Speaker 1: Welcome in What's Right with Nick Right? Episode three forty one.
Speaker 1: This episode of What's Right with Nick Right is presented
Speaker 1: to you by boost Mobile. The Lakers have sold, We
Speaker 1: likely get a new champion tonight, more mayhem in the
Speaker 1: WNBA that I actually think is the best thing imaginable
Speaker 1: for all parties involved, and a massive development in the
Speaker 1: lives of one of the hosts of this show. We
Speaker 1: will get to all of that on the show. First
Speaker 1: of all, a reminder to everyone like rate, subscribe, review,
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Speaker 1: Speaking of subscribing to things, I may have put the
Speaker 1: First Thing's First crew in a bit of a tough
Speaker 1: spot because we have been on a slow try track
Speaker 1: to a million, and I was very confident that we
Speaker 1: were gonna get to the million before the end of
Speaker 1: the NBA Finals, and so I said and then kept saying,
Speaker 1: if we don't get to one million before the NBA
Speaker 1: finals end, then we are shutting the channel down and
Speaker 1: starting over. Now, I don't know that I really had
Speaker 1: the authorization to do that, but that's what I said.
Speaker 1: And I'm a man that while I bet a lot,
Speaker 1: I've never not paid a bet. And so this is
Speaker 1: a little cross promotion if I could, because we the NBA,
Speaker 1: you know, the season could end in thirteen hours, and
Speaker 1: First Things First is at nine hundred and ninety eight thousand,
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Speaker 1: under YouTube subscribers on First Things First, or I'm gonna
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Speaker 1: subscribe that at least for the day, that would be
Speaker 1: greatly appreciated as well. Tonse, how are you pretty good?
Speaker 2: Pop's amazing? How you doing?
Speaker 1: I'm doing well. The first things first, we're gonna get it.
Speaker 1: You have the Suite at Home silver plaque from YouTube.
Speaker 1: We're gonna get the gold plaque, unless, of course, we
Speaker 1: have to start all the way back from zero, which
Speaker 1: would not be great before we get to straighten the
Speaker 1: voicemail brought to you by Boost Mobile. We do for
Speaker 1: new viewers or listeners, We do have an annual tradition
Speaker 1: on this show that my guess is Demanse doesn't quite remember,
Speaker 1: but he is featured in. So it is time to
Speaker 1: rehash our yearly challenge a quick update on it. Go
Speaker 1: ahead and roll the tape. Much like last year. I
Speaker 1: have a crisp clean, one hundred dollars bill right here.
Speaker 1: This will become yours if you can name the two
Speaker 1: teams in the Stanley Cup final.
Speaker 2: This is Stanley Cup is a that's that's hockey.
Speaker 1: So, Demanse, I did you favor this year? I waited
Speaker 1: until it was over, so maybe it has come across
Speaker 1: your feed.
Speaker 2: The oilers were in it.
Speaker 1: The oilers that I'm not even gonna make you say
Speaker 1: where they're from. The answers Edmonton. They and they played
Speaker 1: and they lost two drum roll.
Speaker 2: Hold on, let me get the espn ap real quick.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, I'm gonna was it Panthers last year,
Speaker 3: because That's what I'm gonna go with this year.
Speaker 2: Was it the Panthers?
Speaker 1: Wow, let's go nail it. It was same. What a shock?
Speaker 1: You nailed it? Panthers oilers for the second straight year
Speaker 1: in the Stanley Kop A little mini dynasty in Miami.
Speaker 1: This is straight the voicemail brought to you by Boost Mobile.
Speaker 1: Noah Lyles calls off his race with Tyreek Hill as
Speaker 1: no Allile has done the impossible, which is make the
Speaker 1: American one hundred meter dash gold medalist unlikable. Well done.
Speaker 1: Noah Lyles and Tommy DeVito and Jackson Dart discussed going
Speaker 1: on Love Island. Here's I've never watched a single second
Speaker 1: of Love Island. I do, though, say with some level
Speaker 1: of confidence that if someone if Tommy DeVito came to
Speaker 1: me and was like, what is the single best way
Speaker 1: to maximize my earnings over the next five years, keep
Speaker 1: grinding at the NFL as a third or fourth string quarterback,
Speaker 1: or try to get on next season of Love Island
Speaker 1: and see what that parlay's into. I'd say, buddy, put
Speaker 1: the football down, throw some tanning oil on, get your
Speaker 1: ass out there on Love Island. That would be my
Speaker 1: sincere Deloitte style consulting advice. All right, like rate, subscribe, review,
Speaker 1: do all that demands. You're not in person, So while
Speaker 1: you are reading this question, I am going to sell
Speaker 1: you one hundred dollars because of fair is fair. You
Speaker 1: nailed it, and I don't think you cheated. I know
Speaker 1: I didn't cheat it. My history is a natural reaction
Speaker 1: of being thrilled that you nailed it. I'm proud of
Speaker 1: you are. Let's go ahead and get started. Uh.
Speaker 3: So, the Bus family is selling their majority steak for
Speaker 3: the and the Lakers for a little bit over my
Speaker 3: net worth the sale to Dodgers owner Mark Walter.
Speaker 2: So that's a team valuation at a record ten billion.
Speaker 3: What do you think? What are your thoughts on this sell?
Speaker 3: What does it mean for the Lakers?
Speaker 1: Okay, so this means a ton and where I think
Speaker 1: people are going to be a little confused. Hold on
Speaker 1: one second, go ahead and send their next pay one
Speaker 1: hundred bucks fresh in your account. You should get the
Speaker 1: text here any moment. Thanks thanks for.
Speaker 3: The panthers and oils, oilers for being consistent you go,
Speaker 3: and thank you to.
Speaker 1: Me for not saying, by the way, I need the
Speaker 1: cities they're from, because I don't know if he's even
Speaker 1: nailed that. But it doesn't matter. All right, this is monumental,
Speaker 1: So let me let me kind of do this the
Speaker 1: long way because I think it's the right way. So
Speaker 1: doctor Buss bought the Lakers, gosh, almost fifty years ago
Speaker 1: and was an unbelievable steward for this franchise. It obviously
Speaker 1: already had a history because Wilton Jerry West had been there,
Speaker 1: but Doctor Buss ushered in the Showtime era and helped
Speaker 1: really ensure the Lakers became the premier franchise in the league.
Speaker 1: And during Doctor Buss's tenure, when he was alive, they
Speaker 1: basically had no lean years. You went straight from Showtime
Speaker 1: into a brief post HIV for Magic, you know valley,
Speaker 1: but you still had Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exell, he
Speaker 1: still had you know, you weren't a laughingstock. Got shack
Speaker 1: right into Shaq and Kobe. A brief valley for three
Speaker 1: years with Kobe, but you still had Kobe, and then
Speaker 1: right into Kobe Powe and they were, you know, for
Speaker 1: forty years, consistently excellent. And then he passed the team
Speaker 1: went down, was passed down to his children, and then
Speaker 1: they had the first actual real bad stretch of Lakers basketball,
Speaker 1: the tail end of Kobe's career, the very end post Achilles,
Speaker 1: and then the few years after him when they had
Speaker 1: you know, the number two pick, like three out of
Speaker 1: five years when they couldn't get things right, and then
Speaker 1: Lebron came in and saved them. But while that was happening,
Speaker 1: there was a lot of inter family fighting, should we sell,
Speaker 1: should we not sell? Who's going to be in charge?
Speaker 1: Genie ends up taking over Genie. There's six Bus kids.
Speaker 1: The rule was the majority have to agree to a sale.
Speaker 1: You know, a few years ago pre COVID. I believe
Speaker 1: some of the bus kids wanted to sell. Genie staved
Speaker 1: them off, and now I don't know if it was unanimous,
Speaker 1: but according to Ramona Shelburne, who knows Genie Bus very well,
Speaker 1: she was on board with the sale. And the other
Speaker 1: important piece of this that people have to understand. And
Speaker 1: I apologize if people already understand this stuff, but I
Speaker 1: would imagine some people they need this background. The Lakers
Speaker 1: did spend money on the court, so they were, you know,
Speaker 1: over the last decade, I think spent the seventh most
Speaker 1: in luxury tax money of any team. Now you might
Speaker 1: say you're the most valuable franchise, you're in the second
Speaker 1: biggest market. Seventh most is still kind of on the
Speaker 1: thriftier side. And people bring up the fact that they
Speaker 1: let Alex Crusoe walk because of finances, But they were
Speaker 1: not a spendthrifteam. On the court, they maybe didn't spend
Speaker 1: the way They certainly didn't spend the way the Clippers
Speaker 1: have or the Warriors have or the Suns are right now,
Speaker 1: but it should be noted the Clippers and the Sun
Speaker 1: spending that way has not done them any good. So
Speaker 1: on the court, they were not cheap. It was everything else.
Speaker 1: It was them low balling ty Lou because they were
Speaker 1: cheap with coaches. It was that they did not have
Speaker 1: the scouting department and the analytics departments and the other
Speaker 1: things that go along with really making your franchise cutting
Speaker 1: edge and giving you every edge you can have. And
Speaker 1: it was because they were cash poor. And I know
Speaker 1: that sounds weird, but when it's a it's not that
Speaker 1: incredibly dissimilar to what you at times see with the
Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys, which is it's this brand, it's the most
Speaker 1: valuable team in the league. However, the ownership group, their
Speaker 1: business is the team. And when your business is the
Speaker 1: team as opposed to the team being one of your businesses,
Speaker 1: you don't have these incredibly deep pockets to dip into
Speaker 1: at all times. And because of that, and this was
Speaker 1: a big criticism I had had of the Lakers for years.
Speaker 1: They were run like a family business. It was Genie
Speaker 1: Buss and Rob Polenka. Polenka who was there because he
Speaker 1: was Kobe was essentially family. Rob was Kobe's guy, so
Speaker 1: he gets kind of godfathered in Kurt Rambis, who was
Speaker 1: essentially family. Linda Rambis, Kurt's wife, who was one of
Speaker 1: the most influential people in the organization, and that you
Speaker 1: know magic before he walked out because he said Rob
Speaker 1: was basically a snake in the grass. That was the
Speaker 1: brain trust, and they were not maximizing the advantages they
Speaker 1: have naturally of being the Los Angeles Lakers. It is
Speaker 1: actually not that diy similar to what the Los Angeles
Speaker 1: Dodgers had going on when Frank McCourt random Now they
Speaker 1: were better run than the Dodgers and are not comparing
Speaker 1: Genie Busts to the mccourts. However, Frank McCourt, particularly post divorce,
Speaker 1: was cash broke to a degree. And what happened with
Speaker 1: the Dodgers they got bought by this same group that
Speaker 1: now just bought the Lakers, and they became a rocket ship.
Speaker 1: Now baseball's not basketball. Baseball has no salary cap, baseball,
Speaker 1: you can just buy players. Basketball is not the same.
Speaker 1: But that's not all. The Dodgers didn't just throw money
Speaker 1: at everything. They hired the best GM in the world,
Speaker 1: and Andrew Friedman are president of baseball Operations. They greatly
Speaker 1: improved every aspect of their organization. And so, as crazy
Speaker 1: as this sounds, the person the only person involved with
Speaker 1: the Lakers who I'm sure saw this news and I'm
Speaker 1: sure he knew what was coming and was a little
Speaker 1: nervous or non you know, nonplussed about it, was Rob Blinka.
Speaker 1: Because this group has shown we value cutting edge front
Speaker 1: offices and we are willing to spend on coaches and
Speaker 1: gms and team presidents. And so that is the Lakers
Speaker 1: already had this built in mega advantage of being the Lakers,
Speaker 1: being in LA, being the number one free agent destination,
Speaker 1: all of that. If you then add to it that
Speaker 1: they are now going to have as deep pockets as
Speaker 1: any team in the league and be as well run
Speaker 1: as any team in the league. It is really really
Speaker 1: great news for Laker fans. I think it's great news
Speaker 1: for the NBA as a whole. I don't you know,
Speaker 1: if you're a fan of another team, it's a bummer.
Speaker 1: And I think that one of the you know, evening
Speaker 1: of the playing field, so to speak, was that the
Speaker 1: Lakers weren't fully leveraging the fact that they're the Lakers,
Speaker 1: and that they should be they you know, willing to
Speaker 1: spend whatever, and that they should be run by the
Speaker 1: smartest people. They should be considered the premier job in
Speaker 1: the NBA. The Lakers head coach should have never Luke
Speaker 1: Walton into Frank Vogel and I listen, Frank Vogel won
Speaker 1: a championship. I understand that, into Darvin Ham and and
Speaker 1: so that's what, in my opinion, this is. That's why
Speaker 1: this matters. And then you get to the ten billion
Speaker 1: dollar number, which by the way, I was on Collins
Speaker 1: Pod last night and I got this wrong. So the
Speaker 1: Celtics just sold for six. I didn't get that wrong.
Speaker 1: And when I saw the Celtics sell for six, they
Speaker 1: don't own their arena and the Lakers sell for ten,
Speaker 1: I thought the Lakers owned Staples. They don't. They don't
Speaker 1: own the arena. And so the fact that they went
Speaker 1: for sixty seven percent more than Boston is jarring. And
Speaker 1: the fact that we have had in a decade, a
Speaker 1: progression of when Balmer bought the Clippers, that was twenty fourteen.
Speaker 1: The Clippers were good and had stars. They're obviously not
Speaker 1: the Lakers, but they are in Los Angeles. People were
Speaker 1: shocked that Steve Balmer was willing to pay two billion
Speaker 1: dollars for the Los Angeles Clippers. That was eleven years ago.
Speaker 1: When the Suns went for four, the Hornets went for three,
Speaker 1: the Celtics went for six, and the Lakers go for
Speaker 1: ten billion dollars.
Speaker 3: The cops going, so, why are these teams selling right
Speaker 3: now with the expansion coming, Like, wouldn't it be time
Speaker 3: to hold on to your team?
Speaker 2: What's going on?
Speaker 1: Well, so that's so. So here's the other piece of
Speaker 1: it with the expansion. So there is going to be expansion,
Speaker 1: and you know it's almost assuredly going to be Seattle
Speaker 1: in Vegas, and the expansion fee is probably going to
Speaker 1: be six billion dollars six billion, right, So that six
Speaker 1: billion plus six billion is twelve billion. Where is the
Speaker 1: expansion fee go? It goes to the thirty other owners.
Speaker 1: It's the basically the tax the new owners have to
Speaker 1: pay because now the pie is not going to be
Speaker 1: split thirty ways. It's going to be split thirty two ways,
Speaker 1: so they have to buy their way into that. So
Speaker 1: what's twelve billion divided by thirty The answer to that
Speaker 1: is four hundred million dollars. So every owner when they expand,
Speaker 1: if the expansion would bee is six billion, will get
Speaker 1: a check for four hundred million dollars. I understand, demons
Speaker 1: your thought on shu. You know, why wouldn't you just
Speaker 1: wait until you get that check. Here's my guess. My
Speaker 1: guess is that was built into the sale. Like so
Speaker 1: when you see ten billion, is the real value that
Speaker 1: was kind of agreed upon nine and a half billion,
Speaker 1: But it's like, hey, do it now and I'll get
Speaker 1: that four hundred million in a year. I'll give that
Speaker 1: to you on the front end. So the it would
Speaker 1: that four hundred million is a real number, but it's
Speaker 1: also amazingly only four percent of this sales price, and
Speaker 1: so that's not gonna be the hang up here. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: these numbers are. It's so well. The way our brains
Speaker 1: deal with numbers is funny because in a lot of ways,
Speaker 1: like if you heard somebody uh like some to at
Speaker 1: least for my brain, like seven hundred and ninety five
Speaker 1: million dollars feels like when you hear that, like it's
Speaker 1: more than one point two billion, just because like the
Speaker 1: not even though obviously it's it's sixty percent of it,
Speaker 1: at least to me in my head. So, like four
Speaker 1: hundred million sounds like obviously a massive amount of money,
Speaker 1: and ten billions sounds like a massive amount of money.
Speaker 1: But when you put in context four hundred million is
Speaker 1: you could stack up twenty five different four piles of
Speaker 1: four hundred million, and that would then be ten billion.
Speaker 1: That's when you really conceptualize what we're talking about here.
Speaker 1: Go ahead with the with your follow.
Speaker 2: Ups, Uh, what does this mean for your boy Lebron?
Speaker 1: So not what people think. So I think the initial
Speaker 1: reaction is what does this mean for Lebron, like with
Speaker 1: his future with the Lakers. But he had a good
Speaker 1: relationship with the Buses. I'm sure he'll have a good
Speaker 1: relationship with this group. My guess is he already knows
Speaker 1: this group, especially because I mean they already owned twenty
Speaker 1: six percent of the team, right, so the they So
Speaker 1: I don't you know whether or not Lebron was going
Speaker 1: to stay with the Lakers for the rest of his career.
Speaker 1: I don't think is really impacted by this, especially because
Speaker 1: a lot of the different things I'm discussing that the
Speaker 1: Lakers can improve upon, they're not like a me quick
Speaker 1: fixes or you know, quick changes, and Lebron doesn't have
Speaker 1: that much time left. What it oddly means for Lebron
Speaker 1: is his ultimate goal of owning that team in Vegas
Speaker 1: just got that much harder because this cements like there
Speaker 1: may be there would have been a pushback a bit on.
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, the most of franchise has ever sold
Speaker 1: for it is six billion dollars, and now that's what
Speaker 1: you want, you know, the two new owners or ownership groups,
Speaker 1: it would be probably for the expansion teams to pay
Speaker 1: like you can't say so you're saying we are, as
Speaker 1: you know, the most valuable team in the league when
Speaker 1: the Celtics cell for six and then essentially you're gonna
Speaker 1: charge me six to by the Las Vegas team or
Speaker 1: six to buy the Seattle team. But now that's not
Speaker 1: the case. Now the most expensive team sold for ten,
Speaker 1: So Adam Silver will be able to pitch six as
Speaker 1: Hey Bright price the brick's only going up. It's sixty
Speaker 1: percent of what our most valuable team is worth, and
Speaker 1: so Lebron's Lebron's got made more money in his career
Speaker 1: on and off the court than any American athlete other
Speaker 1: than Michael Jordan and maybe Magic because of all the
Speaker 1: Magic's businesses, any you know, big time American star athlete.
Speaker 1: But just because he's made over a billion doesn't mean
Speaker 1: he has anything close to a billion cash. And now
Speaker 1: we're talking about the franchise being six billion. So I
Speaker 1: know Lebron has been adamant forever that he wants to
Speaker 1: one day be the owner of an NBA team. And listen,
Speaker 1: there might be an ownership group. I would imagine there's
Speaker 1: an ownership group that would say, hey, you put in
Speaker 1: five percent of the six billion. You put in three
Speaker 1: hundred million, and you will be the you know, face
Speaker 1: of the franchise, lead voice, all of that. But if
Speaker 1: you're not the majority financial owner, you're always kind of
Speaker 1: at the mercy of the guy or guys who are.
Speaker 1: And that's also why this is now the third straight sale.
Speaker 1: Might be yeah, it's the third straight sale that we
Speaker 1: have heard. Oh don't worry, the previous owner is gonna stay.
Speaker 1: The governor Cuban said he was gonna do it. That
Speaker 1: didn't last with Grousbeck with the Celtics said he's gonna
Speaker 1: do it. We'll see, And now Jeanie Buss, their statement
Speaker 1: was she's gonna stay on as governor. I don't know
Speaker 1: man teams that buy guys groups or guys that buy
Speaker 1: teams don't typically do it because they don't want to
Speaker 1: run it. And so we'll see there. All right, what
Speaker 1: else do we have?
Speaker 2: How much do you think the Luca trade played into
Speaker 2: the price of.
Speaker 1: This None at all, None at all, Like I it
Speaker 1: would have mattered. It would have mattered. Demand's a for
Speaker 1: a different market, and matet well, maybe a tiny bit,
Speaker 1: maybe the fact that the Laker's future is now secure
Speaker 1: in theory for the next decade. But they still got
Speaker 1: to get Luca resigned. Now, he did send a nice
Speaker 1: tweet about this that makes it seem like he's happy
Speaker 1: about it, But there is because it's the Lakers. I
Speaker 1: don't think it's not the same way that if Luca
Speaker 1: had been traded to Memphis, what that would do for Memphis?
Speaker 1: You know what, Like the the Lakers just have this
Speaker 1: inherent value that other teams simply do not have. Uh
Speaker 1: So I don't think it played as big of a
Speaker 1: role as people think. I do think here's the other
Speaker 1: piece of it before we move on. I I wonder
Speaker 1: how this landed on the desk of a bunch of
Speaker 1: NFL owners where they're like, hold on a second, here
Speaker 1: it like, I'm gonna look it up real quick. What
Speaker 1: did the hold on? What did the Commanders sell for?
Speaker 1: Was it six billion dollars sales price? I should have
Speaker 1: looked this up before. Yeah, six billion? Okay, if you
Speaker 1: I'm not listen. I don't think Jerry Jones wants to
Speaker 1: sell the Dallas Cowboys. But if the Los Angeles Lakers
Speaker 1: are worth ten billion dollars, are the Cowboys worth fifteen? Honestly?
Speaker 1: Like if the most valuable team in the NFL in
Speaker 1: the NBA is worth ten, are when the the Broncos
Speaker 1: just sold for four point six five to the Walton
Speaker 1: Penner Group, Right, well, that's a bargain. I think if
Speaker 1: the Sun, if the Phoenix Suns are worth four, the
Speaker 1: Denver Broncos in that league are only worth four six five.
Speaker 1: So the NFL is the the dominant league obviously in
Speaker 1: this country. And if we now have what is this
Speaker 1: eleven figure sales for? Is that right? Eleven figures, yeah,
Speaker 1: nine zeros, uh eleven figure sales for the NBA? Then
Speaker 1: what are the Cowboys worth? What are the Steelers worth?
Speaker 1: What are the Niners worth? Like to me, those are
Speaker 1: real questions. What are Mike Kansas City Chiefs worth? Are
Speaker 1: the given the NFL versus the NBA? Like how much
Speaker 1: bigger of a brand are the Lakers than the Chiefs?
Speaker 1: They're a bigger brand, but the NFL is such a
Speaker 1: bigger business, Like, if the Lakers are worth ten billion,
Speaker 1: are the Chiefs worth seven and a half? Maybe? And
Speaker 1: so I just I there was a time when and
Speaker 1: I talked with Colin about this last night, that it
Speaker 1: felt like these sports teams would only go up in
Speaker 1: value and were undervel I I wonder if we are
Speaker 1: reaching equilibrium where these teams are properly valued the and
Speaker 1: then my favorite like anecdote about how quickly this has moved.
Speaker 1: And I understand one is baseball, one is basketball, and
Speaker 1: one is Los Angeles, one is Kansas City. But I
Speaker 1: can't get over this. In the year two thousand, so
Speaker 1: not the seventies. In the year two thousand, the Kansas
Speaker 1: City Royals sold for ninety six million dollars Wow. Think
Speaker 1: about that. It's like think in in I won and
Speaker 1: so the.
Speaker 2: And they're saying there just told me.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that the Rays are about to sell
Speaker 1: for one point seven billion. The Rays are the Rays
Speaker 1: the least valuable team in baseball? What did the A's
Speaker 1: just sell for? I don't know. The A's are probably
Speaker 1: the least valuable, but maybe not now that they're in Vegas.
Speaker 1: But I think the valuations are catching up with reality
Speaker 1: at this point. But ten billion dollars is a gobsmacking number.
Speaker 1: And one last point, I think the other thing you
Speaker 1: do worry is something Simmons has talked about a lot,
Speaker 1: and he's smart on the new owner syndrome thing coming
Speaker 1: into play. In general, you worry about that. You worry
Speaker 1: way less when it's a group that owns the Dodgers
Speaker 1: and Chelsea already. It's like, no, they know what they're doing,
Speaker 1: they know how to do it all right. The NBA
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Speaker 1: All right, demon's eight, let's get to those NBA finals
Speaker 1: and let's get to the Pacers side of things.
Speaker 3: Halliburn, unfortunately, is currently a game time decision with that
Speaker 3: CAF injury he got in the last game Indiana season
Speaker 3: is obviously on the line. What do you think they
Speaker 3: need to continue this crazy run and get the Dubs night?
Speaker 1: Listen, I let's talk about Halliburton for a second, Pal, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because you thought I was too hard on him.
Speaker 3: I mean with him being a game time decision today,
Speaker 3: then I mean he really must have been feeling something
Speaker 3: the other day when I.
Speaker 1: Don't doubt that he was feeling something. He has to play, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean like, if it's a game time decision
Speaker 3: and it can be done, sounds like they're on the
Speaker 3: fence about it.
Speaker 1: And listen, if he goes out there and it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: he can't move or he can't help us, then you
Speaker 1: just put him on the bench. And I end like
Speaker 1: and let McConnell play. And I under people are more
Speaker 1: scared understandably about calf injuries than really any other type
Speaker 1: of injuries. And it's because of the Achilles and it's
Speaker 1: because we all have KD PTSD, which I understand. But
Speaker 1: here is what I would consider the major major distinction there.
Speaker 1: Kevin Durant got injured in the twenty nineteen playoffs on
Speaker 1: May eighth and was instantly ruled out for a while
Speaker 1: and then came back June tenth. Okay, that is not
Speaker 1: this situation. Kevin Durant got hurt in a game, left
Speaker 1: the game and then you know, mid third quarter, and
Speaker 1: then was just gone, gone for a month. Tyrese Halliburton
Speaker 1: got injured in this game, missed a few minutes, and
Speaker 1: then played another twenty seven So I I've be If
Speaker 1: Haliburton plays through something and then suffers a devastating career
Speaker 1: altering injury, that is the worst case scenario. It's a nightmare.
