WEBVTT - What did Teddy Roosevelt do to Dr. Seuss?! 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:06.240 Welcome to Part Time Genius, the production of I Heart Radio. 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:14.800 I guess what Will Ah, that's right, Will is not 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:17.560 here today. Actually before this episode, Will told me he 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:21.040 loves Teddy Ruxpin and Teddy Pendric guest, but he has 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:24.480 zero interest in Teddy Roosevelt, which is what today's episode 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:26.920 is all about. So of course I led him off 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:30.960 the hook. But me, I love Teddy Roosevelt, and one 0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:32.599 of the things I love most about him is that 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:35.040 every story you hear about the man is better than 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:37.559 the last. He gave the White House its name, he 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:40.239 invited the first black man over for dinner there. He 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:42.560 made things like national parks, but he also tried to 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:45.600 bring hippos to the US as a meat source, like 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:47.400 he actually wanted to farm hippos in to buy you 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:51.120 and get people into hippo bacon. He walked his pet 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:54.480 bear around on a leash, and one time in Montana 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:56.760 this guy called him four Eyes, and even though the 0:00:56.840 --> 0:01:00.160 dude had two loaded guns on him, Teddy casually noted 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:03.960 him out. I mean, the stories are insane, but I 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:08.120 have so many questions, from whether Roosevelt once actually climbed 0:01:08.120 --> 0:01:11.319 a mountain of a spite to what we're Teddy's productivity, 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:15.520 life hacks, and also what is big stick energy. So 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:40.360 we're diving into all of that. Let's dig in. Hey there, 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:43.240 podcast listeners, it's mong Issue Tiler. You're listening to part 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:47.360 time genius and my co founder, co host Will Pearson, 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:50.000 decided not to come in today. It is such a 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:52.480 mistake because Lowell is wearing a shirt with the words 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:54.680 Emily Spinach on it. It's got a picture of a 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:57.240 cartoon garter snake, and I'm guessing it has something to 0:01:57.280 --> 0:01:59.560 do with Teddy Roosevelt because he always plans for these things. 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:02.080 But we'll have to ask our guest today about that. 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:06.080 But I am here with a wonderful Aaron McCarthy. Aaron 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:08.639 is the editor in chief of Mental Class position I 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:11.960 used to have years ago, and she's an old friend. 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:14.079 Some of her interviews and articles are still some of 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:16.280 my favorites on the site. She's the one who told 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:18.880 me all about jelly bellies, disastrous attempt to make a 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:23.280 pizza flavored jelly bean, and uh also the oral history 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:26.840 of traffic keepers. But today she's here to talk exclusively 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:31.560 about a different obsession, Teddy Roosevelt. Hey, Aaron, so I 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:34.120 want to get into your new podcast, History Versus, which 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:36.960 is all about Teddy Roosevelt. And I'm not sure if 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:39.639 you know this, but I years ago I desperately tried 0:02:39.680 --> 0:02:42.160 to get Teddy Roosevelt on the cover of Mental Floss. 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:44.960 I did not know. I mocked up a version of 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:48.720 him cutting like karate chopping aboard like in a Judo 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:53.000 and no one else dug it. But it's still in 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:57.440 the So tell me, how is it that you got 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:00.440 so obsessed with Teddy Roosevelt. So you I feel like 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:02.920 when you work at Mental Floss, history is kind of 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:05.840 your thing. It's just like, yeah, I mean, it's just 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:08.679 like it somehow becomes part of everything that you do. 0:03:09.080 --> 0:03:10.600 And so, you know, I knew a little bit about him. 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:12.960 I was like, oh, yeah, you know the conservation president. Um, 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:14.800 he liked to hunt things. And that was sort of 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:18.359 where my knowledge ended. And then I took a fateful 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:21.120 trip to the Strand bookstore and I was just kind 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:23.160 of wandering and looking at the shelves as I want 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:26.640 to do, and I saw Colonel Roosevelt by Edmund Morris, 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:28.720 and I was like, Okay, I'll just like pick this 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:30.720 up and I'll read this like, I don't know that 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:33.440 much about t R. It's gonna be interesting. I didn't 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:36.440 know it was the third book in a trilogy. Um. 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:42.240 So I read it, and uh, it was amazing. I 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:44.960 cried at the end on the subway, like a real weirdo. 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:46.600 And so then I had to go back and read 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:49.520 the others and then it was just like, you know, 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:51.400 full speed ahead from there. I was just like, did 0:03:51.400 --> 0:03:53.880 you know that Theodore Roosevelt did this? And did you 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:55.640 know that he did this? And now I just can't 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:59.400 stop talking about him ever and making a podcast about him. 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:02.560 So that's great. And it didn't confuse you to start 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:04.800 with the third one, like it was like starting with 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:06.960 Back to the Future three or something. Yeah, I don't know. 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:10.120 I mean I was just kind of like, hmm, maybe 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:11.640 I should have gone back to get the other ones, 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:13.360 but I just didn't like it just didn't even occur 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:14.800 to me. And by then I bought it, so I 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:16.240 was like, well, you know, I'm just going to read 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:18.800 this and then you know, you go back and I 0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:22.000 actually I feel like I read them. I read the 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:23.760 third one, the first one, and then the second one, 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:28.160 so it was like really weird. Um, But I came 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:30.160 out of it knowing so much more about him and 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:33.080 just being totally obsessed. So it's amazing how your series 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:36.279 is structured, because it's like history versus and in different 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:39.480 aspects that Teddy Roosevelt's babbling. And I wanted to start 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:42.080 with time because I have no idea how he managed 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:44.000 to get so much into a day. Oh me either, 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:48.440 me either, And it's just baffling, baffling, Like it makes 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:51.880 you tired when you read about how productive he was. 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:56.719 I just strive for that energy every single day, every day. Well, 0:04:56.760 --> 0:04:58.920 I mean even as a college student. You think, like 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:01.840 college students should be lethargic or whatever, but like, like 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:04.880 his schedule that you lay out is insane, right, yeah, 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:06.599 And I mean that's part of what made him so 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:09.960 productive was that he just had this devotion to a schedule. 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:12.320 And what he would do is he would block out 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:15.120 his time, which allowed him to be more productive. You know, 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:17.040 I spoke with productivity experts and they were like, this 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:19.440 is the key. Obviously he had a lot of energy, 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:22.000 which helped a lot, but you know, he was just 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:24.920 really really focused and he blocked out his time. And 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:28.400 apparently all the super productive people in history, well maybe 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:30.720 not all of them, but many of them do that. 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:32.560 You know, they'll say, this block of time is for 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:34.280 reading my book. And you know, he had the schedule 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:36.040 from when he was on the campaign trail, and it 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:38.039 was literally every hour and a half an hour was 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:39.960 blocked out. He had something else going on, and that 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:43.320 allowed him to be super focused and super productive. Well, 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:45.200 the other thing is that he was also like, not 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:47.080 only was he reading and doing all these things and 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:50.800 writing letters, but you're just giving speeches NonStop to all 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:52.880 the time. It's insane. I wonder if he ever got 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:54.680 tired of the sound of his own voice, because like, 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:56.480 I sometimes get tired of this end of my own 0:05:56.560 --> 0:06:00.200 voice as I'm sitting in the studio podcasting, Like uh, 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:03.000 I read somewhere that he had a distinctive voice though 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:05.600 too right, he did. He spoke with this really distinctive 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:07.760 style and some people actually think he had a speech 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:10.040 impediment as a kid. But he had this kind of 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:14.200 high pitched voice and he would distort words. So there's 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:16.920 this story that Edmund Morris tells about how when he 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:19.760 was in the New York State Assembly, he would just 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:23.520 yell Mr Speaker, Mr Speaker, like forty times, just over 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:26.599 and over until the speaker would acknowledge him. You know. 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:29.480 So he was he was a weirdo. They always talk 0:06:29.520 --> 0:06:31.919 about his teeth. One of my favorite things that I 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:34.599 learned from this podcast is that people talked about his 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:36.680 teeth all the time. And so when he was police 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:40.120 Commissioner of New York, Vendors Street Vendors used to make 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:42.960 these whistles and they were Roosevelt whistles and they had 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:47.000 his his teeth. Yeah, and uh, I mean, I'm assuming 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:48.760 they were really cheap because I can't find any of 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:52.559 them on eBay. I've looked, but yeah, like his teeth 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:56.640 were just so um distinctive, you know, just like really 0:06:56.680 --> 0:06:59.560 white and square, and he was always just like chomping 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:02.000 on word. That's funny because I guess if you think 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:04.120 about like the caricatures of him, they do have that, 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:06.800 but it's not something that I had picked up on. Well, 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:10.160 now you're going to notice, Well, he also used to 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:12.920 put those teeth to good use for meals, right, Like 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:16.960 he was a big eater. Oh, big eater, huge eater. Yeah, 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:19.600 and you know, like pretty plain stuff. He wasn't like 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:23.080 um into super duper fancy foods. But yeah, he ate 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:25.440 a lot, so when he wasn't being his active he 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:30.080 got kind of chunky and it made him sad. Yeah. 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:34.160 The other thing I didn't realize was how much coffee 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:38.040 he drank so much, so like a gallon a day. Yeah, 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:40.680 I mean, and what was his his son something that 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:44.360 said something like his coffee mugs resembled a bathtub. It's 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:46.640 more in the nature of a bathtub. And actually, if 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:50.080 you go to the birthplace in New York, they have 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:52.560 like a tea cup of his and it's huge. It's 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:56.240 it's huge. Um, yeah, it's really it's really big. And 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:58.280 now at the gift shops in some places they actually 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:00.560 sell a bull Moose coffee mug that's really big. So 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:02.960 I obviously bought one, Um, and I drank my coffee 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:05.560 out of it exclusively now because I too have a 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:09.400 bit of a caffeine problem. Not that badly, but pretty 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:12.400 pretty bad. Well, tell me a little bit about his childhood, 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:15.240 because I feel like you think about Teddy Roosevelt and 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:18.640 you imagine him as this super rugged person, which he was. 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:21.240 But he grew up in New York City partially. Yeah, 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:22.760 so he was born in New York City in eight 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:25.400 and um, you know, he was born to a very 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:29.440 wealthy family. His father, Uh, the family business was plate 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:33.199 class importing. But yeah, it's weird, right, And I think 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:37.720 his father was eighth generation Dutch New Yorker. But his 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:41.000 father the was basically a professional philanthropist. He gave money 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:44.520 away like crazy, and he supported a lot of causes 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:47.880 like the Newsboys lodging House, and he would bring the 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:50.600 kids along to go down there. So service was like 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:53.440 a really big part of his life growing up. His 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:55.400 father also was part of the founding of the American 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:58.240 Museum of Natural History and the Metropolitan Museum of Art. 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:01.280 So like this guy was just give away money, making 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:05.160 it rain towards worthy causes all the time. So tr 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:07.840 was born. He was the second child, first son. He 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:11.040 had his first asthma attack at age three, and he 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:13.800 had asthma so badly that he would have to sleep 0:09:13.840 --> 0:09:16.320 sitting up. His parents really didn't think he was going 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:19.400 to live to see his fourth birthday. They would make 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:22.000 him drink black coffee and smoke cigars to try to 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:25.880 get him breathe, which makes no sense, but you know, 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:29.200 at that day, it was in that day, it was 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:31.720 you know, that was a cutting edge and you know, 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:33.480 when you're when your kid is sick, you're willing to 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:37.000 do basically anything that you think is going to help. So, um, 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:38.640 you know, his father would put him in the carriage 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:42.240 and and go for these wild rides down the road 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:45.880 trying to force air into try to try to get 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:49.000 him to to breathe. And you know back then, I 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:52.000 mean asthma is still it can be fatal today, but 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:54.880 back then it was it was really bad. So yeah, 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:58.080 he was this this sickly little kid, but well traveled. 0:09:58.120 --> 0:09:59.680 So you know, they lived in New York and the 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:02.040 family would go out. They would spend summers in New 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:04.160 Jersey or out on Long Island just to kind of 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:07.480 get the fresh air tier and his mother would go 0:10:07.559 --> 0:10:10.520 to these like health spas where they would take the 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:12.440 waters or do whatever it is that you did in 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:14.880 that day to try to make yourself healthier. Um. And 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:17.400 they toured Europe and they did the same sort of 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:19.840 thing over there. So yeah, he had this kind of crazy, 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:24.120 crazy childhood where he was all over the place and uh, 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:26.800 you know, just like a sick, sick little kid. And 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:29.760 then when he was a teenager or just about to 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:32.680 be a teenager, his father said to him you have 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:35.880 the mind, but not the body, and so you have 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:38.199 to build your body. And so now we think of 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:40.559 him as this robust guy, and he really built himself 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:44.079 up to be that robust guy. He basically they built 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:46.160 a little gym out on the piazza and he would 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:51.360 be out there like lifting weights and pull ups and yeah. Yeah, basically, 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:53.480 like that was kind of what it was like. Although 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:55.800 I guess there was like a beautiful garden in the 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:58.240 back yard or whatever, so he would be like lifting 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:01.560 weights and looking out over the garden and um and uh. 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:04.400 And then he took up boxing because he actually took 0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:06.880 this trip up to I want to say moose Head 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:09.320 Lake in Maine. But he met these kids on the 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:11.440 stage coach on the way up there, and they just 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:13.360 beat the crap out of him. And so you know, 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:15.640 he's like, I've been lifting weights for two years, why 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:18.480 can't I like take on these kids. And so then 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:22.040 he was like, I'm going to take up boxing. So um, 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:24.319 he became a lifelong boxer, at least until he got 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:26.960 punched in the eye and lost part of the site 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:28.839 in his eye. As president at the house that's the 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:31.760 White House. Yeah, and then it was like no more boxing, 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:35.800 so that's when he took up judo, anything to stay active. 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:40.000 It reminds me of the Jersey Shore where like all 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:44.880 these people can't fight, but they lift weights. Yeah, but 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:47.839 if you have that much focus towards any activity, I'm 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:49.600 sure you just get great at it, right, Like if 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:52.480 he had that same focus as a child, well, and 0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:55.160 I mean like and he applied that same focus to 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:58.960 everything he did all throughout his life, so you know, 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:00.960 and I mean I think it helped that his father 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:03.560 was the one to kind of push him. He worshiped 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:05.800 his father, and you can sort of see how that 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:08.000 plays out throughout the rest of his life in a 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:10.959 lot of really interesting ways. But his father told him 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:14.320 weakness is a shame and often a sin. And you 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:17.600 can imagine if you worship your father and your father 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:21.200 tells you that, like what would happen or how you 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:23.560 would act down the line to kind of not be 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:27.320 not show your weakness. So whenever he has any kind 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:29.200 of major tragedy in his life, he just just like 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:31.440 he doesn't show it, he doesn't talk about it, he 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:33.640 acts like it didn't happen. And I think you can 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:36.120 trace that back to not wanting to show weakness. Ah, 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:38.200 there's so much good stuff, but we need to pause 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:54.880 more with Aaron after the break. Okay, So we're here 0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:58.079 with Aeron McCarthy and Mental Flaws talking about Teddy Roosevelt 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:02.000 as a child. I know from the podcast that he 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:05.240 had a snapping turtle that he like strapped to a 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:09.400 sink or something and tried to train a woodchuck. Yeah. Yeah, 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:14.680 so he I mean, I don't think it was, but 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:17.360 you know he was going to try, so he you know, 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:18.920 growing up in New York, you sort of feel like 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:21.360 maybe you're not going to see a lot of nature, 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:23.719 but there's actually a lot of nature all around you 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:26.520 in New York, which I can attest to. So one 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:28.719 day he was walking down the street. He was going 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:30.599 to get strawberries from the market or something, and he 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:33.400 saw a dead seal at the market and it just 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:35.800 kind of like his whole life in New York. Yeah, 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:37.680 it had been swimming in the harbor and somebody killed 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:41.640 it and which poor seal. But you know, they brought 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:43.280 it up and they I guess we're trying to sell 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:45.600 it or something. And so he saw it and he 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:48.800 was like, I need to know everything about this seal. 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:50.760 So he was measuring it and he really wanted to 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:53.920 bring it home with him, which he only imagined what 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:56.520 people would have thought at his house. But he ended 0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:58.600 up bringing the skull home and then that sort of 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:02.199 kicked off this obsession with nature, and so he would 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:06.000 just bring things home living dead. He keep them in 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:08.360 his room. He had the snapping turtle. Um, I feel 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:11.480 like there were some squirrels that he raised by hand 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:14.520 or something. I mean, he was just obsessed with obsessed 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:16.800 with nature. And it's a funny thing too, because you know, 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:20.600 I think today we kind of think to ourselves, like, well, 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:23.000 how could someone who loved nature so much go out 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:26.040 and hunt like he did? As someone told me, that's 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:28.880 very like twenty one century attitude. Back in the day, 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:31.479 there wasn't a difference between being a hunter and a scientist. 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:34.160 You know, if you wanted to know about animals, if 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:36.520 you wanted to study them, you kind of had to 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:39.000 kill them and see what made them work. And so 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:43.280 he did that a lot. Yeah. So now it's hard 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:46.760 hard to reconcile those things, right it is now, yeah, 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:49.080 but not back then. It was just it was it 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:52.280 was the thing. One thing that I think is is 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:55.520 interesting that came up in the course of researching this 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:58.040 is that you know, a lot of hunters of that 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:02.200 day were the first con revationists because they could see, 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:06.240 you know, that animal populations were depleting, and so they said, 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:08.000 you know, we need to take care of these like 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:10.000 if we want to still be hunting them many years 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:11.360 in the future, we need to make sure that the 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:15.440 populations are managed. And so you'll see that, and you'll 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:18.520 see that today. Like if you are a hunter and 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:20.480 you pay for a hunting license, a lot of times 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:24.960 that goes back to conserving animal populations. Protecting animal populations, 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:28.040 you know, So if you pay for a permit to 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:30.360 shoot a bear, which makes me sad, but it's a 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:33.960 thing that happens um that goes back to helping bears. 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:36.120 So it's one of those things. I'm actually surprised more 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:39.760 people didn't yell at me about that Nature episode because 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:43.560 I'm a big believer in scientific collections. Yeah, that's the 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:46.520 thing that's kind of controversial these days. Yeah, I mean 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:50.720 they inspire so much wonder you know, and and just 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:53.120 being at the museums and stuff. If you couldn't have 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:57.480 seen all these wonderful taxidermy things, right, Like, it's hard 0:15:57.520 --> 0:16:01.360 to imagine being as interested in at least for me. Yeah, 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:03.880 And you know they have in the back rooms and 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:07.640 museums they have just drawers and drawers filled with specimens. 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:11.360 We went to see like the Hippo's Hippo skulls, which 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:14.560 was incredible. They're so cool, They're massive, they're huge. It's like, 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:19.000 how can you figure out, for example, if mercury levels 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:22.080 are rising in the world's oceans, Well, you can go 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:24.400 back and you can look at the feathers of seabirds 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:28.400 in scientific collections and you can prove that mercury is 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:31.520 rising in the ocean. If you didn't have those specimens, 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:36.320 you couldn't make that discovery. So that's kind of important. 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:40.280 The way that scientists collect today is not like it 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:42.760 used to be. I mean I feel like, especially for 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:44.840 t R, he would go out and he would just 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:49.200 be like, I'm a bag everything I can bag science. 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:52.080 In high school, I saw Bill Clinton was going to 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:56.920 Africa and they were contrasting his trip there with like 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:00.520 Teddy Roosevelts, and it just listed out all animals he 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:04.840 shot hundreds and hundreds hundreds of animals. Yeah, Yeah, And 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:06.919 they went to the Museum of Natural History. They went 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:10.120 to the Smithsonian. There are some like I guess ticks 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:13.639 that came from those animals or in a collection of 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:17.560 ticks down in Georgia or something, and I was like, 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:20.160 I want to go there, but maybe one day. Well. 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:23.200 The other thing that's interesting to me is that Roosevelt. 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:25.800 You think of him as such a collector, right, he 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.439 has this like little museum in his house or in 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:31.200 his room or whatever, and and and he's always contributing 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:35.760 to things and whatever. Jefferson also kind of had that inclination, right, 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:39.399 like he collected fossils and whatever. But Roosevelt did not 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:45.200 like rated him so much, hated him. Well, one, Jefferson 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:48.360 was a constitutionalist, right, so he really believed, at least 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:52.720 my understanding of it is he believed that the president's 0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:56.760 powers were limited to what was written specifically in the Constitution. 0:17:57.240 --> 0:17:58.680 And I think he kind of bent the rules a 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:01.240 little bit for the Louisiana purchase, but otherwise it was 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:04.639 basically like, the Constitution is what it is. And tr 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:07.240 was was a Hamiltonian and he sort of thought, well, 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:10.000 you know, if it's not expressly forbidden by law or 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:14.080 the Constitution, I can kind of do what I want, 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:17.480 and he did so I think it has something to 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:19.960 do with that. He also had an issue with the 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:24.560 way that Jefferson dealt with George Washington, or like tried 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:28.960 to undermine George Washington, and Washington tr held up to 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:31.680 a pretty high He put him on a pedestal um 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:34.040 not as high as the pedestal who put Lincoln on, 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:36.760 but you know, he thought Washington was pretty great. Well 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:39.440 that that was a funny line in your show. Was 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:42.040 was talking about how, you know, he loved Lincoln but 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:46.560 less enamored with his neighbor Jefferson. Jefferson hated Jefferson so much. 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:49.160 And what's so funny is that it's Sagamore Hill, Roosevelt's 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:51.840 long Island of State. There is a portrait of Jefferson 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:54.920 hanging I think like on the second or third floor. 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:57.720 And as we were touring it, I said to Tyler Caliberta, 0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:00.920 who's the education technician. They're like, what's what's this doing here? 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:02.880 And he goes, you know, I have no idea. That's 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:06.159 really funny. They just needed some things. I know, I know, 0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:10.320 it's like somebody's fooling around here. Somebody's playing a little trick. 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:13.320 That's pretty funny. So tell me about his obsession with Lincoln, 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:15.680 because it starts when he's pretty young, right, yeah, well, 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:18.439 so his father actually worked with Lincoln. I get so 0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:21.879 confused about the times, but like the fact that he, 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:25.159 like his he kind of interacts with Lincoln because the 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:28.040 lack of hero in someway. Right. But but but also like, 0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:31.880 doesn't he have like a Doctor Seuss incident as well? 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:34.800 I feel like he does. Yeah, is so strange in 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:37.160 terms of how far it expands. And basically it's like 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:40.840 if something crazy happened in the time when Theodore Roosevelt 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:43.639 was alive, Theodore Roosevelt was basically there or involved in 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:46.679 some way, but start with the start with Lincoln. Lincoln, 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:49.640 so his father worked with Lincoln on this program that 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:52.760 would okay, well, let me back up. So Theodore Roosevelt's 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:56.399 father did not go to war, didn't sign up for 0:19:56.440 --> 0:19:58.240 the Civil War. He paid someone to go in his place. 0:19:59.000 --> 0:20:03.280 And that is because or at least partially because well, yes, 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:05.960 but not really. I think he probably still would have 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:09.880 gone except that his wife was a Southerner and her 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:12.280 brothers were fighting in the war, and she could not 0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:16.520 bear the idea of her husband potentially fighting her brothers. 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:18.879 And I think she also did a little bit of 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:21.000 the guilt trip, like, um, you know, if you died, 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:23.200 I've got all these kids, and like, please don't go 0:20:23.440 --> 0:20:25.879