Speaker 1: Warning. Today's episode contains spoilers for various MCU films that
Speaker 1: feature the Black Panther, assorted Wakandan characters and nay More
Speaker 1: and assorted Atlantean characters. Be warned. Hello, my name is Jason,
Speaker 1: get up to you and I'm Rosey Night and welcome
Speaker 1: back to Xtra Vision of the podcast where we dive
Speaker 1: deep into your favorite shows, movies, and pop culture. Coming
Speaker 1: to you from iHeart, where we're bringing you three episodes
Speaker 1: a week.
Speaker 2: Saturday plus News.
Speaker 3: Today, it's impending Doomsday and we are checking in with
Speaker 3: the Wakandan corner of the MCU to highlight Shuri and
Speaker 3: Baku and Namo leading up to that clash with Doom
Speaker 3: in the upcoming movie Avengers Doomsday.
Speaker 1: But first, let's recap all of the storylines that intersect
Speaker 1: with Wakanda, the Black Panther, and nay More. First of all,
Speaker 1: we start with Captain America Civil War, the introduction, the
Speaker 1: introduction of T'Challa. He is introduced at the Vienna un
Speaker 1: signing of the now defunct Sokoa Accords. God alongside is
Speaker 1: his is soon to be late father. In the film's
Speaker 1: King Tachaka, a bomb kills ta chaka Bucky Barms is
Speaker 1: framed for the crime. T'Challa don's a Black Panther suit,
Speaker 1: goes after Bucky. He'd we see him in action at
Speaker 1: the big fight at the airport in Germany. And then
Speaker 1: later on T'Challa apprehends Zemo rather than kill him and
Speaker 1: grants Bucky asylum and Wakanda, so they made they make
Speaker 1: up as bros.
Speaker 4: They make up as bros, and then you know, you
Speaker 4: get the White Wolf of Wakanda. Yeah, very silly.
Speaker 1: Then we go to Black Panther twenty eighteen. Oh, a
Speaker 1: classic Ryan Cooplan. We love him. Here's a take. Is
Speaker 1: this the best movie original movie song soundtrack? Oh?
Speaker 4: In the Lamb see you definitely.
Speaker 1: But like in the last I don't know how long
Speaker 1: mm hm.
Speaker 3: Honestly, ironically, like the they also came through with that
Speaker 3: Shang Chi soundtrack that was really good. It's like, I
Speaker 3: think you've got to have a director who has a
Speaker 3: vision who also is like, has an interest in great music,
Speaker 3: because I would say that Destin and Ryan probably both
Speaker 3: have that in common and drove a lot of that vision.
Speaker 1: In Black Panther, T'Challa is challenged for the kingship of
Speaker 1: Wakanda by Eric Kilmonger. He is thrown off the falls
Speaker 1: in ritual combat. Kill Monger takes over and t'chala Is
Speaker 1: is saved by the combined efforts of his allies, including
Speaker 1: Baku and Shuri.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, and good old Nokia we love.
Speaker 1: Huh, good old Nokia, Good olda Koye. Avengers Infinity War
Speaker 1: the final battle between Well, the second to the penultimate
Speaker 1: final battle between Well. I guess really like they fight
Speaker 1: a different Thanos, right, So it's like it's actually very
Speaker 1: complex when you think about it.
Speaker 4: Than you.
Speaker 3: You still have questions to answer two different battles is
Speaker 3: because this that was actually has his head chopped off.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it is kind of the final battle against
Speaker 1: that Fanos because then they fight.
Speaker 4: A number one.
Speaker 1: They've like that they've not be no Saturdays, right, So
Speaker 1: Santos is assembling the Infinity Stones and the Avengers take
Speaker 1: Vision to Wakanda because that's the only place where there's
Speaker 1: like technology exists to separate Vision from the Infinity Stone in.
Speaker 4: His head without killing him, hopefully.
Speaker 1: Without killing him, and we get this really absolutely incredible
Speaker 1: one of the best action scenes of the MCU.
Speaker 4: With some of the funniest dialogue too.
Speaker 3: That really like I love the moment where we have
Speaker 3: Mbaku and Akoa and they I think it's them when
Speaker 3: they see Scarlet Witch.
Speaker 4: And they're like, why didn't they send her first? Like
Speaker 4: why the fuck didn't they send the Witch?
Speaker 3: Like she is no strangers fucking decimating, it's aliens, Like
Speaker 3: it's you know what, it's up there with the first
Speaker 3: Avengers for just how right they get the characters coming
Speaker 3: into contact with each other for the first time, these
Speaker 3: two sides of the MCU. We really get that kind
Speaker 3: of you know, Joss Whedon era, funny classic Avengers kind
Speaker 3: of what people know it for with this little bit
Speaker 3: kind of the most successful outgrowth of that, which is
Speaker 3: Black Panther and the Condons and the wider World.
Speaker 4: It's, oh, that's such a good movie.
Speaker 1: So T'Challa kind of leads the forces, even including the Avengers.
Speaker 1: It's his kingdom after all, so they kind of fight
Speaker 1: under his banner, and he's of course fighting alongside his
Speaker 1: main allys Baku, various members of the Dormalage A.
Speaker 4: Daniel Kalua, I mean, did he come back?
Speaker 1: I don't know sure at the time, is running point
Speaker 1: on the Infinity Stone removal process from the vision and
Speaker 1: in the end they do win slash Loo. They basically
Speaker 1: are winning.
Speaker 4: It's like they win to lose that way around.
Speaker 1: Thanos assembles the infinished the Infinity Gauntlet and snaps and
Speaker 1: we lose to Challa.
Speaker 4: We lose.
Speaker 1: Shuri survives, survives, dude, when he's when when T'Challa starts
Speaker 1: like falling as his knees give.
Speaker 3: Out, and the and he's got Oh, it's so sad.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 3: We love it.
Speaker 4: Bye Sury as well.
Speaker 1: By Avengers Endgame, it's been five years surviving Avengers, including
Speaker 1: Steve or just like trying to figure out life, but
Speaker 1: the Avengers eventually put together a plan to time heist
Speaker 1: the Infinity Stones, thus alerting a younger version of Thanos
Speaker 1: that the Infinity Stones have been assembled.
Speaker 4: And he does twelve.
