WEBVTT - From the Vault: The Bonsai Tree 0:00:05.720 --> 0:00:08.600 Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:11.879 is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday. 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:15.200 Time for a vault episode. This is about the Bond 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:21.200 Side Tree. It originally published January. Yeah, that's right. I 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:24.080 think there's also some discussion in here about the TV 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:30.520 show Cobra Kai Oki Doki. Welcome to Stuff to Blow 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:39.880 Your Mind, production of My Heart Radio. Hey you welcome 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:41.720 to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name is Robert 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:45.000 Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and today we're gonna be 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:48.639 talking about Bond Side Now, Brob, I hope you don't 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:51.240 mind if I share a bit of trivia about you 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:53.279 with the listeners. I don't know if you've ever made 0:00:53.280 --> 0:00:56.240 clear on this show before, but you are a very 0:00:56.280 --> 0:01:00.520 caring plant keeper. You've for a long time I am 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:04.120 at work, had a wonderful little flower on your desk, 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:06.680 and often, like if you're out of town, you would 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:08.759 ask me to drop an ice cube on it, which 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:12.399 I think I always remembered to do whenever you asked me. Um, 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:16.160 but but yeah, I appreciate the care and tenderness you 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:19.840 show for the plant kingdom. Well, Um, I appreciate that, Joe. 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:21.920 I guess you could also say I just I managed 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:25.200 not to kill an orchid, uh that that I was 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:29.679 charged with. Um it was my my father in law's orchid. 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:31.800 And yeah, I say so. I lived on my desk 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:33.880 at work there, and it would have an ice cube 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:35.920 every now and then to keep it hydrated. And I 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:40.400 would ask you or sometimes a uh Scott who sat 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:43.800 next to me, to to do it. Um, And uh, yeah, 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:45.520 I managed not to kill it. And there is something 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:47.720 kind of satisfying about having this kind of like long 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:51.720 term relationship with a plant. This this nurturing, you know, 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:54.200 even if it's very slight nurturing and not like a 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:58.120 you know, not a real high maintenance plant. Um. You know, 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:00.720 it seems like a pretty sturdy speed sees that I 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:03.560 had grown there and now it's growing in my bathroom, 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:07.000 uh since I'm not in office anymore. But yeah, it's 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:10.160 it is very very satisfying to to be involved in 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:12.560 a in a nurturing relationship with a plant like that, 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:17.200 just as it is so frustrating and potentially depressing to 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:20.440 have the opposite relationship with the plant. You know, I 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:22.200 think we've all had that as well, where like, oh 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:25.160 my gosh, I cannot keep this thing alive, this plant 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:28.640 just wants to die or I am just horrible at it. Now. 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:31.359 One thing you may not have considered, and I apologize 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:33.680 if this is an overly intimate thought, but whenever you 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:35.480 have a plant growing in a bathroom, and we have 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:38.640 plants growing in our bathrooms, you have to assume that 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:41.680 they are making their cells as they continue to photosynthesize 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:44.079 from the lights over the sink. They are making their 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:48.120 cells out of some percentage of carbon that comes out 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:52.799 of your like toilet emissions and so forth, probably, right, 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:55.880 I guess. So, I mean that's I mean, that's I 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:58.120 guess that's good. Right, You're you're exposing them to to 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:01.200 more of the natural world even though they're an indoor plant. Yeah, 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:03.919 I never thought about that before. Um well, I mean, 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:07.240 so if it's mainly carbon dioxide, I assume it's probably 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:10.040 more what you're breathing out. But I don't know. Farts 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:13.240 probably have some CO two content, right I guess. But 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:15.640 then again, if it's if it's farts the plants want, 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:19.680 then they really want a fully packed office environment again, right, 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:23.760 I mean, I mean there's I can't possibly offer it 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:26.840 the the you know, the kind of volume it was 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:30.560 probably accustomed to. Well, so I'm excited to talk about 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:33.760 bondside today. I have never myself taken care of a 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:38.120 bonsai tree. I have, uh, I have tried to. I 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:40.040 guess I don't know if this was this would count. 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:42.840 I have tried to take care of a sort of 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:44.800 potted tree of sorts. I don't know if it would 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:47.720 actually count as bonsai. But I failed. I just I 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:51.120 killed it. And that's why I'm partially envious of of 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:53.880 the dedicated and regular care that you always showed to 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:57.640 your orchid. Well, I would say that, you know, well, whatever, 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:01.000 however you classify that care, Bonds I certainly on a 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:03.520 on an entirely different level. It is up on the 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:07.640 top of the mountain. We're talking about the pinnacle of 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:10.400 of caring for a plant, and uh, yeah, this is 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:12.200 this is one. This is an episode I've wanted to 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:15.480 do for a while. I think my experience with Bonds 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:17.200 I have never owned a bonds I or cared for 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:19.640 a bonsai, but my experience with him with them is 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:21.640 probably similar to a lot of people's out there. My 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:25.880 first exposure was almost certainly watching the karate kid as 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:29.120 a child. Uh, and seeing that, oh Mr Miyagi has 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:32.120 has bonsai plants, those are neat uh. And then maybe 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:33.560 I don't know, maybe they popped up on a reading 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:36.719 rainbow or something at some point I don't recall. But 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:39.400 then much much later, uh, I you know, I was, 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:42.120 I was traveling and I was visiting, but believe one 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:44.440 place in San Francisco, in another place in San Diego 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:48.000 where I got to see a multitude of bonsai plants, 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:51.560 uh with you know, identification information as well as age. 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:55.400 And it was just really amazing to behold these things, 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:59.719 these these ancient trees that that you feel should be 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:02.120 gi panic, but they are in miniature and they are alive, 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:06.000 and they are just meticulously cared for and crafted. Uh. 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:08.880 And yeah there's this there's this kind of magical aura 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:11.120 to them and this and this age, this kind of 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:15.000 condensed age, you know. Um, so they're they're really special 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:17.800 to just behold. And then when you read a little 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:20.599 bit about caring for them, Yeah, it also Uh that 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:22.960 just adds to your level of appreciation when you read 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:25.680 about the culture involved in it. And uh. And so yeah, 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:27.320 I wanted to do an episode on this for a while, 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:29.040 and then I've kind of forgotten about it. I think 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:31.839 we pitched it as part of a deal with a UM, 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:34.240 a Japanese automobile company that was gonna advertise for this, 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:37.360 and and then that didn't happen. I forgot about it. 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:39.880 But then I ended up watching Cobra Kai on Netflix, 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:42.920 which also has the Bonsai trees in it, and uh, 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:46.040 and I was reminded, Oh, yeah, we we should do 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:49.760 a bonsaie episode. Got bonds I bouncing around in the brain. Okay, 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:52.160 so maybe you can answer a question that I'm sure 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:55.120 a lot of people are wondering, What is it? What 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:58.360 makes the strict definition of a Bondsai tree? What makes 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:03.680 a bonds I tree different than any potted plant. Well, um, 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:06.279 based on my understanding of it, I would say that 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:08.440 the big thing to do is you sort of have 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:11.679 to back up and think about it not just as 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:14.840 caring for a tree and growing for a tree and 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:18.720 nurturing a tree, but it's also just it's also steeped 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:21.120 in just like the basics of art and design, you know, 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:23.479 because art in design, you know, very often sent around 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:26.520 the manipulation of the natural world or natural resources into 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:30.880 some form that is esthetically pleasing and perhaps even philosophical 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:34.160 or theologically engaging as well. You know, we take stone 0:06:34.200 --> 0:06:36.520 and we craft into the likeness of a human or 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:39.440 some sort of humanoid figure of myth or legend. Trees 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:41.719 are cut down in hun and then the raw material 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:44.359 is carved into all manner of forms and functions. But 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:47.400 as for the control of living plants, that brings us, 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:50.839 of course to agriculture and cultivation. Um and and human 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:53.000 works are pretty grand in this realm as well. I mean, 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:56.159 you look at what we have done for generations and 0:06:56.200 --> 0:07:00.400 generations with agriculture and cultivation. But the bonds depening bonds 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:04.240 eye tree. It is the pinnacle of plant cultivation. Uh 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:07.680 And and I think that Brad Dunning described this exceptionally 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:10.520 well for the New York Times back in two thousand two. 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:13.680 Uh they wrote, quote, but it's more than just an 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:15.880 issue of control, simple for it simply for the sake 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:19.440 of control. As nature spins wildly downward, there is an 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:24.360 example of man controlling, conquering, nurturing, and respecting nature on 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:30.040 an extremely uh reverential level. By constantly thwarting the growth 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:33.520 of new saplings. The Bonsai gardener through pinching cutting and 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:37.120 splitting new growth forces the tree's branches to strain in 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:41.160 any direction to succeed. With additional help from restraining wires, 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:45.880 the tree is manipulated into prematurely aged shape over time. 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:49.680 Sometimes a lot of time. Prize specimens can be several 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:54.200 hundred years old. So bonds is not just a potted plant, 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:57.360 but it's a tree that's grown in a confined environment 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:01.920 with this spirit of artistic shaping. Yes, yeah, and uh 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:04.520 and and along and you know, certain traditional like you 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:06.760 get into like what kind of pot is used, etcetera. 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:10.040 And then it of also noted what species is used. Uh, 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:13.640 you know, as as is often the case with with 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:17.760 this particularly you know, Japanese artistry, there are a lot 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:21.760 of very particular details in the cultivation and it you know, 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:23.760 it comes down to things like what are their traditional 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:27.080 shears that one should use, what are the best shears? Uh, 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:30.520 that sort of thing. Um. Another thing that's interesting about 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:33.400 bonsai trees to me, and I think this comes through 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:37.679 through all this pruning and shaping and everything, is that, Um, 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:41.400 a bonsai tree does not just look like a sapling 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:45.840 or like a young tree. There is a particular style 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:49.800 of miniaturization that comes about through the long sustained care 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:52.880 of this this small plant, which is that it is 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:56.520 a tiny version of a tree that looks like a 0:08:56.679 --> 0:09:00.120 shrunken adult version of the same tree, a round other 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:03.520 than just a sapling or young growth. Does that make sense? Yeah? 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:07.240 And exactly that they're like this ancient dwarf and uh 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:10.360 and it and it a lot of the reasons that 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:12.760 this is attractive to us. I feel like they almost 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:17.640 deny or that they defy rather um, you know, easy explanation. 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:21.120 You know, there's something obviously about the world at large 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:23.520 made small that we're always fascinated. And you know, we 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:28.360 love miniatures, be it, you know, miniature miniature soldiers, miniature tanks, 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:32.320 miniature cities, maps, etcetera. Uh. And in fact, one of 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:34.719 the the the origin stories for the Bonsai trees that 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:36.320 will touch on has to do with that, like the 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:38.720 idea of like make make the world at large small 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:41.720 enough for me to behold it. Uh. But then also 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:45.680 there is something too about like the ancient made small 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:48.240 like it it reminds me of so many myths of 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:51.280 like tiny little old men, you know, that have some 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:55.520 sort of magical powers, you know, little folks. Yeah. Yeah, 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:57.760 And there's something of the of the fairy world, you know, 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:02.719 in that that you know, non culturally distinct manner to 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:07.559 the bonds eye tree. Now, um, there are of course 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:11.839 true bonds eyes created in accordance with the Japanese tradition. Uh. 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:14.120 And there are various tears that follow that fall below 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:17.240 the standard, with one of the most notorious being the 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:20.160 sort of bonds eye that sometimes is sold at malls, 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:23.800 grocery stores and street fairs. And these, according to Stephen 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:26.199 Or in New York Times Garden Q and A in 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:28.840 two thousand nine, are a curse upon the name of 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:32.520 bonds ie. Uh. These are typically young rooted juniper tree 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:35.920 cuttings in a decorative pot. Uh. So not true bonds eyes. 