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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class from how

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Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Tracy Vie Wilson. Today we're going back to the

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Speaker 1: world of Swedish royalty. This time it is to Queen Christina.

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Speaker 1: She lived about a hundred years after previous podcast subject

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Speaker 1: Eric the fourteen and she, like him, was also part

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Speaker 1: of the House of Vassa. And her story has a

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Speaker 1: lot of our favorite running podcast themes. Most of them

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Speaker 1: really started with previous hosts, but they've carried on until today.

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Speaker 1: We have a sad royal childhood, we have an abdication,

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Speaker 1: and we even had an exhumation. All in all, Queen

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Speaker 1: Christina was not known for being a particularly great ruler

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Speaker 1: of Sweden, and she abdicated her throne only about a

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Speaker 1: decade into her reign. But she was extremely learned. She

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Speaker 1: spoke a lot of languages. Apart from her native Swedish,

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Speaker 1: there was also Greek, Latin, German, French, Flemish, Italian, Spanish

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Speaker 1: and Finnish, along with a little Hebrew and Arabic. And

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Speaker 1: she helped start the first Swedish newspaper in sixteen forty five,

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Speaker 1: as well as Sweden's first public opera house and its

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Speaker 1: first universal public school program. She amassed a huge collection

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Speaker 1: of arts and literature, and her collection of books and

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Speaker 1: manuscripts later went on to become part of the Vatican

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Speaker 1: Library UH and a sort of a side note, her

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Speaker 1: life became a movie starring Greta Garbo in nineteen thirty three.

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Speaker 1: So her whole life was marked by being this kind

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Speaker 1: of contradictory, restless character, and that started basically from the

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Speaker 1: moment that she was born. So Christina was born to

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Speaker 1: King Gustav Adolf and Maria Eleonora of Brandenburg. Before she

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Speaker 1: was born, her parents had had to stillborn baby's and

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Speaker 1: they also had a daughter who had died before she

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Speaker 1: reached the age of one, so people were really starting

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Speaker 1: to be concerned about the kingdom having an air. Gustav

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Speaker 1: had an illegitimate son who was named Gustav Gustafsson, and

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Speaker 1: he was not eligible for a lot of reasons, including

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Speaker 1: his illegitimacy to be on the throne. King Gustav's Catholic

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Speaker 1: cousin uh Seismund was king of Poland and he had

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Speaker 1: two sons of his own, and people were quite worried

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Speaker 1: that if something had happened to Gustav before he produced

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Speaker 1: a legitimate air uh Seismund was going to take over

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Speaker 1: and make Sweden, which at that point was a staunchly

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Speaker 1: Lutheran country, into a Catholic country, and since since Sigismund

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Speaker 1: had two sons, it seemed like that had the potential

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Speaker 1: to turn into a lasting Catholic dynasty, so it would

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Speaker 1: really have upended Sweden. Maria Eleonora, so Christina's mother, also

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Speaker 1: seemed to to have developed some kind of mental or

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Speaker 1: emotional disorder over the course of her previous pregnancies and

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Speaker 1: the children she had lost. She had always been really

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Speaker 1: affectionate with her husband, but she became just desperately attached

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Speaker 1: to him. She would get really agitated and distressed whenever

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Speaker 1: he was away, which he had to be away quite

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Speaker 1: a lot because he was king. Her language skills and

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Speaker 1: her handwriting started to deteriorate, and her behavior became really erratic.

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Speaker 1: People started to worry about her ability to conceive and

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Speaker 1: to carry a healthy child to term. However, despite all

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Speaker 1: of those potential issues, uh, five years into Gustave and

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Speaker 1: Maria Eleonora's marriage, Maria became pregnant with Christina, who was

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Speaker 1: born on December eighth of sixty six, that's in the

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Speaker 1: Julian calendar, uh, which would be December eighteenth under the

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Speaker 1: modern Gregorian calendar. And she was a little early and

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Speaker 1: born in call, so that means her amniotic membrane was

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Speaker 1: still intact and covering her once she was born, and

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Speaker 1: so the midwives removed the membrane and they declared her

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Speaker 1: initially to be a boy, uh, and words spread around

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Speaker 1: the castle to a great deal of celebration. However, once

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Speaker 1: the excitement was over and they took a longer and

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Speaker 1: more careful look at her, they almost immediately realized she

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Speaker 1: was actually a girl. And everybody was sort of afraid

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Speaker 1: how the king would react. I mean, they had had

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Speaker 1: all of these previous strategy tragedies and all that's build up,

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Speaker 1: and they had just told him joyfully that he had

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Speaker 1: a son now. Um, so nobody told him about the

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Speaker 1: mistake until the next day. That kind of cracks me up. Uh.

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Speaker 1: There's been a great deal of speculation about what may

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Speaker 1: have caused this misidentification on the part of the midwives

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Speaker 1: to believe that Christina was a boy rather than a girl.

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Speaker 1: There have been theories bandied about that she had an

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Speaker 1: intersex condition and some kind of chromosomal disorder, and that

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Speaker 1: her external genitalia may have exhibited both male and female traits.

