: or is it more? But we had the right play

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Speaker 5: on but it was poor execution by the plays.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, look to me, it's everyone. We can say, you know,

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Speaker 4: play selection, we can say execution. The field gets shorter,

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Speaker 4: as you know, the lower you get down. So now

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Speaker 4: that safety that was in the middle of the field,

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Speaker 4: you know you were able to, you know, take him

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Speaker 4: out of the game. He's now part of the game,

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Speaker 4: both in the run game in the past game, and

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Speaker 4: we have to get a hat on a hat and

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Speaker 4: score touchdowns and we just weren't able to do that.

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Speaker 4: And I would say defensively, we weren't able to stop them.

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Speaker 7: Positives wise, I would say the biggest positive was your

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Speaker 7: total yards on offense four hundred and twenty two, the

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Speaker 7: most since twenty twenty two. I believe for you guys,

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Speaker 7: is that Drake may and his ability to just get

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Speaker 7: the ball out there but also take off with his legs.

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Speaker 7: And is that AVP making sure that Drake is improving

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Speaker 7: every week?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I would say a combination of the two. I

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Speaker 4: think Drake's getting better every week. I talk about him

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Speaker 4: not being a repeat era guy. I would also say

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Speaker 4: it's you know, just as we say, sit up here,

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Speaker 4: and when we're not able to run the ball, we say, well,

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Speaker 4: it starts up front. Now we run the ball for

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Speaker 4: two hundred yards and it starts up front. And I

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Speaker 4: would say that Leyden was it perfect. No, but he

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Speaker 4: went out there and played his tail off and had

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Speaker 4: some big blocks for us, and that's part of it.

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Speaker 4: And I know, look, we all want to sit here

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Speaker 4: and you know, look, Drake is a good player and

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Speaker 4: he will be a good player. He'll get better as

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Speaker 4: we go on. But there are other young players that

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Speaker 4: have to take those steps, and I would say Layden

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Speaker 4: took a step. Now hopefully we can continue on that

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Speaker 4: trajectory going forward.

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Speaker 6: You would set after the game that you know you

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Speaker 6: thought about calling a time out before the two point

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Speaker 6: conversion or even on that drive, the nineteen play drive

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Speaker 6: by the Sea, by the Sea by the Colts.

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Speaker 4: If we would have taken you know, when I went

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Speaker 4: back and watched it, and this was part of the

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Speaker 4: conversation too, if we would have taken our timeouts on

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Speaker 4: that final drive, we would have got the ball back

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Speaker 4: with it was a seven play drive or something like that,

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Speaker 4: we would have gotten the ball back with like five

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Speaker 4: seconds and no timeouts. And so it did give us

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Speaker 4: an opportunity to at the end of the game still

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Speaker 4: have a chance.

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Speaker 6: So I think you've done a great job of being

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Speaker 6: your own man, and it's something that we've credited you

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Speaker 6: for that. A lot of people have followed certain coaches

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Speaker 6: and then they try to be that person. It was

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Speaker 6: frustrating for me to hear you cite the Super Bowl.

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Speaker 4: Right, look, and just I probably shouldn't. You know, when

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Speaker 4: I said it, I was frustrated first of all, which

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Speaker 4: I should have taken a deep breath. I should not

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Speaker 4: have said that. I should not have said it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, neutralized.

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Speaker 4: He did not expect me. He didn't expect me. You

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Speaker 4: know what, guys, You know what, guys, I should not

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Speaker 4: have said you figured him out. Then it was like

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Speaker 4: I saw smoke coming out your ears. Look, I shouldn't

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Speaker 4: have said it. I shouldn't have said it. And we

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Speaker 4: all make mistakes.

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Speaker 6: Honestly, I have not had anybody agree with me in

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Speaker 6: five years.

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Speaker 4: That's not true. We just agreed that day.

