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Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to season two ninety six,

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Speaker 1: episode one of Derdly's Guysay production of My Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: This is a podcast where we take a deep dive

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Speaker 1: into america shared consciousness. And it is Tuesday, July eighteenth,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, very oh yeah, some great. It's it's Nelson

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Speaker 2: Mandela International Day, the National Sour Candy Day, World Listening Day,

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Speaker 2: because you're doing that right now, National Tropical Fruit Day,

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Speaker 2: and actually good topic or at least related to the

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Speaker 2: top of we're talking about today, or at least tangentially.

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Speaker 2: It's National caviard Day as well, so just imagine.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry, I just have to act like I didn't

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Speaker 1: know most celebrating to seem like a man of the people.

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Speaker 2: I had no dripping down your face.

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Speaker 1: So much caveat off. Have the seven layered dip that's

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Speaker 1: just seven different types of caviare, dude.

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Speaker 2: But the good stuff in the bottom there, it's all

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Speaker 2: premit precires.

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Speaker 1: To top claimed flesh. Huh. Well, my name is Jack

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Speaker 1: O'Brien aka Barbenheimer, Girl, Destroyer of your WORDLDS melt like plastic,

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Speaker 1: it's fantastic, louse your golden hair destruction everywhere. Radiation life

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Speaker 1: ends by your creation. Barbenheimer, Lake of Fire. Oh oh yeah, Barbenheimer,

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Speaker 1: Lake of Fire. Oh yeah uh. That is courtesy of

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Speaker 1: Discorduroy on the Discord. M hmm, thank you, Michael, Barbara,

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Speaker 1: and I'm thrilled to be joined as always by my

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Speaker 1: co host, mister Miles.

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Speaker 2: Gram Miles Gray.

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Speaker 3: Akay, in the gravy, you can up your podcast ease

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Speaker 3: in the gravy. You can host mad bousies in the gravy.

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Speaker 3: You can smoke mad please in the gravy.

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Speaker 2: Okay, shout out to me, because I still have Village

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Speaker 2: people on the brain. Yeah. And you know what's wild,

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Speaker 2: I didn't mention the when we're talking about it, Like

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Speaker 2: half of their songs are like derivations of the hits.

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Speaker 2: So like these other songs I'd never heard of had

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Speaker 2: like almost sad like nearly the same structure and like

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Speaker 2: key changes or like three choruses were in your mind.

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Speaker 2: You're like, wait, hold on, this is my show man,

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Speaker 2: and you're like, oh, no, it's not. They're saying something

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Speaker 2: completely different. Anyway, shout out them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I got to give a shout out to Zeke

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Speaker 1: Gangage's listener smooth Lou, I believe is the name smooth

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Speaker 1: Lou who solved the mystery? Did you see this on Twitter?

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Speaker 4: Wait?

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Speaker 2: What was it?

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Speaker 1: Grand Puba? It's a Grand Puba track from nineteen ninety five,

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Speaker 1: I guess.

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Speaker 2: And did you go back and you checked it out?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's definitely that's the song.

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Speaker 2: Oh wait, wasn't it It's just a track called two thousand?

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why it took us so long. I

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Speaker 1: guess it like didn't didn't really hit that much?

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Speaker 2: Wow?

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Speaker 1: Wow wow, Yeah, check out that song. It's okay, kind

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Speaker 1: of it's kind of good. I wow, stand to buy

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Speaker 1: my reference two thousand?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I still love it. Okay, the energy is still there. Wow,

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Speaker 2: shout out hiking. Honestly, you guys, fucking between all of y'all,

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Speaker 2: we don't need Google, and we could have googled it,

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Speaker 2: but it was hard to just google two thousand song

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Speaker 2: lyric really.

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Speaker 1: So Smooth Lou great, great Twitter handle, even better at

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Speaker 1: saving my ass from making it seem like I was

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Speaker 1: referencing a Billy Joel's song.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Smooth Lou, we owe you a hamburger.

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Speaker 1: Yes, smooth Lou came through with that, said I got

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Speaker 1: you fan, thanks for all you do. And then somebody

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Speaker 1: else came through and vouch for smooth Lou. Was like,

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Speaker 1: pretty cool, dude. I miss you, smooth Lous like forever

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Speaker 1: so much. Love to Smooth Lou. Wow, this one goes

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Speaker 1: out to you. All right, Miles, it's a special episode.

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Speaker 1: We're talking labor.

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Speaker 2: I'm talking. I'm still blown away that smoothly put. I mean,

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Speaker 2: did you hear it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I started playing a little a second ago and I'm

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Speaker 2: like this speaks Wow.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, big poopa head over here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, damn all right, anyway, sorry, anyway, back to you

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Speaker 2: Jack and back to you Miles. Yep, no, back to you,

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Speaker 2: to you fam.

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Speaker 1: This episode we are no and I'm still gonna go

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Speaker 1: back to you, pal. We're talking the writer strike, the

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Speaker 1: actor strike, ultimately the labor movement in general. And researching

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Speaker 1: this and reading about unions and hearing people talk about

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Speaker 1: the history of Hollywood. I guess a thing that I

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Speaker 1: knew but hadn't really thought that much about is that

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Speaker 1: Hollywood is like one of the most consistently unionized industries

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Speaker 1: left in this country.

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Speaker 2: Like yeah, then with that kind of visibility, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: When I think union's like I think, you know, guys

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Speaker 1: on Dog like Jimmy Hoffa, you know.

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Speaker 2: In the National Brotherhood of Electrical Workers.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. You don't think about Hollywood. You don't think

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Speaker 1: about the glitz and glamb. But I also spend a

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Speaker 1: lot of time just thinking about I don't know, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm a movie guy. I think the movies are just

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Speaker 1: all right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like it gave us Star Wars, it gave us Jaws,

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Speaker 2: it gave us some other movies probably, But I.

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Speaker 1: Just when you look at the the history of the industry,

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Speaker 1: like across the one hundred years that it has been unionized,

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Speaker 1: like it's it's a pretty it's hit some pretty high highs,

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Speaker 1: like an entertainment industry.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: For some reason, I kept thinking about this time I

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Speaker 1: went over to Ireland, like in the early two thousands.

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Speaker 1: I know, and I know I always talk about it.

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Speaker 1: I always talk about the cuisine, brag about the cuisine.

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Speaker 1: But everybody. First of all, the only thing on TV

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Speaker 1: was The Simpsons, which, thank you, that was wonderful. I

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Speaker 1: will take that. And also the Rachel like I'd say

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Speaker 1: forty percent of the girls were rocking the Rachel from Friends,

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Speaker 1: Like just the the level of like Hollywood's influence is

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Speaker 1: you know, can't be overstated, especially like what's that.

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Speaker 2: No I said? I mean, it's I mean. And also

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Speaker 2: you kind of date everyone had the Rachel back then. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: how old are you then?

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Speaker 1: I was twenty like I was twenty one, I was

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Speaker 1: like seven years old.

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Speaker 2: Oh but I guess so too, Like Europe also had

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Speaker 2: that delay of like American trends hitting about like four

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Speaker 2: years later.

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Speaker 1: For sure, exactly, but just I don't know, Like we

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Speaker 1: talked a lot of shit about movies and TV, but

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Speaker 1: like across just viewing the body of work across like

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Speaker 1: it has created a great deal of iconic lasting art

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Speaker 1: that like breaks through to the mainstream. And I think,

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Speaker 1: I think you can draw like you would never hear

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Speaker 1: these two things connected. But just in thinking about the history,

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Speaker 1: like it it really is, we have that history because

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Speaker 1: of unions, and we're going to talk about that a

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Speaker 1: little bit. And like just the fact that the creative people,

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Speaker 1: the artists who drive the actual original creative ideas that

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Speaker 1: like get turned into movies that like define generations, you know,

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Speaker 1: like those people are protected by a union and when

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Speaker 1: they're not, like you see, what we'll talk about what

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Speaker 1: studios want to do with them what these streaming companies

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Speaker 1: are trying to do with them. So it's a it's

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Speaker 1: an interesting conversation that I think kind of stretches the

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Speaker 1: brain in a lot of different directions. And also you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's an important moment.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah. And I mean I think, and we talked

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Speaker 2: about this off mic before of like, you know, when

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Speaker 2: else have you seen in like union members with the

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Speaker 2: kind of visibility that the WGA or SAG does, right,

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Speaker 2: you know, And I think there's a lot of attention

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Speaker 2: on this obviously because of like the nature of the

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Speaker 2: work that people do, but I think there's there's something

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Speaker 2: that I'd imagine a lot of other industries are looking

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Speaker 2: at to see how this has resolved, whether like they

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Speaker 2: you know, they go the cynical route like we've heard

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Speaker 2: in like leaked quotes where they're like, yeah, wait till

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Speaker 2: they start getting evicted and then they'll start you know,

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Speaker 2: like we'll use the loss of housing as a negotiating tactic. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: we'll see how cynical it goes, or if you know,

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Speaker 2: I think I have a feeling that after these studios

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Speaker 2: see just how devoid of talent and energy some of

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Speaker 2: their like marketing things have been without the people that

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Speaker 2: you know, make the shit come to life. Yea that

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Speaker 2: they may, they may come around, but hey, we shall see.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's where we have a great.

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Speaker 1: I think we're also going to end up talking about

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Speaker 1: we haven't had the conversation yet, We're about to have it.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I think we'll end up talking about AI

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Speaker 1: because I think it's also revealing about just where their

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Speaker 1: priorities are on the studio side, that that that the

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Speaker 1: AI side is so important. Like yeah, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if they're fooled by the chat GPT or if they

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Speaker 1: think that the chat GPT is going to be good

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Speaker 1: enough to fool audiences, but I.

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Speaker 2: Think they think it's like if they can just get

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Speaker 2: that domino to fall, then all their problems are solved.

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Speaker 2: They can reap all the benefits. But it like sounds

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Speaker 2: like someone who's like trying to get like an English

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Speaker 2: Lit PhD or something. He's like, we should be allowed

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Speaker 2: to use spark notes in the exams, and whenever we'd

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Speaker 2: like I'm being serious and they're like, no, I think

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Speaker 2: you found a shortcut that's you need.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well we are thrilled to be joined by

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Speaker 1: someone with a seat at the table during the liberations.

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Speaker 1: Adam Conover. So we'll be right back with Adam. We'll

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Speaker 1: be right back, and we're back, and we are thrilled

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Speaker 1: to be joined in our third sea by a very

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Speaker 1: friend of comedian, writer, executive producer, TV host and labor

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Speaker 1: organizer who you know from Adam Ruins everything his podcast

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Speaker 1: factually and being out in these streets picketing, acting as

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Speaker 1: member of the negotiating committee, serving on the WGA West

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Speaker 1: Board of Directors. It's Adam Connor and it's love to

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Speaker 1: be here.

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Speaker 4: Was that was all my credits? I have a lot

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Speaker 4: of titles now having those things I'm not doing now

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Speaker 4: because I'm on strike. I'm not a TV host right now.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I mean that things nascent.

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Speaker 4: When it's all over, I'll be back on your screens,

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Speaker 4: you know.

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Speaker 1: There you go, yes, yes, yes, Well thanks for joining us.

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine this is a busy time for you

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Speaker 1: at all.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I was just sounds like I got nothing going on.

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Speaker 4: I was just out on the street, you know, for

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Speaker 4: for three four hours ninety degree heat with a sign,

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Speaker 4: talking to people. It's a blast, man, it's I'm having

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Speaker 4: so much fun out there. The solidarity feels so good.

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Speaker 4: It's just it's great.

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Speaker 2: I love it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean people are making sacrifices, you know, but

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Speaker 4: there's our political directors, wonderful woman Rachel Torres. She's brilliant.

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Speaker 4: She told me, uh, you know, if you're smiling while

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Speaker 4: you're sacrificing, if you're having a good time while you're

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Speaker 4: making the sacrifice, then they can't beat you. And I

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Speaker 4: think that that is really true.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, big cheerleader smiles out there on the Yeah, people,

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Speaker 1: it's it's a party.

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Speaker 4: A guy brought a sound system to Netflix, and now

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Speaker 4: he's playing like sort of mid tempo like dance music.

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Speaker 4: You know. It feels like kind of that kind of

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Speaker 4: that outdoor day club like pool club kind of people

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Speaker 4: almost feel like they should be having frozen cocktails walking

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Speaker 4: around like it's just the vibes are good. And then

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Speaker 4: he's like remixed like people giving speeches like fran Dresser's speech.

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Speaker 4: Someone told me he like remixed one of my tiktoks

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Speaker 4: into a song of like, you know, so you want

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Speaker 4: to pick a line, line, line, line line, Yeah, and.

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Speaker 1: You sent him a takedown notice immediately, I'm yeah, better

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Speaker 1: who signed off? But yeah, I mean we were talking

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Speaker 1: with this feels like a huge moment for labor. These

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Speaker 1: are you know, with the w g A some of

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Speaker 1: the most influential, like union eye as union protected workers

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Speaker 1: on the planet. But with with actors, with the Screen

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Speaker 1: Actors Guild, you know, the.

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Speaker 4: Faces, the beauty, beauty and brains coming together, you know.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I don't know, just kind of thinking about this,

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Speaker 1: think about the history of labor and unions in Hollywood.

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Speaker 1: It feels like Hollywood to this point. The fact that

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Speaker 1: unions have been a presence in Hollywood for as long

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Speaker 1: as they have. It's a great learning moment for why

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Speaker 1: capitalism doesn't work without unions.

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Speaker 4: Basically, yeah, well it's an open question whether capitalism works

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Speaker 4: at all, you know.

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Speaker 2: And I think you're arguing, yeah, like unions are the

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Speaker 2: thing that keep people from being like, oh, Marx was

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Speaker 2: definitely right, just right, right.

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Speaker 4: I mean, look, I sort of don't get into Marxism socialism.

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Speaker 4: I don't do iss. I just know that the union

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Speaker 4: and the union structure is the only way to fight back, right,

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Speaker 4: and so you know, the union is a hammer, and

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Speaker 4: I grabbed the hammer and I start smashing shit and

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Speaker 4: it's really fun.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So, I mean, the only reason people even think of writing, acting,

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Speaker 4: directing as being lucrative jobs. You know, like if you say, oh,

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Speaker 4: my cousin's a actor in LA, you might be, oh,

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Speaker 4: he's if he's working, he's making good money. Right, That's

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Speaker 4: what an assumption is. That's only because we've had strong

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Speaker 4: unions in this town for ninety years. The Writers School

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Speaker 4: was founded ninety years ago, and it's only because those

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Speaker 4: unions went on strike. The last time the writers and

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Speaker 4: actors went on strike together was nineteen sixty and in

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Speaker 4: that negotiation, we won our health and pension plans, and

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Speaker 4: we won the existence of residual payments, which are the

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Speaker 4: payments we get every time the product is aired. Right,

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Speaker 4: And that's why I have a health and pension today

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Speaker 4: is because they went on strike. Then that's why I've

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Speaker 4: gotten residuals to help tide me through the slow periods

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Speaker 4: of my career is because of those and writers going

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Speaker 4: on strike. And so now it's our turn to do

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Speaker 4: the same thing. And that's why we're out there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. As a thought experiment, I was trying to think of, like,

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Speaker 1: what do we think the last ninety years of movies

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Speaker 1: and TV look like if the industries were never unionized.

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Speaker 4: YouTube looks on YouTube, Yeah, you know, people barely scraping by.

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Speaker 4: Or it looks like I mean, look at Korea for instance,

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Speaker 4: there was or the anime industry. Right, those are two

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Speaker 4: extremely popular. You know, they make a lot of media

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Speaker 4: that's consumed by a lot of people, and the people

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Speaker 4: who make the media aren't able to make a living.

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Speaker 4: There was a great piece in the La Times a

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Speaker 4: couple of weeks ago about how the guy who created

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Speaker 4: Squid Game. You know, they and Netflix trotted this guy's

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Speaker 4: story out as a hero story. You know, Oh, he

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Speaker 4: tried to make the show for ten years and he

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Speaker 4: couldn't make it until Netflix gave him a chance. They

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Speaker 4: became a worldwide hit. Right, that guy made from the

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Speaker 4: first season, which was a again worldwide smash like Game

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Speaker 4: of Thrones level. You know, people watching it, he made

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Speaker 4: two hundred thousand. Yeah, that's you know, that's a good living. Right.

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Speaker 4: That's not what you should get if you made the

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Speaker 4: most popular show ever, right, And that's the guy who

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Speaker 4: created the show, the people who worked on the shows,

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Speaker 4: and the people who create you know, your more average

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Speaker 4: K dramas right that you know, you know, I hear

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Speaker 4: about one or two k K dramas or K comedies

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Speaker 4: a year, but you know the ones that are a

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Speaker 4: little further down the down the pipe, that that the

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Speaker 4: real the real fans watch. Those people are literally not

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Speaker 4: making a living making television. They are writing those shows

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Speaker 4: in between their day jobs, or they're working eighteen hour

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Speaker 4: days and then when the show ends, they're just like, well,

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Speaker 4: back to my day job. Right. And this this article.

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Speaker 4: You can look up LA Times, you know, squid Game Korean.

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Speaker 4: Google that and you'll find the article goes into really

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Speaker 4: long detail on that. And the reason is there's no

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Speaker 4: unions and Netflix is exploiting that. I mean, they talk

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Speaker 4: about Netflix came into that market and said, oh, we

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Speaker 4: want to you know, spread Korean content around the world, right,

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Speaker 4: and they created a lot of work, They created a

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Speaker 4: lot of shows, but no one's being paid because the

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Speaker 4: stand the work standards are so abysmal. It's sweatshop media. Unfortunately.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I had no idea that that was the thing.

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Speaker 2: I mean again, obviously because a lot of Koreat media

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Speaker 2: is so good that I was like, oh, this is

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Speaker 2: a natural progression of things, and then I remember, oh,

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Speaker 2: Netflix is going in like but there was a moment

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh, they're going in like to the

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Speaker 2: point where I was like, oh, they might. They're really

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Speaker 2: trying to put their foot down in Korea. I had

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Speaker 2: no ideas because they're like, yeah, man, you can get

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Speaker 2: away with anything over here.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, it's just like it's

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Speaker 4: a car company, you know, moving to Mexico right, or

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Speaker 4: to any other or you know Nike in Bangladesh, right,

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Speaker 4: it's there. They are taking advantage of poor work standards

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Speaker 4: to get the product a lot cheaper. And you know,

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Speaker 4: why do the companies love anime? You know, it's awesome

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Speaker 4: as an American you know, someone who grew up you know,

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Speaker 4: trading VHS tapes of anime that it's like popular in

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Speaker 4: the US now it's popular around the world. That's great.

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Speaker 4: But I mean, you guys know horrible conditions that anime

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Speaker 4: has made it. I mean people, people die in that.

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Speaker 2: Industry, symptoms make jokes about it. I remember, and I

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Speaker 2: was like, is that a joke or is that one

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Speaker 2: of those Simpsons jokes? So they're like, no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: that's real.

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Speaker 4: It's awful. It's awful. And that's one of the reasons

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Speaker 4: they're pumping it out, is they is they feel that

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Speaker 4: they can, you know, get more content for less dollars. Now.

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Speaker 4: The thing about that, though, is that American American media

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Speaker 4: is still the most popular valuable media in the world.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 4: It's still what people want to watch, like from a

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Speaker 4: big budget thing like Avatar too, right to you know,

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Speaker 4: even you know, reruns of old sitcoms. Right, people are

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Speaker 4: still watching Friends in Australia, you know, and Ireland, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and new shows as well. Right, that is what people

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Speaker 4: want to watch more than anything else, both in America

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Speaker 4: and around the world. And one of the reasons for

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Speaker 4: that is because the entertainment industry has been the only

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Speaker 4: place that paid creators fairly for the last hundred years.

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Speaker 4: You know, if you are a great writer and you

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Speaker 4: want to make if you want to if you want

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Speaker 4: to buy a big house of your writing, you know,

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Speaker 4: where are you gonna go? Are you gonna work in journalism?

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Speaker 4: Are you gonna work in novels? No, You're gonna go

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Speaker 4: try to sell a big movie script. Right. That's been

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Speaker 4: the pattern in Hollywood up until basically the early two thousands,

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Speaker 4: where you had the best writer. Literally, Faulkner and Fitzgerald

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Speaker 4: came to Hollywood right to write movies and you know,

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Speaker 4: think about, well they both drank themselves to death, but

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Speaker 4: too much money. Yeah, but you know that was that

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Speaker 4: was the way it worked. And the companies have broken

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Speaker 4: that compact and as a result, the content is getting worse. Unfortunately.

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Speaker 4: You know, we're entering this Marvel period where they're trying

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Speaker 4: to you know, they saying, oh, the actor doesn't matter,

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Speaker 4: the writing doesn't matter. All that matters is Spider Man.

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Speaker 4: People will go to see Spider Man no matter what,

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Speaker 4: you know, no matter who's in the suit, no matter

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Speaker 4: what he's saying. Right, And it's not actually true because

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Speaker 4: you know, look at what happened with the Flash, right,

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Speaker 4: they realize they can't just cram in superheroes and expect

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Speaker 4: people to show up. But you know, all that that

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Speaker 4: makes the CEOs think is they need to pump harder.

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Speaker 4: They need to you know, get more blood out of

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Speaker 4: that stone. But so these companies are destroying the compact.

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Speaker 4: And why did the compact work because of the unions.

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Speaker 4: We had strong unions here that that you know, meant

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Speaker 4: we had good working nditions that meant people wanted to

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Speaker 4: move here to Los Angeles or to New York to

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Speaker 4: make the content, and we're fighting to change that, to

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Speaker 4: make it the way it should be.

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Speaker 1: I feel like The Flash is a good example of

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Speaker 1: you know, the Flash recently came out. Indiana Jones recently

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Speaker 1: came out and the primary complaint that you heard from

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Speaker 1: them is creepy CGI, like terrible, weird CGI that take

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Speaker 1: takes you out of it, and like effects are a

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Speaker 1: frequent complaint, and you hear people like wonder why, like

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Speaker 1: how this happens on some of these movies. They spent

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Speaker 1: three hundred million dollars in effects, and it's at least

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Speaker 1: partially because the effects houses are not union, that is

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Speaker 1: not a part of the industry that is protected, and

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Speaker 1: so you have situations where the effects house that won

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Speaker 1: the Oscar for Life of Pie is out of business

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Speaker 1: by the time they get the award.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, if you talk to I've talked to

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Speaker 4: people who work at effects houses from Marvel, and they're

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Speaker 4: treated terribly. You know, they're they're asked to do impossible

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Speaker 4: things on impossible turnarounds that you know, well, we want

401
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Speaker 4: we want it like this, No, we want it like this,

402
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Speaker 4: you have to change everything, but we're not going to

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Speaker 4: pay you more, and you have hal so much time

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Speaker 4: to do it. You know that kind of request. The

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Speaker 4: people who work at these companies, you know that their

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Speaker 4: careers last five years and then they burn out because

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Speaker 4: they can't do it anymore. It's not like video games.

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Speaker 4: And you know the proof is in the pudding. But

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Speaker 4: also you know we're on we're in a new era

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Speaker 4: of the special effects.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 4: It used to be that the special effects, the CGI

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Speaker 4: was there to impress and delight the audience. Right, Oh

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Speaker 4: my god, look at the terminator and terminator too. Right,

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Speaker 4: he's melting. He's the melting man. It's look how cool?

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Speaker 4: Or toy story? Right, look how great it looks. Now

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Speaker 4: they you it as a cost cutting device. They use

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Speaker 4: it in order to they're like, oh, if we just

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Speaker 4: like send it all to a VFX house that's not

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Speaker 4: union and make them do all the work, it's a

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Speaker 4: lot cheaper. You know, if you look at the difference

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Speaker 4: between look the new Mission Impossible, right, I saw it.

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Speaker 4: Look it's not a good movie, but.

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Speaker 1: You don't think it's an accurate depiction of AI.

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Speaker 4: It is interesting that the villain is AI. Right, but

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Speaker 4: the script is I don't want to get into it, right,

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Speaker 4: but the action scenes, right, it's got these two incredible

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Speaker 4: action sequences that are totally worth seeing in a theater.

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Speaker 4: Had people hooting and hollering, great time. And why did

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Speaker 4: they work so well? Because they fucking happened in real life,

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Speaker 4: because they put in the effort and the craft and

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Speaker 4: the time to you know, go to the place and

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Speaker 4: do the stunt and shoot the thing, or to build

434
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 4: the set, or to buy the car, or to put

435
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:58,439
Speaker 4: the person in the place right. And for movies like

436
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 4: The Flash, they're like, just have the guys stand in

437
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,280
Speaker 4: front of a green screen and will make some underpaid

438
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,000
Speaker 4: couple bosos. Yeah you know, sorry, they're not bosos. They're

439
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,560
Speaker 4: great artists, but they're underpaid. They don't have enough time

440
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,960
Speaker 4: bring in terrible conditions. Yeah, so it's cut rate. It's

441
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:12,399
Speaker 4: sweatshop content, you know.

442
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,520
Speaker 1: And about another lightning portal in the sky, what if

443
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,199
Speaker 1: we did so it was.

444
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 4: Coming out of portals and yeah, yeah there's portals. I'm

445
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 4: as stuff.

446
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, Adam, I got to ask though, right, like these

447
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,600
Speaker 2: costs they got to the studios, gotta cut costs because

448
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,399
Speaker 2: I've heard it straight from their mouths, times are tough.

449
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,720
Speaker 2: Oh yeah for studios. I heard Bobby Jay I'll say

450
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,440
Speaker 2: Igre in a very fancy way. Uh, you know, really

451
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,680
Speaker 2: be out here being like, you know, their their demands

452
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,640
Speaker 2: are unrealistic or other people. I've heard that. I've heard

453
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,920
Speaker 2: the thing over and over that times are hard for studios.

454
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,239
Speaker 2: And we've talked a lot about this, where you know,

455
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,160
Speaker 2: Iger's pay was what approaching twenty seven million for the year,

456
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,240
Speaker 2: and like people like what David Zaslov almost be like

457
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 2: a quarter of a billion dollars in twenty twenty one. Yeah,

458
00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:00,639
Speaker 2: what how would you define from their perspective, It's that

459
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:04,400
Speaker 2: they're trying to inaccurately describe a problem that they maybe

460
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 2: they have created through their own business decisions. Yeah.

461
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:08,480
Speaker 4: I mean, that's a wonderful answer to your own question.

462
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 4: That's a great way to put it. I mean, look,

463
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:14,159
Speaker 4: these guys are raking it in. And let's be really clear.

464
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 4: So writer producer pay has fallen by twenty three percent

465
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 4: at the median over the last ten years. That's the

466
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 4: Writer's Guild's own figures. That's total pay. Over the same time,

467
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 4: show budgets have gone up by fifty percent. Revenue has

468
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 4: gone up, profits have gone up for these companies, just

469
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 4: their entertainment divisions. I'm not even talking about you know,

470
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 4: Disney's got sports, They've got theme parks. We're not talking

471
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 4: about that. We're just talking about literally the entertainment divisions

472
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 4: of the companies. Revenue, profits, budgets all up while our

473
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 4: salaries go down. At the same time, they're paying these companies,

474
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:53,160
Speaker 4: these CEOs massive, massive amounts of money. I mean, Bob

475
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 4: Iger when he made those comments, he had just negotiated

476
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 4: for himself an additional two years and he's making an

477
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,160
Speaker 4: extra fifty million by a year. That guy doesn't fucking

478
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 4: need that money. He's already incredibly wealthy if you look

479
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 4: at the aggregate he's made over the last ten years.

480
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,880
Speaker 4: How dare he go on television and plead poverty while

481
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:13,880
Speaker 4: the rest of us are not able to make a living,

482
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 4: while his workforce is not able to make health insurance

483
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 4: or you know, make a living anymore.

484
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,120
Speaker 1: It's revolting, but it's line goes up shit right. It's

485
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,640
Speaker 1: the their answering to the Wall Street and for Wall Street,

486
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 1: it's never enough, like when you have a good year,

487
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: that that that you should keep being better years, Like

488
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 1: that's what we want to consistently see that line also.

489
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 4: These But but it's not just that, because growth is

490
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,959
Speaker 4: growth is possible, right if you do you can do

491
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:46,160
Speaker 4: it the right way. You can pay everybody properly and

492
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 4: make good shit that people actually like and make more money.

493
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,439
Speaker 4: That's my belief in life. And there's companies that fucking

494
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,200
Speaker 4: do it right. And also it's what the entertainment industry did.

495
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 4: For a long time. A lot of people were paid

496
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 4: shitty in the entertainment industry, you know, like the unions

497
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 4: are the ones that you know that protected us pas.

498
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 4: We have always been paid shittily. There's a lot of

499
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 4: bad shit in Hollywood. But like you know, from the

500
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 4: eighties through the two thousands, everybody liked the product. Right,

501
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 4: We had peak TV, right, everyone had cable, We were

502
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 4: watching ads. We were fine with it. We could watch

503
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 4: on demand or use DVR if we needed to. You

504
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 4: know what I mean. Everything was people were making so

505
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 4: much money. People were going to the movie theater. The

506
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,360
Speaker 4: content was good, you know, and the people who made

507
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 4: it were paid. And now what's happening. People don't like

508
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 4: the product anymore. You know. The Netflix revolution was a lie.

509
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 4: That they you know, the idea that you could pay

510
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 4: fifteen dollars a month and never have to pay another

511
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,640
Speaker 4: penny and never watch an ad and watch every show

512
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,719
Speaker 4: ever made. They were lying to the public that that

513
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 4: was possible. They destroyed a profitable business model in order

514
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 4: to find a new one, but at the same time

515
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 4: they kept enough of the money for themselves that the

516
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 4: people at the top are doing better. Well, everyone else

517
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 4: does worse, But the companies would grow more if they

518
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 4: if they did it the right way. Period.

519
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Golden Age of TV is a great example

520
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 1: of the WGA working because you know, like you mentioned,

521
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 1: like the WGA, and like the things that the WGA

522
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 1: has provided, like writers with like the ability to make

523
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,880
Speaker 1: a living during dry periods or whatever, like helps writers,

524
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 1: you know, remain writers. And a lot of the best

525
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:31,959
Speaker 1: TV is created by people with the long time experience

526
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 1: in like past successful and unsuccessful TV shows like Breaking

527
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,919
Speaker 1: Bad is created by a former X Files writer, like

528
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 1: there's a big break between these Sopranos comes from a

529
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 1: writer on Northern Exposure, like Matthew Weiner cut his teeth

530
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 1: on Becker and in Laws before he got on sopranos.

531
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 1: Sh Yeah, but like the you know on your episode

532
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 1: where like where you were talking about the strike, you

533
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,880
Speaker 1: were talking to I think David Goodman, Yeah who and

534
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 1: you know his family guy writer who all told a

535
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: story about how he almost quit the industry but like

536
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,399
Speaker 1: a residual check for a show he wrote on in

537
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 1: the past that he said like wasn't very good, but

538
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 1: it got him through so that he could keep being

539
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 1: a writer. And there's just all this all this information

540
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 1: that gets passed down, Like iveryget where I heard it,

541
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 1: but somebody was saying that like the family tree of

542
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 1: all of the Golden Age TV shows, it all like

543
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: traces back to Colombo and like that show then like

544
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 1: created all like all the writers on that became showrunners

545
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 1: on other shows and it just like branched down. So

546
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,439
Speaker 1: we magically have this period of Golden era TV. But

547
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 1: like that doesn't happen if the television industry works the

548
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 1: way like the industry that I think all three of

549
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: us have a background in is like creating content for

550
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 1: the Internet.

551
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 4: And yeah, like just the.

552
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 1: Way that we've seen that devolve over the past fifteen.

553
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 4: Years, it doesn't exist anymore.

554
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 2: It doesn't exist, Like there are no guardrails and there

555
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 2: were no ways to, you know, like ensure good outcomes

556
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 2: for the people that were contributing to that environment.

557
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, because they the company has decided to pull them,

558
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,360
Speaker 4: sell them for part for parts, you know. I mean,

559
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,679
Speaker 4: look at look, I like I play video games, right,

560
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 4: so I like reading video game websites. There's no such

561
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 4: thing as video game websites anymore. I mean there's sites

562
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 4: where people upload it for free, like YouTube right right,

563
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 4: where people put in all the work and all the

564
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 4: risk themselves of putting up work, and then you know,

565
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 4: if you're lucky, you get paid by YouTube if you

566
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 4: happen to hit right right. But in terms of being

567
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 4: somebody who's like a journalist who covers video games goes

568
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 4: to E three interviews, people break stories right there literally

569
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,479
Speaker 4: are not outlets left that pay people to do this

570
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 4: because they've been stripping them for parts. One of them

571
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 4: that I read is Kotaku. I've read it for years.

572
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 4: They're trying to replace those writers with AI. They're trying

573
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 4: to like and like, what's what's the fucking point of that?

574
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 4: Do they do? They think I'm gonna go to taku

575
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 4: dot com to read AI generated articles. I also have

576
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 4: chat GPT I can just ask chat GPT if I

577
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 4: want an AI answer, why are you hiring someone to

578
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 4: copy paste from chat GPT? What the fuck is the

579
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 4: point of that? Why destroy your own industry? People go

580
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 4: because they like the people.

581
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 2: Right right, And I guess there's like that that's just

582
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 2: like that disconnect we see like in every industry where again,

583
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 2: there's like a motive to make sure that like you

584
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,719
Speaker 2: provide value to shareholders while completely like missing sight of

585
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 2: like the actual products that are being made and like

586
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 2: if consumers are gonna be savvy enough, because look, I

587
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 2: love bullshit reality TV, but I like like actually well

588
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 2: written television also, and I can already see like you

589
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 2: like just that that shift to MAX was like sort

590
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 2: of like a preview of like the worlds we're looking at.

591
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 2: It's like, well, remember HBO, there's that, and then there's

592
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 2: just all this other unscripted nonsense that fucking also is

593
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 2: really cheap to make, and like you know, kind of

594
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 2: maybe where things should be going if writers and actors

595
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 2: don't get off their shit.

596
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 4: Max is such an antithesis of the last you know

597
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 4: of how you build a successful media company, right like HBO.

598
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 4: There's a wonderful book about HBO. I read it this

599
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 4: year called It's not TV, It's it's a history of HBO.

600
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 4: From the beginning, what you realize HBO is like this,

601
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 4: you know, starts out as just a cable company that

602
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 4: you know, you pay extra and you can watch fights

603
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 4: and stuff like that, right, right, and then they find

604
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 4: this niche of oh, we can make content that doesn't

605
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 4: exist on broadcast. Right, we can make something that's edgy.

606
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 4: We can da da da da, Right, and they build

607
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 4: it on exactly dream on right, this show with a

608
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 4: price to watch that because there was boobs in it, right.

609
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 4: But you know, they did the Larry Sanders show, they

610
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 4: did the Sopranos, right, and they sort of create prestige.

611
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 4: TV is created by HBO to the point where you know,

612
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 4: by by up to you know, three or four years ago.

613
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 4: You know, if a show comes out on HBO, you're like,

614
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 4: I'm going to assume this show is good, right, because

615
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 4: you know that their creative culture is HBO is putting

616
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 4: their muscle behind that. It's got to be good. There's exceptions.

617
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 4: There's stinkers, of course, yes, like like you know the

618
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 4: idol or whatever. But that's the it's the cathedral of

619
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 4: television and people know that, right, And so when Netflix

620
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:15,719
Speaker 4: comes along and all these other channels starting their streamers,

621
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 4: what would have been the easiest thing in the world.

622
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 4: Call the streamer HBO. Yes, people are already subscribed to

623
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 4: HBO for fifteen bucks a month. There's a streaming service

624
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 4: called HBO. Have HBO make more shows, keep the brand

625
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 4: that people know, the thing people care about. They actually

626
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 4: like HBO. It's for adults. It means something to people.

627
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 4: It's not TV, it's HBO instead. Now HBO is a

628
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 4: vertical underneath this mystery meat thing Max that no one's

629
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 4: ever hurt. That's not a brand. That was literally what

630
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 4: they called it instead of Plus. They're like, should we

631
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 4: call it HBO Plus? No, too small, We'll call it

632
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 4: HBO Max. Right, it's extreme HBO. And then like, but

633
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 4: then they got rid of the part that people fucking

634
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 4: knew and just called it Max. That's like if Disney

635
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 4: Plus just called itself plus, right, people are there for

636
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 4: the Disney you're not there for the Plus.

637
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: I'm so mouse and then the Max ads. We're all

638
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 1: trading on these like icons of film, Like, yeah, the

639
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 1: things that like are completely outside of the model that

640
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: they're trying to force things in the direction.

641
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 4: Or called it fucking Warner Brothers. People know Warner Brothers,

642
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 4: call it Warner Max. People love the people. People have

643
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 4: been watching Warner Brothers in this country for one hundred years.

644
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 4: Like just call it that. But instead, you know, Zoslav

645
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 4: treats this company it's like a stock portfolio to him, right,

646
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 4: He's like, oh, I put this in, I put that in,

647
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 4: I put that and that's my tranch of content. That's

648
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 4: my big batch of content. I don't give a shit

649
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 4: what it's called, right, yeah, because his plan is to

650
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 4: sell it or whatever he wants to do. He's he's

651
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 4: financialized it. But that's not that's not how you build

652
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 4: a media brand. And you know, it's it's a shame.

653
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 4: Like it often feels stupid to say, why don't these

654
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 4: companies like respect these old time values of having like

655
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 4: a good media brand that people actually care about. You know,

656
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 4: that means something to people, But like I feel stupid

657
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 4: saying that because they don't care. They only care about money.

658
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 4: But like they lose money by doing this, you know, like, people,

659
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 4: how have we forgotten the lessons of the last hundred

660
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 4: years of capitalism? Did these people go to fucking marketing school,

661
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 4: Like it's just basic brand shit. Sorry no, but it's true.

662
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 2: I mean it's it's so reactionary, and it's everything about

663
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 2: like whatever is good in the short term with no

664
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 2: long term thinking. Like everybody's getting into streaming. I guess

665
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 2: we're getting into streaming too. Wait what does it take

666
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 2: to do that? And now we see like I mean,

667
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 2: like with HBO Max, we saw half of the shit

668
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 2: that was like interesting to people get absolutely vaporized. Yeah

669
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 2: it's hard.

670
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, let's take a quick break and we'll

671
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: be right back to talk more about this and AI

672
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 1: and we're back and like big, like a movie that

673
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: comes through and is like a visionary work that like

674
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 1: that that's not that interesting to wall Street and to

675
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,800
Speaker 1: David's aslov because it's not something that you can replicate,

676
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,959
Speaker 1: and like scale is the word they use, Like yeah,

677
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 1: and so they like the HBO of it is not

678
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 1: interesting to him. He wants to create something where he

679
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,839
Speaker 1: can just churn out shit, which is I think why

680
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:38,399
Speaker 1: AI is so interesting to him.

681
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 4: I mean, I think you can scale creativity because all

682
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 4: you have to do is cultivate a culture of the

683
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 4: most creative people. And have them come in the door

684
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 4: and give them, you know, pay them appropriately, give them

685
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 4: the right guidance they might need. And a great example

686
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 4: of that is HBO. Right, it was a for in

687
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 4: its pinnacle period. It was a hit factory, you know.

688
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 4: Or you could look at something like Comedy cent right,

689
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 4: which in its heyday really dominated comedy in America and

690
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 4: did a good job. Like they would take comics and

691
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 4: they would give them an album and then a uh,

692
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 4: you know, a half hour, and or they'll give them

693
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,439
Speaker 4: a spot on TV, then a half hour than an hour,

694
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 4: then maybe they get a TV show, you know what

695
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 4: I mean. It was like a whole pipeline and it

696
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 4: made the comedy better. And they did it by just

697
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 4: you know, saying, well, we're gonna we're gonna go find

698
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 4: people right right. But the reason we stopped having that

699
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 4: is because I think partially these guys wanted more control

700
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 4: because if they were making original ideas, you know, if

701
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 4: you look at all the biggest so so many of

702
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 4: the movies that we're watching now a reboots of the

703
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 4: fertile period where they actually did this right in the

704
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 4: eighties or nineties, where stuff like Indiana Jones back to

705
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 4: the future the Matrix, like you know these things where

706
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 4: these movies would come out of nowhere. They would be

707
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 4: completely original in ways that nobody had ever seen, and

708
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 4: they would make a huge amount of money. And then

709
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,359
Speaker 4: they would you know, inspire other creativity. Right look at

710
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 4: look at how the Matrix affected so much else. Right, So, uh,

711
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 4: they but they decide they don't want to do that

712
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 4: because it gives the creators too much power. Right then

713
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 4: you as the executive, you're having to like give all

714
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 4: these other people money and do what they say. Right.

715
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 4: Then then George Lucas, right, can become the big the

716
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 4: big executive, and you're not, right, You're just the guy

717
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 4: who pays George Lucas. And so they don't like that.

718
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 4: What they like is IP. The reason they like IP

719
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 4: is because they can own it. They don't own you know,

720
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:35,839
Speaker 4: Toby Maguire. They don't own who directed the first Spider Man.

721
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 2: What's what Sam Raimi?

722
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 4: Thank you? And he did a great job, right, Sam

723
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 4: Raimi was a wonderful director on those movies. They don't

724
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 4: own either of those people, but they own Spider Man,

725
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 4: and so they can make it that it doesn't matter

726
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 4: who's in the suit, right, And Actually, I think that's

727
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 4: part of why they ran with the Flash, or they

728
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:53,799
Speaker 4: didn't boot Ezra Miller out of there, because who gives

729
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 4: a shit. People are just gonna come see the flash, right,

730
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 4: and it's wrong. People don't like it as much. People

731
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 4: don't enjoy this content, but that's what they're going with

732
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 4: because it gives them the control over the business.

733
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,799
Speaker 2: And is that like, and you brought up AI and

734
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 2: I'm curious, you know, just from the WGA's perspective, what

735
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 2: that intersection is, you know, the existential threat of AI?

736
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 2: How much of that is an existential threat because I

737
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 2: think human taste also counts for a lot. Just like

738
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 2: you're in your example of Kotaku and like, I'm not

739
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 2: really looking for AI generated articles, but can you talk

740
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 2: to that sort of what that sort of what what

741
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 2: is sort of seen in the horizon for you know,

742
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 2: what this how the studios really want to integrate artificial

743
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 2: intelligence in terms of like how that could enter the

744
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 2: creative process.

745
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 4: So I don't give a shit about the technology, you know,

746
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 4: I think the technology is bullshit. I think it's does

747
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 4: some interesting things. You know. And by the way, we're

748
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 4: talking about different types of technology that are being labeled

749
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 4: as AI, which is a marketing term. Right, Like large

750
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:55,280
Speaker 4: language models and the ability to create a deep fake

751
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 4: of somebody right of a dead actor are both being

752
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:04,399
Speaker 4: called AI being called AI. They're not that similar of technologies, right,

753
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 4: but that's what we're calling them. So whatever, I'll say AI,

754
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 4: I just want to like point that out for generating AI. Yeah, yeah, sure,

755
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 4: but people are saying that, like, oh, generative AI is

756
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 4: going to take over and replace everybody, and I don't

757
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,399
Speaker 4: buy this, Like, large language models are good at one thing,

758
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:22,839
Speaker 4: and that thing does not apply to nearly as much

759
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 4: stuff as people think that it does, right.

760
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 1: Right, the creating the illusion that the thing you're talking

761
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,839
Speaker 1: to or the thing that's generating the text is thinking, yeah,

762
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 1: that's what it's caught into it. But it's just recombining shit,

763
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: which is what the studios identified. Like, That's that's why

764
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 1: it makes sense to me that they were so scared

765
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 1: of like taking away AI, because they're like, this thing

766
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 1: works like us, It's just recombined shit until you get

767
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: something that kind of looks like the previous thing and

768
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 1: is good enough to kind of trick people into buying

769
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:53,720
Speaker 1: a ticket.

770
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 4: We often joke that I could replace their jobs more

771
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,359
Speaker 4: easily than ours. But you know the reality is that

772
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 4: this is this technology is nothing like artificial intelligence. Like

773
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 4: because every job in television involves talking to other people, right,

774
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 4: reading the paper, learning about the world around you, responding

775
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 4: to recent events, right, having conversations. None of these are

776
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,879
Speaker 4: things that so called AI can do. What a large

777
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 4: language model does is you put text in one end,

778
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 4: and it gives you text that would plausibly be a

779
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 4: response to the first text out the other end. And

780
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 4: it does that based on everything else that it's read. Right,

781
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 4: that's not intelligence. That's recombining words in an interesting way

782
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 4: that in some cases could be useful. Right, But you

783
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 4: know it's it's the same as you know you've seen

784
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 4: the now here's the problem. These companies might use this

785
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 4: technology to try to undermine our wages and working conditions,

786
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 4: and that's what we're trying to get them to stop.

787
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 4: So I'll give you an example of this. Writing is

788
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,280
Speaker 4: much more than outputting text. You'd have to be stupid

789
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 4: to think it was. Writing means not just coming up

790
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,760
Speaker 4: with an idea, not just writing it down. It means

791
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 4: talking to the network guy on the phone and understanding

792
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 4: what his needs are taking the note in a way

793
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 4: that is smarter than what he could even think of,

794
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 4: because that guy's actually kind of dumb, right, But you're like, okay,

795
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 4: the note behind the note is the actually wants it

796
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 4: like this, So that's what I'll do. Right. Then you

797
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:15,959
Speaker 4: go talk to the actor. Oh, the actor doesn't really

798
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 4: like their lines that much because you know they're a

799
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 4: little you know, Tom Cruise, a little bit worried. It

800
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 4: makes them look kind of wimpy. So we have to

801
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:22,799
Speaker 4: adjust that a little bit. We have to like go

802
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 4: have drinks with him and then like change the script.

803
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 4: Right then, it means talking to the director and like

804
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 4: adjusting it to fit his vision. It means understanding how

805
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,799
Speaker 4: much a particular scene might cost so that you can say,

806
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 4: you know what, they're never going to be able to

807
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 4: shoot that. Let me, you know, combine these two scenes

808
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:38,800
Speaker 4: and that way it'll be cheaper and the line producer

809
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 4: won't yell at me. Right, and then the line producer

810
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:42,320
Speaker 4: comes and yells at you anyway, you have changed the

811
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 4: scene again, blah blah blah blah. Then you go to

812
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 4: set and you watch the actor and you say, oh,

813
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 4: you know, the actually this line the way you're saying,

814
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 4: it doesn't mean what you think it means, Like, it's

815
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 4: gonna be confusing. So could you, like, let's adjust the

816
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 4: line a little bit, you know, et cetera. Doing that

817
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 4: on set, then it means going to the edit, going

818
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:03,839
Speaker 4: to post production and watching the episode and saying, oh, man,

819
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 4: this episode's five minutes too long. We have to cut something.

820
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:10,359
Speaker 4: What can we cut without losing anything important? Oh, here's

821
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 4: a creative fix. Let's have the actor like say this

822
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 4: little line of adr dialogue and it will bring him

823
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 4: back in and that'll solve the problem. Right. All of

824
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 4: those things are writing. That's what it means to be

825
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:24,240
Speaker 4: a writer in Hollywood. Okay, it's not outputting text. However,

826
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 4: the people who run these companies are stupid and ignorant

827
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 4: enough to think that all out writing is is outputting

828
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 4: text because they never work with us or talk to us. Right.

829
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 4: Ted Sarandos has not spoken with a writer in ten years. Right,

830
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 4: So they are likely to be sold a bill of

831
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 4: goods by some tech company. Some tech company coming to

832
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 4: them and saying, hey, guess what we made a super AI.

833
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 4: You just input all your old scripts and we'll output

834
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 4: new movies for you. And then you won't need writers anymore.

835
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:54,839
Speaker 4: And so what they'll do is they'll say, Okay, here's

836
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 4: the really great script that the AI wrote. We just

837
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 4: need somebody to punch it up, take our notes, go

838
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 4: talk to the actor, go to set, go to post.

839
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 4: Oh but none of that's writing. That's just producing. So

840
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 4: you're not going to get paid as a writer. You're

841
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,320
Speaker 4: not a writer, you're a producer. Like no, the human

842
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 4: who does all that is still doing all of the writing.

843
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:16,839
Speaker 4: They're just going to take some piece of shit and

844
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 4: make it work. But they but they may not be

845
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 4: paid as a writer. And that is what we are

846
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 4: fighting to prevent now. That's in writing. Actors have different

847
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 4: issues where they're worried about their likenesses and that's an

848
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 4: immediate threat that could happen with them. The AMPTP literally

849
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 4: proposed that for background actors. These are the people who

850
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 4: are in the background of scenes. And it's not a

851
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 4: highly paid job, but it is a professional job that

852
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:41,319
Speaker 4: people who do it are good at it, and it's

853
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 4: something you should be able to earn a living at

854
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:45,760
Speaker 4: because it takes a full day, you know, and people

855
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 4: do it, you know, every day of the week. It's

856
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 4: something that they need to make to make movies and TV.

857
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 4: So the AMPTP, who are negotiating against literally proposed that

858
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 4: background actors would be paid one day's wages, they would

859
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 4: be scanned in to an AI on their first day,

860
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 4: and then the company would then own that likeness in

861
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 4: perpetuity and could do whatever they wanted to with it. Now,

862
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 4: I want to be really clear, this is not some

863
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 4: fancy new technology. This is something they could have done

864
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 4: two years ago. Right. It's just like digital scanning, Like

865
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,760
Speaker 4: any actor who's worked in a movie on vfxkift digitally scanned.

866
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 4: The difference is they want to steal our likenesses right

867
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 4: and own them in perpetuity. It's the business practice that's

868
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 4: the problem, and that like incense, the sag after negotiating committee,

869
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 4: and that's why they're on strike.

870
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean makes sense. My grandparents were. They they

871
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 2: made a living off of background acting, like in the

872
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:41,239
Speaker 2: nineties after they were retired, because my uncle was like

873
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:43,400
Speaker 2: in the industry and he's like, man, they need to

874
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:45,399
Speaker 2: get out of the house, they need something to do,

875
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:47,239
Speaker 2: and like I talk about it on the show all

876
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:49,479
Speaker 2: the time, they were like playing like the old black

877
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 2: couple and like so many movies in nineties, things like

878
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 2: Jerry Maguire Deep Impact and things like that, and I

879
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:57,839
Speaker 2: saw firsthand for them like that it gave them all

880
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 2: kinds of benefits. And they're not even the people that

881
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 2: are like the stars, you know what I mean that

882
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 2: there's still a way to even have a living from

883
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 2: just being you know, like being available and wanting to

884
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 2: participate in these productions. So yet to hear then that

885
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 2: they just want to reduce human beings to basically like

886
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:18,360
Speaker 2: reusable facial fonts that they can just replicate willy nilly

887
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:21,919
Speaker 2: like is Yeah, it's it's definitely disconcerting. And I think

888
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:24,839
Speaker 2: there's similar things even happening with podcasting too, where you

889
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 2: hear so much too about being like creating like vocal

890
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 2: models to be able to like transpose things into all

891
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:32,840
Speaker 2: kinds of different languages or things like that, and then

892
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:36,359
Speaker 2: you're like, oh, that's you begin to see the stickiness there.

893
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you can do that now with like one

894
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 1: minute's worth of talking, and I think we have given

895
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:46,360
Speaker 1: them millions of minutes worth talking, so we're pretty fucked the.

896
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,959
Speaker 2: Language that that model better be fucking good based on material.

897
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,320
Speaker 4: The idea, but just the fundamental idea that people would

898
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 4: listen or watch AI generated content is moronic.

899
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,400
Speaker 1: But it will, Like that's the thing with the media,

900
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 1: like the online media world, Like it will like they

901
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 1: don't give a shit the people who are making it.

902
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:12,359
Speaker 1: Like there's this tweet that screencap from Ashley Clark at

903
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 1: Underscore ash Underscore Clark, that's just a screen cap of

904
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 1: this like outbrain article and it says it's a picture

905
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:22,280
Speaker 1: of Vince Vaughan and it says it's no big secret

906
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 1: why Van vaught isn't around anymore sponsored van but it's

907
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 1: it's just the AI misfiring. But it's enough to like,

908
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 1: you know that that used to Like it's just been

909
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:41,399
Speaker 1: a slow degradation as they fucked the people out of

910
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 1: creating that sort of content that had any talent or

911
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 1: you know, interest in making it good. And that I think,

912
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 1: like the union, this strike is what is standing between

913
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 1: us and just a world of fucking mediocrity, like just

914
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 1: the studios getting their way. Like so just from the

915
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 1: consumer's perspective, like even if you don't understand that, like

916
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 1: the you know, labor is incredibly important and increasingly so

917
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:12,840
Speaker 1: going forward, Like just from what you're going to be

918
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: seeing like the movies and TV shows you're going to

919
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 1: be streaming, Like this is what is standing between you

920
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:24,280
Speaker 1: and a future of like turning on Netflix and seeing

921
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:25,720
Speaker 1: like some shit like Van.

