WEBVTT - The Gun Runner [8] 0:00:00.680 --> 0:00:03.520 Welcome to the MLK Tapes, a production of I Heart 0:00:03.640 --> 0:00:07.360 Radio and Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:10.440 this podcast are solely those of the podcast author for 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:14.280 individuals participating in the podcast, and do not represent those 0:00:14.320 --> 0:00:18.759 of I Heart Media, Tenderfoot TV, or their employees. Listener 0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:26.640 discretion is advised. After several hours of questioning and cross examining, 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:30.400 Ray told him that there was no such person as Raoul, 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:32.919 and he knew there was no such person as Raoul. 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:36.519 He admitted that and told me that he had to 0:00:36.560 --> 0:00:43.080 invent in vent Rayoul, because that's fuck Hughie wanted. He 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:50.000 suggested something that implied that I had more acuity than Bradford, 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:53.800 Huey and Hayes. I asked him how you happened to 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:57.160 pick the name Raoul, and he said that was the 0:00:57.320 --> 0:01:01.040 name of a operator of a party house that he 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:05.240 had held up, and he admitted there was no Raoul. 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:11.160 He laughed at Haines and Hewish, having accepted Rayoul's story. 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:15.880 That was Percy Foreman, former attorney for James Arl Ray, 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:19.319 telling the House Select Committee in ninety eight that Ray 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:22.479 had told him that the whole story about Raoul, giving 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:25.479 him money and moving him about the country was made up, 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:28.800 and that Ray had done this because the writer Bradford Huey, 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:31.560 who Ray had never met, had wanted him to do it. 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:35.000 According to Foreman, the reason that Ray told him this 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:38.480 but had never told anyone else, was that he respected 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:41.679 Foreman's intelligence, that he knew that Foreman would see through 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:44.959 his lie about Raoul, and according to Foreman, they had 0:01:45.000 --> 0:01:47.360 a good laugh about it. Of course, it may have 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:50.320 been Foreman making up the story here, but if it 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:53.040 were rely on his part, it was a safe one 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:56.000 to tell, because at that time no one had found 0:01:56.000 --> 0:02:02.120 the mysterious Raoul or even claimed to know of him. 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:05.080 I called the Union Hall, I said, a matter of 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:08.160 life and death. I said, I think these people are 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:12.520 planning to kill Dr King. The authorities were parade. Oh, 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:15.440 we found a gun that James ol Ray bought in 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:19.880 Birmingham that killed Dr King. Except it wasn't the gun 0:02:19.880 --> 0:02:25.400 that killed Dr King. James Lvey was upon for the 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:30.480 official story from My Heart Radio, intended for TV. The 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:35.359 plan was to get King to the city because they 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:37.880 wanted it handled in Memphis for dead in them could 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:41.280 hand it. And I've lived with it so long. My Sirion, 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:44.760 and they they scared for me. The Lord told me 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:47.320 to not the word. I've been wanting to tell it 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:52.040 all my life. I'm Bill Claiburg and this is d 0:02:52.200 --> 0:03:02.520 MLK tapes. As we heard in previous episodes, James Earl 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:05.560 Ray escaped from prison in nineteen sixty seven and a 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:07.880 year later found himself in Memphis on the day King 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:11.000 was killed. After he had been captured, he told his 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:13.880 attorneys and anyone else who would listen that he had 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:16.560 met a man in Canada named Raoul who had moved 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:19.080 him about the country and gave him money in exchange 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:22.480 for odd chores. But while most details in race story 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:25.440 proved to be true, for example, the restaurant where he worked, 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:27.520 or the woman with whom he had a brief affair, 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:31.280 no one was able to find Raoul, not a big 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:35.160 surprise because Ray never knew Raoul's last name, where he lived, 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:38.600 or even for Raoul was his real first name, and 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:41.960 Raoul most likely didn't want to be found. The official 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:44.880 explanation for how Ray financed his travels, and the one 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:47.920 embraced by the House Committee, was that instead of getting 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:51.280 money from the fictional Raoul, Ray robbed a bank or two, 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:53.680 and that if he had any help, it came from 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:57.080 his brothers John and Jerry. So for twenty five years, 0:03:57.320 --> 0:03:59.320 no one had come up with a good lead as 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:02.000 to who them his serious Raoul might be, if he 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:07.200 had existed at all. But then after seeing the trial 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:11.520 on television, Roy and Glenna Grabo contacted John Billings and 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:15.320 Ken Herman, who were investigators working with Bill Pepper and 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:19.680 producer Jack Saltman on the HBO trial. We met with 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:24.120 a blended Grabow and rom. She first said, I mean 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:27.320 they they're almost Their openly statement was we know the ray, 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:33.640 but we don't know it's the Rays. And we listened 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:37.279 to her story about her early life in Houston, Texas 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:41.440 and the stories and her meeting and this mysterious Rayoul, 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:45.560 and and after it was over, when they left, I 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:49.479 was convinced that she was a government plan. That's my 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:54.800 disposity is that this is incredible story and it's just government. 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:57.159 They've sent somebody here to discredit us with the story. 0:04:57.240 --> 0:04:59.880 And if we're gonna go chasing this Roman in depart 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:06.880 because we're telling over kids saslation sounds very scared. After 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:10.320 hearing Glenda's story, Herman and Billings brought it to Jack Saltman, 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:12.799 with whom they had begun work on a proposed movie 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:16.560 that would be about the murder of Dr. King. Saltman 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:19.800 also found Glenda's story hard to believe, as he explained 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:26.440 at the civil trial. She claimed that her friendship would Raoul, 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:30.760 had all taken place at you still, and his story 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:34.719 was so extraordinary that when I first heard it, I 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:39.040 had to say that I was profoundly scared. But yes, 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:42.800 we did go to Houston. Um. There was only parts 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:45.560 of the story that I could get corroberational. As a 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:48.560 parts of the story that I could corroborate. We're all 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:52.080 corroborated bits of the story. You turned out to the address, 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:54.719 and he leads you to then more credibility to the 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:58.760 rest of the story. So she gained an increduence. Can 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:02.200 I ask if they say one of this lady, a 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:05.240 very uneducated lady. She left to watch she was very young. 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:08.920 She had a reminous life of abuse when she was young. 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:14.640 By the time Bill Pepper had sat down with Glenda, 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:17.320 thirty five years had passed since she was first abused 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:19.640 by members of her family, but it was still a 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:22.960 hard story for her to tell. According to her husband Roy, 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:26.279 the abuse of Glenda, much of its sexual began when 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:30.040 she was eleven or twelve. When things became intolerable at home, 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:33.000 Glenda went to live with her aunt and uncle, but 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:36.920 things there became even worse. Late at night, Glenda's uncle 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:40.560 would come into her room. What's that is not? My 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:44.080 aunt knew that, but she didn't neventhing about it. And 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:46.920 I would babysit for kids, never night that never want 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:51.479 unique food, I'd say, the kids and and everything cleaned 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:53.239 the table off and made me throw at the trash. 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:58.440 I meant nothing to It's hard to understand the withholding 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:01.160 of food from a niece who was living with them. 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:04.039 Perhaps the aunt allowed herself to believe that Glenda was 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:08.400 somehow responsible for her husband's criminal conduct, and withholding food 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:11.000 was revenge or an attempt to drive the girl away. 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:14.680 Whatever it was, Glenda at age fourteen was in a 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:18.480 horrific situation. But after school she would walk past a 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:21.360 particular gas station and there would usually be this man 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:25.680 just hanging around every day, and he would be easy 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:28.840 to be sitting out over here drinking a coach or something. 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:35.920 Instead giving the tighter chips since step keep me going anyway. 0:07:37.280 --> 0:07:40.480 Conversation and potato chips were a big draw for Glenda, 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:43.040 and she got to know this fellow who was called Dago. 0:07:43.720 --> 0:07:46.600 She thought he was about thirty. He had dark hair 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:49.520 and spoke with something like a Spanish accent, and he 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:52.960 could never pronounce her name. He called her, oh, Linda. 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:55.920 Glenda never saw Dago pump gas at the station, but 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:58.920 he always seemed to be there. Someone else who encountered 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:02.680 Dago was Glenn, his little brother Royce. Here is what 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:06.280 Royce remembers about Daego, as portrayed by a voice actor. 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:10.120 There was a small gas station by a store my 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:12.640 sister and I would walk to, and he would see 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:14.680 us go by, and he would get in his car 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:17.920 and follow us. He used to follow my sister and 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:20.960 I around, you know, in his car. He was kind 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:23.880 of a dark complexed guy. I guess he talked Spanish 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:26.760 or some other you know. That's why he kind of 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:29.360 stood out to me, and and I was kind of 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:33.000 scared of him. But Glenda never had an unkind thing 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:35.960 to say about Daego during this time. At least, she 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:39.000 regarded him as a friend and saw him frequently that 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:42.600 first year, But the next year, when Glenda was fifteen, 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:46.559 she escaped her home life by marrying Roy Grabo. It 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:49.600 wasn't a great trade. Roy was in prison a lot 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:52.040 of the time, and when he was out he often 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:55.520 didn't come home at night. Here going forward are Roy 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:59.640 and Glenda Grabo, as portrayed by voice actors. I just 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:02.400 got to drinking. I wasn't holding the job too long, 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:05.040 but she pretty well went where she wanted to go. 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:07.560 I mean, I was doing what I wanted to do. 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:11.480 I guess I did. Anyway, I stayed drunk pretty good. 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:15.480 Glenda and Roy moved around a bit, but since Roy 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:18.880 was hardly there and not bringing money home, Glenda, as 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:21.880 Roy just said, went where she wanted to go. She 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:24.400 found some men who would pay for her attentions, and 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:27.679 that's how she kept her boat afloat. There was one 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:30.800 older man, maybe fifty five or sixty, who was particularly 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:34.440 fond of Glenda. This name was Tomorrow, though Glenda and 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:37.679 others called him Armando. He would look out for her 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:40.839 in small ways, and in return, she became his driver. 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:45.040 Where would they go down to the Houston Docks? What 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:49.440 would they get there? Stolen guns? And Roy Grabo apparently 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:53.000 knew and approved of Armando. He get her a run 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:56.160 down to the waterfront and carry boxes. They'd have boxes 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:58.400 coming off the ship or going on the ship, some 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:00.360 of the trunk and some of the back. There'll be 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:02.880 certain ones of them, you know, a certain guard on 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:05.520 the game. I have a picture of the guard, a 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:08.319 good one. You can see that. Make sure that certain 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:12.200 guard was there, and they could drive right through. Producer 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:16.400 Jack Saltman, who was investigating Glenda's story, described the arrangement 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:20.360 this way. Well, this is Grever told me that she 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:23.719 had actually as a driver for a morrow, and that 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:26.760 she had driven down to the dark Side in Eastern 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:29.800 and she did profriended us of the garden James and 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:32.880 only certain guards wrong duty. Did she then drive in 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:36.720 the bottom of the game of a certain busy David ship. 0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:41.280 There were wooden boxes which she certainly be discovered contained 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:47.880 the several cousins. According to Glinda, the boxes of guns 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:50.520 would be brought to a rundown house in South Houston, 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:53.440 where they would be assembled. The house belonged to a 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:57.359 man named Felix Torino. They take the over to Felix's 0:10:57.400 --> 0:10:59.000 and I'd go sit in the living room or else 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:01.880 I'll go in the kitchen Felix. Felix was always cooking. 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:04.440 A bunch of them would sit around and put them together. 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:07.680 They would snap them this and that. This was around 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:10.600 nineteen seventy five, and it was during this time that 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:13.880 Glenda arrived at the house with Armando to find Dago, 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:16.280 who she had only seen now and then in the 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:19.280 intervening years. He was sitting there with the rest of 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:22.080 the crew and acting like he was in charge. A 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:25.520 bigger surprise was that Armando turned out to be Dago's uncle, 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:30.840 and Daego's real name was Raoul. Glenda's connection with the 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:34.680 group continued to be Armando. He told Glenda that he 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:38.120 and Raoul had come from Portugal, which explained the accent 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:42.360 that sounded Spanish. Then, while driving around with her one day, 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:46.680 Armando told Glenda that Raoul had been involved in the 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:50.679 killing of Martin