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Speaker 1: Another theories that her body was simply ambiguous and that

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Speaker 1: the lighting was poor, and that there could have been

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Speaker 1: a little wishful thinking in the mix, and that the

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Speaker 1: midwives saw initially what they wanted to see, which would

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Speaker 1: have been a male heir. There are a lot of

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Speaker 1: family memoirs from this time who portray the king is

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Speaker 1: being just enormously and immediately welcoming and accepting of the

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Speaker 1: fact that he actually had a daughter. Uh, and some

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Speaker 1: of that is kind of glossing over the initial shock

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Speaker 1: and upset that he did have um having a daughter

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Speaker 1: instead of a son was a big upset. They had

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Speaker 1: been trying for a long time to have a male

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Speaker 1: heir and now they didn't. But he did quickly warm

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Speaker 1: to the idea of having a daughter and of raising

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Speaker 1: his daughter like a prince. Christina's mother, on the other hand,

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Speaker 1: was devastated that after so many attempts, now she had

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Speaker 1: a daughter and not the son that she had been,

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Speaker 1: you know, basically tasked with providing for the kingdom. So

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Speaker 1: she basically shunned her daughter for a lot of her

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Speaker 1: early life. Uh and Gustav decided that Christina, in spite

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Speaker 1: of being female, would indeed be his heir, and he

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Speaker 1: wanted her her, as Tracy said just a moment ago,

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Speaker 1: to have a princely upbringing. And this was not just

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Speaker 1: in terms of her education and her intended role as

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Speaker 1: as the leader of the country, but also in terms

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Speaker 1: of her sort of day to day exercise and the

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Speaker 1: pastimes that that they would kind of nurture her into

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Speaker 1: as she grew up. This suited her just fine. She

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Speaker 1: was not at all fond of the duties and pastimes

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Speaker 1: that genuine that generally fell to women at the time.

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Speaker 1: Her father wanted her to learn to ride, and to

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Speaker 1: fight and to handle a bow, and she did all that,

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Speaker 1: and she did it well, and her demeanor was not

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Speaker 1: at all typically feminine. I think today people would have

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Speaker 1: called her a tomboy. And just for clarity, it really

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Speaker 1: was not unheard of for girls to have the same

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Speaker 1: education as boys, especially when they were in line for

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Speaker 1: the throne. And so Christina's schoolmates are part of her childhood,

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Speaker 1: were actually two female cousins, the fighting and the hunting

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Speaker 1: and the bow work. However, we're not really typical pursuits

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Speaker 1: for girls or women, so the idea of Christina as

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Speaker 1: his heir was not just an idle fancy on Gustav's partner.

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Speaker 1: He started making real plans to confirm her as his

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Speaker 1: successor while she was still a baby. The Thirty Years

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Speaker 1: War had been going on for about eight years by

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Speaker 1: the time Christina was born, and Adolph knew that it

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Speaker 1: was very possible that he would be killed in battle.

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Speaker 1: So in addition to officially naming her as his successor,

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Speaker 1: he started looking for suitable candidates for her to marry

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Speaker 1: when she got older to cement the hereditary line to

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Speaker 1: the throne. The primary candidate was a cousin of hers

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Speaker 1: named Carl Gustav. He also had his chancellor named Axel Oxenstierna,

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Speaker 1: along with five regents to rule in his and his

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Speaker 1: daughter's stead. However, he didn't really have an active part

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Speaker 1: in raising his young heir. He was needed in the war,

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Speaker 1: and Christina's mother wanted nothing to do with her, so

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Speaker 1: Christina spent most of her early childhood living with cousins,

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Speaker 1: except for being dropped once when she was a baby

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Speaker 1: and that was possibly on purpose by someone with Catholic leanings.

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Speaker 1: It was mostly a happy few years. She was surrounded

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Speaker 1: by other children close to her own age. She had

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Speaker 1: playmates and friends and other girls who were studying with her,

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Speaker 1: So this part of her earlier life, in spite of

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Speaker 1: being separated from her parents, was not all that bad.

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Speaker 1: But when she was just five, so still very young,

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Speaker 1: her father was killed in the Battle of Lutzen, and

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Speaker 1: Christina's mother of course completely distraught. Uh. We talked about

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Speaker 1: how clingy and sort of almost obsessive she had become

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Speaker 1: with king. So her mother had the King's heart removed

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Speaker 1: and placed in a golden casket so that she could

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Speaker 1: keep it with her. Her behavior continued to become increasingly bizarre,

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Speaker 1: and she spent a lot of money on a really

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Speaker 1: elaborate funeral. She also did not bury the king's body

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Speaker 1: right away. Now, this was not entirely unheard of at

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Speaker 1: the time, especially when it was wintertime and the ground

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Speaker 1: was frozen and it was difficult for people to travel

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Speaker 1: for that sort of thing. But Gustav's body wound up

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Speaker 1: being buried nineteen months after his death, and this was

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Speaker 1: over the fierce objections of his wife, who had kept

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Speaker 1: it lying in state and spent hours and hours at

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Speaker 1: a time viewing it. At some point she even kept

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Speaker 1: the coffin in her own bedroom so she could have

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Speaker 1: it close by. So, as we said, not a typical

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Speaker 1: for there to be a long delay at this point

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Speaker 1: between when king was, when the king died, and when

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Speaker 1: the king was buried. But this was a really long time,

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Speaker 1: and Maria Eleanora's displays of grief were not at all

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Speaker 1: typical for the time. So the king was finally buried,

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Speaker 1: and does that happened? Maria Eleonora took custody of Christina,

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Speaker 1: and she took her out of the home where she

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Speaker 1: had been and had friends and playmates, and she moved

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Speaker 1: her into a much more lonely and erratic and just

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Speaker 1: sort of cold existence that was largely just the two

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Speaker 1: of them together. And this is where Christina's royal childhood

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Speaker 1: became kind of sad. She started having these really sudden illnesses,

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Speaker 1: and the general agreement is that these were brought on

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Speaker 1: by the stress of the situation. She generally got better

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Speaker 1: pretty quickly, but she got sick over and over again.

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Speaker 1: It was a frequent occurrence, in part to get some

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Speaker 1: distance from her mother, she really threw herself into her

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Speaker 1: education and into training and into exercise. She sort of

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Speaker 1: dove even farther into the more masculine parts of her upbringing.

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Speaker 1: And before we move into when she actually ascended to

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Speaker 1: the throne, Holly, would you like to take a minute

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Speaker 1: for a brief word from a sponsor. It sounds like

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Speaker 1: a capital idea. And now let's get back to Christina

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Speaker 1: of Sweden and now when she's going to actually become queen,

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Speaker 1: and becoming queen and her ascension to the throne really

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Speaker 1: was not as simple as just being the king's daughter

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Speaker 1: and surviving to adulthood to be crowned. Sweden was an

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Speaker 1: elective monarchy, so even if someone had inherited the throne,

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Speaker 1: they still had to be accepted by the Reek's Dog,

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Speaker 1: which was Sweden's parliament, as well as the Swedish senators.

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Speaker 1: This meant that the four estates of the reeks Dog,

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Speaker 1: which were the clergy, the nobles, the burghers, and the peasants,

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Speaker 1: all had to be in favor of Christina's presence on

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Speaker 1: the throne in order for her to actually become the queen.

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Speaker 1: And the end they were and Christina became the Queen

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Speaker 1: of the Swedes, Goths and Vandals, Great Princess of Finland,

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Speaker 1: Duchess of Estonia and Karelia, and Lady of Ingria, and

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Speaker 1: she basically carried herself as a ruler right from the beginning.

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Speaker 1: The Chancellor began to allow her to attend council meetings

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Speaker 1: and participate as early as the age of fourteen. She

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Speaker 1: was officially crowned at the age of eighteen, so she

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Speaker 1: was kind of doing the work of this job for

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Speaker 1: several years before it was made official. She was, at

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Speaker 1: that point simultaneously a diminutive young woman. She had very

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Speaker 1: fine hands and beautiful blue eyes, but she was also

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Speaker 1: a very masculine for she walked the walk, she talked

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Speaker 1: to talk, and she swore like a soldier. Christina and

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Speaker 1: Chancellor Axel Oxensternia did not see eye to eye. The

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Speaker 1: Chancellor had done a really good job of ruling between

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Speaker 1: the death of her father and her age of majority,

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Speaker 1: and even when the king was still alive, the two

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Speaker 1: men had really worked together to run the kingdom and

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Speaker 1: to plan and make decisions. Axel had been an efficient

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Speaker 1: and pragmatic diplomat, and he was well respected among the

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Speaker 1: Reeks dog and among Sweden's military leaders. But Christina was

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Speaker 1: a proud and arrogant eighteen year old and she really

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Speaker 1: felt like it was her time to shine, and so

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Speaker 1: she and Excel butted heads. They did so repeatedly and often.

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Speaker 1: If this were a modern day film, you would maybe

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Speaker 1: expect them to end up falling in love somehow, but

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Speaker 1: would work out that way in real life. Yes, that

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Speaker 1: would definitely be the romantic comedy version version of Christina

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Speaker 1: of Sweden. They also started to have financial problems in

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Speaker 1: the kingdom pretty early in her reign. She tried to

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Speaker 1: continue her father's generosity with the royal coffers, but she

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Speaker 1: wasn't nearly as careful about it as he had been.

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Speaker 1: She got into this cycle of giving away too much

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Speaker 1: and then selling noble titles to try to earn some

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Speaker 1: more money, and then raising taxes on the people she

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Speaker 1: had just promoted. It did not work out well. It

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Speaker 1: was not an efficient way of bridging the gap, kind

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Speaker 1: of like a cascading circle of bad decisions. Um Naturally,

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Speaker 1: in the midst of all of this, everyone wanted her

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Speaker 1: to marry Uh. In addition to Carl Gustav, another student,

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Speaker 1: there was Friedrich Wilhelm of Brandenburg, who ended up marrying

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Speaker 1: someone else, and Christina had a not all that clandestine

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Speaker 1: affair with one of the ladies of her court, which

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Speaker 1: let do some speculation about her sexual orientation, her sex,

