1 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of the podcast Strictly Business, in 2 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: which we talked with some of the brightest minds working 3 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: in media today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety. Whether you've 4 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:18,920 Speaker 1: lived under a rock or not for the past ten years, 5 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: you know of the unscripted TV jug or not that 6 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: is keeping up with the Kardashians. The series is produced 7 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: by Buna Murray, a production company that has done so 8 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 1: much more than the Kardashians, dating way back to the 9 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: reality genre seminal Hit the Real World. Buna Murray CEO 10 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: Gil gold Shine is with me today to talk about 11 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 1: the unscripted business and his company's place in it. Thanks 12 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 1: for coming in, Gil, Thank you for having me so. 13 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 1: I mean, it's funny Buna Murray. To me, it's one 14 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 1: of the few production companies like I think of that 15 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: I feel like brands itself in a way that dating 16 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: back to the real world, it just kind of always 17 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: stuck in my head. It wasn't just an MTV show, 18 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: it was Buna. I mean, do you feel like there 19 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: is that brand cloud that comes with the company? Absolutely, 20 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: And I mean it's something that we're really proud of 21 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,559 Speaker 1: and something that we really foster. I always tell people 22 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: there are two major tenants of who Bunimury is as 23 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: a company, and one of them is a pioneer. John 24 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: and the late Maris Bunum were credited with creating the 25 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: reality genre with The Real World back for MTV, and 26 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: that pioneering spirit is what drives me and drives every 27 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:30,839 Speaker 1: member of our team and has for the past thirty 28 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: two years, is we want to tell stories that you 29 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: haven't heard before. We want to find characters that the 30 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: audience hasn't seen before. So that's really just like the 31 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 1: Real World was genre busting and pioneering. We're trying to 32 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: find that in every series that we do. And I mean, 33 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: I think a great example that would be Born this Way, 34 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: which was an Emmy Award winning series that we did 35 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: for A and E and showcasing the ability within the 36 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: disability of seven young adults with downs in Drone And 37 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: that's something that we felt strongly was a story that 38 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: should be told, and it took us years to get 39 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: on the air, but it's something we never gave up 40 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: on and really persevered until we found the right partner 41 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: distribution partner that was willing to put that on the air. 42 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:18,119 Speaker 1: But the business has changed a lot since the real 43 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 1: world first put your company on the map. And to 44 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: be clear, you haven't been with the company since the 45 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: very beginning. When did you start? Correct? I started as 46 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 1: their in house lawyer in two thousand and one and 47 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: transition to the CEO. I transitioned to president CEO in 48 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: two thousand seven, running the business, and then officially CEO 49 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 1: in two thousand fifteen. And so I bet even in 50 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: that short amount of time that you were in the 51 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: top post, things have probably gotten very different in recent years. 52 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: What's it like being out in the marketplace? Oh, things 53 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: have gotten different from one week to the next. Uh So, 54 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: it really is amazing to see our genre evolved. I remember, 55 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: going all the way back to two thousand one or 56 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 1: mid two thousand's when we would come to it's like 57 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: this or more industry specific like nappy or real screen screen, 58 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: and inevitably somebody in the audience would always ask, is 59 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,679 Speaker 1: this reality thing just a fad? Is this going to 60 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: go away? And that's a question I haven't heard in 61 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: ten years. But with that said, I think the genre 62 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 1: has continued to evolve. And what also amazes me is 63 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: the international component. I used to go with a colleague 64 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: of mine to mip COOM, which was an international um 65 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 1: conference for buyers from all over the world, and we 66 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: would be trying to sell some of our shows. This 67 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: was before we sold the company to banaje A. And 68 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: it's amazing to see in those territories sometimes still had 69 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 1: two or three channels, while here in the US we had, 70 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 1: you know, at that time, even if you had network 71 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: and cable, you know, five D channels. So what's happening now, 72 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: just not only in the US or around the world, 73 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: is the fragmentation and so many different places where you 74 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: can find programming. I wouldn't imagine that back in the 75 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: early in the mid two thousand's, early two thousands that 76 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: the genre would become this multi alti billion dollar industry. 77 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: And it's interesting when you think of the post five 78 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: channel universe and the Real World back all these years later, 79 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: but it's on Facebook Watch, I mean streamers. I assume 80 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: if there's any one thing that has changed the game, 81 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 1: is just this this explosion of new buyers. Yeah, and 82 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: what's interesting for us as a seller, as a content 83 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: creator is being able to tell stories in new ways. 84 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: I always tell people back in when Real World was 85 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: sold to MTV. MTV was known for music videos, you 86 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 1: weren't doing reality programming, so in essence, the Real World 87 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 1: that was a new platform for that show. And now 88 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: cut to two thousand eighteen, two thousand nineteen, when we 89 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 1: were producing Endless Summer for Snapchat, we got twenty eight 90 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: million unique views viewers. That's a new platform. Or when 91 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: we take Real World back to Facebook, there's still issues. 92 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: The issues we were dealing with Ino were different, but 93 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 1: there were issues and of diversity, et cetera. That that 94 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: was a social experiment and we're trying to do now 95 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 1: is well, what are the what are the issues of today? 96 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: And with what's going to resonate with the youthful audience 97 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 1: of today. So some of those brands, like a Real 98 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 1: World or format like that absolutely can resonate with a 99 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 1: modern day audience. And for us as wanting to tell 100 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: these stories, these platforms are great because it allows us 101 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 1: to tell stories in a different way and potentially work 102 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 1: with different tools, whether it's filming for Snapchat, it's a 103 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: five to seven minute storytelling mechanism that we weren't able 104 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,359 Speaker 1: to do and that's exciting from a creative perspective that 105 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: we get the opportunity too to work with that new 106 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: platform and new technology to tell stories that resonates with 107 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: today's youth and audience that is different than what we 108 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: were dealing with back in the early days. Well, speaking 109 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 1: of different, is the deal making with the facebooks and 110 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 1: snaps of the world significantly different than say the broadcast 111 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: and cable players you were used to Yes and no. 112 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: In some sense, I think it's really a case by 113 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 1: case basis. It depends whether we're talking about a docuseries, 114 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: depends whether you're talking about a format. I mean, I 115 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: think to me, the biggest differentiation or a point that 116 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: really still has to be worked out. And I think 117 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 1: as this continues to evolve and more and more streamers 118 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: come online this year and as we go forward, it's 119 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 1: going to be a rights issue where, especially if you're 120 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 1: talking about a format that has potential to to go 121 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: around the world and be global, streamers want to control 122 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: all of those rights, and then you have these typical 123 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: larger companies, international companies that control the rights that they're 124 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,160 Speaker 1: they're used to selling on a territory by territory basis, 125 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: and that doesn't necessarily line up right now with how 126 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: the streamers are trying to structure their deal. So I 127 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,839 Speaker 1: think ultimately that's probably one of the biggest sticking points. 128 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: How do you work around that some of them and 129 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 1: it's giving away those rights in perpetuity. So I think 130 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 1: it comes down like everything else in our business, it's 131 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: leverage and how many different buyers want that particular project 132 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: To the extent that you're for and enough to be 133 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 1: in a position where you have multiple offers on the table. Obviously, 134 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: that gives you leverage from a from a business perspective. 135 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: To the extent you don't, then these are the hard 136 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: decisions where you said, well, wait a minute, I'd rather 137 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: hold onto the rights and not sell it, or is 138 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: there another model? And I'm a firm believer that I 139 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: think the models will continue to evolve because there's just 140 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: way too much competition right now and this is still 141 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: all going to be worked out this year and going 142 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: into the future. You mentioned your parent company, Banna Jay 143 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: earlier um, who are as we record this, fresh off 144 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: the acquisition of yet another reality production house, Powerhouse in 145 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: into mal Shine. You guys are now ten years in 146 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: the fold. What does that meant to have a company 147 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 1: of that size at your back? It's been great. It's 148 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: been a great relationship internally, I think to have international 149 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: distribution built in. I had mentioned earlier that a colleague 150 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: of mine we used to go before the bannage a 151 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: days and and and show up to the to Mipcom, 152 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: where you have ten thousand people from all over the world. 153 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: And at that point I was just cold calling people 154 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: looking in the book, you know, trying to find, Okay, 155 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: which territory do I think might be interested in this 156 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: project that we happen to retain the rights too, And 157 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: that was difficult. I had to have these meetings, the 158 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: thirty minute quick meetings, and I'm trying to sell the 159 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: rights to a certain series. So to be able to 160 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: become part of a group that has people who do 161 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: this for a career, they have the rolodex, they have 162 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 1: the relationships. So international distribution has been great to be 163 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: able to have them on our side. Obviously a robust 164 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: catalog that we get to see of what's working around 165 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 1: the around the world and other territories that we could 166 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: potentially go ahead and bring an adapt in the US. 167 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 1: Also to be able, quite honestly what I always love. 168 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: We also have creative meetings a few times a year 169 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 1: where some of the top people creative people from around 170 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: the world will get together around the table and share 171 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: ideas about what they're developing. And what I love about 172 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: that is inevitably we always find certain trends and you 173 00:08:57,840 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: see that their global trends, like a lot of us, 174 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: even though we're not talking to one another, were unilaterally 175 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 1: in some ways developing in similar spaces. So I love 176 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: focusing on that and seeing where these global trends are 177 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 1: and that even if it's not the right creative to 178 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: know that we're in the right in the right lane, 179 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: and on the right path, because this is what's resonating 180 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: not just what we think in the US with our audience, 181 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: but potentially on a global basis. So I think with 182 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: that said, I think it's also great from a scale 183 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: perspective to be able to have that scale and be 184 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: part of a larger company, whether it's the rights negotiation, 185 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: which we touched upon. So when you when you're part 186 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: of a larger group, that helps and you have access 187 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,959 Speaker 1: to a lot more creativity because at the end of 188 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 1: the day, it's a numbers game. Who knows where that 189 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 1: next big idea is going to come from? As we 190 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: saw right now recently Massinger huge success in the US 191 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,599 Speaker 1: South Korean format, So a few years ago you have 192 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: some huge formats coming out of Israel. So it's a 193 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:55,719 Speaker 1: matter of now that we're part of a group with 194 00:09:55,760 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: a lot of different sister companies across the globe. We're 195 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 1: hoping that obviously I'd like us to be the ones 196 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 1: to create that next big, huge format that that travels 197 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: around the world. But to the extent it's a sister 198 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: company of ours in a foreign territory and we get 199 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 1: the rights to produce it in the US. I think 200 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 1: that's a win win. And you also have another interesting 201 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: collaboration with the sister company, Yellow Bird, which is actually 202 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: taking you into the scripted business, right, I mean were 203 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: you're probably already there, yes, So it's interesting because we 204 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,319 Speaker 1: were over the years we've we've dabbled in scripted. It's 205 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: not what we're known for. But for us, the driving 206 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: factors really, is there a great story, do we think 207 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: great characters, And to the extent that there were certain 208 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 1: properties that we that we found that we thought would 209 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: make sense in the scripted space. We've we've either optioned 210 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 1: or gone out and pitched those and we've done some pilots, 211 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: And what really came out of this was, yes, the relationship, 212 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: a great relationship with the CEO of the Scanner who 213 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 1: oversees all of Scandinavia, a personal fan of the work 214 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: that Yellow Bird was doing internationally, seeing what was happening, 215 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: the proliferation of streamers and storytelling and more and more 216 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 1: investment the drama space, and felt that there was a 217 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 1: real opportunity for Buna Murray who wasn't necessarily well known 218 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 1: in this scripted space, but have relationships and contacts and 219 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:13,319 Speaker 1: sort of a point of view within the US partnering 220 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: and doing a joint venture with our sister company, Yellow Bird, 221 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: that has fifteen to twenty years of experience in the 222 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:24,559 Speaker 1: drama space, and felt, can we find stories that can 223 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: resonate globally and these amazing stories that can be told 224 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: both for the US market and and abroad. And so 225 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: it's whether it was stuff that they had in their way, 226 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 1: they have properties that they had in their catalog, relationships 227 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: that they had with scandy writers, and then also looking 228 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: at the US market for specific type of dramas that 229 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: resonated are on on brand for Yellow Birds. So we've 230 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,839 Speaker 1: got several projects that we've already set up nothing I 231 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: could announce as of yet, but we're hoping this year 232 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: to be able to announce a few projects. But Mary 233 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,559 Speaker 1: Ann Gray, who runs that department, came in hit the 234 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: ground running, has a great small a department and have 235 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: numerous projects already at different phases of development. But what 236 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: descripted mean to you is this something where it's like, oh, 237 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: we we've gotta you know, be as we have to 238 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:14,439 Speaker 1: have fifty fifty company scripted and unscripted, or it's just 239 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 1: sort of like, hey, let's try this. So Yellow Bird 240 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: is scripted, and I mean in terms of your own 241 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: ambitions at Bun and Murray and how exposed your company 242 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: should be to the scripted right, So with Buna Murray 243 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: and that's why I like the Yellow Bird. Well, so 244 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: the Yellow Bird, we're being very very um specific to 245 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 1: that brand and that's scandy no our drama. So if 246 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: we find a great story that's comedy or more youthful, 247 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: that might be something I would run through Buna Murray. 248 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: But Bun and Murray isn't really focused on the scripted space. 249 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: If a project comes in, there's some stuff in animation 250 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: we have, Like I said, something youthful. We also have 251 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: a kids and Family division. So to the extent there's 252 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: anything in the scripted space through those departments that will 253 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: we'll go ahead. But we are still predominantly in Our 254 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 1: main focus is unscripted, and we'll take some shots on 255 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: the scripted side, but it's not a large percentage. Yellow 256 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,559 Speaker 1: Bird is really where the focus is, and again mainly 257 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: on drama. Another interesting collaboration where I should say investment 258 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 1: is what you've done with share ability, which is, you know, 259 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:19,199 Speaker 1: a data company, talk about what. I've never heard of 260 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: a deal like this, so walk me through it. So 261 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: it's interesting. So look, we we pride ourselves on on 262 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 1: having our finger on the pulse of what we think 263 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 1: will resonate with the audience and what they're interested in. 264 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: Whether that's characters, whether it's finding a family like the Kardashians, 265 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 1: or whether that's finding interesting worlds to to to focus 266 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: on and tell stories about. But as I take a 267 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: step back and look at the industry as a whole, 268 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: and you hear a lot about data. Right, you have Netflix, 269 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 1: who has their algorithm that's deciding on whether or not 270 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: sort of what shows they're picking up or what shows 271 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 1: they're not picking up in a lot of the other streamers. 272 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 1: We don't need to name them all, but they're they're 273 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: very data heavy, and UM as a production company, as 274 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: a studio, as a creator, we don't have that information. 275 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: So what we're relying on, you know, our gut, our research, 276 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: and we're out there in the marketplace. So for me, 277 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: it was important to try to add another layer of 278 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: informing ourselves and being able to go in with the 279 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: strongest pitch possible when we walk into a network, so 280 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: with a partner like share Ability and what they were 281 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: able to do and have consistently done, I think over 282 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: thirty times. UM the CEO Tim Staples, who's brilliant, wrote 283 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: a book called Breaking Through the Noise is and they 284 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: came from the brand side, an agency side. Is they 285 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 1: have found a way to come up with creative content 286 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: that does that and and reaches tens of millions and 287 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: not hundreds of millions of viewers. So on the one hand, 288 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: it's really a twofold approach. One is on the front 289 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: end of that is what can we learn about trends 290 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: carry actors, UM worlds from the data that they're able 291 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: to pull together with their own proprietary ways of doing 292 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: so that I'm not privy to do. But whatever they do, 293 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: what can we learn on the front end, and whether 294 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: that's if we come up with a creative idea and 295 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: then incubate it with them and try to just find 296 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: out where the interest lies, or if there's certain things 297 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: that they're seeing in trends in their day to day business, 298 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 1: then going ahead and utilizing and taking that information and 299 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: walking into a network and being able to say to them, 300 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: here's a great concept. But by the way, I already 301 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: know we have an audience. So I would say it's 302 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 1: akin to back maybe five ten years ago in the 303 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: industry when a company like ours can walk into a 304 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: network and say, oh, we just optioned this show from 305 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: this foreign territory. This is what the ratings were like, 306 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 1: this is what the market share was. We had a 307 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: story to tell and a rating story, a success story, 308 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: and that would go into their analysis of whether or 309 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: not they would want to pick up the show. Trying 310 00:15:57,720 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: to do the same thing now with data on the 311 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: front end, we walk in and say, here are how 312 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 1: many millions of people's viewed this, This is how many 313 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: millions of people are talking about this topic, whatever it 314 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: might be. That's on the front end. On the back 315 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: end is we want to be able to utilize it 316 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: really as a marketing tool as well. So assuming that 317 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: we have success on the front end when we walk 318 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: into the network and they buy it because they see, Wow, 319 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: there really is an appetite for this type of show 320 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: and there's an audience there, then we want to be 321 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: able to go back out after we have that show 322 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 1: air on whatever the distribution platform it is, then have 323 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: them go back and now market that show back to 324 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 1: those people that we know are interested in doing that. 325 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: That is definitely something I've never heard of before. That's 326 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: pretty innovative approach. Um I mentioned off the top of 327 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: the Kardashians. I mean, would you have thought when this 328 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 1: jug ornaut began rolling out I don't even know how 329 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 1: many years ago now, at least ten two thousand seven, okay, um, 330 00:16:56,280 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 1: that it would still be going today. No, Um, Yes, 331 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: and no. I guess the truth is I jumped to 332 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 1: no too quick because and I mentioned this earlier on 333 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: a panel by design. Look at Buna Murray as a 334 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: company has launched numerous franchises. I mean franchises are brands 335 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 1: with a lot of the show Real World when for 336 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 1: thirty plus seasons, the challenge is going you know, thirty 337 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:25,400 Speaker 1: five plus seasons. Kardashians are now in season eighteen. Uh, 338 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: Diva's Bellas. A lot of the series that we produce 339 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: go for numerous so that doesn't just happen. There's work 340 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: starting with season one. We do everything we can to 341 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:35,639 Speaker 1: try to make sure that we get to a season 342 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 1: two and season three. So part of it is as 343 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: a company, we really try to keep things fresh and 344 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: and and make sure that the show continues to to 345 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: evolve and and stay relevant. UM. So that's what we 346 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,160 Speaker 1: do on our side. From a family perspective, Yet one 347 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 1: wouldn't think, especially at the level of celebrity and success 348 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 1: that they're now at, that is you know, no, I 349 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:00,080 Speaker 1: would not have thought that it would be going on 350 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: as long as it is. But what's amazing about the 351 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 1: family um is how open they are. And I think 352 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: that's really the key to tot success is as long 353 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: as they continue to remain open about their lives, I 354 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:16,400 Speaker 1: think people will continue to watch. I mean the relatability 355 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 1: between the inter relationships, whether it's sibling or mother daughter 356 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 1: and now obviously kids and more people coming in. Just 357 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 1: that there's that's life for all of us, right. Our 358 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,919 Speaker 1: stories continue to write themselves, and sometimes in ways that 359 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 1: we just don't see. So I think the key to 360 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:35,360 Speaker 1: that family and the evolution and the reason it's been 361 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: on for so long is that they're open to the process. 362 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: What's also counterintuitive to me is, you know, they are 363 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,199 Speaker 1: everywhere in large part, I think also because of the 364 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:50,399 Speaker 1: digital presence they have across social platforms where they're you know, 365 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: among the most popular attractions. And yet despite you know, 366 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 1: this great existence of theirs on Instagram and whatnot, it 367 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:04,440 Speaker 1: doesn't really siphon from the TV show. They all feed 368 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: each other, and I would not have expected that to 369 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:09,640 Speaker 1: be the case. Did you ever have any trepidation about that? 370 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 1: I think they feed each other in certain ways. I 371 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: mean the show you can go deeper, you can really 372 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: get into the story and the nature of some of 373 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,159 Speaker 1: these new platforms and new technologies or shorter form, and 374 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,439 Speaker 1: I think there's been a lot of discussion about short 375 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: form Snap, which we have several projects with now and 376 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 1: been a great working relationship. Obviously, Quimby has been making 377 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 1: a lot of noise about their short form well. I 378 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: think that will continue to evolve I think with a 379 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: show like ours, you really get into the meat of 380 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:41,399 Speaker 1: the story, You really get to the heart of it. 381 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: And I think that's really why you can have both. 382 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 1: And it isn't taking away the digital. What they're doing 383 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 1: on digital isn't taking away from the show. But I 384 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 1: think it's additive and it continues the conversation and people 385 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,439 Speaker 1: continue to be interested in both. Will the show be 386 00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: around in another ten years, I hope. So. I'll bet 387 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: Another fun one you guys have starting soon is coming 388 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 1: to Nickelodeon, the Crystal Maze, which you know, perhaps my 389 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: listeners in the UK will know because that's really weird, 390 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: became very popular. UM talk a bit about what drew 391 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: you guys into this and why you're making a go 392 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 1: of it in the US and Nickelodeon. Yeah, so interesting. 393 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 1: So I think it ties back to an earlier point 394 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:25,880 Speaker 1: we talked about, which was being part of an international group. 395 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: So this is a sister company called RDF that produces 396 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: Crystal Maze in the UK. It's an iconic game show. 397 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:34,120 Speaker 1: It had been on the air, I believe twenty years 398 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 1: ago for a long time, went off for a little 399 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,360 Speaker 1: bit that and then RDF brought it back a few 400 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 1: seasons ago, hugely successful, very well known, and it's more 401 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 1: geared towards it. It's not a kid's game show, it's 402 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: adult and then that a celebrity version. And what we 403 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,119 Speaker 1: did is we adapted it for the US but for 404 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: kids and family. And we have been looking at the 405 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,159 Speaker 1: kids in family space for a couple of years and 406 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 1: felt like there was an opening or a white space, 407 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 1: if you will, where there wasn't a lot of sort 408 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: of reality programming for kids and very few buyers and 409 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 1: and we did some pilots and some presentations, um, but 410 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:12,640 Speaker 1: it really wasn't taking off. And I think in two 411 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: thousand nineteen, all of a sudden there was became a 412 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:19,160 Speaker 1: lot of interest in kids and family. Rob Bagshaw, who 413 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,719 Speaker 1: has Nickelodeon unscripted, had worked for US many years. He 414 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 1: was the showrunner for Project Runway All Stars and he 415 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 1: had worked for US ran running our New York office 416 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 1: for a couple of years. Had a very good relationship. 417 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: And he's a brit and he's very familiar with Crystal 418 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: Maze and I think he once he came into Nickelodeon, 419 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:39,160 Speaker 1: he was aware of that format and uh, it's something 420 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,199 Speaker 1: that they really a direction that they wanted to go in, 421 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 1: so I'm super excited about how that ties in. Again too, 422 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,159 Speaker 1: being part of an international group, we were able to 423 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 1: go ahead and see an opportunity with from a sister 424 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: company of a property that was within their catalog, but 425 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: at the same time be able to adapt it to 426 00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: not just a different territory but also to a different 427 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: and so that airs January, I think on Nickelodeon. We'll see, 428 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: but it was a great show. The family has loved it. 429 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,880 Speaker 1: It's a great fun show, and uh, I think we're 430 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:12,360 Speaker 1: really excited to see how it does. What has, if 431 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: any it's an international exposure been outside the UK because 432 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:20,120 Speaker 1: as you know, like the very best unscripted formats can 433 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: become wildly successful by going into dozens maybe I don't know, 434 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: hundreds of territories. Yes, So as of right now, I 435 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: to the best of my knowledge, I think it's just 436 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: the UK and then we'll be adapting it now in 437 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 1: the US. So it will be interesting to see because 438 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 1: again also certain territories might not be looking at it. 439 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:36,879 Speaker 1: They might have just been looking at it for the 440 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: adult audience, so it just specifically for broadcast. But what 441 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,120 Speaker 1: we're hoping to do is what we think this Nickelodeon 442 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 1: show will do is open that up and realize, wait 443 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: a minute, there's another way of doing this series. So 444 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: if you could do kids and family, maybe that opens 445 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: up some more opportunities and other territories, or just brings 446 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 1: more exposure to it around the world as well. Whether 447 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 1: it's kids or family or more of an adult version. 448 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: It really is malleable and could work both ways very well. 449 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: I'm curiously at a cent from you looking very broadly. 450 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,880 Speaker 1: Let's keep it to the us though, of what are 451 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 1: the hot genres or subgenres within unscripted. It's always fascinating 452 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 1: to me how this particular, this reality space, you know, 453 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 1: different formats come in and out of vogue. It's almost 454 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 1: too hard to keep track of. I agree the trend 455 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: right now, which which I'm excited about quite honestly, because 456 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 1: I think for us it's the pendulum has swung all 457 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 1: the way back. Are these documentaries? Premium docs are docuseries, 458 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,199 Speaker 1: and the company started with the real world where it 459 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: really was a social experiment. In doc You that show 460 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: is about putting seven strangers from diverse backgrounds into a loft, 461 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: into a house and really just filming for four months 462 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 1: without prompting and just seeing what's going to happen. And 463 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: then the industry a few years ago came back to 464 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: that in a way where there was a period of 465 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 1: time where it had everything had to be over the top, 466 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: or you walk into a pitch and buyers would say 467 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,159 Speaker 1: that's too earnest, and then here we are, you know, 468 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,120 Speaker 1: we're able to produce a born this way. Or now 469 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: you're seeing premium documentaries getting into some really serious subjects. 470 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: Those type of programs weren't being bought, you know, even 471 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,880 Speaker 1: five years ago. So as a company personally, that's what 472 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: I'm excited about where the industry is right now, is 473 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: to be able to focus and tell real stories and 474 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: to really get to the heart of the matter of 475 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,360 Speaker 1: what's going on, as as hard as some of those 476 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: stories are are to tell. Um. So I think that's 477 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,639 Speaker 1: the trend now. I hope that it's not just a trend. 478 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 1: I hope that there's enough. There's enough programming need. There's 479 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: so many different platforms. I think everybody is still trying 480 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,399 Speaker 1: to to to carve their niche and the type of 481 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: programming that we're doing. So for us, the drivers, what's 482 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:58,200 Speaker 1: the what's what's the story that hasn't been told? Where? 483 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,120 Speaker 1: Who are the characters that you know the world hasn't seen. 484 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: What are the voices, the diverse voices that people haven't 485 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 1: heard from yet. So that's really what drives me, what 486 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,879 Speaker 1: drives us, and for our team, it's where what are 487 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: you passionate about? Like it should be driven by passion. 488 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:14,960 Speaker 1: So I think that's we're going to continue to see 489 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 1: more and more of that. So I do think it 490 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: will continue to evolve. What excites me is about trying 491 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: to find those new stories, those new areas, those new technologies, 492 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 1: those new platforms where maybe it's not a new story 493 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 1: per se, but there's a new way to do it. 494 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 1: And that's why snapchats exciting to me, because we're telling 495 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: compelling stories in five to seven minutes. And that also 496 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,360 Speaker 1: re energizes the team from production all the way through 497 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: post production because these are people who are used to 498 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 1: sort of a certain format for all of these years. 499 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:46,719 Speaker 1: And that's what I love about where we are as 500 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: an industry is that we're really able to challenge ourselves 501 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:56,439 Speaker 1: creatively and and reinvent ourselves in creative storytelling ways that 502 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 1: we weren't able to do or that we just the 503 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,399 Speaker 1: platforms weren't there for us to do it. And the 504 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: more technology evolves it allows us and gives us more 505 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: tools to really play with and really get into this 506 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 1: emerging type of storytelling or interactive storytelling, or whoever direction 507 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 1: it may go. Yeah, I mean the interactive thing is 508 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: become somewhat of a trend. Uh. I mean maybe some 509 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: some inscripted as well. Um, do you feel like that 510 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: is a place that we can see eventually become hot? 511 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: I feel like I've been writing about interactive is gonna 512 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,639 Speaker 1: get hot for twenty years. Yeah, exactly, and I've been 513 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: trying to crack it for twenty years. I think it's 514 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 1: a good question. I've always been a big believer in that. 515 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 1: But I think as the technology continues to evolve, I 516 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 1: think we're probably closer to it today than we were 517 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 1: twenty years ago when we were talking about it. But 518 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 1: that type of discussion, that type of creative exercise, when 519 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: you get people into a room to be Okay, how 520 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 1: what can we do that? Would what can we do? Live? 521 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,400 Speaker 1: We've been trying to crack live in the US. It's 522 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: difficult with time zones, but internationally that works well, sometimes 523 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 1: they get you know, huge number sentage wise in some 524 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,400 Speaker 1: of these European territories when they find that everybody, including 525 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: the whole family, is sitting around playing either a game 526 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 1: show together. I'd love to try to find that show 527 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,439 Speaker 1: domestically where it's not a sporting event. You know, it's 528 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: not the super Bowl where everybody's gathering. But can you 529 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 1: come up with an entertainment show where you can gather 530 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 1: all of those people or ultimately can you create a 531 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 1: show where the people at home feel as though they're participating. 532 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 1: It feels like the power of unscripted is that when 533 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,200 Speaker 1: it's done at its absolute best, when it's truly hit, 534 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 1: it becomes something that's becoming increasing let's read, sorry, increasingly rare, 535 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: which is you have to see it when it comes out, 536 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,360 Speaker 1: which is great for sort of traditional and supported television. 537 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 1: I mean, is that really kind of like the bulls 538 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:51,880 Speaker 1: eye you have to hit in your business? Yeah, which 539 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 1: is why it's challenging right now. Yes, because it's such 540 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 1: an on demand driven world right now, and there's so 541 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,360 Speaker 1: much competition. There's own so much programming, and not everything 542 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,640 Speaker 1: you can get marketed, not every program so not only 543 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,639 Speaker 1: you're dealing with this plethora of of channels and platforms. 544 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,160 Speaker 1: But at the same time you're also competing with all 545 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,879 Speaker 1: these other adjacent platforms, and everybody's on their mobile device, 546 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,200 Speaker 1: and there's so much competition, So how do you break 547 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,479 Speaker 1: through that noise? And not not every none of these 548 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 1: channels have the marketing muscle to push everything. So yes, 549 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 1: it is, But at the same time, I think for us, 550 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 1: it's more about really telling us the story that we're 551 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,200 Speaker 1: passionate about or something we feel could resonate, and also 552 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,120 Speaker 1: sometimes being patient and letting it grow, because not everything 553 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:37,880 Speaker 1: is going to be a hit out of the gate, 554 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 1: and I think sometimes the Kardashians, I think is a 555 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 1: great example. Certainly internationally, there were a first few years 556 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: where nobody internationally knew what that show was or who 557 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: that family was. It took a few years before the 558 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 1: market really knew who that family was. Then obviously even 559 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: within those countries, they started showing up on the covers 560 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 1: of their magazines, etcetera. So I think it's a balance, 561 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: and for us it's not. You don't nests I have 562 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: to hit it out of the park episode one and 563 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 1: have a huge I think obviously, yes, that helps but 564 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 1: I think sometimes it's also being patient and believing in 565 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: the property that you have and believing over time the 566 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 1: audience will find it. Well. We'll see what shows coming 567 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 1: out of UNI Murray in the coming year's UH get 568 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: to Hit level. Wish you the best of luck with that. 569 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: Thank you appreciate it. This has been another episode of 570 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: Strictly Business. Tune in next week for another helping of 571 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: scintillating conversation with media movers and shakers, and please make 572 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 1: sure you subscribe to the podcast to hear future episodes. 573 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 1: Also leave a review in Apple Podcast let us know 574 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 1: how we're doing.