Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Wefsets podcast. My
Speaker 1: guests today are Isaac, Zach and Taylor Handsome, collectively known
Speaker 1: as Handsome Gentlemen. You're leaving imminently for European tour. What
Speaker 1: does Hansen mean? What kind of audience do you have
Speaker 1: in Europe?
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, great to be on the podcast
Speaker 2: with you and.
Speaker 3: We, you know, very comparable around the world.
Speaker 2: You know, we play theaters some places, you know, big
Speaker 2: amphitheaters and most places around here. Yeah, I mean, historically
Speaker 2: it's about half of our audiences in the US, about
Speaker 2: half of our audience outside the US. The lucky thing,
Speaker 2: I mean, the gift a few bands have of having
Speaker 2: sort of a breakout early that hits a lot more
Speaker 2: places than your home. Yeah, but you got to work
Speaker 2: at it if you want to continue to be able
Speaker 2: to get to those places, you got to you know,
Speaker 2: get yourself out there.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: It's always most impressive to me that the music speaks
Speaker 3: to people who have no English language other than the music.
Speaker 3: Of course, when you started with a song that is
Speaker 3: no word, everybody it's.
Speaker 5: The same chip. Maybe maybe that's the initial secret languge. Yeah,
Speaker 5: but this is mostly a Scandinavian tour. So it's kind
Speaker 5: of fun because you know, your your blood goes back
Speaker 5: to Scandinavia, so you.
Speaker 3: Get to feel like you're going home.
Speaker 2: We're basically the way we've identified where you're basically Danish,
Speaker 2: you know, not too far back.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to something you said earlier. You
Speaker 1: said you got to work it. Yes, what is working it?
Speaker 3: Entail?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean so for for us, I mean for
Speaker 2: the hands, hands and stories. We started very very young.
Speaker 2: We were inspired by rock and roll, inspired by soul
Speaker 2: music and records, and we thought, hey, we can do this.
Speaker 2: You know these they're all teenagers, right, I mean, we
Speaker 2: don't need to wait. So we we got lucky, got
Speaker 2: turned down by everybody in the industry, finally got signed,
Speaker 2: had this breakout success on our first record, which is
Speaker 2: very very rare, but pretty quickly we just we knew
Speaker 2: that we were going to continue to have to really engage.
Speaker 2: This wasn't about just hits. It was about community and
Speaker 2: of a fan base. And so twenty years ago, on
Speaker 2: our third record, we left and started on label to
Speaker 2: build something that we knew, you know, it was more
Speaker 2: about the just the sustainability of what what do you
Speaker 2: want to do over the time. You can't have corporate
Speaker 2: corporate earnings every quarter determine what kind of album you make.
Speaker 2: And so working it means getting on the road. Working
Speaker 2: means communicating online with our online fan club community. You know.
Speaker 2: Working it means doing doing great work. I mean kind
Speaker 2: of not sitting sitting back and just kind of going, hey,
Speaker 2: this is going to keep coming to us.
Speaker 6: I would I would get a little bit more specific too,
Speaker 6: and I would say that working it looks like in
Speaker 6: twenty twenty two, you know, on that Red Green, Blue tour,
Speaker 6: when we went out, you know, doing one hundred shows
Speaker 6: in six months, you know, squeezing.
Speaker 3: All that in or around the five countries.
Speaker 6: Yeah, fifty shows outside the US, fifty shows in the US.
Speaker 6: And starting off, like as Ta said, back to the
Speaker 6: you know third record, when you know, when you're having
Speaker 6: to prove yourself again to people and keep the career alive,
Speaker 6: you say, well, it doesn't matter if people don't believe
Speaker 6: it is, will play wherever we have to play. And
Speaker 6: so you just go out and you say no, we're
Speaker 6: going to let the music prove itself and we're going
Speaker 6: to let the fans show up and luckily they've shown up,
Speaker 6: and luckily, for the most part, the music is still
Speaker 6: speaking to them.
Speaker 3: They're speaking more literally. I would say working it in
Speaker 3: the song sense. Everybody's listened to a song and got
Speaker 3: thirty or forty five seconds in and said you lost me, right,
Speaker 3: I think as a band, as somebody going on stage,
Speaker 3: as somebody meeting fans every night, working it means you're
Speaker 3: forty five seconds in and you're still coming up with
Speaker 3: new ways to connect people, new things to draw people.
Speaker 3: And it's not I hope the intro works and the
Speaker 3: rest will be.
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, let's start with the Scandinavian tour. Why Scandinavia
Speaker 1: is opposed to any other place on the planet.
Speaker 2: Well, honestly, most mostly we've been we spend a lot
Speaker 2: more time in Latin America, a lot more time in Australia,
Speaker 2: a lot more time into States, and we're we're responding
Speaker 2: to specific interest at this point in our career where
Speaker 2: we're you know.
Speaker 6: Just a promoter reached out and said, I've got a
Speaker 6: group of shows, would you guys do it? And so
Speaker 6: we're going out and doing it.
Speaker 2: Well, it's rare to get to do multiple concerts, you know,
Speaker 2: in a community that's you know, smaller than you know,
Speaker 2: it's it's about Oklahoma population. I think some of these
Speaker 2: countries Doorway, it's you know, in Finland. But but it's
Speaker 2: it's a you know, sometimes it's responding.
Speaker 3: It's looking at something and you say, what would it
Speaker 3: mean if that was a new kind of home for us,
Speaker 3: if that was a place where we could grow that
Speaker 3: fan base. And so we're going to go be over there.
Speaker 3: We're going to go put the time into these fans
Speaker 3: and and build relationships and build experiences and see see
Speaker 3: what happens.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so how many countries? How many dates?
Speaker 3: Oh wow, Well.
Speaker 6: With this particular one, it's actually mostly in Norway.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is Finland and Norway. This this is sort
Speaker 3: of an interesting tour. This is an off year, I
Speaker 3: would say for us. By the end of the year,
Speaker 3: we'll have done about forty shows in the US and
Speaker 3: this is about twelve shows in.
Speaker 6: Norway that we'll do in Finland.
Speaker 3: Yeah, in Finland. So it's it's an interesting year because
Speaker 3: you have the album years and you have the non
Speaker 3: album years, and how do you continue to tell stories,
Speaker 3: connect with things from your past. You go like, we
Speaker 3: are a band of a generation, a band of a
Speaker 3: decade associated with nineties and two thousand, So how do
Speaker 3: you sort of use those kind of connections but also
Speaker 3: continue to invite people to new things. I would say
Speaker 3: it's a typical I see typical.
Speaker 2: When you do our last full sort of real world tour,
Speaker 2: it was twenty five countries, one hundred dates. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: and it's probably you know again, Latin American fans amazing,
Speaker 2: they have a reputation, but Australian fans and we've gotten
Speaker 2: to spend a good amount of time in Europe. But
Speaker 2: when you when you can reach new places, a lot
Speaker 2: of times, you know, you're like I was saying, Isaac
Speaker 2: was saying, you have to be strategic sometimes to say
Speaker 2: we're going to play some places we haven't played as much,
Speaker 2: so we can come back to those places.
Speaker 3: And that's the touring life, you know.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's just because this is happening, let's continue to
Speaker 1: focus on Scandinavia. So in Norway, other than the dates themselves,
Speaker 1: what promotion will you do?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 2: This is kind of an off cycle, so we mostly
Speaker 2: in this particular case, we probably won't be doing an
Speaker 2: extraordinary amount of promotion. A lot of it's social media
Speaker 2: sharing and a global communication with fans. I mean, for instance,
Speaker 2: let me.
Speaker 1: Let me be very specific here, you're in Scandinavia. The
Speaker 1: promoter reached out, we could go and play the twelve
Speaker 1: odd dates, or will you say I want to do
Speaker 1: an in store I want to do the rate you
Speaker 1: I want to do all that other stuff, or is
Speaker 1: showing up at the gig basically all.
Speaker 3: You're gonna do well normally, normally, this Bob, you got
Speaker 3: us on this one. I mean, because it's not an
Speaker 3: album year. This is not an in store kind of thing.
Speaker 3: This is a see what happens, This is a you know,
Speaker 3: we're we're really in the process. Probably next year or
Speaker 3: the year after that will be the next really big
Speaker 3: push for an album. And so now, honestly, it's more
Speaker 3: like go to a fjord, get yourself inspired for what
Speaker 3: you want to put into the next project, and and
Speaker 3: plan for those next things. In any other year, it
Speaker 3: would be you'd go, how many stores can we show up?
Speaker 3: How many radio stations can we be in? I mean
Speaker 3: every morning, if there's an opportunity, that's the way we
Speaker 3: would be.
Speaker 6: Yeah, normally, you know, I will say specifically though, in
Speaker 6: the fall, we've got this Underneath Experience tour. This starts
Speaker 6: in September or actually beginning of October, and that's in
Speaker 6: twelve cities across the US, and that's two cities or
Speaker 6: two nights in every city, and it's an acoustic show
Speaker 6: and an electric show. And that is for this new
Speaker 6: project that we're putting out, which is a anniversary edition
Speaker 6: of the album Underneath.
Speaker 3: The twenty record we put out first.
Speaker 6: Calling it Underneath Complete, and we've added, you know, a
Speaker 6: bunch of demos and things that did not make the record,
Speaker 6: demos of songs that didn't make the record. We've also
Speaker 6: done a couple, yeah, a couple of new recordings. We've
Speaker 6: got a recording of the song Pink Moon by Nick Drake,
Speaker 6: and we have a new version of the first single
Speaker 6: off of Underneath. It's a song called Pay and Me
Speaker 6: and we call it the Moon that version because it's
Speaker 6: it's kind of inspired by Pink Moon.
Speaker 2: I wanted it just to pivot back to what you're
Speaker 2: asking to kind of break down, because you you have,
Speaker 2: you have been a voice of really digging into the
Speaker 2: industry that we're in versus most places.
Speaker 3: We talked to.
Speaker 2: You know, it's journalists that are just trying to tell
Speaker 2: any good tosty. We know, your your actual you know,
Speaker 2: passion or communication about this world we live in, you know,
Speaker 2: is oftentimes you know, discussing the stuff that might be
Speaker 2: you know, not common to the average fan. But we
Speaker 2: have historically been getting up early going to the radio station.
Speaker 2: We've like a crew killer. Like the crews, they're like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, what are you guys doing. You're doing
Speaker 2: a show and a radio.
Speaker 6: It would not be on common historically for us to
Speaker 6: let our crew sleep in and we're.
Speaker 3: Gonna do a morning radio after a late night tour.
Speaker 2: And and the other thing too is the relationship with
Speaker 2: the fans. One of things that we have today is
Speaker 2: that we're really grateful for that. We've worked on targement
Speaker 2: working is a fan club, a real, true engagement with
Speaker 2: fans online, and starting back twenty years ago, we set
Speaker 2: that up sort of before the world was waking up
Speaker 2: to the reality that we're all living in of this
Speaker 2: digital universe of community community. But we you know, the
Speaker 2: meet and greet time with the fan before each show.
Speaker 2: We select a specific fan before every show and sit
Speaker 2: down and have an interview with them and those kinds
Speaker 2: of things where you your day looks like frankly as
Speaker 2: much communication and connection with the audience that's there and
Speaker 2: to tell that story where every city you're.
Speaker 3: In as much as you can sweeze much as you
Speaker 3: can squeeze in.
Speaker 1: Okay, do you know how big the venues are in Norway?
Speaker 3: Well, these venues, these are festival gigs and they're all
Speaker 3: they're about five or six thousand. Yeah.
Speaker 6: I think the one in Oslo is a little bigger
Speaker 6: than that. It's more like twelve thousand something like that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, but yeah, okay, so this promoter reached out.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about outside the US. Is that normally how
Speaker 1: these tours come about for you guys?
Speaker 2: Not at all, No, I mean usually the way things
Speaker 2: come about for us is really setting a course for
Speaker 2: you know, your trajectory. I mean, like what we're doing
Speaker 2: like an album, you know, here's an album and being
Speaker 2: proactically engaged in how do we keep the communication and
Speaker 2: the excitement going with our audience and you build a
Speaker 2: relationship like you know, whether with spresureom for instance in Australia,
Speaker 2: where you know you have an audience a couple of
Speaker 2: years ago we did a symphony tour and this was like, okay,
Speaker 2: here's a we need a story. You're always trying to
Speaker 2: tell a story. I mean, this particular moment, this particular
Speaker 2: tour is is a little bit less that way, but
Speaker 2: the symphony tour is a great example. Okay, we know
Speaker 2: we had an anniversary like in twenty seventeen that was
Speaker 2: kind of a monumental like landmark for us. It's twenty
Speaker 2: five years as a band, and so you're a couple
Speaker 2: of years after that like, okay, so what's the next tour.
Speaker 2: We don't want to just show up, So we for
Speaker 2: years to want to do a symphony project, and we
Speaker 2: spent two and a half.
Speaker 3: Years building this show.
Speaker 2: And that was one of those things that Okay, now
Speaker 2: we're going to go to different kinds of venues. We're
Speaker 2: gonna go to seeded venues, and the seated venues was
Speaker 2: you know, another way almost it's almost like turning the soil,
Speaker 2: so to speak, because you know, hey, this may not
Speaker 2: be the show that's packed in sweaty and a big
Speaker 2: ga floor where there's a bunch of people jumping around,
Speaker 2: but this might be a show that's a symphony show.
Speaker 2: And now you're going to do two nights at Sydney
Speaker 2: Opera House, which which was so we're playing the last
Speaker 2: show that tour, or playing the Greek or in the
Speaker 2: la or playing rooms that allow somebody to say, you
Speaker 2: know what, I'm actually gonna bring my folks to this
Speaker 2: show and my kids and we're gonna sit and take
Speaker 2: in this different kind of a show. And in business wise,
Speaker 2: you're also being like, hey, this is a higher ticket,
Speaker 2: so this is not like the regular tour.
Speaker 3: So I think the because there's because you've got to
Speaker 3: pay for it's a higher ticket.
Speaker 2: That's why people don't do symphony projects because they're expensive.
Speaker 2: But so I think the answer would be you're always
Speaker 2: trying to tell a story and you're building a relationship
Speaker 2: with promoters and with partners. Because we started a label
Speaker 2: twenty years ago, we have also had a network of
Speaker 2: distributors or people that we have jvs withjoin ventures or
Speaker 2: licensing agreements with labels, so we're also keeping our dynamic
Speaker 2: with them.
Speaker 3: Now we have.
Speaker 2: Probably the most global net as one label that we've
Speaker 2: ever had, which is our relationship with the Orchard and
Speaker 2: utilizing their global system. But it's also so much different
Speaker 2: than it was because there's almost no physical so you're
Speaker 2: telling a story and you're trying to keep people engaged
Speaker 2: and keep it interesting, and that's what drives the touring
Speaker 2: cycle mostly.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Okay, if you're going to be touring outside the United States,
Speaker 1: do you have a foreign agent?
Speaker 6: Yeah, we have several agents around the world. We have
Speaker 6: an agent that's primarily focused in the US, and then
Speaker 6: we've got a few different agents around the world that
Speaker 6: focus on regions like South America, Europe, and Asia.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's really just looking for the right relationships.
Speaker 3: UK and most of x US has been under one
Speaker 3: one umbrella.
Speaker 6: And origionally Agency Group now UTA Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and again I mean relationships, you know, not
Speaker 2: only with your fans, but with your partners is really
Speaker 2: really key. Of course, you have people that have infrastructure
Speaker 2: and different offerings. You know, when we started the label,
Speaker 2: it was Ada was our distributor as a label, and we.
Speaker 6: Were kind of a long time.
Speaker 2: They were great, But you find that it's not only
Speaker 2: what definite what the offering is. You know, a lot
Speaker 2: of touring agency have a very similar set of skills.
Speaker 2: You know, people that know how to book shows, they
Speaker 2: take their percentage. They go out there and the canvas,
Speaker 2: they get you a routing. But it's who understands and
Speaker 2: who kind of joins you and saying, hey, this is
Speaker 2: who we are, this is our audience.
Speaker 3: Well, who wants to do the work work?
Speaker 6: Dave Dave Shapiro, who is over there at Soundtown on Agency.
Speaker 6: He he he's been our agent for a very very
Speaker 6: long time in the US as an example, and probably
Speaker 6: our longest agent actually. Uh and so yeah, I mean
Speaker 6: you you just continue to try and do the work
Speaker 6: and to make sure that the relationship is productive and
Speaker 6: and you know sometimes sometimes you know, things run their
Speaker 6: course and sometimes things stay for a very long time.
Speaker 6: You just you can't always predict that stuff.
Speaker 2: But you need, yeah, you need. A very few things
Speaker 2: show up on your doorstep. I mean, here you are,
Speaker 2: here's a million. You know, very few things do. And
Speaker 2: while they do, you know, but you got to keep knocking.
Speaker 3: What about management? Management is looking at it right now.
Speaker 3: You know, we've had several different managers over the years,
Speaker 3: and I think it's what's most important. I think about
Speaker 3: who your team is is that just like your band
Speaker 3: is the same people, but they evolve and they acquire
Speaker 3: new skills and acquire new needs. You may be with
Speaker 3: someone that you like that is no longer the right person,
Speaker 3: or you may no longer be the right leadership for
Speaker 3: yourself anymore and need new ideas and need to bring
Speaker 3: people in. So right now and for about what is
Speaker 3: it seven? I mean our structure we have been self managed,
Speaker 3: and so we make the choices, and we have people
Speaker 3: who work for us who you you throw your ideas
Speaker 3: at and you go what do you think you know?
Speaker 3: And you get feedback like you might get from a manager.
Speaker 3: But I would say we are painfully independent. Sometimes they're
Speaker 3: on detriment and that's just become. I think the way
Speaker 3: we've realized, at least for this moment, that was what
Speaker 3: was going to keep us driving. We didn't want to
Speaker 3: be fighting other people's ideas. We wanted to create a
Speaker 3: ship and say everybody get on board that that is
Speaker 3: into this idea that wants to go to this place.
Speaker 2: I think another way to talk about it, too, sorry
Speaker 2: cut you off an is to say a lot of
Speaker 2: times the systems, the way manage the way banns, you know,
Speaker 2: architectures work is you have an artist and artists gets
Speaker 2: an agent for touring and to get a label for
Speaker 2: release is they get a manasure for general organizational management
Speaker 2: and soliciting and helping them build a career. And then
Speaker 2: you have publicity, and you have all these pieces and
Speaker 2: they're all valuable, but they tend to the artist tends
Speaker 2: to feel kind of like you're getting to be a
Speaker 2: part of somebody else's infrastructure, which which makes sense, you know,
Speaker 2: and a lot of cases artists really just they want
Speaker 2: to go in the studio, write a song, submit it,
Speaker 2: get somebody else's feedback. A lot ofis they're insecure generally naturally,
Speaker 2: and so they don't want to carry the office and
Speaker 2: the fulfillment for merchandising. And we've we have wonderful people
Speaker 2: in our team, but it's not structured in the same
Speaker 2: way the traditional management work. We have a great GM
Speaker 2: that runs operations and she's a really big part of
Speaker 2: a lot all the things we do. And we have
Speaker 2: a great publicist, and we have a great label partner.
Speaker 2: We have this it's a little more like an entrepreneurial
Speaker 2: sort of This is our our sort of HQ. It's
Speaker 2: all in sort of one umbrella. But it is interesting
Speaker 2: because you know, it causes constantly you're you're having to
Speaker 2: ask those questions. I mean, you're kind of always having
Speaker 2: to ask who.
Speaker 3: Else do we have? And what else do we need?
Speaker 2: And who else could be bringing things to the table,
Speaker 2: because you know, that's the process of a career is
Speaker 2: you know, is kind of how do you how do
Speaker 2: you keep telling a story? Like back to touring thing?
Speaker 2: How do you keep telling stories? Not just showing up
Speaker 2: and doing the same rints and repeat?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 1: Okay, how many people are permanently on the hands and payroll?
Speaker 3: I think it's ten? Yeah, it's about ten, and then
Speaker 3: there are.
Speaker 1: That including the band.
Speaker 3: I guess it's not including.
Speaker 1: Okay, So what are those ten people do? How did
Speaker 1: the division? How does it work?
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, there's a lot more administration than you wish there was.
Speaker 3: You kind of wish it was ten ten creative people
Speaker 3: with cameras and videos. It's it's mostly admin. So within
Speaker 3: the fan club there's two over there, Within the label
Speaker 3: kind of marketing there's about three. There's several accountants for
Speaker 3: you know, keeping taxes and budgets and and it kind
Speaker 3: of goes like that.
Speaker 6: And then there's just mostly thesigning department.
Speaker 3: You're looking at the marketing department and the most of
Speaker 3: the creative and then there's a great designer that does
Speaker 3: a bunch of our design and content who still he's
Speaker 3: the greatest designer ever. He's very he's very multi capable.
Speaker 3: Is that a word? And you got interesting? But the
Speaker 3: other thing is okay, go ahead.
Speaker 1: Okay, how did you find these people? And did they
Speaker 1: all work in one location?
Speaker 3: Almost all are in in Oklahoma. You know the thing
Speaker 3: about finding people, it's it's like putting together a band.
Speaker 3: You can you can do it a lot of ways.
Speaker 3: Several of them are family. So our dad was an accountant,
Speaker 3: and so he very very quickly in our life, just
Speaker 3: just took on that role. It's funny he was ready
Speaker 3: to not do the other thing that wasn't that interesting.
Speaker 6: It's because of his art, is because of his it's
Speaker 6: because of his frustrating artist sidety.
Speaker 3: He will be in a terrifying to be your kids
Speaker 3: accountant and help them run their business and not.
Speaker 6: St well, I completely agree with that, but he's a
Speaker 6: But our dad is a CPA.
Speaker 3: He's a certified public account He's always been in that
Speaker 3: place for us. I would call him more of a
Speaker 3: business manager than simply an accountant, just sort of somebody
Speaker 3: there with no desire except for to help you be successful.
Speaker 3: And so he's been at that role. Our sister at
Speaker 3: fifteen was like, Hey, can I come on tour and
Speaker 3: sell T shirts? And then it was about a year
Speaker 3: later we're like, wow, you're still here. She's really good
Speaker 3: at it. Helps run a huge part of the online community.
Speaker 6: She's not fifteen anymore. No.
Speaker 3: A lot of cases, it's people that you discover through
Speaker 3: just we needed a tour manager, and then that person
Speaker 3: we're like, we like you, you want to stick around,
Speaker 3: You've got a desire to do more than that, and
Speaker 3: so I've you know, I think the thing about finding
Speaker 3: people is if you find good people, even good people
Speaker 3: with the wrong job will make that job work. And
Speaker 3: so it's it's more about just finding good people that
Speaker 3: work well together, that you like being around. Uh and
Speaker 3: talented people will will learn the new job or and
Speaker 3: I'll tell you what you're doing wrong.
Speaker 6: And crew is like that too, you know, like you
Speaker 6: find groups of people that you can really get along
Speaker 6: with well because you're on the submarine, as we jokingly
Speaker 6: call the bus as the submarine for you know, weeks
Speaker 6: and weeks on end sometimes months on and so Submarine.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think I think you know the
Speaker 3: right when it comes to touring. You know the right
Speaker 3: people oftentimes by the way they treat your equipment. Right.
Speaker 3: So half the times when you bring on a new guy,
Speaker 3: you go, who don't dinged up this guitar? What happened
Speaker 3: to that case? And you see it's it's they don't. Well,
Speaker 3: they're the accountant. That's the problem. Realize when they don't,
Speaker 3: when they treat it like they won't be there tomorrow,
Speaker 3: that's a sign that they don't want to be there tomorrow,
Speaker 3: and so you're looking for that in people who wants
Speaker 3: to be here. It's it's not a there's no guarantees
Speaker 3: and truth be told, it's not a I wouldn't call
Speaker 3: our business a growth business where people are coming in
Speaker 3: going okay, where am I going to be in ten years?
Speaker 3: What's the next position in the next pay grade? In
Speaker 3: the back end. It's not corporate, it's not like that.
Speaker 3: We always hope to grow, but it's more of a
Speaker 3: relationship business, not surprisingly, more familial. It is something like, hey,
Speaker 3: when you come in, we want to take care of you.
Speaker 3: We want to you know, whenever we win. We want
Speaker 3: you to win.
Speaker 1: Okay, how much do you pay your father to be
Speaker 1: the account.
Speaker 2: I think we have to probably probably draw the line
Speaker 2: at actual, actual dollars shared in.
Speaker 3: The well do you pay him a?
Speaker 1: Is he your only client? B? Do you pay him
Speaker 1: a percentage? See? Do you pay him a salary?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 6: No, we pay him a salary? And sorry, is comparable
Speaker 6: to ours?
Speaker 3: Yeah? And it's it's always been, I mean a little less.
Speaker 2: But there again, when you own your business, you know
Speaker 2: and the and part of the way we've designed the
Speaker 2: structure of things again is to say, well, hey, we're
Speaker 2: we know what labels do, and we know what artists do,
Speaker 2: and can let's be as strategic about how when we
Speaker 2: sell a record or sell a tour, we want that
Speaker 2: we want to step back and be like, what's the
Speaker 2: best way to use the success of that project. And
Speaker 2: so you know, your team, you need, you need people
Speaker 2: to feel you need you need a certain amount of
Speaker 2: people that are going to come on and cycles. You know,
Speaker 2: people that come on to help you do certain things.
Speaker 2: But then you need your core team just to feel
Speaker 2: safe and secure. And so salary's and benefits and the
Speaker 2: things you do as a team as are important for
Speaker 2: people to wake up.
Speaker 3: And we when we first got our first record deal,
Speaker 3: and this is the late nineties, everything was about percentages.
Speaker 3: Every but he wanted percentages, and everybody wanted you know,
Speaker 3: suns antuity, perpetuity. Everyone's percentages and perpetuity.
Speaker 6: And we were allergic to those two piece stories to value.
Speaker 3: So, you know, when there was nothing that could be guaranteed,
Speaker 3: we paid our data percentage because there was no label.
Speaker 3: We weren't independent, we were signed to something. You know,
Speaker 3: he quit his job to help us do our things
Speaker 3: and go, here's a percentage. You're going to be treated
Speaker 3: like a manager. But more and more, what we've tried
Speaker 3: to do is move things away from that kind of
Speaker 3: risk and that kind of relationship. We'd rather continue to
Speaker 3: create the sense of we're all here earning today, working today.
Speaker 3: As an artist, I think that's more important to think
Speaker 3: about where you are than kind of what you have
Speaker 3: in the bag. That's what keeps you hungry. And from
Speaker 3: a business point of view, I think we can't take
Speaker 3: as many risks when the percentages are all eaten up.
Speaker 3: Oh there's that guy from twenty years ago that's still
Speaker 3: making ten percent off of the thing well he earned
Speaker 3: it in perpetuity. Well, you've got to find a way
Speaker 3: to go like, hey, we can't one of the best
Speaker 3: things down by those kind of risks because we continue
Speaker 3: to have to earn it. It's there's no but this
Speaker 3: isn't toilet paper selling one of the bestop don't just
Speaker 3: buy it just because every day it happens. They you
Speaker 3: have to keep engaging people. I'm just going to say.
Speaker 2: One of the best things about being able to have
Speaker 2: that mindset is having assets, you know, being writers, being
Speaker 2: creators that created it in the first place. And some
Speaker 2: of the best counsel we got very early on was
Speaker 2: things like, don't sell your publishing, you know, and and
Speaker 2: even what is publishing?
Speaker 3: How does that work? You know?
Speaker 6: And thank you Bill Covin, Yeah, and thank you Jim Holming.
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly. They'll just pass and Jim are still going,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: And I think learning how to have assets that have
Speaker 2: something to pay out over time. That isn't just I
Speaker 2: showed up and I worked, but building you know that,
Speaker 2: It's like having a good investment and something that's stock
Speaker 2: or bond, it's it's out there doing its thing.
Speaker 3: At some level. It exists.
Speaker 2: You made it, so that that's allowed us to think
Speaker 2: a little more about long term because you have a
Speaker 2: song that is maybe going to be in a film,
Speaker 2: maybe going to be played on the radio, maybe going
Speaker 2: to be you know, out there, you know, find it's made,
Speaker 2: maybe be covered by somebody. So and of course master
Speaker 2: ownership as a label wants you own master's that's also huge.
Speaker 2: But just that what Zach is talking about, having that
Speaker 2: mindset of like what is going forward and what is
Speaker 2: sustainable and resources, like that's a huge springboard.
Speaker 1: I think, Okay, do you have to work or is
Speaker 1: there enough money been earned over time that you don't
Speaker 1: have to work and you just love to work?
Speaker 6: The short answer is, the short answer is if you
Speaker 6: stop working, you'll die. I mean meaning no matter what,
Speaker 6: you should always be working because it keeps the joy.
Speaker 6: I think going in a.
Speaker 3: Lot of this is a brother This is where the
Speaker 3: brothers probably have slightly different answers. The short answer is
Speaker 3: we wouldn't have to work, yes, But the short answer
Speaker 3: is also some of us couldn't stop working, right uh.
Speaker 3: And I think, like for myself, I would probably if
Speaker 3: we said okay, band's over, we're stopping, I mean I'd
Speaker 3: be working tomorrow, but it'd be on some other thing
Speaker 3: that just simply drove you. You couldn't sit down and
Speaker 3: go I'm retired. I'm going to read books for the
Speaker 3: rest or just mentor people. I'm like that I need
Speaker 3: to physically mentally create something. But we it's been Our
Speaker 3: career has been good to us. We've had the right people,
Speaker 3: tell us good decisions. We haven't made as much money
Speaker 3: as people probably think we have, but I think all
Speaker 3: of us.
Speaker 6: We've tried to make because haven't always made it.
Speaker 3: Yes, we could, we could not work. We could not work.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to the big hit on Mercury A.
Speaker 1: Are you still in a negative position or do you
Speaker 1: get royalties from Mercy?
Speaker 3: We got royalties, yeah, thankfully, Yes, it is all recouped.
Speaker 3: We had a big deficit because of the way our
Speaker 3: relationship with Island Jeff Sham sort of dissolved, dissolved, but yeah,
Speaker 3: we we are absolutely in the clear on that. Because
Speaker 3: Mercury Records they spent so much money on our third album,
Speaker 3: and to get out of that contract, we had to
Speaker 3: essentially say, okay, well it was kind of a weird situation.
Speaker 1: Wait, wait, you had to say okay, meaning.
Speaker 3: What meaning you let us go and we will let
Speaker 3: those records, those first two records and the Christmas album
Speaker 3: recoup that that huge deficit that you ran up against us.
Speaker 1: You remember how much that deficit was.
Speaker 3: We do, but we were not going to probably share
Speaker 3: that exactly it was.
Speaker 6: It was several undred thousand dollars. Let's just put it
Speaker 6: that way. I would but what I would put it,
Speaker 6: but I want to put would put against that though,
Speaker 6: is we did because of the pay or play clause.
Speaker 6: There was a degree to which that also they kind
Speaker 6: of owed us money as well. So it was kind
Speaker 6: of a back and forth where we said, listen, we're
Speaker 6: gonna let this be paid off by the royalties, but
Speaker 6: you still owe us some cash because you stiffed us
Speaker 6: on a bunch of things and we know it. And
Speaker 6: so it was kind of like a wee, you lose
Speaker 6: some kind of thing.
Speaker 3: The biggest gift. Wha, wha, wha.
Speaker 1: What did they stiff you on?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 6: Well, they they there were definitely yeah, oh man, I
Speaker 6: mean there there were definitely some things that we probably
Speaker 6: could have audited them for. Let's just put it that way,
Speaker 6: because they were spending money, you know, recklessly and we
Speaker 6: knew it. But then they also, you know, six weeks
Speaker 6: into the release of the second record, we're like, yeah,
Speaker 6: your career is over, and we're like, what's so it
Speaker 6: was a it was a it was a contentious situation.
Speaker 3: Frame framing the overall.
Speaker 2: So, you know, the culture that we left, one of
Speaker 2: the reasons we chose to start a label is is
Speaker 2: this culture of, uh, you're with a corporation, which you're
Speaker 2: grateful that you have this big something behind you, which
Speaker 2: is great, we've got a major leal, but now you're
Speaker 2: with a corporation, it's not the corporation that signed you.
Speaker 2: And so here's Hanson. We've sold millions of records, we
Speaker 2: have fans all over the world. So were the kind
Speaker 2: of a's like someone holds an asset, but they really
Speaker 2: don't know what to do with it. And so the
Speaker 2: culture that we were in was kind of chase you know,
Speaker 2: the latest whatever the latest hit maker was, or that
Speaker 2: in the writer or the producer and kind of without
Speaker 2: really understanding what it is we're all trying to do
Speaker 2: for a career, and we were watching the budgets go
Speaker 2: up and up and up and up, and sort of
Speaker 2: just like we're never going to recoup any of this stuff,
Speaker 2: and you guys don't know why sort of what you're
Speaker 2: leading us towards, and so that that decision back to
Speaker 2: what we were talking about, is really just about I mean,
Speaker 2: the dollars are all way more than they should be
Speaker 2: in the major label world. They're just sort of spent rest,
Speaker 2: especially then we're talking about early two thousands, but our
Speaker 2: and late nineties, our decision was kind of predicated on
Speaker 2: that base level thinking of we got to change the
Speaker 2: way that is being considered everything is this like if
Speaker 2: we just you know, we're just waiting on one hit
Speaker 2: song or waiting on one particular like trend versus the
Speaker 2: heroes of ours, which of course had pop hits, but
Speaker 2: the heroes of ours as a career are Wow, here's
Speaker 2: where's you know we want to one day you know,
Speaker 2: fingers crossed only as as your your your icons. You know,
Speaker 2: it's the people that have had careers like the Sprigstines,
Speaker 2: like the Petties, like the U two's that have had
Speaker 2: you know, journeys forward, many of which I mean billy
Speaker 2: joels where you go look absolutely hit songs of course
Speaker 2: critical big labels, but in the end, it's still a
Speaker 2: it's a sense of a longer view of where you're
Speaker 2: going and being able to take that risk with the
Speaker 2: you know, joining the risk not being sort of just
Speaker 2: you know, the ship is turning and you're just hoping
Speaker 2: you don't tip over.
