1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: Fellow ridiculous historians, we are returning to you with a 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: classic episode, This is True Story, one of the one 3 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 1: of the first episodes we did when we had decided 4 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: we were going to do an episode about every state. 5 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:16,600 Speaker 2: It's true and did you know, by sure didn't at 6 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 2: the time that Oregon, the very progressive and crunchy state 7 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:25,159 Speaker 2: of Oregon, think of places like Portland, of course, was 8 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 2: once in fact a completely right leaning white supremacists haven 9 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 2: where people of color were not allowed to own property, 10 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 2: were kept out. And it's something that very weirdly has 11 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:42,879 Speaker 2: affected the legacy of that part of the state in 12 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 2: terms of like the makeup of its population to this 13 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 2: very day. 14 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 3: I can jump in real quick. 15 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:52,599 Speaker 1: What's kind of sad is there's still a. 16 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:53,639 Speaker 3: Lot of this in organ Well. 17 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 4: Absolutely, we talk about that in the fringes, not certainly 18 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 4: in Portland, where it's very liberal and all that, but 19 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 4: there are a lot of little pockets of really bad 20 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 4: in the Anazi activity in Oregon. 21 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: In fact, Oregon is unique in that they never allowed 22 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: slavery as a state, and the reason they didn't allow 23 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: slavery is because they were that racist. This is a 24 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: true story. We couldn't be more happy to welcome you 25 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: to this classic episode featuring the man the myth legend 26 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: are Pal Robert Evans, the creator behind The Bastards. Robert 27 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 1: just an advanced man. Thanks for hanging out with us. 28 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: He's always such a gas back in twenty eighteen. Thank 29 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 1: you to past Robert. You're a good guy and a 30 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: great podcaster and researcher and super excited to have this 31 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:46,400 Speaker 1: one come out as a classic. Let's roll it. Ridiculous 32 00:01:46,440 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome to the show, 33 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen. I'm Ben No. 34 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 3: Wow, this is like a very standard intro. We're trying today. 35 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going. We're going straight forward. But we are 36 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: only able to make this show, of course, with the 37 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 1: assistance of our esteemed third member friends and neighbors, super 38 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: producer Casey Pegram. 39 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,799 Speaker 3: Sort of a vanilla opening. Would you marry Whitebread? 40 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: A little homogeneous? Yes? Yes, today we are. Well, let's 41 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: start in the modern day, Noel, for a long time, 42 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 1: neither of us had ever been to Portland until pretty recently. 43 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 3: It's true I only spent a little bit of time there. 44 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 3: I think you had a little bit more of a 45 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 3: fully fleshed out Portland experience. But will you tell me then, 46 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 3: is the dream of the nineties in fact still alive 47 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 3: in Portland. 48 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: Yes, I thoroughly enjoyed the town. I thought it was surprising. 49 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: I was diplomatic enough not to directly mention the comedy 50 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: show Portlandia to anybody that gets really old. I am 51 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 1: sure it does. It's like when people visit our city 52 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: and call it Hotlanta. 53 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, well I would say this is even more egregious. 54 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 3: Probably people running around say, put a bird on it. 55 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 1: Yes, And Portland has this national reputation, at least for 56 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: being a very progressive city. Right face tattoos are cool, 57 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: marijuana is decriminalized, the. 58 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 3: Streets are paved in marijuana. In fact, in Portland. 59 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: It does have a particular smell, and in general people 60 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: would see it as sort of a bastion of left 61 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: leaning culture. 62 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, super chill. You know, you can buy a sandwich 63 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 3: for a song in Portland. Literally, it doesn't have to 64 00:03:59,040 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 3: be a good song. 65 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: It's just a song. 66 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 3: A song or you know, a little soft shoe, or 67 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 3: maybe you got a one man band. Kind of Dick 68 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 3: Van Dyke situation going on that. 69 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: I did see a one man band when I was there. 70 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: Did you see that, guy? 71 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 3: No, I just pulled that out of my ear. 72 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: Well, you are correct, and there are one man bands 73 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:22,919 Speaker 1: in Portland. There are also numerous amazing things, amazing bits 74 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: of history. One of our coworkers, a guy named Nathan, 75 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:30,799 Speaker 1: is actually from Oregon, and he assured us that Portland 76 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: is more of a cultural exception to the rule nowadays. 77 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, I could see that. I'm actually wearing my Timberline 78 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 3: Lodge hat right now, are But I bought at the 79 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 3: Portland Airport, and, as you might imagine, at the Portland Airport, 80 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 3: not a chain restaurant in sight, my friend, all of 81 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 3: the shops sell handmade artisanal goods. I bought some really 82 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 3: cute little pieces of pottery there for me Mom. 83 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: That's sweet of you, man, And that's really dope hat. 84 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:58,239 Speaker 1: It is a great hat. So it's safe to say 85 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:02,039 Speaker 1: that you and I are fans of Portland and would 86 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 1: travel there again in the future. Sure, at least modern Portland, 87 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:06,559 Speaker 1: right right. 88 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 3: I don't think I would want to travel there in 89 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 3: a time machine to the past. 90 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 1: Yes. Yes, today's episode is about the origins of Oregon 91 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 1: Portland in particular, Wow One Take, or. 92 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 3: As it's called here, I'm in some of these articles 93 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 3: that we're looking at the Oregon Country. 94 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, Oregon Country. That might sound weird to some people. 95 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 1: What is Oregon Country? 96 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 3: They kept seeing it and it was a little weird 97 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 3: sounding and it was confusing, but I figured it out 98 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 3: with my internet sleuth skills. What would now be modern 99 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 3: day Oregon, Washington State, and Idaho was all kind of 100 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 3: clustered together in this one big old chunk of land 101 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 3: collectively referred to as the Oregon Country. 102 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. And this was, let's see, way back in eighteen eighteen, right, 103 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: the US and Britain agreed to jointly occupy this. 104 00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:00,159 Speaker 3: Yeah, that seems like a like an odd couple in 105 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:04,479 Speaker 3: a situation. And then I think the US started getting 106 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 3: a little greedy and being like, you know what, we 107 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 3: kind of want this for our own. We're going to 108 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 3: turn this into some states. 109 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, because the British wanted to be in the area 110 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: in Oregon Country mainly to engage in the fur trade. 111 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 3: That's right. And James K. Polk, who was an expansionist president, right, 112 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:32,919 Speaker 3: really wanted to make this our own and not share, 113 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 3: not go have these with the Brits anymore. So that 114 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 3: ultimately happened. They negotiated, They decided it wasn't worth going 115 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 3: to war over at the britz In anyway, and there 116 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:46,239 Speaker 3: was some back and forth. And there's a really great 117 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 3: slogan that the Northerners used. It was fifty four forty 118 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 3: or fight, And fifty four forty was talking about the 119 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 3: coordinates the latitude that marked the northernmost part of this territory. 120 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 1: And during these negotiations, the US's first proposal was that 121 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: the territory be cut in half, right with that, with 122 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: that border at the forty ninth parallel, and the British 123 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: rejected it. And so the expansionists, many of whom were 124 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: anti slavery Northerners, which is super important for this part 125 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: of the story. Yep, they are the ones who called 126 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: for more American aggression. Get out, there be a big dog. 127 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: Fifty four to forty or fight. 128 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 3: It's hard to say you did really well with that bet, 129 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 3: fifty four forty or fight. 130 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: It's tough. 131 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 3: It's fun when you really get it right, though. It 132 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 3: gives you a sense of accomplishment, as I'm sure they 133 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 3: felt when they finally arrived at a pretty decent deal 134 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 3: with the Brits, where they divided the territory along the 135 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 3: forty ninth parallel. Yeah, so that's pretty close to fifty four. 136 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 3: I guess what's the forty though? A fifty four to forty. 137 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: Like minutes divisions of degrees, it's like a decimal kind 138 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: of right, Yeah, kind of interesting. 139 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 3: So this is where we end up with Oregon needing, 140 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 3: you know, to become a state. And when you become 141 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 3: a state, what do you do. You have to have 142 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 3: a state constitution. 143 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:16,239 Speaker 1: And as we know, constitutions are not generally made overnight. 144 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: They often reflect common practices, goals, or even existing laws 145 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: that a community has practiced or written down beforehand. And 146 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: Oregon had its own pre existing laws. In eighteen forty four, 147 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: they passed something called the Exclusion Law and this was 148 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: this was enacted by the provisional government of the region 149 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 1: at the time. What did the Exclusion Law do? 150 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was this guy named Peter Burnett who was 151 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 3: like a kind of an Oregon Trail kind of blazer. 152 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:56,319 Speaker 3: I guess Peter Hardeman Hardiman Burnett. And actually, spoiler alert, 153 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 3: we're going to dig into him in a little more 154 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 3: detail later in the show. Foreshadowy, big time foreshadowing. But 155 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 3: here's what this dude did, just just to give you 156 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 3: a taste of what his medicine was like. He was 157 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 3: a former slave owner and has a really crazy resume, 158 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:14,959 Speaker 3: did all kinds of interesting things in his life, but 159 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 3: by all accounts an alarming, dastardly racist, virulent racists big time. 160 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 3: So this exclusion law that was enacted sort of pre 161 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 3: proper government and constitution basically allowed slaveholders to hold on 162 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 3: for dear life to those slaves for a maximum of 163 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 3: up to three years. And at first I was like, wait, 164 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,079 Speaker 3: is this because of emancipation? And then I'm no, that 165 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 3: was decades later. This is eighteen forty four. That wasn't 166 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 3: until like eighteen sixties, and I realized, oh no, Oregon 167 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 3: outlawed slavery in the territory. Right, But here's the key, UK, 168 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 3: Then your thing is gonna be like, Oh, that's that's nice. 169 00:09:58,840 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: What a great bunch of people. 170 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, but there's more. So Yeah, this grace period 171 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 3: of three years, but then all of those freed black 172 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 3: people work required to leave. 173 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the thing. The government of Oregon passed this 174 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: exclusion law of eighteen forty four, and in it they 175 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: did place a ban on slavery with a requirement that 176 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: slave owners eventually freed their slaves. But they did this 177 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: with the understanding that any African American who remained in 178 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 1: Oregon after they were freed would be flogged, whiplash and 179 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:38,079 Speaker 1: forcibly expelled from the country. If they were caught in 180 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: the Oregon country again within six months, then the punishment 181 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 1: would be repeated. And then eventually the law was amended 182 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:54,119 Speaker 1: in another version to substitute forced labor, so essentially slavery 183 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: instead of flogging, and then it was repealed in eighteen 184 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:05,439 Speaker 1: forty five. So this community was so racist that the 185 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: didn't even condone slavery. They were so such white supremacists. 186 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 3: They just didn't want him around like at all. And 187 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 3: there's there's some language we'll get into and in a second, 188 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 3: but I do just want to point this out. That 189 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 3: law you mentioned about flogging or that penalty was called 190 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 3: the Burnett lash law because our buddy Burnett was so 191 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 3: into this that he wanted to brand it with his 192 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,839 Speaker 3: own his name. I was like his signature thing. And 193 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 3: it required that or it declared rather that offenders who 194 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 3: refused to leave would be punished with quote not less 195 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 3: than twenty or more than thirty nine stripes, and that 196 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 3: would be a cycle that would recur every six months 197 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:50,319 Speaker 3: until they left. 198 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: Unfortunately, this lash law did get amended and repealed, so 199 00:11:56,080 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 1: as far as we know today, no people were or 200 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: lashed as a result of that law. But this was 201 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: just the first of three different laws like this that 202 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: all were meant to ban people of color from Oregon Country, 203 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: which again at that point is like Washington, Oregon and 204 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 1: part of Idaho. It's a huge swath of land. 205 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 3: That's right, And we're getting some of this information from 206 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 3: a few different places. One of my favorites was a 207 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 3: Washington Post article by Daneen L. Brown called when Portland 208 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 3: banned Black's Oregon's shameful history as an all white state, 209 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 3: or as I've seen it referred to as an all 210 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:39,479 Speaker 3: white utopia. Kind of right, Yes, they were after at least. 211 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 1: There's this weird history of intentional communities and utopian thinking 212 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,679 Speaker 1: in Oregon. So it's not all examples are racist, but 213 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: this definitely was. The idea for the people who were 214 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 1: supporting this concept was that somehow society would be better 215 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 1: if they all felt like if they all somehow identify 216 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,439 Speaker 1: with the same ethnicity. Now, did they have the same 217 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: sort of racism that would be common in the Northeast 218 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: at the time, where in for instance, Italian or Irish 219 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: immigrants or children of those immigrants are still considered not 220 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: wide enough. I don't know, but what was on the 221 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: books was specifically targeting people of color. In eighteen forty eight, 222 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 1: this provisional or territorial government passed the law making it 223 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: illegal for any quote negro or mulatto to live in 224 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 1: Oregon Country. But they did have a provision for people 225 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: who had Native American blood. 226 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 3: Which they weirdly referred to as half breeds because they're 227 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 3: despicable people. They are despicable people. But it's interesting that 228 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 3: all it takes is just to get a little white 229 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 3: in you. They really didn't like black people. Yeah, yeah, 230 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 3: that's what it boils down to, all right then, Yeah, 231 00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:59,559 Speaker 3: so it's state time, baby, here we go. 232 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: What do you need to make a state, as we 233 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:03,599 Speaker 1: established earlier. 234 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, you need you gotta have some dirt. You gotta 235 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 3: have a delineation between your dirt and the other people's dirt. 236 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: You have to have some people, yep, in both sides, 237 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 1: so that you can differentiate a constitution there we go. Yes. 238 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: In eighteen fifty seven, the government of what would become 239 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: Oregon was working on its constitution. They did a couple 240 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: of things. They grossly plagiarized constitutions from other states at 241 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: the time. 242 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 3: Well that's the thing, you know, there's going to be 243 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 3: some of that, right. A constitution is not exactly a 244 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 3: great work of poetry that you know, pilfering from is 245 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 3: looked down upon it. So that's almost sort of like 246 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 3: stealing a boiler plate release form, right, you know. 247 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a very good point. Being that 248 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: Oregon was going to be a state in the US 249 00:14:55,640 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: and have voters and such. They asked about ten thousand 250 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 1: residents to vote on the new state constitution, and they 251 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: had three questions, burning questions, burning questions. One, do you 252 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: vote for the constitution? Overwhelmingly voters supported it. Two, do 253 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: you vote for slavery in Oregon? And the voters of 254 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 1: Oregon rejected the institution of slavery by a pretty wide margin. 255 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, also pretty overwhelmingly. 256 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: And then three, this is a quote again, this is 257 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: problematic language. They say, do you vote for free negroes 258 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: in Oregon? 259 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 3: Hey? 260 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 4: What? 261 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: And the answer was, oh, yeah, it was a no. Yeah, 262 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: it was a big no. And they explicitly baked in 263 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: this racist language into their constitution. In fact, we have 264 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: a quote from the state constitution. 265 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 3: Yes, it goes as such, again quoting some offensive language 266 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 3: here quote no free negro or mulatto not residing in 267 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 3: this state at the time of the adoption of this 268 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 3: constitution shall ever come reside or be within this state, 269 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 3: or hold any real estate, or make any contract, or 270 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 3: maintain any suit therein. And the Legislative Assembly shall provide 271 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 3: by penal laws for the removal by public officers of 272 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 3: all such free negroes and melattos, and for their effectual 273 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 3: exclusion from the state, and for the punishment of persons 274 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 3: who shall bring them into the state or employ or 275 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 3: harbor them Therein right, that is bonkers. 276 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: It is categorical as well. So pay attention, folks to 277 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: that very last line where it says that anyone who 278 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: helps a person of color is also guilty in the 279 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: eyes of Oregon law. And that's a terrifying thing. But 280 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: it passed. People were supportive. Oregon became a state in 281 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: eighteen fifty nine, and it was the only state in history, 282 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: only state, only state in history so far that entered 283 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: as a white's only state, so anti slavery, but only 284 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: because they were such white supremacists, And that's mind boggling. 285 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: People in Portland are so nice. 286 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, it really does blow my mind, and it makes 287 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,439 Speaker 3: me wonder like why, like Mississippi didn't try to do 288 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 3: anything like this, Probably because there were just too many 289 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 3: black people already living there. It was just it would 290 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:26,239 Speaker 3: have been like a massive round up kind of like 291 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 3: deportation kind of situation. 292 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:33,159 Speaker 1: And they were economically dependent that controlling the powers of 293 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: this state were economically dependent on this. 294 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 3: Because it feels like Oregon was probably pretty largely white already, 295 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 3: and then the slaves that were there were kind of 296 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 3: like imported kind of for that purpose. And then they 297 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,199 Speaker 3: free them and they give them the boot, and this 298 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 3: largely worked. There were a couple of examples though, of 299 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 3: folks trying to get around it, not very many though, 300 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:02,640 Speaker 3: and one in particular of somebody being kicked out pretty heinously. 301 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:07,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, Vanderpool, Right, that's right. Yeah, in eighteen fifty one, 302 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:12,159 Speaker 1: before the Constitution was written and before Oregon became a 303 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 1: US state, but after these exclusion laws were in full swing. 304 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: The owner of a saloon, restaurant and boarding home. A 305 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 1: fellow named Jacob Vanderpool was forcibly expelled from the territory, 306 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: not because he did anything wrong, just because he was 307 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: not white. 308 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 3: Yep, yeah, that's pretty oh boy, Okay, he. 309 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: Was literally according to Salem Public Library records, he was 310 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: literally quote reported for the crime of being black in Oregon, 311 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: and Judge Thomas Nelson gave him thirty days to leave 312 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 1: the territory. 313 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. I'm sorry, I keep pausing because this is just 314 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 3: like hurting my brain and my heart. In an article 315 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 3: from How Stuff Works, we spoke to Walita Imrisha, who's 316 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 3: a professor in Black studies at Portland State University, and 317 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:06,640 Speaker 3: she actually travels around Oregon kind of working on nurturing 318 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 3: some positive connections with the African American community in Oregon 319 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:14,679 Speaker 3: because it's still spoiler alert to this day, pretty largely white. 320 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 3: But here's how she sums up the whole thing. Quote, 321 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 3: Oregon was birthed at this intersection of being anti slavery 322 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 3: and anti black. But in no way was Oregon anti 323 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,399 Speaker 3: slavery because they believed in racial justice. They were anti 324 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 3: slavery because they considered this to be white man's land, 325 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 3: and they came to build a racist white utopia. Their 326 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:36,199 Speaker 3: goal was to keep out or push out all people 327 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:36,679 Speaker 3: of color. 328 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: Right, and you will see multiple academics who explain that 329 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: Portland's reputation as a progressive city is, in their opinion, 330 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 1: largely a myth. Winston Grady Willis, who's director of Portland 331 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 1: State University's School of Gender, Race, and Nations, points out 332 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 1: that as of July twenty fifteen, the city had six 333 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 1: hundred and twelve two hundred and six people, seventy seven 334 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 1: point six percent white, five point eight percent black, and 335 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: Grady Willis went on further to call it a key 336 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 1: site for Clan activity. We know the clan was very 337 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: active there in the early nineteen hundreds as well. 338 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean apparently members of the clan were actually cops. 339 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, they were deputized. 340 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, like as though they were sort of 341 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 3: a para military organization given the same powers as like 342 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 3: law enforcement. 343 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:32,360 Speaker 1: Right. 344 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 3: So not a pretty scene. 345 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 1: But there is good news here. This is a story 346 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: of oppression, but it is also a story of inspiration 347 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:50,199 Speaker 1: and righteous struggle for justice and equality. There was this 348 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 1: great documentary called Local Color, which traces the history of 349 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: racism in Oregon and the actions of people who were 350 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 1: working for civil rights in the area. And of course 351 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,400 Speaker 1: you know this center is often on Portland itself, as 352 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: it is the capital city of the state. And to 353 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:14,239 Speaker 1: be honest, folks, there are some pretty disturbing stories in 354 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 1: that documentary, but if you would like to learn more, 355 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 1: we highly recommend you check it out. It is available 356 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: for free online. So thanks again, Public Television. 357 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 3: And so the Fourteenth Amendment happened, and surprise, surprise, Oregon 358 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:33,919 Speaker 3: was one of I think only six states in the 359 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 3: Union that voted against it. And I had forgotten what 360 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 3: the fourteenth Amendment is, but it is really hella important. 361 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,439 Speaker 3: Is what it says. All persons born or naturalized in 362 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 3: the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are 363 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,440 Speaker 3: citizens of the United States and of the state wherein 364 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:55,120 Speaker 3: they reside. No States shall make or enforce any law 365 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 3: which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of 366 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:00,959 Speaker 3: the United States. Nor shall any State to any person 367 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 3: of life, liberty, or property without due process of law, 368 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 3: nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal 369 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:12,160 Speaker 3: protection of law. So this completely neutered these exclusion rules. 370 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 1: Right. So this was passed by Congress in eighteen sixty six, 371 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:21,200 Speaker 1: and the explicit intention there is to safeguard the rights 372 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 1: of recently manumitted or freed people in the South, where 373 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: a lot of the white population is working hard to 374 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: still subjugate them still somehow practice chattel slavery enforced labor. 375 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:41,400 Speaker 1: So Oregon actually, because it was a divisive issue, Oregon 376 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 1: ratified the Fourteenth Amendment by a very narrow margin in 377 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty six, with two legislators protesting that the amendment 378 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: would quote change, if not entirely destroy, the Republican form 379 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:59,160 Speaker 1: of government under which we live and crush American liberty. 380 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:03,360 Speaker 1: They also around the same time past law banning misagenation 381 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:05,400 Speaker 1: or interracial marriages. 382 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 3: Surely, Ben, there's some sort of fun food fact we 383 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 3: can pull out now to lighten the mood a little bit. Wait, 384 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 3: where do we go from here? 385 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 1: Well, we've got one more thing I have to add. 386 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: There's a great paper by Cheryl A. Brooks called Race 387 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: Politics and Denial. Why Oregon forgot to ratify the fourteenth Amendment? 388 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,680 Speaker 1: Because you see, although they ratified it in eighteen sixty six, 389 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 1: in eighteen sixty eight, the legislature rescinded that ratification, and 390 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: they did so on a technicality, so they were still 391 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: in an uncertain situation. In fact, these laws, or some 392 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,439 Speaker 1: version of these exclusion laws stayed on the books until 393 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,160 Speaker 1: what nineteen twenties. 394 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 3: Yeah exactly. I think it was like twenty four or 395 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 3: something like that. 396 00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:00,959 Speaker 1: Wow, it's insane, but we do have, luckily a happy 397 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: ending progress grinds on. 398 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, except sorry. In nineteen twenty two, a guy named 399 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 3: Walter Pierce, who was a clan member, was elected governor 400 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 3: of Oregon. And there's this great quote in this article 401 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 3: from the Washington Post as well. It just kind of 402 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 3: goes back into the history of this talking about how 403 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,199 Speaker 3: many of the Jim Crow laws that you'd see in 404 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:26,679 Speaker 3: the South were kind of encouraged there and like legal. 405 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they still tried to do de facto acts 406 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: of oppression and segregation. And again, I can't recommend that 407 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 1: documentary enough because it contains interview It's only about an 408 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: hour long. You can find it through opb dot org. 409 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:50,199 Speaker 1: It contains interviews with people who survived these circumstances. I 410 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 1: feel like we're almost wrapping up on this, but there 411 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: are a couple more things that we need to mention. 412 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, just the fact that you know, it's come 413 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,919 Speaker 3: a long way, obviously, and Portland still does have that 414 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 3: reputation as being a pretty culturally interesting dream of the 415 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 3: nineties kind of place. But even like in the eighties 416 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:16,439 Speaker 3: and nineties, especially in Portland, it was very dangerous to 417 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:21,199 Speaker 3: be a person of color. This Washington Post article mentions 418 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:25,199 Speaker 3: the fact that it was just a hotbed of skinhead 419 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 3: movement and white supremacy. And I'm not sure if you've 420 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 3: seen the movie Green Room. Yeah, Patrick Stewart plays the 421 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,199 Speaker 3: head of this neo Nazi group that has like a 422 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:40,160 Speaker 3: punk rock house in the woods and just pretty intense 423 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 3: and awful and a really really cool, little slice of 424 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,239 Speaker 3: life kind of I don't know, it's a horror in 425 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 3: that there's a lot of crazy stuff that happens, but 426 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 3: it's really just more like a very contained, claustrophobic movie 427 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 3: where it all kind of takes place in this one 428 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 3: on space. 429 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: I feel like it's a more almost more of a thriller. 430 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so weird to seeing Patrick Stewart play a 431 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 3: psychotic neo ntsis. 432 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: A very restrained, subtle performance from Patrick as well. I 433 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: just call him Patrick, but yeah, but it's true. So 434 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: Oregon in the nineteen eighties and nineteen nineties became a 435 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:18,400 Speaker 1: destination for the largest skinhead movement in the country, according 436 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 1: to several scholars. And you can see, unfortunately no shortage 437 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 1: of stories of racially motivated hate crimes. 438 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, there was that guy recently who was arrested for 439 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 3: I believe, stabbing some people to death on a light 440 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:35,399 Speaker 3: rail train. When he some folks came to the aid 441 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,719 Speaker 3: of an African American woman and a Muslim woman who 442 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,199 Speaker 3: he was shouting racial epithets at and then he like 443 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 3: stabbed several people. And this happened like last year. And 444 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 3: his name is Jeremy Joseph Christian. And yeah, when he 445 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 3: goes to this hearing, he walks into the courtroom and 446 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 3: immediately starts rambling and saying free speech or die Portland. 447 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 3: You call it terrorism, I call it patriotism. 448 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 1: Right, So circumstances of this event were the following he 449 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 1: was shouting religious slurs at several people. He fatally stabbed 450 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:15,639 Speaker 1: two people and wounded one other. This is indefensible. This 451 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 1: is very much not what free speech is. And is 452 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 1: it strange how some of the most ardent supporters of 453 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 1: so called free speech completely don't understand what it is. 454 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it really is. And admittedly this guy does 455 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 3: seem like he's got some mental illness going on. Sure 456 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 3: that's just me speculating, but it's a sad case and 457 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 3: a sad example of how these kind of attitudes are 458 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,919 Speaker 3: around and possibly given a little more fuel on the 459 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 3: fire considering some of the you know, nazi Nazi marches 460 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 3: we're seeing in Charlottesville, and some of these attitudes that 461 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 3: have maybe come a little more into the forefront of 462 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 3: not acceptability, but at least just kind of are being 463 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,640 Speaker 3: a little more mainstream days. So it's interesting to see 464 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 3: where it came from in a place like the Pacific Northwest. 465 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 1: Which might surprise a lot of people. The long story short, 466 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: too late. The exclusion clause that we examined today was 467 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 1: ultimately removed from Oregon's constitution in nineteen twenty seven. However, 468 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: as we I think have pretty clearly established, that did 469 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 1: not remove the actual practices of racial segregation and discrimination. 470 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: But there's one thing, one more thing I think we 471 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: should add. Because we've been talking about the states, right, 472 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: we've been talking about the territory We've been talking about 473 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 1: the people, but we have yet to talk in detail 474 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: about the guy who was at the forefront of it all. 475 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: We have yet to talk in detail about Peter Hardiman Burnett, 476 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 1: who some would call a real bastard. 477 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, and he also managed to make it all the 478 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 3: way down the Oregon Trail and not even get dyssentry 479 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 3: right or die of exposure. Yeah, he was just a dick. 480 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: Well, how about this, This is a surprise that we 481 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 1: nol in casing I worked on for you all off air. 482 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 1: What if we have a little extra credit? 483 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 3: That's right, folks, extra credit the segment where and we get, 484 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 3: you know, some human person that's tangentially familiar with the 485 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 3: topic by varying degrees. My favorite of late has been 486 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 3: the Colonel Gladwyn Bowlin. Oh boy man, he really set 487 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 3: the Internet on fire with that segment. Gladwin. 488 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: I led him into the Facebook group folks. So I 489 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 1: hope we're all still cool. 490 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 3: Did you create a monster? 491 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. 492 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 3: Well, today we have another quite informed gentleman joining us 493 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 3: the host the new House Stuff Work show Behind the Bastards, 494 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 3: which does deep dives into horrible people throughout history from 495 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 3: Saddam Hussein's hobby writing erotic fiction to Hitler's spanking fetish. 496 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 3: I believe Friends and Neighbors, Ben if I may, Robert Evans, Hey, all, 497 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 3: how's it cracking, man, It's weird. It's just weird. There's 498 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 3: been a lot of like silent headshaking on this episode, 499 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 3: which doesn't really translate super well on the podcast. But yeah, 500 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 3: who knew. 501 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean we're talking about Oregon, which is if 502 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 5: you like, yeah, if you go to like Portland or whatever, 503 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 5: it seems on the up and out. I've spent a 504 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 5: lot of the last three years in like rural southern Oregon, 505 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 5: and it's it's a pretty racist place. Like Josephine County 506 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 5: where I was, is chock full of Nazis. There are 507 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 5: quite a lot of them out there, so it's it's 508 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 5: a fascinating place even in the modern day. Oh yeah, yeah, 509 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 5: tons of them. It's one of the most racist counties 510 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 5: and one of the highest density of hate groups anywhere 511 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 5: in the United States. 512 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 3: Chock full of Nazis. As it turns out, not a 513 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 3: good coffee. 514 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 5: No, no, terrible coffee, terrible craft beer that the Nazis make. 515 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:15,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, So when we when we originally talked off air, Robert. 516 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: One of the things that we were very interested in, 517 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: both as colleagues but also as fans of your show 518 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 1: was seeing whether there was a specific person associated with 519 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: the the supremacist origins. 520 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 3: Of Oregon kind of setting the tone that we. 521 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 1: Could we could learn a little bit more about with you. 522 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 1: And you found the guy, right, Oh. 523 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 5: My god, I sure did. I think Peter Burnett. I 524 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 5: think Peter was his first name. Yeah, just a tremendous 525 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 5: piece of crap and maybe, like there's a long list 526 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 5: of super racist politicians in American history, but he's in 527 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 5: the running for most racist. He's he's he's definitely like 528 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 5: in conversation for sure. 529 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. 530 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 3: We set him up briefly as just having been the 531 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:06,960 Speaker 3: one that kind of came up with the idea of 532 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 3: these exclusionary laws early on before Oregon became a state, 533 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 3: and he loved this idea so much they named it 534 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 3: after himself, the Burnett Lash Law, which permitted black people 535 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 3: who refused to leave the state to be given lashes 536 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 3: like every six months, six months or something like that, 537 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 3: and he loved it so much that it was such 538 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 3: a genius idea. The Burnett Lash law. 539 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 5: Yeah, he was so proud of his whipping people rule 540 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 5: that he stuck his name on it, which is a 541 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 5: special kind of terrible. But he was actually like a 542 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 5: violent jerk way before he went to Oregon. When he 543 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 5: was still living in Clear Creek, Tennessee, he was a 544 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 5: shop owner, like a general store owner. He suspected this 545 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 5: enslaved black man was every now and then breaking into 546 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 5: his store at night to drink from his whiskey barrel, 547 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 5: because they stored whiskey and barrels back then. It was 548 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 5: a different time. So he, rather than like taking any 549 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 5: of the other actions you might take in this situation, 550 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 5: he sets a trap using a rifle with like a 551 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 5: string tied to the trigger, tied to the window shutter, 552 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 5: so that when the guy crawled in in the middle 553 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 5: of the night, this rifle shot him dead. And he 554 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 5: wasn't charged with the crime because it was an enslaved man, 555 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 5: And he said he was sorry. But that's like Peter 556 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 5: Burnett before he gets into politics. They must have had 557 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 5: like a standiard ground law back in. 558 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 3: Those days too. I guess I just don't think they 559 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 3: had laws. 560 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, you're talking about the eighteen twenties or whatever, 561 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 5: like there was no rules and. 562 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 1: That's such a cartoonish sort of Rupe Goldberg esque kind 563 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 1: of contraption. 564 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, he probably got the kit from ACME. That's insane. Okay, 565 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 3: go on give us some more. 566 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. 567 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 5: So one of his early jobs before he gets off 568 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 5: to Oregon, I think after he murders this guy with 569 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,719 Speaker 5: a Looney Tunes trap, is he's a lawyer. And some 570 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 5: of his probably the most prominent clients were Joseph Smith, 571 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,960 Speaker 5: founder of the Mormon religion, and all of Joseph Smith's 572 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 5: you know, apostles or whatever, all of his friends because 573 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,560 Speaker 5: they were on trial for kind of sort of fomenting 574 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 5: a frontier war that had broken out in and around Misserra. 575 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 5: And so he he is these guys lawyer, and his 576 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 5: main achievement as a lawyer seems to be getting the 577 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,440 Speaker 5: venue changed that the court case was being held in. 578 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 5: And this venue change allowed Joseph Smith and all of 579 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:19,759 Speaker 5: his guys to escape and run away. And yeah, so 580 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,799 Speaker 5: that's his career as a lawyer before he gets on 581 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,239 Speaker 5: that first big wagon train to Oregon for the Great 582 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:26,280 Speaker 5: Migration and whatnot. 583 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,720 Speaker 3: Oh wow, yeah, so y'all already covered. 584 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 5: Yeah, he made the last law he made, the exclusion law, 585 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,840 Speaker 5: which he was he was an abolitionist, but he's like 586 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 5: an interesting we think when you hear about abolitionists in 587 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 5: the pre Civil War area, you usually think about just 588 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 5: the few people who would have been like on the 589 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,239 Speaker 5: right side of history. But some of them were just 590 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 5: abolitionists because they were that racist. They were so racist. 591 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 5: And that was Peter Burnett. He was abolitionist that because 592 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 5: he didn't like the idea of there being black people 593 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 5: anywhere in his state, and he thought that slave labor 594 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 5: was bad for white people. So he was like, he 595 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 5: wound up the right conclusion, which is that slavery was 596 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,799 Speaker 5: a bad thing, but he wound up there through like 597 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,279 Speaker 5: the most racist chain of logic that he could have 598 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 5: possibly gotten to, which is always interesting to me. 599 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 3: That was a sentiment that was big time shared by 600 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,320 Speaker 3: the majority of people in Oregon because they did incorporate 601 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 3: and become a state. The majority of people voted against slavery, 602 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 3: but also for ousting all the freed black people. 603 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:27,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, and I did find when I was doing my 604 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 5: research that in eighteen forty at least Burnett had two 605 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 5: of the slaves of his own. And this is back 606 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 5: when he was living in Missouri, and there's some evidence 607 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 5: that when he immigrated to Oregon, he tried to bring 608 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,440 Speaker 5: one slave with him, a young girl who drowned in 609 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:46,719 Speaker 5: the Columbia River during the voyage. So not a lot 610 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:48,719 Speaker 5: of It's kind of an enticing piece of what was 611 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 5: going on there, but that's all the info I found 612 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:53,240 Speaker 5: so far on that, right. 613 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 1: Because she was projected to be somewhere between ten to 614 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:57,880 Speaker 1: twenty four or something. 615 00:35:58,160 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 3: Mm hmm. 616 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 5: Yeah, it seems like it be kind of a creepy 617 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 5: Thomas Jefferson sort of situation there. 618 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:03,359 Speaker 3: Yeah. 619 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:04,760 Speaker 1: I suspected that as well. 620 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,680 Speaker 5: Yeah, So this guy we've talked about, like or y'all 621 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,040 Speaker 5: talked about what he did in Oregon. But after he 622 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 5: got done in Oregon, this dude moved to California and 623 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:18,439 Speaker 5: he became in eighteen forty nine the first governor of California, 624 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,240 Speaker 5: of the state of California. So California's very first leader 625 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:26,319 Speaker 5: as a state in the Union was this guy, Peter Burnett, 626 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,440 Speaker 5: who get a lot of terrible things. Maybe my favorite 627 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 5: thing he did that isn't terrible was in eighteen fifty 628 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,840 Speaker 5: he changed Thanksgiving that year from a Thursday to a Saturday, 629 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 5: just because it was better for him personally that year 630 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 5: to do it a different day. 631 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 3: I mean, I can get behind that. It's always weird 632 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 3: to me that Thanksgivings on a Thursday. 633 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's whimsical and fun. But he also tried to 634 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 5: bring racial exclusion to California with the Chinese right well, 635 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 5: first with black people. He first tried to in his 636 00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:03,000 Speaker 5: first message to the California legislature exclusion like the first important, 637 00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,240 Speaker 5: like an issue of the first importance, the most important 638 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,279 Speaker 5: thing that California could do, because he thought black people 639 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:10,400 Speaker 5: are going to take jobs from white people and that 640 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:14,320 Speaker 5: they would be unhappy in California and cause disruption because 641 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,960 Speaker 5: they would be second class citizens, because he wasn't going 642 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,239 Speaker 5: to let him be anything but second class citizens. So yeah, 643 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 5: he tried to. There were like a thousand black people 644 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,359 Speaker 5: already in California, many of them free, and he tried 645 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 5: to have them all kicked out and to stop any 646 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 5: more from settling. And that was too racist for eighteen 647 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,080 Speaker 5: fifties California. So he lost on that, and he wound 648 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:39,360 Speaker 5: up actually like in eighteen fifty one, quitting being the 649 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,360 Speaker 5: governor over this because he tried a couple of times 650 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,719 Speaker 5: to get California to ban black people, and they just 651 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 5: wouldn't do it. And yeah, I mean there's some pretty 652 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,880 Speaker 5: pretty racist quotes from him that I could read, but 653 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:54,240 Speaker 5: that's probably not necessary. But it is fun to note 654 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,239 Speaker 5: that after he was no longer a governor and after 655 00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:01,040 Speaker 5: his political career was over, as you know, the world 656 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,439 Speaker 5: continued to advance and modernize in his old age. Yeah, 657 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,719 Speaker 5: his crusade, as you mentioned, was trying to stop the 658 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:10,200 Speaker 5: Chinese from coming to California. So he was just just 659 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:14,640 Speaker 5: comprehensively racist across the board every chance he got, which 660 00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:16,719 Speaker 5: is impressive in a terrible way. 661 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:21,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, at least you can say he was consistent. But honestly, 662 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 1: good on you, California. For anyone listening who is in 663 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,400 Speaker 1: the state right now, I think that speaks very highly 664 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,319 Speaker 1: to the character of the state. Even as far back 665 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 1: as the eighteen fifties. He also published an autobiography, right 666 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:38,399 Speaker 1: at some. 667 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 5: Point, Yeah, that's where he started ranting about Chinese immigration. 668 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, but Robert, surely he got some sort of amazing 669 00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,760 Speaker 3: come upance, right, like burned to death and a fire, 670 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,719 Speaker 3: you know, drowned under suspicious circumstances. 671 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,279 Speaker 1: Give me something in a fight with a locomotive. 672 00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,240 Speaker 5: No, I mean I think he died rich and old. 673 00:38:58,239 --> 00:38:59,399 Speaker 5: He was in his eighties or something. 674 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:00,720 Speaker 3: Oh man, that's a bummer. 675 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:00,920 Speaker 1: I know. 676 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,239 Speaker 3: It's just that's what always happens with these bastards, right, 677 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,280 Speaker 3: I mean, I bet you're seeing that a lot. Accept 678 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:07,040 Speaker 3: you did the Cosby episode. He kind of got his 679 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,000 Speaker 3: come up as But even that's sort of like a 680 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,799 Speaker 3: pyrrhic victory where it's like too little, too late for 681 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,799 Speaker 3: a guy that's been screwing people over for years on, 682 00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 3: you know, unchecked. 683 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:21,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, every now and then you get a Mussolini or 684 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,280 Speaker 5: a Kadafi where they get dragged down into the street 685 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,359 Speaker 5: and punished by the people that they spent decades screwing with. 686 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 5: But that's almost that almost never happens. Usually they die 687 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,240 Speaker 5: rich in a villa somewhere. 688 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,719 Speaker 1: I'm really glad that you said this, Robert, because I 689 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:41,600 Speaker 1: was listening to the Goadaffi episode, which I thought was fantastic. Uh, 690 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:46,759 Speaker 1: And I'm still preparing myself to check out the Weinstein episode, 691 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:48,240 Speaker 1: which is a two parter. Correct. 692 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that one's a big one. 693 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,640 Speaker 1: What we'd like to do is, again, thank you for 694 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:57,600 Speaker 1: giving us some more insight on the life of Peter 695 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 1: Hardiman Burnett. Screw that, Yeah, I know, right, the mate. 696 00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:05,879 Speaker 1: But well, yeah, we were wondering if you could tell 697 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,920 Speaker 1: our h if you could tell our fellow listeners here 698 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,719 Speaker 1: a little bit more about behind the Bastards and what 699 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:13,879 Speaker 1: they can expect when they tune into your show. 700 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,280 Speaker 5: Well, I mean, our goal is to tell you everything 701 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:18,480 Speaker 5: you don't know about the very worst people in all 702 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,960 Speaker 5: of history. So you know, you've probably sat you know, 703 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,600 Speaker 5: stoned or whatever in your underpants and watched a lot 704 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,360 Speaker 5: of documentaries about Hitler on the History Channel over the years, 705 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:29,640 Speaker 5: but you probably don't know that he based a lot 706 00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:33,480 Speaker 5: of his military strategies and his like attitudes on existence 707 00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:35,799 Speaker 5: in life on a series of young adult novels that 708 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:38,480 Speaker 5: were basically like the German equivalent of Harry Potter back 709 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:39,520 Speaker 5: in the eighteen hundreds. 710 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,799 Speaker 3: Oh wow, you know. And for that matter, while we're 711 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:42,960 Speaker 3: on the. 712 00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:47,120 Speaker 5: Subject of novelists, You've probably haven't read Saddam Hussein's romance novels, 713 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 5: but I have. And that's one of the things we 714 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:50,200 Speaker 5: get into in this podcast. 715 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:52,560 Speaker 3: I referred to it as erotic fiction. Was that was 716 00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:53,680 Speaker 3: that a bridge too far? 717 00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:56,400 Speaker 5: No, no, it is very erotic. In fact, there's a 718 00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,399 Speaker 5: long passage where an elderly woman yells at children about 719 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:00,600 Speaker 5: how sexy ma is olds are. 720 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:02,479 Speaker 3: So that's it's fun. Yeah. 721 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:09,720 Speaker 1: Aren't those novels in particular largely considered these meglomaniacal analogies 722 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:11,840 Speaker 1: about his relationship with the country. 723 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,959 Speaker 5: Yes, and they're there. It's one of those weird things. 724 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:17,799 Speaker 5: There's a lot of cases, like with the Kims in 725 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,880 Speaker 5: North Korea, of art being credited to dictators who didn't 726 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:25,040 Speaker 5: actually make it. Saddam definitely wrote these books, and we 727 00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,200 Speaker 5: get into that to an extent, but they're like they're 728 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:32,560 Speaker 5: a mix of rants about modern politics and like utopian fiction, 729 00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:35,920 Speaker 5: and so it's like a mix of Saddam screaming at 730 00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:38,160 Speaker 5: the people he hates and trying to set up the 731 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,840 Speaker 5: ideal government that he never quite got to make in Iraq. 732 00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,640 Speaker 5: It's it's a really strange insight into what was going 733 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 5: on in the man's head. 734 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,239 Speaker 1: That's fascinating. I want to I want to tune in 735 00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,000 Speaker 1: and no spoilers, but could you tell us a little 736 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:52,120 Speaker 1: bit about some episodes that are coming up soon? 737 00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:52,759 Speaker 3: Yeah? 738 00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:57,960 Speaker 5: Today, right now, there is a new episode on Paul Mannifort, 739 00:41:58,000 --> 00:41:59,759 Speaker 5: part one of which just dropped in part two of 740 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,120 Speaker 5: which will be up Thursday, So that's a big one. 741 00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:02,919 Speaker 3: I check that out. 742 00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:07,560 Speaker 5: And we've been doing an ongoing series about King Leopold 743 00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,680 Speaker 5: of Belgium and the Congo and we're recording an episode 744 00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,400 Speaker 5: today about what happened after Leopold, who is one of 745 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:15,600 Speaker 5: the worst people in all of history and doesn't get 746 00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:20,319 Speaker 5: enough acknowledgment for just how terrible he was. Agreed, And 747 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,600 Speaker 5: we're also recording an episode about the serial killer Albert 748 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:27,319 Speaker 5: Fish with his one of his descendants who is all 749 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:28,640 Speaker 5: comedian in LA today. 750 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:29,560 Speaker 3: So that's going to be fun. 751 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:31,799 Speaker 1: Oh man, that's fascinating. 752 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:33,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, we've got a good, good slate. 753 00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:37,440 Speaker 1: Well, we are going to wrap it up today. We 754 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:39,400 Speaker 1: want to thank you so much for coming on the show. 755 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:43,279 Speaker 1: Robert Evans, friends and neighbors, the mastermind behind one of 756 00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:47,319 Speaker 1: How Stuff Works newest podcasts, Behind the Bastards. If you 757 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:51,520 Speaker 1: like our show, you will love this one. In the meantime, 758 00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:55,680 Speaker 1: you can find Noel Casey and I Robert as well 759 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,160 Speaker 1: on social media. In twenty eighteen, right, it's everywhere. 760 00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,640 Speaker 3: Were all over the place with Facebook and Instagram. We're 761 00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:03,560 Speaker 3: still working on the pinterest page. We haven't fun, we 762 00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:06,359 Speaker 3: haven't committed yet, but we'll get there. Creative differences, Yeah, 763 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,160 Speaker 3: that's true. And you can join our Facebook community at 764 00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:11,440 Speaker 3: Ridiculous Historians, where there's all kinds of memory and fun 765 00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:13,440 Speaker 3: chats going on all the time. Or if you don't 766 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:14,720 Speaker 3: want to do any of that, right, it's an email 767 00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,560 Speaker 3: at ridiculous at HowStuffWorks dot com and we'll see you soon. 768 00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:30,360 Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 769 00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:32,560 Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.