1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: Body diamonds, but Joseph's gotten more Tipp County, Mississippi. I've 2 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: actually got ancestors that settled that part of Mississippi, if 3 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: you're not familiar with it. Actually, I've got a bunch 4 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: of them that settled all over Mississippi before they moved 5 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: on to Louisiana and parts unknown afterwards. But this area 6 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: is up in the northern part of Mississippi. It's not 7 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: really too far away from where one of the bloodiest 8 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: battles of the Civil War took place in courrinth mississippis 9 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:43,239 Speaker 1: like a couple of counties over. If you didn't know 10 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: any better, you would think that you were in the 11 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 1: middle of the wilderness. I'll be it quite beautiful around there, 12 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: but there's not a lot going on. And like much 13 00:00:56,240 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: of Mississippi, if you have money, you're probably the exception 14 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:07,960 Speaker 1: as opposed to the norm, and particularly if you've got, 15 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: as they say cash money in hand. Today we're going 16 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 1: to talk about a case of a particular violence or 17 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: level of violence, and we're also going to talk about 18 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: an individual that was self made and commonly had at 19 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: his disposal corp of a million dollars in cash, precious 20 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 1: metals and he's found dead out in his yard, and 21 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: even given all of that wealth, he himself could not 22 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: be shielded from being a homicide pect. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, 23 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: and this is body Bags, David. I got to tell you, man, this, 24 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: this case that we're about to chat about right now, 25 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: we were, uh, you know, kind of prattling on like 26 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 1: we like, we're like a couple of old guys like 27 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 1: to do anyway, you know, we we ought to we 28 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: ought to go find us a park somewhere that has 29 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: a bench and just take microphones with us and just 30 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: have have unbridled conversations out there. Uh. Of course, you know, 31 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: I'm kind of like a I'm kind of like a bass. 32 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 1: I guess shiny objects would distract really carefully, really quickly, 33 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:42,359 Speaker 1: and I would I would get off topic. But this 34 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:45,639 Speaker 1: came to the MOVIEU oh yeah, yeah, it's my Yeah, 35 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: my kid's favorite favorite movie. Yeah, the Dog. That's me. 36 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: I'm the squirrel Dog. Uh. But yeah, this this case. Uh, 37 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,639 Speaker 1: we were kind of uh going on about it earlier, 38 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 1: and you were working under the assumption that I had 39 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 1: appeared on some television show or something to cover this case. 40 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: And I got to tell you, I hadn't heard peep 41 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 1: about this, and if we were, if we were back 42 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 1: in the seventies or eighties, I'd say that this would 43 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 1: be a fantastic idea for a made for TV movie. 44 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: You remember on Sunday nights, Do you remember that back 45 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: in the day they would have the what was it, 46 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 1: the ABC Movie of the Week? You know, And yeah, 47 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: this is that kind of thing. Because it's so I 48 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: don't think it'd make it on the big screen, but 49 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 1: this would be a brilliant idea for a movie of 50 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: the week, because my lord, this thing is really complex 51 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: and just horribly brutal. 52 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 2: Dave, Well, here's the story. Caitlin Spence is at the 53 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 2: center of this, believe it or not. Caitlyn Spence thirty 54 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 2: eight years old or boyfriend Kirby Carpenter is thirty six. 55 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 2: As you mentioned, a guy that walks around with a 56 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 2: quarter million dollars cash. I mean, this is something that 57 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 2: I have not heard before, Joe, but apparently he did 58 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 2: have a lot of cash on him. And again I'm thinking, 59 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 2: do you take out a sign that says rob me? Now? 60 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 2: I mean I don't anyway, So Kirby, he's an entrepreneur, 61 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:34,039 Speaker 2: self made guy. Caitlin comes from a family of Jeffrey 62 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:37,799 Speaker 2: and Karen Spence, her mom and dad, and her dad 63 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 2: Jeffrey actually was in the news. I don't know how 64 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 2: many of you remember the story of the deer known 65 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 2: as Goliath. This is like in nineteen ninety nine, Goliath 66 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 2: was this massive deer and was worth a lot of 67 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 2: money in terms of putting him out the stud that 68 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 2: I didn't even know, and Goliath was worth millions in 69 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 2: that market. And it was Jeffrey Spence who actually kidnapped 70 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 2: or deer nap Goliath in nineteen ninety nine. He was 71 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 2: later convicted of that, but that's where his when if 72 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:19,159 Speaker 2: you searched him before this case with Kirby Carpenter, that's 73 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 2: what you would find that he was known for this 74 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 2: nationwide scandal. 75 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 1: Dave. You know right now, I'm kind of sitting back 76 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: and I'm thinking thinking about what you're saying. I've been 77 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: around deer hunting and deer hunters my entire life, and 78 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: you know, I've got visions of people sitting up in 79 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: tree stands and freezing their tails off for you know, 80 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: an opportunity to shoot a trophy buck and the idea 81 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: that out there and again this has come to somebody. 82 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:53,359 Speaker 1: I'm more of a duck hunter. I don't like the 83 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:57,679 Speaker 1: idea of climbing up in a tree, but the idea 84 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 1: that someone is actually breeding deer, yeah, to go out 85 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 1: and I don't know. I mean, I guess you could 86 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: take them out to locations. You know, they have those huge, 87 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: huge hunting hunting ranges that are privately owned, you know, 88 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: and that there would be value in this. You're talking 89 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:19,720 Speaker 1: about an animal that is back in the nineties as 90 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: a stud. He's worth a million dollars. 91 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 2: Right, twenty eight point twenty eight point white tailed deer buck. 92 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 2: That's the thing, Eliath and he was stolen. And I 93 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 2: love the name from wild Bunch, wild Bunch Ranch, deer farm. 94 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 2: It's just. 95 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: You can't make it up, No, But you know, listen, 96 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 1: I don't. I've met people that deal kind of around 97 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: the edges in precious metals as well, but that's an 98 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: entire another group, you know, where you talk about that, 99 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: we're not fully aware of that people are that are 100 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: doing this, and they're not necessarily working in jewelry store, right, 101 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 1: you know, they're they're out there, you know, shucking and jobbing, 102 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 1: grinding it out, trying to make a living. You know 103 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: you got I would think. 104 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 2: In twenty twenty five, Joe, in our day and age, 105 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 2: you don't walk around with that kind of cash. I mean, 106 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 2: I wouldn't look in Alabama. We've got a county here 107 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:19,679 Speaker 2: in Alabama that is on the way to the beach 108 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 2: that they have they've used the law to when you 109 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 2: get pulled for a ticket and they just go, I 110 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 2: think you're a drug dealer, and they take your vehicle, 111 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 2: they lock it up, lock you up, and then they 112 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 2: keep your car and the contents. It's one of these 113 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 2: things that happens. If you look it up and all 114 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 2: I'm thinking of they've locked people up and taken five grand. 115 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 2: Guy's on his way, he says, I'm going to buy 116 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 2: a used car. I have the cash to do that. 117 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 2: They're like, nope, you got five grand cash, you're a 118 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 2: drug dealer. And I'm thinking this guy's got a quarter. 119 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 2: He is known known to have a quarter of a 120 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 2: million dollars cash on his person. Now, unless he's driving 121 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 2: an armored hum V you know, made of the Aniston 122 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 2: Army depot in Alabama, this guy ain't safe from anybody. 123 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 2: When you got that kind of cash. 124 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: No, no, And it's you know, you talk about putting 125 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: blood in the water when you've got potential perpetrators that 126 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: are out there. So you know, from an investigative standpoint, Uh, 127 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: people are always looking for motive or motivation, you know, 128 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: for you know these things that we talk about that 129 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: are so incredibly brutal, because you're talking about the end 130 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:31,559 Speaker 1: of somebody's life through violence. What what's what's the end game? 131 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: You know, what's the motivation behind eradicating somebody off the 132 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 1: face of the planet. And people can say, yeah, well, 133 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: it's it's it's uh, it's about family, it's about kids, 134 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: It's about unrequited love or anger or jealousy and all 135 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: that stuff. It's it's interesting the world and true crime 136 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 1: that that we that we occupy. You hear a lot 137 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: about those motivations. But Dave, one of the oldest motivations 138 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: in the world is to line your pockets. 139 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 2: Joe Kirby Carpenter was found murdered. But I remember when 140 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 2: you told me about this. This is kind of maybe 141 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 2: why I thought you had been on other shows talking 142 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 2: about this particular case, but I found out you a 143 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 2: haven't talked on other shows about it, and b it's 144 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 2: not got there's not a lot of pub on this 145 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 2: case outside of where it took place. But we've mentioned 146 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 2: Kirby Carpenter having a lot of cash on him and 147 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 2: he was found dead. Kirby Carpenter was found dead on 148 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 2: his own property and his body was found days after 149 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 2: he was shot to death. Yeah, and when I looked 150 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 2: at this, I made a note for myself to ask 151 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 2: you because here's what this actually said when I was 152 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 2: reading this in the police report. Okay. Kirby Carpenter, a 153 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 2: successful entrepreneur and precious metals dealer, was found dead on 154 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:10,959 Speaker 2: December two, twenty twenty two. Police believe he was murdered 155 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 2: with a shotgun or a firearm that fires shotgun style 156 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 2: shells yep, on November thirtieth, shortly after he returned home 157 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 2: from a grocery store trip. Joseph Scott Morgan a gun 158 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 2: that fires shotgun like bells? 159 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, what is that? Well, you've got a variety of 160 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: these platforms that are out there. You know, typically we 161 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: think about when you begin to consider the variety of 162 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 1: platforms that you can fire shotgun like shells from, there's 163 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:54,199 Speaker 1: a myriad of these things that exist. And when traditionally 164 00:10:54,600 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: shotguns have always been classified as smooth bore weapons. What 165 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: that means is that unlike a rifled weapon that has 166 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: grooves that are turned literally turned, and when I say turned, 167 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 1: I mean it's actually put on a device and turned 168 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: in the factory, and it creates. 169 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 2: The bullet comes straight out as it's spins, right. 170 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, And so there's any number of reasons why you know, 171 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: why rifles are so highly effective, because they retain the 172 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 1: energy by spinning, and you can put around on target 173 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: from a greater distance. And with the shotguns. Shotgun is 174 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: smooth bore, so it's a smooth almost well smooth pipe 175 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: and you're firing a projectile down this pipe. And now 176 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: most of the time these rounds will have a will 177 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 1: actually have a sleeve that is discharged from the shell itself. 178 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:09,320 Speaker 1: And as it's going down the tube, when the round 179 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: exits that has been fired, this sleeve begins to open up, 180 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: almost like a flower pedal, and it's contained the shots. 181 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 1: The shot actually is contained in there. And as that 182 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:25,439 Speaker 1: sleeve deploys, and if you urge any of you guys 183 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:28,679 Speaker 1: to go and look at this in slow motion, it's fascinating. 184 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: You can see these on YouTube. The sleeve actually kind 185 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: of flutters off in super slow mo. It looks almost 186 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:41,559 Speaker 1: like a helicopter turned on its side. Well, what happens 187 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: is as the scene deploys, as it comes out of 188 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: the barrel, the shot is now blasted out into the air, 189 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: and the shot it varies in size. You have all 190 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: kinds of things like bird shot for instance, that's used 191 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 1: for obviously birds, but also small varmints that you can 192 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: kill out in the yard. You know, if you've got 193 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: things that are you know, tearing up your yard, or 194 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: you know, you go out west and you've got people 195 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: that are out there having to deal with prairie dogs 196 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: and all that sort of stuff, you're going to put around. 197 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: There's a high probability and put rounds on target because 198 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:19,439 Speaker 1: it has a spread to it. Now, the downside downside 199 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: with a shotgun is that it is very inefficient when 200 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: it comes to energy over a long distance. But if 201 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: you're a close range it's one of the most powerful, 202 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: powerful platforms in the world. As a matter of fact, 203 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:39,319 Speaker 1: you can almost guarantee that whoever's on the receiving end 204 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:57,199 Speaker 1: of it is going to meet their maker. When an 205 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: individual is thinking about committee amicide and they they're able 206 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 1: to put thought into it. What do you do next? 207 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 1: Where do you go? Well, in this particular case, someone 208 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: chose a highly lethal platform, a weapon that's utilized to 209 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: great effect here and literally led to this man's death. 210 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: Just hard to understand how many times he was shot, 211 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: but we know that he was shot with something that 212 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: appears to be a shotgun round. 213 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 2: Dave, all right, let me ask you this because when 214 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 2: people talk about shotguns, they'll talk about buckshot or bird shot, 215 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 2: and I know there's a difference. I do know that 216 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 2: when people go hunting, they tend to like for deer, 217 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 2: they tend to use a rifle going shoot hunting, for 218 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 2: ducks shotgun, I mean, what are the differences? Because for 219 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 2: the average Joe Schmo that doesn't use a gun. Yeah, 220 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 2: that doesn't help. I understand the difference. One's a knuckleball 221 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 2: and one's a fastball. 222 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: Hey, that's a good analogy. I like that, well done. 223 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 2: But here we've got a murder and it's a shotgun. 224 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 2: So what kind of shotgun blasts did it take? 225 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: Yeah? So okay, let me throw this out to you 226 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: just so folks understand again, this is just kind of 227 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: a real quick primer. You think about shotguns versus rifles, 228 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: isn't it interesting The higher the number, the higher the 229 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: number you go with caliber weapons, and caliber is is 230 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: the British standard measurement as opposed to a metric, So 231 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: like ten millimeter versus thirty caliber. All right, thirty caliber 232 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: is an indication of the measurement relative to inches. Okay, 233 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: so you know three you think about point three inches 234 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: in diameter, that's what you're talking about with like thirty 235 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: thirty caliber. We've heard a lot about that relative to 236 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: Charlie Kirk's assassination thirty odd to six. Whereas and the 237 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: higher that number goes Dave. So with rifled rounds, the 238 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: larger the diameter. Did you know that? It is just 239 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 1: the opposite with gauges. The smaller the number on a gauge, Okay, 240 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 1: the smaller the number on the gauge, the more robust 241 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: the bit of lead is that's coming out. So if 242 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: you're talking about if you hear someone say twelve gate shotgun, 243 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: which is kind of the standard, okay, that you come 244 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: across the most that's what cops generally carry, you know, 245 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: in their vehicles. It's what our troops first carried actually 246 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: as an issued weapon. In World War One, you had 247 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 1: these pump shotguns that were called trench guns, and the 248 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: Germans were terrified of them because when you came into 249 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 1: a trench, you're clearing out a trench that has embedded 250 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 1: troops in there. You can fire the shotgun and you 251 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:12,199 Speaker 1: don't have to be altogether accurate. You can really do 252 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 1: some serious damage at close range, wounding people with this 253 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: thing going and so that's kind of come down through 254 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 1: the years. So going up in number, you can have 255 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: a twelve gauge, then you go to a smaller size 256 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 1: shot next leap is generally up to like a sixteen gauge. 257 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:38,640 Speaker 1: Beyond that you have twenty gauge, and there's all kinds 258 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: of gauges that are in between. One of the really 259 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:47,199 Speaker 1: robust ones is actually a ten gage shotgun, which if 260 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:50,679 Speaker 1: you fire slug, which is a solid it's not like 261 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: multiple shot. It's a hunk of lead that's going down range. 262 00:17:55,000 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: People have actually hunted hunted elephants with ten gates shotguns. 263 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: So it's a really robust weapon and it's a robust 264 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 1: platform that The trick is you have to get close 265 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: enough to your subject in order to be able to 266 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 1: use it. If you're talking about a buck shot round 267 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:18,200 Speaker 1: that you're firing out of out of either you can't 268 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 1: have a firearm. Right now, I'm thinking one of the 269 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 1: interesting platforms is out there is called a judge. It's 270 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: made by Tarus. It's been around for several years. Actually 271 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 1: a revolver, and the revolver actually fires, actually fires four 272 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 1: to ten four to ten shotgun rounds out of it, 273 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:40,959 Speaker 1: so you can fire bird shot out of it. You 274 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: can fire you can fire buck shot out of it, 275 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 1: four to ten buckshot and this would be concealable. It's 276 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 1: still a robust weapon when you see it. It's actually 277 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:57,159 Speaker 1: the framework is actually larger than like if people are 278 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:01,199 Speaker 1: familiar with Dirty Harry the forty four magnum. It's the 279 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: framework of the scene is even a little bit larger 280 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: than that, and it has to be able to accommodate, 281 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,959 Speaker 1: you know, accommodate this this this round that you're going 282 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:11,879 Speaker 1: to be firing out of it. But it's highly effective. 283 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: You know, you're if you're within if you're within ten 284 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: feet of somebody and you have this Judge weapon, all 285 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: you have to do is essentially just kind of line 286 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 1: up the iron sight that's on the end of the 287 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: of the of the of the barrel itself. You don't 288 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 1: have to look through the rear sight. You can just 289 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: put that and point it, pull the trigger. And now 290 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: you don't have just a single bullet going down range 291 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 1: or a projectile. Now you've got multiple projectiles. That could 292 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 1: be like having a spray of multiple shots being fired 293 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,439 Speaker 1: at one time from a rifled weapon. With this, you 294 00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:00,360 Speaker 1: fire at one time. With buckshot, you've got all these 295 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: pellets are rounds that are going down a range and 296 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 1: they strike an individual. Well, now you're not just dealing 297 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 1: with one bullet hole. You're dealing with multiple bullet holes. 298 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:15,119 Speaker 1: That's the upside with the scene because for the spread 299 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: that you're talking about with a scene can actually rip 300 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:23,399 Speaker 1: apart anatomically, it can go through multiple sites. I understand 301 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: that this poor man when he was shot, Dave. It 302 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 1: was interesting because they talked about how he has got 303 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: a wound that involves both now listen to this, both 304 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 1: his head and his neck. 305 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 2: Let's get into this real quick, Joe. From the standpoint 306 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 2: of where he was found, we have a story to 307 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 2: give you. Basically that November thirty twenty twenty two. That's 308 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 2: the day we're talking about here. The people involved. Kirby Carpenter, 309 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,880 Speaker 2: he's the victim. He's the entrepreneur, carries a lot of cash, 310 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,919 Speaker 2: he's a precious metals dealer. His girlfriend, Caitlin Spence, who 311 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,880 Speaker 2: they've had, they have a child together. Matter of fact, 312 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:12,919 Speaker 2: Caitlin's parents have come to help take care of the 313 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 2: baby during the the you know, the early part of 314 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 2: having a child can be difficult. And so Caitlyn's mom 315 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 2: and dad, Jeffrey and all her name's escaping me right now, Karen, 316 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 2: thank you. So Karen and Jeffrey come to help. And 317 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:37,439 Speaker 2: when you look at the end result of mom, dad, daughter, 318 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 2: nuclear family with the grandchild, now Kirby's outnumbered. Kirby Carpenter's 319 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 2: body is found dead December second. And when his body 320 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 2: is found, Joseph Scott Morgan, you explained it to me 321 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 2: that it was found under a tarp with a tool 322 00:21:58,960 --> 00:21:59,679 Speaker 2: truck box on. 323 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: It was actually yeah, they're they're describing it as a 324 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:03,679 Speaker 1: shower curtain. 325 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 2: And it was near his house. It wasn't like in 326 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 2: the driveway, but it was near his house. 327 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. And and then and at first when I first 328 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: heard the story of the saying, I'm thinking, okay, when 329 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: you say toolbox to me, well, I've got toolbox in 330 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,239 Speaker 1: my shed, and it's something with a handle on it, 331 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,160 Speaker 1: and you know, and I can do it. And it's 332 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: very disorganized, by the way, but you can walk around 333 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: with this thing and carry that. Ain't what they're talking about, dude. 334 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 2: They're talking about the one in the back of the truck, 335 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 2: aren't they. 336 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they're talking about And I think if I'm 337 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 1: not mistaken, and you guys are, you know, free to 338 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 1: correct me with this, but I think there's actually a 339 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: brand that is actually called Toolbox, and they fit into 340 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: the bed of a pickup truck and it, you know, 341 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:51,479 Speaker 1: it takes some work to move this thing around. Uh, 342 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: you know most of the Well, first off, they're awkward, 343 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: all right. So if you're putting one into the bed 344 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:01,680 Speaker 1: of a truck, it's going to be a minimum of 345 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 1: two person job to lift the thing and to move 346 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 1: it because it sits directly behind the cap, all right. 347 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 1: And people have them for a variety of reasons, you know. 348 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: They you know, trucks you don't have a lot of 349 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: room to carry like items that you know, normally you 350 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 1: might put in your trunk. And then if you've got 351 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: people that use this their truck for labor, you know 352 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: they're going to keep literally their tools, you know, carpenter 353 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 1: might keep his tool belt in there and all kinds 354 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: of other stuff. But yeah, this thing was actually sitting 355 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 1: on top of the body and he was covered in 356 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: a plastic curtain, and that's kind of the way they've 357 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 1: described it. But he wasn't that far away from the house, Dave. 358 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:52,400 Speaker 1: Which is interesting this this guy lived his house where 359 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: the proper house sat is on ten acres, all right, 360 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: then he's got an adjacent bit of proper party that 361 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: is multiple acres where you know his body could have 362 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: been placed. And let me in case you're wondering out there, 363 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 1: you don't have a shotgun wound and you drag yourself 364 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: out in the woods, you know, cover yourself with a 365 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 1: plastic curtain and then pull a tool box. Somebody did this. 366 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:25,119 Speaker 1: You know this this is an action, and you know 367 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 1: you think about I do at least you think about 368 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:33,360 Speaker 1: the the the work that would have to go into this, 369 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 1: And Daved, I got to tell you, it just doesn't 370 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: seem like the people that were involved in this really 371 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:46,399 Speaker 1: put much effort into, uh, you know, keeping his body 372 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: out of view. It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to walk 373 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: out there and find the body. You know. You know 374 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:03,400 Speaker 1: that upon discovery of the remains, it wasn't even completely covered. 375 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: There was a hand hanging out and a boot boot 376 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: and a boot, yeah, and a boot. 377 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:09,400 Speaker 2: So I was trying to think of if you were 378 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 2: to walk up in my driveway. Yeah, and a couple 379 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 2: hundred yards away you see what appears to be a 380 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 2: body boot, handsticking out and covered with a curtain, a curtain, 381 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 2: a shower curtain, and a tool blocks out of the 382 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 2: back of a pickup truck. Not only is that not 383 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 2: well hidden, that is screaming. Hey followed the drag marks 384 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 2: to find the actual shot places where he was shot. 385 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're actually word drag marks, which is fascinating 386 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: to me, you know, the the idea that you can 387 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 1: because people, I think that a lot of folks think 388 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: that we go out onto scenes and we will find 389 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: blood trails in drag marks and footprints and everything. You 390 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: don't do you, no, you don't. You don't as frequently, 391 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:03,920 Speaker 1: so when you find it, it's a I'm reflecting on 392 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:10,479 Speaker 1: an old case that I worked in Atlanta where and 393 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 1: it was classic. It's like something that was out of 394 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 1: a out of one forensics textbook or crime scene textbook, 395 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:23,640 Speaker 1: where we actually did have drag marks with an individual 396 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: is wearing boots and the heels drug in the dirt 397 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: and so you've got these furrows that literally led to 398 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 1: where the body was and not to mention, there were 399 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: adjacent footprints moving backwards. So I mean, you had this 400 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: classic thing. You know, it's like if they were going 401 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,479 Speaker 1: to do an episode of Scooby Doo, you know, this 402 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,880 Speaker 1: is what you would look. But that most of the time, 403 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: it's kind of the exception. I tell you, what we 404 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: find more often than drag marks is many times we'll 405 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,680 Speaker 1: certainly find blood, you know, dropless of blood. And I 406 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:56,920 Speaker 1: think that that's what most of us are keyed into. 407 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: But the fact that they found drag marks, and drag 408 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: marks are very particular when you look at them, and 409 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:09,679 Speaker 1: they're very demonstrable in court. So if just imagine you're 410 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,879 Speaker 1: sitting in court and crime scene technician is on the 411 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:19,439 Speaker 1: stand and the council says, you know, officer Smith, you 412 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,639 Speaker 1: know what are what are you demonstrating right here in 413 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 1: this image that we see before the court. Right now, 414 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,399 Speaker 1: he says, do you see these two lines in the dirt? 415 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: Do you see these? And they've got little striations in them. 416 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:35,159 Speaker 1: Yet that's that is consistent with what we believe are 417 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,919 Speaker 1: drag marks. And all of a sudden the jury can 418 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,640 Speaker 1: look at that and say, oh, okay, yeah I could yeah, okay, 419 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: I can see that. It's it's a very powerful bit. 420 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,159 Speaker 1: And if you can get that documented, but you have 421 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 1: to consider everything else around they've on on his car 422 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 1: port of his home, there's actually a large pool of 423 00:27:55,600 --> 00:28:00,199 Speaker 1: blood you know, that was initially there. And I'm not 424 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 1: making light of this. It's just like, you know who's 425 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 1: doing this, the Marx Brothers, because it's so it's so ridiculous, 426 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: how very little you know gray matter was used in 427 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:15,680 Speaker 1: trying to perpetrate this thing. 428 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 2: Now, if it was a robbery, though, let's just play 429 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 2: this for a minute. If it's a robbery and you're 430 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,640 Speaker 2: killing him to take his money, because everybody knows he's 431 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 2: got cash, right, you wouldn't bother dragging the body. You 432 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 2: wouldn't worry about cleaning up the mess. You would just 433 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:32,439 Speaker 2: do him, take off, get out of there as soon 434 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 2: as you can. However, yes, if you're not just stealing 435 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 2: his money there's something else going on, then you would 436 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 2: drag the body away and try to do some cover up. 437 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,239 Speaker 2: I guess that's all I could think of is as 438 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 2: police are looking at this, Joe, do they talk out 439 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 2: loud like Okay, if it was a robbery, the body 440 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 2: would be right here. But it's more than that, because 441 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 2: the body has been drug over here, and the placement 442 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 2: of the toolbox on top of the shower curtain over 443 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 2: the body, I'm thinking, couldn't you get the person that 444 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 2: helped you load the toolbox out of the back of 445 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 2: the truck and put it on top. Couldn't you that 446 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 2: person have helped you, you know, toe the body so 447 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 2: you didn't have drag marks. I mean, I'm just thinking, 448 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 2: we've all watched TV. We know how crimes are solved. 449 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 2: This is like a really bad episode of a bad 450 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 2: TV show. 451 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: Well, why'd you think I said it's a movie of 452 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: the week. It's not gonna be a feature film. Okay, Yeah, 453 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 1: this is not this. This doesn't this doesn't go to 454 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 1: the heights of a hitchcocky and kind of thrill earlier. 455 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 2: All right, this is true life it actually happened. 456 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, it actually did happen. And I think there's so 457 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 1: many people out there believe that if they, you know, 458 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: if they make some kind of effort like this, half 459 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: hearted as it was, that it's going to put put 460 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 1: the police off or the investigators off, the forensics teams off. 461 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: And it's not because in killing him. And I love 462 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 1: the fact that you you mentioned having been moved if 463 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 1: it was a robbery, because most of the time was robberies. 464 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 1: Most of the time was robberies. It's hit it and 465 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 1: get it. Okay, you're going to try to get out 466 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: of there as quickly as you can. But just in 467 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: case you were wondering, here's another bit clue. When this 468 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: man was found beneath this plastic curtain and beneath this 469 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: toolbox it's placed on his body, there was one other 470 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 1: critical bit that they found with him. He still had 471 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 1: over two thousand dollars in cash in his pockets. Years ago, 472 00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 1: I worked a case involving a biker gang that walked 473 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: into a bar in Atlanta and they shot three people 474 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 1: and killed them. And one of one of the people 475 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 1: that was killed was the owner. And he's supposed to 476 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: be a pretty nice fellow. Everybody knew him. He was 477 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: found curled up adjacent to a bar stool. I still 478 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 1: got this image in my mind and laying in kind 479 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 1: of a fetal position, a pool of blood. And when 480 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 1: I went to examine his body, I found nine hundred 481 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 1: dollars and rolled cash in his pocket. And you know, 482 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: you think, okay, bar cash, cash business. You know, it's 483 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 1: particularly back then. You didn't have some sorority girl coming 484 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 1: in with her dad's credit card and just tapping something. 485 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 1: All right, that's not happening. All right. Guy had a 486 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: lot of cash, you know, on him, and the important 487 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 1: phrase there is on him. So not only did he 488 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: still have money in his pocket, there was a pool 489 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 1: table that was there, Dave, and a pocketbook that was 490 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: open and it was filled with prepackaged hits of meth. 491 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 1: And as you walk around the bar, there's a patron 492 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: that was coming out of the bathroom. This happened just 493 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 1: after closing time, and he took around right in the eye. 494 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 1: He was dead. The guy that owned the bar was 495 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 1: shot twice in the back. And then you had to 496 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 1: go all the way outside into the rear of this 497 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: bar and out there in this dirty paved area. There 498 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 1: was a barmaid that was laying there, and I'll never 499 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: forget it. She had a daytona biker week tank top 500 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 1: on and she had taken two rounds in the chest 501 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: and one right in a face, and she had escaped 502 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: from the top level down through an interior stairwell and 503 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 1: shot out the back well. There were three assailants in 504 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 1: this case. They flushed her like you do a quail. 505 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 1: There was a guy actually standing outside in the rear 506 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 1: parking lot adjacent to the door that she fled out of, 507 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: and he popped her. As soon as she came out 508 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 1: of this thing, she stumbled and shot her in the 509 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 1: chest and then walked up and fired down into her, 510 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 1: even shooting her in the face. Well, the dope was 511 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 1: left there, the cash was there, the till had not 512 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: even been opened. So you think about these sorts of things, 513 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 1: and you think about motivations. What's the end game here? Well, 514 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: she had been It had nothing to do with the 515 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:08,840 Speaker 1: bar owner. It had nothing to do with the patron. 516 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 1: It had to do with the bar maid who had 517 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 1: been dealing for this biker gang, and she had kept 518 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 1: them out of the loot relative to money, and they 519 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 1: were sending a message with her death. So it's amazing 520 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:27,279 Speaker 1: what you can learn, not just what's left behind in 521 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 1: a case like this relative to trace evidence, but what's 522 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 1: left behind relative to the life these people lead and 523 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 1: the makeup of their world. And you know, it revolved 524 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,919 Speaker 1: around drugs, and it revolved around money, but they didn't 525 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 1: need that nine hundred dollars or whatever it was it 526 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,880 Speaker 1: was rolled up in this guy's pocket. You think about 527 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 1: our victim here in rural Mississippi, Well, Dave, he's got 528 00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 1: over two thousand dollars in cash. I don't even I 529 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 1: was trying to do the calculus on this the other 530 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 1: day and when I was reading over this, and I 531 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 1: was thinking, could I put two thousand dollars in my pocket? Yea, 532 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 1: even if you've got it in one hundred dollars bills, 533 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 1: it's like you're you're still gonna you're gonna know that 534 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 1: you've got two thousand dollars in your pocket. 535 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,320 Speaker 2: You know, this is a guy that regularly carries a 536 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 2: lot of cash on him. So yeah, know he had ways. 537 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:23,919 Speaker 2: But let me let me get into something really quick. 538 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 2: Friends just to go back to because they got to 539 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 2: solve this crime. We've documented that he was shot in 540 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,840 Speaker 2: the carpoard. There's a pull of blood there. There's drag 541 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 2: marks to where his body was found underneath the shower 542 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:44,239 Speaker 2: curtain with a truck toolbox on top of him when 543 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:46,239 Speaker 2: you go back, because they got to solve this who 544 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:50,759 Speaker 2: did it. He's the father of a baby with his 545 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 2: girlfriend Kaitlin. And when you look at the dates when 546 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,400 Speaker 2: he was found on December second, backing up, they do 547 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 2: have a kind of game, a time line of what 548 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 2: was going on. They've got at six thirty on November thirtieth, 549 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,919 Speaker 2: Kirby texts Caitlin that he is passing this tire store 550 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,319 Speaker 2: on his way home about six thirty or so. You know, 551 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:16,000 Speaker 2: Kirby is believed to a stop at Kroger grocery store. 552 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:17,920 Speaker 2: I say thought to believe because they got a receipt 553 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 2: and they got groceries later found in the truck floorboard 554 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,359 Speaker 2: or the passenger floorboard of his vehicle. All right, now, 555 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 2: think about that for just a minute. You're tracing this 556 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 2: guy's last activity before he is murdered. Stops at a 557 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:36,160 Speaker 2: grocery store, picks up groceries, and the groceries are found 558 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,760 Speaker 2: in the floorboard of his truck. On the passenger side, 559 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,360 Speaker 2: so he was killed like in an ambush before he 560 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 2: could even get because what do you do when you 561 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,520 Speaker 2: get from the grocery store. You grab the bags and 562 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,600 Speaker 2: you head in the house. That's standard. You try to 563 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:51,399 Speaker 2: get them all at one time. If not, you come back. 564 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,520 Speaker 2: He did not get the groceries out of his car, 565 00:36:55,080 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 2: so the investigators believe that he was kind of ambushed. 566 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,280 Speaker 2: At seven fifteen, Caitlin Spence is seen at a Walmart 567 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 2: with their baby, and it's important to note this because 568 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,920 Speaker 2: they're trying to figure out who killed him. Well, Caitlin's 569 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,640 Speaker 2: at a Walmart at the time they believe he's killed. 570 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 2: A surveillance footage shows her inside the store. They also 571 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,959 Speaker 2: the surveillance camera show her in her car for close 572 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:29,600 Speaker 2: to an hour. After that, she texts Kirby referencing running 573 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 2: into a crazy dog lady from tractor supply and asking 574 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:39,480 Speaker 2: if he wants Chinese food now. He never replies, and 575 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,759 Speaker 2: based on everything we know, obvious, you know that that 576 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 2: was she knows he's dead. She's leaving these crumbs for 577 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,680 Speaker 2: cops to, you know, go that way. It wasn't me. 578 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:51,880 Speaker 2: I'm trying to find out if he wants Chinese for dinner. 579 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,399 Speaker 2: According to Kaitlin, she didn't see Kirby that day. Now, 580 00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,400 Speaker 2: think about this for a minute, Joe. She texts him 581 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 2: about dinner, you want Chinese for dinner. But then and 582 00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,239 Speaker 2: she's got the baby with her, but she gets on, 583 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,640 Speaker 2: she doesn't see him again. Last communication was joined Chinese 584 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,480 Speaker 2: for dinner, and then she never hears from him. That 585 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,719 Speaker 2: doesn't Hey, if that was you and me, you know, 586 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,440 Speaker 2: if we had plans and I said I'm bringing Chinese 587 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 2: over to your house, Joe, and uh, you don't hear 588 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:21,319 Speaker 2: from me. Are you not going to try to figure 589 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:22,440 Speaker 2: out what happened? Oh? 590 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:27,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, most definitely. And look, dude, I mean, as as 591 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,080 Speaker 1: much as I love you to death, we don't live together, 592 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:35,800 Speaker 1: all right. They these people share they share a home together, 593 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 1: and their mom and dad are with them, and most yeah, 594 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,200 Speaker 1: they're living there as well. Mom and dad had come 595 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:44,239 Speaker 1: down and they Dave. They were only supposed to have 596 00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,280 Speaker 1: been there. I think it was like maybe two weeks 597 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:48,160 Speaker 1: or three weeks. 598 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 2: Dude. 599 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:53,800 Speaker 1: This turns into a multi month occupation of this man's property. 600 00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,440 Speaker 2: Right, and you're right, it's an occupation of his property. 601 00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:58,440 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, what a good phrase. 602 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:02,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, and listen, I submit to you that 603 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:07,239 Speaker 1: them coming down and staying there with him. I would 604 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:12,320 Speaker 1: argue that this is a surveillance of him learning everything 605 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:18,600 Speaker 1: that you know, because if she's the daughter, Caitlin, his girlfriend, 606 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:23,120 Speaker 1: mother of his child, the victim, she's already told mom 607 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,960 Speaker 1: and dad, oh man, this guy deals and you know, 608 00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:30,439 Speaker 1: and hundreds and thousands of dollars worth of cash. We've 609 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:34,000 Speaker 1: got cash everywhere. There's safes here, there's you know, he's 610 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:38,160 Speaker 1: got precious metals and coins and everything else. Well suddenly, 611 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:42,400 Speaker 1: you know, kind of swooping on down from up north 612 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:46,680 Speaker 1: and coming to Mississippi, you know, you're thinking, okay, all right, 613 00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 1: well let me check this thing out and see who 614 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:54,279 Speaker 1: she's living with. We're talking about a dad, by the way, Dave, 615 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:59,760 Speaker 1: that is already previously convicted felon, that has done time 616 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:03,239 Speaker 1: in the joint. All right, so it's not like he's 617 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:07,200 Speaker 1: new to the game, you know what I'm saying. And yeah, 618 00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,800 Speaker 1: it ain't his first rodeo, and he's used to taking 619 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:13,080 Speaker 1: things that do not belong to him. We have stepped 620 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,840 Speaker 1: back just for a second. You know, Caitlin's the one 621 00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:20,759 Speaker 1: that actually found his body. You know, she goes out 622 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,440 Speaker 1: to the scene and she claims that, you know, she 623 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:27,280 Speaker 1: was checking a deer stand. She walks back on the 624 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,600 Speaker 1: back part of his property. She claims that she didn't 625 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:35,160 Speaker 1: see anything back there, which, okay, I'll give her the 626 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:39,800 Speaker 1: benefit of the doubt. Here we're in early December, which 627 00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:42,040 Speaker 1: you're in the middle of deer season at this point 628 00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,759 Speaker 1: in time. You know, deer season generally starts and you know, 629 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:50,040 Speaker 1: right around Thanksgiving. And she says that she went back 630 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,000 Speaker 1: there and it's only on her way back to the 631 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,320 Speaker 1: house that she finds. She's the one that discovers the body, 632 00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:59,000 Speaker 1: having not talked to him. And you know, in a 633 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:03,840 Speaker 1: couple of days, and now in the in the face 634 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: of all this, where you've got a child with him, 635 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:11,479 Speaker 1: his family is grieving, you pack up and you leave 636 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:15,920 Speaker 1: town man and leaving the life that you've created down there, 637 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:18,640 Speaker 1: you leave it in you know, in the rear view 638 00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:22,719 Speaker 1: mirror here, Dave, Yeah, it seems as though that that 639 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:28,200 Speaker 1: there's a callousness that exists with this, and you have 640 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 1: to think about, you know what, what's the motivating factor 641 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:34,800 Speaker 1: here relative to how could you just essentially walk away 642 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,759 Speaker 1: from a life that you've created in this environment. And 643 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:41,120 Speaker 1: in my estimation, Dave, the parents throughout this entire thing 644 00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:45,520 Speaker 1: are the key to this. Right, they're they're they're her protectors. 645 00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,600 Speaker 1: But what are they What does she have that they're 646 00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,040 Speaker 1: they're trying to protect? Or what does a da? What 647 00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,839 Speaker 1: does what does the dad perceive that she has? Now 648 00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,840 Speaker 1: I submit to you, it's it's knowledge. It's firsthand knowledge 649 00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,600 Speaker 1: of what actually happened. They have not They've not really 650 00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,480 Speaker 1: dove into this as much as I would have liked 651 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:09,160 Speaker 1: liked to. And again, this case has not offered up 652 00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:13,680 Speaker 1: a lot of information relative to some of some of 653 00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,600 Speaker 1: the specific details. But we do know that there is 654 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:22,440 Speaker 1: a spread, a spread of this round that involves both 655 00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,400 Speaker 1: the head and the neck. Now, this is this is 656 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,719 Speaker 1: interesting because if we if we continue down this road 657 00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:32,520 Speaker 1: of the ambush theory, which in order to commit an 658 00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:35,839 Speaker 1: ambush on somebody, you have to either suspect that they're 659 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,640 Speaker 1: going to be coming through a specific area or you 660 00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,640 Speaker 1: suspect that they will be arriving back at a specific area. 661 00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:45,040 Speaker 1: So you have to have prior knowledge in most of 662 00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:47,800 Speaker 1: these kind of cases like this of a person's comings 663 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:52,560 Speaker 1: and goings. So what happened under that car port. Why 664 00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:56,239 Speaker 1: is it that you know the groceries are left in 665 00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:59,080 Speaker 1: the truck, that you've gone to Kroger to purchase these 666 00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:01,640 Speaker 1: groceries and you're not going to take them out, So 667 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,920 Speaker 1: with somebody waiting there, Well, they were waiting there, and 668 00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:10,120 Speaker 1: I think that they're waiting at a lethal range. When 669 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:14,600 Speaker 1: it comes to buckshot where you're going to have an 670 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,920 Speaker 1: individual that steps out, you do have a spread on this. 671 00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,960 Speaker 1: You're talking about it going from the neck to the face. 672 00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:25,040 Speaker 1: So in order to get that kind of range, you 673 00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:28,280 Speaker 1: would have to be apart from them, I would say 674 00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:34,359 Speaker 1: at least probably about at five feet maybe in order 675 00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:36,359 Speaker 1: for this thing to begin to spread out. So it's 676 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:38,719 Speaker 1: going to hit this target area like this, if you're 677 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,200 Speaker 1: really close on somebody. Okay, do you remember how I 678 00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:43,719 Speaker 1: talked about those rounds are in a sleeve and that 679 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:48,399 Speaker 1: thing kind of deploys. Well, the further away from the 680 00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:54,400 Speaker 1: muzzle of the barrel to your target, the bigger the 681 00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:56,480 Speaker 1: spread is going to be. So if you're you know, 682 00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:58,799 Speaker 1: if you're with a shotgun and you're I don't know, 683 00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:02,279 Speaker 1: you're twenty feet away, you're not going to get every 684 00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,680 Speaker 1: one of those rounds on target. It will spread out. 685 00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:08,040 Speaker 1: But the closer you are, now you've got and you 686 00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,600 Speaker 1: just think about buckshot itself. It's each one of those 687 00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,080 Speaker 1: little balls is thirty two caliber. So it's like having 688 00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:16,359 Speaker 1: multiple thirty two caliber gunshot wounds all at one time. 689 00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:20,239 Speaker 1: And so this thinge had sufficient distance to spread out 690 00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:22,400 Speaker 1: to strike him not only the head but also in 691 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,719 Speaker 1: the neck. Whoever caught him caught him unawares, and they 692 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,080 Speaker 1: knew that he was going to be at that location. Well, 693 00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,920 Speaker 1: who has access to that information, Well his girlfriend slash 694 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,720 Speaker 1: mother of his child, his mother in law. Who's now, 695 00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:40,800 Speaker 1: I mean, let's face it, after months, you're domiciled there, 696 00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:45,839 Speaker 1: that's your residence now. And the father, the father who 697 00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:50,359 Speaker 1: is a convicted felon that is done time in jail. 698 00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,719 Speaker 1: They felt as though that this was the time to strike, apparently, 699 00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:58,799 Speaker 1: and boy, when they struck, it led to the end 700 00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:03,080 Speaker 1: of not just a that was self made, but it 701 00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:07,120 Speaker 1: brought an end to what could potentially have been a 702 00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:10,600 Speaker 1: father child relationship that is no more. 703 00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:14,759 Speaker 2: Joe, as you and I are doing this show today 704 00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:18,560 Speaker 2: and we've been watching the Jeffrey Spence trial, we just 705 00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:20,920 Speaker 2: found out, you know, Jeffrey Spence is on trial for 706 00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:24,239 Speaker 2: the murder of Kirby Carpenter, his daughter Kaitlin, and his wife, 707 00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:28,920 Speaker 2: all cutting deals to testify against Jeffrey. Well, there's a 708 00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:34,760 Speaker 2: mistrial now. The jurors could not reach a unanimous verdict 709 00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:39,680 Speaker 2: in the capital murder trial of Jeffrey Spence, accused of 710 00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:44,239 Speaker 2: murdering Kirby Carpenter. Joe, you're gonna have to just take 711 00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:45,799 Speaker 2: us home on that one, and we'll come back and 712 00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:49,240 Speaker 2: revisit this one later when he goes back to trial 713 00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:49,799 Speaker 2: next year. 714 00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:55,600 Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybugs.