1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: today's best minds, and Donald Trump has lost his federal 4 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: appeal on immunity in the Egene Carroll case. We have 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: such a great show for you today. Former Senator Barbara 6 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:21,479 Speaker 1: Boxer stops by to tell us her big idea on 7 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,319 Speaker 1: how we can fix immigration in America. Then we'll talk 8 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: to Nixonland author Rick Pearlstein about how hard it is 9 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: to cover American politics right now. 10 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:33,279 Speaker 2: But first we have the host of. 11 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 1: The Mary Trump Show, the one the Only Mary Trump. 12 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 1: Welcome back too, Fast Politics, Mary Trump, Thank you, Molly, 13 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: Doug Fast, you and I. You know, it's funny because 14 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:48,840 Speaker 1: when we were talking a minute ago, I was thinking about, 15 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: like all of the many things that Trump tried during 16 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: his administration that didn't work, from the Muslim band to 17 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: the fact that he was going to create his his 18 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: own Twitter, to his remember when he was going to 19 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: create like a multi media empire. 20 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 2: Do you remember that I do it? 21 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 3: Deed? 22 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: It just strikes me that the only thing Trump has 23 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 1: been able to really do well is intimidate Republican politicians. 24 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 3: And many in the corporate media as well. 25 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, although I think that's more about money than intimidation. 26 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 3: But yes, there is not one Republican politician. 27 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 4: I'm aware of or we're you know, we're going to 28 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 4: need a bigger microscope, that is, any spine left because 29 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 4: they're either intimidated by him, or they're one hundred percent 30 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 4: in lock step with him, or like somebody like Eli Stephanik. 31 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 4: They are just the most grasping opportunists to believe that 32 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 4: their power in the future laws was sticking with him. 33 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: On Saturday, at least, Topnik gave an interview to Christen 34 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: Walker Press where she said she didn't think of the 35 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: January sixth criminals, the people in jail for crimes, right, 36 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: those people, She thought of them as hostages. It was important, 37 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: I think because Trump had that weekend in Iowa shopped 38 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:19,959 Speaker 1: this way of interpreting normal reality right, that they were 39 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: not criminals, they were hostages. And then Stefanik said the same. 40 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: I see this helps the schism between the Republican base 41 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: and reality grow. 42 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 2: But I'm curious what your take is. 43 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 4: Well, one of the things that we're talking about that 44 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 4: statement is it was not the worst thing she said 45 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 4: in this horrific. 46 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 3: We can't even call it an interview. 47 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 2: What was the worst thing? She said that. 48 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 4: She is willing not to certify the results of the 49 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 4: twenty twenty four election. That's the next link in the 50 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 4: chain that they're forging. Well as for the hostages thing, 51 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 4: we've heard people like Marjorie Green and Fucker Carlson use 52 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 4: similar language the past. Again, because it doesn't get pushed 53 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 4: back and you don't have Republicans saying word to the contrary, 54 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 4: it becomes a viable talking point. And I think one 55 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 4: of the things that's begune happening since we're an election 56 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 4: season and clearly Donald's going to be the nominee, is 57 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 4: that he sends up a trial balloon and he doesn't 58 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 4: just double down on it. All of his surrogates begins 59 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 4: to as well. So Stephanis thinks her job, well, her 60 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 4: job is to sort of spread the word and do 61 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 4: a version of what Donald does. Is just to get 62 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 4: people in your to these vicious laws and change people's 63 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 4: perception of reality of what's right and what's wrong. And 64 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 4: if you have a corporate media who's willing to just 65 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 4: roll over and let it slide, then we're in serious 66 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 4: trouble because we allready know that significant numbers of Republicans 67 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 4: think that January six was Antifa or BLM or the FBI. 68 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 4: It's like, okay, if you think that January six insurrectionists 69 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 4: who've either been convicted or have fled guilty. By the way, 70 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 4: you know, the vast majority of them pled guilty, Like 71 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 4: two people were found not guilty, and the vast majority 72 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 4: led guilty themselves. So if you believe there are hostages, 73 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 4: then you think that it was perfectly okay for them 74 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 4: to destroy the lives of the Capitol police officers who 75 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:34,719 Speaker 4: were trying to defend the capital. 76 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: This is your uncle right, who has created this alternative reality, right, 77 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: this Earth two situation or uncle right? I mean, obviously 78 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 1: you have no responsibility here, but I mean you're just 79 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: he I mean, you need not be sad. But the 80 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 1: thing I always wonder about the Donald Trump origin story 81 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: of which you are too familiar. Did this happen like 82 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,720 Speaker 1: when you knew him? I mean, did the man just 83 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: happens into a perfect storm of Republican sycovancy or was 84 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: he in some way as an evil genius? 85 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 3: Oh no, there's nothing genius about him. 86 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 5: I know. 87 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,279 Speaker 3: You mean that in an idiot savant kind of way. 88 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:24,599 Speaker 4: But even so, yes, he has his he has his skills. 89 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 4: I still find the shocking. He's capable of finding people 90 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 4: who are weaker than he is to do his bidding. 91 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:33,600 Speaker 4: And he does have a figure on the pulse of 92 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 4: what motivates what negative things motivate people, you know, the hatred, 93 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 4: the division, because he knows he can't win on a 94 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 4: level playing field, so he needs those things. It's all 95 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 4: in service to him, right, But think of it this way. 96 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 4: If he had no support, if he had no enablers, 97 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 4: if the media. 98 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,239 Speaker 3: Weren't in his corner. 99 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 4: If the entire structure of the United States government work 100 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 4: well in the tag for the visuous minority, right. 101 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 3: Donald wouldn't be able to get a job at a 102 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 3: car walk. 103 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 4: No disrespect to people who work in car washes, because 104 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 4: that's actually harder work than he's ever done in it life. 105 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 6: Right. 106 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 4: The tragedy here is that at every step along the way, 107 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 4: there have been enough people with enough power and enough 108 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 4: money to keep this myth going. There are a legitimate 109 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 4: businessman out there who've been wildly successful. Obviously, nobody can 110 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 4: come a billionaire with that government assistance and all sorts 111 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,039 Speaker 4: of breaks. But there are people out there who you 112 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 4: know would be, if not as successful, still very very 113 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 4: successful even without the perks and the help. 114 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 3: He is not one of most people. 115 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:52,600 Speaker 2: It's funny because I think so much about. 116 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: This idea of why we're struggling so hard in the 117 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 1: mainstream media to cover Trump. 118 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:04,840 Speaker 2: Trump is the rise to authoritarianism. 119 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: And one of the things we suffer with when it 120 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: comes to the mainstream media, and it's particularly true in 121 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: print journalism. 122 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 2: It's really hard. 123 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: Is this framing that for years and years, hundreds of 124 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: years we've used to great success, which is Party A 125 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: says this, Party B says this. But the problem is 126 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: when Party B says it's raining pink cotton candy. You 127 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: can't repeat what Party B says because it's a lie. 128 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: And that is fundamentally where we are right now. 129 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 4: Absolutely, and you could say the same thing about the 130 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 4: Democratic Party. They continue to function within a paradigm that 131 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 4: no longer exists, and I see that shifting a little bit. 132 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 4: I think Joe Biden's recent speeches have been more direct. 