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Speaker 1: and her gender, which of course tied back into that

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Speaker 1: initial uh mistake in identifying her sex. In the midst

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Speaker 1: of all of this, popular opinion started to turn against her,

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Speaker 1: and when she was twenty, a man armed with daggers

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Speaker 1: tried to kill her while she was at prayer. Her

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Speaker 1: life being apparently legitimately at risk, put a lot more

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Speaker 1: pressure on her to get married, which was an idea

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Speaker 1: that she continued to resist. And about this same time,

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Speaker 1: the Thirty Years War was drawing to a close, which

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Speaker 1: was something she herself was greatly in favor of, but

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Speaker 1: not everyone felt the same. Many Protestant clergy wanted the

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Speaker 1: war to continue until there could be a decisive Protestant

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Speaker 1: victory over because policism. Others wanted it to continue just

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Speaker 1: so that Sweden could continue to collect additional war booty

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Speaker 1: to potentially supplement their their money situation. Yeah, the Thirty

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Speaker 1: Years War was this massive and obviously very lengthy conflict

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Speaker 1: and different nations had different motivations for being involved in it.

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Speaker 1: We haven't really talked about that part of it because

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Speaker 1: it's kind of ancillary to this podcast. But yeah, for

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Speaker 1: Sweden in particular, there were people who felt like ending

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Speaker 1: the war at that point was too soon. But to Christina,

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Speaker 1: as long as the war went on, she could never

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Speaker 1: really be in charge. While she had been accepted as

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Speaker 1: Sweden's queen and she was making lots of decisions for

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Speaker 1: herself as the ruler, she really had no authority over

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Speaker 1: military matters. War was pretty much exclusively a man's game,

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Speaker 1: especially when it came to running the show. So as

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Speaker 1: long as the war went on, the Chancellor and the

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Speaker 1: regents continued to have a major hand in making decisions

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Speaker 1: that Christina could have no control over. Ending the war

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Speaker 1: would and did put an end to one of their

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Speaker 1: sources of power and gave Christina more direct control over

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Speaker 1: pretty much everything that was going on in the kingdom.

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Speaker 1: So the Thirty Years War did indeed end with the

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Speaker 1: Peace of Westphalia in sixteen forty eight, and once the

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Speaker 1: war had concluded, Christina turned her attention to her own

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Speaker 1: court and she began inviting artists, writers and thinkers to

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Speaker 1: the Swedish court. The most famous among all of these

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Speaker 1: was mathematician and philosopher reneed A Cart, who she invited

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Speaker 1: to stay in the palace at Stockholm. He did not

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Speaker 1: really want to go. Sweden was too cold, and it

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Speaker 1: was too far away, and he really doubted that the

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Speaker 1: Lutheran court was going to welcome him with open arms

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Speaker 1: since he was Catholic. But in the end he was

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Speaker 1: convinced to come, and he and a translator went to

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Speaker 1: Sweden in September of sixteen forty nine. His misgivings about

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Speaker 1: going and about staying once he got there were, unfortunately prescients.

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Speaker 1: He got the flu the following January and died. Uh

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Speaker 1: Some people blamed Christina both for bringing him there and

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Speaker 1: for putting huge demands on his time and effort while

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Speaker 1: he was visiting courts. Yet another source of pressure for

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Speaker 1: Christina to marry came in sixteen forty nine when her

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Speaker 1: cousin Jan kazim Years ascended to the throne in Poland.

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Speaker 1: This was the second of Sigismund's two sons who had

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Speaker 1: so worried people before Christina was born. Jan succeeded his

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Speaker 1: late brother and married his late brother's widow who was

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Speaker 1: still young enough to have children. So once again people

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Speaker 1: were threatened by the idea that the monarchy in Poland

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Speaker 1: was going to come to power over Sweden. Instead of marrying, though,

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Speaker 1: Christina did something completely different. She went to the Reek's

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Speaker 1: dog and said that she wanted her cousin, Count Palatine

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Speaker 1: Karl Gustav, the one that she had been intended to marry,

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Speaker 1: to be named as her successor. Threeks Do pretty much

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Speaker 1: scoffed at that entire idea. They were like, you're gonna

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Speaker 1: marry him anyway, so what's the point. Like, that's the

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Speaker 1: guy you're gonna get married to and have babies with,

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Speaker 1: so naming him as your successor now seems silly. They

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Speaker 1: thought this, even though she was still having sudden illnesses.

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Speaker 1: Even even though she was um sick pretty often, people

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Speaker 1: still thought she was young and healthy enough to have

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Speaker 1: a baby. Uh. Christina, not delighted by this reaction, she

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Speaker 1: went back to them and she said it was going

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Speaker 1: to be impossible for her to marry. In her words quote,

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Speaker 1: I am absolutely certain about it. I do not intend

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Speaker 1: to give you reasons. My character is simply not suited

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Speaker 1: to marriage. I have prayed God fervently that my inclination

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Speaker 1: might change, but I simply cannot marry This once again

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Speaker 1: was a completely foreign and kind of silly idea to

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Speaker 1: the Reeks dog and they refused her suggestion. Again. They

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Speaker 1: basically thought she's just gonna agree to marry him eventually.

