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Speaker 1: Hi, Welcome back to Cardinal Territory. It's Tuesday. I almost

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Speaker 1: forgot what day it was. Cardinals snapped a five game

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Speaker 1: losing streak against the Miami Marlins Monday night.

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Speaker 2: They won eight to three.

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Speaker 1: Took advantage of a pretty sloppy game from the Marlins defensively,

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Speaker 1: but really a strong offensive showing across the board in

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Speaker 1: terms of quality.

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Speaker 2: Of a batch at bats, selection and just.

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Speaker 1: All around a good offensive game. It was much needed

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Speaker 1: after the home stand. Welcome back to Cardinal Territory. Coming

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Speaker 1: to you from the media workroom at Loan Depot Park.

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Speaker 2: Katie is here. Bernie is here. Bernie, how are you.

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Speaker 3: I'm doing good. Good to see you again. Yeah, you

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Speaker 3: ought to set up out there. You should have set

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Speaker 3: up in the outfield somewhere. Nobody's sitting out there. You

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Speaker 3: could like in the outfield seats.

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Speaker 2: That was my second, my second thought.

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Speaker 1: But as we were about to record, it was gonna

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Speaker 1: be like during starting line of announcements in the National

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Speaker 1: So even though they're like, I think the official attendance

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Speaker 1: yesterday was like under nine, it would be like the

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Speaker 1: one time during this game that it was actually going

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Speaker 1: to be noisy.

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Speaker 2: So media work groove.

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Speaker 3: It is okay, sounds good. We'll roll all right.

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Speaker 2: So a couple of housekeeping items first.

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Speaker 1: We talked to Nolan Arnado today in the dugout of

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Speaker 1: the Marlin Stadium and he, as we know, is working

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Speaker 1: out in Jupiter at the Cardinal Spring training Complex and

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Speaker 1: says that he is getting closer and closer between pain

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Speaker 1: free and that right shoulder. Is hopeful that he'll be

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Speaker 1: able to start taking swings on Friday and begin a

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Speaker 1: throwing program on Monday. He's right now just doing strength

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Speaker 1: and conditioning, meeting with personal trainers out in Jupiter, but

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Speaker 1: again hoping by Friday to resume baseball activities from the

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Speaker 1: offensive side and start that throwing program next week. Still

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Speaker 1: no timetable for Nolan's return, but both he and the

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Speaker 1: team are optimistic and dare I say confident that he

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Speaker 1: will return at some point at the end of the season.

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Speaker 1: He is one of three players, of course, on the

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Speaker 1: injured list, Victor Scott the second one. On Sunday with

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Speaker 1: that left angle spring, Brendan Donovan hits the il, which

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Speaker 1: brings us to our first topic of the day. Bernie

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Speaker 1: Jose for me is up, He's actually here. Cardinals are

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Speaker 1: playing with a full roster today, full active roster for

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Speaker 1: the saint Less Cardinals round upluse took him a while,

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Speaker 1: took him about over a week.

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Speaker 2: To do, so how about that?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no look on Jose for mean of course, but

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Speaker 1: at this point of the season, with rookie eligibility status

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Speaker 1: being able to be saved until twenty twenty six, the

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Speaker 1: big question from the fan base is if Brendan Donovan

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Speaker 1: is on the IL, where is JJ Weatherholt. Bernie, you

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Speaker 1: had Cardinals manager Alie Marmle on your show today on

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Speaker 1: Kama Wex, The Gas House Gang.

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Speaker 2: JJ Weatherholt was a topic. What was your takeaway for

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Speaker 2: that answer?

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Speaker 3: You know, this will sound stupid, but I don't even

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Speaker 3: remember what he said. I don't think he really said

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Speaker 3: anything of magnitude. I think he was you know, it's

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Speaker 3: not his decision, so I think he was just trying

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Speaker 3: to be diplomatic and you know, not jump into that pool.

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Speaker 3: You know. So what he said though, and he has

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Speaker 3: told you and everyone else this repeatedly. He's very, very

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Speaker 3: very impressed everything to do with JJ Weatherholt, including you know,

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Speaker 3: his demeanor, his professionalism, the way he conducts himself, the

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Speaker 3: other players and camp really respected them and liked them.

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Speaker 3: So I think Ali's got the full embrace for JJ

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Speaker 3: Weatherhol But it's not his call, you know, it's the

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Speaker 3: front office call, and he understands that, and what are

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Speaker 3: you going to do? You know, manager does not get

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Speaker 3: to make the decisions on who they're going to put

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Speaker 3: on the forty man roster.

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Speaker 1: Correct And this is something that maybe it's a little

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Speaker 1: difficult because we have essentially two front offices in charge

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Speaker 1: of the decision. John Mozelak is still doing the forty

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Speaker 1: man roster decisions until the end of the season. But

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Speaker 1: starting JJ Weatherhold's service time, starting his clock, if you will,

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Speaker 1: is a high and bloom decision. And it's not like

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Speaker 1: the Cardinals have to add JJ to the forty man roster.

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Speaker 1: It's not a protection year for him. It is a

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Speaker 1: protection year for several other players in the organization. And

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Speaker 1: I know that's not the answer the fans want to hear,

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Speaker 1: but it does absolutely factor into these kinds of decisions.

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Speaker 2: We actually talked to JJ last week.

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Speaker 1: He was named over the weekend the Cardinals Player of

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Speaker 1: the Month in the minor leagues for the month of July,

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Speaker 1: and there are some things that the organization still wants

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Speaker 1: him to work on, namely being more time I'm at

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Speaker 1: third base. He's like, I haven't really played third base

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Speaker 1: since my freshman year of college. It's still pretty and

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Speaker 1: new to me. I'm playing there about twice a week.

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Speaker 1: We're going to see where it goes. And that's important

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Speaker 1: because as you look towards twenty twenty six, there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of holes about what that infield looks like.

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Speaker 1: You have a third baseman right now and Nolan Arnatto

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Speaker 1: on the roster, no guarantee he's back on twenty twenty six,

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Speaker 1: Nolan Gorman, and I'm sure we'll get to him.

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Speaker 2: Bernie.

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Speaker 1: I know that you've had some things to say about Gorman.

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Speaker 1: Has looked great at the plate, but not so much

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Speaker 1: at the hot corner. Would third base be a place

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Speaker 1: for JJ next year? I think that's a question that

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Speaker 1: the Cardinals are trying to figure out. So he needs

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Speaker 1: to find those reps at third in Memphis right now.

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Speaker 2: You now, he can play around the diamond. He's a

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Speaker 2: talented enough athlete to be able to do so.

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Speaker 1: I don't think anyone is really concerned over JJ Weatherhold's

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Speaker 1: overall athleticism, but there are reasons why he's still in

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Speaker 1: Triple A. I understand it's not the popular answer. It's

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Speaker 1: not the answer fans want to hear. I mean, he's

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Speaker 1: club nine homers for Memphis. He has an OPS over

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Speaker 1: one thousand. He is the true talent. I think we

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Speaker 1: sometimes as a fan base, as an industry at Saint

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Speaker 1: Louis media tend to overhype prospects. There is a difference

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Speaker 1: between a first round, second round draft pick and a

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Speaker 1: top ten draft pick. And that's what makes J. J.

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Speaker 1: Weatherholt the alert even more exciting. There but not yet

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Speaker 1: time to see him and the answer. I get this,

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Speaker 1: a loperty, and I'm sure you do too. The big

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Speaker 1: question that we get from fans is, well, right around

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Speaker 1: this time, the Cardinals called that Mason Win.

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Speaker 2: And it's true.

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Speaker 1: I think yesterday was the date of Mason Win's major

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Speaker 1: league debut.

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Speaker 2: In twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 1: Right around the same time, teams a different record but

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Speaker 1: kind of the same, focusing on the future, focusing on

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Speaker 1: the rebuild. You could call him up and get him

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Speaker 1: every day reps. I think it's a little different from

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Speaker 1: the Mason Win situation because in twenty twenty three, the

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Speaker 1: Cardinals didn't have to do a lot of forty man protection

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Speaker 1: moves they had to make. In fact, they non tenured

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Speaker 1: a ton of guys at the end of that season

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Speaker 1: so they could allow Mason Win to get on the

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Speaker 1: forty man I'm not sure that's the case this year.

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Speaker 1: It's the boring answer. Fans are gonna roll their eyes.

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Speaker 1: I get it, but it is one that an organization

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Speaker 1: has to consider from the as the side of things.

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Speaker 2: Do I like it?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 1: I want to see JJ weatherhole, but this is not

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Speaker 1: something that we can just do based on this player's ready.

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Speaker 1: Maybe not, let's bring them up. Obviously, other things are

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Speaker 1: going to factor into this decision.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, a couple of things. I totally get the I

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Speaker 3: totally understand where the team's coming from on this. I

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Speaker 3: try to understand things because I want to be fair.

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Speaker 3: But you know, I was just doing a simple exercise

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Speaker 3: with a couple of my friends, you know, a couple

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Speaker 3: of whom follow the Cardinals closely and actually do some

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Speaker 3: media work, And we were going through their forty man roster,

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Speaker 3: and we were also looking at minor league players that

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Speaker 3: they have to add, and we all agree that you know, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's easy for us to say it can be done,

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Speaker 3: it's really not a crisis, and I really think it

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Speaker 3: could be done, and I don't think it's a crisis.

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Speaker 3: I think they can make those cuts so they can

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Speaker 3: sort of mentally remove certain guys and there'd be plenty

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Speaker 3: of room that JJ weatherhole. But again, it's easy for

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Speaker 3: me to say, it's easy for you to say, but

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Speaker 3: I'm a little baffled why they're hung up on this.

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Speaker 3: I do think though, once again me trying to be fair,

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Speaker 3: I do think though the Jamazak wants to keep everything

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Speaker 3: clean for heim Bloom and his people and all the

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Speaker 3: minor league people, because they may have a whole different

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Speaker 3: view of some of these prospects, and they may be

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Speaker 3: the ones telling him we'd rather keep this clean for now,

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Speaker 3: you know, because we think there's some guys there that

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Speaker 3: are a little under the radar we have to add,

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Speaker 3: and we really don't want to risk losing them. Now.

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Speaker 3: That could be I don't want to say crying wolf,

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Speaker 3: but you know, it may not be as urgent as that.

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Speaker 3: But I do understand on principle why John Moziek would

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Speaker 3: want to keep that spot open, just to keep it

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Speaker 3: nice and clean for the Bloom regime when they take over.

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Speaker 3: So I don't know, Katie, you've covered the team Saints

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty one, right, I believe. So why do the

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Speaker 3: Cardinals always have to make everything so complicated? I mean

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Speaker 3: that's the bigger thing where it's like it's just never

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Speaker 3: just like with whether you put someone on the il

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Speaker 3: or not, and whether you do this, and what do

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Speaker 3: you do that you're playing shorthanded? It's like, why is

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Speaker 3: it always almost like a self created issue that, you know,

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Speaker 3: where there's drama thrown in where there should be no drama.

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Speaker 3: You know, they they I don't think the new regime

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Speaker 3: will be like this. I don't, but the Cardinals are

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Speaker 3: amazing to be the way they overcomplicate everything. And you know,

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Speaker 3: and if I you don't mind me throwing this in,

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Speaker 3: you know, before you got here, you know, I used

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Speaker 3: to make fun and I think I think Derek Golden

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Speaker 3: some others would get irritated with me. I used to

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Speaker 3: make fun of it, just like what, like, why is

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Speaker 3: this like splitting the atom? Because all we ever hear

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Speaker 3: and this preceded your arrival, all we ever hear all

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Speaker 3: the times, Like well, they got to keep spots open

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Speaker 3: on the forty man or it's like, oh, no, you

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Speaker 3: can't bring him up because then you know you'd have

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Speaker 3: to put him on the forty man. And I always

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Speaker 3: joke and say, are the Cardinals all that talented? Where

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Speaker 3: they have more great talent and they know what to

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Speaker 3: do with are you kidney? It's easy to find a

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Speaker 3: forty man spot for a talented player. And so that's

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Speaker 3: why I'm cranky about it, because I've been listening to

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Speaker 3: this nonsense for years and years and years and years,

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Speaker 3: and it just again, they love to make things overly complicated.

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Speaker 3: I don't know why, but they do.

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Speaker 1: I think of all the criticisms of the Cardinals organization

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Speaker 1: over the last five six years, the forty man roster

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Speaker 1: construction is the most fair one I've said out on

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Speaker 1: the last couple of shows. It's one thing that has

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Speaker 1: baffled me since arriving on the beat is how it's managed.

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Speaker 1: And they're obviously things that are going on behind the

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Speaker 1: scenes that I'm not aware of or again don't understand.

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Speaker 1: But yes, how the Cardinals have navigated the forty man

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Speaker 1: roster has directly correlated to where they are right.

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Speaker 2: Now aka not in a good place, and it.

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Speaker 1: Will be on the new front office the hind bluem

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Speaker 1: Okay, Bernie, let's talk about a guy that you've been

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Speaker 1: pretty high on as of late, and rightfully so. Smapped

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Speaker 1: a two run homer left on left in Monday's eight

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Speaker 1: three went over the Marlins. Is Nolan Gorman finally hitting

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Speaker 1: his stride offensively?

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Speaker 3: He seems to be. I asked Ali marml that today

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Speaker 3: on on Camorks, and he's very high on Nolan Gorman.

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Speaker 3: I listen, I know that Nolan Gorman's gonna have to

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Speaker 3: prove it over time, you know. But if you go

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Speaker 3: back to late May, like basically his last fifty one games,

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Speaker 3: and there were a couple of interruptions, but his last

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Speaker 3: fifty one games, he leads the Cardinals in way to runs,

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Speaker 3: creative plus, he's thirty seven percent above average. He leads

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Speaker 3: them in slugging percentage five hundred. He leads them in ops,

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Speaker 3: he just moved ahead of Contreras. He's second in ll

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Speaker 3: he leads them in walk rate, which is a really

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Speaker 3: good part of his game. Now, over the last fifty

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Speaker 3: one games that he's played in, you know, his walk

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Speaker 3: rates twelve point four percent. That's excellent. He's not swinging

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Speaker 3: and missing as much, he's not striking out as much,

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Speaker 3: he's not chasing as much, and he seems to have

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Speaker 3: figured something out. If you look even his on base

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Speaker 3: percentage because of the walks, he's second on the team

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Speaker 3: since late May in that category as well. And you know,

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Speaker 3: if you look at what else I got here, well

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Speaker 3: i'll leave it at that. I mean, he's his numbers

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Speaker 3: across the board are like either first or second among Cardinals,

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Speaker 3: and even batting average, he's fourth among Cardinals and batting average,

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Speaker 3: but he's got a two fifty three average in his

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Speaker 3: last fifty one game. So for Nolan Gorman, that's outstanding

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Speaker 3: and so the other thing I'll throw in about him

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Speaker 3: and then I'll shut up. You know, last night he

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Speaker 3: hit his fifth home run against a left handed pitcher

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Speaker 3: this year. That's a new career high for him. He's

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Speaker 3: never done that. And you know, he he doesn't have

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Speaker 3: a good batting average against left handed pictures, but he

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Speaker 3: has a lot of impact against them. Like, for example,

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Speaker 3: among the other left handed hitters the Cardinals have, right

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Speaker 3: Nolan Gorman leads them with five home runs, he leads

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Speaker 3: against lefty pictures. He leads them in slugging percentage, he

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Speaker 3: leads them in ops. He's twelve percent average based on

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Speaker 3: way to runs creative plus, so he's even moved ahead

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Speaker 3: of Alec Burlason in that regard. And I'm a little

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Speaker 3: mystified because it seems to me like he's not getting

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Speaker 3: enough run on this like where people are saying, wow,

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Speaker 3: look at these numbers. These are not Nolan Gorman type numbers.

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Speaker 3: Maybe he's figured it out, so listen, I just like

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Speaker 3: everybody else, when Nolan Gorman's going through these valleys and

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Speaker 3: he's swinging and missing and he's striking out like crazy,

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Speaker 3: I'm happy to write about not happy, but I write

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Speaker 3: about that. I never ducked that. But I think when

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Speaker 3: a guy's gone as well as he's gone, and he's

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Speaker 3: made as so much progress as he is, I think

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Speaker 3: we should take notice. Not you, I'm not lecturing you

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Speaker 3: or anyone else. I'm I'm using I'm using the Wii

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Speaker 3: as in all of our people. You know, we need

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Speaker 3: to take more notice of this. I don't know. I

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Speaker 3: think people have sort of made up their mind on

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Speaker 3: him a little bit and they made me need to

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Speaker 3: take a second look. He's doing some really good things.

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Speaker 3: Now he's got to show that he can sustain.

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Speaker 1: And that's the key, sustainability. And when you're looking at

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Speaker 1: Nolan Gorman, I'll read some Baseball savonstats.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad you brought up the walk rate.

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Speaker 1: That to me is a huge sign that whatever changes

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Speaker 1: he's made early in the season are paying off more consistently.

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Speaker 1: And when you're talking about a player who is kind

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Speaker 1: of redoing his entire swing, of course, those things aren't

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Speaker 1: going to come into force immediately, right, It's going to

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Speaker 1: take some time. No one comes in and overhauls an

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Speaker 1: entire swing and gets a write in seven days.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes it takes three, four or five months.

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Speaker 1: So when you look at Nolan Gorman, who has a

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Speaker 1: twelve point six walk rate that's in the eighty eighth

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Speaker 1: percentile of the sport right now. In twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 1: that walk rate was eight point five percent, so already

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Speaker 1: a huge jump there.

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Speaker 2: Another huge jump the strikeout rate.

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Speaker 1: We know that Nolan Gorman had a whiff and strikeout

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Speaker 1: percentage that were bottom tier in baseball last year. I

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Speaker 1: mean that strikeout percentage was thirty seven point six percent,

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Speaker 1: the rate was thirty eight point seven. Very few players

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Speaker 1: in all of baseball had worse marks than that. Twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five still not great, but big improvements. That weight

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Speaker 1: with rate, excuse me, is down to thirty two to

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Speaker 1: four and the shrikeout rates below thirty at twenty nine.

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Speaker 1: So for his player prototype you mentioned the average, he's

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Speaker 1: always gonna have a little bit of swing and miss

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Speaker 1: in his game. That's the trade off for big power.

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Speaker 1: He's hitting the ball more consistently. The strikeout rate has

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Speaker 1: gone down, the walk rate has gone up, and it

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Speaker 1: should translate to more results. I think the big a

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Speaker 1: big misconception of this runway year is that by the

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Speaker 1: end of the season, the Cardinals needed.

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Speaker 2: To know if they had superstars or not, that's not true.

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Speaker 1: At the end of the season, the Cardinals need to

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Speaker 1: know a one which players had taken the most strides

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Speaker 1: and they can count on for twenty twenty six b

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Speaker 1: which players did not take you know, had the opposite effect,

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Speaker 1: took steps back, didn't progress, so they can adjust from there.

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Speaker 1: They are going to have answers on players at the

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Speaker 1: end of the season, regardless of what the step like,

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Speaker 1: regardless of if they all were sorry. I think the

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Speaker 1: national anthem's going off right now is very loud. Non

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine if I would have done this out

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Speaker 1: of actual stadium.

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Speaker 2: I can hear it in the media room.

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Speaker 3: I was I was going to suggest that should we sing?

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Speaker 3: Should we? I know? So anyway, go ahead, go ahead.

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Speaker 1: At the end of the runway season, the Cardinals are

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Speaker 1: going to have answers or they may not be like

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Speaker 1: every single player is a superstar, but they have always

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Speaker 1: done a very good job of developing supplementary players. And

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Speaker 1: can Nolan Gorman be that supplementary bat? I think so,

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Speaker 1: And you know it's going to take until the very

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Speaker 1: end of the season for him to prove it. But

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Speaker 1: we're definitely in a much better direction offensively for Nolan Gorman.

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Speaker 3: He's listen, he's gonna have to get better defensive. We

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Speaker 3: all know that. So I don't feel like, you know,

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Speaker 3: kind of emphasizing that because it's something we know. But

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Speaker 3: I think the more reps he gets his third base

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Speaker 3: and I know around may come back. But you know,

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Speaker 3: Gorman has not started that many games in the big

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Speaker 3: leagues at third base, and I think he's starting to

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Speaker 3: settle in a little bit. But yeah, I'm conceding that

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Speaker 3: defense is an issue. I think again, we all know that.

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Speaker 3: But here's the Here's here's the long view. I think

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Speaker 3: this ties into what you said. Here's the long view.

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Speaker 3: The long view look at Nolan Gorman. The Cardinals are

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Speaker 3: terribly short on power. They really are. Like whether if

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Speaker 3: we go bet, if we if I use like at

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Speaker 3: bats per home run, like their home run ratio, it

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Speaker 3: would be if it holds what it is now and

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Speaker 3: it's really really bad, it would be their lowest home

385
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Speaker 3: run rate since like twenty and fifteen, and then before

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Speaker 3: that twenty and fourteen. I mean, they're isolated powers, terrible

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Speaker 3: ranking their whole you know, home run rate less than

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Speaker 3: a home run per game, And I know that. I

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Speaker 3: know that there's you can't like totally depend on home runs.

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Speaker 3: And I'm not saying they should. But when you you're

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Speaker 3: not a good small ball team because you're not athletic,

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Speaker 3: you don't steal, he says, you don't run the base

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Speaker 3: as well. They don't do they don't execute small ball stuff.

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Speaker 3: I mean, look at their sacrifice bunt success rate. It's

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Speaker 3: one of the worst in baseball. What they have the

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Speaker 3: second worst productive out percentage in the National League. They

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Speaker 3: don't play small ball. They're not good at it. And

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Speaker 3: I asked Ali about that a couple three weeks ago,

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Speaker 3: and he even said, he said, that's the one thing

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Speaker 3: that disappoints me the most. And he was taking it

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Speaker 3: hard because he feels it's his responsibility. So if you

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Speaker 3: can't play small ball really really well and you can't

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Speaker 3: hit home runs, you're you're really at a disadvantage in

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Speaker 3: the power game. I would suggest to people that have

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Speaker 3: sort of thrown in the towel or think at all

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00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:44,960
Speaker 3: Gorman's never going to do anything for an organization that

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Speaker 3: is like just so bereft of power. You can't take

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Speaker 3: this lightly. This guy can make a difference. And I'm

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Speaker 3: like you. No one is saying that this is a

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Speaker 3: big superstar, but you need power in your lineup, especially

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Speaker 3: in its right handed hitting and pitching. And he's even

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Speaker 3: starting to show he can hit for power against lefties.

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Speaker 3: He's confident, he's in a good place. His head's clear.

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Speaker 3: Brent Brown's been good for him. And don't be so

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Speaker 3: quick to anyone skeptical listening to us or watching us.

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Speaker 3: And you know, I think I can say we all

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Speaker 3: love you. It's nothing personal, But don't be so quick

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Speaker 3: to like, you know, pull the plug on Nolan Gorman.

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Speaker 3: I mean, he could make a tremendous difference for this

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Speaker 3: team in the coming years, and he looks like he

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Speaker 3: might be turning the corner.

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Speaker 1: He doesn't need to be the star. A lot of

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Speaker 1: these guys don't need to be the star. Von Herrera

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Speaker 1: doesn't need to be the star of the Cardinals. Alec

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Speaker 1: Bilson doesn't need to be the star of the Cardinals,

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Speaker 1: right nol So does Nolan Gorman.

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Speaker 2: They just need. The problem with the Cardinals right now,

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Speaker 2: as we know, Bernie, is that they have so many

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Speaker 2: of the same players.

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Speaker 1: So if the Cardinals had you know, not a lot

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Speaker 1: of dh the exact opposite of what they have right now.

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Speaker 1: They have an udireactive roster of dhs. If Nolan Gorman

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Speaker 1: is one of two dhs, we're not arguing about his

434
00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:01,040
Speaker 1: future of the team or with the team, because there's

435
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,080
Speaker 1: a clear place for him as a supplementary piece.

436
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,639
Speaker 2: He's a BA first left handed power hitter with some

437
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,480
Speaker 2: serious pop. Good teams have that.

438
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,439
Speaker 1: That's a really rare thing to find, especially a homegrown talent,

439
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,200
Speaker 1: because the Cardinals have a slew of players that can

440
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,200
Speaker 1: pretty much only DH or are best served as a DH,

441
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:22,040
Speaker 1: whether that's Von Herrera, whether that's Jordan Walker when he's

442
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,359
Speaker 1: going well, whether that's Alec Burlson. Although he has taken

443
00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:28,240
Speaker 1: some strides defensively, that kind of complicates things. Now Nolan

444
00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:30,760
Speaker 1: Gorman has to find a position defensively for this to work,

445
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,040
Speaker 1: and that's where things get messy. The Cardinals have to

446
00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,960
Speaker 1: continue to force players to find somewhere to fit even

447
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,399
Speaker 1: though it doesn't best fill their skill set because of

448
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:42,040
Speaker 1: their roster construction and the roster redundancy. So Nolan Gorman,

449
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,080
Speaker 1: if we're just looking at him based on his skill

450
00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,119
Speaker 1: set and who he is as a player and what

451
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:49,040
Speaker 1: his strength suggests, he should be doing the last fifty

452
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:51,000
Speaker 1: games or so. Really out of the All Star break,

453
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,000
Speaker 1: he has shown that he is shown to be able

454
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,679
Speaker 1: to hit more consistently, hit for more power, cut the

455
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,200
Speaker 1: strikeout rate down, increase the walk rate, and.

456
00:20:58,280 --> 00:20:59,440
Speaker 2: Again hit left on left.

457
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,320
Speaker 1: That's the problem with this, as you and I have

458
00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:04,760
Speaker 1: just talked about, Bernie, is that because there are so

459
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,840
Speaker 1: many different players on the Cardinals roster that best suit

460
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:09,840
Speaker 1: as a DH, there's not a lot of room for

461
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,720
Speaker 1: one of them. The supplementary pieces are all kind of

462
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,159
Speaker 1: combined as one, and it makes it really hard to

463
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,000
Speaker 1: differentiate who has the better hand going forward. And I

464
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,560
Speaker 1: think that's the thing the Cardinals will spend September trying

465
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:21,160
Speaker 1: to figure out.

466
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 3: And I want to throw something else in here. You know,

467
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:29,000
Speaker 3: even though Nolan Gorman has gone to hell and back

468
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:32,800
Speaker 3: with his swing and miss and his whiffs and terrible slumps,

469
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,920
Speaker 3: getting sent back down to the miners two or three times, whatever,

470
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,679
Speaker 3: it is, despite all that, despite all the awful stuff

471
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:43,159
Speaker 3: that you know, his career has been these awful times.

472
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:47,120
Speaker 3: I should say, right his major league career, he's got

473
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:50,280
Speaker 3: a four to thirty three slugging percentage, and it's about

474
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,760
Speaker 3: four forty against right hand and pitching, and if you

475
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 3: go buy ops plus, he's about four or five percent

476
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:59,240
Speaker 3: above average in terms of ops plus since he's coming

477
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,920
Speaker 3: in the major leagues, and that's with all the nasty

478
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,919
Speaker 3: times he's gone through. So that should tell you something.

479
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,200
Speaker 3: And I also think too, Katie. You know, I'm assuming

480
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:10,199
Speaker 3: I would be shocked that. I'm sure you would be

481
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,280
Speaker 3: shocked or at least surprised. The Cardinals are gonna have

482
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,480
Speaker 3: to clear some left handed bats out of here. They

483
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,280
Speaker 3: just have to. The pieces don't fit. I can't believe

484
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 3: heim Bloom will go through the winner without clearing one

485
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 3: or two left handed bats out of here.

486
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:23,720
Speaker 2: We will do that, he will quick.

487
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 3: I just don't think Gorman should be one of them

488
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 3: because he has something that none of those other guys

489
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,680
Speaker 3: can give you powe right, So.

490
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 1: Anyway it is, there is staffs for Bernie. I honestly,

491
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more with that. That I think is

492
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,120
Speaker 1: the most accurate part of this whole segment was, Yes,

493
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,120
Speaker 1: there's a ton of lefty bats in this roster, as

494
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 1: we know, but Nolan Gorman has his path alone is

495
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,360
Speaker 1: something that with respective the players, the other players, none

496
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,479
Speaker 1: of those that are left handed bats can bring so.

497
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:55,960
Speaker 1: Good job, Bernie, crush the segment. We'll be right back

498
00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 1: with your cardinal territory. First, a message from True Classics.

499
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500
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,800
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501
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502
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504
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Speaker 5: and it makes you look a little jacked.

505
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Speaker 6: I'm just saying, and krat you are jacked and you

506
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Speaker 6: are spot on. True Classic is the spot to go

507
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Speaker 6: if someone's like, where do I get shirts?

508
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,440
Speaker 3: True Classic. The colors are fantastic.

509
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Speaker 6: They've sold over twenty five million shirts to more than

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Speaker 6: five million customers. Their shirts just win the feel, the

511
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Speaker 6: tailored look, the price.

512
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513
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Speaker 6: I mean Cam maybe literally can't say enough about them too.

514
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515
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516
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517
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518
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519
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 1: L All right, Bernie, as we look to wrap up

520
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 1: this episode because I believe first pitch Michael McGreevey taking

521
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 1: them ount for Saint Louis will be happening at any minute.

522
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 1: Is there something that you would like to see from

523
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 1: McGreevy tonight as he makes another start.

524
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,680
Speaker 3: No, you know, he's so he's sharp mentally and he's

525
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 3: so tough minded. I would just say, do what you

526
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 3: do because he knows how to pitch. He really knows

527
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 3: how to pitch, and it's almost like he learns every

528
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 3: inning he pitches in the major leagues. He's one of

529
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 3: these guys that he takes something away from that. He's

530
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:37,439
Speaker 3: somebody who understands why something went wrong in inning. He's

531
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 3: very self analytical, he's very self aware, and he is

532
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,439
Speaker 3: extremely focused. So I just just the more he pitches,

533
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 3: the better he's going to get. And I really enjoy

534
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,639
Speaker 3: watching him. And you know, and my conversations with Ali

535
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 3: that staff loves McGreevy. They love him because he's a bulldog.

536
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 3: He's an absolute bulldog. And I'm not saying the other

537
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 3: guys aren't, but there's some then he's got some bite.

538
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 3: There's something tough about him that stands out, and I

539
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 3: really appreciate the maturity levels off the charts too. It

540
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 3: really is because he go ahead.

541
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, no, I was about to say, I completely agree.

542
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 1: What's impressed me the most about McGreevy is his demeanor.

543
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:18,880
Speaker 1: When you're a pitch to contact guy, and we've seen

544
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: a lot of them over the last couple of years.

545
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 1: You're going to get burned every now and then, you

546
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,399
Speaker 1: know kind of balls are going to get through. But

547
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:27,959
Speaker 1: with McGreevy, when that happens, the game doesn't pick up

548
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 1: on him. It doesn't speed up, it doesn't get faster.

549
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 1: He's just like, all right, well that's kind of my game.

550
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 1: Sometimes I'm going to get hit, a slow roller is

551
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 1: going to get through. Let me attack the next guy.

552
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 1: And he's unfazed. And that kind of maturity is not

553
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 1: something that you can teach as soon as you get

554
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 1: to the big leagues.

555
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 2: That usually comes with experience.

556
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 1: He's arrived here mainly because he has so much time

557
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 1: to prep and triple A. But he's arrived here and

558
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,679
Speaker 1: he's had that demeanor and that's what makes him I

559
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 1: think a little happy. With respect to the other pictures,

560
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 1: of course, a little bit more excitement when McGreevy takes

561
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: them out, even if his prototype is very similar to

562
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,439
Speaker 1: that of a Maggie Libertore, of an Andre Polante, of

563
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 1: a Miles michaelis in terms of the ground ball rate,

564
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: his demeanor, especially for such a young, unpolished starter, it's

565
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: been the most fun thing for me to watch, at

566
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 1: least for now.

567
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we also have to look at the bigger picture,

568
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:18,239
Speaker 3: which is quickly. The Cardinals obviously need to rebuild their

569
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,680
Speaker 3: player development as far as developing starting pitching. Okay, and

570
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 3: I think they're off to a good start because I

571
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,879
Speaker 3: think Quent Matthews will be a good picture. I'm not

572
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 3: talking about this year. Hold on here, right, I'm my

573
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 3: back now, I'll be quick. He you know, Quent Matthews

574
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,639
Speaker 3: is definitely in the picture. He's got a lot of talent.

575
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 3: Liam Doyle's got a lot of talent. There's a couple

576
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 3: other guys that are dealing with injuries who have a

577
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 3: lot of talent. There's either some guys that are the

578
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 3: lower levels that are making them move up. So when

579
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 3: we talk about Michael McGreevy, because I've heard this from

580
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 3: fans a lot. We've heard like, well, okay, nice kid

581
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 3: and all that, but uh, he's not a guy that

582
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 3: you build your rotation around. He's not a number one

583
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,920
Speaker 3: or number two. Nobody's saying that he is. But if

584
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,679
Speaker 3: all the some of these other young guys are what

585
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 3: look at the independent talent evaluators, not not us, look

586
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:22,439
Speaker 3: at look at Baseball America, look at MLB pipeline, whatever,

587
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 3: Keith Low. If you build your rotation and he's he's

588
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 3: a back end starter, that's a you're gonna have a

589
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 3: really good rotation if he's your fourth.

590
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 2: Or fifthe right exactly exactly.

591
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 3: So in other words, we understand where he fits. We're

592
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 3: not over hyping him. But right now he's fun to

593
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 3: watch because you can see a future and you can

594
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 3: see a guy that he just gets it. Nothing flaky,

595
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 3: nothing flaky about it.

596
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, big, we are as we have Cardinal Territory. L

597
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: listeners know big Michael McRee enthusiasts on this show. We're

598
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 1: also big enthusiasts for I don't know, maybe a second

599
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,159
Speaker 1: Cardinals win off to a good start. Larst poop Bar

600
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:00,679
Speaker 1: has singles to lead off this ball game that I

601
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 1: need to go get to and watch. So for Bernie,

602
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 1: I'm Katie. Thanks as always for watching Cardinal territory. We'll

603
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 1: be back with you later in the week. I will

604
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: not be on the Tampa trip. I will finish up

605
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 1: with Miami, so we'll be covering from home. Looking forward

606
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: to breaking it all down, hopefully get a series win

607
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 1: here in Miami.

608
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 2: Bernie, thanks as always. We'll talk to you guys,