1 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: Y'all welcome to the Crime Round Up with Nancy Grace 2 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 1: and Cheryl McCollum. Nancy, your house has been invaded. 3 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:21,799 Speaker 2: My house has been invaded. But look, I hear my 4 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 2: I see my sister and her daughter right now, who 5 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 2: is gorgeous. She looks like a young and better version 6 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 2: of Julian Roberts. I'm not kidding, she always says. And 7 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 2: there are you using my commemorative coffee cups? They are? 8 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 2: They are using I collect coffee cups, my commemorative Just 9 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:45,879 Speaker 2: please don't use the one of me pregnant. I had 10 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 2: two baby shower, Cheryl, you gave me one, and my 11 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 2: friends in New York, Karen Stark and others gave me 12 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:56,279 Speaker 2: the other one. And they have coffee cups. I met 13 00:00:56,360 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 2: pregnant on the front coffee cup. The first three dead 14 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 2: when they could walk and talk, is break a coffee cup? Okay? 15 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 2: So I have them far away so nobody can reach them. 16 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 2: Of course, that's exactly what they go for when they 17 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:14,279 Speaker 2: have a coffee cup. Now, aside from the commemoratives coffee 18 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 2: cup issue, we are being joined today by my sister, 19 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 2: her gorgeous and brilliant and she serves by the way 20 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:27,199 Speaker 2: she does it all, and she makes these elaborate meals. 21 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 2: She's imaginarian and it's amazing. And David shut up, David 22 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 2: and the dog. We're all here together, okay. And we've 23 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 2: been sleeping on the floor of the church this week 24 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 2: for a missions trip. So you can imagine what kind 25 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 2: of mood I'm in to talk about Joplin and those two. 26 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 2: You know, I usually don't call defendants animals. I think 27 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 2: I will in this case. Jocelyn Hungary, Yeah, I think 28 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 2: it fits this little twelve year old girl. Everyone, well 29 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 2: not everyone. Something we want in the press are actually 30 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 2: attacking the twelve little girl because she snuck out that night. Okay, 31 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 2: the mom says, and my sister and I and my 32 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 2: brother grew up with my parents both being gone to 33 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 2: work when we woke up. So this mom, the mom 34 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 2: had to get up early and go to work, and 35 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 2: so she's taken the daughter with her, I assume, because 36 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 2: she didn't want to leave her at home. So she says, 37 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 2: go to bed, Go to bed, because you have to 38 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 2: get up early and go to work with me. The 39 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 2: mom goes to sleep, The daughter sneaks out, not to 40 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 2: do anything nefarious, but to go call her little thirteen 41 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 2: year old boyfriend on the cell phone a block or 42 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,679 Speaker 2: two away at the seven to eleven. So I guess 43 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 2: she had a curfew on when she could use the phone. 44 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 2: I'm extrapolating here from the facts. So she sneaks out 45 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 2: to use the cell phone, and a lot of it's 46 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 2: called on video. Two guys did not know her before, 47 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 2: which is important, walk up to her, and we now know, 48 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:02,519 Speaker 2: asked her for directions, and she says sure, an little 49 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 2: boy can hear two adults talking to her on the 50 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:10,679 Speaker 2: front in the background, so she starts showing them directions 51 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 2: and you can see them walking along with her, and 52 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 2: the next thing you know, she's under a bridge, bound 53 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 2: at the wrists and the ankles, tripped from the waist 54 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 2: down and is raped and strangled and thrown in a 55 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 2: value twelve years old. 56 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:30,679 Speaker 1: The part of the whole thing that sticks out for 57 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: me are the bite marks and scratches one of the 58 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: assailants had on his arms That child fought him, Nancy, 59 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: she fought him. 60 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 2: Well, I look at everything from a probated point of view. 61 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:46,839 Speaker 2: What can I use a trial? And all of that 62 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 2: is going to be critical to show that they had 63 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 2: been in She had been in a horrible, horrible fight. 64 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 2: But can we look at that. It's a flight for 65 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 2: just one moment Number one, When the police show up 66 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 2: at the guy's door, he tries to jump off the balcony. 67 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 2: You know, if a cop comes to your door, why 68 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 2: didn't try to jump off a balcony. He shaved his face, 69 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 2: changed his appearance, and asked his boss for an advance 70 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 2: so he could lead the juristictioning, and actually mentioned that 71 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 2: someone had been killed. Now, Cheryl, I can't win for losing. 72 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 2: We've always said illegal immigrant, and then that has been 73 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 2: changed recently to another term, undocumented migrant. So I have 74 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 2: a slew of people online angry that I said illegal immigrant, 75 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 2: and another slew angry that I said undocumented migrant. So 76 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 2: I wrote one person back, which I really do, and 77 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 2: said I use both terms. You're mistaken, And then they 78 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 2: wrote back, of course you should have put it in 79 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 2: the banner. 80 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: I let you know what, Yeah, let me just point 81 00:04:59,360 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 1: something out. 82 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 2: That's the important thing here. Okay, can we refocus on Jocelyn, 83 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 2: the twelve year old girl who has been killed. We 84 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 2: have a twelve year old murder victim. 85 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 1: But I am more concerned about Nancy Grace's banner not 86 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: being complete with every single possible thing. We can call 87 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: these folks, Okay, I'll tell you what. We'll call them 88 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: a pos. That's what they are, technic collegial term. Absolutely, 89 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:26,479 Speaker 1: you've got these folks walking down the street that have 90 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: never seen this child, didn't know this child, had no 91 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: reason to come up to this child that said okay, 92 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: she'll do, and on a dime, decided they're going to 93 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: grab her, kidnap her, sexually assault her, and then dispose 94 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,600 Speaker 1: of her after they've torture her. Because she was under 95 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: that bridge getting assaulted for two hours, they took turns 96 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:49,479 Speaker 1: at her. And the reason they threw her in the 97 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: by U Creek, he said, toss her in there to 98 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: get rid of the DNA. 99 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 2: They raped her. And I know that the Texas prosecutors 100 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 2: haven't come out said that yet, but they did. I mean, 101 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 2: use your noodle please. She's stripped from the waist down, 102 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 2: she's bound hands and feet, and her back is covered 103 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 2: in scratches. They raped her. I don't like that word either, 104 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 2: but that is the heirst truth of what this little 105 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:23,799 Speaker 2: girl endured. And to have the wherewithal to say, throw 106 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 2: her in the water to get rid of the DNA. 107 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:31,840 Speaker 2: Now I've used this comparison before, Cheryl, but just think 108 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:36,479 Speaker 2: about it. In New York, everyone thinks nature is Central Park, 109 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 2: which is gorgeous. I have to it's beautiful nature. It ain't, 110 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 2: but it's a very close facibility thereof in Central Park 111 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 2: or any park trail. If you see a little rabbit 112 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 2: hop across your trail, I assume your first instinct is 113 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,840 Speaker 2: to try to throw it a tree or it. Think, oh, 114 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 2: I wish I could pint it. Not to grab the 115 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 2: rabbit and bite it in the neck and tear its 116 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 2: throat out. See, because you're not a predator. When I 117 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 2: see a twelve year old out alone, I think, oh, 118 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 2: my stars, who is with this child? Why is this 119 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 2: child out by itself? I'm going to report the parents 120 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 2: to defects. That's the first thing I think made they 121 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 2: write in the hell how dare they? But these two 122 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 2: their first instinct is hey, can't you imagine the knowing 123 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 2: glances they exchanged when they were luring this little girl away? 124 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 2: Number One, it's a rape and the prosecutors have not 125 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 2: claimed it's a rape yet because they claim that they're 126 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 2: waiting on the DNA test. DNA can come back with 127 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 2: a rapid DNA test, it doesn't take this long. That said, 128 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 2: prosecutors are used that as a reason not to announce 129 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 2: the death penalty. Also, I'd like to point out that 130 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 2: under Texas law, a kidnap is an underlying aggravating circumstance 131 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 2: to seek the death penalty. And I have been asked 132 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 2: why do you speak haltingly sometimes? And the reason is 133 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,239 Speaker 2: because it's a lot of technical jargon to throw around, 134 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 2: or complicated sentences or facts that are very dense, so 135 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 2: I separate to make it make sense. So what I'm 136 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 2: saying is there are certain aggravating circumstances, as they are 137 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 2: called under the law by which you can seek the 138 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 2: death penalty. If you don't have those circumstances, you cannot 139 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 2: seek the death penalty under Texas law. I think we 140 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 2: would all agree that Texas is pretty, let's just say, 141 00:08:55,559 --> 00:09:00,359 Speaker 2: very well known for seeking and getting the death penalty. Anyway, 142 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 2: they're acting like the only way they can get it 143 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 2: is if or even