Speaker 1: Everyone obviously would feel sick about him. I understand that.
Speaker 1: But the KDS situation was so drastically different, where he
Speaker 1: suffered an injury that immediately knocked him out not only
Speaker 1: of that game, but of the next month of basketball.
Speaker 1: And then when he came back. Yes, he was hitting
Speaker 1: jump shots in those eleven minutes, but he was not
Speaker 1: moving anything like himself and wasn't moving laterally in any
Speaker 1: of that stuff. That's not what I saw. I'm obviously
Speaker 1: not a doctor. I would have to. I believe Tyre's
Speaker 1: Halliburton gonna play tonight, And to answer Demons's question, to
Speaker 1: keep this miracle run alive, he has to play, and
Speaker 1: he has to be impactful. Like the Pacers are not
Speaker 1: as good as the Thunder are? Are the Pacers better
Speaker 1: than their seed? Yes? Where the Pacers underestimated these playoffs
Speaker 1: by many people, myself included, hand up, Yes, are they
Speaker 1: as good as the Oklahoma City Thunder this year? Absolutely not,
Speaker 1: No matter when how you slice it, where you look
Speaker 1: at it, from from it, they're not as good as them.
Speaker 1: Their their path to winning the series involved exactly what
Speaker 1: they had done for the first three and a half
Speaker 1: games of this series, stealing game they had no business winning.
Speaker 1: Check in game one, win their home games, check in
Speaker 1: game three, and check through the first three quarters of
Speaker 1: game four. What in my opinion, they could not survive
Speaker 1: was just like they won one they weren't supposed to
Speaker 1: win in game one, they then lost one they weren't
Speaker 1: supposed to lose in game four. Like you can look
Speaker 1: at it and be like, oh, that evened out, Yes
Speaker 1: it did, but they're not good enough compared to the
Speaker 1: thunder to survive the lucky games evening out. They needed
Speaker 1: to win the lucky game and not lose the unlucky game.
Speaker 1: And so what is their path tonight? Their path?
Speaker 3: Say it again, fucking Jaylen Williams up. That's just surface level.
Speaker 3: But I think I stop him.
Speaker 1: I don't actually think. I think their path is an
Speaker 1: offensive one, not a defensive one, demonte. I think their
Speaker 1: path is that at home. Matherin, who by the way,
Speaker 1: it's his birthday. I didn't know that until you guys
Speaker 1: told me. Matherin has one of those eighteen points in
Speaker 1: fourteen minutes types of nights for the first time all series.
Speaker 1: Miles Turner plays an A level Miles Turner game. Because
Speaker 1: when I was laying out how can the Pacers win
Speaker 1: the series, one of the things I said was, Miles
Speaker 1: Turner's got to have at least one like, oh shit,
Speaker 1: Miles Turner crushed and like Miles Turner this year, I'm
Speaker 1: looking at it right now. Five times twenty five plus
Speaker 1: twice scored thirty plus Miles Turner this year, uh, seven
Speaker 1: times hit five or more threes in a game, Like
Speaker 1: that's he has that in him. I'm now checking his
Speaker 1: playoff career high. Miles Turner in the playoffs twice has
Speaker 1: scored twenty nine points in his career. Miles Turner in
Speaker 1: the playoffs five times hit four or more threes in
Speaker 1: his career, including twice this year. That's gotta happen, like
Speaker 1: they This is that absolutely, because I think Halliburton's going
Speaker 1: to play and I think he's going to have to
Speaker 1: be effective, but I don't think it's realistic to be like, hey,
Speaker 1: remember that thirty point triple double. Was it zero turnover
Speaker 1: game or something close to it? You add against the Knicks,
Speaker 1: excuse me, recreate that. So you're not going to get
Speaker 1: a monster Halliburton game. So what you need is your
Speaker 1: other guys who can get hot to get hot. Because
Speaker 1: I also don't think here's the other thing, demonse. I
Speaker 1: don't think they have the ability to just flat shut
Speaker 1: down Jalen Williams or shit. I think you can hope
Speaker 1: they miss shots, you know, like.
Speaker 3: The Williams, I feel I feel like he got a
Speaker 3: lot of easy buggets, like somebody has to be glued
Speaker 3: to him. There was a lot of easy like transition,
Speaker 3: rotation type of problems.
Speaker 1: That's totally fairer. That's totally fairer. But I guess you
Speaker 1: can ask nies Smith Nie Smith because he is strong
Speaker 1: enough to try to deal with him. The problem is
Speaker 1: like nim Hard's not big enough, all right, and you
Speaker 1: really want Nie Smith dealing with Shay like the and
Speaker 1: so this is why the Thunder are great team. They
Speaker 1: they there's just a lot of different ways they can
Speaker 1: beat you. And so I so I think that obviously
Speaker 1: they need Halliburton to play well. You can't rely on
Speaker 1: TJ McConnell, you know, giving you whatever he gave you
Speaker 1: eighteen off the bench again, you can rely on him
Speaker 1: giving you something. But that was an unbelievable McConnell performance.
Speaker 1: The guy I'd be looking at tonight. The two guys
Speaker 1: X factors for the Pacers are Matherine and Miles Turner. Like,
Speaker 1: can Mathne and Miles Turner combine? I this is gonna
Speaker 1: sound like an insane ask, but for them to win,
Speaker 1: I think Mathne and Miles Turner have to combine for
Speaker 1: forty five honestly, like like each of them either each
Speaker 1: of them get to twenty or one of them has,
Speaker 1: you know, close to thirty. I think that's what they're
Speaker 1: and and by the way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Jay and all that pass in there as well.
Speaker 1: I mean, you got all the pacers to me is
Speaker 1: here's the thing. And you respond to this. If we're
Speaker 1: talking about the pacers winning, it is a given's gotta
Speaker 1: be excellent. Oh you know what I mean, Like I'm
Speaker 1: just I'm baking that in. That is gonna give you
Speaker 1: at least twenty five, like he just has to. But
Speaker 1: it's the it's where you're getting the other. You know,
Speaker 1: if Ifam gives you thirty, let's say he gives you thirty,
Speaker 1: where are you gonna get the other eighty five points
Speaker 1: you need to win, need one hundred and fifteen. And
Speaker 1: I know this sounds like the most surface level simplistic.
Speaker 1: You know this isn't the Zach Lopod like the and
Speaker 1: I say that out of respect to Zach. I get that.
Speaker 1: But you need one hundred and fifteen points tonight. Yeah,
Speaker 1: every time you scored one eleven you've won. Let's call
Speaker 1: it one fifteen. Let's also pencil Pascal Siakamen for thirty.
Speaker 1: We got eighty five more points we need. I think
Speaker 1: it is irrational to pencil Haliburton in for more than fifteen,
Speaker 1: all right, so let's give him the fifteen. Now we're
Speaker 1: at forty five. Nied Smith and Emhard they combine for
Speaker 1: twenty five. Now we're at sixty five. We need fifty
Speaker 1: more points. You need fifty more points. So McConnell, Turner, Mathern,
Speaker 1: can the three of you get me fifty? Pascal gets
Speaker 1: me thirty. Halliburton's you know fine, Nie Smith and Nimhart
Speaker 1: are out there for their defensive contributions. Can Turner, McConnell,
Speaker 1: Mathern combine for fifty? That's your path? And then game seven,
Speaker 1: shit happens like that's like the what's the path for
Speaker 1: Game seven in Oklahoma City? I don't know, Man, somebody
Speaker 1: get hot and the that's kind of that to me.
Speaker 3: Somebody's gonna be off for okay, see what like, somebody's
Speaker 3: not gonna have it. I just feel in the page
Speaker 3: about for tonight, for game tonight, for tonight fro see.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's uh.
Speaker 2: Somebody's not gonna happen.
Speaker 1: I mean, well, let's talk about the well, we'll talk
Speaker 1: about the Okac piece of this in a minute. I
Speaker 1: know you have one follow up on the Pacers.
Speaker 3: If they lose this game, is this the end for
Speaker 3: the Pacers or is this just the beginning?
Speaker 1: I mean, end is too strong.
Speaker 3: But I'm gonna say they're not gonna make it this
Speaker 3: far for a while again or something like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I'm gonna say. I don't Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: the Pacers have been impressive. They have held their own
Speaker 1: that more than held their own in this series, you know,
Speaker 1: more than held their own in these playoffs. They've been
Speaker 1: great and they have held their own in this series.