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:38.160 Will get into what true bonds I really consists of 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:40.360 in a bit. But people will buy these, they think 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:42.160 they have a bonds eye. It looks neat, they bring 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:44.040 it home, and then they're devastated when it dies in 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:47.120 a few months. So not a not an ancient dwarf 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:49.600 tree or something that will become an ancient dwarf tree, 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:52.440 but just a short lived trick. And this made me 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:55.199 think of Cobra Kai actually because in the TV show 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:58.959 UM Ralph Macchio's character, uh, you know from the first film, 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:01.400 is now a a car dealer and he has a 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:04.160 car dealers shop, and part of his whole gimmick in 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:06.400 the show is when you buy a car, you also 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:09.559 get this little bonds eye plant that he prepares. And 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:11.880 I guess it's supposed to you know, he's he's very 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:15.200 meticulous character and he's all into the tradition, So I 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:17.240 guess it's supposed to be the case that these are 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:20.119 legitimate bonds eye trees that he's handing out to customers. 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:26.120 But it makes me wonder how many. I mean, yeah, 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:29.160 he sells nice cars, but I wonder it does the 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:32.199 cynical side of me um leaning into sort of the 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:34.280 sort of the cynical notes to that character in that show, 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:35.760 is like, I wonder if these are just the cheap 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:39.000 roadside bonds eyes that he's handing out. You know, that 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:41.920 would be very car dealery. But you can always blame 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:44.439 user error, right, You can always just say like, I 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:46.880 must not have taken care of it, right, Yeah, better 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:49.959 bring it back into the shop. We'll apply that undercoating 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:55.040 the true code. Yeah, you're gonna want that true code 0:11:55.080 --> 0:12:01.800 on your bonds. Eye. Yeah. Uh, it's a fun show. Um. 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:04.640 Well yeah, let's well, let's keep going talking about bonds eyes. Then. 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:07.240 So at the heart of the bonsai practice is just 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:10.920 pure artistic manipulation of the tree's growth. Trees, as you've 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:14.440 probably notice, everyone grow in accordance to their genes, but 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:17.680 also in accordance to their surroundings. So this means the 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:21.440 dictates of water, soil, and sun, various other limiting factors 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:24.439 in their immediate surroundings as well, such as other trees, 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:29.000 human structures, power lines. Uh. You know, as I think 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:31.440 we all can attest to, you can you can see 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:33.960 some pretty wonky trees out in the world, out in 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:37.760 the forest in urban environments, you know, where they do 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:40.240 the best they can with the with the constraints that 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:45.079 are there. Um. And indeed they can produce natural examples 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:48.000 of what you can at least roughly classify as a 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:51.559 bonsai tree. For instance, if you were to travel down 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:56.160 to a place called Tate's Hell and uh, Tate's Hell 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:59.679 State Forest near Tallahassee, Florida, and I have to say 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:01.559 I have driven through it. I can't say I've actually 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:04.199 visited that. I did drive through it. Uh, there there 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:07.720 is a forest apparently of miniature cypress trees hundreds of 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:12.640 years old, covering acres and none more than fifteen feet tall. Which, granted, 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:14.679 that's far bigger than what you might think of as 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:17.120 the bonds I tree, a true bonds I tree, um. 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:20.080 But bear in mind that cypress trees of this variety 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:23.320 and age can reach heights of a hundred and fifty feet. Yes, 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:26.760 old cypress trees can can be towering, and so there 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:30.920 are special conditions at work that keep this ancient forest 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:32.840 as short as it is. I was reading that most 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:36.280 of these trees are between um like six and fifteen 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:38.480 feet at maturity. I think a lot of them around 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:42.000 ten feet or so. Uh, and it's very strange looking. 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:44.720 I found one picture that's like an aerial shot of 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:49.679 this dwarf cypress forest that is surrounded by many other trees. 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:51.839 I think the story goes that at some point there 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:54.400 was a company that was harvesting a lot of the 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:56.679 trees from the area. I think maybe for logging or 0:13:56.720 --> 0:13:59.600 maybe to clear land for something. But um, but when 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:03.240 they the dwarf cypress forests, they realized that that they 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:06.720 that this was something unusual and worth preserving, so they 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:09.880 they stopped a lot of their their shaping of the 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:11.480 land at the edge of this thing, and it did 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:13.720 end up getting preserved when the state bought it and 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:17.360 turned it into a state forest. But a sidebar on 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:20.440 Tate's Hell, because I had to know what was up 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:22.880 with that name, and I looked into it, and I 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:28.160 actually was rewarded with some very excellent Florida swamp lore. Alright, 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:30.920 let's have it. Well, So I was reading about it 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:35.000 in this book called Florida Lore by Karen Schnuir Neil 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:39.360 published in tween, and she points out, first of all, 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:42.480 there is a song by the old Florida folk singer 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:45.960 Will McLean about tates Hell, and it it tells the 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:49.400 same story as the legend that I'm about to explain. 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:52.360 But it's also one of those old style folk songs 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:55.200 that starts with a section that is not singing, but 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:57.320 it's kind of rapping, I don't know exactly what you 0:14:57.400 --> 0:15:02.040 call it, like fast rhythmic rhyming talking before the tune 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:05.680 kicks in where he says, like, listen, good people to 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:07.680 a story I'll tell of a great swamp in Florida 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:10.600 place called Tate's Hell. Yeah, yeah, it's sort of like 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:13.520 the pre folk song ramble. Sometimes I guess it rhymes, 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:17.080 oftentimes it does not, but you hear it from from 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:19.440 a number of practitioners of the craft. I know phil 0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:20.760 Oaks would do it a lot, you know, where he's 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:22.240 kind of working up. He's like, all right, I listening 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:24.160 this tune and I got a little and sometimes it's 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:25.920 even like a bit. It's almost like a little comedy 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:29.280 bit and I guess, I guess off, yeah, yeah, and 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:31.880 I guess that's what uh oh, what's their name? Is 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:33.680 kind of leaned into this a lot and their act. 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:39.320 Uh the famous folk comedy duo Oh, I can't think 0:15:39.320 --> 0:15:42.080 of their names offhand. Um, I don't know. I don't 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:43.480 know who one of them is, Bob, one of them 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:47.520 has a beard, soft spoken Garfunkel and notes no it's 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:49.640 not Garfunkle notes though, I think they probably have like 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:52.480 more of a modern version of this, and it's it's 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:55.920 not the Flight of the Concords. Those are the two 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:58.320 folk comedy duos I know. These are the one They 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:02.760 were on TV all the time. Um oh man um 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.680 Smothers Brothers, the Smothers brothers. I don't know why I was. 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:09.600 I was trying. Yeah, Well, will McLean tells us that 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:12.240 Tate's Hell is a place where the bull gators beller 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:14.640 and the panthers squall. Now, this is a place that 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:18.560 should be shunned by all. And so the legend goes 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:20.960 like this, But this is the version that I was 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:23.680 reading in the book by um by Neil, not by 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:27.160 not in will McLean's song, though they're similar. The legend 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:31.200 goes that in the year eighteen there was a homesteader 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:34.760 named CB Tate who had staked a claim for a 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:37.320 ranch in the Panhandle of Florida. And that's where Tate's 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:40.120 Hell is. It's up in the Panhandle. It's uh, I 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:44.080 think it's near Wacola Springs, isn't it. Um Perhaps, I mean, 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:47.520 certainly I've been to Wacola or Waccola. I'm not sure 0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:50.880 exactly what the preferred pronunciation there is. Uh. Yeah, I've 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:54.040 been there, but I guess I don't remember how I 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:55.840 even came through Tate's Hell. It was just we were 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:57.960 on the way to somewhere else and we had to 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:00.400 pass through it. Well, it's near a place the is 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:04.720 now called Sumatra, Florida. It's an unincorporated community about thirty 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:07.320 miles from the city of Carabelle. And the context for 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:10.040 this is that there was the Homestead Act of eighteen 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:13.719 sixty two, which meant that settlers could get a grant 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:16.560 of supposedly free land from the government if they would 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:18.879 agree to stay there and develop it for five years. 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:22.600 And cbtit is one of these homesteaders. So he's got 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:24.920 a he's got a ranch or a farm that he's 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:27.919 trying to run, and one morning he discovers that a 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:31.280 panther has mauled several of his cows. So he sets 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:33.280 off in the forest with his hunting dogs and the 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:36.200 implements of death, as Will McLean says, an old long 0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:39.760 tom shotgun and a sharp barlow knife. That panther would 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:43.280 sure have the chase of his life. And so Tate's 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:45.400 dogs they get the scent on the panther and they 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:48.600 take off after it, but Tate himself falls behind and 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:52.240 he gets separated from his hunting dogs. Unfortunately, as we've 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:55.040 discussed in the podcast last October, when there is no 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:58.840 visible landmark to navigate by, it's surprisingly easy to get 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:01.679 lost in the woods, and that appears to be what 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:04.960 happens here. He's wandering in the swampy forest and he 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:07.399 gets lost and at some point he gets bitten by 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:10.880 a snake and he loses his gun. And to read 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:14.320 from Karen schnurneil here quote, for seven days and nights 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:18.000 he roamed the ancient trees in ominous swampland, more often 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:20.920 than not, dazed with hunger and heat, forced to live 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:24.359 on nothing but roots and muddy water. To make matters worse, 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:27.639 the mosquitoes swarmed around him until every inch of his 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:33.240 body was bitten. That's worse than the snake bite to me. Yeah. Uh. 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:35.639 And the story says that over the course of the 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:38.200 week that he was lost, his hair turned white. But 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:41.080 then after seven days, just when he was convinced he 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:43.320 was going to die, Tate ran into a couple of 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:46.080 a couple of hunters from Carabelle, and they asked him 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:47.760 who are you and where do you come from? And 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:49.960 he says, my name is CB Tate, and I come 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:54.000 from Hell. Probably not exactly true, but it is a 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:57.560 good story. But anyway, if the story were true, it's 0:18:57.600 --> 0:19:01.159 possible that many of the cypress trees that are still 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:03.600 no more than ten or fifteen feet tall today in 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:06.920 the cypress forest of Tate's Hell would have been there 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:09.960 to watch Cbta get snake bit, you know, a middle 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:12.359 of the bull gator bellers. Because again a lot of 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:15.000 these these trees are are quite old there, you know, 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:17.840 hundreds of years old, even though they're still so small. 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:20.480 And I was reading a post about the dwarf cypress 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:23.600 forest on the blog of a local conservation organization called 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:26.840 the Appalachicola River Keeper, and the author of this blog 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:30.840 post writes that quote, these dwarf pond cypress trees may 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:34.000 have become stunted due to a hard layer of clay 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:37.679 that prevents roots from growing deeper, similar to planting a 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:41.480 tree in a bond said pot. So that's one possibility. 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:45.199 Another they go on. Also, the soil is low and nutrients, 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:48.639 as evidenced by the carnivorous plants in the area. You 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:51.920 can also find dwarf cypress trees near the picture plant 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:56.280 Boggs north of Sumatra, so there may be some correlation. Now, 0:19:56.320 --> 0:20:00.080 remember we've discussed carnivorous plants on the show before. The 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:03.600 reason that carnivorous plants eat insects, or at least most 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:06.480 carnivorous plants, I would assume all uh, the reason they 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:09.919 eat insects is not the same as the main reason 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:12.600 that we would eat plants or animals. You know, we 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:15.159 need to eat things to get you know, protein and energy. 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:19.080 Plants photosynthesized sunlight to get the energy they need to live. 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:23.880 So carnivorous plants eat for specific nutrients that are lacking 0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:27.840 in barren and often swampy soil. What other plants would 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:32.520 get from the soil around them, carnivorous plants get from insects. 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:36.560 And in human terms, when plants eat an insect there 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:38.840 it's not like devouring a loaf of bread. It's like 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:42.240 they're taking their vitamins. So, according to this source, at 0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:46.080 least that same type of nutrient poor soil could be 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:49.480 one thing preventing the cypress trees from growing taller. Or 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:52.600 it could be a hard layer of sediment that blocks 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:55.119 root growth, which in turn shapes the body of the 0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:57.920 tree as a whole, which is very much what happens 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:02.399 when you plant a tree in a pot. And this 0:21:02.480 --> 0:21:04.720 also ties into something else interesting that I was reading 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:06.240 that that I guess I'll come back to in a 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:10.960 few minutes. But yeah, so bonsai trees are there, their 0:21:11.040 --> 0:21:13.800