Speaker 1: Getting it in the hands of the greatest players in
Speaker 1: the world, that's the number one thing, that's the convincing part.
Speaker 1: And then when Lucas Glover, that's classic case in point,
Speaker 1: you know, wins back to back at possibly the most
Speaker 1: critical time of the year. So just so and off
Speaker 1: things go, so and more and more people will Zelatorus
Speaker 1: is playing great. He's just had twenty two puts today
Speaker 1: in the third round of the Genesis Invitational at Riviera,
Speaker 1: which is arguably possibly some of the toughest greens to
Speaker 1: put on with the poe of their pure but tricky breaking.
Speaker 1: I think he'll hold over well. The footage of puts
Speaker 1: was crazy, and really at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: winning all comes down to putting, basical at the end
Speaker 1: of the day. So I'm just waiting for Scotti Scheffler
Speaker 1: to get one in his hands and the world, the
Speaker 1: world will be a better place for him.
Speaker 2: Put another log on all the five.
Speaker 1: Nobody here is given time.
Speaker 3: Welcome to the fire pit with Matt Chanella. Here we
Speaker 3: go part five of this story about how and why
Speaker 3: lab Golf has stormed the gates of the old guards
Speaker 3: of putting and the technology in putters. From Bill Pressey's
Speaker 3: issues with his putter in twenty twelve.
Speaker 4: LAB was ultimately started as a as a desperate attempt
Speaker 4: to fix my own yips, because I had the yips
Speaker 4: really bad, like I was shaking, like the putter when
Speaker 4: I took it back, maybe rotated in thirty three different
Speaker 4: directions by different degrees.
Speaker 1: It is, just.
Speaker 5: Couldn't stop it.
Speaker 3: To Press's garage where he invents his revealer and ultimately
Speaker 3: the original directed force putter, which he sold at the
Speaker 3: trunk of his car. People like Matt Holme and Stuart
Speaker 3: Smith had a big impact on the boutique business. Then
Speaker 3: along comes Sam Han.
Speaker 6: They were about to close the doors, and I'd ask
Speaker 6: Bill to put me in touch with the guys that
Speaker 6: he was partnered with, worked out a deal with them. Me,
Speaker 6: my dad, and my brother all put everything together and
Speaker 6: bought out Bill's existing partners. And that's how the whole thing,
Speaker 6: that's how LAB started. So then at that point, so
Speaker 6: that was late twenty seventeen, I think we were officially,
Speaker 6: you know, business married in early twenty eighteen, and we
Speaker 6: were off to the races.
Speaker 3: Through some hustle and sweat marketing. Han gets putters in
Speaker 3: the bags of Jeff Sluman, von Taylor, people like Kelly Slater,
Speaker 3: the eleven time world champion of surfing and scratch golfer,
Speaker 3: founded on his own but was influencing others.
Speaker 7: I've just spoken about the club to anyone and anyone
Speaker 7: who wants to listen, and generally I'll just play with
Speaker 7: people and they'll see me roll the ball and it
Speaker 7: just rolls so pure off the club that they can't
Speaker 7: help but ask about it.
Speaker 3: So Leader's friendship with Adam Scott leads to Scott not
Speaker 3: only trying one, he made it his gamer.
Speaker 2: There's a fabulous stuff going on with the lab from
Speaker 2: the grip to the head, other angles in between, and
Speaker 2: being so non traditional it raised his eyebrows for sure.
Speaker 2: But I just had this sense like this, you know,
Speaker 2: if you can embrace what this potter does and stay
Speaker 2: out of your own way, the results could come. And
Speaker 2: I just had this feeling and I said it to Sam,
Speaker 2: although it didn't pan out, but like, this was the
Speaker 2: potter that can win around Augusta.
Speaker 3: We ended Part four with independent validation from Adam Beach
Speaker 3: of My Golf Spy.
Speaker 8: I think it's unfortunate, you know, golfers aren't as willing
Speaker 8: to try unconventional things. But if more golfers were willing
Speaker 8: to try this unconventional putter, I'm very confident that more
Speaker 8: golfers would sink more cuts.
Speaker 3: So you're caught up again. Lab Golf is rolling literally
Speaker 3: and figuratively, and we're building to the Lucas Glover story,
Speaker 3: which will include insight and thoughtful reflections from Glover, plus
Speaker 3: his agent, one of his best friends, a Navy seal,
Speaker 3: the Lab Tour Rep. Han Pressey, and a few more.
Speaker 3: But before the back to back wins in August of
Speaker 3: twenty twenty three, we're going back to twenty eighteen to
Speaker 3: a hitch in Lab Golf's giddeup to a time in
Speaker 3: the company's history in which they received pushback from an
Speaker 3: Australian short game guru, a journeyman who's widely respected for
Speaker 3: his articulate takes on chipping and putting and in this case,
Speaker 3: for questioning labs lie angle and balance. Here's Sam Hahn again,
Speaker 3: the CEO of Lab Golf.
Speaker 6: You're Brett Rumford. Yeah, Robbie, Yeah, there's a fucking legend,
Speaker 6: absolutely the.
Speaker 3: Guy and how does he fit in.
Speaker 6: Bits in twice? This is great, so very early on
Speaker 6: he gets it. So he's a thinker. So he's always
Speaker 6: been an extraordinarily competent putter. But what's different about him
Speaker 6: than like a Brad Faxon is that like Brett's like,
Speaker 6: I'm gonna put well because I know how a putter
Speaker 6: needs to move, so I'm happy to try anything because
Speaker 6: I can make the putter move how it needs to move.
Speaker 6: So he was always tinkering and always trying. He was
Speaker 6: actually one of the first guys to be super competent
Speaker 6: with a broomstick, despite the fact that, again he was
Speaker 6: already a very competent putter. And so he emails us
Speaker 6: very early on, maybe twenty eighteen, because there was there.
Speaker 6: We had a weird little presence in Australia because Bill's
Speaker 6: dad is actually Australian, so we had some putters over there.
Speaker 6: Runny got a hold of one there and he emails
Speaker 6: us and kind of gives us some feedback, and he's like,
Speaker 6: you know, I get what you guys are trying to do,
Speaker 6: but the way that this thing sets up is fucked,
Speaker 6: And I'm like, well, what do you mean. He's like,
Speaker 6: it doesn't sold properly because if I put your press
Speaker 6: grip you know, I don't know if you've seen him enough.
