1 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Part Time Genius, the production of I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: I guess what Will Ah, that's right, Will is not 3 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: here today. Actually before this episode, Will told me he 4 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: loves Teddy Ruxpin and Teddy Pendric guest, but he has 5 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 1: zero interest in Teddy Roosevelt, which is what today's episode 6 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: is all about. So of course I led him off 7 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: the hook. But me, I love Teddy Roosevelt, and one 8 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:32,599 Speaker 1: of the things I love most about him is that 9 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: every story you hear about the man is better than 10 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 1: the last. He gave the White House its name, he 11 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,239 Speaker 1: invited the first black man over for dinner there. He 12 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:42,560 Speaker 1: made things like national parks, but he also tried to 13 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 1: bring hippos to the US as a meat source, like 14 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: he actually wanted to farm hippos in to buy you 15 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 1: and get people into hippo bacon. He walked his pet 16 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: bear around on a leash, and one time in Montana 17 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: this guy called him four Eyes, and even though the 18 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 1: dude had two loaded guns on him, Teddy casually noted 19 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: him out. I mean, the stories are insane, but I 20 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 1: have so many questions, from whether Roosevelt once actually climbed 21 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 1: a mountain of a spite to what we're Teddy's productivity, 22 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: life hacks, and also what is big stick energy. So 23 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: we're diving into all of that. Let's dig in. Hey there, 24 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: podcast listeners, it's mong Issue Tiler. You're listening to part 25 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: time genius and my co founder, co host Will Pearson, 26 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: decided not to come in today. It is such a 27 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: mistake because Lowell is wearing a shirt with the words 28 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: Emily Spinach on it. It's got a picture of a 29 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: cartoon garter snake, and I'm guessing it has something to 30 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: do with Teddy Roosevelt because he always plans for these things. 31 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: But we'll have to ask our guest today about that. 32 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: But I am here with a wonderful Aaron McCarthy. Aaron 33 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:08,639 Speaker 1: is the editor in chief of Mental Class position I 34 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 1: used to have years ago, and she's an old friend. 35 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,079 Speaker 1: Some of her interviews and articles are still some of 36 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: my favorites on the site. She's the one who told 37 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: me all about jelly bellies, disastrous attempt to make a 38 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: pizza flavored jelly bean, and uh also the oral history 39 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: of traffic keepers. But today she's here to talk exclusively 40 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: about a different obsession, Teddy Roosevelt. Hey, Aaron, so I 41 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: want to get into your new podcast, History Versus, which 42 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 1: is all about Teddy Roosevelt. And I'm not sure if 43 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 1: you know this, but I years ago I desperately tried 44 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: to get Teddy Roosevelt on the cover of Mental Floss. 45 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: I did not know. I mocked up a version of 46 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: him cutting like karate chopping aboard like in a Judo 47 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: and no one else dug it. But it's still in 48 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: the So tell me, how is it that you got 49 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: so obsessed with Teddy Roosevelt. So you I feel like 50 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 1: when you work at Mental Floss, history is kind of 51 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: your thing. It's just like, yeah, I mean, it's just 52 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:08,679 Speaker 1: like it somehow becomes part of everything that you do. 53 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: And so, you know, I knew a little bit about him. 54 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yeah, you know the conservation president. Um, 55 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 1: he liked to hunt things. And that was sort of 56 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,359 Speaker 1: where my knowledge ended. And then I took a fateful 57 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: trip to the Strand bookstore and I was just kind 58 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: of wandering and looking at the shelves as I want 59 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 1: to do, and I saw Colonel Roosevelt by Edmund Morris, 60 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: and I was like, Okay, I'll just like pick this 61 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: up and I'll read this like, I don't know that 62 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: much about t R. It's gonna be interesting. I didn't 63 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 1: know it was the third book in a trilogy. Um. 64 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: So I read it, and uh, it was amazing. I 65 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: cried at the end on the subway, like a real weirdo. 66 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: And so then I had to go back and read 67 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: the others and then it was just like, you know, 68 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: full speed ahead from there. I was just like, did 69 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: you know that Theodore Roosevelt did this? And did you 70 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: know that he did this? And now I just can't 71 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: stop talking about him ever and making a podcast about him. 72 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: So that's great. And it didn't confuse you to start 73 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: with the third one, like it was like starting with 74 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: Back to the Future three or something. Yeah, I don't know. 75 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: I mean I was just kind of like, hmm, maybe 76 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: I should have gone back to get the other ones, 77 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: but I just didn't like it just didn't even occur 78 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: to me. And by then I bought it, so I 79 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: was like, well, you know, I'm just going to read 80 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: this and then you know, you go back and I 81 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: actually I feel like I read them. I read the 82 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: third one, the first one, and then the second one, 83 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:28,160 Speaker 1: so it was like really weird. Um, But I came 84 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 1: out of it knowing so much more about him and 85 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: just being totally obsessed. So it's amazing how your series 86 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 1: is structured, because it's like history versus and in different 87 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 1: aspects that Teddy Roosevelt's babbling. And I wanted to start 88 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 1: with time because I have no idea how he managed 89 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 1: to get so much into a day. Oh me either, 90 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: me either, And it's just baffling, baffling, Like it makes 91 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 1: you tired when you read about how productive he was. 92 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 1: I just strive for that energy every single day, every day. Well, 93 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 1: I mean even as a college student. You think, like 94 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 1: college students should be lethargic or whatever, but like, like 95 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: his schedule that you lay out is insane, right, yeah, 96 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:06,599 Speaker 1: And I mean that's part of what made him so 97 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: productive was that he just had this devotion to a schedule. 98 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: And what he would do is he would block out 99 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: his time, which allowed him to be more productive. You know, 100 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,040 Speaker 1: I spoke with productivity experts and they were like, this 101 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: is the key. Obviously he had a lot of energy, 102 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: which helped a lot, but you know, he was just 103 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 1: really really focused and he blocked out his time. And 104 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: apparently all the super productive people in history, well maybe 105 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 1: not all of them, but many of them do that. 106 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: You know, they'll say, this block of time is for 107 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 1: reading my book. And you know, he had the schedule 108 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:36,040 Speaker 1: from when he was on the campaign trail, and it 109 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,039 Speaker 1: was literally every hour and a half an hour was 110 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 1: blocked out. He had something else going on, and that 111 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: allowed him to be super focused and super productive. Well, 112 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: the other thing is that he was also like, not 113 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: only was he reading and doing all these things and 114 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 1: writing letters, but you're just giving speeches NonStop to all 115 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: the time. It's insane. I wonder if he ever got 116 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: tired of the sound of his own voice, because like, 117 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 1: I sometimes get tired of this end of my own 118 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: voice as I'm sitting in the studio podcasting, Like uh, 119 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: I read somewhere that he had a distinctive voice though 120 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 1: too right, he did. He spoke with this really distinctive 121 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: style and some people actually think he had a speech 122 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 1: impediment as a kid. But he had this kind of 123 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: high pitched voice and he would distort words. So there's 124 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 1: this story that Edmund Morris tells about how when he 125 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: was in the New York State Assembly, he would just 126 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: yell Mr Speaker, Mr Speaker, like forty times, just over 127 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 1: and over until the speaker would acknowledge him. You know. 128 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 1: So he was he was a weirdo. They always talk 129 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:31,919 Speaker 1: about his teeth. One of my favorite things that I 130 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 1: learned from this podcast is that people talked about his 131 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: teeth all the time. And so when he was police 132 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: Commissioner of New York, Vendors Street Vendors used to make 133 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: these whistles and they were Roosevelt whistles and they had 134 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: his his teeth. Yeah, and uh, I mean, I'm assuming 135 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: they were really cheap because I can't find any of 136 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:52,559 Speaker 1: them on eBay. I've looked, but yeah, like his teeth 137 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: were just so um distinctive, you know, just like really 138 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: white and square, and he was always just like chomping 139 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: on word. That's funny because I guess if you think 140 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: about like the caricatures of him, they do have that, 141 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: but it's not something that I had picked up on. Well, 142 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: now you're going to notice, Well, he also used to 143 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: put those teeth to good use for meals, right, Like 144 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: he was a big eater. Oh, big eater, huge eater. Yeah, 145 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: and you know, like pretty plain stuff. He wasn't like 146 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: um into super duper fancy foods. But yeah, he ate 147 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: a lot, so when he wasn't being his active he 148 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: got kind of chunky and it made him sad. Yeah. 149 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: The other thing I didn't realize was how much coffee 150 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: he drank so much, so like a gallon a day. Yeah, 151 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: I mean, and what was his his son something that 152 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: said something like his coffee mugs resembled a bathtub. It's 153 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: more in the nature of a bathtub. And actually, if 154 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: you go to the birthplace in New York, they have 155 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: like a tea cup of his and it's huge. It's 156 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: it's huge. Um, yeah, it's really it's really big. And 157 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: now at the gift shops in some places they actually 158 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: sell a bull Moose coffee mug that's really big. So 159 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: I obviously bought one, Um, and I drank my coffee 160 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: out of it exclusively now because I too have a 161 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: bit of a caffeine problem. Not that badly, but pretty 162 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: pretty bad. Well, tell me a little bit about his childhood, 163 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: because I feel like you think about Teddy Roosevelt and 164 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: you imagine him as this super rugged person, which he was. 165 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: But he grew up in New York City partially. Yeah, 166 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: so he was born in New York City in eight 167 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: and um, you know, he was born to a very 168 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: wealthy family. His father, Uh, the family business was plate 169 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:33,199 Speaker 1: class importing. But yeah, it's weird, right, And I think 170 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: his father was eighth generation Dutch New Yorker. But his 171 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: father the was basically a professional philanthropist. He gave money 172 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: away like crazy, and he supported a lot of causes 173 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: like the Newsboys lodging House, and he would bring the 174 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: kids along to go down there. So service was like 175 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: a really big part of his life growing up. His 176 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: father also was part of the founding of the American 177 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: Museum of Natural History and the Metropolitan Museum of Art. 178 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: So like this guy was just give away money, making 179 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: it rain towards worthy causes all the time. So tr 180 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: was born. He was the second child, first son. He 181 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: had his first asthma attack at age three, and he 182 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: had asthma so badly that he would have to sleep 183 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: sitting up. His parents really didn't think he was going 184 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: to live to see his fourth birthday. They would make 185 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: him drink black coffee and smoke cigars to try to 186 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: get him breathe, which makes no sense, but you know, 187 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: at that day, it was in that day, it was 188 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: you know, that was a cutting edge and you know, 189 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: when you're when your kid is sick, you're willing to 190 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: do basically anything that you think is going to help. So, um, 191 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: you know, his father would put him in the carriage 192 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: and and go for these wild rides down the road 193 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: trying to force air into try to try to get 194 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: him to to breathe. And you know back then, I 195 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: mean asthma is still it can be fatal today, but 196 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: back then it was it was really bad. So yeah, 197 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 1: he was this this sickly little kid, but well traveled. 198 00:09:58,120 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: So you know, they lived in New York and the 199 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: family would go out. They would spend summers in New 200 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: Jersey or out on Long Island just to kind of 201 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: get the fresh air tier and his mother would go 202 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: to these like health spas where they would take the 203 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 1: waters or do whatever it is that you did in 204 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: that day to try to make yourself healthier. Um. And 205 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: they toured Europe and they did the same sort of 206 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 1: thing over there. So yeah, he had this kind of crazy, 207 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: crazy childhood where he was all over the place and uh, 208 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: you know, just like a sick, sick little kid. And 209 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: then when he was a teenager or just about to 210 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,680 Speaker 1: be a teenager, his father said to him you have 211 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: the mind, but not the body, and so you have 212 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,199 Speaker 1: to build your body. And so now we think of 213 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:40,559 Speaker 1: him as this robust guy, and he really built himself 214 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:44,079 Speaker 1: up to be that robust guy. He basically they built 215 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: a little gym out on the piazza and he would 216 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: be out there like lifting weights and pull ups and yeah. Yeah, basically, 217 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: like that was kind of what it was like. Although 218 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: I guess there was like a beautiful garden in the 219 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: back yard or whatever, so he would be like lifting 220 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: weights and looking out over the garden and um and uh. 221 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: And then he took up boxing because he actually took 222 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: this trip up to I want to say moose Head 223 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 1: Lake in Maine. But he met these kids on the 224 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 1: stage coach on the way up there, and they just 225 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: beat the crap out of him. And so you know, 226 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: he's like, I've been lifting weights for two years, why 227 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: can't I like take on these kids. And so then 228 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: he was like, I'm going to take up boxing. So um, 229 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,319 Speaker 1: he became a lifelong boxer, at least until he got 230 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 1: punched in the eye and lost part of the site 231 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:28,839 Speaker 1: in his eye. As president at the house that's the 232 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: White House. Yeah, and then it was like no more boxing, 233 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: so that's when he took up judo, anything to stay active. 234 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: It reminds me of the Jersey Shore where like all 235 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: these people can't fight, but they lift weights. Yeah, but 236 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,839 Speaker 1: if you have that much focus towards any activity, I'm 237 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: sure you just get great at it, right, Like if 238 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: he had that same focus as a child, well, and 239 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: I mean like and he applied that same focus to 240 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 1: everything he did all throughout his life, so you know, 241 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: and I mean I think it helped that his father 242 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 1: was the one to kind of push him. He worshiped 243 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: his father, and you can sort of see how that 244 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: plays out throughout the rest of his life in a 245 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:10,959 Speaker 1: lot of really interesting ways. But his father told him 246 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 1: weakness is a shame and often a sin. And you 247 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: can imagine if you worship your father and your father 248 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 1: tells you that, like what would happen or how you 249 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 1: would act down the line to kind of not be 250 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 1: not show your weakness. So whenever he has any kind 251 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 1: of major tragedy in his life, he just just like 252 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: he doesn't show it, he doesn't talk about it, he 253 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 1: acts like it didn't happen. And I think you can 254 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: trace that back to not wanting to show weakness. Ah, 255 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 1: there's so much good stuff, but we need to pause 256 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: more with Aaron after the break. Okay, So we're here 257 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:58,079 Speaker 1: with Aeron McCarthy and Mental Flaws talking about Teddy Roosevelt 258 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: as a child. I know from the podcast that he 259 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 1: had a snapping turtle that he like strapped to a 260 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 1: sink or something and tried to train a woodchuck. Yeah. Yeah, 261 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 1: so he I mean, I don't think it was, but 262 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 1: you know he was going to try, so he you know, 263 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: growing up in New York, you sort of feel like 264 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: maybe you're not going to see a lot of nature, 265 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:23,719 Speaker 1: but there's actually a lot of nature all around you 266 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: in New York, which I can attest to. So one 267 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:28,719 Speaker 1: day he was walking down the street. He was going 268 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:30,599 Speaker 1: to get strawberries from the market or something, and he 269 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: saw a dead seal at the market and it just 270 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: kind of like his whole life in New York. Yeah, 271 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:37,680 Speaker 1: it had been swimming in the harbor and somebody killed 272 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: it and which poor seal. But you know, they brought 273 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: it up and they I guess we're trying to sell 274 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: it or something. And so he saw it and he 275 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 1: was like, I need to know everything about this seal. 276 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: So he was measuring it and he really wanted to 277 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: bring it home with him, which he only imagined what 278 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 1: people would have thought at his house. But he ended 279 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 1: up bringing the skull home and then that sort of 280 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,199 Speaker 1: kicked off this obsession with nature, and so he would 281 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: just bring things home living dead. He keep them in 282 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: his room. He had the snapping turtle. Um, I feel 283 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: like there were some squirrels that he raised by hand 284 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: or something. I mean, he was just obsessed with obsessed 285 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: with nature. And it's a funny thing too, because you know, 286 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: I think today we kind of think to ourselves, like, well, 287 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: how could someone who loved nature so much go out 288 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: and hunt like he did? As someone told me, that's 289 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: very like twenty one century attitude. Back in the day, 290 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,479 Speaker 1: there wasn't a difference between being a hunter and a scientist. 291 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: You know, if you wanted to know about animals, if 292 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: you wanted to study them, you kind of had to 293 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: kill them and see what made them work. And so 294 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: he did that a lot. Yeah. So now it's hard 295 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: hard to reconcile those things, right it is now, yeah, 296 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: but not back then. It was just it was it 297 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: was the thing. One thing that I think is is 298 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: interesting that came up in the course of researching this 299 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: is that you know, a lot of hunters of that 300 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: day were the first con revationists because they could see, 301 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: you know, that animal populations were depleting, and so they said, 302 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: you know, we need to take care of these like 303 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: if we want to still be hunting them many years 304 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: in the future, we need to make sure that the 305 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: populations are managed. And so you'll see that, and you'll 306 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: see that today. Like if you are a hunter and 307 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: you pay for a hunting license, a lot of times 308 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: that goes back to conserving animal populations. Protecting animal populations, 309 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: you know, So if you pay for a permit to 310 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: shoot a bear, which makes me sad, but it's a 311 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: thing that happens um that goes back to helping bears. 312 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 1: So it's one of those things. I'm actually surprised more 313 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 1: people didn't yell at me about that Nature episode because 314 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: I'm a big believer in scientific collections. Yeah, that's the 315 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: thing that's kind of controversial these days. Yeah, I mean 316 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 1: they inspire so much wonder you know, and and just 317 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: being at the museums and stuff. If you couldn't have 318 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: seen all these wonderful taxidermy things, right, Like, it's hard 319 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: to imagine being as interested in at least for me. Yeah, 320 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: And you know they have in the back rooms and 321 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: museums they have just drawers and drawers filled with specimens. 322 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: We went to see like the Hippo's Hippo skulls, which 323 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 1: was incredible. They're so cool, They're massive, they're huge. It's like, 324 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: how can you figure out, for example, if mercury levels 325 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: are rising in the world's oceans, Well, you can go 326 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: back and you can look at the feathers of seabirds 327 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: in scientific collections and you can prove that mercury is 328 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: rising in the ocean. If you didn't have those specimens, 329 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: you couldn't make that discovery. So that's kind of important. 330 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: The way that scientists collect today is not like it 331 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: used to be. I mean I feel like, especially for 332 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: t R, he would go out and he would just 333 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: be like, I'm a bag everything I can bag science. 334 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: In high school, I saw Bill Clinton was going to 335 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: Africa and they were contrasting his trip there with like 336 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: Teddy Roosevelts, and it just listed out all animals he 337 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: shot hundreds and hundreds hundreds of animals. Yeah, Yeah, And 338 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 1: they went to the Museum of Natural History. They went 339 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,120 Speaker 1: to the Smithsonian. There are some like I guess ticks 340 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 1: that came from those animals or in a collection of 341 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: ticks down in Georgia or something, and I was like, 342 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 1: I want to go there, but maybe one day. Well. 343 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 1: The other thing that's interesting to me is that Roosevelt. 344 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: You think of him as such a collector, right, he 345 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 1: has this like little museum in his house or in 346 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: his room or whatever, and and and he's always contributing 347 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: to things and whatever. Jefferson also kind of had that inclination, right, 348 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,399 Speaker 1: like he collected fossils and whatever. But Roosevelt did not 349 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 1: like rated him so much, hated him. Well, one, Jefferson 350 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,360 Speaker 1: was a constitutionalist, right, so he really believed, at least 351 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 1: my understanding of it is he believed that the president's 352 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: powers were limited to what was written specifically in the Constitution. 353 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 1: And I think he kind of bent the rules a 354 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: little bit for the Louisiana purchase, but otherwise it was 355 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 1: basically like, the Constitution is what it is. And tr 356 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: was was a Hamiltonian and he sort of thought, well, 357 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: you know, if it's not expressly forbidden by law or 358 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: the Constitution, I can kind of do what I want, 359 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: and he did so I think it has something to 360 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 1: do with that. He also had an issue with the 361 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: way that Jefferson dealt with George Washington, or like tried 362 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: to undermine George Washington, and Washington tr held up to 363 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 1: a pretty high He put him on a pedestal um 364 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: not as high as the pedestal who put Lincoln on, 365 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: but you know, he thought Washington was pretty great. Well 366 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,440 Speaker 1: that that was a funny line in your show. Was 367 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: was talking about how, you know, he loved Lincoln but 368 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: less enamored with his neighbor Jefferson. Jefferson hated Jefferson so much. 369 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 1: And what's so funny is that it's Sagamore Hill, Roosevelt's 370 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: long Island of State. There is a portrait of Jefferson 371 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 1: hanging I think like on the second or third floor. 372 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: And as we were touring it, I said to Tyler Caliberta, 373 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,920 Speaker 1: who's the education technician. They're like, what's what's this doing here? 374 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:02,880 Speaker 1: And he goes, you know, I have no idea. That's 375 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,159 Speaker 1: really funny. They just needed some things. I know, I know, 376 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: it's like somebody's fooling around here. Somebody's playing a little trick. 377 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: That's pretty funny. So tell me about his obsession with Lincoln, 378 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 1: because it starts when he's pretty young, right, yeah, well, 379 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,439 Speaker 1: so his father actually worked with Lincoln. I get so 380 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,879 Speaker 1: confused about the times, but like the fact that he, 381 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 1: like his he kind of interacts with Lincoln because the 382 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: lack of hero in someway. Right. But but but also like, 383 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,880 Speaker 1: doesn't he have like a Doctor Seuss incident as well? 384 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: I feel like he does. Yeah, is so strange in 385 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 1: terms of how far it expands. And basically it's like 386 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: if something crazy happened in the time when Theodore Roosevelt 387 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,639 Speaker 1: was alive, Theodore Roosevelt was basically there or involved in 388 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,679 Speaker 1: some way, but start with the start with Lincoln. Lincoln, 389 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,640 Speaker 1: so his father worked with Lincoln on this program that 390 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: would okay, well, let me back up. So Theodore Roosevelt's 391 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 1: father did not go to war, didn't sign up for 392 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: the Civil War. He paid someone to go in his place. 393 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 1: And that is because or at least partially because well, yes, 394 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: but not really. I think he probably still would have 395 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,880 Speaker 1: gone except that his wife was a Southerner and her 396 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: brothers were fighting in the war, and she could not 397 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: bear the idea of her husband potentially fighting her brothers. 398 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 1: And I think she also did a little bit of 399 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: the guilt trip, like, um, you know, if you died, 400 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 1: I've got all these kids, and like, please don't go 401 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: to war. Um. So he didn't. He paid someone to 402 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 1: go in his place. You know, there was probably a 403 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: little bit of guilt there. And so what he ended 404 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: up doing was working with the Lincoln administration to create 405 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: this program that would allow soldiers to send money home 406 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:39,200 Speaker 1: to their families. And so he actually traveled a lot 407 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,359 Speaker 1: during the war um signing soldiers up for that program. 408 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:45,440 Speaker 1: So he wasn't home a lot, and when he wasn't home, 409 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 1: t R's health took a nose dive. There's just a 410 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: whole other thing. So he worked with Lincoln in that capacity, 411 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 1: and they even went to church together one time. So 412 00:20:55,920 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 1: Big Theodore and Little Theodore both big Union guys, Diddy 413 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 1: not so much. And her mother and sister were in 414 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: the house as well, So it was like a nation 415 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 1: divided and the house divided. So it was kind of 416 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: a delicate time. So he really revered Lincoln for that, 417 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 1: and he also revered Lincoln for keeping the country together 418 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: in a time of great strife, and so his when 419 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 1: he was sworn in for the first time he was elected, 420 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,880 Speaker 1: so he assented to the presidency when McKinley was assassinated, 421 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:29,680 Speaker 1: but then when he was elected of his own right, 422 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: his secretary of State John Hay, gave him a ring 423 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: with Lincoln's hair in it. And John Hay had been 424 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,920 Speaker 1: lincoln secretary of State as well, and so he kept 425 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,639 Speaker 1: that his whole life, and it's at Sagamore Hill, along 426 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 1: with a portrait of Lincoln that's basically looking down at 427 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:46,919 Speaker 1: his desk. So he really loved Lincoln. He thought he 428 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: was like the perfect person. It is interesting to me 429 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 1: that Teddy Roosevelt not only took his presidency so seriously right, 430 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 1: like he'd never take a photo of himself in tennis white, 431 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 1: all these things. But can you talk a little bit 432 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 1: about how he and Taft how to falling out because 433 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: they were really good friends, right, Yes, they were extremely 434 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 1: good friends, very very close, and actually Taft was TR's 435 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: hand picked successor to the presidency, and so as soon 436 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: as they decided like Taft is going to be the guy, 437 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: Taft didn't even wanted. Taft wanted to be a Supreme 438 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:20,640 Speaker 1: Court justice, and it would have been cool with that. 439 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 1: But his wife was really ambitious and she was like, 440 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 1: you have to be president and was like fine, which 441 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,639 Speaker 1: is kind of indicative of how Taft was with everything right. 442 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: He kind of let himself be bullied or pushed into things. 443 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,439 Speaker 1: And so the minute that tr decided this is going 444 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: to be the guy, he starts sort of coaching him, 445 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 1: you know, like, don't let people see you golfing. It's 446 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 1: bad form. You know, I don't let people take a 447 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,439 Speaker 1: photo of me and my tennis whites. And that's one 448 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: of the things that makes him a modern president was 449 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 1: that he cared very much about his image and the 450 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 1: image he projected and how people perceived him. And tafton 451 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: care He just wanted to golf and fish and do 452 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 1: what he wanted to do. And and so he ascends 453 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: to the presidency or he's elected president, Tire goes off 454 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 1: to hunt in Africa for a year and he comes 455 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 1: back and Taft is sending him these letters where he's 456 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:08,679 Speaker 1: basically whining about how he can't get anything done and 457 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,959 Speaker 1: he can't lose weight, and you know, Teddy, come visit me, 458 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: and tr is like, no, I don't think it's it's 459 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 1: a good idea. For you know, a former president to 460 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,160 Speaker 1: come down, you know, a visit a current president or whatever. 461 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 1: He was like, it's just unseemly. But I guess the 462 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: real falling out and there are people debate about why 463 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,919 Speaker 1: it happened, but the people that the experts that I 464 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 1: spoke with, one of them at least thought that it 465 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,360 Speaker 1: was the firing of Gifford pin Show, who had been 466 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 1: trs chief of forestry. That was the break. And then 467 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,919 Speaker 1: there were also issues with U S Steel and Taft 468 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: went after US Steel, which is a merger that Tier 469 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: had approved, and it was just like a whole mess, 470 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: and then they were just at each other's throats for 471 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: the rest of TR's life. Basically. I feel like there 472 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 1: was one time when they ran into each other somewhere 473 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: and they like shook hands and kind of put on 474 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: a show, but they were never close again after that. 475 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: That's kind of crazy. Yeah, And I remember from the 476 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: show some of the like curses and banter they had 477 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,480 Speaker 1: for each other was kind of awful. I mean awful, 478 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: but also awesome. It's like this old fangle, like there's 479 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: nobody who's better at crafting an insult in Theodore Roosevelt 480 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: and you know Taft got some good ones. He called 481 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: him a puzzle wit and a fat head and brains 482 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: less than a guinea pig. And I mean he would 483 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 1: know because his children had so many guinea pigs. But 484 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: you know, his favorite or my favorite insult of his 485 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: is he called William Jennings Bryan a professional yodeler, a 486 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 1: human trombone, which is like human trumpones. Pretty great human trombone. 487 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 1: It's so good. So you know, I just look for 488 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: excuses to use that all the time. There's so much 489 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: good stuff there. We need to pause more with Aaron 490 00:24:46,359 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 1: after this break. So we're here with Aaron McCarthy of 491 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: Mental Fluss talking about Teddy Roosevelt. So I I do 492 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: want to talk about I'm sure you get asked about 493 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 1: the story all the time, the one about the bear. 494 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 1: But but the thing I didn't realize was in the 495 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 1: chronology what had happened right before? Right, okay, can you 496 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about that theater Roosevelt went on 497 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: this bear hunt and it was partially two sort of 498 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 1: smooth feathers over because he had had Booker T. Washington 499 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: over to the White House for dinner, and back then 500 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: it was just really not considered proper to have dinner 501 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,159 Speaker 1: with the black man, because it basically meant that you 502 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 1: were saying that this black man could marry your daughter. 503 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,399 Speaker 1: Tr just kind of didn't really care about that, or 504 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: he when he went out to send the invitation, he 505 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,399 Speaker 1: was like, he hesitated for a minute, and then he 506 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,880 Speaker 1: was like, no, I gotta send it, Like I can't, 507 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,640 Speaker 1: I'm ashamed. I can't believe I hesitated. So he sends it. 508 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: Book or t Washington comes for dinner. He has dinner 509 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: with the whole Roosevelt family, and it's like a working 510 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 1: dinner too, but you know, the kids are there and 511 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,640 Speaker 1: and Edith is there, Tier's wife. And then the next 512 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 1: day someone put it in the paper and it was 513 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: just chaos. Chaos. I was gonna I was going to 514 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 1: use an expletive, but I was like, what's the word 515 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 1: that doesn't have an explutive in it. Yeah, it's pretty bad. 516 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: And actually it never died down, really, I mean people 517 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:23,440 Speaker 1: kept bringing it up and bringing it up and bring 518 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 1: it up long after tr was out of office, basically 519 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,159 Speaker 1: up until the day he died. Did he feel like 520 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,679 Speaker 1: he'd made a mistake or how did he know? He 521 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: was just comfortable with that. Um, he never talked about 522 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 1: it again, and he never invited book Or to Washington 523 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,639 Speaker 1: to dinner ever again. So but you know, afterwards, he 524 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,159 Speaker 1: sent a letter that was basically like, I don't understand 525 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,119 Speaker 1: why everyone is so upset, and you know, I'll have 526 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: him back to dinner anytime I want. And then he 527 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: just never did because I think he realized that politically 528 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: it was a little bit of a risky move. Um. 529 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 1: And he was always very attuned to his image. Yeah, 530 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: And I mean, I I don't know if he cared 531 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 1: so much about his image. Like he was very um progressive, 532 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,960 Speaker 1: you know, like he fought against segregation in New York 533 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: when he was governor, and he certainly appointed a few 534 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: African Americans to prominent positions. But you know, it just 535 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,880 Speaker 1: became such a thing that I think he was kind 536 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: of like, and then I'm sure it's slowed policy and yeah, yeah, 537 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,400 Speaker 1: and you know he then had to go smooth feathers 538 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: is that a phrase? I think? So making things up, 539 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: you know, So he went down there to to try 540 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 1: to make amends a little bit. Um. So he goes 541 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 1: down to Mississippi. He goes down to Mississippi on a 542 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: bear hunt and they're led by this legendary bear hunter 543 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: who supposedly has killed thousands of bears. It's probably more 544 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,200 Speaker 1: like a few hundred, but thousands of bears. Apparently. Tire 545 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 1: from the start was like, this is bad news because 546 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: there are million people with us, and you know, this 547 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 1: isn't really a bear hunt. His perception of hunting was, 548 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 1: you know, you go out with a few dogs, or 549 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 1: you go out on your own, and and you know, 550 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 1: you do it that way. But there were a whole 551 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:03,719 Speaker 1: bunch of people with them, and so he was like, 552 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,959 Speaker 1: not my version of it, but he went ahead and 553 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,639 Speaker 1: did anyway. He was at the invitation of the governor 554 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,879 Speaker 1: of Mississippi or one of the senators. But so he 555 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,400 Speaker 1: goes down there and he's everybody has shot a bear 556 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:19,679 Speaker 1: but him. Um. And so he comes back to the 557 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 1: campsite and they've tied up this this kind of sickly 558 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 1: bear that has already killed some of the dogs, and 559 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,919 Speaker 1: they're like, here's a bear for you to shoot. And 560 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 1: here I was like, no, I won't do it. This 561 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:33,160 Speaker 1: isn't sportsmanlike. And so that's that's where the teddy bear 562 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: comes from. Someone uh from a toy company came to 563 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:38,719 Speaker 1: him and said, can we use your name for this 564 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 1: teddy bear? And he said sure, okay um, and then 565 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 1: it became a thing. But I think what most people 566 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: don't necessarily realize is that it's not like they let 567 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 1: the bear go. Somebody else killed it with a knife. 568 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 1: Oh god, So I know. It's like. So I want 569 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about his family because I'm 570 00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 1: kind of fascinated by his sister Baby and and how 571 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: he relied on her. Talk a little bit about that. Basically, 572 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 1: any time he had a big decision to make, he 573 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: would bounce it off of her, which is wild, you know, 574 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: because he's the president and that was not really something 575 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: that was done at that time. But she was very 576 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: involved in his political career. She was always writing letters 577 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 1: for him and sort of making connections for him. And 578 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: I think his sister Karin also helped, but to a 579 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: lesser extent because Baby was down in Washington, and uh, 580 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 1: he just relied on her and her judgment a lot, 581 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: which was rare for that time. Yeah. I think in 582 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: the show, you said he referred to her as like 583 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 1: the second White House, her house, the second White House, 584 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 1: which is crazy. Well, I want to hear just a 585 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 1: few of the like fun stories that maybe you haven't 586 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 1: gotten to talk about on the show. Oh my god, 587 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 1: there's so much. Okay, so we've kind of discussed a 588 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: little bit about how the Roosevelts had this insane menagerie 589 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: of pets. So Emily Spinach obviously was Alice's pet garter 590 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 1: snake that she would carry around in her purse. Yeah, loves. 591 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 1: But my absolute favorite story about their pets is they 592 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 1: had a bear, a small black bear named Jonathan Edwards. 593 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 1: The kids named it Jonathan Edwards because of its calvinistic tendencies, 594 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: but then also I guess Edith was somehow related to 595 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: Jonathan Edwards. But they used to take it for walks. 596 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 1: They had like a leash, it was a chain basically, 597 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: and they would walk it with a club, which is yeah, 598 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it would get out of hand, 599 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 1: you know, And I could see it getting out of 600 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 1: hand pretty quickly. And eventually they gave it to the 601 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: Bronx Zoo. And when they did, tr was like the 602 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 1: whole household breathed a sigh of relief, except for the dogs, 603 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: because the dogs love to chase it um and it 604 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 1: would give them the thrill of the hunt. But yeah, 605 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 1: I mean they had so many, so many pets. He 606 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 1: got a hyena which he named Bill from some diplomat. 607 00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: They had a hyena for a little while. Um, so 608 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 1: lion cubs, a zebra. They had lion cubs. They had 609 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 1: lion cubs for a little bit. It's crazy. A pig 610 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 1: named Maud. I know. The names are incredible, really good names. 611 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 1: They had a badger named Josiah, which was a gift 612 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: from from a little girl who named it after her brother. 613 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 1: And they would just carry this badger around and then 614 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: all the guinea pigs who had names like father O'Grady. 615 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 1: They were really really good at naming animals. And I 616 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: feel like if anybody out there needs an animal name, 617 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: just look up what tr named his pets and go 618 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 1: with it, because they were really good at naming animals. 619 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 1: So that's one story. It's funny. I um, I don't 620 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 1: know if I told you this or not, but my 621 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: my granddad was one of the heads of forestry in 622 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 1: India and and he uh had a similar not entirely similar, 623 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: but but also ended up shooting animals because um, yeah 624 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 1: you do in the jungles but but but also, um, 625 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 1: there was a bear that couldn't give milk and was 626 00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: shot my grandfather. But they found um because it was 627 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: attacking like villagers or something, and they found the three cubs, 628 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 1: and so my granddad brought him home. And so my 629 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: mom has no fear of animals because she had like 630 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 1: a pet bear like as a kid. They didn't have 631 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:18,479 Speaker 1: a club to Oh my god, I can't imagine, Like 632 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: cats are about as wild as I can get. It 633 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:25,479 Speaker 1: just seems a little intense. One of the things I 634 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 1: had no idea about until I heard your podcast was 635 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 1: um that Roosevelt lived in North Dakota for a while, 636 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 1: So why why does he end up there? Yeah, so 637 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 1: he I believe in eighteen eight three he went out 638 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 1: to the Dakotas to go hunting for bison. So he 639 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 1: basically had a list of big game animals he wanted 640 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 1: to hunt and get you yeah, yolo, And so he 641 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: went out to the Dakotas to hunt bison and he 642 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 1: gets one. But while he's out there, he is staying 643 00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 1: with these cattle ranchers and so he's having discussions with 644 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: them and uh, and he decides he's going to invest 645 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 1: in a cattle ranch pretty impulsively, because what does he 646 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 1: know about cattle ranching, literally nothing, but he's like, whatever, 647 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 1: I'll just throw some money at this and uh and 648 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: become an investor. So he's he gets this cattle ranch 649 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 1: and then um four, his wife and his mother died 650 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: on the same day, which was horribly traumatic, as you 651 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 1: might imagine his first wife, Alice, who is Alice's mother. 652 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 1: And so he goes back to the New York State 653 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 1: Assembly and he's got He's kind of like a rough 654 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 1: last term because the Mugwumps, which was a faction um 655 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: of the Republican Party, wanted him to support the Democratic 656 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: nominee for governor and not the Republican nominee for governor 657 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: because the Republican nominee was super corrupt, and tr made 658 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,440 Speaker 1: some comment that ended up getting out into the press 659 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 1: and it was like a whole big mess. And so 660 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: after his term was done, he was like, this isn't 661 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 1: for me. I'm going to move to the Dakotas and 662 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: become a cattle rancher. And so he just like up 663 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 1: and moved to the Dakotas. He bought another ranch that 664 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 1: was more solitary. He The first ranch he invested in 665 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 1: was called the Maltese cross ranch, and it was sort 666 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,359 Speaker 1: of on a thoroughfare out of town. I mean as 667 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 1: much as a thoroughfare as you can have in the 668 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 1: Dakotas at that time, but you know, it was pretty 669 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,719 Speaker 1: People would come by, and you know, he was like, 670 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,400 Speaker 1: I don't want to talk to anybody, you know, I 671 00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 1: kind of just want to be by myself. And so 672 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,480 Speaker 1: he heard about this other parcel of land that was 673 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,880 Speaker 1: thirty five miles away from Medoro, which was near where 674 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,359 Speaker 1: his other cabin was, and so he bought the rights 675 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,839 Speaker 1: to that land for four d bucks, built cabin out there, 676 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,880 Speaker 1: and he lived out there off and on for a 677 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,359 Speaker 1: few years. He was never like fully fully out there, 678 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 1: but he didn't tend to go out there and stay 679 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,800 Speaker 1: there permanently. It just didn't work out that way because 680 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:52,560 Speaker 1: people were still pulling him back to New York. You know. 681 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:54,400 Speaker 1: Like when he moved to the Dakotas, he left his 682 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 1: daughter Alice with his sister baby, and so he would 683 00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 1: go back to see her and sort of take part 684 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 1: in political things. And then he met or reconnected with 685 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,799 Speaker 1: his childhood sweetheart, Edith ker mccarrowe, who would become a 686 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 1: second wife. And so he was back and forth a lot, 687 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,840 Speaker 1: So he didn't move out there permanently, but he was 688 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:12,879 Speaker 1: out there for quite some time. And I think one 689 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:17,840 Speaker 1: of the funniest stories he bought this buckskin suit, fringed 690 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: buckskin suit, and uh, you know, I mean his thinking was, oh, 691 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: it's it's really soft and comfortable, and you know, you 692 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 1: can wear it and move through the brush and it's 693 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 1: really quiet. But people in the Dakotas didn't really wear 694 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,560 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. And so he shows up in 695 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 1: this in this get up, pretending to be a cowboy basically, 696 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,840 Speaker 1: and they're like, this dude from New York. And he 697 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,799 Speaker 1: also had glasses, which at that time people took us 698 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 1: a sign of weakness that they would pick on him 699 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:49,759 Speaker 1: and then he would just pop him right in the 700 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 1: face and they would realize, like, oh, well, I shouldn't 701 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: have done that. And he was like a boss man 702 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,960 Speaker 1: out there, And so he was never quite I think 703 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 1: the cowboy that he portray raid himself to be. But 704 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:05,280 Speaker 1: he also wasn't a person who was afraid to get dirty. 705 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: So he would spend thirteen hours out in the saddle 706 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,960 Speaker 1: with the rest of his men um and work really hard, 707 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 1: just like just like you know, the men, so they 708 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,920 Speaker 1: really respected him. They came to respect him, not at first, 709 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 1: but eventually. That's all the questions I had is like 710 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 1: where does he feel most comfortable? Because he's obviously like 711 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,760 Speaker 1: he grows up with well, he goes to an idlie school, 712 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,680 Speaker 1: he's in the army, he's like, you know, like he's 713 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 1: in so many different scenes, Like where is he most 714 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 1: at home? I mean, I think he always felt the 715 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 1: most at home in nature. You kind of see a 716 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 1: pattern when any tragedy occurs in his life where he 717 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:44,320 Speaker 1: works himself to the point of exhaustion, I think, basically 718 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 1: trying to keep himself from thinking, and then he just 719 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:48,880 Speaker 1: goes and he retreats to nature and that kind of 720 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,959 Speaker 1: heals him after every major death in his life. That's 721 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 1: the pattern he follows. So I think he always felt 722 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,440 Speaker 1: most at home, you know, when he was like in 723 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:00,640 Speaker 1: the dirt and the mud, you know, doing some kind 724 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,600 Speaker 1: of physical activity. One of the questions gave throughout to 725 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,280 Speaker 1: me is, uh, he wanted to know is it true 726 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,719 Speaker 1: that tr once climbed the matter horn out of spite? 727 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,680 Speaker 1: So what was that? I saw the question. I was like, what, Yeah, 728 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:19,840 Speaker 1: So on his first honeymoon, tr heard some British climbers 729 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:21,839 Speaker 1: in the lobby of the hotel he was staying in, 730 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 1: basically like bragging about it. And so he just decided 731 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 1: that he was going to summit the matter Horn to 732 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,160 Speaker 1: show them that he could climb just as well as 733 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,799 Speaker 1: any brit could. And he did it. And the matter 734 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,920 Speaker 1: Horn is like, is like a really difficult like many 735 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 1: people have died. Um. And of course he had guides, 736 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:39,840 Speaker 1: but he was pretty much an amateur and he was 737 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:44,880 Speaker 1: just like, I'm doing it exactly. And you know what's 738 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,799 Speaker 1: wild is that he was still having asthma attacks at 739 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,800 Speaker 1: this time. I mean, he he kind of created this 740 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 1: this myth that he defeated his asthma, which is not true. Um. 741 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:55,799 Speaker 1: He suffered from asthma for the rest of his life, 742 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,279 Speaker 1: for his whole life. But you know, he basically was 743 00:37:58,320 --> 00:37:59,840 Speaker 1: just like, I'm not going to let this stop me. 744 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:02,759 Speaker 1: I'm not going to show that I'm weak. Just the 745 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,279 Speaker 1: stories of his physical exertion make me It's inspiring and 746 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,799 Speaker 1: also exhausting. He would go to Maine and just like 747 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: climb mountains and moccasins when he lost his boot in 748 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 1: a stream, which is like not not an easy thing 749 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:20,319 Speaker 1: to do. You know, or they he'd hunt caribou for 750 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 1: thirty six miles in the snow with just like a blanket. 751 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,200 Speaker 1: He was a crazy guy. Yeah, it's crazy. Well. One 752 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,600 Speaker 1: of the things I always hear Um Jorge Kurrn's Goodwin 753 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,080 Speaker 1: and say about him is that like he wanted to 754 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,360 Speaker 1: be the baby at every you know, frisks or whatever, 755 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,960 Speaker 1: and um, you know, I feel like he's always the 756 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 1: center of attention. How did he fair with being president 757 00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,520 Speaker 1: and then not being president? Oh? Not well, not well 758 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,279 Speaker 1: at all. One of the experts that I spoke with, 759 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,320 Speaker 1: Clay Jenkinson, who's the founder of the theater Roosevelt Center, 760 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,239 Speaker 1: was basically, just like after he left the presidency, he 761 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,479 Speaker 1: was the most unpleasant guy because he just he felt 762 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,440 Speaker 1: like he should be the guy. What happened was in 763 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:08,120 Speaker 1: his second term, early on he said, I'm not going 764 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 1: to run for re election for a third term because 765 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:12,000 Speaker 1: people will be tired of me and you know, two 766 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,480 Speaker 1: terms is enough. And uh, it's like a very stupid 767 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,799 Speaker 1: thing to do. Um because people loved him, um, and 768 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,960 Speaker 1: he could have had a third term, but instead, you know, 769 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: he said early on that he wasn't going to run again, 770 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:25,399 Speaker 1: and so at the end of it. He was like, nope, 771 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,000 Speaker 1: I said, I wasn't gonna run again. I'm done. And 772 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,040 Speaker 1: then you know, Taft kind of didn't keep up his 773 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,040 Speaker 1: reforms in conservation. He went after us Steel. I think 774 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 1: he also sort of apologized to the Colombian government for 775 00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,240 Speaker 1: helping Panama pull off a coup so that the Panama 776 00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:45,440 Speaker 1: Canal could happen. He was just furious, furious, and he 777 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:49,440 Speaker 1: really hated Woodrow Wilson like so much. His entrance into 778 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:54,520 Speaker 1: the presidential race is what led to Woodrow Wilson becoming president. 779 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,680 Speaker 1: And then he just hated Woodrow Wilson for being a pacifist. 780 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 1: So you know, he just was was bitter, bitter, so bitter, 781 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,440 Speaker 1: so mad. He just really wanted to be president. You know, 782 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:07,359 Speaker 1: he always thought that he could do a better job, 783 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:11,640 Speaker 1: and I mean maybe he could have. Yeah, well, I 784 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,360 Speaker 1: I liked that you refer in one of your shows 785 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,400 Speaker 1: to his political style as big stick energy, which I 786 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:21,600 Speaker 1: thought was really funny T shirt. I can't take credit 787 00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:25,960 Speaker 1: for that. My researcher, Michael Salguerollo came up with that 788 00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:28,960 Speaker 1: and he was like, please use that, and I was like, oh, 789 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:34,200 Speaker 1: I'm gonna thanks Michael. He wins a Nobel along the way, right. Yes, 790 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:36,560 Speaker 1: he was the first American to win a Nobel prize 791 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:40,000 Speaker 1: of any kind um and it was partly for his 792 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:44,240 Speaker 1: mediation between the Japanese and the Russians during the Russo 793 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:47,319 Speaker 1: Japanese War, which some people called World War zero because 794 00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:50,440 Speaker 1: it was like an early mechanized war and they were 795 00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:53,520 Speaker 1: killing each other in huge numbers. It had the potential 796 00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:57,480 Speaker 1: to really sort of unsettle things in the Pacific, and 797 00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:01,520 Speaker 1: so he stepped in and was sort of a neutral 798 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:05,440 Speaker 1: media or sort of not. There's this one great scene 799 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:11,439 Speaker 1: where he calls the Russian diplomat over to Sagamore Hill 800 00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,520 Speaker 1: to tell him how he thinks he shouldn't negotiate, and 801 00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:18,319 Speaker 1: he's playing tennis, and he doesn't stop playing tennis while 802 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,920 Speaker 1: he's talking to this Russian diplomat, you know, like in 803 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:23,640 Speaker 1: breaks from the game. He comes over and he says, well, 804 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:25,600 Speaker 1: here's what I think you should do, Here's what I'd recommend, 805 00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:27,040 Speaker 1: and then he goes back to play some of my tennis, 806 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,279 Speaker 1: and then he comes back and this went on for 807 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:32,080 Speaker 1: like ninety minutes. I can have to imagine what the 808 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,880 Speaker 1: Russian diplomat was thinking. He was like this guy's crazy. 809 00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,640 Speaker 1: That's amazing, but you know that was that was his style. 810 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,400 Speaker 1: So I do want to hear do you know anything 811 00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:45,759 Speaker 1: about that doctor who's stories? I do so. I can't 812 00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,479 Speaker 1: remember the exact date. I feel like it was eight. 813 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:53,759 Speaker 1: But Theodore Roosevelt went to this small town um where 814 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,000 Speaker 1: he was going to hand out awards to boy scouts 815 00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,320 Speaker 1: who had sold a thousand dollars worth of war bonds, 816 00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:00,960 Speaker 1: and Theodore guys all like a Dr SEUs, who was 817 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,480 Speaker 1: one of those boys. All the boys are standing up 818 00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:05,920 Speaker 1: on stage. There are ten of them. Tier only has 819 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:10,600 Speaker 1: nine medals. Um, somebody messed up, and so you know, 820 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:12,759 Speaker 1: he's pinning medals on the lapels of all these kids. 821 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:15,800 Speaker 1: And he gets to theater guys all he doesn't have 822 00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:17,919 Speaker 1: a metal and he says, what's this boy doing here? 823 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:21,719 Speaker 1: The boy Scouts master, which didn't say anything. He just 824 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:25,480 Speaker 1: like ran guys all off stage. And then apparently that 825 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,319 Speaker 1: gave Dr Seuss stage fright for the rest of his life. 826 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:33,160 Speaker 1: That's incredible, you know, and horrifying. Yeah, I mean, like 827 00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:35,880 Speaker 1: it makes sense. It would be so humiliating. And you 828 00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:37,680 Speaker 1: know it wasn't his fault, wasn't t R's fault. It 829 00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:41,040 Speaker 1: was just just a thing that happened, and uh, and 830 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:45,520 Speaker 1: there were there were implications. So tell me, have you 831 00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:49,560 Speaker 1: been inspired by Teddy Roosevelt to change your life in 832 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:53,359 Speaker 1: anyway or have you taken any sort of inspiration from 833 00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:55,239 Speaker 1: all these stories? I really want to try to be 834 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,880 Speaker 1: more productive and sort of block out my time. Like 835 00:42:57,920 --> 00:42:59,560 Speaker 1: I'm a big believer in a to do list. But 836 00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:02,799 Speaker 1: apparently that's not enough. That doesn't help you be productive enough. 837 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:05,880 Speaker 1: So I think I'm going to start blocking out my time, 838 00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:10,120 Speaker 1: um and seeing how how that goes. Or maybe I'll 839 00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:14,920 Speaker 1: take up Judo. We'll see. I like that. But no 840 00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:18,360 Speaker 1: carrying a badger around or no, no, no, no no. 841 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,799 Speaker 1: I mean my cats They're about all I can handle. 842 00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:24,759 Speaker 1: I mean, Pearl kind of looks like a badger, so 843 00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:29,160 Speaker 1: Pearl Wolfe looks like a badger. So adorable cats. So 844 00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:33,840 Speaker 1: tell everyone where they can find the show and and 845 00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:37,719 Speaker 1: what episode they should start with. Well, I mean, I 846 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:41,359 Speaker 1: personally think you should start from tr versus Weakness, which 847 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:42,840 Speaker 1: is the first one because it kind of lays the 848 00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,799 Speaker 1: groundwork for everything that comes next. But um, in terms 849 00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:50,279 Speaker 1: of my favorite tier, versus time is a big one. Um, 850 00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:52,799 Speaker 1: I like tr versus Language just because it gets into 851 00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:54,840 Speaker 1: the whole simplified spelling Tobaccle, which is one of my 852 00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:58,560 Speaker 1: favorite stories of all time. Tier versus Corruption is really 853 00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:01,080 Speaker 1: fun because I think you get a really good sense 854 00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,320 Speaker 1: of the unusual style he used to take on corruption. 855 00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:06,960 Speaker 1: They're all kind of close to my heart, to be honest, 856 00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:11,400 Speaker 1: And it's crazy everything he's involved in, from like everything football, 857 00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:14,560 Speaker 1: and I mean, like there's so much we couldn't even 858 00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:18,279 Speaker 1: get into, you know, like I could go forever. But 859 00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,280 Speaker 1: you know, every time I said, like let's add an episode, 860 00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:23,759 Speaker 1: no no, no, no, no, Laon were like, Aaron, you're 861 00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:27,360 Speaker 1: crazy stuff. Tear versus Nature is really I don't know. 862 00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:29,360 Speaker 1: They're all fun. They're all fun in their own ways. 863 00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:33,239 Speaker 1: And I mean I think, what's yeah, I can't make 864 00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,000 Speaker 1: you choose, but you know, I think what's what's good 865 00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,279 Speaker 1: about this is that, you know, you read the biographies 866 00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,440 Speaker 1: about t R and everybody kind of focuses on the 867 00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,160 Speaker 1: thing that they want to focus on. Doing a podcast 868 00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:44,960 Speaker 1: like this in this format has kind of allowed us 869 00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:46,640 Speaker 1: to drop in and out of his life, to feature 870 00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:48,600 Speaker 1: different things, and I think it's actually allowed us to 871 00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:51,640 Speaker 1: get into some of the not so great stuff, you know, 872 00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:53,400 Speaker 1: and explore that in a way that I hope is 873 00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:59,880 Speaker 1: enlightening and thoughtful. So you know, we'll see people respond. 874 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:04,360 Speaker 1: It's a really excellent series and and and really really fun. 875 00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,640 Speaker 1: And uh, you can get history Versus from Mental Flass 876 00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:11,520 Speaker 1: everywhere from My Heart to Spotify, the Stitcher to wherever 877 00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,720 Speaker 1: you get your podcast. But what's next for the series. 878 00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:18,120 Speaker 1: So we are looking at an explorer for the second season. 879 00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:20,920 Speaker 1: I don't want to say who, don't want to spoil it, 880 00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:25,000 Speaker 1: but not the explorer you're probably thinking of. So that's fun. 881 00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:27,080 Speaker 1: And then for the third season, I have an author 882 00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,400 Speaker 1: i'd like to feature awesome and we'll see. And there's 883 00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:33,399 Speaker 1: kind of a Theodore Roosevelt connection to all to both 884 00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:37,399 Speaker 1: of those, um I mean of course, I mean yeah, 885 00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:43,880 Speaker 1: like he was involved in literally everything. Oh, Aaron McCarthy, 886 00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,600 Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here. That's it for 887 00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:48,759 Speaker 1: Part Time Genius this week. We'll be back next week 888 00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:51,440 Speaker 1: with an episode on Elevators. I think it's going to 889 00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:53,800 Speaker 1: be great, I promise. And in the meantime from Will 890 00:45:53,960 --> 00:46:01,520 Speaker 1: Gabe lolom me, thanks so much for listening. M h h. 891 00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:12,600 Speaker 1: Part Time Genius is a production of I Heart radio. 892 00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:14,960 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the I 893 00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,719 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to 894 00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:21,239 Speaker 1: your favorite show. H