1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,600 Speaker 1: The Sunday Hang is brought to you by Chalk Natural 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: Supplements for guys, gals, and nothing in between. Fuel your 3 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 1: day at Chalk dot Com, Bold Reverence, and occasionally randomed 4 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:17,319 Speaker 1: The Sunday Hang with playing podcast starts now. I do 5 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: think Clay were at the point where we need to 6 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,079 Speaker 1: start having a conversation and pulling this together with the 7 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:24,759 Speaker 1: contacts that we have, and I would just want to work, 8 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: you know, work on this. You're I think your idea 9 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: about Undaunted Courage. I mean, you'd have to get the 10 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: rights to use the name in that book, but the story, 11 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: the historical story of Lewis and Clark would be an incredible, 12 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 1: incredible series. And I just see, I see, I see 13 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,160 Speaker 1: what Taylor Sheridan is doing and what he's tapping into 14 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: and I respect that. You know, he's he's going, He's 15 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 1: earned what he's gotten in terms of he is running 16 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: with stuff that is more you know, about entertainment and 17 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: about America and stuff that I think some of it 18 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: could be. I think he's a little overwhelmed with making 19 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: too many things at once, and some of the stuff's 20 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: been a little slap dash, but overall, he's incredibly and 21 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: guy's worth tons of money now because of this. But 22 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: I think that getting a series done on Lois and 23 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 1: Clark Expedition would be something to consider. 24 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 2: Man. 25 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: You know, there's there's ways to get this stuff done 26 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 1: out there now and to and to raise the money 27 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: and to bring people into do it appropriately. And I 28 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 1: just think it would be fantastic and people really appreciate. 29 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: Look at the the podcast, like the Bible in the year, 30 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: I mean, look at the things that are it's always 31 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:38,119 Speaker 1: a shock, a shock success when you go with traditional 32 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: great stories, and especially if you go with either traditional 33 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: Biblical you know, Judeo Christian, or you go with traditional Americana. Yeah, 34 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 1: the American market tends to like that stuff. 35 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 2: Also, the stories are incredible, right, I mean the American 36 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 2: history stories that haven't been told Lewis and Clark is 37 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 2: a no brainer. I mean, if you read Undawned Courage, 38 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 2: but you gave me, was it the the Ernest Shackleton stories? 39 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 2: I mean, the Great Explorer stories? How have there not been? 40 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 2: And I know it's because they're worried about, oh, colonialism. 41 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 2: Let me just say this clip it, share it, have 42 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 2: it echo throughout the entire world. Western civilization is a 43 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 2: good thing, and almost every country that was ever colonized 44 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 2: is in a better position today than it would have 45 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,919 Speaker 2: been if if the colonization had never happened. I don't 46 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 2: know why people aren't willing to say this, but Western 47 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 2: civilization is the reason why we are not all living, 48 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 2: to a large extent still in caves. Right. You find 49 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 2: the best things that are created in the world, and 50 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 2: you bring them to as many people as possible. I 51 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 2: love reading about the explorers because of the risks that 52 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 2: they took buck, but some of the stuff that they 53 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 2: were risking for still blow my fine spices. You know, 54 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 2: we don't even think about the value both for most 55 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 2: of us. I know some of your probably spice stars. 56 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: Salt was a tremendously valuable re. Salt like what we 57 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: just sort of assume is going to be on every 58 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: table at every restaurant, and we buy by the pound 59 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: for like a dollar. The word salary comes from the 60 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: Roman for salt, because they would pay the army in 61 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: pouches of salt sometimes instead of in coin. 62 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 2: The most spices think about this. The entire to a 63 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 2: large extent, exploring world was developed and explored in the 64 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 2: pursuit of spices. And these magical spice islands. I mean, 65 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 2: I encourage you if you are interested at all in 66 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 2: the world of exploration. That era, that fourteen hundreds, fifteen hundred, 67 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 2: sixteen hundreds Magellan, certainly Columbus discovering the New World, all 68 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 2: of that era is unbelievable. I mean, and there would 69 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 2: be a credit about it. 70 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: People have talked about and I've thought this too. Cortez 71 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: would be an amazing TV series. Uh, probably the most 72 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: unbelievable military conquest against the odds and all history when 73 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: you when you actually look at it and think about 74 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: what happened here to take over for five hundred men, 75 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 1: give or take a few hundred men, to take over 76 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: an empire with millions, literally millions of people. By the way, 77 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 1: it's a salary. It's actually that they would give them 78 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 1: some coin to buy the salt which they needed. But 79 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: salary comes from you know, it's from the root word 80 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: salt in the anti rom I just want to make sure 81 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 1: I know the you know, Clay, the pronunciation police are rough, 82 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: but the word derivation police are even. They don't they 83 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: don't play any games in this oh Man, also nerdier 84 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: even than the pronunciation police. The word derivation. Police are 85 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: even nerdier. 86 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 2: But your point just using history where you don't have 87 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 2: to pay, to a large extent, very much for copyright 88 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,799 Speaker 2: or ip because the stories are in the public domain. 89 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:06,919 Speaker 2: It is incredible to me the stories that are not 90 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 2: being told that would actually be very ennobling for larger humanity, 91 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 2: just stories. 92 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:16,280 Speaker 1: I was sitting there with my dad last night trying 93 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: to figure out he's visiting down here in South South Florida, 94 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: and you know, we're we're sitting there and we're trying 95 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 1: to figure out what we're gonna watch, and we're just 96 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: going through Netflix and he's, you know, he's like me, 97 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: but with silver hair. It's funny. The people here that 98 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: were letting him in the at the front desk, they're like, 99 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: they didn't even call up, Like, yeah, I knew it's 100 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: your dad. I just look at him. He looks like you, 101 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: but with gray hair. I'm like, yeah, so, but we're 102 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,359 Speaker 1: looking and he's like trash, trash, trash on Netflix, and 103 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: he's right, it's just trash that they're all these like 104 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 1: he's not being a grouch. He's correct, it's just trash 105 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: shows one after another that are made and there are 106 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: so many stories that are on time. I mean, I 107 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:54,720 Speaker 1: think the Barbary Pirates, if you did that well, would 108 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: be awesome people learn about about, you know, Stephen Decatur 109 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: and the Ray and all these amazing things. There's so 110 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 1: many great stories and there are things that people would 111 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: want to see and that would inspire and that would 112 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 1: teach history. They do all this cool stuff, So I 113 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: just have that's part of it. I think everyone you know, 114 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 1: we're in I guess the entertainment business, right. I mean 115 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: it's media, it's news, but it's the entertainment business. And 116 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 1: when I see people who have the resources at their 117 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: disposal to inspire and entertain millions and millions of Americans, 118 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: and they just completely mess the whole thing up, like 119 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: what we're seeing with And it's not just one movie, right, 120 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: it's over and over again, but it's no why it's 121 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: just the most recent example of it's it's it's inexcusable 122 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: to me. It's like, who are these people and why 123 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 1: are they. 124 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 2: So bad at this? Yeah? 125 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 1: And I think part of it is to your point. 126 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: I love when you pointed out that there's a black 127 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: female Viking in the Viking story. Some parts of history 128 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 1: are not going to be that diverse, because for large 129 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: parts of history there were not great diversity in many countries. Right, 130 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 1: like Japan looked like Japan. 131 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 2: In the United States in the early days of the 132 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 2: United States look like the United States. Certainly England did, 133 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 2: Sweden did. There is a certain look that the countries had, right, 134 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 2: most people were culturally looked very similar. And I think 135 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 2: one of the reasons they won't do the stories is 136 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 2: because they are concerned about who the stars of the 137 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 2: stories are. And so if you do Valley Forge, for instance, 138 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 2: which would be can you imagine that story in the 139 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 2: early inception of the United States, to tell the story 140 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 2: of George Washington holding together the revolution, there's a lot 141 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 2: of white guys who are stars the founding of the country, 142 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 2: a lot of white guys involved. I think it's unfortunate 143 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 2: for Hollywood. 