Speaker 6: Like the crooked grip we got on the putters there,
Speaker 6: if I actually put that thing to neutral, the face
Speaker 6: opens up. And at this point, I mean, this is
Speaker 6: this is like literally year one of my education and
Speaker 6: the whole putting role, and I'm like, I have no
Speaker 6: idea what you're talking about.
Speaker 3: Brett Rumford of Perth, Australia plays on the PGA Tour
Speaker 3: of Australasia. He won the nineteen ninety eight Australian Amateur
Speaker 3: and he won the nineteen ninety nine PGA Tour of
Speaker 3: Australasia's an Z Players Championship. As an amateur after turning
Speaker 3: pro in two thousand, he has won six European Tour events.
Speaker 3: He played twenty six events on the PGA Tour in
Speaker 3: two thousand and eight, where he made ten cuts and
Speaker 3: had one top ten at the Bob Hope Chrysler Classic.
Speaker 3: His best finish in a major was a T sixteen
Speaker 3: at the two thousand and six Open Championship at Royal Liverpool,
Speaker 3: which was won by Tiger Woods. When's the first time
Speaker 3: you remember seeing or hearing about or holding it or like,
Speaker 3: what when did directed force or Lab golf show up
Speaker 3: on your radar.
Speaker 1: I think I might have been. I was in Europe,
Speaker 1: just traveling around, but there was a facility where we
Speaker 1: played in Denmark, which was amazing. But there's a gentleman
Speaker 1: there that actually had a proper putting lab started the art,
Speaker 1: had all the equipment. So that was the first time
Speaker 1: actually had seen the lab potters. So they which was
Speaker 1: the original Direct Force, which is a real big head,
Speaker 1: a little bit obscure, looking really random, but had all
Speaker 1: the tech in it, crazy stable at the full, you know,
Speaker 1: all the tech. So that was the first time I'd
Speaker 1: seen it. And then from that meeting, the guy offered
Speaker 1: me actually to take a few homes, so I took
Speaker 1: a few home with varying lengths and lives. But this
Speaker 1: is where I sort of saw the discrepancy with the
Speaker 1: product in which they fixed subsequently, and they're doing a
Speaker 1: great job with it. The thing with it is that
Speaker 1: with the direct Force when they first came out, because
Speaker 1: of that varyingly angle and length, that would change the
Speaker 1: fixed point of where the radius would sit at the
Speaker 1: end of the golf club. So what I found was
Speaker 1: the wall the putter would still have the same effect
Speaker 1: so it could sit more or less open or closed.
Speaker 1: And I kind of just gave this feedback to one
Speaker 1: of the guys at the facility, which I think got
Speaker 1: back to LAB and they kind of blew up and said,
Speaker 1: you know, the product you know was great and everything else,
Speaker 1: and it was just my feedback. Anyways, that was my
Speaker 1: first introduction to LAB.
Speaker 6: We go back and forth, and like I knew it
Speaker 6: was a tour pro, but he was being a super
Speaker 6: pain in the ass and just like relentlessly telling us
Speaker 6: how stupid we are. The interaction actually ended in him
Speaker 6: telling me to fuck off.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you said it to them or
Speaker 3: they Sam said it to you or whatever. It was
Speaker 3: like a fuck off, you know. It was like, you know,
Speaker 3: your feedback kind of devastated. It was kind of devastating
Speaker 3: to him because he was like, wait a minute, you
Speaker 3: know this guy's he's undermining our whole this is our
Speaker 3: whole company. Yeah, of a sudden, you know you're coming
Speaker 3: in and it was like that's what he said. Now
Speaker 3: was that him to you or you to him? What
Speaker 3: was there?
Speaker 1: Yeah? No, no, no, I was very look, hey, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm one for It's really weird because I'm so far
Speaker 1: as practice concerned. I don't know why, but I can
Speaker 1: see things within within product that might be you know,
Speaker 1: maybe not thought of or misaligned or otherwise anyway. For
Speaker 1: some reason, I just think of these things, and when
Speaker 1: I put it down, I'm very much probably was right
Speaker 1: in my I guess forte, you know, because with my
Speaker 1: mirror putting and everything else, I really got to make
Speaker 1: sure my nineties are all all good and well. But
Speaker 1: I just noticed some was wrong with this butter. I
Speaker 1: took some photos and I sent it back to the
Speaker 1: gentleman at this at this facility, and then obviously he
Speaker 1: made the email and made contact with Sam, which then
Speaker 1: subsequently told me to fuck off and went like nuts
Speaker 1: nuts nuts. So two days later I got the feedback
Speaker 1: and I went, okay, no, what I said, Look, it's
Speaker 1: only my feedback, but look, you know what, yeah, if
Speaker 1: there's and I'm look, I'm not saying with I'm not
Speaker 1: saying that I'm smart. I'm just saying, hey, look this
Speaker 1: is what I see, and yeah, there's there's people in
Speaker 1: that facility that are like crazy smart, crazy smart. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so but it is what it is. So but that
Speaker 1: I don't have the I don't have the smarts to
Speaker 1: work out how to fix it. That was their job,
Speaker 1: and it's just great that that they've got on board
Speaker 1: with it.
Speaker 3: Worse noting and as it relates to dates, my original
Speaker 3: interview with Han was in August of twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1: About.
Speaker 6: Six about six months ago. He reaches out again and
Speaker 6: he's like, I've been using your mes one for you know,
Speaker 6: however long things Absolutely brilliant. You fix the issue that
Speaker 6: I was talking about, which I still kind of don't understand.
Speaker 6: I mean I do I actually that's a lie. When
Speaker 6: he reached out about the MEZ, I still didn't understand it.
Speaker 6: I've since gotten some FaceTime with him and I totally
Speaker 6: get it now and he's spot on correct. But what
Speaker 6: was so cool about Brett was is that he went
Speaker 6: through that whole thing that I did. He went through
Speaker 6: that that that hangover period, and he stuck with it
Speaker 6: because he knew there was something there. And so he
Speaker 6: was here in June, came to the factory in June,
Speaker 6: spent a couple of days here blowing all of our
Speaker 6: minds and listening to Brett, you know, who's a very
Speaker 6: well respected short game nerd. You know, I mean people
Speaker 6: who know about putting. No Brett Rumfort and he uh,
Speaker 6: he's telling me in his words, my whole stick, he's
Speaker 6: telling you know, his the way that he puts it,
Speaker 6: you know, like my tagline is like, you know you've
Speaker 6: in the past you have to keep a face square,
Speaker 6: and with us, all you have to do is let
Speaker 6: a face stay square. And his whole thing is you
Speaker 6: have to let go of control to gain control. That's
Speaker 6: how how he describes, you know, what the what the
Speaker 6: feeling is.
