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Speaker 1: All right, guys, welcome back to Couch Talks on You

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Speaker 1: Need Therapy. My name is Kat and if you're new,

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Speaker 1: couch Talks is the bonus episode of You Need Therapy

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Speaker 1: where I answer questions that you guys sent to me

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Speaker 1: and if you have a question, you can send it

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Speaker 1: to Catherine at You Need Therapy podcast dot com and

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Speaker 1: then maybe one day it'll pop up on here. Now,

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Speaker 1: before we get into the question, today, we are doing

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Speaker 1: things a little differently, a quick reminder that even though

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Speaker 1: I am a therapist and I'm answering questions, this does

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Speaker 1: not serve or substitute as therapy for anybody just having

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Speaker 1: conversations on here rather than actually doing what therapy is.

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Speaker 1: But you never know, listening to something on here could

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Speaker 1: encourage you to go to therapy, and I'm all for that.

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Speaker 1: So today we have a very special episode of Couch Shocks,

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Speaker 1: because one that has been the works for about twenty years. Um.

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Speaker 1: But we have our producer Houston on with a question.

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Speaker 1: I don't know when this question popped up. It was

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Speaker 1: it after you listen to an episode or is it

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Speaker 1: just in your life this came up? It's just when

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Speaker 1: I was scrolling through Instagram. But this is probably so

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Speaker 1: to three months. I'm every day I'm like, when can

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Speaker 1: you record? And then Houston tells me, and then I'm

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Speaker 1: don't answer him, and then I just asked, well, it's

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Speaker 1: also not fair that you're two hours ahead of me,

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Speaker 1: which I forget. I do forget, so sneak peak for

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Speaker 1: all the all the listeners. Yeah, I do not live

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Speaker 1: in Nashville. Yeah, where do you live? Tell the people

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Speaker 1: where you live. I live in Spokane, Washington, so pretty

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Speaker 1: much the opposite side of very far away. If you

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Speaker 1: don't know where that is, just say I live in Seattle,

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Speaker 1: which is how far away? Five hours? That's very Whenever

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Speaker 1: he says spoke in Washington, they're like, where's that is

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Speaker 1: that close to Seattle? Yes, but people know that city.

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Speaker 1: Though I've heard of that city, I just don't. I

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Speaker 1: don't know anything about it. Well, there's not much to know. Okay,

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Speaker 1: it's pretty that's what. There's the note. It's prettier than Nashville.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, So Houston sent me this question, and I

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Speaker 1: thought it was really really good and really important and

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about it. So thank you for

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Speaker 1: even thinking of this question, having this question and thank

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Speaker 1: you for taking time out of your day, which you

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Speaker 1: do a lot, so this means a lot and is important. Well,

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Speaker 1: thank you for having me, of course, So let's just

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Speaker 1: get into it. Tell the people what you are wondering. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So I was scrolling through Instagram and I follow a

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Speaker 1: YouTuber and his wife on Instagram, they have about twenty

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Speaker 1: million subscribers. It's the account them together. It's not like

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Speaker 1: you follow his wife and then you also follow the YouTuber.

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Speaker 1: Their account is separate. Is him and her separate accounts.

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Speaker 1: But then on YouTube, there one one thing, And so

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Speaker 1: I was scrolling through her account, and she normally promotes

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Speaker 1: fitness and stuff and that she's working out and whatever.

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Speaker 1: Nothing bad there. But then I was scrolling one night

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Speaker 1: and then I see that she is bragging about how

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Speaker 1: she is now on this very fancy diet and going

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Speaker 1: to lose all this weight and his heart already lost

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Speaker 1: a lot of weight because she is only drinking bone broth.

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Speaker 1: And it raised a concern to me because the people

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Speaker 1: that subscribe to them are mostly little kids are or

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Speaker 1: teens or something like that, so the most vulnerable, and

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Speaker 1: they are looked up to like they are they're full

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Speaker 1: on celebrities, and so anybody who looks up to people

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Speaker 1: normally is like, oh, they're using that product. I'll try

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Speaker 1: that out. And I started scrolling through the comments and

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Speaker 1: there are a few other people saying you probably shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be promoting this, And so my question is should I

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Speaker 1: make a comment be like you probably shouldn't be doing this,

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Speaker 1: like think of your fan base and you might be

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Speaker 1: influencing people more than you think you are. Or do

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Speaker 1: I just leave it and let it go? But then

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Speaker 1: if I should say something, how would I say that?

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Speaker 1: What do you even say? So such a good question.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about like this specific situation, and

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Speaker 1: then I want to broaden that out to like even

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Speaker 1: if that was like one of your friends, what would

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Speaker 1: you do? And should you say something? So this seems

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Speaker 1: bigger since they have such an influence, right. I am

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Speaker 1: a big fan of using the term calling somebody in

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Speaker 1: versus calling somebody out, So a lot of times when

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Speaker 1: you see stuff like this, I mean, I'll use like

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Speaker 1: Gwyneth Paltrow put some I'll use the word dumb book

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Speaker 1: out about intuitive fasting or something. And if you read

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Speaker 1: the comments, they were like ruthless and I don't think

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Speaker 1: she cared about them. I don't know her, but I

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Speaker 1: don't think she really cared about them. And part of that,

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Speaker 1: I think is when you are being like called out

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Speaker 1: like that is a very icky feeling, and it then

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Speaker 1: elicits somebody to feel immediately defensive and then defend their

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Speaker 1: behavior rather than hear what you're saying. I don't even

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Speaker 1: want to have a conversation. I'm going to try to

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Speaker 1: convince you that, like, I'm not a bad person, I'm

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Speaker 1: not doing anything wrong. That's the call out culture, where

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Speaker 1: it's like you suck, you're canceled. I can't believe you're

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Speaker 1: doing this. You shouldn't do this, Like do you even

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Speaker 1: know what's blah blah blah. It can sound in a

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Speaker 1: million different ways versus like call in, which is where

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Speaker 1: you kindly in in a caring way, in a non

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Speaker 1: threatening way, offer information, like offer somebody a different perspective.

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Speaker 1: Because I believe that most people are good. Most people

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Speaker 1: are good. I don't think that this person probably put

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Speaker 1: this out there negligent wanting to harm people. She probably

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Speaker 1: thinks it's working for her, right, Yeah, you didn't think

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Speaker 1: that either. She probably it sounds like it feels like

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Speaker 1: it's working for her, she's excited about it, she wants

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Speaker 1: to share it, she thinks it's cool. Okay, So what

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Speaker 1: you're doing is by calling somebody in it's hey, I

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Speaker 1: want to offer you another perspective of how I saw

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Speaker 1: this post or how I experienced your post, or what

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Speaker 1: your post brought up for me. So the question about

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Speaker 1: should I say something, I think yes, if you feel

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Speaker 1: like if you want to, yes, there's no reason that

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Speaker 1: you should not say something, especially on a public platform

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Speaker 1: where people are like, that's she's posting this, so she's

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Speaker 1: welcoming feedback, whether or not she actually thinks that or not.

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Speaker 1: So if you want to, if it feels like something

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Speaker 1: that you think is right, then yes, do it. The

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Speaker 1: encouragement would be how would you do it? Calling in

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Speaker 1: versus calling out? And then the other part is when

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Speaker 1: it's somebody like that, like a public figure, you're also

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Speaker 1: doing that with kind of the mindset of like they

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Speaker 1: really might not care, right and they might or they

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Speaker 1: might not see it, so which is more probably the case? Right?

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Speaker 1: And So the question I would ask you or whoever

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Speaker 1: is experiencing this is what's the why behind saying something?

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Speaker 1: Why would you want to say something. It could be

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Speaker 1: a million different reasons if you would ask yourself that, like,

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Speaker 1: why would you if you're like, okay, I understand this

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Speaker 1: call out first call in, I can do that. I

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Speaker 1: want to call her in why because I want to

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Speaker 1: change your mind? Because I want to why to let

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Speaker 1: her know that maybe her influence is more powerful than

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Speaker 1: she realizes. Yeah, so to give her another perspective with

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Speaker 1: the expectation of what what would be your expectation thinking

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Speaker 1: more about posting that kind of stuff in the future

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Speaker 1: and maybe maybe not. Yeah, so, which is a fine

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Speaker 1: expectation because you're maybe maybe think about it, but maybe

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Speaker 1: not you are going to as what's a fine expectation.

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Speaker 1: But I always caution people because we can get really

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Speaker 1: wrapped up and this stuff. And I used to get

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Speaker 1: so wrapped up in this where I'm like I have

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Speaker 1: to tell everybody that's doing these things and I to

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Speaker 1: change the world that Okay, I need to make sure

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Speaker 1: that my expectations are realistic. Where if this person has

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Speaker 1: first of all, with anybody, I don't have the power

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Speaker 1: to change anybody's mind, So my why can be It

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Speaker 1: would be really nice if they would really hear this

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Speaker 1: and think about it. Also, it's because of my integrity,

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Speaker 1: like to stay inside my integrity. It's when I see

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Speaker 1: something and I see where I can maybe offer some

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Speaker 1: insight that feels right and good for me to do,

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Speaker 1: versus ignore the problem. So I think going into it

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Speaker 1: with realistic expectations is very important. Now that's a little

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Speaker 1: different if it's like your friend. Yes, right, let's say

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Speaker 1: your friend. You know they're gonna read it, like you

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Speaker 1: know they're going to see it. So how might you

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Speaker 1: approach that if you Because this I'm sure happens to

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Speaker 1: I mean, it happens to me. I see people and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I really don't want you to do that.

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Speaker 1: I think then you would wanna not put them on

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Speaker 1: blast on social media and make comment. Right you you

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Speaker 1: want to call them or do it in person or

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Speaker 1: something right, depending on the level of relationship, right, that matches.

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Speaker 1: So if it's just like an acquaintance, I might d

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Speaker 1: M them. If it is my best friend, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to drive to her house. If it's a friend that

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Speaker 1: lives across the country, I might call. But that is

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Speaker 1: going to look a little different. But it's the same

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Speaker 1: thing of calling in versus calling out. Because when we

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Speaker 1: call out, then they're going to get defensive and then

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Speaker 1: that's not going to really go well. But what I'm

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Speaker 1: calling in it's like, hey, I saw this thing, this

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Speaker 1: is what it brought up for me. I wonder if

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Speaker 1: you've ever thought about it this way. And I also

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Speaker 1: want to know more about like your intentions, because I

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Speaker 1: don't want to make assumptions either. So can we just

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Speaker 1: have a conversation about you post let's say they're posting

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Speaker 1: bone broth. Can we have a conversation about this bone

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Speaker 1: broth thing? Because I've been learning a lot about it

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Speaker 1: in in in diet culture in general, and it just

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Speaker 1: kind of scared me and I care about you. There's

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Speaker 1: a conversation. Again, there's space for us to be very

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Speaker 1: aware of our expectations because they still might be like,

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Speaker 1: you don't know what you're talking about. My doctor told

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Speaker 1: me that I can do that, Like there might still

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Speaker 1: be that. But again it goes back to like my

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Speaker 1: integrity as a friend. It's very kind and caring for

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Speaker 1: me to speak when I see something rather than just

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Speaker 1: see it, get annoyed and then talk about it with

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Speaker 1: somebody else. So does that answer your question fully? I

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Speaker 1: think so? Going back to like the celebrities and the

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Speaker 1: influencers doing this. I do think that is a really

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Speaker 1: important that specifically. I don't think I've talked about that.

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Speaker 1: I've talked about how to approach like friends and family members,

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Speaker 1: but how do I approach these Instagram influencers specifically or

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Speaker 1: YouTube or whatever who. On the episode with Nabiha, we

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Speaker 1: talked about how influencers work and how like the fact

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Speaker 1: that they make a living off of kind of being

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Speaker 1: like normal people and kind of being relatable kind of

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Speaker 1: messes with us and that's like a huge responsibility to

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Speaker 1: have as an influencer. And I'm sure, well, I don't

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Speaker 1: know what it's like, but like, I'm sure there's some

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Speaker 1: essence of like, oh, I can't say anything, right, There's

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Speaker 1: always going to be something that somebody has a comment about,

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Speaker 1: right when when you have that much power. At the

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Speaker 1: same time, like, we can only know what we know.

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Speaker 1: So it's not like you're telling them your outfit sucks.

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Speaker 1: I just want you to know that your outfit sucks.

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Speaker 1: I don't like that or like I want you to

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Speaker 1: like you're saying, hey, this is scary, this feels harmful.

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Speaker 1: I know you're probably not feeling or expecting this to

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Speaker 1: be a harmful because I assume that you're a good person,

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Speaker 1: but this is how it felt to me. Boom, So,

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Speaker 1: are you gonna go comment? Are you gonna go send

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Speaker 1: this person a message? This was a long time ago.

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Speaker 1: Well so I did. I did comment, okay at that time,

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Speaker 1: but I was trying to find it while you were talking,

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Speaker 1: and I think she might have hold it stop. Do

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Speaker 1: you know are there other comments that are saying stuff

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Speaker 1: about it on there? When I commented, I saw two

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Speaker 1: other comments of people being like this is kind of

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Speaker 1: like disordered eating. They were Mine was a little longer,

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Speaker 1: and there's were pretty just like a one sentence kind

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Speaker 1: of thing. I wish I could find it. I'm kind

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Speaker 1: of mad. So she has two point seven million followers

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Speaker 1: just on Instagram, so you know there was more than

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Speaker 1: just three comments. I think. You know what is um

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Speaker 1: an interesting perspective that a friend of mine gave me

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Speaker 1: When I had posted something and I got like feedback

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Speaker 1: that I didn't like. I was like so upset and

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Speaker 1: I was like, I'm just turning the comments off, and

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Speaker 1: my friend was like, you don't get to do that.

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Speaker 1: He was like, if you are going to put a

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Speaker 1: opinion or perspective. If you're going to put information out

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Speaker 1: somewhere for people to see that isn't like always factual.

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Speaker 1: It might be your active. You have got to be

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Speaker 1: willing to take in both sides of it. And I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know, I know, I say that all the time.

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Speaker 1: It feels different me, but yeah, but I I took

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Speaker 1: that to heart, and I'm like, yeah, you're right if

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Speaker 1: somebody says something, unless it's like just really mean, Like

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Speaker 1: if somebody says something really mean, like take it down.

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Speaker 1: But if somebody's just like, hey, I noticed this or

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Speaker 1: I saw this, or I want you to I don't

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Speaker 1: get to only take in the like affirmations. I think

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Speaker 1: that's fair. Now, not everybody is going to adhere to

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Speaker 1: that because it's I mean, it's their Instagram. They can

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Speaker 1: do what they want. But that's scary to take that. See,

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Speaker 1: she saw that, and she said, I'm not willing to

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Speaker 1: have this conversation just I mean, they're prerogative. She's not

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Speaker 1: willing to have the conversation. This is kind of a

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Speaker 1: side note, but on the same kind of topic. When

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Speaker 1: I was in college, I became really good friends and

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Speaker 1: still am really good friends with a guy and he

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Speaker 1: had a really bad drinking problem and are kind of

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Speaker 1: little friend group tried helping him and everything, and he

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Speaker 1: wouldn't you want to go to because I mean, the

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Speaker 1: campus has all sorts of resources. I went to therapy

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Speaker 1: on the campus because somebody drugged me there. In the end,

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Speaker 1: it was very thankful that she did that. But he

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Speaker 1: just wouldn't accept anything that we were saying or what

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Speaker 1: we wanted him to do. And so I eventually said,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to call you out on Instagram. So like,

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Speaker 1: your parents don't know about what this is happening. I'm

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Speaker 1: friends with your parents on here, and you're going to

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Speaker 1: be tagged in this, so obviously they're going to see it.

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Speaker 1: And he didn't believe me, and so I ended up posting,

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Speaker 1: and so then what happened. I think it's still on

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Speaker 1: my on my feed. It got him to stop. It worked,

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Speaker 1: and then I said, I'll give you if you can

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Speaker 1: now not drink for six months, I'll buy you tickets

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Speaker 1: to this concert that we really want to both go to,

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Speaker 1: and there's there's your reward at the end. And ever

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Speaker 1: since this has been years and now he's still perfect. Okay, Okay,

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Speaker 1: so that I'm glad you said that, because what you're

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Speaker 1: also talking about is sometimes when we offer information or

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Speaker 1: feedback or perspective, that's one thing, but if the behavior

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Speaker 1: or whatever is working for them, there's no point for

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Speaker 1: them to stop. So if this woman is like my

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Speaker 1: bone broth life is just helping me live my best life,

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Speaker 1: I don't need this, right, there's no consequence, and she

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Speaker 1: doesn't see the harm she's doing, right, So it's like

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Speaker 1: I can delete these and and just ignore that. So

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Speaker 1: there's no consequence. So there's no reason for me to stop.

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Speaker 1: As human beings, if something's working for us, we're going

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Speaker 1: to keep doing it. So for you, for your friend,

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Speaker 1: it's like, well, what are you gonna do? There's no consequence, Like,

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Speaker 1: there's no consequence. That actually matters to me. They might

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Speaker 1: have consequences, but you're like, yeah, look, I'm gonna give

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Speaker 1: you a consequence. And I think that's important to talk

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Speaker 1: about because I think a lot of times. Now here's

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Speaker 1: the other thing. We can't We can't make people do

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Speaker 1: things if they don't want to do them. We can't

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Speaker 1: make people change if they don't want to change. Like

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Speaker 1: that's one of the hardest parts of being a therapist

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Speaker 1: is I can want you to change so much, but

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Speaker 1: if you don't want to do it, you're not going

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Speaker 1: to do it. So there's there's that part that is

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Speaker 1: very important to acknowledge. But I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: times when we do have friends that we see are struggling,

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Speaker 1: we're afraid to upset them. We're afraid to hurt their

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Speaker 1: feelings or piss them off across a boundary. But when

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Speaker 1: it comes to this kind of stuff, I'm like, screw

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Speaker 1: the boundaries. Like if I see my friend continuously engaging

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Speaker 1: an abusive relationship, or continuously engaging and eating disordered behaviors,

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Speaker 1: or continuously using drugs or alcohol in a way that

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Speaker 1: is really harmful, like I'm I can't make you stop,

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Speaker 1: but I'm I'm going to have to sit as a

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Speaker 1: good friend, sit with a discomfort of maybe making or

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Speaker 1: doing something that elicits ikey feelings in you. And it's

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Speaker 1: so hard. It's so because that wasn't like fun to

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Speaker 1: post that. No, I didn't want to do that right

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Speaker 1: and I didn't know it would work. Yeah, that's like

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Speaker 1: that was a shot in the dark. Yeah, which is

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Speaker 1: I think is so cool. I had a friend who

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Speaker 1: had an eating disorder in college. And it's like one

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Speaker 1: of those things where I don't know if this is

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Speaker 1: like your friend, but like everybody's talking about it. We're

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Speaker 1: all talking about it, but nobody's doing anything. And I did.

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Speaker 1: I finally did something, and it wasn't met with kindness,

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Speaker 1: like it was met with like a cold shoulder of

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Speaker 1: like mind your business, I'm fine, and never spoke of

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Speaker 1: it again. We went to different schools, so I didn't

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Speaker 1: see her that often, but years later she reached out

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Speaker 1: to me and was like, one, I want to say

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Speaker 1: sorry and to thank you. You're the only person that

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Speaker 1: said anything to me. And sometimes all it takes is

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Speaker 1: one person, And I think that's this like space of

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Speaker 1: like this goes into the whole conversation of having the

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Speaker 1: courage to do the thing that you would want somebody

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Speaker 1: to do for you. Right if I was posting something

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Speaker 1: really like harmful on Instagram, like please tell me now,

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Speaker 1: you can DM me or text me. You don't have

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Speaker 1: to comment, but like do the thing that you would

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Speaker 1: want something some need to do for you because I

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Speaker 1: don't want to harm anybody, Or if I was acting

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Speaker 1: out in my eating disorder and my best friends solid

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Speaker 1: I would want her to tell me. I might be

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Speaker 1: like pissed, I might be like, mind your business, but

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Speaker 1: I also want them to tell me like I want

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Speaker 1: my people to show up. And so having the courage

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Speaker 1: to do the uncomfortable thing, I think is is really important.

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Speaker 1: Not everybody's willing to do that. So look at you

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Speaker 1: commenting and posting, changing the world asking the question just

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Speaker 1: try yeah all we need? So I think that that was. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I loved answering this question. And if anybody has like specifics,

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Speaker 1: I wonder, like things that they've seen where they felt

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Speaker 1: like they didn't have the space to say something on

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Speaker 1: Instagram or something along those lines, send that to us,

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Speaker 1: because I would. I'm assuming that we're all seeing stuff

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Speaker 1: like this, and especially these days. Yeah, and what Instagram

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Speaker 1: does is it gives us a lot of information, but

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Speaker 1: it also gives us power to use our voice in

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Speaker 1: a different way. So there's something cool in that. I think.

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Speaker 1: Anything else on that final words, anything you just want

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Speaker 1: to say to the people, Uh, Hi, people know I

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Speaker 1: got They probably appreciate that. Um okay, Well that wraps

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Speaker 1: up this episode of Couch Talks. Again, if you have

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Speaker 1: questions or again, if you have experiences like Houston Hat

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Speaker 1: and you want to share it, you can send it

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Speaker 1: to Catherine at You Need Therapy podcast dot com and

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Speaker 1: uh yeah, thanks for being here. Have the day, the week,

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Speaker 1: the hour you need to have and I will talk

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Speaker 1: to you guys on Monday