133 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 4: He's more willing to call Donald names, which I know 134 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 4: that sounds absurd, but that's important. It's important that he 135 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 4: called him a loser and things like that. The corporate 136 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 4: media are woefully not prepared for this moment for that 137 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 4: very reason. They think fairness means listening to both sides 138 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 4: without commentary, you know, that allowing both sides to present 139 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 4: their case without pushback. And as you said, that means 140 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 4: that one side gets to amplify its laws to a 141 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 4: degree that overtakes facts and truth. 142 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: It is a real, like fundamental problem of bad faith actors. 143 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 2: It's funny because it's like with Trump. 144 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: I come from the same town as him, right, not 145 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: Long Island, but but Manhattan. 146 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 4: I lived in the city Queens this Queen's right, New 147 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 4: York City, I mean, but not Manhattan, totally down Manhattan. 148 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,319 Speaker 3: We called Manhattan the city even though Queen's is. 149 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, I grew up in that same you know, 150 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: nineteen eighties New York. The thing that crafted Donald Trump 151 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: was in some ways the thing that crafted me, though 152 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: I was much younger, thank god. But I think a 153 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 1: lot about this idea of like the kind of behavior, 154 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:07,479 Speaker 1: the kind of like I want to say, like nihilistic 155 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 1: sort of killer instinct, you know, the way that people 156 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: in New York steal each other's calves. Right, there is 157 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 1: not a supposition of good faith. When Trump came along 158 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: to Washington, what little sort of good faith there was 159 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,319 Speaker 1: in Washington, he really was able to get rid of it. 160 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 3: Yes he was. 161 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 4: That's training. That was my family. There's no good faith. 162 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 4: There's no assumption that because your family you're going to 163 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 4: be treated well, or because your family you deserve to 164 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 4: share in what everybody else shares in. It's you're the 165 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 4: wrong kind of person. And think about words like kind, sensitive, generous, funny, sweet, 166 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:54,679 Speaker 4: words like that that if you have a child, do 167 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 4: you want your child to be surrounded by people who 168 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 4: could be described with those words. In my family, that 169 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 4: means or a fucking loser. And you don't deserve to 170 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 4: breathe air. You know, you just are not. 171 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 3: There is no place for you on this planet. 172 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 4: If you were a kind, generous, sensitive soul, you know, 173 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 4: you may as well just walk right off. 174 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 3: Basically, this is the mentality. 175 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 4: And you know what's amazing about this is that Donald 176 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 4: had to develop this veneer of toughness, this veneer of 177 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 4: being a you know, a killer, which is what my 178 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 4: grandfather required. But as we've seen over the last seven years, 179 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 4: when he's been on the national stage in politics. That's 180 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:45,359 Speaker 4: really just window dressing, because he is the weakest, whiniest, 181 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 4: most aggrieved person on the planet who only just goes 182 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 4: on and on about how he's he's been treated badly. 183 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:59,079 Speaker 4: So that doesn't seem like strength to me. And yet 184 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 4: it's a name to push again, not just push against. 185 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 4: But again we're talking about Donald's few skills. One of 186 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 4: them is pushing the envelope to see how much he 187 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 4: can get away with, getting away with it, and then 188 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 4: pushing the envelope some more, right, so he doesn't just 189 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 4: go in and break something. 190 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 3: He tests it. He tests the you know, he puts. 191 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 4: Stress on the joint, and if they don't break, they bend, 192 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 4: then he stresses the more. And we've seen that right 193 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 4: now in American politics, there is no such thing as tradition. 194 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 4: There are no such things as norms. There are no 195 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 4: such thing. And now he's trying to do the same 196 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 4: thing with our actual rule of law because he's gotten 197 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 4: so far with so much help. 198 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:47,199 Speaker 1: It's such a weird thing to think that, like the 199 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: dumbest member of your family, that's a question, could destroy 200 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: American democracy because the other people were scared of his 201 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 1: mean tweets. 202 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 2: Not to put too. 203 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:05,079 Speaker 4: Fine a point on it, you know, it's a perfectly 204 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 4: fine fine point. So, first of all, Donald is not 205 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 4: the dumbest person in my family, and I'm sorry, well, 206 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,959 Speaker 4: you know it's it's we have so much to choose from. 207 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 4: I mean, if we include past members. 208 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:24,959 Speaker 3: Of my family, including to those current members, he's also 209 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 3: not the worst person ever. 210 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 4: In my family, which is really really saying something. 211 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 3: He's the worst because of the power that he's been added. Right, 212 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 3: it just shows you how. 213 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 4: If you if you convince somebody and it's in a 214 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 4: weird way, like we see the same thing with White Priblet, 215 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,559 Speaker 4: if you convince somebody that their need for power is 216 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 4: based on their needing to cheat liar steel, and you 217 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 4: convince them that that power is the only thing ed 218 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 4: is going to make them relevant as people, then you 219 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 4: can manipulate them. Because there's no other explanation for this 220 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 4: current Republican party. Clearly, power has become an end in itself. 221 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:18,559 Speaker 4: They don't care about anything else, and you know, possibly 222 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 4: because they see the alternative, and I'm sure that you 223 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 4: know Donald spent his most of his life feeling this way. 224 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 3: The alternative is annihilation. 225 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 2: Right, The alternative is annihilation. But the problem is that 226 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,679 Speaker 2: winning is also annihilation. 227 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 4: Well for us, yes, violation for us. 228 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 2: Right, it's hilarious because it's terrifying. 229 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: You know, we didn't know each other before the first 230 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:49,199 Speaker 1: before twenty fifteen. 231 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 3: We didn't know each other before twenty twenty. Yeah really Yeah. 232 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 4: I book came out in July twenty twenty, and I'm 233 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 4: pretty sure do you miss that? 234 00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 2: I think of you as very much not a person. 235 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 1: Oh would be doing this if it weren't absolutely necessary. 236 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 3: It's almost impossible to imagine, quite honestly, to tell. 237 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,079 Speaker 4: You the truth, twenty sixteen to twenty twenty were pretty 238 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 4: freaking horrible, and I think given the circumstances, it's better 239 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 4: to be able to have a voice and have community 240 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 4: than just suffer silent, which is what I was doing, yeah, 241 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 4: first four years, because it was so devastating and isolating 242 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 4: in a particular way. So what I miss is the 243 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 4: before times and not the before COVID times, before November 244 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 4: twenty sixteen times. 245 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 2: Right when things were just so much lower stakes. 246 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 3: Yeah. 247 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: One of the many reasons why I really like you 248 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: so much and respect you so much is because I 249 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 1: know how uncomfortable. This is for you, and I know 250 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 1: that you are really so committed to the cause of 251 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: trying to keep American democracy going, which is so by 252 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: the way, to have one only one party believe in 253 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: it is how we got here. 254 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 4: Right, to have one party completely willing to throw everything 255 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 4: away cynically. You know, if they were doing it for 256 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 4: ideological reasons, it would still be terrible. But to know 257 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 4: that that almost to a person, they have literally no convictions, 258 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 4: that's somehow worse because I think it makes the project 259 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 4: of rebuilding that much harder. 260 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 3: I hope I'm wrong about that. 261 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 4: It makes it almost impossible to trust in their ability 262 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 4: to have integrity in the future. 263 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 3: You know, so what do we do? You know, who 264 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 3: are we going to be dealing with assuming there is 265 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 3: a post twenty twenty four? 266 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 2: Mary Trump, you are the greatest. I hope you'll come back. 267 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: Barbara Boxer is a former senator from the great state 268 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: of California. Welcome to Fast Politics, Former Senator. I'm going 269 00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: to call you former Senator Barbara Boxer. Hi, I'm so 270 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: glad to have you. And you know, one of the 271 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: things I'm struck by in the pundit industrial complex, of 272 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: which I am a member. Is that it feels like 273 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: we forget very recent history all the time. 274 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's because it's twenty four to seven. 275 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 6: It's of the moment, and there's something very exciting about that, 276 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 6: but you also lose something in terms of the depth 277 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 6: of looking at what happened before. 278 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: So one of the reasons why I wanted to have 279 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: you on this podcast is that you know a lot 280 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: of stuff. You and I met each other over the 281 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: Christmas break and we were talking about immigration. You were 282 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: senator from California for a long time in Congress before that, 283 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: and Republicans are at least pretending that they want a 284 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: solution to the immigration I don't even want to call 285 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 1: it a crisis because where we are right now, we 286 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: have a population that's declining and I think a labor 287 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: force that needs people. 288 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 2: But it has been painted as a crisis. 289 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 6: You know, you can give it whatever name you want, 290 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 6: and some days it feels like a crisis and some 291 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 6: days it feels like it's okay. 292 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 3: But the situation is this. 293 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 6: You talk about of the moment and looking back after 294 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 6: we had our little lovely meeting, and I enjoyed it 295 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 6: so much. 296 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:19,399 Speaker 3: Molly, I don't know. 297 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,879 Speaker 6: I guess I was tweeting about immigration and somebody posted, 298 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 6: listen to this a press conference from nineteen ninety three 299 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 6: where I was at the border with Senator find Stein, 300 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:35,120 Speaker 6: my colleague, oh wow, and Janet Reno, the Attorney general, 301 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 6: because we had quote a crisis at the border. We 302 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 6: have always had issues at the border, and the last 303 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:48,400 Speaker 6: comprehensive immigration reform that we had was when Ronald Reagan 304 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 6: was president. 305 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:51,439 Speaker 3: And I sort of hate to admit it, but I 306 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 3: was there. I was in the House, and that's good. 307 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:59,399 Speaker 6: In nineteen old and six, can you imagine and bottom 308 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 6: line we passed it and what was it and why 309 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 6: did it work? Because as we took what Democrats wanted, 310 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 6: what Republicans wanted, we married them up and we got 311 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:12,479 Speaker 6: a path of citizenship for those who've been here for 312 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 6: a long time with clean records, and we also secured 313 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:19,640 Speaker 6: the border. That was nineteen eighty six. We know how 314 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 6: to do this thing, and where we're at now is 315 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 6: not too complicated to see. Republicans don't want a solution, 316 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 6: they want the issue. The issue is potent. You show 317 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 6: people walking in. You had the Santists say yesterday, oh, 318 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 6: if you go ahead and remove Trump from the ballot 319 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:39,680 Speaker 6: because he's an insurrectionist. 320 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 3: He says, I'm going to say Biden's. 321 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 6: An insurrectionist because there's an invasion at the border. 322 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,880 Speaker 3: And he was so excited to say that. So this 323 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:49,919 Speaker 3: is where it's at. 324 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 6: And you know, when people say it's too complicated, I 325 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 6: always get upset because we can solve this problem. 326 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 3: We need to surge our resource rus to the border. 327 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,400 Speaker 6: Everyone has a right to a hearing if they meet 328 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,919 Speaker 6: certain provisions of our law, which says they have to 329 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:11,919 Speaker 6: be fearful for their lives. They have a right to 330 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:15,399 Speaker 6: have a hearing if that's the case. So if you 331 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 6: move the resources to the border, which takes some money, 332 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,199 Speaker 6: bidens it. You can have the National Guard and do 333 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 6: some of the administrative work and get more folks out there. 334 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 3: You can have the judges out there. This can be fixed. Period. 335 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,360 Speaker 1: I want to pause and like rewind a little bit. 336 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: The way we got here is there is right now 337 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 1: almost no path to citizenship in this country. 338 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:38,680 Speaker 3: Well, there is a path to citizenship. 339 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 6: It takes a long time, but yes, there's a definite path, 340 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 6: and there's certain numbers of people who can qualify. Every year, 341 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 6: it's a certain number it changes every year and don't 342 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 6: know the exact number. 343 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 3: And that's all fine, and that's all working. 344 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 2: But it's very small. It's problematic, right. 345 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,399 Speaker 1: It isn't producing the number of workers that you would 346 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 1: need in order for the economy to grow. 347 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 3: That's the truth. 348 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 6: We do need more workers and that's a big plus 349 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 6: of having immigration that works. So, as you know, a 350 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 6: lot of our mayors and the big cities have said 351 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 6: to the President, what will really help the cities who 352 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 6: are taking the brunt of the illegal immigration right now 353 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,439 Speaker 6: because we don't have those resources at the border and 354 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 6: people they just get a stamp and they can go 355 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 6: stay with their relatives, so they're all over the country, 356 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 6: but they can't work, most of them. So that takes 357 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 6: executive actions. So Biden has done that for I believe 358 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 6: the ven is to wetlands, but yes, I mean, look 359 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 6: here in California, we always have a lack of agricultural workers, 360 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 6: that's for sure. So look, LOLLI, we have a broken 361 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 6: immigration system. We need the workers. We know that we 362 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 6: have to control the border, but we need a better 363 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 6: way to allow the immigration system to function. 364 00:20:58,560 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 3: That makes sense. 365 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,199 Speaker 6: The people who are in fear for their lives have 366 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 6: a total right to a hearing to make their case. 367 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 6: If they're just coming here because they can't get economic 368 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 6: opportunity in their country, that's not allowed under the law. 369 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: Because the idea here is that asylum seekers are coming 370 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 1: because they're in danger. So your idea is to move 371 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: these courts to the border. Explain to us exactly how 372 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: you envision this happening. 373 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,639 Speaker 6: Yes, it's just like you move resources to where they're needed. 374 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 6: For example, if God's forbid, there's an earthquake, and Lord knows, 375 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 6: we've gone through that, FEMA sets up temporary living places 376 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 6: for people while they get their homes fixed. We've done 377 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 6: these things where we can shift resources to where they 378 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 6: are needed. Natural disasters is one example. This is a 379 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:54,879 Speaker 6: situation that I believe means this kind of change, and 380 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,400 Speaker 6: it just takes some supplemental funding. 381 00:21:58,280 --> 00:21:58,880 Speaker 3: To do it. 382 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 6: And again use as a national guard to erect these 383 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 6: new buildings in these places. It's going to make total 384 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 6: difference because you'd be able to respond to people right now, 385 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 6: it's taking literally years for people to get an answer. 386 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 3: Well, that's sort of a crazy system. 387 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:19,880 Speaker 6: But they're here a few years and then they find 388 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 6: out they need to go back I mean, that's crazy. 389 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 1: So the idea was immediately you would have a judge there. 390 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: He would listen to the cases he or she. You know, 391 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: you have people come over the border, they whatever change, 392 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,920 Speaker 1: get sort of medical help, and then they get lawyers. 393 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,919 Speaker 1: They would talk to the court immediately and you wouldn't 394 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,479 Speaker 1: get an answer within twenty four hours. 395 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 6: Maybe it would be a little longer, Molly, because we 396 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:50,679 Speaker 6: do have the ability right now to take care of 397 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 6: people for in on months. But you move it up, 398 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 6: they would not have to leave. They would get their 399 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:01,679 Speaker 6: answer and move on. And then point that we really 400 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,200 Speaker 6: do have a shortage of workers. There ought to be 401 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 6: a worker program, which we've had in the past, and 402 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 6: we had under the Ronald Reagan compromise. There were workers 403 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 6: that were able to if they didn't meet the refugee 404 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 6: requirement of imminent danger, they could work here and have 405 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 6: a worker's permit. And if they were good and they've 406 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 6: worked and they they played by the rules, eventually they 407 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 6: became assistants. So these are the things that we can do. 408 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 6: But this makes the most important question of all do 409 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 6: the Republicans really want to solve this? And I could 410 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 6: tell you being in politics, so very long. You know, 411 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:42,640 Speaker 6: it was ten years in the House, twenty four years 412 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,439 Speaker 6: in the Senate, six years before that local government. I 413 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 6: know when a party wants an issue and doesn't want 414 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,639 Speaker 6: a resolution, it happens a lot. I've seen it on 415 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 6: both sides from time to time. But this thing is 416 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 6: just awful because it is you know, a lot of 417 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 6: lives or at stake here and a lot of you know, 418 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 6: well being of children and families are at stake, and 419 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 6: we need to fix it. And it isn't that complicated 420 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 6: to do it. 421 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 3: It's just the will. 422 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,719 Speaker 6: And right now the President's been answering for supplemental funding 423 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 6: to serve some of these resources to the border, and 424 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 6: of course there's said nothing coming from the other side. 425 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 6: They say, well, we don't think it's about money. Really, 426 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 6: do they ever have to send their kids to college 427 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 6: and get them housing. Everything has a price. But if 428 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:33,959 Speaker 6: we can set this up in the right way and 429 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 6: we married up with worker program, we're going to be 430 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 6: the better for it. I saw many many studies that 431 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 6: came out of USC how important immigration is to my 432 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 6: stake and how what a benefit it is, billions of 433 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 6: thousand a year of benefit because you get the workers 434 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 6: and if you look at the entrepreneurs, the entrepreneurs, they're 435 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,399 Speaker 6: huge numbers. Twenty five thirty percent of them are immigrants, 436 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 6: and they've become super successful. So this is a if 437 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 6: I can say it's a made up crisis in this sense, 438 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 6: it doesn't have to be a crisis. 439 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:08,200 Speaker 3: They know it. 440 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 6: The question is do the American people know it at 441 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 6: this point, I don't know. And their whole thing. Look, 442 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,440 Speaker 6: one of them, said, one of the members of Congress, 443 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 6: a gentleman I don't remember his name, is said out loud, 444 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 6: I don't want to do anything because I don't want 445 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 6: it to help Joe Biden. 446 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 2: Right, all right, I remember that. 447 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 3: These mega people. 448 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 6: The thing about them is they just blurt it out 449 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 6: like their great orange leader. 450 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,880 Speaker 3: Oh I'm going to be a dictator. But on day 451 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 3: one and only day one. 452 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 6: Well, if you declare martial law on day one, democracy 453 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 6: is over. They say it out loud. 454 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,159 Speaker 1: One of the things that I'm struck by is just 455 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: how much immigration really feels like the only thing Republicans 456 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: have to run on right now, right because economy is 457 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 1: getting much better. They no abortion. I mean a lot 458 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: of their ideas have gotten so right wing. I mean, 459 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,719 Speaker 1: it's funny because it's like you were in the Senate 460 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: at the time and in the House during Ronald Reagan. 461 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 1: But Republicans seem like they've really moved to the right 462 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: on a lot of things. 463 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 6: Well, that, my friend, Molly, is the biggest understatement I've 464 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 6: heard all day. I mean, moved to the right. They're 465 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 6: off the cliff. They have fallen off the cliff. You 466 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 6: know how people say, and Biden said, you know, this 467 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,879 Speaker 6: is not my grandpa's Republican party. I remember, you know, 468 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 6: I always hate when old people say I remember. 469 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 3: But I remember when Mahis. 470 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 6: Dad was for Eyes an Hour and my mother was 471 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 6: Stevenson and my father went around with his I like button. 472 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,640 Speaker 3: I said, Daddy tell me that, well, he's a hero. 473 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 6: And he said, we spent too much on the military 474 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:51,640 Speaker 6: and we need to invest in education. 475 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:53,760 Speaker 3: That was Dwight eisen an Hour. 476 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 6: And again here's Ronald Reagan doing this amnesty build. That's 477 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 6: what it was called, and that's what was if you 478 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 6: were in this country, you got adamsty you got a 479 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 6: clean record. Yeah, there is no relationship to this Maga crowd. 480 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 6: And my hope is that the reasonable Republicans and we 481 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 6: see a lot of them in your field of work. 482 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:16,160 Speaker 3: In the media, we. 483 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: See a lot of them retiring from the house as 484 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:20,200 Speaker 1: quickly as possible. 485 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 3: There were tired. 486 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 6: But we also see very young people from my perspective, 487 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 6: you know, in their thirties in their forties on television 488 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 6: who used to be Republicans and say I can't do 489 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 6: this anymore. To say that the party of hate, I 490 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 6: mean they that's what they spew. It's all about division. 491 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 6: It's very frightening because it's the politics of grievance, and 492 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 6: everybody's got agreements, you know, everybody, So all of a sudden, 493 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 6: you go, you're unhappy about this. 494 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 3: Here's who to blame. 495 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 6: Blame those people over there who do look like you, 496 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 6: who don't love who you love. 497 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 3: So they'll keep that up. 498 00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,199 Speaker 6: So I think they have more than immigration, that's a 499 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 6: big one. But they also have, you know, the culture 500 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 6: wars that they will continue to perform. 501 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, they'll try whatever they can. 502 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 3: Oh yeah. 503 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: What I think is interesting about your border solution is 504 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 1: that there are problems in government that we can solve 505 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 1: by looking at things in a slightly different way, you know, 506 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: like the idea of setting up immigration courts on the 507 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 1: border is something we just haven't done right. Part of 508 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: the problem with immigration right now is that you have 509 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: these people that they're not being given work visas, so 510 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: they can't work, so they are then forced to be poor. 511 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 1: It's a self referring problem, right, it's it's a problem 512 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: that's created. 513 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 6: You've got it right, and these things can be curable 514 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 6: if you have the resources where they go. And again repeat, 515 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 6: we see that whenever there's a natural disaster, femus great 516 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 6: at that they bring their offices right right to the people, 517 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 6: even after you know, zooms and all of that, they 518 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 6: bring their offices right to the people. 519 00:28:57,840 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 3: They have housing. 520 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 6: That's temper. They did it in Louisiana. They do so 521 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 6: it's not like this is a born idea. And if 522 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 6: we marry up what you're saying, which is we need 523 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 6: workers with we need quicker decisions on asylum. Now you 524 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 6: have a system, and also you have people that need 525 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 6: to go back who don't meet any of that. And 526 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 6: that's just sad, but that's just true. You know, you 527 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 6: don't take every single person in. 528 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 3: You can't. 529 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 6: That's just the fact they have to wait in line 530 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 6: if they don't qualify. 531 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 2: Just between you and I and the listeners of this podcast. 532 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: I think we should take everyone because I think our 533 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: country has room for it, and I think that ultimately 534 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: our country was built on this idea that we are that. 535 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 3: I don't agree with that. 536 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 6: I think you need numbers that are fair and just 537 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 6: because you just if you went that way, it could 538 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 6: be handled. It just could not be handled. Think about 539 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 6: what's coming, climate change and everything else. 540 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 2: Though. 541 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 6: I think that's one place we don't agree. I think 542 00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 6: you need a system so that the people who need 543 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 6: get out of their countries because of fear of retaliation 544 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 6: and farm to their families, they should have a pathway in. 545 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 6: People who can work should have a pathway in, and 546 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 6: the others should. 547 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 3: Just sign up. 548 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 6: Because we do have a system that does allow you know, 549 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 6: hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people and legally every year. 550 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 3: I think that works. 551 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, if you had a solution where you had a 552 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 1: real pathway, it's deflationary. 553 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 2: If nothing else. 554 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 6: If you have a system that is true to the law, 555 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 6: which says people who have a legitimate fear of danger 556 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 6: by going back to their country and they get their 557 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 6: day quickly in front of a court, that's a blessing, 558 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 6: and they don't have to wait for years and then 559 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 6: be told they don't meet the requirements that have to leave. 560 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 6: That's just wrong and that's the cause of a lot 561 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 6: of the problems. So you need to have places for 562 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 6: people to stay that work out. We have good places 563 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 6: at the border, but not enough spaces at the borders. 564 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 6: We need more of and then a quick system so 565 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 6: they can be heard and their future is determined. If 566 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 6: you marry that up with a really good work system, 567 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 6: which employers who are usually the constituents that the Republicans 568 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 6: like to queens, that would be very good to our 569 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 6: business community to have a field of workers who could 570 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 6: just go out there and they have a special Lisa, 571 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 6: a work Lisa, and if they have good records, they 572 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 6: get to say and then the other people have to 573 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 6: wait their turn. 574 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 3: And the numbers that come in every year. 575 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 6: If they're too low, they can always be adjusted. But 576 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 6: I think you do have to have control over the border. 577 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 2: Barbera Boxer, Senator, thank. 578 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 6: You well, Thank you so much, Molly, and you know, 579 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:53,719 Speaker 6: keep on keeping on your very refreshing voice. 580 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 1: Rick Pearlstein is the author of Invisible Bridge and Regganland. 581 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 2: Welcome to Fast Politics, right. 582 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 1: Oh, it's great to be here, So I kind of 583 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 1: want to talk about nixon Land, how we got here. 584 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 2: You know, you are a historian. 585 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 1: I feel like one of the things I can do 586 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 1: with this podcast is talk to people who know history 587 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 1: and explain to them a little bit about the president. 588 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 1: You know, we are the United States of Amnesia, but 589 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 1: we don't have to be right. 590 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 5: Yes, yes, that's a great framing. I kind of fell 591 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 5: into this work in the middle of the nineteen nineties. 592 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 5: I was kind of looking for a subject to pursue 593 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 5: as a writer. I've been an editor and a magazine 594 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 5: kind of intellectual magazine writer in New York, and I 595 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 5: was obsessed with the sixties and fascinated by the sixties, 596 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 5: and you know, the fact that social change just seemed 597 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 5: to happen like every day, you know, just like some revolution. 598 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:49,719 Speaker 3: Every week, you know. 599 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 5: And I grew up just being absolutely riveted by those stories. 600 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 5: And then I kind of realized that, isn't it interesting 601 00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 5: that the hegemonic narrative about what the sixties were was 602 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 5: was you know, I held it the minivan commercial version 603 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 5: of the sixties, where you know, we were all marching 604 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 5: out in the streets, and I burned by bra and 605 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 5: Da Da Da da da. Now it's you know, great 606 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 5: and important, but no one had really thought about the 607 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 5: fact that the right kind of won the sixties. I mean, 608 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 5: Nick win election and then landslide reelection by running against 609 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 5: the sixties. You know, Reagan becomes governor of California kind 610 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 5: of running against the sixties, and then when it becomes president, 611 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 5: kind of running against the sixties. So studying the right 612 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 5: was just kind of an accident. It kind of started 613 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 5: right after new Gingrich took over Congress, and I had 614 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 5: kind of been very academically minded, really too critical theory, 615 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:39,400 Speaker 5: and I'm like, wow, I need to really understand my 616 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 5: fellow Americans. So that's how I kind of became sort 617 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 5: of an anthropologist of the non liberal tribes running. 618 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 1: Against the sixties, winning against the sixties. Do you think 619 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 1: that that's why Republicans were so obsessed with this idea 620 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: of Black Lives Matter and antifa like that they tried 621 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 1: so hard to blow it up because they knew enough 622 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: history to suspect that they could use those to win 623 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: in a way that Nixon an. 624 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, among you know, the further right free 625 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,759 Speaker 5: Sincs that say the quiet part out loud, the you know, 626 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 5: bronze age pervert types. You know, they'll explicitly say, wow, 627 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 5: if we can really stir up some real riots during 628 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,719 Speaker 5: this kind of Black Lives Matter protest, then we can 629 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 5: get our Caesar right, pulling back the frame even bigger. 630 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 5: I mean, the kind of flow, the kind of river 631 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,400 Speaker 5: like flow of progress and reaction that you know goes 632 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 5: back to the tempt to form, you know, a nation 633 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 5: in which all men are created equal, that was also 634 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:39,320 Speaker 5: obscarred by genocide and slavery. You know, it's kind of 635 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,760 Speaker 5: the big history and even you know, kind of bigger 636 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 5: frame for it is. You know, I say this in 637 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,720 Speaker 5: my article. I think that brought me to your attention today. 638 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 5: We're never less than halfway to civil warrans country in 639 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,320 Speaker 5: a lot of ways. By the same token, the elites 640 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,839 Speaker 5: often don't want to stare down into that abyss. And 641 00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,919 Speaker 5: what are the patterns I keep on recognizing ever since 642 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 5: studying how of the most influential journalists and pundits right 643 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 5: about politics ever since the fifties is they're always kind 644 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 5: of domesticating the scary stuff, you know, and they're always 645 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,359 Speaker 5: trying to kind of remind us that, oh well, deep down, 646 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:17,439 Speaker 5: America is a moderate centrist country. You know, everything that's 647 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 5: really scary is somehow kind of this exception. And you know, 648 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 5: the exceptions just keep on piling up and piling up 649 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 5: and piling up, and so'll wake up in twenty twenty 650 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,400 Speaker 5: one and the acceptions have become fascism. 651 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 6: Right. 652 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,319 Speaker 5: That's like the big story I've been telling. And it's 653 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:36,880 Speaker 5: a really hard story because all of our institutions of journalism, 654 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 5: you know, all the tools that journalists use, all the structures, 655 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 5: all the mental models, all the habits are all based 656 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 5: in this idea that we have these kind of you know, 657 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 5: kind of these sensible civil elections every four years, and 658 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,600 Speaker 5: the person who manages to persuade the most people gets 659 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 5: to be president, and the other guys go home and 660 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 5: they try to gain another four years. Well, that doesn't 661 00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,959 Speaker 5: really work when you have less than half the country afore, 662 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:01,800 Speaker 5: so let's do away with the fiction that these people 663 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,240 Speaker 5: ever come close to winning fifty percent of the vote. 664 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 5: You have half the country that's basically decided that they 665 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 5: have this almost well, it's called divide to rule, and 666 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,799 Speaker 5: that there are plenty of people who think that it's 667 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:17,800 Speaker 5: going to take violence in order to restore this divine 668 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 5: right against people who they don't really consider American at all. 669 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 5: And the word for this is fascism, and the Republicans 670 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 5: have become quite transparently fascist. I mean when you have 671 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,799 Speaker 5: someone like Elis Stephanic, who's you know, someone who puts 672 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:31,760 Speaker 5: their finger in the air and follows the main chance 673 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:35,360 Speaker 5: and literally saying, well, these hundreds of people who are convicted, 674 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,520 Speaker 5: they're hostages, convicted in courts, a law for rioting on 675 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 5: January sixth, from you know, venal sins to quite mortal ones, 676 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 5: you know, like chasing around the Capitol looking for people 677 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 5: to murder their hostages. Right, which is your way of saying, 678 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 5: higher legal system in the United States, the entire criminal justice 679 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,880 Speaker 5: system is illegitimate in the face of the true power 680 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,879 Speaker 5: of the country, which is this kind of will I agree? 681 00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:58,279 Speaker 2: I have two questions here. 682 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:02,520 Speaker 1: One is this is a growing schism right between what 683 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,240 Speaker 1: is true and what the base is told is true. 684 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 2: Right number one? And number two, I just. 685 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:12,080 Speaker 1: Wonder how much of this is this idea of white privilege. 686 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 1: Right that one of the things I've been struck by 687 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:18,720 Speaker 1: since Trump lost right in twenty twenty is at every 688 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 1: point people in the Republican Party, and even like mainstream 689 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 1: media people have said, well, just leave him, he's not 690 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,680 Speaker 1: going to do anything like just let him blow off 691 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:31,520 Speaker 1: some steam. Remember that Republican who said he's not overthrowing 692 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,440 Speaker 1: the election, he's just playing golf, right. You know that 693 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,040 Speaker 1: at every point people said, well, just let him be, 694 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:38,360 Speaker 1: he'll be fine. 695 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 5: Retic history really starts getting scary because the people who 696 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 5: have been best a kind of really showing us clearly 697 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,680 Speaker 5: what's happening in America are not in American historians. They're 698 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 5: European historians. And you know, it's a Tim Snyder's of 699 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,400 Speaker 5: the world. That's one of my favorite young writers. John 700 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,360 Speaker 5: gan So I interviewed for my column what has happened 701 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,200 Speaker 5: in Europe between World War One and World War Two? 702 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,799 Speaker 5: Or you know, kind of South America in the seventies. 703 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,799 Speaker 5: Sus understand America in a way that we're not used 704 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,920 Speaker 5: to thinking about America. And you know, one of the 705 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,239 Speaker 5: things that happened, both in the case of the successful 706 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:15,600 Speaker 5: fascist takeovers in Italy with Mussolini and Hitler in Germany, 707 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,880 Speaker 5: is that the kind of conservative elite said, don't worry 708 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 5: about Hitler, He's not gonna you know, street bugs are 709 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,280 Speaker 5: not going to take over the country and start murdering people. 710 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 5: You know, let him blow off steam. You know, he's 711 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 5: a frustrated painter. We'll be able to control them. And 712 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:33,239 Speaker 5: the actually this much more explicitly with the kind of 713 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,640 Speaker 5: mainstream opposition to fascism in the parliament. They would say, 714 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:39,799 Speaker 5: we'll make you know that this is this is the 715 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 5: crazy parallel. If Mussolini's party gets representation in parliament, you know, 716 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 5: then he'll become serious. 717 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 6: Right. 718 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:48,719 Speaker 5: Remember the joke we used to say that the media 719 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:50,960 Speaker 5: would always say this is the day Trump became president 720 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,920 Speaker 5: because he halfway read the telepropter straight right. So that 721 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:59,759 Speaker 5: is that's a very very strong pattern in how authoritarian 722 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:04,239 Speaker 5: gotnments happen because the people who should be the bulwarks, 723 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,560 Speaker 5: the garb rails, you know, out of fear, out of intimidation, 724 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 5: out of maybe a little bit of seduction by the 725 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,239 Speaker 5: fascist melentality themselves let it go. 726 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:17,400 Speaker 1: Part of it, though, is that they're covering unprecedented times 727 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,439 Speaker 1: and again I'm not giving anyone to cover here. 728 00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:23,280 Speaker 5: I wish more people recognized that and made the efforts right, right, 729 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:23,799 Speaker 5: So what. 730 00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,320 Speaker 1: Do you think though about this idea? That they can't 731 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,239 Speaker 1: meet the moment. The mainstream media does not have the 732 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 1: kind of and especially right now, that doesn't have. 733 00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:36,720 Speaker 5: What it means mainstream journalists who are saying, holy cow, 734 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,440 Speaker 5: the twenty twenty four election isn't just about votes. It's 735 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:42,799 Speaker 5: about how many guns one side might have. Right, how 736 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:44,840 Speaker 5: do you even wrap your mind around that? And how 737 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 5: do you go to the Iowa caucuses? 738 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:47,839 Speaker 3: You know? 739 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,440 Speaker 5: And that's a really hard question. And you know, I 740 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:53,640 Speaker 5: have this weekly column in the American Prospect called the 741 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,240 Speaker 5: Infernal Triangle, and one of the things I've started doing 742 00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,880 Speaker 5: is just interviewing really smart people and asking them that question. 743 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:00,239 Speaker 1: You know. 744 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:04,040 Speaker 5: I interviewed Jeff Charlotte, you know, the guy chased around 745 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:06,879 Speaker 5: Wisconsin for two years, and he's like, I don't want 746 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:08,880 Speaker 5: to say that this is fascism. But then he's like, 747 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,640 Speaker 5: when I meet a guy who has tattoos, you know, 748 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,000 Speaker 5: to talk about how much he likes shooting people, you know, 749 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:16,360 Speaker 5: decides that, you know, Trump is the manifestation of the 750 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,640 Speaker 5: Godhead and that you know, brown people are taking over 751 00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:19,080 Speaker 5: the country. 752 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:20,560 Speaker 3: I have no other choice, right. 753 00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:22,040 Speaker 5: So how do you do that? And I'm not going 754 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:23,880 Speaker 5: to say it's easy and I'm not even going to like, 755 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:27,480 Speaker 5: you know, necessarily bash you know, mainstream journalists. I'll do 756 00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,920 Speaker 5: a lot of that too. Here's what I would say, Basically, 757 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,400 Speaker 5: we have to open ourselves up because there have always 758 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:38,319 Speaker 5: been amazing, you know, alternative journalists who don't act this way, 759 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:40,040 Speaker 5: and they have to be kind of elevated. 760 00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:40,239 Speaker 4: Right. 761 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:43,680 Speaker 5: It's like during the Iraq War, Right, It's like posts 762 00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:47,680 Speaker 5: would say Satamusain has weapons of mass destruction, we must 763 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:49,880 Speaker 5: take them out. At the same day that's someone in 764 00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,640 Speaker 5: you know, like Mother Jones or the Nation or some blog. 765 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,200 Speaker 5: Here's proof that he doesn't have weapons of mass destruction. 766 00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:59,400 Speaker 5: And so, you know, we really have to open ourselves 767 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,560 Speaker 5: up to all trinment sources of authority. And you know, 768 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:04,680 Speaker 5: I would just you know implore on the behalf of 769 00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:08,200 Speaker 5: kind of mainstream journalists who you know, basically have to 770 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,640 Speaker 5: follow the rules of their profession in order to you know, 771 00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:15,040 Speaker 5: keep a job. You know, it's just open themselves up 772 00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,800 Speaker 5: to respect, you know, the people who have different ways 773 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:19,440 Speaker 5: of telling these stories. 774 00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:22,160 Speaker 2: Does that make sense, yes, for sure? 775 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,120 Speaker 1: And what But one of the things that I'm struck 776 00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:29,520 Speaker 1: by is like, you know, I wrote about this coverage 777 00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:33,759 Speaker 1: staff Foo, this weekend. Part of the old school framing, right, 778 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,640 Speaker 1: that we have done as print journals. I mean, you 779 00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,680 Speaker 1: and I are on the opinion side. That's a huge advantage, right, 780 00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:41,080 Speaker 1: being on the opinion side. 781 00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:42,319 Speaker 3: It's kind of this funny thing. 782 00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:42,560 Speaker 4: You know. 783 00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:44,279 Speaker 5: It's like there became a certain time during the Trump 784 00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,320 Speaker 5: administration whereas, okay, say this thing that Donald Trump is 785 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,400 Speaker 5: saying is false. The election wasn't stolen. There are a 786 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:52,759 Speaker 5: million things they could have done. They could have said, 787 00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:55,440 Speaker 5: you know, like when they were reporting the Tea Party, 788 00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,080 Speaker 5: you know, in two thousand and nine, and they said 789 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,520 Speaker 5: they call themselves tease down for texts stuff. Already, we 790 00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,680 Speaker 5: should note that Barack Obama cut taxes for ninety seven 791 00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,839 Speaker 5: percent of Americans, right, I mean, that's still look back, right, 792 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,040 Speaker 5: So there's a lot you can do within the rules 793 00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,239 Speaker 5: of objective journalism. Once they made this advance in the 794 00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,000 Speaker 5: New York Times of being able to use the L 795 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:18,239 Speaker 5: word about Donald Trump, right, the lie word, if not 796 00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:20,800 Speaker 5: the F word, then you can kind of open yourself 797 00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:25,239 Speaker 5: to saying, wow, the way they lie is systematic, and 798 00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,360 Speaker 5: you can kind of talk about individual instances instead of 799 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,200 Speaker 5: this poison, this profta like poison that every time you 800 00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:33,560 Speaker 5: say something bad about the Republicans, you have to say 801 00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:36,560 Speaker 5: it's something bad about the Democrats. In nineteen seventy two, 802 00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:39,400 Speaker 5: the Washington Post would always balance a story about, you know, 803 00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,239 Speaker 5: some burglar breaking in getting paid off by the White 804 00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:44,480 Speaker 5: House with a story about, you know, some loan that 805 00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,280 Speaker 5: George mcgofferin, who was a total boy scout, had taken. 806 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:48,040 Speaker 3: Something like that. 807 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:49,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I think that's right. 808 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:51,879 Speaker 1: The question I have for you is more about this 809 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:55,320 Speaker 1: idea that Republicans are being taken at their word. 810 00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:55,759 Speaker 2: Right. 811 00:42:55,960 --> 00:43:00,120 Speaker 1: So Byen has done something which is quite unusual if 812 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,680 Speaker 1: we were all normal, which were not because of nine 813 00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:06,120 Speaker 1: years of Trump. But Biden has, like he gave this 814 00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:08,440 Speaker 1: speech where he said, you know, Trump is an autocrat, 815 00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:12,480 Speaker 1: this is authoritarianism. You know, he was right to do it, 816 00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,759 Speaker 1: and I feel that he truly believed, and I think 817 00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:18,600 Speaker 1: he does believe that this could be our last election. 818 00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:22,080 Speaker 2: I was talking to a ranking Democrat in the House. 819 00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:24,080 Speaker 2: It was saying the same thing to me, and I 820 00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:24,839 Speaker 2: believe it too. 821 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,239 Speaker 1: I mean, this could be the end. Right, you think 822 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,000 Speaker 1: Trump is going to leave after four years? He barely 823 00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:33,080 Speaker 1: left last time. I mean, there's very recent history that 824 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,640 Speaker 1: will show that there's no way Trump leaves again. But 825 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:41,880 Speaker 1: then the responses in this conventional political framing was Biden 826 00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,359 Speaker 1: describes Trump as a danger to democracy. 827 00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:48,200 Speaker 5: Right. The tragic thing about that is, if there really is, 828 00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,719 Speaker 5: you know, a fascist takeover in America, they're not going 829 00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:55,000 Speaker 5: to say, Well, the New York Times, you know, MPR, 830 00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:57,520 Speaker 5: they're political journalists. They played it pretty straight with us. 831 00:43:57,560 --> 00:43:59,440 Speaker 5: They really kind of gave our side of the story. 832 00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:01,280 Speaker 5: So we're not going to align them against the wall. 833 00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:03,719 Speaker 5: We're not to say that they're part of the What 834 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:06,360 Speaker 5: did he say about the enemies of the people? 835 00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:06,759 Speaker 6: Right? 836 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:08,960 Speaker 5: So, I mean the fact of the matter is these 837 00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:12,719 Speaker 5: news organizations, whether they like it or not, in the 838 00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:14,560 Speaker 5: broadest sense of the term of you know, kind of 839 00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,320 Speaker 5: having an enlightenment proch to trying to uncover the truth 840 00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:19,879 Speaker 5: without fear or favor wherever the chips may fall, are 841 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,080 Speaker 5: liberal institutions, and they're going to be eyed by these 842 00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:26,720 Speaker 5: people and hated by these people in existential ways, whether 843 00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:30,359 Speaker 5: they quote unquote are fair to them or not. I mean, 844 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,719 Speaker 5: they're they're poisoning the blood, you know, whatever happens. So, 845 00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,120 Speaker 5: I mean, we know this is you know wrong, right, 846 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,719 Speaker 5: I mean it's like, you know, I mean, the little 847 00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:40,480 Speaker 5: exercise I do is what is this going to look 848 00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:42,520 Speaker 5: like fifty years from now? If you know, there if 849 00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:45,319 Speaker 5: there's an America and their American historians and they're going 850 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:47,960 Speaker 5: to say, oh, are they going to say, oh, well, 851 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:50,760 Speaker 5: you know, both sides had this disagreement about what American 852 00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:51,960 Speaker 5: democracy meant. 853 00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,960 Speaker 3: Or they look beyond the half line. Wait a sec. 854 00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:57,040 Speaker 5: There are all these people, you know, there are all 855 00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:59,239 Speaker 5: these millions of Americans who have guns and say that 856 00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:02,200 Speaker 5: they're too take themselves from tyrants. Oh and by the way, 857 00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:05,520 Speaker 5: the Democratic Party represents tyranny for you know, upholding the 858 00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,960 Speaker 5: idea that people should get vaccines was when there's an epidemic. Right, 859 00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:12,160 Speaker 5: it doesn't fit, it doesn't signify. So I mean, I 860 00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:14,560 Speaker 5: don't know what you do with these people, right, but 861 00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,120 Speaker 5: I mean I think, you know, maybe appealing to their 862 00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:20,000 Speaker 5: conscience in terms of you know, will they be at 863 00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,640 Speaker 5: fifty years from now as people who gave a useful 864 00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:26,640 Speaker 5: and accurate picture of reality, that you gave citizens the 865 00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:29,440 Speaker 5: tools to govern themselves, or will they be seen as 866 00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,319 Speaker 5: the way we see you know, the people who read 867 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:33,160 Speaker 5: VC France. 868 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:38,560 Speaker 1: You know, well, if there's a possible saving grace here, 869 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,880 Speaker 1: it's that a the economy is really good right in 870 00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:47,200 Speaker 1: Germany with Hitler, I mean people, I mean again, I'm Jewish. 871 00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:51,080 Speaker 5: So they're filling wheelbarrows with cash. Yeah, the joke was 872 00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:52,960 Speaker 5: Mussolini made the trains run on. 873 00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:56,280 Speaker 1: It is a very different America than it was Germany 874 00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:57,400 Speaker 1: in the thirties. 875 00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:01,080 Speaker 5: The severing from reality, from our representation and reality can 876 00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:04,120 Speaker 5: be very sm So the factor of metric. We want 877 00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:07,279 Speaker 5: to have hope as Democrats that oh, people vote on 878 00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:10,319 Speaker 5: the economy and they feel like their prospects are getting better. Well, 879 00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:12,319 Speaker 5: there's you know, kind of two things about that. First 880 00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,520 Speaker 5: of all, one of the things that's kind of the 881 00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:18,200 Speaker 5: tragedy of how the media does economic journalism is, you know, 882 00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:20,480 Speaker 5: there's just pile on pile on, pile on pile of 883 00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:23,280 Speaker 5: headline basically making it seem like the economy will collapse 884 00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:26,520 Speaker 5: any second because they're inflation. Does to kind of do 885 00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:28,880 Speaker 5: this both sides journalism. If they're mean to Trump, they 886 00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:30,960 Speaker 5: have to be you know, mean to Biden. But the 887 00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,319 Speaker 5: other thing is, ever since Ronald Reagan, and this is 888 00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:35,799 Speaker 5: you know, one of these very uncomfortable long structures of 889 00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,840 Speaker 5: history people have learned to kind of sever you know, 890 00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:42,040 Speaker 5: who they hire when they vote from you know, what 891 00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:44,920 Speaker 5: people actually do when they're public officials, Right, you're basically 892 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:49,000 Speaker 5: hiring like an administrator, like a CEO, hiring people administering 893 00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:51,720 Speaker 5: the government, coming up with policies, this kind. 894 00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:52,480 Speaker 3: Of technical work. 895 00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:55,320 Speaker 5: But we're basically, you know, have learned not to really 896 00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:58,120 Speaker 5: think of at least you know, the other side of 897 00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:00,640 Speaker 5: the aisle. The government is something that's real or good 898 00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:03,440 Speaker 5: or does stuff. So you basically just kind of see 899 00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:06,400 Speaker 5: people to vote for as you know, personalities, right, and 900 00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:09,560 Speaker 5: you know, basically these days kind of social media stars. 901 00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:12,080 Speaker 5: I'm going to be writing about this. Chris Hayes before 902 00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:13,920 Speaker 5: he was a you know, famous TV guy who's just 903 00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:16,080 Speaker 5: like this, you know, struggling young journalist in Chicago. And 904 00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:19,560 Speaker 5: he wrote this amazing piece in The New Republic in 905 00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:22,400 Speaker 5: two thousand and five about what it was like canvassing 906 00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:25,400 Speaker 5: among undecided voters in Wisconsin. And he would say, oh, 907 00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:28,360 Speaker 5: John Carrey has a plan to help you get health insurance, 908 00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:29,960 Speaker 5: he said, he would they would look at me like 909 00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:32,359 Speaker 5: I said, John Kerrey has a plan to fix your deck. Right, 910 00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:36,520 Speaker 5: There isn't that condition between what politicians do actually when 911 00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:39,000 Speaker 5: they get the job, and why we should vote for them. 912 00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,480 Speaker 5: I think the Democrats have to realize, you know, that 913 00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:44,360 Speaker 5: people see politicians the way they see politicians, they're not 914 00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:46,880 Speaker 5: going to be may suddenly go back to the fifties 915 00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:48,839 Speaker 5: where they're like, oh, you know, I got a nice 916 00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:51,640 Speaker 5: pay envelope last month, and they're building a damn you know, 917 00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:53,880 Speaker 5: ten miles away and they're creating a lot of jobs, 918 00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,319 Speaker 5: and you know it's going to make cheaper electricity. You know, 919 00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:58,839 Speaker 5: the Republicans have worked to kind of flood the zone 920 00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:02,080 Speaker 5: with shit basically since Ronald Reagan, the idea that government 921 00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:04,520 Speaker 5: is your enemy and that has had consequences, and that's 922 00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:06,879 Speaker 5: part of the tragedy we're facing right now. And it's 923 00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:08,560 Speaker 5: very hard and it's going to take more than one 924 00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:12,279 Speaker 5: election or five elections to really get people back on 925 00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:16,759 Speaker 5: track to understanding that, you know, democratic public policy that 926 00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:20,200 Speaker 5: works in the broad interests of material needs of most 927 00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:24,399 Speaker 5: Americans is something that you should actually hire someone to do. 928 00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:26,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good point. Thank you so much. 929 00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:27,120 Speaker 7: Rick. 930 00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:29,600 Speaker 2: I hope you'll come back anytime. 931 00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:37,640 Speaker 1: No moment, perfectly, Jesse Cannon, We're back, my John Fast. 932 00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,080 Speaker 7: I want to say congratulations. While we were gone across 933 00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:44,560 Speaker 7: two hundred episodes, this is somewhere around two thousand segments 934 00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:45,640 Speaker 7: you and I have taped together. 935 00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:49,560 Speaker 1: That means congratulations to us both. And you just celebrated 936 00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:53,240 Speaker 1: your birthday, so you are now officially older than I am. Again, 937 00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:57,600 Speaker 1: thank god those eight months a year more importantly than anything. 938 00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:01,480 Speaker 7: But on to the moment of Fuckery Stone, that tricky 939 00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:05,080 Speaker 7: little fellow. He tried to get a NYPD officer to 940 00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:08,960 Speaker 7: murder Eric Swalwell, friend of the show and Jerry Nadler. 941 00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:14,040 Speaker 2: And boss of the producer's squaw friend. Yes, full disclosure. 942 00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:16,319 Speaker 1: I have a lot of questions about the story, none 943 00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:18,640 Speaker 1: of which are is a true I think we all 944 00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:22,640 Speaker 1: agree it's true. Even the denials are non denials. And 945 00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:25,800 Speaker 1: you know so, I guess media I listen to the tape. 946 00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:28,759 Speaker 1: It's time to do what Stone told Greco. Let's go 947 00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:31,439 Speaker 1: find Swalwell. It's time to do it. Then we'll see 948 00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:33,319 Speaker 1: how brave the rest of them are. It's time to 949 00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:36,279 Speaker 1: do it. It's either Nadler or Swalwell has to die 950 00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:39,080 Speaker 1: before the election. They need to get the message. Let's 951 00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:41,759 Speaker 1: go find Swawell and get this over with. I'm just 952 00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:46,320 Speaker 1: not putting up with this shit anymore. So anyway friendly 953 00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:50,160 Speaker 1: with Eric. He has three small children. I really appreciate 954 00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,759 Speaker 1: and like his wife, Brittany. But more importantly than even 955 00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:57,880 Speaker 1: that is that we have gotten so desensitized to violence 956 00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:01,439 Speaker 1: political violence in this country that I think that even 957 00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:05,040 Speaker 1: hearing these tapes, like nobody is surprised by this tape 958 00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:08,280 Speaker 1: and they didn't even really deny it. Most people believe 959 00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:11,560 Speaker 1: that this happened, and this is not surprising by any 960 00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:15,400 Speaker 1: stretch of imagination. And yet we need to live in 961 00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:17,960 Speaker 1: a country where this kind of talk doesn't happen, where 962 00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:21,680 Speaker 1: we say no to political violence for once and for all. 963 00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:24,319 Speaker 1: You know, it's a moment of buckery, and because it 964 00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:28,080 Speaker 1: involves Roger Stone, there's always an element of hilariousness because 965 00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:30,959 Speaker 1: he dresses like a Bond villain. But this is such 966 00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:34,239 Speaker 1: serious stuff and it is a miracle that no one 967 00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:36,800 Speaker 1: has gotten hurt. And you know, the truth is there 968 00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,759 Speaker 1: has been a lot of law enforcement that has done 969 00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:42,880 Speaker 1: a very good job, right. I mean, we criticize the police, 970 00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:46,319 Speaker 1: it's certainly a favorite of all of ours, but it 971 00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:50,560 Speaker 1: really is true that a lot of people, including Governor 972 00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:54,759 Speaker 1: Gretchen Whitmer, owe their lives to the work that the 973 00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:57,480 Speaker 1: law enforcement has done behind the scenes. So we're all 974 00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:00,520 Speaker 1: very lucky and hopefully we don't have to talk about 975 00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:04,239 Speaker 1: any of this anymore. That's it for this episode of 976 00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:08,040 Speaker 1: Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to 977 00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:10,959 Speaker 1: hear the best minds in politics makes sense of all 978 00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:14,560 Speaker 1: this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard, please send 979 00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:17,680 Speaker 1: it to a friend and keep the conversation going. And again, 980 00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:18,880 Speaker 1: thanks for listening.