WEBVTT - Ep. 2: The Thing About Owl Hooters 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:06.520 M Correlation does not equal causation. So just because you 0:00:06.559 --> 0:00:10.400 can ol hoot turkey call, does not mean that that 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:14.000 causes you to be a good hunter. If you go 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:16.520 out with a guy turkey hunting and he rears back 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:18.759 and al hoots with his mouth or crow calls with 0:00:18.840 --> 0:00:21.119 his mouth, what does that tell you about that guy? 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:23.400 He's he's authentic. He's a real hunter, right, He's a 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:27.720 real deal. On this episode of the Bear Grease Podcast, 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:32.360 we're gonna explore a communication technique is old is mankind 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:37.440 using the voice to mimic animal sounds. I'm trying to 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:42.040 understand why humans do this, how it's advantageous for hunting, 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:47.279 and how natural voice calling has embedded itself into our culture. 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:50.240 We're gonna talk to the first person I ever heard 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:53.880 al hoot with their mouth, a PhD who's an expert 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:58.360 on understanding correlations, an expert on the human voice, and 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:02.160 we're gonna have a conversation with the world's most decorated 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:06.600 natural voice turkey caller who's called turkeys on The David 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:15.720 Letterman Show and The Tonight Show. Gonna be a fun ride. Oh, 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:20.400 you are a very effective al hooter. From a competitive standpoint, 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:32.480 get off stage. My name is Clay Nukelem and this 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:36.600 is the Bear Grease Podcast, where we'll explore things forgotten 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:41.040 but relevant, search for insight and unlikely places, and where 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:44.880 we'll tell the story of Americans who lived their lives 0:01:45.000 --> 0:01:56.640 close to the land. Mimicking animal sounds to communicate with 0:01:56.720 --> 0:01:59.840 the natural world is as old as the hunt, and 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:09.720 hunting is as old as mankind. Part of human uniqueness 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:13.280 as compared to other animals is our ability to use 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:18.240 our brains to conjure extremely varied strategies to acquire food. 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:21.560 A small part of the equation is our ability to 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:25.040 mimic animal sound, and there are many reasons why we 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:30.760 do this. Humans mimic owls, turkeys, crows, squirrels, quail, white 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:35.280 tail deer, coyotes, and even hawks. These sounds are used 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:39.280 in multiple applications. One would be to communicate with other 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:43.519 humans in incognito ways so that other animals aren't alerted 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:46.560 to human presence. You know, like a human making some 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:49.880 type of bird call to let his partners know that 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:54.160 he's made it to a certain location. Secondly, human hunters 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:57.920 mimic the sounds made by the animals they're hunting and 0:02:58.000 --> 0:03:01.400 hopes of drawing them into stry king distance. These are 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:06.920 typically sexually based calls or territorial calls. Elk and turkey 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:11.079 would be great examples of this. Thirdly, there are relationships 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:16.639 between animals of different species that evoke predictable responses when 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:20.160 the call of the other is made. The best example 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:23.200 of this would be shocked goblin of turkey. This is 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:28.120 when a breeding crazed male turkey will gobble just about 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:34.200 any loud sound in the woods, including owl's, woodpeckers, and crows, 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:37.760 even though his breeding has nothing to do with those animals. 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:42.640 Another example of this would be the calm feeding sounds 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:46.320 of one species could indicate to other animals of a 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:50.240 different species that everything in that section of the woods 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:53.560 is okay. Basically, it would be like saying there are 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:57.200 no predators over here because I'm calm and relaxed. A 0:03:57.240 --> 0:04:00.000 good example of this would be like a hen turkey 0:03:59.840 --> 0:04:04.960 making content feeding calls that would calm an approaching theary. 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:11.680 I'll never forget the first time I heard someone hoot 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:16.400 like a barred owl. You're about to meet my friend 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:20.960 Josh Lunsford. Josh is a lanky cowboy type with a 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:24.039 firm handshake and a strong I gate. But he's a 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:28.040 corporate executive in the communication business and he's a veteran 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:32.479 turkey hunter in Woodsman. It may sound funny, but the 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:35.640 first time I heard Josh al hoot with his mouth, 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:39.599 it impacted me. I didn't know people could do that, 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:46.159 and I never forgot it. So Josh, me and you 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:50.520 were we grew up together. But the first time we 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:53.200 ever went hunting together was when I was in college 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:58.080 and I remember telling one of our mutual friends. I 0:04:58.160 --> 0:04:59.960 was like, man, I'm going turkey hunting in the morning, 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:02.920 and he said, well, I can't go, but Josh is going. 