Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name
Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday.
Speaker 1: Time for a vault episode. This is about the Bond
Speaker 1: Side Tree. It originally published January. Yeah, that's right. I
Speaker 1: think there's also some discussion in here about the TV
Speaker 1: show Cobra Kai Oki Doki. Welcome to Stuff to Blow
Speaker 1: Your Mind, production of My Heart Radio. Hey you welcome
Speaker 1: to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name is Robert
Speaker 1: Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and today we're gonna be
Speaker 1: talking about Bond Side Now, Brob, I hope you don't
Speaker 1: mind if I share a bit of trivia about you
Speaker 1: with the listeners. I don't know if you've ever made
Speaker 1: clear on this show before, but you are a very
Speaker 1: caring plant keeper. You've for a long time I am
Speaker 1: at work, had a wonderful little flower on your desk,
Speaker 1: and often, like if you're out of town, you would
Speaker 1: ask me to drop an ice cube on it, which
Speaker 1: I think I always remembered to do whenever you asked me. Um,
Speaker 1: but but yeah, I appreciate the care and tenderness you
Speaker 1: show for the plant kingdom. Well, Um, I appreciate that, Joe.
Speaker 1: I guess you could also say I just I managed
Speaker 1: not to kill an orchid, uh that that I was
Speaker 1: charged with. Um it was my my father in law's orchid.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I say so. I lived on my desk
Speaker 1: at work there, and it would have an ice cube
Speaker 1: every now and then to keep it hydrated. And I
Speaker 1: would ask you or sometimes a uh Scott who sat
Speaker 1: next to me, to to do it. Um, And uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I managed not to kill it. And there is something
Speaker 1: kind of satisfying about having this kind of like long
Speaker 1: term relationship with a plant. This this nurturing, you know,
Speaker 1: even if it's very slight nurturing and not like a
Speaker 1: you know, not a real high maintenance plant. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: it seems like a pretty sturdy speed sees that I
Speaker 1: had grown there and now it's growing in my bathroom,
Speaker 1: uh since I'm not in office anymore. But yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it is very very satisfying to to be involved in
Speaker 1: a in a nurturing relationship with a plant like that,
Speaker 1: just as it is so frustrating and potentially depressing to
Speaker 1: have the opposite relationship with the plant. You know, I
Speaker 1: think we've all had that as well, where like, oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, I cannot keep this thing alive, this plant
Speaker 1: just wants to die or I am just horrible at it. Now.
Speaker 1: One thing you may not have considered, and I apologize
Speaker 1: if this is an overly intimate thought, but whenever you
Speaker 1: have a plant growing in a bathroom, and we have
Speaker 1: plants growing in our bathrooms, you have to assume that
Speaker 1: they are making their cells as they continue to photosynthesize
Speaker 1: from the lights over the sink. They are making their
Speaker 1: cells out of some percentage of carbon that comes out
Speaker 1: of your like toilet emissions and so forth, probably, right,
Speaker 1: I guess. So, I mean that's I mean, that's I
Speaker 1: guess that's good. Right, You're you're exposing them to to
Speaker 1: more of the natural world even though they're an indoor plant. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I never thought about that before. Um well, I mean,
Speaker 1: so if it's mainly carbon dioxide, I assume it's probably
Speaker 1: more what you're breathing out. But I don't know. Farts
Speaker 1: probably have some CO two content, right I guess. But
Speaker 1: then again, if it's if it's farts the plants want,
Speaker 1: then they really want a fully packed office environment again, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean there's I can't possibly offer it
Speaker 1: the the you know, the kind of volume it was
Speaker 1: probably accustomed to. Well, so I'm excited to talk about
Speaker 1: bondside today. I have never myself taken care of a
Speaker 1: bonsai tree. I have, uh, I have tried to. I
Speaker 1: guess I don't know if this was this would count.
Speaker 1: I have tried to take care of a sort of
Speaker 1: potted tree of sorts. I don't know if it would
Speaker 1: actually count as bonsai. But I failed. I just I
Speaker 1: killed it. And that's why I'm partially envious of of
Speaker 1: the dedicated and regular care that you always showed to
Speaker 1: your orchid. Well, I would say that, you know, well, whatever,
Speaker 1: however you classify that care, Bonds I certainly on a
Speaker 1: on an entirely different level. It is up on the
Speaker 1: top of the mountain. We're talking about the pinnacle of
Speaker 1: of caring for a plant, and uh, yeah, this is
Speaker 1: this is one. This is an episode I've wanted to
Speaker 1: do for a while. I think my experience with Bonds
Speaker 1: I have never owned a bonds I or cared for
Speaker 1: a bonsai, but my experience with him with them is
Speaker 1: probably similar to a lot of people's out there. My
Speaker 1: first exposure was almost certainly watching the karate kid as
Speaker 1: a child. Uh, and seeing that, oh Mr Miyagi has
Speaker 1: has bonsai plants, those are neat uh. And then maybe
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe they popped up on a reading
Speaker 1: rainbow or something at some point I don't recall. But
Speaker 1: then much much later, uh, I you know, I was,
Speaker 1: I was traveling and I was visiting, but believe one
Speaker 1: place in San Francisco, in another place in San Diego
Speaker 1: where I got to see a multitude of bonsai plants,
Speaker 1: uh with you know, identification information as well as age.
Speaker 1: And it was just really amazing to behold these things,
Speaker 1: these these ancient trees that that you feel should be
Speaker 1: gi panic, but they are in miniature and they are alive,
Speaker 1: and they are just meticulously cared for and crafted. Uh.
Speaker 1: And yeah there's this there's this kind of magical aura
Speaker 1: to them and this and this age, this kind of
Speaker 1: condensed age, you know. Um, so they're they're really special
Speaker 1: to just behold. And then when you read a little
Speaker 1: bit about caring for them, Yeah, it also Uh that
Speaker 1: just adds to your level of appreciation when you read
Speaker 1: about the culture involved in it. And uh. And so yeah,
Speaker 1: I wanted to do an episode on this for a while,
Speaker 1: and then I've kind of forgotten about it. I think
Speaker 1: we pitched it as part of a deal with a UM,
Speaker 1: a Japanese automobile company that was gonna advertise for this,
Speaker 1: and and then that didn't happen. I forgot about it.
Speaker 1: But then I ended up watching Cobra Kai on Netflix,
Speaker 1: which also has the Bonsai trees in it, and uh,
Speaker 1: and I was reminded, Oh, yeah, we we should do
Speaker 1: a bonsaie episode. Got bonds I bouncing around in the brain. Okay,
Speaker 1: so maybe you can answer a question that I'm sure
Speaker 1: a lot of people are wondering, What is it? What
Speaker 1: makes the strict definition of a Bondsai tree? What makes
Speaker 1: a bonds I tree different than any potted plant. Well, um,
Speaker 1: based on my understanding of it, I would say that
Speaker 1: the big thing to do is you sort of have
Speaker 1: to back up and think about it not just as
Speaker 1: caring for a tree and growing for a tree and
Speaker 1: nurturing a tree, but it's also just it's also steeped
Speaker 1: in just like the basics of art and design, you know,
Speaker 1: because art in design, you know, very often sent around
Speaker 1: the manipulation of the natural world or natural resources into
Speaker 1: some form that is esthetically pleasing and perhaps even philosophical
Speaker 1: or theologically engaging as well. You know, we take stone
Speaker 1: and we craft into the likeness of a human or
Speaker 1: some sort of humanoid figure of myth or legend. Trees
Speaker 1: are cut down in hun and then the raw material
Speaker 1: is carved into all manner of forms and functions. But
Speaker 1: as for the control of living plants, that brings us,
Speaker 1: of course to agriculture and cultivation. Um and and human
Speaker 1: works are pretty grand in this realm as well. I mean,
Speaker 1: you look at what we have done for generations and
Speaker 1: generations with agriculture and cultivation. But the bonds depening bonds
Speaker 1: eye tree. It is the pinnacle of plant cultivation. Uh
Speaker 1: And and I think that Brad Dunning described this exceptionally
Speaker 1: well for the New York Times back in two thousand two.