Speaker 1: With that said, part of the legend that Tyrese Haliburton
Speaker 1: has created this series is this guy hit four, hit
Speaker 1: a buzzer beater in every single round of these playoffs,
Speaker 1: hit a buzzer beater in every round of the playoffs.
Speaker 1: He has four for his career. Now shots to tire
Speaker 1: or take the lead in the final second or whatever
Speaker 1: of a playoff game. The all time record is eight
Speaker 1: by bron so that part of their run is probably
Speaker 1: not year over year sustainable. Now, I do really like
Speaker 1: their roster, and I do really like what they are building.
Speaker 1: But the question I think people fairly would ask is
Speaker 1: I mean, I just I'm being nicer, and nicer is
Speaker 1: the own word. I'm being more optimistic because I it
Speaker 1: feels rotten for the greatest Pacers season we've seen ever,
Speaker 1: and that's what this is to be like, yeah, and
Speaker 1: you'll never be back. But gets Man takes a leap,
Speaker 1: Halliburton becomes a slightly more consistent score Like, no, they
Speaker 1: have I don't think they are I don't think they're
Speaker 1: going anywhere as far as like, oh, we'll never hear
Speaker 1: from them again. But if I if you were to
Speaker 1: be like, hey, even money, bet even money take either side.
Speaker 1: Do the Pacers in the next five years win the
Speaker 1: Eastern Conference again? I would think the smarter money would
Speaker 1: be on no that, And so it doesn't. I'm not
Speaker 1: saying they're done, it's over. It's they're not an old
Speaker 1: team all that. But would I take, you know, set
Speaker 1: the over under over the next five years, the rest
Speaker 1: of this decade on Pacers Conference championships, after this year
Speaker 1: out a half, I'd probably take the under. I would
Speaker 1: take the under.
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Speaker 1: All right, let's go to the thunderside of things, pal All.
Speaker 3: Right, so a new champion will be crowned either today
Speaker 3: or Sunday. So let's go through a couple of scenarios. Uh,
Speaker 3: first bucket, we've got of OKC wins. Do you think
Speaker 3: they go down as a as an all time team
Speaker 3: or if things changed over the years as.
Speaker 1: Far No, this isn't all like so they they would go,
Speaker 1: what's the math of eighty two and eighteen? If they no,
Speaker 1: eighty two and hold on, how many games have you
Speaker 1: lost these playoffs? Three one, they've lost six, they were
Speaker 1: sixty eight. Yeah, so eighty two and twenty if they
Speaker 1: eighty four and twenty, pardon me, they're If they win
Speaker 1: the championship, they have the league MVP, and they now
Speaker 1: have just from a box checking standpoint, it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: do they have a second legitimate star probably in Jalen Williams.
Speaker 1: They also will become and this will be as far
Speaker 1: as an all time team, something that's important, something people
Speaker 1: reference in the future, which is that swarming perimeter defense.
Speaker 1: And so do I think that the it's a tricky
Speaker 1: kind of turn of phrase. The there is only one
Speaker 1: team that we look at as an all time team
Speaker 1: that it wasn't part of a bigger run, and that's
Speaker 1: the eighty three six ers where they only won the
Speaker 1: one championship and they added Moses Malone that year, but
Speaker 1: it kind of was part of a bigger run because
Speaker 1: the Sixers had made three NBA finals in the years
Speaker 1: in the five six years leading up to it, so
Speaker 1: it was a bigger run. And then Moses Malone drops in.
Speaker 1: But all of the other all time teams that we
Speaker 1: talk about, the seventeen Warriors, the thirteen heat, the two
Speaker 1: thousand one Lakers, you know, the ninety six Bulls, the
Speaker 1: eighty six Celtics, the eighty five Lakers, like those teams
Speaker 1: they won. You know, it was a bigger run that
Speaker 1: they were a part of. So to join those groups,
Speaker 1: actually you have to go on a run. What happens
Speaker 1: is teams go on a run and then we say,
Speaker 1: of those during that run, what was their best team.
Speaker 1: That's kind we kind of reverse engineer it. But if
Speaker 1: we just talk about every year is totally independent, single
Speaker 1: season in a vacuum, this was I don't know, one
Speaker 1: of the fifteen most dominant seasons in NBA history. I
Speaker 1: don't know if it quite cracks the top ten. That's
Speaker 1: that's where I think I would have it land one
Speaker 1: of the fifteen most dominant years in league history. I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna do the you know, go through all of them.
Speaker 1: And if we were to just say, since the ABA
Speaker 1: NBA merger. So in the last forty five years, single season,
Speaker 1: it's definitely one of the ten best, one of the
Speaker 1: ten best. It's not one of the five best, but
Speaker 1: it's one of the ten best. And it is. It's
Speaker 1: the best single season champion we've had since the Steph
Speaker 1: kde Warriors. Like, this team is better than last year's Boston.
Speaker 1: It's better than the Nuggets, it's better than the twenty
Speaker 1: two Warriors, it's better than the twenty one Bucks, it's
Speaker 1: better than the twenty Lakers, it's better than the nineteen Raptors.
Speaker 1: So it's the best team we've had in almost a decade.
Speaker 1: And it's one of the fifteen best teams ever, and
Speaker 1: it's one of the ten best teams of the modern era,
Speaker 1: so to speak. So that's where I land go ahead.
Speaker 3: If the Pacers win tonight, what type of pressure is
Speaker 3: gonna be on Okay, see in Game seven?
Speaker 1: Well, that's a that's a whole other thing. And I
Speaker 1: mean I have been and I either way, we're gonna
Speaker 1: do something of like an emergency show quick show tomorrow.
Speaker 1: I am. I I'm gonna table that question for tomorrow
Speaker 1: because I don't think it's gonna happen. But it obviously
Speaker 1: all of this comes unraveled if not only do you
Speaker 1: not win the championship, but you're up three to two
Speaker 1: in the series and you lose a Game seven at home.
Speaker 1: So that's a you know, that's a whole So all
Speaker 1: of the if the Thunder lose tonight, what's on the
Speaker 1: line for game seven? Uh, we can deal with tomorrow
Speaker 1: if they lose tonight. But it wasn't better the year
Speaker 1: for nothing, demonse, and better the year lives?
Speaker 2: Well, it does live.
Speaker 1: Well now I needed, I needed a furious fourth quarter
Speaker 1: Game four comeback, but better the Year lives. This is
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Speaker 1: speeds not available in all areas. All right, let's get
Speaker 1: to the other topics of the day before we get
Speaker 1: to the major news in one of our personal lives.
Speaker 3: But go ahead, got some juicy stuff here. So your
Speaker 3: guy Lebron take a shot at the idea of ring culture.
Speaker 3: He said, I don't know why it's discussed so much
Speaker 3: in our sport and why it's the end all, be
Speaker 3: all of everything.
Speaker 2: Do you agree with him? So?
Speaker 1: He said a lot, And I agree with some of
Speaker 1: what he said, not all of what he said. And
Speaker 1: I here is what I truly believe. I truly believe
Speaker 1: that how someone plays in the postseason and in the
Speaker 1: biggest moments should have a massively outsized impact on how
Speaker 1: we view them. Okay, I believe that, and I think
Speaker 1: that it is They're across sports but basketball in particular
Speaker 1: because the shorthand of what like where in a team
Speaker 1: context championships matter the most to least to me, is
Speaker 1: directly correlated to, or I guess indirectly correlated to how
Speaker 1: many people are on the team, how many people are
Speaker 1: on the field. And the fewer people on the field,
Speaker 1: the fewer people on the team, the more impact one
Speaker 1: person can have. Right. And so basketball because you play
Speaker 1: offense and defense, because the teams only have twelve guys. Really,
Speaker 1: because you play five on five, it's going to have
Speaker 1: more of an impact on how you're viewed well your
Speaker 1: team does. Then baseball, when there's nine guys you know,
Speaker 1: batting and a picture all that. Football it's really just
Speaker 1: about the quarterback. The quarterback's the only one that we
Speaker 1: say as an outsized impact on winning, and so you know,
Speaker 1: we judge them according to how they do in the
Speaker 1: biggest moments. So I think that is acutely important. Where
Speaker 1: I think it gets misconstrued to a degree, or where
Speaker 1: it gets warped is what do we do with the
Speaker 1: moments where a guy plays unbelievably but his team loses anyway,
Speaker 1: or the moments where a guy plays terribly or poorly
Speaker 1: or below his standard, but the team wins anyway. That's
Speaker 1: where ring culture really gets the conversation becomes a frustrating one.