Luther King. This is Bill Pepper talking 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:56.040 to Glenda in Was it Armando that first told you 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:58.800 that he was involved, that Raoul was involved in the 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:01.480 in the King case? A minded tell me that I 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:07.000 couldn't believe it, You know, hadly what did Armando actually 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:09.960 say to you? Do you recall the Fando tell me 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:18.240 in a business of daylis with ye together sure bits 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:20.040 and pieces that you were starting to put together with 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:23.120 leading you to believe what that he had involvement or 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:27.480 that he was the actual killer. He was. He admitted 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:29.719 it later that he was killing. He was trying to 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:31.959 keep it from me what it was. He got a 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:34.800 man the mind of visit any mind of tewl made. 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:38.439 Glenda kept her car keys on a ring that also 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:43.160 had a miniature viewfinder which displayed three portraits John Kennedy, 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:47.760 Bobby Kennedy, and Martin Luther King. One day, Armando and 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:51.000 Glenda arrived at to Reno's house and the usual suspects 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:54.840 were sitting around the table playing cards. This is Glenda's 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:58.000 and Roy's account of what happened next, as portrayed by 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:01.840 voice actors. Well, just me and Armando came in, and 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:04.160 I had the viewfinder with me, had the car keys 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:05.920 hooked into it, and threw him a purse and the 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:07.960 keys on the table, and one of them looked at it, 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:11.199 and he threw it over to him. Yeah, and then 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:13.360 he looked through it and jumped backwards and the chair 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:17.040 hit the floor and he started stomping on the ground. Uh, 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:21.160 just keep going they're gonna be okay. Tell him, oh, 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:24.120 I don't cuss or nothing. Well, don't worry about it, 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:27.480 just say s O P or whatever. He just said, 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:30.760 I killed that s O B once, Do I have 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:33.880 to do it again? I never understood him saying it 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:55.480 that way, but that's the way they talked. The boy 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:57.720 that he had a fight with was a karate expert 0:13:58.040 --> 0:13:59.920 and they got in a fight inside a bar over 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:03.080 a topless dancer. My brother kind of had a girlfriend 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:05.920 that was a topless dancer. At shy In Social Club 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:11.040 in night, Roy Grabow's younger brother got into a scrape. 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:15.840 It involved alcohol, guns and a girl. They had a 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:20.240 fight inside and the boy knew karate and all that stuff. Well, 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:22.480 a friend of my brothers had a gun. He gave 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:24.400 my brother a gun and my brother ran him out. 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:27.040 They broke the fight up inside. The owner of the 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:29.200 club he broke it up and run that boy off. 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:32.720 That boy stayed outside. About an hour later, my brother 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:35.080 went out and he had something in his hand. They 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:37.280 didn't know if it was a gun or what, but 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:39.960 they said he had a gun. Anyway, this other boy 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:41.960 gave my brother back the gun and my brother shot 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:44.400 him dead and they got him for murder and they 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:48.080 gave him eighty years. Roy and Glenda both felt that 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.120 Royce brother had gotten a raw deal and they decided 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:54.120 to do what they could. This was still in seventy 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:56.520 eight and they were living in Houston and had heard 0:14:56.720 --> 0:14:59.720 that when it came to fighting a murder charge, Percy Foreman, 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:02.560 who was also in Houston, was the best there was. 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:05.720 So they called Foreman and asked if he would handle 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:10.120 the appeal. Here is Roy and Glenda. I called Percy 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:12.680 Foreman and he said he would handle it for five 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:15.600 thousand dollars, and he wants that five thousand dollars right 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:18.560 there before I leave, a look at you. Roy and 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:21.640 Glenda didn't have five thousand dollars, so they put a 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:24.640 mortgage on their house, and when they gave him the money, 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:27.840 Percy Foreman did look at Roy and Glenda, but mostly 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:31.960 at Glenda. Had a subsequent meeting, Foreman started to pester her, 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:35.320 asking Glenda if she would like to work for him. 