Speaker 1: I think for me, I think the real light bulb
Speaker 1: moment was like I've always thought the the technology in
Speaker 1: the putter was was fantastic, Like I'm all on board
Speaker 1: with it, and it truly is in terms of all
Speaker 1: the stuff that's out there. It is definitely, you know,
Speaker 1: cutting edge, and it is probably the only technology in
Speaker 1: terms of what it is that actually is is different
Speaker 1: to the rest. You know, it's it's literally zero talk
Speaker 1: in every sense of the word. So when I was
Speaker 1: playing not Yourself, I've been playing sort of like very
Speaker 1: sparsely these days, doing a lot of coaching as well.
Speaker 1: But we had a local tournament here thirty six goals
Speaker 1: but still winnings, winning isn't it. You know, you're still
Speaker 1: going to go through the same process as you're still
Speaker 1: you know, you're still competing at a high level with
Speaker 1: the local professionals here. But I got into a playoff
Speaker 1: and hold a great put on seventeen and the rest.
Speaker 1: But obviously with that heightened sense of adrenaline emotion, everything
Speaker 1: else that starts to come out. Your senses get really
Speaker 1: really alive. You know, they just buzz, They're just everything
Speaker 1: that should feel, cease, smell, tusks, just everything is just
Speaker 1: is alive. Right, it's alert. You're very aware of your
Speaker 1: surroundings internally externally. But I had a thirty footer down
Speaker 1: the hill, double breaker, crazy. It was a new green
Speaker 1: Graham Marsh design. So for those that know Graham Marsh
Speaker 1: is eight greens are always a little bit indifferent. They're
Speaker 1: pretty funky tears ridges all over the place, but that's
Speaker 1: his thing. So I had a really tricky part. But
Speaker 1: all you can do in these situations is just try
Speaker 1: and hit the best possible part you can. That's all
Speaker 1: you're hoping for, and then you just basically let you
Speaker 1: know what the golf and gods do the rest. But
Speaker 1: when I stood over this thing. When I stood over
Speaker 1: the part and I pulled the truth. As soon as
Speaker 1: I took it away, there was just nothing within my hands.
Speaker 1: It was just nothing. It was empty. And then when
Speaker 1: I made the transition, it was still empty and there
Speaker 1: was just there was no tension, there was no there
Speaker 1: was no fight, there was no grab, there was nothing.
Speaker 1: It kind of the part of just it just fell.
Speaker 1: And as soon as I struck the part, all I
Speaker 1: can remember was when I hit it, I just went,
Speaker 1: my god, that was the best part I think I've
Speaker 1: ever hit. But I think it was more the sense
Speaker 1: of the feeling, my heightened sense of emotion that really
Speaker 1: enacted me to this stroking this put But it was
Speaker 1: just amazing in that situation where normally you might feel
Speaker 1: a little bit of the tension or a little bit
Speaker 1: of the grab or a little bit of that after
Speaker 1: the hit, you feel like that little bit of the
Speaker 1: acceleration or that I wouldn't use the word apprehension, but
Speaker 1: it's just it is what it is. It's just nerves
Speaker 1: and the rest. But this thing just flowed and it
Speaker 1: just went it off of my hands and I just
Speaker 1: looked up and I just went, Wow, that's got to
Speaker 1: be the purest part I think I've ever hit subsequently
Speaker 1: subsequently it went in. But irrespective of that, I just find,
Speaker 1: I mean that that feeling and memory will last with
Speaker 1: me for a long while, because I'd say to Sam,
Speaker 1: if I had have had this technology, maybe when I
Speaker 1: first turned pro, who knows how many order one, maybe
Speaker 1: with the broomstick, a part of very well with the broomstick.
Speaker 1: But yeah, look, it's just it's quite amazing technology. It's
Speaker 1: pretty cool and you just got to experience it, but
Speaker 1: you sort of you have to give it some time too,
Speaker 1: because so many people don't like the feeling of no control,
Speaker 1: that don't like the feeling of like giving up that
Speaker 1: feeling of where the face is or the awareness of it.
Speaker 1: And it's just I love the internal feeling where everything
Speaker 1: this switches off through here rather than trying to feel
Speaker 1: this tension, I just love the flow of it. And
Speaker 1: you get into the flow after a while, but it
Speaker 1: takes time, and.
Speaker 6: A lot of the high level pros the feedback we
Speaker 6: get is they describe this very kind of vague feeling,
Speaker 6: you know, in along kind of similar to what we
Speaker 6: talked about before about it, you know, just kind of
Speaker 6: how the potter head disappears. That's a good thing. That's
Speaker 6: when you know you're doing it right. When it kind
Speaker 6: of feels vague and free, that's when you know the
Speaker 6: putter's face is squared up to the plane that you're
Speaker 6: putting it on. It's when you start feeling resistance. That's
Speaker 6: when you know you're off.
Speaker 1: I find if you want more or less face rotation,
Speaker 1: I would go more lying. So if you go sixty
Speaker 1: eight to seventy two degree lying l and you're swinging
Speaker 1: face to path, your appearance would be your face is
Speaker 1: opening more or less, but it's still face to path.
Speaker 1: So but if you want the visual of having more
Speaker 1: or less face rotation, go flatter with your langel If
Speaker 1: you want less, go more upright. So that's why I
Speaker 1: went to a broomstick for all those years from four
Speaker 1: right the way through to when it was banned. It
Speaker 1: was cheating. It wasn't It wasn't cheating, but technically speaking,
Speaker 1: it was like cheating. So and I just found that
Speaker 1: was you know, I maxed out at eighty degrees pretty much,
Speaker 1: which was legal at the time, still is legal today.
Speaker 1: And Adam Scott still I mean, he's Scotty's sister genius. Anyway,
Speaker 1: he's a kid, is so switched on and he's basically
Speaker 1: now just swinging this sting with minimal face rotation relative
Speaker 1: to his path, so there's less to try and do,
Speaker 1: there's less to try and square up. So yeah, so
Speaker 1: you start going lower. That's a lot of face rotation
Speaker 1: unless you're doing it mechanically, and like Tiger probably would
Speaker 1: open it more and close it more with his risk mechanics,
Speaker 1: which probably not advisable. When you look at his putting
Speaker 1: stroke on sam put Lab, it's not efficient at all.