Speaker 1: And by the way, while this is a lot of
Speaker 1: this applies to Lebron, almost none of it applies to Jordan,
Speaker 1: and that is where again fair is fair. You can't
Speaker 1: look at any one of Jordan's six championships and be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but you know he got carried there. No, he was
Speaker 1: consistently ex in those postseasons where they won, and he
Speaker 1: was consistently excellent in all of those finals, with the
Speaker 1: only exception maybe being the final three games against Seattle
Speaker 1: in ninety six, but they were already up three to nothing.
Speaker 1: So some guys it and there. And the flip side
Speaker 1: of that coin is you can't really look at any
Speaker 1: or at least many and maybe any of the James
Speaker 1: Harden seasons and be like, man, he did his part
Speaker 1: that whole postseason, Like maybe there's one in Houston that
Speaker 1: I can think of, but usually it's like, no, he
Speaker 1: didn't come through. So I think Lebron's frustration comes from
Speaker 1: uh number of places, and I think they're legitimate, and
Speaker 1: so I'm going to use him as an example, and
Speaker 1: then I'm going to use other guys. So when everyone
Speaker 1: thought we were going to get Lebron Kobe in the
Speaker 1: NBA finals, when the Lakers got pal and the Calves
Speaker 1: were really good, and the Calves had been to an
Speaker 1: NBA finals in seven, Lebron James played in a conference
Speaker 1: finals against the Orlando Magic where he averaged thirty nine,
Speaker 1: eight and eight. That was that was, Those were his averages.
Speaker 1: Some people consider it to be the best series he
Speaker 1: ever played. He hit a buzzer beater to win I
Speaker 1: think Game two of that series. From three, he played
Speaker 1: forty four minutes a night, averaged thirty nine points, eight rebounds,
Speaker 1: eight assists. They lost in six games. So was was
Speaker 1: that a Lebron James moment or was that a Cleveland
Speaker 1: Cavalier moment? And then to really crystallize what I think,
Speaker 1: And this is the simplest way I can put it.
Speaker 1: And I'm curious, like, demand's a your reaction to this
Speaker 1: kind of thought exercise on rings and Lebron because the
Speaker 1: Lebron rings stuff, it's really a Lebron Jordan thing and
Speaker 1: all of it, right, Like that's really what a lot
Speaker 1: of this comes down to. Does should not. Does Should
Speaker 1: Kevin Durant's life choices have any impact on who is
Speaker 1: a better basketball player between Michael Jordan and Lebron James,
Speaker 1: Like in from a logical perspective, should it should? Like,
Speaker 1: if we are debating who is better Michael Jordan or
Speaker 1: Lebron James, should we weigh into it the choices made
Speaker 1: by Kevin Durant? Like does that even make sense?
Speaker 3: I mean, I understand how somebody would make that argument.
Speaker 1: Well in at least in my opinion that it doesn't
Speaker 1: even like it. It sounds absurd to even say, like, no,
Speaker 1: we're saying who was who was better at basketball? These
Speaker 1: two people? What you know, what a third party decides
Speaker 1: to do with their life should not weigh into.
Speaker 2: It unless it directly.
Speaker 1: But it might. It might be the decide factor. It
Speaker 1: might be oddly, Kevin Durant choosing the Warriors over the
Speaker 1: Celtics might be the reason people think some people think
Speaker 1: Jordan's better than Lebron. What do I mean? What I
Speaker 1: mean is if Katie doesn't go to the Warriors, and
Speaker 1: if Lebron goes back to the Finals after pulling off
Speaker 1: the three to one upset and averages thirty four to
Speaker 1: twelve and ten, which is what he averaged in the
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen finals, and then goes back in twenty eighteen
Speaker 1: and averages thirty four, nine and ten, which is what
Speaker 1: he did in the twenty eighteen finals, and they just win.
Speaker 1: Then I don't think anyone's like, oh, then I think
Speaker 1: the probably the goat debate is over. And so that
Speaker 1: sounds kind of ham handed the way I described it.
Speaker 1: So it's like, Nick, you're acting like something that didn't
Speaker 1: happen did happen, or something that did happen didn't happen.
Speaker 1: I get that. The point I think Lebron is making
Speaker 1: is if I can have a back to back NBA
Speaker 1: Finals where I perform at the highest level I've ever
Speaker 1: performed in my career, and I came through and I
Speaker 1: was excellent, should the fact that my team was not
Speaker 1: quite good enough in the context of we were up
Speaker 1: against one of, if not the greatest team of all time.
Speaker 1: Should you then simply go back to the rings piece
Speaker 1: of it. When people talk about and and I hate
Speaker 1: that I'm doing this lately, but it's just kind of
Speaker 1: the way it has come up. When people talk about
Speaker 1: Kobe Bryant having five rings should there be the qualifier
Speaker 1: of yes, he does and he's one of the all
Speaker 1: time greats. It also should be noted that he won
Speaker 1: his first ring by playing in a series where he
Speaker 1: averaged fifteen four and four on thirty seven twenty shooting
Speaker 1: splits like does that so like? Is? Is that that's
Speaker 1: where the team accomplishment versus individual accomplishment? To me, you
Speaker 1: have to actually look at it with real nuance to it.
Speaker 1: And I think the other frustrating piece for Lebron personally
Speaker 1: is it simply did not use to be this way.
Speaker 1: And by that what I mean is the original NBA
Speaker 1: debate that old heads old old heads will still have
Speaker 1: is Wilt versus Russell, and the ring count there is
Speaker 1: eleven to two. The then biggest debate ever was Bird
Speaker 1: versus Magic, and the ring count there is five to three.
Speaker 1: There are plenty of people Laker fans who think Shack
Speaker 1: was better than Kareem, even though the ring count there
Speaker 1: is six to four. When Michael Jordan retired the first time,
Speaker 1: and he had three and Magic had five, and Bird
Speaker 1: had three and Kaream had six and Russell at eleven,
Speaker 1: the statue said the greatest there ever was the greatest
Speaker 1: there ever will be, and he was regularly called the
Speaker 1: greatest player of all time before he got one, and
Speaker 1: so it has not always been as simplistic as it
Speaker 1: has been broken down to. Where I disagree with lebron
Speaker 1: is and what I do think is fair is in
Speaker 1: the NBA, assuming you play for a long time, if
Speaker 1: you never win a championship, there is a ceiling onto
Speaker 1: how high up the pyramid you can go, just like
Speaker 1: there is for NFL quarterbacks. But the ceiling is like
Speaker 1: Dan Marino, a lot of people can to in one
Speaker 1: of the five greatest quarterbacks ever. There is like who
Speaker 1: is the greatest player in NBA history without a ring?
Speaker 1: Is it Barkley? Is it Malone? Is it Elgin Baylor?
Speaker 1: Is it James Harden?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: Who is it? Whoever it is? It's they are. They're
Speaker 1: outside your top five, they're outside your top ten, They're
Speaker 1: probably outside your top fifteen. I think that's fair that
Speaker 1: you couldn't have just been unlucky for fifteen years if
Speaker 1: you were a legend. But I also think that that
Speaker 1: they're like Barkley is an interesting one because Charles Barkley
Speaker 1: did run into Michael Jordan and three straight postseasons for him.
Speaker 1: He ran into him when he was with the Sixers
Speaker 1: in ninety he ran into him when he was with
Speaker 1: the Sixers in ninety one, and then he ran into
Speaker 1: him in the NBA Finals in ninety three. And there's
Speaker 1: no shame that you couldn't beat prime Michael Jordan. But
Speaker 1: then the next year when you have a fair fight
Speaker 1: against Houston in the when Jordan's gone, and not only
Speaker 1: does it go seven, and you kind of are the
Speaker 1: guy that left your man for the you know, the
Speaker 1: disc Oh, that was a different series when he left
Speaker 1: his man for the three. My apologies, but in that
Speaker 1: series against Houston, your teammate didn't let you down. Kevin Johnson,
Speaker 1: he's really good and you were really good twenty three,
Speaker 1: thirteen and four, but a team was better twenty nine,
Speaker 1: fourteen and five and four blocks a game. Like so
Speaker 1: it's not to me just like we're if you put
Speaker 1: a Teme above Barkley, it's not flatly that well a
Speaker 1: Teme has two rings and Barkley as zero. It's that
Speaker 1: in root to both of a Tem's rings, he played
Speaker 1: your team with similar quality supporting casts and was considerably
Speaker 1: better than you. And so like that part of it.
Speaker 1: That's the nuance that I think gets lost at times.
Speaker 1: And I think that there are a lot of factors here.
Speaker 1: And so like when Lebron says, don't tell me Iverson
Speaker 1: wasn't a great player or Steve Nash wasn't a great
Speaker 1: player because they didn't win a ring. Nobody is saying
Speaker 1: they weren't great players. But for those guys, what stemied
Speaker 1: them from winning rings often was a greater player not
Speaker 1: only beat them, but outplayed them in a series. And
Speaker 1: where it gets tricky is when you have great players.
