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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Today, we have friend of the show, Jack White,

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Speaker 1: back on the program, along with a very special visit

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Speaker 1: from one of my favorite artists of all time. If

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Speaker 1: you missed our last conversation with Jack, Brennan Benson and

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Speaker 1: the rest of the Rack and Tours, I highly recommend

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Speaker 1: going back to listen. This conversation, like the one before,

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Speaker 1: is full of fascinating ideas, asides in musical history that

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Speaker 1: lets you know just how deep a cat Jack White

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Speaker 1: really is. It's as if he's tapped into some sort

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Speaker 1: of endless creative energy and inspiration, and some of that

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Speaker 1: inspiration he tells Rick in this conversation is still emanating

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Speaker 1: from his youth. Jack also has a work ethic and

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Speaker 1: a business ethos Unlike most his labeled Third Man Records

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Speaker 1: has a rich roster of artists, with three retail stores

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Speaker 1: in Detroit, Nashville, and London. They also own one of

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Speaker 1: the few fully operational vinyl pressing plants in the US,

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Speaker 1: which has been working overtime lately to keep up with

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Speaker 1: the surging demand for vinyl. Jack also released two full

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Speaker 1: length albums this year that perfectly document his present creative life,

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Speaker 1: and he's on a worldwide tour promoting those records. After

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Speaker 1: a recent two nights stand in La, Jack stopped by

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Speaker 1: Shangar Law to speak with Rick Rubin about the early

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Speaker 1: garage rock scene in Detroit that helped shape him, what

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Speaker 1: makes the Seven Nation Army Guitar Riff one of the

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Speaker 1: greatest earworms of all time? And then Jack treats Rick

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Speaker 1: and a legendary surprise guest to an acoustic performance of

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Speaker 1: his new song A Tip from You to Me, And

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Speaker 1: to cap it all off, we'll hear exclusive details about

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Speaker 1: an exciting new project Rick's been working on that'll be

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Speaker 1: out soon. This is broken record liner notes for the

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Speaker 1: Digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. Here's Rick Rubin and Jack

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Speaker 1: White from Shangar La. Are you on the road now? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: We just did uh these last two nights we played

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Speaker 1: in town and then uh day off today. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: so you said, hey, so it would be a good

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Speaker 1: time because I've been wanting to having excuse to come

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Speaker 1: out here again. And what's the current band situation? So

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Speaker 1: three guys with me drums, bass and keys, and guys

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Speaker 1: who've played with before. Yes, Dominic Davis who's on bass,

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Speaker 1: and we've been playing together since we're like thirteen, we

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Speaker 1: go way back to Detroit and Dary Jones on drums

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Speaker 1: and who's probably I think, really think the most unique

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Speaker 1: drummer around today really, and then Quincy McCrary plays keys

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Speaker 1: and sings harmonies too. I debated going on as a

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Speaker 1: three piece. I always wanted to do that, and I

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Speaker 1: got to try that out on when we did Saturday

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Speaker 1: Night Live year and a half ago or whatever it was.

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Speaker 1: It um that was a good moment because we weren't

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Speaker 1: pushing anything or anything. So we did that, and I felt, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: that would be nice tour as a trio. But but

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Speaker 1: then there's a whole like bank of like forty songs

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Speaker 1: that have keyboards that we wouldn't really be able to

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Speaker 1: perform and that we have to just kind of cross

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Speaker 1: that off. Those feels an obligation to have keyboards in

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Speaker 1: a keyboard song, though, do you basically do a three

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Speaker 1: piece band cover of Yes, I would love that. My

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Speaker 1: my worry was that, you know, I even worried about

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Speaker 1: that in the Noise Chris, which was breaking things up

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Speaker 1: and sometimes playing keys or synth on a song or

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Speaker 1: acoustic on the song. So it wasn't the same. You're

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Speaker 1: not hearing the same tones over and over and over again.

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Speaker 1: That's always my concern, and I don't want things to

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Speaker 1: sound whimpy either, you know. So sometimes I love an

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Speaker 1: acoustic track, but playing it live, you're in that room

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Speaker 1: and it's you just got done playing three very fast

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Speaker 1: rock and roll songs, and you feel like, I'm you

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Speaker 1: can't tell if you're losing them the audience, or or

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Speaker 1: if they're actually just if they're actually listening, paying attention

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Speaker 1: more or something, you know. So it's hard to know,

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Speaker 1: but I like that because it keeps me on edge

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Speaker 1: the whole time. Yeah, what's two relationship to rocking materials

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Speaker 1: versus non rocking material in general? Yeah, I sometimes think

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Speaker 1: that the things that I like more are not as

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Speaker 1: appealing to other people. Like, for example, a great example

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Speaker 1: is I really can would just like to be a drummer,

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Speaker 1: you know, but I know that my drumming is just

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Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't capture people and capture their attention

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Speaker 1: and make them go wow, wait a minute, you know,

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Speaker 1: or you know, or like, I play piano, but no

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Speaker 1: one considers me a piano player by any means. I

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Speaker 1: definitely wouldn't claim that either, but it for some reason.

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Speaker 1: When I play guitar, it connects with people and they

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Speaker 1: come back with feedback, and they give me feedback and

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Speaker 1: want to push me to keep doing that. Where that's

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Speaker 1: the one instrument for the I like that. The last

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Speaker 1: one I would pick was guitar, you know. I mean,

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Speaker 1: just like everybody plays guitar. It's been done a million times,

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Speaker 1: and how do you have your own voice and uniqueness

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Speaker 1: to it? And maybe because of my sort of carelessness

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Speaker 1: about that, maybe by accident there's some uniqueness ended up

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Speaker 1: happening because of me sort of thinking, oh whatever, I

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Speaker 1: guess interesting. It's like if you want to or if

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Speaker 1: you wrote a poem and you could read it out

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Speaker 1: loud and you maybe you could get a few people

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Speaker 1: to pay attention and get something out of it and

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Speaker 1: connect with some other people. If you put it to

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Speaker 1: melody and sing those words are reading, then all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden you get more people paying attention. Possibly, And

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Speaker 1: then if you put music behind it and then a

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Speaker 1: rhythm behind who knows, you could go to a billion

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Speaker 1: people could be interested in. I think that's kind of

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Speaker 1: the way I feel like, Okay, this is the window

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Speaker 1: to if I can tell the story to if I

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Speaker 1: need to use this instrument to do it. Okay, if

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Speaker 1: that's what you want, Okay, yeah, let's do that. Can

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Speaker 1: you imagine with your love of drums, could you imagine

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Speaker 1: playing drums for a band that already connected with people

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Speaker 1: on a different level where it wasn't on you to

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Speaker 1: be the connector, but you could just be the drummer.

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Speaker 1: It'd be great. It'd be great. Yeah. I played drums

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Speaker 1: in my band, The Dead Weather on the drummer in

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Speaker 1: that band, but it's a darker band. It's more esoteric

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Speaker 1: and darker. So it's not really we never intended to

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Speaker 1: have it at hoping it had a large popular reach

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Speaker 1: or anything like that. It sounds like a cynical hipster

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Speaker 1: thing to say, like an on purpose trying not to

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Speaker 1: you know whatever. But it really wasn't that way. I'm

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Speaker 1: saying that because I didn't wasn't expecting. Oh great, the

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Speaker 1: heat's off me. Yeah I can just drump, but um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'll be wonderful, you know, it would be wonderful to

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Speaker 1: be that. Tell me about your relationship to success in

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Speaker 1: terms of when you're writing, do you ever think who's

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Speaker 1: going to like this, or what's the right presentation to

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Speaker 1: make somebody respond. I early on, coming on the sort

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Speaker 1: of the de garage rock scene in Detroit, it was

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Speaker 1: a lot of people who were talented, who were keeping

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Speaker 1: themselves down on purpose or boxing themselves in a weird

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Speaker 1: way of not wanting to succeed in any way or

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Speaker 1: to grow in any bigger way. I always thought that's

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Speaker 1: a really strange thing. It's almost like a painter who

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Speaker 1: never puts his paintings up on the wall or puts

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Speaker 1: them in a gallery. I mean, if you're not sharing

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Speaker 1: with other people, I guess what's the point. You know,

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Speaker 1: you're just doing it. You're by yourself. Maybe you should

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Speaker 1: just stay at home or something that's just a hobbying.

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Speaker 1: But if you're going up on stage and you're putting

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Speaker 1: on a record with your name on it or whatever,

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Speaker 1: it feels like you're already in that world anyway, You're

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Speaker 1: already sharing with other people. I guess people always say

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Speaker 1: something like, doesn't it make you mad that they play

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Speaker 1: your seven Nation Army song at sports stadium? So why

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Speaker 1: would that make me mad? I mean, I think krik

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Speaker 1: Combing sort of brought a little bit more of that

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Speaker 1: to the to the surface of punk rock guilt. Where

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Speaker 1: you're he may have felt felt guilty about the attention

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Speaker 1: from what I hear or from it's always gathered about him,

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Speaker 1: And I felt like that was definitely as a vibe

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Speaker 1: in that sort of the hipster garage rock world that

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Speaker 1: we came out of, was that you're almost supposed to

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Speaker 1: be ashamed if something worked out. Well, it's odd and

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Speaker 1: add it's an odd way of thinking about it. I

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Speaker 1: think there's some belief and I do not. I do

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Speaker 1: not subscribe to this belief that if something successful, it

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Speaker 1: can't be good, right, And I don't think that's right.

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Speaker 1: I really don't think that's right. I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of the stuff that's successful I might not like. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but things do breakthrough that are amazing. Yeah, and those

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Speaker 1: are the revolutionary things. Yes. I mean there'll be times,

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Speaker 1: so there'll be a pop song where you might instantly

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Speaker 1: hear it and be cynical about it and say, oh God,

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Speaker 1: give me a break, you know, or a cliche or

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Speaker 1: it's a pretensists or something like that. And then what

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Speaker 1: what I'll do is I'll realize, you know, that's hard, man,

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Speaker 1: that's really hard. If you want to sit down and

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Speaker 1: write a hit, that's gonna be number one on the

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Speaker 1: charts or whatever, especially nowadays, that's no easy task, and

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Speaker 1: so then you have to give credit for that, Like, hey,

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Speaker 1: even if you don't like it, you gotta give someone credit.

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Speaker 1: They actually made it work. I figured it out. Even

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Speaker 1: if they wanted to do it every single time, they

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Speaker 1: couldn't do it. So you start thinking about that way,

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Speaker 1: and then maybe sometimes like time passes and you start realizing, wow,

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Speaker 1: that was really an important, beautiful thing that happened when

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Speaker 1: that song became pub even novelty songs, yes, Like I

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Speaker 1: think of songs in the eighties that I thought were

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Speaker 1: just you know, these novelty, goofy things that were on

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Speaker 1: the radio. Then now when I look back, I'm like, wow,

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Speaker 1: damn you know take on me by Aha, incredible. Wow.

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Speaker 1: Think about the structure of the melody of that vocal alone,

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Speaker 1: let alone the production of it. And if you would

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Speaker 1: ask me when I was whatever, ten, twelve, I've one whatever.

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Speaker 1: But now I have immense respect for certain things like that,

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Speaker 1: And it's it's funny that those things click with you

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Speaker 1: at times, but I guess it's part of the craft.

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Speaker 1: When you get yourself involved in the craft and you

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Speaker 1: care about it and you're open minded. Yeah, I feel

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Speaker 1: like maybe everyone has a choice psyche as they age,

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Speaker 1: you have a choice to go down this darker road

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Speaker 1: where you become more and more close minded and more

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Speaker 1: cynical and more hateful of anything that's different and and

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Speaker 1: and scarier or imposing or you you you stay down

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Speaker 1: this road where you get more and more open minded,

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Speaker 1: more and more enlightened as you go, because you want

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Speaker 1: to keep experiencing and you want to meet new people

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Speaker 1: and hear new things. It's almost enough some kind of

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Speaker 1: unconscious choice. Yeah. I used to think when I was younger, Hey,

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Speaker 1: you know some old timer musicians coming to town and

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Speaker 1: they're playing this club and we go see you and say, hey,

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Speaker 1: come and talk to us after the show, and they

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Speaker 1: wouldn't want to. And I was like, God, that would

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Speaker 1: be terrible. I wonder why they're so grumpy and grouchy.

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Speaker 1: Well now I can see you're grouchy. Well I can

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Speaker 1: see that. It's like there's been moments in my life

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Speaker 1: where I could definitely have gone down that road, Like

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Speaker 1: why I finished my show at getting a car and

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Speaker 1: go to the hotel and not talk to anybody. I

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Speaker 1: could see someone making that choice and why they would

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Speaker 1: make that choice. But you have to sort of shake

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Speaker 1: that off and like, yeah, but you miss so much

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Speaker 1: And in a way, it's like a giving up for

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Speaker 1: selfish you know, for selfishness. You know. Also it is

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Speaker 1: a grueling I imagine it's grueling on the road, just

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Speaker 1: like having to do it all the time. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: there's only so much energy, and you want the show

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Speaker 1: to be good every night, so it seems like everything

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Speaker 1: other than the show might suffer for the show to

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Speaker 1: be all but it could be. Yeah. When I see

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Speaker 1: acts that are sort of maybe doing the same set

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Speaker 1: every night and they have the pyrotechniques go off in

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Speaker 1: song three and all that, I get a little jealous

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Speaker 1: because I don't have a set list in my set.

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Speaker 1: So when I see that, I'm like, oh man, it

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Speaker 1: would be so easy, and it would be so now

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Speaker 1: you just go up there, or say someone who stands

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Speaker 1: still and sort of just can sing, like Willie Nelson

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Speaker 1: doesn't really need to do anything, and you didn't do

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Speaker 1: acrobatics or anything. That voice is it. He's got it.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't even probably require too much energy to push

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Speaker 1: it out of himself. And it's amazing every time you

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Speaker 1: know I don't have that. You know, I don't have

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Speaker 1: a singer's voice. I'm not a singer and I'm not

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Speaker 1: even that kind of the character vocalist of like a Wheelie.

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Speaker 1: I feel like to make something nice a Wednesday night

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Speaker 1: in Poughkeepsie and you want this show to be great

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Speaker 1: as it was, you know, Saturday night in New York City,

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Speaker 1: And well, what am I gonna do? And first you

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Speaker 1: have to care, you know, And there's another fork in

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Speaker 1: the road where you find these moments where like, wow,

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Speaker 1: you can see easily how quickly you'd want to give

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Speaker 1: up and just go stay in the tour buss. I

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Speaker 1: remember someone telling me that they were like, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: used to look at the shows like, you know, two

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Speaker 1: more songs and I get to go watch TV on

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Speaker 1: the tour bus and one more song and wow, get

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Speaker 1: out of here. I'm like, please, God, don't want that

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Speaker 1: happen to me. Yeah, you know that would be I

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Speaker 1: would just I know what I would do. I just

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Speaker 1: wouldn't do her any Yeah, and I can't imagine the

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Speaker 1: shows are very good. If that's the attitude of the performer,

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Speaker 1: campy I get, you know, or say, if what's popular

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Speaker 1: now Vegas residencies are popular now and I can get

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Speaker 1: the repeal of that, you know, like maybe there's artists

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Speaker 1: like they get paid already no matter who shows up,

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Speaker 1: it's the same dressing room every night. You get to

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Speaker 1: take a private jet home to LA every night if

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Speaker 1: you want to, or all these benefits and niceties and stuff.

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Speaker 1: So I could see all that, but then I think,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it would work for me. I

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Speaker 1: would feel like I gave up, like for my own

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Speaker 1: personal music. No judgment on that. Some people that makes

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Speaker 1: If you're Tom Jones, that's it, man, That's that's the

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Speaker 1: way to go for what he's doing it out. He's

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Speaker 1: he's got the pipes for that. And maybe it would

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Speaker 1: work for a Willy Nelson and in a way in

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Speaker 1: the write environment or something. But maybe for me, I

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Speaker 1: would think, a man, how would how could I do

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Speaker 1: that and not give up and make it a different

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Speaker 1: show every night and have energy to it? That would

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Speaker 1: almost be It's o unchallenging and sounds really fun, like

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Speaker 1: that could be fun. It could be interesting way to

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Speaker 1: do it. Have you ever seen Willie Live? Yes? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's incredible, it's great, It's incredible. Yeah, it's it's not

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Speaker 1: what I expected before, before I'd ever seen him. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I assumed it was going to be more like a

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Speaker 1: country concert, and it was more like a Ramons concert

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Speaker 1: other than the fact that he the songs that he's singing.

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Speaker 1: But yes, it was song on top of song to

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Speaker 1: a song onto a Yeah, it was relentless and then yeah,

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Speaker 1: they do this like you do, like a little build

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Speaker 1: up that you think would be like that. It's almost

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Speaker 1: like whimpy for a second and it's like no, no,

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Speaker 1: no, no no, no no, no time well scaring Ramon, don't

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Speaker 1: run drop and you're like, damn that that took. He

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Speaker 1: didn't even really he raised his voice, but all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden the energy went bammed like maybe with one

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Speaker 1: little snare hit. Yeah, and so much to learn from

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Speaker 1: that and him as a guitar player, so punk rock,

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Speaker 1: so punk. I mean that guy his guitar solos. If

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Speaker 1: you haven't listened to a Willie Nelson guitar solo, you know, anybody,

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Speaker 1: I always say, god man, just type in Willie Nelson

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Speaker 1: guitar solo on the Internet and listen to what he does.

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Speaker 1: You won't believe it at first, You'll wait what you know,

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Speaker 1: and it is so punk and so carefree and such

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Speaker 1: a rebellious thing that I just kind of can't believe

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Speaker 1: he got away with that, even even in the different

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Speaker 1: environments he's worked in all the time. It's like, damn,

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Speaker 1: that's a real rebellious, outsider way to attack the guitar.

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Speaker 1: And in the instrument he plays, the strange acoustic electric

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Speaker 1: hybrid deck has a matching amp built by like Worltzer

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Speaker 1: or something. I forget what company made it, but it's

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Speaker 1: a bizarre instrument that he shows that nobody else has

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Speaker 1: as well, So very unique. I wouldn't have thought to

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Speaker 1: ask us before, but you talked about a song that

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Speaker 1: plays in soccer stadiums. Have you ever tried to analyze

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Speaker 1: what it is about Seven Nation Army that has transcended

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Speaker 1: not only the rest of your work, but the rest

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Speaker 1: of any rock artist's work of you know, it's like

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Speaker 1: it's it's it has had a really unusual life, bizarre, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: anything that you've noticed, maybe from playing it live, anything

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Speaker 1: in you know, being a someone who studies music, you know,

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Speaker 1: we we we are passion has study music, we love

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Speaker 1: trying to understand why it does what it does. You

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Speaker 1: have any thoughts. I've heard lots of opinions about it

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Speaker 1: over the years, you know, some being really positive and

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Speaker 1: feeling it's groundbreaking. Other people trying to sort of like

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Speaker 1: take it away from me, or or I say I

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Speaker 1: copied something that are on the negative side, and other

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Speaker 1: people thinking that it's possibly you know, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what the word is, but you know, something like when

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Speaker 1: music is a related to a heartbeat, or that it's

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Speaker 1: it has an organicness to it that we that maybe

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Speaker 1: just got accidentally unearthed in that scenario. But I did

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Speaker 1: read an article once about why do we like music

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Speaker 1: at all? From a scientists point of view, and it was,

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Speaker 1: you know, really scientific and methodical, and it was an

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Speaker 1: interesting thing. The theory in this article was the brain

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Speaker 1: is trying to make patterns and make sense of patterns,

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Speaker 1: and that we find a thrill and when we can

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Speaker 1: complete the melody pattern in our head or guess what

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Speaker 1: it's going to be. You know, you can guess if

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Speaker 1: you go, I know the last two notes are going

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Speaker 1: to be you know, maybe that's a pleasantness to that.

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Speaker 1: And then when you don't do that, waiting so we

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Speaker 1: resolve it and then maybe that gets into like why

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Speaker 1: horror films are appealing to be like it shouldn't on

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Speaker 1: paper and be like, well, why would you want to

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Speaker 1: be scared? That doesn't make any sense, But we like it.

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Speaker 1: We find it a thrill and maybe that seven Nation

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Speaker 1: Army with the melodies. There seems to be two moments

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Speaker 1: in there if I were to analyze it, and I'm

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Speaker 1: just taking guys, I have no idea, but this is

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Speaker 1: you know that sounds like you're gonna go up like

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Speaker 1: or something like that, but you go up and then

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Speaker 1: you quickly change direction. No, no, no no, now I'm going

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Speaker 1: back down. That gets you to pay attention. Yeah, so wait,

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Speaker 1: what's how's it gonna resolve? Why did it change direction? Exactly?

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Speaker 1: Why did it change direction? So then you got and

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Speaker 1: then this next one is sort of why I think

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Speaker 1: is maybe like the horror movie thing. Then like whoa, okay,

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Speaker 1: I guess I agree to that. You know it's not

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Speaker 1: an actual full result, so like, yeah, I can, I can.

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Speaker 1: I can deal with that. Your brain can maybe say yeah,

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Speaker 1: I can do with it. I don't know, it's just

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Speaker 1: a y that maybe maybe those two little moments or

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Speaker 1: what is it? The riff? Would you say the song

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00:18:14,636 --> 00:18:17,996
Speaker 1: is the riff. Yes, yeah, okay. The funny thing was

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Speaker 1: that I was at the time. I remember saying, to

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Speaker 1: make this will be great. I want to The challenge

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Speaker 1: for me right now is I want to write a

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Speaker 1: song with no chorus and make it something people like

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Speaker 1: that doesn't have any chorus. So that was at that

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Speaker 1: moment the challenge in the studio. Very briefly, we didn't

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Speaker 1: We didn't spend much time on that song, you know,

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Speaker 1: and uh, but I remember that being like, oh, this

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Speaker 1: will be great. I won't write a chorus for this

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00:18:38,236 --> 00:18:40,996
Speaker 1: doesn't need one. We'll just keep hammering this and then

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Speaker 1: we'll play off the loud quietness of Maybe the grung

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Speaker 1: era can be part of that. And there's also slide

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Speaker 1: guitar and a two and it's also sort of like

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Speaker 1: a bass, but I'm not really playing bass. I'm playing

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Speaker 1: a D tune guitar. So there was like, yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: enough for the things that I think are interesting, so interesting?

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Speaker 1: Did you play guitar barely like punk rock? You know,

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Speaker 1: like rudimentary guitar who it plays guitar on like the

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Speaker 1: Beastie Boys of I know that the first album. That's okay,

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00:19:10,196 --> 00:19:11,836
Speaker 1: I didn't know that. I really I thought you were

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00:19:11,836 --> 00:19:15,116
Speaker 1: going to mention, say some studio guys and Gray, what

378
00:19:15,236 --> 00:19:19,836
Speaker 1: guitar did you use for that? I had an SG

379
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Speaker 1: Junior fifty six s G Junior nice and that was

380
00:19:24,836 --> 00:19:27,396
Speaker 1: that was my main guitar. And then I remember I

381
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Speaker 1: saw a Slayer and I was really impressed with Slayer

382
00:19:29,756 --> 00:19:33,836
Speaker 1: and um and I met them and carry King got

383
00:19:33,956 --> 00:19:38,156
Speaker 1: me a carry King guitar, like really like a real

384
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Speaker 1: metal guitar. Yeah, and I think I might have played

385
00:19:40,716 --> 00:19:44,356
Speaker 1: one solo on that. I can't I can't remember exactly,

386
00:19:44,436 --> 00:19:45,916
Speaker 1: but I remember I had that and then I ended

387
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Speaker 1: up sending the guitar back after using it on me

388
00:19:48,156 --> 00:19:51,276
Speaker 1: acause I didn't really like it, but just like, oh

389
00:19:51,316 --> 00:19:53,356
Speaker 1: this is fun for this kind of a thing. Yeah yeah,

390
00:19:53,396 --> 00:19:55,756
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, but why didn't add Rock play? Why did

391
00:19:55,796 --> 00:19:57,596
Speaker 1: you play guitar that? I don't really know? Yeah, I

392
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Speaker 1: don't really know. It wasn't also the concept of the

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Speaker 1: Beastie Boys as rappers, maybe they just did it had

394
00:20:04,836 --> 00:20:08,196
Speaker 1: no instrumentation. It wasn't supposed to be that because when

395
00:20:08,236 --> 00:20:10,396
Speaker 1: they played it was more like what the BC Boys

396
00:20:10,396 --> 00:20:12,636
Speaker 1: the band sounded like, and we were doing something really

397
00:20:12,636 --> 00:20:15,356
Speaker 1: different than that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I always had

398
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Speaker 1: a sneaking suspicion, Like when I was like eighteen or another.

399
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Speaker 1: He was like, I get the feeling after I heard

400
00:20:19,356 --> 00:20:22,516
Speaker 1: their punk records. I get the feeling like they did

401
00:20:22,516 --> 00:20:25,316
Speaker 1: this rap thing because they thought it was funny, yeah first,

402
00:20:25,356 --> 00:20:28,236
Speaker 1: and then it just actually worked, so they stuck with it,

403
00:20:28,756 --> 00:20:31,796
Speaker 1: and people really does. I think what happened, honestly for

404
00:20:31,836 --> 00:20:35,996
Speaker 1: all of us was we were all into punk rock, yeah,

405
00:20:36,036 --> 00:20:39,836
Speaker 1: and then hip hop happened, and it's like hip hop

406
00:20:39,996 --> 00:20:43,036
Speaker 1: really took over for punk rock for us in real

407
00:20:43,196 --> 00:20:46,196
Speaker 1: like as fans. Sure, yeah, so it just became more.

408
00:20:47,396 --> 00:20:50,276
Speaker 1: It seemed disingenuous to keep making punk rock when all

409
00:20:50,316 --> 00:20:52,636
Speaker 1: we did was listened to and love hip hop, right,

410
00:20:52,716 --> 00:20:56,116
Speaker 1: And that was the new thing, was the punk rock? Yeah,

411
00:20:56,156 --> 00:20:57,956
Speaker 1: And you know it was for me, it was heavy

412
00:20:57,956 --> 00:21:02,116
Speaker 1: metal before before, like I loved heavy metal music or

413
00:21:01,836 --> 00:21:04,356
Speaker 1: what I call heavy metal music, which is really rock

414
00:21:04,436 --> 00:21:09,476
Speaker 1: card rock music. You know. I liked AC DC and Aerosmith, Nugent,

415
00:21:09,636 --> 00:21:13,796
Speaker 1: those guys. Yeah, and then when I heard I guess

416
00:21:13,836 --> 00:21:17,316
Speaker 1: the Ramones and then the Sex Pistols and then the

417
00:21:17,436 --> 00:21:22,676
Speaker 1: Clash and then really Black Flag and the Germs, and

418
00:21:23,196 --> 00:21:26,436
Speaker 1: I listened to much less hard rock once that started.

419
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Speaker 1: Do you think um like Walk This Way would have

420
00:21:29,436 --> 00:21:32,636
Speaker 1: worked with and this isn't a god I wish you

421
00:21:32,676 --> 00:21:35,436
Speaker 1: would have tried. I'm just throwing out a hypothetically. Do

422
00:21:35,476 --> 00:21:37,356
Speaker 1: you think that that song would have worked with any

423
00:21:37,356 --> 00:21:38,996
Speaker 1: other band? Like if you had tried that with led

424
00:21:39,076 --> 00:21:42,276
Speaker 1: Zeppein or A Deep Purple or any other track. So

425
00:21:42,596 --> 00:21:47,316
Speaker 1: the reason that Walk This Way worked had mostly to

426
00:21:47,396 --> 00:21:49,316
Speaker 1: do with the vocal phrasing. That was the key. There

427
00:21:49,316 --> 00:21:52,556
Speaker 1: were two pieces actually, so the one key was the

428
00:21:52,596 --> 00:21:55,036
Speaker 1: inspiration for that was. I went to dinner in Los

429
00:21:55,036 --> 00:21:59,676
Speaker 1: Angeles with a head of a record company who was

430
00:21:59,716 --> 00:22:04,036
Speaker 1: trying to sign you know, sign me. Yeah, And so

431
00:22:04,076 --> 00:22:06,956
Speaker 1: he couldn't have been more like on good behavior and

432
00:22:06,996 --> 00:22:09,276
Speaker 1: friendly yeah, And he said, you know, why why do

433
00:22:09,316 --> 00:22:11,316
Speaker 1: you think people like this rap stuff? Is? I mean,

434
00:22:11,356 --> 00:22:13,516
Speaker 1: after it's not music? Now he's saying this to me

435
00:22:13,556 --> 00:22:18,356
Speaker 1: as like, right, yeah, yeah, just completely oblivious. This is

436
00:22:18,436 --> 00:22:22,196
Speaker 1: not Why would anybody like this thing that's not music? Right? Yeah?

437
00:22:22,316 --> 00:22:26,516
Speaker 1: And I thought there's some way to bridge the gap,

438
00:22:26,596 --> 00:22:29,796
Speaker 1: There's some way so that that guy would understand what

439
00:22:29,836 --> 00:22:33,196
Speaker 1: this is, sure, right, And I just started listening to

440
00:22:33,276 --> 00:22:35,316
Speaker 1: records and think about, Okay, is there a record that's

441
00:22:35,356 --> 00:22:40,196
Speaker 1: a familiar record that vocally is not so different from

442
00:22:40,196 --> 00:22:43,756
Speaker 1: a rap record. Yeah, And the phrasing was and it's

443
00:22:43,796 --> 00:22:48,876
Speaker 1: not melodic sea, it's really the phrase. It's the phrasing. Yeah.

444
00:22:49,236 --> 00:22:52,436
Speaker 1: So it could have been, um, what's the Dylan song

445
00:22:53,156 --> 00:22:55,476
Speaker 1: Subterranean Homes? Yeah, it could have been that. That would

446
00:22:55,516 --> 00:22:59,436
Speaker 1: have worked too much monkey business? Ye, that could have worked. Yeah,

447
00:22:59,716 --> 00:23:01,676
Speaker 1: so whi there was something based on the phrasing. And

448
00:23:01,716 --> 00:23:06,316
Speaker 1: then the extra added benefit for Walk This Way is

449
00:23:06,356 --> 00:23:09,236
Speaker 1: that the drum break the intro to the record was

450
00:23:09,236 --> 00:23:10,836
Speaker 1: a drum break that you might hear in a hip

451
00:23:10,836 --> 00:23:14,316
Speaker 1: hop club in real life. Exact, it was already considered

452
00:23:15,236 --> 00:23:17,636
Speaker 1: in the hip hop cannon, not because of the song,

453
00:23:17,756 --> 00:23:20,156
Speaker 1: but only because of the beat, right, So it was

454
00:23:20,156 --> 00:23:26,036
Speaker 1: this magical combination of a hip hop friendly beat with

455
00:23:26,956 --> 00:23:30,916
Speaker 1: hip hop friendly phrasing. Yeah, And it really was just

456
00:23:30,956 --> 00:23:34,156
Speaker 1: to demonstrate, oh look, it's not that different. You know,

457
00:23:34,236 --> 00:23:37,156
Speaker 1: this is not foreign, right exactly. Yeah, it's funny. Yeah,

458
00:23:37,156 --> 00:23:39,996
Speaker 1: and whenever were never there's a new style. A lot

459
00:23:39,996 --> 00:23:43,116
Speaker 1: of the time, as you look back through music history,

460
00:23:44,356 --> 00:23:47,436
Speaker 1: it seems like the main gripe from the majority of

461
00:23:47,476 --> 00:23:50,116
Speaker 1: people is this is a lower ring of the bar.

462
00:23:50,476 --> 00:23:52,436
Speaker 1: This is a Lawrence's punk. All these guys are not

463
00:23:52,436 --> 00:23:55,916
Speaker 1: how to play their guitars, you know, but something rock

464
00:23:55,956 --> 00:23:58,636
Speaker 1: and roll compared to the the big band before. I thought

465
00:23:58,636 --> 00:24:02,036
Speaker 1: that's something they're asked Quincy Jones what the jazz guys

466
00:24:02,076 --> 00:24:05,036
Speaker 1: thought of the Beatles when they first got to America

467
00:24:05,116 --> 00:24:06,876
Speaker 1: all that was, and he says something like, those were

468
00:24:06,916 --> 00:24:10,356
Speaker 1: some no playing motherfuckers, we thought, And everyone got kind

469
00:24:10,356 --> 00:24:12,076
Speaker 1: of offended when you said, then, I thought I shouldn't

470
00:24:12,076 --> 00:24:14,396
Speaker 1: be offended by that, because I mean, stop for a

471
00:24:14,436 --> 00:24:20,476
Speaker 1: second and think about the incomplex chord changes and structures

472
00:24:20,476 --> 00:24:22,916
Speaker 1: those jazz guys were doing and free flowing off of

473
00:24:22,956 --> 00:24:25,876
Speaker 1: that and everything. And to hear guys come and play

474
00:24:26,036 --> 00:24:30,836
Speaker 1: three chords, four chords and sing and everyone's going ape

475
00:24:31,276 --> 00:24:34,396
Speaker 1: and selling millions of records, it might make you a

476
00:24:34,396 --> 00:24:38,196
Speaker 1: little bit like, geez, that's not you know, wait a minute,

477
00:24:38,476 --> 00:24:40,076
Speaker 1: but it's all. It's like that kind of thing where

478
00:24:40,076 --> 00:24:41,676
Speaker 1: people can walk into a museum and say, oh, I

479
00:24:41,676 --> 00:24:44,436
Speaker 1: could paint that, Well, no, you couldn't. You got to

480
00:24:44,476 --> 00:24:46,836
Speaker 1: come up with that idea, and then you got to construct,

481
00:24:46,956 --> 00:24:51,916
Speaker 1: constructed and the actual painting of at Jackson Park doesn't

482
00:24:51,916 --> 00:24:54,996
Speaker 1: really matter that the dripping part whatever. It's the same

483
00:24:54,996 --> 00:24:57,836
Speaker 1: thing with punk rocks, doesn't really matter about the notes

484
00:24:58,036 --> 00:25:02,076
Speaker 1: of who is the attitude behind it? You had to

485
00:25:02,116 --> 00:25:05,556
Speaker 1: construct that attitude or or coerci it out of you

486
00:25:05,676 --> 00:25:10,436
Speaker 1: from nothing, and that becomes more important than a proficiency

487
00:25:10,516 --> 00:25:12,476
Speaker 1: of the music and all that. But that's usually the

488
00:25:12,476 --> 00:25:13,676
Speaker 1: same thing, and the same thing with hip hop. We

489
00:25:13,796 --> 00:25:15,876
Speaker 1: came along and he's not even playing instruments anymore. There'sn't

490
00:25:15,916 --> 00:25:19,436
Speaker 1: even instruments. The funny thing now is like I kind

491
00:25:19,436 --> 00:25:23,156
Speaker 1: of feel, like, you know, modern sort of hip pop

492
00:25:23,196 --> 00:25:27,116
Speaker 1: production and hip hop production. I'm taken back to the eighties.

493
00:25:27,836 --> 00:25:30,076
Speaker 1: My feeling when I was ten, twelve years old. My

494
00:25:30,156 --> 00:25:33,836
Speaker 1: feelings then were it bummed me out that my friends

495
00:25:33,916 --> 00:25:36,556
Speaker 1: didn't know that was led Zeppelin being sampled on the

496
00:25:36,596 --> 00:25:38,996
Speaker 1: Best Boys album. Yeah, and it pissed me off. And

497
00:25:39,156 --> 00:25:41,236
Speaker 1: I knew that, and they didn't know that. And then

498
00:25:41,236 --> 00:25:43,476
Speaker 1: when I tried to educate them about that and play

499
00:25:43,516 --> 00:25:45,516
Speaker 1: them a led Zeppelin song, they just shrugged their shoulders

500
00:25:45,516 --> 00:25:49,316
Speaker 1: like I don't care. And I was like, just as

501
00:25:49,356 --> 00:25:51,396
Speaker 1: a young kid, I was like, if you like it,

502
00:25:51,436 --> 00:25:53,396
Speaker 1: that's what's cool about it? It's because it's our we

503
00:25:53,436 --> 00:25:56,476
Speaker 1: already know that riff, and it's it's they're not even

504
00:25:56,516 --> 00:25:59,836
Speaker 1: real performing me, they're actually sampling it. So that was

505
00:25:59,876 --> 00:26:02,156
Speaker 1: frustrating to me as a kid that other people didn't

506
00:26:02,276 --> 00:26:04,356
Speaker 1: or would be like what was like EPMD, I shot

507
00:26:04,356 --> 00:26:07,916
Speaker 1: the sheriff for now, that's Eric Clapton covering Bob Marley

508
00:26:08,036 --> 00:26:09,836
Speaker 1: and it's no but he else knew that in my

509
00:26:09,876 --> 00:26:13,316
Speaker 1: neighborhood and they didn't care. And I struggled with that

510
00:26:13,476 --> 00:26:16,476
Speaker 1: a lot. Like that bummed me out. I think now,

511
00:26:16,876 --> 00:26:18,916
Speaker 1: I think it'd be safe to say if you played

512
00:26:18,956 --> 00:26:22,436
Speaker 1: one hundred teenagers the top ten songs right now and

513
00:26:22,596 --> 00:26:25,196
Speaker 1: ask them all, what is making this sound at this

514
00:26:25,236 --> 00:26:28,156
Speaker 1: part of the song? Who is performing this part of

515
00:26:28,156 --> 00:26:31,476
Speaker 1: the Where does this sound you're hearing coming from? I

516
00:26:31,556 --> 00:26:34,476
Speaker 1: would I would venture to guess, and no discs on them,

517
00:26:34,476 --> 00:26:38,276
Speaker 1: because why would they know that They wouldn't know what's

518
00:26:38,316 --> 00:26:42,076
Speaker 1: making the sound and what is that like? That's sort

519
00:26:42,076 --> 00:26:44,196
Speaker 1: of like, you know, I guess you could call it.

520
00:26:44,596 --> 00:26:46,676
Speaker 1: Some people would call gate keeping where you'd say like

521
00:26:46,756 --> 00:26:50,476
Speaker 1: you must enjoy this the way I enjoy this, or

522
00:26:50,516 --> 00:26:53,236
Speaker 1: something like that. But I always feel like, oh god,

523
00:26:53,236 --> 00:26:56,396
Speaker 1: it would be it would be frustrating to come up

524
00:26:56,436 --> 00:26:58,716
Speaker 1: in the age right now as a teenager as a

525
00:26:58,836 --> 00:27:01,716
Speaker 1: musician who wants to play music and not know how

526
00:27:01,756 --> 00:27:05,636
Speaker 1: to make the sound of that moment of this Kanye

527
00:27:05,716 --> 00:27:08,636
Speaker 1: West song or something like that. But then the plus

528
00:27:08,676 --> 00:27:10,636
Speaker 1: side of the positive side of it is they can

529
00:27:10,716 --> 00:27:13,796
Speaker 1: easily look it up on the Internet and find out

530
00:27:14,116 --> 00:27:19,276
Speaker 1: if they're really resourceful and maybe crecreated themselves. Whereas in

531
00:27:19,476 --> 00:27:22,156
Speaker 1: our day we would have had to go to the library,

532
00:27:23,236 --> 00:27:25,356
Speaker 1: go to the music store, ask somebody, hey, what makes

533
00:27:25,356 --> 00:27:28,476
Speaker 1: an echo? Do this kind of echo? And then you

534
00:27:28,476 --> 00:27:31,396
Speaker 1: would have to do a lot of work to figure something. Absolutely,

535
00:27:31,476 --> 00:27:33,356
Speaker 1: that's a dead beautiful right now you can find out

536
00:27:33,396 --> 00:27:35,356
Speaker 1: really fast for the question that you asked of, like

537
00:27:35,716 --> 00:27:38,636
Speaker 1: what's in the you know, what's the instrument playing in

538
00:27:39,276 --> 00:27:41,716
Speaker 1: these you know this sound in the top ten? Chances

539
00:27:41,716 --> 00:27:43,356
Speaker 1: are the answer to all of that is it's the

540
00:27:43,396 --> 00:27:47,916
Speaker 1: computer exactly. Yeah. But I know when Reading Against Machine

541
00:27:47,916 --> 00:27:50,756
Speaker 1: came out, when that was why I embraced that instantly

542
00:27:50,836 --> 00:27:53,116
Speaker 1: was because I couldn't believe that guitar player was making

543
00:27:53,156 --> 00:27:55,836
Speaker 1: his guitar sound like that. I even didn't believe it.

544
00:27:55,916 --> 00:27:59,076
Speaker 1: There's no way he could make the guitar. How is

545
00:27:59,116 --> 00:28:01,916
Speaker 1: he's making it that sound. It's very rare when you

546
00:28:01,996 --> 00:28:05,796
Speaker 1: when you hear an instrumentation where you don't know and

547
00:28:05,596 --> 00:28:08,076
Speaker 1: you know it's not some trick. You knew he's actually

548
00:28:08,076 --> 00:28:10,956
Speaker 1: playing that at that time ninety two or something. Those

549
00:28:10,996 --> 00:28:13,036
Speaker 1: are the moments you save or you want, These moments

550
00:28:13,036 --> 00:28:15,556
Speaker 1: I wish I had once a week, Like the bass

551
00:28:16,316 --> 00:28:19,836
Speaker 1: is so much of like what we think of the

552
00:28:19,876 --> 00:28:24,356
Speaker 1: guitar riff is the bass. Yeah, it's like deep purple.

553
00:28:24,436 --> 00:28:27,116
Speaker 1: We think of these huge guitar riffs that are really

554
00:28:27,236 --> 00:28:32,196
Speaker 1: organic base exactly. Yeah, it tricks you because, yeah, the

555
00:28:32,236 --> 00:28:35,156
Speaker 1: sound your ear goes to the sound on top. Yeah,

556
00:28:35,196 --> 00:28:37,796
Speaker 1: but sometimes the reason it has that scale and the

557
00:28:37,836 --> 00:28:40,516
Speaker 1: reason you're impressed with it is because you think, yeah,

558
00:28:40,556 --> 00:28:43,716
Speaker 1: the underneath, the growl underneath. That frustrates me. Now when

559
00:28:43,716 --> 00:28:46,476
Speaker 1: I listened to earlier recordings I've done, is that I

560
00:28:46,556 --> 00:28:50,436
Speaker 1: wanted to get that underneath deep growl, and even in

561
00:28:50,476 --> 00:28:52,916
Speaker 1: a two piece of mount like a white stripes, double

562
00:28:52,956 --> 00:28:55,716
Speaker 1: tracking or adding something else didn't happen. And I didn't

563
00:28:55,716 --> 00:29:00,396
Speaker 1: really know about subwaffer a double octave, you know, overdubbing

564
00:29:00,436 --> 00:29:02,236
Speaker 1: and all these kind of things that now, these tricks

565
00:29:02,236 --> 00:29:05,796
Speaker 1: I've learned over the years to bring those tones to fruition.

566
00:29:05,836 --> 00:29:08,756
Speaker 1: But sometimes I think that at that time I was

567
00:29:09,196 --> 00:29:12,036
Speaker 1: emulating maybe a deep purple sound that was coming from

568
00:29:12,036 --> 00:29:14,076
Speaker 1: the growl of the Hammond organ and not from the

569
00:29:14,196 --> 00:29:16,316
Speaker 1: guitar itself. You know, it takes a while to learn

570
00:29:16,476 --> 00:29:21,636
Speaker 1: us absolutely, and you might find a new sound. You know,

571
00:29:21,676 --> 00:29:24,716
Speaker 1: you're you're trying to get the deep purple sound, yeah,

572
00:29:24,796 --> 00:29:27,316
Speaker 1: and you end up creating something new. Right. They were

573
00:29:27,356 --> 00:29:30,796
Speaker 1: trying to copy Vanilla Fudge and sound like them, and

574
00:29:30,836 --> 00:29:34,236
Speaker 1: they came up with their own big sound, gigantic sound,

575
00:29:34,436 --> 00:29:37,476
Speaker 1: which I think sometimes is overshadowed by Led Zeppelin because

576
00:29:39,276 --> 00:29:42,196
Speaker 1: I underappreciated what some of the suff deep purple did.

577
00:29:42,956 --> 00:29:45,156
Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more from Rick Rubin and

578
00:29:45,316 --> 00:29:52,396
Speaker 1: Jack White. We're back with more from Rick Rubin's conversation

579
00:29:52,756 --> 00:29:57,156
Speaker 1: with Jack White. Tell me about the world of music

580
00:29:57,196 --> 00:29:59,236
Speaker 1: that you were born into. I don't know much about

581
00:29:59,276 --> 00:30:01,716
Speaker 1: the scene in Detroit when you were a kid. What's it.

582
00:30:02,316 --> 00:30:05,516
Speaker 1: Tell me the story. Well, we had um big family,

583
00:30:05,516 --> 00:30:07,556
Speaker 1: and my brothers liked a lot of rock and roll,

584
00:30:07,676 --> 00:30:11,156
Speaker 1: and you know Johnny kab and who and Pink Floyd

585
00:30:11,196 --> 00:30:13,876
Speaker 1: and things like that, a lot of the progressive rock

586
00:30:13,916 --> 00:30:16,396
Speaker 1: and rock, classic rock and all those stuff. They were

587
00:30:16,396 --> 00:30:20,036
Speaker 1: really big on all that, and parents were big music

588
00:30:20,116 --> 00:30:22,396
Speaker 1: lovers of big band music and Nat King Cole and

589
00:30:22,596 --> 00:30:25,436
Speaker 1: Glenn Miller and Jen Krupa. Yeah, and I was growing

590
00:30:25,476 --> 00:30:27,796
Speaker 1: up in the inner city Detroit eighties, so that was

591
00:30:28,116 --> 00:30:32,036
Speaker 1: hip hop and the def Jam early records were all

592
00:30:32,076 --> 00:30:34,476
Speaker 1: being played as we were playing four Squares, Ella Cool

593
00:30:34,556 --> 00:30:37,556
Speaker 1: Jay and That's Outside and Mexican music. At the next

594
00:30:37,556 --> 00:30:40,796
Speaker 1: houseover and the neighbors next door, they all listened to

595
00:30:40,836 --> 00:30:42,636
Speaker 1: all the boys and their family all listen to, like

596
00:30:42,676 --> 00:30:45,076
Speaker 1: the punky side of things, that MC five studges and

597
00:30:45,316 --> 00:30:47,276
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. Our family didn't really listen to

598
00:30:47,276 --> 00:30:48,756
Speaker 1: that much. I didn't get into that till I was

599
00:30:48,796 --> 00:30:52,276
Speaker 1: a teenager bolder. So yeah, that was kind of a

600
00:30:52,316 --> 00:30:54,396
Speaker 1: lots of different kinds of music going up. But my

601
00:30:54,476 --> 00:30:57,476
Speaker 1: friends at school didn't listen to any of that stuff.

602
00:30:57,476 --> 00:31:01,276
Speaker 1: It was only house music and rap and Top forty

603
00:31:01,436 --> 00:31:04,116
Speaker 1: or whatever. When did you first When did your love

604
00:31:04,156 --> 00:31:07,276
Speaker 1: of music start? I think pretty early on when I

605
00:31:07,596 --> 00:31:10,796
Speaker 1: started playing dramas ons five, But my brothers had a

606
00:31:10,836 --> 00:31:13,236
Speaker 1: drum kit up in the attic, so it was easy

607
00:31:13,276 --> 00:31:15,516
Speaker 1: to go up there and mess around. And they didn't

608
00:31:15,556 --> 00:31:17,356
Speaker 1: have a drum. I had a guitar player, bass player

609
00:31:17,396 --> 00:31:20,596
Speaker 1: and a keyboard player as my brothers already that those

610
00:31:20,716 --> 00:31:24,116
Speaker 1: instruts were already taken, so you know, drums were obvious

611
00:31:24,116 --> 00:31:26,276
Speaker 1: for me to play around with. So I did that.

612
00:31:26,356 --> 00:31:28,676
Speaker 1: In my whole childhood. I only wanted to play drums

613
00:31:28,676 --> 00:31:30,676
Speaker 1: scoring up. That was it. I used to practice in

614
00:31:31,236 --> 00:31:34,076
Speaker 1: high school under the desk with my feet, you know,

615
00:31:34,076 --> 00:31:37,596
Speaker 1: do parododiles with my feet and tips of my fingers

616
00:31:37,596 --> 00:31:40,756
Speaker 1: on my lap during classes, and yeah, it was. It

617
00:31:40,876 --> 00:31:43,316
Speaker 1: was something I kind of considered that it would be

618
00:31:43,876 --> 00:31:47,516
Speaker 1: a lifelong obsession along with whatever job I had, it

619
00:31:47,556 --> 00:31:50,916
Speaker 1: would be drums and drumming. Yeah. And then what was

620
00:31:50,956 --> 00:31:53,956
Speaker 1: your first music that was your music, not your family's music,

621
00:31:54,316 --> 00:31:57,436
Speaker 1: or what was coming from surrounding you? Great question. I

622
00:31:57,476 --> 00:32:00,036
Speaker 1: think there were these these trickles of things in high school,

623
00:32:00,076 --> 00:32:02,756
Speaker 1: which was there was a punk you know, got into

624
00:32:02,836 --> 00:32:04,476
Speaker 1: things like the Cramps and stuff, and it led to

625
00:32:04,516 --> 00:32:07,636
Speaker 1: this band of flat duo Jets. Was a really eye

626
00:32:07,596 --> 00:32:09,436
Speaker 1: opened everything. I went to a concert and I he

627
00:32:09,476 --> 00:32:12,876
Speaker 1: really was like a modern Geen Vincent and that kind

628
00:32:12,876 --> 00:32:14,796
Speaker 1: of felt like that was my own and then U.

629
00:32:15,236 --> 00:32:16,636
Speaker 1: But it was also at the same time there was

630
00:32:16,716 --> 00:32:19,116
Speaker 1: Rage against the Machine was happening, and I felt like

631
00:32:19,196 --> 00:32:22,276
Speaker 1: that was new, that something my brothers were, you know,

632
00:32:23,236 --> 00:32:25,876
Speaker 1: maybe it a little bit older and wouldn't have caught

633
00:32:25,956 --> 00:32:28,476
Speaker 1: onto that and whatever. It was nineteen ninety two or something,

634
00:32:29,516 --> 00:32:31,356
Speaker 1: so there was things like that. They weren't all the

635
00:32:31,396 --> 00:32:34,556
Speaker 1: same genre, they were different spots. But I think that

636
00:32:34,636 --> 00:32:36,516
Speaker 1: was kind of nice about when I came up, you know,

637
00:32:36,596 --> 00:32:39,156
Speaker 1: I could be very much into Bob Dylan and the

638
00:32:39,236 --> 00:32:41,556
Speaker 1: band and at the same time being into Rage Against

639
00:32:41,556 --> 00:32:43,716
Speaker 1: the Machine and the Cramps. What was the first Cramps

640
00:32:43,716 --> 00:32:46,156
Speaker 1: record you heard? Do you remember? Oh? It was a

641
00:32:46,236 --> 00:32:49,636
Speaker 1: Human Fly, the song Human Fly from Gravest Tits I think, yeah,

642
00:32:49,636 --> 00:32:52,076
Speaker 1: Gravest Tits. Yeah, that was a good one. Yes, I

643
00:32:52,076 --> 00:32:53,596
Speaker 1: mean I still think that might be one of the

644
00:32:53,676 --> 00:32:57,876
Speaker 1: top ten recordings ever made. That's unbelievable, unbelievable. That was

645
00:32:57,916 --> 00:32:59,916
Speaker 1: the first punk rock show I went to was the

646
00:33:00,036 --> 00:33:03,036
Speaker 1: Cramps at Irving Plaza. Oh, wow. When I was in

647
00:33:03,796 --> 00:33:05,276
Speaker 1: must have been high school, but it might have been

648
00:33:05,356 --> 00:33:08,996
Speaker 1: junior high school. Wow. And it was mind blowing life

649
00:33:09,276 --> 00:33:11,516
Speaker 1: who else was on with the original with the original

650
00:33:11,516 --> 00:33:15,916
Speaker 1: band with with Nick Nick knocks the original crew and

651
00:33:16,116 --> 00:33:21,076
Speaker 1: uh Brian Gregory, original guitar player. Wow, yeah, fantastic. I

652
00:33:21,076 --> 00:33:22,836
Speaker 1: don't remember who was I don't even know if there

653
00:33:22,876 --> 00:33:25,196
Speaker 1: was anyone else on the build. It was definitely a

654
00:33:25,236 --> 00:33:27,716
Speaker 1: Cramps gig. There may have been an opening act, yeah, yeah, yeah,

655
00:33:27,836 --> 00:33:30,716
Speaker 1: but it wasn't like a bunch of bands, right right. Yeah.

656
00:33:30,756 --> 00:33:33,396
Speaker 1: My first punk show was Fugazi. That was another That

657
00:33:33,516 --> 00:33:36,116
Speaker 1: was another band that I would one was kind of mine.

658
00:33:36,156 --> 00:33:38,316
Speaker 1: It was a great nation of ulysses warmed up and

659
00:33:38,876 --> 00:33:43,116
Speaker 1: wait to see him play. Is a Majestic theater which

660
00:33:43,476 --> 00:33:45,756
Speaker 1: I ended up playing in a couple of years later

661
00:33:45,756 --> 00:33:48,516
Speaker 1: a few years later with the White Stripes, And there's

662
00:33:48,556 --> 00:33:52,196
Speaker 1: a bowling alley there and uh, there's a pool hall upstairs.

663
00:33:52,236 --> 00:33:54,076
Speaker 1: We played the pool hall called the Magic Stick and

664
00:33:54,116 --> 00:33:56,916
Speaker 1: then the Majestic Theater as well. So yeah, it was

665
00:33:56,916 --> 00:33:58,596
Speaker 1: a cool little hub there, all in the cast court

666
00:33:58,716 --> 00:34:00,396
Speaker 1: or And now you know, it's great as a block away.

667
00:34:00,396 --> 00:34:03,836
Speaker 1: We've built our Third Man Records pressing plant from that zone.

668
00:34:04,076 --> 00:34:06,516
Speaker 1: It's great to still be in that neighborhood creating. You

669
00:34:06,596 --> 00:34:08,796
Speaker 1: gotta be good if you're playing in a place where

670
00:34:08,796 --> 00:34:12,756
Speaker 1: there's a bowling alley, because forget it, I'll just go bowling.

671
00:34:13,556 --> 00:34:17,076
Speaker 1: This is no good. I'm bowling if everybody likes the bowl. Yeah,

672
00:34:17,076 --> 00:34:18,996
Speaker 1: and the music really has to be good to take

673
00:34:18,996 --> 00:34:21,556
Speaker 1: you away from bowling. It's that you know you're making

674
00:34:21,556 --> 00:34:24,556
Speaker 1: the perfect point because upstairs as well the magic stick,

675
00:34:24,596 --> 00:34:26,356
Speaker 1: there was a whole The whole right side was all

676
00:34:26,356 --> 00:34:29,276
Speaker 1: pool tables. The left side was the people watching the show.

677
00:34:29,556 --> 00:34:31,636
Speaker 1: And you could tell by if you were doing something

678
00:34:31,676 --> 00:34:34,596
Speaker 1: interesting or not about how many people were playing pool, Yeah,

679
00:34:34,636 --> 00:34:37,436
Speaker 1: and how empty the tables were. And yeah, by the

680
00:34:37,476 --> 00:34:39,036
Speaker 1: time the White Stripes had to get going, it was

681
00:34:39,076 --> 00:34:41,996
Speaker 1: the tables started to empty out. And then we sold

682
00:34:42,076 --> 00:34:44,316
Speaker 1: enough tickets where they were filling up with people standing there,

683
00:34:44,356 --> 00:34:47,756
Speaker 1: not playing, watching us, and that felt like yeah, it

684
00:34:47,836 --> 00:34:50,276
Speaker 1: was So you're making an interesting point. Yeah, So when

685
00:34:50,316 --> 00:34:53,516
Speaker 1: you started playing out in clubs, was there a scene

686
00:34:53,596 --> 00:34:55,796
Speaker 1: of Was there a garage rock scene in Detroit at

687
00:34:55,836 --> 00:34:59,156
Speaker 1: that time? Yeah? There was, and I was learning slowly

688
00:34:59,196 --> 00:35:01,636
Speaker 1: about it. It was a band, or the most important

689
00:35:01,636 --> 00:35:04,516
Speaker 1: band from then was called the Glories. There were a

690
00:35:04,556 --> 00:35:08,396
Speaker 1: three piece female drummer named Peg who would only had

691
00:35:08,556 --> 00:35:11,796
Speaker 1: two times, no skin on the kick trump. She put

692
00:35:11,796 --> 00:35:14,156
Speaker 1: her foot in the kick trump to hold it steady.

693
00:35:14,356 --> 00:35:17,636
Speaker 1: Two tom's and a tambourine duct taped to the kick trump.

694
00:35:18,196 --> 00:35:22,316
Speaker 1: That's it. That was the drums and two guitar players,

695
00:35:22,316 --> 00:35:27,116
Speaker 1: no bass, very cool, black black male singer, white female drummer,

696
00:35:27,476 --> 00:35:31,196
Speaker 1: white male guitar player, no bass, no kick trum, no bass,

697
00:35:31,196 --> 00:35:34,556
Speaker 1: no kick trump, and such a unique sound. And they

698
00:35:34,956 --> 00:35:38,156
Speaker 1: are the kings of the Detroit garage rock scene still are.

699
00:35:38,836 --> 00:35:40,476
Speaker 1: When you were a kid, did you see them play live?

700
00:35:40,516 --> 00:35:43,756
Speaker 1: I just had stopped performing when I was old enough

701
00:35:43,756 --> 00:35:46,036
Speaker 1: to go to shows. I just missed them. And they

702
00:35:46,036 --> 00:35:48,396
Speaker 1: splintered into these other groups called the Dirt Bombs and

703
00:35:48,476 --> 00:35:51,516
Speaker 1: a Rocket for fifty five, and I saw those bands

704
00:35:52,076 --> 00:35:54,116
Speaker 1: and I ended up playing with those bands a couple

705
00:35:54,116 --> 00:35:56,836
Speaker 1: of years later. How old were you at this time

706
00:35:56,836 --> 00:35:59,116
Speaker 1: when you just started playing? This is like memory. I'm

707
00:35:59,116 --> 00:36:02,476
Speaker 1: like fifteen sixteen starting, just just starting to learn about

708
00:36:02,596 --> 00:36:04,836
Speaker 1: playing guitar. And I only did that because the guy

709
00:36:05,036 --> 00:36:07,396
Speaker 1: worked in a pulstry shop with He was a drummer too.

710
00:36:07,396 --> 00:36:09,996
Speaker 1: We were both drummers, so in order for us to

711
00:36:10,076 --> 00:36:12,196
Speaker 1: jam together, I had to play guitar so that we

712
00:36:12,236 --> 00:36:14,876
Speaker 1: could play together. So we would move the furniture aside

713
00:36:14,876 --> 00:36:16,436
Speaker 1: and bring out the drum set and get at the

714
00:36:16,516 --> 00:36:19,676
Speaker 1: end of the day. Sometimes it's pretty amazing experienced to

715
00:36:20,116 --> 00:36:22,036
Speaker 1: being an apprentice and also get to play music. I

716
00:36:22,156 --> 00:36:24,796
Speaker 1: was like, wow, this is great and then getting into

717
00:36:24,836 --> 00:36:29,116
Speaker 1: this kind of music too. And this was another band

718
00:36:29,156 --> 00:36:31,596
Speaker 1: that was my own, you know. That felt like I

719
00:36:31,596 --> 00:36:34,676
Speaker 1: owned this band, you know. And then you know, then

720
00:36:34,676 --> 00:36:36,756
Speaker 1: we like actually got to meet them. We saw that.

721
00:36:36,796 --> 00:36:38,836
Speaker 1: I remember seeing a Dan Crow in a coffee shop

722
00:36:38,836 --> 00:36:42,476
Speaker 1: and oh my god, that's Dan from the Glories. It's uh,

723
00:36:42,836 --> 00:36:44,956
Speaker 1: it's Will because yeah, so you had that whole scene

724
00:36:45,316 --> 00:36:47,356
Speaker 1: there with that. And then when by the time I

725
00:36:47,436 --> 00:36:50,636
Speaker 1: come out with the doing the white stripes in that scene,

726
00:36:51,396 --> 00:36:55,116
Speaker 1: I was a little bit shocked. They embraced us so

727
00:36:55,236 --> 00:36:58,596
Speaker 1: quickly and things happened. We made a lot of friends.

728
00:36:58,596 --> 00:37:01,396
Speaker 1: Pretty fat I didn't have any friends, neither did Meg,

729
00:37:01,476 --> 00:37:04,916
Speaker 1: and we we uh, all of a sudden, wait, wait

730
00:37:04,956 --> 00:37:06,876
Speaker 1: a minute, this guy likes the same music we do.

731
00:37:07,276 --> 00:37:08,996
Speaker 1: I never had this, you see, like I had a

732
00:37:09,196 --> 00:37:11,076
Speaker 1: one friend in high school who plays bass with me

733
00:37:11,076 --> 00:37:14,956
Speaker 1: still this day. He liked, you know, the deep purples

734
00:37:14,996 --> 00:37:16,756
Speaker 1: and the Holland Wolf records and stuff that I liked.

735
00:37:17,276 --> 00:37:19,196
Speaker 1: There was another kid I knew in the next pocket.

736
00:37:19,276 --> 00:37:21,756
Speaker 1: He liked BC Boys and we bonded a little bit

737
00:37:21,796 --> 00:37:24,876
Speaker 1: on that. But mostly everybody around me I went all

738
00:37:24,876 --> 00:37:27,316
Speaker 1: Mexican grade school, all black high school. They didn't like

739
00:37:27,356 --> 00:37:29,516
Speaker 1: any of the same music as me. So I wasn't

740
00:37:29,636 --> 00:37:31,476
Speaker 1: used to like being in a group of lots of people,

741
00:37:31,556 --> 00:37:33,916
Speaker 1: dozens of people all like iggy pop and all like

742
00:37:34,316 --> 00:37:37,636
Speaker 1: you know stuff. Growing up. Same for me, Yeah, I

743
00:37:37,716 --> 00:37:40,876
Speaker 1: was the only punk rocker in my school. It was lonely. Yeah,

744
00:37:40,916 --> 00:37:43,596
Speaker 1: it's wild as well. It makes you question it at times,

745
00:37:43,596 --> 00:37:45,636
Speaker 1: but I was always like, well, I like this, and

746
00:37:45,916 --> 00:37:48,436
Speaker 1: I kind of almost feel like you should have just

747
00:37:49,196 --> 00:37:51,076
Speaker 1: loosened up a little bit or made some more friends,

748
00:37:51,196 --> 00:37:52,476
Speaker 1: you know, if you've just been a little bit more.

749
00:37:53,596 --> 00:37:57,196
Speaker 1: I just said such strong beliefs about what turned me on,

750
00:37:57,596 --> 00:38:00,316
Speaker 1: you know, musically, artistically and all that stuff. Do you

751
00:38:00,396 --> 00:38:03,676
Speaker 1: think because of the glories, the idea of having a

752
00:38:03,756 --> 00:38:07,836
Speaker 1: two person group felt acceptable. Yes, the goryes in the

753
00:38:07,836 --> 00:38:12,196
Speaker 1: flat to a jets both the made acceptable idea that

754
00:38:12,236 --> 00:38:14,436
Speaker 1: the white stripes could be a thing interesting. And then

755
00:38:14,476 --> 00:38:16,756
Speaker 1: I had come from playing with the Supholsters group, the

756
00:38:16,756 --> 00:38:18,956
Speaker 1: two of us playing, and that was just guitar and drums,

757
00:38:18,996 --> 00:38:20,956
Speaker 1: no bass yeh, which was you know, say to like

758
00:38:21,076 --> 00:38:23,076
Speaker 1: my brother's world of music. That was like, whoa, that's

759
00:38:23,076 --> 00:38:25,596
Speaker 1: weird to have a band with no bass. But there

760
00:38:25,676 --> 00:38:27,836
Speaker 1: was already two bands, yeah, the Goories and the Flat

761
00:38:27,996 --> 00:38:30,476
Speaker 1: just both didn't have a bass player, Like the Doors

762
00:38:30,516 --> 00:38:32,356
Speaker 1: didn't have a bass player, but they still had four

763
00:38:32,396 --> 00:38:34,996
Speaker 1: people and they had yeah exactly, and yeah sell four

764
00:38:35,036 --> 00:38:36,996
Speaker 1: people only still had that. And when I think of

765
00:38:37,036 --> 00:38:41,356
Speaker 1: two person groups before the White Stripes, I think of Suicide,

766
00:38:41,476 --> 00:38:44,636
Speaker 1: I think of depeche Mode. Yeah, it's always electronic, it's

767
00:38:44,716 --> 00:38:48,676
Speaker 1: never it's never worth Yeah, those are all the ones

768
00:38:48,716 --> 00:38:51,636
Speaker 1: that come to mind, all those yes. Yeah. I thought,

769
00:38:51,916 --> 00:38:54,636
Speaker 1: though what was different about what we were doing was

770
00:38:54,676 --> 00:38:56,916
Speaker 1: I had become so immersed and in love with the

771
00:38:56,956 --> 00:39:00,756
Speaker 1: blues at that point that this would be a great

772
00:39:00,836 --> 00:39:04,396
Speaker 1: way and obfuscation for me to be able to play

773
00:39:04,396 --> 00:39:07,676
Speaker 1: that music and get inside of it and obfuscate with

774
00:39:07,716 --> 00:39:10,316
Speaker 1: the red, white and black color ski and the male

775
00:39:10,396 --> 00:39:13,556
Speaker 1: female thing and they're no bass player and all that

776
00:39:13,636 --> 00:39:16,196
Speaker 1: other stuff, which I liked all of that, and I

777
00:39:16,276 --> 00:39:17,756
Speaker 1: loved all of it. And got a lot out of it,

778
00:39:17,916 --> 00:39:19,916
Speaker 1: and maybe the blend of that with the blues was

779
00:39:19,956 --> 00:39:22,996
Speaker 1: what we were at the moment. I was like, this

780
00:39:23,036 --> 00:39:27,276
Speaker 1: is my way of sneakily not getting called white boy blues, tragic, stratic,

781
00:39:27,316 --> 00:39:31,556
Speaker 1: hester nonsense, which was super uncool in that zone of

782
00:39:31,596 --> 00:39:33,476
Speaker 1: that garage rock world at that time. Talk a little

783
00:39:33,476 --> 00:39:36,236
Speaker 1: bit about the colors. When did the idea of the black, red,

784
00:39:36,276 --> 00:39:42,036
Speaker 1: and white become part of the vision of the band. Yeah,

785
00:39:42,076 --> 00:39:45,756
Speaker 1: the my polstry shop was yellow, black and white. All

786
00:39:45,756 --> 00:39:48,676
Speaker 1: the colors came from my tools and my power saws

787
00:39:48,676 --> 00:39:50,916
Speaker 1: and my hand tool poster, hand tools. And then I

788
00:39:50,916 --> 00:39:53,996
Speaker 1: had bought a yellow van I was abandoned, like or

789
00:39:54,036 --> 00:39:57,516
Speaker 1: an old US Detroit Fire Department van, and that's what

790
00:39:57,556 --> 00:39:59,436
Speaker 1: I was going to do the deliveries from the furniture with.

791
00:39:59,636 --> 00:40:02,436
Speaker 1: And I started to dress and yellow and black to

792
00:40:02,436 --> 00:40:05,076
Speaker 1: do the deliveries and then do the bills and crayon

793
00:40:05,156 --> 00:40:08,796
Speaker 1: and yellow and black crayon, and the artistic side of

794
00:40:08,836 --> 00:40:11,036
Speaker 1: it took Quote was taking over him. Did you own

795
00:40:11,116 --> 00:40:13,236
Speaker 1: that company or were you an employee? I didn't know

796
00:40:13,276 --> 00:40:15,396
Speaker 1: that you owned the company. Yeah. When I was twenty one,

797
00:40:15,516 --> 00:40:18,236
Speaker 1: I had a mortgage, I had my own business. I

798
00:40:18,436 --> 00:40:22,036
Speaker 1: was in three bands. Wow. I sometimes wonder like people

799
00:40:22,116 --> 00:40:26,356
Speaker 1: must have thought I was really maybe crazy or insane

800
00:40:26,436 --> 00:40:29,596
Speaker 1: or something, because now if you saw, like if you know,

801
00:40:29,636 --> 00:40:31,036
Speaker 1: if you had a twenty one year old son that

802
00:40:31,116 --> 00:40:33,156
Speaker 1: was doing all that, Wow, oh my god, how can

803
00:40:33,196 --> 00:40:35,836
Speaker 1: I help you? Can? I you know, blah blah, we're

804
00:40:35,836 --> 00:40:38,236
Speaker 1: pat on the back or I never heard anything like

805
00:40:38,236 --> 00:40:40,076
Speaker 1: that from adults saying, Oh that's great, you're doing that.

806
00:40:40,476 --> 00:40:45,516
Speaker 1: That's amazing. You're never heard anything like that, and they

807
00:40:45,596 --> 00:40:48,756
Speaker 1: just paying attention or what do you think? I think

808
00:40:48,756 --> 00:40:51,836
Speaker 1: maybe they're just kind of falling. He's weird and it

809
00:40:51,956 --> 00:40:54,356
Speaker 1: means he or he thinks he has a company or

810
00:40:54,396 --> 00:40:57,756
Speaker 1: something and he probably doesn't really or I don't know,

811
00:40:57,796 --> 00:41:01,436
Speaker 1: I don't know what they were thinking. Strange. Most upholstery

812
00:41:01,436 --> 00:41:05,556
Speaker 1: companies don't have colors associated with those that either. What

813
00:41:05,636 --> 00:41:08,516
Speaker 1: do you think triggered that idea? If I had to

814
00:41:08,516 --> 00:41:12,636
Speaker 1: pick one moment, there was a moment of I watched

815
00:41:12,636 --> 00:41:17,396
Speaker 1: this special encounterfeiting, and they talked about this Dutch designer

816
00:41:17,396 --> 00:41:18,676
Speaker 1: and I don't know how to pronounce his name, it's

817
00:41:18,676 --> 00:41:22,876
Speaker 1: like oat j Oxenar. But he had designed this currency

818
00:41:22,916 --> 00:41:25,916
Speaker 1: that the five and the ten and the twenty dollar bills.

819
00:41:25,956 --> 00:41:27,476
Speaker 1: I don't know the name of the currency there, but

820
00:41:27,516 --> 00:41:29,676
Speaker 1: it was you know, this was purple was the five,

821
00:41:30,036 --> 00:41:32,596
Speaker 1: and blue was the ten, and red was the twenty,

822
00:41:32,836 --> 00:41:35,236
Speaker 1: and you knew exactly what you had in your hands

823
00:41:35,276 --> 00:41:37,556
Speaker 1: just by looking at it without looking at the number.

824
00:41:37,996 --> 00:41:40,956
Speaker 1: And I just really that was really inspiring to me, like, oh, instantly,

825
00:41:40,996 --> 00:41:44,556
Speaker 1: to know what something is instantaneously without having to have

826
00:41:44,556 --> 00:41:47,036
Speaker 1: it written on the screen or written across a T shirt.

827
00:41:47,676 --> 00:41:51,356
Speaker 1: So everything I did do with Third Man Upholstery was

828
00:41:51,396 --> 00:41:53,196
Speaker 1: going to be yellow, black and white, and sent her

829
00:41:53,236 --> 00:41:55,036
Speaker 1: around the number three as well. The third Man was

830
00:41:55,076 --> 00:41:57,996
Speaker 1: the name of the upholstery company, a third Man Upholstery.

831
00:41:58,156 --> 00:42:00,996
Speaker 1: Where did that name come from? Originally for the upholstery company.

832
00:42:01,396 --> 00:42:05,316
Speaker 1: That's a long answer, but it's it's a I was

833
00:42:05,316 --> 00:42:08,556
Speaker 1: actually the third upholsterer on my street. There was an

834
00:42:08,556 --> 00:42:10,156
Speaker 1: old guy named Clump, and then the guy next tour

835
00:42:10,196 --> 00:42:11,516
Speaker 1: to me, ri, I'm all done, and I was the

836
00:42:11,596 --> 00:42:16,476
Speaker 1: third one. Also the street was called Ferdinand Streets Ferdinand

837
00:42:16,596 --> 00:42:18,836
Speaker 1: third Man, and I'm also obsessed with the number three.

838
00:42:18,956 --> 00:42:21,396
Speaker 1: And also orson Wells was my biggest title at that

839
00:42:21,476 --> 00:42:24,476
Speaker 1: moment especially, so all of this came around. Yeah the

840
00:42:24,476 --> 00:42:27,676
Speaker 1: third Man, Yeah, your furniture is not dead was on

841
00:42:27,756 --> 00:42:31,196
Speaker 1: my business card, was the slogan, which now with Third

842
00:42:31,196 --> 00:42:34,756
Speaker 1: Man Records, it's your Turntable's not dead and so yeah,

843
00:42:34,796 --> 00:42:38,156
Speaker 1: so you basically keep retreading the same old, tired ideas

844
00:42:38,196 --> 00:42:41,196
Speaker 1: from child. Oh yeah, oh yeah, it never goes away.

845
00:42:41,236 --> 00:42:43,516
Speaker 1: That's great. Yeah, so that got transferred over to the

846
00:42:43,556 --> 00:42:45,356
Speaker 1: white stripes, which was instead of yellow black, and when

847
00:42:45,356 --> 00:42:46,876
Speaker 1: it was red black and white, And how did that

848
00:42:46,916 --> 00:42:49,196
Speaker 1: decision get made? How did it become red black? Oh?

849
00:42:49,316 --> 00:42:51,756
Speaker 1: Meg said something about peppermint candies. I love I love

850
00:42:51,796 --> 00:42:53,876
Speaker 1: peppermint candies. And we were at the drug stripes. And

851
00:42:53,956 --> 00:42:55,716
Speaker 1: now you know that we've been playing this music that

852
00:42:55,716 --> 00:42:59,156
Speaker 1: should be on your bass drum. That that peppermint you

853
00:42:59,516 --> 00:43:01,516
Speaker 1: just painted. I said, I'll paint it when we get home.

854
00:43:01,676 --> 00:43:04,956
Speaker 1: I'll paint the peppermint and bassed trum. That'll be funny.

855
00:43:05,116 --> 00:43:06,676
Speaker 1: And then once we did that, and the drum set

856
00:43:06,716 --> 00:43:08,396
Speaker 1: was white, and I thought, and she had black hair

857
00:43:08,436 --> 00:43:10,196
Speaker 1: and I had black hair, I'm like, oh wow, then

858
00:43:10,236 --> 00:43:12,076
Speaker 1: I think maybe this is the three colors instead of

859
00:43:12,116 --> 00:43:13,676
Speaker 1: I have a third Man with yellow black and white.

860
00:43:13,716 --> 00:43:16,556
Speaker 1: WIST would be red, black and white. Yeah, for some reason,

861
00:43:16,596 --> 00:43:20,236
Speaker 1: people missed the black part of it a lot. People

862
00:43:20,236 --> 00:43:21,756
Speaker 1: we should say, oh, everything I do is red and white,

863
00:43:21,796 --> 00:43:24,196
Speaker 1: red and white or whatever. I don't care. But but

864
00:43:24,276 --> 00:43:26,476
Speaker 1: it was actually supposed to be three colors. Yeah. Actually

865
00:43:26,476 --> 00:43:28,956
Speaker 1: it was thought of it as black and white with red. Yeah,

866
00:43:29,036 --> 00:43:33,636
Speaker 1: just because black and white it always felt it felt monochromatic. Yes,

867
00:43:34,076 --> 00:43:36,636
Speaker 1: and now every all of my solo albums are all blue, white,

868
00:43:36,636 --> 00:43:40,316
Speaker 1: and black, and you know, white's all colors, and black

869
00:43:40,436 --> 00:43:42,276
Speaker 1: is the absence of color, and so he's really is

870
00:43:42,276 --> 00:43:45,596
Speaker 1: only one color for each of these things, red or blue, yellow.

871
00:43:45,716 --> 00:43:49,076
Speaker 1: The third man, when did you decide to start the label?

872
00:43:49,716 --> 00:43:52,236
Speaker 1: That was sort of an accident. When our manager Ian

873
00:43:52,356 --> 00:43:55,356
Speaker 1: Montone had gotten us. We were getting like this bidding

874
00:43:55,356 --> 00:44:00,516
Speaker 1: war had started with the band, probably because we stupidly

875
00:44:00,556 --> 00:44:02,716
Speaker 1: didn't take the first offers that came to us, which

876
00:44:02,756 --> 00:44:05,356
Speaker 1: were really generous, and we probably should have just yes

877
00:44:05,556 --> 00:44:07,876
Speaker 1: right right away, sir, we're coming up with an album

878
00:44:07,956 --> 00:44:11,316
Speaker 1: right away, and we didn't. I thought, Ah, I kept thinking,

879
00:44:12,076 --> 00:44:14,916
Speaker 1: nobody's gonna like this band in the mainstream. Six months

880
00:44:14,916 --> 00:44:18,036
Speaker 1: from now, this will sign with these guys they'll put

881
00:44:18,036 --> 00:44:20,076
Speaker 1: out one record and they'll drop us next year, and

882
00:44:20,076 --> 00:44:22,396
Speaker 1: then we might have been right, Yeah, that that actually

883
00:44:22,476 --> 00:44:24,676
Speaker 1: might have been right. It might have been Yeah. So

884
00:44:24,756 --> 00:44:28,756
Speaker 1: that was my each either very smart or very ignorant

885
00:44:28,876 --> 00:44:31,556
Speaker 1: way of looking at at the time, which led to

886
00:44:31,596 --> 00:44:33,516
Speaker 1: a bidding warm and then at that point was sort

887
00:44:33,516 --> 00:44:35,756
Speaker 1: of we could almost ask for whatever we wanted at

888
00:44:35,756 --> 00:44:38,276
Speaker 1: that second, which it was very strange because I, well,

889
00:44:38,276 --> 00:44:40,556
Speaker 1: what do you want? I don't, I don't know. I knew.

890
00:44:40,556 --> 00:44:42,596
Speaker 1: I didn't want to owe anybody anything, so I didn't

891
00:44:42,636 --> 00:44:45,276
Speaker 1: take any big advances. I just say, well, I want

892
00:44:45,316 --> 00:44:47,196
Speaker 1: us to get paid for the records we sold. Yes,

893
00:44:47,276 --> 00:44:49,236
Speaker 1: so it's on up and up. I don't anybody in

894
00:44:49,316 --> 00:44:51,836
Speaker 1: favors or anything like that. I still feel that way today,

895
00:44:52,236 --> 00:44:56,156
Speaker 1: and it worked. It worked out, and Ian got us

896
00:44:56,196 --> 00:44:59,556
Speaker 1: our own label to sort of protect me and protect us.

897
00:45:00,436 --> 00:45:03,076
Speaker 1: You know this imprint label name of what are you

898
00:45:03,156 --> 00:45:05,556
Speaker 1: gonna call? I say, oh, well, third Man Records, and

899
00:45:06,276 --> 00:45:09,956
Speaker 1: that became we we licensed these people record from my label,

900
00:45:09,996 --> 00:45:12,476
Speaker 1: third Man Record. So that was Ian's idea at the

901
00:45:12,516 --> 00:45:16,396
Speaker 1: time as a protective insurance thing. How did Ian see you, guys, first?

902
00:45:17,236 --> 00:45:19,196
Speaker 1: How did Ian see this? We would talk to somebody

903
00:45:19,236 --> 00:45:22,916
Speaker 1: at sub Subpop named Craig Aaronson. I think he's no

904
00:45:22,996 --> 00:45:26,596
Speaker 1: longer with us. I think he started asking questions which

905
00:45:26,636 --> 00:45:29,756
Speaker 1: every label probably would or should you guys are thinking

906
00:45:29,756 --> 00:45:32,196
Speaker 1: about getting a bass player and stuff like that, and

907
00:45:32,236 --> 00:45:34,396
Speaker 1: we thought, see, here we go. You know, this is

908
00:45:34,396 --> 00:45:37,916
Speaker 1: what we've always heard. They're gonna they're gonna try to

909
00:45:37,996 --> 00:45:40,716
Speaker 1: change us into a regular band or something. And we

910
00:45:40,916 --> 00:45:43,396
Speaker 1: didn't get mad or anything. We just thought, maybe it's

911
00:45:43,396 --> 00:45:45,636
Speaker 1: not for us. And then we would sit there next

912
00:45:45,716 --> 00:45:47,676
Speaker 1: day and think, oh god, are we so spoiled that

913
00:45:48,436 --> 00:45:52,116
Speaker 1: we're gonna have an attitude about a really nice opportunity, Like,

914
00:45:52,196 --> 00:45:54,196
Speaker 1: so maybe we should get a bass player if it

915
00:45:54,236 --> 00:45:55,916
Speaker 1: means we get to make records and not have day

916
00:45:55,996 --> 00:45:59,036
Speaker 1: jobs anymore. I don't know. So he would go back

917
00:45:59,076 --> 00:46:01,796
Speaker 1: and do you like the sound that? Like, did you

918
00:46:01,836 --> 00:46:06,276
Speaker 1: already know the sound of the two person group that

919
00:46:06,476 --> 00:46:10,196
Speaker 1: you guys had what you were making felt special to you?

920
00:46:10,676 --> 00:46:14,156
Speaker 1: It definitely felt special and felt right. It felt good.

921
00:46:14,876 --> 00:46:17,156
Speaker 1: If someone comes in the room and says, well, we're

922
00:46:17,196 --> 00:46:19,356
Speaker 1: going to try to take this to the mainstream, yeah,

923
00:46:19,556 --> 00:46:21,836
Speaker 1: I would have said that's not going to work, right,

924
00:46:21,996 --> 00:46:23,276
Speaker 1: I know, I'm not going to pretend like I know

925
00:46:23,316 --> 00:46:26,476
Speaker 1: everything about music or the music business, but my vote

926
00:46:26,476 --> 00:46:30,716
Speaker 1: would be I wouldn't bet on that. And it still

927
00:46:30,716 --> 00:46:33,676
Speaker 1: shocks me that that connected with people. I mean, I

928
00:46:33,756 --> 00:46:36,436
Speaker 1: mean coming home and watching my nieces and nephews watching

929
00:46:36,996 --> 00:46:39,636
Speaker 1: our video of ours on MTV in the living room

930
00:46:39,636 --> 00:46:43,356
Speaker 1: and thinking this is not making any sense. It doesn't

931
00:46:43,356 --> 00:46:45,956
Speaker 1: add up. It's like it's almost like, let's we kind

932
00:46:45,956 --> 00:46:47,796
Speaker 1: of started justifying by saying, you know what, Maybe it's

933
00:46:47,796 --> 00:46:50,156
Speaker 1: like why The Simpsons is so good but it's also

934
00:46:50,236 --> 00:46:54,076
Speaker 1: really popular. Maybe it's like that, Like no, it couldn't

935
00:46:54,116 --> 00:46:56,516
Speaker 1: be you know or what you know what I mean,

936
00:46:57,316 --> 00:46:59,676
Speaker 1: Sometimes you just assume when you get into like especially

937
00:46:59,676 --> 00:47:01,836
Speaker 1: in the Hip Hisstory world that get into really amazing

938
00:47:01,836 --> 00:47:04,676
Speaker 1: deep records that nobody's ever heard of, you start assuming

939
00:47:04,756 --> 00:47:07,476
Speaker 1: good things are ignored and and things that aren't very

940
00:47:07,476 --> 00:47:09,956
Speaker 1: good are popular. You start getting into a rut, which

941
00:47:09,996 --> 00:47:12,196
Speaker 1: is not really true, but you get into that rut,

942
00:47:12,436 --> 00:47:15,076
Speaker 1: especially when you're younger. So it was confusing for us

943
00:47:15,076 --> 00:47:16,836
Speaker 1: because we thought, does this mean we're not any good?

944
00:47:17,476 --> 00:47:19,756
Speaker 1: If we're if we're getting well known, maybe that means

945
00:47:19,796 --> 00:47:22,276
Speaker 1: we're no good or what we thought was special is

946
00:47:22,316 --> 00:47:26,116
Speaker 1: not special? Also interesting that that not only would there

947
00:47:26,116 --> 00:47:31,236
Speaker 1: really no known two person rock bands in the world

948
00:47:31,436 --> 00:47:34,516
Speaker 1: at that time, Yeah, there weren't even that many three men,

949
00:47:34,756 --> 00:47:38,956
Speaker 1: you know, other than it was especially after Jimmy Hendrix.

950
00:47:38,956 --> 00:47:42,676
Speaker 1: Like Jimmy Hendrix, you'd think broke open the world and

951
00:47:42,876 --> 00:47:47,236
Speaker 1: cream Yeah, and then after that maybe the police that's maybe, yeah,

952
00:47:47,316 --> 00:47:49,756
Speaker 1: there's not very money. It's funny, it's bizarre. It should

953
00:47:49,756 --> 00:47:52,796
Speaker 1: be hundreds, you'd think, yeah, and that and then we

954
00:47:52,836 --> 00:47:56,996
Speaker 1: saw that was maybe what started to bring us around.

955
00:47:56,996 --> 00:47:59,556
Speaker 1: And then in the subsequent couple of years after all

956
00:47:59,596 --> 00:48:01,596
Speaker 1: White Blood Cells came out, there were several two piece

957
00:48:01,636 --> 00:48:03,916
Speaker 1: bands that could become signed to major labels and the

958
00:48:03,996 --> 00:48:08,636
Speaker 1: Kills and Fiery Furnaces or YadA, YadA, YadA all donline.

959
00:48:08,676 --> 00:48:10,596
Speaker 1: And we kept seeing that, Oh, I say, okay, so

960
00:48:10,636 --> 00:48:14,236
Speaker 1: this is now. I guess we prove we prove something

961
00:48:14,236 --> 00:48:16,756
Speaker 1: to somebody. We weren't trying to pay really, but it

962
00:48:16,796 --> 00:48:19,756
Speaker 1: maybe it's it's proved something to somebody that maybe this

963
00:48:19,876 --> 00:48:22,156
Speaker 1: is a path we could explore some more. It was

964
00:48:22,196 --> 00:48:24,916
Speaker 1: great because a lot of great music and do you

965
00:48:24,956 --> 00:48:28,076
Speaker 1: know if any of those bands existed before they heard

966
00:48:28,076 --> 00:48:31,676
Speaker 1: the White stripes. I'm I'm gonna bet they did. I

967
00:48:31,676 --> 00:48:33,716
Speaker 1: don't know what they all did, yeah, I mean, yeah,

968
00:48:33,716 --> 00:48:36,236
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna bet they did. Because there's there's something

969
00:48:36,316 --> 00:48:40,556
Speaker 1: interesting that happens when when there's a movement which you're

970
00:48:40,676 --> 00:48:45,756
Speaker 1: part of a movement, that it doesn't just happen one like,

971
00:48:45,796 --> 00:48:48,636
Speaker 1: it's not one leader and everybody follows. It's like the

972
00:48:48,676 --> 00:48:51,476
Speaker 1: time is right for this for some reason. Yeah, there's

973
00:48:51,516 --> 00:48:54,716
Speaker 1: other people in other bedrooms and garages doing similar stuff,

974
00:48:54,756 --> 00:48:56,636
Speaker 1: and and and now they have a chance to have

975
00:48:56,956 --> 00:48:59,196
Speaker 1: some attention paid to them and brought out, brought out

976
00:48:59,676 --> 00:49:02,516
Speaker 1: into the daylight. And if something new that comes out

977
00:49:02,556 --> 00:49:06,276
Speaker 1: that's novel, you will see maybe maybe people will rush

978
00:49:06,316 --> 00:49:08,916
Speaker 1: to find other things like it that are also legit,

979
00:49:09,196 --> 00:49:11,716
Speaker 1: and they might be, and then there definitely will be

980
00:49:11,716 --> 00:49:15,836
Speaker 1: a second wave of copycat. And sometimes that copycat second

981
00:49:15,836 --> 00:49:20,156
Speaker 1: wave is ten times more successful than the first wave. Often, yeah, often,

982
00:49:20,356 --> 00:49:23,916
Speaker 1: and sometimes you see a little bit of copycat happen,

983
00:49:24,276 --> 00:49:26,796
Speaker 1: and then that copycat morphed into something else. I mean,

984
00:49:26,876 --> 00:49:28,876
Speaker 1: when I first saw the Arctic Monkeys come on, I thought, wow,

985
00:49:28,876 --> 00:49:30,836
Speaker 1: that guy is moving around like at the guitar player

986
00:49:30,876 --> 00:49:33,156
Speaker 1: in the strokes, like he's walking around, he holding his

987
00:49:33,196 --> 00:49:36,676
Speaker 1: guitar high, the stratig like like Albert and the Strokes

988
00:49:37,116 --> 00:49:39,196
Speaker 1: as I, well, that's great. I mean they're those kids,

989
00:49:39,196 --> 00:49:40,556
Speaker 1: you know, they were like, I don't know what they were,

990
00:49:40,636 --> 00:49:42,036
Speaker 1: nineteen or something. I was like that, that's fine. And

991
00:49:42,036 --> 00:49:44,596
Speaker 1: then look that Arctic Monkeys morphed into their own thing,

992
00:49:44,676 --> 00:49:47,396
Speaker 1: you know, very quickly, and their lyrics were so unique

993
00:49:47,396 --> 00:49:50,476
Speaker 1: on their own. And there's nothing wrong to have that

994
00:49:50,516 --> 00:49:53,836
Speaker 1: folk process of being inspired and taking it, trying to

995
00:49:53,836 --> 00:49:57,556
Speaker 1: take it to another level and emulating people. You everyone

996
00:49:57,596 --> 00:50:00,956
Speaker 1: goes through that of like it's the if to start

997
00:50:01,116 --> 00:50:04,316
Speaker 1: somewhere to end up finding your own voice. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

998
00:50:04,356 --> 00:50:06,836
Speaker 1: any way in it's good. Yeah yeah, I think so

999
00:50:06,996 --> 00:50:09,316
Speaker 1: if you can get in at all. Yeah. Yeah. It

1000
00:50:09,436 --> 00:50:12,676
Speaker 1: seems like if you're inspired to make music, you're inspired

1001
00:50:12,716 --> 00:50:16,676
Speaker 1: to make it by someone. Yeah. And the first method

1002
00:50:16,716 --> 00:50:18,556
Speaker 1: when you're a kid is well, I'm going to play

1003
00:50:18,556 --> 00:50:22,836
Speaker 1: it like that, Like that seems obvious. That's the starting yeah,

1004
00:50:22,876 --> 00:50:24,996
Speaker 1: and then it turns into whatever it's good to turn into.

1005
00:50:25,476 --> 00:50:29,076
Speaker 1: If you were Dylan coming up and you liked rock

1006
00:50:29,116 --> 00:50:31,476
Speaker 1: and roll in the fifties and the folk movement happened

1007
00:50:31,476 --> 00:50:33,596
Speaker 1: and that inspired you, and he got it, seems to

1008
00:50:33,636 --> 00:50:37,436
Speaker 1: get really engrossed in that and abandons the more rock

1009
00:50:37,476 --> 00:50:40,556
Speaker 1: and roll side of him and embraces the folk side

1010
00:50:40,556 --> 00:50:42,396
Speaker 1: of him and gets very into these deep older Blind

1011
00:50:42,436 --> 00:50:44,396
Speaker 1: and Lemon Jefferson songs and all this kind of stuff,

1012
00:50:44,516 --> 00:50:48,676
Speaker 1: and becomes the new king of folk and changes the world. Subsequently,

1013
00:50:48,796 --> 00:50:50,916
Speaker 1: he doesn't lose that love of rock and roll. It's

1014
00:50:50,916 --> 00:50:55,076
Speaker 1: still in there, and it does eventually come back around

1015
00:50:55,076 --> 00:50:56,836
Speaker 1: a few years later. I don't think you could ever

1016
00:50:56,876 --> 00:50:59,156
Speaker 1: suppress something like that. If that kid was inside of you.

1017
00:50:59,236 --> 00:51:01,956
Speaker 1: That's the first taste of something. The first things I

1018
00:51:01,996 --> 00:51:04,596
Speaker 1: really liked, the Deep Purples and led Zeppelin's are going

1019
00:51:04,636 --> 00:51:07,676
Speaker 1: to be with me forever. Doesn't matter how whatever bizarre

1020
00:51:07,716 --> 00:51:10,116
Speaker 1: punk band or strange thing I get into, that's still

1021
00:51:10,156 --> 00:51:13,676
Speaker 1: gonna be down in there somewhere. And sometimes people will say, oh,

1022
00:51:13,676 --> 00:51:15,636
Speaker 1: I can hear that. That sounds like a smoke on

1023
00:51:15,676 --> 00:51:17,116
Speaker 1: the water or sounds like a you know, I was

1024
00:51:17,116 --> 00:51:19,876
Speaker 1: like that. I don't doubt it, you know, I don't

1025
00:51:19,916 --> 00:51:23,116
Speaker 1: doubt it. I don't run to try to copy that stuff,

1026
00:51:23,436 --> 00:51:26,316
Speaker 1: but I don't run away from it either and try

1027
00:51:26,356 --> 00:51:28,836
Speaker 1: to pretend that I don't like it or it's not

1028
00:51:28,916 --> 00:51:32,676
Speaker 1: part of me. But I've never sat down and tried

1029
00:51:32,676 --> 00:51:36,636
Speaker 1: to copy someone else's thing on purpose. I'm gonna do

1030
00:51:36,676 --> 00:51:38,516
Speaker 1: that because that worked for them, So I'm going to

1031
00:51:38,596 --> 00:51:41,196
Speaker 1: copy that and steal that. Yeah, I've never had that

1032
00:51:41,276 --> 00:51:45,156
Speaker 1: devious mustache twiddling thought in my mind of that. I

1033
00:51:45,196 --> 00:51:46,796
Speaker 1: was like, No, there's things I like, and I'll do

1034
00:51:46,836 --> 00:51:48,596
Speaker 1: my own thing. I'll try to do my own thing.

1035
00:51:48,996 --> 00:51:50,796
Speaker 1: And there's going to be moments where people say, oh,

1036
00:51:50,836 --> 00:51:52,836
Speaker 1: that sounds like that, and it sounds like that. I'm like, Okay, well,

1037
00:51:52,876 --> 00:51:55,356
Speaker 1: you can't live in a vacuum anyway. You're already playing

1038
00:51:55,356 --> 00:51:57,156
Speaker 1: an instrument in singing with your own vocal cords. I

1039
00:51:57,156 --> 00:51:59,796
Speaker 1: mean something, say you sound like something, So don't worry

1040
00:51:59,836 --> 00:52:02,676
Speaker 1: about that. Let's just try to dive forward. What were

1041
00:52:02,716 --> 00:52:05,036
Speaker 1: the blues things? He said at the beginning of the band,

1042
00:52:05,076 --> 00:52:07,476
Speaker 1: you were really deeply into the blues. Yeah, what was

1043
00:52:07,516 --> 00:52:10,276
Speaker 1: the blues at the time? That was really speaking Son

1044
00:52:10,276 --> 00:52:14,156
Speaker 1: House and Robert Johnson and Holland Wolf and Charlie Patton.

1045
00:52:14,196 --> 00:52:17,036
Speaker 1: I was just getting into Charlie Patton brief slightly into it,

1046
00:52:17,076 --> 00:52:18,876
Speaker 1: but it was hard for me understand it. And uh,

1047
00:52:20,156 --> 00:52:23,676
Speaker 1: but I felt like that was something that felt real,

1048
00:52:23,956 --> 00:52:26,796
Speaker 1: It wasn't polished. And that's the same old story I

1049
00:52:26,836 --> 00:52:28,996
Speaker 1: suppose people have always said about the blues when they

1050
00:52:28,996 --> 00:52:31,556
Speaker 1: sort of discover it. But then you what's kind of

1051
00:52:31,716 --> 00:52:34,916
Speaker 1: interesting about my time period of embracing that is I

1052
00:52:34,956 --> 00:52:37,836
Speaker 1: got to instantly say, oh, okay, that's why I led

1053
00:52:37,956 --> 00:52:40,396
Speaker 1: Zeppe and then the Yardbirds and then Yardbirds and Jeff

1054
00:52:40,396 --> 00:52:42,436
Speaker 1: Beck and those guys were feeding off that record and

1055
00:52:42,596 --> 00:52:46,076
Speaker 1: them with Van Morrison, they were listening to that blues record. Okay,

1056
00:52:46,116 --> 00:52:49,516
Speaker 1: so these guys resold the blues back to America from England,

1057
00:52:49,916 --> 00:52:52,596
Speaker 1: got it. And then Jimmy Hendrix comes over to England

1058
00:52:52,636 --> 00:52:55,556
Speaker 1: from America black and also plays blues and sells that

1059
00:52:55,556 --> 00:52:57,556
Speaker 1: back to America, and you just start making all that

1060
00:52:57,836 --> 00:53:00,196
Speaker 1: all this compation's like, okay, great, Yeah, well, I guess

1061
00:53:00,276 --> 00:53:02,676
Speaker 1: I'm in good company then, because I feel the exact

1062
00:53:02,716 --> 00:53:05,796
Speaker 1: same way. Maybe thirty years has passed, but I feel

1063
00:53:05,796 --> 00:53:08,996
Speaker 1: like I'm almost doing yeah exactly. I think maybe it was, yeah,

1064
00:53:09,356 --> 00:53:12,876
Speaker 1: it was time for it to be reevaluated or rediscovered

1065
00:53:12,916 --> 00:53:18,236
Speaker 1: in a way when you guys were first exploding. I'll say,

1066
00:53:18,476 --> 00:53:20,556
Speaker 1: what were the other things that would have been on

1067
00:53:20,596 --> 00:53:22,556
Speaker 1: the radio at the same time that you were on

1068
00:53:22,556 --> 00:53:24,876
Speaker 1: the radio. Oh so, like sorry, what was like an

1069
00:53:24,916 --> 00:53:28,236
Speaker 1: alternative radio? What would have been played before you and

1070
00:53:28,316 --> 00:53:30,716
Speaker 1: after you? I remember now. I think it was the

1071
00:53:31,436 --> 00:53:35,156
Speaker 1: like the Limb Biscuits and the New Metals, corn and things.

1072
00:53:35,276 --> 00:53:38,476
Speaker 1: I think that's what's happening late late nineties, early two thousands.

1073
00:53:38,516 --> 00:53:40,716
Speaker 1: I think that's what was going on. Well. I had

1074
00:53:40,756 --> 00:53:45,116
Speaker 1: listened to alternative radio in the early nineties when I

1075
00:53:45,396 --> 00:53:47,076
Speaker 1: was in high school. The Yeah so that was yeah,

1076
00:53:47,156 --> 00:53:50,636
Speaker 1: Nirvana and Pearl Jam and all that stuff in Ragime's machine.

1077
00:53:50,836 --> 00:53:52,996
Speaker 1: So I had all those records and listened to all

1078
00:53:52,996 --> 00:53:55,076
Speaker 1: that stuff. I almost never mentioned that when I talk

1079
00:53:55,316 --> 00:53:56,796
Speaker 1: like this either, which is it's kind of funny. I

1080
00:53:56,796 --> 00:53:58,196
Speaker 1: mean that was actually a big part of my high

1081
00:53:58,196 --> 00:54:01,436
Speaker 1: school was those bands, and I sat listening to those albums.

1082
00:54:01,796 --> 00:54:05,276
Speaker 1: If you like music, you're going to yeah, you have

1083
00:54:05,316 --> 00:54:07,396
Speaker 1: to do. If you're a kid, that would be the

1084
00:54:07,476 --> 00:54:10,396
Speaker 1: rock music of the day when you're growing up. Exactly. Yeah,

1085
00:54:10,476 --> 00:54:13,756
Speaker 1: it seemed like in nineteen ninety. If you said the

1086
00:54:13,796 --> 00:54:16,236
Speaker 1: Beatles did something in nineteen sixtent that seemed like it

1087
00:54:16,276 --> 00:54:20,916
Speaker 1: was fifty years ago. It was only twenty years. It's unbelievable.

1088
00:54:20,956 --> 00:54:22,876
Speaker 1: That's like talking us for talking about now about the

1089
00:54:23,556 --> 00:54:25,716
Speaker 1: records in two thousand and one. I know that seemed

1090
00:54:25,756 --> 00:54:28,196
Speaker 1: like it was five years ago. I don't know why

1091
00:54:28,236 --> 00:54:31,716
Speaker 1: time is so different seeming. I think as you get older,

1092
00:54:31,716 --> 00:54:35,236
Speaker 1: time speeds up. Yeah, and when we're kids, if you know,

1093
00:54:35,316 --> 00:54:37,956
Speaker 1: a year seems like an eternity. Yeah, and now the

1094
00:54:37,996 --> 00:54:41,836
Speaker 1: years just fly by, right right, Yeah, they just fly by.

1095
00:54:42,436 --> 00:54:51,636
Speaker 1: We have a visitor. We didn't know he was sitting down. Yeah,

1096
00:54:52,196 --> 00:55:04,596
Speaker 1: what's going on? Man? Great? You look great. Soon let

1097
00:55:04,716 --> 00:55:07,676
Speaker 1: me come back. We'll have more from Rick Rubin, Jack White,

1098
00:55:07,756 --> 00:55:11,436
Speaker 1: and Neil Ya, plus a special rendition of Jack's new

1099
00:55:11,516 --> 00:55:17,956
Speaker 1: song A Tip from You to Me. We're back with

1100
00:55:17,996 --> 00:55:20,676
Speaker 1: the rest of Rick Rubin's conversation with Jack White and

1101
00:55:20,716 --> 00:55:24,476
Speaker 1: their surprise visit for Neil Young at Shangra La. How

1102
00:55:24,476 --> 00:55:27,396
Speaker 1: cool to see you here. Well, I heard you were here,

1103
00:55:27,476 --> 00:55:29,276
Speaker 1: sit in the middle. Sitting in the middle. Rick told

1104
00:55:29,276 --> 00:55:34,796
Speaker 1: me you were here, and we are cool. That's great.

1105
00:55:34,916 --> 00:55:40,476
Speaker 1: You've been looking around there, haven't been here kind of

1106
00:55:41,156 --> 00:55:43,436
Speaker 1: doing some stuff, you know. Excellent. How has it been

1107
00:55:43,436 --> 00:55:47,756
Speaker 1: going here? It's great? Yeah? We finished, uh what we

1108
00:55:47,836 --> 00:55:51,356
Speaker 1: took us three weeks something like that. I saw the

1109
00:55:51,396 --> 00:55:58,076
Speaker 1: trailer for The Crazy Horse barn Ye that looks really cool. Yeah,

1110
00:55:58,676 --> 00:56:01,796
Speaker 1: it's great. Daryl made a movie about it. It's fun,

1111
00:56:02,396 --> 00:56:04,876
Speaker 1: just great. I mean shit, yeah, the youngest guy in

1112
00:56:04,916 --> 00:56:12,796
Speaker 1: the band is seventy. Fantastic. Well, had a great times.

1113
00:56:12,996 --> 00:56:15,596
Speaker 1: You know, I've been putting on an album, Recince. Everyone

1114
00:56:15,676 --> 00:56:18,396
Speaker 1: keeps asking, you know, these these questions about like, well,

1115
00:56:18,436 --> 00:56:20,396
Speaker 1: so you know where things going to be for you? You

1116
00:56:20,316 --> 00:56:22,476
Speaker 1: You know when you're you know, sixty years old and

1117
00:56:22,676 --> 00:56:26,516
Speaker 1: eighty years old. I just keep saying, like, it's really nice.

1118
00:56:26,916 --> 00:56:29,796
Speaker 1: It's a nice position to be in to have. You know,

1119
00:56:29,876 --> 00:56:34,596
Speaker 1: Bob and Neil and Tom Waits have already proven there's

1120
00:56:34,636 --> 00:56:38,956
Speaker 1: these things that can happen and can continue because I remember,

1121
00:56:39,556 --> 00:56:41,956
Speaker 1: you know, when I was twelve and the Rolling Stones

1122
00:56:41,996 --> 00:56:46,516
Speaker 1: were forty and everyone's like, oh my god, yeah, and

1123
00:56:47,436 --> 00:56:49,276
Speaker 1: it's it's so nice that you guys are able to

1124
00:56:49,276 --> 00:56:51,756
Speaker 1: sort of prove that to what do you think, Rick,

1125
00:56:51,836 --> 00:56:54,036
Speaker 1: what's your opinion about like hip hop guys when when

1126
00:56:54,036 --> 00:56:57,556
Speaker 1: they're eighty, you know, you never know what you people

1127
00:56:57,636 --> 00:57:01,796
Speaker 1: like hearing the songs, you know exactly you're doing something. Yeah,

1128
00:57:01,836 --> 00:57:05,516
Speaker 1: you know, if they got to spirit something exactly. Yeah.

1129
00:57:05,796 --> 00:57:07,956
Speaker 1: You know, what else can we do with it? Right

1130
00:57:07,996 --> 00:57:11,516
Speaker 1: down to it? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, there's really nothing. Everything

1131
00:57:11,516 --> 00:57:14,596
Speaker 1: else fun little relief here and there, But the real

1132
00:57:14,676 --> 00:57:16,636
Speaker 1: deal is to make the music, and you know, whether

1133
00:57:16,836 --> 00:57:19,516
Speaker 1: you know however, you make it. Absolutely. We had a

1134
00:57:19,556 --> 00:57:21,676
Speaker 1: good time. We were in here, had a great time

1135
00:57:21,756 --> 00:57:24,276
Speaker 1: for three weeks. Oh that's great, man, that's great. Yeah,

1136
00:57:24,356 --> 00:57:28,556
Speaker 1: I feel good about it. Did you play acoustic electric both?

1137
00:57:28,716 --> 00:57:31,556
Speaker 1: Or was like I played a little electric? I played

1138
00:57:31,596 --> 00:57:35,076
Speaker 1: electric on one on two songs, oh great? And everything

1139
00:57:35,076 --> 00:57:39,836
Speaker 1: else I played unheard of combinations of instruments. Oh great. Yes,

1140
00:57:40,036 --> 00:57:43,876
Speaker 1: you know has become a kind of a funk pipe

1141
00:57:44,356 --> 00:57:48,476
Speaker 1: pump organ, Oh yeah, pump pump organ, yes, yes, or

1142
00:57:48,556 --> 00:57:54,996
Speaker 1: pump funk. That's what they'll be doing, pump funk. And

1143
00:57:55,476 --> 00:57:58,676
Speaker 1: combine that with a marine band, you know, through an

1144
00:57:58,676 --> 00:58:02,196
Speaker 1: octave divider into a roll bollox. Oh, and combine that

1145
00:58:02,316 --> 00:58:07,796
Speaker 1: with a pump pump funk thing happened? What's cool? We

1146
00:58:07,836 --> 00:58:09,876
Speaker 1: can play stuff this year here if you'd like to

1147
00:58:09,916 --> 00:58:13,156
Speaker 1: hear it, I'd love Yeah, you're then won't we capture

1148
00:58:13,236 --> 00:58:15,076
Speaker 1: you like that? You know you got you got a

1149
00:58:15,116 --> 00:58:19,796
Speaker 1: commitment to Yeah, yeah, it's up to you. It's up

1150
00:58:19,796 --> 00:58:20,996
Speaker 1: to you. But if you want to hear it, you

1151
00:58:20,996 --> 00:58:24,876
Speaker 1: can hear. Yeah. It's fresh. It was a fun experience

1152
00:58:25,436 --> 00:58:28,716
Speaker 1: and and different than certainly for me, different than any

1153
00:58:28,756 --> 00:58:31,756
Speaker 1: than any that I've ever been involved in. Nice. Nice. Yeah.

1154
00:58:31,796 --> 00:58:35,676
Speaker 1: And it's a good vibe here too. Yeah, it's great.

1155
00:58:36,356 --> 00:58:39,476
Speaker 1: Just started off with I was taking a walk in

1156
00:58:39,516 --> 00:58:43,116
Speaker 1: the woods up in Colorado, you know, wintertime, and I

1157
00:58:43,276 --> 00:58:47,076
Speaker 1: was walking along whistling and I heard this. I said,

1158
00:58:47,076 --> 00:58:49,316
Speaker 1: that's the same song I was whistling yesterday. I don't

1159
00:58:49,356 --> 00:58:51,956
Speaker 1: know what it is, you know, So I've got out

1160
00:58:51,996 --> 00:58:54,996
Speaker 1: my flip phone and recorded it. Yeah. Once I've done that,

1161
00:58:55,236 --> 00:58:57,796
Speaker 1: the next day I walked out whistling a whole new song.

1162
00:58:58,396 --> 00:59:01,156
Speaker 1: Oh my god. And I did it like day after

1163
00:59:01,276 --> 00:59:04,556
Speaker 1: day after day. So I had like ten different validies

1164
00:59:05,156 --> 00:59:12,276
Speaker 1: with no instruments. Just yeah, that's great, so cool, don't

1165
00:59:12,316 --> 00:59:15,996
Speaker 1: see the trees and singing into this old you know whatever,

1166
00:59:16,156 --> 00:59:18,556
Speaker 1: what was black thing? Yeah, And and then I put

1167
00:59:18,556 --> 00:59:21,876
Speaker 1: it on my computer and I category I listened to

1168
00:59:21,956 --> 00:59:23,756
Speaker 1: them all and said, well, that's that melody, this is

1169
00:59:23,756 --> 00:59:25,556
Speaker 1: that melody, this is that day and everybody. Because I

1170
00:59:25,596 --> 00:59:27,876
Speaker 1: didn't organize it, yeah, So I got it in there,

1171
00:59:27,876 --> 00:59:30,116
Speaker 1: and then I put them all and I listened to him.

1172
00:59:30,156 --> 00:59:33,836
Speaker 1: I said, ship might be something here, Yeah, you're all

1173
00:59:33,956 --> 00:59:38,356
Speaker 1: here the melodies. Where did this ship come from? I'm

1174
00:59:38,356 --> 00:59:41,556
Speaker 1: telling you, man, that's antenna's. It's like antennas and and

1175
00:59:41,556 --> 00:59:44,396
Speaker 1: and if you're lucky to have a little, tight, little

1176
00:59:44,516 --> 00:59:47,636
Speaker 1: silver antenna for a minute in your life, to just

1177
00:59:47,676 --> 00:59:52,196
Speaker 1: pick up a frequent magic, you know, all we have

1178
00:59:52,236 --> 00:59:54,116
Speaker 1: to do is be there. Yeah. Yeah, you can't ever

1179
00:59:54,156 --> 00:59:57,996
Speaker 1: ignore it for a second. Yeah, you're there. That's your boss.

1180
00:59:58,276 --> 01:00:03,676
Speaker 1: That's true. And it goes fast. Yes, if you don't

1181
01:00:03,676 --> 01:00:07,036
Speaker 1: catch it, it's gone. And it's gone. Yeah. There's you know,

1182
01:00:07,116 --> 01:00:08,636
Speaker 1: so many times where you woke up in the middle

1183
01:00:08,636 --> 01:00:10,516
Speaker 1: of the night and and played something and I'll remember,

1184
01:00:10,756 --> 01:00:13,596
Speaker 1: go back and safe, I'll remember that and never happens. Oh,

1185
01:00:13,716 --> 01:00:16,636
Speaker 1: you gotta jot, you do something, you know, some kind

1186
01:00:16,636 --> 01:00:19,556
Speaker 1: of sound. Yes, So I did that and I wrote

1187
01:00:20,316 --> 01:00:23,316
Speaker 1: I had this combination and stuff, and I was listening

1188
01:00:23,356 --> 01:00:25,756
Speaker 1: to it on the computer and it was like not

1189
01:00:25,876 --> 01:00:29,076
Speaker 1: this last moon, but the moon before that. Right on

1190
01:00:29,116 --> 01:00:35,516
Speaker 1: the moon, I wrote eight songs in two days. Oh great, crazy,

1191
01:00:35,556 --> 01:00:37,556
Speaker 1: And it was cool. And I ended up looking at

1192
01:00:37,596 --> 01:00:40,716
Speaker 1: them on the computer, which I after I spell corrected everything,

1193
01:00:40,836 --> 01:00:43,716
Speaker 1: which is a mass. Yeah, I did it and then

1194
01:00:44,036 --> 01:00:48,596
Speaker 1: and I haven't changed a fucking word, great punctuation mark

1195
01:00:48,796 --> 01:00:53,876
Speaker 1: or greg like direct shot. It just came. That's a

1196
01:00:53,916 --> 01:00:56,116
Speaker 1: good sign already. Yeah, without hearing any of it, that's

1197
01:00:56,116 --> 01:00:59,156
Speaker 1: a good sign. Yeah. I was gonna send you this

1198
01:00:59,436 --> 01:01:03,516
Speaker 1: track the other day. I just got the mixed one recently.

1199
01:01:03,596 --> 01:01:05,596
Speaker 1: This song I thought my maybe you would like it's

1200
01:01:05,596 --> 01:01:08,316
Speaker 1: going to be on this record I'm putting out. Can

1201
01:01:08,316 --> 01:01:12,756
Speaker 1: I play you a an urder? Yeah? Ask yourself if

1202
01:01:12,916 --> 01:01:18,476
Speaker 1: you are happy and then you cease to be. That's

1203
01:01:18,516 --> 01:01:24,796
Speaker 1: a tip from you to me. And it's worked for sure.

1204
01:01:26,476 --> 01:01:38,316
Speaker 1: I don't ask myself for nothing anymore. My piece is

1205
01:01:38,476 --> 01:01:44,516
Speaker 1: freedom from the masses, because the masses cannot see. That's

1206
01:01:44,556 --> 01:01:49,756
Speaker 1: a tip from them to me. And now I know

1207
01:01:50,116 --> 01:02:07,796
Speaker 1: for sure I don't need nobody's help now anymore. Oh

1208
01:02:07,836 --> 01:02:20,876
Speaker 1: will I be alone on the night? Oh? I don't know. Oh, well,

1209
01:02:20,956 --> 01:02:32,276
Speaker 1: lovely me alone tonight? Oh, I don't know. Everywhere he

1210
01:02:32,396 --> 01:02:38,636
Speaker 1: goes someone seems to know the truth about the things

1211
01:02:38,756 --> 01:02:45,996
Speaker 1: he used to do. And that's hard for you. It's

1212
01:02:45,996 --> 01:02:51,316
Speaker 1: so hard to be the one who knows it's true.

1213
01:02:56,916 --> 01:03:03,236
Speaker 1: Walking through the park, my fingers clenchingside. Then I noticed

1214
01:03:03,476 --> 01:03:09,916
Speaker 1: that I'm all alone tonight, and it's hard to tell

1215
01:03:10,036 --> 01:03:15,276
Speaker 1: for sure if I even need to think now anymore?

1216
01:03:25,196 --> 01:03:39,596
Speaker 1: Oh will I be alone to night? Oh? I don't know. Oh,

1217
01:03:39,636 --> 01:03:49,196
Speaker 1: we'll love let me alone to night. Oh, I don't know. Cool.

1218
01:03:49,356 --> 01:03:51,956
Speaker 1: How'd you write it? Thanice? How did it? How did

1219
01:03:51,996 --> 01:03:55,956
Speaker 1: it come to pass? This was um uh as a

1220
01:03:56,076 --> 01:04:00,156
Speaker 1: quote so often um John Stuart mill I said, ask

1221
01:04:00,196 --> 01:04:03,476
Speaker 1: yourself if you're happy, and then you cease to be.

1222
01:04:03,556 --> 01:04:06,156
Speaker 1: Side just said said that, you know, ask yourself if

1223
01:04:06,196 --> 01:04:09,396
Speaker 1: you are happy, and then you'll cease to be, you know,

1224
01:04:09,556 --> 01:04:14,316
Speaker 1: just staying there and then I just ask yourself if

1225
01:04:14,396 --> 01:04:18,356
Speaker 1: you are happy, and then you will cease to be.

1226
01:04:19,356 --> 01:04:21,396
Speaker 1: That's when those moments come where you're like, oh, thanks

1227
01:04:21,396 --> 01:04:23,916
Speaker 1: that happened, Thank you, thank God that happened, and now

1228
01:04:23,956 --> 01:04:27,796
Speaker 1: you can the rest is easier, like school, great man

1229
01:04:28,076 --> 01:04:30,476
Speaker 1: in mind with me some of your things in the

1230
01:04:30,476 --> 01:04:32,556
Speaker 1: past too. So I thought I was gonna send that

1231
01:04:32,596 --> 01:04:34,396
Speaker 1: to you. I'll send to you and get home. You're

1232
01:04:34,396 --> 01:04:39,356
Speaker 1: gonna get back. I love you, know, I love of yours. Um.

1233
01:04:39,516 --> 01:04:41,636
Speaker 1: Besides the record we just did in the boosts. Yeah,

1234
01:04:41,636 --> 01:04:43,316
Speaker 1: there was a mess and that was the best. That

1235
01:04:43,356 --> 01:04:48,676
Speaker 1: was the best. Fund oh man. Yeah, and uh in

1236
01:04:48,796 --> 01:04:51,716
Speaker 1: Jack's booth where you you know, you go and being

1237
01:04:51,756 --> 01:04:54,316
Speaker 1: a fair or something, you put ten cents in or

1238
01:04:54,356 --> 01:04:57,916
Speaker 1: something and in a record or whatever and record a record.

1239
01:04:58,196 --> 01:05:03,876
Speaker 1: Yeah for your girlfriends. Yeah yeah, whatever you Yeah, it's

1240
01:05:03,916 --> 01:05:08,076
Speaker 1: direct to Vinyl, direct to vinyl in the boostyla you

1241
01:05:08,076 --> 01:05:10,156
Speaker 1: can mail it to them. It's funny. We had somebody

1242
01:05:10,196 --> 01:05:12,116
Speaker 1: in the Third Man shop a few weeks back and

1243
01:05:12,156 --> 01:05:13,676
Speaker 1: they were saying, and we were showing them the booth.

1244
01:05:13,716 --> 01:05:15,556
Speaker 1: You're like, yeah, so you can record a record in

1245
01:05:15,596 --> 01:05:18,316
Speaker 1: this booth, and goes, oh wow, that's cool. You know

1246
01:05:18,356 --> 01:05:20,516
Speaker 1: what now to think of it? I saw Neil Young

1247
01:05:20,516 --> 01:05:24,116
Speaker 1: messing around with one of these on TV one. This

1248
01:05:24,196 --> 01:05:29,716
Speaker 1: is the booth. Yeah funny, Yeah, it was great. Oh

1249
01:05:29,796 --> 01:05:32,316
Speaker 1: but what I was gonna say was is that the

1250
01:05:32,436 --> 01:05:35,836
Speaker 1: track you did the Oh Susanna, the version of Oh

1251
01:05:35,876 --> 01:05:39,276
Speaker 1: Susannah you did? I love that man. It really was something.

1252
01:05:39,796 --> 01:05:45,236
Speaker 1: It's got a whole vibe, ton't you. Oginally was the Thorns?

1253
01:05:46,036 --> 01:05:51,396
Speaker 1: Oh really? No Rose okay, yeah, tim Rose. Yeah, so

1254
01:05:51,596 --> 01:05:55,876
Speaker 1: the group that he was from. It was called the Thorns. Okay,

1255
01:05:55,916 --> 01:05:58,236
Speaker 1: it was just part of the Thorns, okay, and the

1256
01:05:58,316 --> 01:06:03,476
Speaker 1: Thorns just folk rock things. So they took classics like

1257
01:06:03,516 --> 01:06:06,836
Speaker 1: that and they did that arrangement. I heard that and

1258
01:06:06,876 --> 01:06:10,436
Speaker 1: I was wow, I check that out now. Yeah, yeah,

1259
01:06:10,476 --> 01:06:13,076
Speaker 1: the Thorns check them out a lot, you know, and

1260
01:06:13,116 --> 01:06:15,676
Speaker 1: then idea, come are on the mountain when she comes

1261
01:06:15,276 --> 01:06:22,316
Speaker 1: actually yeah, yeah, it's a great idea. Yeah. Yeah. There

1262
01:06:22,396 --> 01:06:25,796
Speaker 1: was those wild moments in those sixties of folk bands

1263
01:06:25,796 --> 01:06:28,916
Speaker 1: of the Fairport conventions and the you know, all the

1264
01:06:28,916 --> 01:06:32,276
Speaker 1: different ones that were trying to like final little zone

1265
01:06:32,756 --> 01:06:36,396
Speaker 1: um to uh. But sometimes they were doing this novelty

1266
01:06:36,516 --> 01:06:40,356
Speaker 1: like old uh you know, John Brown would hit the

1267
01:06:40,876 --> 01:06:43,716
Speaker 1: hammer and the blah blah blah and then whatever hammer

1268
01:06:43,716 --> 01:06:45,476
Speaker 1: in the morning and all that stuff and working into

1269
01:06:45,556 --> 01:06:48,516
Speaker 1: like a rock pop song or whatever. But then there's

1270
01:06:49,516 --> 01:06:52,156
Speaker 1: novelty of songs, and then there's ones that actually cracked

1271
01:06:52,196 --> 01:06:55,716
Speaker 1: through that while they actually stumbled out on something amazing. Right,

1272
01:06:55,716 --> 01:06:59,916
Speaker 1: they're like synthesizing two different genres that must have been wild,

1273
01:06:59,916 --> 01:07:02,156
Speaker 1: like when you because you you were there with that

1274
01:07:02,836 --> 01:07:06,716
Speaker 1: with Buffalo Springfield and those early moments of people embracing

1275
01:07:07,236 --> 01:07:10,236
Speaker 1: country and rock and roll and blending them together. Yeh.

1276
01:07:10,956 --> 01:07:14,036
Speaker 1: Was it clear that the folk revival was a revival

1277
01:07:14,196 --> 01:07:18,356
Speaker 1: at the time. No, it was just folk music. It

1278
01:07:18,396 --> 01:07:21,636
Speaker 1: was just folk revival because folk music never really goes anywhere.

1279
01:07:21,676 --> 01:07:25,276
Speaker 1: It is. It's not here and then gone and back.

1280
01:07:25,956 --> 01:07:27,956
Speaker 1: It's just always here. Just depends on if you want

1281
01:07:27,956 --> 01:07:30,796
Speaker 1: to go there. Everybody kind of went there. And then

1282
01:07:30,836 --> 01:07:34,076
Speaker 1: the rock saying was happening. Folk and rock, and it

1283
01:07:34,236 --> 01:07:36,076
Speaker 1: was at a happening time. You could do a lot

1284
01:07:36,076 --> 01:07:40,396
Speaker 1: of stuff. It was cool, cool, be able to you know,

1285
01:07:40,476 --> 01:07:42,116
Speaker 1: I would go and play a little club. And then

1286
01:07:42,116 --> 01:07:53,556
Speaker 1: I read about how it was cliche ridden. Yeah, didn't

1287
01:07:53,596 --> 01:07:55,876
Speaker 1: know about his band that he was in with the

1288
01:07:55,996 --> 01:08:03,436
Speaker 1: Rick James for a minute. Incredible, incredible, amazing an apartment

1289
01:08:03,516 --> 01:08:07,716
Speaker 1: and h on the street just off the Young Street

1290
01:08:07,756 --> 01:08:13,156
Speaker 1: in Toronto. Amazing character. We had a great time. That's

1291
01:08:13,156 --> 01:08:15,556
Speaker 1: what I'm referring to earlier. That's those are those moments

1292
01:08:15,556 --> 01:08:17,756
Speaker 1: where like people are trying to put something together that

1293
01:08:17,796 --> 01:08:21,596
Speaker 1: maybe has like a whole false, fake idea or shitty

1294
01:08:21,636 --> 01:08:23,876
Speaker 1: producer behind it, or some guys like a money guy

1295
01:08:23,956 --> 01:08:27,476
Speaker 1: or something, but there's these amazing moments that that could

1296
01:08:27,476 --> 01:08:29,996
Speaker 1: have turned into the greatest band of all time? Who

1297
01:08:30,036 --> 01:08:34,396
Speaker 1: knows who knows right? And we you know, we tried

1298
01:08:34,956 --> 01:08:37,596
Speaker 1: what we could. We got busted for Jett was a

1299
01:08:37,676 --> 01:08:44,236
Speaker 1: draft and uh then our manager odeed. He was on

1300
01:08:44,316 --> 01:08:48,196
Speaker 1: harow and he odeed. So what happened next? How how

1301
01:08:48,236 --> 01:08:50,196
Speaker 1: long was that period after that finished where we were like,

1302
01:08:50,236 --> 01:08:53,836
Speaker 1: didn't know what to do next? Months or so were springfield?

1303
01:08:53,916 --> 01:08:56,596
Speaker 1: You know, we thought Bruce Palmer and I from the

1304
01:08:56,596 --> 01:09:02,596
Speaker 1: Minor Birds went to went south, still going south. Minor

1305
01:09:02,596 --> 01:09:09,716
Speaker 1: Birds flew south? Yeah? Shit, should we play? Oh man?

1306
01:09:09,836 --> 01:09:14,316
Speaker 1: But yeah, let's play. Are you up for an entire experience?

1307
01:09:14,996 --> 01:09:24,116
Speaker 1: Of course, let's play? You man? Wow? For real? For real? Congrats?

1308
01:09:24,116 --> 01:09:28,076
Speaker 1: Great great songs and great tones. And the vibe is great,

1309
01:09:28,116 --> 01:09:30,756
Speaker 1: and it's it's different. It's like it sounds it sounds

1310
01:09:30,796 --> 01:09:35,076
Speaker 1: obviously like him. But yeah, the songs are different. Yeah,

1311
01:09:35,076 --> 01:09:37,036
Speaker 1: but I think it's just the way they were written. Yeah.

1312
01:09:37,076 --> 01:09:39,796
Speaker 1: It has that, um, it has a feeling like you

1313
01:09:39,836 --> 01:09:42,316
Speaker 1: had a melody like you're talking about. If you hadn't

1314
01:09:42,316 --> 01:09:44,436
Speaker 1: said that, I would say maybe you had melodies first

1315
01:09:44,916 --> 01:09:48,356
Speaker 1: and then added added later to So it makes sense.

1316
01:09:50,076 --> 01:09:52,396
Speaker 1: What a trip. It must be nice to have a

1317
01:09:52,396 --> 01:09:55,196
Speaker 1: band of guys like that. You just keep coming around

1318
01:09:55,716 --> 01:09:59,556
Speaker 1: so much. Yeah, you know, they're they're lucky. That's really

1319
01:09:59,596 --> 01:10:01,396
Speaker 1: great time. I know, I know, I don't know if

1320
01:10:01,436 --> 01:10:04,756
Speaker 1: I caught myself very lucky. It's crazy yours awesome, you know,

1321
01:10:04,916 --> 01:10:09,116
Speaker 1: Ralph and Melody and Nails, it's great, awesome. They really

1322
01:10:09,156 --> 01:10:12,076
Speaker 1: he can't help but sound like themselves, you know, like

1323
01:10:12,156 --> 01:10:19,436
Speaker 1: it's it's completely their trip. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're great.

1324
01:10:19,796 --> 01:10:23,796
Speaker 1: They are great. It's amazing stuff. What is that echo

1325
01:10:23,796 --> 01:10:27,676
Speaker 1: on the guitar? Is it also every once in a

1326
01:10:27,676 --> 01:10:34,236
Speaker 1: while analog MXR analog delay? Yeah? Mostly the echo plax

1327
01:10:34,876 --> 01:10:38,596
Speaker 1: I got four different settings for it. How much echo?

1328
01:10:38,796 --> 01:10:43,556
Speaker 1: The sliding bar? It's a quick thing. Oh wait wait yeah,

1329
01:10:43,636 --> 01:10:46,756
Speaker 1: it's the it's the volume of the effects that I

1330
01:10:46,796 --> 01:10:49,596
Speaker 1: have four levels on. It's just a lot of how

1331
01:10:49,676 --> 01:10:52,956
Speaker 1: much how love goes? Yeah? Yeah, I have a lot

1332
01:10:52,956 --> 01:10:58,036
Speaker 1: of fun with that. Ye yeah, oh baby nice? How

1333
01:10:58,036 --> 01:11:00,036
Speaker 1: long is that last track? That's a that's a that's

1334
01:11:00,036 --> 01:11:05,516
Speaker 1: the album closer yea or something like that, something like that. Yeah,

1335
01:11:06,076 --> 01:11:11,036
Speaker 1: you guys continue on cool vibe? No, no, yeah, I

1336
01:11:11,076 --> 01:11:13,996
Speaker 1: think so. Yeah, it's really nice. It's um, it's it's

1337
01:11:14,036 --> 01:11:17,956
Speaker 1: just I'm just devastated. Like how how clean and clear

1338
01:11:18,036 --> 01:11:22,916
Speaker 1: his voice is yea, and how you know at times

1339
01:11:22,916 --> 01:11:25,236
Speaker 1: I wish, I mean, I feel like I can't get

1340
01:11:25,276 --> 01:11:26,796
Speaker 1: as clean as I was when I was in my

1341
01:11:26,836 --> 01:11:31,916
Speaker 1: twenties at times, and trying to. I had that. I

1342
01:11:31,916 --> 01:11:34,316
Speaker 1: worked with Tom Jones on one Little forty five once

1343
01:11:34,356 --> 01:11:36,996
Speaker 1: and he had gave me that same vibe, which is, like, man,

1344
01:11:37,316 --> 01:11:39,716
Speaker 1: it's almost like there's like a water farcet in the

1345
01:11:39,756 --> 01:11:42,756
Speaker 1: back of your throat cleaning off these vote. Jones's voice

1346
01:11:42,836 --> 01:11:46,636
Speaker 1: is unbelievable, creamy, it's easy. Yeah, people take it for granted.

1347
01:11:46,676 --> 01:11:51,916
Speaker 1: I think it's it's it's it's pretty impressive, especially in person. Absolutely,

1348
01:11:51,996 --> 01:11:54,636
Speaker 1: that's how he sounds like he's twenty five years old there. Yeah,

1349
01:11:55,556 --> 01:11:59,676
Speaker 1: I'm vocally on that, you know, so clean, and I've

1350
01:11:59,676 --> 01:12:02,036
Speaker 1: been trying to get into that lately more often too,

1351
01:12:02,076 --> 01:12:05,476
Speaker 1: like finding some songs where I can hold notes longer

1352
01:12:05,476 --> 01:12:07,876
Speaker 1: and exemplify them more. I always feel like I'm not

1353
01:12:07,916 --> 01:12:16,516
Speaker 1: a singer like just a vote yeah, yeah, okay, yeah,

1354
01:12:16,636 --> 01:12:19,996
Speaker 1: just go go yeah, because it's got to be a

1355
01:12:20,116 --> 01:12:22,596
Speaker 1: new area, right right, Who knows what's at the other

1356
01:12:22,716 --> 01:12:25,636
Speaker 1: end of the note, right right right? You could definitely

1357
01:12:25,676 --> 01:12:29,596
Speaker 1: go there. There's also something cool about when you're pushing

1358
01:12:29,636 --> 01:12:34,036
Speaker 1: the boundaries of your ability that sounds really interesting, like

1359
01:12:34,036 --> 01:12:36,356
Speaker 1: when you can, like when you're sing something that you

1360
01:12:36,396 --> 01:12:39,876
Speaker 1: can't really sing, you can you yeah, and you don't

1361
01:12:39,956 --> 01:12:44,636
Speaker 1: really make it, but there's a there's a honesty in that. Yeah,

1362
01:12:44,676 --> 01:12:46,956
Speaker 1: that just feels I think that's why I like the band.

1363
01:12:47,356 --> 01:12:50,716
Speaker 1: The bands back background vocals. They seem like you always

1364
01:12:50,716 --> 01:12:52,756
Speaker 1: be reaching for notes that they can't really hit, and

1365
01:12:52,796 --> 01:12:56,396
Speaker 1: it's yeah, it's great. It's just great the attempt. You

1366
01:12:56,396 --> 01:12:58,476
Speaker 1: can hear the attempt and you and you and you

1367
01:12:58,476 --> 01:13:01,316
Speaker 1: give it a grace. You you allow it. You know,

1368
01:13:01,476 --> 01:13:04,076
Speaker 1: you don't really need it to actually succeed successfully hit

1369
01:13:04,116 --> 01:13:06,316
Speaker 1: that note, and maybe they go past it, like Neil said,

1370
01:13:06,356 --> 01:13:08,756
Speaker 1: but the yeah, there's a beauty to it, right. And

1371
01:13:08,836 --> 01:13:10,956
Speaker 1: if we listen, you know, to the old records that

1372
01:13:10,996 --> 01:13:13,316
Speaker 1: we love, there's a lot of stuff that's out of

1373
01:13:13,316 --> 01:13:15,836
Speaker 1: tune and at a time, all the time, oh god,

1374
01:13:15,916 --> 01:13:19,436
Speaker 1: all the time. Yes. Well, my favorite Neil vocal is

1375
01:13:19,636 --> 01:13:22,436
Speaker 1: you know tonight's tonight, that that tone and then you

1376
01:13:22,476 --> 01:13:25,116
Speaker 1: know he's tired to be asking you know what Mike

1377
01:13:25,196 --> 01:13:27,836
Speaker 1: and he used and what was going on when when

1378
01:13:27,836 --> 01:13:31,396
Speaker 1: we're working before together and it's you know, whatever circumstances

1379
01:13:31,436 --> 01:13:34,236
Speaker 1: around that, the recording in the room, whatever, there's there's

1380
01:13:34,316 --> 01:13:38,796
Speaker 1: there's mistakes, there's feedback, there's all that. Who cares, nobody cares. Yeah,

1381
01:13:38,876 --> 01:13:42,076
Speaker 1: the feelings in there and since, well, it's great to

1382
01:13:42,076 --> 01:13:44,356
Speaker 1: see you Jack, I take off so great to see

1383
01:13:44,356 --> 01:13:48,356
Speaker 1: you too. Great surprise, great woke up this morning. I

1384
01:13:48,396 --> 01:13:50,356
Speaker 1: didn't think I'm gonna be seeing you. How good is

1385
01:13:50,396 --> 01:13:54,916
Speaker 1: this great? Good walk man? Thank you see you late

1386
01:13:54,956 --> 01:13:58,356
Speaker 1: us there have fun I've probably see him in a

1387
01:13:58,396 --> 01:14:02,596
Speaker 1: couple of days. Yeah, yeah, see was he good man?

1388
01:14:02,716 --> 01:14:08,276
Speaker 1: Sounding good? Thank you all right? I mean that was

1389
01:14:08,316 --> 01:14:15,236
Speaker 1: a nice street. Yeah, those are the It's something funny.

1390
01:14:15,516 --> 01:14:18,156
Speaker 1: There's something funny about like I think people said, you know,

1391
01:14:18,196 --> 01:14:22,596
Speaker 1: when you're uh, like when you can afford it, all

1392
01:14:22,596 --> 01:14:24,556
Speaker 1: of a sudden they start giving your free jeans and

1393
01:14:24,956 --> 01:14:27,356
Speaker 1: stuff like that, when when you you know, they didn't

1394
01:14:27,396 --> 01:14:28,716
Speaker 1: give it to you when you couldn't afford it. That's

1395
01:14:28,716 --> 01:14:31,636
Speaker 1: when you needed the free jeans. It's something funny about that.

1396
01:14:31,676 --> 01:14:35,396
Speaker 1: Like when you get into like um to make it short,

1397
01:14:35,476 --> 01:14:39,396
Speaker 1: like show business or something, you know, anything, I's gonna

1398
01:14:39,396 --> 01:14:42,516
Speaker 1: see you or Neel today, I woke up, Yeah, and

1399
01:14:42,516 --> 01:14:43,836
Speaker 1: here you are. And the other day I was in

1400
01:14:43,916 --> 01:14:46,516
Speaker 1: Vegas and next door to my room, Bill Burrow, the comedian,

1401
01:14:46,596 --> 01:14:49,356
Speaker 1: is next door. If I was just a regular jish,

1402
01:14:49,516 --> 01:14:51,236
Speaker 1: I was still doing a pholster. Bill Burro wouldn't be

1403
01:14:51,316 --> 01:14:53,436
Speaker 1: next to me in the hotel room. You know what

1404
01:14:53,476 --> 01:14:56,596
Speaker 1: I mean? Something about you manifest to the universe and

1405
01:14:56,636 --> 01:14:59,396
Speaker 1: somehow it just kind of makes out. You bump into

1406
01:14:59,516 --> 01:15:02,316
Speaker 1: somebody out of a crowd of fifty thousand people, you

1407
01:15:02,356 --> 01:15:04,796
Speaker 1: bump into the one person you were supposed to bump into,

1408
01:15:05,396 --> 01:15:08,636
Speaker 1: and you're like, how could that happen? So cool, it's amazing.

1409
01:15:08,636 --> 01:15:10,356
Speaker 1: It's like the thing to really hold on to, like

1410
01:15:10,396 --> 01:15:13,876
Speaker 1: to stay positive about it, you know, because I also

1411
01:15:13,876 --> 01:15:16,236
Speaker 1: think that we've manifest our fears. You know, we put

1412
01:15:16,276 --> 01:15:19,116
Speaker 1: out what we're afraid of, and they happen. We make

1413
01:15:19,196 --> 01:15:22,556
Speaker 1: them happen because we stress on them so much. Our

1414
01:15:22,596 --> 01:15:26,836
Speaker 1: thoughts really have tremendous power. Yeah, it was great, man.

1415
01:15:26,836 --> 01:15:28,716
Speaker 1: I'm glad you guys played that for me. That's that's

1416
01:15:28,716 --> 01:15:33,876
Speaker 1: a nice treat. Yeah. Tell me about how you're approach

1417
01:15:33,996 --> 01:15:36,836
Speaker 1: to making music from the beginning to now. How has

1418
01:15:36,836 --> 01:15:39,596
Speaker 1: it changed over the course of your life. Some of

1419
01:15:39,596 --> 01:15:41,956
Speaker 1: the stuff is, Um, I'm still making it as hard

1420
01:15:41,996 --> 01:15:44,316
Speaker 1: on myself as possible as I've always done, you know,

1421
01:15:44,396 --> 01:15:47,116
Speaker 1: trying to not take the easy way out, and you know,

1422
01:15:47,356 --> 01:15:49,676
Speaker 1: sitting in there, when I start feeling like it's going well,

1423
01:15:50,556 --> 01:15:53,836
Speaker 1: either I'll either consciously or subconsciously, I'll throw a monkey

1424
01:15:53,836 --> 01:15:57,916
Speaker 1: wrench in the works and make it more difficult. I'm

1425
01:15:57,916 --> 01:16:00,756
Speaker 1: playing a bass part. Oh I've never played fretless bass.

1426
01:16:01,236 --> 01:16:04,676
Speaker 1: Let's try that. That'll that'll be harder, and it is harder,

1427
01:16:04,716 --> 01:16:06,236
Speaker 1: and then you know, you try it, and then now

1428
01:16:06,236 --> 01:16:09,476
Speaker 1: I'm in a place now I'm if it's good, I

1429
01:16:09,516 --> 01:16:11,036
Speaker 1: can be proud of it because I know that it

1430
01:16:11,116 --> 01:16:14,636
Speaker 1: was a more difficult challenge than it was to take

1431
01:16:14,676 --> 01:16:18,356
Speaker 1: the easier way out. So I still do that all

1432
01:16:18,356 --> 01:16:23,356
Speaker 1: the time. And some stuff you realize, like these records

1433
01:16:23,356 --> 01:16:25,036
Speaker 1: I just made recently, and that you get in there like,

1434
01:16:25,036 --> 01:16:29,436
Speaker 1: oh wow, okay, I knew how to get that kickdrum sound,

1435
01:16:30,076 --> 01:16:32,956
Speaker 1: and we did it, and I bought that microphone and

1436
01:16:32,996 --> 01:16:35,116
Speaker 1: I owned the studio and we made it. And then

1437
01:16:35,276 --> 01:16:36,916
Speaker 1: I bought the studio and bought that microphone so I

1438
01:16:36,956 --> 01:16:38,996
Speaker 1: could make that sound. Yeah, and there I did it. Wow,

1439
01:16:39,036 --> 01:16:41,076
Speaker 1: I actually did it. That whole thing worked. Yeah, And

1440
01:16:41,116 --> 01:16:43,956
Speaker 1: it's because I learned that mic works, and when nineteen

1441
01:16:44,036 --> 01:16:46,436
Speaker 1: ninety eight, and then in twenty twelve, I learned that

1442
01:16:46,556 --> 01:16:51,556
Speaker 1: compressor work. And thankfully those things you can hold onto

1443
01:16:51,556 --> 01:16:53,916
Speaker 1: those and you remember them, and they actually can work

1444
01:16:54,236 --> 01:16:56,396
Speaker 1: on a functional level. Like a carpenter would say, yeah,

1445
01:16:56,436 --> 01:16:58,596
Speaker 1: that's the right saw chop, sawtware, the two by four

1446
01:16:58,876 --> 01:17:03,436
Speaker 1: table sawtware, the applywood whatever, these perfunctory things, and that

1447
01:17:03,636 --> 01:17:06,156
Speaker 1: applies to yeah, compression and EQ and these kind of things.

1448
01:17:06,476 --> 01:17:08,516
Speaker 1: Stuff I could care less about. In the nineties and

1449
01:17:08,556 --> 01:17:10,636
Speaker 1: early I didn't care about any I don't want to

1450
01:17:10,636 --> 01:17:12,316
Speaker 1: know the name of that microphone. I don't even want

1451
01:17:12,316 --> 01:17:13,876
Speaker 1: I like the shape of it, don't even tell me

1452
01:17:13,956 --> 01:17:16,396
Speaker 1: the name. I used to be very much about that,

1453
01:17:17,196 --> 01:17:19,796
Speaker 1: but luckily over time I've held on it those and

1454
01:17:19,836 --> 01:17:21,676
Speaker 1: they actually do work. So if you're okay, that's good.

1455
01:17:21,676 --> 01:17:23,956
Speaker 1: At least, at least if the songs are is there

1456
01:17:23,956 --> 01:17:26,436
Speaker 1: a moment where there's no songs there, or I'm trying

1457
01:17:26,436 --> 01:17:28,996
Speaker 1: and there's nothing's coming out, at least I have some

1458
01:17:29,316 --> 01:17:33,116
Speaker 1: sort of workman like hardware store, workman like things that

1459
01:17:33,156 --> 01:17:37,236
Speaker 1: I can accomplish to put to set the table anything

1460
01:17:37,276 --> 01:17:42,596
Speaker 1: different more philosophically or conceptually. That's different than when you

1461
01:17:42,636 --> 01:17:46,916
Speaker 1: were young. Philosophically, um, well, the sad part of the

1462
01:17:46,916 --> 01:17:49,276
Speaker 1: one sad negative thing I don't like about sort of

1463
01:17:50,276 --> 01:17:52,916
Speaker 1: having writing songs when you're more well known to people

1464
01:17:53,436 --> 01:17:55,876
Speaker 1: rather than when you're just by yourself in an attic

1465
01:17:56,036 --> 01:18:00,436
Speaker 1: or garage is that I at times will give up

1466
01:18:00,476 --> 01:18:03,076
Speaker 1: on a line or a title because I don't want

1467
01:18:03,076 --> 01:18:04,516
Speaker 1: to have to talk about it. I don't want to

1468
01:18:04,436 --> 01:18:06,476
Speaker 1: have to answer questions about it. I don't want to

1469
01:18:06,476 --> 01:18:09,196
Speaker 1: have it. Oh they're gonna assume I'm talking about myself,

1470
01:18:09,236 --> 01:18:11,796
Speaker 1: or they're gonna assume I'm talking about my girlfriend or

1471
01:18:11,836 --> 01:18:14,236
Speaker 1: my ex wife or something like that. And it's like,

1472
01:18:14,636 --> 01:18:18,436
Speaker 1: even though I'm not writing like that, they might think that, well,

1473
01:18:18,476 --> 01:18:20,476
Speaker 1: it's not even worth it. Just scratch it off and

1474
01:18:20,556 --> 01:18:23,476
Speaker 1: write something else. And that's a shame because I shouldn't

1475
01:18:23,516 --> 01:18:26,116
Speaker 1: do that and I shouldn't have to do that. But

1476
01:18:26,196 --> 01:18:29,996
Speaker 1: it's just picking your battles. So that's different from when

1477
01:18:30,036 --> 01:18:33,676
Speaker 1: I was younger. That's interesting since it's a shame. Yeah,

1478
01:18:33,716 --> 01:18:37,596
Speaker 1: we're gonna will right now. We have this opportunity. I

1479
01:18:37,636 --> 01:18:42,676
Speaker 1: am going to give you permission going forward that anything

1480
01:18:42,676 --> 01:18:44,796
Speaker 1: that you write that you like, you can say it

1481
01:18:44,836 --> 01:18:47,796
Speaker 1: without ever worrying about having to talk about it. Than

1482
01:18:47,956 --> 01:18:52,516
Speaker 1: you give you that permission. Thank you. Yeah, and you

1483
01:18:52,556 --> 01:18:58,156
Speaker 1: can do it. Problem solved exactly. It's amazing because it

1484
01:18:58,196 --> 01:19:01,396
Speaker 1: really is. It's like these things, these boundaries we put

1485
01:19:01,436 --> 01:19:05,556
Speaker 1: up for ourselves, they really aren't mindsets, you know. Yeah,

1486
01:19:05,756 --> 01:19:08,196
Speaker 1: society goes through different phases too. There's things people are

1487
01:19:08,236 --> 01:19:10,356
Speaker 1: sensitive about right now that they were not sensitive about

1488
01:19:10,356 --> 01:19:13,036
Speaker 1: ten years ago, and things five years from now that

1489
01:19:13,036 --> 01:19:15,476
Speaker 1: we don't know are going to happen. And as we

1490
01:19:15,516 --> 01:19:18,836
Speaker 1: all know, but you if you're lucky enough to be

1491
01:19:19,636 --> 01:19:23,876
Speaker 1: sharing with enough people that it's a topic of possible

1492
01:19:23,916 --> 01:19:27,316
Speaker 1: conversation to interpret the new Neo Young Record and how

1493
01:19:27,316 --> 01:19:30,156
Speaker 1: it relates to Earth and how what way he might

1494
01:19:30,196 --> 01:19:32,836
Speaker 1: be saying, what message he's trying to say. If you're

1495
01:19:32,916 --> 01:19:35,396
Speaker 1: lucky enough that people find irrelevance in what you're doing,

1496
01:19:35,676 --> 01:19:38,796
Speaker 1: part of you owes it to to to be able

1497
01:19:38,836 --> 01:19:42,516
Speaker 1: to stand behind what you're trying to put out in

1498
01:19:42,556 --> 01:19:45,196
Speaker 1: the world. And you know, I was never I've never

1499
01:19:45,236 --> 01:19:46,676
Speaker 1: been a big fan of people who are like, yeah,

1500
01:19:46,676 --> 01:19:48,876
Speaker 1: I don't know what that means. Whatever, Yeah, I don't care.

1501
01:19:49,116 --> 01:19:52,236
Speaker 1: That's a little too easy, like for me not I'm

1502
01:19:52,276 --> 01:19:55,676
Speaker 1: not saying that good art doesn't come from writing abstract things.

1503
01:19:56,116 --> 01:19:59,716
Speaker 1: You know, do you know what it means? I always hope,

1504
01:19:59,756 --> 01:20:02,356
Speaker 1: I always have hopes. I think, I think I can

1505
01:20:02,396 --> 01:20:04,716
Speaker 1: see where I was thinking of this character and what

1506
01:20:04,996 --> 01:20:06,996
Speaker 1: I was attempting to him to try to figure out

1507
01:20:07,036 --> 01:20:09,596
Speaker 1: or him or her. And then I have hopes that

1508
01:20:10,236 --> 01:20:12,876
Speaker 1: this word can be taken three different ways, and I

1509
01:20:12,876 --> 01:20:15,916
Speaker 1: hope maybe people will take multiple paths with it, and

1510
01:20:16,036 --> 01:20:19,116
Speaker 1: multiple different people take different paths with it. Never been

1511
01:20:19,116 --> 01:20:21,356
Speaker 1: excited about. This is what it means, and this is

1512
01:20:21,396 --> 01:20:23,796
Speaker 1: what I want you to think it means. And that's

1513
01:20:23,796 --> 01:20:25,556
Speaker 1: why I'm not the biggest fan of like sort of

1514
01:20:25,596 --> 01:20:28,876
Speaker 1: a lot of modern singer songwriters. This is about me

1515
01:20:28,916 --> 01:20:31,036
Speaker 1: and my boyfriend breaking up, or me and my girlfriend

1516
01:20:31,036 --> 01:20:32,876
Speaker 1: breaking up, and I want you to know about it.

1517
01:20:32,996 --> 01:20:34,996
Speaker 1: And when you sing it, think of me breaking up

1518
01:20:34,996 --> 01:20:36,836
Speaker 1: with my boyfriend. I mean, why would I want to

1519
01:20:36,836 --> 01:20:39,756
Speaker 1: put you through that? You know, well, why should you

1520
01:20:39,836 --> 01:20:46,436
Speaker 1: relive my thing? It's better for me. It's better to

1521
01:20:46,516 --> 01:20:49,596
Speaker 1: find some kind of neutral zone where these are characters

1522
01:20:49,636 --> 01:20:52,396
Speaker 1: that people can multiple people can get multiple ideas from

1523
01:20:53,156 --> 01:20:56,996
Speaker 1: rather than one thing edged in stone? Were lyrics important

1524
01:20:56,996 --> 01:21:00,436
Speaker 1: too from the beginning, Yes, yeah, even as a fan

1525
01:21:00,516 --> 01:21:03,036
Speaker 1: before you, before you made music, the lyrics as well

1526
01:21:03,036 --> 01:21:06,476
Speaker 1: as the music always from the beginning, Yes, And you know,

1527
01:21:06,556 --> 01:21:09,396
Speaker 1: I remember even being a young kid and getting you know,

1528
01:21:09,516 --> 01:21:13,556
Speaker 1: sometimes you would be um hopeful that something had deeper

1529
01:21:13,596 --> 01:21:16,396
Speaker 1: meaning and thoughts they grew up thinking all that that

1530
01:21:16,436 --> 01:21:18,236
Speaker 1: has such a deeper meaning and then finding out an

1531
01:21:18,316 --> 01:21:20,076
Speaker 1: article later like oh no, that was just a little

1532
01:21:20,156 --> 01:21:25,236
Speaker 1: Richard song we copied or something like that, and you're like, oh, well, okay,

1533
01:21:25,396 --> 01:21:26,956
Speaker 1: I still got some meaning on of it. And maybe

1534
01:21:26,996 --> 01:21:28,756
Speaker 1: that's kind of what I'm just saying right now, like

1535
01:21:29,916 --> 01:21:32,716
Speaker 1: your your hope is that people will get deeper meaning

1536
01:21:32,756 --> 01:21:34,596
Speaker 1: on their own if they can, you know, if it

1537
01:21:34,716 --> 01:21:37,956
Speaker 1: succeeds in some way, I feel like there's there's a

1538
01:21:38,036 --> 01:21:40,436
Speaker 1: and tell me this is right. There's always a traditional

1539
01:21:40,676 --> 01:21:44,036
Speaker 1: theme running through your work where it's like feels like

1540
01:21:44,756 --> 01:21:48,796
Speaker 1: it always has historical roots. Is that would you say that?

1541
01:21:48,796 --> 01:21:51,396
Speaker 1: That's first of all, is it accurate from your perspective?

1542
01:21:51,436 --> 01:21:53,516
Speaker 1: And if so, is it on purpose or is it

1543
01:21:53,556 --> 01:21:57,476
Speaker 1: just by loving so much music over the course of

1544
01:21:57,516 --> 01:21:59,716
Speaker 1: your life. Then it happens that way. It's like it's

1545
01:21:59,716 --> 01:22:01,996
Speaker 1: a that's a compliment, you know, that you just gave

1546
01:22:02,036 --> 01:22:04,036
Speaker 1: me in It's a compliment, even if it wasn't true.

1547
01:22:04,156 --> 01:22:06,996
Speaker 1: I think it's a compliment to feel that way. That's

1548
01:22:06,996 --> 01:22:09,356
Speaker 1: how I hear it. I hear it as there's always them.

1549
01:22:09,956 --> 01:22:15,836
Speaker 1: It's it's got roots and I love roots music where

1550
01:22:15,836 --> 01:22:19,196
Speaker 1: it comes from. Well there there's an interesting thing about that.

1551
01:22:19,236 --> 01:22:21,916
Speaker 1: I mean, a lot of the you know, coming up

1552
01:22:21,956 --> 01:22:23,916
Speaker 1: in different rock and rolls, and you talk to other

1553
01:22:23,996 --> 01:22:26,276
Speaker 1: contemporaries and stuff they're working on, and a lot of

1554
01:22:26,316 --> 01:22:30,796
Speaker 1: them artists and writers and guitar players and drummers and stuff.

1555
01:22:30,876 --> 01:22:34,036
Speaker 1: They don't have much depth in their history or love

1556
01:22:34,036 --> 01:22:37,356
Speaker 1: of music or anything, and so what who cares? And

1557
01:22:37,396 --> 01:22:39,316
Speaker 1: then there's people that do. And then there's guys who

1558
01:22:39,316 --> 01:22:43,956
Speaker 1: are like, you know, super nerdy and obscure and way

1559
01:22:43,956 --> 01:22:47,116
Speaker 1: go way too deep, you know, And I have lost

1560
01:22:47,116 --> 01:22:50,076
Speaker 1: the beauty of music because through the minutia of it,

1561
01:22:50,196 --> 01:22:53,276
Speaker 1: you know, I've always try to keep you know, one

1562
01:22:53,476 --> 01:22:56,436
Speaker 1: foot in and out of that world if I can.

1563
01:22:57,076 --> 01:22:58,916
Speaker 1: I like to know a little bit about amplifiers, but

1564
01:22:58,956 --> 01:23:00,876
Speaker 1: not how to fix them. I like to know a

1565
01:23:00,916 --> 01:23:03,876
Speaker 1: little bit about this genre of music, but not enough

1566
01:23:03,876 --> 01:23:05,956
Speaker 1: where it swallows me up and I become obsessed with

1567
01:23:06,076 --> 01:23:09,836
Speaker 1: only that. And so it gets me the ability to

1568
01:23:09,876 --> 01:23:12,596
Speaker 1: do this and that, even engineering and production and stuff.

1569
01:23:12,636 --> 01:23:14,996
Speaker 1: I try not to really get two hands on because

1570
01:23:14,996 --> 01:23:17,116
Speaker 1: I know how I am. I could get in there

1571
01:23:17,196 --> 01:23:20,996
Speaker 1: and become a knob jockey guy who all he does

1572
01:23:21,116 --> 01:23:23,596
Speaker 1: is worry about the levels of compression and stuff, rather

1573
01:23:23,636 --> 01:23:25,876
Speaker 1: than keeping half of my brain in the world being

1574
01:23:25,876 --> 01:23:29,956
Speaker 1: able to create in songs and write and perform them

1575
01:23:29,996 --> 01:23:32,956
Speaker 1: and all that stuff. And it's been a pretty good balance.

1576
01:23:32,956 --> 01:23:34,756
Speaker 1: I've I've kept a pretty good balance over the years

1577
01:23:34,756 --> 01:23:37,756
Speaker 1: of trying not to get too involved in one aspect

1578
01:23:37,796 --> 01:23:39,916
Speaker 1: of it. I get jealous at times where you see

1579
01:23:39,916 --> 01:23:42,076
Speaker 1: being like, oh, wow, he's just a guitar player. That

1580
01:23:42,076 --> 01:23:44,956
Speaker 1: would be nice, or that's just a producer, or just

1581
01:23:44,996 --> 01:23:47,276
Speaker 1: a singer, even though word just a sounds like it's

1582
01:23:47,316 --> 01:23:48,756
Speaker 1: an insult, but it's not. To me. It's like I'm

1583
01:23:48,836 --> 01:23:50,236
Speaker 1: jealous of it because it's like, Wow, it'd be great.

1584
01:23:50,236 --> 01:23:52,476
Speaker 1: You could just concentrate on that one thing. You could

1585
01:23:52,476 --> 01:23:54,916
Speaker 1: get really really good at that. Yeah, you know, if

1586
01:23:54,916 --> 01:23:57,796
Speaker 1: that's your Yeah, if you did one thing. But um,

1587
01:23:58,236 --> 01:23:59,996
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, I'm lucky that my

1588
01:24:00,036 --> 01:24:02,596
Speaker 1: brain wants to be active in these different spots and

1589
01:24:02,916 --> 01:24:05,556
Speaker 1: so I'm happy about it, feel good about it. When

1590
01:24:05,556 --> 01:24:10,036
Speaker 1: did you buy the pressing plant or the Yeah, I

1591
01:24:10,036 --> 01:24:13,836
Speaker 1: started building that in length I think twenty fifteen and

1592
01:24:13,876 --> 01:24:16,596
Speaker 1: then I think it opened in twenty and sixteen. And

1593
01:24:16,716 --> 01:24:19,436
Speaker 1: it's uh, it's wild, it's great. And there was times

1594
01:24:19,436 --> 01:24:21,236
Speaker 1: where I've been like, ah, I shouldn't have done that.

1595
01:24:21,556 --> 01:24:23,436
Speaker 1: There's a lot of work and a lot of like

1596
01:24:24,156 --> 01:24:28,796
Speaker 1: boring economic and you know, making widgets at a factory

1597
01:24:28,836 --> 01:24:31,876
Speaker 1: work and having lots of employees and insurance and all

1598
01:24:31,916 --> 01:24:34,756
Speaker 1: those things that are not that interesting. To tell me

1599
01:24:34,756 --> 01:24:37,236
Speaker 1: about the space. The space and you have how many

1600
01:24:37,276 --> 01:24:39,116
Speaker 1: machines do you have? Um, yeah, I don't know the

1601
01:24:39,156 --> 01:24:41,156
Speaker 1: square footage, but it's pretty giant. It used to be

1602
01:24:41,156 --> 01:24:42,876
Speaker 1: like a parking structure. It used to be where they

1603
01:24:43,036 --> 01:24:45,956
Speaker 1: they made Willie's Jeeps. It was Willie's Jeeps kind of

1604
01:24:45,956 --> 01:24:51,396
Speaker 1: a little assembly place. And we have eight manual machines

1605
01:24:51,476 --> 01:24:55,876
Speaker 1: and I think now coming up on six automatic presses,

1606
01:24:56,956 --> 01:24:59,676
Speaker 1: and we can do about between five and eight thousand

1607
01:25:00,356 --> 01:25:04,596
Speaker 1: records a day, which is great, Yeah, incredible. And the

1608
01:25:04,636 --> 01:25:07,356
Speaker 1: weight period now is you know, eight to ten months

1609
01:25:07,396 --> 01:25:10,436
Speaker 1: for vinyl in the vinyl industry. Yeah, so you know,

1610
01:25:10,516 --> 01:25:13,716
Speaker 1: third Man had a lot to do with this vinal resurgence,

1611
01:25:13,756 --> 01:25:17,276
Speaker 1: making this come to this fruition like this, and right

1612
01:25:17,316 --> 01:25:18,956
Speaker 1: now we're in the mode of, you know, sort of

1613
01:25:18,956 --> 01:25:20,996
Speaker 1: this year has been this last couple of years are

1614
01:25:20,996 --> 01:25:23,876
Speaker 1: like the Taylor Swifts and Paul McCartney's, you know, putting

1615
01:25:23,916 --> 01:25:27,436
Speaker 1: out multiple variants of a record and it's just amazing

1616
01:25:27,436 --> 01:25:29,316
Speaker 1: because it's it's just great. It's it's turning on and

1617
01:25:29,396 --> 01:25:33,916
Speaker 1: yet another generation of kids and teenagers onto this physical format.

1618
01:25:34,316 --> 01:25:37,556
Speaker 1: Are the machines old machines? Um No, they're all brand

1619
01:25:37,556 --> 01:25:40,316
Speaker 1: new and they still they're still being made. When we

1620
01:25:40,356 --> 01:25:43,996
Speaker 1: opened the plant, there were no companies making new vinyl presses.

1621
01:25:44,196 --> 01:25:46,476
Speaker 1: And the first year we opened and started and we

1622
01:25:46,476 --> 01:25:49,836
Speaker 1: were about to start, a couple of companies started up

1623
01:25:50,356 --> 01:25:54,196
Speaker 1: around the world, in Europe and in Canada, and now

1624
01:25:54,236 --> 01:25:57,276
Speaker 1: there are several Now there's five, I think making presses.

1625
01:25:57,436 --> 01:26:00,556
Speaker 1: We're all of the old machines. Do they get scrapped?

1626
01:26:00,596 --> 01:26:01,996
Speaker 1: That was the problem, Like we were about to open

1627
01:26:02,036 --> 01:26:04,276
Speaker 1: a plant and then then the only way you can

1628
01:26:04,436 --> 01:26:07,756
Speaker 1: put presses in was to buy old presses from somebody else,

1629
01:26:08,276 --> 01:26:10,876
Speaker 1: and they're hard to come buy, like hounds teeth, like

1630
01:26:11,196 --> 01:26:15,476
Speaker 1: I need a Usually other giant plants would buy them

1631
01:26:15,516 --> 01:26:17,476
Speaker 1: up if they came available, because you know you're not

1632
01:26:17,556 --> 01:26:19,996
Speaker 1: going to see it again. Yeah, so was it similar

1633
01:26:19,996 --> 01:26:22,956
Speaker 1: to like buying an old mixing desk? Not as peaceful

1634
01:26:23,036 --> 01:26:25,756
Speaker 1: as the mixing desk where you could actually find a

1635
01:26:25,796 --> 01:26:27,836
Speaker 1: few guys to really know how to fix it. It's

1636
01:26:27,876 --> 01:26:30,316
Speaker 1: such a small group of people that know how to

1637
01:26:30,356 --> 01:26:32,676
Speaker 1: work on them. But you know, there's machinists who can

1638
01:26:32,716 --> 01:26:35,356
Speaker 1: work on any kind of machine and stuff. There's those guys.

1639
01:26:35,556 --> 01:26:37,916
Speaker 1: But there was a time when there were many, many

1640
01:26:37,956 --> 01:26:40,756
Speaker 1: of these machines. Oh my god, yes, yeah, so what

1641
01:26:40,876 --> 01:26:44,076
Speaker 1: happened to those? Great question? I think they were junked.

1642
01:26:44,676 --> 01:26:46,956
Speaker 1: You know, it's so wild because you can never get

1643
01:26:46,996 --> 01:26:48,956
Speaker 1: a good square answer about this stuff. I was talking

1644
01:26:48,996 --> 01:26:53,436
Speaker 1: to Martin Scorsese recently about the Technicolor machines. Yeah, well,

1645
01:26:53,716 --> 01:26:55,916
Speaker 1: what happened all those Technicolor machines and heats? Said that

1646
01:26:55,956 --> 01:26:59,756
Speaker 1: they got sold to China and they weren't being used

1647
01:26:59,756 --> 01:27:01,716
Speaker 1: anymore anywhere else, but they were still being used in

1648
01:27:01,716 --> 01:27:03,836
Speaker 1: the film industry in China, so a lot of them

1649
01:27:03,876 --> 01:27:05,636
Speaker 1: went there, but I think a lot of them just

1650
01:27:05,636 --> 01:27:09,716
Speaker 1: get junked. We had talked with Martin mill who runs

1651
01:27:09,756 --> 01:27:13,676
Speaker 1: Beggar's Banquet label in Europe, and he uh was telling

1652
01:27:13,676 --> 01:27:15,236
Speaker 1: me it's interesting thing because we're saying, yeah, we have

1653
01:27:15,316 --> 01:27:16,876
Speaker 1: to wait, you know, eight months now if we want

1654
01:27:16,876 --> 01:27:19,436
Speaker 1: to even at my own plants, I gotta get in line,

1655
01:27:19,756 --> 01:27:22,996
Speaker 1: which is crazy. And he said, yeah, Well, what we'd

1656
01:27:22,996 --> 01:27:24,596
Speaker 1: have in Britain is, you know, we put out a

1657
01:27:24,636 --> 01:27:28,996
Speaker 1: single and by Tuesday we would get that chart number

1658
01:27:29,036 --> 01:27:30,436
Speaker 1: and if it was in the top twenty. If you

1659
01:27:30,516 --> 01:27:32,396
Speaker 1: had a song in the top twenty like he had

1660
01:27:32,396 --> 01:27:35,996
Speaker 1: with Gary Newman and cars and our friends electric and stuff,

1661
01:27:36,196 --> 01:27:38,196
Speaker 1: then you could get on top of the pomps. But

1662
01:27:38,236 --> 01:27:40,756
Speaker 1: that meant you had to have you They would call

1663
01:27:40,796 --> 01:27:43,276
Speaker 1: in an order of twenty five thousand and seven inches

1664
01:27:43,756 --> 01:27:45,956
Speaker 1: that had to be in the stores by Friday morning

1665
01:27:45,996 --> 01:27:48,756
Speaker 1: for the weekend sales. So in two days time they

1666
01:27:48,796 --> 01:27:51,196
Speaker 1: could press twenty five thousand records and have them in

1667
01:27:51,316 --> 01:27:55,556
Speaker 1: stores with record sleeves. Unimaginable at this moment in time,

1668
01:27:56,356 --> 01:27:58,516
Speaker 1: even if there was not a humongous demand that would

1669
01:27:58,516 --> 01:28:00,036
Speaker 1: be very hard to pull off. But they had so

1670
01:28:00,076 --> 01:28:03,756
Speaker 1: many presses and so many plants back then, and are like,

1671
01:28:03,836 --> 01:28:07,476
Speaker 1: it's the vinyl usually available. The pellets, is what it is?

1672
01:28:08,516 --> 01:28:10,916
Speaker 1: I know nothing about it. Tell me it's PBC plastic,

1673
01:28:10,956 --> 01:28:13,316
Speaker 1: the same as in a PBC pipe. Wow. So yeah,

1674
01:28:13,716 --> 01:28:16,876
Speaker 1: so easy to get the materials. It's just the machines,

1675
01:28:17,356 --> 01:28:20,716
Speaker 1: just the machines and the manpower and knowledge to run

1676
01:28:20,796 --> 01:28:23,316
Speaker 1: those machines efficiently. You know, you could turn to a

1677
01:28:23,396 --> 01:28:25,836
Speaker 1: press on and have some guy who knows what he's

1678
01:28:25,836 --> 01:28:29,796
Speaker 1: doing pressing, and that press could break down in six hours.

1679
01:28:30,276 --> 01:28:33,156
Speaker 1: You know something's going wrong. You're using steam and pressure

1680
01:28:33,236 --> 01:28:35,636
Speaker 1: and who knows, there's a bunch of moving parts that

1681
01:28:35,676 --> 01:28:39,276
Speaker 1: can go wrong. Machine it's about the size of a refrigerator,

1682
01:28:39,316 --> 01:28:43,596
Speaker 1: the manual refrigerator laying down, standing up, standing up. Yes,

1683
01:28:43,716 --> 01:28:45,916
Speaker 1: it's an upright machine. Yes. And then they automated are

1684
01:28:45,916 --> 01:28:49,996
Speaker 1: sort of like a giant like car, sized almost wide

1685
01:28:49,996 --> 01:28:53,996
Speaker 1: and tall because they have spaces where the when when

1686
01:28:53,996 --> 01:28:56,436
Speaker 1: the records down pressing, it goes and rests in a yeah,

1687
01:28:56,556 --> 01:29:00,916
Speaker 1: you know, so knowing about supplying demand, we see there's

1688
01:29:01,196 --> 01:29:04,676
Speaker 1: tremendous demand to have these things made yeah, yeah, why

1689
01:29:04,796 --> 01:29:07,236
Speaker 1: have not all the companies who are making all these things,

1690
01:29:07,236 --> 01:29:10,196
Speaker 1: why have they not retooled? And I think it comes

1691
01:29:10,236 --> 01:29:13,556
Speaker 1: down to probably people might guess will be people who

1692
01:29:13,636 --> 01:29:17,276
Speaker 1: are on the boards of those major labels, which I've

1693
01:29:17,396 --> 01:29:20,876
Speaker 1: been pleading to them to be rebuild their pressing plants. Again,

1694
01:29:20,876 --> 01:29:22,436
Speaker 1: I think they really need to do it. It's in

1695
01:29:22,476 --> 01:29:24,236
Speaker 1: their best interest. I think they will make a lot

1696
01:29:24,236 --> 01:29:26,316
Speaker 1: of money doing it and help. There are artists in

1697
01:29:26,316 --> 01:29:28,556
Speaker 1: lots of big ways, But I think what it is

1698
01:29:28,556 --> 01:29:30,076
Speaker 1: it's a little bit in their mind. Like if you

1699
01:29:30,116 --> 01:29:31,276
Speaker 1: were in a board meeting and you want to be

1700
01:29:31,356 --> 01:29:33,556
Speaker 1: the guy to champion this idea we should build a

1701
01:29:33,556 --> 01:29:36,156
Speaker 1: pressing plant, you're taking a big risk of being on

1702
01:29:36,196 --> 01:29:38,636
Speaker 1: a losing team that year if it doesn't work out,

1703
01:29:38,676 --> 01:29:40,796
Speaker 1: and you will lose your job. So I think that's

1704
01:29:40,796 --> 01:29:44,196
Speaker 1: what that's probably the number one problem with corporations is

1705
01:29:44,236 --> 01:29:45,956
Speaker 1: people don't want to be on a losing team and

1706
01:29:46,036 --> 01:29:47,996
Speaker 1: get their evaluation at the end of the year showing

1707
01:29:48,036 --> 01:29:51,996
Speaker 1: you were on team loser and you're gone. So a

1708
01:29:52,396 --> 01:29:54,236
Speaker 1: lot of risks don't get taken luckily, like in a

1709
01:29:54,276 --> 01:29:55,756
Speaker 1: place like third Man, where it's sort of like a

1710
01:29:55,756 --> 01:29:59,036
Speaker 1: sole proprietorship. Yes, we do nothing but take risks all

1711
01:29:59,156 --> 01:30:01,676
Speaker 1: day long. Everything we do is a bad business move,

1712
01:30:02,036 --> 01:30:03,556
Speaker 1: and in the end of the day, somehow it all

1713
01:30:03,596 --> 01:30:06,636
Speaker 1: makes sense and we pay the bills with it somehow

1714
01:30:06,836 --> 01:30:09,996
Speaker 1: based on that bad business move and based on working now,

1715
01:30:10,796 --> 01:30:16,756
Speaker 1: is there no feeling that you can expand drastically and

1716
01:30:16,996 --> 01:30:19,956
Speaker 1: open up pressing plants all over the country and you

1717
01:30:20,076 --> 01:30:22,916
Speaker 1: do what they're not doing. I'm in a debate about that.

1718
01:30:22,956 --> 01:30:24,876
Speaker 1: I mean, right now, at the pace that we're at,

1719
01:30:24,916 --> 01:30:28,396
Speaker 1: with twelve presses that I have, I'm looking at right

1720
01:30:28,396 --> 01:30:30,796
Speaker 1: now probably another eight years before I get all my

1721
01:30:30,876 --> 01:30:35,196
Speaker 1: money back that I put into this place. So every

1722
01:30:35,196 --> 01:30:36,756
Speaker 1: time you get a dollar, you kind of want to

1723
01:30:36,756 --> 01:30:39,516
Speaker 1: put that dollar back into the plant and buy another press.

1724
01:30:39,956 --> 01:30:42,996
Speaker 1: But then it just keeps extending this time period of

1725
01:30:43,356 --> 01:30:46,596
Speaker 1: actually breaking even which I guess who cares on one

1726
01:30:46,596 --> 01:30:48,716
Speaker 1: side of my brand, who cares another side? Kind of

1727
01:30:48,716 --> 01:30:50,996
Speaker 1: feels negative. But I think what a lot of people

1728
01:30:51,076 --> 01:30:52,676
Speaker 1: do is not what I'm doing, where I use my

1729
01:30:52,716 --> 01:30:54,676
Speaker 1: own money to fund all this stuff. They would really

1730
01:30:54,676 --> 01:30:56,836
Speaker 1: just get a lot of other investors and I would

1731
01:30:56,876 --> 01:30:58,996
Speaker 1: just own ten percent of the company or something, and

1732
01:30:59,036 --> 01:31:01,116
Speaker 1: they would all get the profits or something like that.

1733
01:31:01,396 --> 01:31:03,476
Speaker 1: But I don't think it's not that kind of a

1734
01:31:03,476 --> 01:31:07,036
Speaker 1: profitable business, you know, where we're selling pizza or T

1735
01:31:07,196 --> 01:31:09,596
Speaker 1: shirts or something, whereas it easy to sell to some. Yeah,

1736
01:31:09,596 --> 01:31:12,796
Speaker 1: this is something that you're an advocate for. It's different.

1737
01:31:12,836 --> 01:31:15,676
Speaker 1: It's like it's got it's not it's not the beauty

1738
01:31:15,756 --> 01:31:18,116
Speaker 1: is it's not pizza, you know what I'm saying. It's

1739
01:31:18,196 --> 01:31:23,156
Speaker 1: like it's pretty. It's an interesting possibility. Yeah. Interesting. I

1740
01:31:23,196 --> 01:31:25,556
Speaker 1: mean I would and I would like it, and I've

1741
01:31:25,756 --> 01:31:28,756
Speaker 1: I've thought about other things about maybe there's a secondary

1742
01:31:28,836 --> 01:31:31,796
Speaker 1: thing where I I do that with investors and build

1743
01:31:31,796 --> 01:31:34,196
Speaker 1: those plants under and a different company or a different

1744
01:31:34,236 --> 01:31:37,356
Speaker 1: wing of third managements. My first hope would be right now,

1745
01:31:37,396 --> 01:31:39,156
Speaker 1: the people who have a billion dollars where it's just

1746
01:31:39,156 --> 01:31:40,796
Speaker 1: nothing to them to build a plant. I mean, they

1747
01:31:40,836 --> 01:31:43,676
Speaker 1: should just do it. So, but who knows, we'll see

1748
01:31:43,836 --> 01:31:47,396
Speaker 1: super cool nice. Yeah, it's super cool. I'm so glad

1749
01:31:47,396 --> 01:31:49,756
Speaker 1: to did it. Well. It was great man, Rick, thanks

1750
01:31:49,796 --> 01:31:52,396
Speaker 1: for talking my pleasure. Thank you for doing this. This

1751
01:31:52,516 --> 01:31:57,836
Speaker 1: is great. Thanks to Jack White for coming to Schangulad

1752
01:31:57,876 --> 01:32:00,356
Speaker 1: to hang with Rick, and to Neil Young for stopping

1753
01:32:00,396 --> 01:32:03,396
Speaker 1: by as well. You can hear Jack White's latest album,

1754
01:32:03,716 --> 01:32:06,556
Speaker 1: Entering Heaven Alive, along with all of our favorite songs

1755
01:32:06,596 --> 01:32:09,036
Speaker 1: from him, The White Stripes, and a sampling of his

1756
01:32:09,196 --> 01:32:13,316
Speaker 1: many side projects at broken Record podcast dot com. Also

1757
01:32:13,356 --> 01:32:15,636
Speaker 1: be on the lookout for details on Neil Young's new

1758
01:32:15,636 --> 01:32:20,116
Speaker 1: album with Crazyhorse, produced by Rick Rubin very soon. Be

1759
01:32:20,156 --> 01:32:22,596
Speaker 1: sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot

1760
01:32:22,596 --> 01:32:25,516
Speaker 1: com slash Broken Record Podcast, where we can find all

1761
01:32:25,556 --> 01:32:28,316
Speaker 1: of our new episodes. You can follow us on Twitter

1762
01:32:28,396 --> 01:32:31,716
Speaker 1: at broken Record. Broken Record is produced help from Lea Rose,

1763
01:32:31,916 --> 01:32:36,596
Speaker 1: Jason Gambrel, Ventaliday, Eric Sandler, and Jennifer Sanchez, with engineering

1764
01:32:36,636 --> 01:32:40,276
Speaker 1: help from Nick Chaffin. Our executive producer is Mia Lobell.

1765
01:32:41,116 --> 01:32:44,316
Speaker 1: Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you

1766
01:32:44,356 --> 01:32:47,076
Speaker 1: like this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to

1767
01:32:47,196 --> 01:32:51,116
Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers

1768
01:32:51,116 --> 01:32:54,796
Speaker 1: bonus content and uninterrupted ad free listening for four ninety

1769
01:32:54,836 --> 01:32:58,756
Speaker 1: nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions,

1770
01:32:59,436 --> 01:33:01,876
Speaker 1: and if you like the show, please remember to share, rate,

1771
01:33:01,876 --> 01:33:04,596
Speaker 1: and review us on your podcast app Our theme musics

1772
01:33:04,596 --> 01:33:09,716
Speaker 1: by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond,