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Speaker 1: Hey, this is any Ay and Samantha and welcome to

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Speaker 1: Stephan Never told you a protection of iHeartRadio, and we

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Speaker 1: are back with part two of our Frozen episodes. Please

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Speaker 1: listen to part one to get more of the kind

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Speaker 1: of background, and this one we're going to be talking

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Speaker 1: about some of the themes and legacies and things like that,

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Speaker 1: because this movie was huge. It was huge, and it

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Speaker 1: had huge impacts and this is the ten year anniversary

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Speaker 1: and everyone is talking about it. And it's very rare

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Speaker 1: that I throw on the towel, defeated about reading every

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Speaker 1: article I want to read before we do an episode,

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Speaker 1: but I did it for this long. No, we'll never

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Speaker 1: get this EPISO so recorded. Yeah, people have a lot

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Speaker 1: of thoughts and we're going to talk about it. So, yes,

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Speaker 1: we are talking about the twenty thirteen Disney animated movie

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Speaker 1: Frozen and the sequel. This is where the spoilers for

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Speaker 1: the sequel will come in. And yeah, I'm just gonna

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Speaker 1: say it's spoiled. I will spoil it. So just to

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Speaker 1: put that out there. I think when people are writing

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Speaker 1: about this movie now, one of the things that a

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Speaker 1: lot of people have been writing about is this was

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Speaker 1: the first quote new wave princess movie where they Disney

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Speaker 1: was trying to pivot away from like, you're not traditional

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Speaker 1: Disney princess story anyway, the heroes, they were the heroes

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Speaker 1: of the story, at least one female character is not

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Speaker 1: romantically involved. And it stirred a lot of conversation then

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Speaker 1: and now. But I have a whole thought about this

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Speaker 1: at the end. But I don't think and especially in

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Speaker 1: like interviews I've read with Jennifer Lee, like, it's not

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Speaker 1: like they were like trying to make a feminist movie.

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Speaker 1: They were just trying to make a movie that wasn't

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Speaker 1: like all about men. And that's kind of the thing.

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Speaker 1: That's kind of what we're talking about when all these

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Speaker 1: other movies came after it. So some of the big

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Speaker 1: themes in Frozen our first sisterhood. As I said in

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Speaker 1: part one, they weren't originally sisters in the first script.

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Speaker 1: They are not sisters in the fairy tale, but they

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Speaker 1: decided to make them sisters to give them a more

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Speaker 1: complex relationship, and a lot of people said that was

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Speaker 1: the key to making it work because a lot of

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Speaker 1: their first scripts, as we talked about in the last one,

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Speaker 1: did not work. Basically, like no one connected to Elsa.

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Speaker 1: No one really was sure what Anna was doing there,

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Speaker 1: so making them sisters helped fix those things, and then

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Speaker 1: making Elsa sympathetic and not the villain helped make the

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Speaker 1: story more compelling. And I do remember when I saw this,

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to talk about this at the end,

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Speaker 1: but like I remember thinking, finally, when the true the

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Speaker 1: act of true love was Anna choosing Elsa over Christoph

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Speaker 1: her maybe true one, true love, because you know, we're

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Speaker 1: kind of set up to believe that movie does a

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Speaker 1: very good job about setting you up to believe like

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Speaker 1: that's it, that's was going to save her life, but

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Speaker 1: she chooses Elsa instead, even though as far as she knows,

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Speaker 1: she'll die, and that's the act of true love. But

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Speaker 1: I remember being like, finally they did it where it's

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Speaker 1: not like dude kissing a woman who might be come

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Speaker 1: with us right to say I will yeah, no knowledge,

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Speaker 1: never have met, possibly no consent. Yeah, Like yeah, I

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Speaker 1: just that's what I That's the main thing I remember thinking,

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, okay, good. And I remember Jennifer Lee

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Speaker 1: said that like one of the things she said was

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Speaker 1: the original story felt too much like you have your

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Speaker 1: evil witch and your young heroine and the two women

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Speaker 1: and they're against each other, and it was like, done,

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Speaker 1: We've done that, Let's do something else, right, And so

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Speaker 1: that was that was a big theme in it was

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Speaker 1: that the bond between Anna and Elsa. Also, I have

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Speaker 1: written a story where the plot twist is exactly this,

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Speaker 1: and it's one of my favorite things I've ever written.

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Speaker 1: One day, I'll read it on here. But I was like, yes, Finity,

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Speaker 1: I do also think there's around this time is when

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Speaker 1: we started seeing I think this was when a lot

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Speaker 1: of criticism was happening about older Disney movies, princess movies,

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Speaker 1: and so Disney was trying to be like, she's not

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Speaker 1: you have a regular princess. Look at her. She's a mess,

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Speaker 1: she likes eating. So they did have a lot of

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Speaker 1: that with Anna. She's clumsy, she's very clumsy princess, which

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Speaker 1: I feel like is a very We've talked about that

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Speaker 1: with like Mary sus or the very tropy kind of Twilight,

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Speaker 1: like the sort of oh, she's quite clumsy, But they do.