144 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: And here's another example. What's the best show or a 145 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: movie about the American Revolution? 146 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 2: There are a few. 147 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: I'm not saying they haven't been done. But when you 148 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: think about the richness of that period and how much 149 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: people would love you have The Patriot with mel Gibson, 150 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: which I think would be a lot of people, which would. 151 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 2: Be twenty years ago at this point, I mean, it's 152 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 2: a generation ago. 153 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: Now, well, see this is what I was what I 154 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: was gonna say, and you just came to the same conclusion. 155 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: Is everything that you're going to name essentially is from 156 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: decades ago. So somehow technology and and the money going 157 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: into the entertainment industry is more than it has ever been. 158 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: And you know, you have places like Amazon and Netflix 159 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: that can they can they can make shows that are 160 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: ten million dollars an episode, which is what they were 161 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: doing with Game of Thrones. Game of Thrones was it 162 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: was like a ten million dollar episode series. And they 163 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: can do that, and somehow they're still turning out trash now, 164 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: trash after trash, and it's just it's, uh, it doesn't 165 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:44,199 Speaker 1: have to be this way, and it's reflective of broader 166 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: themes that we talk about in the politics and the 167 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 1: culture day in and day out. This is this is 168 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: you know, the America should be the mother load of 169 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: great stories and ideas and entertainment for the whole rest 170 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: of the world and specifically for America first and foremost, 171 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 1: and we've lost some of that. And I think it's 172 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:04,439 Speaker 1: starting to turn and maybe going to come back. 173 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 2: I don't know if there will be things set up. 174 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 2: Next year is the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of 175 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 2: American declaring independence, and should that should be twenty twenty six, 176 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 2: seventeen seventy six to twenty twenty six, that should be 177 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 2: a time. To your argument, Buck, where there are a 178 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 2: lot of pro America American history stories, are they being 179 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 2: made right now? I don't know, you know, because the 180 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 2: truth of the matter is there's a multi year lag 181 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 2: from hey idea to inception, to the taping, to the 182 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:45,199 Speaker 2: to the evolution to it reaching the audience. I hope 183 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 2: that you are going to see some of those things. 184 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 2: I'm very skeptical and to your point, there's never been 185 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,959 Speaker 2: more money being spent on content. And yet if you 186 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 2: think about something that was really well done that has 187 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 2: to do with American history. I mean, here's a good question. 188 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 2: What was the last really good, well made American history story? 189 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 2: You mentioned the Patriot? I think some people would say, okay, 190 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 2: the Patriot that was two thousand and four, two thousand 191 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 2: and five. Probably the HBO John Adams series was good. 192 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 2: But you know, we're thinking about from that period, right 193 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:21,319 Speaker 2: that was good. I don't think Paul Giamati would have 194 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 2: been my first choice. But whatever he's you know, people 195 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 2: are like, oh, but Giamatti, Okay, he's a good actor. 196 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 2: I think it was solid. Yeah, but they just haven't 197 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 2: I mean, there hasn't been anything. They're afraid to make 198 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 2: anything having to do with Civil War, right like, if 199 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 2: it has a Confederate flag in it, you. 200 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: Can't think I think you're touching on I think you're 201 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 1: touching on this again. I think that or rather, you're 202 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 1: going to the next part of our conversation right away, 203 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: which is I think that they would worry about showing people. 204 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: I think that there are a lot of those who 205 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: are in the creative side of things and work at 206 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: Netflix and work at Amazon, and you know those are 207 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: that's really the new movie studio. Just to be clear, 208 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: it's it's it's Apple, it's Amazon, it's Netflix, because they 209 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: can write any check they want for whatever com scent 210 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: they want. I think they're worried about showing George Washington 211 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: in too much of a positive light. I agree, because 212 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 1: he was because he was a slave owner. I think 213 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: they definitely were with the Confederates in him, with with 214 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: with the Confederate Yeah, with the Confederates. If they don't 215 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,559 Speaker 1: show them as essentially you know, Nazis in blue and 216 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: gray uniforms. I think they worry about that. I mean, 217 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 1: this is getting into the mindset of the people who 218 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,559 Speaker 1: think about American history and what they've been taught in school. 219 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: I do think this starts to become part of it. 220 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:34,359 Speaker 1: And that's again symptomatic of broader of a broader decline 221 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: of love and respect for this country and its history 222 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: that has become far too widespread in the culture. 223 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 2: And I will say the HBO World War Two Band 224 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 2: of Brothers, that that that whole universe of movies. I 225 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 2: don't know that they would make those now that that 226 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 2: that show series incredible, right, I mean that. 227 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: Was Brothers not not diverse enough, not diverse enough. I 228 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: don't make it now. 229 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 2: I don't know if they would make I don't know 230 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:06,079 Speaker 2: if HBO would make a super pro America story like that, 231 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 2: because to your point, most of the World War Two 232 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:13,439 Speaker 2: soldiers were white guys, and there's too much too much 233 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,439 Speaker 2: white guys in that. You know that maybe they would 234 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 2: put make George Patton Asian. I don't know, in order 235 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:21,839 Speaker 2: to try to have a a large but race doesn't matter, 236 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,320 Speaker 2: So we're just gonna have World War Two now played 237 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 2: by the diverse characters. I question and if if that 238 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 2: is true, right, if we are correct, what does it 239 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 2: say about our society that we have created that is 240 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 2: afraid to celebrate our history because of who that would 241 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 2: require them to celebrate. 242 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: Look at how far we've come from the statue iconic 243 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: clasm spasm that we suffered under the BLM riots era, 244 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 1: remember that? Oh yeah, and it started, It started with 245 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 1: Confederate statues and then all of a sudden it was 246 00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: like Gandhi and Churchill and. 247 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,560 Speaker 2: People that actually that's Lincoln. 248 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 3: Yeah. 249 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, So this is a real, a real thing. That 250 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: is I think we're in a position now to finally 251 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: do something. And I think people, the mindset of the 252 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: American people, the ethos of American culture has gone to 253 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: a point now where this can finally change. And this 254 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:24,079 Speaker 1: is why I brought up for I think this is 255 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: the first time, really it feels this way in fifteen years. 256 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, they tried to redefine the founding of America. 257 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 2: And you'll probably hear some of this to the sixteen 258 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 2: nineteen project instead of seventeen seventy six. Right, Anybody who 259 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 2: has any sort of historical knowledge at all talked about 260 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:44,679 Speaker 2: how ludicrous that was. Sunday Sizzle with Clay and Busch, 261 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 2: we are joined by Anson, Frearic's former president at Anaheuser 262 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 2: Busch co founder Strive Asset Management, his new book Last 263 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 2: Call for bud Light, The Fall and Future of America's 264 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:03,319 Speaker 2: Favorite Beer, and Anson, I appreciate you joining us here. 265 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:09,079 Speaker 2: I would submit that the failed Dylan mulvany bud Light deal, 266 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 2: the fact that they send her the bud Light cans him. 267 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 2: Whatever you want to say. Right around the March Madness Tournament, 268 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 2: I believe two years ago bud Light sales you can 269 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 2: update me on them. I believe are still down forty percent. 270 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 2: Is this the most destructive ad endorsement product relationship that 271 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 2: has ever existed in modern American capitalism? Can you think 272 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 2: of a worst one? Or is this the worst? 273 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 3: I mean, Clay, I think this is the worst one. 274 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 3: I mean, maybe you could say that when there was 275 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 3: New Coke, and New Coke came out in the nineteen 276 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 3: eighties and then Matt plummeted. Everybody hated New Coke. The 277 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 3: good thing about the Coke executive they should learn their lesson. 278 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 3: They say, hey, we screwed up, we apologize and they 279 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 3: went back to the old formula. And you know, Coke's 280 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 3: doing fine. But that's one of the big problems here 281 00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 3: is that this company lost thirty percent of its sales 282 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 3: two years go. It lost another ten percent of its 283 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 3: sales last year with bud Light. It's still declining this year. 284 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 3: And one of the reasons is that no one's taking 285 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 3: accountability for this. I mean, the CEO is still there. 286 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 3: There's been no apology, and that's why customers really haven't 287 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 3: returned to here, which is crazy. 288 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 2: What would you do. Let's pretend that they came to 289 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 2: you and they said, okay, bud Light is your business. 290 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 2: You have to in some way make it relevant again 291 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 2: for the audience that has abandoned it. Is there anything 292 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 2: they could do that would as you point out, they're 293 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 2: continuing to decline down forty percent. Is the brand dead 294 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 2: no matter what? Or is there a way to bring 295 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 2: it back to life? 296 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 3: No? I mean I actually think there's a way to 297 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 3: bring this back to life. And I get into this 298 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 3: in my book, Last Call for blud Light, what you 299 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 3: mentioned about. But I just think one of the fundamental 300 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 3: problems is is that this company anhezzard Bush. It's no 301 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 3: longer American owned. It was actually purchased by a European 302 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 3: company called Indev about fifteen years ago, and then lots 303 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 3: of mistakes were made over that time period. The INDEV 304 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 3: company moved the corporate headquarters from kind of Saint Louis 305 00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 3: to New York City, brought in a lot of foreign 306 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 3: executives that really they didn't understand the US consumer. They 307 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 3: adopted a lot of device apology of policies of ESG 308 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 3: and DEI. So a lot of those problems happen. I 309 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 3: think a lot of those go away if they actually 310 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 3: sell Anheizard Bush here in the US back to US citizens. 311 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 3: I mean, sell it to Warren Buffett and Berkshire Hathaway, 312 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 3: sell it to a consortium of firms like a Blackstone 313 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 3: and Steve Schwartzman's group. Sell it to one of those. 314 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 3: I think the first thing they can do, which I 315 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 3: think would be good for this European business that hasn't 316 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 3: been able to really understand the US, and it'd be 317 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 3: good for the business here so they could focus more 318 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 3: here in the US. They could bring in American executives, 319 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 3: they could bring back I don't know a lot of 320 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 3: the commercials that we all love. I think even most 321 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 3: importantly is that they could tell their customers that we 322 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 3: were sorry, we screwed up, and that was this old regime. 323 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 3: We got rid of it, and now we're moving forward 324 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 3: with you know, kind of American regime, American values, focused 325 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 3: on our customer. We're not going to get involved in 326 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 3: any political silliness. So they got involved with over the 327 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 3: last couple of years. I think that's the first step. 328 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 2: Why do you think so many brands have ad buyers 329 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 2: and marketing people who have no idea who actually consumes 330 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 2: their product. Isn't that really kind of the essence of 331 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 2: how you make a mistake like this? As you mentioned, 332 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 2: you moved from Saint Louis to New York City. I 333 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 2: knew that bud Light was in real trouble, and I 334 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 2: said this, and it's remained the case. You go around 335 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 2: the tailgates. Now basically no guy who throws a tailgate 336 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 2: at a football game is buying bud Light anymore because 337 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:24,719 Speaker 2: their buddies are going to make fun of them in 338 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 2: the wake of the destruction of the brand. But isn't 339 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 2: this emblematic of larger issues, whether it's with Target, whether 340 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:35,439 Speaker 2: it's with Disney, whether it's with ESPN, the NBA, there 341 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 2: are just a lot of brands out there that have 342 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 2: no idea who their actual consumer is and as a result, 343 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:44,640 Speaker 2: they're completely alienating them. 344 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, Clay, I mean you're one hundred percent right about that. 345 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 3: This is not just an Anheuser Busch problem. Anheuser Busch 346 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 3: was the one that was holding the pin when this 347 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:56,159 Speaker 3: whole ESG DEI bubble pop two years ago, and they 348 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,159 Speaker 3: were the first time that you saw that millions of 349 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,400 Speaker 3: consumers ditched a brand that led to billions of dollars 350 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 3: of loss of shareholder value. And this for the first time, 351 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:05,680 Speaker 3: I think actually was a wake up call to a 352 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 3: lot of the broader corporations. I mean, you don't get 353 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 3: the big rollback in ESG and DEI that you're seeing 354 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 3: right now without the whole bud Light example, where you 355 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 3: all of a sudden, this is the least sustainable thing 356 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 3: that a company could do was to pander to a 357 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 3: group that wasn't it wasn't necessarily their customer base, and 358 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 3: that they got a brand involved in them that wasn't 359 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 3: authentically bud Light. You know, bud Like used to be 360 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 3: about sports and music and bringing folks together, never got 361 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 3: involved in controversial political issues. They lost sight of that 362 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 3: because they had marketing people based in New York and 363 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 3: they used marketing based New York for firms based in 364 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 3: New York City. And then that was like one of 365 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 3: the bigger issues that we saw really across corporate America. 366 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 3: A lot of these firms that were based in Saint 367 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 3: Louis or in Arkansas or Texas, all of a sudden, 368 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 3: they were moving a lot of their headquarters in New York, 369 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 3: hiring New York firms, taking in advice from a lot 370 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 3: of New York based asset management companies. Black Rocks a 371 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 3: good example, who is foicing an ESG and DEI agenda 372 00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 3: on them? And so this led to a lot of problems. 373 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:01,680 Speaker 3: We saw a lot of companies that lost their way 374 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,199 Speaker 3: over the last couple of years. I'm actually pleased to 375 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 3: say that there's companies like Disney, they're at least making 376 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 3: the right steps back in the right direction. They fired 377 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:11,680 Speaker 3: their CEO, Bob Chapik, they brought back Bob Iiger. Bob 378 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 3: Iger said, we're getting out of politics. We're not doing 379 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 3: it anymore. They've rolled back a lot of their DEI 380 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 3: policies in recent weeks. Are they perfect? No, but at 381 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 3: least that they acknowledged that there was a problem. I 382 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 3: hope we're seeing that more across corporate America. I think 383 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 3: Annezard Bushes just a little bit behind the eight ball 384 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 3: on getting there. 385 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 2: A lot of people said, we're talking to Anson fre 386 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 2: Eric's from bud Light, former president there. He's got a 387 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 2: book out last Call for bud Light. Usually people say, oh, 388 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 2: this is not going to last. Two years later, basically 389 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 2: we're still dealing with the continued fallout for bud Light. 390 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 2: Do you think they've been stunned by how toxic their 391 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 2: brand has become? Do you think they ever expected it 392 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 2: to go on this long? Is that why they didn't apologize. 393 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 2: They just kept hoping, Oh this is going to go away, 394 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 2: Oh this is going to go away, And in the 395 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 2: process their brand just vanished. 396 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:00,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean one hundred percent. That's so they thought, 397 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 3: because they're really hadn't been a very successful i'll call 398 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,640 Speaker 3: it consumer boycott previous to this. You know, of course 399 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 3: people were upset when in the NFL. People were kneeling 400 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 3: in the NFL, But what are you going to do? 401 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 3: There is no other alternative on Sundays in the NFL. 402 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:14,919 Speaker 3: You have people were upset at Disney when Disney got 403 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 3: involved in front of rights issues in Florida, but you know, 404 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:18,440 Speaker 3: if your kids want to go to Disney World and 405 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 3: not a lot of alternatives. Bud Light was uniquely susceptible 406 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 3: to this massive boycott really for two reasons. As one 407 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 3: is that they have a commoditized brand, where everywhere there's 408 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 3: bud Light, there's also Miller Lite and cores Light at 409 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 3: the exact same price. And then secondarily, people could actually 410 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 3: see the impact of this boycott. Every single week there's 411 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 3: sales data from retailers like Walmart and Kroger in seven 412 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,959 Speaker 3: to eleven that gets reported, So every week you were 413 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 3: seeing in real time the bud Light sales were down 414 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:48,159 Speaker 3: ten percent, twenty percent, thirty percent, forty percent. And then 415 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:50,119 Speaker 3: with the effect of social media, you had everybody that 416 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 3: was posting photos and videos online of like the bud 417 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 3: Light line at a baseball game empty and a cores 418 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,159 Speaker 3: lightline thirty deep, and so that has just had this 419 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 3: big impact on the business that they they didn't realize 420 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 3: how susceptible