WEBVTT - The Trump Indictment Post-Mortem

0:00:02.080 --> 0:00:04.000
<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Law.

0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:08.200
<v Speaker 2>Are plaintiff's leries involved in a kind of competition in Congress?

0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:10.320
<v Speaker 2>Force a judicial code on the justices?

0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:13.600
<v Speaker 1>Interviews with prominent attorneys in Bloomberg Legal Experts.

0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:16.680
<v Speaker 2>My guest is former federal prosecutor Robert Mint Joining me

0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:18.960
<v Speaker 2>is Bloomberg Law reporter Kyle Janner.

0:00:18.680 --> 0:00:22.000
<v Speaker 1>And analysis of important legal issues, cases and headlines.

0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:25.440
<v Speaker 2>Is it unusual a grand jury like this to suspect

0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:27.800
<v Speaker 2>people aren't telling the truth? One of the first times

0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:30.360
<v Speaker 2>the Justice Department has called for the breakup of a

0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:31.160
<v Speaker 2>major company.

0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:34.920
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Law with June Grasso from Bloomberg Radio.

0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:41.040
<v Speaker 3>Welcome to Bloomberg Law. I Bloomberg Radio. I'm Madison Mills

0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:44.680
<v Speaker 3>in for June Grasso. This week former President Trump pleading

0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:48.440
<v Speaker 3>not guilty in a Miami court Tuesday, this after becoming

0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:52.560
<v Speaker 3>the first president in history charged with committing federal crimes,

0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:55.640
<v Speaker 3>then heading up to New Jersey for some fundraising. Plus

0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:58.240
<v Speaker 3>we're going to cover that Microsoft Activision deal later in

0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:01.760
<v Speaker 3>the show, facing more headwhen this time in the United States.

0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:04.000
<v Speaker 3>We're going to break it down with our senior litigation

0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:07.319
<v Speaker 3>analyst from Bloomberg Intelligence. But first we got to kick

0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:11.160
<v Speaker 3>it off with the former president. Moments after getting booked fingerprinted,

0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:13.800
<v Speaker 3>he went back to campaigning, stopping at a cafe in

0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:17.759
<v Speaker 3>Miami before heading to Jersey for that fundraising event. There,

0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:20.440
<v Speaker 3>he said that President Biden is the one whose legal

0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:22.679
<v Speaker 3>troubles should be in the spotlight. Take a listen.

0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:27.480
<v Speaker 4>I will appoint a real special prosecutor to go after

0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:30.880
<v Speaker 4>the most corrupt president in the history of the United

0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:36.760
<v Speaker 4>States of America, Joe Biden and the entire Biden crime family.

0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:39.880
<v Speaker 4>Name a special prosecutor.

0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:42.280
<v Speaker 1>All right.

0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:45.120
<v Speaker 3>So that was former President Trump speaking last night from

0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:49.320
<v Speaker 3>New Jersey. So let's go to our fantastic politics roundtable.

0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:52.640
<v Speaker 3>We've got Wendy Benjaminson here at Bloomberg News senior editor,

0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:54.880
<v Speaker 3>and we've got Kaylee Lines, who was on the ground

0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:57.880
<v Speaker 3>for us in Miami yesterday. So Kaylee, I want to

0:01:57.880 --> 0:01:59.280
<v Speaker 3>start with you. First of all, where are you.

0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:01.240
<v Speaker 5>I'm back in Washington.

0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:04.400
<v Speaker 3>Okay, you're back in Washington. Just because we haven't had

0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:06.440
<v Speaker 3>a chance to cover this on the show last week,

0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:10.000
<v Speaker 3>give me a recap of what happened yesterday and how

0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:11.560
<v Speaker 3>it was for you being there on the ground.

0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:15.800
<v Speaker 5>Very hot, yes, very very hot. Indeed, that is my

0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:18.600
<v Speaker 5>primary takeaway, and the rest of the day really frankly

0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:22.000
<v Speaker 5>played out as we expected, at least from a legal perspective.

0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:25.080
<v Speaker 5>President Trump in the early afternoon showed up to the

0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:28.280
<v Speaker 5>courthouse and he was arrested and processed just like anyone

0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:31.040
<v Speaker 5>else who has been charged with a federal crime. He

0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:33.600
<v Speaker 5>had his fingerprint taken, not a mugshot, and then he

0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:36.679
<v Speaker 5>appeared before the judge and he actually himself didn't talk

0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:38.760
<v Speaker 5>very much, we understand, according to people who were in

0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:42.480
<v Speaker 5>the room, but he pleaded thirty seven counts, not guilty

0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:45.200
<v Speaker 5>to all of those. He then left the courthouse, as

0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:48.160
<v Speaker 5>you said, Maddie, he met with supporters in Miami at

0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:50.840
<v Speaker 5>Cafe Versai, a very popular Cuban restaurant, then went on

0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:53.560
<v Speaker 5>to New Jersey. I think what was perhaps most surprising

0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:56.280
<v Speaker 5>to me about the day was Miami's police chief had

0:02:56.280 --> 0:02:59.480
<v Speaker 5>said they could see up to fifty thousand protesters there

0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:02.079
<v Speaker 5>at the court house on arrarenement day. I saw maybe

0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:04.920
<v Speaker 5>a couple hundred. It really was not the scene that

0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:06.920
<v Speaker 5>I think a lot of us had anticipated going in.

0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:09.920
<v Speaker 3>Well, it's always and you said this on the air yesterday,

0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:12.760
<v Speaker 3>Kaylee's copying you, but it's always so funny when the

0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:18.080
<v Speaker 3>media presence is bigger than the protest presence at these events. Yeah, recovering, Wendy.

0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:20.160
<v Speaker 3>I want to bring you in here though, And I

0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:22.760
<v Speaker 3>loved what you said yesterday too. You said He's stopping

0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:26.080
<v Speaker 3>over for a coffee and a Cuban right after getting booked.

0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:28.840
<v Speaker 3>I mean, what is your takeaway after having a day

0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:31.480
<v Speaker 3>to kind of process this, what's the big takeaway for you?

0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:35.760
<v Speaker 6>I think from a politics standpoint, the thing that's striking

0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:39.680
<v Speaker 6>me the most is how this should be manna from

0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:43.240
<v Speaker 6>heaven for the rest of the GOP field. In all

0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:46.040
<v Speaker 6>the years I've covered politics and all of American history,

0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:51.400
<v Speaker 6>which aren't all that different time spans, there is there

0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:56.360
<v Speaker 6>is a you know, anytime, I mean, getting indicted is

0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:59.080
<v Speaker 6>like the best thing that could happen to your opponent

0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:03.080
<v Speaker 6>if you are running against him. In this case, they

0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:07.560
<v Speaker 6>are trying so hard not to offend Trump's base that

0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:12.960
<v Speaker 6>they are not really you know, going after him. It's

0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:15.960
<v Speaker 6>not like he's chumming the water for sharks. He's still

0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:18.480
<v Speaker 6>this guy They've got a tiptoe around, even though he's

0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:20.159
<v Speaker 6>under federal indictment.

0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:23.480
<v Speaker 3>Well, I also want to get your take not just

0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:27.040
<v Speaker 3>on the response that we're getting from the other folks

0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:30.360
<v Speaker 3>running for president here, but also the former Trump camp

0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:33.560
<v Speaker 3>in Washington. Here's what Senator McConnell had to say yesterday,

0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:37.040
<v Speaker 3>given that the former president is facing a federal indictment

0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:39.680
<v Speaker 3>and these serious allegations, could you.

0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:43.000
<v Speaker 4>Still support him if he becomes the nominee even if

0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:43.760
<v Speaker 4>he's convicted.

0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:49.800
<v Speaker 7>Look, the Republican campaign for the nomination is We've already

0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:52.719
<v Speaker 7>been going on for six months, going to be going

0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:56.039
<v Speaker 7>on for a year longer. And I'm just simply not

0:04:56.200 --> 0:04:59.479
<v Speaker 7>going to comment on the candidates. We've got a bunch

0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:03.440
<v Speaker 7>of them. Yeah, I'm just simply gonna stay out of it,

0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:05.160
<v Speaker 7>all right.

0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:07.400
<v Speaker 3>So he's staying out of it, Kaylee, talk to me

0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:11.240
<v Speaker 3>about what the other responses are looking like, not just

0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:14.000
<v Speaker 3>from again, the other folks running for president here, but

0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:17.360
<v Speaker 3>the folks in Congress and the ones who previously were

0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:18.599
<v Speaker 3>part of the Trump camp.

0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:21.600
<v Speaker 5>Well, it really depends on where you're looking, because obviously

0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:23.799
<v Speaker 5>you have Mitch McConnell and frankly a lot of people

0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:25.599
<v Speaker 5>in the Senate who want to stay far away from this.

0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:28.200
<v Speaker 5>They aren't stepping up to defend him in the same

0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:30.520
<v Speaker 5>way you are seeing in the House, for example, with

0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:33.600
<v Speaker 5>Speaker McCarthy and some of these other kind of hardline

0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:36.359
<v Speaker 5>on the right side people stepping up kind of reiterating

0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:38.919
<v Speaker 5>the messaging we've heard from President Trump repeatedly that this

0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:41.120
<v Speaker 5>is a weaponization of the Justice Department, that there's a

0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:44.200
<v Speaker 5>two tiered justice system. What I really thought was interesting, though,

0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:47.239
<v Speaker 5>in terms of the twenty twenty four candidates, was former

0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:50.279
<v Speaker 5>President Trump's own Vice president Mike Pence, who of course

0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:53.560
<v Speaker 5>also is seeking the nomination, was on another network earlier

0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:57.120
<v Speaker 5>this morning saying he cannot defend what is alleged, and

0:05:57.160 --> 0:05:59.719
<v Speaker 5>I think that in particular is really striking.

0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:03.520
<v Speaker 3>Right, really interesting to continue to hear his comments about

0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:06.200
<v Speaker 3>it as well. Of course, I also want to get

0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:09.080
<v Speaker 3>to what we heard from Trump last night. As we

0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:13.280
<v Speaker 3>played earlier some sound from him, and the crowd started

0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:18.680
<v Speaker 3>chanting lock him up alongside Trump last night, Wendy, does

0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:24.040
<v Speaker 3>that become the defining campaign slogan for Trump in this

0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:24.880
<v Speaker 3>campaign cycle?

0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:27.680
<v Speaker 6>It sure seems like he's trying to throw all the

0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:31.000
<v Speaker 6>attention back on Biden and this what about ism that

0:06:31.279 --> 0:06:34.880
<v Speaker 6>you know, somehow these cases are similar when they're so

0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:40.760
<v Speaker 6>simply completely different, and you know, nothing has been proven

0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:43.800
<v Speaker 6>yet about Hunt, whether Joe Biden was involved in Hunter

0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:48.479
<v Speaker 6>Biden's you know, schemes. But this is something the Republicans

0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:50.479
<v Speaker 6>want to do. They just want to well, I should

0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:54.040
<v Speaker 6>say Trump's base wants to do. They want and actually

0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:56.800
<v Speaker 6>some of the Republican candidates who all are saying, yes,

0:06:56.839 --> 0:06:59.680
<v Speaker 6>Trump did something wrong, but the Justice Department is too political.

0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:02.520
<v Speaker 6>That's what they're going for. They're throwing it back on

0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:06.719
<v Speaker 6>the Biden administration to say no, I'm not corrupt, You're corrupt.

0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:10.200
<v Speaker 6>And you know, it's getting to be a little schoolyardy

0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:11.440
<v Speaker 6>to be frank.

0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:15.360
<v Speaker 3>Well, Kayley, speaking of the schoolyard vibes, this is not

0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:18.440
<v Speaker 3>the last of Trump's legal battles. Talk to me about

0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:20.120
<v Speaker 3>what else is going on with him.

0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:22.680
<v Speaker 5>Well, of course, in this case in particular, we could

0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:25.400
<v Speaker 5>see this drag on for a really long time. Things

0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:28.640
<v Speaker 5>obviously formally kicked off in Miami yesterday with this arraignment,

0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:31.280
<v Speaker 5>but now it moves from Miami to West Palm Beach,

0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:33.000
<v Speaker 5>where it's going to be overseen, at least for the

0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:35.280
<v Speaker 5>time being, by Judge Elen Cannon, who is a Trump

0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:38.400
<v Speaker 5>appointee who had already been involved in this investigation in

0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:40.800
<v Speaker 5>regard to the appointment of a special Master got a

0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:43.800
<v Speaker 5>lot of flak for ruling in Trump's favor in that case,

0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:46.240
<v Speaker 5>so it really will be up to her to decide

0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:48.320
<v Speaker 5>how speedily this moves along, because we know that the

0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:52.080
<v Speaker 5>former president has a reputation of elongating his legal battles,

0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:53.960
<v Speaker 5>and he could very well run this up to November

0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:56.600
<v Speaker 5>twenty twenty four or even beyond it. But of course,

0:07:56.800 --> 0:07:59.880
<v Speaker 5>in the time in between, we also could see other

0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:02.320
<v Speaker 5>indictments coming down. There is a non zero risk of

0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:05.600
<v Speaker 5>that happening, because he's still under active investigation by both

0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:08.520
<v Speaker 5>the special Counsel Jack Smith, who indicted him in this

0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:12.680
<v Speaker 5>case regarding his involvement in January sixth the storming of

0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:15.480
<v Speaker 5>the capital efforts to overturn the results of the twenty

0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:18.880
<v Speaker 5>twenty election. He is also being looked at by the

0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:21.400
<v Speaker 5>District Attorney in Fulton County, Georgia, again related to his

0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:24.880
<v Speaker 5>attempts to overturn the results of the election in that state.

0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:28.120
<v Speaker 5>We could actually see something out of that Georgia prosecutor

0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:30.680
<v Speaker 5>as early as August, so less than two months from now.

0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:33.280
<v Speaker 5>Unclear what the timeline is in terms of the other

0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:37.320
<v Speaker 5>investigation by Jack Smith. But this just kind of goes

0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:40.400
<v Speaker 5>to show you that his legal difficulties are stacking up,

0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:43.320
<v Speaker 5>because of course he's already been indicted in Manhattan earlier

0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:46.920
<v Speaker 5>this year and was found liable for sexual assault in

0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:48.040
<v Speaker 5>a civil case as well.

0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:51.800
<v Speaker 6>And if I could just jump in something that got

0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:53.959
<v Speaker 6>missed in all the news yesterday was the judge and

0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:57.880
<v Speaker 6>the aging Carrol case decided to let her proceed with

0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:04.840
<v Speaker 6>a new in her ongoing attack. She wants more money

0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:08.440
<v Speaker 6>from Donald Trump. Eugene Carroll does because he continued in

0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:12.400
<v Speaker 6>the CNN town hall to repeat the same things that

0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:15.760
<v Speaker 6>a jury had already decided were defamatory, and so she

0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:18.600
<v Speaker 6>wants even more money from him every time he says

0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:19.160
<v Speaker 6>those things.

0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:23.320
<v Speaker 3>Well, and given that it sounds likely that that effort

0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:25.640
<v Speaker 3>from her would be successful, Yes, Wendy.

0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:28.400
<v Speaker 6>It could be. I just think what's going on here

0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:30.240
<v Speaker 6>is like we're all trying to figure out how this

0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:33.000
<v Speaker 6>will work, and I feel like we're all on a ship,

0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:36.240
<v Speaker 6>you know, piloted by Christopher Columbus that's about to drop

0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:38.920
<v Speaker 6>off the edge of the flat earth. You know, we

0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:42.400
<v Speaker 6>have no idea. This has never been this has never

0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:45.400
<v Speaker 6>happened before. We have no idea what it's like for

0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:49.600
<v Speaker 6>a presidential front runner to be under federal indictment and

0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:53.160
<v Speaker 6>possibly under multiple state indictments. We have no idea what

0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:56.240
<v Speaker 6>it would be like for to elect a president who

0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:58.920
<v Speaker 6>has been If he is I mean, if he's acquitted,

0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:01.880
<v Speaker 6>then we go back to normal, the normal world. But

0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:04.360
<v Speaker 6>while we're in bizarro land, you know, we have no

0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:07.200
<v Speaker 6>idea what's how this will all play out. What if

0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:11.319
<v Speaker 6>he's convicted and elected. It's highly unlikely, but who knows

0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:15.720
<v Speaker 6>these days. It's just a very weird period in American history.