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Speaker 1: Elsa and Anna do spend most of the first movie

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Speaker 1: kind of separated, with Elsa feeling like she's dangerous and

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Speaker 1: she'll hurt Anna again, but Anna's always kind of like

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Speaker 1: trying to repair this relationship or maintain this relationship. She's

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Speaker 1: very supportive. When you go to the second one, Elsa

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Speaker 1: relinquishes her crown to Anna, who she believes is a

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Speaker 1: better leader. Elsa and honor sort of like the bridge

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Speaker 1: between nature and civilization. And Elsa chooses to stay with

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Speaker 1: nature and she abdicates the throne, but she's very like, no,

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Speaker 1: you were the better choice for this. You were the

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Speaker 1: one who should be ruling. This is sort of like

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Speaker 1: jumping the gun to something else we're going to talk about,

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Speaker 1: but here's a quote from medium. The last point I

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Speaker 1: want to make about the queer themes on both films

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Speaker 1: is the importance of Anna. Much praise is given to

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Speaker 1: the first film for featuring a central love story between

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Speaker 1: two sisters, which is valid, but it's also important to

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Speaker 1: mention that Anna loves her sister no matter what. Anna

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Speaker 1: was the one hurt when they were children, but she

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Speaker 1: never for a second blamed Elsa or asked her to

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Speaker 1: hide her powers. If Anna loved Elsa despite her ice powers,

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Speaker 1: she probably wouldn't have had the power to save Elsa

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Speaker 1: in the first film, or to do the exact same thing.

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Speaker 1: In the second one, Anna's left for her sister's unconditional

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Speaker 1: in essence true love. So yes, there is a big

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Speaker 1: queer element of these get to in a second, But

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Speaker 1: I guess it kind of brings us to the romance

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Speaker 1: theme of this whole thing, because, like I said, this

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Speaker 1: is a it's an interesting thing when you're watching a

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Speaker 1: movie and it's like making fun of all of the

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Speaker 1: other tropes in Disney movies, but still like doing the thing.

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Speaker 1: But they did question love at first sight because when

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Speaker 1: you I mean the first time I watched it, I

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, yeah, it's just like a Disney movie

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Speaker 1: for her to fall in love immediately, Well, why am

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Speaker 1: I gonna doubt that for a second. But then you

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Speaker 1: have Elsa being like, no, you just met this guy.

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Speaker 1: And then you have Christoph being like, no, you just

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Speaker 1: met the sky.

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Speaker 2: Which, by the way, didn't she just been like one

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Speaker 2: to two days with Christolph as well?

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Speaker 1: Yeah they did, but they did not. They did not

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Speaker 1: get married for many, maybe years, I don't know how

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Speaker 1: long it takes place, but for a while.

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Speaker 2: That's the same thing with on the ones, they're trying

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Speaker 2: to plan their wedding. They keep have splaying in the wedding.

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Speaker 2: Oh really, all the things that Anna has to do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh well, that's what happens in Frozen too, is

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Speaker 1: he keeps trying to propose and she's like, I'm too busy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm too busy. She doesn't know he's trying to propose,

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Speaker 1: but she she's just she's got a lot going had

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Speaker 1: a lot going on. But that is one of the

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Speaker 1: things about Frozen is it's strange because it's like it's

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Speaker 1: meta in a way, but it's also like it's like

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Speaker 1: Disney being meta about a thing that they created, like

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Speaker 1: a problem they created. Right.

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Speaker 2: Well, Mozielle was in another movie, Enchanted, that did the

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Speaker 2: same thing that did that made fun of that thing too.

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen Enchanted. What Yeah, oh I have. I

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Speaker 1: have some fan fiction that I love that is based

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Speaker 1: on Enchanted.

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Speaker 2: So I actually really really liked Enchanted. That was one

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Speaker 2: of the ones that I watch and it's so cheesy,

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Speaker 2: but it's like, oh, oh.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I I'll put it on the list. I've been

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Speaker 1: meaning to watch it to better understand my fan fiction

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Speaker 1: at the very least, which is why I watched Tangled

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Speaker 1: in the first place. Too.

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Speaker 2: Well, like like when we talked about doing my big

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Speaker 2: fat Greek wedding, You're like, oh, help me understand my

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Speaker 2: fan fation it.

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Speaker 1: Will I'm very excited about it, one of my very favorites.

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Speaker 2: I love it.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, But that is one of the things that

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Speaker 1: people talk about a lot with this movie is like,

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Speaker 1: you know, on a Falsham love so quick with Hans

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Speaker 1: Or she thinks she does, and then Christaph but then

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Speaker 1: on the other hand, she'd also like grown up, totally

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Speaker 1: isolated without love or affection really, and then they open

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Speaker 1: the doors and she's just so like, this is it

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Speaker 1: And it felt very It reminded me of like a

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Speaker 1: lot of the conditioning the rest of us have gotten

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Speaker 1: from Disney movies, that this ideal is real and it exists,

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Speaker 1: and that you can get it because she is like

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Speaker 1: immediate immedia. I did find it interesting in terms of

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Speaker 1: a Disney movie that the traditional love interest is the villain,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of men wrote angry pieces about this. Lol.

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Speaker 1: You can find if you want to go a chuckle.

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Speaker 1: They were like, oh, never would he do that? Like really,

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Speaker 1: I know? So I actually hadn't seen Frozen in a while,

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Speaker 1: and I made this outline before I rewatched it last night,

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Speaker 1: but this time the Fixer Upper. I was like, oh, okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna have a lot to say about this because

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Speaker 1: it's essentially like the family's trying to fix you up.

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Speaker 1: They're trying to fix everybody, like the ear Fixer Upper.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, Okay, sure, I'm gonna get real

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Speaker 1: mad about it. It's more just they're kind of like, eh,

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Speaker 1: I thought it was gonna I guess I thought it

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Speaker 1: was gonna be much more you can get in this

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Speaker 1: relationship and fix him. But they actually have a whole

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Speaker 1: line about like you can't.