Speaker 1: And this is very rare, but it happens great players
Speaker 1: who don't play well in a series, but their team
Speaker 1: wins anyway. And then there is the thing that has
Speaker 1: happened fairly often in NBA history, which is a legendary player,
Speaker 1: the Jerry West corollary, which I'll bring them up for
Speaker 1: the thirtieth straight podcast, that a guy is just all
Speaker 1: time great and consistently is on the short end of
Speaker 1: the stick in a playoff series, even though he individually
Speaker 1: is spectacular when his team is not good enough and
Speaker 1: so and West is probably and I'll leave it at this,
Speaker 1: and we're going way too long. I apologize but whenever
Speaker 1: I have a chance talk Jerry West, I have to
Speaker 1: Jerry West. Nineteen sixty two NBA Finals losing seven to Boston,
Speaker 1: he averages thirty one and five. Nineteen sixty three NBA
Speaker 1: Finals loses in six to Boston. He averages thirty and seven.
Speaker 1: Nineteen sixty five NBA Finals, losing five to Boston, he
Speaker 1: averages thirty four and six. Nineteen sixty six NBA Finals
Speaker 1: loses in seven to Boston. He average just thirty four
Speaker 1: and six. Nineteen sixty eight NBA Finals loses in six
Speaker 1: to Boston. He averages thirty one and six. Nineteen sixty
Speaker 1: nine NBA Finals loses in seven to Boston. He averages
Speaker 1: thirty eight, five and seven. Like when if you're Jerry West,
Speaker 1: you're damn right. Those those rings are team accomplishments, and
Speaker 1: the Celtics were an all time great team, and I
Speaker 1: just kept fucking losing to him, and so like that
Speaker 1: is to me now if you looked at it, like
Speaker 1: and I'll look through for West. If there's an instance
Speaker 1: of this, I don't really think there is, but well
Speaker 1: here's one old Jerry West. NBA Finals nineteen seventy three
Speaker 1: loses to the Nick averages twenty one to three. It's like,
Speaker 1: oh okay, now he's thirty four, which that time's old.
Speaker 1: But like they were the dif Champs. Part of the problem, right, right,
Speaker 1: he wasn't he wasn't good enough? Right? The issue is
Speaker 1: what about when I'm good enough in every way possible
Speaker 1: and you can't, we can't win. That's the nuance to it.
Speaker 1: All Right, We're gonna have to very quickly do the
Speaker 1: Caitlin Clark thing. I'm gonna be late for work myself
Speaker 1: to get to the major news.
Speaker 2: Things are getting spicy in the WNBA.
Speaker 3: They were they were trying to be Kayln Clark ub
Speaker 3: scratching her eye got very chippy.
Speaker 2: You always say that.
Speaker 3: People take the wrong stance when this stuff happens. What's
Speaker 3: the correct take on this whole situation going on in
Speaker 3: the Wnbakaitln Clark.
Speaker 1: Listen, here's the very short version, and I should have
Speaker 1: one a longer version of this. This is probably bad
Speaker 1: for our podcast analytics because there is nothing that social
Speaker 1: and algorithms like more than Caitlyn Clark content. And now
Speaker 1: I don't have time for it, So maybe I can
Speaker 1: do it more, you know, tomorrow or next week, probably
Speaker 1: next week we can dig in more. The short version
Speaker 1: is this, this is all going according to plan. This
Speaker 1: is ideal. Caitlyn Clark is holding up her end by
Speaker 1: being awesome and by being a trash talking jerk on
Speaker 1: the court. Love it. Her teammates are holding up their
Speaker 1: end by having her back. The other players in the
Speaker 1: league are holding up their end by not liking her. Perfect.
Speaker 1: Couldn't have written a better script. It is great for interest,
Speaker 1: it is great for rivalries. Thank god this one involved
Speaker 1: all white girls, so we didn't have to deal with
Speaker 1: any of the like, oh my goodness, is she being
Speaker 1: targeted by the scary black girls in the NBA? All
Speaker 1: that just horrible racist bullshit. And instead it's like, Nope,
Speaker 1: Caitlyn is talking trash to this girl. This girl's hard
Speaker 1: fouling her. Her teammates, Sophie Cunningham, Missouri's own who got
Speaker 1: a black belt in taekwondo at the age of six.
Speaker 1: I looked it up. That is true. University of Missouri
Speaker 1: verified it. She's like, I will, I will f you
Speaker 1: guys up. All of it's great, and Caitlyn's a killer,
Speaker 1: a killer, and that team can win. That team absolutely,
Speaker 1: She's second league, in points, second league, in assists. You
Speaker 1: want her to have an edge. You want the other
Speaker 1: players to not like her. You want her to walk
Speaker 1: around trash talking, and you like you want people. Here's
Speaker 1: what we need. We need some people to dislike Caitlyn
Speaker 1: Clark because of the basketball and that's gonna come now.
Speaker 1: Like we need people who be like, she talks too
Speaker 1: much trash she you know, she is very dramatic when
Speaker 1: she gets pushed. She also, you know, will kind of
Speaker 1: not kind of she will taunt you and then she
Speaker 1: will hit thirty five footers and scream about it. That's great.
Speaker 3: Knows that she's probably untouchable. Like what do you mean,
Speaker 3: I mean she's is she not the best player in
Speaker 3: the WNBA right now?
Speaker 1: Like what do you mean by untouchable?
Speaker 3: Like it's just like she's to know that you are
Speaker 3: that guy or that girl at this time, this early
Speaker 3: in your career, just exactly right.
Speaker 1: Yes, And I don't know. Listen, the FISA Colier might
Speaker 1: be the best player in the league. There's a few
Speaker 1: other people, but she is certainly the shortest of the list,
Speaker 1: and she's certainly one of the definitely one of the
Speaker 1: five best, probably one of the three best and maybe
Speaker 1: the best. And but this the pearl clutching of oh
Speaker 1: that she could have gotten really hurt. It's sports, it's sports.
Speaker 1: She'll be fine, Like, none of these are the The
Speaker 1: only thing that happened that can happen in basketball that
Speaker 1: really worries you is somebody like soaring in the air
Speaker 1: and they get undercut. That's not really that big of
Speaker 1: a concern in the WNBA because the game's played beneath
Speaker 1: the rim. I enter like there can be horrific elbows,
Speaker 1: I guess, but that's not really what we're talking about.
Speaker 1: None of this stuff is going to result in major injury, Like,
Speaker 1: what are we talking about? And so nobody needs to
Speaker 1: freak out. It's great for Caitlin, it's great for the league.
Speaker 1: It's you couldn't write a better script. And I'm glad
Speaker 1: she's back. I'm glad she's kicking ass. I'm glad she
Speaker 1: is embracing maybe being a bit of a villain. All
Speaker 1: that ten out of ten, No notes, if we could
Speaker 1: maybe possibly get the biggest alleged Caitlin Clark fans and
Speaker 1: the biggest alleged Angel Reese fans who are actually just
Speaker 1: using those two people, as you know, racial proxy wars
Speaker 1: on each other. If we could somehow create a social
Speaker 1: media network and just only let them in and not
Speaker 1: let anyone else in, and just let them argue amongst
Speaker 1: themselves there, that would be great. But aside from that,
Speaker 1: I'm thrilled with it, and it makes the summer way
Speaker 1: more interesting. All right, let me give a little background here,
Speaker 1: So Demonse and I hope this. I hope you take
Speaker 1: this the way I intend it. Demanse probably should have
Speaker 1: is the wrong word. But if you play out Demonse's
Speaker 1: life one hundred times, some of those times he ends
Speaker 1: up being a veterinarian. I believe that like that was
Speaker 1: that was a path that like I think you had
Speaker 1: a real you have such a passion for animals, and
Speaker 1: like we're like as a little kid into it. I
Speaker 1: probably didn't do a good enough job pushing you on it. Also,
Speaker 1: it is a ton of school, and it's really hard,
Speaker 1: Like it's one of the hardest things there is. And
Speaker 1: I always kind of like felt bad or not bad,
Speaker 1: but it's like, ah, like the I again, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: make this a little more dramatic than it needs to.
