1 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: On this episode of Newts World. Queen Elizabeth the Second 2 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 1: passed away on Thursday, September eighth, surrounded by her family 3 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: at her summer home, Balmarle in Scotland. She was ninety 4 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:20,600 Speaker 1: six years old and had been queen for seventy years, 5 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 1: longer than any other sovereign in the history of the 6 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: United Kingdom. Prime Minister Liz Trust was just photographed with 7 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:32,559 Speaker 1: the Queen at balmarl two days before her death, a 8 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: poignant moment when the Queen welcomed the third female Prime 9 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: minister in British history and the fifteenth prime minister received 10 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: by the Queen before the Queen's passing. I originally want 11 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: to talk about Prime Minister Liz Trust and the economic 12 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 1: crisis the United Kingdom is facing. But now we're going 13 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: to talk both about the Queen and about the new 14 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: Prime Minister, and to do that, I am really pleased 15 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: to welcome my guest, Nile Gardner. He is the director 16 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: of the Margaret Thatcher Center for Freedom and Bernard and 17 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: Barbara Thomas Fellow at the Heritage Foundation. Prior to joining 18 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: Heritage in two thousand and two, he was the Foreign 19 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: Policy Researcher Performer British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher. He served 20 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: as an aide to Lady Thatcher from two thousand to 21 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 1: two thousand and two and advised her on a number 22 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: of international policy issues. He's also, I have to say, 23 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: an old friend and we go back almost two decades 24 00:01:30,480 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: and trying to pursue conservative ideas. Now, welcome and thank 25 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 1: you for joining me on News World. It's a great 26 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: pleasure to be here. Thank you very much. You know, 27 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 1: yesterday we heard the sad news of the death of 28 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: Queen Elizabeth. She died on Thursday at the age of 29 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: ninety six. Her reign for seventy years and seven months 30 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 1: starting on February sixth, nineteen fifty two, and make her 31 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 1: the longest reigning British monarch in history. And I must 32 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: say I think she became beloved all around the world. 33 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: There were some amazing photos of her released yesterday, as 34 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 1: a young queen with Prime Minister Winston Churchill and as 35 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: a frail queen meeting the new Prime Minister Liz Trust 36 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: for the first time. It's extraordinary how much she lived 37 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 1: through and witnessed in her seventy years. On the film 38 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: let me starting to ask you your own thoughts and 39 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: your memories having worked with Lady Thatcher, knowing of her 40 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: close relationship with the Queen, what's you're feeling about what 41 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 1: we're now experiencing with Queen Elizabeth. Well, thank you very 42 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 1: much for having on today's show at such a historic moment, 43 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: of course for the United Kingdom, for the British people. 44 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: And this has been an immensely sad time of course 45 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: for the British people, the passing away of Queen Elizabeth 46 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: the Second. This is the end of the Second Elizabethan era, 47 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: and the Queen really such a huge presence in the 48 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: hearts and minds of the British people over the course 49 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: of seven decades. It's almost impossible to imagine the world 50 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: without the Queen. In fact, it's hard myself to really 51 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: imagine such a world, because the Queen has been such 52 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: a huge figure, really and she will be tremendously missed. 53 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 1: And I had the opportunity to meet the Queen. Actually 54 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: it's Lady Thatcher's eightieth birthday party in London, and I 55 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: remember a lady of tremendous warmth, charm, wit and of course, 56 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: needless to say, tremendous dedication and selflessness and I think 57 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: that's what the Queen really embodied, the sense of service 58 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: to the British people, this sense of duty dedication over 59 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 1: the course of an incredible seventy years. He had to 60 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: go back to to the premiership with Winston Churchill for 61 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: the beginning of the reign of Queen Elizabeth a Second, 62 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 1: and it is just staggering to think about just the 63 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: scale of her reign, longer even than that of Queen Victoria, 64 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: and beginning in the ninety fifties, really as the British 65 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: Empire was beginning to end, in fact that India had 66 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: already gained its independence ninety forty seven, but the rest 67 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: of the Empire was to end really in the fifties 68 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: and sixties, so stretching from the end of empire through 69 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: until today the Brexit era of the twenty twenties. And 70 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: this is the time span for Queen Elizabeth's second So 71 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 1: someone who in my view really was the leader of 72 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: the free world for seven decades, she not only I 73 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 1: think touched the hearts and minds of the British people, 74 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: would also the American people as well. Queen is an 75 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 1: immensely popular figure here in the United States, and Gallop 76 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 1: polling actually emphatically proves that Gallup has polled the Queen's 77 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: popularity of the course of many decades, and consistently she's 78 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:34,039 Speaker 1: polled around seventy plus percent support among Americans, which is 79 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: far higher than most of US presidents get. So the 80 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 1: Queen her passing is the end of an era, really, 81 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: and we have a new king now, King Charles the Third, 82 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,600 Speaker 1: but it's a different chapter for the royal family, and 83 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: it is frankly it's heartbreaking, of course to see the 84 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 1: Queen passing away, and