1
00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,600
Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name

2
00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:11,879
Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday.

3
00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:15,200
Speaker 1: Time for a vault episode. This is about the Bond

4
00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:21,200
Speaker 1: Side Tree. It originally published January. Yeah, that's right. I

5
00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,080
Speaker 1: think there's also some discussion in here about the TV

6
00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:30,520
Speaker 1: show Cobra Kai Oki Doki. Welcome to Stuff to Blow

7
00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:39,880
Speaker 1: Your Mind, production of My Heart Radio. Hey you welcome

8
00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:41,720
Speaker 1: to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name is Robert

9
00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:45,000
Speaker 1: Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and today we're gonna be

10
00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:48,639
Speaker 1: talking about Bond Side Now, Brob, I hope you don't

11
00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:51,240
Speaker 1: mind if I share a bit of trivia about you

12
00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:53,279
Speaker 1: with the listeners. I don't know if you've ever made

13
00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:56,240
Speaker 1: clear on this show before, but you are a very

14
00:00:56,280 --> 00:01:00,520
Speaker 1: caring plant keeper. You've for a long time I am

15
00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:04,120
Speaker 1: at work, had a wonderful little flower on your desk,

16
00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:06,680
Speaker 1: and often, like if you're out of town, you would

17
00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:08,759
Speaker 1: ask me to drop an ice cube on it, which

18
00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:12,399
Speaker 1: I think I always remembered to do whenever you asked me. Um,

19
00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:16,160
Speaker 1: but but yeah, I appreciate the care and tenderness you

20
00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,840
Speaker 1: show for the plant kingdom. Well, Um, I appreciate that, Joe.

21
00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:21,920
Speaker 1: I guess you could also say I just I managed

22
00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,200
Speaker 1: not to kill an orchid, uh that that I was

23
00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:29,679
Speaker 1: charged with. Um it was my my father in law's orchid.

24
00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:31,800
Speaker 1: And yeah, I say so. I lived on my desk

25
00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:33,880
Speaker 1: at work there, and it would have an ice cube

26
00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:35,920
Speaker 1: every now and then to keep it hydrated. And I

27
00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:40,400
Speaker 1: would ask you or sometimes a uh Scott who sat

28
00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,800
Speaker 1: next to me, to to do it. Um, And uh, yeah,

29
00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:45,520
Speaker 1: I managed not to kill it. And there is something

30
00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:47,720
Speaker 1: kind of satisfying about having this kind of like long

31
00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,720
Speaker 1: term relationship with a plant. This this nurturing, you know,

32
00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,200
Speaker 1: even if it's very slight nurturing and not like a

33
00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:58,120
Speaker 1: you know, not a real high maintenance plant. Um. You know,

34
00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,720
Speaker 1: it seems like a pretty sturdy speed sees that I

35
00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,560
Speaker 1: had grown there and now it's growing in my bathroom,

36
00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:07,000
Speaker 1: uh since I'm not in office anymore. But yeah, it's

37
00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:10,160
Speaker 1: it is very very satisfying to to be involved in

38
00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:12,560
Speaker 1: a in a nurturing relationship with a plant like that,

39
00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:17,200
Speaker 1: just as it is so frustrating and potentially depressing to

40
00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:20,440
Speaker 1: have the opposite relationship with the plant. You know, I

41
00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:22,200
Speaker 1: think we've all had that as well, where like, oh

42
00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,160
Speaker 1: my gosh, I cannot keep this thing alive, this plant

43
00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,640
Speaker 1: just wants to die or I am just horrible at it. Now.

44
00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:31,359
Speaker 1: One thing you may not have considered, and I apologize

45
00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:33,680
Speaker 1: if this is an overly intimate thought, but whenever you

46
00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:35,480
Speaker 1: have a plant growing in a bathroom, and we have

47
00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,640
Speaker 1: plants growing in our bathrooms, you have to assume that

48
00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,680
Speaker 1: they are making their cells as they continue to photosynthesize

49
00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,079
Speaker 1: from the lights over the sink. They are making their

50
00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:48,120
Speaker 1: cells out of some percentage of carbon that comes out

51
00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:52,799
Speaker 1: of your like toilet emissions and so forth, probably, right,

52
00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:55,880
Speaker 1: I guess. So, I mean that's I mean, that's I

53
00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,120
Speaker 1: guess that's good. Right, You're you're exposing them to to

54
00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,200
Speaker 1: more of the natural world even though they're an indoor plant. Yeah,

55
00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,919
Speaker 1: I never thought about that before. Um well, I mean,

56
00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,240
Speaker 1: so if it's mainly carbon dioxide, I assume it's probably

57
00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,040
Speaker 1: more what you're breathing out. But I don't know. Farts

58
00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:13,240
Speaker 1: probably have some CO two content, right I guess. But

59
00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,640
Speaker 1: then again, if it's if it's farts the plants want,

60
00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:19,680
Speaker 1: then they really want a fully packed office environment again, right,

61
00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:23,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean there's I can't possibly offer it

62
00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,840
Speaker 1: the the you know, the kind of volume it was

63
00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,560
Speaker 1: probably accustomed to. Well, so I'm excited to talk about

64
00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,760
Speaker 1: bondside today. I have never myself taken care of a

65
00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:38,120
Speaker 1: bonsai tree. I have, uh, I have tried to. I

66
00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:40,040
Speaker 1: guess I don't know if this was this would count.

67
00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,840
Speaker 1: I have tried to take care of a sort of

68
00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:44,800
Speaker 1: potted tree of sorts. I don't know if it would

69
00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,720
Speaker 1: actually count as bonsai. But I failed. I just I

70
00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:51,120
Speaker 1: killed it. And that's why I'm partially envious of of

71
00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:53,880
Speaker 1: the dedicated and regular care that you always showed to

72
00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:57,640
Speaker 1: your orchid. Well, I would say that, you know, well, whatever,

73
00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:01,000
Speaker 1: however you classify that care, Bonds I certainly on a

74
00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:03,520
Speaker 1: on an entirely different level. It is up on the

75
00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:07,640
Speaker 1: top of the mountain. We're talking about the pinnacle of

76
00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:10,400
Speaker 1: of caring for a plant, and uh, yeah, this is

77
00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:12,200
Speaker 1: this is one. This is an episode I've wanted to

78
00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:15,480
Speaker 1: do for a while. I think my experience with Bonds

79
00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:17,200
Speaker 1: I have never owned a bonds I or cared for

80
00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:19,640
Speaker 1: a bonsai, but my experience with him with them is

81
00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:21,640
Speaker 1: probably similar to a lot of people's out there. My

82
00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:25,880
Speaker 1: first exposure was almost certainly watching the karate kid as

83
00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:29,120
Speaker 1: a child. Uh, and seeing that, oh Mr Miyagi has

84
00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:32,120
Speaker 1: has bonsai plants, those are neat uh. And then maybe

85
00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:33,560
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe they popped up on a reading

86
00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:36,719
Speaker 1: rainbow or something at some point I don't recall. But

87
00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:39,400
Speaker 1: then much much later, uh, I you know, I was,

88
00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:42,120
Speaker 1: I was traveling and I was visiting, but believe one

89
00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,440
Speaker 1: place in San Francisco, in another place in San Diego

90
00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:48,000
Speaker 1: where I got to see a multitude of bonsai plants,

91
00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,560
Speaker 1: uh with you know, identification information as well as age.

92
00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,400
Speaker 1: And it was just really amazing to behold these things,

93
00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:59,719
Speaker 1: these these ancient trees that that you feel should be

94
00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,120
Speaker 1: gi panic, but they are in miniature and they are alive,

95
00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:06,000
Speaker 1: and they are just meticulously cared for and crafted. Uh.

96
00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,880
Speaker 1: And yeah there's this there's this kind of magical aura

97
00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,120
Speaker 1: to them and this and this age, this kind of

98
00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:15,000
Speaker 1: condensed age, you know. Um, so they're they're really special

99
00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:17,800
Speaker 1: to just behold. And then when you read a little

100
00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,599
Speaker 1: bit about caring for them, Yeah, it also Uh that

101
00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:22,960
Speaker 1: just adds to your level of appreciation when you read

102
00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,680
Speaker 1: about the culture involved in it. And uh. And so yeah,

103
00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:27,320
Speaker 1: I wanted to do an episode on this for a while,

104
00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:29,040
Speaker 1: and then I've kind of forgotten about it. I think

105
00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,839
Speaker 1: we pitched it as part of a deal with a UM,

106
00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:34,240
Speaker 1: a Japanese automobile company that was gonna advertise for this,

107
00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,360
Speaker 1: and and then that didn't happen. I forgot about it.

