1 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: You are listening to What in the Winkler and iHeartRadio podcast. Hi, 2 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: welcome back to What in the Winkler. I am so 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: excited today. Sarah Hoover is on the podcast. Sarah is 4 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: a best selling author, art historian, and cultural critic. Her 5 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 1: memoir The Motherload Episodes From the Brink of Motherhood debut 6 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:24,240 Speaker 1: on USA Today's National best Selling book list. It is 7 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: now available everywhere you buy books and audiobooks. She holds 8 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: a master's degree in cultural theory from Colombia and a 9 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: BA in art history from NYU. I am obsessed with 10 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: her and I am going to have a full fan 11 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: girl moment. So let's let her in. 12 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:39,160 Speaker 2: Hi. 13 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:43,959 Speaker 1: Hi, Oh my god, thank you so much for doing this. 14 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 2: Of course. How's it going. 15 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: It's going so well. I'm obsessed with your book. 16 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:50,599 Speaker 2: Thank you. It. 17 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 1: I like put light, I like used a ball hyelighter. 18 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, thank you. 19 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: I made notes in my phone app as I was 20 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: reading it. So I am just so excited to talk 21 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: to you about it. 22 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, thank you. That's so nice of you. 23 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 2: I'm excited to talk to you too. How's the podcast going. 24 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: It's good, you know, originally it was my mom and 25 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: I and my mom and I have a very I mean, 26 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: I think it's so bizarre because I don't know you. 27 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: I think we have a lot of friends in common, 28 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,479 Speaker 1: but I feel like I know everything about you, So 29 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: I feel like we have similar moms, but I don't 30 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: know her, never met her, I never met You's. 31 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 2: Funny because I always thought like my mom and I 32 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 2: were so like my you know, my mom's a unique 33 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 2: person whatever, But almost every single woman on my book 34 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 2: to her has been like, my mom is exactly like yours, 35 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 2: even though I don't know your mom, and I'm like, 36 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 2: I think all moms are just kind of alike. 37 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think you know, I my mom just 38 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: like hates feeling the neediness, is like it repulses her 39 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: when it comes for me at least, and so yeah, 40 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: we just like but now, I mean, as I'm I'm 41 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: for before and we're so incredibly close. But she got 42 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: really really sick in November and almost died. And I 43 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: was thinking about, like when I was reading your book 44 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: and those parts about your mom and like crying about 45 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 1: your mom dying when not even like when she was 46 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: still very much here and alive. And then I thought 47 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: about how like all these moments in your book that 48 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: feels so like lonely, but then you actually get through them. 49 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: That that's the biggest part. That's the scariest part, is 50 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: like how will I handle this? And then as you 51 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 1: go through it, obviously my mom is okay now, thank god, 52 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: but you realize like you can sort of get through 53 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,919 Speaker 1: these moments, which is like when you're in them, you 54 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: feel like you're drowning and you feel like you have 55 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: to like ask other people around if you're losing your mind, 56 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, and so did you you have two kids? 57 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 2: Now? I have two kids. Yeah, I have a little 58 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 2: girl who's probably going to walk in and you might 59 00:02:57,480 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 2: even see her, but she's ten months old. 60 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: And is Sharon back. 61 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 2: Yes, I have the same baby nurse this time the 62 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 2: same maybe. Yeah. 63 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: I loved my baby nurse so much. 64 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a really special relationship. 65 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 1: It is. I had the same one with the second 66 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: I have three kids. I had the same one, but 67 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: the first one I actually she stopped doing it, but 68 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: I loved her so much. And I remember my best 69 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 1: friend coming over and visiting me from New York, and 70 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: I just had Ace, who's my oldest who's thirteen, and 71 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 1: I said to her. She was wearing an orange scarf, 72 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 1: and I was like, do you mind giving that to Christine? 73 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: Who's my favorite? And she was like, what do you mean. 74 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: I was like, well, orange is her favorite color, and 75 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: you're wearing an orange scarf, and I just feel like 76 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: you should give it to her. She was like, are 77 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: you you lost your mind? 78 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 2: You're like, yes, yes I have, but yeah, important thing 79 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 2: from now on is that my baby nurse is happy, 80 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 2: so and so that's just how it's going to go. 81 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: Time did you go? Are you going to write another book? 82 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 2: I need? Well, I would love to, but I am 83 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 2: still like very much in this book. You know, I'm 84 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 2: not I'm not on with my book tour and stuff, 85 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 2: so I haven't had time to like make it to 86 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 2: do list. 87 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: How does it feel having it out in the world. 88 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 2: It's good, I you know, there are disappointments. It's a 89 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 2: roller coaster like anything else, and it's strange to have 90 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 2: it out in the world. In a lot of ways, 91 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 2: I don't know what I expected the response to be, 92 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 2: but I knew from like the minute that I started 93 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 2: writing it that it felt really urgent and important to me, 94 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:37,119 Speaker 2: and like I faced obviously endless rejection of people being 95 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 2: like you're not a writer, you know, we don't want 96 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 2: this book, et cetera, as I think like any any 97 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 2: new writer does. But I always was like, this has 98 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 2: to be published, Like there are so many women that 99 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 2: are like me that don't feel seen and are lonely 100 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 2: and think that they're alone and think that no one 101 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 2: else experiences this, and like I have to, you know, 102 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 2: continue down this path, even though so many people told 103 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:06,799 Speaker 2: me I would never get a book published, et cetera. 104 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,359 Speaker 2: So it always I always knew that it would like 105 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,280 Speaker 2: find its people, you know, and I didn't know if 106 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 2: that would be a lot of people are like four people, 107 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 2: but I knew that it would find people who needed 108 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 2: to hear what it said. And it has and that 109 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 2: isn't like a surprise to me. I guess the surprise 110 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 2: has been in like how big that number is. But 111 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 2: my like big takeaway from I've been on I was 112 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 2: on tour for a month. I just got back last week, 113 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 2: and like, my biggest takeaway has been the like sheer magnitude. 114 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 2: How many women have experienced something so completely like life 115 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:47,799 Speaker 2: altering and have not really had an outlet to discuss 116 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 2: it how lonely they are. And I've had women like 117 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 2: in their seventies and eighties say I didn't ever in 118 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 2: my thirties, forties or fifties, the language to like describe 119 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 2: these feelings did not exist yet even among your best 120 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 2: friends and like your intimates, you weren't talking about this 121 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 2: kind of stuff. And until I read your book, I 122 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 2: didn't realize that I, like have had postpartum depression since 123 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 2: I had my kids, and that I never connected with 124 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:19,799 Speaker 2: them because I was depressed, and I like didn't realize 125 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 2: it till now. And they have women who have for 126 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 2: forty years been mentally unwell after the birth of their 127 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:30,160 Speaker 2: firstborn and have had just like had to live life 128 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 2: without finding solace and a narrative that made sense for them. 129 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 2: So it's weird to have it out there. But I 130 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 2: did always know what would find its home among its people. 131 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 2: I just I didn't know that it would be like 132 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 2: so many people and people of different ages and stuff 133 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 2: like that, you know, but I knew it was important. 134 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: I feel like, you read all these books or you 135 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:50,720 Speaker 1: go to these classes on how to have the baby, 136 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: but nine times out of ten you're in a hospital, 137 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: so you're like yeah, you know that part, but then 138 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: you bring this baby home and nobody really talks about that. 139 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,479 Speaker 1: And I mean in therapy since I was six and 140 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: I was certainly not prepared, and I was a preschool 141 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 1: teacher before I had kids, and I thought like, oh, 142 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: I got this, this is going to be And I 143 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: had such severe postpartum anxiety. And so when you write 144 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: about your husband dropping the baby at the chateau outside 145 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: and the rage you felt, I felt that, like at 146 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: every moment that my husband would miss step, even though 147 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: you know it was an accident or whatever, or it 148 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: wasn't even but like it was so disproportionate to what 149 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 1: was happening in the moment that but I didn't it 150 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: didn't feel like postpartum, because postpartum felt like you would 151 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: just be like I want to kill my baby. 152 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 2: Hine all day or whatever. Yeah. I mean, I wonder 153 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 2: if you felt more like acknowledged and seen for what 154 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 2: you had gone through, and of women on mass were 155 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 2: more appreciated for the toll that childbirth takes and how 156 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 2: like difficult it is to bring healthy life into the world. 157 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 2: I wonder if the rage would feel the same, because like, 158 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 2: in retrospect, yeah, my rage was disproportionate, but it wasn't 159 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 2: just really about that one time that the baby got dropped. 160 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 2: It was about the fact that I felt like the 161 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 2: whole world was just like, yep, business as usual, you 162 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 2: had a baby, No who cares, you know, And I 163 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 2: found it to be like such a massive rupture, and 164 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 2: it was so much grander and more complex than anyone 165 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 2: had ever explained to me. So like, in a way 166 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 2: of the rage was justified because I was like, you 167 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 2: don't get any of it. You know, I'm mad about everything. 168 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 2: I'm mad about so much more than just this like 169 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 2: little mistake. 170 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: And then I would feel like almost I would feel 171 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 1: so it was like this self fulfilling prophecy because then 172 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: i'd feel guilty about being upset or acting out or 173 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: because everyone's like, you're so emotional, you're you know. So 174 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: it was like this whole I don't know, it just 175 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: didn't feel ever like I felt misunderstood and I didn't 176 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 1: feel like and I hate that feeling more than anything. 177 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: I think people like to be seen and like to 178 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 1: feel understood, and so. 179 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 2: I think it was such a feeling. 180 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: It's a terrible feeling. And I think that your book 181 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: makes people feel seen, and and it's in such a 182 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: way where it's it's like you you feel, it's like 183 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 1: an intimate I don't know. When I read it, I 184 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: felt like I listened to it on audible. Then I 185 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 1: would come home and like wherever I left off, I 186 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: would read it. Yeah, before I loved I'd never done 187 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: that before. I'm not like a huge reader, I I 188 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,319 Speaker 1: I'm not. I don't. I haven't found like a book 189 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: that I feel like, I like devoured it and I 190 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: just think that that is such an incredible. 191 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 2: I don't know. 192 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 1: It's just you're so talented. Obviously you know that, but 193 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 1: it was just. 194 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 2: I don't know that. I mean, that's really nice. I 195 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 2: don't my I like never cared if at the end 196 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 2: of it someone was like, you're a really good writer, 197 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 2: Like that doesn't matter to me. Anything that mattered was 198 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 2: that I knew I had something to say that felt 199 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 2: really important, and I wanted to write it in a 200 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 2: way that like the most people would read it mm hmmm, 201 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:14,079 Speaker 2: because I thought, obviously that would me and would have 202 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 2: the greatest impact. And to me that was like conversational 203 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,719 Speaker 2: and lively and propulsive and like would make you want 204 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 2: to turn the page and keep going. So I really 205 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,079 Speaker 2: a goal was to like write it in my real 206 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 2: life voice, which and you did? I mean that sounds 207 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 2: like it would be easy. Well you kind of do, 208 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 2: I mean you listen to it on the audio book, Yeah, 209 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:33,439 Speaker 2: I did. 210 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: I did? 211 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 2: You know. I wanted it to feel like you were 212 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 2: sitting in a room with me, like having a conversation 213 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 2: kind of. And that sounds so easy, Like we should 214 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 2: all be able to write the way we think the 215 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 2: way it's so but it's so hard. 216 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: It's so hard train yourself to do. 217 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:48,119 Speaker 2: It's so difficult. 218 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,559 Speaker 1: And it felt like you were, you know, in all, 219 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: Like it just felt like you were there with you, 220 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:55,839 Speaker 1: you know. 221 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 2: It really Wait, I started watching The New White Lotus 222 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 2: last night, which I don't know I've watched hip I had, 223 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 2: and it's set in Thailand. But the monkeys are like 224 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 2: a whole character in that in that TV show, it's. 225 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 1: Really exactly what they're talking about when I watch it 226 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: tonight after. 227 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 2: My kid's good a bit. 228 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 1: It's funny though, when you talk about the hotels. It's 229 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: like a running joke with all of my best friends, 230 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: my whole family that I find something disgusting in every hotel. 231 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: I can name like two hotels in the world that 232 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 1: I've never been upset about. And so and I was like, 233 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:34,959 Speaker 1: see it happens to other people, because my husband will 234 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: be like, you look for things, and I'm like, are 235 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: you out of your mind? Like I just find you. Yeah, 236 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,079 Speaker 1: I'm not, like I hope today I find something disgusting. 237 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,199 Speaker 2: I know, I know it's really unfortunate, but at the 238 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 2: end of the day, even the fancy hotels are like 239 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 2: beyond hundreds of people have stayed in that room. 240 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: You know, when you got in that bathtub, I was like, 241 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 1: you are a brave lady fold move. 242 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,199 Speaker 2: I know. Never have I done that again? 243 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: So no, I know. So do you feel did you 244 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 1: feel when you were having your second? Were you worried 245 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: about because I felt for me that like my transition 246 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 1: to one child was way harder than my transition to 247 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 1: two or three because I was so terrified and so 248 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: everyone thinks it's crazy when I say that, But did 249 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: you feel the same or. 250 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 2: Wait, I have a question. You have three? Did you 251 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 2: were they all? How do I say this? Like did 252 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 2: you grow up thinking? I mean, you were a preschool teacher, 253 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 2: so maybe like were you like I really want kids, 254 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 2: Like all I ever. 255 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: Wanted, Okay, all I ever wanted was to be a mom. 256 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: I didn't have, Like I mean, I wasn't. I wasn't 257 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 1: like I can't wait, I didn't have, which is so 258 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: sad now because now I have a really successful nonprofit 259 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: that I work really hard on. But I never had 260 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,199 Speaker 1: dreams of like a career ever. I just wanted to 261 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 1: be a mom. And then when I got to the mom, no, 262 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: but it is a little because then your kids get 263 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: older and there's like but when I when I had Ace, 264 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:58,199 Speaker 1: and I would see like these women walking down the 265 00:12:58,200 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: street with like a yoga mat and a stroller and 266 00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: I couldn't even figure out how to cross Santa Senny 267 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: to get to the country mart In Brentwood because there 268 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: was no lights. That my therapist to this day will 269 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 1: still be like, are you having a crossing Sambasenny moment? 270 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:13,439 Speaker 1: I can't, you know, Like I felt like such a loser, 271 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: you know, And I wish that there had been something 272 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 1: like this, like this book that would have made me 273 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: feel like, wait, this is normal, because nobody in my 274 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: baby group was saying these things. 275 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 2: No, what do you think that I'm someone in their 276 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 2: that group felt it. 277 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: One hundred percent, you know, one hundred percent. But when 278 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: I felt it, actually, my friend Casey Crown, who is 279 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: like a healer now, and she I go to her 280 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: like she I sort of like. She tells the story 281 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: about the first time meeting me. I step out, my 282 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: baby nurses in the car and I'm like, he cried 283 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 1: the whole way from Beverly Hills to Santa Monica. We'd 284 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: never met before. I didn't even tell her my name 285 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: and she never She was like, you scared me so 286 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: that I never went back to the class. 287 00:13:52,520 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 2: Oh my god, I was really scared. With the second look, 288 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 2: there was a big stretch between my two kids because 289 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 2: I Misscarrie and I had to do IVF. There was 290 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 2: a lot of work to get to be pregnant again. 291 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 2: So by the time I got pregnant again, I had 292 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 2: like been in therapy for years. I had processed everything 293 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 2: a million different ways. I've been in all different kinds 294 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 2: of therapy, and I knew that I could not have 295 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 2: a repeat of the first time around, or that I 296 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 2: would die like there was no I knew how bad 297 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 2: it had been, so I really put a lot of 298 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 2: like safeguards in place. For myself so that it wouldn't 299 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 2: happen the second time, and it did it. But important 300 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 2: for me was having a non traumatic birth and having 301 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 2: like every system I could think of in place to 302 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 2: make sure that I had a positive experience. I had 303 00:14:55,760 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 2: a very terrible pregnancy the second time. I was on 304 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 2: medical bed rest for four months, oh wow. And I 305 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 2: at the very end developed coolest stasis of the liver, 306 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 2: which can be is fatal at thirty seven weeks so 307 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 2: I delivered, was induced very early, and I had morning 308 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 2: sickness till the day I delivered, and like just you know, 309 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 2: it was one of those pregnancies that just was just rough, 310 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 2: and because birth is birth, it was also bloody and 311 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 2: painful and scary and all the things you would expect. 312 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 2: But none of it was traumatic, and none of it 313 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 2: made me depressed or triggered any sort of like emotional issues. 314 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 2: I wouldn't even say I had. I had some anxiety 315 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 2: this time, but not to the point where I got 316 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 2: in the way of my life. And it was just 317 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 2: a totally different experience. But I really attribute a lot 318 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 2: of it. I had a huge perspective shift, of course, 319 00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 2: because I like, this baby was so wanted I worked 320 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 2: so hard to get her. I had, you know, just 321 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 2: processed a lot, so I like was coming at it 322 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 2: from a place of being like, this might be your 323 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 2: last time. You just got to like go with the 324 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 2: flow on this one. And you know, if I had 325 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 2: been put on medical bed dress the first time around, 326 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 2: I would have lost my mind. I think I would 327 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 2: have died, that I would have killed myself. But this time, 328 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 2: I just would lay in bed every day and just think, 329 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 2: you know, you get your baby at the end of this. 330 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 2: And I had a lot of patience and a lot 331 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 2: of perspective. But the real, like important piece of the 332 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 2: puzzle for me was that when I was looking for 333 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 2: a new obe or new care, because I also interviewed midwives, 334 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 2: I like brought a list of things that I required 335 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 2: for the care to feel empathetic and like trauma informed 336 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 2: and the kind of the kind of medicine that I 337 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 2: knew I needed to have a really happy and like 338 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 2: spiritual birth experience, and a lot of doctors like simply 339 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 2: would not comply with the requirements that I had. There 340 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 2: are doctors who like where like, we don't allow dulas 341 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 2: no matter what. And I was like, well, I'm having 342 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 2: a doula, so I won't be delivering with you. You know, 343 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 2: there are some really unmodern doctors that I interviewed, but 344 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:12,120 Speaker 2: I found one that was like willing to go with 345 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:16,680 Speaker 2: my needs and it made all the difference. It made 346 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 2: it for a really positive experience, and I just I 347 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:21,920 Speaker 2: was like happy the whole time. I think also, like. 348 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: That that's so huge that you a lot of people 349 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: don't have perspective shifts, even if it gets better. You 350 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 1: know that you just were able to change your whole 351 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 1: perspective because it's really hard to do. 352 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, I worked to add it a lot. M I 353 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 2: worked at it a lot. I did like five or 354 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 2: six different modalities of therapy and picked up therapeutic practices, 355 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 2: meditation and journaling and blah blah blah. Like I worked 356 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 2: really hard. I did not ever want to go back 357 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 2: to that dark place. And I also I was not 358 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 2: on I don't take anti depressants now, but I was 359 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:00,920 Speaker 2: like willing to go back on if I needed them. 360 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 2: And I just was like really open minded to doing 361 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:08,120 Speaker 2: whatever it took to be in a positive place. And 362 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:10,199 Speaker 2: I just had so many more resources like I was 363 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 2: in therapy. And however, I have a really good friend 364 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 2: who had incredibly severe postpartum depression after all three of 365 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 2: her births, so bad that she was institution She institutionalized 366 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 2: herself after her second and I didn't, like, actually think 367 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,399 Speaker 2: that that was possible, because after the first I thought, like, 368 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 2: now you know what to do, like if you start 369 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 2: feeling sad again, like you get on antidepressants and you 370 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 2: go to therapy and you do this, Matt and she 371 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 2: was like, yeah, except the second time for me, none 372 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 2: of it worked, which is so terrifying to me. Like 373 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 2: antidepressants in my mind were a last ditch effort, Like 374 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 2: they weren't. I didn't want to have to be on 375 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 2: medicine for forever. But once I got around to the 376 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 2: idea that it would do you hear my baby, Yeah, 377 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 2: if you get around to the idea that it I'll 378 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 2: bring her over here. You get her if you got 379 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,640 Speaker 2: around to the idea that, Like, I had a great 380 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 2: stigma against antidepressants at the beginning, and then I sort 381 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 2: of got over that and was like, this is the 382 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 2: only chance you have a happiness. So I started taking 383 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,919 Speaker 2: them and got over my you know, preconceived notions of 384 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:21,160 Speaker 2: what that meant. And once I did, and they were 385 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,159 Speaker 2: like a huge life saver for me. I considered them 386 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 2: an option for the future if I needed them. Like 387 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 2: I weaned off of them after a while, but I 388 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 2: considered them an option and the like. It didn't occur 389 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 2: to me that later on they could like quit working 390 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,199 Speaker 2: and not function for you anymore. And I feel like 391 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 2: so bad for my friends who had gone through it 392 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 2: all had like found her way out, and then the 393 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 2: disease changed for her with her second and third and 394 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 2: she had to literally like go into an institution, into 395 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 2: a it was an outpatient program, but in at a 396 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,400 Speaker 2: hospital in LA because she just like couldn't get better 397 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 2: and nothing was working, which is so terrifying. Yeah, it is. 398 00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: I was on I mean I'd been on medication since 399 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: I was well, and then I went off because I thought, 400 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:03,639 Speaker 1: like at my first with Ace, my oldest, I was like, 401 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: I have to go off when I get pregnant. And 402 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 1: then with my other two after, you know, I finally 403 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: went back on because I literally mine was like health related. 404 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:14,639 Speaker 1: I kept thinking I was going to die or he 405 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: was going to die someone, you know, And I went 406 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: back on it, and I stayed on it for my 407 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:23,239 Speaker 1: second two pregnancies, and I couldn't have made it without it, 408 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:27,360 Speaker 1: and I was so tired of then I was worried 409 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: because I was worried, and I remember the doctor and 410 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 1: I think someone you're one of your therapists said this 411 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 1: to you. But the doctor that I went to, the psychopharmacologist, 412 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: was like, you're here, so you're doing the first thing 413 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: as being a good mom, you know, like when your 414 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:40,359 Speaker 1: therapist said to you, well, you're getting the help, you know, 415 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,679 Speaker 1: And it's like it's so clouded at that moment that 416 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: you don't even realize that showing up and like trying 417 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 1: to do better is the first step in that you're 418 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 1: actually being a great mom and you're you know, but 419 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 1: it's it's really it's so it's the I think it's 420 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:59,880 Speaker 1: something that people just think you're supposed to know all 421 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 1: these things. And I didn't grow up, you know with 422 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: my mom really being like the sort of like my 423 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 1: mom's the best and she's so great, but there were 424 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: always many people in my house, Like I was never 425 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: looking you know, like she was not was never just 426 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 1: like me and her, you know. 427 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't have a lot of one on one 428 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 2: time with mine either, Like she wasn't taking me out 429 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 2: to lunch and getting her nails done together and stuff 430 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 2: like that. 431 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and when we did there were like 432 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 1: special days, but it wasn't like, you know, she wasn't 433 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,439 Speaker 1: picking me up from school or I had There were 434 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 1: like a lot of nannies and a lot of so 435 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: I didn't really see what that looked like doing it 436 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,239 Speaker 1: sort of without that didn't. I didn't know what that 437 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: looked like. And I was so scared too. So my 438 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: baby nurse was supposed to stay a month and stayed 439 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 1: nine because I couldn't. I was so weirdly attached to 440 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: her that I couldn't let her go. 441 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, I really just feel sorry for there 442 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 2: are so many women who like don't hug, and like 443 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 2: what do you do when you have no option like that, 444 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 2: when you don't have family close by, you don't own 445 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 2: resources to like have that kind of help, like, and 446 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 2: also you can't complain because you're afraid your baby will 447 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 2: get taken away if you tell someone the truth of 448 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:13,159 Speaker 2: what your mental health looks like and get scared that. 449 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,159 Speaker 1: Your baby's gonna feel it, even though you know, you know, 450 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,159 Speaker 1: I mean, at least I was, I was, you know, 451 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 1: so frightened that like somehow it was going to be like, well, 452 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: he would know that I didn't really know what I 453 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: was doing, But yeah, I think I assumed and everyone 454 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,719 Speaker 1: around me assumed that I would just like take to 455 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: it like a duck to water or whatever. And I 456 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:39,959 Speaker 1: was so frightened of every single thing that I didn't 457 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: It was hard to have fun when you're so hyper 458 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 1: vigilant and you feel like if you're not watching or 459 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: you're not doing it, or you're not there, you know 460 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: that something will happen. And that's like your sole responsibility 461 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 1: on this earth, you know, is to make sure that 462 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: nothing does. 463 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,439 Speaker 2: It's actually really oppressive, and it's funny because I just 464 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,919 Speaker 2: like there is no father who feels any of that, right. 465 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. I mean I would always say to 466 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 1: my husband, like, you go to work, and like then 467 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,159 Speaker 1: your brain just like goes to work, you know, Like, 468 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 1: but everything I do to this day, my brain is 469 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: still thinking about my kids, even though they're thirteen, nine 470 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 1: and seven. 471 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 2: You know, like when even if you were out the 472 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 2: door at work, you would be making like to do 473 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 2: list of things your kids. 474 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, or like if I'm even out to dinner, I'm 475 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: still you know, like oh, wait, is did I remind 476 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:32,679 Speaker 1: him to take to bad? I did it? 477 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 2: You know, like and I listen, you're a home couldn't 478 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 2: function without it, by the way. 479 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:44,639 Speaker 1: No, And I you know, I I part of that. 480 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,479 Speaker 1: I really am thankful for because like that hyper vigilance, 481 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: that sensitivity. I think, even though this is maybe like 482 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,959 Speaker 1: my insanity speaking makes me a better mom. I don't know, 483 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 1: but you know, I I. 484 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 2: That's why I can't give it up either. But I wonder. Yeah, 485 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 2: I'm like, maybe it makes me a worse mom because 486 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 2: I'm like of hovering, nervous wreck. 487 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 1: But yeah, I feel like my middle is the most 488 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: well adjusted because I was so distracted an insane. So 489 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: my oldest is three and a half years older than 490 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 1: my middle. I had a miscarriage in between them, and 491 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 1: that then sent me back into like a full full 492 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: full tail spin, like I don't I think, like I 493 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 1: was so naive to not even really like because I 494 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:32,919 Speaker 1: had already had ace and I was like, oh this, 495 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: I'll just do it again. And I was convinced actually 496 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: and this is like one hundred percent not I don't 497 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: know this to be true. I don't know, but I'd 498 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 1: gone to see the doctor for my like, you know, 499 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:45,920 Speaker 1: first appointment, and he had said to me, I really 500 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: want you to get a flu shot. I'd never gotten 501 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 1: a flu shot before. And I got the flu shot, 502 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,680 Speaker 1: and then I miscarried two days later, which I don't 503 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,159 Speaker 1: know if that's like and I'm not like, trust me, 504 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 1: I believe in vaccines and all the things, but I 505 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: don't do flu shots. And I I always was like, 506 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 1: that was it, that was it, But I think that 507 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,159 Speaker 1: was just like trying to pinpoint why it happened. And 508 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 1: I'd had more. I had more after that, but not 509 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: but in between my after my third, I had had 510 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 1: a few. 511 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 2: Did you go to the same doctor I did? 512 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: I went to the same doctor I went to. So 513 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: my oldest is thirteen, my middle is nine. So there 514 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 1: are three and a half years apart, and then my 515 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 1: youngest and my middle are two years apart, exactly because 516 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,880 Speaker 1: I started trying so quickly after that because I knew 517 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,199 Speaker 1: I wanted to have three and I was scared i'd 518 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: have more miscarriages, and then I just got pregnant, and 519 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 1: so they like they literally are four days apart. Because 520 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: I was like, you know, panic. 521 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 2: You went for it. 522 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 1: I sure did, and and I you know, it's the 523 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: one thing in my life that I really I felt 524 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,640 Speaker 1: like up until recently, I was like really good at 525 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 1: you know, like I didn't have like any of these 526 00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: like I don't know, I didn't have like a talent 527 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 1: that I thought, like, I'm not like a great artist, 528 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 1: I'm not, you know, Like, but I loved being I 529 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: love I love being a mom, and so so to 530 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 1: have the mix of the two, to like have all 531 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: this insane anxiety sort of weighing me down, not letting 532 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 1: me be whoever it is that I want to be, 533 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 1: whether it's a mom or whatever else, and then also 534 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,639 Speaker 1: wanting so badly to be this version of whatever in 535 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: my brain I thought it were supposed to look like. 536 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 1: Is just the biggest mind known to mankind. 537 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 2: I'm sure. Yeah, expectation versus reality, and like, your reality 538 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 2: not matching what you always thought it would is really heartbreaking. Yeah, 539 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 2: no matter what genre of heartbreak you know, about motherhood 540 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 2: or about anything anything. 541 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,680 Speaker 1: And I hope that every single person reads this book 542 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: because oh, thank. 543 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 2: You me too, it really is. Then read it. 544 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: I'm like, I gave it to my husband last night. 545 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,360 Speaker 1: When I finished it, I was like, here, I want 546 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 1: you to read it because I was like, I think 547 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 1: you'll understand in a way because they can never understand, 548 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,880 Speaker 1: you know, like they can try their best and they 549 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: can have the best intentions, but it's impossible. 550 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 2: It's yeah, it's so hard that even I think as women, 551 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,360 Speaker 2: it's hard to empathize with other women before you've gone 552 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 2: through it yourself, you know, like you just have. You 553 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:22,120 Speaker 2: almost don't have the capacity for knowing what something as 554 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,440 Speaker 2: big as motherhood is like until you've entered into it yourself. 555 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 1: Do you guys still come to LA a lot? 556 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 2: We do? We come out a lot. I was there, 557 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,439 Speaker 2: We were there for Christmas in years, and I was 558 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,919 Speaker 2: there last month too, in February. I mean my because 559 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 2: of the fires, my book tour events that were meant 560 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 2: to be Like at the end of week one, I 561 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 2: have three nights in LA were need to be rescheduled 562 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,360 Speaker 2: because I obviously couldn't come to them. So I'm trying 563 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 2: to if. 564 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:50,680 Speaker 1: You need anyone else to host one for you, I 565 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 1: would leve. 566 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 2: To, Oh, thank you, that'd be awesome. I'll give you updated. 567 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 2: I've got to like figure out I don't even know 568 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 2: what long of them to do that. You know, we're 569 00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 2: still but I. 570 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 1: Know, I saw that you were in Monacito with Jordana. 571 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,879 Speaker 2: I did Monasito, which was amazing. Godmother's Bookstore is so 572 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:07,680 Speaker 2: it's amazing. 573 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: My friend Sam, that's her. Yeah, it's such an amazing place. 574 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,360 Speaker 2: It's beautiful and you're lucky, and it was so like 575 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 2: Monasito is obviously ideal. And then and I did a 576 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,119 Speaker 2: bookstore in Francisco called womb House. Well it's actually in 577 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:28,639 Speaker 2: Oaklands called Womhouse. That was extremely cool and I'm still 578 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,640 Speaker 2: missing my l a part of the West Coast. 579 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 1: It was, I mean, that was the craziest time ever. 580 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 2: It was and the people like dming me, being like, 581 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 2: are you still calming? And I was like, no, no, no. 582 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 2: I watched the news. 583 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 1: We had to move my son's bar mitzvah. Wow we did, 584 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: but we just did it last weekend and it was 585 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 1: heaven on Earth. 586 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 2: It tell me everything. 587 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: It was. I'm depressed. I'm so sad it's over. It 588 00:28:58,440 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: was so fun. 589 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 2: It was, well, you get to do another you have 590 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 2: two other kids, You're not done. 591 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: I'm not done. It was so fun. But he was 592 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: so into playing, like he was just so into it, 593 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 1: and it was cute, you know, as they get older, 594 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: it's so how old is guy seven? 595 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 2: By seven? 596 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, so Gus is my guess is seven to He 597 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: was May twenty seventeen. And it's funny because Ace, you 598 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: have a boy and a girl, But Ace and Jewels 599 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 1: are like very similar. They're into the kind of the 600 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 1: same things, like hardcore wrap sports. And then Gus is 601 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 1: literally Liza Minelli, like he just came out and it 602 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 1: is just just like the way that these people come 603 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,239 Speaker 1: into the world is exactly how they're meant to be, 604 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: you know, like they just are who they are. 605 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 2: I know. I I think a lot about how like 606 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 2: there's so much bad stuff happening in the world, and 607 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 2: I look at all of these grown up men who 608 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 2: are causing so much pain, and I'm like, if you 609 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 2: could just remember what it was like to be you 610 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 2: when you are six. 611 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: It's probably too painful for them. And they haven't had 612 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 1: any therapy. 613 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, but little boy, little six, seven eight year old 614 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 2: little boys are so pure and loving and they just 615 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 2: are perfectly who they are and they don't question themselves 616 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 2: and there's no insecurity and there's no ego and they're 617 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 2: just like kind and delightful and full of love and 618 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 2: they look at the world, they find their passion and 619 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 2: they become obsessed with things and they're so like wonderful, 620 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 2: and I'm just like, why can't adults all be more 621 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:35,479 Speaker 2: like that? I know, what? 622 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 1: Is guy into. 623 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 2: Skateboarding trying to get me to let him watch the 624 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 2: movie Scream, which is never gonna happen. 625 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: My dad is in that movie? 626 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 2: What? Oh my god, Well, my son's obsessed with it. 627 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 2: He thinks that I'm gonna let him walk every year. 628 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 2: I'm like, maybe next year. 629 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 1: He has the mask at his house. When you guys 630 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 1: come to La, you can see he can see. 631 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 2: My kid's favorite mask. He's been this guy from Scream 632 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 2: every year for Halloweens. And so was like four, and 633 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 2: I'm like, so fun, you're seven, you're not watching it. 634 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 2: I watched it when I was thirteen in the movie theaters, 635 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 2: and I was never the same, Like. 636 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: I know, I cannot watch scary movies. I just cannot 637 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: do it. 638 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 2: No, no, I'm so triggered by it. Any movie with 639 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 2: like an animal getting hurt, a small child getting hurt. 640 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 1: No, no I won't, I cannot. 641 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 2: I won't. 642 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, no, I won't. 643 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 2: But actually, when they are so obsessed with scary movies. 644 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 2: It's like so off limits to them, but they're advertised 645 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 2: for that's amazing, though, oh yeah, he's like seen signs 646 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 2: for it. There was like a newer one, I guess 647 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 2: in the subway, so he thought, you really wanted to 648 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 2: watch Scream, but he I let him watch. One of 649 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 2: my best friends directed a movie that's for like twelve 650 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 2: year old little boys called The Scouts Guide to the 651 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 2: Zombie Apocalypse. I don't know if you if any of 652 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 2: your kids have seen that. It's now darling. It's great. 653 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 2: It's like a really well made. 654 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 1: Okay, we'll do it. I'm like family scary. 655 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 2: Movie for kids. But I let my kid watch it 656 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 2: when he was like five maybe, and I got a 657 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 2: freaking call from his kindergarten being like, your son is 658 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 2: either really creative or he's been actually allowed to watch 659 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 2: a movie where a zombie eats a woman's ass, And 660 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, I did let him, and. 661 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: That's okay. Guess is obsessed with mean girls, which I 662 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 1: let him watch. 663 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 2: And that's totally acceptable. 664 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: That education, it's not, and he, you know, is he 665 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: they go to They all go to the same school, 666 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: but the upper school campus is on it is like 667 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 1: two streets away, and he called his brother a dirty rat, 668 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 1: an ugly rat or something, and you know, being funny. 669 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: But I guess apparently it wasn't funny to Chules. But 670 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 1: you know, we do our best. 671 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 2: Whatever keeps him entertained off the time. But he's that 672 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 2: kid's not watching screams while he's at least like eleven. 673 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: No, it's scary. It was terrified. 674 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 2: It's so scary, all of them. I still have parts 675 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 2: of all of them. And I'm forty, so I know. 676 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: No, how did your husband what was like when he 677 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 1: first read it? I mean, he sounds like the most 678 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 1: supportive human being, and he encouraged you to write this book. 679 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 1: But was it hard for him to kind of relive 680 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 1: those moments too? 681 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 2: It was funny because I don't think it was hard 682 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 2: from like like, uh, I don't think it like hurt 683 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 2: his feelings. 684 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 1: No, for him being a dick. 685 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe it embarrassed him a little bit, But I 686 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 2: think that he was really interested to read it totally 687 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 2: from my perspective, because he was just like, umlike any 688 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 2: grown up can understand this, Like it was not his experience, right, 689 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 2: the way he experienced me being so depressed and stuff. 690 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 2: Was just that I hated him, Like he was like 691 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 2: I thought you just like were over it and wanted 692 00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 2: to divorce and wanted out of this relationship. Like he 693 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 2: had no idea that there was being deeper at play, which, 694 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 2: by the way, NAO did I It's not like I 695 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 2: was sitting there going, oh my god, this postpartum depression 696 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,800 Speaker 2: is the cause of all of my like anger and rage, 697 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 2: and I have to process that, like I didn't have 698 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 2: mastery over my feelings. All I thought about was just 699 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,719 Speaker 2: I was like filled with pure hate, you know, And 700 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 2: that's all he read. He just thought that I was 701 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:28,239 Speaker 2: that I despised him. And it is crazy how like 702 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 2: two people who are so close, who live in the 703 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 2: same house, who spend all this time together blah blah blah, 704 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:37,160 Speaker 2: can still have like vastly different interpretations of a shared experience. 705 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,359 Speaker 2: And so I think it was like I think more 706 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 2: than anything, he was like curious to know minute by 707 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,880 Speaker 2: minute what it was like from my perspective, and that 708 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 2: was kind of fun. 709 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: Like when he read it, did you just like watch 710 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:50,359 Speaker 1: him reading it? 711 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,320 Speaker 2: Yeah? And also I mean I remember he like printed 712 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 2: it out punched holds in it and like put it 713 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,240 Speaker 2: in a binder so it wasn't just like a PDOF 714 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,120 Speaker 2: on this phone, because this was, you know, before or 715 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 2: we had. This was a really long time ago. Like 716 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,880 Speaker 2: he's read every draft and he was like, this is 717 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,439 Speaker 2: a page churner, and I was like, because it's about 718 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 2: you and me, so like it's fun for you to read, 719 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 2: you know, like we don't know what it's like for 720 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 2: other people, but I keep hearing from people like you, 721 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:20,400 Speaker 2: which is so kind to be Like, no, I couldn't 722 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,960 Speaker 2: put it down literally, like maybe he was right, like 723 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 2: even strangers feel that way. I assume I had a thought, 724 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 2: well he's saying that, but it's just because like he's 725 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 2: in it and he knows all the characters and whatever. 726 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 1: But I know you're so deep in this book, but 727 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 1: I'm like, when's the next. 728 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 2: Oh. 729 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 1: I loved it one thing. Yeah, I literally loved every 730 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:47,080 Speaker 1: minute of it because it felt so relatable and even 731 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:51,840 Speaker 1: though you know too and we're complete strangers, and it 732 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,440 Speaker 1: felt relatable and so many things like I need so 733 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: many notes in my phone, which I've never done, like 734 00:35:58,120 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 1: you know, and I'd also like to know what's the 735 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:01,839 Speaker 1: five step oral care process that you do. 736 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, it's not that exciting. Don't worry. I 737 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:10,480 Speaker 2: use a really strong water pic, okay, which I think 738 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:12,839 Speaker 2: is like kind of the most important part. Honestly, I 739 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,520 Speaker 2: love a water pic. My husband like hacked this water 740 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 2: pick and attached it to a Mikita battery, which is 741 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:24,759 Speaker 2: incredibly powerful, so it like blasts water out. And then 742 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,360 Speaker 2: I floss, and then I brush, and I do not 743 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:32,600 Speaker 2: like an electric toothbrush. And then I tongue scrape okay, 744 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:37,439 Speaker 2: and then I use a very particular mouth flash it's 745 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,440 Speaker 2: like alcohol free and blah blah. I can't remember the 746 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:41,240 Speaker 2: name right now, but I can send you a picture. 747 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:49,919 Speaker 2: And I do not like coconut oil pulling. That does 748 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 2: not work for me. 749 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:52,440 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, Because I was going to ask, because I 750 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 1: wrote that was in my notes, what is the fire 751 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 1: non negotiable oral care? 752 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, And everyone's like, well, have you thought about adding 753 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:00,600 Speaker 2: oil pulling? And I'm like, yeah, it's the grossest thing 754 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:01,879 Speaker 2: I ever tried to do. I'm not really. 755 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:04,879 Speaker 1: I couldn't do it. It made me like I felt 756 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:05,839 Speaker 1: like I was gonna throw up. 757 00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:08,719 Speaker 2: I was like, this isn't gonna the benefits of that. 758 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,040 Speaker 2: There's no way the benefits outweigh how like horrible doing 759 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:15,760 Speaker 2: it is. I would rather just go to the dentist 760 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,320 Speaker 2: one or two more times a year for extra things. 761 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:19,920 Speaker 2: Have to do this? 762 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's dorrial. And are you still friends with Petunia 763 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 1: and Augusta? Yeah, for sure, they're such good friends, I know, 764 00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:29,359 Speaker 1: really good friends. 765 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,640 Speaker 2: I'm so lucky. And you know, there are certain like aspects, 766 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 2: not aspects of their characters really, but maybe like stories 767 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 2: that I had experienced with other friends that I wove 768 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 2: into their stories in this book, because like you know, 769 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,560 Speaker 2: I would have one conversation with one person that didn't 770 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:46,680 Speaker 2: justify them being a whole character, but I wanted some 771 00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 2: aspects of it. But I hope that you could tell, 772 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,719 Speaker 2: like they're really three dimensional, real people who like really 773 00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 2: mattered to you. Yeah, I'm so lucky. I have really 774 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,160 Speaker 2: strong female friendships in New York and I'm not from here, 775 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,680 Speaker 2: so like it took a lot to develop those. But 776 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:09,719 Speaker 2: it's really, I realized, just so essential because you I mean, 777 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,960 Speaker 2: you're from LA but like even so, I don't know 778 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 2: how close you live with your parents. It's just so 779 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:20,360 Speaker 2: nice to like have your own community. Yeah, it's a 780 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:21,120 Speaker 2: family you make. 781 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:23,600 Speaker 1: It's a family you choose. I mean, I love my family. 782 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:27,440 Speaker 1: I live two minutes away from my parents actually, but 783 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,400 Speaker 1: I have all my best friends from growing up. We 784 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,360 Speaker 1: call each other the Lifers. There's seven of us, wow, 785 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,839 Speaker 1: and we're super tight. And so to make a friend 786 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,040 Speaker 1: as an adult has been like such a privilege, and 787 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 1: it's so rare because like you meet people and then 788 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 1: you're like, oh, I like them so much, and then 789 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 1: you're like, oh, wait, they're so weird or they do 790 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,439 Speaker 1: something you know, or there's like something else here. Yeah, 791 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:51,759 Speaker 1: there's just like something this at least, like I know, 792 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 1: we know are crazy. And so I've made some friends 793 00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:56,880 Speaker 1: as an adult, and like those friends are just as 794 00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,839 Speaker 1: important to me as my friends that I've been friends 795 00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:02,040 Speaker 1: with since I was, you know, seven years old and 796 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:02,719 Speaker 1: I'm forty four. 797 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,600 Speaker 2: So, oh, you're so lucky. You must have a huge 798 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:06,200 Speaker 2: group of friends. 799 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:12,359 Speaker 1: I'm so lucky. But also, like these friends that I've 800 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,000 Speaker 1: made as an adult, one of them was just here. 801 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,319 Speaker 1: She moved to DC. She actually also works in art, 802 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:20,359 Speaker 1: and she just had her fortieth birthday and she came 803 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 1: out to LA and I threw a dinner for a 804 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,440 Speaker 1: mister Chown. It was so fun and I was like, 805 00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 1: I've only known you for eight years, and I feel 806 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 1: like I feel like you're like my sister. Like I 807 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 1: feel like I've known you my whole life. And I 808 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 1: think that meeting friends as an adult or at different 809 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,200 Speaker 1: stages in your life is so important because I'm so 810 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,439 Speaker 1: different than I was when I was seven and met 811 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:39,480 Speaker 1: you know, my lifers. 812 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:45,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, it really allows you to evolve. Yeah, and helps 813 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,319 Speaker 2: you to evolve, and like, I don't know, I'm sure 814 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,719 Speaker 2: you have also really widened your circle with your nonprofit. 815 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,319 Speaker 2: I feel like when you find your passion and like 816 00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:58,760 Speaker 2: the thing that makes you light up, you know, outside 817 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,840 Speaker 2: of motherhood and stuff. Yeah, you can develop like a 818 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,240 Speaker 2: whole new circle of people based on Like my great 819 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:08,320 Speaker 2: love since I was a kid has been ballet. But I, 820 00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:10,800 Speaker 2: after realizing I wasn't going to be a professional dancer, 821 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,560 Speaker 2: stepped away from it in any capacity until maybe like 822 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,719 Speaker 2: the last ten years when I had a little more 823 00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 2: money and could, like you know, donated for it. And 824 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:28,239 Speaker 2: but it's brought so many Wait, by the way, as 825 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:29,359 Speaker 2: your friend Brady. 826 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:31,960 Speaker 1: No, but Brady's best friend Emily. 827 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:33,640 Speaker 2: Okay, so funny because I was going to say I 828 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:35,560 Speaker 2: think Brady just from forty, lives in DC and works 829 00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:35,839 Speaker 2: in art. 830 00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,160 Speaker 1: So like Brady Brady's Brady's good friend in DC is 831 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:43,440 Speaker 1: Emily Esher Amazing. Okay, yeah, and I like Brady Brady 832 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:45,839 Speaker 1: and I met. Brady and I met when we were 833 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,680 Speaker 1: both pregnant with our third in Palm Springs at a hotel. 834 00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:50,160 Speaker 1: We were seated next to each other and we were 835 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,680 Speaker 1: both just like exasperated and we started talking. And then 836 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:57,320 Speaker 1: my friend Emily moved to d C and became super 837 00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:58,080 Speaker 1: close with Brady. 838 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:05,479 Speaker 2: Small freaking world, I know, girl. Wow, Okay. I love 839 00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,560 Speaker 2: developing new friendships with people who like share my passion 840 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:12,880 Speaker 2: because I can like fully nerd out and have you know, 841 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,520 Speaker 2: now I have my like ballet board friends and stuff 842 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,440 Speaker 2: like that, and I can like it's like people to 843 00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:20,799 Speaker 2: do this thing, this weird, niche thing that I love 844 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:22,560 Speaker 2: so much with like go sit at the ballet and 845 00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,799 Speaker 2: like analyze every minute of it after and you know, 846 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,440 Speaker 2: it's like I don't know, men finding someone they love 847 00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:30,040 Speaker 2: to talk sports with or something. 848 00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's so important. 849 00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:34,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a real gift as a woman to find 850 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,239 Speaker 2: that level of connection, and obviously was like a huge 851 00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,279 Speaker 2: part of my journey and really important, but it takes 852 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:42,960 Speaker 2: a lot of work. You know, Like women have so 853 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,680 Speaker 2: much on their plates because we're all so like culturally 854 00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:50,640 Speaker 2: trained to be incredible executive functioning multitaskers, and we take 855 00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:53,000 Speaker 2: on everything because it's just like easier than trying to 856 00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:55,319 Speaker 2: get your husband to do it. So we all have 857 00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,759 Speaker 2: so much going on. It's like, I think it's really 858 00:41:57,800 --> 00:41:59,799 Speaker 2: hard for a lot of women, especially if they don't 859 00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:03,040 Speaker 2: have the modeling of their mother being very social, it 860 00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:06,280 Speaker 2: can be really hard to like know how to develop 861 00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,040 Speaker 2: and keep up strong female relationships. Like my mom didn't 862 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:10,960 Speaker 2: have a lot of friends growing up. She was kind 863 00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,560 Speaker 2: of you know, I don't my mom was I think 864 00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 2: an anomaly in her community. Like she worked outside of 865 00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,520 Speaker 2: the home in the nineties in Indiana. When people read 866 00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,799 Speaker 2: the book, they'll know this, And she didn't have a 867 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,440 Speaker 2: huge group of female friends. And I never like she 868 00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:29,240 Speaker 2: didn't model behavior for you know, she wasn't throwing dinners 869 00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:31,400 Speaker 2: at home, She wasn't having book club at home for 870 00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:35,160 Speaker 2: her girlfriends. She wasn't organizing dinners out for them. Like 871 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,399 Speaker 2: I didn't really have modeling for how to develop really 872 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,080 Speaker 2: close adult female friendships and kind of had to like 873 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:44,359 Speaker 2: make it up on my own. But I determined soon 874 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,560 Speaker 2: after moving to New York, like it was very important 875 00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,600 Speaker 2: for my happiness here because I was so deeply lonely 876 00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,520 Speaker 2: when I left my family and felt like ripped from 877 00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,239 Speaker 2: them by just going to college, which is you know, 878 00:42:56,360 --> 00:43:01,000 Speaker 2: totally normal, but like because I'm old, like I didn't 879 00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:03,920 Speaker 2: have like an iPhone, and I remember just being so 880 00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:05,719 Speaker 2: lonely and being like, all right, well, you're going to 881 00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,080 Speaker 2: have to make like real friends here if you expect 882 00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:11,400 Speaker 2: this to work out, because it's a cold, lonely place otherwise. 883 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,360 Speaker 2: And it's just been like the most important thing to 884 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:16,239 Speaker 2: me as to live in New York is to have 885 00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,200 Speaker 2: as many awesome girlfriends as possible. And people think New 886 00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,560 Speaker 2: Yorkers are mean and New York is a scary place. 887 00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:26,080 Speaker 2: It's the nicest women ever because it's easier plan totally, 888 00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:30,560 Speaker 2: there's so many opportunities to be social. It's not I 889 00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:33,680 Speaker 2: don't have to and everyone most people here are transplants, 890 00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,600 Speaker 2: so they're so excited to like also make friends. And 891 00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,200 Speaker 2: most people here work and are really committed to their work, 892 00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:43,759 Speaker 2: so you like need for networking purposes, even if it's 893 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,040 Speaker 2: just that transactional. You actually like need lots of relationships 894 00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:51,759 Speaker 2: to get anything done. You know, That's what people say. 895 00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,480 Speaker 2: I've never lived there, you know, as an adult. But 896 00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:57,239 Speaker 2: that's like people, especially for dating. People I know who 897 00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,239 Speaker 2: moved to LA are like, oh my god, I know. 898 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,319 Speaker 1: I mean, I husband and I have been together now, 899 00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:03,920 Speaker 1: will be married sixteen years together for twenty. Like there 900 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:05,920 Speaker 1: wasn't even like really a dating app except for like 901 00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,160 Speaker 1: Jay Date, I don't think. So it's like I can't 902 00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,920 Speaker 1: even imagine what that looks like now. And it's not 903 00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:13,520 Speaker 1: like you can just like go out and go to 904 00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:15,520 Speaker 1: a bar and like walk, you know, walk to get 905 00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:17,319 Speaker 1: a drink with a friend. It's just not like that. 906 00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:18,960 Speaker 1: Like my friends who live in Hancock Park, I live 907 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:22,279 Speaker 1: on the West Side, Like I never see you know 908 00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:25,080 Speaker 1: what I mean. Like, it's just so different than living 909 00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:26,839 Speaker 1: in the city. You can just there's so many more 910 00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:30,200 Speaker 1: opportunities to be social. 911 00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:32,439 Speaker 2: Do come to New York a lot? 912 00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:34,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, I come to New York a lot. One of 913 00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:38,680 Speaker 1: our lifers moved there, so we all come visit her. 914 00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, my god, yeah, to New York. 915 00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:43,239 Speaker 1: She moved to New York. She met her husband, who's born 916 00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:45,640 Speaker 1: and raised in New York and he his whole family's there. 917 00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:47,680 Speaker 1: He lives there, he works there. They actually live in 918 00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,319 Speaker 1: the Hamptons now they go back and forth. But during 919 00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:53,400 Speaker 1: COVID they moved out there and it was like my 920 00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,000 Speaker 1: first time ever experiencing the Hamptons, which is like a 921 00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:59,360 Speaker 1: whole other thing, which I much prefer in the fall 922 00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:01,480 Speaker 1: rather than summer. My husband and I were like, what 923 00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:03,440 Speaker 1: is this place? And we never want to go back 924 00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:05,200 Speaker 1: in the summer. We like, couldn't. 925 00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:08,000 Speaker 2: I'm very busy. Yeah, do you feel like Malibu gets 926 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:09,719 Speaker 2: busy like that Malibou or Hampton's. 927 00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's like you're not sitting in a car 928 00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:14,919 Speaker 1: the whole time. You're not like there's not a bunch 929 00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,640 Speaker 1: of like finance bros. Like you know, it's just different. 930 00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:21,200 Speaker 1: It's just like more like a beachy thing than it is. Like, Yeah, 931 00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,040 Speaker 1: but I loved round Swamp Farm. I really loved it 932 00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:26,319 Speaker 1: and wanted to bring it to La. 933 00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,160 Speaker 2: I don't like have a house in Anson's or anything, 934 00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:30,759 Speaker 2: so I've only been there a couple I've been there 935 00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:31,840 Speaker 2: like twice, Like I don't. 936 00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:33,880 Speaker 1: Know, Yeah, it was really it was like an experience, 937 00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,560 Speaker 1: but you know, yeah, but I love the city. And 938 00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:38,920 Speaker 1: I love the city in the summer. 939 00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:42,160 Speaker 2: Oh duh. Yeah, when you like don't have to wear 940 00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:43,600 Speaker 2: clothes and you could walk over there. 941 00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:45,600 Speaker 1: You just like walk everywhere and then you shower, and 942 00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:47,640 Speaker 1: then you walk everywhere and then you shower. I love it. 943 00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:50,239 Speaker 2: I timed this worth very well because I had her 944 00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:52,040 Speaker 2: in the middle. Well, I was meant to have her 945 00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:54,759 Speaker 2: in May, and I just got to like walk around 946 00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:57,359 Speaker 2: with her all summer and where you know, put her 947 00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,480 Speaker 2: little like lightweight lace cotton stuff on her and like 948 00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:04,520 Speaker 2: not worry about her being folds. And yeah, summer here 949 00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:06,560 Speaker 2: is very special and I love it even late in 950 00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:10,840 Speaker 2: the summer when it empties out. Get a reservation anywhere anywhere. 951 00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:14,560 Speaker 1: I loved it. Yeah, yeah, we can visit a lot. 952 00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:15,960 Speaker 1: Do you know Sarah moon Bess at all? 953 00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:17,879 Speaker 2: I do. Yeah, she's my. 954 00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:19,440 Speaker 1: Brother's very best friend. 955 00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:20,640 Speaker 2: Oh my god. 956 00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:22,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, she's like my little sister. 957 00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:25,760 Speaker 2: All right, Well, next time you're here, we'll have drincks. 958 00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:26,520 Speaker 2: Yeah we will. 959 00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,000 Speaker 1: Thank you for doing this. I am such a fan, 960 00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,600 Speaker 1: like a crazy fan's yeah. 961 00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:34,200 Speaker 2: You okay, Well I let you know when I come 962 00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:35,040 Speaker 2: to La too. 963 00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:42,720 Speaker 1: Yeah for sure. Okay, show this guy the screen mask. Bye, Okay, Bye, 964 00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:45,400 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to another episode of 965 00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:49,160 Speaker 1: What in the Winkler. These like share posts tell a friend, 966 00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:55,359 Speaker 1: we can't wait to see you back next week. Bye,