Speaker 1: Uh they wrote, quote, but it's more than just an
Speaker 1: issue of control, simple for it simply for the sake
Speaker 1: of control. As nature spins wildly downward, there is an
Speaker 1: example of man controlling, conquering, nurturing, and respecting nature on
Speaker 1: an extremely uh reverential level. By constantly thwarting the growth
Speaker 1: of new saplings. The Bonsai gardener through pinching cutting and
Speaker 1: splitting new growth forces the tree's branches to strain in
Speaker 1: any direction to succeed. With additional help from restraining wires,
Speaker 1: the tree is manipulated into prematurely aged shape over time.
Speaker 1: Sometimes a lot of time. Prize specimens can be several
Speaker 1: hundred years old. So bonds is not just a potted plant,
Speaker 1: but it's a tree that's grown in a confined environment
Speaker 1: with this spirit of artistic shaping. Yes, yeah, and uh
Speaker 1: and and along and you know, certain traditional like you
Speaker 1: get into like what kind of pot is used, etcetera.
Speaker 1: And then it of also noted what species is used. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, as as is often the case with with
Speaker 1: this particularly you know, Japanese artistry, there are a lot
Speaker 1: of very particular details in the cultivation and it you know,
Speaker 1: it comes down to things like what are their traditional
Speaker 1: shears that one should use, what are the best shears? Uh,
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. Um. Another thing that's interesting about
Speaker 1: bonsai trees to me, and I think this comes through
Speaker 1: through all this pruning and shaping and everything, is that, Um,
Speaker 1: a bonsai tree does not just look like a sapling
Speaker 1: or like a young tree. There is a particular style
Speaker 1: of miniaturization that comes about through the long sustained care
Speaker 1: of this this small plant, which is that it is
Speaker 1: a tiny version of a tree that looks like a
Speaker 1: shrunken adult version of the same tree, a round other
Speaker 1: than just a sapling or young growth. Does that make sense? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And exactly that they're like this ancient dwarf and uh
Speaker 1: and it and it a lot of the reasons that
Speaker 1: this is attractive to us. I feel like they almost
Speaker 1: deny or that they defy rather um, you know, easy explanation.
Speaker 1: You know, there's something obviously about the world at large
Speaker 1: made small that we're always fascinated. And you know, we
Speaker 1: love miniatures, be it, you know, miniature miniature soldiers, miniature tanks,
Speaker 1: miniature cities, maps, etcetera. Uh. And in fact, one of
Speaker 1: the the the origin stories for the Bonsai trees that
Speaker 1: will touch on has to do with that, like the
Speaker 1: idea of like make make the world at large small
Speaker 1: enough for me to behold it. Uh. But then also
Speaker 1: there is something too about like the ancient made small
Speaker 1: like it it reminds me of so many myths of
Speaker 1: like tiny little old men, you know, that have some
Speaker 1: sort of magical powers, you know, little folks. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And there's something of the of the fairy world, you know,
Speaker 1: in that that you know, non culturally distinct manner to
Speaker 1: the bonds eye tree. Now, um, there are of course
Speaker 1: true bonds eyes created in accordance with the Japanese tradition. Uh.
Speaker 1: And there are various tears that follow that fall below
Speaker 1: the standard, with one of the most notorious being the
Speaker 1: sort of bonds eye that sometimes is sold at malls,
Speaker 1: grocery stores and street fairs. And these, according to Stephen
Speaker 1: Or in New York Times Garden Q and A in
Speaker 1: two thousand nine, are a curse upon the name of
Speaker 1: bonds ie. Uh. These are typically young rooted juniper tree
Speaker 1: cuttings in a decorative pot. Uh. So not true bonds eyes.
Speaker 1: Will get into what true bonds I really consists of
Speaker 1: in a bit. But people will buy these, they think
Speaker 1: they have a bonds eye. It looks neat, they bring
Speaker 1: it home, and then they're devastated when it dies in
Speaker 1: a few months. So not a not an ancient dwarf
Speaker 1: tree or something that will become an ancient dwarf tree,
Speaker 1: but just a short lived trick. And this made me
Speaker 1: think of Cobra Kai actually because in the TV show
Speaker 1: UM Ralph Macchio's character, uh, you know from the first film,
Speaker 1: is now a a car dealer and he has a
Speaker 1: car dealers shop, and part of his whole gimmick in
Speaker 1: the show is when you buy a car, you also
Speaker 1: get this little bonds eye plant that he prepares. And
Speaker 1: I guess it's supposed to you know, he's he's very
Speaker 1: meticulous character and he's all into the tradition, So I
Speaker 1: guess it's supposed to be the case that these are
Speaker 1: legitimate bonds eye trees that he's handing out to customers.
Speaker 1: But it makes me wonder how many. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: he sells nice cars, but I wonder it does the
Speaker 1: cynical side of me um leaning into sort of the
Speaker 1: sort of the cynical notes to that character in that show,
Speaker 1: is like, I wonder if these are just the cheap
Speaker 1: roadside bonds eyes that he's handing out. You know, that
Speaker 1: would be very car dealery. But you can always blame
Speaker 1: user error, right, You can always just say like, I
Speaker 1: must not have taken care of it, right, Yeah, better
Speaker 1: bring it back into the shop. We'll apply that undercoating
Speaker 1: the true code. Yeah, you're gonna want that true code
Speaker 1: on your bonds. Eye. Yeah. Uh, it's a fun show. Um.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, let's well, let's keep going talking about bonds eyes. Then.
Speaker 1: So at the heart of the bonsai practice is just
Speaker 1: pure artistic manipulation of the tree's growth. Trees, as you've
Speaker 1: probably notice, everyone grow in accordance to their genes, but
Speaker 1: also in accordance to their surroundings. So this means the
Speaker 1: dictates of water, soil, and sun, various other limiting factors
Speaker 1: in their immediate surroundings as well, such as other trees,
Speaker 1: human structures, power lines. Uh. You know, as I think
Speaker 1: we all can attest to, you can you can see
Speaker 1: some pretty wonky trees out in the world, out in
Speaker 1: the forest in urban environments, you know, where they do
Speaker 1: the best they can with the with the constraints that
Speaker 1: are there. Um. And indeed they can produce natural examples
Speaker 1: of what you can at least roughly classify as a
Speaker 1: bonsai tree. For instance, if you were to travel down
Speaker 1: to a place called Tate's Hell and uh, Tate's Hell
Speaker 1: State Forest near Tallahassee, Florida, and I have to say
Speaker 1: I have driven through it. I can't say I've actually
Speaker 1: visited that. I did drive through it. Uh, there there
Speaker 1: is a forest apparently of miniature cypress trees hundreds of
Speaker 1: years old, covering acres and none more than fifteen feet tall. Which, granted,
Speaker 1: that's far bigger than what you might think of as
Speaker 1: the bonds I tree, a true bonds I tree, um.
Speaker 1: But bear in mind that cypress trees of this variety
Speaker 1: and age can reach heights of a hundred and fifty feet. Yes,
Speaker 1: old cypress trees can can be towering, and so there
Speaker 1: are special conditions at work that keep this ancient forest
Speaker 1: as short as it is. I was reading that most
Speaker 1: of these trees are between um like six and fifteen
Speaker 1: feet at maturity. I think a lot of them around
Speaker 1: ten feet or so. Uh, and it's very strange looking.
Speaker 1: I found one picture that's like an aerial shot of
Speaker 1: this dwarf cypress forest that is surrounded by many other trees.
Speaker 1: I think the story goes that at some point there
Speaker 1: was a company that was harvesting a lot of the
Speaker 1: trees from the area. I think maybe for logging or
Speaker 1: maybe to clear land for something. But um, but when
Speaker 1: they the dwarf cypress forests, they realized that that they
Speaker 1: that this was something unusual and worth preserving, so they
Speaker 1: they stopped a lot of their their shaping of the
Speaker 1: land at the edge of this thing, and it did
Speaker 1: end up getting preserved when the state bought it and
Speaker 1: turned it into a state forest. But a sidebar on
Speaker 1: Tate's Hell, because I had to know what was up
Speaker 1: with that name, and I looked into it, and I
Speaker 1: actually was rewarded with some very excellent Florida swamp lore. Alright,
Speaker 1: let's have it. Well, So I was reading about it
Speaker 1: in this book called Florida Lore by Karen Schnuir Neil
Speaker 1: published in tween, and she points out, first of all,
Speaker 1: there is a song by the old Florida folk singer
Speaker 1: Will McLean about tates Hell, and it it tells the
Speaker 1: same story as the legend that I'm about to explain.