108
00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,880
Speaker 1: But then I ended up watching Cobra Kai on Netflix,

109
00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:42,920
Speaker 1: which also has the Bonsai trees in it, and uh,

110
00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,040
Speaker 1: and I was reminded, Oh, yeah, we we should do

111
00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,760
Speaker 1: a bonsaie episode. Got bonds I bouncing around in the brain. Okay,

112
00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,160
Speaker 1: so maybe you can answer a question that I'm sure

113
00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,120
Speaker 1: a lot of people are wondering, What is it? What

114
00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,360
Speaker 1: makes the strict definition of a Bondsai tree? What makes

115
00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:03,680
Speaker 1: a bonds I tree different than any potted plant. Well, um,

116
00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,279
Speaker 1: based on my understanding of it, I would say that

117
00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:08,440
Speaker 1: the big thing to do is you sort of have

118
00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,679
Speaker 1: to back up and think about it not just as

119
00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:14,840
Speaker 1: caring for a tree and growing for a tree and

120
00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:18,720
Speaker 1: nurturing a tree, but it's also just it's also steeped

121
00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,120
Speaker 1: in just like the basics of art and design, you know,

122
00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:23,479
Speaker 1: because art in design, you know, very often sent around

123
00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,520
Speaker 1: the manipulation of the natural world or natural resources into

124
00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:30,880
Speaker 1: some form that is esthetically pleasing and perhaps even philosophical

125
00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,160
Speaker 1: or theologically engaging as well. You know, we take stone

126
00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:36,520
Speaker 1: and we craft into the likeness of a human or

127
00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,440
Speaker 1: some sort of humanoid figure of myth or legend. Trees

128
00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:41,719
Speaker 1: are cut down in hun and then the raw material

129
00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:44,359
Speaker 1: is carved into all manner of forms and functions. But

130
00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,400
Speaker 1: as for the control of living plants, that brings us,

131
00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,839
Speaker 1: of course to agriculture and cultivation. Um and and human

132
00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,000
Speaker 1: works are pretty grand in this realm as well. I mean,

133
00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,159
Speaker 1: you look at what we have done for generations and

134
00:06:56,200 --> 00:07:00,400
Speaker 1: generations with agriculture and cultivation. But the bonds depening bonds

135
00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:04,240
Speaker 1: eye tree. It is the pinnacle of plant cultivation. Uh

136
00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,680
Speaker 1: And and I think that Brad Dunning described this exceptionally

137
00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:10,520
Speaker 1: well for the New York Times back in two thousand two.

138
00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,680
Speaker 1: Uh they wrote, quote, but it's more than just an

139
00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:15,880
Speaker 1: issue of control, simple for it simply for the sake

140
00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,440
Speaker 1: of control. As nature spins wildly downward, there is an

141
00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:24,360
Speaker 1: example of man controlling, conquering, nurturing, and respecting nature on

142
00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:30,040
Speaker 1: an extremely uh reverential level. By constantly thwarting the growth

143
00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:33,520
Speaker 1: of new saplings. The Bonsai gardener through pinching cutting and

144
00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:37,120
Speaker 1: splitting new growth forces the tree's branches to strain in

145
00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:41,160
Speaker 1: any direction to succeed. With additional help from restraining wires,

146
00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:45,880
Speaker 1: the tree is manipulated into prematurely aged shape over time.

147
00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,680
Speaker 1: Sometimes a lot of time. Prize specimens can be several

148
00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:54,200
Speaker 1: hundred years old. So bonds is not just a potted plant,

149
00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,360
Speaker 1: but it's a tree that's grown in a confined environment

150
00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:01,920
Speaker 1: with this spirit of artistic shaping. Yes, yeah, and uh

151
00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:04,520
Speaker 1: and and along and you know, certain traditional like you

152
00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:06,760
Speaker 1: get into like what kind of pot is used, etcetera.

153
00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:10,040
Speaker 1: And then it of also noted what species is used. Uh,

154
00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,640
Speaker 1: you know, as as is often the case with with

155
00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:17,760
Speaker 1: this particularly you know, Japanese artistry, there are a lot

156
00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,760
Speaker 1: of very particular details in the cultivation and it you know,

157
00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:23,760
Speaker 1: it comes down to things like what are their traditional

158
00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,080
Speaker 1: shears that one should use, what are the best shears? Uh,

159
00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:30,520
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. Um. Another thing that's interesting about

160
00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,400
Speaker 1: bonsai trees to me, and I think this comes through

161
00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:37,679
Speaker 1: through all this pruning and shaping and everything, is that, Um,

162
00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:41,400
Speaker 1: a bonsai tree does not just look like a sapling

163
00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:45,840
Speaker 1: or like a young tree. There is a particular style

164
00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,800
Speaker 1: of miniaturization that comes about through the long sustained care

165
00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:52,880
Speaker 1: of this this small plant, which is that it is

166
00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:56,520
Speaker 1: a tiny version of a tree that looks like a

167
00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:00,120
Speaker 1: shrunken adult version of the same tree, a round other

168
00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,520
Speaker 1: than just a sapling or young growth. Does that make sense? Yeah?

169
00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:07,240
Speaker 1: And exactly that they're like this ancient dwarf and uh

170
00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:10,360
Speaker 1: and it and it a lot of the reasons that

171
00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:12,760
Speaker 1: this is attractive to us. I feel like they almost

172
00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:17,640
Speaker 1: deny or that they defy rather um, you know, easy explanation.

173
00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:21,120
Speaker 1: You know, there's something obviously about the world at large

174
00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:23,520
Speaker 1: made small that we're always fascinated. And you know, we

175
00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:28,360
Speaker 1: love miniatures, be it, you know, miniature miniature soldiers, miniature tanks,

176
00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:32,320
Speaker 1: miniature cities, maps, etcetera. Uh. And in fact, one of

177
00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,719
Speaker 1: the the the origin stories for the Bonsai trees that

178
00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:36,320
Speaker 1: will touch on has to do with that, like the

179
00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:38,720
Speaker 1: idea of like make make the world at large small

180
00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,720
Speaker 1: enough for me to behold it. Uh. But then also

181
00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:45,680
Speaker 1: there is something too about like the ancient made small

182
00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:48,240
Speaker 1: like it it reminds me of so many myths of

183
00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,280
Speaker 1: like tiny little old men, you know, that have some

184
00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:55,520
Speaker 1: sort of magical powers, you know, little folks. Yeah. Yeah,

185
00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:57,760
Speaker 1: And there's something of the of the fairy world, you know,

186
00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:02,719
Speaker 1: in that that you know, non culturally distinct manner to

187
00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:07,559
Speaker 1: the bonds eye tree. Now, um, there are of course

188
00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,839
Speaker 1: true bonds eyes created in accordance with the Japanese tradition. Uh.

189
00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,120
Speaker 1: And there are various tears that follow that fall below

190
00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,240
Speaker 1: the standard, with one of the most notorious being the

191
00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,160
Speaker 1: sort of bonds eye that sometimes is sold at malls,

192
00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,800
Speaker 1: grocery stores and street fairs. And these, according to Stephen

193
00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,199
Speaker 1: Or in New York Times Garden Q and A in

194
00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:28,840
Speaker 1: two thousand nine, are a curse upon the name of

195
00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:32,520
Speaker 1: bonds ie. Uh. These are typically young rooted juniper tree

196
00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,920
Speaker 1: cuttings in a decorative pot. Uh. So not true bonds eyes.

197
00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,160
Speaker 1: Will get into what true bonds I really consists of

198
00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,360
Speaker 1: in a bit. But people will buy these, they think

199
00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:42,160
Speaker 1: they have a bonds eye. It looks neat, they bring

200
00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:44,040
Speaker 1: it home, and then they're devastated when it dies in

201
00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:47,120
Speaker 1: a few months. So not a not an ancient dwarf

202
00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,600
Speaker 1: tree or something that will become an ancient dwarf tree,

203
00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:52,440
Speaker 1: but just a short lived trick. And this made me

204
00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,199
Speaker 1: think of Cobra Kai actually because in the TV show

205
00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:58,959
Speaker 1: UM Ralph Macchio's character, uh, you know from the first film,

206
00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:01,400
Speaker 1: is now a a car dealer and he has a

207
00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:04,160
Speaker 1: car dealers shop, and part of his whole gimmick in

208
00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,400
Speaker 1: the show is when you buy a car, you also

209
00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:09,559
Speaker 1: get this little bonds eye plant that he prepares. And

210
00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:11,880
Speaker 1: I guess it's supposed to you know, he's he's very

211
00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,200
Speaker 1: meticulous character and he's all into the tradition, So I

212
00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:17,240
Speaker 1: guess it's supposed to be the case that these are

213
00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:20,119
Speaker 1: legitimate bonds eye trees that he's handing out to customers.

214
00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:26,120
Speaker 1: But it makes me wonder how many. I mean, yeah,

215
00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,160
Speaker 1: he sells nice cars, but I wonder it does the

216
00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:32,199
Speaker 1: cynical side of me um leaning into sort of the

217
00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,280
Speaker 1: sort of the cynical notes to that character in that show,

218
00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:35,760
Speaker 1: is like, I wonder if these are just the cheap

219
00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,000
Speaker 1: roadside bonds eyes that he's handing out. You know, that

220
00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,920
Speaker 1: would be very car dealery. But you can always blame

221
00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:44,439
Speaker 1: user error, right, You can always just say like, I

222
00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:46,880
Speaker 1: must not have taken care of it, right, Yeah, better

223
00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,959
Speaker 1: bring it back into the shop. We'll apply that undercoating

224
00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,040
Speaker 1: the true code. Yeah, you're gonna want that true code

225
00:11:55,080 --> 00:12:01,800
Speaker 1: on your bonds. Eye. Yeah. Uh, it's a fun show. Um.

226
00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:04,640
Speaker 1: Well yeah, let's well, let's keep going talking about bonds eyes. Then.