Speaker 1: He doesn't have to go go through all the hullabaloo
Speaker 1: of assembling them because they've already been assembled that's on
Speaker 1: Earth by the Avengers. So he goes and fights them.
Speaker 1: But because Bruce Banner, the Incredible Hulks, has unblipped the snap,
Speaker 1: all the heroes are back, including T'chaalah, Shuri and Baku
Speaker 1: and Akoye, and they all fight in the in the
Speaker 1: Battle of Earth against the younger Thanos. Final battle against Thanos,
Speaker 1: but the different one we got Black Panther Orkanda Forever
Speaker 1: set one year after Endgame, t'chala has died off screen.
Speaker 1: It's a very we talked about it at the time.
Speaker 1: Chadwick Boseman had passed away in the Intervening Years in
Speaker 1: a shock in a surprising announcement. It was just a
Speaker 1: unbelievable shock to discover that he had passed, And I
Speaker 1: thought that this movie handled it about as well as
Speaker 1: you can handle something like.
Speaker 4: That, especially because we have seen since.
Speaker 3: Even if they didn't know it at the time, though,
Speaker 3: I think Figi had it inkling.
Speaker 4: It was very clear that.
Speaker 3: Chadwick was at the heart of whatever was going to
Speaker 3: be next for the MCU. Like Black Panther had been
Speaker 3: the most successful movie, T'Challa was such an iconic cultural figure.
Speaker 3: You could imagine him leading the Avengers. He got to
Speaker 3: do it a little bit there in Infinity War. It
Speaker 3: leaves a hole that is not just you know, a
Speaker 3: cultural hole in a narrative hole. It's a literal hole
Speaker 3: in the lives of everyone who knew him, and also
Speaker 3: like the fandom. I mean, this is yeah, it's it's
Speaker 3: unbelievable to think that he knew the entire time and
Speaker 3: did this and created this legacy is so incredible.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I agree, Jason.
Speaker 3: I think it's like a really hard movie to look
Speaker 3: at critically, because very hard, but also as well, like
Speaker 3: it opens with this gorgeous funeral scene, there is a
Speaker 3: cathartic nature to being able to celebrate and talk about
Speaker 3: the fact that he's dead, you know, like putting that
Speaker 3: into the text is actually brave and it's in its
Speaker 3: own way. But yeah, heartbreaking film and obviously huge for
Speaker 3: the nay more of it all.
Speaker 1: Yes, surey And is haunted by guilt because of her
Speaker 1: inability to synthesize the heart shaped herb, which had been
Speaker 1: previously destroyed, but she does eventually create recreate it. She
Speaker 1: wanted to recreate it to save T'Challa, she wasn't able to.
Speaker 1: She does recreate it, she takes herself, enters the ancestral plane,
Speaker 1: meets Killmonger, interestingly, who talks very plainly about his trauma,
Speaker 1: how Wakanda failed him, about why he desired vengeance.
Speaker 4: And it's a.
Speaker 1: Cathartic and kind of like quietly one of the better
Speaker 1: scenes like throughout the whole MCU where they give the
Speaker 1: villain like time and space to talk about like how
Speaker 1: they had been wronged and it sure he becomes a
Speaker 1: Black Panther. At the end of the movie, we discover
Speaker 1: that T'Challa has a son named Toussaint who we will
Speaker 1: talk more about the casting of that character later. And
Speaker 1: of course this movie is the first appearance of Naymor
Speaker 1: played by Tenna Shuerta, who is a mutant originally born
Speaker 1: in the fifteen seventies during the Spanish colonization of the area.
Speaker 1: He develops his underwater powers, is worshiped as a god
Speaker 1: and assembles and it's all vibranium based powers and assembles
Speaker 1: a kingdom under the sea. He comes into cut direct
Speaker 1: conflict with Wakanda due to Wakanda's feeling that they have
Speaker 1: the they should have the monopoly on vibranium. And we
Speaker 1: can talk about whether that's legit or not, but that's
Speaker 1: how they feel about it. That is where we are left.
Speaker 4: Yes, those are.
Speaker 3: Those are our big our big pointers and history for
Speaker 3: the Black Panther and kind of name more expansion that
Speaker 3: we have.
Speaker 4: Seen in the MCU.
Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break and then we'll come back
Speaker 1: and have a little debate about what it all means.
Speaker 1: And we're back. Welcome super producer Ian to the program.
Speaker 2: What a well.
Speaker 1: First topic. sureI is she going to be the Black
Speaker 1: Panther long term?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: And shoot? And if she isn't, who's next? It certainly
Speaker 1: does seem like T'Challa's son Tusson is going to play
Speaker 1: a bigger role going forward. Yes, not confirmed, and we
Speaker 1: could talk about how we surmise that, But like, what
Speaker 1: do we think about Shurry as the Black Panther long term? Ian?
Speaker 5: I like, I like her in the role, and I
Speaker 5: think because she plays it so differently than Chadwick Boseman
Speaker 5: did obviously in her character and her and you know,
Speaker 5: Shurry's journey was centered around grief and that almost a
Speaker 5: combing to vengeance and and really letting the pain in.
Speaker 5: But then at the end she chooses mercy. So I
Speaker 5: think that arc and that that growth that she's experienced,
Speaker 5: you know, is primarily in Wakanda Forever. I think that's
Speaker 5: an interesting story in a journey, and I think she
Speaker 5: stepped into that role nicely, But I will say I
Speaker 5: do feel like they've kind of been like teasing or
Speaker 5: hinting around the edges of maybe Inbaku could become the
Speaker 5: black Pants.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they have been playing on that for a while
Speaker 4: for sure.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so I wouldn't be surprised if that happens, or
Speaker 5: if we get some kind of suit up at some point.
Speaker 5: But I think surey in the role is working for me.
Speaker 5: But I could see them pivoting to Imbaku or maybe
Speaker 5: a Tussin if they want to age him up for
Speaker 5: the future, if Letitia Wright doesn't want to keep doing
Speaker 5: this role anymore, you.
Speaker 3: Know, I think realistically, I think I think that we're
Speaker 3: going to get all of the above honestly, Like we
Speaker 3: already have Shuria's black panther. I think she will continue
Speaker 3: in that role. It's a comics cannon. It was something
Speaker 3: everyone was really excited for. I think Leticia did kill it.