922
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 2: Vaught like in Love Is Born, the dating reality show. Huh,

923
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 2: like these scripts that make sense, Like that's what the

924
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 2: AI did. They know better than us. Yeah, we're not

925
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:37,319
Speaker 2: really good with the written word.

926
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,239
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, and it's and by the way, it's like

927
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 4: it's getting better so fast soon it's gonna be good.

928
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 4: I'll believe it when I fucking see it, right, Like

929
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 4: they're trying to give you Van Vaught right now. Yeah

930
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 4: you know, uh, give me a give me a like

931
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 4: miss me with the with the like oh you you

932
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 4: have to bow down before AI, because I'm pretty sure

933
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 4: it's gonna be great later, like fuck off, Like that's.

934
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:04,319
Speaker 2: Let's preemptively fail like full before it.

935
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:06,799
Speaker 1: Huh really And yeah, to your point, I think we've

936
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 1: seen like the degradation happening as it's gone more like

937
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:12,839
Speaker 1: I do think there's a huge overlap with what these

938
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 1: chat gpt like AI like quote unquote AIS are doing

939
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 1: and what like studio executives do with the combination and

940
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 1: recombination of shit. And it's like for the past, we

941
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 1: have seen things trend toward mediocrity in the world of movies,

942
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 1: and you're just seeing, like, you know, I feel like

943
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 1: eventually they could get to a world where an AI

944
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 1: chat GPT variety could shit out something similar to like

945
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 1: Jurassic World or Star Trek, the Star Trek that was

946
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 1: basically like mapping the plot of Star Wars onto Star

947
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 1: Trek characters, or you know, the The Lion King live action,

948
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 1: And like, these are movies that make money and fool

949
00:47:56,360 --> 00:48:00,400
Speaker 1: you enough to buy the ticket, but then like it

950
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:03,800
Speaker 1: just doesn't have a cultural imprint. It's like a copy

951
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 1: of a copy that just sort of tails off.

952
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 4: And I mean the fact that they even call those

953
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:12,759
Speaker 4: Lion King movies live action. They're not live action, their

954
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:17,240
Speaker 4: computer animated. You think they got a real lion to talk.

955
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 4: It's an animated movie. Yeah, it's animated, just like the

956
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 4: last one. What the fuck.

957
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 2: Are they right?

958
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 4: And yes, it's chum right. It's like, hey, we can

959
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 4: pay like a bunch of overworked VFX people nothing to

960
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 4: turn this shit out rather than make a real movie.

961
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, but they'll never come up with Jurassic Park. Or

962
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 1: you know, the original Star Trek or the original Star Wars,

963
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 1: and so this will be what we will have. We'll

964
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 1: just have pastiche will have just you know, a flat,

965
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:54,319
Speaker 1: flattened out version of mediocrity, and like we will have

966
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 1: lost one of the great things that America ever created.

967
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, and look, that's why I believe the Enderdament industry

968
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 4: is one of the great things in America has ever created.

969
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 4: It's it's popular art. A lot of it is direk

970
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:09,360
Speaker 4: but you know, you watch the reason people love it

971
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:10,759
Speaker 4: is they watch it and they go, that's fucking art.

972
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 4: It's art to speaks to me, you know what, And

973
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 4: it's it's great art. And some of it, you know,

974
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 4: films are Film is one of the great American art

975
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 4: forms that we invented here. It's like right fucking next

976
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 4: to jazz, right in terms of great American art forms

977
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:28,759
Speaker 4: that were invented in America. And the reason we're on

978
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 4: strike is not to save the art form. It's not

979
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 4: to save movies. We're on strike to save our careers.

980
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 4: And it's an economic struggle, but it's it's something we

981
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 4: all give a shit about, and it's it's something that

982
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 4: I hope we can help reverse.

983
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, how do you just like in your long view? Right?

984
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:47,759
Speaker 2: I mean, like we talked about the up top that

985
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 2: you know, there's the more cynical strategy seem to be

986
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 2: some studio executors are like, well, let's just see if

987
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:56,319
Speaker 2: we can wait them out until they lose their housing. Yeah,

988
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:59,359
Speaker 2: you know, what's your long view of how obviously I

989
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 2: see how can did the writers are and now actors

990
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 2: are to making like ensuring that things are better not

991
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 2: just for themselves but for future people that take this path.

992
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 2: But I mean, how are you looking at it? And

993
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:12,360
Speaker 2: obviously I can see how energized you are, so I

994
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 2: know that, like you, there's optimism, But what is it

995
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 2: like from that end to hear the fucking people that

996
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:20,560
Speaker 2: you're trying to negotiate and hear such like cynical bullshit

997
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 2: like that that they're like, well, we have more money

998
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:25,440
Speaker 2: honestly in the end, and we'll just drive them out

999
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 2: of dollars maybe as a negotiating time.

1000
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, it's it's all we did. This one

1001
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:33,320
Speaker 4: is laugh I mean in deadline, the people for the

1002
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:35,839
Speaker 4: companies literally said they were gonna starve us out until

1003
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 4: we lose our homes like right, And it was the

1004
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:40,799
Speaker 4: dumbest thing to say, because it was like an old

1005
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:42,800
Speaker 4: playbook where they used to try to like slip stuff

1006
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:45,279
Speaker 4: into the trades to scare us. You know, that's that's

1007
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:49,319
Speaker 4: was their playbook was. You know, we'll we'll try to

1008
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:52,359
Speaker 4: convince the writers to fold because we're gonna last longer

1009
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:54,719
Speaker 4: than them. It was tough talk. They didn't realize that

1010
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 4: they said it on the Internet and that like the

1011
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 4: whole world could see it and it would result in

1012
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 4: an out pouring of support because they literally they're they're

1013
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:05,880
Speaker 4: saying they're gonna put their make they're gonna make their

1014
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:09,279
Speaker 4: writers homeless, like what the fuck? Right, Like it's reprehensible,

1015
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:12,440
Speaker 4: It's no one could hear this and be on the

1016
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 4: side of the person who said that, Like, what the

1017
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 4: fuck are they talking about? And it's it's evil to

1018
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:20,319
Speaker 4: say that. It's on the face of it evil and

1019
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 4: it's a it's against every American value and so you know,

1020
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 4: it's it's ludicrous that they said this. Multiple people from

1021
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 4: multiple streamers and studios said this to a reporter multiple times,

1022
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 4: like go read the article, he's source a rag. But

1023
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 4: they do their reporting, you know, so you know, all

1024
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:41,319
Speaker 4: we can really do is laugh. I mean and also

1025
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:42,680
Speaker 4: by the way show that they were panicking.

1026
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I think it's kind of everywhere right now.

1027
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 2: I mean, like this whole moment, it's not just you,

1028
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 2: it's Ups, it's waffle House, it's Starbucks, it's Amazon. We're

1029
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 2: really like at this this real inflection point where like

1030
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:00,840
Speaker 2: the greed and disconnect of like C suites to like

1031
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:03,879
Speaker 2: actual how like people do a job like is now

1032
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:05,799
Speaker 2: really bubbling up to the surface. And now like they're

1033
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:09,280
Speaker 2: kind of confused like wait, wait, oh, it's that bad.

1034
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:12,239
Speaker 2: And I hope that this you know that you know,

1035
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:15,760
Speaker 2: all of you are successful like in this battle, because

1036
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 2: I think it's it's really important, and I have a

1037
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 2: feeling that it'll affect a lot of other things happening

1038
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 2: in the country too.

1039
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:24,440
Speaker 4: Look, it's the same battle that everyone in America is facing.

1040
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 4: Right What's happened to us is over the last twenty years,

1041
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 4: the companies have figured out how to take the money

1042
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 4: from our pockets that came from our labor and keep

1043
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 4: it for themselves. That's it. Yeah, So why is it

1044
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:37,480
Speaker 4: that in America right now we have a record low

1045
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:41,200
Speaker 4: on employment rate and people can't afford homes, they can't

1046
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:44,000
Speaker 4: afford school for the kids, they can't afford medical care.

1047
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 4: Why is that. It's because the same thing has happened

1048
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 4: to everybody. This is what capitalism has done to us all,

1049
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:53,839
Speaker 4: and so we're fighting back against it, and they're you know,

1050
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:56,760
Speaker 4: we're going to win, and we're gonna save our industry

1051
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:58,239
Speaker 4: and we're going to show everyone that this is how

1052
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 4: you can do it. You can do it with a union.

1053
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:02,279
Speaker 4: And it's hard to form a union. We're lucky because

1054
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:04,800
Speaker 4: we already have strong unions, as we have for ninety years.