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Speaker 2: Do that they do. They talk about that completely saying like, no,

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Speaker 2: that's not a thing. You can't change him, right right, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And Christoph in the second one has a whole song

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Speaker 1: about I don't know who I am without you, if

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Speaker 1: I'm not your guy. It's very much the song that

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Speaker 1: usually I feel like the woman would be singing in

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Speaker 1: these things, Like he's he's much more in the role

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Speaker 1: of like I am the love interest who is defined

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Speaker 1: by the person I'm in love with, and it's not

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Speaker 1: painted as a bad thing. He's just confused, like he's like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know who I am but then later he

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Speaker 1: has a line in the where he says, my love

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Speaker 1: is not fragile, and that's when she's talking about I

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Speaker 1: need to put this first and we'll talk about our

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Speaker 1: whole thing later, like I've kind of do this, she

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Speaker 1: I thought was good. Another thing I mentioned in the

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Speaker 1: last one, and I thought this was really interesting is

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Speaker 1: that kids generally prefer Elsa who has powers but no romance,

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Speaker 1: that that's the one that they identify with, that's the

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Speaker 1: one they want to dress as, which I totally get

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Speaker 1: what a lot of people were confused by. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I feel like she has powers. No one gets her.

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Speaker 1: When you're a kid, you're like, ah, yeah, her costume's great,

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Speaker 1: Like she has a whole as the queen. She's the queen.

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Speaker 1: She could control the weather and just like builds a castle.

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Speaker 2: Right, it makes things fun after.

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Speaker 1: Yes, but as a kid, look to me, that makes sense.

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Speaker 1: But I remember when this came out, a bunch of

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Speaker 1: news sources were like, what, why are they going? Why

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Speaker 1: do they like Elsa so much? Why would they choose her?

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Speaker 1: She doesn't have a man, she doesn't have a happily

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Speaker 1: ever after? And I was like, of course they would

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Speaker 1: chose Elsa like of course, but also isn't it kind

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Speaker 1: of strange that we're socializing little girls to want to

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Speaker 1: get married right right away over like, oh I get

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Speaker 1: to control the weather. That's a fun thing.

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Speaker 2: Be the queen, protect things, creations. I mean, she made

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Speaker 2: all off she did.

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Speaker 1: Like, it's just strange to me that they're like, but

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Speaker 1: Anna has the man. I'm like, these are children. Maybe

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Speaker 1: they're not into the right part right now. I don't

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Speaker 1: care about this right Like, it's not like they didn't

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Speaker 1: like her, but yeah, if you're gonna dress up, hell yeah.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to think like what other kids were dressed

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Speaker 2: up as, Like, even for the Little Marmaid, it wasn't

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Speaker 2: necessarily because of the prince. The prince was like secondary.

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Speaker 2: It was the fact that she was a mermaid. You're

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Speaker 2: completely right.

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Speaker 1: I agree.

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Speaker 2: My generation of like I was in middle school, I

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Speaker 2: was in elementary school, sixth grade. I think when all

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Speaker 2: the big movies that Beauty and the Beast. Yes, people

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Speaker 2: really did love Bell and the Beast, but it was

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Speaker 2: more like, you know, you're taming someone type of thing.

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Speaker 2: But I feel like the big success in that movie

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Speaker 2: was the Candlestick and Missus Potts, like it was not

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Speaker 2: necessarily the princess and the Prince, like all these secondary

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Speaker 2: characters really came into play. Aladdin was the big thing,

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Speaker 2: like the actual Aladdin. And then yeah, when I'm thinking

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Speaker 2: about all the Disney movies outside of like Snow White

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Speaker 2: and Cinderella, which were those characters for sure, but then

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Speaker 2: when you get into the new age of like Lion

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Speaker 2: Kean and Little Mermaid, Aladdin, those were not the people

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Speaker 2: who were concentrated on Mulan did not care about the dude,

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Speaker 2: did not care.

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Speaker 1: No, And I think you're totally right, Like I when

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Speaker 1: I look back, it's not I was like, yes, they're

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Speaker 1: finally kissing, Like look at that cool magic thing, right, and.

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Speaker 2: Really like look at that animal. I really wish I

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Speaker 2: had the horse or the dragon, like it was all

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Speaker 2: of those things. Yes, which I mean I've said the

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Speaker 2: most dressed up character in Mulan is the matchmaker, though

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Speaker 2: I really think it's true.

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Speaker 1: I did see a really good cosplay of that recently,

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Speaker 1: so good they had like the Street Yeah, like yeah, oh,

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Speaker 1: it was so good.

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Speaker 2: I'm just saying like maybe it was our generation that

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Speaker 2: really broke that mold. And I'm saying that as a

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Speaker 2: gen X slash millennial like I was eighty that were like, yeah, no,

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Speaker 2: we want these quirky characters. We don't care about these things.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think even in terms of like like

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Speaker 1: looking back at Beauty and the Beast, I liked her dress.

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Speaker 1: It's not that I was like, oh, their dance sing together.

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Speaker 1: I was like, look at her dress Rice, which you know,

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Speaker 1: it's definitely still those messages are there of like oh,

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Speaker 1: get married if this is your thing, but it's not.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that's really the big thing I took away.

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Speaker 1: I was more like, wow, right, look at the magic

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Speaker 1: talking things in their dress.

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Speaker 2: Right. I can't back with Beauty and the Beast, she

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Speaker 2: was getting away from the ideal man who being a punk,

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Speaker 2: but like you know what I mean, Like it wasn't right.

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Speaker 2: She wasn't searching for man. She could have had a man.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, it's true. But it was really funny, honestly

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Speaker 1: to go back to these articles that were so perplexed,

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Speaker 1: like why are they so choosing Alsa when she didn't

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Speaker 1: even get a man of the I feel like it's

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Speaker 1: prett obvious. But Lee said Jennifer Lee, who is like

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Speaker 1: co director Coreator and also, I think this is one

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Speaker 1: of the first Disney movies. I could be totally wrong,

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Speaker 1: but I'm pretty sure this is one of the first

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Speaker 1: Disney movies that ushered in a new age of having

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Speaker 1: the two directors, but it was directed by two people anyway,

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Speaker 1: she said, I think the thing with Anna that was

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Speaker 1: really challenging was I think too many times people think

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Speaker 1: a character flaw means they have a personality disorder or something,

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Speaker 1: and her flaw it really it took repeating over and

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Speaker 1: over again to say, if we really want this ultimately

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Speaker 1: to be about the power of true love, this has

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Speaker 1: to be an analysis of what true love is, and

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Speaker 1: so you have to have a character who wants love. Yes, okay,

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Speaker 1: so I did think about I got all these other

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Speaker 1: ideas when I was doing this outline, because of course

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Speaker 1: one was Brave, which I do want to come back

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Speaker 1: and talk about. But when Brave came out, Brave ends

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Speaker 1: with a sixteen year old girl heaven forbid not getting

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Speaker 1: engaged and getting married, and everyone was like, oh God,

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Speaker 1: she's gay because she didn't end up with a man

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Speaker 1: at the end, and it was a huge conversation. I

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Speaker 1: remember this, but you mentioned in the last one that

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Speaker 1: there's a storyline about Brave in the show, when Areda comes.

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Speaker 2: Into play, Meredith comes into play. The Helm is a

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Speaker 2: part of it. There's a battle between what would be

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Speaker 2: king Author and her essentially, and then she is being

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Speaker 2: controlled by the villains to teach someone else to be brave. Oh,

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Speaker 2: and then we have car and then her father passing

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Speaker 2: away and her watching and like all these things. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and her becoming her, protecting her brothers and protecting her kingdom.

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Speaker 2: Mm hmm, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: I definitely gotta watch this. Yeah, Brave makes me cry

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Speaker 1: every time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a good little end scene where she

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Speaker 2: has a chat with him because there's a potion that

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Speaker 2: you can talk with the dead. Yes, oh, well that

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Speaker 2: happens in that once. Yes, I know nothing about this movie.

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Speaker 2: I know nothing about the actual movies. I just know

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Speaker 2: what's on because thank God, I guess, for better or

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Speaker 2: for worse, Disney owns ABC, so they had all the

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Speaker 2: rights to get every one of these characters without.

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Speaker 1: Yes, well, if I had a different podcast, we would

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Speaker 1: talk about the Pixar multiverse theory. But in Brave, she

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Speaker 1: goes to see this witch who can make these potions.

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Speaker 1: But she's supposed to be. The Witch is the child

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Speaker 1: Boo from Monsters Inc. Who is desperately trying to find

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Speaker 1: a way back to meet the monsters again, and she

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Speaker 1: starts the whole thing.

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Speaker 2: Ah yeah, Now, I will say I think my favorite

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Speaker 2: Pixar movie outside of Mulan is Monsters Inc. Two of

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Speaker 2: them are my I will watch, oh and Gratitude. He

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Speaker 2: is my go A two comfort sad movie.

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Speaker 1: Yes, every time you say you're watching Gratitude, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: are you okay?

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Speaker 2: That's one of my partner walts And he's like, oh no,

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Speaker 2: what's wrong.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it could be fine, You're comfort movie doesn't necessarily.

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Speaker 2: Alps me sleep sometimes, but I just want that. But yeah.

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Speaker 2: And then one time when I was on like not

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Speaker 2: a good night, he turned it on for me and

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Speaker 2: I was like, no, why would they so sad?

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Speaker 1: Sometimes you can't handle it, I hear you.

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Speaker 2: I Yes, of all the movies, those three are probably

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Speaker 2: my top. Like Gratitude is my comfort Monsters Incause I

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Speaker 2: think it is sentimental and really sweet and it does

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Speaker 2: make me a little sad. And then Mulan gives me like, oh, representation,

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Speaker 2: that's the all I had, has nothing to do with me.

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Speaker 2: But I still love it.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, well, oh gosh, one day I'll probably regale

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Speaker 1: you about how all these babies are supposedly connected. Also, yes,

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Speaker 1: we're using Disney Pictar kind of haphazardly, but don't don't add.

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Speaker 2: As you know, it's all right, right, don't say that.

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Speaker 2: As well as the fact that the things we're talking

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Speaker 2: about our old school stuff. Yes, old school stuff except

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Speaker 2: for the new one. If there's a new one and

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Speaker 2: I'm not watching it, so I'm not going to.

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Speaker 1: No, I don't think I like the panic I just

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Speaker 1: saw you.

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Speaker 2: No, I don't want to watch it. I don't like

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Speaker 2: sequels to cartoons.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Sorry, Well, Animation has just said that they're going

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Speaker 1: to stop doing it because usually they're not successful.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, didn't they do? Like ten of them from Whatser's

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Speaker 2: Seeing and then ten of them for Aladdin. You're like,

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Speaker 2: just stop stop.