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Speaker 1: They've been friends since their childhood, they get along fine.

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Speaker 1: Of course they should be married. It seems so clear

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Speaker 1: to them. Yeah, they were. They were really like, well, obviously,

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Speaker 1: you're just going to marry him, so why is why

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Speaker 1: is this a big thing? Are you being fussy? So

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Speaker 1: the thing that ended up changing the reef Stower's minds

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Speaker 1: on this issue was the execution of Charles the First

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Speaker 1: of England. When that happened, leaders began to fear rebellion

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Speaker 1: on multiple fronts, so they wanted to ensure that the

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Speaker 1: line of succession was not going to be interrupted, So

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Speaker 1: in March of sixty nine, they finally agreed to officially

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Speaker 1: named Carl Gustav as Christina's successor, although at that point

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Speaker 1: they really still thought she would end up marrying him

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Speaker 1: and make it all a sort of a moot gesture. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they thought they were humoring her. She, on the other hand,

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Speaker 1: thought she was getting exactly what she wanted. She was

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Speaker 1: still going to get to rule, but she was not

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Speaker 1: going to have to get married and produce an air

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Speaker 1: Carl was going to have to do that. She was

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Speaker 1: off the hook. And before we talk about getting further

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Speaker 1: off the hook, let's take another brief moment for a

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Speaker 1: word from a sponsor that sounds grand. And now let's

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Speaker 1: return to the story of how Queen Christina, having fought

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Speaker 1: so long and so hard to get total control over

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Speaker 1: the throne, abdicated. So although she had started to rule

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Speaker 1: officially at eighteen, and that was after she had already

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Speaker 1: been kind of involved in some government duties, she still

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Speaker 1: wasn't actually crowned until she was twenty three, So it

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Speaker 1: really took quite a long time for her to kind

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Speaker 1: of get all of the dust settled on her official ascension.

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Speaker 1: By the time she was actually planning her coronation, which

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Speaker 1: was scheduled for October of sixteen fifty, she was already

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Speaker 1: thinking abdicating might sound like a good plan. Before she

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Speaker 1: had told anyone about this plan, she started trying to

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Speaker 1: convince the Reeks dog not just to make Carl Gustav

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Speaker 1: her successor if she died, but to make him the

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Speaker 1: actual next hereditary king of Sweden, not just someone to

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Speaker 1: sort of run things in the event of her untimely

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Speaker 1: death until another real king could be found and elected.

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Speaker 1: And they said no. Um, so she pulled a series

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Speaker 1: of political strings until they finally agreed. She basically pitted

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Speaker 1: all of the different classes against one another and like

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Speaker 1: played up the you know, the noble sphere of the

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Speaker 1: common people taking over and the common people's fear of

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Speaker 1: the nobles, until they all agreed that if if she

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Speaker 1: would just give them a break, that they would do

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Speaker 1: what she asked. Uh. In August of sixteen fifty one,

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Speaker 1: so less than a year after her very extravagant coronation,

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Speaker 1: she h informed the Senate that she planned to abdicate,

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Speaker 1: and she spent the next several months trying to convince

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Speaker 1: the reefs Dog to allow it. I feel like she

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Speaker 1: spent her entire time trying to convince the reefs dog

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Speaker 1: of things. That is pretty accurate. There was a lot

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Speaker 1: of her trying to get the reefs dog to do

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Speaker 1: what she wanted. Um, they were not buying this at all.

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Speaker 1: And so after this couple of months of really trying

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Speaker 1: to convince them. She dropped the matter for a couple

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Speaker 1: of years, but during the interim she started meeting with

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Speaker 1: Jesuits and talking about converting to Catholicism. So we have

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Speaker 1: talked about up to this point, you know, some pretty

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Speaker 1: deep seated um discord between the religions, and so for

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Speaker 1: her to want to convert, that's big stuff. Uh. Catholicism

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Speaker 1: was a religion that had really appealed to her since

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Speaker 1: she was quite young. When she was nine, a tutor

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Speaker 1: had told her that Catholicism did not allow lay people

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Speaker 1: to read the Bible, it encouraged celibacy and believed in purgatory,

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Speaker 1: and her reaction to all of that was, oh, what

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Speaker 1: a lovely religion. In early sixteen fifty four, when everyone

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Speaker 1: thought this whole matter of advocating had just been dropped,

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Speaker 1: Christina announced once again that she was going to advocate.

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Speaker 1: She negotiated a settlement that granted her some lands and

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Speaker 1: some money, and it apt her as the sovereign of Sweden,

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Speaker 1: so she didn't have to handle any of her royal responsibilities.

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Speaker 1: But she was still a queen regardless of how you

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Speaker 1: feel about her. Her various ways of running the kingdom

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Speaker 1: that we're not all that great. This was kind of

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Speaker 1: a masterful string pulling to get exactly the best possible

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Speaker 1: situation for her to be in. Yeah, like all of

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Speaker 1: the benefits, none of the responsibilities. So she abdicated that may,

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Speaker 1: leaving the palace before midnight on the night of Karl

400
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Speaker 1: Gustav's coronation. She was like the person that leaves the

401
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Speaker 1: wedding reception early. In this case, she was like, ye'all

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Speaker 1: have fun, I'm out of here. So there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of theories about exactly why she was so set

404
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Speaker 1: on abdicating. Her explanation was that she thought that they

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Speaker 1: really needed a man to rule the country, in particular

406
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Speaker 1: to lead the army. So if you know, there were

407
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Speaker 1: another future war that the country was going to participate, Haiden,

408
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 1: they would be better off with a male king than

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Speaker 1: with a female queen. She also said that the pressures

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Speaker 1: of ruling had been too much for her and that

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Speaker 1: she needed to rest. And as we've made pretty clear,

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Speaker 1: she was really deeply opposed to the idea of marrying

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Speaker 1: and she was under immense pressure to do so as queen,

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Speaker 1: And as soon as she was out of Sweden she

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Speaker 1: adopted a more masculine dress, more masculine mannerisms, and a

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Speaker 1: more masculine demeanor, and she converted to Catholicism. She took

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Speaker 1: the names Maria and Alexandra, after Alexander the Great. And

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Speaker 1: I want to make clear here she was not living

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Speaker 1: as a man. She tended to wear trousers instead of

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Speaker 1: dresses and to just behave in a more coarse way

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Speaker 1: than women were expected to, but she did not present

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Speaker 1: herself as a man. She was still apart from a

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Speaker 1: couple of times as she was traveling in disguise, she

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Speaker 1: was still Christina. Her conversion to Catholicism was an enormous deal.

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Speaker 1: Sweden was a Lutheran nation and as Queen Christina was

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Speaker 1: the head of the church, and even though she had

427
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: abdicated her rule, this was still pretty monumental, and she

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00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: was still sovereign, so they still had a lot of

429
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Speaker 1: stock in her religion. So Christina traveled to Rome, where

430
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Speaker 1: she was a guest at the Vatican, something women were

431
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,400
Speaker 1: not generally allowed to do, and she later moved into

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Speaker 1: a palace in Rome, which was her permanent home until

433
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 1: her death, although at various times she was away from

434
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: that palace in Sweden. In Hamburg and elsewhere. While in Rome,

435
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 1: she fell in love with Cardinal Ducchio at Felino, who

436
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:39,439
Speaker 1: was the Pope's representative and a priest, and this seems

437
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: to have been more like a romantic friendship than a

438
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 1: physical relationship, but he did basically break up with her

439
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,719
Speaker 1: in a letter later in their relationship when he quote

440
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 1: freed her. In sixteen fifty seven, while traveling, she became

441
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 1: embroiled in an anti Habsburg plot to seize control of Naples.

442
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 1: This plot had to be abandoned when she learned that

443
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,360
Speaker 1: one of her officers had revealed her plans, so she

444
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 1: had last rites administered to him and then had him

445
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 1: executed in her presence. This was a long and gory execution,

446
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 1: and the Pope did not approve of it, and so

447
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 1: when she returned to Rome, she was no longer allowed

448
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: in the Pope's presence. Yeah, her conversion had basically been

449
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 1: viewed as this giant coup among the Catholic Church. They

450
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 1: she was sort of their golden example of of awesomeness

451
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: for a while, but not anymore after this. Uh. Later

452
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: in her life she also sort of wanted to rule again.

453
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,120
Speaker 1: She had hoped to take the throne of Poland Lithuania,

454
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: another elective monarchy after Yan Kazimir's abdicated Um she really

455
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,360
Speaker 1: did not have any tie to that throne apart from

456
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 1: being a cousin of the previous king. Um she was,

457
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: you know, a vassa and now she was Catholic, and

458
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 1: that was really all that she had to show for

459
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: herself on the matter, and so that attempt failed. She

460
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,199
Speaker 1: also hoped for a while uh in her sort of

461
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: mere curial desires, that she would become Queen of Sweden

462
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 1: again after Karl Gustav's sudden death at the age of

463
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 1: thirty eight, his own successor at the time was only five.

464
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 1: But she did not get her wish in this case

465
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 1: and did not become Queen the ruler of Sweden again.

466
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 1: She spent her last year's mostly keeping to herself, and

467
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 1: she was basically broke when she died in sixteen eighty

468
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 1: nine at the age of sixty two. All of her

469
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: possessions passed to Ducchio Atsolino, although there wasn't enough money

470
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 1: to pay off her debts or to set up legacies

471
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,719
Speaker 1: for some people who had worked with her and deserved them,

472
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 1: which normally would have been part of what a ruler's

473
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: estate would have done. Her tomb is in St. Peter's

474
00:27:54,840 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 1: Basilica in Rome. Her body was exhumed in ninet tried

475
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 1: to determine whether she had an intersex condition or whether

476
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 1: there was some other explanation for the midwives early confusion

477
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: about what her sex was, and then whether that might

478
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: explain her more masculine behavior later on. The results of

479
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 1: that were totally inconclusive. In Christina's description of herself, she

480
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 1: said she had quote an ineradicable prejudice against everything that

481
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: women like to talk about or do in women's words

482
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,199
Speaker 1: and occupations. I showed myself to be quite incapable, and

483
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: I saw no possibility of improvement in this respect. And

484
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: that is Christina. She's quite a fascinating character. She has

485
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: kind of fascinating character. One of the papers that I

486
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: read about her, that which not a lot from it,

487
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 1: made its way into this outline because this outline became

488
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: very long. UH was about the erotic art in her

489
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 1: artwork and how her artwork collection um, and how a

490
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,479
Speaker 1: lot of the people who had previously been owners of

491
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 1: this artwork had kind of kept that off in the

492
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: corner um and not really wanted to be associated with

493
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: the fact that this more erotic art was part of

494
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: their collection. Um. She on the other hand, hung it

495
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 1: all in her grand salon, which was right outside her bedroom,

496
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 1: and she would Greek visitors with these erotic nudes hanging

497
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: all around her. Um. Yeah, she just was a whole

498
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 1: pile of contradictions her whole her whole life, because she,

499
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 1: on the one hand, did not seem super interested in, uh,

500
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: having relationships of a romantic sort with people. She you know,

501
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: she had a few, but they didn't really last. But

502
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: you know, then she's greeting visitors in a room with

503
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 1: hung with these erotic nude paintings. There there are some

504
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: fascinating juxtapositions. There are many. Do you have some listener

505
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 1: mail for us? I do? This was her mail is

506
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 1: from Liz. Lizz starts off describing difficulty that she had

507
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 1: leaving comments for us on our blog. So so I'm

508
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 1: sorry about that. UM. I do want to say the

509
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 1: best way to make sure we see something, if you

510
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: want to say something to us is to email us,

511
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 1: because basically every other method of talking to us has

512
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 1: the potential to be overlooked. Um yeah, not because we

513
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: don't care, but just because we get a lot of messages.

514
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 1: It's easy to do something in the shuffle. When you're

515
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 1: looking at you know, like fifty messages, sometimes your eye

516
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: skips over one inadvertently. We're yeah, well, and the like

517
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: the way Facebook threads comments that if you if you

518
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: want to make sure you see everything, you have to

519
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: meticulously go through it, and uh, a lot of times

520
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 1: will get a lot of Twitter replies on things and

521
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 1: we don't necessarily see them all and that it's really

522
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: hard to like find that again. Later emails much better. Um,

523
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: But onto her actual comment, I thought The Lady Julianna

524
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,040
Speaker 1: was an interesting episode, but I think your discussion of

525
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 1: quote wives on the ship was problematic. You mentioned that

526
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: some women used the situation to their advantage and consented.

527
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: This is not consent. The legal definition of consent states

528
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 1: that quotes consent assumes of physical power to act and

529
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 1: a reflective, determined, and unencumbered exertion of these powers. The

530
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 1: key point is that consent requires a real choice, which

531
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 1: these women did not have. These women were more or

532
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: less forced into being on a ship as punishment for

533
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: generally minor crimes, and were then faced with a choice

534
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: between poor treatment and possibly the risk of overtly violent

535
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: sexual assault or less poor treatment and latently violent sexual assault.

536
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: I say latent because all sexual assault involves violence, but

537
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: does not always involve the kind of physical beating that

538
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: we normally associate with the word violent. The wives made

539
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: a choice, but it was between forms of sexual violence

540
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: and subjugation. Under any definition, this coercion. This is coercion,

541
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: not consent. Maybe one or two of them would have

542
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 1: married the sailors if they freely on land, but I

543
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: doubt that the number is higher than that. I know

544
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 1: that listeners may not want to hear about situations that

545
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: are in fact cases of rape, but downplaying the nature

546
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: of sexual violence is extremely dangerous. The popular misunderstanding of

547
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: consent and rape was a large part of the reason

548
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: that one and for women are victims of severe forms

549
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: of sexual assault in our society today. I don't think

550
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 1: it was your intention to perpetuate this misunderstanding, as evidenced

551
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: by your clear skepticism of calling these women wives in

552
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: the first place. But I do think you can take

553
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 1: the kid gloves off and call a spade a spade,

554
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: say that some of these wives made the most of

555
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: a terrible situation but please please do not call this consent.

556
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: Use the opportunity to educate your listeners so that we

557
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 1: may eventually break this long history of sexual violence against women.

558
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: Thanks Liz Um. One of the difficult things about most

559
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: of the research for UH that episode coming from inter

560
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 1: library alone is that I can't go refer back to

561
00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: the book and re refresh my memory on why we

562
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: explained things the way that we did. But I do

563
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 1: remember the book having a pretty compelling and well thought

564
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 1: out explanation of why it was really important not to

565
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 1: paint every encounter that happened aboard the Lady Juliana as rape. UH.

566
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: If we were talking about a modern prison ship existing

567
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: today in which male guards were basically forcing women to

568
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 1: have sex with them in exchange for avoiding poor treatment,

569
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: I absolutely would not hesitate in calling that rape of

570
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 1: the time. But we were not talking about modern event.

571
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 1: We were talking about something that happened centuries ago, and

572
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 1: women at that point in time had vastly like a

573
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 1: vastly different base level of control over their own bodies

574
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: and their own decision making. And so if we use

575
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 1: that legal definition of rape to UH apply to hundreds

576
00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 1: of years in the past, basically every relation ship in

577
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 1: the past is rape, and I am I know there

578
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 1: are probably people who would make that argument. I am

579
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 1: not going to make that argument because I am not

580
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 1: willing to retroactively make every woman throughout history until about

581
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 1: into a rape victim. I think that minimizes and diminishes

582
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: the conversations about rape and consent that are happening today

583
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 1: and are extremely important today. UM. I'm also personally not

584
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,879
Speaker 1: willing to say that a woman who saw a situation

585
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 1: and took the first steps and made the first moves

586
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: to to work something to her advantage, I'm not really

587
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,760
Speaker 1: willing to call that person a rape victim. I'm also

588
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 1: not really willing to call the women who afterward UH

589
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,720
Speaker 1: had apparently loving marriages with men who had been sailors

590
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 1: on that ship. I'm not really willing to call them

591
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 1: rape victims either. I think it's yes extremely important to

592
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 1: talk about consent today and to talk about UH the

593
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 1: vastly different ways we in interpret consent now than we

594
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,799
Speaker 1: did hundreds of years ago. But I don't think we

595
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 1: can just say that everyone in the past was a victim.

596
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 1: That's not I don't think that serves history or the

597
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 1: present well. At all. So, uh yeah, context is kind

598
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 1: of always key in these and it's an issue that

599
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,359
Speaker 1: I know you are extremely thoughtful about. And this isn't

600
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 1: something you cavalierly decided that you know, you have studied

601
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 1: issues along these lines in school as well as an adult.

602
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 1: I know it's something you're very aware of and very

603
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: sensitive to you. So, I mean, I feel like your

604
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,320
Speaker 1: logic is extremely sound. It would be a huge revision

605
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 1: of history to look at it through that lens. Yeah,

606
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 1: that's uh, I mean definitely if we were talking about

607
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 1: a modern situation or you know, there are modern, modern

608
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 1: things that happened today that would not have been considered

609
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,919
Speaker 1: rape a hundred years ago and absolutely are considered rape now.

610
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,360
Speaker 1: And that doesn't make it okay that it happened a

611
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 1: hundred years ago or whatever. But you know, I am

612
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 1: just I'm not willing to to call a woman who

613
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: ultimately married someone who she loved a rape victim, uh,

614
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 1: because of nor like because of today's standards applied to

615
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 1: a situation that happened hundreds of years ago. So um,

616
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 1: I agree it is extremely important to educate people about

617
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 1: consent and educate people about rape and even talk about

618
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 1: things like that, uh, in the context of how these

619
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,360
Speaker 1: standards are different now and how much more agency women

620
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,320
Speaker 1: in many parts of the world, not all parts of

621
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 1: the world have over their bodies and over their sexual

622
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 1: decisions now than they did hundreds of years ago. But uh,

623
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 1: it's all of the evidence that I have points to

624
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 1: some of the women on the Lady Julianna were raped.

625
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 1: Some of the women on the Lady Julianna had consenting

626
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 1: sexual relationships people who they later married. So that is

627
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 1: where we will leave that. And it is sort of

628
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,360
Speaker 1: a good listener male pair up for Christina since she

629
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 1: also had some some you know, unusual for her time

630
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 1: kind of sexual context of her own. Yeah, a lot

631
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 1: of what was going on in Christina's life no one

632
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,240
Speaker 1: would bat an eye about today. No one would really

633
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 1: have I will say no one, Uh, no one in

634
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 1: in the culture that you and I are living in

635
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: would really think it a big deal, uh for women

636
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 1: to have pants on. But they're having pants on was

637
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:43,399
Speaker 1: an enormous issue when she lived. Um, I would say

638
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: there are maybe a very very few people in the

639
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 1: United States who are excessively concerned with whether women wear

640
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,720
Speaker 1: pants instead of dresses, But for the most part women

641
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 1: can wear pants is fine if you would like to

642
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: write to us where a history podcast but how stuffworks

643
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:00,879
Speaker 1: dot com. We're also on Facebook at Facebook dot com

644
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: slash missed in History and on Twitter at missed in History.

645
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 1: Are Tumbler is missed in History dot tumbler dot com,

646
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 1: and we're also on Pinterest penning things away at pinterest

647
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 1: dot com slash missed in History. We have a spreadshirt

648
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: store where you can buy shirts and phonecases and whatnot,

649
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: and that is at missed in History dot spreadshirt dot com.

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00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 1: You can come to our parents website, which is how

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00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:23,839
Speaker 1: stuff Works dot com. We do have some articles about

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00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 1: the history of Sweden and its geography and that sort

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Speaker 1: of thing. You can also come to our website, which

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00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 1: is missed in History dot com, and we have show

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00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 1: notes and occasionally blog posts about other stuff. We have

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00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 1: an archive of every single episode. You can do all

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00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 1: that and a whole lot more at how stuff works

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Speaker 1: dot com or missed in History dot com for more

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Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics because it how

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Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. Two