1 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 1: It's the podcast. It's it could happen here. It is 2 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: about something that could happen here very specifically. Um, yeah, 3 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:16,599 Speaker 1: I'm I'm Christopher Wong. I'm here with James Stout and 4 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: Garrison Davis. Hello. Hello, do you both Hello? We all 5 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,279 Speaker 1: joined the sim call that that did happen here, and 6 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 1: that did show everybody. All right, Okay, so that's the 7 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: thing that that did happen here, and now we're gonna 8 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: talk with something that could happen here. And that specific 9 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 1: thing is, uh a call by two Harvard academics to 10 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: hire five hundred thousand more cops. Nope, so okay there, 11 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: Like I don't I don't know when this is going 12 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: to go up. But sometime in the past that there 13 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: was a piece that went viral by civil rights lawyer 14 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 1: and anti prison activist turned media critic Alec Karaka Tanis 15 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: about a pair of Harvard academics who wrote this article 16 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: calling for five thousand more cops. And this is okay, 17 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: Like the fact that we have academics writing position papers 18 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: basically that are calling for five hundred thousand more cops 19 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 1: is terrifying in and of itself. But but but crime, 20 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: is that a record high. You're about to see ship. 21 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:15,479 Speaker 1: You're about to see You're about to see and hear 22 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: ship that is going to make your fucking ears bleed 23 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: because it's not like, Okay, normally these are Harvard academics, right, 24 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: So you're assuming these are like right wing nats at Googles, right, 25 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: or like their equivalent in in in this sort of 26 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: like you know, these are not. This was written by 27 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: a socialist. And when I say a socialist right like, 28 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: I don't mean a sort of like one of the 29 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: sort of like terminally online desperate cranks trying to hold 30 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:42,680 Speaker 1: together like a Maoist micro sect. I'm talking about people 31 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 1: who are incredibly well connected inside the mainstream socialist left. 32 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 1: So the authors of this call for five hundred thousand 33 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: more cops are Christopher Lewis, who is a Harvard law 34 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: professor who makes me embarrassed to have my own name, 35 00:01:56,240 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: and more interestingly, Harvard sociology for us are auditor Usumi. 36 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: So who is auditor Usumi Um. He is on the board. 37 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: He's on the editorial board of Catalyst, which is a 38 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: Marxist man. Okay, do you do you have you two 39 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: know what Catalyst is? Yeah, besides the sequel to the 40 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: mirror original game and now I doubt Yeah, Okay, so 41 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: they're they're a a Marxist magazine. There's supposed to be 42 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: a more sort of theoretical Marxist like magazine founded by 43 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: a guy named vie Vic Chibber, who's a pretty influential 44 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:30,959 Speaker 1: sort of like soaked n Marxist who could be found 45 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: literally in any any of the last like five decades, 46 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:36,799 Speaker 1: you can find him yelling about the cultural turn in 47 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:44,679 Speaker 1: academia and calling for a return of political economy. Yes, 48 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: yelling about this for decades longer. I think he's been 49 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 1: yelling about this for longer than I've been alive. God, Like, 50 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: that's how long go on. People have definitely been like 51 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: fetching about the cultural turn for longer than any of 52 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: us have been a live. Yeah, And and they've been 53 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: wrong for that entire time. And she was like one 54 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: of the guys who trained us to me in the 55 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: first place. Now catalysts other major founder um is much 56 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 1: more famous, and that's someone you probably have heard of, 57 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 1: who is one Bosh car Sonkara, who is the current 58 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: President of the Nation and also the founder of Jocobin 59 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,679 Speaker 1: where and this is where it gets fun us to me. 60 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 1: Also on the editorial board of Jocobin, this is the 61 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: guy caring for five hundred that was more cops. Right. 62 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: This isn't coming from the usable sort of like rabid reactionaries. 63 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: This is coming from people who have serious credentials in 64 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: the mainstream socialists left and Okay, so all right, I 65 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: want to talk about what's actually in the paper. And 66 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: the first thing I need I ever want to understand 67 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: about this from the get go is that this is 68 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: maybe the worst paper I've ever read. Like if I 69 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: had tried to turn this paper into my like freshman 70 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: like into like my an undergrad class, I would have failed. 71 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: Like when when when I was in my freshman year 72 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: in college, I had to read Biblical analysis written by 73 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: a freshman Ted Cruise supporter who was arguing that there 74 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: was a problem in the Bible where there was no 75 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 1: way for God to talk to people. This is worse 76 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:23,359 Speaker 1: than that and the Koran. It's like, how is how 77 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: how is that worth? Chris? Okay, So let's let's let's 78 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: just start off right. I'm gonna I'm gonna start off 79 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: with a random part in the middle, so you understand 80 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: how just mind numbingly atrocious. This is okay, So I'm 81 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna read this. This is an article called, 82 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: and I'm not kidding about the title of this quote, 83 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 1: the Injustice of under policing in America. Uh yeah, so 84 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: we're starting we're starting off so yeah, so so, so 85 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,720 Speaker 1: before we get into the actual main argument, I'm just 86 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: gonna read this quote, which is right. Even if our 87 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:07,160 Speaker 1: answers prove unsound, we hope that the combination of empirical 88 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:11,839 Speaker 1: social science and analytic moral and political philosophy we can 89 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 1: we contribute can help eliminate what alternative answers to those 90 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: questions might have to look like to be sound. Which, 91 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:23,359 Speaker 1: first off, terrible sis. This is why I would prefer 92 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 1: the immortal science of Arktis Latinism. This is awful, Like 93 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 1: said said this writing terrible said it back to an editor. 94 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: Give them a decade, they'll come back with it. Second off, 95 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 1: I literally cannot imagine two disciplines I would like rather 96 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,719 Speaker 1: less apply to the problem of mass incarceration than those 97 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,280 Speaker 1: like these authors have dared asked the question, what if 98 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:48,039 Speaker 1: we combined the bone rattling stupidity of analytic philosophy with 99 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: the sociologist, complete inability to do statistics. And the answer 100 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 1: is this, and what I say, complete inability to do statistics? Right, 101 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:59,479 Speaker 1: I need people to understand how bad this article is, 102 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: like I I like, I like viscerally needs you to understand. 103 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 1: So here, here is here, here is a quote. Here's 104 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 1: another section of this article. But while firearm availability, no 105 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: doubt has some impact on the level of violence, we 106 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,679 Speaker 1: think the effect is likely to be small. A large 107 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: effect would be difficult to square with other patterns across place, persons, 108 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: and time. Consider, for example, that while the United States 109 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: has ten times as many guns as El Salvador, the 110 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:30,719 Speaker 1: homicide rate there is roughly ten times higher than it 111 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 1: is here. Now stats nowhere is Think for a second 112 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: about what they just compared, Right, the United States has 113 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: ten times as many guns, the homicide rate in El 114 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: Salvador as ten times higher. Right pulation, Yeah, yeah, I think, Okay, 115 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: what what does the US have more of than El Salvador? No, no, 116 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: we have more guns, but we also have fifty times 117 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: the population. The million people of Salvador is six point 118 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 1: five million people, which means, again, if if you're looking 119 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: at this in terms of guns per capita, right, a 120 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: salpitarors guns per capita is actually five times higher than ours. Wow, 121 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: that's quite impressive. Yeah, and financial perspective because we have 122 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: a lot of guns. Yeah. Right, And you know, okay, again, 123 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: if you're if you're gonna do basic statistics, right, you 124 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: would think that these professors at Harvard University would know 125 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: the difference between a rate of gun ownership and the 126 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 1: pure owner of ship of guns. They do not. They 127 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: do not do they not? Have they decided that they're 128 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: going to pretend they don't. I don't. Okay, here's the 129 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: thing going into this, right, I assume this was just 130 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: sort of pure hackshit, and I think a lot of 131 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: it is. I think they also are genuinely this dumb 132 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: like genuine I I it's it's really incredible. Like I 133 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: mean again, like the thing like like the thing they've 134 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: actually demonstrated with their own number BRUS is precisely the 135 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: opposite of what they're arguing. The thing they've demonstrated with 136 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: the numbers they have given us is that there is 137 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: a correlation between gun ownership rates and the homicide rate. Right, 138 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: Like they're trying to there. This entire section is about 139 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: proving that there that they that the number of guns. 140 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: Doesn't like that. This isn't even like this isn't me 141 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: like like I don't like this is not like me 142 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: yelling about gun control or whatever. Like. This is just 143 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: to get you to understand the level of statistics these 144 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: people are on. And also I should point this Outum. 145 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: I tracked down their citation because I wanted to make 146 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,319 Speaker 1: sure I didn't I wasn't misunderstanding their arguments, right. So 147 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: I tracked down their citation on these numbers, and I 148 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 1: went to the paper they cited, and the thing they 149 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: cited does not have a gun ownership numbers for El Salvador. 150 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: So I have no idea where they getting any of 151 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: these numbers. They apparently they quite possibly have pulled this 152 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: out of there as completely because apparently apparently nobody checked 153 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: if their citations actually contain the things that they're supposed 154 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: to get. This is what I wanted to talk about. 155 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: There is a thing that happens when you get Tanya 156 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: or you've become a professor at the various university, and 157 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: that thing is you just say shit and people trust you. 158 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: Like we've seen this time and again in the academy. 159 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: Right that, like peer review is not serving its function 160 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 1: because like the status hierarchy of people in academia is 161 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: more important to both the peer reviewers and the people 162 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: doing the writing than the actual process of peer review. Yeah, 163 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:28,559 Speaker 1: like their citations are this is an interesting Uh, this 164 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: is I don't know that they they they've made the 165 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: capital letters larger, they use small arms survey. I guess 166 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: for that. Obviously it doesn't it doesn't. It does show 167 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: it doesn't have those numbers. It's amazing. Okay, so you know, 168 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: we've we've we've established that these people are absolute hacks 169 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:47,959 Speaker 1: who whose work would have gotten be failed out of 170 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: an undergrad course. So to be fair, maybe it's actually 171 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 1: it's it's technically possible. The University of Chicago just holds 172 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: its students to more rigorous standards than Harvard or M I. T. 173 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: Whose journal published this does their intellectuals. So you know, 174 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: I we we never know. This is also I never 175 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:07,959 Speaker 1: used Jacobin as a source on the show because they 176 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 1: pay fifty bucks per article and that ship way. Yeah, 177 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 1: Jacobin not a cool publication, actually not mega based. Yeah, 178 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: your workers, if you're pertaining to be socialised, yeah, you're 179 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: trying to be like a labor but Bosh Garconara is 180 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: on the record talking about the quote, his quote petite 181 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: bourgeois hustle, talking about how we made Jacobin. So you know, okay, 182 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 1: we'll we'll we'll get back to the class aspect of 183 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: all of this next episode. But okay, let's let's go 184 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: back to this paper and let's take a second just 185 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: look at what they're actually arguing. And the first thing 186 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: I need you used to understand about their argument is 187 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: that their entire, the entire substantive argument of this paper 188 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: hinges on an absolutely enormous lie. Um he let me, 189 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: let let let me, let me we quote this lie. 190 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 1: Yet it also illustrates the much less well known fact 191 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: that America is not in all an outlier and it's 192 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 1: rate of policing. The United States has around two hundred 193 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: and twelve police officers for every hundred thousand total residents, 194 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: which ranks it in the forty one percentile of today's 195 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: developed world. Now, as Alec Carricatanas points out, they've deliberately 196 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 1: picked the lowest number of cops they can find any like, 197 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:23,199 Speaker 1: the lowest reported number of cops in the US I 198 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,319 Speaker 1: can find anywhere. Um, And so they picked six hundred 199 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: thousand from basically like it's they picked this number from 200 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 1: an FBI reporting thing. But the FBI also says that 201 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:35,719 Speaker 1: they don't have all the cops there because it's it's 202 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: like it's basically like a voluntary reporting thing. So there's 203 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 1: a bunch of cops that aren't there. And then, um, 204 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:44,680 Speaker 1: here's from Karakatatas, who's a piece about this quote the professors. 205 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 1: The professor then admitted privately over email that the US 206 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: census count is actually one million, two hundred twenty seven thousand, 207 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:56,839 Speaker 1: seven eight police. That's seventies six percent higher for the 208 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: number they chose to article. What is this anificates of 209 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:03,839 Speaker 1: this using this number they admitted to me, the United 210 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: States truthfully has one point one times the media rated 211 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: rich countries. So they've been over the email that they have. 212 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 1: This whole article is based on them lying how many 213 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: cops there are in the US, and it's actually way 214 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: worse than this because as as as he points out right, 215 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 1: this number than to the number that they're using only 216 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: tracks a public police, so they doesn't count private police. 217 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: And if you count private police, that number doubles. Again, 218 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 1: not like there's private police, there's there's no five cops. Right, 219 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: And and the other thing isn't this The other thing 220 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 1: is doesn't count? Is this counts zero federal agencies? I 221 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 1: just gonna say that it doesn't count. Federal agency does 222 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 1: doesn't count? Like state police even I think, I think, 223 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: actually I don't know. You can't shareff Is that not police? 224 00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 1: Their deputies? They're different highway patrol. Who's who's to say 225 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 1: who's spent more time on this? And they have already yeah, right, right, okay, 226 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: like to to get it to to get it understanding 227 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: of this, even if you exclude the Feds entirely right 228 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:19,839 Speaker 1: to exclud And again and this is actually a bad 229 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: idea because again we have like a fucking trillion federal agencies, 230 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: for example, ice in the border patrol, who again run 231 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 1: just another police state inside of the American police state, right, 232 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: we have that. And obviously, okay, so he's comparing our 233 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 1: our level of policing to policing in in uh in 234 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:40,439 Speaker 1: like European countries, right, And okay, I I don't want 235 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: to minimize how many border cops European countries have, but 236 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 1: the US has way fucking more border cups. They do 237 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 1: not like they do horrible things I will yell at 238 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: the until the end of time about how every every 239 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:59,439 Speaker 1: friend text member needs to be like redacted, etcetera, etcetera. Parody. 240 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:05,079 Speaker 1: But like, no, great, great, even even even if you 241 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: cut that out right, the actual number of cops in 242 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 1: the US is three times higher than the number they've 243 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: given us. Actually it might be yeah, yeah, okay, I 244 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 1: feel like there's there's anything that we can agree on 245 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: as a nation. Is that America kind of has a 246 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: lot of police. That's like, that's like what everyone kind 247 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: of knows. That's like people like the place with like 248 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: the really like it's like really militarized and heavy policing. Yeah, 249 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: like like a person who moved to America, it is 250 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: shocking how many cops there are, how many different cops 251 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: there are, and how there are cops everywhere all the time. 252 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: It is the thing that it is very different about America. 