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:05.160 And so I called you and we said, hey, well 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:07.039 let's go together. And so we went to a place 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:09.640 that both of us knew, some public land. We walked 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:12.960 I presumably we rode together in a truck. This was 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:16.320 twenty years ago. So we we get out. We walked 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:18.200 back in there before daylight. It was a place with 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:20.400 a lot of birds. At the time. I had only 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:22.479 turkey hut with my dad my whole life, never hunt 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:24.800 it with another turkey hunter. And I remember it got 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:27.520 just about daylight, I mean just you know, the birds 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:30.760 started chirping, and uh, you didn't say anything to me. 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:33.000 You we were knelt down on the ground and you 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:37.280 stood up and just oh, you know, you let out 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:41.960 a big ol hoot. And I remember being so impressed. 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:45.880 I was just like, holy moley, I'd never heard anybody 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:48.480 out hoot with their mouth and you didn't think anything 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:51.440 of you al hoot and a turkey gobbled way over 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:53.760 on the ridge and we chased them around. Would never 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:55.720 kill one that day. So I want to hear your 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:57.880 ol hoot to see if I remember it like I 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:01.120 remember it that day absolutely so um. And you know, 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:04.039 and just in just one note, right, mutual friends, I 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:07.080 had learned it from them. So you hunted with uh 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:10.360 with our friends Scott Ny, that's right. Did they ever 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:12.920 formally teach you or did they? They were just like 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:14.919 you know, it's one of those things where you're hunting 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:18.000 with people and you witness them doing something and you 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:19.400 want to get better at it and you want to 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:20.880 use it the way they did. You know, I grew 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:23.000 up using it to find someone in the woods, not 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:26.400 actually use it as a location call. And so that 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:28.360 was how I learned to use it as a locator calling. 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:31.040 How it could be so instrumental into making you more 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:34.320 successful turkey hunting. Right, Um, yeah, I absolutely do it 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:36.040 for you. Um, you can probably do it as good 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:47.120 as I can these days. Um. But oh it sounds 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:50.359 just like I remember it. That's good. If you go 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:52.840 out with a guy turkey hunting and he rears back 0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:55.120 and our hoots with his mouth or crow calls with 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:57.400 his mouth, what does that tell you about that guy? 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:02.080 He's taking the time to test and being better at 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:05.600 the sport, Right, He's not. He's not just just purchased 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:08.680 his way into the sport by buying all the gadgets. Right, 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:11.920 He's He's authentic, he's a he's a real Um, he's 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:13.800 a real hunter. Right, He's a real deal, you know. 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:15.600 And and what I'll tell you is, yeah, has it 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:17.880 made me more successful in a lot of different ways? 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:19.960 Clay And a simple fact that I don't have to 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:22.120 carry as much stuff I don't. I don't own an 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:25.040 al hoot, I don't own a crow call, I don't 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:27.320 own a box call. I own a couple. I own 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:29.480 a couple of die forragm calls and a slate call. 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:32.720 Let me ask you this, do you ever al hoot? 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:36.040 Not in the turkey situation. Would anything happen in this 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:39.040 living room where Josh Lunsford without hood? Uh? Yeah, when 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:44.680 the hogs win, that's it. That's it. He's talking about 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:52.240 the Arkansas razorbacks. I'm sure you've heard of him. As 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:56.560 intriguing as the social communication mechanisms of the natural world 0:07:56.680 --> 0:08:00.760 are maybe even more interested in something quite it's strange 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:04.000 that I've taken note of in Southern culture, and maybe 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:07.640 it's other places. I can't say for sure, but it's this. 