1 00:00:01,240 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: Hey guys, I'm Kaylie Shore and this is too much 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: to say it out you. Okay, So this is part 3 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 1: two of true Crime Christmas. Um, and I mean true 4 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: crime is in the uh TikTok thing where it's like 5 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: her head was cut off, her legs were cut it off. 6 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: I don't know if anybody's seen that, but if you have, 7 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 1: it's funny. That's all the kind of true crime I'm 8 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: talking about this week, um or in general, I kind 9 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: of want to focus on some more. It's like just sheer, 10 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:45,559 Speaker 1: pure evil and violence is like rather boring. It's like, 11 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:48,280 Speaker 1: you know, if it's just a serial killer who just 12 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: cuts people's heads off, it's like, I mean, not like 13 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 1: it's entertainment. But I kind of, you know, I struggle 14 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: with the concept of true crime because it shouldn't be 15 00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: entertainment to you know, hear about people being murdered. However, 16 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: this one is something I'm very passionate about. And um, 17 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I guess you could consider them serial 18 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: killers because I think, um, five hundred thousand people have 19 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: died as a result of what they've done. But it's 20 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:15,679 Speaker 1: very educational. It's important to know and um, it helps 21 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 1: you understand the extent of the opioid epidemics. So let's 22 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: get into true crime Christmas Part two, The Empire Oxyconton Belt. 23 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: So starting at the very beginning, UM are there. Raymond 24 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: and Mortimer Sackler are three brothers and they all got 25 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: into the like into the pharmaceutical world, UM. But they 26 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: were originally born with no money. Their parents were Jewish immigrants. 27 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: They lived in New York City and their dad had 28 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: some concept that they had to be doctors. So they 29 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: all became doctors UM, and they went and worked at 30 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: the same psychiatric hospital together. Now, to give credit where 31 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: credit is due, they were both really instrumental in treating 32 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: UM different forms of mental illness. At that time when 33 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: lobotomies and elect dshock therapy were just like people's first 34 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: method of action. They started giving UM people with these 35 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 1: different diseases like schizophrenia, They started giving them histamans, which 36 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: are rather safe drug and it just saved a lot 37 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: of people from getting their heads drilled. So that was 38 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: where they kind of earned their reputation and learned about 39 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: being doctors. So after a good bit of time, they 40 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 1: were very, very driven and very motivated, and Arthur was 41 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: widely regarded as the patriarch. I mean he kind of 42 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 1: bossed around his brothers. He was kind of the final 43 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: say on whatever the family was doing. It was very 44 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: kind of like he was the president of the Sackler family. 45 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 1: So in nineteen fifty two, um Mortimer bought a company 46 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: called Purdue Pharma and they mostly dealt in laxatives and 47 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: ear wax remover. It was not a very glamorous company. 48 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,519 Speaker 1: And um Arthur started this thing in nineteen sixty called 49 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: the Medical Tribune, which sounds like it would be a 50 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,359 Speaker 1: you know, like a scientific American American kind of thing, right, 51 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: like it would be like a magazine about medicine. But 52 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: what it really was was um a pharmaceutical advertising direct 53 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: to doctors like catalog almost so allegedly it reached almost 54 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: a million doctors in twenty different countries and it was 55 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 1: kind of the be all end all for learning about 56 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: new medicine. But the problem is people were paying for 57 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: that information. So the information you're getting to educate yourself 58 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: as a doctor about this prescription drug is the only 59 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: thing you're getting is from people who made it. There's 60 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: no non biased sources. And a journalist at some point 61 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: like dove into this because They were marketing a drug 62 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: called Librium, which is a benzo diazepine I always struggle 63 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: without work, but it's a similar to valium, and Arthur 64 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: was really instrumental in marketing that through the Medical Tribune 65 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: and um he uh. This journalist like went through stuff 66 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: in the Medical Tribune and there was an advertisement and 67 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: it had all these different doctors business cards on it, 68 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: and it was like, these are doctors who approve of 69 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 1: this drug, and you should use it because look at 70 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: all these other doctors who were doing it. This is trusted. 71 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 1: And the journalists like, well, I'm just gonna like, look 72 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: these people up, I'm gonna call them. And none of 73 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 1: them were real people. They were just fucking totally fake 74 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: business cards that were used purely as advertisement, and like, 75 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: I don't think there's any rules against that because it's 76 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 1: an advertisement and there's probably really fine print or whatever, 77 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: but like, they just sucked. There was a lot of 78 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: drama with Arthur Sackler as well. Um. One of the 79 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: most bizarre facts about his personal life was he um, 80 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: they were at one time three Mrs Arkler Sacklers Arthur 81 00:04:56,040 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 1: Sacklers hanging around the world. One was his ex wife 82 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: who he maintained a very very probably uncomfortably close relationship 83 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: with for the duration of his life. Um, she kept 84 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: his last name, so that's one Mrs Arthur Sackler. And 85 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 1: then he's at this point currently married to his second wife, 86 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: who is the second Mrs Arthur Sackler, but then he's 87 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,279 Speaker 1: cheating on her with a third woman who he would 88 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,039 Speaker 1: introduce ad events as his wife, and he made her 89 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: legally change her name to Mrs Arthur Sackler, so she 90 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: literally had their last name, and he's still married to 91 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: the other woman. And as opposed to just divorcing or whatever, 92 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: song he didn't have the money to do it. It 93 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 1: makes no sense. It's really weird. But it connects to 94 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 1: the Sackler just obsession with putting their name on everything. 95 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 1: And so the whole family, Arthur, Mortimer and Raymond all 96 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: wanted to be involved in the arts and they, you know, 97 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: call it philanthropy. And I just don't think that fucking counts. Like, yes, 98 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: donating cool ship to museums like is it's just like, Okay, 99 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: you're rich, that's that's a cool thing to do with 100 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 1: your money, but it's not really a charity Like I mean, yeah, 101 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: like kids are going there on field trips. But if 102 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: you want to actually do therapy or like um charity, 103 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: then invest in like mental health programs or like outreach 104 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: or you know St. Jude's Children's cancer. Everybody can stand 105 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,359 Speaker 1: against children's cancer. It's just like you're not really a 106 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 1: charity philanthropist if all you're doing is buying cool art 107 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: and then trying to get on the board of the 108 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 1: Met Museum and just all this ship. So they're really 109 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: obsessed with it, and they would like frequently like have 110 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 1: these really intense contracts to get people after making a 111 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: large donation, like to get a museum to put their 112 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:45,359 Speaker 1: name on it. They also had their name on Columbia University, 113 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 1: and none of them went to Columbia, Harvard, Yale, all 114 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,239 Speaker 1: of this stuff. They had their name everywhere, the Sackler 115 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 1: Waiting in the Sackler Gallery, the Sacular Collection, and they 116 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: even had their name on this thing in the Met 117 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: called the Temple of Dender denjured Gender. I don't know 118 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: it's Egyptian, but um it's literally like an ancient Egyptian 119 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: temple that they transported. And he was obsessed with Chinese art. 120 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: Um Arthur was, and like that was one of the 121 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: main things that they were donating was, um, this art 122 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 1: he was collecting, and like it got to the point 123 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: where his house, which was very large, was just like 124 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 1: completely full of all this Chinese furniture and all this 125 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: art and he just spent so much money on it, 126 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: and uh, it was kind of became an obsession and 127 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: impeded on his relationships and his marriage and it was 128 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: just very weird. So they were big socialites and um, 129 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: they were always you know, going to these benefits and 130 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah, and nobody knew what they did 131 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: for work. They were very bizarre. But like they wouldn't 132 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: tell people. They wanted their name to be separate from 133 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: the pharmaceutical stuff because they and that's just like admission 134 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 1: of guilt, right is not wanting people to know that 135 00:07:55,640 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: feels pretty you know, simple. Um. But they were really 136 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: obsessed with their public image because of that, and super secretive. 