Speaker 1: But then it's like, uh, you know, I I was
Speaker 1: barely know. I was very young when I became Demand's dad,
Speaker 1: and so I kind of i'd become a better parent
Speaker 1: for I was a better parent for Doora than I
Speaker 1: was for you. And I'm probably a better parent for
Speaker 1: Deanna than I was for Doora, because you just learn,
Speaker 1: you know, you learn, and you and you get older
Speaker 1: and you know all of this, right, there is an
Speaker 1: element of it. The oldest kid usually gets away with
Speaker 1: the most, but also as the most we're just guessing
Speaker 1: parenting type of stuff, and so I sometimes look at
Speaker 1: the fact that I'm like, oh, man, like that your
Speaker 1: sister's passions. I really kind of like tried to incubate
Speaker 1: and yours with animals. I didn't do as good of
Speaker 1: a job. But despite that, in my opinion, what is
Speaker 1: really really cool is you found a work around which was, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be involved with animals somehow. I've always loved snakes,
Speaker 1: and so I am. You know, you owned a snake
Speaker 1: when we were when we lived in Houston, and then
Speaker 1: when you moved out to La you kind of you
Speaker 1: got into the snake business. And so I will then
Speaker 1: kind of, you know, allow you to take it from here.
Speaker 1: On what the last few years of the snake business
Speaker 1: for you, what it has meant and what it has been.
Speaker 1: And then we get to a big culmination.
Speaker 2: We go ahead. Yeah, I mean it's it's been pretty crazy.
Speaker 3: I probably got a snake before I got a couch
Speaker 3: moving out here, but I got I was trying for
Speaker 3: a while, was breeding these snakes. Seemed like nothing was
Speaker 3: going to come of it. And she was always watching
Speaker 3: the YouTube, studying up on the knowledge, and you know,
Speaker 3: been pairing the male with the female for like the
Speaker 3: last eight months or so, and kept checking the thing.
Speaker 3: She was showing the pregnancy signs, doing all the stuff,
Speaker 3: wrapping on the water bowl, the whole nine and just
Speaker 3: nothing was coming. I didn't even notice really a growth,
Speaker 3: couldn't tell their eggs in there. Yesterday, I go up there,
Speaker 3: I open up this thing, open up the takeoff her
Speaker 3: a little her high, and she's wrapped around the eggs.
Speaker 3: I sent it to the What's Right group chat immediately
Speaker 3: and called yeah now, and she's very, very upset. As
Speaker 3: soon as she got separated from the eggs, though she
Speaker 3: was she was completely back to normal.
Speaker 2: Honestly, it felt a little bad, but so separate.
Speaker 1: So again, you separated her from the eggs because the
Speaker 1: best way for the eggs survives to put them in incubator.
Speaker 3: It's like a sixty percent chance that she's able to,
Speaker 3: you know, incubate those successfully. It's about ninety percent with
Speaker 3: the incubator. You can just kind of give it better odds.
Speaker 3: And I didn't remove the eggs or the snake from
Speaker 3: the eggs. I actually took them up to the pet
Speaker 3: store that I always go to Alan's Pet Center out there,
Speaker 3: and oh, yeah.
Speaker 1: Let's give them. They've been awesome to you, so let's
Speaker 1: just go ahead unpaid endorsement.
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. They've always been super nice to me.
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm probably one of their more loyal
Speaker 3: custom just because the amount of snakes that I have
Speaker 3: and how often it is that I.
Speaker 2: Need to go. But they always hold it down.
Speaker 3: And they came there, they took the snake off the eggs,
Speaker 3: they put the eggs in a bucket, and they personally
Speaker 3: incubated them for me.
Speaker 2: So it was this is Allen's.
Speaker 1: Say the name of the place, it's Allen's.
Speaker 3: With an A though it's a L L A N
Speaker 3: S Pet center. They've got one on Pico and They've
Speaker 3: also got another one located in East l A.
Speaker 2: I always go to the one in Western And.
Speaker 1: Who's the guy who helps you?
Speaker 2: That is Drew. It's Drew, that's his name. Honestly, forget.
Speaker 1: I didn't want. I didn't want to put you on
Speaker 1: the spot because I didn't know if you didn't want
Speaker 1: to say, but uh no, but so but this is
Speaker 1: so can I give a little more background here? So
Speaker 1: this has been like fulfilling but also expensive and frustrating.
Speaker 1: And they're been more than more than a time or
Speaker 1: two where you have wondered should I should I go
Speaker 1: back to, you know, owning one snake that I like
Speaker 1: as a pet, but not you know, but abandoning it, right,
Speaker 1: Like that's fair to say that you're like the because
Speaker 1: the and you're trying to do this, you know, on
Speaker 1: the fly or on your own and so now and
Speaker 1: so and again I don't know. I actually also oddly
Speaker 1: owned a ball python when I was growing up, and
Speaker 1: then you wanted a ball python when you were growing up,
Speaker 1: But we never had talked, like you didn't know that.
Speaker 3: I had had one, and it was it was is crazy.
Speaker 3: I didn't know up until like three years ago.
Speaker 1: But uh, the the special thing is like the different
Speaker 1: morphs are like in theory, we won't see until these
Speaker 1: eggs are born. But in theory you could have some
Speaker 1: really special, one of a kind, one of a kind snakes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mixed a three gene snake to a five
Speaker 3: gene snake, So I mean there's just a lot of
Speaker 3: possible combinations. It gets pretty high on high and it
Speaker 3: could be pretty low. But it means just the fact
Speaker 3: that I was able to do it, it is very fulfilling,
Speaker 3: like it worked out.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm now going to maybe embarrass you, but
Speaker 1: it's worth it. Demanse told me when he first started this,
Speaker 1: when he actually said, okay, I've got the female or
Speaker 1: I'm getting the male or whatever it was. When you
Speaker 1: were first doing the breathing, you said you were like,
Speaker 1: if this actually happens and one of these snakes gets pregnant,
Speaker 1: lays eggs, and the eggs hatch, You're like, I think
Speaker 1: I'll cry. And I thought it was such like a
Speaker 1: cool thing. I know, sorry for embarrassing you. I apologize,
Speaker 1: but it's a cool thing. And here's the other thing, man, like,
Speaker 1: uh and I listen. If people have tuned out orever.
Speaker 1: It's fine. I don't care the but this is, this
Speaker 1: is part of the reason I do this show the
Speaker 1: way we do this show. Because Son's on the West coast,
Speaker 1: I'm on the East coast. He's busy. I'm too busy.
Speaker 1: And so there's like these points of connection, and I
Speaker 1: think the audience gets it.
Speaker 6: But it's so so cool to just teach yourself something
Speaker 6: like you didn't go the school route you went.
Speaker 1: I've got to learn it on my own and through
Speaker 1: trial and error. And listen, we again, this might just
Speaker 1: be one phase of the trial and error, like we'll see,
Speaker 1: but whether there's proutal concept that you can do it
Speaker 1: now and you in theory, and this is also kind
Speaker 1: of where you're supposed to be in my opinion, in
Speaker 1: your mid twenties, you now kind of and this is
Speaker 1: you know, you know allah your mother. You kind of
Speaker 1: now are working three jobs. A Fox job for real,
Speaker 1: your Fox job which pays you. You have the podcast,
Speaker 1: which pays you. And you have your side thing, which
Speaker 1: up to this point has just sapped money generated from
Speaker 1: your Fox job in this but now in theory, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, can be its own sustaining profitable thing,
Speaker 1: and it's something you love, so I think it's great.
Speaker 1: So I wanted to do this for three reasons. One
Speaker 1: is I wanted to celebrate that Demonse had done this.
Speaker 1: The other one is, even though that Demonze didn't ask
Speaker 1: to do this, I know how much those people at
Speaker 1: Alan's Pet Center have you know, been nice to you
Speaker 1: and kind of given you advice or you know, been
Speaker 1: cool to you. So I wanted to give them a
Speaker 1: shout out. They're not given the Demonsig's bought all this stuff.
Speaker 1: This is not giving them free stuff, but they've been
Speaker 1: really nice, so I want to give them a shout out.
Speaker 1: And the third reason was this, if there are people
Speaker 1: out there that are actually oddly snake people and you know,
Speaker 1: have pointers or tips or whatever tms on Twitter or
Speaker 1: Open or Instagram or whatever, like, there's got to be
Speaker 1: a few people listening that are like, oh, I oddly
Speaker 1: have a you know, I'm a snake guy too, So
Speaker 1: you know, hit Demon's up. All right, keep me posted
Speaker 1: on this, and uh, keep everyone posted on it. Uh.
Speaker 1: Great job Blue Up, great job Volume, great job DraftKings,
Speaker 1: great job boost Mobile. See if Bet of the Year
Speaker 1: comes through tonight and subscribe on YouTube iTunes, Spotify, and
Speaker 1: subscribe to the First Things First Channel because we needed
Speaker 1: a million or I'm gonna be in a lot of trouble.
Speaker 1: Talk to you guys all soon. What's right,