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Speaker 5: Well, at least we got like some insight on because

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Speaker 5: our biggest conversation was, you know, the reason why you

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Speaker 5: didn't call you time Oltson. Part of our conversation was

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Speaker 5: the fact that we felt like you wanted to have

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Speaker 5: enough time offensive, which you did and put yourself in

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Speaker 5: a position that would have been.

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Speaker 3: A history and making field goal play.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. But I would also say, Joey, I know he

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Speaker 4: missed a short field goal during the game, but pregame

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Speaker 4: is always big, especially with specialists, and he was booming

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Speaker 4: him in pregame, and I felt like that gave us

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Speaker 4: the best best scenario. I think, you know, since like

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Speaker 4: twenty fourteen, you know one, I think it's one and

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Speaker 4: eleven as far as kicks, like that same thing with

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Speaker 4: hell Mary's like it was one out of twelve, one

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Speaker 4: out of ten.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I just felt like that was the best thing to do.

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Speaker 7: That short pass for Drake. Were you guys hope you

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Speaker 7: guys were hoping to get a little bit closer than sixty.

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Speaker 3: Seven year out.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's why we ran it. Yeah, you run the

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Speaker 4: slants because they're playing off you run the slants. And

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Speaker 4: I thought Hunter and the quarterback did a good job

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Speaker 4: getting the ball out and getting down like that's part

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Speaker 4: of the situations that we go over every day.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of Hunter, Henry, how is there not a helmet

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Speaker 2: to helmet when it comes to you?

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Speaker 7: No.

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Speaker 4: I asked a referee about that, and yeah, he said

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Speaker 4: it wasn't helmet to helmet. His screws didn't line up,

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Speaker 4: line up a lot of exactly like a transformer a penalty.

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Speaker 3: I realized.

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Speaker 2: I realized he wasn't defenseless, but it's still that's why

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Speaker 2: he was a runner. But but it's still helmet to helmet.

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Speaker 6: We're going to talk about penalties. I mean, Christian Barmore

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Speaker 6: after the game, the two point conversion try, I mean,

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Speaker 6: you do want to if you, if you do, say

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Speaker 6: that this is a crew that caused a lot of holding.

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Speaker 6: There was a pretty obvious one of the biggest plays.

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Speaker 4: I thought so too, But well, I'm not going to

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Speaker 4: get fined. Yeah, we'll pay for.

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Speaker 3: Hels he was out helmet helmet he.

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Speaker 2: I can make that commitment going forward. Helman's will pay

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Speaker 2: all of your fines or we'll get Land Rover of Norway.

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Speaker 4: I love referees, but really like that. I mean they're

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Speaker 4: in a difficult position too, especially as it comes down

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Speaker 4: to the end of games like that.

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Speaker 2: And listen, you won the challenge, I mean went your way,

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Speaker 2: so I had the other one.

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Speaker 4: You'll go ahead and bring up the other one. I

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Speaker 4: could have challenged on the drive. Well, I've been together

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Speaker 4: way too long at this point. I know exactly what

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Speaker 4: you guys are. You know what we're gonna ask. All right, yeah,

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Speaker 4: but that but on that play there was I didn't

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Speaker 4: get a clear shot of it, you know, on that

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Speaker 4: one that I know some people think I should have

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Speaker 4: challenged I didn't get a clear shot of it, and

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Speaker 4: I would say, you know, the forty nine ers, we

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Speaker 4: lost that challenge. Last week, we lost that challenge, and

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Speaker 4: I would say, this guy had his hands under the

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Speaker 4: ball more than those guys did. Yeah.

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Speaker 7: So, yeah, Jabrill Pepper is playing in the game. When

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Speaker 7: did you guys make that decision that he was gonna

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Speaker 7: not only be back of practice but be playing it again.

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Speaker 4: I just had to see what he looked like in practice,

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Speaker 4: and again he came off the Commissioner's exemplest and was

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Speaker 4: ready to go.