they were because for ninety five percent of 421 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,159 Speaker 3: the American population, They can't tell the difference between bud Light, 422 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 3: Miller Lite, Course Light. The only thing that differentiates them 423 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 3: is their brand. And bud Light used to be that 424 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 3: fun sports music, backyard barbecuing kind of like Americana brand 425 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:18,360 Speaker 3: that you're talking about. All the guys used to drink 426 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 3: at tailgates as the most acceptable brand of the biggest 427 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 3: beer brand. And then when they lost that identity and 428 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 3: all of a sudden, it became this almost like brand 429 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 3: like Ben and Jerry's. Where are they advocating for certain 430 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 3: social issues and more progressive causes by getting involved with 431 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 3: Dylan Mulvanium and not even being able to articulate to 432 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 3: the customer what the brand stands for moving forward. I 433 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 3: mean you remember that right after this happened, their CEO 434 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:43,440 Speaker 3: had multiple botched attempts of trying to talk about bud Light, 435 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 3: never apologize their loyal customer base that was called Fradday 436 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,160 Speaker 3: out of touch, nor talked the more progressive customer base 437 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 3: and said, you know, hey, we're going to be more 438 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 3: like Ben and Jerry's. And I don't know, when you 439 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 3: walk in the middle of a cultural battlefield. They ended 440 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:56,159 Speaker 3: up getting shot at from both sides. 441 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 2: No, And I think that's a really important part here 442 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 2: about the commoditized brand nature. Chick fil A got ripped 443 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 2: to the high heavens and even people out there that 444 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 2: are super left wing or like, you know, I might 445 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,679 Speaker 2: not agree with Chick fil A on whatever LGBTQI issue 446 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 2: there is, but they got a great chicken sandwich, and 447 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,159 Speaker 2: so I'm gonna keep showing up. I love their waffle fries. 448 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:20,159 Speaker 2: I'm not trying to give a free advertisement for Chick 449 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 2: fil A, but I love the brand and it's hard 450 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 2: for me to think of something they could do that 451 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,919 Speaker 2: would make me change my decision. But to your point, 452 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,600 Speaker 2: for a lot of people who go into a grocery 453 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 2: store or go into a gas station and are gonna 454 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 2: grab a twelve or a twenty four pack of a beer, 455 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 2: there isn't a lot of difference between Miller Lite, bud Light, 456 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 2: Course Light. I know I'm gonna get blown up by 457 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,200 Speaker 2: guys out there like I can tell a tremendous difference. 458 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,400 Speaker 2: I disagree like Guinness, right, you know when you're drinking 459 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,359 Speaker 2: a Guinness, You know when you're drinking a certain type 460 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,399 Speaker 2: of beer that has a different flavor and taste. I 461 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 2: think for most people, light beer is relatively easily replaceable. 462 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,159 Speaker 2: Let me ask you this question, and I think that's 463 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 2: an important part about why the boycott works so well. 464 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 2: It was an easy change for people to make. Target 465 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 2: smart guy. I really like him. James auth Meyer now 466 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 2: the attorney general in the state of Florida. One of 467 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,640 Speaker 2: the first things he's done is file a lawsuit against Target, 468 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 2: going after them for burning up a great deal of 469 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,679 Speaker 2: shareholder value, he says, by basically going all in with 470 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 2: the tuck bathing suits, everything else. What you do now 471 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 2: I think is important. But in some way, is that 472 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 2: the effective method to get businesses back to just saying, hey, 473 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 2: can you just serve everybody? Democrat, Republican, Independent, You don't 474 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,479 Speaker 2: need to go after this woke agenda. Is there a 475 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 2: lawsuit mechanism in your mind that could be pursued and 476 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:48,120 Speaker 2: should be pursued. 477 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 3: I mean, there is a lawsuit mechanism, and you know, 478 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 3: if you go back, really the lawsuits that are coming 479 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,400 Speaker 3: out right now goes back to really the Civil Rights 480 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 3: Act of nineteen sixty four, which essentially says that you 481 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 3: cannot discriminate off of a race, sex, gender, national origin, etc. 482 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 3: And a lot of retailers. I mean, Target was one 483 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:07,879 Speaker 3: of these, and in the post George Floyd era that 484 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 3: they came out with a lot of essentially racist policies 485 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,119 Speaker 3: against certain people. They said that you're going to hire 486 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,440 Speaker 3: a certain quota of people that look this way. Target 487 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 3: was allocating shelf space at their stores based off of race, 488 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 3: sex color. That just doesn't make any sense in the 489 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 3: society we're living in. I mean, we live in a meritocracy. 490 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 3: You should be able to put the products in the 491 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 3: shelf that sell. That's the right thing for the customer, 492 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 3: that's the right thing for your shareholder value as well. 493 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 3: I think that's the bigger issue that Targets facings like 494 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 3: why are you pushing forward with a certain really social 495 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 3: type agenda as opposed to putting what sells. And I 496 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 3: think that the bigger issue with Target was, you know, 497 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 3: when you walk into a Target store, their most valuable 498 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,680 Speaker 3: real estate is that first big display area right when 499 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 3: you walk in, and when they're putting tuck friendly bathing 500 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,159 Speaker 3: suits across every single Target across America, Well, that's not 501 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 3: what the majority of their customer base wants. And that's 502 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 3: not good for shareholders, not good for shareholder value. Yes, 503 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 3: I think the lawsuits will make sure that they're abiding 504 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 3: by sort of the Civil Rights Act and making sure 505 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 3: that they're not discriminating against people. I think even more importantly, 506 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 3: I think that the American consumer has gone to Walmart's, 507 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 3: has gone to other areas, and Target stock price has 508 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 3: been in the tank over the last year or two 509 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 3: since this controversy. I think what's going to turn around 510 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:20,359 Speaker 3: is again Target recmmitting this fundamental principles of serving their customers, 511 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 3: bringing customers back by giving more of the products of 512 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 3: what they want. I think that's the more effective way 513 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 3: to get this thing turned around, and consumers again just 514 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 3: vote with your wallets. That's the more effective way to 515 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 3: get back to serving all customers. 516 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 2: The book is last call for bud Light Anson Freeric's 517 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,919 Speaker 2: former president, Ann Heuser Busch speaking with us, last question 518 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:42,399 Speaker 2: for you on a positive side, is every major brand 519 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 2: in America now having meetings on a regular basis where 520 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 2: they say, whatever we do, let's make sure we're not 521 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 2: the next bud Light have. Does the American consumer sent 522 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 2: a huge and important message to corporate America by not 523 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:55,880 Speaker 2: buying bud Light. 524 00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,400 Speaker 3: I think they have the most importantly, I think most 525 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 3: brands right now now are having a conversation about just 526 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:04,679 Speaker 3: how do you build trust with the consumer, and you 527 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:06,720 Speaker 3: do it by being authentic. I mean you mentioned Chick 528 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,880 Speaker 3: fil A earlier, like, I know on Sunday's Chick fil 529 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 3: A is going to be closed. That's like, you know, 530 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:13,679 Speaker 3: I can trust that it's going to be closed. And 531 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 3: I also know this because the family who owns it. 532 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 3: I mean they're like, you know, Seventh day Adventists. That's 533 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:19,919 Speaker 3: their right. They can be closed, they can do what 534 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 3: they want to do, they can advocate for policies they want. 535 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,400 Speaker 3: That's chick fil A. Let Chick fil A be Chick 536 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 3: fil A. That's what makes it unique, interesting and different. 537 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 3: And the same thing with bud Light. Like one of 538 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:30,640 Speaker 3: the things that was just authentic and true about bud 539 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 3: Light is that it was this funny, spratty, you know, 540 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 3: kind of kind of a inside humor type of brand. 541 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 3: Let bud Light be bud Light. It didn't need to 542 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 3: be Ben and Jerry's by getting involved in every single 543 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 3: social issue, and I think that's more the conversation that's 544 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,160 Speaker 3: being had. That's what my book talks a lot about, 545 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,159 Speaker 3: is about that authenticity. Getting back to trust with brands, 546 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,359 Speaker 3: building that back in corporate America, and I think that 547 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:52,919 Speaker 3: we're starting to see the pendulum swing back. I'm optimistic 548 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,199 Speaker 3: that it will continue to happen. That'll be good for 549 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 3: I think American businesses, American shareholder capitalism, and I think 550 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 3: it'll be better for democracy as well if we're keeping 551 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,160 Speaker 3: businesses out of politics. 552 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 2: Check it out last call for bud light Anson Freeriks. 553 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 2: Appreciate the time, have a good weekend. 554 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 3: Thanks Clay, have a good one.