137 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: And one of the craziest things that came out of 138 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: all of this was um for the first time in 139 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: Patrick around and Keith's book Empire of Pain, which is 140 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: where a lot of my um My facts and sources 141 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: are coming from out I'm going to link some articles. 142 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: But if you're interested in this empire of pain is 143 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: absolutely insane. Um. But he uncovered this fact that Mortimer's 144 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: son Robert, had committed suicide and the family had cut 145 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,319 Speaker 1: it out like um, covered it up. So this happened 146 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy as they're building their empire. I mean, 147 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: they're really like into the social scene. They're very wealthy 148 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: at this point. Um. And this is according to the 149 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: New York Post Um and the Empire Pain Book. But 150 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: on the morning of July, a deeply traveled Robert Mortimer 151 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: Sackler somehow made his way from his apartment on East 152 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:01,199 Speaker 1: sixty four to his mother's home on East eighty sixth Street. Bobby, 153 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: as he was known to his family, had just turned 154 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: twenty four years old and one was one of the 155 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 1: heirs to the Sackler drug empire. He was high on 156 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: heroin when this happened. He had been a heroin addict 157 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: and he wanted his um. He wanted money from his mother. 158 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: So this was all because of his heroin addiction. So 159 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: when he arrived in the lobby of his mother's building 160 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: on that humid Saturday morning, Bobby fought with the elevator operator. 161 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: He barged into his mother's apartment, where he could be 162 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,959 Speaker 1: heard arguing and demanding money. Moments later, he broke a 163 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: window and plunged to his death. Bobby Sackler's tragic story 164 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 1: has been buried for more than forty years. There are 165 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 1: no accounts of his suicide in newspapers and no public 166 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: photographs of the young heir. His drug adult life was 167 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: an inconvenient truth and a huge embarrassment for a family 168 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: who sold drugs, and they like completely covered up like 169 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,679 Speaker 1: there was no like I don't even think there was 170 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: a service. I mean, another disclaimer that's probably put at 171 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: the beginning of these episodes is like I have fact 172 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: checked to the best of my ability it I you know, 173 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: read the sources I'm sending. UM I'm going to put 174 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 1: it in the description of this because they have fact 175 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: checked a lot more than I have. But it's absolutely 176 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: crazy and so at the same time that all of 177 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 1: this is happening, Arthur has a medical tribune he's doing 178 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: like he's now in the advert Pharmaceutical Advertising Hall of 179 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 1: Fame something like that. But he was a very big 180 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:31,679 Speaker 1: deal and like basically pioneered direct to dr marketing with 181 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 1: UM pharmaceutical drugs. So at the same time he starts 182 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:37,839 Speaker 1: this thing called I m S, which is a data 183 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: company and you should remember this because it's going to 184 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: come back up later. But basically, it collected all of 185 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: this data about where a certain drug was being prescribed, 186 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 1: was it being prescribed to veterans, was it being just 187 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:54,959 Speaker 1: prescribed to housewives, what was the age of the demographic 188 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: in the areas, And it really was able to figure 189 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: out who you're getting the drugs too, and so that 190 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 1: was a very big deal and ends up being a 191 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: very large part of the story. So we're gonna take 192 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 1: a quick break and we'll be right back, and we 193 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:24,239 Speaker 1: are back. Um, okay, this we're gonna talk about oxyconton's 194 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 1: inception and how it started. So basically, Perdue Format had 195 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: a drug called ms content, which is continual release morphine, 196 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 1: and it was used almost exclusively for canservations and near 197 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: death patients. So there wasn't a lot of studies done 198 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 1: as to how addicting it was, because if you have 199 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: three weeks left to live, it really you're not You 200 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 1: don't have enough time to get addicted to something, and 201 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 1: it makes you, like the use of some opiates is 202 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 1: very important, especially in those situations because those people are 203 00:11:55,880 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: in excruciating pain. Um. But the realm is when it's 204 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,079 Speaker 1: the same thing that's prescribed really a broken foot, because 205 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: not the same ship. So as MS Cotton was they 206 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 1: So the way that drugs work is they have a 207 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: patent for a certain amount of years and then after 208 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 1: that patent you can uh sell jeneric drugs. So all 209 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: of the medicines that I take every day have been 210 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: on the market long enough that they have the generic versions, 211 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: which are significantly cheaper, and it's really great for everybody 212 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: when that happens. So they were running out of time 213 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 1: on their patent of MS Cotton and you know they 214 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: were they weren't going to be as cheap as the 215 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: generic ones. That's just how that works. So they were 216 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 1: trying to figure out a way that they could find 217 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: something that would be cheaper. And so there was this 218 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: old opioid that was used in the early nineteen hundreds 219 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:53,959 Speaker 1: called oxycodone and Cath Sackler or Cathy, it's spelled k T. 220 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: I don't know who would do that to her but 221 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: her parents, but very difficult um to remember how to 222 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: not but she came up with this idea, and she 223 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: was like, Hey, there's this thing called oxycodon and nobody's 224 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 1: using it, and uh, it's also used in drugs like 225 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:15,559 Speaker 1: parakoset and roxy codon um and it controls pain for 226 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: up to six hours. But the difference between the regular 227 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: oxycode on that was like being used and oxyconton is 228 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: the same thing that was an M. S. Conton. So M. S. 229 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: Conton was continuous morphine so you don't have to be 230 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: on a morphine drip, and had a coating that would 231 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 1: make it last for twelve hours. So they took that 232 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: coding and put oxycode on in it. So it was 233 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:42,079 Speaker 1: very very similar to M. S. Conton. It's just they 234 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: needed something new to patent, and so they said that 235 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: the drug would last twelve hours, which was twice as 236 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: long as generics and um definitely at the high end 237 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: of M. S. Conton's range. So it came out and 238 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: everyone was like, wow, this is so much better UM. 239 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: But they also theorized the twelve hour thing and it 240 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 1: was quite accurate. So their main argument was one day 241 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: was released paining for twelve hours, more than twice as 242 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: long as jan or medications, and so patients would no 243 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:11,679 Speaker 1: longer have to wake up in the middle of the 244 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: night to take their pills, and one oxy cotton tablet 245 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: in the morning and one before bed would provide a 246 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: quote unquote smooth and sustained pain control all day and 247 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: all night. And you know, if you're living with excruciating 248 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: pain as a doctor, you're like, wow, okay, So they 249 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: don't have to wake up in the middle of the 250 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: night in pain needing to take another pill. They can 251 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: just take one in the morning and take one before bed. 252 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:38,239 Speaker 1: And it's you know, it's easy, busy, all done. But um, 253 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: here's the here's where it gets funky. So they were 254 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: at this time that this was created, which was mid eighties. 