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Speaker 6: And I feel like watching that, my first reaction immediately

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Speaker 6: after the game was the Colts approach is what we

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Speaker 6: have been longing for for this team, which is balls

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Speaker 6: to the wall, go for two. Whether it was the

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Speaker 6: Titans game or otherwise, I feel like that is what

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Speaker 6: I don't know what they're you know, we'll go back

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Speaker 6: in time here, but I feel like a lot of

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Speaker 6: Patriots observers want that from you, which is, let's try

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Speaker 6: and win every game. If we lose whatever, we're all

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Speaker 6: trying to get better.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm always look I will say, like, you know,

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Speaker 4: we talk about the one score games and the you know,

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Speaker 4: once you start going for it on every fourth down

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Speaker 4: or going for two here, that's when you get those

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Speaker 4: real blowouts. And so what I would say is I'm

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Speaker 4: trying to do the best job that I can with

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Speaker 4: the team that we have right now, and that's through

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Speaker 4: taking care of the football, going out there, playing with

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Speaker 4: good fundamentals. And I understand the frustration of go for two,

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Speaker 4: don't go for two. I understand it. But at the

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Speaker 4: same time, I'm coaching this team here in the present,

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Speaker 4: and also we're trying to build a foundation going forward.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, our guys shine back at the station had

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Speaker 2: some coaching critiques this morning. Shine, I don't know if

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Speaker 2: you want to bring any of those up.

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Speaker 4: Well, no, it's fine. Like I mean, look, that's what

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Speaker 4: the game is, and these questions that come up are

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Speaker 4: symptoms of losing. There are symptoms of losing football. If

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Speaker 4: we would have won the game, then the critiques have

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Speaker 4: probably been a little bit different.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I just have a question for general knowledge. Who

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Speaker 6: is your Ernie Adams in game?

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Speaker 2: You just stole my helmets question of the week right

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Speaker 2: right out from under? Would I let me let me

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Speaker 2: tease it? You can you can purchase helmets at your

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Speaker 2: local Walmart or grocery store to add extra deliciousness and

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Speaker 2: creamy flavor to your game day dishes this football season.

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Speaker 2: And not only is.

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Speaker 4: It that lack of communication. Yeah, I know that we

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Speaker 4: have a bullet time out here.

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Speaker 2: Not only is Curtis asking, but Boomer Asiasin was asking

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Speaker 2: this morning who you're on headsets with.

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Speaker 4: I'm on the headsets with all the coaches. Look, and

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Speaker 4: I don't want to get into comparisons about Ernie or

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Speaker 4: anything like that, but I do have a channel that

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Speaker 4: I go to with with Evan and we have a

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Speaker 4: conversation and ultimately it's my decision. And so all the

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Speaker 4: coaching critiques like should go to me and not anyone else,

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Speaker 4: Like all of those plays go for to, not go

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Speaker 4: for to, Like that's all on me.

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Speaker 5: When you're when you're in that last situation right because

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Speaker 5: I'm watching.

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Speaker 4: Can I ask a question? What I mean?

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Speaker 8: So, if we if we were losing, look, losing stakes regardless,

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Speaker 8: if we were losing games by let's just say twenty

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Speaker 8: one points a game versus being in the games at

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Speaker 8: the end, and I understand we've.

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Speaker 4: Lost those games, Like which is better? It's losing football.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so you're saying it doesn't matter.

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Speaker 4: No, what I'm saying is we have to be able

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Speaker 4: to control the ball. We have to go out there

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Speaker 4: and play, you know, fundamentally sounding. I'm not going to

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Speaker 4: say conservative or anything like that, but you're playing your

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Speaker 4: coaching and also playing to have a chance at the

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Speaker 4: end of the game, because we know these this the

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Speaker 4: one score games, like that's what the NFL is.

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Speaker 6: Well, it's also probably you don't have the track meet

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Speaker 6: offense where if you're down ten to fifteen points in

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Speaker 6: the second half, it's not a team that likely is

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Speaker 6: going to come back.

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Speaker 4: I'm just saying.

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Speaker 2: In other words, no, no, I meant better answering this

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Speaker 2: for sure, for sure, And I've.

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Speaker 4: Learned not to talk about hypothetical if somebody gets But

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Speaker 4: my thing is like, you know, going back, let's go back,

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Speaker 4: like version of hold on. Let me give you this.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm gonna tell you why it's frustrating for fans,

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Speaker 2: but go ahead tell me because once you finished. No,

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Speaker 2: I think it's frustrating because you are in these games

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Speaker 2: and short of penalties, you you would win these football games,

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Speaker 2: I think, and that's got to be really frustrating. For

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Speaker 2: you as well.

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Speaker 4: It is very frustrating. And look, we're doing everything we

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Speaker 4: can to try to get better, you know. And look

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Speaker 4: we have a bye week. We're gonna do a lot

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Speaker 4: of reflecting and things like that. We'll practice a couple

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Speaker 4: of days and you know, hopefully try to strengthen games together.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, well here's here's no hypotheticals. Just take me through

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Speaker 5: and the fans. First and goal, it's Colts run, run, run,

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Speaker 5: And now it's the fourth and goal situation. And the

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Speaker 5: mindset of what defensive play call? Is there a call

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Speaker 5: to maybe put pressure on them or are you expecting

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Speaker 5: and I mean another run? Like what's the whole mind

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Speaker 5: and said when they run, you know, basically first and goal.

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Speaker 3: Now it's a fourth down situation.

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Speaker 5: Defensively, to be a little bit more aggressive or maybe

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Speaker 5: to play a little bit more zone coverage.

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Speaker 4: No, it's a good question, I would say, before we

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Speaker 4: even get to that point, they converted three fourth down

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Speaker 4: conversions on that drive. Yep. So look, we make any

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Speaker 4: one of those plays and the game has changed. And

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Speaker 4: then earlier in the show we talked about the bar

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Speaker 4: More situation and so look it comes back to defeating

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Speaker 4: the person across from you and making them play, and

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Speaker 4: we just didn't do that. All right, I was thanksgiving.

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Speaker 4: It was good. You know, it's always good to be

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Speaker 4: around family. And look, I'm thankful for a lot of things.

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Speaker 4: And I said it, I'm thankful for the opportunities like

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Speaker 4: the coaches football team. I'm thankful to be here with

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Speaker 4: you guys. I mean I could be doing something else

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Speaker 4: and I'd rather be here with you guys. Yeah, but

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Speaker 4: what I will say is, look, we will get better.

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Speaker 4: We will get better. We feel like we have a

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Speaker 4: we have a good piece at the quarterback position, and

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Speaker 4: now it's about just getting better and putting a better

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Speaker 4: product out there for the fans. They deserve more.

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Speaker 2: And it's a That run he had yesterday was it's

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Speaker 2: it's exciting. I mean, he's really really good.

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Speaker 4: Used to do that in high school.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would if I got off the magister.

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Speaker 6: He was actually running after helmets.

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Speaker 2: There is that when you do you start, I know

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Speaker 2: you're probably gonna tell me you don't get ahead of yourself.

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Speaker 2: But when you when you kind of look toward We've

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Speaker 2: talked a lot with you about the roster. When you

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Speaker 2: look toward what this team needs is there an area

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Speaker 2: that you say is your number one focus? Is it?

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Speaker 2: Is it offensive line? Is it getting him the weapons?

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Speaker 2: He because I know you think about it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I do think about it. And I would also

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Speaker 4: say that's part of you know, this week for me,

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Speaker 4: Like as much as you want to go on a

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Speaker 4: beach and chill out, like we just don't have time

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Speaker 4: to do that from a coaching or from a scouting perspective,

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Speaker 4: and so this time is for us to reflect and

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Speaker 4: kind of address those questions that you just have.

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Speaker 5: And you're our last one for me because you had

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Speaker 5: said you constantly learning and you're constantly trying to grow

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Speaker 5: as a coach. What what are the things that you

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Speaker 5: can you look at and you go, all right, maybe

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Speaker 5: I like I.

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Speaker 3: Shouldn't say this.