253 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: Oh god, okay, so statistic to get that number quite possibly, 254 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: like ship yeah yeah, I would absolutely if one of 255 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: my students in community, God days, we'd have a tool. Okay, okay, 256 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 1: So do you know what else is based on the 257 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 1: myth I under policing these adverts for private cops, Yes, 258 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 1: Federal Protective Service gets them. All right, we're back. Uh okay, 259 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: So all right, we've established that this this, this is 260 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: this is This argument is built on a pile of lines. However, 261 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: the actual content of the argument is also really funny 262 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: and completely incomprehensible. So their argument is that somehow, if 263 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: the US had more cops, right, and and and if 264 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: if if if the ratio of cops to people like 265 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: that the U S had was like in line with 266 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: the European countries, that somehow and there they never have 267 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: a mechanism for how this would happen. This would somehow 268 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: lower the incarceration rate. I think the mechanism is lyne uh. 269 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: That's what everyone says, is that we have more police 270 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: that lowers incarceration rates. Yeah. Yeah. The entire argument here 271 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: is what if the US was like Sweden, then there 272 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: would be five thousand more cops, but somehow also less 273 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 1: one also one point nine million less uh prisoners. So well, 274 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 1: anything that's different between US and Sweden is cops. Oh god? Okay, 275 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: So so what why are socialists pushing for this? And 276 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: especially socialists and again as these are these are people 277 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: who in their article admit that they think the best 278 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: way to deal with with poverty and with crime is 279 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: welfare programs, not mass incarceration. So okay, so why why 280 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: why are they pushing for this? And the initial answer 281 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: is that they think they can reduce crime, specifically homicides 282 00:16:54,320 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: by increasing policing, and they think which should be fair 283 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: is an opinion that I would say, at this point, 284 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:09,119 Speaker 1: probably the majority of Americans have maybe I don't know 285 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 1: if I buy that. I don't know if that I 286 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: think you may be a little bit further out of 287 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: the Overton window. I think the majority of Americans, I think, 288 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:22,959 Speaker 1: do do believe that if there's a few more cobs, 289 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,959 Speaker 1: maybe we'll have a few less murders. I don't know 290 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: what we'll we'll we'll see about that. But Okay. The 291 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: other thing, though, that's sort of like amazing about this, right, 292 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:34,719 Speaker 1: is that they think, okay, so they think they can 293 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 1: cut the homicide rate by hiring more police. They also 294 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: think that hiring more police I will solve the problem 295 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: with policing because the problem with police is that the 296 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:45,880 Speaker 1: police don't do enough, and so we need more of them. 297 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: And then and then and then also this will make 298 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 1: them less violent. I mean, this is something this is 299 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:57,360 Speaker 1: even the this is even like the whole like Joe 300 00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 1: Biden like, oh, we have to we can't. We can't 301 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 1: defund the police. We have to fund the police, have 302 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:05,239 Speaker 1: to resources because Brenie Sanders also made this achievement. If 303 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 1: they have less resources, then that means they'll have to 304 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 1: use more violence. And it's that that style of arguments, 305 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:16,199 Speaker 1: it's it's talking point. Yeah. But what's interesting about this 306 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:19,919 Speaker 1: again is that these people nominally are socialists, and you know, 307 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: in order to justify this right, they argued that while 308 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: being in prison is bad, and then they list a 309 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: bunch of consequences of being in prison, being in a 310 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: neighborhood is with high crime is also as bad for 311 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: the same reason. They're literally arguing that being in a 312 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 1: place with crime is basically the same as being in prison, 313 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 1: big time prison understanding. Like I look, okay, there are 314 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:53,160 Speaker 1: there are very few people I would ever say this. Look, 315 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:56,399 Speaker 1: I hope these people got to do withthnography of this 316 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: one day, Like I I hope, I hope they get 317 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 1: to go do what the inside of prison is, like 318 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,880 Speaker 1: I think participant observation. Yeah, I don't think it should 319 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 1: do this Like you like they're there there, there are 320 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: there are lines in this article like here here, here 321 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: is a random line I've pulled from this article, and 322 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: they say at one point quote, in fact, black people 323 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:20,360 Speaker 1: seem to be underrepresented among those who report ever having 324 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: been arrested in their lifetimes. What alright, that is a 325 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:32,679 Speaker 1: direct quote citation is what they They've done some absolutely 326 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: insane I'm not even I'm not I'm not actually going 327 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:37,440 Speaker 1: to dignify them by laying out the stats bullshit that 328 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: they've they've they've attempt to justify this, like we have 329 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 1: already seen what their stats look like. Theirs are trying 330 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: to compare a rate to the Yeah, it's insane, it's 331 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:51,639 Speaker 1: completely nuts. Like that's the one thing that that's the 332 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: one thing that even like racist like Republicans like no 333 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: is like they'll be like, yeah, there's more because because 334 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:04,680 Speaker 1: you don't like people and that's not why. But whatever. Yeah, 335 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:09,360 Speaker 1: I'm between this paragraph now and it is actually bad. 336 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: So okay, I think, okay, so we have established this 337 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: is bullshit, Right, I want to read a kind of 338 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: long section that I think gives the game away as 339 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: to why they're arguing this quote. We think in the 340 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 1: long run, a significant expansion of social policy, we reduce 341 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 1: crime by addressing its root causes, and in turn reduced 342 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 1: the need demand for both policing and imprisonments. Okay, other world, 343 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 1: this is true, I would say probably probably true. In 344 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: other work, we argue that any coherent conception of distributive 345 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: justice or economic efficiency entails that the United States should 346 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:49,679 Speaker 1: expand its social policy. But a significant expansion of social 347 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: policy requires significant redistribution from rich to poor. Redistribution of 348 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: this magnitude will require the poorer to wield some kind 349 00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: of leverage over the rich. Given the collapse of the 350 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 1: American labor movement and the electoral fracturing of the American 351 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 1: working class, we doubt we will see anything like this soon. 352 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 1: Our aim in this essay is to say something useful 353 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: about what should be done in the non ideal world 354 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 1: in which we live, not just in the ideal world 355 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:20,400 Speaker 1: in which we would like to live. Say hold on, wait, 356 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 1: let me let me let me read this next sentence. 