Speaker 3: Like I think that.
Speaker 4: I think her and Nimore have.
Speaker 3: Like incredible, incredible, like kind of feisty ally frenemie chemistry.
Speaker 4: That was built up in that movie.
Speaker 3: Even though, like narratively, there was some choices I would
Speaker 3: like to go differently, I think right now, having them
Speaker 3: next to each other is great, but also Winston Duke
Speaker 3: is like a shining star in the sky and everybody
Speaker 3: wants to see him.
Speaker 4: Bark, who is Black Panther?
Speaker 3: I think, because sure he was able to synthesize the
Speaker 3: purple up, we will actually get multiple people in the suits.
Speaker 3: They already played into that with the idea of having
Speaker 3: the kind of suits for the Dora milage in the
Speaker 3: previous in Wakinda Forever. So I think that there's a
Speaker 3: version where we yeah, exactly, so, I think there's an
Speaker 3: version where we get an embarku iteration of Black Panther,
Speaker 3: or we get a Tucson. I think is very likely
Speaker 3: because we know that Doom is going after the children
Speaker 3: of superheroes for some reason, some kind of firstborn son situation,
Speaker 3: it seems like. So I think it's very likely we
Speaker 3: could see a new Avengers or like that kind of
Speaker 3: vibe of oh, the kids are getting put into the
Speaker 3: parents shoes. So in that case, but I think it's
Speaker 3: less likely there's going to be one. I think it's
Speaker 3: more likely that we're going to see multiple people thanks
Speaker 3: to the synthesized purple up.
Speaker 1: Interesting, I go the other way. First of all, I
Speaker 1: think sure he would be a very interesting I think
Speaker 1: there's a lot of meat on the bone there about
Speaker 1: her feelings about to childa being taken so quickly, her
Speaker 1: inability to save him. The you know, like I would
Speaker 1: love to see how meeting Killmonger on the ancestral plane,
Speaker 1: how that influences how she takes on the role. I
Speaker 1: do think that we will see multiple vibranium suits, but
Speaker 1: I think only one person will take the herb. I
Speaker 1: think that that's too I think it's too destabilizing to
Speaker 1: what kind of society, society and culture for there to
Speaker 1: be multiple I think you could play, Yeah, you can
Speaker 1: play it is destable. That's actually pretty interesting, right if
Speaker 1: the world's ending, Okay, we need multiple black panthers.
Speaker 4: But then you end up in a situation with the royalty.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you end up in a situation where now it's like,
Speaker 1: well should not Well I took it? Why to like it?
Speaker 1: That's interesting? Right? And so I think that if you
Speaker 1: if they all of us, is to say, if multiple
Speaker 1: people take the heart shaped herb, they need to play
Speaker 1: into the effect of that on what Condon's society. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: I like that, like how that could destabilize the nation
Speaker 1: because it's like it's never been done before, you know,
Speaker 1: and this is the this is you're talking about centuries
Speaker 1: and centuries of history of doing it this particular way.
Speaker 1: I think it would be really dramatic for more than
Speaker 1: one person to take it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they'd have to make it.
Speaker 3: They'd have to make it like a choice that has
Speaker 3: implications rather than just like a communion wafer of superhero
Speaker 3: powers that they can give to people. Jason, what about
Speaker 3: like the the Dampson iddress of it all? Do you
Speaker 3: think they would really cost him as a new T'Challa.
Speaker 3: I don't think that's gonna happen, But do you or
Speaker 3: do you think he would be an aged up to
Speaker 3: so on? Like?
Speaker 4: What do you think do you think they would really replace?
Speaker 1: I think that is my money as well. So apparently
Speaker 1: so Damson appeared on the Today Show and was asked
Speaker 1: if he's being cast in the New Black Panther movies,
Speaker 1: and he foolishly or wisely, I'm not even sure, answered yes. No.
Speaker 1: He was like he's like he should have said I
Speaker 1: can either confirm or deny, Like, I appreciate the question,
Speaker 1: but I can't talk about any casting of anything that
Speaker 1: I might.
Speaker 4: Be yeah, yeah, yeah, or anywhere.
Speaker 1: We haven't signed any said he said yes no, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: Instead he says yes no. And later in time he
Speaker 1: was asked about it again and says, I don't know
Speaker 1: anything about it.
Speaker 4: So he's giving. It's giving, you don't, you'll tell me.
Speaker 4: It's very clear to me that he's involved.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's very clear to me that he's he's involved, right,
Speaker 1: and what is he? Thirty something, thirty two or something,
Speaker 1: and so I really it leads me to believe in
Speaker 1: age up too soon, Like.
Speaker 4: Right, yeah, I think that's how you do it in comics.
Speaker 1: Why wouldn't you do it that way in the movies?
Speaker 4: Also, Tucson he we're going through doom. There's reasons it
Speaker 4: could be aged. There's timeline changes, there's all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 1: Now this is It would be interesting as well if
Speaker 1: Tucson aspires to being the Black Panther, but somebody is
Speaker 1: already the Black Panther and he's like, well, that's my dad,
Speaker 1: I'm the son of king. Like there's a lot of
Speaker 1: interesting storylines there too. Does somebody give way? Does he
Speaker 1: have to fight in Baku or Sui or somebody? You know,
Speaker 1: all this stuff that's so interesting to me. But I
Speaker 1: do think that he is Tucson. Does anybody disagree with
Speaker 1: that or think he could be anybody else?
Speaker 4: I think he's got to be.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 5: I think it makes sense for him to be an
Speaker 5: aged Yeah, I don't see how else you could really
Speaker 5: play it.
Speaker 3: Even though Dampson is that four, you could easily have
Speaker 3: him playing his early twenty four, right, you could.
Speaker 4: You could have him playing early twenties if you needed
Speaker 4: him too.
Speaker 3: He's not like they have to age him up to
Speaker 3: being real age, you know, Like that's the nature of Hollywood.
Speaker 3: So I think it's like we could definitely be in
Speaker 3: a space and then imagine getting to see like Lapetera
Speaker 3: fighting alongside her son, Like I would love to see that,
Speaker 3: like the two of them fighting together. That would be
Speaker 3: really incredible. I mean, that's another person I do want
Speaker 3: to say, Like we haven't even talked about that, But
Speaker 3: Nakia as the black panther she from the first movie,
Speaker 3: seems like she was a great choice. She understood what
Speaker 3: Wakanda needed to do way before T'Challa did. I don't
Speaker 3: think we're gonna see it, but I would love to
Speaker 3: see her fighting alongside her son. She's too outside, she's
Speaker 3: too much in the real and they need spies.
Speaker 1: That said, all of these choices bring with them really
Speaker 1: interesting wrinkles to what it might mean, especially considering how
Speaker 1: I mean listen, T'Challa seemed like rock solid in the
Speaker 1: role until he was Wasn't you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: So exactly, They're the kind of introduction of like potential rivals,
Speaker 1: instability at the top, all very interesting for the Condon question.
Speaker 1: Let's go to uh, let's go to Naymore in the Atlantic.
Speaker 1: We left, so we left Wakinda Forever with a kind
Speaker 1: of a brittle, yeah, brittle alliance between nay More and
Speaker 1: the Wakandans. There are a lot of damage had been done, understandable, understandable,
Speaker 1: but like, but has either side forgotten? That is, are
Speaker 1: there extremists on both sides who are like, what, we're
Speaker 1: really not going to get our lick back? I wonder
Speaker 1: how this is gonna go. Your thought, Rosie, what do
Speaker 1: you think will this Will this alliance hold up through Doomsday?
Speaker 4: I think it's gonna hold for the most part.
Speaker 3: But I do think that doom is going to be
Speaker 3: very appealing to the Lanteans.
Speaker 4: As a kind of like outsider leader.
Speaker 3: He can use magic, he has experience of leading uprisings
Speaker 3: revolutions depending on where we meet him in his timeline.
Speaker 3: I also want to say that both sides made mistakes. Obviously,
Speaker 3: I know the wakandas both sides mistake crazy on both sides,
Speaker 3: but like I don't want to say, I think Wakanda
Speaker 3: is actually the less trustworthy partner in this because like,
Speaker 3: really there were Kandans. Despite the fight and the conversations
Speaker 3: around the first Black Panther about how to safely be
Speaker 3: a part of the widest society, they immediately surely just
Speaker 3: align usself with the CIA. She was like, okay, America
Speaker 3: is right, like Mike is right, like this is these
Speaker 3: are bad. So I think that actually the most interesting
Speaker 3: thing is going to be as this new world order
Speaker 3: of like Battleworld or Doom, whatever we see happen under
Speaker 3: this version of Doom and the Avengers. I'm really interested
Speaker 3: to see what pressure points it puts on Wakanda, and
Speaker 3: I actually think we could see Wakanda and the Talakhan
Speaker 3: actually like align much closer. I think if anyone is
Speaker 3: gonna be the outlier from Talakhan who may end up
Speaker 3: aligning with someone else. I'd like to see a little
Speaker 3: Atlana Doom situation like no more sister, you know, like
Speaker 3: she had like a spicy energy to.
Speaker 4: Her, like I didn't see her and I see angry.
Speaker 3: She was, like not feeling the human kind of reconciliation
Speaker 3: that they were trying to do. I think they could
Speaker 3: be really interesting to see her and Doom together, and
Speaker 3: I think that could potentially be a core conflict going
Speaker 3: into that. Ian, what about you, what do you think
Speaker 3: about that relationship going forward.
Speaker 5: I think he's definitely gonna betray the Mokandas at some point,
Speaker 5: just based on the comics history a and then be
Speaker 5: based on just the fragile alliance.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 5: Even at the end of the movie when his sister's
Speaker 5: asking like are you like why are you doing this?
Speaker 5: Are you sure you want to do this? And he's like,
Speaker 5: this serves our bigger purpose, like this is going to
Speaker 5: help us in the long run. So I feel like
Speaker 5: he just sees it more as like a means to
Speaker 5: an end and it's just serving him now because he can,
Speaker 5: you know, take advantage of their combined strength against you know,
Speaker 5: the other people who want to use vibranium for other means.
Speaker 5: So I think Doom is going to maybe make him
Speaker 5: an offer or he's going to see an opening, and
Speaker 5: I think he's gonna take it. And I think he's
Speaker 5: definitely gonna portray the wakandas do.
Speaker 4: You guys think he's gonna that doom suit is going
Speaker 4: to be made of vibranium, because.
Speaker 1: That's gonna be made of some magic.
Speaker 4: I think it's gonna be magic and vibranium. I think,
Speaker 4: as they said, magic and science on stage, I.
Speaker 1: Agree with Ian. I think, let me first drop a
Speaker 1: couple takes. Take number one. I think it was a
Speaker 1: mistake for Wakanda to unveil themselves so rapidly.
Speaker 4: True.
Speaker 1: I think that's a dramatic, dramatic, dramatic shift, and they
Speaker 1: should have done it in stages. They should not have
Speaker 1: done it all of a sudden, because what you've got
Speaker 1: now is a nation that when they were hidden, they
Speaker 1: had a type of siege mentality that worked within the
Speaker 1: context of being hidden. But now that they're in the
Speaker 1: open m there's there is a and I'm not saying
Speaker 1: they're not.
Speaker 4: They don't.
Speaker 1: It's not rational that they should feel this way, you know,
Speaker 1: the other countries view them as a massive threat and
Speaker 1: the vibranium and the weapons from the vibrant all that stuff.
Speaker 1: I get it, you know, they should protect their territorial
Speaker 1: integrity and this, that and the other. But it is
Speaker 1: just like a kind of toxic dynamic where Wakanda is
Speaker 1: always feeling like they're coming to attack us, they're coming
Speaker 1: to take our shit, which they're not necessarily wrong, and
Speaker 1: this leads them to take like crazy preemptive action a
Speaker 1: lie with the CIA do stuff that I'm not sure
Speaker 1: is it may sense in a kind of like sh
Speaker 1: but but I don't think it's a good idea long term.
Speaker 1: And I think it all stems from they should have
Speaker 1: come out quietly, like over the course of.
Speaker 3: Some share plan or something like it just like six
Speaker 3: months too fast.
Speaker 1: It's way way, way too fast, and to destabilizing for
Speaker 1: the whole world.