Speaker 3: So the so the challenges.
Speaker 6: Everything Taylor is saying is true, right, but there are
Speaker 6: some other factors that you have to remember. So this
Speaker 6: is so when we started our label three cGy Records
Speaker 6: back in two thousand and three, two thousand and four,
Speaker 6: we were coming out of a record label merger that
Speaker 6: happened in nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 3: It was the largest corporate merger in musicustry.
Speaker 6: At that time. I'm getting to that, but but specifically
Speaker 6: what happened was when we when that did second record
Speaker 6: didn't go well because the label was not they they
Speaker 6: saw a big like a big potential check, but they
Speaker 6: didn't know what to do with it. But then you
Speaker 6: come into that third record and they kind of they
Speaker 6: kind of said your career is over. On at the
Speaker 6: beginning of the second record, we're like, what the heck
Speaker 6: are you talking about? And that's a whole other conversation
Speaker 6: all together, but specifically in two thousand and one, two
Speaker 6: thousand and two, two thousand and three, huge numbers of
Speaker 6: friends of ours on a variety of different labels, but
Speaker 6: specifically in that label group, we're all stuck in this
Speaker 6: crazy scenario where they're making records multiple different times, like
Speaker 6: the same record over and over and over again, or
Speaker 6: different variations of the same record with different producers. I mean, like,
Speaker 6: we know a couple of people that made like basically
Speaker 6: the same record three times. Like, so this was the
Speaker 6: scenario they were in where they were and we were
Speaker 6: kind of faced in observing with a similar similar situation,
Speaker 6: not the same we didn't fall into that particular trap,
Speaker 6: but but a similar situation where labels were kind of
Speaker 6: in a sense willing to spend a ton of money,
Speaker 6: but they didn't seem to know where they wanted to
Speaker 6: go with it. And so so that's why.
Speaker 3: And it's ultimately your money. It's ultimately your money. Specifically,
Speaker 3: it's not a company.
Speaker 6: It's not a company, but it was specifically unique at
Speaker 6: that time, there were a large number of people that
Speaker 6: were going through that. That is particularly why we started
Speaker 6: a label and said, listen, we don't want to get
Speaker 6: stuck in a situation like that because, as the old
Speaker 6: phrase says, necessity is the mother of invention. The necessity
Speaker 6: for us was not getting stuck in a multi year
Speaker 6: process where we couldn't put out music because our fans
Speaker 6: are going, where the heck are you guys, Where the
Speaker 6: heck are you guys? Where the heck are you guys,
Speaker 6: And we're like, we're trapped. We can't get out, and
Speaker 6: so we so, you know, and that's also why, that's
Speaker 6: also why the unique scenario of our structure as a
Speaker 6: band and the way that we have employees and don't
Speaker 6: necessarily have management on a percentage in the traditional way,
Speaker 6: is because again, you know, necessity has some other invention.
Speaker 6: We've made some specific shifts feeling like we needed stability
Speaker 6: and consistency because, not surprisingly, the last twenty five years
Speaker 6: in the music business has been fairly tumultuous. You know,
Speaker 6: there's been a lot of ti are you're talking about.
Speaker 6: The artists that we admire and love had a much
Speaker 6: more stable record label kind of business in the sense
Speaker 6: that they were selling product, they were selling records, they
Speaker 6: were selling CDs. It was a consistent kind of we're
Speaker 6: selling a medium, you know, and then this these evolutions
Speaker 6: in the last twenty years or so have been unique upending.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's there's a lot of stuff here. Let's go
Speaker 1: to the publishing for a minute. How do you split
Speaker 1: up the publishing between us?
Speaker 3: Between the three of us, we made sort of a
Speaker 3: plan early on that it really didn't matter who wrote
Speaker 3: the songs if if it was being released under the
Speaker 3: name Hansen, it was going to be a third to
Speaker 3: third to third.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so it's a third to third to third.
Speaker 1: You're gonna go on the road, You're gonna make a
Speaker 1: certain amount of money. Is that money distributed? You basically say, okay,
Speaker 1: here are the costs we pay off all the people
Speaker 1: on the payroll. There's x amount each get a third
Speaker 1: and you spend it, do whatever you want with it,
Speaker 1: or do you keep a certain amount in the coffers?
Speaker 1: And if you want money you have to ask your dad. Welcome,
Speaker 1: I have money, and let's put it on the try.
Speaker 1: Yeah I got it. The other person didn't.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Our business is a little bit corporate in the maybe
Speaker 3: unexpected sense. We pay ourselves a salary. So the band
Speaker 3: we own what would be considered a touring company and
Speaker 3: a merchandise company and a record label and a publishing company,
Speaker 3: and those companies have a hierarchy of what they pay.
Speaker 3: And then if we have good years, if we have
Speaker 3: years we go, wow, we did really well above then
Speaker 3: that gets into point where you do distributions. So really
Speaker 3: mostly the income from touring, the income from things flow
Speaker 3: into the companies. We set at the beginning of each
Speaker 3: year what the salary is for the guys who are
Speaker 3: running it, which would be us, and then if there
Speaker 3: are wins, that becomes distributions, that becomes bonuses things like that.
Speaker 3: That's a little bit, a little bit of a fusion.
Speaker 1: Okay, if you live in a neighborhood, there might be
Speaker 1: a guy who drives and asks and Martin. There another
Speaker 1: guy might drive a twenty year old Prius h Do
Speaker 1: you look at each other and say, well, man, he's
Speaker 1: spending a lot, he's too tight and he needs to
Speaker 1: spend more.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 3: I don't even know if, because it is incredibly true
Speaker 3: that despite growing up in the same bedroom, you know,
Speaker 3: wearing oftentimes the same clothes, same brand, same everything, we
Speaker 3: don't spend our money the same way. We don't value
Speaker 3: the same kinds of things. And I think the best
Speaker 3: example of that I would have is in recent history.
Speaker 3: I just built a house that I've been wanting to
Speaker 3: build for seventeen years, have been married almost twenty I've
Speaker 3: been thinking about building this house for years and years.
Speaker 3: And I built a house and Taylor bought a bus. Right,
Speaker 3: they cost the same amount of money? Do they have
Speaker 3: the same resale value? Do they have the same bill?
Speaker 2: Zach's house actually wheels underneath his though it's weird.
Speaker 3: So he wants to go on an adventure, right, And
Speaker 3: I want and build a sanctuary, right And and you
Speaker 3: that's that's a hard thing because sometimes, you know, adventure
Speaker 3: wants to do things that have more risk, and sanctuary
Speaker 3: doesn't want to risk anything at all.
Speaker 6: And I, unfortunately spend money on convenience.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, No, I think is the most whoa whoa.
Speaker 1: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa. Why did you buy a bus, Taylor?
Speaker 1: And have you use the bus?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Cautless, I bought Well, I have seven children, first
Speaker 3: of all.
Speaker 2: And I mean there's in fact, it's a question of
Speaker 2: why didn't we buy a bus twenty years ago?
Speaker 6: Actually because actually the Bay probably should have bought a
Speaker 6: bus about twenty There's actually it's interesting I mean, we
Speaker 6: spent in the whole treery industry.
Speaker 2: People LEAs buses, which makes sense because they're new and
Speaker 2: they're up to date and stuff. But you know, there
Speaker 2: are the rock guys, you know there there's country guys,
Speaker 2: a lot of them as well. That too, were consistently
Speaker 2: than at buying bus. I remember thinking, like they bought
Speaker 2: the bus, why they're buy the bus particularly, I've really bought.
Speaker 3: It for my family.
Speaker 2: Firstly, my wife and I always she's always enjoyed were
Speaker 2: We feel like we sort of move best as a
Speaker 2: unit when we're kind of a little more mobile. It
Speaker 2: seems something about it just simplifies life a little bit.
Speaker 6: They both have itchy feet, that's the short answer.
Speaker 2: And and we have seven kids, so meet with tour, uh,
Speaker 2: you know, being able to have them also at least
Speaker 2: have the option to really be with and just kind
Speaker 2: of a little bit more on our own sort of
Speaker 2: you know itinerary so to speak.
Speaker 3: But but yeah, driven.
Speaker 2: Actually the year that Zach started building his house is
Speaker 2: just getting close to being done now, and that we
Speaker 2: started I bought a bus.
Speaker 3: It is a good comparison.
Speaker 2: I drove the bus on the tour that we were doing,
Speaker 2: so I would drive the bus, own bus driver. I
Speaker 2: drove the bus, did the show, crashed for a few hours,
Speaker 2: woke up and drove to the next city and loved it.
Speaker 6: Yeah. But and then you actually ended up saving the
Speaker 6: tour because we had like the last bust in the
Speaker 6: United States that I happened to have a bad axle.
Speaker 3: And right, Yeah, we had a bus accident.
Speaker 2: It's the only one have we There's never been another
Speaker 2: actual bus accident. We had a truck hit our main
Speaker 2: tour bus. And the thankfully just I mean just gift
Speaker 2: from God that I was had a bus and that
Speaker 2: we the last few shows. We in this particular case,
Speaker 2: we're pulling all of our equipment in a large trailer
Speaker 2: behind the main band bus and cooked it onto mine
Speaker 2: and you guys hopped on planes. We finished the tour.
Speaker 3: But last week it's it's a yeah, it's a great
Speaker 3: I love it. See.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go are you're going to say that.
Speaker 6: Year I bought a new Forerunner, Yeah, after having won
Speaker 6: twenty years?
Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, let's go back to the management thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there are different types of managers. There are managers
Speaker 1: of focus on creative, managers of focus on touring other
Speaker 1: people who were dreaming up new ideas.
Speaker 3: Yeah, business.
Speaker 1: What roles do each of you play in the management operation?
Speaker 6: Well, first of all, give kudos to Rebecca Sarkar, who's
Speaker 6: our GM. She does all the logistical things day in
Speaker 6: and day as far as scheduling is concerned. You know
Speaker 6: she's going to be the one that goes, hey, guys,
Speaker 6: that's too much on the list. You guys know it. Right.
Speaker 6: Of course, we're always tending to actually put too much
Speaker 6: on the list anyway.
Speaker 3: So while we have very distinctly different personalities and needs
Speaker 3: and it fits well with our instruments, I think, and
Speaker 3: so I would describe it mostly that way. Taylor is
Speaker 3: like pianos, like composers, trying to dream up the biggest
Speaker 3: life changing thing possible, use all eighty eight keys. If
Speaker 3: it's not scary, it's not that interesting. And so he
Speaker 3: likes to go big. And and so Isaac I think
Speaker 3: is best when he is playing the role that a
Speaker 3: lead guitar should play, which is it's really the accompaniment.
Speaker 3: It's the embellishment, right, And so it's not always this way,
Speaker 3: but a lot of times it's a big Taylor idea,
Speaker 3: and it's an Isaac going, oh, that's really cool. That
Speaker 3: connects here, here, and here, and then I'm pretty much
Speaker 3: the one going like, hey, guys, we are not going
Speaker 3: to do that. That's expensive. That sounds way into.
Speaker 6: We've got to make it more efficient, like drilling down.
Speaker 2: That's an interesting description, Yeah, and I think there's a
Speaker 2: lot a lot of truth to that. And I think
Speaker 2: particularly we we found we found some really core business
Speaker 2: that people know, but things like merchandising and fulfillment and
Speaker 2: fan club you know, that's that's a whole world, you know,
Speaker 2: and that's you know, Zach particularly has always been an artist,
Speaker 2: so he's engaged. When you think about management, management is
Speaker 2: usually takes on the kind of infrastructure that is sort
Speaker 2: of the business, and a lot of artists don't carry
Speaker 2: as much of their office, so to speak, their home office,
Speaker 2: and so we we have some of the components of
Speaker 2: the overall business. It's all in our roof, and so
Speaker 2: there is a little bit of the bridge between that
Speaker 2: creative the band's job and who the manager is off
Speaker 2: and sort of grabbing and so our natural giftings kind
Speaker 2: of you know, connect to those things.
Speaker 3: I think I think because of being the artist, a
Speaker 3: lot of the creative stuff becomes assumed, becomes built in.
Speaker 3: It's like these days you expect all cars to have
Speaker 3: an automatic transmission and electric windows and an air conditioner.
Speaker 3: Our creative process is not the same as the administrative process, right,
Speaker 3: and so in that sense we almost I think there's
Speaker 3: some flipping on its head.
Speaker 6: Ye.
Speaker 3: You know, Isaac as a creator when it comes to
Speaker 3: the world, he's not having a good time unless he's
Speaker 3: not thinking about the rules at all. He just wants
Speaker 3: to feel it. And Taylor wants to get nitty gritty
Speaker 3: and stop everything until everything is done and in its place.
Speaker 3: I don't want to work on the next process because
Speaker 3: the first when it comes to as an administrator, he goes,
Speaker 3: it's not scary enough, it's not big enough. When it
Speaker 3: comes to the creative process, he goes, I haven't finished
Speaker 3: making it perfect and big. And I flipped to the
Speaker 3: other side and go, man, you gotta be more scared.
Speaker 3: You got to finish faster, you gotta go you gotta
Speaker 3: be crazier, because it's sort of the other side of
Speaker 3: that brain that that changes the way we work, and
Speaker 3: it can be hard to bring both those things together.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he's in really super interesting articulation, and
Speaker 2: I think again points to that being a band on
Speaker 2: creatives and having these, you know, the management function within
Speaker 2: your shop, the lines are a little different. I think
Speaker 2: I'm the old than the typical I guess, or the
Speaker 2: standard I think for our industry.
Speaker 6: Sorry, I think I'm the only one in the band
Speaker 6: that particular has an interest in actually being an engineer,
Speaker 6: like a recording engineer. Yeah, even though I think you
Speaker 6: guys are all capable of it in some capacity or another.
Speaker 2: I think I'm always been a technical like you really
Speaker 2: like to troubleshoot, I mean mixing engineering, recording like that's
Speaker 2: I think it's really fun for me.
Speaker 1: Okay, you guys finish each other sentences. I have two sisters.
Speaker 1: We don't get along all the time. Doesn't mean we're
Speaker 1: not fan we don't talk. Yeah, so am I seeing
Speaker 1: the moment of harmony? Is it always like this or
Speaker 1: you're arguing? You talking every day or you're not talk
Speaker 1: for a month. What's going on between the three of you?
Speaker 2: I think it's a mix. I mean we have we
Speaker 2: have some serious challenges. We have some deep conflicts of things,
Speaker 2: you know, and I think as you got older too,
Speaker 2: you know, you evolve, right, people have you start in
Speaker 2: the same bedroom, in the same bunk beds, and you have.
Speaker 6: A lot less responsibilities.
Speaker 2: But I would say for me, there's a deep there's
Speaker 2: a deep respect between us. Like I mean, even when
Speaker 2: we really disagree and we we have some things that
Speaker 2: we you know, like man, that's just not a priority
Speaker 2: for me. We have a deep respect that has been
Speaker 2: earned frankly over a lifetime, you know. And I like
Speaker 2: to say that, you know, it's.
Speaker 3: Like I can make fun of my brother, but you can't.
Speaker 3: You know. It's that it's that spirit.
Speaker 2: It's that like you know, the like the group of whatever,
Speaker 2: pick your ethnic core group of that came you know,
Speaker 2: into New York City. It's like these are my you know,
Speaker 2: these are my cousins, and these are my there's that hey,
Speaker 2: this is my people, these are my you know, my family.
Speaker 2: So there's a blood is thicker than water thing that
Speaker 2: I think has been true. But we have very very
Speaker 2: different I mean zachly describing the business side, I mean drummer,
Speaker 2: keyboard player, guitarist as our primary there's that's kind of
Speaker 2: that's kind of who we are, and even our personal
Speaker 2: lives and our business lives and our music. I mean,
Speaker 2: those relationships, those dynamics. You know, we do not agree
Speaker 2: on a lot of things. But I think that's partly
Speaker 2: why we can be somewhat of a unit, because we're
Speaker 2: not actually a lot of times in the same lane.
Speaker 3: I mean, is that fair?
Speaker 6: Well, where it gets complicated is that Zach plays guitar
Speaker 6: and keyboard too, and you play drums and keyboard and
Speaker 6: guitar too.
Speaker 3: And you play keyboard.
Speaker 6: I played guitar, guitar most of the time, keyboards sometimes,
Speaker 6: But I particularly would love to just engineer and mix
Speaker 6: records and tell you guys what to do.
Speaker 3: So if they only listen to their big brother, if
Speaker 3: they only listen to when we talk about our relationships, right,
Speaker 3: the one relationship most people understand that is like this.
Speaker 3: There are not many working relationships that last from your
Speaker 3: youth to your old age. And we have the chance,
Speaker 3: if we want to, to probably still be doing this
Speaker 3: another thirty to forty years from now.
Speaker 6: Right, is terrifying.
Speaker 3: Right if you look at a band like Three Dog Night, right,
Speaker 3: those guys are you know, which we love and we
Speaker 3: just saw that Danny is in his eighties and he's
Speaker 3: still on stage, and you look at the Beach Boys,
Speaker 3: and you know.
Speaker 6: Doc guys are in their eighties.
Speaker 3: Doctor Love is in his eighties.
Speaker 2: Even the Doobies who were just with Michael McDonald and
Speaker 2: the Wonderful for such a great band in their seventies
Speaker 2: and they're still killing.
Speaker 6: So man, they were so good.
Speaker 3: I think it's about the ability to communicate that really
Speaker 3: makes the difference between the relationships that last and the
Speaker 3: relationships that fail. And that's true of marriages, and that's
Speaker 3: true of bands, that's true of business partners, and so
Speaker 3: you I think for us though, we are very far
Speaker 3: from perfect. Starting at a very young age, learning to
Speaker 3: express your feelings, learning to write into a story that
Speaker 3: is understandable, the thing you're going through, the way you
Speaker 3: feel about that girl, the person you want to punch
Speaker 3: in the face, whatever that feeling is, has been a
Speaker 3: hugely beneficial thing to our relationship as as brothers. And
Speaker 3: so sometimes the therapy session is taking place in the
Speaker 3: interview right sometimes, And sometimes the therapy session is taking
Speaker 3: place in the song that is on the record right Wow.
Speaker 3: Sometimes that a song a couple of years ago that
Speaker 3: I started called change right And at that moment, that
Speaker 3: song was probably written directly directly to Isaac and Tailor like,
Speaker 3: why don't you stop doing that stuff?
Speaker 2: I've been really seriously, please stop it.
Speaker 3: I would I would say it is the relationship with
Speaker 3: brothers is easy when we are doing the things we
Speaker 3: have trained ourselves to do so well, which is to
Speaker 3: be on stage playing those roles, playing those songs. And
Speaker 3: it's it's hard when it is just theoretical. It's hard
Speaker 3: when it is not about the dream and the story
Speaker 3: and it's just about people's perception and what we want
Speaker 3: to get done. And that's not unique. We're brothers. We fight,
Speaker 3: we have really hard times. My wife would say, I
Speaker 3: don't know how you are capable of going to the
Speaker 3: office and having a five hour argument and then going
Speaker 3: back to the office the next day. How have you
Speaker 3: not quit? And I go like, I just thought that
Speaker 3: life was about struggling together. You know, life is so
Speaker 3: often about struggling together. And that's written into our masochism,
Speaker 3: that's written into our music, that's written into you know,
Speaker 3: our beliefs in the world, like, struggle is not the enemy. Struggle,
Speaker 3: the question is what you're struggling for?
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, how long might it be till you speak
Speaker 1: to one another or essentially connecting, you know, text message whatever,
Speaker 1: every day.
Speaker 2: I mean, it honestly depends on the season. I mean
Speaker 2: there are times like because we work creatively, and a
Speaker 2: lot of times there's seasons of tour where we're with
Speaker 2: each other every day constantly. But I would say there's
Speaker 2: there when there truly are breaks, you know, and we're
Speaker 2: not in a big project. It could easily be a
Speaker 2: week or so, as far as it unless it's the
Speaker 2: requirement because we run a business.
Speaker 6: I think I actually texted you all week while you
Speaker 6: were going with your family, not directly.
Speaker 3: It's a hard one to define. It's a hard one.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of there's a lot ofstical communications about
Speaker 2: you know, by choice versus by responsibility.
Speaker 6: Okay, so by choice never by responsibility all the time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, let me here. Here's here's the it's different entire Isaac.
Speaker 3: Isaac had to confine me. I just moved. I spent
Speaker 3: about two weeks moving from one house to a new house,
Speaker 3: and Isaac had to call me like, dude, are you
Speaker 3: moving all the furniture by yourself? I'm like, maybe, He's like,
Speaker 3: are you not going to call me? I've got two
Speaker 3: teenage sons that are six y three, that are strong,
Speaker 3: like are you gonna am? I gonna find you underneath
Speaker 3: an armoiir like like dead, like bro call me So
Speaker 3: I think, I think it's different for each of us,
Speaker 3: but we get such a saturation that I as a
Speaker 3: general rule, it's it's hard to find the difference between
Speaker 3: family and work. And it's been that way since I
Speaker 3: was literally six years old. Right six years old, we
Speaker 3: play our first concert as the Hanson Brothers, and that's
Speaker 3: us just singing a cappella. And since that day we
Speaker 3: have been called brothers by our family, the brothers. We
Speaker 3: have a fourth brother. He's not included in the brothers.
Speaker 3: There's an entity that is Hanson that exists within the family,
Speaker 3: and then there is something else, and it's not always clear.
Speaker 3: We don't.
Speaker 2: Since it's a reminder, it's important to a reminder. We
Speaker 2: also have wives and children and and talking about what
Speaker 2: he's saying, like the difference, you know, hard to draw
Speaker 2: a line. One of the things that I think in
Speaker 2: a good way has amplified and also increases the gap
Speaker 2: of Hey, I'm the challenge. You haven't heard from me
Speaker 2: for a while. I wonder, well, you're literally you're the
Speaker 2: dad of a whole crew. You're a dad of a crew,
Speaker 2: and that keeping that sort of other sort of fiefdom alive.
Speaker 2: In a band like this, which is so connected and
Speaker 2: so you know, integrated, you have to sort of be
Speaker 2: You really have to take you really have to seek
Speaker 2: that time because there are there's so many blurry lines
Speaker 2: like we even you know.
Speaker 3: The short answer is we have never gone had a
Speaker 3: period without some show to do, some business, meaning to
Speaker 3: have that was long enough to discover how long it
Speaker 3: would be before we text each other. Right, There's never
Speaker 3: been more than about maybe two weeks. In the last
Speaker 3: there was a two years where there wasn't a band
Speaker 3: thing to do.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's let's switch gears a little bit, one by one, Isaac,
Speaker 1: When did you meet your wife?
Speaker 6: So? I met my wife on September nineteenth, two thousand
Speaker 6: and three, at the New Orleans House of Blues. She
Speaker 6: was at one of our shows on our Underneath Acoustic tour. Right,
Speaker 6: I think it's on Decatur Avenue over there. I love
Speaker 6: New Orleans and anyway, she was there with two friends.
Speaker 6: One of her friends is very tall. She's a little
Speaker 6: an inch taller and has platinum blonde hair, and then
Speaker 6: my wife has kind of brunette blonde hair and is
Speaker 6: about an inch.
Speaker 3: Sure, trying to paint a picture for the.
Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly. And so I just they were kind of
Speaker 6: right about center in the in the crowd, and I
Speaker 6: noticed her and couldn't stop staring at her. And I
Speaker 6: think it was really awkward for her. According to her report.
Speaker 3: It was awkward for everyone.
Speaker 6: And and so yeah, I made sure she didn't leave.
Speaker 6: I had to go to a great effort to get
Speaker 6: to believe it or not, I had to go to
Speaker 6: great effort to get her attention, because I think she
Speaker 6: didn't want the attention.
Speaker 1: She's what exactly did you do and how did you connect?
Speaker 3: Oh? Well she was.
Speaker 6: So she's pretty much dead center in front of me
Speaker 6: at this particular, you know, set of shows, because I
Speaker 6: was in the center of the band set up. I
Speaker 6: was in the center of the stage and the acoustic tour,
Speaker 6: and so she was right in the center. She's probably
Speaker 6: about five six people back, and I basically just sang
Speaker 6: every single song straight at her.
Speaker 3: Yeah, didn't you practically call security on her? No? No, no,
Speaker 3: I did, I did.
Speaker 4: She was believe.
Speaker 3: Somebody get the bouncer she's already asked, can't leave the show,
Speaker 3: and you're gonna have to break your neck to get her?
Speaker 6: No, I I fold tilt, like, I threw a guitar
Speaker 6: pick at her, hit her with it, and I was like, yeah,
Speaker 6: you go over there, you know, And she was like huh.
Speaker 6: And then she started to leave and I panicked, and
Speaker 6: so I got one of the local security.
Speaker 3: People to go find you, go find her.
Speaker 6: I was like, see those two people the blonde plot
Speaker 6: and blind must meet them. Yeah, and so I kind
Speaker 6: of I'm a hopeless romantic and so uh and I
Speaker 6: was clearly hopeless stoppless that night. But anyway, it worked out.
Speaker 3: Which is so interesting because okay, who whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 1: You're obviously interested, You're smith, you have the security rainer in,
Speaker 1: You're now face to face. Is she into you?
Speaker 6: She she is enough to stick around, you know. I
Speaker 6: mean we spent all we spent like.
Speaker 3: Calm down, slow down, and answered the question.
Speaker 6: Yes. I mean the short answer is yes. I mean yeah,
Speaker 6: she she she'd take care of number.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I gave her.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, but you're in a touring rock band. She
Speaker 1: lives in New Orleans, how do you sustain the relationship
Speaker 1: and keep it going to the point you get married?
Speaker 6: On the phone? Uh? And also I went to see her.
Speaker 6: She's actually originally from Panama City, Florida.
Speaker 2: Real quick, you just occurred to me, are you guys
Speaker 2: feel recording visuals on your side? I just no, okay,
Speaker 2: because he's read yeah, no, no.
Speaker 1: No, That's what the internet is for.
Speaker 6: So on the phone, you know, that's how you stay
Speaker 6: in touch. And I went to see her several different times, uh,
Speaker 6: right after we'd met. And then I, you know, I
Speaker 6: brought her out to shows, you know, uh, in New York,
Speaker 6: in Michigan, in different places, and you know, we'd stay
Speaker 6: in touch. In fact, actually, at one point over the
Speaker 6: course of a summer, she actually moved to Oklahoma for
Speaker 6: like three months because we just hadn't been around each other,
Speaker 6: and I was just like, well, we got to figure
Speaker 6: out if this works, you know. Interestingly enough, I accidentally
Speaker 6: broke up with her at.
Speaker 3: That particular, accidentally broke up with her. He's a mess.
Speaker 3: I'm a mess.
Speaker 6: He's a mess. It's a wonder that.
Speaker 1: She Oh, since everybody's talking about what do you mean
Speaker 1: you accidentally broke up?
Speaker 6: Well, I broke up with her a couple of times
Speaker 6: over the course of that three year period before we
Speaker 6: got married. Why because life is complicated and my wife
Speaker 6: is an introvert and I'm a severe extrovert, and so
Speaker 6: when we were on the phone together, it was it
Speaker 6: was always a little bit harder on the phone, but
Speaker 6: when she was with me, it was really easy and
Speaker 6: it was really fun, and so it just the difference.
Speaker 3: Was just really instance. I think you know exactly why
Speaker 3: by your meeting of her in the first place, which
Speaker 3: is she's standing in the center of the crowd. You
Speaker 3: are beaming at her with laser eyes, and she's going,
Speaker 3: who me, No, I'm not sure. This is a lot
Speaker 3: of attention, This is a lot of energy, right, Yeah,
Speaker 3: and yeah it works when it worked.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, okay, what was she doing? How old were
Speaker 1: you at the time? How old was she? And what
Speaker 1: was she doing in Panama City?
Speaker 6: Okay? So yeah, So she and her friends had come
Speaker 6: to New Orleans to see our show because her best
Speaker 6: friend was a big Hanson fan, and so they decided
Speaker 6: we're gonna have a girl's weekend and go to New Orleans.
Speaker 6: She is nineteen, her other friends are nineteen, so they
Speaker 6: go to the show and spent a few days in
Speaker 6: Orleans and I was twenty two.
Speaker 3: Yeah like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I tell okay, you're the oldest brother.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: The band has this incredible success no one around the
Speaker 4: world in a way that no one is today. Yeah,
Speaker 4: to use the vernacular of rock and roll, did you
Speaker 4: take advantage of this?
Speaker 6: Well, we would have killed him, They would have They
Speaker 6: would have killed me. Yeah, No, I did not. I
Speaker 6: did not take advantage of it. Uh. You know, I
Speaker 6: have a really good relationship with my mom, and my
Speaker 6: mom made it very clear that she did not want
Speaker 6: her sons being reckless with their relationships and and with
Speaker 6: with women. She would basically imply something to the effect of,
Speaker 6: treat her like you would like you would treat me,
Speaker 6: and or like you would treat your sisters and uh
Speaker 6: and be respectful. So yeah, I was. I was respectful
Speaker 6: of the uh of the distance that was necessary.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, how many children do you have now?
Speaker 6: My wife and have three kids. We have a seventeen
Speaker 6: year old, a sixteen year old, and a ten year old.
Speaker 1: And what are they up to?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 6: Well, my oldest son, Everett really loves guitar. God bless him.
Speaker 3: Poor guy.
Speaker 6: He plays very very well, and he does have he
Speaker 6: does have a songwriting skill and his kind of honing
Speaker 6: those skills. I think if he wants to put in
Speaker 6: enough work to really do it, there is definitely a
Speaker 6: chance that he could make a career in music if
Speaker 6: he's willing to work hard enough. My other son, Monroe,
Speaker 6: is sixteen years old, and he's again, both my sons
Speaker 6: are about sixty three and big kid, very athletic. He
Speaker 6: throws a baseball really hard. He throws like eighty two
Speaker 6: eighty three miles an hour, you know, and he's and
Speaker 6: he just turned sixteen, so yeah, yeah, and your daughter's
Speaker 6: just and your third child, My third child is her
Speaker 6: name is Odette, and she's ten, and she is a
Speaker 6: major extrovert and just loves people and sings whenever she
Speaker 6: wants to and is a lot of fun. But she's ten,
Speaker 6: so you know, figure aspiration.
Speaker 3: It's so funny. We're not allowed to say she's just ten.
Speaker 3: I mean, at ten years old, we had already been
Speaker 3: doing the band for four years and and I mean
Speaker 3: we almost had a record deal, we'd already had I think,
Speaker 3: what she's got to pick this thing? You're speaking to
Speaker 3: something that Everett says.
Speaker 6: To me and goes, dad, do you have any idea
Speaker 6: how much pressure it is to be your son at seventeen?
Speaker 1: That's okay, Let's let's switch to Taylor. Man, how did
Speaker 1: you meet your wife?
Speaker 2: Well, you're gonna sense a theme. I met my wife
Speaker 2: at a show as well, I guess technically, Well, so
Speaker 2: she and her friend. Again, there's a pair they were
Speaker 2: at We did a sohole series of promotion events to
Speaker 2: our second tour, and we told a series of marketing
Speaker 2: events with Macy's department stores, and her and her friend.
Speaker 2: Her friend was a local model, and they were both
Speaker 2: there and they we did a whole show like there's
Speaker 2: a little local modeling show with our event we did,
Speaker 2: and they came to the show, the actual concert we did.
Speaker 2: They're from Atlanta that night?
Speaker 3: Was it that night? That sex day? Then the next
Speaker 3: day and and this is two thousand, so I could.
Speaker 2: Say I was sixteen, she was sixteen, and she was
Speaker 2: you know, super super cute, and we met after the show,
Speaker 2: and basically I was so uninterested in dating or frankly, again,
Speaker 2: here we are with with with lots of female fans.
Speaker 2: Of course, I mean we're that does not go by
Speaker 2: missed by us, but in a way like now they
Speaker 2: think about it, it's kind of wild. I We're just
Speaker 2: still who we are, Like I was so focused on
Speaker 2: what we were trying to do and like basically beating
Speaker 2: the odds as a band. Like girls were, I mean beautiful. Frankly,
Speaker 2: we've seen a lot of beautiful girls. Like That's one
Speaker 2: of the great gifts of getting to do what we
Speaker 2: do is yes, we've seen a lot of beautiful girls,
Speaker 2: but no interest frankly really in you know, chasing and
Speaker 2: particularly and this met my wife names Natalie and Starr
Speaker 2: after the show, and she was just we just clicked immediately,
Speaker 2: I mean almost too Like I couldn't even try and
Speaker 2: you know, turn off the connection I had. It's like
Speaker 2: when you meet somebody and you immediately feel like you
Speaker 2: know them and you know and and we had the
Speaker 2: craziest and most rock and roll thing that happened immediately
Speaker 2: after the show. I can't still can't even believe this
Speaker 2: was happening. So we played the Tabernacle Theater that night
Speaker 2: in Atlanta, amazing theater. I love that place. And underneath
Speaker 2: in the club below us was was Mick Taylor from
Speaker 2: The Rolling Stones doing a solo show and somebody said, hey,
Speaker 2: Mick Taylor for the Rolling Stones is downstairs plane.
Speaker 3: We're like what, and so we just we rocked down there.
Speaker 6: Most of the crew.
Speaker 2: It was like a like a weird almost famous situation,
Speaker 2: like what is happening? So we immediately just we just clicked.
Speaker 2: And I joked that she totally played me early on
Speaker 2: because she was super super cute and and of course
Speaker 2: I was really not frankly interested in girlfriends or relationships.
Speaker 3: It was like band, a band, band.
Speaker 2: Or nothing, you know, And and she totally threw in.
Speaker 2: She knew that we loved rock and roll, in classic
Speaker 2: rock bands, and and she told me she like Steppin'
Speaker 2: Wolf and she went down like the sixties bands.
Speaker 3: I was like, man, this girl's amazing. Who is it?
Speaker 3: She's she's incredible. So we she'd done her homework.
Speaker 2: But you know, the thing is she she and I
Speaker 2: I would really say, I am just so blown away
Speaker 2: by like the life I've had now. You know, we
Speaker 2: got married before I was twenty two and a half years.
Speaker 2: You know, we were never together more than nine days
Speaker 2: prior to getting married. We got decided we got married,
Speaker 2: and the thing was we'd already lived so much life.
Speaker 2: We dated remotely, just like Ike when he was talking
Speaker 2: about you're living this remote life. You know, she's flying
Speaker 2: back and forth. You're teenagers, and it's does it. There's
Speaker 2: no comparison. I don't know anybody that I can even
Speaker 2: talk to about the relationship dynamic we had because it's
Speaker 2: so odd, but it worked because it for us, it
Speaker 2: was like we immediately had this And I don't know
Speaker 2: if proof for other things, but with Natalie and I,
Speaker 2: we just really immediately sort of were in friends. It
Speaker 2: was like you just kind of had a click and
Speaker 2: you just rolled easily together. And here I am, you know,
Speaker 2: twenty three years later with seven child.
Speaker 1: So you're you're you're married just before you're twenty years old?
Speaker 1: How long until you have a kid.
Speaker 3: Right out of the gate? And yeah, they're at that
Speaker 3: age when everything works, you know, it just all works.
Speaker 1: You know, how many kids do you have?
Speaker 6: Have?
Speaker 3: Seven?
Speaker 1: Is there any reason you have seven as opposed to
Speaker 1: two or eleven? Well?
Speaker 3: You know, science mostly No, I don't didn't take biology
Speaker 3: and homes you know.
Speaker 2: We just we always loved I would say this, Yes,
Speaker 2: obviously we could have you know, could have not had
Speaker 2: more children. We could have had one, two, three. You know,
Speaker 2: obviously everybody knows how that works. But I think we
Speaker 2: both found Natalie and I have both found that we
Speaker 2: really liked that, We really enjoyed it more than either
Speaker 2: one of us thought. She was one of those people
Speaker 2: that I think thought she would be like super career,
Speaker 2: like she's super nerdy, smart historian into that she likes,
Speaker 2: she's bookish, you know, and me here I am we're
Speaker 2: doing our thing working since I was nine.
Speaker 3: But we I think we both found we just really
Speaker 3: liked it.
Speaker 2: And my the accidental thing for me that that has
Speaker 2: now occurred in a big way is I also realized
Speaker 2: how much kind of the life we've led there's a
Speaker 2: lot of connectivity to the chaos of big familydom.
Speaker 3: You know, it's this sort of.
Speaker 6: Well a big family.
Speaker 3: We're part of a big family.
Speaker 2: We're three of you know, with the three oldest of seven,
Speaker 2: and so we just really started we enjoyed them and
Speaker 2: we thought five five was like a real line in
Speaker 2: the sand, like we were good. Five was an amazing group,
Speaker 2: and it just it was like we both felt like
Speaker 2: maybe there was a little more to this story, so
Speaker 2: that the.
Speaker 6: Bigger kids as a surprise.
Speaker 3: It's less of a surprise. Actually, Okay, it really wasn't
Speaker 3: it really was.
Speaker 2: It was the least surprise actually, of the over the
Speaker 2: kind of having kids was was number six.
Speaker 3: And I think, you know, it's interesting.
Speaker 2: I never would have sought thought if you go back
Speaker 2: to me as a teenager or young you know, younger
Speaker 2: than a teenager, even thinking oh yeah, I'm gonna have
Speaker 2: seven kids.
Speaker 3: But it's a blast.
Speaker 6: I would have never thought you would.
Speaker 1: Okay, it's a lot of fun. So you have seven kids?
Speaker 1: What are their ages and what are they up to?
Speaker 3: Twenty one? My oldest is biggest passion is piano and music.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: My second is she's kind of a curator. She's like,
Speaker 2: she likes films, she likes fashion. She's you know right,
Speaker 2: she's probably not college bound, it's just not her things.
Speaker 2: She's kind of interned and worked on film and fashion
Speaker 2: things and styled a little bit. She's into photography, so
Speaker 2: she's our third is definitely a musician. He's a drummer
Speaker 2: or just kind of one of those kids that just
Speaker 2: picked stuff up and you go like, how did you
Speaker 2: when did you learn to do susophone? Like that kind
Speaker 2: of not actually susophone, but he's just one of those
Speaker 2: people that is musical like that. Zach has one like
Speaker 2: that that's just like figure stuff out. My fourth is
Speaker 2: also super creative. I realized I was not saying names.
Speaker 2: Ezra Penelope River is my three, and Vigo is our fourth.
Speaker 2: He's fifteen and just got his drivers permit today and
Speaker 2: super creative. Also always says I had a really pragmatic mind,
Speaker 2: like very ambitious, like always had. I was watching a
Speaker 2: video of him talking about building weather domes like when
Speaker 2: he was thirteen, Like he's just interested in stuff.
Speaker 6: He's ambitious and analytical.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And then my number five will Almina. We call
Speaker 3: her Willa.
Speaker 2: She's always been sort of a drama queen, like in
Speaker 2: the sense of liking drama, like acting comedy, like she's funny.
Speaker 2: She puts on little shows and she's super good.
Speaker 3: She create drama in your house.
Speaker 2: Yes to a degree, but she but she is actually
Speaker 2: really creative. She she makes like puppet shows and writes
Speaker 2: stories and always that's always been her.
Speaker 3: I mean.
Speaker 2: Then Indiana is our number six. Now my wife jokes
Speaker 2: that like I put it in order for him, like
Speaker 2: I ordered him, like by mail. Because he's this, you know,
Speaker 2: he just he's a high energy she too smart for
Speaker 2: his own good, ready up, ready for anything, super extroverted.
Speaker 2: And then our youngest, Willowmita is the golden child. Truly
Speaker 2: is spoiled for life. She she is adored by everyone
Speaker 2: to the point that like, man, you are so but
Speaker 2: truly she is actually incredibly her middle name is joy
Speaker 2: and she really is a like incredibly joyful human. I
Speaker 2: don't think that's just for being a seven child, it's
Speaker 2: just her personality. So yet to know because she's three.
Speaker 2: You know, we'll see what she does. But so, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's a big group of people, and we talk about
Speaker 2: this because there's twenty five or six cousins between all
Speaker 2: of us. Between all of us, it's amazing how you
Speaker 2: can have the same you know, pair of parents in
Speaker 2: these different clusters and you still have all these such
Speaker 2: completely different kids, like they have their own Like how
Speaker 2: did you get that combination?
Speaker 3: Like I'm not it still blows my mind.
Speaker 1: Okay, Zach, how'd you meet your wife?
Speaker 3: As third? So in Taylor's story, there was a model
Speaker 3: that brought his wife to our concert. My wife is
Speaker 3: the model, so basically I met her then I was
Speaker 3: about fourteen and I was dating another girl, but it
Speaker 3: was immediately clear that I'm like, I just need to
Speaker 3: know you. And about a year later we started dating,
Speaker 3: and about six months later I knew I was going
Speaker 3: to marry her. But at fifteen and a half, it's
Speaker 3: usually frowned upon to get married. And so she was
Speaker 3: in college, she finished her finest degree, went to school
Speaker 3: just on scholarships and things, and so we said, hey,
Speaker 3: you're just going to finish school. So at twenty we
Speaker 3: got married.
Speaker 1: We are the she was also how old was she twenty.
Speaker 3: Two twenty when we got married, so two years a
Speaker 3: little older, same age, went to high school with Taylor's wife.
Speaker 6: Actually interesting that all of our wives are basically exactly.
Speaker 3: This tells me the maturity life all of the brothers exactly.
Speaker 3: You know, we are probably like I said, like the most,
Speaker 3: I don't want anything from my kids. I just want
Speaker 3: him to love the act of caring for other people
Speaker 3: and and find something that inspires them and makes them,
Speaker 3: you know, have the opportunity to be with people. You
Speaker 3: do want them to be respectful. That's difficult, That's what
Speaker 3: I mean. And so we have we have five kids.
Speaker 3: We've been married eighteen years and Shepherd is sixteen, and
Speaker 3: I have no idea what he's going to do. What
Speaker 3: I do know is he's probably a genius. I just
Speaker 3: can't figure it out. He's incredibly kind. This dude. He's
Speaker 3: just like when he gets into something, it is unbelievable
Speaker 3: how much he knows about it.
Speaker 6: I wonder where he gets that from.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Junior, our thirteen year old daughter is we finally
Speaker 3: found an ath and the family. So she's way into athletics,
Speaker 3: and you know, they're all just awesome. Abraham's are third.
Speaker 3: He's the musician in the family. He ever decides he
Speaker 3: wants to. It's interesting to see because I see a
Speaker 3: very similar child to myself. You know, I never would
Speaker 3: have been in a band if if these guys didn't
Speaker 3: need help. That's sort of the story of the Hanson
Speaker 3: brothers is is Isaac and Taylor were actively singing and
Speaker 3: wanting to sing, and my mom came over and said, Zach,
Speaker 3: your brothers need your help, and so I came to sing.
Speaker 3: And he's sort of that way. Abraham is ten. He's
Speaker 3: named after Aba Boreol Junior and Able Boreoal Senior. Two
Speaker 3: amazing musicians we just love obviously the father of all
Speaker 3: the religions, Abraham's interesting to look at a guy he's
Speaker 3: about to turn eleven, and that's the age I was
Speaker 3: when I really probably people knew the band Umbop came out.
Speaker 3: I was eleven into twelve, And to look at him
Speaker 3: and go like, you've got all of that stuff that
Speaker 3: we were doing. I wonder when and what it will
Speaker 3: take for you decide you want to do something with it,
Speaker 3: because it's such a different thing. And then my younger two,
Speaker 3: Lucille and Quincy, are named for another amazing musician, Quincy Jones.
Speaker 3: You know, like who knows, they're just their kids. They're
Speaker 3: seven and three and beautiful and full of their own
Speaker 3: ideas and incredibly opinionated, just like their father. And I
Speaker 3: apologize to their mother every day. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 6: Well, I will say also to your younger three are
Speaker 6: definitely more extroverted than the older two.
Speaker 3: The older two are a little more.
Speaker 6: Shy and a little more to themselves.
Speaker 3: Not a surprise that the guy who spends his career
Speaker 3: behind a cage is more introvertied and has more introverted children.
Speaker 3: But I think you know, the main thing with all
Speaker 3: of it is really provide them every opportunity possible and then,
Speaker 3: if possible, teach them that life is not about getting
Speaker 3: what you want, but about what you want to work for.
Speaker 3: And you know that's really it, you know, I mean,
Speaker 3: it's the best lives are lived in some service to something,
Speaker 3: service to greater humanity, service to a greater craft, but
Speaker 3: certainly not service to your own needs, to your own wants.
Speaker 3: It's living for something bigger egos, a bit destructive. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and that's what we're trying to do.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to the three of you. Tell
Speaker 1: me about your education. Did you go to school, did
Speaker 1: you graduate?
Speaker 3: What happened? It's full of a lot of holes and
Speaker 3: then a lot of specialization. That's what I would say.
Speaker 3: We are in Oklahoma. I don't know if this is
Speaker 3: still true. At the time, Oklahoma was the only state
Speaker 3: or one of the only states that has homeschooling in
Speaker 3: the state constitution, and so that's where we grew up.
Speaker 3: And so home was a big deal a lot for
Speaker 3: religious reasons, people who want to teach their kids the
Speaker 3: way they see the world, but also in our case,
Speaker 3: it really played a huge role in the freedom to
Speaker 3: take time out of regular school days and spend that
Speaker 3: doing things that wouldn't normally be allowed, like being in
Speaker 3: dance class and music classes, playing concerts in the afternoon,
Speaker 3: places where other kids were in school, practicing music. You know,
Speaker 3: our parents very quickly said, like, this is part of
Speaker 3: your education. They were fairly big into the arts. Our
Speaker 3: mom was a vocal major in college, went with a
Speaker 3: scholarship to North Texas State. So they loved plays, they
Speaker 3: loved drama. Our dad took dance in college and then
Speaker 3: decided to be instead of account and so it was
Speaker 3: like they saw it as valuable that we would sing
Speaker 3: and play. And well, if anyone who has multiple children
Speaker 3: knows that if your kids are doing something together without fighting, right,
Speaker 3: that's that's productive. You pretty much will move mountains just
Speaker 3: to let them do that together. And so that's what's working.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 3: You definitely had some holes in our You guys stick more.
Speaker 3: You know, we did more science than you did, a
Speaker 3: lot more science.
Speaker 6: Science was almost non existent, certainly, plenty of literature, certainly,
Speaker 6: plenty of history, certainly, plenty of art related kind of
Speaker 6: going to the louver and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: Once we broke especially, we were traveling.
Speaker 6: Well and again we were I was sixteen, so is
Speaker 6: that couldn't even in high school yet, and we're going
Speaker 6: doing those things, you know, And I would have been
Speaker 6: I would have been a sophomore in high school when
Speaker 6: the first record broke, so you know, you're doing our
Speaker 6: mom was really good at shall we say, making school
Speaker 6: lessons out of life experiences, so she would be the
Speaker 6: one that would say, no, we got to take the weekend,
Speaker 6: you know, or take a day off and take the
Speaker 6: boys to this thing or that thing. They got to go,
Speaker 6: you know, to a play, they got to go see
Speaker 6: the louver. They gotta go see.
Speaker 2: But none of us have college degrees, and you know,
Speaker 2: whatever high school is, you know, very.
Speaker 6: I think I think technically want to officially have a
Speaker 6: high school diplomas.
Speaker 3: Because we were working so much. When I was about fifteen,
Speaker 3: we realized that I could get emancipated and that would
Speaker 3: allow me to work more than just short four to
Speaker 3: six hour days on movie sets. It's more about that
Speaker 3: supervised and and so you could actually work as an adult.
Speaker 3: So at sixteen, I graduated from high school and was emancipated,
Speaker 3: and so that was like a freedom suddenly. Education and
Speaker 3: time with school teachers at the tonight show didn't have
Speaker 3: You could choose to do what you want, and of course,
Speaker 3: you know you're already at this point that would have
Speaker 3: been working on our third album, not including Live Almos
Speaker 3: none teen Christmas albums. You know, we toured all over
Speaker 3: the world, and you kind of go, do you really
Speaker 3: need to be going to school or are you already
Speaker 3: in some weird form of business school because you're learning
Speaker 3: your business that you already have a business you're running.
Speaker 2: I will say this though, I think one of the
Speaker 2: things that I see a lot is so non traditional
Speaker 2: in our education paths.
Speaker 3: So what do I know?
Speaker 2: But it's just interesting because it seems like what happens
Speaker 2: a lot of times with many school pathways is people
Speaker 2: get told a curriculum and they finish the thing, and
Speaker 2: they have a thing that they finished with it go,
Speaker 2: I graduated X, Y, and Z. But learning to be
Speaker 2: a learner is not necessarily something that happens, you know,
Speaker 2: teaching keep training the idea of learning and so maybe
Speaker 2: purposeful but also somewhat accidental. Probably in the path we've
Speaker 2: led is that sense of creatively pursuing things, being curious
Speaker 2: and having a mind that's interested in driving your own education.
Speaker 2: Driving learning is something we we had by choice and
Speaker 2: by I think the nature of our existence as a
Speaker 2: touring band that broken traveled and and so that's interesting.