seek it. Is if Jocelyn has 144 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 2: been raped, that is not true. If she has been kidnapped, 145 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 2: that is another underlying circumstance and aggravating circumstance by which 146 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 2: you can see the DP. What does kidnap mean? All 147 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 2: that is required is minimal asportation. What is asportation? Asportation 148 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 2: means the moving moving of somewhat against their will. It's 149 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 2: long been established by the US Supreme Court that asportation, 150 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 2: the movement of the victim against their will, does not 151 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 2: require any specific distance. It can be one inch under 152 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 2: the law. I can put Cheryl McCollum in the trunk 153 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 2: of my car and drag you from, you know, across 154 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 2: the country. That's kidnapped. But if I move to you 155 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 2: one inch against your will, that is kidnapped. So them 156 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 2: taking her under the bridge, binding your hens and feet, 157 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 2: if they moved her one inch against a will, that 158 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 2: is a kidnap. Air go Hents. Therefore, the underlying circumstance 159 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 2: has been met and they can't seek the Texas DP, 160 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 2: which is the needle. Now, this is not a big 161 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 2: argument pro or con death penalty. That's up to a journey. 162 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 2: But what I'm saying is, if we're gonna have the 163 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 2: death penalty, this would be the case. I'd pull it 164 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 2: out of the moss balls. I'm gonna say y'all know 165 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 2: what I just thought about air go hents. Therefore, I'm 166 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,199 Speaker 2: gonna sound so good tonight at dinner. So lis day 167 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 2: you say ergo, I will do a backfluff. Well, start 168 00:10:53,040 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 2: stretching out because it's happening, but of your own militia. 169 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: The reason I said sex assault is because again I 170 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 1: don't know that sodomy was not involved in that two 171 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: hour period of time. So I just wanted it all encompassed. 172 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:16,199 Speaker 1: And here's another thing about the death penalty. They bound her, 173 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:18,439 Speaker 1: so if you take the sex assault out of it, 174 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: they kidnapped her, they bound her, they stripped her, and 175 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: they strangled her. 176 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 2: That's enough right there. Speaking of in many jurisdictions, they 177 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:32,719 Speaker 2: have a catch all phrase to seek the DP, and 178 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 2: it's especially heinous, and that can be just about any 179 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 2: murder you pick. In my mind, is heinous. That said, 180 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:46,839 Speaker 2: I predict that they will ultimately announce DP, although I'm 181 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 2: a little concerned that they're hinging it on whether she 182 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 2: was raped, that they're saying that publicly, because they don't 183 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 2: need a rape to seek the DP, but they're stating 184 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 2: that publicly. We'll just see how that how that pans out. 185 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,959 Speaker 2: But well, let's talk about the other reality. What Please 186 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 2: don't say jail house justice. I mean we always people 187 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 2: say jail house Gian says, I can only think a 188 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 2: handful of cases where the defendant was actually killed. When 189 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 2: was Jeff Dahmer? And when was some priest that molested 190 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,199 Speaker 2: a lot of boys? I can't remember his same father. 191 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 2: Was it Gogan? I can't say, I'll look it up. 192 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 2: It was Gogan, John Gogan, a Catholic grace murdered in jail. 193 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 2: I convict the child mile aster who oh ran into 194 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 2: one of his victims behind bars. Yeah, I hate when 195 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,439 Speaker 2: that happens. I hate when that happens too. 196 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: Of all the prisons in all the world, jail house, 197 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: air go justice. 198 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 2: Oh you did it, let me go? 199 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:49,959 Speaker 1: Do it? 200 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 2: Back what you said here? 201 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 1: Okay, So I just wanted to say, nobody rapes one time. 202 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 2: So think about what had to happen here. 203 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,959 Speaker 1: You have two people that are now like minded in 204 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 1: what they are going to do to this child. 205 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 2: Within seconds. This was very quick. 206 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: So my point is, if me and you were walking 207 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: down the street and we see a wallet on the ground, hey, 208 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 1: we may decide to take it and keep it, not 209 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:17,960 Speaker 1: turn it in. 210 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 2: I know we would not decide that. Sure, we would not. 211 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:26,959 Speaker 2: We would absolutely we would turn it in. There was 212 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 2: something he cay about you, and now it's coming out. 213 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: If you and I found a wallet on the ground 214 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,560 Speaker 1: full of money and no idea, we would still turn 215 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: it into the police. We would dirty money. There's nothing 216 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: good we could buy with it. We couldn't enjoy it. However, 217 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: I can see quickly in a moment where that could 218 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: happen and two people be like minded. When you're talking 219 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: about kidnapping and sexually assaulting a child, and I want 220 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: to really emphasize something people tell me all the time, 221 00:13:58,559 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: well what was she wearing? 222 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 2: What was she doing out there? Was she drinking? Okay, 223 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 2: has somebody actually said that this time? They're already harping 224 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 2: her sneaking out at night. It's just ridiculous, because here's 225 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:15,959 Speaker 2: the thing. You and I have worked cases where infants 226 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 2: have been sexually assaulted, where elderly people have been sexually assaulted. 227 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 2: The oldest victim I had was eighty nine years old 228 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 2: and was assaulted on her birthday. 229 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: So you can tell me all day what was she 230 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: wearing and what does she do to provoke it? These 231 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: animals do not operate and think like we do. Sex 232 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: has nothing to do with it. It is a violent. 233 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 2: Crime, you know, a case. And I got to be 234 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 2: friends with the victims down Cortavitrotto and oh my goodness, 235 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 2: gorgeous smart. I think she's working on her master's degree. 236 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 2: And she would go jogging with her father, Phil Vitronto, 237 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 2: almost every day in Long Island, and he former firefighter. 238 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 2: He was down on. 239 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 3: The back and he that one day and it really 240 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 3: hit home because I would go exercise with my dad 241 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 3: all the time and I would have to jog to 242 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 3: keep up with him walking. 243 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 2: You know, he was a heart patient. Look at his 244 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 2: picture right down anyway and made me think of him. 245 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 2: So every day they would go jogging, and that day 246 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 2: his back was hurting and he didn't go. And after 247 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 2: he told me this privately, I think we talked about 248 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 2: it on crime Stories. After about forty minutes, he got 249 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 2: this horrible, horrible feeling and he started trying to collar 250 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 2: and collar and call her and Kreta would not answer 251 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 2: this out and he knew right then and he went 252 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 2: and started looking for her. Well, some perv found her, 253 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 2: did not know her, attacked her. She fought he knocked 254 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 2: her teeth out, He molested her and killed her, and 255 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 2: Peel found the body. He and I worked together to 256 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 2: have familial DNA allowed in New York, him doing the 257 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 2: most part. I just, you know, was a mouthpiece, and 258 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 2: it did get passed, and the defendant was found through 259 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 2: familial DNA. But you should have seen the way people 260 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 2: talked about Karna. I mean, she's very beautiful, she's very 261 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 2: shape plea. She worked out all the time, and she 262 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 2: was wearing jogging pants and a workout bra, which is 263 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 2: exactly what I wore for years when I would gay 264 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 2: jog and didn't really think anything about it. But you 265 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 2: would think that she was a horror Babylon whenever that is, 266 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 2: I'm deserve that. And I mean I remember in the 267 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 2: midst of the search for her killer. You know, I 268 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 2: get up super early, and at that time, I was 269 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 2: getting up between four and five East back now, I 270 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 2: get up at five and the first to go to 271 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 2: do was take the trash out of the night before 272 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 2: and let the dog out, and the stars would still 273 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 2: be out and I would see this what kind of 274 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:18,159 Speaker 2: a golden star every morning around four point fifty and 275 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 2: I was at the beds of the Karata tried to 276 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 2: follow the killer and I named it Caurida Star, And 277 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 2: to this day, when I got outside of the boarding, 278 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 2: I see it, but it removes me of how everyone 279 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:33,159 Speaker 2: was attacking her because of what she wore when she 280 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:33,880 Speaker 2: was jocking. 281 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 1: But do you know what I tell people all the time, 282 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,439 Speaker 1: how in the world at the Playboy mansion can the 283 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: playmates be out by the pool and bathing suits and 284 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 1: sunbathing and walking all around. There's never been one documented rape. 285 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,479 Speaker 1: It has nothing to do with what you look like 286 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: or what you are wearing. Those playmates are flawless and 287 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,159 Speaker 1: they're already half naked, but they should be safe. 288 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:58,640 Speaker 2: Way wait wait, wait, did you say naked? N e 289 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 2: kk I d naked. I showed there's a big difference 290 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,639 Speaker 2: in naked and naked and understand that that's subtle but 291 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,679 Speaker 2: important decision. So do you want to put money on 292 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 2: whether we can get David? You know, I switched off 293 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 2: hot tea. I don't know when this happened. I'm back 294 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 2: in coffee. You said we can get David to give 295 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 2: me a cup of coffee. Oh, so he's looking at 296 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 2: his iPad like he can't hear me. You know, he's 297 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 2: avoiding it. I'm going to be first dollar that he 298 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 2: will get me a cup of coffee. First of all, 299 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:31,200 Speaker 2: you shouldn't even have to ask for it. I don't 300 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 2: want Cheryl's lay, David. What do I even have to 301 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 2: ask for the cup of coffee? You know what, He's 302 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,160 Speaker 2: going to make it double. He is making the coffee. Now, 303 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 2: this is so funny. I told you my niece is 304 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 2: a vegetarian. He makes all of these incredible meals for 305 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 2: my sister. My brother in law was a huge inspiration 306 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 2: to me. He battled MS for years and years and 307 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 2: years and finally passed away. And do you know all 308 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:04,360 Speaker 2: those years him in a wheelchair, never once complained, never once, 309 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 2: Cheryl never. 310 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,359 Speaker 1: And what a struggle that is. Oh bless him. And 311 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 1: he was such an inspiration to other people because everybody 312 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 1: that knew what he was going through, especially the way 313 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: he was for his children. 314 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 2: Excuse me, emergency, David, did you put just a half? 315 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 2: Just a half a tablespoon of half and half. I 316 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 2: have not been on a diet for the last fifteen years, 317 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 2: for blow it all with half and half. Anyway, I 318 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 2: got off, I'm going to say, you got me all 319 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 2: track anyway, So she makes these incredible meals with all 320 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 2: sorts of you know, straight from the farm, pro deuce. 321 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 2: She comes here and since do you're of coffee, it's 322 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 2: right over there, and I suddenly have a jar of folgers, 323 00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 2: and guess what, it's not even folgers, as you know, 324 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 2: I think out and I get the horrible coffee. Actually 325 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 2: I like it from Dollar Tree, and it's like powder. 326 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 2: It doesn't even look like little freeze dried chucks. It's powder. 327 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 2: I don't know if she broke down and drank any 328 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 2: or not, because I'm just guessing that they grind their 329 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,399 Speaker 2: own beans and you know that whole thing. Now, what 330 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 2: were we saying about the crime? I'm sorry. I was 331 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,880 Speaker 2: just telling a story about you, Cheryl McCollum, about how 332 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 2: I was working at the Battered Women Center, and we, 333 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 2: of course, you and I have wildly divergent stories about 334 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 2: how we first met. We were at the new Center 335 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 2: down off Prior and there was a big to do 336 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 2: that we were going to give the battered women their 337 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 2: own cell phone, their secret cell phone, which is so 338 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 2: funny because they were speaking as a shoe box and the 339 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 2: city was going to pay for it, and it was 340 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 2: that joint initiative that I claim it's the first time 341 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 2: I met you, but you have a bunch or colorful description. 342 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: Yes, we knew each other long before the cell phone 343 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: program because I called you and said, would you please 344 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: come and speak at the event, because not just were 345 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,639 Speaker 1: you behind it, but you help and launch it was 346 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: going to be the ticket, you know. And let me 347 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: just tell everybody that was the first time in the 348 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:27,159 Speaker 1: United States that that program had ever been done. And 349 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,400 Speaker 1: you and I went to Bell South and said, look, 350 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: this is what we want to do. And I can't 351 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 1: remember her name, but there was a young vice president 352 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: there and said, well, we could probably use phones that 353 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,200 Speaker 1: are no longer marketable. I'll never forget that term because 354 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: I'd never heard it. 355 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 2: And she goes, is. 356 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 1: That the phones you want? And I was like yes, 357 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: even though I wasn't really even sure what she was saying. 358 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 1: But they gave us the telephones that they weren't going 359 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: to sell anymore, and they were those gigantic bag phones. 