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Speaker 5: Sometimes I get frustrated and I say this, And like

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Speaker 5: when you start to reflect it, are you like kind

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Speaker 5: of working your way through because a lot of it

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Speaker 5: is like media related, Like, so there's a lot of

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Speaker 5: the stuff that you're working your way through, saying I

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Speaker 5: got to approach things differently because sometimes I may say something.

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Speaker 3: That I believe but it gets taken out of contact.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, my main concern has always been the guys in

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Speaker 4: that locker room. Now, look, you guys can take comments

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Speaker 4: that I've said and make them look like whatever you want.

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Speaker 4: But to me, like most kingdoms you know, are taken

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Speaker 4: down within, and my job is for us not to

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Speaker 4: be divisive, but to come together, especially when there's so

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Speaker 4: much noise and chatter on the outside.

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Speaker 7: Were you able to watch that Jaguars game and the

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Speaker 7: Trevor Lawrent it?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it was unfortunate. You know, anytime you see a

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Speaker 4: guy going to that type of postures, it's always a

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Speaker 4: scary moment for everyone. So thought some prayers out to

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Speaker 4: Trevor and his family and the team. What sorry, you're

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Speaker 4: looking at pictures?

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Speaker 2: Rob rob Nikovich wants to know whose nose whistling on

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Speaker 2: the microphone? Me, you are, Wiki, It's not me for sure.

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Speaker 4: Probably me.

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Speaker 5: I got a little bit of a running nose for

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Speaker 5: some reason, and I can't catch it.

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Speaker 3: I can't catch it, Rob, I'm trying to put my

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Speaker 3: mic up on.

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Speaker 4: Just get a job.

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Speaker 2: I don't I mean one for him, I mean I

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Speaker 2: don't have.

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Speaker 4: You don't have with.

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Speaker 2: The staff we have right now. He's listening to us

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Speaker 2: right now and text you that he really extended his

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Speaker 2: career far beyond what he was like in in Miami

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Speaker 2: or New Orleans or other.

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Speaker 4: Thing like that. You know, the further you get away

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Speaker 4: from your career, like the stories you hear about some guys, Oh,

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Speaker 4: this guy is so smart, made all the plays impact.

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Speaker 4: But the thing with myself was, like I heard people

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Speaker 4: talk about me, I was like, I was good. I wasn't.

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Speaker 6: Speaking of coaches, I mean house high tower, Ben. What's

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Speaker 6: it been like to work with him, the guy that

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Speaker 6: did make all the plays?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I like that.

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Speaker 6: I like that.

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Speaker 4: I'm real, chirp you at. It's been great. It's been great.

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Speaker 4: It's been a great learning experience. And I see him

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Speaker 4: going through the same things I went through from a player,

413
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Speaker 4: becoming you know, then having your own room. And one

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Speaker 4: of those is, look, I mean, look, we're out here

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Speaker 4: to win games, and we're not out here. We are

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Speaker 4: a family. We are friends, but you know we talk

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Speaker 4: about with family. I can't fire my daughter or my

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Speaker 4: son or anything like that. But in this world, I

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Speaker 4: think he's, uh, he's doing a good job and he's

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Speaker 4: coaching his tail off. All right, coach, Thank you, Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Patriots playbook join John Rook as he brings you all

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Speaker 1: the latest Patriots Talk, an expert commentary direct from Patriots HQ.

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Speaker 1: The show features interviews with New England and Opponent Beat

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00:19:05,478 --> 00:19:07,558
Speaker 1: writers that bring you a unique media view of the

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Speaker 1: state of the team.

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Speaker 4: But where the Patriots are concerned.

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Speaker 1: Let's just get one thing done and let's get it

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Speaker 1: done right and then.

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Speaker 3: We can worry about versatility.

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Speaker 1: Am I lying to anybody here?

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Speaker 6: Let's just get one thing done.

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Speaker 2: Let's get one thing done right, and then we can

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Speaker 2: move along.

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Speaker 4: That's kind of my biggest thing.

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Speaker 1: Search Patriots Playbook anywhere you get your podcast.