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:37.480 I went up there, but he got mad, sort of 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:39.920 because I wanted to paint houses, or he wanted me 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:42.280 to stay right there. He was going to move his 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:44.520 office or something. He wanted me to get past the 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:46.960 secretary and out of the office or something while they 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:48.920 made their move when I don't understand what he was 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:52.720 talking about them. By the time producer Jack Saltman got 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:55.280 down to Texas and was looking in the Glendas story, 0:15:55.720 --> 0:16:00.080 Percy Foreman had died, but Michael Degaron, Foreman's partner the 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:03.600 law firm, was still there. So Saltman took a shot 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:06.160 and asked to Garon if he had any recollection at 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:10.280 all of Glenda Grebo. Turns out he did. As Jack 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:15.040 Saltman describes, Mrs Grebo had said that she had told 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:17.760 me as part of her statement that her husband Roy 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:22.800 his brother, was on a birdy charge and that she 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:26.520 had been termed with Percy Thornan was the topman in 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:31.080 the business that had gone along to see it. She 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:33.440 said that he had said he would charge her five 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:36.600 thousand dollars, but that she would give her three thousand 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:39.600 dollars back if she went to work for them. She said, 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:42.120 I paid houses. What is that going to be? What 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:45.040 us is that going to be? Fro an attorney, He said, 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:48.480 what I want you to be? Some fire um. I 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:51.360 gathered the fighting was of the more sexual nature, and 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:57.560 this was Acknoledge fires instead Garren and that that's really 0:16:57.560 --> 0:17:00.720 what she was asked to do. She ever got the money. So, 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:04.359 according to Foreman's partner Michael Degaron, Glenda did work of 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:07.399 some kind for Foreman, but she never got the money 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:11.160 she was promised. As we have seen before, not honoring 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:15.000 his promises was Foreman's standard way of doing business. But 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:19.080 he did give Glenda one thing. Mrs Grebo gave me. 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:22.840 It was a Cartrooto bestI Foreman, and he had inscribed 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:27.520 to her in his own handwriting. Saltman called it a cartoon, 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:29.720 but what he meant to say was that it was 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:33.080 a reproduction of a somewhat flattering line drawing a Foreman 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:37.560 on which he had written to Glenda, best wishes, Percy Foreman, 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:41.840 You're invited to check it out on our website. Michael 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:47.720 Garrett Hardy confirmed that that was posie of handwriting, and 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:49.960 then he was exactly the sort of thing that he did. 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:54.480 So Glenda Grebo ended up spending time around Foreman's office, 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:58.200 mostly cleaning and doing make work filing jobs. Bill Pepper 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:01.520 would ask Glenda if Foreman ever mentioned ray or the 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:04.959 King case, But we didn't even know it was his lawyer. 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:07.879 We had no idea. We'd seen things in his office, 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:10.080 you know, little things that were about Ray, and we 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:12.320 didn't pay much attention to it, and I didn't know 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:15.600 he was raised lawyer. But at some point when they 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:18.359 were alone, Foreman felt a need to tell Glenda what 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:21.840 an important man he was. He told her that he 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:24.439 was the lawyer and the king case, the lawyer for 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:28.560 the infamous James Earl Ray. Then he said something else, 0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:32.120 something about that all white people is going to thank 0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:36.880 Ray someday for being sacrificed, for being the sacrifice for us. 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:41.760 Pepper then asked Glenda what Foreman said about Ray, something 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:44.000 about his brother sold him up the river, or something like, 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:46.960 I don't understand we're talking about, but I remember that part. 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:51.679 Until this point, Glenda is the Foreman a plaything of 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:55.600 no consequence because he doesn't know what she knows about 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:58.280 Raoul and what Raoul said he did and what his 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:02.440 uncle Morrow said he did. But then Glenda makes a mistake. 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:06.680 She thinks, because Foreman is a lawyer and already involved 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:09.640 in the case, an educated man up presumed the good 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:14.720 character that he is someone she can talk to. I figured, well, 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:17.359 I found somebody that knows something about this. I'm going 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:19.920 to tell him about it, you know. But I went 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:23.639 to the wrong person. I think. Glenda then told Percy 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:27.240 Foreman about how she knew Raoul and how she thought 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:31.080 he had been involved. I thought I was talking to somebody, 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:34.639 you know, somebody with authority, just talk about it. I 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:37.600 had no idea he was this liar. I didn't know 0:19:37.600 --> 0:19:40.280 what was going on or nothing. I just just didn't 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:45.760 know where to turn. So Glinda tells Foreman about Raoul. 