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Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome back to a brand new episode

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Speaker 1: of Couch Talks on You Need Therapy Podcast. My name

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Speaker 1: is Cat and I am the host. If you are

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Speaker 1: wondering or curious what is couch Talks. What is this

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Speaker 1: extra episode I'm getting on Wednesday? It is the bonus

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Speaker 1: episode of You Need Therapy where I answer questions that

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Speaker 1: listeners send into me, and you can send those questions

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Speaker 1: into Catherine at You Need Therapy podcast dot com. And

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Speaker 1: who knows, one day you might turn on this episode

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Speaker 1: and here your question. With that, I'd like to say,

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Speaker 1: as I always do, that even though I am answering

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Speaker 1: questions and talking about questions that you guys bring up,

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Speaker 1: this podcast doesn't serve as a replacement for therapy or

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Speaker 1: an alternative. It might benefit it you. It might encourage

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Speaker 1: you to go to therapy. It might encourage you to

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Speaker 1: talk about something specific in your own therapy session. But

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Speaker 1: I can't give you therapeutic advice or actually do therapy

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Speaker 1: on you through the podcast. So we have that out

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Speaker 1: of the way, let's dive into today's question. So we're

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Speaker 1: gonna do one question. I like to keep all of

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Speaker 1: the people who send these in anonymous because you never

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Speaker 1: know if somebody wants to share their name or not,

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Speaker 1: and so we just like to say that all of

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Speaker 1: this is anonymous. Unless you really want me to shout

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Speaker 1: out your name, then I guess in the email you

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Speaker 1: can tell me that, but for the most far, I

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Speaker 1: like to keep it, you know, unknown. So here is

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Speaker 1: the question, and then we will talk about what is

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Speaker 1: inside of it. Hi cat, My main question is how

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Speaker 1: would you deal with a toxic person at work that

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Speaker 1: you have to work with directly. I don't want to

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Speaker 1: leave my job because I like most aspects of it,

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Speaker 1: but working with this one person makes me feel like

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Speaker 1: I have a cloud looming overhead that I just can't shake.

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Speaker 1: My boss knows that we don't work together. In fact,

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Speaker 1: she knows that everyone has trouble working with this person,

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Speaker 1: and yet she repeatedly pairs us up together. I'm at

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Speaker 1: my wits end and can't figure out how to separate

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Speaker 1: myself emotionally and physically from her. It's exhausting. This person's

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Speaker 1: mood constantly changes every single day, and you don't know

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Speaker 1: who you're going to get. I have to, in quotes,

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Speaker 1: collaborate with her, and I try, but I have to

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Speaker 1: constantly watch my back because she's only ever looking out

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Speaker 1: for herself. She makes me crazy and gets in my

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Speaker 1: head with her mind games. I go home and complain

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Speaker 1: about her to my husband and rethink things she said,

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Speaker 1: questioning her intentions. I wish I could extricate her from

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Speaker 1: my life. It would be so much better. Do you

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Speaker 1: have any suggestions? Oh, gosh, okay. I think this is

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Speaker 1: one of those things that's like all too common. I

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Speaker 1: wish there was an easy solution for difficult people out

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Speaker 1: where work. There is not, and I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of people have to find ways to cope and deal

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Speaker 1: with difficult people at work. Very rarely do we have

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Speaker 1: work environments where everybody gets along perfectly at all times. Now,

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Speaker 1: I think what you're talking about is an exaggerated version

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Speaker 1: of what a lot of people experience. It doesn't sound

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Speaker 1: like this person is just frustrating and annoying. It sounds

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Speaker 1: like they really are impacting your well being most days.

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Speaker 1: So here's the thing. I always am one to prefer

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Speaker 1: direct communication over anything else when it is safe to

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Speaker 1: do so. And even with that direct communication, things may

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Speaker 1: not shift, but you can be in control of what

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Speaker 1: you express. So the first thing I would be very

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Speaker 1: curious about is how has this been handled in the past.

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Speaker 1: It seems like everyone knows this is an issue, but

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Speaker 1: no one feels like they can or I mean want

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Speaker 1: to make the effort to shift things or say something,

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Speaker 1: or be the one that speaks out. This could be

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Speaker 1: for a variety of reasons. I think the first that

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Speaker 1: comes to mind here is the discomfort that comes with

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Speaker 1: that right, and the second is this idea of safety.

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Speaker 1: Like I said, it's great to speak directly with somebody

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Speaker 1: and share your experience when it's safe to do so.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's worth a while to talk about

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Speaker 1: the difference between these two things, discomfort and safety. Often

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Speaker 1: we pair these two things together when actually they could

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Speaker 1: not be more opposite at times. So I'm gonna give

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Speaker 1: you a little story to explain how I view these things. So,

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Speaker 1: back in the day when I was an adventure therapist,

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Speaker 1: we did this thing called the Leap of Faith, and

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Speaker 1: it was like our favorite week of adventure therapy. And

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Speaker 1: what it was is this telephone pole that you would climb.

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Speaker 1: There's like rungs stuck into it and you would put

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Speaker 1: on a harness you climb up to the top of

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Speaker 1: this pole. There was like a little twelve by twelve

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Speaker 1: basically the size of like almost like a piece of

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Speaker 1: paper at the top on the very top of this pole,

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Speaker 1: and you have to pull yourself up, stand up tall,

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Speaker 1: and then you jump off and you're caught by this

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Speaker 1: harness And it is fun to an extent. It is

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Speaker 1: also so scary, and what a lot of people experience

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Speaker 1: is a lot of discomfort through this exercise. Now, what

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Speaker 1: they think that they are experiencing a lot of times

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Speaker 1: is not being safe. Right, so they get on this

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Speaker 1: thing and starts shaking. They don't know like what happens

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Speaker 1: if they're going to fall, like, and so you start

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Speaker 1: to have this fear attached to like, oh, I don't

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Speaker 1: feel safe, something bad's going to happen, when in reality,

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Speaker 1: you are harnessed in it's double harnessed, like all the

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Speaker 1: things we check them a million times. You are totally safe,

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Speaker 1: but you're experiencing this intense amount of discomfort. But that

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Speaker 1: discomfort also is going to if you're able to sit

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Speaker 1: in it and move through it, lead you to this fantastic,

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Speaker 1: like exceptional, Like I can't even describe how important this

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Speaker 1: day was for so many people because of the transformation

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Speaker 1: they experienced by going through this exercise. But you have

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Speaker 1: to be willing to be uncomfortable to move through it,

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Speaker 1: and you have to be able to distinguish between the

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Speaker 1: difference between I'm safe and I'm uncomfortable. Because one of

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Speaker 1: the things that we whisper, or don't know that we

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Speaker 1: would whisper. I think we would yell it into the

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Speaker 1: sky as you're safe, keep breathing, you're safe, you're held,

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Speaker 1: we got you, when in the reality, you're probably more

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Speaker 1: unsafe on the ground because like anywhere you go you

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Speaker 1: could turn around, a car could hit you, like if

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Speaker 1: the tons of stuff can happen. But you are in

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Speaker 1: the sky, held by all these harnesses, you're good. And

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Speaker 1: you can use that example and to distinguish between the

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Speaker 1: difference between discomfort and safety in a lot of ways. Right.

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Speaker 1: So in addiction, you know, it is really comfortable, right

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Speaker 1: for somebody who maybe as an alcoholic to go to

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Speaker 1: a bar and drink when they get like sad or

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Speaker 1: lonely or scared or any of that, that's comfortable. They

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Speaker 1: know that at the same time that's not safe for them. Right,

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Speaker 1: So some of the things that are very comfortable for

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Speaker 1: us are very unsafe for us, and some of the

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Speaker 1: things that are very uncomfortable are exactly what we need

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Speaker 1: and those are very safe. So I wanted to just

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Speaker 1: talk about that because I think it's very important to

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Speaker 1: peel back this part where like when I feel discomfortab

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Speaker 1: about something, the message I said myself is like, alarm, alarm, alarm,

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Speaker 1: don't do it. This is unsafe, don't do it. When

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Speaker 1: we have to actually sit and look at what are

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Speaker 1: the facts, what actually is unsafe about this situation? What

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Speaker 1: is safe about the situation? And am I just uncomfortable

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Speaker 1: because this is different? Or is there danger here? So

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Speaker 1: I want you to first think about that, like is

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Speaker 1: there danger involved in having a conversation with this person

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Speaker 1: who is really making a negative impact on your well

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Speaker 1: being at work which then translates into your home life.

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Speaker 1: What are the actual dangers of me having a conversation

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Speaker 1: or speaking up? And what are the things that are

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Speaker 1: just uncomfortable? Because like literally, as the race of human beings,

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Speaker 1: we really do not like to be uncomfortable, and we

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Speaker 1: find all the fun and and very dangerous at times

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Speaker 1: and good sounding excuses to not have to sit in

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Speaker 1: that discomfort when really allowing ourselves to move through discomfort

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Speaker 1: is often what brings us to the places that we

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Speaker 1: really want to go and be. Now, with all of that,

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Speaker 1: we still can't control their people. What we can control

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Speaker 1: is ourselves, like I said earlier, But we cannot control

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Speaker 1: other people their behavior, what they choose to change, what

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Speaker 1: they choose to keep the same. And at the same time,

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Speaker 1: other people can't know what they don't know, like the

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Speaker 1: same with us. Like we're not mind readers. They're not

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Speaker 1: mind readers. And so if nothing is being said and

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Speaker 1: everybody is just kind of like you know, walking on

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Speaker 1: eggshells or doing dances around this person who's causing a

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Speaker 1: lot of destruction, They're going to continue to do what

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Speaker 1: works for them. I mean I would if I didn't

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Speaker 1: know that my behavior was impacting anybody. Maybe I knew

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Speaker 1: it was impacting them, but not to the extent that

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Speaker 1: they felt like they needed to say something. If it

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Speaker 1: was working for me, I would keep doing it. So

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Speaker 1: I would wonder, here, does this person know what it's

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Speaker 1: like to be you? Have you expressed how you experienced

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Speaker 1: this person? If not, and it feels safe to do, so,

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Speaker 1: I'd give it a try. And I would give it

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Speaker 1: and try using something I'd like to call intentional dialogue

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Speaker 1: and sticking to the facts and making it simple and

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Speaker 1: making about you. So intense dialogue sounds like this, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna give you a script and then you confuse it

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Speaker 1: together to make it sound more natural for you. So

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Speaker 1: you start with use a lot of eyes here. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about ourselves, our own experience. So when I feel blank,

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Speaker 1: and you put a feeling word in there, not a

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Speaker 1: judgment word. So a feeling word would be like sad, angry, scared, fear, guilt, shame, joy,

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Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. I feel blank when I experience blank.

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Speaker 1: So then you put the actual experience when I experience

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Speaker 1: somebody talking over me when I was sitting in that

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Speaker 1: meeting and I didn't get to say my idea when

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Speaker 1: I showed up on time and everybody else was late

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Speaker 1: to whatever. So I feel blank when and then they're like,

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Speaker 1: stick to the facts, not the judgment. Right here, you

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Speaker 1: just say the facts what actually happened. The story I

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Speaker 1: make up or what it brings up for me is

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Speaker 1: the next part. So after the experience the story makeup

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Speaker 1: is blank. What it brings up for me is blank.

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Speaker 1: And that's where you can put in that judgment piece,

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Speaker 1: or you can share like, what it brings up for

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Speaker 1: me is not feeling important, not feeling like what my

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Speaker 1: opinion matters or something like that, And what I need

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Speaker 1: is blank. And so then you just request something. Now

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Speaker 1: that's the general part of it. If you want to

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Speaker 1: do a little extra credit, you can tag on a

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Speaker 1: little consequence to express the importance of what you're saying.

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Speaker 1: So I need blank. If I'm not able to get that,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to have to ask to switch to a

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Speaker 1: different team, or I'm going to And then you put

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Speaker 1: in some or I'm going to and you say something

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Speaker 1: that you're going to do for yourself, not as a

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Speaker 1: punishment to this person essentially, but to express that you

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Speaker 1: are going to take care of yourself in some way.

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Speaker 1: So let's say an example. So I feel, and I'm

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Speaker 1: using this making this up, I feel sad, scared, and

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Speaker 1: angry when I hear people talk about calories and exercise

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Speaker 1: while I'm eating dinner at the dinner table. What it

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Speaker 1: brings up from me is old feelings that I used

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Speaker 1: to have around food and my worth and things that

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Speaker 1: I've been working through. And what I need is a

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Speaker 1: safe place to eat my meals and so like to

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Speaker 1: ask for calorie talk and exercise talk to be something

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Speaker 1: that is not happening at meal times at the dinner table.

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Speaker 1: If this is something that you're not able to do,

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Speaker 1: what I'm going to have to take care of myself

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Speaker 1: and in that I might not be able to eat

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Speaker 1: dinner with you all anymore because I have to take

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Speaker 1: care of my health. That's it very simple. It can

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Speaker 1: sound harsh because we're not used to being direct, but

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Speaker 1: that was a very kind, non blamey thing to do.

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Speaker 1: We're calling out the judgment that the judgment I make

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Speaker 1: or the story makeup. We're saying, this is a story,

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Speaker 1: and so you can check that out with them. You

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Speaker 1: can say, is that story true? It's not blame me.

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Speaker 1: It's all talking about you and your experience. So it

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Speaker 1: really encourage you to walk into a conversation with your

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Speaker 1: coworker like that. And here's the thing. They might not care,

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Speaker 1: but I think before you make any other moves, it's

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Speaker 1: very important for you to make sure that I've done

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Speaker 1: what I can do, rather than blame this all on

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Speaker 1: the other person not caring or being horrible or whatever. Now,

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Speaker 1: in the end, they might be a toxic person. You

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Speaker 1: might not be able to work with them, but this

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Speaker 1: is what you can control in that aspect before you

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Speaker 1: move on to other ways to to cope and deal. Now,

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Speaker 1: if none of that makes any difference and none of

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Speaker 1: it works, I think you do have to think about

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Speaker 1: what are you willing to sacrifice to stay in the

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Speaker 1: current role you have. If your boss knows this takes

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Speaker 1: a toll on you, but nothing is done to change,

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Speaker 1: or help or encourage, then do you feel supported by

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Speaker 1: your work environment or do you feel pushed to the side.

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Speaker 1: If the pain and anxiety that comes with working with

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Speaker 1: this person isn't worth what you get from the job,

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Speaker 1: then I think it's okay for you to think about

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Speaker 1: other options. And that might not be what anybody wants

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Speaker 1: to hear, but we really have to look at that.

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Speaker 1: If nothing can change and nothing is going to change,

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Speaker 1: you have to ask yourself is this experience worth what

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Speaker 1: I'm getting from this job. I'm not telling you to

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Speaker 1: quit your job. I'm just asking you to get curious

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Speaker 1: about what you're willing to sacrifice for the job and

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Speaker 1: what do you get in return for that sacrifice? Is

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Speaker 1: it enough? Okay? Then maybe what you have to do

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Speaker 1: is take a lot of time to remind yourself what

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Speaker 1: you do love about this job. It's really easy for

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Speaker 1: us to harp on things that we don't like, and

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Speaker 1: then we actually forget about the things we do like.

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Speaker 1: And so what if you took some time to like

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Speaker 1: every day, write down things I enjoyed this at work today.

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Speaker 1: And they could be super small, but I also think

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Speaker 1: the super super small things can be really important. They

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Speaker 1: can be really really important. And I would suggest that

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Speaker 1: to anybody who is having a hard time trying to

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Speaker 1: find the goodness in your work environments or home environments

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Speaker 1: or relationships. When all you can do is focus on

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Speaker 1: the ick and any circumstances, we're going to have things

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Speaker 1: we don't like in our relationships and our friendships and

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Speaker 1: our our partners, our marriages, our work, our family. There's

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Speaker 1: always gonna be something that we don't like, and we

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Speaker 1: can choose to like harp on that, and in that

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Speaker 1: we miss out on opportunities to grab onto the goodness.

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Speaker 1: And the goodness might not might be really small, it

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Speaker 1: might seem meaningless, but when you have a lot of

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Speaker 1: those little goodness is next to each other, they make

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Speaker 1: a really really big difference. And might be more important

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Speaker 1: than that thing that you've been harping on. So I

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Speaker 1: wish I could give you direct answers and tell you

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Speaker 1: how to fix this problem that we know how this goes,

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Speaker 1: and I can't usually ever do that, even with my

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Speaker 1: own clients. So I really want to encourage you to

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Speaker 1: get curious around the sacrifices your make and what and

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Speaker 1: what you're getting out of this job and what you

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Speaker 1: love about it. I encourage you to look at the

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Speaker 1: difference between discomfort and safety and what's keeping people and

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Speaker 1: you away from having a care frontation. It's just a

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Speaker 1: spin on the word confrontation with this human being and

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Speaker 1: when encourage you to express yourself and speak your needs

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Speaker 1: and and make what you feel important and known. That's

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Speaker 1: really one of the most important things that we can

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Speaker 1: do for ourselves is make our experiences known. So, like always,

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Speaker 1: I hope that was helpful in some way. And if

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Speaker 1: you guys have questions, you can also send them to

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Speaker 1: me at Catherine at you Need Therapy podcast dot com.

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Speaker 1: You can follow the podcast at You Need Therapy podcast

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Speaker 1: on Instagram. You can follow me at Cat dot de

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Speaker 1: fata on Instagram, And I hope that you guys, just

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Speaker 1: have whatever day of the week it is that you

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Speaker 1: need to have and I will talk to you guys

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Speaker 1: on Monday.