360 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: So Nancy, when she first saw what they gave us, 361 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: she was like, good lord, that could be the weapon if. 362 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 2: They can't get cellph oeversus like an animal that weather 363 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 2: but it was great. It worked beautifully because they were 364 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:09,640 Speaker 2: not marketable. They couldn't really, But I mean, how can 365 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 2: that be a secret cellphone? Where she gonna hide it? 366 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 1: Well, I mean at that point it shouldn't have been 367 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: a secret anyway. I wanted the perpetrator to know. She 368 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:19,160 Speaker 1: could die on that one have won at any time, 369 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 1: no matter where she was. 370 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:22,360 Speaker 2: Well, if the perp knew it, he'd get rid of it. 371 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:24,959 Speaker 2: Well that's the reason we made him non marketable, so 372 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 2: he couldn't No, I mean, he wouldn't make it where 373 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:29,640 Speaker 2: she couldn't use it. Oh, but that's another charge. 374 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, after she's dead, I would have go on the 375 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: record none of our women were killed. 376 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:41,920 Speaker 2: Okay, Cheryl back to this. Oh oh go Cheryl back 377 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 2: to the case and chief, can I tell you? I'm 378 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:49,120 Speaker 2: sure you already know. One of the defendants said, well, 379 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 2: I didn't rape her. I just kissed her. I'm like, 380 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 2: what jackass would even admit to kissing a twelve year 381 00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 2: old girl bound at the wrist and ankles under bridge 382 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 2: with her pants off? Why would you even just like? 383 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 1: Oh, the same one that says, oh, well, my buddy 384 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: told me to throw her off the bridge to get 385 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: rid of the DNA, So I did the same, idiot, 386 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: which is the reason we have DNA. I mean, people 387 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 1: just don't understand the technology we have. 388 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 2: Now, okay, can I just ask you one quick thing 389 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 2: to create further controversy. What about Alec Baldwin. He picks 390 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 2: up a gun, he shoots a woman, a mother, She dies, 391 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 2: the child, her child, her only son, is in so 392 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 2: much trauma when he hears his mom has passed away, 393 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 2: he cannot speak. He cannot under a word. It was 394 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 2: either two or three full days he couldn't speak. I 395 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:51,399 Speaker 2: fully believe Alec Baldwin did not know it was a 396 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 2: live round. But we still have the fact that he 397 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 2: pointed a gun and pulled the trigger and kill somebody. 398 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 2: How many people say I didn't need to kill them? Everybody? 399 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 2: How about everybody is ues. 400 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:08,400 Speaker 1: So there's so many issues there, Nancy, I don't understand, 401 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: and I will never understand having live rounds on a 402 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 1: movie set. I will never understand not knowing that, hey, 403 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,159 Speaker 1: you shouldn't point a gun at anybody and pull you know, 404 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:17,959 Speaker 1: and pull the trigger. 405 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 2: I mean, this is stuff you should know by four 406 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,919 Speaker 2: years old. Well, right now, the new Mexico judge is 407 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 2: planning to rule on a request to dismiss the sole 408 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 2: charge against Baldin. It wouldn't be the first time that 409 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,360 Speaker 2: it's been asked to be they've asked to dismiss it. 410 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 2: But this is going to be a problem for the state. 411 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 2: The state did dismiss it in the past, and then 412 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:47,959 Speaker 2: they resurrected it, and that's going to be haunting the prosecution. 413 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,160 Speaker 2: The first thing the defense is going to say, as 414 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 2: they should. I mean, if I were a defense attorney, 415 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 2: which thank you Heaven, I'm not, but if I were, 416 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:00,639 Speaker 2: the first thing you were says this is bogus. S 417 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 2: in fact, as the prosecutor, isn't it true? You will 418 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:11,160 Speaker 2: learn the prosecutor dropped all the charges against Alec Baldwin, 419 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 2: yet here we are. That would be the first thing 420 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 2: I would argue that was a huge mistake by the state. 421 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 2: I mean they if they didn't want to go forward, 422 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,399 Speaker 2: then drop it. But don't drop it and then resurrect it. 423 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: Nancy, if you get in a car and you have 424 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,399 Speaker 1: a rack, it doesn't matter if it ain't your car. 425 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,479 Speaker 1: If you pick up a real firearm and you pointed 426 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: at another person and you put your finger on the 427 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: trigger and you pull that trigger. Every single thing that 428 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 1: happens is your responsibility. 429 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 2: Your pressing to the choir. Again, you basically regurgitate what 430 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:53,919 Speaker 2: I've already just said. But yes, Cheryl, you're right. Here 431 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 2: is what I'm gonna do for now on. I'm just 432 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 2: gonna take that sentence and I'm just gonna say a 433 00:25:57,640 --> 00:25:59,119 Speaker 2: bunch of crap and then just plug. 434 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 1: That in a right Cheryl. And you know another thing, Nancy, 435 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: here's what I think. You're right, Cheryl, I'm just gonna 436 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 1: plug that in. That's gonna be the crime round up 437 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 1: for now on. You can take next Friday off, Nancy, 438 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:12,639 Speaker 1: I got it. 439 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,400 Speaker 2: Don't worry about it. Yes, I've been working for Cheryl 440 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 2: McCollum for so long now I'm thinking it through about 441 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 2: what is going to happen. The armorer Guitaris, the who 442 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 2: should not have been the armorer. For anybody that doesn't know, 443 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,400 Speaker 2: an armorer, and there's no reason you should know. An 444 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,879 Speaker 2: armorer is a person that takes care of all the weapons, 445 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 2: the ballistics. It could be a sword, it could be 446 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 2: numb chucks. It could be a baseball bat. It could 447 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 2: be a gun, it could be bullets, it could be 448 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 2: those crazy round things. That they throw at each other 449 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 2: in martial arts movies, but the armorer is in charge 450 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 2: of all of that. She has already been convicted. Now 451 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 2: what does that mean a trial strategy wise, that means 452 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 2: that Alec Baldwin is going to be able to blame 453 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 2: her at trial. See, she's already been veig because she's 454 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 2: the bad guy, not me, and that's you know, really 455 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 2: fortuitous for him. But he is the one that pulled 456 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 2: the trigger, so it's really on her to make sure 457 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 2: that there are no live rounds in the gun. However, 458 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 2: he is the one that pulled the trigger, and under 459 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,440 Speaker 2: the law, he should be held responsible. I would say, 460 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 2: if I completely objectively looked at this, that it's an 461 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 2: involuntary manslaughter. It's not a murderer. It's not a malice murder. 462 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,120 Speaker 2: It's not a felony murder. It's not a voluntary manslaughter. 463 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 2: It is the lowest form of homicide. It is an 464 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,159 Speaker 2: involuntary manslaughter. That's what it is. Now, what they're going 465 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 2: to do with it, I don't know. 466 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 1: I'll just say one more thing about the whole thing. 467 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: I've heard outrageous things that famous people require in their 468 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,920 Speaker 1: green room, and I'm sure you've heard it too. Did 469 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 1: they demand certain things that are just crazy? Somebody of 470 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: his status in Hollywood could have demanded not to have 471 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: real firearms with real live ammunition. 472 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,479 Speaker 2: But why would he have even thought to say that? 473 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 2: That mean? 474 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: Well, you know, some folks in Hollywood are so anti gun. 475 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 1: It's amazing to me they hadn't already done it. 476 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,920 Speaker 2: Well, if he was anti gun, he wouldn't be shooting 477 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 2: a Western where they shoot each other. 478 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 1: Well, you would think that, But I'm just saying I 479 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 1: heard they were also practicing. 480 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 2: Yes, they were practicing with wive rounds. I believe that 481 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 2: day at launch, sometimes before the shooting, they were practicing. 482 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 2: Why are they practicing shooting? But anyway, that said, they 483 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 2: were practice shooting on the set, you know, outside the 484 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 2: set with guns that day. Hey, we bury the lead 485 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 2: for Pete's sake. What about the reality show? I don't 486 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 2: know that I know about it. Okay, Well I'll tell 487 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 2: you about it then, Nick, connect like it was your idea. Okay, Okay, 488 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 2: the Baldwins are about to preview their own family reality show. 489 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 2: Quick google it, Google it. That's goo g l E. 490 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 2: Cheryl McColl on TLC and you've got the wife who 491 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 2: is the pretend Spaniard. And I could play this clip 492 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 2: of her over and over and over and never get 493 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 2: tired of it. His wife grew up, David, didn't she 494 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 2: grow up in Boston? Yes see, he knows all pop culture. 495 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 2: I'm keeping you. The only way to get away with 496 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 2: this is because he's not listening to anything else. She 497 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 2: grew up at Boston, and she spent summers or some 498 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 2: extent a period of time in I believe it was Spain, 499 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 2: developed an accent, a Spanish accent, and reinvented herself and 500 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:59,479 Speaker 2: said she is Spanish. And then she did a cooking 501 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 2: segment on I don't know Good Morning America or the 502 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 2: Today's Show, and she said something like, how do you 503 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 2: say how do you say cucumber? I'm like, oh, okay. Anyway, 504 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 2: that's a whole nother canon worms that has no berry 505 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 2: on the shooting of the rust set, but the announcement 506 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 2: that she he and their seven children are going to 507 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 2: have a reality show on TLC full of quote, love 508 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 2: and laughter, and I guess the usual family hygienks. The timing, 509 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:39,479 Speaker 2: the optic of this is bad because they we still 510 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 2: have the son of the victim suffering while they are 511 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 2: presenting a family reality show where everyone is laughing. You know, 512 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 2: I guess having Christmas or birthdays and all that everything 513 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 2: that this little boy, Alena Hutchins little boy will never have. 514 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 2: He will never have that with his mother. Now, many people, 515 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 2: jaded though they be, state that this reality show is 516 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 2: in fact not a money grab, as some would argue, 517 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 2: but an attempt to humanize Alec Baldwin prior to his trial. 518 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 2: Show him with his children, show him with his wife, 519 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 2: show him in a family setting so regular people like 520 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 2: you and me can relate to him and not convict him. 521 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 2: Some cynical lawyers, like myself think that that's what's happening here. 522 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 1: Well maybe it should be renamed love, Laughter and Gunfire. 523 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 2: Let's tell the truth. If you want a reality show, 524 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 2: make it real. It's very hard to work with you, Cheryl. 525 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 2: If you're not going to stay abreast with the legal 526 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 2: president of the reality show about to launch on ELP, 527 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 2: I'm go go researcher right now. Hold on, can we 528 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 2: talk about you not watching TV? Yeah? Sure, you know, 529 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 2: I never had a chance to watch TV until I 530 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 2: had the twins and they got you know, we would 531 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 2: watch kids show but now John David and I love 532 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 2: to stream murder mysteries and we little known fact, love 533 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 2: to stream martial arts. Oh how fun? Wait? Are you serious? 534 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 2: Because I am very very You can. 535 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 1: See right now you and John David doing that and 536 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 1: having a blast. But like you already said, the numb 537 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 1: chucks throwing stars, I can totally see it. 538 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 2: My number one. People ask me all the time what 539 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 2: do you do in spare time? Well, A, I like 540 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 2: to cook, b be with them. But see if it's 541 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 2: got the name Donnie yen on it, I'm in. He 542 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 2: was the star of a new ree creem It man 543 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 2: ip Man. Well, why am I telling you this? You're 544 00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 2: not interested in culture? See how I did that? I 545 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 2: refer to martial arts movies as culture. 546 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: Okay, education was wasted on me. 547 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 2: That fancy's going you with two with stars? Wake sure 548 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 2: my parents' money? What do you think is going to 549 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 2: happen next? How long till the DA announces the DP 550 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 2: and the Jocelyn case Jocelyn Nungree case. 551 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 1: I think it'll be soon. I don't think they're gonna 552 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: wait on it. I think they're gonna move very quickly. 553 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 2: I think they're gonna wait and that because they've already 554 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 2: started claiming they have to wait for DNA, which is 555 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 2: not true. What do you think maybe two weeks? Three? Oh? 556 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 1: I don't think it'll be three. I really don't. I 557 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 1: think they're gonna come back and get this thing handled. 558 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 2: Okay, we'll see, we'll see. 559 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 1: You go enjoy your sister and niece and y'all just 560 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 1: have a wonderful time. And how lovely that she is 561 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 1: there to cook those incredible meals. 562 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 2: But that are all so beautiful. Y'all are going to 563 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 2: have such fun. We really are. It's such a blessing. 564 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 2: Our fairies very very close. It's not the same without 565 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,399 Speaker 2: my dad, but that said, we do have each other. 566 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:16,439 Speaker 2: So I'm really really blessed. Can you go go get 567 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 2: some culture? I advise you just hop on to the 568 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:23,799 Speaker 2: TV and stream some Donigane martial arts. Start with ip 569 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:29,120 Speaker 2: men ip as in Pennsylvania. Men Air, Go Air go, 570 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:34,320 Speaker 2: you can get some culture. Girls. Bye, y'all, all right, honey, 571 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 2: love you dearly. 572 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,239 Speaker 1: I'm Cheryl McCollum and this is the Crime Round Up 573 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:40,799 Speaker 1: with Zones Heaven