also at the same time unimaginable 85 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: to think of a world without her. But that's where 86 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 1: we are now. And you'd you mentioned that she was 87 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 1: in many ways a large figure, which was actually a 88 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 1: tiny large figure, yes, exactly physically, very slight and statue 89 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: and very beautiful as the young lady when she first 90 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 1: became queen. I remember Clifton and I were in Singapore 91 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:15,279 Speaker 1: a few years ago and went to Raffles, the famous 92 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:19,280 Speaker 1: hotel and bar, And when she visited Singapore, she had 93 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 1: stayed at Raffles, and they showed us the room that 94 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 1: had been set aside and never used again that she 95 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: supposedly stayed in. But they pointed out that actually, because 96 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 1: of her size, she swapped with her maid and she 97 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 1: stayed in the smaller bedroom just off the main big bedroom, 98 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: while the maid stayed in the big bedroom because the 99 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: Queen was more comfortable in the smaller room. I just 100 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: thought it was an interesting story about the degree to 101 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,720 Speaker 1: which she was at one level, very practical, yes, and 102 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: also very very humble as well. Actually, in you that 103 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 1: that story amply illustrates them. Now I have to ask you, 104 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 1: Christ and I were very fortunate to have an opportunity 105 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 1: to meet Prince Charles, and I am curious because he 106 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: was very pleasant, very positive. What kind of king do 107 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: you think he will be? That's a great question, in fact, 108 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: asked just watching the news footage from London of the 109 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: King arriving at Buckingham Palace having just traveled from balmorl 110 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: in Scotland, and upon his arrival there was a huge 111 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: crowd of people gathered outside a Buckingham palace, thousands of 112 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: vill and the King, upon disembarking from his car, proceeded 113 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 1: to go on a walk about and in front of 114 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: bucking Parace, shaking the hands of dozens upon dozens of people. Now, 115 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: I was very surprised actually on two fronts. Firstly, the 116 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: security aspect must have made his mind was very nervous, 117 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: I think, and I'm not sure whether this was planned 118 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: to walk about or not, but he simply went out 119 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 1: and greeted hundreds upon hundreds of people shaking their hands. 120 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: And the secondly, I was struck by the spontaneity here, 121 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: because King Charles the Third is not known as a 122 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: sort of spontaneous person. He's not necessarily known as a 123 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 1: particularly sort of warm figure, and certainly the British public 124 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: have not necessarily warmed Charles over the course of many, 125 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,559 Speaker 1: many decades. So I think this new beginning, of course 126 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: for Britain and also for the King himself. And I 127 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: think what I saw today was very impressive. Actually, he 128 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 1: was in Mom's shadow for his entire life. A very 129 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: important factor. I think that with King Charles the Third, 130 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 1: you know, he is going to be leading the monarchy 131 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 1: at a critically important time because after seventy years of 132 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 1: the Queen on the throne and that stability in place 133 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: and the massive presence of the queen, to now have 134 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: a new king generates a little bit of uncertainty actually, 135 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: and I think that many will be concerned about the 136 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 1: monarchy being weakened under Charles. So I hope that Charles 137 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 1: will rise to the occasion, that he will be a 138 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 1: leader of significant strength and fortitude, although at the same 139 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: time he must be wary of getting involved in political 140 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: matters as he has done in the past as Prince 141 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: Charles and as the sovereign. As a monarch, he has 142 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: to remain completely outside of the political frame and this 143 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: will be a challenge for Charles, who has been very 144 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: outspoken on environmental issues, immigration matters. In fact, he's been 145 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: condemned on number of occasions in the past by especially 146 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: conservative MPs who have not been happy with his political interventions. 147 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 1: So it's vital for the monarchy that it does not 148 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: engage in any kind of political talk discussion, because that 149 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: would undermine fundamentally the monarchy. And Charles's reign will be 150 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: incredibly important because there will be those on the left 151 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: who will try to tear down the monarchy. With the 152 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: Queen departing the stage, there are the socialist elements who 153 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 1: don't like the monarchy who want to take it down. Also, 154 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:59,079 Speaker 1: there are campaigns in parts of the world where the 155 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: queen is still head of state, one thinks of plays 156 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: like Australia, New Zealand, Canada results there are campaigns to 157 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:07,559 Speaker 1: remove the king or queen as head of state for 158 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: those countries. So this is a precarious moment for the 159 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: monarchy and a vitally important one. And I hope that 160 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: Prince Charles will be a strong and robust leader who 161 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: will really ensure the long term continuation of the monarchy 162 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: as such a vital institution for the British people. I 163 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: think he can do this actually, but there will be 164 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: a lot of skeptics out there who do not like 165 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:36,839 Speaker 1: King Charles, and they will contrast Charles's personality with the 166 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: hugely popular personality of the queens. So this is going 167 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: to be a challenging a few months and years ahead. 168 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 1: Two thoughts about that, though, One is if I remember 169 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: correctly at least the popular imagery is that she came 170 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 1: very close to endangering the affection for the monarchy. Right 171 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 1: after Guyana's death. There was a fair amount of conversation 172 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: with then Prime Minister Blair to make sure that she 173 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:05,319 Speaker 1: was seen as sufficiently engaged and sufficiently concerned. I don't 174 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 1: know if that's a mythology, but certainly that's been at 175 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 1: least a popular media version. There's actually a lot of 176 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 1: truth in that, and of course there's been a lot 177 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:16,559 Speaker 1: of media portrayal of this and also Hollywood Patrol as well. 178 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:20,079 Speaker 1: But The Queen, which was a very successful film in 179 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: the mid two thousands, actually with Helen Mirren playing the Queen, 180 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: and I think the Queen faced a tremendous challenge actually 181 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: following the death of Princess Diana, and the monarchy really 182 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 1: was under threat at that time. I mean, Diana was 183 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: immensely popular figure and her very untimely tragic death actually 184 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: prompted a lot of attacks on the monarchy, and the 185 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: Queen herself was criticized, and the Queen basically embarked on 186 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: i would say, a slightly different approach in an effort 187 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: to reach out to those who were critical the monarchy, 188 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:59,680 Speaker 1: and I think the Queen was very very successful in 189 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: doing so. And actually the film The Queen, I think 190 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: quite effectively shows this in many respacts. I think it's 191 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: quite accurate, and the Queen really made a concerted effort, 192 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 1: I think, to enhance the wider popularity of the monarchy 193 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 1: among the British people, and she succeeded in doing so 194 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: after an incredibly tragic a moment with Princess Diana's death. 195 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: You know, we were very fortunate. Christ and I were 196 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: on Broadway for Helen Marrin and I think it's called 197 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: the Appointment where they started with Churchill and showed you 198 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 1: each prime minister who had met with her at that time, 199 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: which I think was up to about number eleven or so, 200 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: and of course Olim Mearns an amazing actress, but it 201 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: also gave you a sense of the scale of the 202 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: Queen's relationships and her knowledge. I had an opportunity once 203 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: to chat with Tony Blair about it, and he said 204 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:49,679 Speaker 1: every time he went out to meet with her, which 205 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: was a weekly event, he found himself learning because she 206 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 1: could give him advice from Churchill, er she could give 207 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: him advice from Wilson. I mean that she had been 208 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: through so much that clearly she was his mentor in private, 209 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: and that he found it to be remarkably powerful. Yeah, 210 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: that's a great story. Tony Blair actually was a very 211 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: staunched monarchist as Prime Minister, and he was determined as 212 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:16,559 Speaker 1: Prime Minister I think too basically enhance the overall popularity 213 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 1: of the monarchy with British people. So I think Blair 214 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: played a big part in that. I'm Blair certainly had 215 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: his political faults on both both of the other fronts, 216 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 1: but I think he was somebody who firmly believed in 217 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 1: the greatness of the British monarchy and the tremendous importance 218 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,839 Speaker 1: of it for the British people. You know you're coming 219 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 1: about now, King Charles. I guess he's not technically king, yea. 220 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 1: Does he don't have to be coronated? Does he become 221 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 1: king automatically? Yeah? This is an interesting point because there's 222 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 1: been lots of speculations. He is actually already I believe, 223 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: King Charles the Third. But there will be an official coronation, 224 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,439 Speaker 1: of course to the official sealot, but he is already 225 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: carrying the title King Charles the Third. I was not 226 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: surprised by his ability to reach out to people. Christina, 227 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: when she was the Ambassador of the Vatican, we had 228 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 1: the opportunity at the canonization of John Henry Newman as 229 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 1: a British saint, and Charles was there, and afterwards we 230 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: went to a reception with him. He was remarkably relaxed 231 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: and affable and chatted personally with every person, reminding me 232 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: of sometime we had met when I was speaker. Both 233 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: of us and I were just really oppressed it. Whatever 234 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: his public image at the time, in person, he was 235 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: a much more charming and engaging person. Yeah, and I 236 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 1: think that that's an excellent point the yes from your perspective, 237 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: in contrast to the Hollywood version, What did youth sense 238 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: was Lady Thatcher's relationship with the Queen. I'm glad you 239 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: asked that because I did actually watch the latest season 240 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: of The Crown in fact in fall twice, not least 241 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 1: because I was asked to deliver some media commentary analysis 242 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: of it, and so I watched every episode very very closely, 243 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: especially all the scenes involving Lady Thatcher. Now, I have 244 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: to say that with the Crown, some things they get right, 245 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: some things they get badly wrong, and maybe some of 246 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: that's delivered because they would simply want to create good 247 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: television or good theater here and The Crown does depict 248 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 1: the relationship between Margaret Thatcher and the Queen as tense 249 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: and as the two leaders is very divided. Now my 250 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: understanding is very different. Having work calls closely with Lady 251 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 1: Thatcher had at a later stage, I was able to 252 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 1: gain a lot of insight into who are thinking with 253 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: regard to the Queen and the monarchy. My understanding is 254 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 1: that Lady Thatcher had a far closer partnership with the 255 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: Queen than what you see in the Crown for example, 256 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: where you know there's a lot of division that's shown there. 