227
00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,240
Speaker 1: So at the heart of the bonsai practice is just

228
00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,920
Speaker 1: pure artistic manipulation of the tree's growth. Trees, as you've

229
00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:14,440
Speaker 1: probably notice, everyone grow in accordance to their genes, but

230
00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,680
Speaker 1: also in accordance to their surroundings. So this means the

231
00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:21,440
Speaker 1: dictates of water, soil, and sun, various other limiting factors

232
00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,439
Speaker 1: in their immediate surroundings as well, such as other trees,

233
00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:29,000
Speaker 1: human structures, power lines. Uh. You know, as I think

234
00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,440
Speaker 1: we all can attest to, you can you can see

235
00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:33,960
Speaker 1: some pretty wonky trees out in the world, out in

236
00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,760
Speaker 1: the forest in urban environments, you know, where they do

237
00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,240
Speaker 1: the best they can with the with the constraints that

238
00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:45,079
Speaker 1: are there. Um. And indeed they can produce natural examples

239
00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:48,000
Speaker 1: of what you can at least roughly classify as a

240
00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,559
Speaker 1: bonsai tree. For instance, if you were to travel down

241
00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:56,160
Speaker 1: to a place called Tate's Hell and uh, Tate's Hell

242
00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:59,679
Speaker 1: State Forest near Tallahassee, Florida, and I have to say

243
00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:01,559
Speaker 1: I have driven through it. I can't say I've actually

244
00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,199
Speaker 1: visited that. I did drive through it. Uh, there there

245
00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,720
Speaker 1: is a forest apparently of miniature cypress trees hundreds of

246
00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:12,640
Speaker 1: years old, covering acres and none more than fifteen feet tall. Which, granted,

247
00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:14,679
Speaker 1: that's far bigger than what you might think of as

248
00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,120
Speaker 1: the bonds I tree, a true bonds I tree, um.

249
00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:20,080
Speaker 1: But bear in mind that cypress trees of this variety

250
00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,320
Speaker 1: and age can reach heights of a hundred and fifty feet. Yes,

251
00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,760
Speaker 1: old cypress trees can can be towering, and so there

252
00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:30,920
Speaker 1: are special conditions at work that keep this ancient forest

253
00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:32,840
Speaker 1: as short as it is. I was reading that most

254
00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:36,280
Speaker 1: of these trees are between um like six and fifteen

255
00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:38,480
Speaker 1: feet at maturity. I think a lot of them around

256
00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:42,000
Speaker 1: ten feet or so. Uh, and it's very strange looking.

257
00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,720
Speaker 1: I found one picture that's like an aerial shot of

258
00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:49,679
Speaker 1: this dwarf cypress forest that is surrounded by many other trees.

259
00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:51,839
Speaker 1: I think the story goes that at some point there

260
00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,400
Speaker 1: was a company that was harvesting a lot of the

261
00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:56,679
Speaker 1: trees from the area. I think maybe for logging or

262
00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,600
Speaker 1: maybe to clear land for something. But um, but when

263
00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:03,240
Speaker 1: they the dwarf cypress forests, they realized that that they

264
00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,720
Speaker 1: that this was something unusual and worth preserving, so they

265
00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,880
Speaker 1: they stopped a lot of their their shaping of the

266
00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:11,480
Speaker 1: land at the edge of this thing, and it did

267
00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:13,720
Speaker 1: end up getting preserved when the state bought it and

268
00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:17,360
Speaker 1: turned it into a state forest. But a sidebar on

269
00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,440
Speaker 1: Tate's Hell, because I had to know what was up

270
00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:22,880
Speaker 1: with that name, and I looked into it, and I

271
00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:28,160
Speaker 1: actually was rewarded with some very excellent Florida swamp lore. Alright,

272
00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,920
Speaker 1: let's have it. Well, So I was reading about it

273
00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:35,000
Speaker 1: in this book called Florida Lore by Karen Schnuir Neil

274
00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:39,360
Speaker 1: published in tween, and she points out, first of all,

275
00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,480
Speaker 1: there is a song by the old Florida folk singer

276
00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,960
Speaker 1: Will McLean about tates Hell, and it it tells the

277
00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,400
Speaker 1: same story as the legend that I'm about to explain.

278
00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,360
Speaker 1: But it's also one of those old style folk songs

279
00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,200
Speaker 1: that starts with a section that is not singing, but

280
00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,320
Speaker 1: it's kind of rapping, I don't know exactly what you

281
00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:02,040
Speaker 1: call it, like fast rhythmic rhyming talking before the tune

282
00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:05,680
Speaker 1: kicks in where he says, like, listen, good people to

283
00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:07,680
Speaker 1: a story I'll tell of a great swamp in Florida

284
00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,600
Speaker 1: place called Tate's Hell. Yeah, yeah, it's sort of like

285
00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,520
Speaker 1: the pre folk song ramble. Sometimes I guess it rhymes,

286
00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:17,080
Speaker 1: oftentimes it does not, but you hear it from from

287
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,440
Speaker 1: a number of practitioners of the craft. I know phil

288
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:20,760
Speaker 1: Oaks would do it a lot, you know, where he's

289
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:22,240
Speaker 1: kind of working up. He's like, all right, I listening

290
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,160
Speaker 1: this tune and I got a little and sometimes it's

291
00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:25,920
Speaker 1: even like a bit. It's almost like a little comedy

292
00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:29,280
Speaker 1: bit and I guess, I guess off, yeah, yeah, and

293
00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:31,880
Speaker 1: I guess that's what uh oh, what's their name? Is

294
00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:33,680
Speaker 1: kind of leaned into this a lot and their act.

295
00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:39,320
Speaker 1: Uh the famous folk comedy duo Oh, I can't think

296
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,080
Speaker 1: of their names offhand. Um, I don't know. I don't

297
00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:43,480
Speaker 1: know who one of them is, Bob, one of them

298
00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:47,520
Speaker 1: has a beard, soft spoken Garfunkel and notes no it's

299
00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:49,640
Speaker 1: not Garfunkle notes though, I think they probably have like

300
00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,480
Speaker 1: more of a modern version of this, and it's it's

301
00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:55,920
Speaker 1: not the Flight of the Concords. Those are the two

302
00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,320
Speaker 1: folk comedy duos I know. These are the one They

303
00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:02,760
Speaker 1: were on TV all the time. Um oh man um

304
00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,680
Speaker 1: Smothers Brothers, the Smothers brothers. I don't know why I was.

305
00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:09,600
Speaker 1: I was trying. Yeah, Well, will McLean tells us that

306
00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,240
Speaker 1: Tate's Hell is a place where the bull gators beller

307
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:14,640
Speaker 1: and the panthers squall. Now, this is a place that

308
00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:18,560
Speaker 1: should be shunned by all. And so the legend goes

309
00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,960
Speaker 1: like this, But this is the version that I was

310
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,680
Speaker 1: reading in the book by um by Neil, not by

311
00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,160
Speaker 1: not in will McLean's song, though they're similar. The legend

312
00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:31,200
Speaker 1: goes that in the year eighteen there was a homesteader

313
00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:34,760
Speaker 1: named CB Tate who had staked a claim for a

314
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:37,320
Speaker 1: ranch in the Panhandle of Florida. And that's where Tate's

315
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,120
Speaker 1: Hell is. It's up in the Panhandle. It's uh, I

316
00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:44,080
Speaker 1: think it's near Wacola Springs, isn't it. Um Perhaps, I mean,

317
00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,520
Speaker 1: certainly I've been to Wacola or Waccola. I'm not sure

318
00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,880
Speaker 1: exactly what the preferred pronunciation there is. Uh. Yeah, I've

319
00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:54,040
Speaker 1: been there, but I guess I don't remember how I

320
00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:55,840
Speaker 1: even came through Tate's Hell. It was just we were

321
00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:57,960
Speaker 1: on the way to somewhere else and we had to

322
00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,400
Speaker 1: pass through it. Well, it's near a place the is

323
00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:04,720
Speaker 1: now called Sumatra, Florida. It's an unincorporated community about thirty

324
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,320
Speaker 1: miles from the city of Carabelle. And the context for

325
00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,040
Speaker 1: this is that there was the Homestead Act of eighteen

326
00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:13,719
Speaker 1: sixty two, which meant that settlers could get a grant

327
00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,560
Speaker 1: of supposedly free land from the government if they would

328
00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:18,879
Speaker 1: agree to stay there and develop it for five years.

329
00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:22,600
Speaker 1: And cbtit is one of these homesteaders. So he's got

330
00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:24,920
Speaker 1: a he's got a ranch or a farm that he's

331
00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:27,919
Speaker 1: trying to run, and one morning he discovers that a

332
00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,280
Speaker 1: panther has mauled several of his cows. So he sets

333
00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:33,280
Speaker 1: off in the forest with his hunting dogs and the

334
00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,200
Speaker 1: implements of death, as Will McLean says, an old long

335
00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,760
Speaker 1: tom shotgun and a sharp barlow knife. That panther would

336
00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:43,280
Speaker 1: sure have the chase of his life. And so Tate's

337
00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:45,400
Speaker 1: dogs they get the scent on the panther and they

338
00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,600
Speaker 1: take off after it, but Tate himself falls behind and

339
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:52,240
Speaker 1: he gets separated from his hunting dogs. Unfortunately, as we've

340
00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,040
Speaker 1: discussed in the podcast last October, when there is no

341
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,840
Speaker 1: visible landmark to navigate by, it's surprisingly easy to get

342
00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:01,679
Speaker 1: lost in the woods, and that appears to be what

343
00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,960
Speaker 1: happens here. He's wandering in the swampy forest and he

344
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,399
Speaker 1: gets lost and at some point he gets bitten by

345
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,880
Speaker 1: a snake and he loses his gun. And to read

346
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:14,320
Speaker 1: from Karen schnurneil here quote, for seven days and nights

347
00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:18,000
Speaker 1: he roamed the ancient trees in ominous swampland, more often

348
00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:20,920
Speaker 1: than not, dazed with hunger and heat, forced to live

349
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:24,359
Speaker 1: on nothing but roots and muddy water. To make matters worse,

350
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,639
Speaker 1: the mosquitoes swarmed around him until every inch of his

351
00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:33,240
Speaker 1: body was bitten. That's worse than the snake bite to me. Yeah. Uh.

352
00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:35,639
Speaker 1: And the story says that over the course of the

353
00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:38,200
Speaker 1: week that he was lost, his hair turned white. But

354
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,080
Speaker 1: then after seven days, just when he was convinced he

355
00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:43,320
Speaker 1: was going to die, Tate ran into a couple of

356
00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,080
Speaker 1: a couple of hunters from Carabelle, and they asked him

357
00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:47,760
Speaker 1: who are you and where do you come from? And

358
00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:49,960
Speaker 1: he says, my name is CB Tate, and I come

359
00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:54,000
Speaker 1: from Hell. Probably not exactly true, but it is a

360
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,560
Speaker 1: good story. But anyway, if the story were true, it's

361
00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:01,159
Speaker 1: possible that many of the cypress trees that are still

362
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,600
Speaker 1: no more than ten or fifteen feet tall today in

363
00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,920
Speaker 1: the cypress forest of Tate's Hell would have been there

364
00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:09,960
Speaker 1: to watch Cbta get snake bit, you know, a middle

365
00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,359
Speaker 1: of the bull gator bellers. Because again a lot of

366
00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:15,000
Speaker 1: these these trees are are quite old there, you know,

367
00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:17,840
Speaker 1: hundreds of years old, even though they're still so small.

368
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:20,480
Speaker 1: And I was reading a post about the dwarf cypress

369
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,600
Speaker 1: forest on the blog of a local conservation organization called

370
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,840
Speaker 1: the Appalachicola River Keeper, and the author of this blog

371
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,840
Speaker 1: post writes that quote, these dwarf pond cypress trees may

372
00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:34,000
Speaker 1: have become stunted due to a hard layer of clay

373
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,679
Speaker 1: that prevents roots from growing deeper, similar to planting a

374
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,480
Speaker 1: tree in a bond said pot. So that's one possibility.

375
00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:45,199
Speaker 1: Another they go on. Also, the soil is low and nutrients,

376
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,639
Speaker 1: as evidenced by the carnivorous plants in the area. You

377
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,920
Speaker 1: can also find dwarf cypress trees near the picture plant

378
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:56,280
Speaker 1: Boggs north of Sumatra, so there may be some correlation. Now,

379
00:19:56,320 --> 00:20:00,080
Speaker 1: remember we've discussed carnivorous plants on the show before. The

380
00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,600
Speaker 1: reason that carnivorous plants eat insects, or at least most

381
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,480
Speaker 1: carnivorous plants, I would assume all uh, the reason they

382
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,919
Speaker 1: eat insects is not the same as the main reason

383
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,600
Speaker 1: that we would eat plants or animals. You know, we

384
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,159
Speaker 1: need to eat things to get you know, protein and energy.

385
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:19,080
Speaker 1: Plants photosynthesized sunlight to get the energy they need to live.

386
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:23,880
Speaker 1: So carnivorous plants eat for specific nutrients that are lacking

387
00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,840
Speaker 1: in barren and often swampy soil. What other plants would

388
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:32,520
Speaker 1: get from the soil around them, carnivorous plants get from insects.

389
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,560
Speaker 1: And in human terms, when plants eat an insect there

390
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:38,840
Speaker 1: it's not like devouring a loaf of bread. It's like

391
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:42,240
Speaker 1: they're taking their vitamins. So, according to this source, at

392
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:46,080
Speaker 1: least that same type of nutrient poor soil could be

393
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,480
Speaker 1: one thing preventing the cypress trees from growing taller. Or

394
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:52,600
Speaker 1: it could be a hard layer of sediment that blocks

395
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,119
Speaker 1: root growth, which in turn shapes the body of the

396
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,920
Speaker 1: tree as a whole, which is very much what happens

397
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:02,399
Speaker 1: when you plant a tree in a pot. And this

398
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,720
Speaker 1: also ties into something else interesting that I was reading

399
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:06,240
Speaker 1: that that I guess I'll come back to in a

400
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:10,960
Speaker 1: few minutes. But yeah, so bonsai trees are there, their

401
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:13,800
Speaker 1: growth is constrained by several factors, but one of the

402
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,440
Speaker 1: main ones being the pot that they're confined to help

403
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,120
Speaker 1: shape the not just where the roots go, but the

404
00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,480
Speaker 1: the overall shape of the tree as a whole. That's interest. Yeah,

405
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,560
Speaker 1: that and that ties directly into what we're talking about

406
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,640
Speaker 1: with the with the bonsai. Um. Now, I will say

407
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:31,600
Speaker 1: that as far as Tate's Helle goes, I do remember

408
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,320
Speaker 1: how I wound up there. I was midway upon the

409
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,800
Speaker 1: journey of our life, and I found myself within a

410
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 1: forest dart uh for the far straightforward pathway had been lost.

411
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 1: Uh oh and what and you ran into three beasts,

412
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,480
Speaker 1: one of which was a panther ye yeah, maybe another

413
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,040
Speaker 1: was a bull gator. Yeah. And then Virgil jumped out

414
00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,400
Speaker 1: and there was a big action scene. He defeated them,

415
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,240
Speaker 1: and then we yeah, then we went into Tate's hell

416
00:21:53,760 --> 00:22:04,280
Speaker 1: Floridian Virgil though Poppy Satan Leppie. Yeah. Alright, so yeah,

417
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,360
Speaker 1: back the bonds eyes here bonsai proper. So yeah, in need.

418
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,640
Speaker 1: Some of the models for bonsai trees are actually trees

419
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 1: found growing in the natural environment, uh, particularly growing over

420
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,320
Speaker 1: water or on the sides of mountains, you know, in

421
00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 1: the rocky crags, forced by their inform environment into dwarf

422
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 1: forms like we're talking about here. So again, the bonsai

423
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:31,040
Speaker 1: treatment is trying to do is doing what nature does

424
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 1: in constraining the growth of a tree, but then taking

425
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 1: it to the next level, you know, involving just absolute

426
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 1: artistic manipulation of the form. Bonsai means roughly tree in

427
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:46,200
Speaker 1: a pot in Japanese. Uh. Specifically, we're talking plants grown

428
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:51,160
Speaker 1: in shallow containers and via the exact tenants of bonsai

429
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 1: pruning and training. So it's it's worth stressing that a

430
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 1: bonsai is not genetically a dwarf plant, nor is it

431
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,439
Speaker 1: kept all three some sort of reginative torture or anything

432
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 1: like that. No, it's these physical constraints we've been talking about,

433
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 1: which as shown in one possible explanation of the dwarf

434
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,960
Speaker 1: Cyprus in in the swamp there that that can happen

435
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,440
Speaker 1: in nature. It happens, like you're saying, on cliff faces

436
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 1: and other times, when the physical forces around a plant

437
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 1: shape its growth. Though, I do want to say, while

438
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:25,159
Speaker 1: bonsai trees are not not generally genetically dwarfed plants, the

439
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,959
Speaker 1: subject of actual genetic dwarf plant strains actually has a

440
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 1: massive impact on the recent history of the world. This

441
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:36,440
Speaker 1: is something that is a fact that's actually little appreciated

442
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 1: by many people, considering how consequential it has been in

443
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,200
Speaker 1: the world, and something that goes beyond the art and

444
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:46,360
Speaker 1: esthetics of plant keeping. Dwarf plants and what are sometimes

445
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 1: known as semi dwarf plants have played a shockingly powerful

446
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,640
Speaker 1: role in the economics and practicalities of food crops over

447
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,920
Speaker 1: the last I guess like sixty seventy years, so uh

448
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 1: Dwarf or semi dwarfs strains of crop plants like wheat

449
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 1: and rice especially have very much change the world, and

450
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:07,119
Speaker 1: if you want to learn more about this, you can

451
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 1: look up the Green Revolution. Basically, this refers to a

452
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 1: suite of new technologies and techniques and agriculture, especially new

453
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 1: dwarf strains of staple crops like wheat and rice that

454
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:23,199
Speaker 1: were developed and deployed throughout the nineteen fifties and sixties,

455
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 1: and of course new agricultural techniques and transgenic plants and

456
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,120
Speaker 1: things like that. Have lots of modern critics, but all

457
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,159
Speaker 1: of those criticisms considered, it is widely acknowledged that the

458
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: Green Revolution played an unprecedented role in decreasing world hunger

459
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 1: and has probably saved at least a billion human lives.

460
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 1: Now you might immediately wonder why, like why would physically

461
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: smaller strains of crop plants like wheat and rice actually

462
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 1: make a difference. How could they? How could smaller plants

463
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 1: help save millions or billions of lives? Well, one paper

464
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 1: I was looking at in the journal Plant Physiology had

465
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,919
Speaker 1: a good short summary of this in its background section.

466
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 1: This was by any a Elias at All. It was

467
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 1: published in and so they note that semi dwarf is

468
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 1: um in plants results in a few things, one of

469
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 1: the which is decreased lodging. Lodging is a term in

470
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:17,919
Speaker 1: agriculture where tall crop plants like wheat stalks can bend

471
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 1: over at the base. You've probably actually seen this before

472
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: in wheat fields, where they just sort of like fold

473
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: over into the ground, making the grain difficult to harvest.

474
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 1: And the shorter stalks do this far less, but there's

475
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:34,360
Speaker 1: also just an increased yield of grain and improved harvest index.

476
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: The harvest index is the percent of the above ground

477
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 1: biomass represented by the harvest herble part of the plant.

478
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,919
Speaker 1: In other words, like what percentage of the part of

479
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 1: the plant that's above ground is actually grain and not

480
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: just you know, unusable stalk or husk. But in addition

481
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 1: to these enormously consequential changes in strains of cereal crops,

482
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,400
Speaker 1: the authors point out that semi dwarf is um has

483
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: big benefits in fruit tree production. So, you know, tree

484
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: trees that produce fruits like apples or peaches can have

485
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: semi dwarf varieties that are that are very useful to farmers.

486
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 1: In certain cases, they might bear fruit earlier in the season,

487
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 1: have higher yields of fruit. Um be easier to harvest

488
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 1: because the fruit is just like closer to the grounds,

489
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 1: so it's easier to pick um. But of course semi

490
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 1: dwarf species play a big role in pure aesthetics to quote.

491
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 1: Semi dwarf woody species are also extensively used in ornamental horticulture,

492
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 1: where they allow more compact forms to be fit into

493
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: small areas around homes and on streets to reduce the

494
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 1: need for pruning to avoid interference with structures and transmission lines.

495
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 1: I've never considered that before. Yeah, I mean, you do

496
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 1: hear about problems with with roots interfering with structures and

497
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: plumbing and so forth, So it makes sense. I am

498
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 1: intimately familiar with that, as is anybody else out there

499
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: who has ever had to replace a sewer line that

500
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 1: was being traded by the roots of an ornamental plant.

501
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: It's real, folks, The anguish is profound when when your

502
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 1: toilets won't flush. But anyway, this paper in particular, that

503
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 1: was just stuff that it talks about in its background section.

504
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 1: The actual point of this paper is making the case

505
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 1: for using semi dwarf strains of trees in forestry. Uh

506
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: the author's right quote. Although against the current orthodoxy of

507
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,919
Speaker 1: forest tree breeding, where height growth is emphasized. You know,

508
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,439
Speaker 1: usually you want trees to be tall, they say that

509
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 1: semi dwarf is um might also have benefits for wood

510
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 1: and biomass production. Such trees could be useful if they

511
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 1: were less prone to wind throw due to their shorter,

512
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 1: stockier forms and expected greater allocation to roots. Reduced stature

513
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: could also result in less bending and slanting of trunks

514
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: in the face of wind and gravity on hill slopes,

515
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 1: and thus reduced the extent of reaction would formation, which

516
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: degrades the performance and value of solid wood and pulp products.

517
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: Reduced height and increased allocation of growth to roots might

518
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 1: enhance stress tolerance, soil nutrient uptake, bio remediation, and carbon sequestration. Um.

519
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,360
Speaker 1: So again, this was published in twelve. I'm not sure

520
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 1: how their argument about the use of dwarf strains in

521
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: forestry holds up since then, but it's a really interesting

522
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: idea to appreciate how much of a difference in the

523
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,640
Speaker 1: world has just been made by not just new agricultural

524
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: techniques and irrigation and things like that, but just the

525
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: introduction of smaller plants. It's literally changed human civilization, uh

526
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 1: and elsewhere. Just as one note, I read about some

527
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: dwarf crops strains potentially being developed for use in space flight,

528
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 1: which I thought was pretty funny. You can see it's interesting. Yeah,

529
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: I remember getting into this. I don't know they were

530
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 1: well you would classify as a dwarf plant. But I

531
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: remember in our episode about tomatoes, we touched on tomato

532
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: varieties that have been developed potentially for use in a

533
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 1: low gravity environment. Yeah. Yeah, so it could be similar

534
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: things here. I imagine, not trees for forestry, but you know,

535
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: food bearing plants I would assume. But but to bring

536
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: things back to bons I again. As you emphasized earlier,

537
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 1: with Bonsai, were generally talking about trees that are tiny

538
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: by way of nurture, not nature right there, These are

539
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 1: not genetically dwarf strains. There are. There are constraints imposed

540
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: upon them by their their human cultivators that keep them

541
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: in this tiny shape. And one thing that's really interesting

542
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: about plants is that it's striking how much nurture can

543
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: look like nature when it comes to the plant kingdom.

544
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: And this brings me to one last thing I wanted

545
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: to talk about briefly. It was a really interesting essay

546
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 1: I was reading, uh published an Eon magazine. It was

547
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 1: called Rooted from October twenty nineteen, and it's about the

548
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: concept of of how trees embody history, that that time

549
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: is really shown through a tree and uh it was

550
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: written by Alia Nasser, who is a lecturer and philosophy

551
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 1: at the University of Sydney, and by Margaret M. Barber,

552
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 1: who is a professor of plant physiology at the at

553
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 1: the University of Sydney. And so I just want to

554
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: read a quote from their their article here. While all

555
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 1: living beings carry their past with them into their present

556
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: and future selves, Trees embody their history in a way

557
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 1: that is far more explicit and with greater detail and

558
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 1: visibility than any other living being. The history of any

559
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: particular tree is not hidden in an interior part, nor

560
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: is it found in only one of its parts. As such,

561
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 1: trees call attention to the historicity of life, demanding that

562
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: we think of life not as static and machine like,

563
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: but as a dynamic context. Sensitive and plastic trees are

564
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: not only embodied recorders of their history, but also shape shifters,

565
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: whose structure transforms in relation to their environment. Put simply,

566
00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 1: trees express their context in their physical warm. Trees of

567
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: the same species can look significantly different depending on their

568
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: growth environment, and even within an individual tree, the leaves

569
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 1: at the shady bottom of the canopy are anatomically different,

570
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 1: meaning larger and thinner from those at the top, smaller

571
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 1: and thicker. When densely planted, trees grow long, straight trunks

572
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 1: and small canopies, but when planted in a grass field

573
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: that grow shorter stems and broad crowns. The crown of

574
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 1: a solitary oak spreads out in all directions, eventually achieving

575
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 1: a dome shape, while an oak growing in a forest

576
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: develops a small crown and its growth is patterned on

577
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: the growth of surrounding trees, or think of a bond

578
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 1: said tree in contrast to its full size sibling. Trees

579
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 1: are so adaptive to their surroundings that a human equivalent

580
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: to tree plasticity would be certain people growing large webbed

581
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: feet like diving flippers simply because they swim a lot.

582
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: And they go on to point out other examples of

583
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 1: this that, uh this actually would tie back into the

584
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: dwarf cypress example from Tate's Hell that the soil quality,

585
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: for example, can shape a tree. And uh so all

586
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 1: these different features of the natural environment come through in

587
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: the shape and form and physiology of a tree that

588
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: could start genetically identical but end up looking so far

589
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 1: apart they would be unrecognizable. Wow. I I really love

590
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 1: that the idea of the especially the way time is

591
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: wound up in a tree, because that does seem to

592
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 1: be a huge part of of Bonsai tree tradition, because

593
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 1: these are things that that very often outlive the individual

594
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 1: who is caring for them. You know, it's it's a

595
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: thing that has to be passed on. It is that

596
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 1: they're sometimes described as being like children, you know, Um,

597
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: and I was thinking about this, especially when I watched

598
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 1: a Great Big Story video about bonsai shares. Great Big

599
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 1: Story is sadly funk now. But they before they went out,

600
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,479
Speaker 1: they made a whole bunch of videos about various various

601
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 1: cultural things and practices, and a number of these relate

602
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: to Japanese cultural um things and topics. But there's one

603
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 1: titled making thirty five thousand dollar Bonsaie Scissors that I

604
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 1: recommend checking out, and it's about this, uh, this guy

605
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: who is the the Saska brand of of bonsaie scissors,

606
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 1: which I think are the only traditional bonsaie scissors uh

607
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 1: that are still created in um in Japan. And you

608
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: can look them up. Look look this uh this guy

609
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: up online. It's it's like s a s u k

610
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 1: e um bonsai shears or look up the video and

611
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: it's it's really insightful. But in this particular video, you

612
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: have this this older Japanese man talking about the crafting

613
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: of the scissors and how long it takes. You know,

614
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 1: like you'll get in, someone will put in a request,

615
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: You'll be like, okay, I need I need a half

616
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: a year or so to uh to figure out what

617
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 1: kind of shears to make for you, you know, and

618
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 1: then he's making it for somebody who is a bonds

619
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: uh practition or somebody who's deeply immersed in the culture.

620
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: And you get the sense of human being sort of

621
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: living to a certain extent too, as to as to

622
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 1: whatever extent is possible for a human being to live

623
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: on the time scale of the trees they care for,

624
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,800
Speaker 1: you know. Uh. And it's really really kind of beautiful

625
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 1: and does get into, I guess, the the meditative aspects

626
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 1: of bonsai tree care. I like the idea that a

627
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 1: lot of these sasuke shears they've got kind of like,

628
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,280
Speaker 1: at least the ones I was looking at online often

629
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 1: have like these long roping kind of handles instead of

630
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: just the normal functional sort of like grippy handles of

631
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 1: garden shears you buy it lows, and the long looping

632
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 1: handles actually make it look like it's kind of made

633
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 1: out of plant growth, you know, it's like the their

634
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: roots in your fingers. Yeah. Yeah, they're very they're beautiful

635
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,399
Speaker 1: to behold. Uh, you have these big looping handles, and

636
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:54,800
Speaker 1: and of course part of it, too, I'm to understand,

637
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,800
Speaker 1: is that you want very precise, very sharp shears because

638
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,359
Speaker 1: the cleaner cut that you get, the healthier it is

639
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 1: for the organism. Oh yeah, that makes sense. You want

640
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: to you wanna like sheer very cleanly instead of crushing, right. Yeah,

641
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 1: And so that's one of the reasons you tend to

642
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,319
Speaker 1: see if not sheers like this, then at least some

643
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 1: other fancy variety of sheers. You know, You're not just

644
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: getting in there with your old rusty garden pruners and

645
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: chopping away, you know, you want something very precise. Uh.

646
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:23,840
Speaker 1: And then also I think it's one of those situations

647
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 1: where the tools are part of the practice, you know. Um.

648
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: But as far as the organism goes, various tree species

649
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,919
Speaker 1: can be bonds eye trees. But there are essentially two

650
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: broad categories here, um, indoor and outdoor. Though uh this

651
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: was in the writing of of Or, who did that

652
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 1: piece for New York Times which I mentioned earlier. I

653
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: will point out that I have seen other people sort

654
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 1: of shy away from the idea of indoor bonds I

655
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 1: and it seemed to imply that true bonds I are

656
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 1: are all outdoor bonds. I. So I'm not sure where

657
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 1: to land on that. But or at any rate, So okay,

658
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: first of all, you have outdoor bonds ie to do

659
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:06,240
Speaker 1: best in temperate regions featuring species such as pine cedar, ginko,

660
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 1: Japanese maple, horn beam, and juniper, and they often require

661
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,720
Speaker 1: a cool dormant period like a you know, winter period,

662
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: and species like the juniper will require overwintering, often in

663
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 1: a greenhouse or a sunroom. And then if you're dealing

664
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 1: with indoor bonds eye according to Or, these are typically

665
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 1: tropical and subtropical plant plants such as uh Ficus, uming

666
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:34,360
Speaker 1: rivia um potocarpus, and dwarf jade. And Or writes that

667
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 1: these require something similar to normal indoor house plant care,

668
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 1: but they also require you know, of course all the

669
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 1: various aspects of bonsai, uh pruning, etcetera. But also they

670
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 1: require more watering due to those shallow pots. Well, so

671
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 1: we've discussed how the shallow pots can help shelter shape

672
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 1: the body of the tree, But obviously another major feature

673
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 1: is what comes in with the pruning itself. So like,

674
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 1: what is the process us of this ongoing care? Okay,

675
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 1: so some of these will be obvious to folks who

676
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,280
Speaker 1: engage in any level of like treat care and outdoor stuff,

677
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 1: but but other stuff is more specific to bonds. I so,

678
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: first of all, trimming is the removal of outer branch tips,

679
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 1: while pruning is the specific removal of individual branches, stems,

680
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 1: or even parts of the trunk. On top of that

681
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 1: you have things like wiring and clamping, and this is

682
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 1: a way to physically guide the growth and shape of

683
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 1: the tree via physical constraints. On top of this, grafting

684
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,399
Speaker 1: is also used. Um as are that you can also

685
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 1: do a certain amount of defoliation, you know, the removal

686
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:39,840
Speaker 1: of of leaves and then deadwood. Bonds Ie techniques involved

687
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,839
Speaker 1: the creation, shaping, and preservation of dead wood on a

688
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: living bond's eye tree to enhance this sense of age.

689
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 1: Oh yes, I I so, I've seen bonsai trees like this,

690
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 1: I think. And there's a very particular aesthetic that is

691
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 1: that actually exists in the natural world, not just in

692
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:02,280
Speaker 1: in human horticulture that that is mimicking that I find

693
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 1: very beautiful. I think a lot of other people do too,

694
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,439
Speaker 1: and I wonder why exactly it is, but it's the Uh,

695
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 1: it's the aesthetic you see in the natural growth of

696
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 1: bristle cone pine trees, where they often have the appearance

697
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 1: of a live tree growing on or within this ancient warped,

698
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 1: twirling piece of dead wood. Do you know what I'm

699
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: talking about? Yeah, yeah, I think I know what you're

700
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 1: talking about. Can picture in my head. Yeah, And there

701
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,839
Speaker 1: is something just intrinsically attractive about it. I don't know,

702
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,720
Speaker 1: it's it doesn't apply to um animals, Like the idea

703
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 1: of like a human coming up dressed in bones generally

704
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 1: not as attractive. But but but this is this is

705
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: bristle cone pines, by the way, are they're particularly known

706
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,439
Speaker 1: I think for for achieving tremendous ages, Like they get

707
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,839
Speaker 1: really really old. There are some of the oldest living organisms,

708
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: and and they really do look like it because again, yeah,

709
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 1: you can see like um, there will be parts of

710
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 1: a tree that are producing foliage, so there's still green,

711
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 1: they're still growing, you know, they're still producing new growth seasonally,

712
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 1: I guess. But down below that it will just be

713
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: what looks like a ten million year old skeleton that's

714
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 1: got these like lollipop twirls of color in it or

715
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 1: like a sorry, like a peppermint twist type of color,

716
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 1: and the branches or these snaking witch fingers without any leaves.

717
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 1: H it's very very cool. So if you're not familiar

718
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 1: with bristle cone pines. Look them up. Now. Another thing

719
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 1: I want to drive them about the bond's eyes again.

720
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 1: The the upkeep and care of a bond's I are

721
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 1: are in their their own way, like a delicate art form.

722
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 1: I was reading a piece in the New York Times

723
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 1: by Makiko in a way and Daniel Victor Um. Apparently

724
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 1: New York Times is just prime reporting uh source for Bonsai. Uh.

725
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,840
Speaker 1: But they this is an article about a story that

726
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 1: was making the rounds at the time. In um this

727
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 1: was bonds I are like our children. Couple pleads for

728
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: return of stolen trees. Uh. And this one had to

729
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,359
Speaker 1: do with a four year old bonds e that had

730
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 1: been stolen that was worth an estimated ninety dollars uh.

731
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 1: The theft was again covered by a number of different

732
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 1: news sources at the time, Bonds I can fetch a

733
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 1: hefty price on the black market. Sadly, I didn't run

734
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 1: across any reporting about this tree being recovered. I mean

735
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:31,240
Speaker 1: maybe it did, and that just didn't make a snazzy

736
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 1: news story for most sources. UM. But one of the

737
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:37,320
Speaker 1: things that they pointed out is that, like if you

738
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 1: were to steal a m high value bonds I tree

739
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,879
Speaker 1: like this, if you didn't know how to care for it, Uh,

740
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 1: if you didn't know the particular things you needed to do,

741
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 1: it could die within a week, you know. So there's

742
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 1: a there's a delicacy to these um these organisms as well.

743
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 1: But I'm also interested in the statement of these people

744
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 1: saying that the bonds are like our children, because it

745
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 1: I mean, you can totally see how that would be

746
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,479
Speaker 1: the case, that it's not just like somebody stole any

747
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 1: other high value item within a home. I don't know,

748
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 1: you know, an expensive painting or something. It is in

749
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: some ways like a child. I mean obviously not that

750
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 1: you know, and it doesn't have a brain or anything,

751
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 1: but it does require care. Well, I like the idea

752
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 1: of comparing it to something like a painting, because yeah,

753
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 1: painting certainly requires a certain amount of care and any

754
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 1: key an occasionally occasionally restoration. But there is and but

755
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 1: there is I guess when it comes to like the bonds,

756
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 1: eye tree and the painting, like, yeah, there's probably a

757
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 1: tipping point with the painting if it's degraded and it's

758
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 1: not cared for, you know, a point past which you

759
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 1: cannot be brought back in a meaningful way, but with

760
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 1: a bonds eye tree, Like, there's definitely that point, you know,

761
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,399
Speaker 1: like there's no there's no gray area, there's a point

762
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 1: where the tree is no longer alive and will not

763
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:54,360
Speaker 1: live again. And yeah, and it's ultimately it is a

764
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 1: living thing. It is a it is a thing that

765
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 1: is cared for, that is nurtured, and you see it

766
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: growing and you know that you have a role in

767
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 1: its growth. Well, I wonder how did all this get started?

768
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 1: Like who first had the idea to grow tiny versions

769
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 1: of adult shaped trees in pots? Yeah, the history is

770
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,760
Speaker 1: pretty fascinating. So in a broader sense and really broad sense,

771
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 1: we can just say, okay, what how far back to

772
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 1: ornamental gardens go? And it seems like they date back

773
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: at least as far as c in ancient Egypt because

774
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 1: we see them depicted in tomb paintings from that period. Uh.

775
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 1: There are also some interesting connections to Babylonian and air

776
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 1: Vedic traditions. Uh. So you know, it's probably one of

777
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 1: the things that's ultimately lost in history because it basically

778
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:40,840
Speaker 1: comes down to all right, people people messing around with

779
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 1: plants and people creating ceramics. Uh, And I guess not

780
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 1: just ceramics, but also like you know, I guess you

781
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 1: can make a wooden pot as well, obviously, but people

782
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 1: messing around with materials, messing around with plants and getting

783
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 1: to the point where they realize, oh, I can I

784
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 1: can put this in a pot. I can take it

785
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 1: with me, uh, you know, instead of just depending say

786
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:01,799
Speaker 1: on dried or maybe I might try and bring this

787
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 1: plant with me as I travel somewhere else, bring it

788
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 1: alive and uh and do something you know with it

789
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 1: when I get there. I would not be surprised if

790
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:13,959
Speaker 1: that was tied into ancient beliefs about herbal medicine. Yeah,

791
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 1: good point, And I think I think maybe that's where

792
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 1: some of the air Vedic traditions also come into play.

793
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 1: But the immediate predecessor to the bonsai practice in Japan

794
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 1: takes us to China around the year one thousand CE.

795
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 1: I've also seen a date of seven hundred CE. Uh.

796
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 1: So there may be some disagreement about you know, when

797
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 1: exactly we're looking at here, but uh, for instance, I

798
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 1: was looking at a source on this by Jack doth.

799
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 1: It often recognized as a Western authority on bonsai practices. Uh.

800
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 1: He has a book titled Bonsai The Art of Living Sculpture,

801
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 1: and he dates the beginnings of Bonsa i uh to

802
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 1: the Han dynasty over two thousand years ago, or not

803
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: the beginning of bonsai, but the beginning of this predecessor

804
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 1: um he wrote. He writes the following in bond the

805
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 1: Anzai Survival Manual. Quote. Legend has it that at one

806
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 1: point an ancient Chinese emperor commissioned the construction in his

807
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 1: courtyard of vast miniature landscapes, complete with mountains, lakes, and

808
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 1: of course miniature trees. These landscapes were designed to represent

809
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 1: all the parts of his empire, so in this way

810
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: he could stand on his balcony and survey his entire domain. WHOA,

811
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 1: and again that I like that story because it gets

812
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 1: back to what we're talking about, like the the irresistible

813
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 1: allure of the world at large made miniature. I absolutely

814
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 1: see that, and you know it comes through in plenty

815
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 1: of other ways too. I think, Uh, this is actually

816
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:39,760
Speaker 1: a primary motivator. I think for a lot of people

817
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:44,959
Speaker 1: who have model train hobbies. Not everyone, but I think

818
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 1: a lot of people who are into model trains. It's

819
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 1: not even so much about the train. I mean, that's

820
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:55,760
Speaker 1: part of it, but it's about it's about a driving

821
00:44:55,840 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 1: excuse to create these miniature landscapes because the miniature landscapes

822
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 1: are so appealing for some reason. I mean, I love them.

823
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 1: I love dioramas, and um, I love like a good

824
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 1: museum that has carefully painted dioramas. I know, you paint miniatures,

825
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 1: so you have this appreciation. Sometimes I wonder if if

826
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 1: some of the people who are into like the model

827
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 1: train thing, or like or like miniature diorama recreations of

828
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 1: historic battle scenes or whatever like that, are are it's

829
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: basically the same impulse that drives uh, you know, people

830
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,440
Speaker 1: who would do D and D or tabletop miniatures, but

831
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:33,279
Speaker 1: for people who don't like magic and wizards. Yeah, I

832
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 1: think it's absolutely the case. Yeah, I mean you see

833
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 1: it in wargaming because there's a lot of that that

834
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 1: same energy that goes into creating the environments in trains.

835
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 1: You see it in creating environments to have your little

836
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:47,319
Speaker 1: battles on. You see it in the Lego pastime among

837
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 1: both children and adult fans of Legos, where they'll create

838
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 1: whole little worlds. And that's that's part of it. Yeah,

839
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 1: And and indeed diorama creation can just be so incredible.

840
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 1: I love a great diorama at at a museum. The

841
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 1: the met has some of the bat I think it's

842
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:06,359
Speaker 1: the Met. Is it the met that has some really

843
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 1: good ones? At any rate, I know I've seen some

844
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 1: dioramas in in New York. But anyway, this particular Chinese

845
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 1: predecessor to the bonsai this is that was the art

846
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 1: of punsai. Uh. These were luxury items of the day

847
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 1: and around roughly Buddhist monks brought the tradition to Japan,

848
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 1: and is often the case, as is off the case

849
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 1: in Japanese culture. They took an outside art form, they

850
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 1: refined it, and they made it their own. As doth

851
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:39,320
Speaker 1: It points out, the main drivers here were the Japanese

852
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 1: people's love of nature uh, but also increasingly in increasing

853
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 1: artistic awareness, and this coupled with the minimalist teachings of

854
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,359
Speaker 1: Zen Buddhism. So all of this gets reflected uh in

855
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 1: it uh and so so yeah, as part of the

856
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:56,239
Speaker 1: Zen Buddhism movement of the time, it takes root in

857
00:46:56,320 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 1: Japanese culture and becomes you know, not only the this

858
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:05,359
Speaker 1: sort of you know, meditative pastime, that is associated again

859
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 1: with Zin Buddhism, but also it becomes the ultimate pastime

860
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 1: of the upper classes. Like it is this the uh

861
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 1: you know, this is a luxury item to have and

862
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 1: to care for and to just keep as a symbol

863
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 1: of of who you are and where you are in society.

864
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:23,839
Speaker 1: According to Robert J. Barron, writing for Bonzai Empire dot

865
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 1: com quote finding beauty and severe austerity, Zen monks with

866
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 1: less land forms as a model developed their tree landscapes

867
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:34,880
Speaker 1: along certain lines so that a single tree in a

868
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 1: pot could represent the universe. So a connection here again

869
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 1: is made between the tree and miniature, and not just

870
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,799
Speaker 1: the world at large, but the universe at what led large,

871
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:46,879
Speaker 1: you know, not just the world as a physical thing,

872
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,719
Speaker 1: but also the world as as far as our you know,

873
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 1: perceptions of self and reality and the soul are concerned. Um.

874
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 1: A connection is also frequently made between the traditions of

875
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 1: caring for the plant and meditation. And during the mid

876
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 1: nineteenth century, as Japan began to make contact with the

877
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 1: outside world again in major ways, the bonds ie tradition

878
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 1: began to spread as well. And so yeah, now you

879
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 1: can find bonds i literally all over the world. That's

880
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 1: interesting to see, especially for certain kinds of meditation, you know,

881
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,800
Speaker 1: the kind of meditation that are focused on the control

882
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:22,480
Speaker 1: of attention, for example, you know, mindfulness types of meditation.

883
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 1: What they have in common, it seems to me, is

884
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:30,799
Speaker 1: that there is this never ending balance between sort of

885
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: the the natural growing chaos of life, which is sort

886
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 1: of like your wandering attention as a as a meditator,

887
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 1: or the growth of a plant in a pot, versus

888
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 1: like all of these sort of like methods of shaping.

889
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 1: You know, you could kind of think of meditation in

890
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 1: one way as a as a shaping of the attention

891
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 1: that naturally wants to grow in one way or another,

892
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 1: but you're just sort of like pruning it down and

893
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 1: and making it harmonious. Yeah. I can't help but to

894
00:48:57,840 --> 00:48:59,800
Speaker 1: compare it, first of all, to creating, say like a

895
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:01,879
Speaker 1: modal tank. You know, you put a lot of care

896
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 1: into creating that tank, but then once it's done, you

897
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 1: can basically put it on a shelf. Yeah, you might

898
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 1: have to dust it off from time to time, maybe

899
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 1: you'll go back and tweak something on it, but it's

900
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 1: essentially complete. Uh. And then I think of of, say

901
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 1: having a you know, an actual child. You know, like

902
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:20,799
Speaker 1: that that is a case where you you're continually help

903
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 1: helping this child to grow, but but in a way

904
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 1: that eventually that child is going to leave you. That

905
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 1: child is going to go on and have this this

906
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 1: larger life and is no longer going to be a

907
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 1: part of your household. The bonds Eye tree is uh,

908
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 1: he is always going to be there, you know, unless

909
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 1: of course, you you you know, you you give it

910
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 1: to somebody else, pass into the care of another, or

911
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:43,319
Speaker 1: or of course ultimately have to make plans for it

912
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:47,360
Speaker 1: to continue living after you have died. But you were,

913
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 1: you were keeping it in this constrained, a dwarf environment,

914
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:53,800
Speaker 1: you know, like you wouldn't want to have you wouldn't

915
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 1: want to have a Bond's eye child, you know that

916
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:58,840
Speaker 1: that would be that would be monstrous. But the Bonds

917
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 1: Eye tree different matter. I don't know. Some people do

918
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 1: sort of prune and wire their children. Well you do

919
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 1: want to wire your children, yeah, you want to. You

920
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 1: want to to to to manipulate their development as much

921
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:14,240
Speaker 1: as possible towards um you know, the positive models of being.

922
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 1: But then you know, eventually you want to, you know,

923
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 1: let him out of the Greenhouse. I don't know, it's

924
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:23,799
Speaker 1: not a perfect metaphor for rearing a child, but at

925
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 1: any rate, I I do see like so much of

926
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:29,440
Speaker 1: the Bonds that is about about control, but not just

927
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 1: control for control's sake, but control for artistic purposes. So um, yeah,

928
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:35,800
Speaker 1: you wouldn't want to take that approach to creating a

929
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:39,319
Speaker 1: child or to growing a child, etcetera. But then again,

930
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:41,239
Speaker 1: also yeah, it doesn't apply the same sort of model

931
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 1: doesn't apply to other forms of art where you do

932
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 1: reach some level of completion. Um if I mean even

933
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 1: if you were saying, if you were to compare it

934
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 1: to say, writing, um, an epic poem, you know, and

935
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 1: perhaps it's an epic poem you work on your entire life,

936
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 1: and then towards the end of your life, uh, you know,

937
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:00,880
Speaker 1: you're still tinkering with it. Maybe you never get quite finished.