Speaker 1: It's not green at all, apart from the one aspect,
Speaker 1: which is consistency. Is consistency is off the charts, but
Speaker 1: every other paramet is a little bit ordinary. So maybe
Speaker 1: you wouldn't copy it in an ideal world, but there's
Speaker 1: always an exception to the rule. So yeah, So for me,
Speaker 1: that whole face rotation concept is a little bit I
Speaker 1: think misleading, And for me, it's it's all about with
Speaker 1: the lab product, it's all about For me, it's like
Speaker 1: giving up control to take control. And I think so
Speaker 1: many people, you know, whether it's a personality or otherwise,
Speaker 1: try to you know, control the face, control the stroke,
Speaker 1: and they get so caught up in the stroke and
Speaker 1: the plan and everything else, which is all good and world.
Speaker 1: You do your work, but and you know, the holy
Speaker 1: grail is having it perfectly arked and have your face
Speaker 1: to path and all the rest of it. But there's
Speaker 1: got to be a point where you just got to
Speaker 1: go play, and you just got to go You just
Speaker 1: got to get just give up all the controlling element.
Speaker 1: You just got to just let it go.
Speaker 3: The Revealer itself. Have you ever tinkered with the Revealer?
Speaker 3: Have been on the Revealer?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 1: The Revealer is amazing. Huh. The thing, the crazy thing
Speaker 1: with with the Revealer is that other product which has
Speaker 1: similar tech with the you know you call it toe
Speaker 1: up or face target balanced, or however you want to
Speaker 1: refer to the lab face remaining vertical. You put in
Speaker 1: the Revealer, and they don't test well at all the
Speaker 1: same as any other potter. They get really loose and
Speaker 1: out of balance. So love is the only potter. Is
Speaker 1: What I mean is that it's it's like it's cutting edge.
Speaker 1: It's there's nothing else like it on the planet. That
Speaker 1: Revealer is is really you know, when you when you
Speaker 1: speak to people about it about its technology and what
Speaker 1: it does and how it how it will feel. But
Speaker 1: then we actually put it in it and start doing
Speaker 1: figure eights, that's crazy. Actually hitting puts with it, that's crazy.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's a pretty cool apparatus. Yeah, and I
Speaker 1: think there needs to be more of that in pro
Speaker 1: shops as well. They need to send more of that
Speaker 1: that product out the revealer to give people a better
Speaker 1: understanding and the insight as to what the technology is
Speaker 1: all about.
Speaker 3: Do you think it's fair to say that Bill Pressey
Speaker 3: will go down in golf history someday as as revolutionary
Speaker 3: a genius.
Speaker 1: I think yeah, I think he should already be at
Speaker 1: that point anyway, just for coming up with the concept.
Speaker 1: You know, it's an amazing concept, which and again it's
Speaker 1: been refined, but not even refined. It's the same technology.
Speaker 1: But I think anyone like you never stopped learning as
Speaker 1: well at the same time, So the genius that is
Speaker 1: Bill Pressy and the concept in which he's come up
Speaker 1: with it's been refined. But I think, you know, in
Speaker 1: saying that, maybe it's taken someone like Sam to sort of, hey,
Speaker 1: like you know what, let's not this out. It takes
Speaker 1: other other perspectives sometimes to make you know, the goal
Speaker 1: of the dream work. And I think it's just like
Speaker 1: anything in time. You know, there's you know, with successful
Speaker 1: people whatever it may be, and times that have altered
Speaker 1: the course of history as being in the right place
Speaker 1: at the right time. So you know, it just needed
Speaker 1: someone like Sam with his you know, broadened arise and
Speaker 1: a bit more holistic, a bit more you know, inclusive,
Speaker 1: to maybe just change Bill Presley's thinking. Who knows, with
Speaker 1: the conversations that have gone by, and it's always a
Speaker 1: case of, you know, even with Scottie Camera with with
Speaker 1: Tiger like, you can't you can't replicate the history of
Speaker 1: getting a partter in one man's hand in setting the
Speaker 1: record books, you know. Alt. I mean, that's just the
Speaker 1: right place at the right time. But still he had
Speaker 1: the knowledge, he had the expertise, he had the product,
Speaker 1: and it's just the case of just you know what,
Speaker 1: you've got to be ready for it as well. So
Speaker 1: I guess the world just isn't quite ready, but they're becoming,
Speaker 1: they're becoming aware of it. And I think, and I
Speaker 1: said to stand a long long time ago where his
Speaker 1: product was, Yeah, it was right on that edge, wasn't it.
Speaker 1: So it's just it was close, but just wasn't quite
Speaker 1: cracking it. And I said, mate, you've got to be
Speaker 1: ready when this thing goes. You've got to be ready.
Speaker 1: You've got to have some product lined up, and you
Speaker 1: better be ready because when this thing goes and the
Speaker 1: technology gets you know, it gets out there and people
Speaker 1: start to get their head around it, you've got to
Speaker 1: be ready to be to capitalize on it. And that's
Speaker 1: the thing is that how many units do you you know,
Speaker 1: do you trust in it? You got the trust there,
Speaker 1: you know, you know that it's a sound product. You
Speaker 1: know it's amazing. You know, you just got to you
Speaker 1: just got to win the people over. But and as
Speaker 1: I said, you know, getting it in the hands of
Speaker 1: the greatest players in the world, that's the number one thing.
Speaker 1: That's the convincing part. And then when Lucas Glover, that's
Speaker 1: classic case in point, you know, wins back to back
Speaker 1: that possibly the most critical time of the year. So
Speaker 1: just so and off things go so and more and
Speaker 1: more people will Zelatorus is playing great. He's just had
Speaker 1: twenty two puts today in the third round of the
Speaker 1: Genesis Invitational at Riviera, which is arguably possibly some of
Speaker 1: the toughest screens to put on. With the poet their
Speaker 1: pure but tricky breaking, I think you'll hold over well.
Speaker 1: The footage of parts was crazy, and really, at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, winning all comes down to putting,
Speaker 1: basically at the end of the day. So I'm just
Speaker 1: waiting for Scotti Scheffler to get one in his hands
Speaker 1: and the world, the world will be a better place
Speaker 1: for him.
Speaker 3: On that note, I asked Rumford to talk more about
Speaker 3: the concept of letting go of control to gain control.
Speaker 3: You can say that about a golf swing. You can
Speaker 3: say that about life in general, right, but I mean
Speaker 3: it certainly as it relates to this technology.
Speaker 6: Yes, that is the essence of it.
Speaker 1: Look and not is zero understanding of the internals in
Speaker 1: a golf swing and a chip shot. So when I
Speaker 1: chip people of trans you know they're almost transfixed by
Speaker 1: mesmerized by my low so to speak. But mastery comes
Speaker 1: down to mastering the movement and then everything switches off,
Speaker 1: so everything deactivates. So when you walk, you've mastered the
Speaker 1: art of walking. Yes, So if I were to ask
Speaker 1: you what you activate in your legs when you walk, truthfully,
Speaker 1: just walk, anyone, just get it. Out of your couch,
Speaker 1: whoever's listening to this right now, and just walk and
Speaker 1: walk a little bit faster when I say that, and
Speaker 1: walk a little bit faster again, and tell me what's
Speaker 1: being activated. You couldn't tell me. You wouldn't know. So
Speaker 1: unless you're actually standing there and actually physically activating your quads,
Speaker 1: activating your hip flexes. That's where most people live. When
Speaker 1: they chip, they literally they try and create a force.
Speaker 1: They're trying to control the golf club, but which is
Speaker 1: partly to do with the balance of the golf club.
Speaker 1: So if you're in balance with chip in and I'd
Speaker 1: rather find the balance of the golf club not so much. Plain,
Speaker 1: we won't go down that rabbit hole. So but for me,
Speaker 1: when I'm swinging, I couldn't tell you what I activate.
Speaker 1: I can tell you where the golf club's traveling. I
Speaker 1: could tell you what I'm doing, my orientation of lower
Speaker 1: body and everything else the parts that I'm moving, But
Speaker 1: I couldn't tell you, like walking, what I'm actually physically activating.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't know. But that's that mastery of movement when
Speaker 1: you're putting, that's what I feel that lab gives you. Anyway,
Speaker 1: it just gives you that freedom of understanding what flows
Speaker 1: all about, what that feeling of like giving up control
Speaker 1: to take control. You don't control your legs when you walk,
Speaker 1: You just walk, so and that's kind of like it's
Speaker 1: a stupid analogy, but it's it's the only one I
Speaker 1: can give you. And what's crazy about it in this
Speaker 1: world is that everyone's signs with a putto contract. I
Speaker 1: just that's the one thing when you talk about controlling
Speaker 1: of all things, controlling the one club in your bag
Speaker 1: that should be a free agent to do what you
Speaker 1: want to the people out there listening and the juniors
Speaker 1: coming through, don't so with a putter. Just use the
Speaker 1: best product out there. Sign with third end clubs because
Speaker 1: of the putter. As I say to my kids and
Speaker 1: my juniors coming through, is that if you want to
Speaker 1: buy that one hundred million dollar yacht, three hundred million
Speaker 1: dollar yacht, if you want to go give millions to charity,
Speaker 1: if you want houses all over the world's holiday destinations,
Speaker 1: if you want to change the world in some way,
Speaker 1: if you want to run for president one day eventually
Speaker 1: with your influence in the game of golf. And that's
Speaker 1: whole a part because Putting is the key to all
Speaker 1: your heart's desires. That's the only club that's going to
Speaker 1: basically give you all the success, all the records, all
Speaker 1: the majors, everything else. One man did this for well,
Speaker 1: two men have done it, actually, Nicholas and Tiger. You know,
Speaker 1: people will say, if your life depends on it, who
Speaker 1: are the two guys or one guy that's going to be,
Speaker 1: you know, holding that part if your life depends on it,
Speaker 1: and it's going to be Jack or Tiger. The two
Speaker 1: people that basically have re written the record books over
Speaker 1: two generations are the two people that basically just whole
Speaker 1: puts for fun. So my advice would be to those
Speaker 1: up and comers out there, or even for any of
Speaker 1: these guys that are out there now. Adam Scott he
Speaker 1: tore up his titles contract basically for other reasons, I'm
Speaker 1: sure probably, but you know what, it's freed him up
Speaker 1: with the one with the one thing, with the one
Speaker 1: part of the game that basically has always struggled with,
Speaker 1: you know, putting, And you look at his Adam Scott's
Speaker 1: putting stats unbelievable. I think he led maybe a couple
Speaker 1: of categories. And I've always said you look at any
Speaker 1: stat you get inside the top thirty of the world's
Speaker 1: best players on any tour. If you're inside that top
Speaker 1: thirty on any stat then you're elite. Top thirty is elite.
Speaker 1: So cracking twenty seventh you see twenty seventh on a
Speaker 1: stat or twenty fourth, not even number one, very very
Speaker 1: fine line between thirtieth and first, but you get thirtieth,
Speaker 1: top thirtieth on any start, you're doing something very very well.
Speaker 1: But so Scotty and all these guys you know that
Speaker 1: have that part of that's freed up for them, free
Speaker 1: up your contract, to free up your your putting. You
Speaker 1: just might fulfill all your heart's desires. But I'm not
Speaker 1: saying it's going to go like that. But hey, yeah,
Speaker 1: I just find it crazy how people are locked in
Speaker 1: with the parts and you know the complaint of the
Speaker 1: car part, but they're stuck in this this contract I
Speaker 1: just don't like the part of. But and you go, well,
Speaker 1: that's what winning is all about. If you want to
Speaker 1: be auted for winning, use something that's going to win, right,
Speaker 1: Or if you just want to make top thirty make
Speaker 1: a living, then yeah, sign a contract and just you know,
Speaker 1: just hate yourself for the rest of your life. It's ridiculous.
Speaker 1: It's just the most stupid thing I think I could
Speaker 1: you could. In my experience, it's most, yes, most for anything.
Speaker 1: And that's the blessing with with Titleist was the fact
Speaker 1: that I could use whatever I wanted throughout my career.
Speaker 1: So I've got thirteen clubs. The drive is definitely a
Speaker 1: have to use it d either, that's a non negotiable
Speaker 1: there in the contract. But I think Titleist, Yeah, trust
Speaker 1: in the product. You want to use the product, you can,
Speaker 1: but if not, use something else. So that's my two cents.
Speaker 3: Anyway, I went back through Adam Scott's putting stats in
Speaker 3: twenty seventeen twenty eighteen, before he started using lab putters,
Speaker 3: he was one hundred and sixty fifth in strokes gained
Speaker 3: putting and one hundred and seventy fifth in putting average.
Speaker 3: In twenty eighteen twenty nineteen, which is when he made
Speaker 3: the switch, he jumped to thirty first in strokes gain
Speaker 3: putting and was forty third in putting average in twenty
Speaker 3: nineteen twenty twenty. He was forty ninth and forty fourth, respectively.
Speaker 3: In twenty twenty twenty twenty one, he was eighteenth and
Speaker 3: fortieth in twenty twenty one. In twenty twenty two, he
Speaker 3: was forty first and thirty fourth. In twenty twenty two
Speaker 3: and twenty twenty three he was nineteenth and ninth. And
Speaker 3: this year and it's early, he's fiftieth and thirty third.
Speaker 3: He's on his sixth street year of using a lab
Speaker 3: putter and the sixth consecutive year of never being outside
Speaker 3: the top fifty and two critical putting stats. Have you
Speaker 3: ever had a conversation with Adam or Lucas about labs,
Speaker 3: specifically with Scotty.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, Look, Scotty and I we're very much on
Speaker 1: the same page. So yeah, that conversation is just like
Speaker 1: speaking to me in a mirror, right from where it goes.
Speaker 1: So I used the broomstick a long long time ago
Speaker 1: and then he switched to the broomstick. You know, I
Speaker 1: talked about how I used it and stuff, and he's like,
Speaker 1: you know, the same thing. So Scott is very astute.
Speaker 1: So yeah, he thinks about the game, Scotty, you know
Speaker 1: as much as you don't. You know, you think he's
Speaker 1: very very technically sound, which he is probably doesn't think
Speaker 1: too much about the golf swing, but he does about
Speaker 1: other areas of the game. So I spent some time
Speaker 1: with it with the PGA. We've got on the chip
Speaker 1: and green. I'm filling his brains with all these you know,
Speaker 1: my thoughts and feels. And we spent about two hours
Speaker 1: there is back in maybe eighteen twenty eighteen. I'd cool
Speaker 1: them and we go to the driving range and we're
Speaker 1: hitting a few balls next to each other. We're just
Speaker 1: talking about, you know, stuff as mates do. And I
Speaker 1: just asked him about he's ripping these drives down. It
Speaker 1: like just just flat plane, just frozen rowe one half
Speaker 1: of the other, like twenty thirty in a row. And
Speaker 1: I've always like struggled with driving, you know, so he's
Speaker 1: struggled with chipping a little bit. But I'm getting very
Speaker 1: technical and everything else with the short game and telling how,
Speaker 1: you know, how I changed things to manipulate flights and stuff.
Speaker 1: And then you know, what do you do with the
Speaker 1: driver Scotty, Well, you know, Rabbie is what I thought.
Speaker 1: You know what, here we go. I'm going to get
Speaker 1: the I'm going to get the holy Grail of secrets
Speaker 1: here and I'm on it right So Scotty starts talking about, well,
Speaker 1: what I do. I mean, I get my nineties, so
Speaker 1: I get my grip right, and then I just really
Speaker 1: ensure that nine degrees to my target. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: all squared off because he is it so straight. It's
Speaker 1: very very important if you get it very straight and
Speaker 1: very repetitive something. And yeah, that makes sense, and he
Speaker 1: goes the first poot. You know, I'm just trying to
Speaker 1: feel as out the face just like remains fairly square
Speaker 1: to the golf ball, like it's just like looking at it.
Speaker 1: And then after that, I don't know. I can't tell
Speaker 1: you what I do, and I just gon't. You're gonna
Speaker 1: be kidding me. If you've got to give me more
Speaker 1: than that, Scotty, give me something, It's like, nah, just
Speaker 1: get my nineties, keep the face square. This is all
Speaker 1: I know is that, you know, from this point here,
Speaker 1: like I'm very very very aware of this point. Beyond that,
Speaker 1: all I know is that I've just got the most
Speaker 1: videoed and photographed golf swing probably in the game. But
Speaker 1: what I do you're from me? I was devastated. I
Speaker 1: was like, oh no, that's not going to work for me.
Speaker 1: So oh man, in terms of putting though, he's very
Speaker 1: very that's kind of like where it flips, you know's
Speaker 1: goal swing. He's got that, you know, locked away, and
Speaker 1: then when he gets degree, you know, he's I've always
Speaker 1: found that he's he's used part is too heavy, so
Speaker 1: with the lab and particularly the long one as well.
Speaker 1: You know, you get on greens like Augusta and you
Speaker 1: get a part of that's really really heavy. But he
Speaker 1: kind of like liked that. But that's why Scotty has
Speaker 1: had that really long short stroke kind of thing at
Speaker 1: the masses where it's like like reversing a train and
Speaker 1: then trying to put it forward. It's like, oh shit,
Speaker 1: it takes some time, right, So you kind of like
Speaker 1: want to have a bit more of that, you know
Speaker 1: that that faster beats for a minute, should I say,
Speaker 1: but maintain the same ratio. So, but the other thing
Speaker 1: I've ever said to Scotty was this, man, you need
Speaker 1: to lighten up this head, just line up the whole thing,
Speaker 1: because it's the broomsticks all good and well, but still
Speaker 1: you just want to try and create a bit more
Speaker 1: more flow with a bit more speed and have that
Speaker 1: dynamic of stroke sort of match backstroke to follow through.
Speaker 1: But that's the only thing I've ever said to Scotty
Speaker 1: in terms of parting and the rest is you don't
Speaker 1: say too much to Scotty really, so he's a yeah,
Speaker 1: he's a world clock.
Speaker 3: Back to Adam Scott, who if You're not caught up,
Speaker 3: was prominent part four of this series. Brett Rumford, who
Speaker 3: I'm sure sure you know he he pushed back on
Speaker 3: Sam and the technology originally sort of tried it and said,
Speaker 3: you know that he had some issues with this going back,
Speaker 3: you know, early days, and then eventually came back as
Speaker 3: they continued to tweak what they were doing. He came
Speaker 3: back in and said, you know what, and now I
Speaker 3: get it. I'm I'm all in. I've I've bought it,
Speaker 3: almost like independently, was having his own kind of relationship
Speaker 3: with the putter of the technology, the feel and he
Speaker 3: said something to them, which is I finally get it.
Speaker 3: You've got to let go of control to gain control.
Speaker 3: Does that ring true to you? Is that something that
Speaker 3: makes sense to you?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I think absolutely it does. I think, you know, I
Speaker 2: try and do that with my entire game. But we're
Speaker 2: we're so professional in a senseue we think of everything
Speaker 2: all the time, we're trying to be so good at
Speaker 2: every little part of it, and when it comes to
Speaker 2: performing and shooting the lower score, you know, you want
Speaker 2: to have all the stuff under control that you've thought
Speaker 2: about and then forget it and just execute and just
Speaker 2: play and just let go. And that's what I'm trying
Speaker 2: to do generally. So I think I think that does
Speaker 2: ring true. I probably didn't have the internal fights that
Speaker 2: Rummy had in his head with the putter. I was
Speaker 2: just like, yeah, this swing's really good. Yeah, this is
Speaker 2: getting a consistent role. I don't need to find necessarily
Speaker 2: fault with it. How about I just use this thing
Speaker 2: and make more putts. And I was enjoying that end
Speaker 2: of it. And I've really enjoyed the relationship with Sam
Speaker 2: and his team and being able to give him feedback
Speaker 2: and then being receptive to that feedback, and in developing
Speaker 2: the MEZ and the mes Max and you know, getting
Speaker 2: to a place where I feel like I'm putting with
Speaker 2: as good a putter as I can cut with. That's
Speaker 2: that's been a fun process for me.
Speaker 1: I think he's very factual Scotty. I don't think he
Speaker 1: does anything, you know, on a whim or out of
Speaker 1: just you know, there is feel. I think, yeah, Scotty
Speaker 1: is very much a feel player, but I think at
Speaker 1: the same time he's very factual as well, So he's
Speaker 1: very very calculative Scotty. As much as you think he's
Speaker 1: very feel orientated, he's still very shoot with his with
Speaker 1: his thoughts and his concepts of what he's doing. So
Speaker 1: but very definite as well. And when he and the
Speaker 1: game is all that confidence, isn't it. You know, So
Speaker 1: when you start to back up you know, science technology
Speaker 1: with the feel and then the understanding, it's a it's
Speaker 1: a very powerful concoction of you know, of positives that's
Speaker 1: going to give you that that unequivocal without a doubt.
Speaker 1: Just go play. You know everything's locked away. Just go
Speaker 1: play now and that's probably the best thing. You know,
Speaker 1: you get a bit in the world of what it's
Speaker 1: all about, and then just go play. The idea of
Speaker 1: golf is just go play. Don't have to worry about
Speaker 1: all the all that stuff. You know, and does become feel,
Speaker 1: it becomes you know intuitive, just step up, give up
Speaker 1: control to take control and just let it go. You know,
Speaker 1: that's that's the world where you want to live. Get
Speaker 1: sold on the technology. Sure, that's you know, anyone can
Speaker 1: sell a putter, but at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: you have to you have to live with it, so
Speaker 1: and you've got to compete with that technology day and
Speaker 1: day out for your livelihood or otherwise or kicking your
Speaker 1: ass's mates. So yeah, kicking the butts of your mates
Speaker 1: and the rest of it. So and I think that's
Speaker 1: what wins people over eventually, is is that at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, that's it. The only other thing
Speaker 1: is maybe just the loft dynamics that I'm trying. I'm
Speaker 1: working hard with Samy on, but I just want.
Speaker 9: To see maybe the options of lofts, maybe because the
Speaker 9: putter does sold so well, and maybe having two or
Speaker 9: three heads that with varying surfaces, you might be able
Speaker 9: to just manipulate the losts without you know, trying to
Speaker 9: throw your hands.
Speaker 1: Back and forth. But that's about it, and love the
Speaker 1: rest it's I think.
Speaker 6: Yeah, him coming here in June, We're hoping was the
Speaker 6: beginning of a very beautiful relationship between us, and he's
Speaker 6: able to communicate this stuff to people that you know,
Speaker 6: who trust him and everything, and it's a beautiful relationship.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they said your visits to Oregon and your feedback
Speaker 3: and your your your your thoughts in perspective have been
Speaker 3: critical to UH to to where they are as a company.
Speaker 3: So they give you a lot of credit and uh
Speaker 3: and they you know, in the end, I think they've
Speaker 3: really appreciated the back and forth and you making the
Speaker 3: effort and the trips and yeah, so.
Speaker 1: I'm more I'm more thankful that that Sam reached out
Speaker 1: and made the contact, and not to say that he
Speaker 1: admitted the wrongings, but it was just cool that he
Speaker 1: that he reached out and you know, just yeah, it
Speaker 1: got to the bottom of it, and probably just more
Speaker 1: just try to clarify what his engineers already saw anyway,
Speaker 1: so they're they're already on it. They're already on the
Speaker 1: same page. So I certainly want want to take credit
Speaker 1: full credit for for what those guys are doing over there,
Speaker 1: because it's amazing what they're doing. The factor is incredible,
Speaker 1: it's growing every day. But they're prepared from the last
Speaker 1: time I was there. They've got some amazing technology. They've
Speaker 1: got some amazing machinery in there as well, which is
Speaker 1: doing his job. So just an awesome company, awesome family.
Speaker 1: At the end of the day when you get to
Speaker 1: that first green, it's just all about locking into holding
Speaker 1: a part and just the more things that you can
Speaker 1: eliminate in the thought process with putting them, the better,
Speaker 1: you know, simplify it to just hitting that the best
Speaker 1: puts you can. And a classic example was a story
Speaker 1: I told at the Cotta Slow Open where I've got
Speaker 1: a thirty footer. There's lots of stuff that can happen
Speaker 1: in between the impact of that golfer going in the hole,
Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, you go, you
Speaker 1: just got to give up on that and just put
Speaker 1: the best stroke you can on it. And that's what
Speaker 1: was really evident. It was just an amazing moment for
Speaker 1: me which I went, Okay, I get it. I understand
Speaker 1: what Sam's on about a bill and the technology, what
Speaker 1: it's all about. So it was just purely just emptied.
Speaker 1: It was amazing. It was quite don't want too used
Speaker 1: the word it was very spiritual.
Speaker 3: What version, what version do you put with?
Speaker 1: Well, I've I loved the DF three, I've had the prototype,
Speaker 1: and now they've just come out with a new DF
Speaker 1: which I'm Sam's going to be sending me well right now,
Speaker 1: So I think it's in the post, so I can't
Speaker 1: wait to get my hands on that because I love
Speaker 1: the DF. I love I love it's yeah, I love
Speaker 1: its size, and I love it shaft and I love
Speaker 1: it's offset as well. So I just love seeing a
Speaker 1: lot of the face. There's no shaft wall that's that's
Speaker 1: interfering with the with the leading edge. So just it's
Speaker 1: just really out there in the open and it's just
Speaker 1: good sight lines. I just love it and it just
Speaker 1: feels crazy balanced. I've used them all. The link is right.
Speaker 1: I'm using the MESSI max at the moment mes max so,
Speaker 1: which is awesome as well. So they're all all the
Speaker 1: tech is the same. I can I can part with
Speaker 1: any any one of them. And I do you know,
Speaker 1: play Wednesday comes here. I'm playing once or twice a
Speaker 1: week and I just alternated. I mix it up. It's
Speaker 1: a good feeling.
Speaker 3: We end this episode fittingly where it all began with
Speaker 3: Bill Pressey.
Speaker 4: I just so I talked to Sam yesterday. I sent
Speaker 4: him a message and I'm like, hey, I'm gonna be
Speaker 4: on the fire Pit Collective tomorrow. Is there any you
Speaker 4: know messages or you know the coaching, Uh, what's our message?
Speaker 5: And it's just just just do your thing. Am I okay?
Speaker 5: All right?
Speaker 4: And I'm like, you sound busy. He's like, yeah, I'm
Speaker 4: playing I'm playing golf with the Brent Rumfer right now.
Speaker 4: So that was yesterday.
Speaker 5: But I don't know anything else about it. What you
Speaker 5: tell me?
Speaker 3: Well, apparently he he second guessed the technology. Then eventually
Speaker 3: he came back and endorsed the technology he had. He
Speaker 3: was like a critic and now he's he's in within
Speaker 3: the culture and ultimately came up with the realization that quote,
Speaker 3: this is what was told to me. You've got to
Speaker 3: let go of control to gain control.
Speaker 4: That's correct, That's cool. I don't I don't know anything
Speaker 4: about this. I've been out in the woods for a
Speaker 4: couple of days. That's great. Ah, he's such a good dude.
Speaker 4: He's one of the good guys.
Speaker 3: He's second guest. He second guest. He had issues with it.
Speaker 3: It didn't make sense to him. He's he he got
Speaker 3: he went down the rabbit hole, he got in the weeds,
Speaker 3: and ultimately, you know, back and forthing with Sam or whatever,
Speaker 3: and then ultimately came back with like, hold on, now,
Speaker 3: I think you guys got it right now, I'm I'm
Speaker 3: in on it now it's I see it, and now
Speaker 3: I've realized. I've come to the realization that quote, in
Speaker 3: order to have this technology do what it's supposed to do,
Speaker 3: in order to have lie Angle Balance perform what it's
Speaker 3: supposed to do, which is basically the review, what is
Speaker 3: the revealer, it's totally letting go of control in order
Speaker 3: to gain control. That's what it articulates, right in a
Speaker 3: very simple form. He had to come to it to
Speaker 3: himself and ultimately decided that in order to make this work,
Speaker 3: you got to let go of control to gain control.
Speaker 3: And that was his light bulb moment. And now he's
Speaker 3: all in.
Speaker 5: That's so cool. I have to talk to Sam Tomar
Speaker 5: or later today or something. I didn't know. This is great.
Speaker 5: He's a you know, outside the Raiders thing. You know,
Speaker 5: he's a great guy.
Speaker 3: Fuck the Raiders. Hey, uh yeah, uh you know, I
Speaker 3: mean seriously, lab Putters quote let go of control to
Speaker 3: gain control. It's actually it's actually it actually works in
Speaker 3: life too, right, Like sometimes you've gotta sometimes you've got
Speaker 3: to let go to to gain control.
Speaker 4: And I think people let go of their fears the
Speaker 4: hardest thing that even though, like it's a fear, you
Speaker 4: think it would be easy to let go of, right,
Speaker 4: But fear in golf is the hardest thing by far.
Speaker 4: The scar tissue in and and the memories that that
Speaker 4: that exist in lurking your subconscious somewhere during that backstroke,
Speaker 4: they tend to open the door.
Speaker 5: And that is the.
Speaker 4: The fear there's you know what fear comes from, I'll
Speaker 4: tell you it comes from missing, right, comes from missing
Speaker 4: You know, what you miss is torque and unless you
Speaker 4: practice enough, or you've got this innate ability to know
Speaker 4: this particular golf club just like a good driver or
Speaker 4: like a good wedge that you have, you know it.
Speaker 5: You know what it's gonna do.
Speaker 4: But when you take away the torque, you could take
Speaker 4: away the fear and start reprogramming. And then you know,
Speaker 4: if you miss putts, it's a misread or or you
Speaker 4: made a poor stroke. It wasn't the yips though, the
Speaker 4: yips is, there's there's no bigger fear that is.
Speaker 5: I've had that.
Speaker 4: Have you ever had the yips with your driver? I've
Speaker 4: had the yips with my driver before. And it's the
Speaker 4: same thing. It's it's a it's a fear and and
Speaker 4: that's a scary, scary place to be in. I can't
Speaker 4: imagine a professional making a living to feed his family
Speaker 4: and pay his mortgage and all that stuff playing golf
Speaker 4: with the yips.
Speaker 5: That's just insane.
Speaker 3: On the subject of yips, up next, a deep dive
Speaker 3: into the Lucas Glover story. You'll hear from Glover, his agent,
Speaker 3: one of his best friends, a Navy seal, and several others,
Speaker 3: including more from Sam Hun.
Speaker 1: Lucas Glover crazy. Is it absolutely nuts?
Speaker 6: I mean, there's there's nothing to say. I mean, it's
Speaker 6: just there's there's nothing to say that hasn't been said
Speaker 6: in you know that the tens of thousands of words
Speaker 6: that have been written about him in the last couple
Speaker 6: of weeks, and he deserves every one of them. I've
Speaker 6: seen some remarkable turnarounds. I've never seen anything like that.
Speaker 6: I've never seen anything like it, and it's so fucking validating.
Speaker 1: Put another log on the fire. Nobody here is to
Speaker 1: get the time