Speaker 5: So I think that was I will say counterpoint though
Speaker 5: the Talakanel like there, I feel like the inverse of that,
Speaker 5: like the isolation isn't taken to the extreme good where
Speaker 5: they're all about the preemptive strikes, where you know, Nimore
Speaker 5: is like, oh, people are looking for vibranium in the ocean,
Speaker 5: like let's just kill them all before they can even
Speaker 5: find it.
Speaker 1: I think that's a good point. There's a medium, the
Speaker 1: medium extremes between these two extremes of immediately reveal yourself
Speaker 1: or like never come out. There's got to be a medium,
Speaker 1: way better way to do it than both of these
Speaker 1: kingdoms have chosen. Now, let me say this about No More,
Speaker 1: and it's the same thing you could have said about
Speaker 1: whoever rules Wakanda. He's gonna do what's best for his kingdom.
Speaker 1: And I think Ian is exactly right. And it's happened
Speaker 1: time and time again in the comics. Yes, No More
Speaker 1: has allied with the heroes the majority of the time.
Speaker 3: There's been Yeah, was he he was like the he
Speaker 3: was an antagonist. It was like it was like a
Speaker 3: They saw him as like a It was essentially a
Speaker 3: racist caricature about the idea of like environmentalism gone extreme,
Speaker 3: but obviously it was kind of radical. And yes, he's
Speaker 3: been but he has for the most part been an
Speaker 3: ally right.
Speaker 1: It's been it's not been like a binary like good guy,
Speaker 1: but he's always been in between. But when it's always counted,
Speaker 1: Nymour has sided with the good guys until until siding
Speaker 1: with the good guys inter intersected with his leadership of
Speaker 1: Atlantis and schemes, and and I wouldn't even call it schemes.
Speaker 1: I would just say, like, he's gonna do what's best
Speaker 1: for and I think the MC version will do that,
Speaker 1: will do what's best in his view for Talakhan. And
Speaker 1: if Doom is like, I'll get all these motherfuckers off
Speaker 1: your back forever, like you can just like run.
Speaker 4: Your thing, You could just run.
Speaker 1: Magic style, Nobody's ever coming down there, I think. And
Speaker 1: I wouldn't even call it a betrayal. He's the leader
Speaker 1: of a cas I'm saying, I don't think he's a betrail.
Speaker 1: He can't he can't choose the interests over out of
Speaker 1: outside parties, over what's best for his kingdom. Like T'Challa
Speaker 1: wouldn't have done that. Sure he wouldn't do that, Knocket,
Speaker 1: none of them would do that for Kana, And I
Speaker 1: don't think nay More would do that for tala Kan.
Speaker 1: And it adds some very interesting potential for conflict. I
Speaker 1: do agree with Ian that if Doom makes the right offer,
Speaker 1: no more, we'll switch sides.
Speaker 3: Do you think that we could see like rogue groups
Speaker 3: from Talakan but also from Wakanda, because there's gonna be
Speaker 3: people who aren't happy with Shuri's management of that situation too.
Speaker 1: I mean you might see that. I would also look
Speaker 1: for like war parties on both sides of the Wakanda
Speaker 1: Talakan divide, being like this is fucked up, this piece shit.
Speaker 1: We should be we should be much more muscular, Like
Speaker 1: why are we walking arm in arm with the people
Speaker 1: who destroyed Yeah, yeah, Kalkan.
Speaker 3: You know, like you can you can look at it,
Speaker 3: But that's what I'm thinking we might see and I
Speaker 3: could see the rise of more extreme voices on either
Speaker 3: side who kind of drive the country to war, you know,
Speaker 3: or or even like question the the leadership on both sides,
Speaker 3: like why are we doing this?
Speaker 1: So I could see that. I could see that.
Speaker 4: Happening up next.
Speaker 1: Who is the better fashion fashion wa condons or the tylecaneal.
Speaker 1: I think it's primarily like what do you how do
Speaker 1: you feel about the color schemes? But I'd be fascinated
Speaker 1: to know what you'all think, Rosie, what do you think?
Speaker 4: I'm a telecaneil fan, I'm a big teal. I love teal.
Speaker 4: I like the drip. I like the underwater vibes. I
Speaker 4: think that that's easy.
Speaker 3: I like the way they use accessories same, you know,
Speaker 3: I think that they've got I don't. I feel like
Speaker 3: the Wacondons do have incredible drip in general, but when
Speaker 3: it comes to the vibranium specifically, I feel like they
Speaker 3: often go a little too stealth, a little too classic militarrized,
Speaker 3: like you know, hidden simple, And I get it. The
Speaker 3: black panther design is iconic, but I think for me
Speaker 3: it's the Telecanel. I like that a little bit more
Speaker 3: showy with it, you know, like they always they always
Speaker 3: fit it out, even if they're fighting on the side
Speaker 3: of like a giant, you know, shipping container ship that's
Speaker 3: like fifty miles long, they're coming with all the jewels,
Speaker 3: you know, and I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: Ian.
Speaker 5: Hmmm, that's a that's a tough question because I think
Speaker 5: they both do different things really well. So I think
Speaker 5: the Talcanel have the more like you know, traditional like
Speaker 5: native like Mayan like Yucatan inspired stuff, whereas the vibranium
Speaker 5: stuff for the Wakandans is like more afro futurism. So
Speaker 5: it combines the old and the new, whereas I think
Speaker 5: the talcaneal stuff is just more traditional. But I think
Speaker 5: I think I like, uh, the vibranium drip from the
Speaker 5: Wacandans a little bit more, I think because it has
Speaker 5: a combination of the old and the new.
Speaker 2: The baffle future.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's like a streetwear element to the exact Wakandan drip,
Speaker 1: which I think is really cool.
Speaker 3: I think they have the vibranium, they don't make it
Speaker 3: a part of it, like if it's just the street fashion.
Speaker 4: I think Wakanda has it.
Speaker 1: It's it's I agree, But I think that there is
Speaker 1: a you know, it's a it's a kind of cultural
Speaker 1: difference in that the Wakandas have always been like keep it,
Speaker 1: keep it quiet, that's true, and the beads.
Speaker 3: Are imputy quiet.