255 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: Um it debuted on the market in nine but um, 256 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: they were conducting at least a half dozen clinical trials 257 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:58,359 Speaker 1: according to the company's FDA application, And their FDA application 258 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: got pushed through so quickly, like so much faster than 259 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: any other drug. And it was because of this guy 260 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: Curtis right, who was um really high up at the 261 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 1: f d A, and he led the medical review and 262 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 1: approved the label that went on it, which said that like, 263 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: it may be less addictive than other opioids, and it 264 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 1: wasn't there. There was no proof, there were no studies done. Um. 265 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: It just they got that just by saying it. And 266 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: UM spoiler alert. But Curtis right. Within two years of approving, 267 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 1: label went to work for fucking Purdue. So you make 268 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: a lot more money in the private sector than you 269 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: do working for the government. And this really standard for 270 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: like U s. Attorney generals, UM went to work for Purdue. 271 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: All of these people in government that they met, and 272 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: it's like you create your buddies and they're like, oh, 273 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: we're gonna be nice to Purdue because they'll hire me 274 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: and pay me, you know, a million and a half 275 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: dollars a year. During the trials, um they did. UM. 276 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: Study after study, many patients given oxycont in every twelve 277 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: hours would ask for more medication before their next scheduled dose. 278 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: For example, in one study of a hundred and sixty 279 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: four cancer patients, one third of those given oxycont and 280 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: dropped out because they found the treatment quote unquote ineffective. 281 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: And this was an FDA analysis, so it's not like 282 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: the FDA didn't have access to this information. Researchers then 283 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 1: changed the rules of the study to allow patients to 284 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: take supplemental pain killers known as quote unquote rescue medication. 285 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: In between twelve hour doses of oxycon. You will find 286 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: that there are a lot of there's a lot of 287 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 1: verbiage that party pharma and their salespeople would use that 288 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: makes things sound a lot better than they are, and 289 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: so I will say rescue medication is one of them. 290 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: And another study of eighty seven conservations, rescue was used 291 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: frequently in most of the patients and resorted to it 292 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 1: at some point in the study. According to a journal 293 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: article detailing the clinical trial, like what the funk? Right? 294 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 1: So they were selling it as like something that you 295 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,160 Speaker 1: only have to take twice a day, but of this 296 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: study showed that people needed it more than then. And 297 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:19,639 Speaker 1: it's like an extended release drug, and so you like, 298 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 1: you take it's hard because you're taking more of it, 299 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:25,640 Speaker 1: but it's still only lasting eight hours. So you have 300 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: that gap between eight hours and twelve hours where you're 301 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 1: in pain. So you're gonna take it again, and then 302 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: you already have a ton in your system because it's 303 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: extended release. I mean, we take another pill on top 304 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 1: of it. You just took double the amount, and it's 305 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:43,199 Speaker 1: just crazy. So that was kind of how it got approved, 306 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: and they hired pretty Pharmaceuticals hired six salespeople to go 307 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 1: out and market this drug. They had no medical training 308 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 1: or pharmaceutical degree. They had literally no no training other 309 00:17:57,760 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: than being like the hot popular kids in high school 310 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 1: who were just friendly, like your job was to be 311 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 1: a salesperson in the same way that somebody who works 312 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: in retail was, and you didn't have to have any experience. 313 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: It was literally just hot people selling you drugs. So 314 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: they their entire job was to coax the prescriber to 315 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 1: prescribe differently. So they're going in as uneducated people. The 316 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 1: only thing they know about drugs is what they're being 317 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 1: told by their employer who's trying to make money. And 318 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: these inexperienced people are going in and talking to doctors 319 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: and giving them advice and it's just absolutely crazy. And 320 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 1: this still of you know, practice today, however, it's just 321 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:37,120 Speaker 1: not nearly as I mean, party like one since all 322 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 1: came out. There's stricter rules and all that. But their main, uh, 323 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:46,439 Speaker 1: their main stuff was twelve hours up the dosage, not 324 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:50,640 Speaker 1: the frequency. So they wanted they made more money off 325 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 1: of higher dosages because uh, eighty milligram pill costs more 326 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: than a forty mill gram pill, and so if everybody's 327 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,159 Speaker 1: up in their dosage and boom, there you go. Um, 328 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: so they up to the dosage, not the frequency. They 329 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:07,199 Speaker 1: would call it, individualize the dosage. They handed out a 330 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 1: bunch of free samples encourage prescriptions for moderate issues, so 331 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: times when people might have just had like they also 332 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,439 Speaker 1: have a thing that's like tylenol encoding, which is a 333 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:19,920 Speaker 1: very very very small amount of an opioid, and that's 334 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: like what would normally go to somebody with minor pain, 335 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:26,120 Speaker 1: like back pain after an injury, whatever, like stuff that's 336 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: very very painful and they need to manage. They did 337 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,439 Speaker 1: not need to be taking a end of life like 338 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:37,120 Speaker 1: morphine druck, which is essentially what this was, especially because 339 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:41,679 Speaker 1: people build up a tolerance and got really really like 340 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: had to keep up in their dosage, and you know 341 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: that you try to find the right amount of dosage 342 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 1: for you with any medication, but this was only going 343 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 1: up so um, they like it was all based on 344 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:01,880 Speaker 1: dollar value. And then the things that they said were um, 345 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,440 Speaker 1: war on pain. And this is a direct quote from 346 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 1: part to avoid words like powerful, which may make people 347 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: think the drug is dangerous and reserved for severe pain. 348 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: End quote, begin quote, it is important that we be 349 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: careful not to change the perception of physicians. They totally 350 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 1: allowed it to be like they didn't. So what they 351 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: didn't want to change the perceptions of was doctors thought 352 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: it was weaker than morphine, and so like morphine, if 353 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: you said that in the medical community at that point, 354 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 1: they'd be like, whoa, that's for people who are dying, 355 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: Like you don't just prescribe that for back pain. But 356 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:41,200 Speaker 1: so there they don't. They literally directly quote said they 357 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,120 Speaker 1: don't want to change the perception of physicians that it's 358 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:47,920 Speaker 1: weaker than morphine, but in fact it was actually twice 359 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: as strong as morphine, twice as fucking strong. They also 360 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 1: coined the term pseudo addiction, which is not a real thing, 361 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: um and basically their eyes that there's people who are 362 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 1: addicts and then there's people who are just drug abusers, 363 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: and it's like the same thing. Nobody really wants to 364 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: be a drug addict. Nobody wants their lives to fall apart. 365 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: What are you talking about? So they did a big 366 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: launch after you know, there they got the word out 367 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,919 Speaker 1: about it, and there was a really big storm in 368 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,919 Speaker 1: New York that day, and they're totally across the country 369 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 1: and this like very culturally appropriative resort and um it 370 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 1: was called like the Wigwam or something, and like the 371 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 1: prize was like it was just like very inappropriate. So 372 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: there are in a sunny place whatever. And Richard Sackler, 373 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 1: the head of the company, says, the launch of Oxyconton 374 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: tablets will be followed by a blizzard of prescriptions that 375 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: will bury the competition. The blizzard will be so deep, 376 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 1: dense and white that you will never see their white flag, 377 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,719 Speaker 1: which is kind of fucking terrifying. So um, during this 378 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:54,120 Speaker 1: period when their first marketing Oxyconton, they called hundred thousand, 379 00:21:55,640 --> 00:22:00,399 Speaker 1: hundred thousand physicians, just so many, and they kept hiring people. 380 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 1: And back to that little I M. S. Thing. Guess 381 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,119 Speaker 1: where they got the information of which doctors a target 382 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,919 Speaker 1: I M. S. Arthur Sackler's company. Now Arthur's dead and 383 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: gone at this point, but they still had that company 384 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,719 Speaker 1: in the family and had the resource to to use 385 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: it to find where there were a lot of veterans, 386 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 1: where there were a lot of people who worked in 387 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: coal mines and had like like on the job injuries, 388 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 1: a lot um and they would call doctors who prescribed 389 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: a lot of opioids whales because if you got a 390 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: doctor who was over prescribing, as a salesperson, you made 391 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: a percentage of that. And they had this whole program 392 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 1: that was incentivizing people, and they produced pharma explicitly instructed 393 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: sales reps to target quote unquote opioid naive doctors. So 394 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 1: that meant that they were seeking out doctors who knew 395 00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:00,040 Speaker 1: absolutely nothing about pain management. And the only information and 396 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,679 Speaker 1: they were going to have, similar to the salespeople, was 397 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 1: coming from Party Pharmaceuticals, And there was like all this 398 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: stuff floating around, like all these like infographics and they're 399 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: from like the American Panion Association. I don't know for 400 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 1: a factor, that's the name. It's similar. I just don't 401 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: want to go after it, you know, organization that's not that. 402 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: But they would have a bunch of different names like that. 403 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,360 Speaker 1: And if you looked on the back, like very very 404 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:27,399 Speaker 1: small print, I would say um partially funded due to 405 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 1: the generosity of the Sackler family. And nobody looked at 406 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 1: that because you're not reading the fine print on that ship. 407 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: Even though now you have to um so they would 408 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: call in these open wood naive doctors and they also um, 409 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:44,160 Speaker 1: they would give gifts to these doctors, like they would 410 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: give out um like a like a massage coupon or 411 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 1: ask a doctor to go see an NFL game with them. 412 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 1: I mean, like they could spend money from the company 413 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,680 Speaker 1: to get a doctor to start. Like they'd create these 414 00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,439 Speaker 1: bonds and these relationships and keep going to see the 415 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 1: same doctors and keep convincing them to up the dosage. 416 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,880 Speaker 1: And this was like this was standard protocol for how 417 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: to sell oxyconton. And they also call on doctors with 418 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:15,880 Speaker 1: suspended licenses, knowing that they got their licenses suspended because 419 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 1: of over prescription UM and there's proof of that. They 420 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: denied it for a really long time. They said that 421 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,199 Speaker 1: they had no idea that there was any sort of 422 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 1: abuse happening UM until like two thousand two, and they 423 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 1: knew like by so UM there was a crime ring 424 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:39,439 Speaker 1: who found an old doctor named Eleanor Santiago, And what 425 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,880 Speaker 1: they would do is they would pay homeless people. Um. 426 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,160 Speaker 1: They picked them up on skid row in Los Angeles. 427 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,959 Speaker 1: They put them in a bus and they dropped them 428 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 1: off with this pain clinic and she was in on it, 429 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,679 Speaker 1: and so they would just go in get a prescription 430 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,479 Speaker 1: and they just bring back the bottle of oxy and 431 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 1: they the crim ring would just pay them to be 432 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:02,880 Speaker 1: there and then they resell it. In one year, Eleanor 433 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:08,360 Speaker 1: Santiago sold seventy three thousand pills out of one thing. 434 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 1: And so if there was somebody who was assigned to 435 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: that region, they benefited off of that. So they're not 436 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: going to say anything like they're not going to be like, hey, 437 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,239 Speaker 1: we think there's something sketchy going on with this this 438 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: woman who's over prescribing, because they are making so much 439 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:29,160 Speaker 1: fucking money. And another similar situation was in the New 440 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 1: England area. Fathala methali Um was under investigation. Perdue was 441 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 1: aware of it. They knew that he was like being 442 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:41,640 Speaker 1: sketchy with drugs and they still called him. His office 443 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: would have beach chairs. People would wait so long in 444 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: line and they knew that they could get him to 445 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: prescribe them stuff and so they'd be out there in 446 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: their beach chairs just waiting for for oxycon. And he 447 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 1: ended up ultimately due to um that as well some 448 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 1: other medical malpractice things, he got sentence to seven years 449 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 1: in prison. So he got his UM. And then another 450 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: one is Walter Jacob who only worked three days a week, 451 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: Like he was the only person in his practice. It 452 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: was a private practice that he opened up and like 453 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,640 Speaker 1: only worked three days a week, and he sold three 454 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 1: seven three forty seven thousand pills. And after they knew 455 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: they noticed that there was this whale as opposed to 456 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,360 Speaker 1: being like, hey, there's probably some addiction problems going on here. Um, 457 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 1: Perdue decided to give him fifty thousand dollars to do 458 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: a speech at one of their paying conferences. And they 459 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 1: had all these conferences and they would like do them 460 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: in really cool places and fly in all these doctors 461 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: and like do these seminars. But they're like, you know whatever, 462 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 1: Like the American Paining Association, they're called that, and it's 463 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 1: that seminar. But it's funded by Perdue. It's owned by Perdue. 464 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:50,640 Speaker 1: They can make up as many companies that they want, 465 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: and they sure as hell did so it was there 466 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: was so much happening with how they marketed this, I 467 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 1: mean and the Toppers program as far as like their 468 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,239 Speaker 1: employees selling it. They would give away trips out were 469 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 1: like all expenses paid to Hawaii and then not to 470 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:11,160 Speaker 1: mention the poppy fields all the way in Tasmania, which 471 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,879 Speaker 1: is such a remote part of the world. They would 472 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,919 Speaker 1: be incentivizing these poppy growers and these farmers to stop 473 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: growing carrots or stop growing you know, fruit and plant 474 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: poppy seeds instead because that's where they're getting the active 475 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: ingredient oxy codon, which is opium. And they would incentivize 476 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: these farmers by like giving them these massive gifts. And 477 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,440 Speaker 1: it's so bizarre because and Johnson and Johnson was also 478 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 1: involved in this too. I want to give you know, 479 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: every everyone who should be verified is going to be 480 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: vilified in this episode. But there would be like these 481 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 1: you know, small town Tasmanian farmers wearing they're like you know, 482 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,879 Speaker 1: beat up farming clothes, driving a fucking Mercedes to the 483 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,679 Speaker 1: field to go because they were that's where they were 484 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: getting gifted. And it's so weird. So there's like this 485 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 1: massive influx of opulent things in Tasmania. But it's just 486 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: it's absolutely insane. There was also a very big scandal 487 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: because of the um this program, like this this program 488 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 1: they did and this video that they made because of it, 489 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: and it was called I Got My Life Back, and 490 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 1: they were just a bunch of people that were taking 491 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: oxyconton that Produe Pharma interviewed, and they were saying things like, 492 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 1: you know, this changed my life. I got my life back. 493 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: I never used to be able to play with my grandchildren. 494 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 1: I never used to be able to do this because 495 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: of my chronic pain. And the people who were the 496 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: in that I Got My Life Back video ended up 497 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 1: like one guy who was in the second one, he 498 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 1: wasn't even taking oxyconton at that point. He was on 499 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: methadone because it was cheaper and oxycon got too expensive. 500 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: He ended up dying in a car crash um while 501 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: um presumably and allegedly while under the influence of oxyconton. 502 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: They said that he kept a box of it underneath 503 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: his seat in his car are um. Another one lost 504 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: lost a job and couldn't afford oxy and like lost 505 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: her entire life, her family and finally was able to 506 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: wean herself off of it um. And then another person 507 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 1: was found dead with two oh wids in this system. 508 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: And these are just like there's like three out of 509 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: probably eight people interviewed for this, and and who knows 510 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 1: what happened to the other people. But I got my 511 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: life back video is a complete joke because they literally 512 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: lost their laps because of this truck that they were 513 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: being told was saying okay. So that is how this 514 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: all got big. This is the crescendo, and then this 515 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: is when the crisis starts. So this is when people 516 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: are looking around and realizing that all of the If 517 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: you had a map where high concentrations of oxy cotton 518 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: prescriptions were in the country, and it was like read 519 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: for the higher areas, and then you put a clear 520 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: map over it that had the places that had the 521 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 1: highest concentration of oxyconton overdoses and addiction UM and methadone clinics, 522 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: you it's the same hot spots. And also an important 523 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: thing to know is every single oxyconton pill that was 524 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 1: on the market on the black market, being sold on 525 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 1: the street came from Perdu. So they profited off of 526 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: all of that. They made so much money off of 527 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: all of that because like it all had to start somewhere. 528 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 1: No one was illegally making oxyconton. There was really no 529 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: way to do it, and it had a higher You 530 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 1: couldn't have UM other drugs that had a hundred and 531 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: eighty milligrams, which that one ended up getting pulled off 532 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 1: the off the market because of you know, um, the 533 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: fact that it's too much UM. But all you had 534 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: to do was suck off the coating to get into 535 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,719 Speaker 1: the oxyconton and so people were crushed it snorting it. 536 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: It became a huge ju judge problem in my home 537 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:07,920 Speaker 1: state of Maine. And Jay McCloskey, who was the main 538 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: state attorney general at that point, he was the first 539 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: person to blow the whistle and say, hey, there's this 540 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: horrible opioid crisis going on, and you know, people are 541 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: dying whatever advocating and if you guys have listened to 542 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: my podcast before, you know, I have a sister who 543 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 1: died of a heroin overdose and the first time she 544 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: went to prison, she was um on oxy cotton and 545 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: that was what got her into it. She was like 546 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:37,959 Speaker 1: very normal, intelligent girl with friends and went to a 547 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 1: private Baptist school and um just was like thriving. And 548 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: then she started dating this guy and got into fucking 549 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 1: oxy because people were like, I mean, I have to 550 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:49,959 Speaker 1: be honest, Like I've been at parties and stuff and like, 551 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 1: you know, if if somebody offers you an adderall to 552 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 1: stay awake, like that's like not, you shouldn't do it. 553 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: You shouldn't take drugs are not prescribed to you. But 554 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 1: like that's not a like cra easy occurrence like that 555 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:02,720 Speaker 1: happens at a lot of college parties and a a lot 556 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 1: of parties I've been doing. It's like, hey, whatever, and 557 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 1: so you're thinking, like, well, this is a legal drug, 558 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 1: Like how bad can it be? And you're just taking 559 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 1: a party drug and same like people to examics at 560 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: parties too, and like, but this is like one that 561 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 1: kills you. It can kill you the first time you 562 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 1: take it. Like it's absolutely crazy. So you know, people 563 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 1: are thinking it's safe because it's medicine, and it's just 564 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: absolutely not. So you get people who are vulnerable and 565 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 1: you know, just I mean, my sister was like nine, 566 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 1: just at a party, I assume, and um so Jay 567 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 1: McCloskey brings the alarm for main and another spoiler alert. 568 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 1: He fucking went to work for Pretty and he was 569 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 1: the first person he knew that people were dying. He 570 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 1: knew and all of this is happening at the exact 571 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 1: same time that my sister is getting addicted to oxyconton. 572 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 1: So I'm really pissed about that. Ship if I could, 573 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 1: if I met that guy, probably punch him in the face. Um. 574 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 1: They had this slogan that they would say to you know, 575 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 1: like the company, and it became like this attitude they 576 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 1: were focusing on pseudo addiction, saying like, well, this person 577 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 1: isn't really addicted, you just have to up their dosage, 578 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 1: which is crazy to be like, they're not addicted to 579 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 1: the just give him more of it makes no sense. Um. 580 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 1: But they would say it's a direct quote from Richard Seckler, 581 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: the head of the company. Um, he would say, abusers 582 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,240 Speaker 1: aren't victims, they are the victimizers. And he also said, 583 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 1: I believe the media has nefariously cast the drug abusers 584 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 1: the victims instead of a victimizer. And he was very 585 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: very um opinionated on that. And they were just drinking 586 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 1: their own kool aid and like completely completely just I 587 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 1: buried their head in the sand, lie to themselves. Maybe 588 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 1: they weren't lying themselves and they were just like pure 589 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,719 Speaker 1: fucking evil, But I mean, they just created this thing 590 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: where they were all reinforcing each other's beliefs that there 591 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,440 Speaker 1: was nothing wrong going on. And so there's a woman 592 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 1: named Marianne skolik Um She was a nurse and a 593 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 1: mom to Jill Skulik, who was on oxyconton for four 594 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: months and ended up overdosing on a legal prescription, a 595 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 1: completely legal prescription, and she left behind her six year 596 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,760 Speaker 1: old son, and um, she talked to somebody at PARDU 597 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 1: about it because she got Marianne got very involved in 598 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:27,319 Speaker 1: outreach and awareness and trying to get justice. And she just, 599 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:32,400 Speaker 1: I mean, a absolutely amazing woman. And what Robin Hogan, 600 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,799 Speaker 1: who was in the Purdue UH publicity department, said to 601 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,439 Speaker 1: her to her face, he said, you misunderstood the drug 602 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,399 Speaker 1: wasn't the problem. We think she abused drugs, Like oh no, no, 603 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 1: no, no no, our medicine didn't do that. Your daughter was 604 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,360 Speaker 1: a drug addict. And it's like, no, she had a 605 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,839 Speaker 1: had an accident and they gave her oxyconton for four months, 606 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 1: which is like technically, by you know, the medical understanding 607 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,920 Speaker 1: of opioids, like that's actually not a super inappropriate amount 608 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 1: of time to be on an opioid for pain, Like 609 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 1: it's when they were trying to sell people on it 610 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,440 Speaker 1: to use it for years, like that's not how it's 611 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,400 Speaker 1: supposed to be used. But four months, that's like nothing. 612 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 1: People are recovering from surgeries for four months all the time, 613 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 1: and it just tells you how fucked up their drug was. 614 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 1: So perduce had so much to gain from from addiction, 615 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:24,400 Speaker 1: and I think that they just dehumanized these people because 616 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:25,840 Speaker 1: they didn't want to have to deal with it and 617 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 1: they didn't want it on their conscience. And so they 618 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 1: had these pill mills. But the whale doctors. There was 619 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,839 Speaker 1: one in Myrtle Beach and during the quarter that that 620 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:39,799 Speaker 1: pill mill started going, they they got one million, an 621 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,839 Speaker 1: extra revenue out of nowhere just popped up and they go, well, 622 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: looking at the million dollars and all of it was 623 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 1: going to the black market, like they I mean, I 624 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,839 Speaker 1: would this is a hard statistic together, but like I mean, 625 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 1: I'd love to know what percentage of those people actually 626 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,320 Speaker 1: needed it. And some people are getting it and selling 627 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,839 Speaker 1: it like they're not even using the prescriptions themselves. Like 628 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 1: you have addicts obviously who are going in there. But 629 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 1: it's just crazy. And they were sold that this drug 630 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:14,879 Speaker 1: wasn't addictive. So another example of somebody who started who 631 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:18,120 Speaker 1: was suffer suffered from the open wood crisis was a 632 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 1: woman named Martha West. And Martha West was a assistant 633 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:26,760 Speaker 1: at Party Pharmaceuticals. She was really involved in the behind 634 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 1: the scenes stuff. I mean, she was one of the 635 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 1: first people to notice that there was addictive qualities to it. 636 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:32,840 Speaker 1: And they were like, no, you can't say that, delete 637 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 1: your emails, um, and she uh ended up, she ended 638 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 1: up um like, testifying against them because she got in 639 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:48,400 Speaker 1: a car accident and went on Oxy and her life 640 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,879 Speaker 1: just fell apart. She ended up they did, UM, we're 641 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 1: gonna talk more about this next, but they did a 642 00:36:54,600 --> 00:37:00,360 Speaker 1: trial and um, they were getting you know, pursued charges, 643 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 1: charges were getting pursued against Perdue, and Martha was going 644 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,239 Speaker 1: to testify and she'd agreed to testify in front of 645 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,480 Speaker 1: a grand jury, and they ended up she ended up 646 00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 1: not showing up to the trial for her testimony, and 647 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:16,560 Speaker 1: she um they found her in the emergency room of 648 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:21,120 Speaker 1: a local hospital begging for pills. And this woman's life 649 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,799 Speaker 1: was destroyed by oxyconton both because she worked for the 650 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,479 Speaker 1: company and they fired her because of her addiction, UM 651 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:31,520 Speaker 1: and because she got addicted to the exact same exact 652 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,320 Speaker 1: thing that she was part of selling. So this is 653 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,640 Speaker 1: where things start to go downhill for the Zacoar family. Um. 654 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:41,879 Speaker 1: There was a memo to Martha West, the secretary who 655 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,240 Speaker 1: got addicted and was going to go to testify UM 656 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,359 Speaker 1: about addiction in n They tried to say that they 657 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,920 Speaker 1: hadn't heard anything, and so this UM case goes from 658 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,440 Speaker 1: two thousand two to two thousand and eight, and they 659 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:56,719 Speaker 1: were like, oh, yeah, we we'd never heard anything until 660 00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,360 Speaker 1: like two thousand two, and they're like, no, no, we 661 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: found ninety nine. And then they end up finding earlier UM. 662 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,320 Speaker 1: And they had such a horrible attitude about it because 663 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:09,319 Speaker 1: as people like Jay McCloskey were blowing the whistle on this, 664 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: they were very, um, you know, there was bad press happening, 665 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,400 Speaker 1: and they would try to combat it by like calling 666 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,319 Speaker 1: people and delegitimizing the journalists. And some one guy named 667 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 1: Barry Meyer like almost lost his job because he wrote 668 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:25,960 Speaker 1: the sexpose and then he ended up being completely right 669 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,640 Speaker 1: and he wrote some really great stuff about this. He's 670 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,160 Speaker 1: so passionate, and he got to be there for the 671 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,359 Speaker 1: trial because UM. They were like, you know, this guy 672 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 1: deserves to see them go down. UM. So even on 673 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:41,880 Speaker 1: a day like September eleven, two thousand one, there was 674 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:47,640 Speaker 1: an email sent within the Produce Pharma Company and it said, 675 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 1: nine eleven is a very tragic day, but at least 676 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:56,680 Speaker 1: it will take Oxyconton out of the headlines. And that 677 00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,359 Speaker 1: tells you everything they you need to know about their 678 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,960 Speaker 1: opinion on the fucking value of a human life. So 679 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 1: by two thousand too, they had spent forty five million 680 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,799 Speaker 1: dollars in fighting off lawsuits with no trial or institution. 681 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:12,680 Speaker 1: That was all just paying their attorneys. Like they did 682 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,720 Speaker 1: not pay They didn't pay anybody off, they didn't settle, 683 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:17,880 Speaker 1: they didn't go to trial. They literally just like scared 684 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,160 Speaker 1: these people off and would you use like intimidation and 685 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,719 Speaker 1: bullying tactics and um, Howard you Dell was their main 686 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,880 Speaker 1: lawyer and he was a really prominent part of the company, 687 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,000 Speaker 1: and he was told that there was no limit on 688 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,120 Speaker 1: the legal budget. So they had eighteen in house attorneys 689 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:37,400 Speaker 1: and that cost them three million dollars a month. And 690 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,360 Speaker 1: then they hired these really powerful ones like Eric Holder, 691 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:42,799 Speaker 1: who was a Deputy Attorney General for the US, and 692 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,960 Speaker 1: then Mary Joe White was a former U S attorney. 693 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:50,399 Speaker 1: And then they also um got the like they had 694 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 1: Rudy Giuliani running around advocating for them, and uh, they 695 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,239 Speaker 1: had all these powerful people in government who were like 696 00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:59,439 Speaker 1: trying to be like, yeah, no, don't pursue this case, 697 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:03,600 Speaker 1: and these um, these state attorney generals ended up doing 698 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,520 Speaker 1: it anyways. And so there's these really really great guys 699 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:11,520 Speaker 1: John Brownie, Rick mount Castle and Mr Ramsayer. I forgot 700 00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,160 Speaker 1: to write down his first name, my bad um, but 701 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 1: they they're covered in the TV show Dopsick, and they 702 00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:23,480 Speaker 1: fought relentlessly to fight Produce Pharmaceuticals. They made a request, 703 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:25,759 Speaker 1: they got a subpoena for all of their internal documents, 704 00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:28,800 Speaker 1: and Produce shows up with like eight trucks full of 705 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,279 Speaker 1: ship and that's a I think it's called blizzarding, but 706 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:35,600 Speaker 1: that's a legal tactic. So when somebody like asked for 707 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,520 Speaker 1: evidence in there, you know, you get a subpoena, you 708 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:42,440 Speaker 1: turn every fucking thing in, knowing that they like it 709 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:44,480 Speaker 1: would take them years to get through all of it, 710 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:48,960 Speaker 1: and it totally did. And so Ramsayer was so like, 711 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:54,600 Speaker 1: it's so focused, and so is Rick mount Castle specifically, 712 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,240 Speaker 1: and um, they would set an alarm for four am 713 00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:59,680 Speaker 1: to send a facts so that Perdue would think that 714 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,040 Speaker 1: they have a large team of people working around the 715 00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:04,080 Speaker 1: clock on it. So he'd set alarms for random times 716 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: and just like send them ship and uh it was 717 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:09,120 Speaker 1: just like the three of them and then some people 718 00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:14,200 Speaker 1: in their office. So it was pretty crazy. But the 719 00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:18,360 Speaker 1: Sacklers around this time, we're stepping down because they like 720 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:20,799 Speaker 1: from their positions in the company now, they kept doing 721 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,840 Speaker 1: the jobs. Like Richard Sackler still ended up being like 722 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,759 Speaker 1: acting president CEO, trying to do everything. He was a 723 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,839 Speaker 1: huge micro manager. Everybody hates this guy, everyone who's working 724 00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:32,040 Speaker 1: for him except the people that he's paid millions of 725 00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,760 Speaker 1: dollars to shut the funk up. So those those people 726 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,399 Speaker 1: like them. But he was like, we should step down. 727 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:39,120 Speaker 1: We want to keep our name out of it. Again, 728 00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,360 Speaker 1: they're like obsessed with the Sackler names. So they're like, 729 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:43,080 Speaker 1: we don't want totain it and we don't want to 730 00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:47,520 Speaker 1: have any felony charges brought against us. So UM attorney 731 00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:54,720 Speaker 1: John Brownley he pursues felony charges and after John Brownlee 732 00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:59,600 Speaker 1: was asked by somebody in the Justice Department to not 733 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,560 Speaker 1: or sue them, and like still to this day, nobody 734 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,640 Speaker 1: knows who sent that directive. It was like really like 735 00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:09,000 Speaker 1: backdoor ship and like was it the head of the 736 00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,040 Speaker 1: Like it's just crazy. So somebody they had a fucking 737 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,799 Speaker 1: mole in there who was advocating for Purdue, and he 738 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:18,000 Speaker 1: John Brownley was told not to pursue them, and he 739 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:19,319 Speaker 1: was like, no, fuck you, I'm going to do it 740 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,920 Speaker 1: because they can't like they can't make you not pursue them, 741 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:25,000 Speaker 1: but they can threaten you. And so a week later 742 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:29,720 Speaker 1: he found a list of attorneys to be fired because 743 00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:31,640 Speaker 1: of loyalty and he was on it, and they were 744 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,880 Speaker 1: saying like they weren't loyal to the Bush administration or 745 00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,840 Speaker 1: like some bullshit or whatever. And he ended up not 746 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,200 Speaker 1: getting fired because all of this came to light and 747 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:44,000 Speaker 1: they were like, oh, somebody was going behind everyone's backs 748 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:48,600 Speaker 1: and trying to advocate for Purdue. And John Brownley did not. 749 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:50,200 Speaker 1: He could have just been like, yeah, all right, never mind, 750 00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,640 Speaker 1: we won't bring fellow any charges. We'll just do misdemeanors whatever. 751 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,920 Speaker 1: But he was so committed to the cause, and he 752 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,439 Speaker 1: was even offered, like essentially offered bribes, Like he knew 753 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,480 Speaker 1: he could get a job at Purdue and make millions 754 00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:02,879 Speaker 1: of dollars, millions more than he was making. He knew 755 00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,920 Speaker 1: that he wanted to run for president one day, and 756 00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,560 Speaker 1: he like that would have really helped him. He could 757 00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:12,120 Speaker 1: have had these powerful people on his side, and he 758 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,799 Speaker 1: was like, no, I'm not gonna do it. So this 759 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:20,600 Speaker 1: ends up happening with the company. They also had Perdue Frederick, 760 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:23,759 Speaker 1: which is the same thing as Perdue, but that's where 761 00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:27,440 Speaker 1: they kept. They put oxyconton into Purdue, and they put 762 00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:31,760 Speaker 1: the laxatives and um ear wax removers that the company 763 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:35,239 Speaker 1: came with originally into Perdue Frederick. So they're all by 764 00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:37,240 Speaker 1: the same people, ram by the same thing, but technically 765 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:41,960 Speaker 1: different entities. So um, the only people that they could 766 00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:47,600 Speaker 1: charge were the only people that they could charge were 767 00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:51,239 Speaker 1: not members of the Sackler family because remember they'd all 768 00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:56,040 Speaker 1: stepped down. So they ended up three people, including Howard 769 00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:59,719 Speaker 1: you Doll ended up leading guilty. Um they were for 770 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:03,319 Speaker 1: today six million. The all three executives got three years 771 00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:06,840 Speaker 1: of probation and four hours of community service. The Sacklers 772 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:09,000 Speaker 1: gave them tons of sucking money. So even though these 773 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:10,800 Speaker 1: guys couldn't work, they could. They weren't allowed to do 774 00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:13,319 Speaker 1: anything that had anything to do with Medicare, which would 775 00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:17,000 Speaker 1: have like any subsidized healthcare program, and so that would 776 00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,279 Speaker 1: mean that like oxyconton couldn't be covered and some people 777 00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:22,719 Speaker 1: would stop taking it, and they were like, oh, well, 778 00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:26,040 Speaker 1: we'll just put this to for Perduce Frederick. We'll let 779 00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:29,319 Speaker 1: Purdue Frederick dissolve. We'll take those products and put them 780 00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,000 Speaker 1: under perdue and so like nobody even like it was 781 00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:35,799 Speaker 1: basically a speeding ticket. And at the trial it was 782 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:40,360 Speaker 1: very very emotional. Um, there was a woman who brought 783 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,600 Speaker 1: her son's ashes, and uh, the whole thing with Martha 784 00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:47,120 Speaker 1: West who was supposed to be there. Um, and it's 785 00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:51,279 Speaker 1: just fucking it's just fucking crazy. And so after all 786 00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:52,719 Speaker 1: of this, what they did was there like we're going 787 00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:56,319 Speaker 1: to reformulate this, and they made it harder too, and 788 00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,399 Speaker 1: nearly impossible to crush and snort and all of that, 789 00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:04,279 Speaker 1: and so um, well people are already addicted. What are 790 00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,320 Speaker 1: they gonna do. Um, they're going to find something to 791 00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,799 Speaker 1: substitute for it. And it's they got more and more 792 00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,320 Speaker 1: expensive as well. And I mean, like I think a 793 00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:16,280 Speaker 1: one pill was like between eighty and a hundred dollars 794 00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:18,040 Speaker 1: or something crazy like that, Like it was tons of 795 00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:22,680 Speaker 1: money and heroin is very cheap. Um. So after the reformulation, 796 00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,239 Speaker 1: that made it harder to abuse the drug, which they 797 00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:26,759 Speaker 1: could have done from the very beginning. They had the 798 00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:28,560 Speaker 1: technology to do it, but they knew that they were 799 00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:31,759 Speaker 1: making money off of the addicts in those pill mill 800 00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:37,960 Speaker 1: areas UM, so they after they reformulated it, the sales 801 00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:42,359 Speaker 1: of the highest dosage went down. So the reformulation, the 802 00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:46,239 Speaker 1: only people it affected were people who were abusing it, 803 00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:50,359 Speaker 1: So sales of the highest dotage went down, which tells 804 00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:52,120 Speaker 1: you that a quarter of all people who were using 805 00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:56,680 Speaker 1: the highest dosage were abusing it. UM. Then there was 806 00:45:56,760 --> 00:46:00,799 Speaker 1: a ride. This all happened around and there was a 807 00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:04,719 Speaker 1: rise in heroin overdoses. Four out of five people who 808 00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:08,560 Speaker 1: overdosed on heroin that year had started with prescription opioids 809 00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:12,520 Speaker 1: four out of five. And it has been shown now 810 00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:15,600 Speaker 1: that there's been more and more studies done that of 811 00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:19,600 Speaker 1: users become addicted or overdose on oxyconton. And there was 812 00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:21,640 Speaker 1: this one story I read in the Empire of Pain 813 00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:26,480 Speaker 1: book that UM, there was a there was a doctor 814 00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:29,360 Speaker 1: UM who they went to visit. Somebody went to a 815 00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:31,359 Speaker 1: small town and there was a picture of the high 816 00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,239 Speaker 1: school football team and he was like, literally half of 817 00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:37,759 Speaker 1: those guys are either dead from oxyconton or like in 818 00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:40,960 Speaker 1: rehap right now, half of the football team. I mean, 819 00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:44,680 Speaker 1: this place hit small areas hard to hit Appalachia, it 820 00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:49,400 Speaker 1: hit Maine, it hit Virginia, it hit all these places, 821 00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:51,799 Speaker 1: and it was just like I mean, it ended up 822 00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,040 Speaker 1: taking over the whole country. I mean, but there was 823 00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:59,880 Speaker 1: a in in Ohio of the population had been prescribed 824 00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:03,280 Speaker 1: c cotton and that's not even twenty of the adult population. 825 00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:09,200 Speaker 1: That of the entire population have been prescribed oxyconton and 826 00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:14,440 Speaker 1: UHT of Ohio's foster care in percent of those children 827 00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:19,080 Speaker 1: had parents who were addicted to opioids, and Party knew 828 00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:21,000 Speaker 1: that this was happening. They also made an argument. They 829 00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:22,839 Speaker 1: were like, well Jones and Jones was doing it too, 830 00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:26,200 Speaker 1: and we're only four percent of the marketplace. But what 831 00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:29,040 Speaker 1: they did was they counted that kind of talent, all 832 00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:31,839 Speaker 1: coding stuff I was telling about earlier, which is a 833 00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:35,239 Speaker 1: very very very low dosage of opioid, like it's basically 834 00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:38,680 Speaker 1: i mean, it's for severe pain, but it's nothing like 835 00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:41,239 Speaker 1: it's nothing in the grand scheme of things. And so 836 00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:43,080 Speaker 1: they were counting that, and there's a lot of that 837 00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:44,759 Speaker 1: because I mean, it's like you have surgery, you get 838 00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:46,480 Speaker 1: this and it's got a little bit of opioid in 839 00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:48,520 Speaker 1: it because you're gonna be a lot of pain. So 840 00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,120 Speaker 1: they made up four percent of that marketplace. Um, but 841 00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:54,080 Speaker 1: then when you adjust it to potency, they made up 842 00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:59,280 Speaker 1: thirty percent. And then then it comes out that they 843 00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:01,680 Speaker 1: had all these funking, weird little companies running around like 844 00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:04,600 Speaker 1: they were always like sketchy and had all these different 845 00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,240 Speaker 1: things that were entangled. And there's even more to Arthur's 846 00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:09,600 Speaker 1: story than I didn't have time to go into. But um, 847 00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:12,440 Speaker 1: they owned this company called Rhodes Pharma, which made New 848 00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:15,760 Speaker 1: York opioids. They started it right after the guilty plate 849 00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:19,120 Speaker 1: um of the like where they had to um plate 850 00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:22,600 Speaker 1: at the trial, and it was bigger than Johnson and Johnson. 851 00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:26,160 Speaker 1: And they also would make the point that like, well, 852 00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:30,640 Speaker 1: oxyconton isn't abused, it's oxycodon because it's an immediate high, 853 00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:33,160 Speaker 1: and like that's true, but oxyconton was the only way 854 00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:35,960 Speaker 1: you could get that many milligrams in one pill, and 855 00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:39,760 Speaker 1: so um, but they would make that argument like vilifying oxycodone, 856 00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:44,000 Speaker 1: and Rhodes Pharma made oxycodon, and they had this company 857 00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:45,880 Speaker 1: set up so that they could sell engineering version of 858 00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:48,680 Speaker 1: oxyconton as soon as the patent was up, so they 859 00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:50,880 Speaker 1: like secretly owned this company and it was the sixth 860 00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:55,960 Speaker 1: largest opioid um distributor in the United States, and nobody 861 00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:57,960 Speaker 1: knew that it was also produced, So the whole four 862 00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:01,680 Speaker 1: percent thing is fucking bullshit. They are able to manipulate 863 00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:04,719 Speaker 1: any math they want. They also had a bunch of 864 00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:09,160 Speaker 1: ideas for like how they could go forward, because they're like, Okay, well, 865 00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,440 Speaker 1: you know people think oxyconton sucks, Like what can we 866 00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:17,399 Speaker 1: do and pay like places like CBS, Like there's drug 867 00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:20,120 Speaker 1: stores who stopped carrying it because there were so many 868 00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:22,880 Speaker 1: break ins and people stealing stuff and like gunpoint ship 869 00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:28,240 Speaker 1: and but they pretty needed them to keep carrying the drug, 870 00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:31,600 Speaker 1: just like they needed insurance companies to keep covering it. 871 00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:34,080 Speaker 1: So they came up with this idea. They're like, Okay, 872 00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:37,200 Speaker 1: we're going to offer rebates of fourteen thousand dollars for 873 00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:40,359 Speaker 1: overdoses associated with oxyconton, but we're not going to pay 874 00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:42,640 Speaker 1: them out to the families who lost who lost the person. 875 00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:44,600 Speaker 1: We're not gonna pay for funeral costs. We're going to 876 00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:47,360 Speaker 1: offer them to drug stores and insurance companies so that 877 00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:51,719 Speaker 1: they'll keep prescribing our our drug and that didn't end 878 00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:54,400 Speaker 1: up happening, but like, that's where these people's minds were, 879 00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,839 Speaker 1: like absolutely crazy. Ship. And then another one of their 880 00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:01,960 Speaker 1: amazing ideas was they were going going to reformulate. They 881 00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:04,200 Speaker 1: were trying to extend the patent, so they were going 882 00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:06,680 Speaker 1: to secure a new one to extend the length of 883 00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:08,480 Speaker 1: it because they were going to test it on children 884 00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:12,680 Speaker 1: and make oxygonen for children. Um, and then they'd be 885 00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:18,560 Speaker 1: able to patent that further. And it's like absolutely insane. 886 00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:21,040 Speaker 1: And that didn't end up happening either, but again it 887 00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:22,839 Speaker 1: tells you where their heads at. And then for their 888 00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:28,080 Speaker 1: third um genius idea that didn't happen. Um, one of 889 00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:30,560 Speaker 1: the Sacklers had a great idea for a thing called 890 00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,719 Speaker 1: Project Tango. And what does tango means? Tango means two 891 00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:37,200 Speaker 1: things dancing together, two things working together, right, and uh, 892 00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:40,040 Speaker 1: when you're in a tango with something, it's like you're 893 00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:42,840 Speaker 1: working at the same thing and you're dancing together. So 894 00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:45,520 Speaker 1: Project Tango they were like, you know what we should do. 895 00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:49,279 Speaker 1: We should get into the the addiction space, like we 896 00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:53,319 Speaker 1: should make an alternative to methadone, and we should you know, 897 00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:55,919 Speaker 1: really get into that space. We can make money, blah 898 00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:58,640 Speaker 1: blah blah, and so it's like, Okay, so you're gonna 899 00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:01,680 Speaker 1: give the addicts, you're going to create the addiction, and 900 00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:03,920 Speaker 1: then you're gonna try to fix the addiction, and you're 901 00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:07,640 Speaker 1: gonna profit off of both, as in Project fucking Tango. 902 00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:13,120 Speaker 1: And it's crazy. And I there's so much more to 903 00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:16,800 Speaker 1: say about this story, but I like they have quote 904 00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:20,239 Speaker 1: unquote and brought to justice the case that's happening right now, 905 00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:22,680 Speaker 1: Like their names have been taken off museums and all that. 906 00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:26,040 Speaker 1: But there was this one quote that, um, this author 907 00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:29,279 Speaker 1: named Ryan Hampton, who's actually in recovery from opioid addiction, said, 908 00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:32,640 Speaker 1: and this is just the best way to sum it up. Um, 909 00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:34,799 Speaker 1: this family will walk off into the sunset with their 910 00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:37,080 Speaker 1: wealth when they're done paying the settlement after nine years. 911 00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:39,000 Speaker 1: There's a model out there it shows that they'll actually 912 00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:41,160 Speaker 1: be richer based on their investments and interest rates that 913 00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:44,440 Speaker 1: they have. So I can tell you all the details 914 00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:48,360 Speaker 1: of what happened to them with this current, Like, but 915 00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:50,560 Speaker 1: they filed bankruptcy, so they're not going to pay any 916 00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:53,600 Speaker 1: of the settlement. Um, the Sacklers have nothing to do 917 00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:56,040 Speaker 1: with it, so they can't touch their money and they've 918 00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:58,840 Speaker 1: like they could still go after them with felony charges, 919 00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:02,279 Speaker 1: I believe, but it's a complicated thing. And really all 920 00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:04,600 Speaker 1: you need to know is that they got rich and 921 00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:08,480 Speaker 1: they're going to get richer. And yeah, I just and 922 00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:11,200 Speaker 1: obviously this is really close to my heart with my 923 00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:14,960 Speaker 1: sister passing away from a heroin overdose and you know, 924 00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:19,600 Speaker 1: watching her life slowly slip, like slip away because of 925 00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:23,160 Speaker 1: her addiction to these pills, and it's just really fucked up. 926 00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:26,040 Speaker 1: But there's a great book, like I was telling you, 927 00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:29,520 Speaker 1: called Empire of Pain by Patrick Raddon O'Keeffe, and I 928 00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:32,839 Speaker 1: highly recommend that it's a heavy read, but it's it's 929 00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:35,920 Speaker 1: just fascinating, Like every page, it's just like Game of 930 00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:38,520 Speaker 1: Thrones ship you forget that you're reading a true story. 931 00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:41,359 Speaker 1: And then there's a TV show called dop Sick. It 932 00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:44,680 Speaker 1: just came out on Hulu and it is incredibly factual. 933 00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:47,359 Speaker 1: Like I read the book and then um, and they're 934 00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:50,000 Speaker 1: based on different things, like Dopesick is based on a 935 00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:52,920 Speaker 1: book called Dopesick. But I just finished reading Empire of 936 00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:54,720 Speaker 1: Pain and then I was like, oh, let me watch Dopesick, 937 00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:56,320 Speaker 1: and it's like all the same ship, like to the 938 00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:59,440 Speaker 1: point where they're using the same dialogue because um, Patrick's 939 00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:03,920 Speaker 1: book has a sixty page bibliography and it's like references 940 00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:07,160 Speaker 1: depositions and recorded phone calls and emails, and so it's 941 00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:10,400 Speaker 1: like they're you. The parts of the script are exact 942 00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:15,399 Speaker 1: things that were set. So it's absolutely insane. But um, yeah, 943 00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:16,799 Speaker 1: this is something that's really close to my heart. Thank 944 00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:18,200 Speaker 1: you guys for sticking through this one. I know this 945 00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:19,919 Speaker 1: is a really long episode, but it's one I've been 946 00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:23,440 Speaker 1: preparing for a really long time. And there's so much 947 00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:25,360 Speaker 1: more I could say about this, but I kind of 948 00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:28,160 Speaker 1: wanted to talk about the corruption there because that's the 949 00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:31,400 Speaker 1: crime aspect. And yeah, thank you guys so much for listening. 950 00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:34,319 Speaker 1: I'm Kaylie Shore and this is too much to say 951 00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:46,040 Speaker 1: in question, turn it out to you.