Speaker 1: But it's also one of those old style folk songs
Speaker 1: that starts with a section that is not singing, but
Speaker 1: it's kind of rapping, I don't know exactly what you
Speaker 1: call it, like fast rhythmic rhyming talking before the tune
Speaker 1: kicks in where he says, like, listen, good people to
Speaker 1: a story I'll tell of a great swamp in Florida
Speaker 1: place called Tate's Hell. Yeah, yeah, it's sort of like
Speaker 1: the pre folk song ramble. Sometimes I guess it rhymes,
Speaker 1: oftentimes it does not, but you hear it from from
Speaker 1: a number of practitioners of the craft. I know phil
Speaker 1: Oaks would do it a lot, you know, where he's
Speaker 1: kind of working up. He's like, all right, I listening
Speaker 1: this tune and I got a little and sometimes it's
Speaker 1: even like a bit. It's almost like a little comedy
Speaker 1: bit and I guess, I guess off, yeah, yeah, and
Speaker 1: I guess that's what uh oh, what's their name? Is
Speaker 1: kind of leaned into this a lot and their act.
Speaker 1: Uh the famous folk comedy duo Oh, I can't think
Speaker 1: of their names offhand. Um, I don't know. I don't
Speaker 1: know who one of them is, Bob, one of them
Speaker 1: has a beard, soft spoken Garfunkel and notes no it's
Speaker 1: not Garfunkle notes though, I think they probably have like
Speaker 1: more of a modern version of this, and it's it's
Speaker 1: not the Flight of the Concords. Those are the two
Speaker 1: folk comedy duos I know. These are the one They
Speaker 1: were on TV all the time. Um oh man um
Speaker 1: Smothers Brothers, the Smothers brothers. I don't know why I was.
Speaker 1: I was trying. Yeah, Well, will McLean tells us that
Speaker 1: Tate's Hell is a place where the bull gators beller
Speaker 1: and the panthers squall. Now, this is a place that
Speaker 1: should be shunned by all. And so the legend goes
Speaker 1: like this, But this is the version that I was
Speaker 1: reading in the book by um by Neil, not by
Speaker 1: not in will McLean's song, though they're similar. The legend
Speaker 1: goes that in the year eighteen there was a homesteader
Speaker 1: named CB Tate who had staked a claim for a
Speaker 1: ranch in the Panhandle of Florida. And that's where Tate's
Speaker 1: Hell is. It's up in the Panhandle. It's uh, I
Speaker 1: think it's near Wacola Springs, isn't it. Um Perhaps, I mean,
Speaker 1: certainly I've been to Wacola or Waccola. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: exactly what the preferred pronunciation there is. Uh. Yeah, I've
Speaker 1: been there, but I guess I don't remember how I
Speaker 1: even came through Tate's Hell. It was just we were
Speaker 1: on the way to somewhere else and we had to
Speaker 1: pass through it. Well, it's near a place the is
Speaker 1: now called Sumatra, Florida. It's an unincorporated community about thirty
Speaker 1: miles from the city of Carabelle. And the context for
Speaker 1: this is that there was the Homestead Act of eighteen
Speaker 1: sixty two, which meant that settlers could get a grant
Speaker 1: of supposedly free land from the government if they would
Speaker 1: agree to stay there and develop it for five years.
Speaker 1: And cbtit is one of these homesteaders. So he's got
Speaker 1: a he's got a ranch or a farm that he's
Speaker 1: trying to run, and one morning he discovers that a
Speaker 1: panther has mauled several of his cows. So he sets
Speaker 1: off in the forest with his hunting dogs and the
Speaker 1: implements of death, as Will McLean says, an old long
Speaker 1: tom shotgun and a sharp barlow knife. That panther would
Speaker 1: sure have the chase of his life. And so Tate's
Speaker 1: dogs they get the scent on the panther and they
Speaker 1: take off after it, but Tate himself falls behind and
Speaker 1: he gets separated from his hunting dogs. Unfortunately, as we've
Speaker 1: discussed in the podcast last October, when there is no
Speaker 1: visible landmark to navigate by, it's surprisingly easy to get
Speaker 1: lost in the woods, and that appears to be what
Speaker 1: happens here. He's wandering in the swampy forest and he
Speaker 1: gets lost and at some point he gets bitten by
Speaker 1: a snake and he loses his gun. And to read
Speaker 1: from Karen schnurneil here quote, for seven days and nights
Speaker 1: he roamed the ancient trees in ominous swampland, more often
Speaker 1: than not, dazed with hunger and heat, forced to live
Speaker 1: on nothing but roots and muddy water. To make matters worse,
Speaker 1: the mosquitoes swarmed around him until every inch of his
Speaker 1: body was bitten. That's worse than the snake bite to me. Yeah. Uh.
Speaker 1: And the story says that over the course of the
Speaker 1: week that he was lost, his hair turned white. But
Speaker 1: then after seven days, just when he was convinced he
Speaker 1: was going to die, Tate ran into a couple of
Speaker 1: a couple of hunters from Carabelle, and they asked him
Speaker 1: who are you and where do you come from? And
Speaker 1: he says, my name is CB Tate, and I come
Speaker 1: from Hell. Probably not exactly true, but it is a
Speaker 1: good story. But anyway, if the story were true, it's
Speaker 1: possible that many of the cypress trees that are still
Speaker 1: no more than ten or fifteen feet tall today in
Speaker 1: the cypress forest of Tate's Hell would have been there
Speaker 1: to watch Cbta get snake bit, you know, a middle
Speaker 1: of the bull gator bellers. Because again a lot of
Speaker 1: these these trees are are quite old there, you know,
Speaker 1: hundreds of years old, even though they're still so small.
Speaker 1: And I was reading a post about the dwarf cypress
Speaker 1: forest on the blog of a local conservation organization called
Speaker 1: the Appalachicola River Keeper, and the author of this blog
Speaker 1: post writes that quote, these dwarf pond cypress trees may
Speaker 1: have become stunted due to a hard layer of clay
Speaker 1: that prevents roots from growing deeper, similar to planting a
Speaker 1: tree in a bond said pot. So that's one possibility.
Speaker 1: Another they go on. Also, the soil is low and nutrients,
Speaker 1: as evidenced by the carnivorous plants in the area. You
Speaker 1: can also find dwarf cypress trees near the picture plant
Speaker 1: Boggs north of Sumatra, so there may be some correlation. Now,
Speaker 1: remember we've discussed carnivorous plants on the show before. The
Speaker 1: reason that carnivorous plants eat insects, or at least most
Speaker 1: carnivorous plants, I would assume all uh, the reason they
Speaker 1: eat insects is not the same as the main reason
Speaker 1: that we would eat plants or animals. You know, we
Speaker 1: need to eat things to get you know, protein and energy.
Speaker 1: Plants photosynthesized sunlight to get the energy they need to live.
Speaker 1: So carnivorous plants eat for specific nutrients that are lacking
Speaker 1: in barren and often swampy soil. What other plants would
Speaker 1: get from the soil around them, carnivorous plants get from insects.
Speaker 1: And in human terms, when plants eat an insect there
Speaker 1: it's not like devouring a loaf of bread. It's like
Speaker 1: they're taking their vitamins. So, according to this source, at
Speaker 1: least that same type of nutrient poor soil could be
Speaker 1: one thing preventing the cypress trees from growing taller. Or
Speaker 1: it could be a hard layer of sediment that blocks
Speaker 1: root growth, which in turn shapes the body of the
Speaker 1: tree as a whole, which is very much what happens
Speaker 1: when you plant a tree in a pot. And this
Speaker 1: also ties into something else interesting that I was reading
Speaker 1: that that I guess I'll come back to in a
Speaker 1: few minutes. But yeah, so bonsai trees are there, their
Speaker 1: growth is constrained by several factors, but one of the
Speaker 1: main ones being the pot that they're confined to help
Speaker 1: shape the not just where the roots go, but the
Speaker 1: the overall shape of the tree as a whole. That's interest. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that and that ties directly into what we're talking about
Speaker 1: with the with the bonsai. Um. Now, I will say
Speaker 1: that as far as Tate's Helle goes, I do remember
Speaker 1: how I wound up there. I was midway upon the
Speaker 1: journey of our life, and I found myself within a
Speaker 1: forest dart uh for the far straightforward pathway had been lost.
Speaker 1: Uh oh and what and you ran into three beasts,
Speaker 1: one of which was a panther ye yeah, maybe another
Speaker 1: was a bull gator. Yeah. And then Virgil jumped out
Speaker 1: and there was a big action scene. He defeated them,
Speaker 1: and then we yeah, then we went into Tate's hell
Speaker 1: Floridian Virgil though Poppy Satan Leppie. Yeah. Alright, so yeah,
Speaker 1: back the bonds eyes here bonsai proper. So yeah, in need.
Speaker 1: Some of the models for bonsai trees are actually trees
Speaker 1: found growing in the natural environment, uh, particularly growing over
Speaker 1: water or on the sides of mountains, you know, in
Speaker 1: the rocky crags, forced by their inform environment into dwarf
Speaker 1: forms like we're talking about here. So again, the bonsai
Speaker 1: treatment is trying to do is doing what nature does
Speaker 1: in constraining the growth of a tree, but then taking
Speaker 1: it to the next level, you know, involving just absolute
Speaker 1: artistic manipulation of the form. Bonsai means roughly tree in
Speaker 1: a pot in Japanese. Uh. Specifically, we're talking plants grown
Speaker 1: in shallow containers and via the exact tenants of bonsai
Speaker 1: pruning and training. So it's it's worth stressing that a
Speaker 1: bonsai is not genetically a dwarf plant, nor is it
Speaker 1: kept all three some sort of reginative torture or anything
Speaker 1: like that. No, it's these physical constraints we've been talking about,
Speaker 1: which as shown in one possible explanation of the dwarf
Speaker 1: Cyprus in in the swamp there that that can happen
Speaker 1: in nature. It happens, like you're saying, on cliff faces
Speaker 1: and other times, when the physical forces around a plant
Speaker 1: shape its growth. Though, I do want to say, while
Speaker 1: bonsai trees are not not generally genetically dwarfed plants, the
Speaker 1: subject of actual genetic dwarf plant strains actually has a
Speaker 1: massive impact on the recent history of the world. This
Speaker 1: is something that is a fact that's actually little appreciated
Speaker 1: by many people, considering how consequential it has been in
Speaker 1: the world, and something that goes beyond the art and
Speaker 1: esthetics of plant keeping. Dwarf plants and what are sometimes
Speaker 1: known as semi dwarf plants have played a shockingly powerful
Speaker 1: role in the economics and practicalities of food crops over
Speaker 1: the last I guess like sixty seventy years, so uh
Speaker 1: Dwarf or semi dwarfs strains of crop plants like wheat
Speaker 1: and rice especially have very much change the world, and
Speaker 1: if you want to learn more about this, you can
Speaker 1: look up the Green Revolution. Basically, this refers to a
Speaker 1: suite of new technologies and techniques and agriculture, especially new
Speaker 1: dwarf strains of staple crops like wheat and rice that
Speaker 1: were developed and deployed throughout the nineteen fifties and sixties,
Speaker 1: and of course new agricultural techniques and transgenic plants and
Speaker 1: things like that. Have lots of modern critics, but all
Speaker 1: of those criticisms considered, it is widely acknowledged that the
Speaker 1: Green Revolution played an unprecedented role in decreasing world hunger
Speaker 1: and has probably saved at least a billion human lives.
Speaker 1: Now you might immediately wonder why, like why would physically
Speaker 1: smaller strains of crop plants like wheat and rice actually
Speaker 1: make a difference. How could they? How could smaller plants
Speaker 1: help save millions or billions of lives? Well, one paper
Speaker 1: I was looking at in the journal Plant Physiology had
Speaker 1: a good short summary of this in its background section.
Speaker 1: This was by any a Elias at All. It was
Speaker 1: published in and so they note that semi dwarf is
Speaker 1: um in plants results in a few things, one of
Speaker 1: the which is decreased lodging. Lodging is a term in
Speaker 1: agriculture where tall crop plants like wheat stalks can bend
Speaker 1: over at the base. You've probably actually seen this before
Speaker 1: in wheat fields, where they just sort of like fold
Speaker 1: over into the ground, making the grain difficult to harvest.
Speaker 1: And the shorter stalks do this far less, but there's
Speaker 1: also just an increased yield of grain and improved harvest index.
Speaker 1: The harvest index is the percent of the above ground
Speaker 1: biomass represented by the harvest herble part of the plant.
Speaker 1: In other words, like what percentage of the part of
Speaker 1: the plant that's above ground is actually grain and not
Speaker 1: just you know, unusable stalk or husk. But in addition
Speaker 1: to these enormously consequential changes in strains of cereal crops,
Speaker 1: the authors point out that semi dwarf is um has
Speaker 1: big benefits in fruit tree production. So, you know, tree
Speaker 1: trees that produce fruits like apples or peaches can have
Speaker 1: semi dwarf varieties that are that are very useful to farmers.
Speaker 1: In certain cases, they might bear fruit earlier in the season,
Speaker 1: have higher yields of fruit. Um be easier to harvest
Speaker 1: because the fruit is just like closer to the grounds,
Speaker 1: so it's easier to pick um. But of course semi
Speaker 1: dwarf species play a big role in pure aesthetics to quote.
Speaker 1: Semi dwarf woody species are also extensively used in ornamental horticulture,
Speaker 1: where they allow more compact forms to be fit into
Speaker 1: small areas around homes and on streets to reduce the
Speaker 1: need for pruning to avoid interference with structures and transmission lines.
Speaker 1: I've never considered that before. Yeah, I mean, you do
Speaker 1: hear about problems with with roots interfering with structures and
Speaker 1: plumbing and so forth, So it makes sense. I am
Speaker 1: intimately familiar with that, as is anybody else out there
Speaker 1: who has ever had to replace a sewer line that
Speaker 1: was being traded by the roots of an ornamental plant.
Speaker 1: It's real, folks, The anguish is profound when when your
Speaker 1: toilets won't flush. But anyway, this paper in particular, that
Speaker 1: was just stuff that it talks about in its background section.
Speaker 1: The actual point of this paper is making the case
Speaker 1: for using semi dwarf strains of trees in forestry. Uh
Speaker 1: the author's right quote. Although against the current orthodoxy of
Speaker 1: forest tree breeding, where height growth is emphasized. You know,
Speaker 1: usually you want trees to be tall, they say that
Speaker 1: semi dwarf is um might also have benefits for wood
Speaker 1: and biomass production. Such trees could be useful if they
Speaker 1: were less prone to wind throw due to their shorter,
Speaker 1: stockier forms and expected greater allocation to roots. Reduced stature
Speaker 1: could also result in less bending and slanting of trunks
Speaker 1: in the face of wind and gravity on hill slopes,
Speaker 1: and thus reduced the extent of reaction would formation, which
Speaker 1: degrades the performance and value of solid wood and pulp products.
Speaker 1: Reduced height and increased allocation of growth to roots might
Speaker 1: enhance stress tolerance, soil nutrient uptake, bio remediation, and carbon sequestration. Um.
Speaker 1: So again, this was published in twelve. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: how their argument about the use of dwarf strains in
Speaker 1: forestry holds up since then, but it's a really interesting
Speaker 1: idea to appreciate how much of a difference in the
Speaker 1: world has just been made by not just new agricultural
Speaker 1: techniques and irrigation and things like that, but just the
Speaker 1: introduction of smaller plants. It's literally changed human civilization, uh
Speaker 1: and elsewhere. Just as one note, I read about some
Speaker 1: dwarf crops strains potentially being developed for use in space flight,
Speaker 1: which I thought was pretty funny. You can see it's interesting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember getting into this. I don't know they were
Speaker 1: well you would classify as a dwarf plant. But I
Speaker 1: remember in our episode about tomatoes, we touched on tomato
Speaker 1: varieties that have been developed potentially for use in a
Speaker 1: low gravity environment. Yeah. Yeah, so it could be similar
Speaker 1: things here. I imagine, not trees for forestry, but you know,
Speaker 1: food bearing plants I would assume. But but to bring
Speaker 1: things back to bons I again. As you emphasized earlier,
Speaker 1: with Bonsai, were generally talking about trees that are tiny
Speaker 1: by way of nurture, not nature right there, These are
Speaker 1: not genetically dwarf strains. There are. There are constraints imposed
Speaker 1: upon them by their their human cultivators that keep them
Speaker 1: in this tiny shape. And one thing that's really interesting
Speaker 1: about plants is that it's striking how much nurture can
Speaker 1: look like nature when it comes to the plant kingdom.
Speaker 1: And this brings me to one last thing I wanted
Speaker 1: to talk about briefly. It was a really interesting essay
Speaker 1: I was reading, uh published an Eon magazine. It was
Speaker 1: called Rooted from October twenty nineteen, and it's about the
Speaker 1: concept of of how trees embody history, that that time
Speaker 1: is really shown through a tree and uh it was
Speaker 1: written by Alia Nasser, who is a lecturer and philosophy
Speaker 1: at the University of Sydney, and by Margaret M. Barber,
Speaker 1: who is a professor of plant physiology at the at
Speaker 1: the University of Sydney. And so I just want to
Speaker 1: read a quote from their their article here. While all
Speaker 1: living beings carry their past with them into their present
Speaker 1: and future selves, Trees embody their history in a way
Speaker 1: that is far more explicit and with greater detail and
Speaker 1: visibility than any other living being. The history of any
Speaker 1: particular tree is not hidden in an interior part, nor
Speaker 1: is it found in only one of its parts. As such,
Speaker 1: trees call attention to the historicity of life, demanding that
Speaker 1: we think of life not as static and machine like,
Speaker 1: but as a dynamic context. Sensitive and plastic trees are
Speaker 1: not only embodied recorders of their history, but also shape shifters,
Speaker 1: whose structure transforms in relation to their environment. Put simply,
Speaker 1: trees express their context in their physical warm. Trees of
Speaker 1: the same species can look significantly different depending on their
Speaker 1: growth environment, and even within an individual tree, the leaves
Speaker 1: at the shady bottom of the canopy are anatomically different,
Speaker 1: meaning larger and thinner from those at the top, smaller
Speaker 1: and thicker. When densely planted, trees grow long, straight trunks
Speaker 1: and small canopies, but when planted in a grass field
Speaker 1: that grow shorter stems and broad crowns. The crown of
Speaker 1: a solitary oak spreads out in all directions, eventually achieving
Speaker 1: a dome shape, while an oak growing in a forest
Speaker 1: develops a small crown and its growth is patterned on
Speaker 1: the growth of surrounding trees, or think of a bond
Speaker 1: said tree in contrast to its full size sibling. Trees
Speaker 1: are so adaptive to their surroundings that a human equivalent
Speaker 1: to tree plasticity would be certain people growing large webbed
Speaker 1: feet like diving flippers simply because they swim a lot.
Speaker 1: And they go on to point out other examples of
Speaker 1: this that, uh this actually would tie back into the
Speaker 1: dwarf cypress example from Tate's Hell that the soil quality,
Speaker 1: for example, can shape a tree. And uh so all
Speaker 1: these different features of the natural environment come through in
Speaker 1: the shape and form and physiology of a tree that
Speaker 1: could start genetically identical but end up looking so far
Speaker 1: apart they would be unrecognizable. Wow. I I really love
Speaker 1: that the idea of the especially the way time is
Speaker 1: wound up in a tree, because that does seem to
Speaker 1: be a huge part of of Bonsai tree tradition, because
Speaker 1: these are things that that very often outlive the individual
Speaker 1: who is caring for them. You know, it's it's a
Speaker 1: thing that has to be passed on. It is that
Speaker 1: they're sometimes described as being like children, you know, Um,
Speaker 1: and I was thinking about this, especially when I watched
Speaker 1: a Great Big Story video about bonsai shares. Great Big
Speaker 1: Story is sadly funk now. But they before they went out,
Speaker 1: they made a whole bunch of videos about various various
Speaker 1: cultural things and practices, and a number of these relate
Speaker 1: to Japanese cultural um things and topics. But there's one
Speaker 1: titled making thirty five thousand dollar Bonsaie Scissors that I
Speaker 1: recommend checking out, and it's about this, uh, this guy
Speaker 1: who is the the Saska brand of of bonsaie scissors,
Speaker 1: which I think are the only traditional bonsaie scissors uh
Speaker 1: that are still created in um in Japan. And you
Speaker 1: can look them up. Look look this uh this guy
Speaker 1: up online. It's it's like s a s u k
Speaker 1: e um bonsai shears or look up the video and
Speaker 1: it's it's really insightful. But in this particular video, you
Speaker 1: have this this older Japanese man talking about the crafting
Speaker 1: of the scissors and how long it takes. You know,
Speaker 1: like you'll get in, someone will put in a request,
Speaker 1: You'll be like, okay, I need I need a half
Speaker 1: a year or so to uh to figure out what
Speaker 1: kind of shears to make for you, you know, and
Speaker 1: then he's making it for somebody who is a bonds
Speaker 1: uh practition or somebody who's deeply immersed in the culture.
Speaker 1: And you get the sense of human being sort of
Speaker 1: living to a certain extent too, as to as to
Speaker 1: whatever extent is possible for a human being to live
Speaker 1: on the time scale of the trees they care for,
Speaker 1: you know. Uh. And it's really really kind of beautiful
Speaker 1: and does get into, I guess, the the meditative aspects
Speaker 1: of bonsai tree care. I like the idea that a
Speaker 1: lot of these sasuke shears they've got kind of like,
Speaker 1: at least the ones I was looking at online often
Speaker 1: have like these long roping kind of handles instead of
Speaker 1: just the normal functional sort of like grippy handles of
Speaker 1: garden shears you buy it lows, and the long looping
Speaker 1: handles actually make it look like it's kind of made
Speaker 1: out of plant growth, you know, it's like the their
Speaker 1: roots in your fingers. Yeah. Yeah, they're very they're beautiful
Speaker 1: to behold. Uh, you have these big looping handles, and
Speaker 1: and of course part of it, too, I'm to understand,
Speaker 1: is that you want very precise, very sharp shears because
Speaker 1: the cleaner cut that you get, the healthier it is
Speaker 1: for the organism. Oh yeah, that makes sense. You want
Speaker 1: to you wanna like sheer very cleanly instead of crushing, right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And so that's one of the reasons you tend to
Speaker 1: see if not sheers like this, then at least some
Speaker 1: other fancy variety of sheers. You know, You're not just
Speaker 1: getting in there with your old rusty garden pruners and
Speaker 1: chopping away, you know, you want something very precise. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then also I think it's one of those situations
Speaker 1: where the tools are part of the practice, you know. Um.
Speaker 1: But as far as the organism goes, various tree species
Speaker 1: can be bonds eye trees. But there are essentially two
Speaker 1: broad categories here, um, indoor and outdoor. Though uh this
Speaker 1: was in the writing of of Or, who did that
Speaker 1: piece for New York Times which I mentioned earlier. I
Speaker 1: will point out that I have seen other people sort
Speaker 1: of shy away from the idea of indoor bonds I
Speaker 1: and it seemed to imply that true bonds I are
Speaker 1: are all outdoor bonds. I. So I'm not sure where
Speaker 1: to land on that. But or at any rate, So okay,
Speaker 1: first of all, you have outdoor bonds ie to do
Speaker 1: best in temperate regions featuring species such as pine cedar, ginko,
Speaker 1: Japanese maple, horn beam, and juniper, and they often require
Speaker 1: a cool dormant period like a you know, winter period,
Speaker 1: and species like the juniper will require overwintering, often in
Speaker 1: a greenhouse or a sunroom. And then if you're dealing
Speaker 1: with indoor bonds eye according to Or, these are typically
Speaker 1: tropical and subtropical plant plants such as uh Ficus, uming
Speaker 1: rivia um potocarpus, and dwarf jade. And Or writes that
Speaker 1: these require something similar to normal indoor house plant care,
Speaker 1: but they also require you know, of course all the
Speaker 1: various aspects of bonsai, uh pruning, etcetera. But also they
Speaker 1: require more watering due to those shallow pots. Well, so
Speaker 1: we've discussed how the shallow pots can help shelter shape
Speaker 1: the body of the tree, But obviously another major feature
Speaker 1: is what comes in with the pruning itself. So like,
Speaker 1: what is the process us of this ongoing care? Okay,
Speaker 1: so some of these will be obvious to folks who
Speaker 1: engage in any level of like treat care and outdoor stuff,
Speaker 1: but but other stuff is more specific to bonds. I so,
Speaker 1: first of all, trimming is the removal of outer branch tips,
Speaker 1: while pruning is the specific removal of individual branches, stems,
Speaker 1: or even parts of the trunk. On top of that
Speaker 1: you have things like wiring and clamping, and this is
Speaker 1: a way to physically guide the growth and shape of
Speaker 1: the tree via physical constraints. On top of this, grafting
Speaker 1: is also used. Um as are that you can also
Speaker 1: do a certain amount of defoliation, you know, the removal
Speaker 1: of of leaves and then deadwood. Bonds Ie techniques involved
Speaker 1: the creation, shaping, and preservation of dead wood on a
Speaker 1: living bond's eye tree to enhance this sense of age.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, I I so, I've seen bonsai trees like this,
Speaker 1: I think. And there's a very particular aesthetic that is
Speaker 1: that actually exists in the natural world, not just in
Speaker 1: in human horticulture that that is mimicking that I find
Speaker 1: very beautiful. I think a lot of other people do too,
Speaker 1: and I wonder why exactly it is, but it's the Uh,
Speaker 1: it's the aesthetic you see in the natural growth of
Speaker 1: bristle cone pine trees, where they often have the appearance
Speaker 1: of a live tree growing on or within this ancient warped,
Speaker 1: twirling piece of dead wood. Do you know what I'm
Speaker 1: talking about? Yeah, yeah, I think I know what you're
Speaker 1: talking about. Can picture in my head. Yeah, And there
Speaker 1: is something just intrinsically attractive about it. I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's it doesn't apply to um animals, Like the idea
Speaker 1: of like a human coming up dressed in bones generally
Speaker 1: not as attractive. But but but this is this is
Speaker 1: bristle cone pines, by the way, are they're particularly known
Speaker 1: I think for for achieving tremendous ages, Like they get
Speaker 1: really really old. There are some of the oldest living organisms,
Speaker 1: and and they really do look like it because again, yeah,
Speaker 1: you can see like um, there will be parts of
Speaker 1: a tree that are producing foliage, so there's still green,
Speaker 1: they're still growing, you know, they're still producing new growth seasonally,
Speaker 1: I guess. But down below that it will just be
Speaker 1: what looks like a ten million year old skeleton that's
Speaker 1: got these like lollipop twirls of color in it or
Speaker 1: like a sorry, like a peppermint twist type of color,
Speaker 1: and the branches or these snaking witch fingers without any leaves.
Speaker 1: H it's very very cool. So if you're not familiar
Speaker 1: with bristle cone pines. Look them up. Now. Another thing
Speaker 1: I want to drive them about the bond's eyes again.
Speaker 1: The the upkeep and care of a bond's I are
Speaker 1: are in their their own way, like a delicate art form.
Speaker 1: I was reading a piece in the New York Times
Speaker 1: by Makiko in a way and Daniel Victor Um. Apparently
Speaker 1: New York Times is just prime reporting uh source for Bonsai. Uh.
Speaker 1: But they this is an article about a story that
Speaker 1: was making the rounds at the time. In um this
Speaker 1: was bonds I are like our children. Couple pleads for
Speaker 1: return of stolen trees. Uh. And this one had to
Speaker 1: do with a four year old bonds e that had
Speaker 1: been stolen that was worth an estimated ninety dollars uh.
Speaker 1: The theft was again covered by a number of different
Speaker 1: news sources at the time, Bonds I can fetch a
Speaker 1: hefty price on the black market. Sadly, I didn't run
Speaker 1: across any reporting about this tree being recovered. I mean
Speaker 1: maybe it did, and that just didn't make a snazzy
Speaker 1: news story for most sources. UM. But one of the
Speaker 1: things that they pointed out is that, like if you
Speaker 1: were to steal a m high value bonds I tree
Speaker 1: like this, if you didn't know how to care for it, Uh,
Speaker 1: if you didn't know the particular things you needed to do,
Speaker 1: it could die within a week, you know. So there's
Speaker 1: a there's a delicacy to these um these organisms as well.
Speaker 1: But I'm also interested in the statement of these people
Speaker 1: saying that the bonds are like our children, because it
Speaker 1: I mean, you can totally see how that would be
Speaker 1: the case, that it's not just like somebody stole any
Speaker 1: other high value item within a home. I don't know,
Speaker 1: you know, an expensive painting or something. It is in
Speaker 1: some ways like a child. I mean obviously not that
Speaker 1: you know, and it doesn't have a brain or anything,
Speaker 1: but it does require care. Well, I like the idea
Speaker 1: of comparing it to something like a painting, because yeah,
Speaker 1: painting certainly requires a certain amount of care and any
Speaker 1: key an occasionally occasionally restoration. But there is and but
Speaker 1: there is I guess when it comes to like the bonds,
Speaker 1: eye tree and the painting, like, yeah, there's probably a
Speaker 1: tipping point with the painting if it's degraded and it's
Speaker 1: not cared for, you know, a point past which you
Speaker 1: cannot be brought back in a meaningful way, but with
Speaker 1: a bonds eye tree, Like, there's definitely that point, you know,
Speaker 1: like there's no there's no gray area, there's a point
Speaker 1: where the tree is no longer alive and will not
Speaker 1: live again. And yeah, and it's ultimately it is a
Speaker 1: living thing. It is a it is a thing that
Speaker 1: is cared for, that is nurtured, and you see it
Speaker 1: growing and you know that you have a role in
Speaker 1: its growth. Well, I wonder how did all this get started?
Speaker 1: Like who first had the idea to grow tiny versions
Speaker 1: of adult shaped trees in pots? Yeah, the history is
Speaker 1: pretty fascinating. So in a broader sense and really broad sense,
Speaker 1: we can just say, okay, what how far back to
Speaker 1: ornamental gardens go? And it seems like they date back
Speaker 1: at least as far as c in ancient Egypt because
Speaker 1: we see them depicted in tomb paintings from that period. Uh.
Speaker 1: There are also some interesting connections to Babylonian and air
Speaker 1: Vedic traditions. Uh. So you know, it's probably one of
Speaker 1: the things that's ultimately lost in history because it basically
Speaker 1: comes down to all right, people people messing around with
Speaker 1: plants and people creating ceramics. Uh, And I guess not
Speaker 1: just ceramics, but also like you know, I guess you
Speaker 1: can make a wooden pot as well, obviously, but people
Speaker 1: messing around with materials, messing around with plants and getting
Speaker 1: to the point where they realize, oh, I can I
Speaker 1: can put this in a pot. I can take it
Speaker 1: with me, uh, you know, instead of just depending say
Speaker 1: on dried or maybe I might try and bring this
Speaker 1: plant with me as I travel somewhere else, bring it
Speaker 1: alive and uh and do something you know with it
Speaker 1: when I get there. I would not be surprised if
Speaker 1: that was tied into ancient beliefs about herbal medicine. Yeah,
Speaker 1: good point, And I think I think maybe that's where
Speaker 1: some of the air Vedic traditions also come into play.
Speaker 1: But the immediate predecessor to the bonsai practice in Japan
Speaker 1: takes us to China around the year one thousand CE.
Speaker 1: I've also seen a date of seven hundred CE. Uh.
Speaker 1: So there may be some disagreement about you know, when
Speaker 1: exactly we're looking at here, but uh, for instance, I
Speaker 1: was looking at a source on this by Jack doth.
Speaker 1: It often recognized as a Western authority on bonsai practices. Uh.
Speaker 1: He has a book titled Bonsai The Art of Living Sculpture,
Speaker 1: and he dates the beginnings of Bonsa i uh to
Speaker 1: the Han dynasty over two thousand years ago, or not
Speaker 1: the beginning of bonsai, but the beginning of this predecessor
Speaker 1: um he wrote. He writes the following in bond the
Speaker 1: Anzai Survival Manual. Quote. Legend has it that at one
Speaker 1: point an ancient Chinese emperor commissioned the construction in his
Speaker 1: courtyard of vast miniature landscapes, complete with mountains, lakes, and
Speaker 1: of course miniature trees. These landscapes were designed to represent
Speaker 1: all the parts of his empire, so in this way
Speaker 1: he could stand on his balcony and survey his entire domain. WHOA,
Speaker 1: and again that I like that story because it gets
Speaker 1: back to what we're talking about, like the the irresistible
Speaker 1: allure of the world at large made miniature. I absolutely
Speaker 1: see that, and you know it comes through in plenty
Speaker 1: of other ways too. I think, Uh, this is actually
Speaker 1: a primary motivator. I think for a lot of people
Speaker 1: who have model train hobbies. Not everyone, but I think
Speaker 1: a lot of people who are into model trains. It's
Speaker 1: not even so much about the train. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: part of it, but it's about it's about a driving
Speaker 1: excuse to create these miniature landscapes because the miniature landscapes
Speaker 1: are so appealing for some reason. I mean, I love them.
Speaker 1: I love dioramas, and um, I love like a good
Speaker 1: museum that has carefully painted dioramas. I know, you paint miniatures,
Speaker 1: so you have this appreciation. Sometimes I wonder if if
Speaker 1: some of the people who are into like the model
Speaker 1: train thing, or like or like miniature diorama recreations of
Speaker 1: historic battle scenes or whatever like that, are are it's
Speaker 1: basically the same impulse that drives uh, you know, people
Speaker 1: who would do D and D or tabletop miniatures, but
Speaker 1: for people who don't like magic and wizards. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think it's absolutely the case. Yeah, I mean you see
Speaker 1: it in wargaming because there's a lot of that that
Speaker 1: same energy that goes into creating the environments in trains.
Speaker 1: You see it in creating environments to have your little
Speaker 1: battles on. You see it in the Lego pastime among
Speaker 1: both children and adult fans of Legos, where they'll create
Speaker 1: whole little worlds. And that's that's part of it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And and indeed diorama creation can just be so incredible.
Speaker 1: I love a great diorama at at a museum. The
Speaker 1: the met has some of the bat I think it's
Speaker 1: the Met. Is it the met that has some really
Speaker 1: good ones? At any rate, I know I've seen some
Speaker 1: dioramas in in New York. But anyway, this particular Chinese
Speaker 1: predecessor to the bonsai this is that was the art
Speaker 1: of punsai. Uh. These were luxury items of the day
Speaker 1: and around roughly Buddhist monks brought the tradition to Japan,
Speaker 1: and is often the case, as is off the case
Speaker 1: in Japanese culture. They took an outside art form, they
Speaker 1: refined it, and they made it their own. As doth
Speaker 1: It points out, the main drivers here were the Japanese
Speaker 1: people's love of nature uh, but also increasingly in increasing
Speaker 1: artistic awareness, and this coupled with the minimalist teachings of
Speaker 1: Zen Buddhism. So all of this gets reflected uh in
Speaker 1: it uh and so so yeah, as part of the
Speaker 1: Zen Buddhism movement of the time, it takes root in
Speaker 1: Japanese culture and becomes you know, not only the this
Speaker 1: sort of you know, meditative pastime, that is associated again
Speaker 1: with Zin Buddhism, but also it becomes the ultimate pastime
Speaker 1: of the upper classes. Like it is this the uh
Speaker 1: you know, this is a luxury item to have and
Speaker 1: to care for and to just keep as a symbol
Speaker 1: of of who you are and where you are in society.
Speaker 1: According to Robert J. Barron, writing for Bonzai Empire dot
Speaker 1: com quote finding beauty and severe austerity, Zen monks with
Speaker 1: less land forms as a model developed their tree landscapes
Speaker 1: along certain lines so that a single tree in a
Speaker 1: pot could represent the universe. So a connection here again
Speaker 1: is made between the tree and miniature, and not just
Speaker 1: the world at large, but the universe at what led large,
Speaker 1: you know, not just the world as a physical thing,
Speaker 1: but also the world as as far as our you know,
Speaker 1: perceptions of self and reality and the soul are concerned. Um.
Speaker 1: A connection is also frequently made between the traditions of
Speaker 1: caring for the plant and meditation. And during the mid
Speaker 1: nineteenth century, as Japan began to make contact with the
Speaker 1: outside world again in major ways, the bonds ie tradition
Speaker 1: began to spread as well. And so yeah, now you
Speaker 1: can find bonds i literally all over the world. That's
Speaker 1: interesting to see, especially for certain kinds of meditation, you know,
Speaker 1: the kind of meditation that are focused on the control
Speaker 1: of attention, for example, you know, mindfulness types of meditation.
Speaker 1: What they have in common, it seems to me, is
Speaker 1: that there is this never ending balance between sort of
Speaker 1: the the natural growing chaos of life, which is sort
Speaker 1: of like your wandering attention as a as a meditator,
Speaker 1: or the growth of a plant in a pot, versus
Speaker 1: like all of these sort of like methods of shaping.
Speaker 1: You know, you could kind of think of meditation in
Speaker 1: one way as a as a shaping of the attention
Speaker 1: that naturally wants to grow in one way or another,
Speaker 1: but you're just sort of like pruning it down and
Speaker 1: and making it harmonious. Yeah. I can't help but to
Speaker 1: compare it, first of all, to creating, say like a
Speaker 1: modal tank. You know, you put a lot of care
Speaker 1: into creating that tank, but then once it's done, you
Speaker 1: can basically put it on a shelf. Yeah, you might
Speaker 1: have to dust it off from time to time, maybe
Speaker 1: you'll go back and tweak something on it, but it's
Speaker 1: essentially complete. Uh. And then I think of of, say
Speaker 1: having a you know, an actual child. You know, like
Speaker 1: that that is a case where you you're continually help
Speaker 1: helping this child to grow, but but in a way
Speaker 1: that eventually that child is going to leave you. That
Speaker 1: child is going to go on and have this this
Speaker 1: larger life and is no longer going to be a
Speaker 1: part of your household. The bonds Eye tree is uh,
Speaker 1: he is always going to be there, you know, unless
Speaker 1: of course, you you you know, you you give it
Speaker 1: to somebody else, pass into the care of another, or
Speaker 1: or of course ultimately have to make plans for it
Speaker 1: to continue living after you have died. But you were,
Speaker 1: you were keeping it in this constrained, a dwarf environment,
Speaker 1: you know, like you wouldn't want to have you wouldn't
Speaker 1: want to have a Bond's eye child, you know that
Speaker 1: that would be that would be monstrous. But the Bonds
Speaker 1: Eye tree different matter. I don't know. Some people do
Speaker 1: sort of prune and wire their children. Well you do
Speaker 1: want to wire your children, yeah, you want to. You
Speaker 1: want to to to to manipulate their development as much
Speaker 1: as possible towards um you know, the positive models of being.
Speaker 1: But then you know, eventually you want to, you know,
Speaker 1: let him out of the Greenhouse. I don't know, it's
Speaker 1: not a perfect metaphor for rearing a child, but at
Speaker 1: any rate, I I do see like so much of
Speaker 1: the Bonds that is about about control, but not just
Speaker 1: control for control's sake, but control for artistic purposes. So um, yeah,
Speaker 1: you wouldn't want to take that approach to creating a
Speaker 1: child or to growing a child, etcetera. But then again,
Speaker 1: also yeah, it doesn't apply the same sort of model
Speaker 1: doesn't apply to other forms of art where you do
Speaker 1: reach some level of completion. Um if I mean even
Speaker 1: if you were saying, if you were to compare it
Speaker 1: to say, writing, um, an epic poem, you know, and
Speaker 1: perhaps it's an epic poem you work on your entire life,
Speaker 1: and then towards the end of your life, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: you're still tinkering with it. Maybe you never get quite finished.
Speaker 1: But then does that pass on to another person to
Speaker 1: get finished and then onto another like generally you're only
Speaker 1: going to see, like maybe what a couple of generations
Speaker 1: of tinkering with a particular work of literature. Well, this
Speaker 1: is very interesting and how it ties into epic poetry
Speaker 1: in particular, because it depends on which epic poem you're
Speaker 1: talking about. So if it's the a need, you could
Speaker 1: just have Virgial the author sits down to write the
Speaker 1: epic poem and they you know, Virgil can decide when
Speaker 1: he's done tinkering on it mainly. But um, if it
Speaker 1: is something like the Odyssey or the Iliad that grows
Speaker 1: out of an oral tradition in which every telling of
Speaker 1: the tale was different originally, So like the written versions
Speaker 1: that we have of the Iliad and the Odyssey are
Speaker 1: very is it's extremely unlikely that that was in any
Speaker 1: way a fixed form of the poem from antiquity. It's
Speaker 1: going to be something that grow out of an oral
Speaker 1: storytelling tradition that that had infinite different variations and was
Speaker 1: told by different tellers, and at some point some version
Speaker 1: of it got written down. Now that's a great point. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: and in a way you could compare the Bond's Eye
Speaker 1: rather favorably to the creation of a myth and a legend,
Speaker 1: you know, because you know, beyond the mere epic poem,
Speaker 1: the Iliot is something that is continually retold time and
Speaker 1: time again. It continues to live in different forms. We're
Speaker 1: we're perpetually trimming it and caring for it, um, letting
Speaker 1: it grow out a bit, and maybe braining it back in.
Speaker 1: And we see this with other forms as well. I mean,
Speaker 1: you could even make an argument for something like Star
Speaker 1: Wars being the case. You know, like for a while
Speaker 1: it was George Lucas's bonds eye and uh, and then
Speaker 1: in different phases it has been passed on to other
Speaker 1: people to care for and if it remains popular, this
Speaker 1: will continue for centuries even now. To come back to
Speaker 1: just a little bit here at the end to two science,
Speaker 1: I do want to point to a scientific paper that
Speaker 1: I came across, and it deals with the science of
Speaker 1: root pruning. So this is pretty neat. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna get super into the details of the study,
Speaker 1: but it does make some great points just about uh,
Speaker 1: the wondrous um qualities of a plant's roots. So, plant
Speaker 1: roots are naturally robust and regenerative since they're a vital
Speaker 1: they're they're vital for water and nutrient absorption. They have
Speaker 1: to be able to bounce back from injury really well,
Speaker 1: so they have impressive plasticity, which also helps them adapt
Speaker 1: to changing environmental circumstances such as drought. And this plasticity
Speaker 1: is harnessed in root pruning uh in bonsai as a
Speaker 1: way to control size and vigor and industry. Interestingly enough,
Speaker 1: there was a seventeen study from Hokkaido University that looked
Speaker 1: at the molecular mechanism behind root regeneration to figure out
Speaker 1: exactly what's going on, because prior to this there was
Speaker 1: you know, there was definitely some strong theories, but the
Speaker 1: exact molecular mechanism was largely unknown. That study, published in
Speaker 1: Plant and Sell Physiology, identified for the first time that
Speaker 1: YUCA nine, one of the eleven Yucca genes involved in
Speaker 1: oxen synthesis, plays a primary role in roots system regeneration. So,
Speaker 1: oxen is a plant hormone which causes the elongation of
Speaker 1: cells and shoots and is and is involved in regulating
Speaker 1: plant growth. Now, to be clear, this particular study didn't
Speaker 1: use Bond's eye trees, but they were part of the
Speaker 1: title and even the cover art for this edition of
Speaker 1: Plant and Sell Physiology has this beautiful photograph of a
Speaker 1: Bond's eye on the cover. Okay, so root regeneration is
Speaker 1: related to this gene that stimulates the production of this
Speaker 1: hormone that causes cells to elongate. Um. And the elongation
Speaker 1: of plant cells, by the way, is something that's very interesting. Uh,
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people don't appreciate how
Speaker 1: much that comes in, even in things as mundane as cooking.
Speaker 1: You know, when we think about body cells, we think
Speaker 1: about cells that are I don't know, I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't know what's the best way to think of them
Speaker 1: in a three dimensional sense, but in the microscope slide
Speaker 1: since you think of them is basically like round or
Speaker 1: kind of like a little square fried egg. Right. Plant
Speaker 1: cells can be very elongated. And this is one reason
Speaker 1: that if say you're cutting an onion, uh, the direction
Speaker 1: along which you cut the onion can make a big
Speaker 1: difference in how much of the compounds that induced tears
Speaker 1: are released when you're cutting the onions. So if you're
Speaker 1: slicing an onion cross wise, UM, so you're going you know,
Speaker 1: you're creating the rings. You tend to shear a lot
Speaker 1: more cells because the cells are elongated from poll to
Speaker 1: pull along the onion. So you're cutting more cells open,
Speaker 1: releasing more of that juice. It's gonna make you cry more.
Speaker 1: If you turn the onion around and you cut it
Speaker 1: in the pole to pole direction, you're cutting parallel to
Speaker 1: the elongated cells instead of across them. Fewer cells are ruptured,
Speaker 1: less juice is released, and there's less crying. I don't
Speaker 1: really have a problem crying while cutting onions, but I
Speaker 1: definitely need to watch a video on cutting onions because
Speaker 1: I know I'm doing it very incorrectly. I'm very slapdash
Speaker 1: with my onion cutting, and this has been pointed out before.
Speaker 1: I'll give you a trainer someday. Okay, I do a
Speaker 1: lot of onion cutting. I wonder how many onions I've
Speaker 1: cut up in my life, Like thousands? Yeah? Which which
Speaker 1: color onion do you think you've cut the most off? Oh?
Speaker 1: I guess regular yellow onions probably? Yeah, but do them all?
Speaker 1: I like the purple onions, red onions, oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: those are really good for pickling. You'll ever make pickled
Speaker 1: onions at home? Um? We have maybe have made some
Speaker 1: like fridge pickles or sort of like I don't know,
Speaker 1: bold pickles for recipes. I don't know what you call
Speaker 1: that when you sort of you pickle something for an
Speaker 1: hour or less. Yeah, not like full lacto fermentation, yeah,
Speaker 1: just simple like vinegar pickling. Um. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's great.
Speaker 1: One of the one of the most versatile things you
Speaker 1: can have in your kitchen is just just a nice
Speaker 1: container of pickled onions. And red onions are great for that.
Speaker 1: So you just make like a brine solutions like half water,
Speaker 1: half vinegar, add some salt sugar if you want it,
Speaker 1: and then pour boil that, pour it over some sliced
Speaker 1: red onions and then put that on everything. All right, Well,
Speaker 1: well there you haven't. I feel like we covered a
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of ground in this episode, and
Speaker 1: obviously we'd love to hear from everybody out there about
Speaker 1: bonsai trees specifically, but also uh, dwarf trees in the
Speaker 1: strange Fluoridian wilderness, onion cutting uh uh you know, all
Speaker 1: of it is on the table. But yes, specifically, if
Speaker 1: anybody out there has expertise with bonsai trees or uh
Speaker 1: you know it has more more experience with them, we'd
Speaker 1: love to hear from you. Uh, so please ride in
Speaker 1: and uh and tell us all about it. Um. And
Speaker 1: I do want to just yea remind everybody when when
Speaker 1: it becomes safe to do so, I do recommend going
Speaker 1: out and seeing some Bond's eyes in real life. You know,
Speaker 1: if uh again, I saw them when I was in
Speaker 1: I think I saw some of the San Diego Zoo,
Speaker 1: and I saw some in the San Francisco somewhere, maybe
Speaker 1: a botanical garden there. But they're all over, and wherever
Speaker 1: you live, there's bound to be some place that will
Speaker 1: be offering you a chance to view them in the
Speaker 1: near future. In the meantime, if you would like to
Speaker 1: check out other episodes of Stuff to Blow Your Mind,
Speaker 1: you'll find the Stuff to Blow your Mind podcast feed
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts and where ever that happens
Speaker 1: to be. We just asked you rate, review, and subscribe.
Speaker 1: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Seth
Speaker 1: Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get in touch
Speaker 1: with us with feedback on this episode or any other,
Speaker 1: to suggest a topic for the future, or just to
Speaker 1: say hi, you can email us at contact at stuff
Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your
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