Speaker 1: We don't want to talk about it that much, you know,
Speaker 1: when we got that ship, but we you know, we
Speaker 1: we don't flaunt it that much, whereas the Telecanil have
Speaker 1: always been like that's that thing is on me.
Speaker 4: We got it all, We've got it.
Speaker 1: I'm wearing a two point five billion dollar hunk of
Speaker 1: vibranium my neck.
Speaker 3: Uet.
Speaker 4: It's like the vibranium vest.
Speaker 1: Like you can make fifteen fusion bombs with this ship I'm.
Speaker 2: Wearing my wrist incredible.
Speaker 1: So but I I also I do I gravitate to
Speaker 1: the telecanil as well. I think it's just because it's
Speaker 1: so it's so distinctive and it almost like doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1: Like when you see them fighting in Boston, You're like,
Speaker 1: what do you guys wear? Like, but they are so
Speaker 1: drippy with literally drippy with it. I like that, you know.
Speaker 1: I I just I find it. I I literally I
Speaker 1: just find it magnetic to look at, like it's it's
Speaker 1: really incredible, how you know. I think the name and
Speaker 1: the name more character design, I just think is like
Speaker 1: it's so so good. I absolutely love it. Yeah, Okay,
Speaker 1: final question, the most important question. We are we are
Speaker 1: going to get the meeting slash confrontation of multiple of
Speaker 1: our favorite groups, teams, families, and characters, and we are
Speaker 1: certainly going to get a meeting of the classic love
Speaker 1: triangle read Richard's his wife Sue Storm partners in the
Speaker 1: Fantastic Four, and the kind of I guess you would
Speaker 1: say like nuclear family backbone of the MCU in the
Speaker 1: class of comics, and nay More who just can't stop
Speaker 1: shooting a shot with that, and Rusty like.
Speaker 3: Openly he's never seeing a woman he wants more than Susan, say,
Speaker 3: Sue's like there have been moments in the comics or
Speaker 3: she's there's something there.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying there's nothing there. She respects her family,
Speaker 1: She's whould ever break reads art, but there is something there,
Speaker 1: and there are moments where like there have been moments
Speaker 1: in the comics where it's like her and Reader on
Speaker 1: the outs, they're fighting about something and she'll just be like,
Speaker 1: you know, show up at Naymores to like watch a
Speaker 1: movie or something. You know, like there's there's moments.
Speaker 2: It's like, hey, can I come over? Like Read is
Speaker 2: really pissing me off? Can we talk? So, okay, I'll
Speaker 2: send a whale for you right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd be right there. He like pops out of
Speaker 1: the toilet, he just like comes out, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I'll be right there, like this water all over the
Speaker 1: bathroom floor and neighbors standing.
Speaker 2: There, incredible, Oh my god.
Speaker 1: But okay, so, Ian, who do you think who is
Speaker 1: the better lover for Sue? And you can define that
Speaker 1: however you want.
Speaker 5: Okay, Yeah, we could take this a few different ways.
Speaker 1: Doom read Doom or nay War all.
Speaker 2: Right, so off rip. I think I'm gonna have to
Speaker 2: take Doom off.
Speaker 5: The list because I feel like that's like some intense
Speaker 5: emotional manipulation, like fucking Stockholm syndrome shit, where it's like
Speaker 5: I rewrote the whole universe to make you think you're
Speaker 5: in love with me, or like I killed your husband
Speaker 5: type shit. So like, no, I think we're going to
Speaker 5: loose that. But Read, I think, if we're going off
Speaker 5: of physical attributes, is probably the untouchable, just because that
Speaker 5: man can turn into anything if you think about it.
Speaker 5: I'll let you use your imagination there. But I think
Speaker 5: the fact that he's like so burdened with this giant
Speaker 5: scientific mind, I feel like he cannot always give her
Speaker 5: the attention and love that she deserves. He's emotionally detached.
Speaker 5: So I feel like that's where Naymar steps in and
Speaker 5: he's like, yo, why are you This guy doesn't have
Speaker 5: time for you. He's risen her up hard, you know,
Speaker 5: He's like, you know, he doesn't understand you like I do, baby,
Speaker 5: you know. So I think from a physical standpoint, Reid
Speaker 5: is the is the one. But I think from like
Speaker 5: the verbal game, like the risk game, I think it's
Speaker 5: name war all day.
Speaker 4: I don't think.
Speaker 5: I don't think he stimulates her in a different way
Speaker 5: because Reid might be to disaffect her or like disattam kidding.
Speaker 1: Me, I get what you're saying. Okay, Rosie Sue lover
Speaker 1: for Sue Read do more, name More?
Speaker 3: Ah, this is like such a staple comic book conversation
Speaker 3: at the shop. I think, just like aesthetically, I am
Speaker 3: obviously I'm a name More fan.
Speaker 4: Like he's hot, he's.
Speaker 3: Got muscles, he's wearing short shorts, he's swimming, he's glistening,
Speaker 3: he's beautiful. He's one of the only characters, male characters
Speaker 3: throughout history that's gotten like a you know, a pin
Speaker 3: up kind of beach look throughout history. He's one of
Speaker 3: the few characters that was ever kind of drawn with
Speaker 3: a tiny bit of a female gaze, which I guess
Speaker 3: makes sense because of the people who've worked on him.
Speaker 3: I think, like the Jyle version, you know, there's so
Speaker 3: many iconic iterations. Read is just like a guy to me,
Speaker 3: Like he's just a stretchy guy. But obviously we know
Speaker 3: that those skills on a physical level could.
Speaker 4: Could come into play in a powerful way. He could
Speaker 4: do some things we've seen in the comics, you know,
Speaker 4: he can.
Speaker 3: It depends what version of your powers you think Reid has,
Speaker 3: because obviously we've seen all different versions, like the very
Speaker 3: problematic version from fanfor Stick where he can change the color.
Speaker 4: Of his skin. Not sure why that was a choice
Speaker 4: they made.
Speaker 3: So if you believe that reads stretchiness and powers allow
Speaker 3: him to change into any shape, then yeah, I'm sure
Speaker 3: that would be a great, you know, a great physicality aspect.
Speaker 3: But I feel like, you know, nay More is always wet,
Speaker 3: So I just feel like on a physical level that's
Speaker 3: going well, He's always dripping in many different ways.