1055
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 4: But why do we have them because workers started them

1056
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:10,840
Speaker 4: and the conditions in which they started, the conditions in

1057
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:13,959
Speaker 4: which the Writers Guild was founded ninety years ago were

1058
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:16,680
Speaker 4: far more inimical than the conditions are today. You know,

1059
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:19,319
Speaker 4: we had people who writers who never talked to each

1060
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:22,080
Speaker 4: other it working for these giant companies that you know,

1061
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 4: hired and fired them constantly. They had no credit, nobody

1062
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 4: thought they mattered at all, and they just talked to

1063
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:30,759
Speaker 4: each other and built a community and started a union.

1064
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:33,239
Speaker 4: Took them ten years to get the union recognized, took

1065
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:36,920
Speaker 4: years past that to get a contract. But because they

1066
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 4: put in that time and effort for years when nobody

1067
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:43,280
Speaker 4: thought it was possible. All their friends said, you're stupid,

1068
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:45,399
Speaker 4: they said, is this going to work? I don't feel right.

1069
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:47,319
Speaker 4: I don't know. I'm kind of worried, you know, like

1070
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 4: all that shit happened to them, just like what happened

1071
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:51,320
Speaker 4: to you if you started a union in your workplace,

1072
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:54,480
Speaker 4: because they did it. I have a health intention plan, yeah,

1073
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:56,440
Speaker 4: and one of the best in the country that I'm

1074
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:58,279
Speaker 4: very proud to have, although I'm going to lose it

1075
00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:00,319
Speaker 4: in a couple of months because I have worked in

1076
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:03,479
Speaker 4: a little while. So hopefully the strike, when the strike

1077
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 4: is over, I'll get it. I'll get a job so

1078
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 4: I can keep getting that reimbursement for my therapist.

1079
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 1: There you go. Well, Adam, thank you so much for

1080
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 1: taking the time during what I'm assuming it's a crazy

1081
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:18,399
Speaker 1: busy period. We really appreciate you talking to us and

1082
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 1: fighting the good fight. Mans.

1083
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 4: Keep doing it, guys, It's so wonderful to be here,

1084
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:25,840
Speaker 4: and thanks for your support. And oh, let me plug

1085
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:28,640
Speaker 4: by the way. Two things. First of all, I am

1086
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 4: not working for television and film right now. I got

1087
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 4: to make a living somehow. I'm on tour as a

1088
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 4: stand up comic. So if you live in Buffalo, Providence,

1089
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 4: Rhode Island, Saint Louis, or oh god, what's the last one? Baltimore,

1090
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:42,920
Speaker 4: please go to Adam Conover dot net. You can find

1091
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:44,839
Speaker 4: tickets and tour dates there. I've got a brand new

1092
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:47,360
Speaker 4: hour stand up. If you want to support the strike,

1093
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 4: you can donate to the Entertainment Community Fund. This is

1094
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:54,880
Speaker 4: a fund that gives money to film television workers, you know, writers, actors,

1095
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 4: crew members, ununionized people who are PAS, people like that

1096
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 4: who are not able to pay their rent or their

1097
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:03,279
Speaker 4: medical costs, whether because of the strike or for some

1098
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:06,279
Speaker 4: other reason. So if you go to Entertainmentcommunity dot org

1099
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:09,840
Speaker 4: and click donate to Film and TV Workers, you can, uh,

1100
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:12,279
Speaker 4: you can directly support not just the strike but all

1101
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 4: film and TV workers, and and donating money of that

1102
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 4: does help us stay on the picket line longer. So

1103
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:18,440
Speaker 4: we we really appreciate.

1104
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:20,320
Speaker 1: You amazing, well, thanks so much.

1105
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:22,040
Speaker 4: Man, awesome, thank you guys.

1106
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:26,439
Speaker 1: All right, that was our conversation with Adam khan Over.

1107
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:29,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was really going hard on David Aslov.

1108
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:32,759
Speaker 1: I know, I didn't like that part, and we were

1109
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 1: kind of cowards, Loki.

1110
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:36,240
Speaker 2: We were kind of cowards from should have pushed back.

1111
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 1: Very nice.

1112
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:40,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry about that.

1113
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 1: I had all these questions about, like if he feels

1114
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:48,239
Speaker 1: guilty because the billionaire guy who owns Cardier like talked

1115
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 1: about how he's losing scared, he's scared man like think

1116
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:52,880
Speaker 1: about his sleep.

1117
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:59,000
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, it's so again it's we're this is

1118
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:01,799
Speaker 2: fucking everywhere. I think that's what's really wild is that, Like,

1119
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 2: it's human beings are just reaching that natural limit where

1120
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 2: you can only toil for so long and not get

1121
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:12,360
Speaker 2: what is o to you to just live, to be

1122
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:14,760
Speaker 2: able to put a roof over your head, eat, support

1123
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:16,920
Speaker 2: a family, all that. And yeah, I mean I think

1124
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:20,239
Speaker 2: right now it's it's a huge lot of eyes on

1125
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:23,400
Speaker 2: them because again, these are probably the most visible union

1126
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 2: members yeah on the planet.

1127
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:28,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, hey man, like I said, it's no big secret

1128
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:33,919
Speaker 1: why Van Bought isn't around anymore. Oh my god, that's

1129
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 1: what we're facing. That is what we're facing.

1130
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:36,399
Speaker 4: Man.

1131
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:39,360
Speaker 2: Wait till people start listening to the Dolly ze get.

1132
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:45,440
Speaker 1: That's like I kept thinking about when we were talking.

1133
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:47,480
Speaker 1: I kept thinking about the sixty minutes thing where Scott

1134
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:51,560
Speaker 1: Pelly was like and the chet GPT finished Ernest Hemingway's

1135
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 1: story the like six words baby shoes for sale, never worn,

1136
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 1: and like added like a parent, a mother and a

1137
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:03,160
Speaker 1: father character and a third character was like, so it

1138
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:05,920
Speaker 1: like ruined the fucking thing that you're talking about, but

1139
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:08,960
Speaker 1: it's just like churned out more and be right pressed

1140
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:12,319
Speaker 1: by that. Yeah, it added on to it created a

1141
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:19,240
Speaker 1: whole baby shoes for Sale universe, shared cinematic universe. Anyways,

1142
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 1: good conversation. I feel like I know more about AI.

1143
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:26,000
Speaker 1: I feel like I know more about this moment in

1144
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:27,360
Speaker 1: the labor struggle.

1145
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:31,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, just yeah, one dimension of a very large one. Yeah,

1146
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:34,640
Speaker 2: across the fucking world basically, And yeah, make sure you

1147
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 2: guys check. We will have in the foot and oaks.

1148
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:39,760
Speaker 2: You know, Adam's tour dates and stuff like that, so

1149
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 2: be sure to catch him on the road because he's

1150
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:43,600
Speaker 2: it's actually it's actually really funny.

1151
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:46,360
Speaker 1: Turns out is actually really funny.

1152
00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 2: God damn all right, people find you at Miles of

1153
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:53,720
Speaker 2: Gray wherever they got at symbols, I'm there. And then also,

1154
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:56,480
Speaker 2: thank you to everybody who started listening and subscribing to

1155
00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 2: The Good Thief the new podcast. Please continue to subscribe.

1156
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 2: I've been listening and reviewing all that. Episode two comes

1157
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:06,320
Speaker 2: out tomorrow Wednesday, where we go even deeper into the

1158
00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 2: mystery that is Vasili's Body of Ghostash and also I'll

1159
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:10,680
Speaker 2: just check out Mad.

1160
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:14,480
Speaker 1: Boosties worth the price of admission. But here, dude, it's

1161
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 1: so good.

1162
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:19,080
Speaker 2: I can't I'm actually like, I like, I know, I

1163
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 2: recorded it. I was like hosting stuff like that, but

1164
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:23,320
Speaker 2: hearing it all come together, I'm so blown away what

1165
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 2: they did. The kaleidoscope shout out man, guess, shout out

1166
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:29,040
Speaker 2: Oz and everybody over there. Yeah. Yeah, like it moves

1167
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 2: like a movie baby, so easy to listen to. It's

1168
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:33,120
Speaker 2: like a good gateway pod if you want people to

1169
00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:35,320
Speaker 2: dip their toe. So anyway, I'm done. Two in my horn.

1170
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:38,800
Speaker 1: Yep that toe. You can find me on Twitter at

1171
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:42,680
Speaker 1: Jack Underscore. O'Brien. That's gonna do it for us today. Yeah,

1172
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 1: daily's like as a production by Heart Radio. For more

1173
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:47,000
Speaker 1: podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the Heart Radio Wrap

1174
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 1: Apple podcast wherever you listen to your favorite shows. All right,

1175
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 1: that's gonna do it for us this morning, back this

1176
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:54,920
Speaker 1: afternoon to tell you what's trending. We talk to you

1177
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:55,320
Speaker 1: all day.

1178
00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:58,360
Speaker 2: Bye bye bye