357 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:26,400 Speaker 1: It gets worse. Okay, to say something about that question. 358 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:32,440 Speaker 1: We limit ourselves two options that are revenue neutral. Ah, 359 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: these are socialists so bizarre. I think they may have 360 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 1: walked outside. They've just given up. Yeah, like like they've 361 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 1: they've you know, okay, there's okay, so there's actually more 362 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:47,159 Speaker 1: of this that is also like like it keeps can 363 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 1: never have a better world. And you know what that means. 364 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: It's that we should have more police. Here here, here 365 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:59,120 Speaker 1: is here is their defense ofness. But why consider only 366 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: prisons and police. Why couldn't the government redistribute the existing 367 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 1: pool of money from prisons and police to social program 368 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 1: as many reformers have demanded. We argue in and What's 369 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,400 Speaker 1: Wrong with Mass Incarceration? Which is a book that they're 370 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 1: going to release that I hope nobody buys. I trust. 371 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 1: This is because social policy is bedeviled by what we 372 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: call the efficiency feasibility paradox. To address the root causes 373 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: of crime would be meaningfully to change the opportunity structure 374 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: for the most disadvantaged people in America. To do this 375 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 1: by expanding untargeted universal social programs will require significant resources, 376 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,400 Speaker 1: since the vast majority of beneficiaries are not America's most 377 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: disadvantaged people. Because penal spending is hyper targeted in a 378 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,360 Speaker 1: way that social spending is not. It costs about three 379 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: billion dollars a year to run the world's most extensive 380 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: penal state, but something like three trillion dollars to run 381 00:22:56,359 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: its most abnemic welfare state. We admit that our signific 382 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: this is on a slightly lated paragraph. We admit there 383 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 1: are significant obstacles to changing the balance that state and 384 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 1: local government strike between the arms of law enforcements. There are, 385 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: after all, reasons that the United States has involved at 386 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: the present day penal balance. But our view is at 387 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: the first world balance. So the first world balances is 388 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,199 Speaker 1: the thing they're talking about that like supposedly Norway has, 389 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,679 Speaker 1: or some ship where they have bore cops, but like 390 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: per capita but less people incarcerated, um. But our view 391 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,640 Speaker 1: is that the first world balance is nonetheless substantially more 392 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: feasible than any of the than the kinds of things 393 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: that reformers tend to demand today. In the highly unequal 394 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 1: aligarhic America in which we live at present, calls to 395 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 1: calls to reallocate a fixed pool of revenue will meet 396 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,920 Speaker 1: with less powerful opposition than calls to tacks the rich. 397 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 1: That is why we assume it is infeasible to expect 398 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 1: the United States to build a generous welfare state in 399 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: the mold of the Scandinavian social democracies. Proposals to use 400 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 1: hyper targeted social policy to adjust the root causes of 401 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: crime are similarly infeasible, as we have argued, to be efficient, 402 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 1: a social policy intervention must meaningfully transform the opportunity structures 403 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,439 Speaker 1: of those most likely to commit crime. I mean, an 404 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: intervention that transformed the structures of opportunity only in only 405 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: those in this position will up end the effective in 406 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,440 Speaker 1: central structure of unequal societies, thus coming up the economy 407 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: and eliciting political opposition. I mean, here's Here's the thing 408 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: is that in some ways I agree that the United 409 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 1: States won't get better by making social policies within my lifetime. 410 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,919 Speaker 1: But my solution to this is a legalist lifestylist of 411 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,360 Speaker 1: not hiring more cops. Well, don't worry, there is there 412 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:48,160 Speaker 1: is a significant section of this weather shipped on anarchism. Okay, okay, 413 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,680 Speaker 1: this is what fucking happens when all your friends are 414 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 1: also Harvard professors. I mean it's also real fucking people, 415 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 1: because you don't fucking talk to them and they're like, oh, 416 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: we the liver. It's it's obviously written by somebody who's 417 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: currently like well off, like it's they're currently doing well, 418 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: which is why because they because they don't think the 419 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,919 Speaker 1: world's gonna turn into socialist utopia, but they're personally doing okay. 420 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: The way to make the world feel better for them 421 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 1: is maybe more police will make me feel safer. That's 422 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,200 Speaker 1: that's what that's what they're doing is because they're already 423 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: well off and they're like, well, social isn't coming. I 424 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 1: want to live a happier life. Maybe police will keep 425 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 1: the bad people away from me. Yeah, because they see 426 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: poverty of an issue of poverty is upstream of crime. 427 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: A crime is a fucking annoyance to them because someone 428 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 1: might steal their fucking BMW again crime living in a 429 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: place where crime is the same as being in prison 430 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: because you cannot conceive because it's socialism without sucking empathy 431 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: or experience of fucking poverty. Right, So you can make 432 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: these ludicrous statements and all your friends in the smoking 433 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 1: room a Harvard will agree with you. Go ham yes, 434 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,719 Speaker 1: and I mean, I mean this is the thing like 435 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:10,199 Speaker 1: they they they fundamentally like when Bernie lost the election, 436 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: these people gave up on politics, Like that's what's happening there. 