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:50.560 Foreman is surprised and deeply disturbed. Just a few months before, 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:53.560 he testified before the House Select Committee and been caught 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:56.400 in a number of outright lies about how he entered 0:19:56.440 --> 0:19:58.680 the case and what he did and didn't do for Ray, 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:02.760 about hiring loss students to do investigative work and lying 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:05.639 under oath to a congressional committee could have cost him 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:08.960 his license, but since Foreman was on the Ray did 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:11.879 It Alone team, he got off with only a scolding, 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:15.360 and nobody challenged him about his dubious story about Ray 0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:18.120 telling him and only him that Raoul was a made 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:22.199 up guy. But now suddenly Foreman had working in his 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:25.399 very office a woman who might blow his whole world apart, 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:29.560 and this is where the story gets really weird, because 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:33.359 Percy Foreman, former attorney for James ol Ray, appears to 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:37.719 know the elusive Raoul. As Jack Saltman describes the situation 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:41.159 when she told Raoul cooking to his story, when she 0:20:41.240 --> 0:20:45.800 told Raoul that she was working to Percy Foreman, he 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:48.960 apparently lost his temper and there was curious word between 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:53.840 him and pressing forward. Foreman then allegedly ranging up and 0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:58.480 so your life is in danger. There are no witnesses 0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:02.160 to this conversation, but apparently the two men exchanged heated 0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:05.879 words on the phone. Raoul, we might guess, is furious 0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:08.840 that Foreman has for his own pleasure taking Glenda on 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:12.399 as part time office help, and Foreman most likely is 0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:15.800 angry that Raoul and his friends have told Glenda thinks 0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:18.760 that she should not know. The danger for each man 0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:21.399 is real and it can be measured in words, because 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:24.440 the next time Foreman sees Glenda, he tells her that 0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:27.399 she must leave town or be killed because of what 0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:30.800 she knows. Maybe by telling her this he was just 0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:33.919 trying to save her life. More likely, he has his 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:37.399 own interests in mind. Perhaps he fears a violent encounter 0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:40.840 between Roy and Raoul, or a botched murder attempt that 0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:43.959 drives Glenda to the police, better to just have her 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:47.000 leave if he can get her to go. You got 0:21:47.000 --> 0:21:49.640 to get out of town or something. And then he said, 0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:51.359 he talked to Raoul, but I don't know if he 0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:53.400 came up there, talked to him on the phone or what. 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:56.520 He kind of sort of threatened me. He sort of 0:21:56.560 --> 0:21:59.040 put it like, he gotta get out of town or 0:21:59.119 --> 0:22:06.440 you ain't even gonna here. From what Glenda could understand, 0:22:06.640 --> 0:22:10.320 Percy Foreman and Raoul seemed to know each other. Foreman 0:22:10.440 --> 0:22:13.800 was a criminal defense attorney. He might have represented Raoul 0:22:14.000 --> 0:22:16.040 or some of his cohorts when they got into trouble, 0:22:16.400 --> 0:22:19.440 because defending criminals is what Foreman did for a living. 0:22:20.000 --> 0:22:22.879 Knowing his way around and being on friendly speaking turns 0:22:22.880 --> 0:22:26.480 with local hoodlums was good business. Did Foreman know of 0:22:26.600 --> 0:22:30.680 Raoul before the King murder? That would be utterly outrageous, 0:22:30.920 --> 0:22:33.760 but he may have. He certainly seemed to know him 0:22:33.840 --> 0:22:37.000 or know of him after the murder. In any case, 0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:39.919 Glenda and Roy took the thread at face value and 0:22:40.040 --> 0:22:42.480 moved as fast as they could. But there was a 0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:46.080 house to sell. So it didn't happen right away. One day, 0:22:46.080 --> 0:22:49.120 Glenda was alone in her car. I just come back 0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:51.880 from Cols and I hit the freeway. The wheel come off, 0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:54.840 and the semi truck was right on my tail. I've 0:22:54.880 --> 0:22:57.480 looked in my rearview mirror. I said, oh God, here 0:22:57.520 --> 0:23:00.240 I go. I knew I was dead rat. Then it 0:23:00.400 --> 0:23:03.919 just served out of the way, just in time. Pepper 0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:06.000 then asked if they thought that someone had loosened the 0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:08.480 lux and there was no doubt at all in Roy 0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:12.040 Grabo's mind. It had to be. It had to be. 0:23:13.240 --> 0:23:16.800 Roy and Glenda Grabo moved from Texas to Mississippi sometime 0:23:16.840 --> 0:23:20.600 in nineteen nine, and they never heard from Percy Foreman again. 0:23:21.359 --> 0:23:25.880 But then they saw something on TV. It was called 0:23:26.119 --> 0:23:47.720 the Trial of James Earl. Ray King met with Glenda 0:23:47.840 --> 0:23:53.080