Speaker 4: I feel like Ian tapped into it.
Speaker 3: On the mental level, like especially the MCU version of Reid.
Speaker 4: Look, that's page of a scale.
Speaker 3: Who doesn't want him to turn into a different shape
Speaker 3: and spend a night with him or whatever? That's great,
Speaker 3: But like he's so consumed with work, like he doesn't
Speaker 3: even have time for the babies.
Speaker 4: Like he does have time for nothing.
Speaker 3: Uh, but but no more, you know, that's a passionate
Speaker 3: man like and also his name in the MCU was
Speaker 3: came from like the Boy with no Heart, right, the
Speaker 3: child with no Heart, Like the number one thing that
Speaker 3: women always want to be doing is like fixing a
Speaker 3: man or making a man who can't love them like
Speaker 3: you know, love them. I can fix him and he'll
Speaker 3: be like, you're my heart. You know, he'll be saying
Speaker 3: that crazy shit. I don't think he's necessarily gonna he's
Speaker 3: giving fuck boy in the MCU for sure, but I
Speaker 3: think that this soon needs a fuck boy. I mean,
Speaker 3: Doom is tough one for me too, because that's like
Speaker 3: my ultimate heart Rob in the MCU, I think like
Speaker 3: he's smart, he's magical, he's crazy.
Speaker 4: I love him, but he's also being played by Robert
Speaker 4: Downey Junior, so he's out of the circle for me.
Speaker 3: Honestly, Like, I just I just don't think it makes
Speaker 3: sense for them to add that layer to it with
Speaker 3: Robert Downey Junior and Vanessa even though she's you know,
Speaker 3: my age, she's like thirty seven, he's in his sixties.
Speaker 3: I just I love an age gap relationship when the
Speaker 3: two adults are consenting like that, but I don't it
Speaker 3: works for me.
Speaker 4: I think this is gonna be a pedro tenno showdown
Speaker 4: in the MCU and honestly you may be anough three
Speaker 4: a little three way they.
Speaker 1: Can have a rush each other. So I think that
Speaker 1: first of all, let's talk canonically. There's been many moments
Speaker 1: where Sue has been as as we have mentioned, fled
Speaker 1: to nay More, times of distress, times where she's disagreeing
Speaker 1: with Reid. You know, there's you can find panels out
Speaker 1: there where she's standing with Naymar with his hand, with
Speaker 1: her hand on his chest, that kind of thing that
Speaker 1: said canonically in the cannon, Reid gets that shit done.
Speaker 1: Reid can get it active. In the in the bed,
Speaker 1: Ian mentioned it any shape now, I'm specifically referencing Fantastic four,
Speaker 1: Volume one, five thirty two any day now, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: this fucking written by J. Michael Strazinski, two thousand and five.
Speaker 1: And in the panel go look it up, Read is
Speaker 1: perched on the edge of the bed. The bed is
Speaker 1: a rumpled mess. He's sitting there, shirt off, in his
Speaker 1: pajama bottoms, and he's saying, I'm gonna get some water.
Speaker 1: Do you want anything? He could just trap to get it,
Speaker 1: but he's gonna go walk to get it.
Speaker 4: Bitch, exactly he could change to get it.
Speaker 1: And Sue in shaky bubble voice with the squiggily bubbled tail,
Speaker 1: so she's really she is exhausted.
Speaker 3: He put a script mark like she has fucking woord out,
Speaker 3: like make these letters look like she has pie out.
Speaker 1: She says, no, no, I'm fine. Have I ever mentioned
Speaker 1: what a wonderful set of abilities you acquired from those
Speaker 1: cosmic rays? So he's I can tear it up. And
Speaker 1: here's the thing about Read, he could put that thing down. Now,
Speaker 1: I agree with all of your assessments. Read is a
Speaker 1: very busy guy. He gets engross in hiss work. This
Speaker 1: is the primary source of the tension between them whenever
Speaker 1: it flares up. And I think because of that, Read
Speaker 1: can be like efficiency, I only have I have fifteen
Speaker 1: minutes forty You want to get it in, Let me
Speaker 1: get let me scientifically like he can get get Sue
Speaker 1: off big time, and then I got to get back
Speaker 1: to the fucking lab right, Whereas nay More is like,
Speaker 1: it's a different dynamic and I'm I'm also throwing doctor dumout.
Speaker 1: Doom is out with Sue. First of all, Sue, Sue
Speaker 1: and Reader a married couple. Their their you know, their equals,
Speaker 1: each taking the lead in different areas of life at
Speaker 1: different times.
Speaker 4: But that's like a more.
Speaker 1: That's a different kind of relationship, one built on long
Speaker 1: term intimacy and knowing each other so specifically and in
Speaker 1: a vulnerable way. With nay More, it's that she can
Speaker 1: fuck like a queen with Naymar. Here's imagination. In my imagination,
Speaker 1: nor Naymar is definitely the sub in this. In this relationship,
Speaker 1: it's Sue on top all day, under the under the wave.
Speaker 1: She's she's putting her foot on his neck, she's putting
Speaker 1: a force bubble around his head. She's, you know, like
Speaker 1: she's getting freaking with this guy that set and and
Speaker 1: nay War is also the type of guy where he's like,
Speaker 1: you know, garbage piling up in the streets of.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, he's just like he's like not
Speaker 3: going to work. He's not like he's that like riots
Speaker 3: in the street and he's sucking for.
Speaker 4: The key.
Speaker 3: Yes, he has a cling to her because she's literally
Speaker 3: my husband is like, right, I can make you come
Speaker 3: in twenty minutes between and then equation and this equation
Speaker 3: and then I gotta go save the world with a
Speaker 3: dumb plan with Robert Downey Jr. Or something, and she's like,
Speaker 3: or I could go for three days and stay in
Speaker 3: like a Palatio underwater sex dungeon or whatever, and.
Speaker 4: Just tell this guy to take me out for two
Speaker 4: days straight and he just won't. Even he will let
Speaker 4: the taxes go. Nobody's paying taxes, he doesn't.
Speaker 1: No More could be on the front lines of the
Speaker 1: war with Wakanda, like it's an active battle zone and
Speaker 1: then she's like, he's like I'm.
Speaker 3: Out, like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's like he's like, I gotta go by,
Speaker 1: and then and then he's just gone.
Speaker 2: Wherever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got it right.
Speaker 4: That would helen you guys.
Speaker 3: Actually, as much as you know, I don't expect this
Speaker 3: movie to be full of fucking as much as I
Speaker 3: would love that, Like, let's have an em movie full
Speaker 3: of fucking guys like the Eternals, but with chemistry and
Speaker 3: they are like you actually do raise interesting conversation, even
Speaker 3: though it probably wouldn't be as explicit as we're talking about.
Speaker 3: I do see a version where No More could actually
Speaker 3: get so close to Sue that it starts to enamor
Speaker 3: him to the human side, and he does, let you know,
Speaker 3: his sister or Tilla or some rogue group. I end
Speaker 3: up in his space kind of rise up and say, well,
Speaker 3: where's the king. It's that ironically that actually sounds like
Speaker 3: it could happen.
Speaker 1: That's a good call. That would be very fascinating if
Speaker 1: I mean, I could see a tiller bey like the
Speaker 1: King's fucking this human lady all the time, Like you
Speaker 1: gets out, you know, once that gets out of the
Speaker 1: streets of Tlekon, like, oh, the the garbage pickup hasn't happened,
Speaker 1: and there's blackouts for the last three weeks because the
Speaker 1: gig is like fucking this human lady twenty four hours
Speaker 1: a day. They just call in for sushi and literally
Speaker 1: seam bringing a bell for fucking room service down there,
Speaker 1: like come on, So I I hope she never leaves,
Speaker 1: and she will never leave Red. That's their They're rock
Speaker 1: solid for whatever problems they have. There's there's a depth
Speaker 1: of their They have kids together, and there's a depth
Speaker 1: of their relationship that goes back back, back back, back,
Speaker 1: years and years and years. She's not gonna throw that away.
Speaker 1: But there are these space there are these gaps where
Speaker 1: and in the comics she has exploited them from time
Speaker 1: to time, not in an overly disrespectful way, but as
Speaker 1: I was saying, as I was saying, there have been
Speaker 1: moments where like she's she's beefing would read and like,
Speaker 1: oh and name there, you know, like, so I expect
Speaker 1: there to be something. They get it there.
Speaker 4: In the teaser they did.
Speaker 3: They like ended it with that moment of him kind
Speaker 3: of coming through the shadows and them seeing each other.
Speaker 4: So I think like they.
Speaker 3: Know what the people want. They know that the name
Speaker 3: or sue kind of crispiness has to be that. Okay,
Speaker 3: this would be like my nightmare version. But with the
Speaker 3: way society's going, you think, what do you think likelihood
Speaker 3: of them doing like open relationships and read like the
Speaker 3: polyamorous in the MCU, I think it could happen. That's
Speaker 3: the kind of representation they'll put in first before they
Speaker 3: have like an act.
Speaker 1: I'll say this, the X there should be like a
Speaker 1: poly like the X men have it canonically that there's
Speaker 1: been polycules. So that's exactly and one we were talking
Speaker 1: about this off mic, whether it's a polly, whether you know, whatever.
Speaker 1: The relationship is one thing that I really and I
Speaker 1: truly believe this sincerely it's not just that like this
Speaker 1: stuff that we like and we talk about, it's fun
Speaker 1: to talk about. I really believe if you inject some
Speaker 1: degree of sexiness into the MCU agree, like whether it's
Speaker 1: Peter and MJ or Scott and Old.
Speaker 3: And is gonna hopefully get her, you know, glow up
Speaker 3: with the red tar and the glam and all that
Speaker 3: that they.
Speaker 1: Name or reads Sue, whoever it is, there needs to
Speaker 1: be if you inject a little bit of these two
Speaker 1: can't keep their hands off each other. They just are
Speaker 1: like they're in that they're in that part of the
Speaker 1: relationship where it's like they gotta see each other all
Speaker 1: the time. They gotta be like hanging off each other
Speaker 1: all the time. If you inject a little bit into this,
Speaker 1: especially as they they're bringing younger like characters into the
Speaker 1: into the fold. You know, we've seen the kind of
Speaker 1: very Chase Steve and Peggy Carter of it all, like
Speaker 1: they didn't even get to ants and like all this
Speaker 1: stuff happens off screen, Let's see some of it happen
Speaker 1: on screen. I'm not talking about I agree, sex, I'm
Speaker 1: talking about like passion.
Speaker 3: Jason, You're right, because you know what think about the
Speaker 3: most talked about moments from Superman. It's when he picks
Speaker 3: her up and puts her on the fucking kitchen table when.
Speaker 4: They kiss, and everyone was like, wait, these.
Speaker 1: Two came back together three months and they're in a
Speaker 1: situationship because they just love like making it.
Speaker 3: I mean, give us an MCU relationship so believable that
Speaker 3: it starts rumors that they're having an affair. The MCU
Speaker 3: has never had that, and the Superman had that off back,
Speaker 3: you know, like, give us that passion, give us something
Speaker 3: like that. I think you're right, Jason, I think that
Speaker 3: could reinvigorate the MCU.
Speaker 1: Well, we're very excited for uh for Doomsday. We are
Speaker 1: eagerly awaiting a trailer. I've been refreshing the reddits looking
Speaker 1: for a leaka no league has come out yet. We
Speaker 1: were recording this on Friday after Cinema Con.
Speaker 2: It would be crazy if it doesn't come out by
Speaker 2: the end of the weekend. Yeah, they got.
Speaker 1: So recording this right after the CinemaCon debut of the
Speaker 1: Avengers Doomsday trailer. Coming up next week on Extra Vision
Speaker 1: the biggest pop culture news of the week, plus Small
Speaker 1: shadow Lord and Daredevil Born Again. That's it for this
Speaker 1: episode next for listening. X ray Vision is hosted by
Speaker 1: Jason Spcion and Rosie Knight and is a production of
Speaker 1: iHeart Podcast.
Speaker 3: Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Abusafar.
Speaker 3: Our producers are Common, Laurent Dean Jonathan and Bay Wag.
Speaker 1: A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
Speaker 1: songs by Aaron Kauffman.
Speaker 3: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and Heidi.
Speaker 4: Our discord moderate, though