Speaker 2: There was always an interest in reading, There was always
Speaker 2: an interest in discovery. I mean it was never it
Speaker 2: was never about you know, get this, you know qualification clearly,
Speaker 2: but and I'm grateful for that. And that is something
Speaker 2: that when you do see it in your kids, and
Speaker 2: you don't always see it sometimes it's a real hard
Speaker 2: thing to do. But when you do see those glimmers
Speaker 2: of why you're interested in learning stuff, that that's an
Speaker 2: that feels like success because I know for me, learning
Speaker 2: never stops. I mean, you don't hit like life throws
Speaker 2: different requirements at you. And so it's it's the site
Speaker 2: learning always.
Speaker 3: See one of the things you see I think in
Speaker 3: us as an as a father, right, you start looking
Speaker 3: at kids and how they're educated, and you go, oh, right,
Speaker 3: we're all dyslexic pretty much. And it suddenly makes sense
Speaker 3: why music was such a natural draw, right.
Speaker 1: It because stilling sucks.
Speaker 3: That lets a brain so well that when you could
Speaker 3: you could combine the exercises of looking at a sheet
Speaker 3: of music, hearing it and and sort of performing it,
Speaker 3: understanding the relationships. Music fit so easily and naturally as
Speaker 3: a place to focus your education and your interest, whereas
Speaker 3: other sciences and other things like I was such a
Speaker 3: late reader, you know, I mean I was probably fifteen
Speaker 3: before I was reading at some high you know, grade
Speaker 3: level of a middle schooler. You know, it was such
Speaker 3: a hard thing for me. But music was so natural.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I struggled similarly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, let me ask you. Everybody in the family,
Speaker 1: all seven kids, were they all homeschooled from day one?
Speaker 6: Yes, yeah, actually, well probably the person well the younger was, yeah,
Speaker 6: from day one, and then some of the younger ones
Speaker 6: have gone to college, you.
Speaker 3: Know, a high school, grade school. So the only thing
Speaker 3: that wasn't Isaac and Taylor, we we lived overseas because
Speaker 3: our dad worked for an oil company before the band,
Speaker 3: and so when we were living overseas, you guys were
Speaker 3: in sort of missionary schools, right, A lot of those. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I just mean it's a lot of like English, you know.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, they were just yeah, they were just well
Speaker 6: they were mostly just schools oriented towards the either the
Speaker 6: drilling field that was that we were living on yeah,
Speaker 6: or or in that or in the one in Quito.
Speaker 2: It was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was more of like an international a little
Speaker 3: bit of actual structured school. Yeah.
Speaker 6: I enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's only what about your kids? Are they home school?
Speaker 1: Do they go to school, public, parochial?
Speaker 2: I mean, a man of us have done every I'll
Speaker 2: just speak from mine. We literally have done every version.
Speaker 2: We've done private, public, home co ops between multiple families.
Speaker 2: I mean we've done and it's been in seasons too.
Speaker 2: Some kids took really week well to certain things and
Speaker 2: they thrived in particular paths. Others didn't do particularly well,
Speaker 2: so yeah, or that was just not their their path.
Speaker 2: So we've done everything, honestly, Yeah, every version.
Speaker 6: Yeah, might have predominantly been in private school, but then
Speaker 6: they've also moved to in high school years have moved
Speaker 6: away from that to more of like a three day
Speaker 6: a week, which is more like a co op type thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, my kids are in private school. You know, that's
Speaker 3: really honestly, it's such a our traveling relationship with our families,
Speaker 3: where you're gone multiple months at a time. It's you
Speaker 3: really look at your wife and you go say, hey,
Speaker 3: I will do everything I can, but I can't do
Speaker 3: much when I'm not here, right, and so you're going
Speaker 3: to have to be the the one that makes this
Speaker 3: decision and what's right. So, homeschooling is so family led.
Speaker 3: It's like when somebody says, you know, I'm joining the
Speaker 3: Boy Scouts. You go, no, no, no, your parents are
Speaker 3: joining the Boy Scouts because they run everything. Homeschooling is
Speaker 3: really if you have that energy, that desire and so
Speaker 3: so we've been in private schools and also I think
Speaker 3: it's really I'm not we're not Catholic, but Catholic schools.
Speaker 3: My kids have been in Catholic schools because there's such
Speaker 3: an emphasis on sort of traditional things away from screens,
Speaker 3: which I think is really valuable. I love screens, but
Speaker 3: I love the idea that they're actually learning how you
Speaker 3: write cursives. What a concept.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back. You mentioned religion. So when you're
Speaker 1: growing up, how much was religion's part of your lives?
Speaker 3: Well, mean, that's religion is a funny word. I mean
Speaker 3: our faith being Christians as the core of everything. I mean,
Speaker 3: it's not part of our lives. It sort of is
Speaker 3: your life because it's what you believe and so that
Speaker 3: that's played a huge role, I think partly in things
Speaker 3: like the Fear. You know, this business being in the
Speaker 3: public eye is all about capturing your fifteen minutes and
Speaker 3: how long you can hold on to it. But as Christians,
Speaker 3: you go like, I'm not at home onto this no
Speaker 3: matter what I do, Like I'm not even here for this,
Speaker 3: And so it allows you to like go of it,
Speaker 3: I think in a really positive way and see it
Speaker 3: for what it is. Our dad would say things like, hey,
Speaker 3: remember you might never meet this person again, so treat
Speaker 3: them like like this is your one moment to make
Speaker 3: an impact on them positively in their life. And I
Speaker 3: think that's a really Christian idea, you know, which is
Speaker 3: just sort of see the image of God and every
Speaker 3: person you meet, and so like it's it's been a
Speaker 3: huge thing. And and when you hear a song like
Speaker 3: Umbop or Where's the Love or weird, like, I see
Speaker 3: think that the messages behind our songs. We don't write
Speaker 3: Christian quote unquote music, but we write music as Christian men.
Speaker 3: And so it's all about seeing the value you have.
Speaker 3: It's all about turning away from the me into the
Speaker 3: the we that we're supposed to be. You know, I
Speaker 3: was born, as one of our songs, I was born
Speaker 3: to do, to go to be, saying every single person
Speaker 3: has a purpose in the world. I mean, I know
Speaker 3: what I think your purpose is. Hopefully you will find
Speaker 3: what you think your purpose is. And mostly our purpose
Speaker 3: is to be positive influence on every people we come across.
Speaker 3: It is interesting too, because it is at the center.
Speaker 2: If you have a guiding sort of purpose that is
Speaker 2: tied to a belief, it is going to be in
Speaker 2: all things.
Speaker 3: Otherwise it's not really what you say it is. It's
Speaker 3: not your believe so it's you know, it's something what
Speaker 3: you do, not what you say.
Speaker 2: It's at the center of It's just the way you
Speaker 2: go out the world and when you feel loved and
Speaker 2: when you feel that you you're not an accident.
Speaker 3: You know you're not.
Speaker 2: You know that everybody has a reason and everyone is
Speaker 2: you know, been coming from a place of a loving
Speaker 2: God that brought you here. There's a sense of that
Speaker 2: that kind of changes the way you go about things.
Speaker 2: It doesn't mean you know. It mostly means you know nothing.
Speaker 2: You know like you don't know a lot of things,
Speaker 2: but you start with this sense of feeling that sense
Speaker 2: of purpose, which I think the word purpose is a
Speaker 2: you know, it's a pretty big one.
Speaker 6: I've had the blessing of through this crazy life we've lived,
Speaker 6: you know, met some some very remarkable monks along the way. Yeah,
Speaker 6: And I think when you meet someone that has dedicated
Speaker 6: their life to the service of others and to kind
Speaker 6: of seeking to be self less and get rid of
Speaker 6: as much ego as possible, it's a hard one.
Speaker 3: It's a really.
Speaker 6: Inspiring thing to see. And when you see that, hopefully
Speaker 6: you want to emulate that. And we've and we've you know,
Speaker 6: you just try your best to kind of to do
Speaker 6: those kinds of things and be as as close as
Speaker 6: you can do those things if it all possible.
Speaker 3: I mean, you've ben wear it all day. You've been
Speaker 3: wearing all black for like twenty years. You work your
Speaker 3: right there, Father Isaac over here.
Speaker 1: Okay, you guys live in Oklahoma. Oklahoma. Let's put it
Speaker 1: this way. Too many people seems kind of off the grid. Yeah,
Speaker 1: today there is no flyover country. Everybody has the same
Speaker 1: cable TV, everybody has the same Internet. You guys have
Speaker 1: been all over the world. You still live in Oklahoma.
Speaker 1: What the people who are not from Oklahoma, not get
Speaker 1: about Oklahoma.
Speaker 3: Well, what I say to people about Oklahoma is you
Speaker 3: don't live here because of the mountains, which there are no,
Speaker 3: or the coastlines that are beautiful, because there are none.
Speaker 3: You live here because of the people, and you like
Speaker 3: the way people treat each other and the values of
Speaker 3: people here. We also like the pioneer spirit. Right, it's
Speaker 3: inevitable that that DNA of those who came for the
Speaker 3: land run right, these wildcatters who were coming out to
Speaker 3: chase oil, Like it's bred into the state and the
Speaker 3: people that have generationally stayed here. You know, our family
Speaker 3: came from Scandinavia through Kansas to Oklahoma. And I think
Speaker 3: there's that self confidence that leeds into a lot of
Speaker 3: interactions that says, sort of, you aren't making me, I'm
Speaker 3: making me. So I feel the confidence to just treat
Speaker 3: you the way like a person, like a good experience
Speaker 3: and value that. I think the actual state model is
Speaker 3: labor conquers all.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So if that doesn't tell you, it's like called the
Speaker 2: dust bowl. Guys, we didn't get the memo. We just
Speaker 2: kept farming.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I often have friends. I often have friends who come
Speaker 6: here from you know, various places. You know, you know
Speaker 6: New York, you know, California, you know, London, whatever, you know,
Speaker 6: and they'll go, people are so nice here, and I'm like,
Speaker 6: it's not, it's not nice. It's that because people are
Speaker 6: genuinely rough. It's really real around here. It's that people
Speaker 6: are genuine and there's a difference real. The genuineness is
Speaker 6: when they ask you a question, they actually mean it.
Speaker 3: They'd like to hear an answer.
Speaker 6: Right, you know, as opposed to you know, it's it's
Speaker 6: not it's not glad hating and and and so you know,
Speaker 6: I think that's refreshing.
Speaker 3: I think when we travel as ay, that's true.
Speaker 6: Yeah, as a whole, there's oh yes there are there are,
Speaker 6: of course, but as an as a.
Speaker 3: On average, the handsome career is probably most accurately defined
Speaker 3: by the idea that we have defined what success means,
Speaker 3: right and for in a world where the biggest star
Speaker 3: in music still wishes they were also a movie star,
Speaker 3: still wishes they were also an entrepreneur, still wishes We've
Speaker 3: said that's not what we're We're not going to do that.
Speaker 3: We're not going to play that game where if you're
Speaker 3: not the biggest, you're you're always the worst. And I
Speaker 3: think living in Oklahoma is about saying like, we know
Speaker 3: where we want to be from. We want that to
Speaker 3: bleed into the sound of our music, We want that
Speaker 3: to bleed into the way we treat people, in the
Speaker 3: way we build our business, and say like we're from
Speaker 3: a place. And this has some limitations, but it also
Speaker 3: sets you free, I think in a really cool way,
Speaker 3: where you say you know, knowing who you are is
Speaker 3: half the battle of getting to where you want to go.
Speaker 6: Also, our manager, our very first manager, was a deadhead
Speaker 6: and really ingrained I think very strongly in us, very
Speaker 6: valuably that community that can be unity, that fan community,
Speaker 6: and the connection with the audience, and the idea that
Speaker 6: when you go to a Hansoon show, for example, you're
Speaker 6: not going to see the same show twice. And that's
Speaker 6: on purpose, you know. And and he him trying to
Speaker 6: kind of instill in.
Speaker 3: Us, hey, change it every night, change it as much.
Speaker 6: As you can, make it interesting, make it cool, you know,
Speaker 6: do what and and so we just we did that
Speaker 6: kind of thing as much as we could. We continue
Speaker 6: to do that even more obviously because its got a
Speaker 6: lot more material to pull off of, you know, from
Speaker 6: the early days to now. But and and our audience
Speaker 6: knows that about us. And that's why you'll see groups
Speaker 6: of friends sometimes even groups of couples that will go
Speaker 6: to you know, a couple of shows in a row,
Speaker 6: or even five shows in.
Speaker 3: A row, because they're there for each other, for each other,
Speaker 3: and they're there for.
Speaker 6: The experience, because they know you're not going to do
Speaker 6: the same thing tomorrow night.
Speaker 1: Okay. The business has completely changed from when m umbop
Speaker 1: or embop or everyone how do you guys? Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: when that was a giganta kit.
Speaker 3: So you make an album.
Speaker 1: Today, many people who rang the bell at the top
Speaker 1: of the business don't even make any new music because
Speaker 1: they feel it's so hard to be accepted, to get
Speaker 1: any traction. They'll just go on the road and play
Speaker 1: the old hips. What's the motivation to making a new
Speaker 1: album knowing no matter what you do, the audience is
Speaker 1: inherently limited.
Speaker 2: Well, so, first of all, you could start your podcast
Speaker 2: now and you could talk for an hour on this
Speaker 2: subject because obviously there's a million opinions about it and
Speaker 2: different takes on what's happened. But music is for one,
Speaker 2: I would say that it's not just about the business
Speaker 2: of music. Making music is not just for the business
Speaker 2: of music, and that's one really important thing. You're making
Speaker 2: music because you are music. You're you're a creator, you're
Speaker 2: an artist. So it's why as part of what helps
Speaker 2: you work through the universe, walk wake Up. Doesn't mean
Speaker 2: you have to make expensive albums, it doesn't mean that
Speaker 2: you can't play the hits. But the first reason is
Speaker 2: because that's who you are, and so and so part
Speaker 2: of the thing that we realize and was pointing to
Speaker 2: the community is that we recognize some here, some heroes
Speaker 2: we discovered like the Grateful Dead, who had these careers
Speaker 2: where they were creating a community. And so part of
Speaker 2: what we've realized is that we're making you're making things
Speaker 2: for yourself. Yes, you have to make a business. There
Speaker 2: has to be a you know, a tour and has
Speaker 2: to be in come, et cetera. But you're making things
Speaker 2: to tell that story and to take people with you.
Speaker 2: And so a fan is not just becoming a fan
Speaker 2: so they can hear the next pop song or their
Speaker 2: next hook. They're also there because they're you're sharing how
Speaker 2: you wrote it, you're sharing when you made it, You're
Speaker 2: you're sharing a clip of what happened in the studio.
Speaker 2: They're getting to connect with your journey.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 2: We now for for many years have have a structure
Speaker 2: where we make a particular project of five to six
Speaker 2: songs every year just for our paid membership, which we
Speaker 2: did pre Patreon, pre the you know sort of membership.
Speaker 2: We've been doing that and because we realized it wasn't
Speaker 2: just about putting out a song, it was about making
Speaker 2: the relationship be ongoing. It'd be like having a restaurant
Speaker 2: that stopped making you know there, you know, stop having
Speaker 2: dinner service because they had the same you know recipes
Speaker 2: like okay, there's a certain amount of recipes are always
Speaker 2: going to be there. But the chef restaurants, the chef
Speaker 2: shows up and says, oh, the special this week is
Speaker 2: this because they're a chef, and so you're you're always
Speaker 2: going to go back to the restaurant for the things,
Speaker 2: you know, but you want to get the specials, and
Speaker 2: you want to get the ceacl stuff, and you want
Speaker 2: to feel like you're connected. And that's the difference between
Speaker 2: a chain restaurant and a chef restaurant is is there's
Speaker 2: a chef in house, and so we you're making things
Speaker 2: because that's your story and it's what fuels the energy
Speaker 2: of the relationship with your audience. And when we do
Speaker 2: an annual event, we do a fan essentially like a
Speaker 2: Trickies Convention for Hanson fans, which is this frightening idea,
Speaker 2: but it's fans converge sort of for our anniversary as
Speaker 2: a band on a day that years ago, the governor
Speaker 2: of the state of our you know, declared Hanson Day
Speaker 2: as a kind of a commemorative and our fans kept
Speaker 2: celebrating it. So it became a kind of a birthday
Speaker 2: for the band, a Hansom Day, and so we have.
Speaker 6: Happened also be our actual birthday because we started.
Speaker 2: Doing the same, and so we we kind of we've
Speaker 2: embraced to the point that we can the sort of hey,
Speaker 2: let's host the party and let's celebrate with fans, and
Speaker 2: we watch people converge and we see that they're connecting
Speaker 2: to something that is not just about a song. They're
Speaker 2: connecting to each other. They're feeling seen, they're feeling like
Speaker 2: they're kind of found their tribe. And their tribe is
Speaker 2: a Brazilian and a guy from Chicago and a girl
Speaker 2: from London. A girl from Sweden and a girl from
Speaker 2: Detroit and a girl from Tulsa all hanging out. And
Speaker 2: that connection is part of why you make your own
Speaker 2: next thing as a creator, because you're sort of you're
Speaker 2: giving people a theme, you're sharing what you're going through,
Speaker 2: and business wise, it's completely upside down.
Speaker 3: It's totally upside down.
Speaker 2: I don't I but I mean it's upside down in
Speaker 2: the sense that that what used to make people really
Speaker 2: made fortunes selling albums and CDs, that there was a
Speaker 2: wave in the you know where it's really making is
Speaker 2: a good business to sell physical music that it doesn't exist.
Speaker 2: So it's really an advertisement for who you are and
Speaker 2: what you want people to connect with and be inspired
Speaker 2: by and get involved with.
Speaker 3: To even write a song is an exercise and being
Speaker 3: an entrepreneur, you have decided, despite the thousands and millions
Speaker 3: of songs in the world, that you have something to
Speaker 3: say that has a market that people need to hear, right,
Speaker 3: And so I think that's the reason why you keep
Speaker 3: making music. It is long, long, long term investment. You're saying,
Speaker 3: if I do something that is really good, and I
Speaker 3: say something that maybe really matters, and I throw it
Speaker 3: out into the world. It might not even be today
Speaker 3: or next year. It might be twenty years from now
Speaker 3: that it really matters. But if I continue to plant seeds,
Speaker 3: I will build this portfolio of for lack of a
Speaker 3: better word, truth, and people will find it when they
Speaker 3: need it. Now. Most things you do as a songwriter
Speaker 3: are not judged by whether they're as good as the other.
Speaker 3: They're judged by whether they're as successful as the other.
Speaker 3: But as a songwriter, you don't do that. You know
Speaker 3: that your best work is almost always the work that
Speaker 3: nobody knows about, and if you're one of those ones
Speaker 3: that's crazy enough to keep doing it, you live in
Speaker 3: this strange dichotomy of believing that the best work is
Speaker 3: the work you have never done yet, because you know
Speaker 3: how bad you were when you started, and you've been
Speaker 3: able to see your progression. Most people, you just don't
Speaker 3: get to see your progression as easily as the artist
Speaker 3: who gets to listen to that first song and go, wow,
Speaker 3: that was that's what I dis clear indication of yours.
Speaker 3: And so I think it's a hugely entrepreneurial spirit. When
Speaker 3: it's best, it is not self conscious at all, and
Speaker 3: we try our best not to be that, because if
Speaker 3: you were self conscious, you would stop. You would you say,
Speaker 3: there's no point in trying. It's going to fail again,
Speaker 3: because most things fail. Even on an album like Middle
Speaker 3: of Nowhere that sold eight million copies and was number
Speaker 3: one and had you know, had a bunch of top forties,
Speaker 3: it's remembered for one song. Yeah, there are twelve other
Speaker 3: really great songs, which and you could argue that well.
Speaker 3: And one of them was written by while in Man
Speaker 3: with Us, which is, you know, one of the greatest
Speaker 3: songwriting duos. It's a great song and it's probably a song.
Speaker 6: Oh no, no, it's certainly a better so in there,
Speaker 6: you know, and there Where's the Love?
Speaker 3: And you know, lyrics on that song are fantastic And
Speaker 3: so it's exercise in in believing in yourself and believing
Speaker 3: that you have more to give.
Speaker 1: Okay, tell me about this twenty year Is it a
Speaker 1: fan club where the people get five or so songs
Speaker 1: a year? How did that start? How many members are there?
Speaker 1: Do they pay? How does that work?
Speaker 3: So, I mean it started twenty years ago. It started
Speaker 3: actually as a magazine.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so it started it started as a magazine back
Speaker 6: in nineteen ninety eight. And it was called MO Middle
Speaker 6: of Everywhere, and so that had you know that we
Speaker 6: distributed around the world. That was complicated, as you can imagine,
Speaker 6: to kind of it was quarterly.
Speaker 3: It was quarterlyst example.
Speaker 2: I think we were inspired by you two, and we
Speaker 2: were inspired by a couple other bands. We had a
Speaker 2: touring sort of real real fan bases like they.
Speaker 3: Again, I think it had about twenty thousand paid subscribers
Speaker 3: to the magazine, which really felt like an amazingly huge number.
Speaker 3: Then it was a little more than that. Probably it was.
Speaker 6: More a little more than that, but either way, and
Speaker 6: then around and then that kind of number pretty much
Speaker 6: transferred over to Hanson dot net, which is what we
Speaker 6: currently have and have had for over twenty years. And
Speaker 6: that that initially started off as an internet service provider.
Speaker 6: We partnered with a company that provided dial up service
Speaker 6: and we built a community around that. And then and
Speaker 6: then a couple of years into that, we went independent.
Speaker 6: And so we started doing because we could, because we
Speaker 6: didn't have the label restrictions. We were like, Aha, we
Speaker 6: can finally do what we want to do, and so
Speaker 6: we just start We would put groups of songs together.
Speaker 6: In some cases it was demos that were kind of
Speaker 6: left from the record that we were working on. But
Speaker 6: then a handful of years into that, we started doing
Speaker 6: things like we would do songwriting retweets with other friends,
Speaker 6: and we would write and recordatos and things, and so
Speaker 6: you have extra content, and so we put some of
Speaker 6: those in a collection.
Speaker 2: And what we essentially were doing was a digital paywall site,
Speaker 2: you know, access to another second private side of a website,
Speaker 2: so that we could offer resources. We could offer Hey,
Speaker 2: if you are in a membership, we have your name,
Speaker 2: we have your information, we know you're a member, so
Speaker 2: we can give you a pre sale, we can give
Speaker 2: you access to meet and greets. And then we built
Speaker 2: bespoke a couple times now, but now the current engine
Speaker 2: is pretty powerful. A technology partnership with another company that'll
Speaker 2: just build a design custom you know e commerce and
Speaker 2: you know website that allows us to essentially a reward activity.
Speaker 2: It's like its own social media sort of community where
Speaker 2: people get points and tags and show activity in the community.
Speaker 2: It's it's really just a relationship that's deeper than I
Speaker 2: came to the site, and that through that pathway allows
Speaker 2: us to do to make things special like this tour,
Speaker 2: which just did or we just announced and it's coming
Speaker 2: this fall. You know, the whole room where you know,
Speaker 2: we're pre selling, giving special discounts to a fan club
Speaker 2: member so they can get to the two nights back
Speaker 2: to back for a lower discount products. They're getting it first,
Speaker 2: you know, they're getting the check ins at the shows to.
Speaker 3: Get first in line, you know, so they can come
Speaker 3: in first in GA shows. Yeah. The main thing about
Speaker 3: a handsout end is you know, when you become a
Speaker 3: fan of something, you realize that there's a group of
Speaker 3: people that that they want to invest more and if
Speaker 3: you can find a relationship where you can give them
Speaker 3: what they're wanting, then that can help you do more
Speaker 3: and more with less risk in the world. And so
Speaker 3: as a business model, you can take the dedicated thousands
Speaker 3: of fans and then turn that into sort of access
Speaker 3: to millions of people because they're your base, your passion base.
Speaker 6: Yeah, shows up.
Speaker 1: So how many people presently are members of Hanson dot
Speaker 1: net and how much do they pay?
Speaker 3: It fluctuate fluctuates between five and ten thousand. We all
Speaker 3: look at each other and how much do you want
Speaker 3: to share there?
Speaker 2: It's yeah, it's they pay fifty dollars a year and
Speaker 2: they have played forty until very recently we very reluctantly
Speaker 2: raised the price, but with inflation and things and just
Speaker 2: the change in service, we finally moved it up to fifty,
Speaker 2: which is still extremely you know, hopefully we feel it
Speaker 2: people feel like it's reasonable, but that you know, that
Speaker 2: membership you're you're trying to give people you know enough
Speaker 2: that it's like, yeah, I remember. And then one of
Speaker 2: the coolest things that we do, which I think is
Speaker 2: is also a really cool part of it, is there's
Speaker 2: other events and things that are only available after you've
Speaker 2: already become a member, Like we do a destination concert
Speaker 2: in Jamaica we've done for over ten years where it's
Speaker 2: a you know, like people do you know, cruises and stuff,
Speaker 2: but we we take over a whole resort and fans
Speaker 2: converge and they take their vacation. They spend an amazing
Speaker 2: several days with one another. But you can't even go
Speaker 2: to that event unless you're already first a member. So
Speaker 2: there's a sense of there's just a sense of it.
Speaker 2: It's also kind of a like, hey, I'm in at
Speaker 2: this level, you know, and business wise, you know, it's
Speaker 2: a reasonable you know, it contributes things that help keep
Speaker 2: the lights on, kept keep the music going, and keep
Speaker 2: the band operating. And also there's merchandising and things that
Speaker 2: are kind of in that world too.
Speaker 1: How many people come to your anniversary concert every year?
Speaker 2: A couple of thousand, couple thousands, Yeah, and it's and
Speaker 2: it's about you know. One of the things about that
Speaker 2: is it's a lot of people that are obviously not
Speaker 2: from here. So it's truly a like United Nations.
Speaker 6: Well, truthfully, probably be a lot more if we like
Speaker 6: did it in Boston, yeah, yeah, or like or like
Speaker 6: or like Dallas. You know, like if it wasn't it
Speaker 6: wasn't as uh, you know, if it wasn't in Tulsa,
Speaker 6: it would probably be even more because you know, you
Speaker 6: put it in a hub city and you'd be a
Speaker 6: lot easier. But but yeah, that's we do it here
Speaker 6: in Tulsa specifically because it's our hometown.
Speaker 3: Person. We've done it Kaye's Ballroom, which has been there
Speaker 3: for what one hundred and something years.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, and then I've also done it at at
Speaker 6: Tulsa Theater, which was called Brady for a while.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And then it's broadcast to the whole online community.
Speaker 3: So all of the handston net members. Uh, and so
Speaker 3: live in person you have several thousand, and then online
Speaker 3: you have the whole community.
Speaker 1: Okay, So how accessible are you guys eyes? Do you
Speaker 1: participate only on hands and dot net? Are you on
Speaker 1: the big social media platforms TikTok, YouTube, Snapchat, Instagram and
Speaker 1: Instagram reels?
Speaker 6: Yeah, we do all the social media stuff probably, you know,
Speaker 6: we interestingly, because of our relationship with handsOn dot net,
Speaker 6: we probably have done that a little less historically, way
Speaker 6: less than we would have because we already have such
Speaker 6: a strong community. But that is that is continuing to evolve.
Speaker 6: But yeah, we're definitely accessible on all the social media
Speaker 6: platforms Facebook, and you can't.
Speaker 3: You can't be in this business without being accessible. Yeah,
Speaker 3: otherwise I don't know what business you're.
Speaker 6: In, right, Yeah, exactly at some some level.
Speaker 2: Now, we're not inviting you to a home concert at
Speaker 2: our house, So we're not coming to your living room
Speaker 2: literally unless there's a contest, okay, but we.
Speaker 1: All know in this business there are super fans. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if people come to make or if people come to
Speaker 1: the annual concert, are they going to get to meet you?
Speaker 1: To what degree? Are you friends?
Speaker 3: Well, we always do meet.
Speaker 2: I mean we do meet and greets. In almost every
Speaker 2: case with concerts, we have specific meet and greets. And
Speaker 2: one of the things we've really tried to do that
Speaker 2: we do not promise a meet except in specific areas
Speaker 2: where they get on a list, they raise their hand,
Speaker 2: they say, I'm going to be there. But we always
Speaker 2: make an effort to set up the opportunity to have
Speaker 2: a I came to see you. We we have a
Speaker 2: you know, take a photo. In fact, every concert we do,
Speaker 2: pretty much every public concert we've done since we started
Speaker 2: the label, we have something called Hanson dot Net Reporter,
Speaker 2: So we have a member of the fan club that
Speaker 2: already tells us, hey, I'm coming to the show. They
Speaker 2: get randomly selected and they then sit down just like
Speaker 2: this and have an interview with us to talk about
Speaker 2: So that's one of the ways. And and we've gotten
Speaker 2: We've done a lot of conversations.
Speaker 3: And I think we've met. This is an important thing.
Speaker 3: It's something that we've always said and and I don't know,
Speaker 3: you know, so many bands sell access right they go
Speaker 3: and for two hundred dollars or five hundred dollars more,
Speaker 3: you can come meet me for it a long three
Speaker 3: minutes and get a long hug and a and we
Speaker 3: have never sold mean greats. I mean there's been some
Speaker 3: cases where for a charity auction somebody gets to meet you.
Speaker 3: But and that's been important to us, I think, because
Speaker 3: as much as you know your fans, you're not friends.
Speaker 3: And that's I think the place where this gets gets
Speaker 3: dangerous sort of socially. This experience. You meet a lot
Speaker 3: of people who have been through a lot of things
Speaker 3: and your music has helped them through it, and you
Speaker 3: want to be connected, but you don't want to be false.
Speaker 3: You don't want to you don't want to for the
Speaker 3: for the right price, like cross that line into this
Speaker 3: sort of personal space where you go like we've shared something,
Speaker 3: but what it is is not for sale, and it's
Speaker 3: a part of thing.
Speaker 2: It's a part of you can maybe meet some one,
Speaker 2: but it's not like here's the price we'll ever live
Speaker 2: through enough, you know, God bless them. There are some
Speaker 2: crazy people. There are some dangerous people, and so you
Speaker 2: you have to know the difference, and so you can't
Speaker 2: you can't buy meeting us. But we're not hard to find,
Speaker 2: and there's a there's a good chance if you come
Speaker 2: to Back to the Island event Jamaica, if you come
Speaker 2: to Hanson Day and Toulsa, if you come to really
Speaker 2: any show on a tour that we're on and you
Speaker 2: stand by the bus after the show, there's a good
Speaker 2: chance somebody's gonna come talk to you and take a photo,
Speaker 2: because we care about those connections enough to never make
Speaker 2: them something that has a dollar sign in front of them.
Speaker 6: Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: The lifeblood of the business is new fans, younger fans.
Speaker 1: How do you reach those people?
Speaker 3: How do we reach new fans. We have a breeding
Speaker 3: scheme where we are farming by our fans. We last
Speaker 3: long enough that our fans who were twelve bring their
Speaker 3: twelve year olds to the show. That's what we're working on.
Speaker 3: Reaching new fans. Man, what an impossible scheme, because the
Speaker 3: most likely thing is to do something that other popular
Speaker 3: people are doing, which sometimes serves you but most often
Speaker 3: makes you just a bad version of somebody else's genuine idea.
Speaker 3: I think our version of reaching new fans truly is lasting.
Speaker 3: It's really just to say still be here when somebody
Speaker 3: has an opportunity to find you. And we do really
Speaker 3: see the multi generational thing in our shows now where
Speaker 3: the mom who is twelve is now forty and she's
Speaker 3: got two or three kids and she's bringing some of
Speaker 3: them to the show or all of that.
Speaker 6: Well, And I would also say too, the coolest thing
Speaker 6: about streaming, although there are many problems with the streaming
Speaker 6: and the way that it financially is created a lot
Speaker 6: of issues with how do you even like earn a
Speaker 6: living as a musician and have a career. It's it's
Speaker 6: complicated because it was already hard. It was already hard
Speaker 6: to be, you know, an artist going out there and
Speaker 6: having any kind of success. It's it's definitely more challenging
Speaker 6: in a variety of ways through streaming. But the upside
Speaker 6: is that there is very low barrier barrier to entry,
Speaker 6: and so what you do start seeing, interestingly enough discovery
Speaker 6: is this continually like weird discovery. We'll be like, you know,
Speaker 6: what's that group of sixteen year olds doing here? And
Speaker 6: they'll walk up super excited to be like, we just
Speaker 6: discovered you last week and you're like what, like yeah,
Speaker 6: and it was so cool because we've heard some songs
Speaker 6: of you guys from like when you were kids, but
Speaker 6: then we heard all of your other stuff and you
Speaker 6: guys are like really like diverse and really different, and
Speaker 6: we just kind of had to see what the show
Speaker 6: was going to be.
Speaker 3: Like I would say something to you.
Speaker 2: You said the phrase that you know, new fans are
Speaker 2: the lifeblood of our industry or and I appreciate that,
Speaker 2: but I would have to differ on that. I think
Speaker 2: that connection is the lifeblood of our career in our industry,
Speaker 2: meaning real fans are the lifeblood. And back when we
Speaker 2: now live in a world where direct fan communication is
Speaker 2: just so prevalent, we all live it. I mean, here
Speaker 2: we are, we're literally sitting across this is like Star Trek.
Speaker 2: What's going on right now talking to each other on
Speaker 2: the screen. The world's forgotten that access to the pipeline
Speaker 2: was the way the music business was built. A label
Speaker 2: said I'm going to make you a record because it
Speaker 2: costs to go to a studio and has tape, and
Speaker 2: then we have to print CDs, print make records.
Speaker 3: We've got to distribute it.
Speaker 2: We've got to get a radio station, we got to
Speaker 2: get TV, we got to get a magazine to write
Speaker 2: an article. Now we can talk, and so the relationship
Speaker 2: with that passion base we now live that everyone lives that,
Speaker 2: but we saw it early, and so I think I
Speaker 2: think the lifeblood is real connection to fans, real connection
Speaker 2: which means one that goes deeper, because first of all,
Speaker 2: once you get a person, they say that, I'm not
Speaker 2: going to list number, but we know that dramatically after
Speaker 2: college age in life, most people dramatically drop the new
Speaker 2: music or the new arts they're discovering. College is kind
Speaker 2: of the end of their like important, which is hard.
Speaker 2: So if you do reach somebody earlier in their life,
Speaker 2: they tend to become that they have a chance to
Speaker 2: be with you through the ride. Like how many people
Speaker 2: that came through high school and said James Taylor was
Speaker 2: my thing. That's always their thing. Our parents three Dog Night,
Speaker 2: you know. And so I think that connection is huge.
Speaker 2: And as far as the new fans go, I would
Speaker 2: say that adding to what's been said already, that new
Speaker 2: fans are are just like the first ones. New fans
Speaker 2: you find the same way you find any fan. You
Speaker 2: have a piece of thing, you content, you have something
Speaker 2: you believe in, and you lob it out into the world.
Speaker 2: And the people that sit around and say, my audience
Speaker 2: is really people from this age that have this color
Speaker 2: hair they is, they're fooling themselves. You only know what
Speaker 2: you believe in, and you only know what you can share,
Speaker 2: and then you hope that you find others that go,
Speaker 2: you know what, I dig that. I want to listen
Speaker 2: to that in the car. I want to I want to,
Speaker 2: you know, turn it up on the radio. I want
Speaker 2: to go work out to that song. I want to
Speaker 2: share that on the night that I get married. And
Speaker 2: whatever times the music finds its way that you do
Speaker 2: not control it. And so I think you can only
Speaker 2: continue to cast you know, things into the universe and
Speaker 2: hope that it finds people that feel the way you
Speaker 2: do a little bit. And that's my that's my story.
Speaker 2: I'm sticking to it.
Speaker 6: I will say one specific thing though about that. It's
Speaker 6: it's interesting because I lost the train of thought.
Speaker 3: To say that. Yeah, let me then I'll say something.
Speaker 3: What Taylor's talking about is the fact that the most
Speaker 3: important relationships are are created through the advocates, and like,
Speaker 3: there's a reason why people on social media know that
Speaker 3: someone with ten thousand followers is more likely to create
Speaker 3: more purchases than somebody with two million followers, because the
Speaker 3: ten thousand people following that guy really feel deeply connected
Speaker 3: to them. So when they when they have that connection,
Speaker 3: they go, oh, oh, this is a personal recommendation from somebody.
Speaker 3: And so what when you say create strong connections with people?
Speaker 3: That goes back to the idea of you know, every
Speaker 3: time you meet someone, being genuine, the stories in your songs,
Speaker 3: being connected to who you are as a person. Right,
Speaker 3: if everything is rooted in this deep reality and you
Speaker 3: know some sort of the truth of the world as
Speaker 3: you live it, then hopefully that translates into deeper connections,
Speaker 3: which translates into people who want to share the importance
Speaker 3: of those connections. And it's not about being a splash.
Speaker 3: It's not about just just getting attention from as many
Speaker 3: eyes as possible, but creating good connections. I think what
Speaker 3: you're trying to say is, can.
Speaker 1: You remember I remember what came back to?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's about having respect.
Speaker 6: I think what you were talking about, Zach is it's
Speaker 6: about having respect for the audience because it's not it's
Speaker 6: not calculated. You're not like you're just saying like, look,
Speaker 6: I'm gonna be myself and I'm gonna be honest with
Speaker 6: people as much as I possibly can. The thing that
Speaker 6: you asked a little while ago. Why even make new music,
Speaker 6: Why even make new music? Well, for one, maybe to
Speaker 6: connect with new fans. That is certainly part of it.
Speaker 6: It's certainly part of it. You never know what will
Speaker 6: catch people. But also it's for your fans who have
Speaker 6: been around for a long time as well, because you
Speaker 6: don't want them to think that there's nothing new of
Speaker 6: value for them to engage in. You want to give
Speaker 6: them a new story and a new experience. And you know,
Speaker 6: some of the best stuff we've ever done we did
Speaker 6: last year, you know, and that's really cool. Some of
Speaker 6: the best stuff we did, you know, in our life
Speaker 6: was in twenty eighteen on that String Theory Orchestra tour. Yes,
Speaker 6: one of the most one of the coolest, most emotionally
Speaker 6: satisfying things I've ever done, you know.
Speaker 3: So that's why you do it.
Speaker 6: And I know for a fact that the audience comes
Speaker 6: up after the show over and over and over again
Speaker 6: and says a combination of that was deeply impactful to me.
Speaker 6: Thank you for doing that. It really took this music
Speaker 6: that I loved to another level in a new place,
Speaker 6: and I'm so grateful that you took that risk.
Speaker 3: Oh, or how about this Oh.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I brought my kid for the first time because
Speaker 6: I knew it was an orchestra show and they could
Speaker 6: sit down and watch and that was deeply impactful for them,
Speaker 6: and I know it'll last with them forever, you know.
Speaker 3: So those are the reasons why.
Speaker 6: You do that stuff.
Speaker 1: Okay, you went independent before almost any of the major
Speaker 1: label acts that it had success had Today everybody is
Speaker 1: on that page, but you were early. So you talked
Speaker 1: about the frustration with Island def Jam, You talked about
Speaker 1: getting the financial stuff. Then you start with your own isp,
Speaker 1: your own label. There's this incredible sense of freedom, but
Speaker 1: you do reach a lot fewer people at the beginning. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: how did you handle that emotionally?
Speaker 3: Well? So, I think what we had experienced with our
Speaker 3: Island def Gen relationship was that we had been locked right,
Speaker 3: we'd been locked up, and really any number of people
Speaker 3: was better than no people at all. What we also
Speaker 3: saw was that we could be with the greatest label,
Speaker 3: the biggest label, with the biggest budget, but it was
Speaker 3: the wrong people. They wouldn't spend the money in the
Speaker 3: right places and they would leave before the job was done.
Speaker 3: And so you know, that's that was our experience. Six
Speaker 3: weeks into our second album, it had sold almost a
Speaker 3: million copies and they said, hey, it's not working. We're
Speaker 3: looking around going we sold a million companies, we're platinum,
Speaker 3: Like that's supposed to be the sign of efper echelon
Speaker 3: artists and you're pulling the money in and so what
Speaker 3: more was It is a sacrifice. It is an unfortunate
Speaker 3: reality that money talks, but money is not a guarantee.
Speaker 3: The only thing you can really count on are your
Speaker 3: advocates and your effort. And so you put in the effort,
Speaker 3: You put that energy into the people that you believe
Speaker 3: will be there in the hard times, and that's probably
Speaker 3: about as good as you can do. I think. I
Speaker 3: think now today it's interesting to look at labels and
Speaker 3: ask questions about what is the best strategy. It might
Speaker 3: be that our independent strategy today is missing some things
Speaker 3: and we need to rethink, you know, to be the
Speaker 3: best business model. But fundamentally, it's it's really about that
Speaker 3: long view and that sustainability that says we need to
Speaker 3: bet on the fan base that has been neglected, because
Speaker 3: they're the ones who are going to tell their friends,
Speaker 3: who are going to create more fans faster than we can.
Speaker 3: And as you grow into being an older band, you
Speaker 3: know that has fans that have careers that are music
Speaker 3: supervisors and executives like you go those fans, if they
Speaker 3: so choose, they can they can put your record wherever
Speaker 3: it needs to be by their fandom, not by your dollars.
Speaker 3: So you don't have to reach everyone. You have to
Speaker 3: reach the people who who want to talk, who want
Speaker 3: to buy, who want to engage, and and you know,
Speaker 3: you see that over and over and over again, especially
Speaker 3: now with the way algorithms throttle things. Numbers are are
Speaker 3: not the whole story, no, and so better to have
Speaker 3: a great career than a fantastic opportunity.
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, you're right. I think it's worth diving into
Speaker 6: one particular detail about that though, too, which is we realized,
Speaker 6: especially at that second record, where you get a whole
Speaker 6: group of new people who we knew from the get go,
Speaker 6: From the moment that record was getting released, we're like,
Speaker 6: cross our fingers, this could be a total shit show.
Speaker 6: And you know, and sure enough it was, because six
Speaker 6: weeks into the release of that record, they basically told
Speaker 6: our career was over and we need to do solo records.
Speaker 6: And they didn't believe in the band anymore, and you're like, wait, what,
Speaker 6: hold on, what are you talking about. But anyway, you
Speaker 6: get to the third record after you're kind of getting stuck,
Speaker 6: as you said, trapped in this process with this label
Speaker 6: you knew had no interest in really, you know, expanding
Speaker 6: your career, and basically everybody leaves the agent, the manager, everybody, right,
Speaker 6: all the people, everything, for various different reasons, some of
Speaker 6: which were perfectly reasonable and amicable and some were which
Speaker 6: were complicated.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we had a no agent, we had to find
Speaker 3: a new manager, we had to get out of our
Speaker 3: record label, and it was completely rebuilt from the end
Speaker 3: of two thousand and three, which was a time when
Speaker 3: almost no one was independent.
Speaker 6: But specifically we were told we had no fans left. Yes,
Speaker 6: and so the promoters didn't believe in you and all
Speaker 6: these kind of things. And we went and we said, fine,
Speaker 6: we'll get in a van, we'll do an unplugged tour.
Speaker 6: We don't care. And so you go from well, we
Speaker 6: knew the truth, we knew the truth. And so you
Speaker 6: go from doing one show that's one hundred and fifty
Speaker 6: cap in Chicago and we're like crap, But oh well,
Speaker 6: here we go to at the end of that year
Speaker 6: having a show at the House of Blues in Chicago.
Speaker 6: In Chicago, and so you're like, aha, see, and it's
Speaker 6: not that it's perfect again, it's not that you're reaching
Speaker 6: a gazillion people every single time. And yeah, we played
Speaker 6: the Chicago Theater. We played bigger rooms and smaller rooms
Speaker 6: along the way here and there, you know, on a cycle.
Speaker 6: But the same would be true of like, you know,
Speaker 6: playing the Middle East in Boston, and now we regularly
Speaker 6: sell out in the House of Blues and in Boston.
Speaker 3: Also, it's just the flubris of the industry that that
Speaker 3: was not seeing the thing that we saw.
Speaker 6: It's just fickleness and it's just and it's okay, it's okay.
Speaker 6: But we just couldn't be trapped in that scenario and
Speaker 6: so we had to take risks. We had to take risks,
Speaker 6: and luckily we had had enough success that we could
Speaker 6: better on ourselves and say, yeah, we might lose a
Speaker 6: lot of money.
Speaker 3: In the documentary about that about that album, the third
Speaker 3: album when we went independent, the album Underneath Uh, basically
Speaker 3: at the point we we signed on to work with
Speaker 3: Tenth Street, Alan Kovac who is You know. The great
Speaker 3: thing about Alan, especially at that point in our career,
Speaker 3: is Alan had no fear. He often had no friends
Speaker 3: because of his lack of fear. But he was a
Speaker 3: bulldog and he said, let's just do it ourselves. And
Speaker 3: our natural independent spirit, combined with Alan's sort of satiable confidence,
Speaker 3: said okay, fine, let's do it. He was also the
Speaker 3: only person that could have gotten us off island. And
Speaker 3: I think willing to go pick go, see us sit
Speaker 3: there and and go what do we have to lose?
Speaker 3: And everybody sits a lot of money.
Speaker 1: We're here today. For those people who know you from
Speaker 1: your hit days, what are one or two songs you
Speaker 1: would recommend they check out to find out where you
Speaker 1: are today, to turn them on, turn them back on.
Speaker 2: That's such a mue question, I mean, For one, as
Speaker 2: much as I hate to say this, I do think
Speaker 2: that the every Middle of Everywhere album, which we put
Speaker 2: out in twenty seventeen is a really good starting place
Speaker 2: because it touches on singles as well as non singles.
Speaker 6: Yea, but which is.
Speaker 2: Basically we put out a project called Red Green Blue
Speaker 2: two years ago, and the record was divided into three sections,
Speaker 2: one where each of us particularly penned or wrote the
Speaker 2: songs and sort of led the creative like this is
Speaker 2: the approach I want to take, like.
Speaker 3: Three, So I would.
Speaker 2: I would pick you know, I would listen to the
Speaker 2: song write you a song from Isaac's or child at
Speaker 2: Heart for myself or Don't Let Me Down, which each
Speaker 2: of these are from a section of the album. So
Speaker 2: write you a song, Child at Heart, Don't Let Me Down?
Speaker 2: I would go there, And I would also I would.
Speaker 2: We reference the Symphony Project a couple times because I
Speaker 2: think it speaks to something. The Symphony Project, called String Theory,
Speaker 2: tells a story and it opens up a different way
Speaker 2: of looking at how we write songs, which is, we
Speaker 2: roughly love pop songs, but we've always sort of heard
Speaker 2: a symphony in our heads, literally and figuratively at least,
Speaker 2: I feel that, and that project allowed us to paint
Speaker 2: a different picture in bigger strokes. So it starts with
Speaker 2: a song called Reachion for the Sky, and it says
Speaker 2: something about what we are and what a note we
Speaker 2: believe matters, which is the sense of believing and in aspiration,
Speaker 2: believing in purpose, believing in aspiring to things, and.
Speaker 6: Believing that you're you know, you have a value in
Speaker 6: the world and a thing that.
Speaker 3: You bigger than what people see, you know.
Speaker 2: And even just just to connect to that point, what
Speaker 2: was it being described about the reason to go into
Speaker 2: Bennett And it was I was saying there were some
Speaker 2: hubers from the industry, you know, about themselves, and not
Speaker 2: saying what I was really pointing to. And part is
Speaker 2: we saw what was happening online in communicating. We saw
Speaker 2: the communities. We'd built that fan club already while this
Speaker 2: was happening, and so we literally knew that there was
Speaker 2: a certain amount of people that had that had a voice.
Speaker 2: And so when we go back to the songs of
Speaker 2: what songs matter, we were feeling even in the high
Speaker 2: and low times, we could see the songs that people
Speaker 2: uh you know, wrote about on forum, or the or
Speaker 2: the lyrics people tattooed on their arms, or the non singles,
Speaker 2: you know, the song that you just put on there,
Speaker 2: and then you're like, that's where that A lot of
Speaker 2: people just seem to want to say that. So you're
Speaker 2: you're listening as much as you are making things. I
Speaker 2: think in this business, if you're successful, I think because
Speaker 2: you say things you think people are gonna care about
Speaker 2: the songs. We just you know, said, hey, try these songs.
Speaker 2: But the truth is we don't know what rabbit hole.
Speaker 2: The next fan is gonna go down and they're gonna
Speaker 2: tell us, They're gonna tell us switch ones.
Speaker 6: You know, if people like really modern music, though, I
Speaker 6: will say I was Born and Nothing like a love
Speaker 6: song if you're more inclined towards kind of more modern,
Speaker 6: more poppy kind of songs. Although those songs that you
Speaker 6: ran from.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was Born and nothing love song, for sure
Speaker 3: tell you something.
Speaker 6: Very Nothing like a love song is very dancy. I
Speaker 6: was Born is very kind of how would you describe?
Speaker 6: It's like acoustic on the floor.
Speaker 3: Yeah, feels very accessible day Like. What makes us such
Speaker 3: a unique band is that we have three lead singers
Speaker 3: and three lead writers, and so there's a lot of variation.
Speaker 3: I think our album Against the World, which was two
Speaker 3: albums ago, best encapsulates simply the variety and the scope
Speaker 3: that you will enjoy if you decide to be a
Speaker 3: Hanson fan.
Speaker 6: It's most like a live show.
Speaker 3: In a way.
Speaker 1: Okay, gentlemen, you may not be educated, but you're all
Speaker 1: very intelligent. And I mean that honestly. And very insightful,
Speaker 1: very worldly. I certainly you know there's a lot of
Speaker 1: questions we didn't talk about. You know, none of you
Speaker 1: were divorced in a world where divorce is prevalent, but
Speaker 1: I'll save that for another time. In any event, I
Speaker 1: want to wish you luck and thank you for taking
Speaker 1: this time with my audience.
Speaker 6: Thank you, thank you for giving us the opportunity to
Speaker 6: talk to you, Chastra.
Speaker 1: Until next time. This is Bob Leftstacks