437 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,119 Speaker 1: They're arguing that like not even is not even just 438 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: like the class rouges is unwinnable. They're arguing that basic 439 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: liberal politics is impossible, right, like taxing the rich like 440 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 1: is a thing that that that's not like a radical thing, 441 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: that's like like the basic that's like a basic democratic 442 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: party thing. And they're they're arguing that it's so impossible 443 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 1: that anyone who has a plan to change anything has 444 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 1: to pre means test it to be compliant with a 445 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,639 Speaker 1: non existent balanced budget amendment to get the right to 446 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:48,679 Speaker 1: support it, Like Liz trust here, shit like this is 447 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: this was written by what if the people on the 448 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,199 Speaker 1: editorial board of Jocobin. Yeah, well that doesn't chock me. 449 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: But it's very funny to look at their citations, which 450 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: are people being like this article is horse shit and 451 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 1: then like like cops publications. Yeah okay, yeah, let's go 452 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,119 Speaker 1: so okay, so so have having actually well okay, so 453 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: before we do, we should we should do another add thing. 454 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: Do you know what? Who else has completely abandoned the 455 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,399 Speaker 1: idea that there's any possibility of social change in the world. 456 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,439 Speaker 1: The Conservative Party and Union Party of Great Britain in 457 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:34,920 Speaker 1: Northern Ireland. Yeah, do they I guess now we're thank 458 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 1: you Richie Suonac and okay, we're back. So so, having 459 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: abandoned politics in favor of complete capitulation to the forces 460 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 1: of reaction, they turned towards a cost benefit analysis of 461 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 1: having more cops. The benefit, they argue, is less cry 462 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 1: And this is bullshit. There is no statistical evidence to 463 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: having more cops produces crime. I have done, Like, there 464 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: are other reasons why this is bullshit I have done. 465 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 1: I have done the entire series about there is a 466 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,920 Speaker 1: lot of writing on this topic and how this correlations, 467 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 1: how this correlation is not actually effective. Um, but yeah, 468 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: and and and it's also like a very important thing 469 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:27,679 Speaker 1: here is this is this is a this is the 470 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,120 Speaker 1: thing that's about what kind of crime you care about? Right, 471 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 1: Like I have written an entire series about why my 472 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: about you know, the times of my police department was 473 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: literally being run by multiple drug gartels at the same 474 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 1: time when they strapped us to fucking radiators and attacking 475 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 1: the balls the car batteries. They shot children to the street, 476 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 1: They disappeared people to be tortured in the fucking black sites, 477 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: and then they went to fucking a rock and teach 478 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 1: the CIA how to do it, Like, like these people 479 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: that the cops are they are rapist, they are kidnappers, 480 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,239 Speaker 1: they are extortionists, they are thieves, they are torturers, they 481 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: are murders. A lot of them are in literal neo 482 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: Nazi gangs who run their own serial killer competitions. Um, 483 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: none of this apply, like appears in any of the 484 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: analysis that these dipshits have compiled. And it's the old 485 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: cultural turn to get involved. Look at the material conditions here, yeah, yeah, 486 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: then the material conditions apparently are cop go up, crime 487 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: go down, Which it's also important, Like I think it's 488 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 1: important to note there's a really good article I think 489 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 1: it was my ampost one called raise the Crime Rate 490 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: from this is from like two thousand six. But they 491 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 1: have that they have this point, which is that like 492 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 1: the reductions in the crime way that we like see, 493 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 1: insofar as they happen, are not actually reductions into the 494 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: amount of crime going on. Like what's happening is that 495 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 1: like we put people in prison and then the crime 496 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: happens to them there, right, Like, even even if you 497 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: reduce the homicide rate outside of prison, there's still the 498 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: homicide rate inside of prison, which nobody fucking it was 499 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: a shit about. And you know, because because again that 500 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 1: this crime doesn't go away, all that happens is that 501 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 1: it gets it, It gets you know, intensified and flicked 502 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: on a group of people the American public doesn't give 503 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 1: a shit about. So, you know, all of the violence, 504 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 1: all of the of the rape, all the fucking murder, 505 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 1: all of the theft, all of the ship we normally 506 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: throw people in prison for, in theory, is just happening 507 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 1: to people inside of prisons. It's just that academics can 508 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: stop pretaining to give a shit about it when they 509 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 1: don't have to see it. Yeah, I like where I live. Right, 510 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: we just re elected a sheriff who was overseen like 511 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: nineteen deaths in jail this year in San Diego. Right, 512 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: that that is not seen as an issue of evidently 513 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: to the people who voted for it, to the Democratic 514 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 1: Party who endorsed her, and instead like they would much 515 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: rather have that because there presumably worried that they person 516 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 1: who ran against her in the primaries would be too 517 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 1: soft own crime and therefore know their teslas might get keyed. Yeah, 518 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: so okay, let's let's look at the supposed benefits. I 519 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: guess those are the benefits. Let's look at let'sok at 520 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: the costs. Finally, finally, consider the cost of policing. On 521 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 1: the one hand, a world of more policing would perhaps 522 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: unsurprisingly be a world of more arrests. Based on recent 523 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 1: work by Chaplin, our best guest is at the first 524 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 1: world balanced would be a world of almost seven point 525 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: eight million arrests. On the other hand, for some for okay, 526 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: this is a direct quote. By the way, I need 527 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 1: everyone to understand I am directly quoting them when I 528 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: say this. On the other hand, for the somewhat speculative 529 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: reasons we gave earlier, we guess that a world of 530 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 1: more policing would be one of less police violence, about 531 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 1: nine fewer people killed by the police. Based on what America. 532 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: That's what that's that's how James Americle occurs more cops 533 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 1: than do less violence. Ye yeah, this you know you 534 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: could if you were, for example, a social scientist, right 535 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: at all, you could look at all of the all 536 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: of the other times the US has gotten more cops 537 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 1: and tried to see if that like increased or decreased 538 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: the amount of violence the police do. And you know 539 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 1: the line, if drown the line. It's all good that 540 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 1: I just I do want your attention to figure one 541 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 1: where they have exactly one data point and then they've 542 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: just drawn a line to it. They dissected a data 543 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 1: point like blind line. Like this whole thing is just 544 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: sort of like like okay, So even if somehow right 545 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 1: by some miracle, this occurred, un less people were killed 546 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 1: by the police. We're killed by police vis because there 547 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 1: was more cops. Which this is the kind of thing 548 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: that for for for the purposes of this thought experiment, right, 549 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: we are allowing people to believe this, like for the 550 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 1: same reason that we allowed children to believe in the 551 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 1: Easter Bunny. So kids don't believe in the Easter Bundy. 552 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 1: I have I have met kids who believe to the 553 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 1: Easter Bunny. I understand believing in Santa, but do people 554 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: actually believe in the Easter Bunny? And not many? Not many? 555 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: But also also also most people don't believe the police 556 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 1: will be more violent if if you have if it 557 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: will be less violent if you have more of them. Yeah, 558 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 1: let's let's let's let's let them believe this. Right. This 559 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: entire argument hinges on the theory that incarceration and arrest 560 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 1: are distinct outcomes of policing. Right, they're arguing that there's 561 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 1: going to be more arrest but that's okay because there 562 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,480 Speaker 1: will be less people in prison. Now, there is one 563 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 1: tidy problem here that you may have seen, which is 564 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 1: that when you arrest people, it leads to people going 565 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 1: to prison. Nowhere in this entire article have these two 566 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: Harvard professors at any point considered the fact that when 567 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 1: you arrest someone, they sometimes go to prison, and that 568 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,479 Speaker 1: arresting more people will mean more people go to prison, 569 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 1: because that's what happens when you arrest someone. They've never 570 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 1: considered this, and in fact, in fact, not only have 571 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 1: they never considered this, they seem to believe that there 572 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: is an inverse correlation between the number of people getting 573 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,359 Speaker 1: arrested and how many people go to prison. They think 574 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 1: that seven million, eight hundred thousand more arrests will somehow 575 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 1: lead to one point two million people less in prison. 576 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:30,400 Speaker 1: It's yeah, itsn't the fuck what people in this country 577 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,239 Speaker 1: die in between arrest and their hearing, right, Like, in 578 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 1: between arrested and having a fair trial, Like yeah, to 579 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:42,719 Speaker 1: ignore that, it's it's not just like, it's not just wrong, 580 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,399 Speaker 1: it's callously cruel. Also, like they appeared to have not 581 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 1: looked at any point at the opportunity cost of having 582 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 1: all these cops. Right, we pay tops a metric ship 583 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,240 Speaker 1: ton of money because they're the only unions that apparently 584 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 1: the state cares about, and like we could do something 585 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 1: useful with that money, right, Like, well, the thing, the 586 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,279 Speaker 1: thing they claim they're doing is that they're going to 587 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: fund less prisons and fund more cops, and this will 588 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 1: leads to less people being in prison. Now, if this 589 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense to you, that's because it doesn't 590 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: make any sense at all. And and and again we 591 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 1: have to come back to the question what do you 592 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,799 Speaker 1: think happens to people who get arrested? Like do these 593 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 1: people think they can send notification to Tahiti? Like I 594 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 1: know none of these people, none of people writing this, 595 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,360 Speaker 1: have been arrested. But like you can't be the stupid, 596 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 1: Like there's no way it's God. So okay, Like we're 597 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 1: I'm gonna close on some stuff here, which I'm gonna 598 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,319 Speaker 1: close on the sort of anarchist stuff that they they're 599 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 1: ranting about. Um, I'm gonna gonna read another quote from this. 600 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:47,200 Speaker 1: Some civil libertarians might prefer radical decarceration without any increase 601 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,640 Speaker 1: or perhaps even some reduction in police force size, on 602 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 1: the grounds that stayed imposed violence or harm is morally 603 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,839 Speaker 1: different from and worse than, interpersonal violence committed by private individuals. 604 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 1: An extreme version of this position would hold that no 605 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 1: amount of interpersonal violence could ever justify the use of 606 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,400 Speaker 1: coercive force by the state, But any state completely lacking 607 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,279 Speaker 1: and coercive power would be unable to enforce tax law 608 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 1: and policy, and thus unable to collect revenue. Without revenue, 609 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,360 Speaker 1: the governor could not provide public goods to a social 610 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,320 Speaker 1: safety net. Which also, by the way, I want to 611 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 1: stop here in like point out that, like they like 612 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:24,719 Speaker 1: in any other context, none of these people believe this 613 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:26,840 Speaker 1: because like these these people are all deo chart lists, 614 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 1: like that, they're all unempty people, and so they don't 615 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,200 Speaker 1: actually believe that money that they they in any other 616 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:34,719 Speaker 1: context except this one, they understand that money is something 617 00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,520 Speaker 1: created by the state, except here when they have to 618 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,440 Speaker 1: justify police Without revenue, governments cannot provide public goods or 619 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:44,880 Speaker 1: a social safety net. So this extreme version of libertarian 620 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:48,440 Speaker 1: civil libertarianition is essentially a kind of political anarchism, and 621 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:50,720 Speaker 1: we doubt many are in fact committed to this brand 622 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 1: of anarchism. So okay, well, let's unpack the second when 623 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,319 Speaker 1: they say civil libertarianisms. Here, what they say is that 624 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: anyone who proposes to defund the lease or reduce a 625 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,400 Speaker 1: number of people in prison. Right in the next paragraph, 626 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,720 Speaker 1: they argue that anyone who wants to do those things 627 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 1: is actually in favor of increasing the homicide rate because 628 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,520 Speaker 1: when there's less when there's less cops than quote, serious 629 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:18,000 Speaker 1: crime runs unchecked in poor neighborhoods, which leaves you with 630 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,360 Speaker 1: two choices. Right, you can be an anarch quote unquote 631 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 1: anarchist and let the crime happen because you supported decreasing 632 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,759 Speaker 1: the number of cops, or you can support having more cops. Yeah, 633 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:31,040 Speaker 1: it's yeah, it's just an absurd extrapolation of a position. Well, 634 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,480 Speaker 1: but it's it's not just that they've they've given. What 635 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:35,960 Speaker 1: they're doing here is they're giving their entire gameaway. Right. 636 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 1: What they've admitted is that their ideal society requires and 637 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 1: this is what they are saying about the state's need 638 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:47,480 Speaker 1: for corrocive power, right with their own arguments, they the 639 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 1: course of power they need is the police. And so 640 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 1: what they're saying is that their politics requires an entire 641 00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,239 Speaker 1: class of rapist, neo Nazi murderers to you know, like 642 00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:58,840 Speaker 1: to enforce their vision of the welfare state. Like, in 643 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:00,640 Speaker 1: order for there to be a of for state, who 644 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:02,160 Speaker 1: have to be a bunch of people who can fucking 645 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,360 Speaker 1: walk into your door and shoot you, Right, there have 646 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 1: to be a group of people who can fucking stand there, 647 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,880 Speaker 1: grab your child, smash your head into a wall fifteen times, 648 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,440 Speaker 1: and then fucking grab you and throw you through a window. Right. 649 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,200 Speaker 1: This is what they are arguing, and and this pays 650 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:18,160 Speaker 1: the question. Okay, so why does people want more cops? 651 00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 1: And you know, the caricature they offer up is that 652 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:22,400 Speaker 1: without cops everyone would just murder each other, and so 653 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,200 Speaker 1: we need neo Nazi desk outs to stop us often 654 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:30,560 Speaker 1: murdering each other. But okay, that's stupid, right, like self 655 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,640 Speaker 1: evidently police police are only like police are not that old. 656 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 1: They've only been around for like two hundred years, so 657 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 1: we know that's not true. So why do they actually 658 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:42,200 Speaker 1: want more cops? And you know, something something that's very interesting, 659 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:44,920 Speaker 1: given that this is an article about the police that 660 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,640 Speaker 1: is written by people who are on the editorial board 661 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:51,920 Speaker 1: of socialist magazines, nowhere in this article doesn't mention the 662 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:55,520 Speaker 1: fact that the cops exist to protect private property. Right. 663 00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:58,040 Speaker 1: This is this is a huge part of what their existence. 664 00:38:58,120 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 1: Right Their job is to ensure if there is one 665 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,160 Speaker 1: class of people who owns the factories in the field 666 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,400 Speaker 1: and the grocery stores and the fast food chains and 667 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 1: the fucking card dealerships, and that there is another class 668 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:09,600 Speaker 1: who was forced to work for them and have their 669 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,000 Speaker 1: labor stolen every day of their lives. And of course 670 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,399 Speaker 1: these sort of like faux pro cop, this pro cop, 671 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,799 Speaker 1: like fo social democrats will never mention it, right, But 672 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,319 Speaker 1: these people's version of quote unquote socialism is one in 673 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 1: which all that ship, all the stuff that makes things, like, 674 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,040 Speaker 1: all of the businesses, all of the corporations, all of 675 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,319 Speaker 1: the all that ship is owned by capitalists and not 676 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:32,920 Speaker 1: the working class. They need those cops specifically to protect 677 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,520 Speaker 1: the property of the ruling class from you, right like 678 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:37,759 Speaker 1: that that that is ultimately what this is about, the 679 00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:41,359 Speaker 1: specter of crime. And and this is true whether it's 680 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,560 Speaker 1: coming from socialists or whether it's coming from the most 681 00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:48,400 Speaker 1: like unbelievably deranged Blue Lives Matter cop freak. It is 682 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 1: about stopping you from taking what is yours? And that 683 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,719 Speaker 1: that's the end of part one. In part two, we're 684 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:58,799 Speaker 1: gonna look at the whole sort of background ideology that's 685 00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:04,359 Speaker 1: running all of this and it also sucks. So yeah, 686 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:15,520 Speaker 1: come back tomorrow for more great news. Love it. It 687 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:17,800 Speaker 1: could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media. 688 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:20,720 Speaker 1: Well more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 689 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:22,880 Speaker 1: cool zone media dot com, or check us out on 690 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,440 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 691 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,279 Speaker 1: listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could 692 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,279 Speaker 1: Happen Here, updated monthly at cool zone media dot com 693 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,240 Speaker 1: slash sources. Thanks for listening.