257 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: And in fact, Lady Thatcher always had a huge admiration 258 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 1: for the Queen, and I think that the Queen had 259 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: a great deal of respect for Margaret Thatcher as the 260 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: first woman Prime Minister. They were the two most powerful 261 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: women in the world in the nineteen eighties, and they were, 262 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: alongside Ronald Reagan, the leaders of the free world, really 263 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: and so sometimes undoubtedly that there were disagreements between the two. 264 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: There may be in some disagreements over the issue of 265 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: sanctions against sal Africa, for example, but in terms of 266 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: the big picture, they were very very closely tied. I 267 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 1: know that Lady Thatcher placed great weight upon the advice 268 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 1: that the Queen always gave her, and the Queen, I think, 269 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: was always very keen to hear what Lady Thatcher had 270 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: to say. And it should be noted that Prince Philip Calls, 271 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: the husband of the Queen, was a huge admirer of 272 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: Margaret Thatcher. He was a real Thatcher right, And so 273 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: I think Prince Philip's view probably carried a lot of 274 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: weight in the royal household. But I was struck by 275 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: also a couple of things. Firstly, that the Queen attended 276 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: Lady Thatcher's eightieth birthday celebration, which I think was back 277 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: in two thousand and five, so I was held at 278 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 1: the Mandarin Oriental. The Queen hardly ever attended birthday celebrations 279 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 1: of politicians. It's very very rare, extremely rare. But the 280 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 1: Queen made a point of attending that celebration, and I 281 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:21,120 Speaker 1: distantly remember having conversation with her and how she swept 282 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 1: in in magisterial fashion into the Mandarin or Dal Hotel. 283 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: And so the Queen made a big exception of Margaret Thatcher. Secondly, 284 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:32,479 Speaker 1: of course, the Queen tended the funeral of Lady Thatcher. 285 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: And again the Queen rarely attended funerals of politicians. You know, No, 286 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: I think I'd be fascinating for Americans to understand. It's 287 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,120 Speaker 1: obvious how the Prime Minister has power, but how does 288 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: somebody like Queen Elizabeth, who's very sophisticated and by that 289 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 1: stage he had been queen for a long time. How 290 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: does she exert leadership and power. That's a great question 291 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: because the monarchy does not engage in political matters or 292 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: party politics. But the Queen throughout her reign was hugely 293 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 1: important as a symbol of British leadership and her role 294 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 1: in terms of advancing the USUK special relationship I think 295 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,679 Speaker 1: was very important because she constantly engaged with Ronald Reagan 296 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: and her friendship with Reagan actually was very close, just 297 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 1: as Margaret Thatcher's partnership with Reagan was extremely powerful. I 298 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: think the friendship between the Queen Ronald Reagan was so important, 299 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: I think on so many levels as illustration of the 300 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 1: strength of the ties that buying the United States and 301 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 1: the United Kingdom that the beating heart of the free 302 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 1: world in so many respects, and so the Queen really 303 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 1: as the symbol of that. There's embodiment of the special relationship. 304 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,360 Speaker 1: I think that was very important on so many levels actually, 305 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: and also sent a message as well to the Russians 306 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,920 Speaker 1: and to the Soviet Union that the United States, United 307 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: Kingdom really together, united leading the free world. Absolutely shoulder 308 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 1: to shoulder really in confronting the might of the then 309 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 1: Soviet Empire. So the Queen was a very important figure 310 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:08,479 Speaker 1: I think in terms of the special relationship. I may 311 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 1: be wrong, but wasn't that the first prime minister funeral 312 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: since Churchill? Yes, I believe that's the case. Yeah, we 313 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,639 Speaker 1: were at that funeral. It was very striking to have 314 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,920 Speaker 1: the royal family show up, absolutely in Newtown. In fact, 315 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: I was also there at the funeral. I think I 316 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: saw you there at the funeral in Saint Paul's and 317 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:31,199 Speaker 1: the Queen's presence was absolutely so powerful at that at 318 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,120 Speaker 1: the funeral. It was a mark of the huge respect 319 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 1: that she had for Margaret Thatcher. I didn't think there's 320 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: any prime minister who gained more, you know, I think 321 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: tremendous respect for admiration from the Queen than Margaret Thatcher. Really, 322 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: So Churchill Margaret Thatcher were I think the two prime 323 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 1: ministers that she really saw as the most consequential and 324 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:53,719 Speaker 1: important of her reign. I mean, you had a unique 325 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:58,679 Speaker 1: position because you actually helped Lady Thatcher right statecraft and 326 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 1: by the way, Henry Christeners a new book out on 327 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 1: leadership which was a really powerful chapter on Lady Thatcher 328 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 1: and her strategies and how she operated. What was it 329 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,160 Speaker 1: like to be able to work close to her? I 330 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,120 Speaker 1: was with her on occasion in the eighties and nineties, 331 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: and our mutual friend Gay Gains was very very close 332 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: to her, and I always learned a lot from Thatcher 333 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 1: whenever she would show up somewhere. But what was it 334 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: like for you to work with her on a regular basis? Yeah, 335 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: I know, thank you very much asking that to that question. 336 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: And as you mentioned, I had the chance to assist 337 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: Lady Thatcher with her final book, Statecraft, which was published 338 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: in two thousand and two, and so I worked for 339 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 1: Lady thansher in private office from two thousand and two. 340 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: Two thousand and two really the final years of her 341 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: public life, when she was still very active giving big speeches. 342 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,199 Speaker 1: She was traveling a lot, she was hosting a lot 343 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 1: of a lot of politicians, and she was working on 344 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: her last book, which became actually the genesis of Brexit. 345 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: In fact, in Statecraft, she called on the United Kingdom 346 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,200 Speaker 1: to negotiate its or renegotiate it. For day she was 347 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 1: the European Union, and she said Britain should leave if 348 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: it didn't get what it wanted, which is exactly what happened. 349 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 1: So she was always decades ahead of her time, and 350 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,439 Speaker 1: that was what Margaret Thatcher was likely. She was always 351 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:13,879 Speaker 1: thinking many many decades ahead of the moment, and she 352 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: really was the architect of Brexit in many respects. And 353 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 1: I found Lady Thatcher to be a leader of tremendous 354 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: conviction courage principle. She's very steadfast, always in her views, 355 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: but at the same time, she was always open to debate, 356 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: and she would welcome a wide range of guests to 357 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,679 Speaker 1: her private office sometimes added the chance to sit in 358 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: on some of those meetings. One of the guests actually that. 359 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: In fact, on the second day that I started working 360 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:45,880 Speaker 1: for Lady Thatcher, Nelson Mandela, actually arrived to see Lady 361 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: Thacher's recovered Tea. And although so many ideologically there are 362 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: differences between the two, they actually got on like a 363 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 1: house on fire as well. Actually it was like old 364 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: friends greeting each other. That was what Margaret that was like. Really. 365 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:03,879 Speaker 1: She enjoyed discussion, debate, exchanging ideas. She didn't always agree 366 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,159 Speaker 1: with everyone she met, but she loved to talk about 367 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: important ideological political matters, and she would be engaging with 368 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 1: both those she fully agreed with another other she didn't, 369 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,879 Speaker 1: and that was her style. She was actually, I have 370 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,880 Speaker 1: to say, a very motherly figure when I worked for her, 371 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: and I was at the time the youngest member for 372 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 1: her staff, and I just remember a leader of tremendous 373 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:33,199 Speaker 1: a kindness and warmth, and she took tremendous care of 374 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: her staff. She treated them as her own family. I 375 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: think the Queen was very much like that as well, 376 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: from what I hear from those close to the Queen, 377 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: and I think they shared a lot of similar personality 378 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 1: traits actually in some respects. And I was struck by 379 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: the fact that Lady Thatcher was just so probably hard working, 380 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 1: and you know, she worked all the time. And I 381 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: worked for her ten years after she left Downing Street, 382 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: but she was still constantly giving speeches. She was always 383 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: on the campaign trail supporting conservative candidates. She was traveling 384 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,439 Speaker 1: the world, and she at a very advanced age. She 385 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: was very hard working, very well informed, always reading books, newspapers, 386 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 1: who was always up to date and everything. I was also, 387 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,119 Speaker 1: I have to say, greatly impressed by the way that 388 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 1: she prepared for speeches. She would even though she was 389 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: one of the best orators of modern times, with vast experience. 390 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,880 Speaker 1: She always practiced and rehearsed her speeches to make sure 391 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:34,360 Speaker 1: that every single line was absolutely right, the delivery spot on, 392 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: and she was somebody who really took the art of 393 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:43,679 Speaker 1: speech making, speech delivery, speech writing incredibly seriously. There are 394 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 1: a lot of politicians today, as you will know, well, 395 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 1: look at the modern world of politics today in nude. 396 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,159 Speaker 1: There are so many political leaders today who don't have 397 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: a grasp of the policy issues, who don't have a 398 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: grasp of the data or the details, who don't prepare 399 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 1: before they give big speeches. One thinks of figures like 400 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,920 Speaker 1: Joe Biden, for example, classic example. You know, he doesn't 401 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 1: seem well prepared at all. I think President Obama was 402 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 1: very much like that as well. But Margat Thatcher, much 403 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 1: like Ronald Reagan, of course, always did the homework, the preparation, 404 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 1: knew the brief, knew the details, poured over the documents, 405 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:23,439 Speaker 1: and prepared immaculate speeches, delivered immaculately. And so this was 406 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: Margat Thatcher's always the highest standards expected from herself and 407 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 1: for those who worked. Of course, it does help to 408 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 1: be as smart as she was. Yes, it's exactly that. 409 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: That was a huge a poltic. There are very few 410 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: politicians who could have gone to Oxford in chemistry at 411 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,120 Speaker 1: a time when women didn't do that, and then rise 412 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: in the Conservative Party that was overwhelmingly male dominant. Yes, 413 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:51,119 Speaker 1: extremely intelligent, extremely smart and also actually I would say 414 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: quite witty as well so and yet very good. Says 415 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,439 Speaker 1: you to your point about her kindness. That's one of 416 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 1: the things that Kissinger emphasized as he said that, however 417 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:05,400 Speaker 1: tough she was in public in fighting for her positions, 418 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: that in private she was remarkably pleasant and kind and 419 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 1: genuinely cared about people. She definitely did, and I found 420 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 1: that working for her. And also she didn't make a 421 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,360 Speaker 1: distinction between the postman delivering the mail, who she would 422 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: often converse with them the doorstep, and some head of 423 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 1: state visiting her, and she treated everybody the same. I 424 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 1: was very struck. A few years back I read a 425 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: very small book by Claire Burlynsky called There Is No 426 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 1: Alternative Why Margaret Thatcher Matters? And I was struck with 427 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:42,360 Speaker 1: the degree to which Claire made the argument the Thatcher 428 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: saw socialism of immoral evil and set out in nineteen 429 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,160 Speaker 1: seventy five as the brand new opposition leader to destroy 430 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:54,400 Speaker 1: it as an acceptable alternative, and by nineteen eighty five 431 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: has succeeded so that no overtly left wing leader has 432 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,120 Speaker 1: become prime minister for years. I mean, that's an astonishing 433 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 1: cultural achievement by a political figure. It is, you know, 434 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 1: I think that Margaret Thatcher really slayed the dragon of socialism, 435 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 1: and that was her life mission, really to defeat what 436 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: she saw as the evil of socialism and to ensure 437 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: that the British people would be free. I just published 438 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 1: a book called Defeating Big Government Socialism, and candidly it's 439 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: modeled on Margaret Thatcher. I mean, it's just my effort 440 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 1: to pick up what she did in Britain and suggest 441 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: that Biden is giving us a chance. She had the 442 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: winder of discontent. We're going to have four years of 443 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 1: discontent under Biden. I see you. I'm so glad you 444 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: mentioned that, because you know, when I look at what's 445 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:44,400 Speaker 1: happening in America today. I've lived in American now twenty years, 446 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: but I really fear for the future of America because 447 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: the United States is going down the path of big 448 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: government socialism. That has been so destructive in the past 449 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 1: in Britain across Europe. The British free themselves of the 450 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 1: shackles of this, but the Americans are now going down 451 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 1: the path thanks to Joe Biden's disastrous policies. And I 452 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: think your book will be a very important wake up call, 453 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:07,960 Speaker 1: I think for America. Say, I very much look forward 454 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,119 Speaker 1: to reading it. Well, listen there, speaking of books, you, 455 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,959 Speaker 1: in two and thirteen author of a book with Stephen 456 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: Thompson called Margaret Thatcher and Leadership Lessons for American Conservatives Today. 457 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 1: Do you think that book may actually be even more 458 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: relevant now than it was in twenty thirteen? I think so. Actually, yes, 459 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 1: from tide to time I reread the book, and you know, 460 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,880 Speaker 1: I have to say, the leadership lessons outligned in that 461 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,440 Speaker 1: book are more relevant today than ever for Americans. That's 462 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: for sure. The Buying era has been just so fundamentally disastrous, 463 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:46,679 Speaker 1: and so this book basically outlines exactly what Margaret Thatcher 464 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: thought of the specter of big government socialism. It outlines 465 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: with leadership principles for American conservatives to follow, and I 466 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 1: think it's even more relevant today than it was when 467 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: the book was put out. Actually, if you can talk 468 00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: to your publisher into republishing it with a new chapter 469 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 1: on the Biden era, I'm going to volunteer to write 470 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: the introduction. That's very kind. I think that's a wonderful idea. 471 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 1: Unlike many American politicians, I think ideas really matter. I mean, 472 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: ideas are at the heart of it, far more than 473 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: raising money or whatever. If I understand it correctly, and 474 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 1: I will confess I haven't done my research yet, but 475 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: Liz Trust actually had ties directly to Thatcher. Well, Liz 476 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 1: Trust actually she of course she was the Foreign Secretary, 477 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: she was the International Trade Secretary. She is a self 478 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 1: described Thatcher right today. I mean she's a big admirer 479 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: of Margat Thatcher. I don't think she ever had direct 480 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 1: connection to day Thatcher, butts she is somebody who has 481 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: aspired to walk in the footsteps of Argreth Thatcher and 482 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 1: her campaign to become the leader of the Conservative Party 483 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 1: was fought based upon thatch Right principles, thatch Right conviction, 484 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: and clearly Liz Trust I think looked very carefully at 485 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: how Margaret Thatcher led the British people over the course 486 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: of three premierships. And also she looked carefully at how 487 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: Margarethacher won elections as well, and Liz Trust ran a 488 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: stunningly good election campaign to be leader of the Conservative Party. 489 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 1: So she learned a lot from Margaret Thatcher. Interesting with 490 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: Liz Trust, she actually started out originally on the left 491 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 1: as a young student and young activist. She started off 492 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: as Liberal Democrat, growing up in a left wing household. 