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Speaker 1: I am I've seen a lot of them, but Frozen

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Speaker 1: two was a success, like monetarily Okay, but that does

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Speaker 1: bring me kind of to our next point is. Yes,

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Speaker 1: when these movies came out, there was a discussion about

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Speaker 1: the queer aspect of them, especially around Elsa, because Elsa

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Speaker 1: was not explicitly gay, but she wasn't explicitly straight, and

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Speaker 1: it calls all kinds of headlines, plenty of ultra conservative

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Speaker 1: ones that claim this movie was indoctrinating their kids, and like, again,

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Speaker 1: she just didn't end dealt with anybody. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what you're talking about. And there's a lot of li

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's all up for interpretation, but there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of lines, especially like when the second one came

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Speaker 1: out where people were like, okay, wait, Hans has this

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Speaker 1: line in the first one where he says no one

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Speaker 1: was getting anywhere with Elsa, where he was talking about

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Speaker 1: trying to get the throne, like marry her and get

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Speaker 1: the throne, and he says, no one was getting anywhere

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Speaker 1: with Elsa. Some people do think that maybe she's ACE,

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Speaker 1: or maybe she's Aero, or maybe she's Aero ACE, but

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Speaker 1: nothing has been confirmed, and she's just mostly like not sexual,

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Speaker 1: which is different from Ace.

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Speaker 2: Right. See, I just assume she's going through some that's

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Speaker 2: the least of things is on her mind. Me, I

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Speaker 2: don't understand we had to read into it. Why do

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Speaker 2: we have to assign our o thing?

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Speaker 1: Let her just be me? I agree.

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Speaker 2: I will say again with my interjections about once. They

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Speaker 2: also don't try to find her man in that it's

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Speaker 2: about sister. Try to find her sister.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, which is what the first one was about. Like

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Speaker 1: it was their relationship mainly, and that was a big

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Speaker 1: deal at the time. Unfortunately that it wasn't a love triangle,

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Speaker 1: like Elsa and Anna aren't fighting over a guy, which

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Speaker 1: is how it normally would be. Some people do point

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Speaker 1: out she was Elsa was literally closeted, as in she

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Speaker 1: was hiding in the closet her room most of the movie.

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Speaker 1: Here's a quote from box in particular. San Diego State

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Speaker 1: University professor Angel Daniel Matos, who studies the intersection of

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Speaker 1: queer narratives and children's literature, whote a January twenty fourteen

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Speaker 1: article in which he argued that considering Alsa via the

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Speaker 1: lens of queer literary theory made a lot of sense

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Speaker 1: Mato's trip. Queen Alsa is approached by some viewers as

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Speaker 1: a queer or gay character, not only because she doesn't

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Speaker 1: engage in a romantic relationship in the film, but also

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Speaker 1: because she is forced by her parents to suppress and

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Speaker 1: hide the powers that she is born with. Although the

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Speaker 1: movie implies that her parents desperately try to conceal ELS's

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Speaker 1: powers because of the danger that they impose to herself

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Speaker 1: and to others. This does not justify the degree to

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Speaker 1: which they prevent Elsa from having any human contact whatsoever. Furthermore,

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Speaker 1: the fact that Elsa's parents views oppression and isolation as

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Speaker 1: solutions further emphasizes notions of the infamous queer closet. So Elsa,

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Speaker 1: because she was at one time meant to be Frozen's villain,

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Speaker 1: exhibits lots of traits that we associate with LGBTQ characters,

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Speaker 1: rightly or wrongly. She isolates herself from society. She has strange,

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Speaker 1: barely understood powers. She lashes out of those who would

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Speaker 1: drag her back to the mainstream. She's kind of like

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Speaker 1: one of the X Men, and the X Men have

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Speaker 1: always welcomed queer readings as well. Critically, Elsa isn't the

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Speaker 1: movie's villain. Her love for Anna, and Anna's love for

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Speaker 1: her is what saves the day by the end of

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Speaker 1: the film, and she learns to revel in her powers

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Speaker 1: once she discovers that she can control them through love.

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Speaker 1: All Elsa fears that makes her different, and she's encouraged

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Speaker 1: to do so by her parents, but she ultimately embraces

431
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 1: that difference and it's happier for having done so. A

432
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 1: queer reading of the character all but suggests itself. Lots

433
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,159
Speaker 1: of fans thought so too, and in twenty sixteen, a

434
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 1: hashtag give els A girlfriend briefly became a Twitter sensation

435
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,120
Speaker 1: s so I remember, yes, I remember all of this.

436
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,640
Speaker 1: There was even an sml skits about it where let

437
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 1: it go the words we're all changed to we all know,

438
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 1: we all know about Elsa being gay, yes, which does

439
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 1: bring us to let it go the song, because that

440
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:51,919
Speaker 1: song is part of what changed the whole trajectory of

441
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: the movie in Elsa's character. Alligically, Kristen Bell was the

442
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 1: one that was like, it needs to be a power ballad.

443
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,200
Speaker 1: Here's the title, because it's all about like selfation, empowerment,

444
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 1: self acceptance. I don't care what they're going to say.

445
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 1: She has those lines about like concealed, don't feel, but

446
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,439
Speaker 1: now they know. And as she's singing this, she is

447
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 1: having a transformation. She was taking her here, Now she's

448
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: staying off the crowd, she's changing her dress, she's building

449
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: a castle. It's a very like transformative moment. I did

450
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 1: read a cool quote about how it did become kind

451
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: of a queer anthem, really, but I read a quote

452
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 1: about it about like this is like the Gits song

453
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,479
Speaker 1: no One's going to Accept Me, and then the second

454
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 1: one that song is like the but maybe I can

455
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 1: love me anyway. But anyway, here's a quote from medium.

456
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,959
Speaker 1: While let It Go is notable for many things, the

457
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 1: Oscar Winner is the most popular song Disney has released

458
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: since its nineties renaissance period. It is almost, by first glance,

459
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 1: a coming out anthem, whether you see it as Elsa

460
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: coming out as lesbian or as a mutant. Elsa's renouncing

461
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 1: a life of hiding and pledging herself to being open

462
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: about the things that made her different. If the plot

463
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 1: of the first movie is looked at through the lens

464
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: of a gay allegory, Elsa realizes as a child that

465
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: she is different. Is traumatized when she realizes that her

466
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,160
Speaker 1: differences could be harmful to her family, and she shuts

467
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: herself off from them while committing to hiding this part

468
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 1: of herself forever. She loses control in a moment of

469
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 1: extreme pressure, accidentally outs herself and runs away, deciding that

470
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,120
Speaker 1: it's better for her to be alone forever. Anna, her

471
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: accepting sister, ultimately saves her with her true love, and

472
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: Elsa rejoins society, having accepted that her powers are here

473
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 1: to stay.

474
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 2: Remember that.

475
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 1: But then in the second one, Yeah, they there's like

476
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: this song that else's hearing that's calling her away, and

477
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 1: she keeps trying to ignore it. She keeps trying to

478
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 1: hide it, and eventually she does answer it. She does

479
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,239
Speaker 1: follow it. But in that song she's talking about like

480
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: what she's been waiting for her whole life. The song

481
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: is called show yourself, you don't have to hide, Step

482
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 1: into your power, and then at the end, Elsa cries.

483
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: She starts crying when she sings I am found So

484
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: like I said, this scene is sort of the if

485
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 1: this athletic go is the all right fine, then this

486
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: one is the like, okay, I can love myself. So

487
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 1: here is another quote from Medium. While again one could

488
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 1: look at the end of Frozen as she's happy now,

489
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: Frozen two shows that there's still lingering doubt and anxiety

490
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: that Elsa feels sure everyone knows now, but she's still

491
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: afraid that she's going to screw something up. She tolerates

492
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: her powers, she doesn't appreciate them. She likes herself, but

493
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: she doesn't love herself because she still hung up on

494
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 1: that unusual part of her biology. Okay, so yeah, and

495
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: the second one, she is hearing this call. It is

496
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: a woman who's sing to her, like calling her to

497
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: the great unknown. She meets a young woman in the

498
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: forest after answering the call named honey Maren, and they

499
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 1: share a conversation that is very similar to the one

500
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: that Christoph and Anna sharing the first one. It's the

501
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: same scene, it's kind of the same vibe, but then

502
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: Honey Maren is like not really there again until the

503
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: end when Elsa because Elsa kind of runs away, but

504
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: Elsa does choose to stay in the enchanted forest at

505
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: the end. But yeah, I mean, also like to your point,

506
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 1: it could be there's no romance, but also yeah, Ace,

507
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: people do exist. And also a reminder because I saw

508
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 1: some headlines where I was like Ace being Ace is gay,

509
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: Like she's a She's still gay.

510
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 2: I mean, to this whole point, like I can see

511
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 2: for those who are just trying to find a representation

512
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 2: like this level of like needing this, and that's understandable.

513
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 2: And I get that too, And like yeah, though, if

514
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 2: you really wasn't to that, maybe could and that's amazing.

515
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 2: If that works for you then and that's exactly what

516
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 2: it is for you, you do that. But also if

517
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 2: they're paralleling the Anna and Christoph line, I mean, that

518
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 2: would make reason to be like, oh, here we go,

519
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 2: this is the love plot, right. Yeah.

520
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: No, I don't want to make it sound like I

521
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: don't because I totally get I absolutely get it. I

522
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 1: have done this with less where I'm like they're definitely

523
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: together or if it's just definitely gay. I'm not trying

524
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: to make it sound like that at all.

525
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 2: I think.

526
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's a question of more representation

527
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: if there's so little you're looking for, like anything, and

528
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: it's true, like I don't think I can totally see

529
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 1: the quick covering of it. Absolutely. I was watching Let

530
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: It Go See last night.

531
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 2: I was like, yes, as I said, like, it felt

532
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 2: like it's a very very very very very very white

533
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 2: white white movie. Like everybody's very white. Yeah, let's just

534
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 2: very clear. I didn't see any guess that was of

535
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 2: any except for the one dude that may have been Latin,

536
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 2: Latino or Hispanic, I don't know, but I was like yeah,

537
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 2: this is and get having that music and then like

538
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 2: the climax being very much like this sounds like indigenous music.

539
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 2: What is happening? What is happening? So like finding trying

540
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 2: to find representation in that movie is nice. I get that.

541
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: Yes, well, we're gonna talk about that more in a second. Yeah,

542
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: because the second one as a whole plot about displacing,

543
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: colonizing Native people's That's like the whole thing is when

544
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 1: she gets to the enchanted forest, they learn that their

545
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 1: grandfather had betrayed the indigenous people. Their mother was indigenous,

546
00:31:55,800 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 1: and they have to kind of decide what they're going

547
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: to do about it. But that is the whole plot.

548
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: Oh well, I didn't know that. I'm glad they found

549
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 1: I guess. I guess. But it was folk. I mean

550
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: es now made fun of that too, because they're like, yeah,

551
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: there's black people in the second one, but like it's

552
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: rural Norway, and now we're kind of like, how did

553
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 1: they get there? It's sort of both.

554
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 2: What's happening?

555
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: Where are we going?

556
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 2: Where are we going? With us?

557
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: Yes, here's a quote from Box. Disney keeps coming back

558
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 1: to the idea of metaphorically dissecting the unsavory aspects of

559
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: American history in order to move forward as a nation,

560
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: But it almost never has the guts to actually suggest

561
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 1: anything needs to change to up end the current social

562
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,959
Speaker 1: order because the current social order place is Disney at

563
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 1: the top of the urine box off nearly every year.

564
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: A world where we really got serious about writing the

565
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 1: wrongs of colonialism would be a world that might also

566
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 1: start to undercut capitalism. And if you're Disney, can't have that. Now.

567
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 1: This is something I also want to come back and

568
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 1: talk about. Because Frozen did make it paved the way

569
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: for it was so successful. It paved the way for

570
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: a lot of movies like Incanto, Turning Red, and they

571
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 1: were all successful. But recently with things like The Marvels

572
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: and Wish, there's been a lot of like talking about it,

573
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: some of it helpful and some of it not. I

574
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 1: have a lot of thoughts about it. But it is

575
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 1: interesting to me that this movie was so successful and

576
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: they're like, Okay, let's do more, and then like the

577
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: second one isn't as successful, to like never again. But

578
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 1: that's for another podcast. Also, I read a lot of

579
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: stuff about why they haven't made elsa canonically queer and

580
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 1: a lot of it is what we've talked about before,

581
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:16,800
Speaker 1: where in certain countries it would get the movie banns

582
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 1: and Disney is a company that is all about money.

583
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: So anyway, another big thing in here is trauma. You

584
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:29,359
Speaker 1: got the losing parents. What you got to have if

585
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 1: you're in a Disney movie, a parent has to die.

586
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 1: It has to die. Yeah, they have to die. The

587
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: second one does imply that they died. Looking for answers

588
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:41,359
Speaker 1: about Elsa like you talked about in once another conversation too.

589
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 1: But this also mirrors other things I've been observing in

590
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 1: children's media lately, her Elsa being afraid of her powers

591
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 1: and herself and having trauma of that. She does the

592
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,479
Speaker 1: reason I mentioned like in passing that, like she lets

593
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,040
Speaker 1: her hair down when she's singing let it Go, but

594
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: it's still in the braid. In the second one she

595
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:05,879
Speaker 1: takes it out the great she really, Yes she does,

596
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 1: Yeah she does. But she does have those little steps,

597
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: like she takes off her gloves using her powers. And

598
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:13,319
Speaker 1: there is a theme of mental health with Elsa that

599
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 1: I read a lot of articles about about people resonating

600
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 1: with that. I resonated with the open closed door metaphor

601
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 1: I also resonated with as unhealthy as this may be,

602
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,320
Speaker 1: when she's she says, I'm alone and I am free

603
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 1: because having all those expectations of how you should be

604
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:33,439
Speaker 1: and how you should act, and then when you're alone,

605
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 1: you're like, hmm, I'm going to do whatever I want, right,

606
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 1: But yeah, just briefly to end on the legacy of this,

607
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 1: it did. It was a catalyst for Disney, specifically of

608
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:50,399
Speaker 1: moving away from male oriented stories and making way four

609
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 1: non romance stories in children's movies Moana and Conto Turning Red,

610
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 1: which I do want to come back and talk about.

611
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 1: Mowana for sure was very outspoken about how the marketing

612
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: barely featured Elsa and wasn't very woman centric. She was

613
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: very outspoken about being a woman director and like pushing

614
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: for these things. But that they kind of were like, well,

615
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 1: we wanted to keep Elsa's secret, and I was like,

616
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: but Elsa's sort of the whole.

617
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 2: World she was.

618
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,359
Speaker 1: It's the same thing they did with Star Wars. Were like, rave,

619
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 1: we wanted to keep her secret. I was like, why,

620
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 1: she's like the main character. And yes, it was still

621
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 1: centered around thin, white, able, rich women. So there's that

622
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,760
Speaker 1: I will say It was very interesting how many people

623
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 1: came out and criticized Frozen for things I would say

624
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:44,840
Speaker 1: they were very accepting of and male led based movies,

625
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:47,359
Speaker 1: some in good faith, like someone was like, yes, yes, yes,

626
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 1: some not in good faith at all. There was a

627
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: much shared article about how Frozen was false feminism, and

628
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:55,919
Speaker 1: I read it, and there were a lot of counter

629
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 1: articles about it, and I read a bunch of them,

630
00:36:58,200 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: and what I'll say was, it sounds like they were

631
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,720
Speaker 1: both saying the same thing that Disney could do more. Honestly,

632
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,879
Speaker 1: that's exactly what. It sounds like a lot of them

633
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 1: were doing that thing that makes me a little uncomfortable,

634
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:13,359
Speaker 1: where they were almost unfeminist in their feminism, like kind

635
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: of shaming mental health. At one point, I was like, oh, no,

636
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,359
Speaker 1: I'm not I don't like this, And here's like maybe

637
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 1: my hot take. I don't think it really is, but maybe.

638
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: But it feels like everyone had a lot more to

639
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 1: say about the feminism or not of this movie because

640
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:29,959
Speaker 1: it had two female leads and one of them didn't

641
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 1: end up with a man. When I feel like that

642
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 1: should just be normalized and not necessarily some feminist statement

643
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: like I want it to be feminist. I hope it is.

644
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 1: I hope it's intersectional, but I don't think that that

645
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 1: in itself should be like what right, Like when I

646
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:49,800
Speaker 1: saw it, I don't remember thinking like, wow, so feminist.