0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:19.400
<v Speaker 3>Well, Wendy, I feel like I've asked you every day

0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:22.760
<v Speaker 3>for the past two weeks. What happens if he is

0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:26.960
<v Speaker 3>elected president? And Ken pardon himself? What happens if he's

0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:29.520
<v Speaker 3>running from jail? Like the amount of what ifs that

0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:32.920
<v Speaker 3>we never thought we would be asking ourselves and each

0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:37.680
<v Speaker 3>other definitely never never cease to amaze me. Wendy Benjaminson,

0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:40.400
<v Speaker 3>thank you so much for joining us Bloomberg News senior editor,

0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:43.480
<v Speaker 3>and of course Kaylee Lines fresh out of that trip

0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:45.600
<v Speaker 3>to Florida to cover this for us on the ground

0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:48.120
<v Speaker 3>in Miami. Always great to speak with both of you.

0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:51.360
<v Speaker 3>Things for making time stick with us here on Bloomberg Law,

0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:53.640
<v Speaker 3>because coming up we're going to talk about that Microsoft

0:10:53.720 --> 0:10:58.160
<v Speaker 3>Activision deal and the roadblocks still facing those folks. This

0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:00.600
<v Speaker 3>is Bloomberg Law. I'm Madison Mills with us.

0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:11.640
<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Law with June Grasso from Bloomberg Radio.

0:11:12.400 --> 0:11:15.120
<v Speaker 3>Him Madison Mills in for June Grasso. This week for

0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:18.600
<v Speaker 3>Bloomberg Law. We've been focused quite a bit on former

0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:21.680
<v Speaker 3>President Trump and his own legal battles, but we're gonna

0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:25.679
<v Speaker 3>spotlight some of the battles happening with current politicians, specifically

0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:29.600
<v Speaker 3>in the House of Representatives, because Republicans somewhat paralyzed amid

0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:32.760
<v Speaker 3>in fighting stalling some votes. We're gonna get to the

0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:37.400
<v Speaker 3>House GOP feud with Zach Cohen. He's Bloomberg Government's Congress

0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:39.839
<v Speaker 3>reporter and he joins us by phone. Zach, thanks so

0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:42.280
<v Speaker 3>much for hopping on with us. What's going on in

0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:46.000
<v Speaker 3>the House. I've been so focused on Miami this week.

0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:47.720
<v Speaker 3>I need an update on Washington.

0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:51.000
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, no, and what is actually decent in Washington. There

0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:53.800
<v Speaker 8>you go. They've managed to move ahead with sort of this,

0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:56.680
<v Speaker 8>as you mentioned, sort of a disagreement or a feud,

0:11:56.679 --> 0:11:59.400
<v Speaker 8>if you will, between House Speaker Kevin McCarthy and his

0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:03.000
<v Speaker 8>leadership team and about a dozen House Republicans from the

0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:05.640
<v Speaker 8>more conservative wing of the party that essentially for a

0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:08.800
<v Speaker 8>week stalled any floor action on anything other than the

0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:12.320
<v Speaker 8>most consensus of bills. And so that's been resolved in

0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:15.160
<v Speaker 8>they're voting today. They are voted in today out a

0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:18.840
<v Speaker 8>number of bills, key Republican messaging items that they were

0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:21.080
<v Speaker 8>hoping to get done last week. And so now the

0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:23.960
<v Speaker 8>question is can they sort of maintain that truth not

0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:26.040
<v Speaker 8>just next week when they're still in session, but for

0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:27.439
<v Speaker 8>the rest of the year and they'll lead up to

0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:30.439
<v Speaker 8>the twenty twenty four elections when this Republican majority will

0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:33.160
<v Speaker 8>have to defend that rather meager majority.

0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:37.760
<v Speaker 3>Again, well, Zach, you cover Congress, You know this space

0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:41.560
<v Speaker 3>incredibly Well did this feel unique to you or is

0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:43.640
<v Speaker 3>this just politics as usual?

0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:47.120
<v Speaker 8>It was very unique. The fact that members of the

0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:50.000
<v Speaker 8>majority had the votes to sink what's called the rule

0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:52.120
<v Speaker 8>on the House floor, which basically sets the terms of

0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:55.040
<v Speaker 8>floor debate. That hasn't happened in twenty years before this,

0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:57.280
<v Speaker 8>And so the fact that members of the party were

0:12:57.320 --> 0:13:00.520
<v Speaker 8>able to stand up to their own leadership and say

0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:02.840
<v Speaker 8>no we're not going to allow you to move the

0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:06.040
<v Speaker 8>bills that you want to move today was rather extraordinary,

0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:09.439
<v Speaker 8>and what it really boiled down to, these folks did

0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:11.840
<v Speaker 8>agree with the actual substance of the bills that they

0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:14.560
<v Speaker 8>were voting on, but they wanted another vote on a

0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:18.360
<v Speaker 8>bill that would subject certain pistols to certain rifle regulations.

0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:22.320
<v Speaker 8>And there's this ongoing negotiation around spending levels, which is

0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:25.000
<v Speaker 8>something that they thought that the debt ceiling agreement that

0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:27.480
<v Speaker 8>McCarthy had reached with the White House was a little

0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:30.400
<v Speaker 8>bit too high, and so they wanted that number to

0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:32.959
<v Speaker 8>be brought down and they got that, and so we'll

0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:35.480
<v Speaker 8>see if they sort of continue to flex those muscles.

0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:37.440
<v Speaker 8>But again, this is rather unusual.

0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:39.040
<v Speaker 3>And it would you read it as sort of a

0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:41.319
<v Speaker 3>referendum on McCarthy's leadership.

0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:44.960
<v Speaker 8>There's this interesting new rule that basically says any member

0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:48.000
<v Speaker 8>of the House Republican Conference can sort of unilaterally call

0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:51.800
<v Speaker 8>up a vote that would subject McCarthy to another vote

0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:55.120
<v Speaker 8>for speaker, which obviously we remember took a historically long

0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:57.520
<v Speaker 8>time in January to get done. So we could see

0:13:57.520 --> 0:14:00.640
<v Speaker 8>that happen again. If these folks really wanted to give

0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:03.480
<v Speaker 8>McCarthy a hard time. I think what they're essentially saying

0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:05.440
<v Speaker 8>here is, look, we could do that. Again. They haven't

0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:07.800
<v Speaker 8>explicitly said that, but they're saying that they have the

0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:09.320
<v Speaker 8>votes to really go up with the works if they

0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:12.280
<v Speaker 8>don't like what McCarthy does. And so they're using really

0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:15.960
<v Speaker 8>different tools in the procedural toolbox to make their message known,

0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:19.040
<v Speaker 8>not just to McCarthy obviously, but to their own constituents

0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:21.600
<v Speaker 8>who are looking for really conservative policies out of Washington.

0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:27.120
<v Speaker 3>It makes me wonder, if you know this cohort has

0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:30.600
<v Speaker 3>such a choke hold on McCarthy, is he kind of

0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:33.720
<v Speaker 3>just a figurehead at this point that has to continue

0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:36.960
<v Speaker 3>to walk this tight rope just to maintain his position

0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:37.600
<v Speaker 3>as speaker.

0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:40.920
<v Speaker 8>There's an old adage in Washington that leadership is followership,

0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:43.360
<v Speaker 8>and this is something that obviously not just Kevin McCarthy,

0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:45.960
<v Speaker 8>but you know, Chuck Schumer, Mitch McConnell, and Nancy Pelosi

0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:48.720
<v Speaker 8>will all tell you that you're only as powerful a

0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:52.280
<v Speaker 8>leader as a number of votes behind you within your party.

0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:55.440
<v Speaker 8>And so McCarthy not only has to contend with this

0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:57.400
<v Speaker 8>more conservative wing of his party, but he's also got

0:14:57.440 --> 0:15:00.560
<v Speaker 8>a number of moderates who won really tight rate in

0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:03.560
<v Speaker 8>twenty twenty two that delivered that majority, and you're not

0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:05.960
<v Speaker 8>going to hear from them as much, but especially folks

0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:08.440
<v Speaker 8>from maybe New York or California and somebody the bluer states,

0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:11.280
<v Speaker 8>But they're also really critical to that majority, and so

0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:13.800
<v Speaker 8>McCarthy has to find a way to balance between the

0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:16.440
<v Speaker 8>two of them. And it just seems the conservative size

0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:18.400
<v Speaker 8>is going to be a little louder about their demands.

0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:23.360
<v Speaker 3>And to what extent, Zach, is this sign of what's

0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:27.200
<v Speaker 3>to become increasingly worse, for lack of a better word,

0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:31.200
<v Speaker 3>overtime in terms of the partisanship that we're seen in

0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:37.360
<v Speaker 3>the country happening amongst our lawmakers inside Congress.

0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:40.720
<v Speaker 8>It really does speak to a growing partisanship. I think

0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:44.400
<v Speaker 8>you're right about that. There are members of both parties

0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:48.000
<v Speaker 8>that have taken particularly strident policy positions and are willing

0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:50.320
<v Speaker 8>to use the sort of tools of Congress in order

0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:53.040
<v Speaker 8>to extract those concessions from the people who actually call

0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:56.640
<v Speaker 8>the shots. And so obviously the conservative part of the

0:15:56.720 --> 0:15:58.800
<v Speaker 8>House Republican Conference have been the most public about this,

0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:00.960
<v Speaker 8>especially over the last six months. And I think the

0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:03.120
<v Speaker 8>really key question, honestly will be over the next couple

0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:05.280
<v Speaker 8>of months. If they do that on spending bills as well,

0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:08.720
<v Speaker 8>the government does run out of money September thirtieth, and

0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:12.320
<v Speaker 8>if that or rather authorization to spend money by the

0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:13.840
<v Speaker 8>end of the fiscal year, and so if they don't

0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:15.480
<v Speaker 8>come to some sort of agreement by then, you could

0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:18.160
<v Speaker 8>see a government shut down in early October, and that

0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:20.120
<v Speaker 8>will be where the rubber hits the road. Can you

0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:23.880
<v Speaker 8>get enough support from both Democrats and Republicans on both

0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:26.600
<v Speaker 8>ends of Pennsylvania Avenue from Congress to the White House

0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:29.040
<v Speaker 8>to say, here's how we're going to spend our money

0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:31.360
<v Speaker 8>over the next year, and that's where it's really going

0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:31.880
<v Speaker 8>to be tricky.

0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:35.200
<v Speaker 3>So that makes me think that we are going to

0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:38.040
<v Speaker 3>have the same debt ceiling trauma that we just had

0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:40.760
<v Speaker 3>over and over again, based on your description of the

0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:43.480
<v Speaker 3>government shut down on spending as well.

0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:46.320
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, I remember the debt ceiling is only raised until

0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:49.680
<v Speaker 8>about twenty twenty five. Whether that's the second term of

0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:53.120
<v Speaker 8>the Biden administration or the Trump administration, that deadline's going

0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:55.040
<v Speaker 8>to come up again, and depending on the configuration of

0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:57.440
<v Speaker 8>the government, could be a very different compromise than what

0:16:57.560 --> 0:17:01.120
<v Speaker 8>McCarthy and Biden came to and that's spend decisions that

0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:04.200
<v Speaker 8>government appropriations, which is being worked out right now in committee.

0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:06.720
<v Speaker 8>That's going to come to the floor and come to

0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:08.680
<v Speaker 8>a head sometime over the next few months. And that's

0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:11.040
<v Speaker 8>going to you know, not just on you know, overall

0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:13.480
<v Speaker 8>spending levels, but on really critical details, things like how

0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:15.879
<v Speaker 8>much do you spend on border security or the military,

0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:20.480
<v Speaker 8>or on healthcare services. You know, the Nancy Pelosi speaker

0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:23.200
<v Speaker 8>Pelosi likes to say, show me a budget, I'll show

0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:25.560
<v Speaker 8>you your values. And so it's it's sort of a

0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:29.640
<v Speaker 8>very existential debate, especially because so much of what Congress

0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:31.520
<v Speaker 8>does is spend tax payer dollars.

0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:34.600
<v Speaker 3>Well, talk to me about what that budget and value

0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:38.240
<v Speaker 3>system looked like with these bills that the GOP did

0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:41.920
<v Speaker 3>end up grinding out. What did these bills entail.

0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:45.040
<v Speaker 8>So the at least on the debt ceiling, the first

0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:49.720
<v Speaker 8>bill that they passed out was a lot of many

0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:54.520
<v Speaker 8>more cuts to especially domestic spending than what they ended

0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:57.679
<v Speaker 8>up agreeing to between McCarthy and Biden. It ended up passing,

0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:01.280
<v Speaker 8>but mostly with Democratic votes out of Congress. And so

0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:05.280
<v Speaker 8>now what they're talking about is actually capping spending at

0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:10.200
<v Speaker 8>fiscal twenty twenty two levels. Basically, in Layman's terms, spending

0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:14.639
<v Speaker 8>the same nominal dollars that were spent last year on

0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:16.840
<v Speaker 8>the next year. Now we all know inflation has been

0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:19.320
<v Speaker 8>rather rampant, and so in real terms, it's a cut

0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:23.199
<v Speaker 8>to basically everything. Part of the debt sealing compromise was

0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:25.880
<v Speaker 8>that defense would at least get a three percent increase.

0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:28.880
<v Speaker 8>But if they can't come to an agreement on either

0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:31.679
<v Speaker 8>defense or non defense spending, there would be actually an

0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:35.880
<v Speaker 8>across the board cut in both real and nominal dollars,

0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:40.919
<v Speaker 8>and so that could mean government services, military preparation, all

0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:44.480
<v Speaker 8>of that would probably take a hit. This pocket of

0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:49.240
<v Speaker 8>the House Republican conference is more than anything else, concerned

0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:53.440
<v Speaker 8>about debt deficit concerns. They're worried about the growing national debt.

0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:56.359
<v Speaker 8>They're worried about how much is borrowed in the form

0:18:56.400 --> 0:19:00.760
<v Speaker 8>of bonds that are sold both in the US and abroad,

0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:03.840
<v Speaker 8>and so that is their top line concern and everything

0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:06.200
<v Speaker 8>else is kind of secondary. But there if you ask

0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:08.640
<v Speaker 8>members of Congress, okay, what should be cut in the interim,

0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:11.520
<v Speaker 8>that makes it a lot trickier, and so Democrats will say,

0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:14.359
<v Speaker 8>we need to be able to fund these programs. And

0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:18.320
<v Speaker 8>that's the debate that's happening right now in these appropriations committees, both,

0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:19.639
<v Speaker 8>I should say, in the House and the Senate.

0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:23.320
<v Speaker 3>Final minute with you, Zach, what's the next shooter drop

0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:26.480
<v Speaker 3>when it comes to the debate over this legislation and

0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:29.200
<v Speaker 3>spending on that legislation. What's the next big site.

0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:29.320
<v Speaker 5>Going to be?

0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:32.840
<v Speaker 8>The House appropriations committees are meeting this week, I believe,

0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:37.120
<v Speaker 8>on military construction, veterans affairs, things like that, and then

0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:39.520
<v Speaker 8>they've got eleven other bills that they'll have to agree on,

0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:42.400
<v Speaker 8>and the key question will be can they get those

0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:46.479
<v Speaker 8>across the House floor? Probably not this week, and then

0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:48.080
<v Speaker 8>they're gone for a two week recess, but maybe when

0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:50.600
<v Speaker 8>they come back before the August recess. Those couple of

0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:53.080
<v Speaker 8>weeks will be really critical to understanding whether the House

0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:56.119
<v Speaker 8>Repoking Conference is unified as it goes into negotiations with

0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:59.639
<v Speaker 8>especially Senate Democrats over general government spending.

0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:02.520
<v Speaker 3>A lot to cover down there for us, Zach, thank

0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:04.600
<v Speaker 3>you so much for joining us and taking a break

0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:06.960
<v Speaker 3>from that coverage to walk us through all of it.

0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:10.199
<v Speaker 3>That was at Bloomberg Government Congress reporter Zach Cohen. You

0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:13.600
<v Speaker 3>can find his story about the House GOP floor feud

0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:16.520
<v Speaker 3>on the Bloomberg terminal and at bloomberg dot com. Stick

0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:17.680
<v Speaker 3>with us, This is Bloomberg