493 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 1: It was only later in life as she switched to 494 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 1: the Conservatives. She also actually originally was not a Brexit supporter, 495 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 1: and in the twenty sixteen referendum, as a minister in 496 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: David Cameron's government, she actually sided with the Remain camp. 497 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 1: Now having said that after the Brexit victory, Trust was 498 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: one of those who very swiftly embrace Brexit and has 499 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 1: become a devout and born again Brexiteer. So Liz Trust 500 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,959 Speaker 1: is somebody who's gone on a real political journey. But 501 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 1: I would describe her today as a very strong Conservative 502 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 1: with very overall mostly very sound policies, and I think 503 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: that she's quite a radical. I was a revolutionary style 504 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: conservative politician in the vein of Margaret Thatcher, which is 505 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: a very good thing because at the end of the day, 506 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 1: Margaret Thatcher changed the course of British history. She saved 507 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 1: Britain from absolute destruction decline, and she restored britain self confidence. 508 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 1: Britain's in a difficult situation at the moment because there's 509 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 1: an economic crisis, energy crisis, storing inflation, big challenges. The 510 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: trade unions are threatened to sink the country again. The 511 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 1: Socialists are on the rise, Lay Party leading them. How 512 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: much of this has been a result of Boris Johnson's 513 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 1: stanishly incompetent leadership. Yeah, so with Boris Johnson, who either 514 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 1: chance to meet on many occasions that I hosted him 515 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 1: at Heritage a number of times. Boris, on the one hand, 516 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 1: a very brilliant man. He delivered Braxits, he won a 517 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: stunning twenty nineteen election victory. He showed tremendous leadership on 518 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: the Ukraine issue, standing up of Ladi Reputin. But on 519 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: the other hand, I mean Boris also oversaw some disastrous 520 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 1: economic policies. Huge amounts government spending, taxes rose, You had 521 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 1: quite left wing environmental policies introduced, and so a lot 522 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 1: of things went wrong with his government. And also Boris 523 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 1: wasn't very interesting the day to day job of running 524 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 1: the country. I think in very good campaign, but he 525 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 1: got bored with the day to day job of being 526 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 1: Prime minister, frankly, and so he really wasn't in four 527 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: controls going on a downing street as we saw the 528 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: party Gate scandals which played a big part in bringing 529 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 1: him down. So Boris has record very very mixed. But 530 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 1: Liz trust Is vowed to really restore Britton's finances, to 531 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: roll back the frontiers of the state, which is what 532 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 1: Margaret Thatcher you always used to say. She's pleasure to 533 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 1: cut taxes, she wants to reduce the overall size of 534 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 1: the government. So in principle what she's saying is very good. Really, 535 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 1: Now it's a matter of putting those in practice and 536 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: she will be held to count on that. But certainly 537 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: what she has said is very encouraging. Thatcher always had 538 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 1: what they call the wets, So people who didn't quite 539 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 1: believe in Thatcherism. How much will Trust be faced with 540 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 1: a significant minority in the Conservative Party who are profoundly 541 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,959 Speaker 1: committed to exactly the wrong policies. Yeah, the wets are 542 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: always around there around in the nineteen eighties when Margaret 543 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: Thatcher was Prime minister. They're still around today actually, although 544 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 1: they're not as powerful as they were before. The wets 545 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: or you know what you call in America wills are 546 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 1: more liberal types or there's still a problem and there 547 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: are those of the Conservative Party who still believe that 548 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: the party should be raising taxes, spending more money, building 549 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 1: up the welfare states, and there's this sort of thing 550 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: that they're all there. You also have some even in 551 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 1: the Conservative Party, I mean some individuals who are wokists 552 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,680 Speaker 1: as well. One of the very good things about Liz 553 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 1: Trust she's very anti woke. She's big on the cultural 554 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 1: war issues and she has vowed to defeat wokeism in Britain. 555 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 1: That's one of the reasons why she won the Conservative 556 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: Party election because Conservative Party members who aren't gerry on 557 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 1: the right, they liked her message. They don't like all 558 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: this left wing culture stuff, and Liz Trust really understood 559 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 1: that well. She's pledged to really slay the dragon of 560 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: Wokism in Britain, something that Margat Thatcher would have done, 561 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 1: of course, had she had to face the work as 562 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 1: well when she was Prime miniss In parliamentary system, you 563 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: have much greater capacity if you have a majority who 564 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 1: actually drive through change on a scale that the American 565 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 1: system slows down dramatically. It's a very good point that 566 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 1: Concertis have a majority of eighty seats and that's one 567 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,680 Speaker 1: of the achievements of Boris Johnson and his legacy, the 568 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 1: Conservators of a massive majority in Parliament, they can easily 569 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 1: pass legislation. When do they have to go to a 570 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 1: general election again? The next generation has to be held. 571 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: I believe by January twenty twenty five she can make 572 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 1: a huge boat at least two years to really get 573 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: Britain back on track, restore the health of the economy, 574 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,759 Speaker 1: cut taxes, etc. So less trust us a lot of time. 575 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,240 Speaker 1: I think she'll be a very good prime minister really, 576 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:26,320 Speaker 1: but there will be those who will try to drag 577 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,360 Speaker 1: her down. And the knives are already out in the 578 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,080 Speaker 1: British media and so on say it's going to be 579 00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 1: tough for her. But I think she's the best person 580 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 1: right now to lead Britain actually among the Conservative Party leadsion. 581 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 1: It's a fascinating moment and it's one of those rare 582 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:44,719 Speaker 1: occasions where you suddenly have somebody show up who is 583 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,200 Speaker 1: the right person. In nineteen seventy five, the Conservative Party 584 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,439 Speaker 1: sort of burned out on moderate leaders who kept trying 585 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: to accommodate the welfare state, and I think, almost in desperation, 586 00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 1: had turned to Margaret Thatcher, who turned out to the 587 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,239 Speaker 1: exactly the right person at exactly the right moment. And 588 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 1: I have a hunch that if Liz Trust can maintain 589 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,160 Speaker 1: her balance and maintain a sense of cheerful warrior than 590 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 1: which is Parrow Thatcher had. For some reason, Thatcher was 591 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:17,560 Speaker 1: really comfortable fighting. And that's very important when you get 592 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:21,319 Speaker 1: involved in this kind of scale of change because inevitably, 593 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: legitimately everybody who you're trying to change is going to 594 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,880 Speaker 1: fight back. Yeah, exactly. Margaret Thatcher was a real fighter, 595 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 1: and she fought in the trenches against the left and 596 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:35,920 Speaker 1: she won. She was somebody who was not afraid to fight, 597 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,920 Speaker 1: stand to her ground. Now, Liz Trust, I think, you know, 598 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 1: has some of those qualities. It remains to be seen 599 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:45,840 Speaker 1: exactly the extent to which she's able to successfully implement 600 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,320 Speaker 1: all of the pledges she has made. But she's tough, 601 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:53,439 Speaker 1: she's resolutes, she's not weak. Need I would say Liz 602 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,879 Speaker 1: Trust is a politician of the Thatcher molds, and that's 603 00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 1: what you need. Right now, because you've got to take 604 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,280 Speaker 1: on the left. You've got to fight and defeat the socialists, 605 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 1: You've got to take on the wocust on the cultural warfront. 606 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:06,520 Speaker 1: You've got to defeat the trade the trade unions are 607 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 1: trying to bankrupt the country, and you have to manage 608 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 1: the transition from a Brisbane. An astonishingly stupid policy of 609 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 1: relying on Russian for energy, I mean, all of Western 610 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 1: Europe has guidened itself into a total mess. Yes, Fortunately 611 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:22,759 Speaker 1: the British have avoided I think the worst of the 612 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 1: European disaster in that sense, because the UK is not 613 00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:31,120 Speaker 1: very dependent on Russian energy, but most of Europe is, 614 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 1: especially the Germans, of French, the Italians for resolve, and 615 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:39,160 Speaker 1: they have become basically over subservient to Moscow. Really are 616 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 1: you look at look at what mccron constantly says about Putin. 617 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,160 Speaker 1: Groveling to Putin is because the French are so dependent 618 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 1: on the Russians. So mccron's position on Putin has been 619 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,480 Speaker 1: absolutely disgrace. He basically has been shining Putin's boots. Really, 620 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,439 Speaker 1: Emmanuel Cross, But that's what happens when you know, when 621 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 1: his country is basically blackmailed by the Russians, compounded by 622 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,759 Speaker 1: an American president whose energy policy is suicidal. Yeah, an 623 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,960 Speaker 1: absolutely disaster, isn't it. I mean, yeah, it's just shockingly bad. 624 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,480 Speaker 1: Biden doesn't learn anything Roles any Europe. I'm not sure 625 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 1: Biden is currently capable of learning anything anyway. So but 626 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,719 Speaker 1: listen now, I want to thank you for joining me. 627 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 1: They're talking about the life and legacy of Queen Elizabeth. 628 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 1: A second about the new King, Charles the Third and 629 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,799 Speaker 1: Britain's new Prime Minister Listrauss. In an addition, I want 630 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,920 Speaker 1: to thank you for reminding all of us of the 631 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:37,040 Speaker 1: extraordinary lessons of Margaret Thatcher's life and her leadership and 632 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,279 Speaker 1: the things the rest of us can learn. We're going 633 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 1: to have your book up on our website so that 634 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,400 Speaker 1: people can get it, and I do encourage you to 635 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 1: chat with your publisher. I think a new edition would 636 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 1: be fabulous and would be very appropriate as we go 637 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: through the next three or four years of turmoil. Thank 638 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 1: you very very much for joining us. It's my pleasure. 639 00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:57,640 Speaker 1: Thank you very much, and you just be in a 640 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:01,200 Speaker 1: fantastic conversation and a real age to be talking to 641 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 1: you today, said thank you very much. Thank you to 642 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:10,040 Speaker 1: my guests, Now Gardner. Newts World is produced by Gingwish 643 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:14,760 Speaker 1: three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Garnsey Slump, 644 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:19,719 Speaker 1: our producer is Rebecca Howe, and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. 645 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,640 Speaker 1: The artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley. 646 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,319 Speaker 1: Special thanks to the team at Gingwidge three sixty. If 647 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,640 Speaker 1: you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you will go to 648 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:33,360 Speaker 1: Apple podcast and both rate us with five stars and 649 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 1: give us a review so others can learn what it's 650 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,319 Speaker 1: all about. Right now, listeners of news World can sign 651 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 1: up for my three free weekly columns at Gingwide three 652 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:47,319 Speaker 1: sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm Newt Gingrich. This is 653 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:47,960 Speaker 1: newts World.