647
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 1: I remember thinking like, oh god, they finally did something different,

648
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 1: like oh I like this song or what like. I

649
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,439
Speaker 1: don't remember, and I don't think it has to be that,

650
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: like I just and I did. Like I said, I

651
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 1: part of the premise does rely on us as an

652
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 1: audience buying into the Disney fairy tale of true love

653
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 1: and true Love's first kiss and a very head or

654
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 1: nervous sense because they know that that's what all the

655
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 1: movies they've made have done, and this was different. So

656
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 1: I just like a lot of the stuff I did

657
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 1: read so much about this, but a lot of it

658
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: I just felt like, you know, maybe it was just

659
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 1: a movie about two sisters and it's not like this,

660
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:37,760
Speaker 1: but you're making it into this huge thing, right, yes,

661
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 1: exactly exactly, and that shouldn't be feminist. Like I said,

662
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 1: I want it to be a feminist thing if I'm

663
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 1: enjoying it, but that in itself shouldn't.

664
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,800
Speaker 2: Be like WHOA Broke them?

665
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,879
Speaker 1: Exactly? And it was a popular movie. It makes sense.

666
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 1: I do this all the time if you listen to

667
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 1: the show, you know, I dig into every the minutia

668
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 1: of what something means when perhaps it wasn't meant to

669
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: do that. So I'm not dismissing it, and I think

670
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 1: the conversation is actually it's really great and interesting, and

671
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 1: I don't want to underplay how important this movie was.

672
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 1: It was a big shift in the conversation that it

673
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 1: is now part of. It's really interesting reading about it

674
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:23,320
Speaker 1: ten years later.

675
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:23,959
Speaker 2: Right.

676
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. Also, if you just want one final note about

677
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 1: how big this was, there are articles written, multiple articles

678
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: about climate change and frozen.

679
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,720
Speaker 2: I mean, that makes sense, but it's.

680
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:44,839
Speaker 1: Not about what you think it's about. Really, it's very,

681
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:50,840
Speaker 1: very in depth. But yeah, people had a lot to

682
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,439
Speaker 1: say they were successful. There's going to be a three

683
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 1: and four. They're supposed to be one for every season.

684
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,720
Speaker 2: Oh really, Yes, it just all comes back to being winner.

685
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 2: I know.

686
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 1: I'm like, what is the first Is this first one summer?

687
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 1: I know the second one's fall.

688
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess the first one had to be summer,

689
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 2: because that's what I said summer.

690
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we've got winter and spring. I don't know

691
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 1: when the Doubles.

692
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 2: You don't know she's having trouble. Maybe that's the.

693
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,320
Speaker 1: Thing Winter Doubles. You don't know she's having.

694
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 2: Trouble all day.

695
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: You happened rhyming a last day. I'm impressed. That is

696
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:24,839
Speaker 1: a joke that a lot of people made that made

697
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 1: me kind of uncomfortable. But I get it was that

698
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 1: by the time Frozen three comes out, the only thing

699
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: that would be Frozen or Elsa's.

700
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 2: Eggs what I thought, But damn.

701
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,360
Speaker 1: Yeah for real, But anyway, I did. I mean, I

702
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 1: can't believe how many things I had to say about Frozen,

703
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:40,720
Speaker 1: because again.

704
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 2: I sure did.

705
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 1: I've only seen it, except I know some of you

706
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 1: are like seven times. But to me, I watched like

707
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 1: a lot of movies in the background all the time.

708
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 1: But there was just so much written about it. There

709
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: was so much rattin about it. I do want to

710
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,760
Speaker 1: come back and do Malana Elemental, which I just watched

711
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 1: Tangled in Kanto, which we kind of talked about but

712
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:04,359
Speaker 1: haven't talked about.

713
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 2: Oh we didn't. I thought we did.

714
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 1: No, we talked about the cat song. We talked about

715
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:12,719
Speaker 1: the song, okay, yeah, and I think we talked about

716
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: it in turning Red because they're both kind of about

717
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 1: inner generational trauma.

718
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 2: Family.

719
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, but we're gonna have to spread it out otherwise.

720
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 1: I don't know what we.

721
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 2: Should talk about the evolution of the cartoons and have

722
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:30,359
Speaker 2: they drastically changed, because you look at today like uh

723
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:34,800
Speaker 2: in Conto and Turning Red compared to Frozen, they're so different.

724
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: Yes, I actually did find a really interesting article about

725
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 1: women in animation at Disney and it was with the

726
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 1: timeline of Frozen. So yes, absolutely, and I do want

727
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 1: to watch once. You've got me really interested?

728
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 2: Neither one?

729
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 1: Okay, but wow. All right, this is the end of

730
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 1: our two party Shaft Cat Sound Frozen. If you have

731
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 1: any thoughts about this, any pictures of cosplay, because I

732
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: know people love the cosplay this, please send them our way.

733
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 1: You can email us at Stuff Media, Momstuff at iHeartMedia

734
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:05,839
Speaker 1: dot com. You can find us on Twitter at mom

735
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 1: Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff. I've

736
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 1: never told you. We have a tea public store and

737
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:12,879
Speaker 1: we have a book you can get wherever you get

738
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 1: your books. Thanks as always to our super producer Christina,

739
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 1: our executive producer Maya, and our contributor Joey thank you

740
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening stuff I Never told

741
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:23,239
Speaker 1: you the production of iHeartRadio. For more podcast from my

742
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: heart Radio, you can check out the iHeart Radio app,

743
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or whef you listen to your favorite show,