938
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:03,239
Speaker 1: But then does that pass on to another person to

939
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:06,919
Speaker 1: get finished and then onto another like generally you're only

940
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:09,400
Speaker 1: going to see, like maybe what a couple of generations

941
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 1: of tinkering with a particular work of literature. Well, this

942
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 1: is very interesting and how it ties into epic poetry

943
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:18,879
Speaker 1: in particular, because it depends on which epic poem you're

944
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:21,239
Speaker 1: talking about. So if it's the a need, you could

945
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 1: just have Virgial the author sits down to write the

946
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 1: epic poem and they you know, Virgil can decide when

947
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:29,160
Speaker 1: he's done tinkering on it mainly. But um, if it

948
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 1: is something like the Odyssey or the Iliad that grows

949
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:34,399
Speaker 1: out of an oral tradition in which every telling of

950
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:38,280
Speaker 1: the tale was different originally, So like the written versions

951
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 1: that we have of the Iliad and the Odyssey are

952
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:44,680
Speaker 1: very is it's extremely unlikely that that was in any

953
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:48,839
Speaker 1: way a fixed form of the poem from antiquity. It's

954
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 1: going to be something that grow out of an oral

955
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 1: storytelling tradition that that had infinite different variations and was

956
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:58,880
Speaker 1: told by different tellers, and at some point some version

957
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,800
Speaker 1: of it got written down. Now that's a great point. Yeah. So,

958
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:03,759
Speaker 1: and in a way you could compare the Bond's Eye

959
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 1: rather favorably to the creation of a myth and a legend,

960
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,959
Speaker 1: you know, because you know, beyond the mere epic poem,

961
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 1: the Iliot is something that is continually retold time and

962
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:15,759
Speaker 1: time again. It continues to live in different forms. We're

963
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 1: we're perpetually trimming it and caring for it, um, letting

964
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 1: it grow out a bit, and maybe braining it back in.

965
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 1: And we see this with other forms as well. I mean,

966
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:26,439
Speaker 1: you could even make an argument for something like Star

967
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:28,800
Speaker 1: Wars being the case. You know, like for a while

968
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:31,919
Speaker 1: it was George Lucas's bonds eye and uh, and then

969
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:34,399
Speaker 1: in different phases it has been passed on to other

970
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:38,120
Speaker 1: people to care for and if it remains popular, this

971
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 1: will continue for centuries even now. To come back to

972
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 1: just a little bit here at the end to two science,

973
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:47,319
Speaker 1: I do want to point to a scientific paper that

974
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 1: I came across, and it deals with the science of

975
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:52,839
Speaker 1: root pruning. So this is pretty neat. I mean, I'm

976
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 1: not gonna get super into the details of the study,

977
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:58,320
Speaker 1: but it does make some great points just about uh,

978
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 1: the wondrous um qualities of a plant's roots. So, plant

979
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:06,040
Speaker 1: roots are naturally robust and regenerative since they're a vital

980
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 1: they're they're vital for water and nutrient absorption. They have

981
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:11,040
Speaker 1: to be able to bounce back from injury really well,

982
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 1: so they have impressive plasticity, which also helps them adapt

983
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:18,959
Speaker 1: to changing environmental circumstances such as drought. And this plasticity

984
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:22,360
Speaker 1: is harnessed in root pruning uh in bonsai as a

985
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:26,359
Speaker 1: way to control size and vigor and industry. Interestingly enough,

986
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 1: there was a seventeen study from Hokkaido University that looked

987
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:34,399
Speaker 1: at the molecular mechanism behind root regeneration to figure out

988
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:37,400
Speaker 1: exactly what's going on, because prior to this there was

989
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:39,400
Speaker 1: you know, there was definitely some strong theories, but the

990
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:43,880
Speaker 1: exact molecular mechanism was largely unknown. That study, published in

991
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 1: Plant and Sell Physiology, identified for the first time that

992
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:52,000
Speaker 1: YUCA nine, one of the eleven Yucca genes involved in

993
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:57,799
Speaker 1: oxen synthesis, plays a primary role in roots system regeneration. So,

994
00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:01,200
Speaker 1: oxen is a plant hormone which causes the elongation of

995
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 1: cells and shoots and is and is involved in regulating

996
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 1: plant growth. Now, to be clear, this particular study didn't

997
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 1: use Bond's eye trees, but they were part of the

998
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:13,840
Speaker 1: title and even the cover art for this edition of

999
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:17,040
Speaker 1: Plant and Sell Physiology has this beautiful photograph of a

1000
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 1: Bond's eye on the cover. Okay, so root regeneration is

1001
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:24,160
Speaker 1: related to this gene that stimulates the production of this

1002
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:30,239
Speaker 1: hormone that causes cells to elongate. Um. And the elongation

1003
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:33,839
Speaker 1: of plant cells, by the way, is something that's very interesting. Uh,

1004
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people don't appreciate how

1005
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 1: much that comes in, even in things as mundane as cooking.

1006
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 1: You know, when we think about body cells, we think

1007
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:44,560
Speaker 1: about cells that are I don't know, I mean, I

1008
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 1: don't know what's the best way to think of them

1009
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 1: in a three dimensional sense, but in the microscope slide

1010
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:51,040
Speaker 1: since you think of them is basically like round or

1011
00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:54,920
Speaker 1: kind of like a little square fried egg. Right. Plant

1012
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 1: cells can be very elongated. And this is one reason

1013
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:02,480
Speaker 1: that if say you're cutting an onion, uh, the direction

1014
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 1: along which you cut the onion can make a big

1015
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 1: difference in how much of the compounds that induced tears

1016
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:11,480
Speaker 1: are released when you're cutting the onions. So if you're

1017
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:15,440
Speaker 1: slicing an onion cross wise, UM, so you're going you know,

1018
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:18,719
Speaker 1: you're creating the rings. You tend to shear a lot

1019
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 1: more cells because the cells are elongated from poll to

1020
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 1: pull along the onion. So you're cutting more cells open,

1021
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 1: releasing more of that juice. It's gonna make you cry more.

1022
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:29,759
Speaker 1: If you turn the onion around and you cut it

1023
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 1: in the pole to pole direction, you're cutting parallel to

1024
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:36,840
Speaker 1: the elongated cells instead of across them. Fewer cells are ruptured,

1025
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:40,120
Speaker 1: less juice is released, and there's less crying. I don't

1026
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:42,719
Speaker 1: really have a problem crying while cutting onions, but I

1027
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 1: definitely need to watch a video on cutting onions because

1028
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:50,279
Speaker 1: I know I'm doing it very incorrectly. I'm very slapdash

1029
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 1: with my onion cutting, and this has been pointed out before.

1030
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:55,880
Speaker 1: I'll give you a trainer someday. Okay, I do a

1031
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,640
Speaker 1: lot of onion cutting. I wonder how many onions I've

1032
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 1: cut up in my life, Like thousands? Yeah? Which which

1033
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:04,760
Speaker 1: color onion do you think you've cut the most off? Oh?

1034
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 1: I guess regular yellow onions probably? Yeah, but do them all?

1035
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 1: I like the purple onions, red onions, oh yeah, yeah,

1036
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 1: those are really good for pickling. You'll ever make pickled

1037
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:17,920
Speaker 1: onions at home? Um? We have maybe have made some

1038
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,440
Speaker 1: like fridge pickles or sort of like I don't know,

1039
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 1: bold pickles for recipes. I don't know what you call

1040
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:25,279
Speaker 1: that when you sort of you pickle something for an

1041
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:29,520
Speaker 1: hour or less. Yeah, not like full lacto fermentation, yeah,

1042
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 1: just simple like vinegar pickling. Um. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's great.

1043
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:36,200
Speaker 1: One of the one of the most versatile things you

1044
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 1: can have in your kitchen is just just a nice

1045
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:41,120
Speaker 1: container of pickled onions. And red onions are great for that.

1046
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 1: So you just make like a brine solutions like half water,

1047
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:46,759
Speaker 1: half vinegar, add some salt sugar if you want it,

1048
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 1: and then pour boil that, pour it over some sliced

1049
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 1: red onions and then put that on everything. All right, Well,

1050
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 1: well there you haven't. I feel like we covered a

1051
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of ground in this episode, and

1052
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:58,600
Speaker 1: obviously we'd love to hear from everybody out there about

1053
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:03,480
Speaker 1: bonsai trees specifically, but also uh, dwarf trees in the

1054
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 1: strange Fluoridian wilderness, onion cutting uh uh you know, all

1055
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 1: of it is on the table. But yes, specifically, if

1056
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:14,640
Speaker 1: anybody out there has expertise with bonsai trees or uh

1057
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:16,680
Speaker 1: you know it has more more experience with them, we'd

1058
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 1: love to hear from you. Uh, so please ride in

1059
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:23,160
Speaker 1: and uh and tell us all about it. Um. And

1060
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:26,920
Speaker 1: I do want to just yea remind everybody when when

1061
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:31,360
Speaker 1: it becomes safe to do so, I do recommend going

1062
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:33,680
Speaker 1: out and seeing some Bond's eyes in real life. You know,

1063
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:37,560
Speaker 1: if uh again, I saw them when I was in

1064
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:39,640
Speaker 1: I think I saw some of the San Diego Zoo,

1065
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 1: and I saw some in the San Francisco somewhere, maybe

1066
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:45,880
Speaker 1: a botanical garden there. But they're all over, and wherever

1067
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:48,240
Speaker 1: you live, there's bound to be some place that will

1068
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:50,960
Speaker 1: be offering you a chance to view them in the

1069
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:53,440
Speaker 1: near future. In the meantime, if you would like to

1070
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 1: check out other episodes of Stuff to Blow Your Mind,

1071
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:57,720
Speaker 1: you'll find the Stuff to Blow your Mind podcast feed

1072
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts and where ever that happens

1073
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 1: to be. We just asked you rate, review, and subscribe.

1074
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:06,240
Speaker 1: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Seth

1075
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:08,680
Speaker 1: Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get in touch

1076
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 1: with us with feedback on this episode or any other,

1077
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:13,160
Speaker 1: to suggest a topic for the future, or just to

1078
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:16,400
Speaker 1: say hi, you can email us at contact at stuff

1079
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:26,360
Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your

1080
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 1: Mind is production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts

1081
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:32,480
Speaker 1: for My Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

1082
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:46,160
Speaker 1: or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows.