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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, where we

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Speaker 1: discussed all things mental health, personal development, and all the

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Speaker 1: small decisions we can make to become the best possible

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Speaker 1: versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy Harden Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. To get more information

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Speaker 1: and resources, visit the website at Therapy for Black Girls

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Speaker 1: dot com. And while I hope you love listening to

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Speaker 1: and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to

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Speaker 1: be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental

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Speaker 1: health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me

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Speaker 1: for session thirty five of the Therapy for Black Girls podcasts.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever been told that you're codependent? Or have

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Speaker 1: you ever wondered if you were? Do you even know

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Speaker 1: what the term codependency means? I think codependency is one

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Speaker 1: of those terms that's often thrown around without people really

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Speaker 1: understanding what it means. So for today's episode, I wanted

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Speaker 1: to chat with someone who could help us unpack this

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Speaker 1: term a bit. Today I am joined by Nedra Glover Tauab.

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Speaker 1: Nedra is a licensed clinical social worker who operates Kaleidoscope

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Speaker 1: Counseling in Charlotte, North Carolina. She helps people learn how

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Speaker 1: to be in healthy relationships with themselves and others. Nedra

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Speaker 1: is the creator of the Empowered Planner for people who

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Speaker 1: desire to be reflective, intentional, and productive. Nedra is passionate

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Speaker 1: about teaching people to rewrite their narrative and create the

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Speaker 1: life they want. Nedra and I chatted about the definition

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Speaker 1: of codependency, how to know if the definition fits you,

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Speaker 1: how some one becomes co dependent, and strategies you can

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Speaker 1: use to become less codependent. I definitely learned a lot

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Speaker 1: from her and hope that you will too. Here's our conversation. So,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us today, Nandra, Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much. So I'm happy for you to be

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Speaker 1: with us today to talk about something that I think

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Speaker 1: is often thrown around but that people don't often really

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Speaker 1: know what it means. Um, So you are joining us

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Speaker 1: today to talk about codependency. So can you give us

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Speaker 1: a definition of what codependency is? Yes, I think that

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Speaker 1: codependency is a lot of times used to describe people

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Speaker 1: in an a or a but it also applies to

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Speaker 1: folks who are in unhealthy relationships at the expense of themselves,

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Speaker 1: in any sort of scenario. It doesn't have to just

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Speaker 1: be addiction or UM some traumatic behaviors. I like to

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Speaker 1: think of it also in a context of just having

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Speaker 1: attachment tendencies that are not healthy for you. So what

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Speaker 1: does this really look like? Like? How do you know

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Speaker 1: if I've a you are codependent or if you're in

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Speaker 1: a codependent relationship? I think lots of times, you know,

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Speaker 1: clinically we have seen that as dependent personality disorder. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: we see it in folks who may be diagnosed as borderline.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes we see it in marriages and family relationships, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes in relationships with people with their with themselves or

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Speaker 1: their friendships. I think lots of times codependency looks like

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Speaker 1: UM people who don't have healthy boundaries and relationships, and

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Speaker 1: you'll hear them say things like people walk all over me,

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Speaker 1: nobody listens to me, I date the same person UM.

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Speaker 1: Some of those things, to me are indicators that there

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Speaker 1: may be some codependency going on in your relationships. So

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Speaker 1: are there things that you found that UM might make

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Speaker 1: it more likely that you would end up in a

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Speaker 1: codependent relationship? Yes. I think sometimes people have a history

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Speaker 1: of whether it's from their family of origin or whether

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Speaker 1: it's from previous relationships. They have a history of being

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Speaker 1: a certain type of person in their relationships with people.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes we can see this when we have parents who

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Speaker 1: may nurture us to be a certain sort of person,

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Speaker 1: and so you don't have the opportunity to develop boundaries

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Speaker 1: and a very clear identity. And so once you get

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Speaker 1: into a relationship with another person, you take all of

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Speaker 1: the characteristics of that person and never really have that

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Speaker 1: clear sense of self. And so whatever they're into, you're into.

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Speaker 1: Whatever their issues are, they become your issues. And so

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Speaker 1: a lot of times we think that, oh, I just

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Speaker 1: like these things, but it's really based on you not

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Speaker 1: having a clear understanding of who you are and where

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Speaker 1: you come from. Now, this is why I love doing

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Speaker 1: these interviews because I find myself always learning something new.

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Speaker 1: So I did not know that that could be like

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Speaker 1: a amteristic of code dependency like this um And you

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Speaker 1: sometimes hear people joke about it, right, like they have

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Speaker 1: this friend who is always into something new depending on

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Speaker 1: who they're dating. Yes, yes, I think that's a common

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Speaker 1: phenomenon with it that our friend gets into you know,

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Speaker 1: they get into this relationship and they become, you know,

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Speaker 1: a sports enthusiasts, or they become oh my god, she

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Speaker 1: really likes this band. I'm really into this band now,

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Speaker 1: or you know, your friend gets into a relationship you

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Speaker 1: don't hear from the friends, you know. I think that

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Speaker 1: also is an indicator of something greater going on, because

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Speaker 1: you should be able to maintain your sense of self

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Speaker 1: even in your relationship got you. So, is this always

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Speaker 1: a bad thing? I mean, you know, we often hear

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Speaker 1: um and of course in the field we talk about

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Speaker 1: like the need for support and to have a support system,

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Speaker 1: and you know it's to really kind of have close

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Speaker 1: relationships with other people. Um. So, is codependency always a

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Speaker 1: bad Not necessarily? I think that, you know, some relationships

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Speaker 1: can have codependent elements and not necessarily be codependent. For example,

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Speaker 1: if someone's in a relationship, Let's say a woman is

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Speaker 1: in a relationship with a mail and that woman doesn't

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Speaker 1: drive and he takes her everywhere, but for them it's

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Speaker 1: a mutual agreement. It's beneficial for both of them. Who

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Speaker 1: likes to drive her and she likes to receive that

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Speaker 1: nurturing in that way, I wouldn't necessarily describe that as codependent.

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Speaker 1: But if it is a hindrance to you if you're

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Speaker 1: not able to go to work at a certain time

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Speaker 1: because you have to drop this person off, or if

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Speaker 1: it is problematic for you and you have, you know,

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Speaker 1: these concerns around being having to do this in your relationship,

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Speaker 1: then I think it could be problematic. But certainly there

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Speaker 1: are some elements in relationships that you know could be

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Speaker 1: described as codependent, but it's not necessarily an issue for

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Speaker 1: you or for your relationship. So it sounds like there

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Speaker 1: is an important, um, kind of distinction to make here,

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Speaker 1: And you can correct me if I'm wrong, because maybe

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Speaker 1: I am just thinking about it differently. Um, So you

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Speaker 1: can kind of yourself have characteristics of somebody who may

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Speaker 1: be codependent, but you could also end up in a

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Speaker 1: codependent relationship. Like those things are separate? Are you saying

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Speaker 1: if if to code, dependents can end up in a

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Speaker 1: relationship with each other. No, I'm saying, um, like, you

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Speaker 1: may not necessarily be someone who would describe yourself as codependent,

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Speaker 1: but then you end up in a codependent relationship like

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Speaker 1: cou Could those things be separate? Absolutely? I think sometimes

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Speaker 1: you know, we don't know what we're capable of until

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Speaker 1: we get into certain relationships, and you'll sometimes hear people

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Speaker 1: say I've never done X, Y and Z until I

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Speaker 1: was with this person. I think that is because there

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Speaker 1: are our relationships that bring the element of ourselves out

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Speaker 1: that we didn't know existed until maybe this person trigger

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Speaker 1: or something from back back back in our closet that

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Speaker 1: we had no clue with still there, and so we

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Speaker 1: we be we become this person that is uncharacteristic of

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Speaker 1: us that we need to work through for whatever reason.

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Speaker 1: You know, you a lot of times you'll have folks say, oh,

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Speaker 1: my gosh, I've dated people before and I've never really

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Speaker 1: had any relationships, but it's something about this guy, you know,

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Speaker 1: And I always wonder, what is it exactly about that guy,

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Speaker 1: because if he's not um like anyone else that you've dated,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's triggering something. He's triggering something from your past,

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Speaker 1: something that's familiar, and that's a part of the work

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Speaker 1: that we have to work through. You know, what is

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Speaker 1: it that he's bringing out that you know probably need

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Speaker 1: to be brought out so you can address it. So

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Speaker 1: can you give me some examples of like some of

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Speaker 1: the things that are triggered, because I always think that's

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Speaker 1: really interesting right, Like, I believe that sometimes we do

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Speaker 1: get into relationships to try to heal some part of

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Speaker 1: us that has not been healed, and so certain partners

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Speaker 1: kind of triggered that for us. UM, can you talk

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Speaker 1: about like maybe some specific examples of like triggers that

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Speaker 1: you've seen in your work. I think sometimes you know,

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Speaker 1: triggers could be you dating a certain type of meal

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Speaker 1: based on your belief system. You know, sometimes we have

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Speaker 1: this these beliefs around who people are. So for example,

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Speaker 1: if I say, you know, all me and cheap, then

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Speaker 1: I date all me and that cheat and then I say,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I get these relationships and I have

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Speaker 1: to do all of this stuff to keep men faithful

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Speaker 1: when really that's your issue. And because it's your issue,

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Speaker 1: you have to find people who also have that issue

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Speaker 1: so you can work through that that part of yourself

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Speaker 1: that that needs to work on that same you and

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Speaker 1: you often UM. I've also heard about things like UM

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Speaker 1: like codependence anonymous, right, Like, so do those groups still

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Speaker 1: exists and do you know like what kinds of things

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Speaker 1: maybe what happen in those groups? Those groups exists, but

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Speaker 1: their food feel and far between. You know what you

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Speaker 1: hear more about is Alanin and alan I has a

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Speaker 1: lot of those same principles in terms of helping you

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Speaker 1: to set boundaries, helping you to form how healthy attachments,

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Speaker 1: helping you to kind of figure out how these dependency

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Speaker 1: issues started, helping you to develop some sense of assertive communication,

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Speaker 1: because I think a lot of times that's how you

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Speaker 1: get out of the codependency is to begin to look

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Speaker 1: at what you're doing, evaluate the impact it's having on

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Speaker 1: your life, and and maybe start to implement some new

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Speaker 1: strategies so that you can maybe be in that relationship

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Speaker 1: but just in a different way, and just be in

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Speaker 1: relationships generally in a different way. What I have found though,

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Speaker 1: that is really interesting is that people if they're doing

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Speaker 1: it in one relationship, they're probably doing it in other

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Speaker 1: relationships and they have any then notice until they get

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Speaker 1: into you know, the one friendship or the one dating

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Speaker 1: relationship that really highlights this thing, and they start to see,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I have this issue with this person.

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Speaker 1: But once we start to get into it, it's it's

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Speaker 1: a common thread throughout your relationships with people, because we're

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Speaker 1: always ourselves and all of our relationships and so a

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Speaker 1: lot of those things are present. Um in any sort

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Speaker 1: of relationship that we have, but it may me magnify

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Speaker 1: in one relationship over the other that sounds really fascinating

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Speaker 1: that're like, um, And I guess that question or your

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Speaker 1: response made me think about at what point would someone

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Speaker 1: then come into therapy with you, Like do you feel

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Speaker 1: like there is some incident that kind of happens where

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Speaker 1: people feel like, Okay, I probably need to talk to

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Speaker 1: somebody about that. I think people get to a breaking point.

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Speaker 1: I think after you've had a history of being in

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Speaker 1: relationship with people who walk all over you or nobody

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Speaker 1: listens to me, and you have like this pattern that

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Speaker 1: you're starting to see, or you know, maybe you're in

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Speaker 1: a dating relationship and you know, you just you just

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Speaker 1: feel like maybe you're not getting what you need from

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Speaker 1: that person. I think you get to a point where

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Speaker 1: you say, Okay, maybe maybe something is going on because

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Speaker 1: this seems like a common thing, where it seems like

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Speaker 1: a new thing that I don't want to continue to occur,

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Speaker 1: So how do I begin to address it? So lots

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Speaker 1: of times I think people come to counseling definitely around

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Speaker 1: a crisis. So when they've had, you know, a huge

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Speaker 1: blow up in a relationship when a friendship or you know,

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Speaker 1: relationships that work seemed especially troubling. They're like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: you need to go and talk to someone, and when

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Speaker 1: they come in, you know, we start to dissact. Not

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Speaker 1: only that relationship, but how you function in other relationships

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Speaker 1: Where where's your assertiveness and other relationships where your boundaries

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Speaker 1: and in other relationships. And we talk a lot about,

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Speaker 1: you know, how it's healthy I have boundaries. How you

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Speaker 1: know other people have boundaries. You have boundaries, and how

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Speaker 1: we so easily, you know, respect the boundaries of other people,

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Speaker 1: but we have such a hard time setting them for

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Speaker 1: ourselves with people. And something else you mentioned Nandra was

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Speaker 1: the need for like assertive communication. And I think often

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Speaker 1: when I am working with women, um, there will be

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Speaker 1: these things that come up around not wanting to be

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Speaker 1: mean or um really having this need to be nice.

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Speaker 1: So how do you work with that with your clients

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Speaker 1: because I would imagine that kind of thing comes up often. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, one of the main reasons that

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Speaker 1: people tend to be passive is that they don't want

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Speaker 1: to be mean. They don't want to be seen as

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Speaker 1: a bad guy. We want to engage in some level

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Speaker 1: of people pleasing, because we believe that to be in

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Speaker 1: relationships that we have to please those people in relationship

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Speaker 1: hips with and I related to you know, other people

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Speaker 1: have boundaries. If you can think of all the people

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Speaker 1: you know, lots of them have boundaries and we so

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Speaker 1: easily respect their boundaries. So what is the issue with

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Speaker 1: us having those boundaries? It's not mean to have boundaries.

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Speaker 1: It's not you know, mean for your grandmother to say,

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Speaker 1: you know, hey, when you come in the house, take

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Speaker 1: your shoes off. She wants to keep her house clean.

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Speaker 1: And we don't think about it that way until somebody

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Speaker 1: points out and say, oh, yeah, she does have a

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Speaker 1: boundary and you can have some too. What are your boundaries?

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Speaker 1: So what are some ways that you can begin to

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Speaker 1: help people set some of those boundaries. I think the

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Speaker 1: first thing is to help people identify what they would

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Speaker 1: describe a healthy relationship as what is your what is

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Speaker 1: a relationship with yourself look like? And what does a

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Speaker 1: healthy relationship with someone else looked like, and helping them

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Speaker 1: to implement those strategies or those ideas into their relation relationship. So,

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Speaker 1: if you want to be in a healthy relationship and

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Speaker 1: you want people to be able to respect you, and

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Speaker 1: you want to be able to be authentic with people.

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Speaker 1: That will require some level of assertiveness. You know you're

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Speaker 1: gonna have to if you want to be authentic, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna have to say to people, this is what I

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Speaker 1: would like No, I would not like this. Those things

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Speaker 1: aren't me. Those things are just being firm or you know,

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Speaker 1: being present in who you are and not just saying okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: I'll go along with it. We all have an identity

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Speaker 1: and it's okay to show it. So I think helping

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Speaker 1: people to set boundaries and to have expectations of people

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Speaker 1: and to express their needs to people is a large

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Speaker 1: part of what I hope from with And do you

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Speaker 1: find that that's something that people kind of tend to

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Speaker 1: take to pretty easily or are their struggles with um

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Speaker 1: learning how to set healthier boundaries for themselves. I believe

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Speaker 1: initially there's a struggle because what happens when we set

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Speaker 1: healthy boundaries lots of times the people around us they

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Speaker 1: don't like it because we have been a pushover or

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Speaker 1: pass it for so long. And now you're deciding which

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Speaker 1: movies you want to go see, You're deciding what food

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Speaker 1: you want to eat, whether or not you want to

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Speaker 1: go to someone's birthday party. You know, those things are

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Speaker 1: all very difficult things to accept from a person who

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Speaker 1: has been a certain way for so long. So in

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Speaker 1: any relationship with your mom, with other family members, in

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Speaker 1: dating relationships, all of a sudden, having clear ideas about

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Speaker 1: what you want that can be challenging. And so for

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Speaker 1: many people they may be okay starting to initiate, but

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Speaker 1: the folks around them, you know, are definitely discouraging because

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Speaker 1: you know there is some buying for you, you know,

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Speaker 1: staying the way that you are right. And so I

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Speaker 1: wonder if that then leads to them, you know, I

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Speaker 1: would think maybe like a stall and treatment. If they

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Speaker 1: are starting to like lose friends or if it's causing

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Speaker 1: like a lot of chaos in their life, there may

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Speaker 1: be more resistance to actually kind of continuing with that

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Speaker 1: boundary setting. Well, we talk a lot about being assertive

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Speaker 1: and not aggressive, and I think lots of times where

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Speaker 1: you start to lose friends and when you start to

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Speaker 1: see a lot of disruption, I assess whether you're being

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Speaker 1: aggressive with it, because what tends to happen is if

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Speaker 1: you haven't had any boundaries and now You're like, I'm empowered.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna have all of my boundaries today. Lay your mom.

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Speaker 1: You lay them all that day and everybody has been

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Speaker 1: read their rights. It's like, what did you just do? That?

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Speaker 1: That has gone too far? But what we can do

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Speaker 1: is baby steps. You know, you start with the small thing.

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Speaker 1: So if your friend says to you, hey, do you

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Speaker 1: want to go to a concert and you know that

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Speaker 1: you don't like trap music, that's an excellent time for

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Speaker 1: you to assert yourself and say no, thank you. You

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Speaker 1: don't go back five years and say, you know every

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Speaker 1: time you've invited me to you know, those are the

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Speaker 1: steps that we're taking. We're taking baby steps and we're

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Speaker 1: just implementing things as they go. God, so can you

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Speaker 1: give us more information about the distinction between assertiveness versus aggressiveness.

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Speaker 1: So assertiveness is respectfully clearly stating what you want. Aggressiveness

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Speaker 1: is being pushy with your agenda. So when I think

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Speaker 1: about it, I think about, you know, how we say it?

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Speaker 1: You know, have we expressed our motion behind that? So

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Speaker 1: for example, if I don't want to go to a

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Speaker 1: concert with you, how do I say that? You know,

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Speaker 1: I think a respectful way to say that is to say,

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Speaker 1: you know, thank you for the invite, I'm not gonna go.

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Speaker 1: But if you say to someone you know, I don't

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Speaker 1: like trap music, I'm not going to that concert, I

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Speaker 1: think that's a little aggressive and I think that it

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Speaker 1: invites a confrontation. It's very easy to confuse the two

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Speaker 1: because I think that we think we're being aggressive, that

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Speaker 1: we are getting our point across, But how are we

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Speaker 1: getting across? What are we really trying to elicit from

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Speaker 1: getting our point across in a pushy way, Because ultimately,

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Speaker 1: we want to be accepted by people. So if you

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Speaker 1: want people to accept this new you, you're gonna have

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Speaker 1: to do it in a way that is respectful. We

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Speaker 1: don't want you to lose friends. We don't want you

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Speaker 1: to in relationships. The goal is for you to use

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Speaker 1: your voice, but use it in a respectful way. And

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Speaker 1: I wonder if there is some intersection there between um

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Speaker 1: like this more aggressive kind of behavior and the stereotype

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Speaker 1: around the angry black woman. You know, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if there's an intersection there necessarily, but I definitely think

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Speaker 1: that when I think of the angry black woman, I

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Speaker 1: think of someone in Maybe there's an intersection. I think

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Speaker 1: of someone who who's fed up and they get to

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Speaker 1: that point where now they have to react to everything,

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Speaker 1: and their reaction is so over the top that it

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Speaker 1: does become this aggressive thing, and sometimes inappropriately so in

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Speaker 1: this place. Sometimes that anger is not even for this situation,

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Speaker 1: it's for another situation that they didn't address. So I

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Speaker 1: think we have to be very conscious of being present

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Speaker 1: in moments with people and not necessarily allowing interactions to

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Speaker 1: pass us by and not respond to those, but responding

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Speaker 1: to folks in the moment. We don't want to be

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Speaker 1: passive aggressive and say you know, yes, I'll do it,

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Speaker 1: and then go and tell you know, everyone else I

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Speaker 1: didn't want to go with her anyway. Once you've done

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Speaker 1: that ten times, you know, the ten time you'll say

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Speaker 1: I don't want to do it, you know, it becomes

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Speaker 1: this big thing. So it's okay to say, hey, you

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Speaker 1: know that doesn't work for me. I don't want to

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Speaker 1: do it right the first time it's X or you know,

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Speaker 1: if you can't do it the first time, you certainly

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Speaker 1: can do it the second. Yeah. And so this, you know,

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Speaker 1: really feels like the whole versation around, like no is

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Speaker 1: a complete sentence and you know, like really being okay

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Speaker 1: with saying no. Can you maybe talk a little bit

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Speaker 1: more about that about how, UM, like, why we have

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Speaker 1: such trouble saying no to people? You know, it goes

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Speaker 1: back to people pleasing. We feel like we should say

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Speaker 1: yes to most things because people will like us, people

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Speaker 1: want to be around us. We're now the fun person.

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Speaker 1: We don't want to say no. I don't want to

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Speaker 1: grab drinks afterward because I want to go home and

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Speaker 1: watch TV. You know, we don't feel like that's a

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Speaker 1: valid reason. So we have to say yes. We have

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Speaker 1: to say yes to people because we want them in

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Speaker 1: our lives. But saying no, it's a healthy thing for you.

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Speaker 1: And I think about it this way. You know, other

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Speaker 1: people say no. You've been told no before and you've survived,

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Speaker 1: So I think it's very likely that this person would

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Speaker 1: be fine with the no. Maybe not all the time,

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Speaker 1: but sometimes there are certainly people that you can and

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Speaker 1: say no in certain instances. You can say no when

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Speaker 1: So if someone is listening to our interview and realize is,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I think I have been codependent in relationships. Um,

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Speaker 1: what are some things that you would suggest that they

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Speaker 1: might be able to do to start kind of maybe

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Speaker 1: behaving differently in their relationships. I would think about your

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Speaker 1: boundaries and your relationships, So what are your boundaries and

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Speaker 1: if you can't come back with any, we have a

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Speaker 1: problem because we have boundaries in all our relationships. I

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Speaker 1: know one of my my boundaries that I like to

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Speaker 1: utilize is turning my phone off at a p M

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Speaker 1: I put on or do not disturb because I have

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Speaker 1: to have some time to relax, to sort of regroup.

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Speaker 1: Do you have any boundaries? That's the first thing I

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Speaker 1: would have sas. The second thing I would says is

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Speaker 1: how do you feel about the relationships that you're in

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Speaker 1: with people? Do you feel like they are mutual relationships?

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Speaker 1: Lots of times if you're doing more in the relationship,

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Speaker 1: you start to feel reasonble. You start to feel this

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Speaker 1: sort of attitude that you're always doing for things for people,

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Speaker 1: or that you have to do things for people, when

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Speaker 1: really that's not a healthy relationship. Healthy relationships are one

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Speaker 1: where you can support people and people can support you.

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Speaker 1: So if you're finding yourself on one side of relationships,

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Speaker 1: I would definitely consider getting some counseling or some treatment

402
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Speaker 1: around being in a codependent relationship and do you have

403
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Speaker 1: any resources you could suggest for somebody who might be

404
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 1: struggling with this issue. Yes. Um, my favorite book is

405
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Speaker 1: Codependent No More Class. That is a classic, right, um,

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Speaker 1: I think for most codependence it's a wonderful book. I

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Speaker 1: will give a caveat that it tends to focus heavily

408
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Speaker 1: on substance abuse and addiction. However they're talking they talk

409
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Speaker 1: about codependency being applied to other things as well, But

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Speaker 1: it is a great book just going over what is codependency,

411
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Speaker 1: what does it look like, and how to work through it.

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Speaker 1: Another book that I frequently suggest is Boundaries Where You

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Speaker 1: End and I Begin. My book is so tattered. I've

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Speaker 1: probably read that book about ten times and the short read,

415
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Speaker 1: but it's a great read just to check in and

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Speaker 1: make sure that you're in a healthy relationship emotionally and physically,

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Speaker 1: because sometimes we don't think about um boundary violations just

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Speaker 1: in the context of being emotional, being physical, being sexual,

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Speaker 1: and what those things actually look like. So the Boundaries

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Speaker 1: Where You and and I begin as a great book

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Speaker 1: to kind of highlight how to set boundaries and what

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Speaker 1: do those look like, what are acceptable boundaries? And last,

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Speaker 1: I think a really good book is Attached, and it

424
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Speaker 1: talks a lot about dating and attachment. It talks about

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Speaker 1: anxious attachment style, avoidant attachment, toile and the secure attachment style.

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Speaker 1: And that book gives you a depiction of what it

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Speaker 1: looks like to be in a relationship where people may

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Speaker 1: may have some codependency things, and how to still be

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Speaker 1: in a relationship with those folks and figure out a

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Speaker 1: way to mutually meet each other need. So this goes

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Speaker 1: back to, you know, can we be in relationships that

432
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Speaker 1: are codependent? And sometimes we can, you know, and there

433
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 1: are are ways to do that depending on the level

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00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: of codependency. And so Attached speaks really really well to

435
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 1: being able to be in relationships with people who may

436
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 1: have some codependency. So you brought up an interesting point

437
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 1: as you were describing that book around um, you may

438
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 1: be able to continue in a relationship with somebody depending

439
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 1: on the level of codependency. At what level would you say,

440
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 1: um would not being okay things to kind of continue

441
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 1: in the relationship. I think when it becomes an extreme

442
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: situation of enabling, when you are disabling people to a

443
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 1: point where they are no longer able to care for themselves.

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00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 1: We want people to be able to not necessarily function independently,

445
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,439
Speaker 1: but definitely we all need assistance. We want to be

446
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: able to assist them, but we don't want it to

447
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,680
Speaker 1: be dependent on what we do for them, unless there's

448
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 1: an extreme situation where someone is sick. But I think

449
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 1: lots of times when you need to terminate a relationship

450
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:37,880
Speaker 1: is when you have no fight left for yourself. We

451
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: sometimes in relationships lose our sense of self care, our

452
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,719
Speaker 1: sense of self worth because we are so emotionally and

453
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 1: physically involved in these relationships with unhealthy people that we

454
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: are unable to have any time or any energy for ourselves,

455
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 1: and that does not make for a healthy relationship. Got you?

456
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 1: That sounds like a great description, So neither. Can you

457
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: tell us more about your practice and anything exciting you

458
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 1: have going on? Yes, So I have a group counseling

459
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: practice in Charlotte, and I am I see you know

460
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,159
Speaker 1: a load of clients. And then we have other therapists

461
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 1: here who treat folks with the perspective of the n BR.

462
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: We have yoga therapy, be goot Man E F T CBT.

463
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 1: We do a lot of mindfulness here. Also a new

464
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 1: venture for me is planning. So I have created a

465
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 1: planner called the Empowered Planner, and the focus of the

466
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 1: planner is just to encourage folks to be mindful and

467
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:47,120
Speaker 1: to engage in self care rituals. So, for example, UM,

468
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,640
Speaker 1: just daily, I have an opportunity for you to check in,

469
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 1: for you to talk about what you're grateful for, you,

470
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 1: for you to talk about what you're feeling. I wanted

471
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: to incorporate the ability need for you to journal but

472
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,919
Speaker 1: not journal, because I know for a lot of people

473
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 1: is really challenging to commit to journaling, but you really

474
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 1: like the idea of journaling. So being able to just

475
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 1: in one sense and say this is how I feel,

476
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 1: you know, this is what I'm grateful for, These are

477
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,880
Speaker 1: my goals for myself, these are my growth goals for work,

478
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 1: these are my goals from home. But making sure that

479
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 1: those self care goals are important and that the emphasis

480
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: is around the self care goals and also being able

481
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 1: to plan those other things in life. So, UM, I

482
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: think the planner was definitely created to encourage people to

483
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: mindfully planned because I think so many times we're writing

484
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: stuff down, we're doing stuff, and we're not the center

485
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: of those things. Why are these things really important to us?

486
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: How do I check in with myself? So I wanted

487
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: to create a space for us to be able to

488
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 1: to do all of that and to be able to

489
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: be productive while doing it. That sounds wonderful. And where

490
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: can people find out more about you, Nidra? And is

491
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: the planner available like on your website? The planner is

492
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: available on my website. And my website is Kaleidoscope Counseling

493
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: p l LC dot com. And I am on Instagram

494
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 1: and you can follow me at Kalidoscope Counseling. And the

495
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 1: planner can be purchased on our website or it can

496
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 1: be um there's a link in our Instagram where you

497
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: can click and be directed to purchase the planner. Sounds

498
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: good and all of that information will be included in

499
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: the show notes so that people can easily find it. Well.

500
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us to Dan Nider.

501
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. Thank you so much, Dr Joey.

502
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 1: It was a pleasure being on your show. I'm so

503
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: thankful that Nidra was able to join us for this

504
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 1: episode to share her wealth of information. Please make sure

505
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: to check out some of the books she mentioned, as

506
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 1: well as her empowered planner. You can find links to

507
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: all of this informa and in the show notes. You

508
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 1: can find those at Therapy for Black Girls dot com

509
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 1: slash Session thirty five. If you'd like to continue digging

510
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: into this conversation, come on over and join us in

511
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: the thrive tribe, which is the Facebook group for the show.

512
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 1: You can find that at Therapy for Black Girls dot

513
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 1: com slash tribe. If you're thinking that it's time for

514
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 1: you to start talking to a therapist to help you

515
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 1: work through any issues you might be struggling with or

516
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: to help you become the best possible version of yourself,

517
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 1: make sure to check out the directory to find a

518
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: therapist in your area. You can find that at Therapy

519
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: for Black Girls dot com slash directory. I'd also like

520
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 1: to remind all the women in the Atlanta area that

521
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: I will be offering at least one new therapy group

522
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 1: beginning in January, So if you'd like to learn more

523
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 1: about the group or to sign up, head on over

524
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: to Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash Shift s

525
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: h I F T. Please continue sharing your thoughts about

526
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 1: the episodes with us online, and make sure you're using

527
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 1: the hashtag TBG in session so that we can all

528
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: follow along with the conversation. You also want to be

529
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,719
Speaker 1: sure that you're following us across all social media so

530
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 1: you don't miss any important announcements are helpful tips. You

531
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter at Therapy for the Number

532
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: four be Girls, and you can find us on Instagram

533
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: and Facebook at Therapy for Black Girls. And just so

534
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 1: you know, we have two more episodes after this one

535
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: left for this year. The last episode for this year

536
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: will be released on December twenty, and we'll be back

537
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: with the brand new episode for the new year on

538
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 1: January three. I'm looking forward to continuing this conversation with

539
00:31:45,600 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: you all real soon. Take good care, I Otter Potter,

540
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 1: I doctor oft I oftt