Speaker 1: Now really.
Speaker 2: Really now really hello, and welcome to really know really
Speaker 2: with Jason Alexander and Peter Tilden, who remind you that
Speaker 2: children of people who subscribe to our show are the
Speaker 2: happiest children in the world. The caveat to that is
Speaker 2: that your subscription and your children must be in the Netherlands,
Speaker 2: because the recent study suggests that children in the Netherlands
Speaker 2: are in fact the happiest kids in the world. And
Speaker 2: when we heard that here in the Home Office, our
Speaker 2: reaction was naturally really no, really, So Jason and Peter
Speaker 2: became determined to find out how a country was able
Speaker 2: to lay claim to having the happiest children in the world, and,
Speaker 2: more importantly, if true, what could be learned from their
Speaker 2: child rearing techniques. They also wanted to figure out the
Speaker 2: correct name for the country, since people refer to it
Speaker 2: as Netherlands or the Netherlands or Holland. It's all very confusing,
Speaker 2: so for answers they turned to an actual Netherlander or
Speaker 2: whatever they're called, very unique vonder Klay. She's a child
Speaker 2: and school psychologist who has also worked at the Intern
Speaker 2: National School of the Hague with children, adolescents and their
Speaker 2: families and now here are two guys whose children really
Speaker 2: wish they had done this episode years ago.
Speaker 3: Jason and Peter.
Speaker 4: I know today is a very uh it's kind of
Speaker 4: a wonderful topic, but it depresses me going in because
Speaker 4: by its very nature it's comparative, and I'm on the
Speaker 4: wrong side of the comparison. Other people are happy and
Speaker 4: add E r happy er than I am, and by
Speaker 4: the way in the world around.
Speaker 1: But the thing that she make you happy is you
Speaker 1: have a best friend and partner. Most of the time,
Speaker 1: barometer wized is even less avocate.
Speaker 3: Hence that's why it makes you feel.
Speaker 1: You feel so much better and me continuously crappy. So
Speaker 1: this show, I say, what.
Speaker 3: Makes the best friend a best friend?
Speaker 4: You feel better an the when they do because they
Speaker 4: are worse comparison.
Speaker 1: You call me and you go, how's your day? And
Speaker 1: I go, oh, man, it's not good. You go, wow,
Speaker 1: I'm having a pretty good day. I'm tackling. I'm tackling.
Speaker 1: So the topic is the Netherlands are home to the
Speaker 1: happiest kids in the.
Speaker 3: World that there's already in and of its.
Speaker 5: I got so annoyed, Why well the Netherlands, even the
Speaker 5: name and even the notes nothing the nether regions, right,
Speaker 5: don't go down there, that's your nether part.
Speaker 1: So already. Usually when we see a topic that makes
Speaker 1: it go really, it makes it go really no really,
Speaker 1: this one had an adute went really no, really, they're
Speaker 1: the happiest kids in the world. So and the Netherlands,
Speaker 1: I guarantee. Now, if you're listening, if I walked in
Speaker 1: the street, did a man on the street right now
Speaker 1: insteads where's the Netherland? People wouldn't know it's a country, right,
Speaker 1: they wouldn't know if it's the Netherlands or Netherlands? Right?
Speaker 1: Is it Holland? Is it? Why are you not calling
Speaker 1: it the Holland? And are the people the Holland deers?
Speaker 1: And by the way, there's a whole the whole place
Speaker 1: you live is a fesso.
Speaker 3: How can you be happy?
Speaker 1: Every other country? This that in the room said, what
Speaker 1: do you think? How Schmelsburg not good billy Germany. Let's
Speaker 1: go with that. Yeah, here they went the Netherlands. Sounds
Speaker 1: like we're going over the hill to an area of nondescript.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like, yeah, yeah, where's it begin? Where's it?
Speaker 4: Sounds like something in Hoppita and the Hague is there,
Speaker 4: the Hague I made myself left day.
Speaker 3: I'm happy every because of the Netherlands.
Speaker 1: So we're gonna talk about that. So before we talk
Speaker 1: about that, though, in this country, we have our our
Speaker 1: traditions and the way we raise our kids in culture.
Speaker 1: So I thought we'd give a comparative of some of
Speaker 1: the other cultures in the world. So when we have
Speaker 1: this guest on, we know how it's a child psychologist.
Speaker 1: Great and she talks about what's going on in the
Speaker 1: Netherlands slash Hollands slash.
Speaker 3: So there's a copyright infringement right there.
Speaker 1: All right, so let's find out. Let's talk to a
Speaker 1: culture that allegedly has the happiest. So joining us now
Speaker 1: is Veronic Voni.
Speaker 3: You're gonna mess up the last that I know, but
Speaker 3: at least get.
Speaker 4: The very neat there you go, very neat now Clay, right,
Speaker 4: Vander Clay, Clay, I do this.
Speaker 1: I got obviously someone else should be doing this. It
Speaker 1: was a beautiful did your study it's a it's a
Speaker 1: beautiful name, and thank you for coming on. You are
Speaker 1: a child psychologist in the Netherlands. And we saw the
Speaker 1: headline that the Netherlands is home to the world's happiest children,
Speaker 1: and we had to find out a why b if
Speaker 1: that's accurate how they judged that. But before we even
Speaker 1: get into that, is it the Netherlands, Netherlands, Holland, the
Speaker 1: kingdom of what is your country?
Speaker 3: Sometimes there's the sometimes there's not.
Speaker 4: The It is the Netherlands, all right?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: And do you know offhand why it is the Netherlands?
Speaker 4: Is that was there a guy named nether was there?
Speaker 4: Was it a region that people it was below other things,
Speaker 4: you know, and the history of how it.
Speaker 6: Now prepared for this that's okay, I.
Speaker 3: Have it for the end. I have it for the end.
Speaker 7: Okay, okay, all right, you want to ask questions. So
Speaker 7: let's talk about children, educated and highly respected person.
Speaker 1: So what's different in the way kids are raised there
Speaker 1: culturally than anywhere else.
Speaker 6: In the Netherlands.
Speaker 1: In the Netherlands, Yeah, it would make them happen. Now
Speaker 1: you're doing it.
Speaker 3: I knew it.
Speaker 1: I knew it. You guys wanted us up. You know
Speaker 1: that the lies it is really Holland. But somehow all right. Nevertheless, so, yes,
Speaker 1: kids in the Netherlands, what's going on there that allegedly
Speaker 1: makes them the happiest.
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, I do have to say obviously we're not
Speaker 6: perfect either, but I think there are quite a few
Speaker 6: things that we do that are having a positive effect
Speaker 6: on our children's well being. I think one of the
Speaker 6: things that we're very very good at is allowing our
Speaker 6: children to learn independence at a very young age. We
Speaker 6: tend and I'm not saying that everyone does that, but
Speaker 6: we tend to let our children play quite independently by themselves,
Speaker 6: like at the playground, without hovering too much, without you know,
Speaker 6: catching them as soon as they might fall. Also with
Speaker 6: for example, we cycle quite a bit here in the
Speaker 6: Netherlands from a very very young age, and so children
Speaker 6: learn this independence cycling by themselves. Also to school very
Speaker 6: very young, usually when they're about like nine or ten.
Speaker 6: We do already allow them to go independently to school
Speaker 6: on their bicycles, but that's something that they learn quite young,
Speaker 6: and I think that we try as Dutch parents to
Speaker 6: give them a lot of freedom, and I think that
Speaker 6: is part of one of the reasons why I think
Speaker 6: they are quite happy in that sense.
Speaker 4: So anecdotally, what that reminds me of very nick is
Speaker 4: when I was a kid in my neighborhood.
Speaker 3: Same thing.
Speaker 4: I was on my bike my you know, I would
Speaker 4: have breakfast on a Saturday, and then I'd go on
Speaker 4: my bike and I'd be with my friends, no parental supervision,
Speaker 4: and we'd come back for dinner. And that was the
Speaker 4: norm if my child. When I became a parent a
Speaker 4: mere thirty something years later, that was the scariest thing
Speaker 4: we could imagine.
Speaker 1: What wait, let me ask you something there, because the
Speaker 1: same thing with me, although my parents didn't care as much,
Speaker 1: so there was not that much. But in our neighborhood,
Speaker 1: in our neighborhood's growing up at that point, it was
Speaker 1: my neighbors knew they would. There are a lot of
Speaker 1: eyes on kids, so it was very different.
Speaker 3: And is that true there as well?
Speaker 4: That it's sort of the village is aware that the
Speaker 4: children are out and so as a community, you know,
Speaker 4: they're watching other kids and the adults are sort of
Speaker 4: keeping a distant but but focused eye on these kids.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I think it's so like a safety thing. I think
Speaker 6: that's what you guys are talking about, right. It is,
Speaker 6: I mean relatively safe here in the Netherlands, and our
Speaker 6: roads are built so for if we're talking about the
Speaker 6: cycling that we can safely cycle almost everywhere. It's easier
Speaker 6: almost to take it. No, it is easier to take
Speaker 6: your bicycle everywhere and not take your car. So it's
Speaker 6: relatively safe here. But you know, we're also quite a
Speaker 6: small country, so that feeling of you know, community and
Speaker 6: not that we know everyone, but it is, you know,
Speaker 6: taking care of each other. Even if you don't know
Speaker 6: that child that's crossing the street with the bike, you do,
Speaker 6: you know, take care of each other.
Speaker 1: In that sense.
Speaker 4: How much is that truly a part of the formula
Speaker 4: for the fact that you have these happy kids? Is
Speaker 4: it the fact that it really is small communities in
Speaker 4: a small country. And I would also imagine, and I
Speaker 4: don't mean this in any pejorative way, sort of homogeneous communities,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It's the culture dates back.
Speaker 4: So yeah, there's there's a My impression of having never
Speaker 4: been there, is that there's sort of a singular culture.
Speaker 4: There isn't a sort of melting pot culture that we
Speaker 4: have here in the US.
Speaker 3: Is that true?
Speaker 6: No, we do have quite a few different cultures here
Speaker 6: as well. Yeah, we definitely do. We have lots of
Speaker 6: different communities, the Turkish, the Moroccan communities. We have a
Speaker 6: lot of people who've come from Africa as well who've
Speaker 6: settled here right here or so it's it's not just Dutch.
Speaker 6: We also have, especially like in the Hague. I live
Speaker 6: close to the Hague, a lot of international families that
Speaker 6: come and live here because of a lot of the
Speaker 6: international organizations that we have here. So it's definitely not
Speaker 6: just Dutch. But it depends on where you go in
Speaker 6: the Netherlands. So where I live, it's very very international,
Speaker 6: and we do have a lot of people who have
Speaker 6: immigrated here, but there's also areas in the Netherlands that
Speaker 6: it's very.
Speaker 1: Very touch Yeah, okay, question the bike, the Viking, the
Speaker 1: letting kids be independent of a certain age and looking
Speaker 1: out for other people's kids. Does it translate across all
Speaker 1: all the cultures there kind of feel the same way
Speaker 1: about it. When they're exposed to that, they all embrace it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, And I think I think other cultures have to
Speaker 6: get used to it, because I mean I recently went
Speaker 6: on holiday with my family and we were out at
Speaker 6: the playground and you could see a couple. It was
Speaker 6: a Dutch father and an American mother, and the Dutch
Speaker 6: father was like, well, just let let let our daughter
Speaker 6: go play, and the mom was like, He's like, oh,
Speaker 6: let it go. She's fun. So you know, those cultures,
Speaker 6: they also have to get used to it, right, but
Speaker 6: they do. I think they do embrace it and they
Speaker 6: see they see the benefit too. I noticed it with
Speaker 6: some of the clients that I've had that I've had
Speaker 6: as well into national clients in my practice. The parents say, yeah,
Speaker 6: we've learnt a lot from the Dutch letting our children
Speaker 6: go a bit more.
Speaker 1: I'm curious. I remembered an incident with Robert when he
Speaker 1: was six seven years old. He's playing soccer, and soccer
Speaker 1: at that age is really about fifteen kids in a scrum.
Speaker 1: They all get together, everybody's kicking everybody, dust is going up,
Speaker 1: and then they separate. They're not really playing soccer fertida
Speaker 1: the United States. It's not good. But I remember Robert
Speaker 1: got pushed down and I, of course my wife and
Speaker 1: rush out because my poor boy is on the ground crying.
Speaker 1: And the mother of the other kid rushed out and
Speaker 1: instead of saying to the kid, why did you push them?
Speaker 1: She said, how did that make you feel? And I
Speaker 1: knew something had changed. When the bully was being asked,
Speaker 1: how does that make you feel where you are? Did
Speaker 1: the parents interact and solve the kid's problems at that
Speaker 1: age or do they let the kids figure out how
Speaker 1: to get through the day without us hovering and without
Speaker 1: us solving all your problems?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think it. Yeah, I think it depends on
Speaker 6: the age. But we do try to encourage them to
Speaker 6: solve things by themselves. Also, like if you see like
Speaker 6: little kids like sometimes falling at the playground, it's not
Speaker 6: like the parents right away rush to help them. And
Speaker 6: I'm not saying all parents, right, but other kids help
Speaker 6: them as well, right, And it's not that the parents
Speaker 6: aren't aware. We're aware, we're looking, but we're teaching them
Speaker 6: maybe differently, right, teaching them to get up by themselves
Speaker 6: or get their peers to help them. You learn a
Speaker 6: lot from your peers as well. I mean, you learn
Speaker 6: a lot from your parents, obviously, But yeah, so I think.
Speaker 4: It's that reflects something Peter and I were talking about
Speaker 4: before you joined us about my kids. My wife and
Speaker 4: I tried a program when we were raising our kids
Speaker 4: when they were little that was developed by a woman
Speaker 4: named Mogged Gerber, and it was called Research education infants,
Speaker 4: And it was also very much the sort of engage
Speaker 4: the child in their own life, even at the very
Speaker 4: early of a month, six weeks, eight weeks. But when
Speaker 4: a child would get when a baby would get frustrated
Speaker 4: in a group of you know, there'd be like an
Speaker 4: open mat and the babies are wandering around and they
Speaker 4: get frustrated with something. The philosophy there was don't run
Speaker 4: in and save it so fast. First of all, they
Speaker 4: may figure it out. And second of all, it's okay
Speaker 4: to be frustrated. That's one of those things that you
Speaker 4: can be frustrated and get through it. And I was
Speaker 4: saying to Peter it worked very well for one of
Speaker 4: my kids and not very well for my other son.
Speaker 3: And so, you know, I think it must be.
Speaker 4: Hard as a parent because you work with children, but
Speaker 4: I'm sure you work with families too, so it must
Speaker 4: be hard for parents who have the inclination to jump
Speaker 4: in to hold back. Is there for you if you
Speaker 4: were just giving general advice to a parent who is
Speaker 4: struggling with you know when to jump in and when not.
Speaker 4: There is there sort of a tipping point where you go, yeah,
Speaker 4: that means go in. But prior to that. Let's see
Speaker 4: if you is there a way to look at those situations.
Speaker 6: Well, I mean, every child is unique, and I think
Speaker 6: that's what you're describing as well. You don't have a
Speaker 6: program that fits every child. You have to look at
Speaker 6: what fits best for your child. And that's what I
Speaker 6: work with When I work with parents, we always look
Speaker 6: at well what fits your child, and as a parent,
Speaker 6: you know very very well what your child needs. Right,
Speaker 6: So if you feel that this is too much for
Speaker 6: them or they really need help here, then you also
Speaker 6: have to trust your instinct. And what I'm talking about
Speaker 6: are general things. Right. Generally, it's good to let them
Speaker 6: figure things out. But if you've tried that and you notice, okay,
Speaker 6: this doesn't work so well with my child, then you
Speaker 6: know you have to find a different way that works
Speaker 6: better to teach them the same things. Right.
Speaker 4: I want to jump for a second too again this
Speaker 4: notion of the Netherlands producing happier kids, and I want
Speaker 4: to jump a little bit to some of the influences
Speaker 4: on the older kids. So I have to assume that
Speaker 4: those kids are as engaged with social media as any
Speaker 4: other as teenagers and kids in our country, and what
Speaker 4: we're hearing more and more is that social media is
Speaker 4: having a tremendous negative impact, building all kinds of stresses
Speaker 4: and all kinds of problems. Are the kids in your
Speaker 4: country somehow avoiding those pitfalls? Are they not as stressed
Speaker 4: out by these things? Are they not as plagued by it?
Speaker 3: Or is it the.
Speaker 4: Same thing but they're more somehow fortified to deal with it?
Speaker 4: Are the kids in your country somehow avoiding those pitfalls?
Speaker 4: Are they not as stressed out by these things? Are
Speaker 4: they not as plagued by it? Or is it the
Speaker 4: same thing, but they're more somehow fortified to deal with it.
Speaker 6: I think they struggle with a lot of the things
Speaker 6: that you guys mentioned as well. A lot of a
Speaker 6: lot of these social media apps are made to have,
Speaker 6: you know, teenagers addicted to them, so Dutch teenagers are
Speaker 6: not immune to that. I think one of the things
Speaker 6: that helps, and that's what you want to work on
Speaker 6: from a young age, is being able to talk about
Speaker 6: it right, being able to talk about it at home
Speaker 6: and how do you solve these problems. A lot of
Speaker 6: the time, it's not necessary that social media is bad.
Speaker 6: It's about how you use it and how long you're
Speaker 6: on it. And if it's replacing certain things or right
Speaker 6: that you're not going out as much to meet people
Speaker 6: face to face. But if you're able to have those
Speaker 6: conversations at home, I think that makes it a lot easier.
Speaker 6: And if you know you can talk about anything at
Speaker 6: home from a young age, then you're more inclined I think,
Speaker 6: to have those conversations later on when your teenager struggling.
Speaker 3: With these things.
Speaker 1: You also engage them on subjects that here. Not everybody
Speaker 1: talks their kids about sex and drugs and self identification
Speaker 1: and transgender but you do, and you don't shy away
Speaker 1: from that in the country, even with young kids, if
Speaker 1: they have a question, you sit and you address or
Speaker 1: it's a different different attitude.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and you know, of course I can't speak for
Speaker 6: all such parents, generally, we do. We do have these conversations,
Speaker 6: like conversations about I don't know, marriage. Yeah, it could
Speaker 6: be a man and a woman, but it can also
Speaker 6: be a man and a man, it can be a woman.
Speaker 6: There's lots of different ways a family can look like, right,
Speaker 6: And those are conversations that you have as a young age.
Speaker 6: I mean, if you look at a book for our
Speaker 6: children to talk about sex, and how your your body develops,
Speaker 6: and these things about families and it's all in there. Right,
Speaker 6: it's Dutch books like that, but they're written like that
Speaker 6: for kids as young as yeah, four or five six, right,
Speaker 6: this conversation.
Speaker 3: Just as a point of comparison.
Speaker 4: I remember when my son gave was I'm going to
Speaker 4: guess ten or eleven, and he finally said, okay, no kidding,
Speaker 4: how do babies happen?
Speaker 3: How does this happen? And my wife and I were
Speaker 3: so prepared.
Speaker 4: We had the graphs and the charts and the language,
Speaker 4: and they explained and I think we answered him for
Speaker 4: about thirty five minutes.
Speaker 1: Wow, you did.
Speaker 3: And then at.
Speaker 4: The present, right, it was about five thirty in the
Speaker 4: afternoon when this happened, and my son's reaction was, I uh,
Speaker 4: I got to take a nap.
Speaker 3: It was out for the night.
Speaker 1: We were so overwhelming. Broke him.
Speaker 3: We broke him.
Speaker 1: Also. In prepping for this, I saw it like in Finland,
Speaker 1: which is considered the happy country, okay, that they have
Speaker 1: and you may have too, the fact that that there's
Speaker 1: brutal there's honestly like here, you ask somebody how you doing,
Speaker 1: they go awesome, awesome, It's always great, and I always go,
Speaker 1: I don't even know what that looks like. But there
Speaker 1: if you say how are things going, you can say
Speaker 1: having a bad day, having a tough time, and you're
Speaker 1: encouraged to be more honest about that that not everything
Speaker 1: is awesome, so you know your kid's expectation isn't just
Speaker 1: those That's the answer. People don't want to hear about
Speaker 1: your aggravation. Is that acting exactly?
Speaker 6: Yeah? Yeah, And we're very down to earth so.
Speaker 1: Generally, so.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it isn't all all perfect and wonderful all the time.
Speaker 6: And I think the Dutch are very good at showing
Speaker 6: that and being direct, sometimes too direct for some people.
Speaker 1: That yields me to like a perfect curve episode would
Speaker 1: be I don't want to go there because when I
Speaker 1: ask and you say not good, and you go, now
Speaker 1: you're into it. You got to hear why, and it gets.
Speaker 3: Exactly yeah, And do people spend.
Speaker 1: You're on your way to the story, you say hi
Speaker 1: to somebody because you think it's going to be a
Speaker 1: two second conversation, they say bad day, and you go why,
Speaker 1: And now, all of a sudden chance, your whole day
Speaker 1: because you got to hear what they're doing and then
Speaker 1: you got to jump into help. What happens with the
Speaker 1: bad day? How do you respond to that? Are you
Speaker 1: supposed to ask? Why is the next question?
Speaker 6: I don't know. I think it'd be nice to say oh,
Speaker 6: or I'm sorry to hear that, or you know, some
Speaker 6: kind of sympathy would be nice.
Speaker 1: Keep you going. You can do sympathy on the move,
Speaker 1: like oh, that sucks, and keep going.
Speaker 6: No, that sucks me too, I'm having.
Speaker 3: A that's the shield me too. You're having a bad mind, I'm.
Speaker 1: Getting a data.
Speaker 6: But you also can connect over that, right, like like
Speaker 6: with parents that sometimes I think it's like, oh, it's
Speaker 6: all perfect and it's so wonderful all the time. No,
Speaker 6: it sometimes it's really hard and sometimes it sucks. And
Speaker 6: then you can if you're honest about that, you have
Speaker 6: a connection, right, and then you can you can learn
Speaker 6: from each other, you can share, you can.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but you're help each other if I'm understanding it correctly.
Speaker 4: That Dutch system also has it builds in the to
Speaker 4: the sauce when a child is born, more time for
Speaker 4: parents and children to be together. Like I've read somewhere,
Speaker 4: I want to get it right. The Dutch parents receive
Speaker 4: an average of sixteen point four paid weeks of leave
Speaker 4: for each child.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so the mother has paid paid leave, so pregnancy
Speaker 6: leave for yeah about four months, and you can choose
Speaker 6: how you divide that, so you could take four weeks
Speaker 6: like before the jew date, and then three months three
Speaker 6: months afterwards. Fathers also have paid parental leave, and next
Speaker 6: to the pregnancy leave. For women, you also have paid
Speaker 6: parental leave and sometimes unpaid parntal leave. So I, for example,
Speaker 6: took after I gave birth to both my children eight
Speaker 6: months off after they were born.
Speaker 4: And as a country, the people in the country, this
Speaker 4: is encouraged.
Speaker 3: It's not. It's not like somebody would look at you
Speaker 3: and go, oh oh.
Speaker 1: It shirking.
Speaker 4: It's actually it's an accepted and positive part of the
Speaker 4: culture there.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and I mean I think what you can do
Speaker 6: is also work less hours, right and still get paid
Speaker 6: the same amount until your child is a certain age,
Speaker 6: So you could if you work four days, you could
Speaker 6: work three days for I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's supplemented in other words, while you're doing that.
Speaker 4: Well, that's yeah, that's a really I know, but it's
Speaker 4: hard to work three and be paid for four, I know.
Speaker 3: Really, how do I work for one and get paid
Speaker 3: for eight. How do I do that?
Speaker 1: Here? You have women texting as they're giving it's push
Speaker 1: hold on. I guess I got to ask you about punishment.
Speaker 1: So how do you punish in that country? Is it
Speaker 1: time out? When a kid does something rare or something wrong? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Your children, and you've got to punish your child. What's
Speaker 1: what's punishment looked like?
Speaker 6: Generally? I would I would say punishment doesn't work as
Speaker 6: well as rewards.
Speaker 1: Punishment doesn't work as well as reward. No, wow, So.
Speaker 6: What what you want to focus on more is rewarding
Speaker 6: the child for the good behavior instead of punishing them
Speaker 6: for the bad behavior.
Speaker 3: So are there things like timeouts or or.
Speaker 6: People use time?
Speaker 1: But no hitting it right now? Smacking? Nobody gets smacked.
Speaker 6: Right, listen, I'm sure it happened, right, But it's not.
Speaker 1: It's frowned upon. It's not a thing.
Speaker 6: It's not it's not frowned upon. It's illegal.
Speaker 1: It's illegal. Well that's more than yes, yes, yes, okay.
Speaker 4: I feel like the the the young people in my
Speaker 4: life generally seem to have less resilience in some ways,
Speaker 4: and perhaps because my generation of parents have jumped in
Speaker 4: a little too often have wanted to protect them from
Speaker 4: the perceived dangers or the real dangers. I think that's
Speaker 4: where a lot of young people being triggered by things
Speaker 4: that you go, well, yes we're talking about something that's terrible,
Speaker 4: but you don't have to take it on to yourself
Speaker 4: and bear that experience that isn't even yours kind of thing.
Speaker 3: Are you experience in your part of the world. Are
Speaker 3: you experiencing any of that?
Speaker 4: I guess I'm fascinated about how young people are being
Speaker 4: made to be resilient against, like I said, social media
Speaker 4: and this perception that things are bad, things are dangerous, And.
Speaker 6: Oh sure, I think here as well, we struggle with,
Speaker 6: you know, worries about climate, worries about the future. But
Speaker 6: it's all about how you've learned to in general deal
Speaker 6: with worry and badness and being able to talk about
Speaker 6: it rely on your social network. That's really really important, right.
Speaker 6: So I don't think it's that they don't have it.
Speaker 6: I think maybe they can cope with it maybe a
Speaker 6: little bit better.
Speaker 4: And is that just because of the system in which
Speaker 4: they've been raised. Is it because of those cultural things
Speaker 4: you were describing of letting them problem solve a little
Speaker 4: bit longer, letting them experience their own emotions.
Speaker 6: Just I think it's a big combination of things. I mean,
Speaker 6: you have to also realize, I mean, we are quite
Speaker 6: a there's a lot of problems in the netherolence, but
Speaker 6: we're also a very rich country with a lot to
Speaker 6: offer the people that live here, right, So I think
Speaker 6: it also has to do with our standard of living, right,
Speaker 6: that helps as well. So I think it's a huge
Speaker 6: combination of things. And here as well, we do see
Speaker 6: our young people struggling with depression as well. That you know,
Speaker 6: we still have a lot of young people who are
Speaker 6: dying because of suicide. So it's not all great, right,
Speaker 6: but there are things that are going better compared to
Speaker 6: other people.
Speaker 3: You can, I let you go.
Speaker 4: I just this is something I've always wanted to ask
Speaker 4: somebody who does what you do for a living. Okay,
Speaker 4: do you feel any added burden to have the best
Speaker 4: kids because of what you do?
Speaker 3: Does everybody look at you and go, oh, she's the
Speaker 3: child psychology expert.
Speaker 4: If her kids aren't perfect, then you know, is there
Speaker 4: a pressure on you?
Speaker 6: I've heard I've actually had someone say that to me
Speaker 6: that I'm like well, I'm not perfect, right, And the
Speaker 6: worst thing is is like I know, in the moment
Speaker 6: when I'm doing something that is not helpful or not good,
Speaker 6: I'm very aware aware, right, So I get angry at
Speaker 6: my kids, you know, I I snap at them sometimes,
Speaker 6: and I'm so aware of that. I'm like, oh, this
Speaker 6: is not good. But yeah, I'm also a human.
Speaker 3: Being and you're more.
Speaker 4: Can you be forgiving of yourself because you do know that?
Speaker 4: That's you know, It's like when I do a bad performance,
Speaker 4: I go okay, but I also know how to do
Speaker 4: a good performance, so I'll do a better one tomorrow.
Speaker 3: Is it that kind of thing I.
Speaker 6: Do try to I try to be mindful of that,
Speaker 6: right that you know, I'm a human being. I have
Speaker 6: my good days and I have moments that are also
Speaker 6: not so good. But then to give myself another try again.
Speaker 6: And then I'm teaching my children that as well. Right,
Speaker 6: I'm teaching my children I don't need to be perfect.
Speaker 6: It's about how I then solve it with them and
Speaker 6: I apologize to them or I explain to them and
Speaker 6: they learn from that again. So using that moment that
Speaker 6: didn't go so well for them to grow again, She.
Speaker 1: Said, so goes you don't Mamma does for a living
Speaker 1: your message you get to I give you a little
Speaker 1: independence at age four, and you know you got a tattoo.
Speaker 1: How does that reflect? How does that reflect? How does
Speaker 1: that reflect on me? And also the pressure of the
Speaker 1: entire country is going we can't drop to number three?
Speaker 1: Come on you lie an interview? Lie smile? Okay, well,
Speaker 1: thank you for the time. Thanks so much for coming on.
Speaker 1: And I hope your kids never one stays number one.
Speaker 1: What's the happiest kid? So that was that was kind
Speaker 1: of fascinating in the sense that it really pointed out
Speaker 1: my short comings everything she said to do.
Speaker 4: Then that's the subtitle of our show, Our Shortcomings, Things
Speaker 4: we don't know and did wrong.
Speaker 1: So when we asked the question, we saw that they
Speaker 1: are the happiest kids in the world. I guess we
Speaker 1: have to follow up with are they Are they the
Speaker 1: happiest kids in the world. So I don't know if
Speaker 1: they're pushing it a little bit. I don't know if
Speaker 1: they have a publicist who.
Speaker 4: Went around and interviewed every kid in every country and
Speaker 4: then took the median answers and went, oh, clearly they.
Speaker 1: Do it with a series of his crime. They do
Speaker 1: a lot of different different points, they rate them then
Speaker 1: and then pick the country.
Speaker 3: That's the question. This is and this is a this is.
Speaker 1: An instential question.
Speaker 3: What are you happy?
Speaker 4: If you if you, if you really had to answer
Speaker 4: that question you stopped on the street today.
Speaker 3: Given where you are in your life. I know the
Speaker 3: world around.
Speaker 4: Us is a little crazy, but have you lived that
Speaker 4: happy life?
Speaker 1: Really? And are you happy? So my answer to that
Speaker 1: is I am grateful. But from a family they grew
Speaker 1: up in the dark, in the shadow, you know that
Speaker 1: we're always scared stuffs gonna happen because stuff did happen.
Speaker 1: Content for me is happiness, like I'm content. Ah, does
Speaker 1: that make sense?
Speaker 4: Yeah, here's here's my answer to that. I and I
Speaker 4: only realized this in therapy. So the seminal Broadway show
Speaker 4: that changed my life, that made me want to be
Speaker 4: an actor and is one of my favorite pieces of
Speaker 4: theater of all time is the show Pippin, And if
Speaker 4: you've never seen it, it's a lighthearted piece about Pippin,
Speaker 4: the son of Charlemagne, but it's not a historical piece.
Speaker 4: Who is born into extraordinary circumstances and expects of himself
Speaker 4: that he should be extraordinary and he doesn't know what
Speaker 4: he should be extraordinary in. So this character played by
Speaker 4: Ben Vereen, this player comes and says, well, I'm going
Speaker 4: to show you the world of politics.
Speaker 3: I'm going to show you the world of warfare. I'm
Speaker 3: going to show you the world of romance. I'm going
Speaker 3: to show you the war and you're going to find
Speaker 3: your thing and be extraordinary.
Speaker 4: And along the way, everything keeps disappointing him. Nothing is
Speaker 4: what he thought it would be, and in his depression,
Speaker 4: he winds up on a farm and he falls in
Speaker 4: love with the woman that run the widow that runs
Speaker 4: the farm and her son, and he's really content and
Speaker 4: he goes, wait a minute, this isn't no good.
Speaker 3: This is not extraordinary. I need to be extraordinary.
Speaker 4: And he goes back to the player played by Ben
Speaker 4: Veren and goes, show me what's extraordinary, and the player goes, well,
Speaker 4: here's what would be great is our grand finale. We
Speaker 4: do this whole setup and you set yourself on fire
Speaker 4: and you go up like a bolt, like the sun itself.
Speaker 4: It would be the most spectacular thing. And he goes, yeah,
Speaker 4: but if it's wrong, I'm gonna have a lot of
Speaker 4: trouble trying something else, and he compromises, and he settles
Speaker 4: for the widow and the child. And I used to think,
Speaker 4: I want to be Ben Vereen. I want to be
Speaker 4: that magical, charismatic, powerful bright light. Everything's exciting, everything's hot.
Speaker 4: And I realized that there is no contentment there. That
Speaker 4: if you chase happiness that is so far above the
Speaker 4: median line, all you can do is fall. When that
Speaker 4: thing that has risen you to the top of the
Speaker 4: roller coaster is nowhere to go, HiT's there. You're going
Speaker 4: to drop so far below the median line that it's
Speaker 4: going to be rushing. And with maturity, what I learned,
Speaker 4: and you can't tell this to somebody I think younger
Speaker 4: than forty years old, happiness burns very very low. It's
Speaker 4: a contentment. It's just it is not the highest ties.
Speaker 1: It is this.
Speaker 4: Continuous sweetness in your life where you can stop and
Speaker 4: go I am blessed, so I'm happy.
Speaker 1: I'm happy because the contentment. It makes me happy. Honestly,
Speaker 1: that I gave you a gift this year for Christmas,
Speaker 1: Yes that was meaningful thing. And you gave me a belt,
Speaker 1: but it's the best belt wraps around you like an anaconda.
Speaker 3: And I also gave one. Tell mister David, by.
Speaker 1: The way, I should give David bore run because this
Speaker 1: was one of the funniest things David ever said. So
Speaker 1: Jason gives me a belt. Tell them what I gave.
Speaker 1: I gave you a Pippin. You gave me an original
Speaker 1: Hirshfield pip because I know. So I get the belt
Speaker 1: and I go, okay, hurtfelt Pippin the belt. So, and
Speaker 1: by the way, thanks for ruining Pippin. I was gonna
Speaker 1: go see it. The belt is self closing, you know,
Speaker 1: it hooks, it has no holes.
Speaker 4: It works on this ratchet thing which allows you to
Speaker 4: adjust it in very small increment.
Speaker 3: But we can't get out throughout an normal person's day.
Speaker 4: But if you don't know how to open the belt,
Speaker 4: it's a little true.
Speaker 1: So David google Heeint calls me right after we got
Speaker 1: the belt and we had talked to the woman who's
Speaker 1: the python hunter in the every woman that found the python,
Speaker 1: and David calls me, I don't know and goes, I
Speaker 1: need Pete Peter, I need the phone number of the
Speaker 1: python lady. I go, what do you need? The phone
Speaker 1: number of the Python lady for you says, I can't
Speaker 1: get Jason's belt. Ik. A picture is her wrestling his
Speaker 1: pace to the floor trying to get the which was
Speaker 1: to David, David as good as it gets.
Speaker 4: So google huns and belt company, ladies and gentlemen they
Speaker 4: of modern.
Speaker 1: Well, never failure, and you may not be a great gift.
Speaker 1: So David, what's the Google him for today? What didn't
Speaker 1: we do? What did we cover? What should we know?
Speaker 3: Well, I'm wearing the belt right now, so am i,
Speaker 3: David Man, I'm gonna get right here.
Speaker 1: By the way, this is one of those times with
Speaker 1: the audio version much better.
Speaker 8: Yeah, let's do some flash chants are all right? Wow,
Speaker 8: they could transplant though.
Speaker 9: Because my whole body it falls out. It's not just
Speaker 9: my end, all right.
Speaker 10: So David, well, you know, there was some confusion as
Speaker 10: to is it called Netherlands, the Netherlands, Holland or.
Speaker 3: Whatever it is?
Speaker 10: And why the hell do you call the people from
Speaker 10: their Dutch right.
Speaker 1: It's the Netherlands in the Holland things. She didn't call
Speaker 1: it Holland. You go aha, And then again Dutch, what
Speaker 1: is this?
Speaker 3: What's going on?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, well it comes from because it was a
Speaker 10: region that was then controlled by the Holy Roman.
Speaker 3: Empire for a while before it.
Speaker 10: Was then congealed into a country. Many of the English
Speaker 10: speaking traders would come to the coast, and part of
Speaker 10: the Netherlands.
Speaker 3: Is called Holland.
Speaker 10: Holland is more of a regional area now. For many
Speaker 10: years even the government used the Netherlands in Holland interchangeably.
Speaker 3: But at some point in.
Speaker 10: The not so recent past for marketing reasons and they
Speaker 10: wanted to stay globally competitive, and there was confusion, they
Speaker 10: decided to go with the Netherlands, which physically.
Speaker 3: Means a low lying country. So there you go.
Speaker 10: Now Dutch, Why are they the Dutch people? This again
Speaker 10: goes back to old English and blah blah blah. But
Speaker 10: needless to say, the people from both both the now
Speaker 10: Netherlands and Germany were called dutchy you may know that
Speaker 10: of course Dutsch Deutschland is the way to say Germany
Speaker 10: and German. So basically the whole region there were referred.
Speaker 3: To as Dutch.
Speaker 4: You know, I learned so much and I still understand nothing.
Speaker 4: I still don't know why villains as Dutch people in home?
Speaker 1: You know what they may be the happiest people, but
Speaker 1: they're not the best at naming the country. They could
Speaker 1: be like really low, really low down, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm happy because I'm wearing the belt the belt, and.
Speaker 1: I'm happy because it's going to take you forty minutes.
Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 3: Happy everybody your check.
Speaker 2: Now, Really, that's another episode of Really No Really. It
Speaker 2: comes to a clothes Let's play a game.
Speaker 3: I'll name eight.
Speaker 2: Prominent countries and you guess where they rank in the
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three survey or Happiest Countries in the World.
Speaker 2: The answers will amaze you. But first let's thank our guests.
Speaker 2: Very Unique vander Clay. You can follow her at her
Speaker 2: website calmmind Psychology dot nl and on LinkedIn, where she
Speaker 2: is at very Unique vander Clay. Find all pertinent links
Speaker 2: in our show notes, our little show hangs out on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube,
Speaker 2: and threads at Really No Really Podcasts, And of course,
Speaker 2: you can share your thoughts and feedback with us online
Speaker 2: at really No. If you have a really some amazing
Speaker 2: factor story that boggles your mind, share it with us
Speaker 2: and if we use it, we will send you a
Speaker 2: little gift nothing life changing, obviously, but it's the thought
Speaker 2: that counts. Check out our full episodes on YouTube, hit
Speaker 2: that subscribe button and take that bell so you're updated
Speaker 2: when we release new videos and episodes.
Speaker 3: Which we do each Tuesday.
Speaker 2: So listen and follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple
Speaker 2: Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And now let's
Speaker 2: play our game. I'll name eight countries alphabetically. You try
Speaker 2: and guess where they ball in the ranking of happiest
Speaker 2: countries in the world. This is from a total ranking
Speaker 2: of one hundred and forty three countries, so one through
Speaker 2: one forty three. This is not child happiness, this is
Speaker 2: all around happiness. And as a bonus, I'll tell you
Speaker 2: where the United States falls at the end. Here are
Speaker 2: your eight countries, alphabetically, Colombia, Egypt, England, Iraq, Japan, Mexico, Pakistan,
Speaker 2: and Poland. Once again, they are Columbia, Egypt, England, Iraqi, Japan, Mexico, Pakistan,
Speaker 2: and Poland. I'll give you a few moments. Okay, here's
Speaker 2: your answers. Columbia is seventy eight, Egypt is one twenty seven,
Speaker 2: England is twenty, Iraq is ninety two, Japan is fifty one,
Speaker 2: Mexico is twenty five, Pakistan is one O eight, and
Speaker 2: Poland is thirty five.
Speaker 3: And where are my fellow Americans.
Speaker 2: Do you think the USA falls?
Speaker 6: Well?
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty three, it fell out of the top
Speaker 2: twenty for the first time. We currently said at number
Speaker 2: twenty three. And with that, I'm moving to Finland. Toydella oikoshti.
Speaker 2: That's finished for really no really, or it would be
Speaker 2: if I had said it remotely correctly, which I am
Speaker 2: sure I did not. Really No Razy, really, no really
Speaker 2: is the production of iHeartRadio and Plase Entertainment