1 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to What Goes Up, a weekly markets podcast. 2 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 1: My name is Mike Reagan. I'm a senior editor at Bloomberg, 3 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: and then Donna h a cross asset reporter with Bloomberg. 4 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:25,639 Speaker 1: This week on the show, well, they were calling it 5 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: the crypto Winner. The value of big coins like Bitcoin 6 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: and Ether were cut in half and a little more 7 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: than two months, and many of the smaller coins fared 8 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: even worse. But there have been some green shoots since 9 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: late January and crypto values have perked back up again. 10 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: What does it all mean for the huge ecosystem of 11 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 1: products that have grown up around crypto. We'll talk to 12 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: the CEO of a company that provides exchange traded crypto 13 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: products about what he's expecting in the coming year. But first, 14 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 1: fill Donna all this talk about crypto winner. Has been 15 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: thinking about groundhogs? Or do you say will break Groundhog Day? 16 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: Doesn't everybody? Don't? We all sort of watch and see 17 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,679 Speaker 1: what happens because we want the winter to end. We do. 18 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: And there's very sort of ominous news in New Jersey. 19 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 1: Did you know there are local groundhog in New Jersey? 20 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: Melville Millville mel actually dropped dead right before he was 21 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:21,119 Speaker 1: supposed to see his shadow or not. I find that 22 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: I find that ominous. Yeah, it is pretty ominent. I 23 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 1: don't know what. I don't know what that means. But 24 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: I think we need a groundhog for crypto winners, maybe 25 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 1: like an n f T. Like if bitcoins down, you 26 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 1: have a groundhog n f T that comes out and 27 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: sees the shadow or not? What how would you How 28 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: would you get it to pop its head out of 29 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: the ground. It has to be I think it has 30 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: to be triggered by like a forty percent drop and 31 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: pick coin and then it comes out, and it could 32 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: be a coin toss too. I was reading apparently punks 33 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: a tawny phil the most famous groundhog only has a 34 00:01:55,360 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: track record that compares his to his benchmark of a inflip, 35 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: and he's trailing his benchmark terribly. So I don't you know, 36 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: I think a good n f T crypto groundhog can 37 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: beat him. I don't know. I'm throwing it out there 38 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: if there's any developers out there listening. It's a weird idea. 39 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: That's a free, free idea for me that I'm sure 40 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 1: no one's no one's probably gonna take up. But I 41 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: do what I can possibly our guests might have some 42 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: thoughts on this. I don't know if I'm sold on it, 43 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: but I want to welcome Honey Raschwand he's the co 44 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: founder and CEO of twenty one Shares and a Moon, 45 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: and Honey, I want to thank you for joining us. 46 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,359 Speaker 1: Of course, thanks for having it. I want to get 47 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 1: into your sort of outlook for for crypto in general. 48 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:41,799 Speaker 1: But it's a lot of listeners might not be very 49 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: familiar with twenty one shares. It's funny because in the 50 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: US we sort of fixate on, you know, the SEC 51 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 1: being very slow in approving uh bitcoin or other crypto 52 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: ETFs around the world, though it's flourishing. I mean, twenty 53 00:02:56,120 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: shares has a bunch trading in European markets, So up 54 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:01,799 Speaker 1: to us a little bit about some of your biggest 55 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,079 Speaker 1: products where they're trading, how how much assets are involved, 56 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: that sort of thing. If you can't tell by my voice, Um, 57 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 1: I did grow up in America as well, and so 58 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: did my co founder, and so the fact that we 59 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 1: actually built the company in Switzerland was very much on purpose. 60 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: What we were just looking to do at the beginning 61 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 1: was put crypto in a safe, accessible, known package. Or rapper. 62 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: For a lot of people, buying e t S is easier. 63 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: For some people, buying e t S is necessary. And 64 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: we couldn't find any of these products out there. There 65 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: were numerous reasons why not, but we sort of scoured 66 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: the globe. We we We spoke to twenty seven different jurisdictions, 67 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: different regulators around the world before settling on Switzerland and 68 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: then using Switzerland as a base too from which to expand. 69 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: The first product we we launched was actually a bit 70 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: of a complicated product. I think people assume we did 71 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: the Bitcoin ETP first. No, we we first listed the 72 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: uh what was the world's first and only index one 73 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: and so it was an index of the top five 74 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: cryptos represented the market, was just a single share and 75 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: it was the first time that anything globally had been 76 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:18,119 Speaker 1: listed on a stock exchange that was physically back. Now 77 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 1: that doesn't mean some people listed things and said they 78 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 1: were physically back, but there's no guarantee. It's not in 79 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: the product structure itself. These are physically back commodity e 80 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,359 Speaker 1: tps and we put crypto it. At the moment, I 81 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 1: think we have maybe two and a half billion or 82 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 1: so spread across about total products. We're going to double 83 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,480 Speaker 1: maybe triple the product suite this year, and we cover 84 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 1: everything from a single assets like the most popular ones 85 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: bitcoin ethereum, to some less popular ones or more let's say, 86 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:55,720 Speaker 1: more esoteric, younger ones like Polka Dot or chain link 87 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 1: or Solana or binance coins. We also have a bunch 88 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: of index is if you want to buy thematic baskets 89 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: and that kind of thing. Uh. And we also have 90 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: the only bitcoin short in an ETP format, and so 91 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 1: we have a single bitcoin short at the moment. It's 92 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 1: in Switzerland, Austria, Germany, Holland, France, Sweden. I think we 93 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: announced that we're bringing Australia it's first bitcoin and ethereum ETPs. 94 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: They're classified as at S there actually uh. And we're 95 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:29,840 Speaker 1: going to do the same with brand new region in 96 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: the next couple of months. And so that's sort of 97 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: where we're at by both assets as well as number 98 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 1: of products. Certainly, we are the world's largest issue of 99 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: crypto ETPs and we were the ones that first brought 100 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: it to market a couple of years ago. Amazing, yeah, 101 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 1: just a few years. I mean the company's two thousand 102 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: and eighteen. You were started, so that's a lot to 103 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 1: get done in a few years. We're three years old. Yeah, 104 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 1: I think we're three years old. In a couple of 105 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:59,679 Speaker 1: months now. I think this this is my third startup. 106 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: It is the quickest of product market fit. Now. It 107 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 1: wasn't instantaneous. I remember launching in November with at the 108 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 1: time five million in seated capital, which we slaved away 109 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: to raise, having never been in e t F before, 110 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: and just the price action of crypto. This was a 111 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 1: basket of the top five. We launched the first day 112 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 1: with five million. On Thursday day two, second day of trading, 113 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: three point five three point seven millions, and so that 114 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,799 Speaker 1: was the the drop in just one day. I mean, actually, 115 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 1: it took us a really quite some time to get 116 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 1: to an acceptable, respectible level and then from there. I 117 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,600 Speaker 1: don't remember going from twenty to twenty million to two 118 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: billions again. I remember being in the range of thirty million, 119 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, we're now talking about 120 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: two to three billion. A lot of people have have 121 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 1: used it, but I think it just it speaks to 122 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: the product market fit here. A lot of people were 123 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: looking at this. Why a few folks on the crypto 124 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: side were scoffing at the people that would buy crypto 125 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 1: using an e T S or wasn't as exciting adventure 126 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: to pursue. Everyone thought it was impossible to do, or 127 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: maybe if it's not listed in America, it doesn't matter. 128 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 1: Various other viewpoints there that we happen to disagree with 129 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: took a contrarian opinion, and here we are, so, honey, 130 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: can you actually talk about the regulation in Europe and 131 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: how that regulation actually allows for your products to exist 132 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: over there, whereas over here in the US we have 133 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: a bitcoin futures product and everybody is still sort of 134 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: waiting for that holy grail bitcoin spot e T F. 135 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: So when we okay, when we say Europe as it 136 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: applies to us specifically, there are two Europe. There's Switzerland 137 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: and then there's the European Union, and the regulations are 138 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 1: a bit different. Switzerland has a very very rich history 139 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 1: of costuming and trading commodities like think about swizz gold, 140 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: baults and that kind of thing, and so it was 141 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: actually be one of the easier conversations with regulators that 142 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: that we had was here in Switzerland, because very very 143 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 1: quickly they got it. We said, we want to wrapper 144 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: for physically backed, instored in our vaults gold. We wanted 145 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 1: to have these characteristics. We don't want the ability or 146 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: power as an issuer to take the money out. We 147 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: wanted to be guaranteed, and we wanted to trade in 148 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: this way. We wanted for retail and institutional and they said, great, 149 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: here is a package. And then towards the very end, 150 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: I remember say yes, but it's digital, that's the only thing. 151 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:34,199 Speaker 1: And so instead of physical bars, we're gonna, you know, 152 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: put laminated pieces of paper or platinum plates or whatever 153 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: within custody vaulting and do it that way. And so 154 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:44,839 Speaker 1: the Swiss really understood that they got it. There was 155 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 1: also a tremendous amount of political agreement, and not like 156 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: we're seeing in America where it's a little bit more 157 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: partisan than I would want it to be, but in 158 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: in Switzerland, which is quite part is in itself. Everyone 159 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,559 Speaker 1: agrees that this the crypto nation and they should have 160 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: a stake in the future here, and it's a very 161 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,199 Speaker 1: important thing for them. And so we get we get 162 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:09,319 Speaker 1: that treatment, and then we help the country build this 163 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: entire program of having been the first to do it, 164 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: and and so very good relationship there. Europe is a 165 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: bit different in that there is a passporting scheme and 166 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: so once you get approved in one European country for 167 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: X license, oftentimes you can passport it across the rest 168 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 1: of the European Union, all the other twenty seven countries, 169 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: and so that was basically how we've done it, which 170 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 1: is why in some areas of Europe where the regulator 171 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: may not be the most bullish crypto, we still may 172 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 1: have listings just based on precedent passporting and doing all 173 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 1: of those various things. But we have a very good 174 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 1: relationship with the German regulator. Germany is the largest on 175 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: me in Europe and that's something that we feel very 176 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: very good about. On the US and regulations can't comment 177 00:09:55,960 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: too much with any specifics. We do have a filing 178 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: that I think it's public news that we've filed with 179 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 1: Cathy Wood and ARC as well as twenty one shares. 180 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: I guess here's what I could talk about. We filed 181 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: to files. One was futures and one was physical, and 182 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: we have pulled the futures file. We were tracking and 183 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 1: trying to see what people were looking for, how people 184 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: would react to it, and in the end it wasn't 185 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: the product quality that we wanted from the beginning. We 186 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: could have listed private trusts with premiums to uh net 187 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: asset value. We could have done things that have greater 188 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: counterparty with We could have done things that would have 189 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: made us more money. And we've shied away from bad 190 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: product built in bad product quality because we don't think 191 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: you can as easily replace any of these things over 192 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: time and its compounds and all of a sudden you 193 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 1: have a crappy company, right, And so we really didn't 194 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: want to do that. We thought, maybe there's enough liquidity, 195 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: maybe this, maybe that. But I think that the data 196 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,839 Speaker 1: across the board shows that sends the futures et f launch. 197 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 1: It doesn't track the price of bitcoin, which one would 198 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: argue is the most important thing, and then it has 199 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: myriad other issues as well, given that it's built on futures. 200 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: Physical is the way to go. Physical is how we've 201 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: done it so far in probably a dozen countries, and 202 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: we will continue making our case. And I can honestly 203 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 1: say that everyone we're speaking to is listening with open 204 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: ears and is willing to have a conversation, which is 205 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:31,319 Speaker 1: all that you can really expect and hope for here. 206 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 1: And we will along with the rest of the community 207 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 1: try and work very hard to bring America an easier 208 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:51,439 Speaker 1: way of accessing with the cryptos. Well, honey, I gotta say, 209 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:53,599 Speaker 1: if you have to live through a crypto winner in 210 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:56,439 Speaker 1: the middle of a regular winner, Switzerland seems like a 211 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:57,839 Speaker 1: good place to do it. I hope, I hope you 212 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 1: ski a little bit, uh while you're there. I'll tell 213 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: you this. Recently, the blizzards in New York are far 214 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 1: secure whatever interesting. Alright, so we are getting we are 215 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: getting the shirt in. But I wanted to sort of 216 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,959 Speaker 1: gauge your mood and and what you sense as the 217 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: mood of the industry after this this nasty sell off 218 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: in in crypto that we've seen since November. Um, you know, 219 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: obviously the space was just flourishing. I I know, you 220 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: had really ambitious hiring plans. You're gonna hire more than 221 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: a hundred people or something like that this year. And 222 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: obviously that's that's the story you hear all over the place, 223 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:39,439 Speaker 1: people really ramping up and and and really interesting projects 224 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: and a lot of venture capital coming in, and and 225 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: on and on. Does this price action change the temperature 226 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: at all? Does it change the mood in the industry? 227 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: Make you sort of second guess any plans or anything 228 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: like that. Uh, you know, how are you thinking about it? Look, 229 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: I think this is a very very interesting question because 230 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,079 Speaker 1: by all means, Crypto is not the only one that 231 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:03,839 Speaker 1: it faces these kinds of things. Like I think, I 232 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: remember when I when I did my first startup, I 233 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: dropped out, I moved to California. It was the Sequoia 234 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: Capital's rest in piece good Times power point presentation, because 235 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:17,599 Speaker 1: that's how the market was. And like I remember my 236 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: first round that I ever raised was on a today 237 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: relatively small cap. I think it was three or four million. 238 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: It was three million the first time, four million the 239 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 1: second time around. And it's it's it's a very very 240 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: very different world. Of course, it changes the scene. People 241 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: are more careful. I forget who said this. It was. 242 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: It was a seat station investor. I think it might 243 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: have been Michael Deering. And it's it's the most perfect way. 244 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: I think during downturns, we all know a Kleenex box, 245 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: and based on whether we have just opened it or 246 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: if there's only four kleenex is left and it's nighttime, 247 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:02,559 Speaker 1: our use of the Kleenex is going to radically change. 248 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: It's the same thing here now, and so I think 249 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, companies that were more casually doing 250 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: a million dollars sponsorships for conferences of mostly crypto insiders 251 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: are probably rethinking. Some of these companies that were not 252 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 1: on solid footing. Well, you know, now now we see 253 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: who's swimming without any swim trunks. Now a lot of 254 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: sunlight is the best disinfectant here, and so I think 255 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: it makes everybody more careful, which is probably why the 256 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: data shows that downturns are better times to build companies. 257 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: Not everything is going well, you have to make sacrifices. 258 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: You have to think about this or that, which is 259 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: a new paradigm ship for our industry. But you are 260 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: honest with yourself. You're intellectually honest with yourself. You've seen 261 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 1: this coming. If you're careful, you've seen this coming. If 262 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: you're in crypto, that's for sure, because you know we 263 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 1: we do these normally and will continue to do them 264 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: for for quite some time, and you care for it. 265 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: So we still have all of these hiring plans. We 266 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: have forty or fifty open positions. Were a hundred and 267 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: twenty five people now up from twenty. I think or 268 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: so about a year ago. But we've been, you know, 269 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: an intelligent squirrel during the bull market and really stored 270 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: up to make sure that we not only are safe 271 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: now but can can be opportunistic in case something comes up. 272 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: We were widely profitable, we remained pretty profitable. But I 273 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: think the extra attention to detail is something that I 274 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: certainly missed during the bull markets where everyone's a genius 275 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: and I wish the prices were higher, I always do, 276 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: but I know they'll be higher a year from now, 277 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: and I would much rather be in this position than 278 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: than anything else. It's also all cyclical, and relatively speaking, 279 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: every metric you've said so like bitcoin or ethereum dropping 280 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: by half as compared to what date, because I think, 281 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: you know, a year out, we're all up, we're all 282 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: beating the SMP. Well, I haven't sold any crypto for years, 283 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: so how how am I? And I think we have 284 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: to really consider all of these things, especially in an 285 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: area like crypto where a lot of us are very 286 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: very trained holders and it's part of the culture. Something 287 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: interesting that I actually noticed is a bunch of research 288 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 1: reports that I've been getting in my inbox have been 289 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: pointing out that there actually have been slight inflows into 290 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: a bunch of crypto products over the last couple of weeks, 291 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: and and even if there are outflows, they're really miniscule. 292 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: And I looked at the bitcoin features E t f S, 293 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 1: the ones offered in the US, and they've seen no 294 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: outflows at all. And I'm just wondering why you think 295 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: that might be, given that there is so much attention 296 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 1: at the recent draw down. I think it depends on 297 00:16:56,320 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: the person, because every every person sort of in crypto 298 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: for a slightly different reason. Those that are investing in 299 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:08,120 Speaker 1: crypto because of political risk, what has changed. Nothing. Those 300 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: that have invested in crypto because they're worried about increased inflation. 301 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 1: What has changed. Part of the equation has changed, which 302 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 1: is why the prices have moved. But largely that thesis, 303 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: if you're a long term holder, still applies. Those that 304 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: have invested in crypto as a VC case, like a 305 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: lot of I think tokens can be looked at as 306 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 1: VC project. Of course they're going to hold that. That's 307 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: the whole point, and so I think that's how we 308 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: have to think about it. Really, A few of our 309 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:39,919 Speaker 1: competitors have customer profiles that are far different from us, 310 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 1: and they're inflows, outflows. Activities as a result, even in 311 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,360 Speaker 1: the good time, are just different from us. We don't 312 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: really attract too many traders. We attract long term holders. 313 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: Our AUM tends to be among the stickiest in the 314 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,639 Speaker 1: space as a result of what is predominantly family offices, 315 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,200 Speaker 1: private banks and fund managers that hold the ball of 316 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: the au M of the product, and the healthy dose 317 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:07,440 Speaker 1: of retail that give it act. But you know, I'm 318 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,120 Speaker 1: not surprised by the data. Our data shows the same. 319 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:12,880 Speaker 1: It's it's it's a little too soon, but I think 320 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: we've come close to maybe inflows in the last thirty days, 321 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: which is very good. Actually, you know, a couple of 322 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: days of outflows, but overall for the month, net inflows 323 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:31,120 Speaker 1: and the outflows weren't nearly serious. You're in an industry 324 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,440 Speaker 1: that talks a lot about in ten years we will 325 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,199 Speaker 1: be x and as a result, you get a lot 326 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 1: of people in the industry that invest with that time horizon. 327 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: A lot of people are trying to get rich quick, 328 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 1: but they tend to be uh, sort of flushed out 329 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 1: in these market movements. Honey, I want to rewind a 330 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: little bit to something you said that I've been thinking 331 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: a lot about, and that's sort of the partisanship. Uh no, 332 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: when it comes to politics and crypto now here. You're 333 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 1: a guy who's you know, flown around to how many 334 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:05,159 Speaker 1: jurisdictions twenty First of all, I wish I had your 335 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,439 Speaker 1: frequent flyer miles. They must be you can probably get 336 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 1: a trip to the moon at this point. But but 337 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 1: I'm curious, you know, tell me if I'm wrong in 338 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: sort of simplifying it to the to the idea that 339 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: it seems like the conservative side, the right side of 340 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:25,360 Speaker 1: the political aisle is very much sort of pro crypto, 341 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 1: hands off regulation and the and the left side is 342 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: more cautious at once tighter regulations, more restrictions. Is that 343 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 1: too simplified of a way to think of it, or 344 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 1: from your experiences, is that sort of what's going on. 345 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: I think that's not a bad summary. I haven't thought 346 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 1: about it under those models. I think it's I think 347 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,639 Speaker 1: it's fairly interesting. I I I've always looked at this 348 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:53,399 Speaker 1: as even earlier than that, in that none of the 349 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: commentary that I'm hearing on the bearer's side, left or 350 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:01,360 Speaker 1: right makes sense. So it there there's an element there 351 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:05,439 Speaker 1: of you know how, at the very beginning of crypto, 352 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: we were getting a ton of this is only used 353 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: for drugs, and at some point we were getting this 354 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 1: is only going to be used by criminals and terrorists, 355 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: and that narrative has largely died due to data, to 356 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: the anecdotal evidence, due to monitoring on exchanges, the professionalizing, etcetera. 357 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: And I would say the same thing here as well. 358 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,959 Speaker 1: A lot of the comments that I'm hearing are about 359 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:36,439 Speaker 1: this is going to exacerbate income inequality as an example, right, 360 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:40,359 Speaker 1: and so very that's very clearly something that is a 361 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:44,400 Speaker 1: commentary from the left. That's that's unhelpful. And I'll mention 362 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: one on the right as well, just to be fair. 363 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 1: But it's unhelpful mostly because it's not true. Right. My 364 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: co founder of Failure loves crypto in part because of 365 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,160 Speaker 1: female and women empowerment in the developing world, suddenly having 366 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: access or being able to have access to finances, which 367 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:07,400 Speaker 1: has proven to be better for families overall. Anyone anywhere 368 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: in America elsewhere can suddenly plug into a financial system 369 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: that is global in nature. There's there's a ton that 370 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,679 Speaker 1: the left with love about crypto. It's just not properly explained. 371 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 1: On the right, I think I've heard some things about 372 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: how this is quite negative for the United States, it 373 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 1: should be squashed. Maybe China or Russia are behind this 374 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 1: in order to destroy the dollar or to control it 375 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:37,439 Speaker 1: or whatever. It's very clear based on Russian and Chinese 376 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: actions that they are similarly confused, right, And I think 377 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: it's just it's a bit early. But to me, bitcoin 378 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,400 Speaker 1: is is pretty American. It's what's one of the most 379 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: American things I would say has ever been invented build 380 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 1: on sovereignty as a concept, let alone sovereignty in the 381 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 1: digital age, which is which is both American individual liberties 382 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: and freedom combined with American ingenuity and innovation. Right, this, 383 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: this thing, this entire asset class is super American, which 384 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: is why a lot of people that happened to the 385 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: Americans are in the industry and a lot of American 386 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 1: dollars are in the industry. But it would be a 387 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,360 Speaker 1: shame if America missed out on this, and I think 388 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: America can really benefit from this in myriad ways. One 389 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,160 Speaker 1: is the bitcoin mining and we've been seeing what states 390 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: like Texas are doing to incentivize Chinese mistakes ultimately of 391 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 1: destroying the their own mining industry. But we should see 392 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 1: the same thing. Right now, American exchanges don't seem to 393 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: be as competitive as global exchanges based on revenues, based 394 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: on market share, based on kind of products, and and 395 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: and I would I would argue that we have been 396 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 1: falling behind on a couple of things. We've been doing 397 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: well on say mining and a few other topics, but overall, 398 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 1: I wouldn't say that it is the best place to 399 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 1: do DeFi best place to be crypto And you know, 400 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 1: boy should it be? And we make that case privately 401 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 1: UM as a company, h and we will continue to 402 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: do so. I forgot already what were you used to 403 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: describe some of the I think it was esoteric products, 404 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: So you had mentioned Salona, Polygon, a bunch of other 405 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: e t p s. So I'm wondering which of your 406 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,399 Speaker 1: products you're seeing the most investor interest and why that 407 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: might be. We look at two metrics. One is just 408 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 1: generally speaking, what are our biggest products, and those tend 409 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: to be the usual suspect Bitcoin, Ethereum, the basket, etcetera. 410 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 1: We also get a lot of attention with bringing accessibility 411 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,360 Speaker 1: to ask that are even in the West generally inaccessible. 412 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: I don't know if they launched it yet, but I 413 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: don't think so. And I think for the longest time 414 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: polka dot has been wanted by coin base and just 415 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: not there. I think they they in the end listed it, 416 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: but there was a time period where we were the 417 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: only way to access polka dot in the West. Certainly 418 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,479 Speaker 1: that is the case for Binance, which is a very 419 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: good product for US finances by far the world's largest exchange, 420 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,439 Speaker 1: and mostly people in the West really don't know too 421 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 1: much about it, like as on a retail level, and 422 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 1: we are one of the few, maybe only way in 423 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: a regulated fashion to purchase this asset in the West, 424 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 1: and so you get a lot of attention. The other 425 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: metric that we look at besides just overall, what are 426 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: our biggest product, and really it's just the usual suspect 427 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 1: is time that it takes to get to a hundred 428 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: million dollars in a one because that actually shows there 429 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: are some products that that list and then soar to 430 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: a hundred millions, are products that take another two years 431 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: and still haven't hit a hundred uh and on those 432 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: basically all the layer, all the layer ones and layer 433 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 1: two's that we've launched everything that you could see as 434 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: either an Ethereum competitor or compliment, depending on how you 435 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 1: look at has been soaring, and it's been soaring in 436 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 1: the summer, and it's been soaring since we've listed it. 437 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: And so it's Lana Avalanche Polygone, very very popular launches 438 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: Cosmos right now because you know, Mikey brought this up 439 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 1: bear market even though I think the podcast is the 440 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: price goes out for something, right what goes up? Yes, 441 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: you didn't even know the name right now, but it's okay. 442 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 1: But yeah, I think I think even if if you 443 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 1: were to look at the bear market right now, Cosmos 444 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: is and we happen to have I think the only 445 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: Cosmos product in the world, So all in all, we'll 446 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,680 Speaker 1: still see strong influence to that point, you know, honey. 447 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 1: Before every podcast, the Albanna gathers up a list of 448 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 1: about three d and forty seven questions for for the guests, 449 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,479 Speaker 1: and uh, unfortunately we never get to all of them, 450 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 1: but she has got a good one on on her 451 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: list that I'm gonna steal because we are running out 452 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 1: of time, and it's about basically the notion of institutional 453 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:28,159 Speaker 1: investors and decentralized finance. Um, do you see an interest 454 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 1: from institutions to get into defy? If that, what will 455 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 1: it sort of take to get them involved. I feel 456 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 1: like institutions are just finally worming up to sort of 457 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: the big cryptos Um. Are they ready to sort of 458 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: go into the rabbit hole of defy? And if I 459 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 1: can tack one more question on that, you know, the 460 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: barrier tentry is so low that there's so many projects, 461 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,199 Speaker 1: so many coins going out there is that a hazard 462 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 1: to the space when you have so much supply of 463 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: new stuff coming in, does that sort of water down 464 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: dilute you know, the potential worth of of of all 465 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:09,120 Speaker 1: the projects. Yeah? Absolutely, So let me answer your your 466 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,680 Speaker 1: second question first, because that's an easy question. There's about 467 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 1: two million apps maybe more on the Apple App Store. 468 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,679 Speaker 1: There's I think three to four million on the Google 469 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: Play Store. We're not that concerned about good mobile apps 470 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 1: taking off. There's going to be a ton of noise. 471 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: It is our opinion that there's going to be more tokens, 472 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: not less. Because we're starting to see this, you see it, 473 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 1: especially with the n f T s. It's very possible 474 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: that instead of subscriptions, we get n f t s, 475 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 1: or we get tokens that represent something like that is 476 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: very possible that for a bunch of aspects of our lives, 477 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,159 Speaker 1: we will you know, add on top of it some 478 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: crypto element, which is quite interesting. And so if anything, 479 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,880 Speaker 1: we're going to see more tokens, not less. There will 480 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 1: still only be the top top ones. Maybe it's ten, 481 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 1: maybe it's twenty, maybe it's five. Uh, and so it 482 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 1: still makes sense to invest in the in the big ones, 483 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: the ethereums and their compliments and competitors, the bitcoins, etcetera. 484 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: But overall, I would assume if if we really think 485 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 1: this will go to a hundred trillion dollars, it's it's 486 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 1: not inconceivable for a bunch of random tokens to get 487 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,640 Speaker 1: tens or hundreds of billions in market cap. And you're 488 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 1: seeing it right now like it's super early. We have 489 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 1: defy assets with tens of billions in market cap. Once 490 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,120 Speaker 1: it goes a step or two more in adoption, those 491 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: same asthlets would be hundreds of billions or or maybe 492 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 1: low trillions if you really extrapolated up, and we would 493 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 1: see that something quite similar. Institutions have an incredibly long 494 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 1: term perspective, which is very helpful. Here. Institutions have a 495 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 1: ton of money, which is very helpful. Here. Institutions move 496 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 1: very quickly, and they have an incredible amount of needs, 497 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:55,719 Speaker 1: and so that's not helpful. Institutions are not here. Uh, 498 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: they're on the way, but sure everyone is on the 499 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 1: way to something. I think they still need a lot, 500 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: especially if you're talking about big pension funds and insurance 501 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: companies and the like. The good thing is that they're 502 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: looking at falling bond yields, issues with interest rates absolutely 503 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 1: low yield, sometimes negative, like in Switzerland it's negative seventy 504 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: five basis points what the bank charges you on your balance, 505 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 1: and they're seeing all of that and they need to 506 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 1: do something about it. So they are actually some of 507 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 1: the best conversations we have. But they are the conversations 508 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 1: we have that we know will take another two, three, four, 509 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 1: maybe five years to materialize into anything. And that's fine, 510 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 1: you continue to invest in that, but I think it 511 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 1: will be a while before this really tips the scale. 512 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 1: Which makes this such a unique asset because I'm pretty 513 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 1: sure that most asset classes are first embraced by the institutionals. 514 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: Honey frequent listeners of Price Goes Up know that Mike 515 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 1: likes to ask multiple multipart questions. So I have a 516 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 1: two part question for you as well. One one is 517 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 1: parts that's amateur. It's amateur, but it's it's big for me. 518 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 1: I usually like to keep it just one question. One 519 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 1: is it is Mike you might learn from that? Uh. 520 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,040 Speaker 1: One is we mentioned that you are the co founder 521 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 1: of A Moon and I wanted to ask you to 522 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 1: talk about a Moon a little bit because the reason 523 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 1: that you and I originally started talking is and the 524 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 1: reason I wanted to have you on the podcast is 525 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 1: that you were telling me about index tokens, and so 526 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 1: can you tell us what our index tokens? Describe why 527 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 1: you guys started working on this for our listeners. And 528 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: really it was the very first time I had heard 529 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 1: about them when when I when you told me about them, 530 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 1: So all of those details would be great. Absolutely. I 531 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: think it's all about the end consumer when you think 532 00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: about it. If our mission is to make crypto marks 533 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 1: a sessible and what we see ourselves doing is just 534 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: building bridges into the crypto world, if you want to 535 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: take that analogy to the limit, then there are different 536 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 1: vehicles for different people on that bridge. And that's sort 537 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 1: of how we see tokens overall, just conceptually, is that 538 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 1: for some people the product that makes the most sense 539 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 1: is an e t F my mother for example, a 540 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: fund manager for example. But for some people, and this 541 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: could be either a mix of maybe someone is more 542 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 1: technically savvy and technical and crypto forward. But and this 543 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: is where it's really important to us and how we've 544 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 1: initially thought about it. Maybe they're in a geography where 545 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: for the foreseeable future, a we will not be listed 546 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 1: locally on our local stock exchange and be they will 547 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: not have access to the markets that we are on. 548 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 1: Most people around the world don't have access to the 549 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 1: American stock exchange system, and that by itself is the 550 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: biggest one, let alone the German Stock Exchange or the 551 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: French stock exchange. And so we want to have a 552 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: product whether you are in Guatemala or in Germany, and 553 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 1: we want to continue having that. And there are indexes 554 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: that I can give to you in an ETP format. 555 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 1: But if you want to make a themed allocation into 556 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 1: say the metaverse or defy or or anything else, and 557 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: you want this for some reason as a Salona token 558 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: or an Ethereum token, we should have that product should 559 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 1: have our name on it as well. That's the basic 560 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: summary of why we do tokens and how we think 561 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: about it is greater accessibility. You do get into some 562 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 1: very interesting things though, with respect to like what kind 563 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 1: of products you can build in tokens, because it turns 564 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: out that when you start doing this, you'll then see 565 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 1: there's a lot of things I can do with tokens 566 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 1: that are impossible to do with the t f s, 567 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 1: and a couple of the other way around, but mostly 568 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 1: tokens are better in a lot of technological ways. You 569 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,719 Speaker 1: could build products that incentivized long term holding by air 570 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 1: draw up in the feedback at first certain period of time, 571 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 1: help and various things that you know you could not 572 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 1: do independently. And so there's all of those aspects to it, 573 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: which is how we broadly organize it. Think about it. 574 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 1: Tiden up your straight jackets. It's time for the craziest 575 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: things we saw in markets this week. Well, the way 576 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: I organized and think about things is in crazy things. 577 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: I don't know that's an awful seguet, but I'm trying here. 578 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 1: But let's get you. Have you start us off, what's 579 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 1: the craziest thing you saw in markets this week? Well, 580 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 1: as you know, my recent favorite topic to talk about, 581 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 1: which you and I have discussed, is football. So my 582 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: weirdest thing actually is a story about football. The Bloomberg 583 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 1: headline said, Lucky Better wins dollars with a twenty dollar 584 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 1: wager on NFL weekend games. So it was somebody who 585 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: bet the Bengals would beat Kansas City twenty four and 586 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 1: that the Rams would beat San Francisco T to seventeen. 587 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: It was a twenty by getting the scores and the 588 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:11,280 Speaker 1: winners correct. Wow, that's it's pretty amazing. Nine thousand dollars 589 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:16,320 Speaker 1: for a bet. Yeah, but they they're killing themselves for 590 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 1: not putting another twenty in the right. Well you wonder 591 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:25,360 Speaker 1: maybe maybe that person had a thousand twenty bets on 592 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:32,279 Speaker 1: all various permutations, but I hope. So I like this 593 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 1: story because I'm so bad at guessing the outcomes, Like 594 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 1: I definitely guessed the opposite for both for all for 595 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,840 Speaker 1: basically all of them all season. So this this is 596 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,759 Speaker 1: really striking to me. So no Draft Kings app for you. 597 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: Do not down that, don't download, that would be dangerous. 598 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,239 Speaker 1: But that's pretty good. One bill down. I'll give you. 599 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 1: I'll give you credit for that, and I will accept 600 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 1: sports gambling as a crazy market thing. You know, why not? 601 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,120 Speaker 1: Why not? Ino? How about you? How do you you've 602 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 1: seen anything crazy in the past week or so. I've 603 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,360 Speaker 1: done zero preparation for this, so I'll just say content 604 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:10,839 Speaker 1: thing that irks me. Coin Base is a bell weather 605 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 1: for crypto. Coin based is an incredibly undervalued company. No 606 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 1: one really understands coin based on the public markets. You 607 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,879 Speaker 1: could see this gulf between public and private in how 608 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,800 Speaker 1: ftx has pund raised this week versus the very public 609 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,719 Speaker 1: price coin base. At some point, ft x is a 610 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,360 Speaker 1: wonderful exchange. It's very quickly growing. It is small compared 611 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 1: to coin base, and if at some point the private 612 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,400 Speaker 1: markets are valuing it higher than things coin based publicly, 613 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:40,320 Speaker 1: that should say something. People are overreacting in general. Overall, 614 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 1: we see it with crypto prices. We also see it 615 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 1: with crypto public equities. And this is a clear case 616 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:48,960 Speaker 1: of like, read that coin based quarterly reports, see how 617 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,239 Speaker 1: much money they're holding, how much money they're making, what 618 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 1: they're actually doing, and you know, tell me somehow that 619 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,800 Speaker 1: it's worth thirty six billion dollars or whatever. Though the 620 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:02,320 Speaker 1: number that's it's pretty uscinating. I wonder if there's you know, 621 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: does that tell you something about sort of the amount 622 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 1: of private capital looking for a home and and uh, 623 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 1: you know something about that side of the market that 624 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:16,320 Speaker 1: is out of balance. Maybe? I think it mostly is 625 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 1: just a reflection of how short term cited the public 626 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,240 Speaker 1: market is. And I think you you deal with venture 627 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:28,480 Speaker 1: investors who are comfortable holding for five to ten years position, 628 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,840 Speaker 1: and that's not the case in the public markets. Crypto 629 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,840 Speaker 1: is going to go whatever the price of bitcoin is 630 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:37,320 Speaker 1: right now, which I am proud to say I do 631 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 1: not know. Crypto will go below this price. Crypto will 632 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 1: go above this price, but in a certain time period 633 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 1: five to ten years, crypto will materially be above wherever 634 00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,239 Speaker 1: we're at now in terms of adoption, in terms of price, 635 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,400 Speaker 1: in terms of usibility, in terms of a lot of 636 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:55,479 Speaker 1: other things. And I just think that bet is harder 637 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 1: to make in public markets overall than in private markets. Right, 638 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:01,239 Speaker 1: that makes a lot of sense. All right, I'll give 639 00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:05,720 Speaker 1: you my crazy thing. Um, I'm fascinated with domain names 640 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,279 Speaker 1: in web three domain names m because I'm old enough 641 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,319 Speaker 1: to remember back in the original dot com boom, all 642 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 1: the domain names squatting that went on, people thought, if 643 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 1: you bought the right domain name, and in many cases 644 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,279 Speaker 1: they're right, it ended up being worth a fortune. So 645 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,880 Speaker 1: kind of a similar thing going on with crypto domains 646 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,840 Speaker 1: um and the idea if you're not familiar, I think that, 647 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,160 Speaker 1: and honey, correct me if I'm wrong about any of this. 648 00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 1: But to me, the main appeal of having your own 649 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,600 Speaker 1: crypto domain is, you know, you can put your wallet 650 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 1: at that address, and then it's a lot easier to say, 651 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,399 Speaker 1: you know, send me some crypto to this Mike dot 652 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 1: ether or whatever. Then here's my you know, super long 653 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,280 Speaker 1: uh wallet address. What is it like forty forty numbers 654 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 1: and letters or however many it is. But so I 655 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:55,719 Speaker 1: was looking at the Salona name service yeah, bonfida yeah, 656 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,400 Speaker 1: and a little bit different than the Ethereum one. And 657 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,959 Speaker 1: that they they will allow you to buy a corporate name. Yeah, 658 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,120 Speaker 1: you know, so you can buy Like I was, I'm 659 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:09,400 Speaker 1: looking at their leaderboard. Number four is Starbucks dot s 660 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,720 Speaker 1: o L. I guess went for about interestingly, which seems 661 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:21,120 Speaker 1: low right interestingly, right right interestingly. A corporate name is 662 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:23,640 Speaker 1: not the top of their leaderboard. So I want the 663 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 1: two of you to hear me out here and try 664 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,839 Speaker 1: to guess what is at the top of it. Bill, Donna, 665 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,360 Speaker 1: if you had read my little contribution to the Crypto 666 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 1: newsletter this week, you would know this. But I think 667 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 1: that might if I'm with any luck. That's the one 668 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,080 Speaker 1: thing you haven't read, uh this week. I read it 669 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:43,720 Speaker 1: three times. Give us a hit. The top priced domain 670 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,920 Speaker 1: name for Salona is an emoji. It's not even a word, 671 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:51,759 Speaker 1: it's it's an emoji. So so guess the emoji and 672 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:55,799 Speaker 1: guests guess the prices a tiebreaker, you go first of all, Donna, Well, 673 00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,920 Speaker 1: I feel silly because I read your column three times, 674 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,880 Speaker 1: but I was sweeting it for grammatical errors. Would you 675 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,000 Speaker 1: tend to make a lot? Nothing gets full dot and 676 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:08,239 Speaker 1: we're excited than finding it a type something I've written? Yes, yeah, 677 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 1: So am I allowed to say poop emoji just for fun? 678 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,400 Speaker 1: It's that allowed on the podcast. I'm going to go 679 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,200 Speaker 1: with that, and I'll go with ten thousand. I guess, 680 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,240 Speaker 1: I don't know, just double the Starbucks alright, hotty Starbucks. 681 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,640 Speaker 1: So boomji was actually one of mine. Because ship coins 682 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 1: are a thing. I'm amazed. It's not Oh wait, wait, 683 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,759 Speaker 1: never mind, I'm giving them giving away that. I'm giving 684 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:42,640 Speaker 1: it away, the secret diamond hands. I gotta give it 685 00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:46,800 Speaker 1: the honey. It's it's just the diamond and and sixty 686 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:56,040 Speaker 1: thou dollars. What a guess. Wow, he's off bite neither one. 687 00:39:56,120 --> 00:40:00,160 Speaker 1: If you is allowed to ever sell me do why 688 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:07,160 Speaker 1: people will be contacting your people about there should be 689 00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:11,160 Speaker 1: a hand in there, diamond tomoji the hand. Well, apparently 690 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:15,200 Speaker 1: the single character ones are the most valuable, So yeah, 691 00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,919 Speaker 1: diamond hands would probably be up there too, I would mention. 692 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,440 Speaker 1: I think, um, that makes sense. I don't think I 693 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:25,480 Speaker 1: won that. I said, diamond hands, Yeah, close enough, close enough, 694 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:30,440 Speaker 1: better better than the disgusting one vildonna. Just at least 695 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,720 Speaker 1: I didn't curse, honey, curse. It was my number one choice, 696 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:41,839 Speaker 1: number one choice. It's a vertical in our space. It's 697 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:47,040 Speaker 1: an important to us at class at this point. But 698 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:49,279 Speaker 1: all right, well we'll see, we'll say maybe that one 699 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:54,480 Speaker 1: you may or may not have that ticker reserve. I 700 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:56,640 Speaker 1: think we just broke some news filled out. I think 701 00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,799 Speaker 1: we just broke some news. Yeah, I think we did well. 702 00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 1: I'm kidding. But but if I'm not kidding. I will 703 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:07,480 Speaker 1: do this right now. Fantastics all right, We'll have to 704 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:11,200 Speaker 1: check back on the leaderboard for the Salata domains. I 705 00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:14,520 Speaker 1: have a feeling maybe someone will. We'll hear this podcast 706 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:21,520 Speaker 1: and bit up that that discussing emoji that but you 707 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:25,080 Speaker 1: should you should buy it as a gift. You should 708 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:31,919 Speaker 1: be doing that. I'll see. I'll talk to our compliance people, 709 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,920 Speaker 1: see if I can get that get that whatever she wants. 710 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:37,560 Speaker 1: I'll air drop the poop emo g T. I don't 711 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:44,680 Speaker 1: know that that sounds disgusting, but honey, really fascinating conversation. 712 00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,440 Speaker 1: Can't thank you enough for your time. Hopefully we can 713 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,120 Speaker 1: do it again some day. Thank you so much because 714 00:41:50,280 --> 00:42:01,279 Speaker 1: a black Thank you, honey. What goes up? We'll be 715 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:03,400 Speaker 1: back next week. Until then, you can find us on 716 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,839 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Terminal website and app or wherever you get 717 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,359 Speaker 1: your podcasts. We'd love it if you took the time 718 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:11,800 Speaker 1: to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts so 719 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,480 Speaker 1: more listeners can find us. And you can find us 720 00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,920 Speaker 1: on Twitter. Follow me at bring Anonymous. Bildonta Hirich is 721 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:21,320 Speaker 1: at Bildonta hi Rich. You can also follow Bloomberg Podcasts 722 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:24,759 Speaker 1: at podcasts, and thank you to Charlie Pell to Bloomberg Radio. 723 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,080 Speaker 1: What Goes Up is produced by Laura Carlson. Ahead of 724 00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:31,960 Speaker 1: Bloomberg podcast is Francesco Levie. Thanks for listening, See you 725 00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:32,440 Speaker 1: next time.