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:11.560 There's a lot of street cred and social status that 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:15.800 comes with being a hunter that can make good natural 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:20.400 voiced calls. Why people that can mimic the hoot of 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:25.160 a barred owl are usually good woodsman. Let me take 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:28.560 it a step further, they're usually could turkey hunters. To 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:30.760 a hunter, this may seem like a no brainer, but 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:33.880 if you think about it, it's kind of strange. You see, 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:38.400 A barred owl is a nocturnal avian predator, usually not 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:41.800 weighing more than five pounds. It makes its living off 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:44.920 a small rodents. A wild turkey is a large bird 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:47.440 waring at the thirty pounds that spends the majority of 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:51.840 its life walking around eating insects, nuts, and green brows 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:55.160 off the ground. The only things these animals have in 0:08:55.240 --> 0:08:57.520 common is they got a pair of wings and they 0:08:57.600 --> 0:09:02.840 roughly inhabit the same geographic is But I will suggest 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:06.720 that if you were looking for a sure fire and 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:10.480 quick way to find a good turkey hunter, you could 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:16.480 start by asking to hear their owl hoot. M However, 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:19.360 the water gets really muddy right here, and even more 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:23.480 complex because this is a dynamic correlation that I'm suggesting, 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:27.280 because it is possible to be a good turkey hunter 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:31.000 and not be able to owl hoot. Wait a minute, 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:34.720 I'm getting confused. You know what we need? We need 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:39.600 somebody that knows about correlations to explain what this means. 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:45.160 Dr Malachi Nichols is an economist and he's the director 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:50.240 of evaluation and data quality for an education focused nonprofit. 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:58.439 Maybe he can help us sort this out. Dr Nichols, 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:03.960 I am trying to under d stand correlations because it's 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:07.920 very clear to me that I make correlations all the time. 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:13.520 I don't fully understand the mechanisms of them, but I 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:17.960 find them to be like, really predictable. So help me 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:23.640 understand the connection that I very clearly see between people 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:27.040 that can our hoot very well with their mouth and 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:32.200 their ability to be good woodsman. What what's the connection 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:34.560 that I'm seeing there? You know, I would I would 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:37.720 take it one step back and say, as a researcher, like, 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:40.960 this is a social science question, right, It's just the 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:44.319 study of human behavior. The statistical tool that we use 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:47.960 is correlations, and and simply put a correlation, it's just 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:52.640 quantifying the strength and the direction of a relationship between 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:56.000 two things. So if a moves, how does be moved? 0:10:56.080 --> 0:11:00.200 So if they're weak correlations and strong correlations, how do 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:02.200 I tell the difference? And is there a is there 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:05.760 a terminology that would describe a correlation that that isn't 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:08.560 a legit correlation? And when I think of one that 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:12.240 is And I'm thinking about spurits correlations and spurious correlations. 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:16.320 Are are correlations that appear statistically to be related, but 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:19.319 if you look at the context, there's no relations. What's 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:22.480 an example. What's a good example of a spurious correlation? 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:24.760 So I'm looking I'm thinking about data in the eighties 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:29.319 and nineties of an increased use of people wearing seatbelts 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:34.320 was associated or related to a decrease in astronauts dying 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:38.160 in space right, So statistically it was a true statement, 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:40.679 but really there was no connection between the two, no 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:44.880 connection at all. That's the power and also the hardship 0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:49.000 of statistics and data. So in my situation where I'm 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:51.760 seeing a correlation between a person's ability to out hoot 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:56.040 or mimic natural sounds and then they're jumping to their 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:59.840 general overall ability to be an effective hunter, I see 0:11:59.880 --> 0:12:04.960 the strong correlation. Okay, but inside the same situation, you 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:08.679 don't have to be an ol hooter to be a 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:11.560 good hunter. What what does that mean? Like if if 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:14.680 it's there's for sure correlation, but it doesn't always have 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:17.959 to be. And what you're describing is that it's a 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:21.680 something that we say in our world is that correlation 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:25.040 does not equal causation. So just because you can ol 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:29.000 hoot a turkey call does not mean that that causes 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:32.600 you to be a good hunter. It doesn't. It's not caused. 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:35.040 It's just it happens to have a relationship. And so 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:37.800 therefore you have outliers. Therefore you have people who are 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:41.079 good hunters that can't turkey call or can't ol hoot, 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:44.000 And it just says this is a correlation, there's a relationship, 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:47.360 but there's other factors that cause you to be a 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:50.640 good hunter. Do we use correlations constantly and don't even 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:54.199 realize it? Oh yeah, it's association. It's it's again going 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:57.640 back to the aspect. This is a social science question, right, 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:00.640 the study of human behavior, and so we're always as 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:04.040 human beings trying to make connections. It's really like a 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:07.360 short cut, like if I hear you ol hoot, you 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:09.640 don't have to tell me your story. I know a 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:11.640 lot of them, So it's like a it's like a 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:15.920 social shortcut if there were I want you to guess 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:18.320 for me. So if I had ten people lined up 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:20.520 in a line and I went through the line in 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:22.960 a blind test and had them ol hoot, and then 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:27.200 I made judgments on their experience and hunting, do you 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:30.120 have any predictions on how often I would be right? 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:38.480 Probably of the time, I think, Dr Milka Nichols. Okay, 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:42.800 last thing here, do you do you know the cadence 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:45.120 of a bard owl? Who? I have no idea? Okay, 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:47.000 I'm gonna do it for you, and then I want 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:49.839 to hear you. I want to hear your bart out here. Okay, 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:56.080 So this is the hoot of a bard owl. Oh there, 0:13:56.559 --> 0:14:00.360 it's a it's a who cooks for you, who books 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:10.840 for you. All. You may not be in experienced hunt, 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:14.160 but you're head at that direction. Let me get there therection. 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:20.560 Now that we've got all that sorted out, I want 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:23.080 to introduce you to some of the voices in my 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:29.120 world that all fit the correlation that I've so strongly identified. 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:34.320 I don't ever remember not knowing Steve Phillips. He's a 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:38.160 good friend of my dad's and families, and he's always 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:40.880 had an incredible knack for using his voice to mimic 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:45.520 animal sounds. The guy is simply gifted, and wouldn't you 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:52.600 know it, he's a heck of a woodsman too. When 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:55.680 did you start mouth calling just using your natural voice? 0:14:56.080 --> 0:14:59.520 I started mouth calling using my natural voice probably about 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:03.120 seventy six or seventy seven. I didn't start turkey hunting 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:06.560 until the late eighties. But Kathy and I lived out 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:09.120 across the street from a guy that was like old 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:11.840 McDonald's farm. I mean, he had every kind of animal, 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:14.480 and he even had wild turkey, had one gobler, and 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:17.120 he had like four hens. And so I'd sit out 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:19.640 on the lawn chair out on the front yard, and 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:22.280 I'd listened to them hens, and I would listen to 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:24.480 him and he had gobble, and listen to him. So 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:28.920 I started practicing mimicking those hens and the calls that 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:33.440 they would make to make him. God, yeah, I never 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:36.080 put a diaphragm any kind of slate call. Didn't know 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:38.560 what they were, didn't turkey hunt. So I just started 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:40.880 messing around, and so I got to where I could 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:43.880 walk out on the front yard any morning and call 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:47.360 and he had gobble. Then in about the late eighties, 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:49.600 I got asked by a guy who asked me if 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:51.400 I want to go turkey hunt? And I said, well, 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:53.640 you know, I don't know how he's turkey hunting. What 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:54.800 do you do? And he's, well, you need to get 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:57.160 a diaphragm call. And I said, well, I'll go. I 0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:00.280 can call him with my mouth, and he is cured 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:04.040 me I probably couldn't. So he took before daylight and 0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:06.760 he turned me out and he said that he knew 0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:09.120 there was some turkeys in there, and he actually told 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:10.840 me what I needed to do. You know, he said, 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:13.120 pulling on top the mountain, listened to you here one, 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:14.920 and try to get as close to it as you can. 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:18.320 And and then make your call. I said, okay. So 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:21.840 we went got on the mountain, heard the turkey gobble. 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:25.280 I got in what I thought was rather close, made 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:28.920 my mouth call. He answered me. I just sit there 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:30.800 a little bit, and before I knew it, he gobbled 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:33.280 right below me. I called him again, and here he 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:36.480 came in. I shot him and killed him. Went back 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:38.800 to the truck within probably an hour and a half, 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:41.960 and I thought, you know, there's nothing to this turkey hun. 0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:46.320 Little did I know there was a lot to turkey hunt. 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:49.560 Andy Brown, who's a good friend of yours. He taught 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:52.280 me everything I know about turryn He taught me, you 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:54.760 know what to do, when to do, and so I 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:57.800 took it to the next level. I practiced all the time, 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:00.720 learning how to call. Let's hear you calls. Yeah, I 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:05.240 usually use two different locator calls. Early morning is the alcohol. 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:07.760 We'll we'll do an alcohol when the first get out, 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:10.600 right right before daylight, you know, while it's still dark. 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:20.000 I'll usually get out and all and then you can 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:23.000 also sometimes darn if you get two or three hours. 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:25.040 I know you've heard two or three hours come in, 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:28.000 and that really gets a turkey really fired. Up you can, 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:35.280 and that will get them really to get them laughing. 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:38.399 And then later on, you know, in the morning or 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:40.440 something near in the day, I use a crow call, 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:42.800 and so I learned how to make a crow call 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:55.320 with just my mouth, not a crow calls. That sounds good, man, 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:57.159 I bet you can call a crow in right now, 0:17:57.280 --> 0:18:01.800 we'll probably okay, now, what I know you for? Well, 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:05.600 I know you're for your crow calling. I'll call them 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:13.320 hit him again. It's crows lit in the tree about 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:15.760 fifty shotgun range from us. If you've got a turkey 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:19.320 choke on, I wish you'd call all right, let me 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:22.000 hear your your turkey call. Okay, as you will know 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:24.879 you know, your your regular yelp call. That's what I 0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:27.840 used the most. But when the turkey gets in close, 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:30.560 you know what do you usually here? When turkeys get 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:32.960 in if hands are in they're not calling real loud. 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:35.960 They're doing more of a purring and just talking. And 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:47.840 I will hit him with and then I'll slow down 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:49.560 a little bit when they get in closer. And all 0:18:49.600 --> 0:19:02.040 this that sounds really good, sounds really good. Most people 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:04.880 can't call that good with a diaphragm. Okay, here's here's 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:09.119 my question for you. Do you see a correlation between 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:12.720 people that can natural voice call and people that are 0:19:13.040 --> 0:19:16.320 really good woodsman? Yes, I do. Let me tell you this. 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:19.159 I think there's two kinds of turkey hunters. There's a 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:22.800 caller and then there's a turkey killer. And I consider 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:26.159 myself a turkey killer. I'm not the best caller in 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:29.520 the woods. You've got guys that go to these contests, 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:33.320 and I mean they're really good. I think personally that 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:38.120 the call is about maybe, but I think the set 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:40.399 up in location and how you set up on a 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:43.199 turkey determines whether you're gonna kill that turkey or not. 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:46.280 To me, I've always said that somebody that can call 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:48.080 with her voice has a lot of street cred in 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:51.760 my book, so you got some street cred, man, show me, 0:19:51.840 --> 0:20:03.120 show me your squirrel bark that's good trying to call 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:15.439 us crows? And I heard you call while ago there 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:21.080 was one that's awesome. Do you ever use a OL 0:20:21.160 --> 0:20:25.040 hoot or anything for something other than a functional turkey locator? 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:29.040 Hunters as group of hunters, as you know, uh, you know, 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:31.960 we we do use an OL who I can actually 0:20:32.040 --> 0:20:35.520 pick out, like Andy and Wayne and Scott. You know 0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:38.360 your different tones. I can tell when they're who. They 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:41.679 can tell when I who. You know they learn that sound. 0:20:42.000 --> 0:20:44.200 So if we're ready to get down out of the woods, 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:47.600 are ready to leave, or if we kill something willow, 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:49.879 who do you ever do it when you're not hunting? 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:55.720 You like like, uh, something good happens at that? Like yeah, yeah, 0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:57.840 we we get out and you will allow who do 0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:00.520 at the house? When something what? What does it mean 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:04.520 when Steve phillips ol hoots not in the woods, like 0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:07.040 what what's given an example of something that's happened? Why 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:10.879 would you alhoot? Usually usually if something good, you know, 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:14.080 has happened, I might be out in the backyard and 0:21:14.080 --> 0:21:16.800 and uh, one of the kids have done something. I'll 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:20.040 sometimes I'll throw one out is bad, you know, it's 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:24.680 it's a celebratory, celebratory. There you go, there you go, exactly. 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:36.399 It was zero surprise to me when I learned that 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:40.119 Moe Shepherd had a good owl and crow call. The 0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:44.119 guy is a turkey hunter's turkey hunter. He's been successful 0:21:44.240 --> 0:21:47.040 year after year on some tough public ground, and a 0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:50.200 spring hasn't passed in the last forty five years. When 0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:53.879 he hadn't brought home a spring gobbler. He's got a 0:21:54.040 --> 0:21:57.760 unique technique for prepping his voice to make the hoot 0:21:57.840 --> 0:22:05.439 of a barred owl. Meet most shepherd. So you I 0:22:05.480 --> 0:22:07.960 know you al Who because I've heard you do it before. 0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:11.200 But you also cro called with your voice. Yes, I do. 0:22:11.359 --> 0:22:13.000 I do. I do it a lot with my voice 0:22:13.080 --> 0:22:15.679 because it's so handy and easy and you don't have 0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:19.359 to move or anything. You know, I can be sitting 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:22.919 there totally still, and if a turkey hadn't goblded in 0:22:22.920 --> 0:22:24.960 a while, but I'm working or something other, I can 0:22:25.000 --> 0:22:28.920 just call with my voice. And you know, I did 0:22:28.960 --> 0:22:32.480 anybody teach you or just I just learned to do 0:22:32.520 --> 0:22:33.720 it on my own. Like I said, when I was 0:22:33.760 --> 0:22:35.720 a kid, I heard all those sounds out in the 0:22:35.760 --> 0:22:39.120 woods and stuff, but I didn't really try. I tried, 0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:42.920 but didn't make much success that. I didn't really learn 0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:45.360 to al who until I was probably turkey hunting, did 0:22:45.359 --> 0:22:48.640 you somebody? Ah? Yes, I had a brother in law 0:22:48.720 --> 0:22:51.040 that that al Who did. He's one that got me 0:22:51.080 --> 0:22:56.560 into turkey hunting and he was good at al hooting. Okay, 0:22:55.840 --> 0:22:58.840 what good voice callers are usually pretty good woodsman and 0:22:58.880 --> 0:23:03.960 pretty good hunters. Okay, walk me through your al hooting process, 0:23:04.000 --> 0:23:06.679 because I know you you kind of have something you do. 0:23:07.000 --> 0:23:08.320 Like I said, I tried it for years when I 0:23:08.359 --> 0:23:12.080 was younger, and then one day I I'd seen somebody 0:23:12.160 --> 0:23:14.840 kind of doing this I was hunting with and the 0:23:14.840 --> 0:23:16.960 best time, Remember he said, you know, he said, you 0:23:16.960 --> 0:23:19.719 gotta get your throat right to make the noise come 0:23:19.720 --> 0:23:22.040 out right. He said, if you don't it, this blurts out. 0:23:22.400 --> 0:23:24.760 So I kind of swallow some air, if that makes 0:23:24.760 --> 0:23:27.439 any sense. I swallow air for three or four gulps 0:23:27.520 --> 0:23:30.280 before I start mouth hoot, and it gets the right 0:23:30.400 --> 0:23:34.320 tone in there. And like I said, I'll you'll probably 0:23:34.320 --> 0:23:35.680 hear this. You should be here a little bit of 0:23:35.760 --> 0:23:37.680 this of me swallowing the air, like I said, I 0:23:37.760 --> 0:23:59.919 talked about very nice. Let me hear your crocs. Tell me. 0:24:01.040 --> 0:24:02.639 I don't know what it's called, but you know, curls 0:24:02.720 --> 0:24:05.000 make a lot of different sounds and lots of different 0:24:05.040 --> 0:24:09.200 serious series. And you know, sometimes Turkey's gobble a long series. 0:24:09.240 --> 0:24:13.960 Sometimes they gobblet short calls, you knowiced short blasts and stuff. 0:24:14.000 --> 0:24:16.200 So you know, it's just whatever mode I'm in or 0:24:16.240 --> 0:24:18.600 what mood I mean, what I've blast out when I did, 0:24:18.720 --> 0:24:21.000 but I can do several different cadences of it. So 0:24:33.200 --> 0:24:38.160 Old Ryan Grab is an all around woodsman, from bears 0:24:38.240 --> 0:24:42.400 to turkeys to catching spring croppy. He's an expert. I've 0:24:42.440 --> 0:24:45.560 actually never turkey hunted with Ryan, but I knew he 0:24:45.640 --> 0:24:48.040 had a good out hoot before I ever heard it. 0:24:48.320 --> 0:24:52.560 Our ability to make hacurate predictions based on correlations is stunning, 0:24:53.080 --> 0:24:57.000 and its streamlines our ability to make judgments. I want 0:24:57.040 --> 0:25:01.160 you to meet Old Ryan flint face Grab. He rarely 0:25:01.200 --> 0:25:05.840 smiles for pictures, so I called flint face. So where 0:25:05.840 --> 0:25:09.840 where did you learn to use your natural voice to call? With? 0:25:10.160 --> 0:25:14.760 Just growing up and probably hearing some older guys in 0:25:14.880 --> 0:25:17.840