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Speaker 1: This is the Meat Eater Podcast, coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You

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Speaker 1: can't predict anything. The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to

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Speaker 1: you by First Light. Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging

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Speaker 1: deer stands, or scouting for ELK, First Light has performance

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Speaker 1: apparel to support every hunter in every environment. Check it

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Speaker 1: out at first light dot com. F I R S

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Speaker 1: T l I t e dot com. Joined today by

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Speaker 1: Randy Brown from Alaska's Fishing Game Agency and Uh, Randy,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna you're gonna, I'm gonna embarrass you a little bit,

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Speaker 1: but not bad. It's in the in the kind of

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Speaker 1: way you want to be embarrassed. Where you hear a

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Speaker 1: bunch of good stuff about yourself. Okay, yeah, not not

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Speaker 1: not where you hear stuff bad about yourself. Good.

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Speaker 2: You do know it's Wildlife Service, Oh, federof Fish Wildlife Service.

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Speaker 3: Oh, because that's where my brother works.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why he Okay, Okay, I'm sorry about that.

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Speaker 1: Uh that was Krins problem US Fish and Wildlife Service

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Speaker 1: and that helps that. That's a good team too. How

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Speaker 1: why Randy's here? Randy, my brother Danny, who works for

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Speaker 1: the US Fish and Wildlife Service, has never once in

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Speaker 1: his life made a recommendation of someone that should come

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Speaker 1: on the podcast. Ever. I don't want to say stingy

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Speaker 1: with respect, but he just like, you know, he uh,

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Speaker 1: you know he he called me and said, you know

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Speaker 1: who you need to have on this show is Randy

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Speaker 1: Brown because he like in the seventies, moved up and

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Speaker 1: lived in the bush in Alaska and lived off the

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Speaker 1: land up in the yukon Ate like a strict meat diet,

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Speaker 1: raised his kids up there, had all these adventures. Later

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Speaker 1: decided to become a fisheries biologist, got him self educated.

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Speaker 1: He's doing all this cutting edge work on these kind

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Speaker 1: of mysterious fish in Alaska. He's like, that's who you

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Speaker 1: should be talking to. I had to convince you to

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Speaker 1: do it. Yeah you did, so thanks for coming down, man,

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Speaker 1: Hey you bet. Yeah. I wish we had you here

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Speaker 1: for like three, two shows, because I do want to

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Speaker 1: do one show about living in the bush, living off

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Speaker 1: the land in the bush. Then I want to do

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Speaker 1: another show about fish. Yeah, but we're gonna have to

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Speaker 1: condense it, you know, Well, I'm amenable to it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we got to do two quick things. Three, A couple

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Speaker 1: of quick things before we get there. One man, you

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Speaker 1: weren't here for if we had this guy on about quail,

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Speaker 1: people got mad about that. So I don't love you

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Speaker 1: know about this, Randy, but down here and there's like

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Speaker 1: a huge problem with Bob White quail just vanishing across

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Speaker 1: their range. I didn't know that. A host of problems

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Speaker 1: with Bob Boy Quail. So we had a guy in

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Speaker 1: who had developed it's like a de wormer. Well, they

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Speaker 1: have a high parasite loads in some areas, particularly in Texas,

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Speaker 1: they have a high parasite load. So a guy comes in.

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Speaker 1: We called the episode what Happened to Bib Boy Quail.

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Speaker 1: A guy comes in, He's like, Oh, there's all kinds

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Speaker 1: of things that are happened in by boy quail. One

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Speaker 1: of them is a high parasite load. So he gets

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Speaker 1: the first FDA approved drug for wildlife that is publicly available,

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Speaker 1: meaning any Joe Blow can buy this this quail feed

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Speaker 1: with a dewormer in it, okay, and you can put

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Speaker 1: it out and try to produce parasite loads in your quail.

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Speaker 1: And he has found anecdotally and otherwise through research that

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Speaker 1: it's helpful to quail in some areas where they have

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Speaker 1: high parasite loads to deworm them.

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Speaker 3: But man, oh man, oh man, the whole world, the

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Speaker 3: whole quail.

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Speaker 1: World's very upset that he came on because they're like,

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Speaker 1: it distracts from the main message of habitat. I disagree

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Speaker 1: because he talked about habitat a whole bunch. But anyways,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna have another quail. We're gonna have a better quail,

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Speaker 1: not a better We're gonna have a different quail person

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Speaker 1: on to explain why it's bad, and among other things,

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Speaker 1: like it'll be like what real That episode will be

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Speaker 1: called what really Happened to the bob Woit Quail? And

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Speaker 1: in it, I will press the individual to explain why

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Speaker 1: it's bad to deal with If there's a big problem

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Speaker 1: with ten parts to it, why it's bad to deal

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Speaker 1: with one of those parts.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm guessing that the ratio between the size of

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Speaker 4: parts is gonna be.

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Speaker 1: Dude, I'm not doing a great job of articulating all

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Speaker 1: of the consternation, because, yeah, a lot of consternation in

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Speaker 1: the quail world. What was the world before we found

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Speaker 1: was Remember we talked about there as the world, Oh,

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Speaker 1: the beekeeping world.

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Speaker 5: Bee keepers get oh, very very particular.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, that was our first That was the first

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Speaker 1: time we ever weighed in on the Bob white quail.

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Speaker 1: So we're going to have a follow up episode about

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Speaker 1: Bob white Quail and we're going to talk about that

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Speaker 1: Bob whit Quail episode. Quick question from from uh to

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Speaker 1: put to the people in the room. This is from

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Speaker 1: a fellow named Christian. So he's check this out. What Statesian?

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Speaker 1: New York? Oh, okay, he's in New York. He gets

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Speaker 1: a this is a letter. He's thirty three years old.

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Speaker 1: Odd that he told us that he's thirty three years

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Speaker 1: old and owns thirty acres. Maybe he likes it how

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Speaker 1: close his age is to his acreage. It says, I'm

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Speaker 1: thirty three years old and owned thirty acres with his

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Speaker 1: brother in upstate New York. His father bought the land

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Speaker 1: in the eighties, he said. He here's his letter, here's

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Speaker 1: his question, here's his ethical conundrum. Over the last few years,

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Speaker 1: we've been dealing with a land owner who owns the

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Speaker 1: property next to us, who is strongly against hunting. I'll

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Speaker 1: keep mind, these guys have owned this place since the eighties. Okay,

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Speaker 1: while we are respectful neighbors and hunt by the book,

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Speaker 1: she harasses us every year. Do you have any suggestions

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Speaker 1: on how to deal with such an issue. So, on

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Speaker 1: the day before the opener of New York's gun season,

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Speaker 1: he receives this text. He cleaned out the names because

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Speaker 1: he doesn't want the person to get harrassed his name

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Speaker 1: and her name. He cleaned the names up. This is

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Speaker 1: in New York State. She texts him on the eve

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Speaker 1: of the opener of the deer opener. Good morning, here

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Speaker 1: we go again, much to my dismay, you are back

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Speaker 1: to kill the deer. Oh sorry, you are back to

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Speaker 1: kill the deer. I love and for whom I provide

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Speaker 1: a sanctuary that for you becomes a killing field. It

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Speaker 1: is a nightmare for me. So before you tell me

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Speaker 1: not to text you again, I'd like to remind you

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Speaker 1: that we share a property boundary. I encourage the presence

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Speaker 1: of deer, and you can take advantage of this. It

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Speaker 1: is not right, and as we still live in a

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Speaker 1: partially civil society, I'm asking you with all civility, to

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Speaker 1: please stay off my land and not take care and

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Speaker 1: not take advantage of the preponderance of deer that are

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Speaker 1: here because I provide protection and a sanctuary for them

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Speaker 1: best wishes.

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Speaker 5: I'm so curious about what her sanctuary looks like.

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Speaker 6: She signed off with best wishes.

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Speaker 3: And good started with good morning, and ended with best wishes.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it seems pretty civil, but he's not moving on

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Speaker 5: to her property.

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Speaker 4: He's on his prom he's not on it.

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Speaker 7: And it seems like she's been doing this kind of

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Speaker 7: thing for a while before. You tell me not to

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Speaker 7: text you again, right, Yeah, I think Joannis had.

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Speaker 1: The right approach. We talked about it earlier.

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Speaker 6: What's that laying on us?

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Speaker 4: Oh maybe just go pay her a visit with uh

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Speaker 4: with the warden on your on your hip. And she

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Speaker 4: hasn't done anything else to have a chat with her. Well,

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Speaker 4: unless I don't know at what point it becomes hunter harassment.

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Speaker 1: A text this begins good morning and ends best wishes

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Speaker 1: to a neighboring property is not harrassment. She didn't threaten them.

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Speaker 7: No, it wouldn't be in there going to like threaten

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Speaker 7: to put her in jail. Just have the ward and

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Speaker 7: give give her a little like education.

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Speaker 4: If this is all she's doing is sending texts like this,

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Speaker 4: then Christians should just reply to her and say, hey,

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Speaker 4: we're not going to go on your property. We're gonna

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Speaker 4: continue hunting. We do everything by the law, et cetera,

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Speaker 4: and it's over and done. But if it's a if

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Speaker 4: there's something more than what we're seeing here, because we're

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Speaker 4: getting just a little snippet of this world, then I

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Speaker 4: would say go and pay her a visit for sure.

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Speaker 1: But I would think at this point, I feel, at

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Speaker 1: this point it's like no one wants to get that text.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, she's asking him to do something. He

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Speaker 1: just would reply and say, I'm respectfully.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I respect.

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Speaker 5: My property, thank you very much.

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Speaker 1: I respect your I respect your private property, but I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna use my property, uh, in accordance with the law,

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Speaker 1: and I expect that you'll behave in accordance with the law.

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Speaker 1: And sorry that we don't see eyed eye on this.

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Speaker 1: And then have you seen any biggins?

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Speaker 7: It make you not want to hunt that border though,

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Speaker 7: because you'd be all worried about a deer running.

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Speaker 1: If it runs onto her place. And he's only got

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Speaker 1: he's only got thirty acres, So I mean, not only

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Speaker 1: that's greats more than I got, but uh not Mortian

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Speaker 1: he's got.

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Speaker 4: That's a nice chunk for a back east.

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Speaker 6: Well, I feel like Giannis has some uh experience here

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Speaker 6: that most of us don't with the psychological burden that

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Speaker 6: overbearing neighbor can put on you, that's right. So uh

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Speaker 6: if there is more here, because it does, it just

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Speaker 6: weighs on your like, oh yeah, every shot that goes off,

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Speaker 6: I'm gonna get a text, every truck that comes up

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Speaker 6: our driveway, I'm gonna get a text every you know.

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Speaker 3: That had that very similar situation around a raccoon.

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Speaker 1: So he's a scar. That's why he's ready to get

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Speaker 1: He's ready to get the law. He's ready to throw down.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, if this lady's giving him heartburn.

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Speaker 1: It's like, here's an our listener question. So that's so

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Speaker 1: so that my official answer. I mean, if I don't know,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like from around the room, no Yoanni wants

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Speaker 1: to get a game warning and go over there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, to do a preemptive strike.

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Speaker 2: I like it.

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Speaker 1: Yeahan he proposes a preemptive strike, I propose, I propose

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Speaker 1: saying sorry, we don't see eyed eye. I'm gonna I.

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Speaker 7: Can see just doing nothing.

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Speaker 1: Also, just go on with your definitely justifiable to do nothing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: definitely justifiable to do nothing. Yeah, that's totally fair. Here's

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Speaker 1: another question, listener question. We got to talking recently about

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Speaker 1: pre chewing deer meat to give to your kids. Like

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Speaker 1: when our kids, all of our kids, when they turned

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Speaker 1: like pretty much the day they were nine months old,

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Speaker 1: I would chew up deer meat and give it to

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Speaker 1: them just as like a thing, like to like a

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Speaker 1: symbolic gesture, and then they would start eating meat at

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Speaker 1: that point. I don't know what they say nowadays. This

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Speaker 1: stuff to always changes, but a decade ago, you're supposed

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Speaker 1: to give a meat at nine months or they could

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Speaker 1: chew up meat at nine months.

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Speaker 4: Randy, does that apply when you're living out in the

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Speaker 4: bush in Alaska?

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Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you what. What we did is take

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Speaker 2: moose ribs that had been boiled up so nice and soft,

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Speaker 2: and I'd give it to the kids and hey, with

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Speaker 2: chew on it, just like the dogs chill.

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Speaker 1: No meat.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well there's some meat, not a bunch.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, roughly what age.

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Speaker 2: Well, they were still riding in a back for me, okay.

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Speaker 2: I I took him around with a jerry pack, no,

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Speaker 2: you know, and they loved it. I had two hands

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Speaker 2: to work with, and they had they got to look

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Speaker 2: at everything.

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Speaker 1: Sitting back there nowing on ribs yep, and if.

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Speaker 2: They dropped them, the dogs would take them.

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Speaker 1: So this guy's wondering, he just shot a deer. Okay,

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Speaker 1: he's a new father, so he had his first kid,

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Speaker 1: shot his first deer with lead ammunition. And now he's

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Speaker 1: wondering if if it's okay to have his kid and

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Speaker 1: his wife eat it because he's worried about the lead.

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Speaker 1: Come on, like, no, Well, first off, when you cut it,

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Speaker 1: just cut around the wound, mark, cut around the wound,

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Speaker 1: and then go satisfy your curiosity that that that when

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Speaker 1: people look at lead levels, there's not any evidence that

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Speaker 1: that hunters that eat a lot of deer meat have

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Speaker 1: elevated levels lead. There's also a lot of things about

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Speaker 1: inert lead and lead that's like in shot form. But

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Speaker 1: just cut around it. I mean, Plus, if you go

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Speaker 1: and buy what makes you think the stuff you're buying

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Speaker 1: is so like sure different? I mean, okay, I don't

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Speaker 1: want to feed him that, but we're gonna eat ocean,

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Speaker 1: big ocean fish.

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Speaker 7: If it's really weighing on them, just make the switch

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Speaker 7: to copper. Bullets or tungsten shot or small game whatever

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Speaker 7: like sure, so bugging you that much, but.

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Speaker 3: I would cut around it.

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Speaker 1: And I mean that's the main, the main thing we

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Speaker 1: you know, the main thing we eat. Uh. I got

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Speaker 1: a whole bag full of all the lead shot we

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Speaker 1: pulled out of birds. Yeah. You know what I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: do with that? Reload it?

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Speaker 8: No.

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Speaker 1: Woman. I was at this event, we did this book event,

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Speaker 1: and a woman came and she had this pendant that

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Speaker 1: was like a dish, like a dish, and it was

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Speaker 1: full of all kinds of shot and I was admiring it.

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Speaker 1: And it was all the shot from her first turkey.

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Speaker 1: And they sent and her and her husband sent me

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Speaker 1: a kit to make them. So I'm taking all the

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Speaker 1: shot we've ever picked out all of our food, because

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Speaker 1: I always put in a bag, and I'm making my

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Speaker 1: wife a necklace. And it's got like this resin. So

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Speaker 1: you take the dish, oh yeah, and you put all

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Speaker 1: the shot in the dish and it's like a pendant

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Speaker 1: and then you squirt this resin in the air and

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Speaker 1: then hold a black light on it and it makes

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Speaker 1: like a necklace of all the shot you picked out

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Speaker 1: of your food. That's cool.

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Speaker 7: Does your wife knows she's getting this?

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Speaker 1: Oh, I've told her about ten times, as haven't made

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Speaker 1: it yet. I got enough for two necklaces song, I

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Speaker 1: have one for my wife, more for my daughter.

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Speaker 5: There was another person who wrote in about prechewed food.

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Speaker 5: He says that his mom was a dentist and when

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Speaker 5: he himself had a kid, his mom was like, no, no, no,

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Speaker 5: don't do the prechewed food thing because or a dental hygienist,

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Speaker 5: because she said cavity developed. I don't think. I don't

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Speaker 5: think the logic is sound. But cavities developed because of bacteria.

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Speaker 5: So if you take food and you chew it up

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Speaker 5: and then you give it to your kid, that might

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Speaker 5: increase their likelihood of developing cavities.

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Speaker 7: Because they're.

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Speaker 1: Going to fall out anywhere.

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Speaker 5: That's why I didn't put it in the notes because

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Speaker 5: I thought that it didn't make any sense.

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Speaker 1: And there's nothing on your mom's mouth that isn't getting on.

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Speaker 5: You right exactly exactly. That's why I didn't include it.

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Speaker 7: But I thought, I think the food thing has been

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Speaker 7: played out.

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Speaker 1: We need to move on well with that said, at

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Speaker 1: least until we get another email or put it on

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Speaker 1: a T shirt.

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Speaker 3: So Randy, what, uh, what drew you to Alaska?

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Speaker 1: Man?

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Speaker 3: Like, how'd you wind up? And where'd you grow up?

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Speaker 3: And what drew you up there?

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Speaker 2: So I grew up in Santa Fe, New Mexico, and

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Speaker 2: so that was southern rockies where my stomping crown. As

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Speaker 2: a kid used to fish and you know, it was

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Speaker 2: more like hunting for those little, uh little rainbows up

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Speaker 2: in the headwaters. And uh and I just I don't know,

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Speaker 2: I just wanted to I wanted to live out in

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Speaker 2: the woods. I'd read some of these uh, you know

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Speaker 2: books like The Big Sky and some other baby gothries

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Speaker 2: and uh and I always felt like I was born

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Speaker 2: about one hundred years too late. But but so so

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Speaker 2: that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to go

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Speaker 2: out into the woods. And and uh, I had a

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Speaker 2: tense speed was my transportation at the time. So I

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Speaker 2: when I finished high school, I had got accepted up

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Speaker 2: to university and Fairbanks and came up for one semester

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Speaker 2: and quit and went and milk cows for the rest

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Speaker 2: of that year and then moved out and woods up

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Speaker 2: onto the.

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Speaker 3: Who's you milk cows?

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Speaker 5: For?

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Speaker 2: It was they had a few dairies up in that

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Speaker 2: Palmer while Silla area just north of Anchorage that were

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Speaker 2: partially subsidized by the state, and they never did They

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Speaker 2: never did make it so they could compete with milk

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Speaker 2: being shipped up from lower forty eight because they, I think,

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Speaker 2: just with the cold and the inability to grow a

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Speaker 2: lot of the grains, they had to ship grain up

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Speaker 2: to increase milk fat. And in the dairy world, it's

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Speaker 2: my understanding that milk fat content that was what determined

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Speaker 2: the price they got on it, and so they were

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Speaker 2: always on the edge. But I worked at this one place,

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Speaker 2: room and board seven hundred bucks a month, and you

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Speaker 2: were there milking it was about two hundred cows twice

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Speaker 2: a day.

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Speaker 1: It was pretty wild. They fed you, housed, you gave

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Speaker 1: you seven hundred bucks, yep, and you milk two hundred cows. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: How long did that take?

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Speaker 2: Well, it was about four or five hours of milking,

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Speaker 2: if I remember right, Milk them in the morning and

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Speaker 2: then milk them in the evening.

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Speaker 1: And at this point you're eighteen years old, roughly I

335
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Speaker 1: was eighteen.

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Speaker 3: And when you say you went to live in the woods,

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Speaker 3: how's that even begin?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: What like what.

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Speaker 2: So there was a buddy of mine that came up

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Speaker 2: with me. He and I used to kick around in

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Speaker 2: the mountains and winter camp and everything, and so so

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Speaker 2: he and I had had picked out off of a

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Speaker 2: map that we were going to go up onto the

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Speaker 2: Tautontic River downstream from.

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Speaker 1: Eagle What what like? What year was this?

347
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Speaker 2: So it was nineteen seventy six, So.

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Speaker 7: Was the Homestead Act still in play?

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Speaker 8: There?

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Speaker 1: No? Okay, so the male jumping ahead, but so the deal.

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Speaker 2: There was a Homestead Act opening in the late sixties,

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Speaker 2: I believe, and another one in seventy three. There have

353
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Speaker 2: been some state land dispersals as well, but those two

354
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Speaker 2: acts were before I ever got out there, and then

355
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,800
Speaker 2: the state gave away. They would have these land lotteries,

356
00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,000
Speaker 2: you know, in various places. But it was kind of screwy,

357
00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:16,399
Speaker 2: I thought, because because you were going to have a

358
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Speaker 2: bunch of people going out into the same place, and

359
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,359
Speaker 2: nobody could have could have made a living with that

360
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,360
Speaker 2: many people in those places, and a lot of them

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Speaker 2: didn't really survive, you know. They would go out there,

362
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Speaker 2: build a cabin and then realize, I got to get

363
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Speaker 2: in here with an airplane. There's four other people with places,

364
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:38,280
Speaker 2: and a lot of people left or never proved up

365
00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:39,480
Speaker 2: on it, you know.

366
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Speaker 4: So too many people trying to draw from the same resource.

367
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Speaker 1: That's right.

368
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Speaker 2: Yeah, So out on the Yukon, people were you know,

369
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Speaker 2: organized ten to twenty miles apart down the Yukon, up

370
00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:01,320
Speaker 2: the side creeks, and so that was sufficient distance, you know,

371
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,920
Speaker 2: provided they could you know, establish trap lines in different

372
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Speaker 2: places that they could make a living off the off

373
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Speaker 2: of the country. There they weren't stepping on each other's toes.

374
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Speaker 1: So when you when you tried to pick a spot,

375
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Speaker 1: how did you know? How did you know that you

376
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Speaker 1: wouldn't be crowded in with other guys? Or didn't you?

377
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,680
Speaker 2: We didn't. And in fact we went down to Tatonic

378
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Speaker 2: River and there was a guy named Dick Cook who

379
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:29,280
Speaker 2: lived there and and Tatonic River. So so this is

380
00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:32,240
Speaker 2: right up near the border with Canada, right where the

381
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:34,960
Speaker 2: Yukon comes in. There's a town of Eagle, it's got

382
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Speaker 2: a road to it, and then Circle is downstream about

383
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:42,520
Speaker 2: one hundred and sixty miles and then there's several of

384
00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:49,159
Speaker 2: these tributaries that are cannoeable and and so so Tatonic

385
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:54,119
Speaker 2: River was the farthest upstream of those tributaries. Well, actually

386
00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:56,720
Speaker 2: seventy mile river was was that was from the south.

387
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Speaker 2: But the Tatonic River flowed for about nine miles in

388
00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,400
Speaker 2: Alaska before it plunged into the Yukon. But you had

389
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,480
Speaker 2: big mountains there, the Ogilvie Mountains. That's a big range

390
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:11,280
Speaker 2: goes from you know, Dawson area all the way over

391
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Speaker 2: to the border between the Yukon and the Porcupine River.

392
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:19,600
Speaker 2: You know, all along that border is the western side

393
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 2: of the Ogilvies, big limestone mountains with sheep And of

394
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,680
Speaker 2: course we didn't know any of that, but we knew

395
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:32,240
Speaker 2: there were mountains there. But Dick Dick let us know

396
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:37,040
Speaker 2: that that he lived, he had a place five miles

397
00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:39,320
Speaker 2: up to Tondick and a place down on the Yukon,

398
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,800
Speaker 2: and that that there wasn't enough room for us and

399
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:45,400
Speaker 2: so and there wasn't.

400
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:46,160
Speaker 4: Did you just.

401
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,639
Speaker 7: Run into him or you knew he was in the area,

402
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,680
Speaker 7: or like, how do you make contact with him?

403
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,760
Speaker 2: I made We made contact on the river. We were

404
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 2: lining up the Tetonic River.

405
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:58,560
Speaker 3: Oh to go establish the place to live.

406
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're like, damn, there's a cabin here.

407
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,359
Speaker 2: Well, we didn't see the cabin. He was downstream of that,

408
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 2: but we pulled over. He was talking, well, he saw

409
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,240
Speaker 2: us on the way in and sky Charles was about

410
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,639
Speaker 2: six and a half feet tall and I was just

411
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:17,720
Speaker 2: about six and so. And so when we came back down,

412
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 2: even though we realized we weren't going to be able

413
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 2: to make a place there, we went up and explored

414
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,240
Speaker 2: around and fished and walked in the mountains and things.

415
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 2: On our way back down, though, Dick was talking with

416
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 2: John McPhee. That was the huge John see John mc

417
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:32,760
Speaker 2: out there.

418
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:34,880
Speaker 1: I'm aware that you had to run in with McPhee

419
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 1: while he was writing coming into the country, right right,

420
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 1: So you pull up and he's literally talking to John McPhee. Yeah,

421
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 1: and John mcviee.

422
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,639
Speaker 2: And John McFee dips his cup into the river and

423
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,120
Speaker 2: offers it to us, and we're like, we don't need that,

424
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:55,520
Speaker 2: we've been drinking the river. But because he was amazed

425
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:57,679
Speaker 2: that there was a river that was clean enough that

426
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:01,119
Speaker 2: you could drink out of, that's what it was.

427
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,399
Speaker 1: And so he was, I.

428
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 2: Don't know, offering it to we would kneel down and

429
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:12,919
Speaker 2: drink water and whatever. But yeah, but but as it

430
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 2: turns out Dick was. When John was with Dick, Dick

431
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,440
Speaker 2: was was looking at our tracks and he's telling He's

432
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 2: telling John, Okay, well, you can tell one guy's really big,

433
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:24,440
Speaker 2: you know, because of the stride.

434
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:24,879
Speaker 1: Lines and everything.

435
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 2: So John ended up what did he call Dick the

436
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,960
Speaker 2: Grand Swami of trackers or something like that. But but

437
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:41,880
Speaker 2: Dick never told him that he'd seen us before. So anyway, yeah,

438
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:42,440
Speaker 2: what a deal.

439
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 3: But so you're you're sort of in coming into the.

440
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:49,360
Speaker 2: Country sort of, not really, but sort of. And uh,

441
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,160
Speaker 2: and then we headed back to Eagle because we didn't

442
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 2: know what the heck we.

443
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 1: Were going to do.

444
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 2: And and when we were back there, there was a

445
00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:01,159
Speaker 2: fire that was taking place on the Canadian side of

446
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 2: the border, just uh north of the Yukon and and

447
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 2: the Canadians and the US have have they have these

448
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 2: these agreements, and so the BLM put the fire. They

449
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,920
Speaker 2: went out and and worked on that fire, and they

450
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 2: hired me and Charles out there, and so we went

451
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 2: and worked on a fire. And during that period of

452
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 2: time I met this guy, Mike Potts. And Mike Potts

453
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 2: had had he lived in the village. He married a

454
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,120
Speaker 2: gull in the village and and he had a trap line.

455
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 3: Was that his real name?

456
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, Mike Potts. Do you ever hear John Colter? He's

457
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:46,119
Speaker 1: a mountain, He's a he's called the Yellowstone Colter's Hell. Yeah. Okay.

458
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: He was over by where Seth lives in eighteen oh

459
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 1: eight and he was with a guy and they got

460
00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 1: caught by the Blackfeet. And that guy's name is Mike Potts. Oh,

461
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 1: and they caught Mike pots all up in little bits

462
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 1: and smeared him all over John Colder and then Colter,

463
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: and then they made Colter start running, and that was

464
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 1: Colter's run. That was Mike Potters. Yeah. Yeah, different Mike Pop.

465
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 1: That's a different mic post.

466
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, so Mike Mike always well, he several times

467
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 2: he had people come out to his trap line south

468
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 2: of Eagle Back on the north fork of the forty

469
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 2: mile and and help him do building projects or or

470
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,160
Speaker 2: haul meat and various other things. And so he invited

471
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 2: me to go out there with him that that winner,

472
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 2: and he had a dog team, had a couple of

473
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 2: cabins and wanted help with hunting, and I went with him.

474
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 2: Charles got involved with with gold mining.

475
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 1: He this is six and a half with Charles.

476
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and so and so he went gold mining

477
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 2: and I went trapping, and it was kind of like

478
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 2: an apprenticeship, you know, building cabins with moss, chinking and

479
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 2: and which is a wonderful way to go, just with

480
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 2: materials that you find out there in the woods, and

481
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 2: then uh and then taking care of meat. And we

482
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:20,399
Speaker 2: went and ended up getting a bear and a big

483
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 2: moose that was really fat. You know that these animals

484
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 2: go through these cycles of fat and lean, and big

485
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 2: bull before they go into rut has an enormous amount

486
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 2: of fat on it. And so Mike showed me how

487
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 2: to how to how to cut that stuff off and

488
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,439
Speaker 2: be able to render it into uh into oil, So

489
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 2: rendering moose fat.

490
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he was using that moose fat as a

491
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,679
Speaker 1: frying medium or like for baking or what was he

492
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 1: doing with the rendered moose fat?

493
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 2: Well, yes, it was it was too uh for frying,

494
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,199
Speaker 2: but it was also just to eat with your meat.

495
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 2: And then there was cracklings that was left over and

496
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 2: those were also So the deal with eating straight meat

497
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 2: is you got to eat meat and fat, and we

498
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 2: would use it that way. Sometimes we'd render as much

499
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 2: as twelve gallons I think was the most we've rendered

500
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 2: off a single big bull.

501
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: Damn.

502
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 2: That's kidney fat. Kidney's kidney fat that can fill a

503
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 2: five gallon bucket once you take the kidney out jamming

504
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 2: in there, and then all sorts of other fat in

505
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,639
Speaker 2: the intestines, the ribs, the brisk at the back.

506
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 6: So you were using primarily internal fat, not the external fat.

507
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: Not the back fat. Or he used the back fat too.

508
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,159
Speaker 6: Did you have separate uses or was it all just

509
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 6: one oil at the end of the day, one oil?

510
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 4: Okay? Got it?

511
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 2: And moose fat is hard, so you know when you

512
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 2: if you take it at root temperature, it it'll crack.

513
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 1: Off in a chunk. You know.

514
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 2: It's not like butter or anything like that. You know,

515
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 2: it just it breaks off in a solid chunk that

516
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 2: you can throw in the frying pan, melt it out,

517
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 2: fry the meat, and then when it starts cooling off,

518
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 2: you can dip it and get a big swath of

519
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 2: the fat on the on.

520
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 1: The meat so that then you take your thumbnail and

521
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 1: scrape it off through for your mouth. There is that.

522
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 2: But but the good thing about moose fat is if

523
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 2: you render it clean and decant it and pour it

524
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 2: off into a bucket. It will keep through a summer,

525
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 2: so you can have it without spoiling it. Bear fat,

526
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 2: on the other hand, will go rancid if it's not

527
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 2: kept very cold, so it's very different.

528
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 1: You know.

529
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 2: Bear fat is more of a of a liquid, almost

530
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 2: liquid at room temperature, but it won't keep. You can't

531
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 2: keep it for over over a summer. I mean you

532
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 2: could if you had it in a freezer. We were

533
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 2: dealing with whatever the temperature.

534
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,479
Speaker 4: I feel like I've had to survive just in the

535
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 4: pantry at the house for a year plus.

536
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 2: But it goes, it goes rancid. Yeah, my experience was it. Yeah,

537
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 2: it went rancid, and then it becomes dog food because

538
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 2: they don't care.

539
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 4: Sure, Sure, can you give You're talking about some pretty

540
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 4: specific places on the map, and I think you're doing

541
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 4: a good job for people that know that area of Alaska.

542
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 4: Can you give just a little bit bigger of a

543
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 4: geographical context, because I think Eagle sort of has like

544
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 4: the jumping off point for a lot of people that

545
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 4: went to do what you did, and just kind of

546
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 4: where that lies and why it's there and why people

547
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 4: that are drawn to that are drawn to Eagle I

548
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 4: think that's important.

549
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, so that's right at the border with Canada.

550
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 2: I mean it's just like ten miles downstream of the border.

551
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 2: And back in those days, anyway, that was after the

552
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 2: Native Claimed Settlement Act and before Anilka, and so there

553
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 2: was kind of a void and all all that a

554
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 2: lot of the land in Alaska at that point was

555
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 2: just sort of managed by b l M.

556
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 7: Didn't we do a podcast on that native Native claims

557
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 7: and aspects of the Native Yeah, people are wondering.

558
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, can I do it real quick?

559
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, go for it and correct me where I'm wrong here.

560
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 1: During it was during the Carter administration they finally they

561
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 1: finalized a lot of it. But for a long time Alaska,

562
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 1: a lot of the land in Alaska was in a

563
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: sort of managerial limbo. That's correct, right, And it was

564
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: they knew that that that that Native Alaskan tribes would

565
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: would claim some and some things would become park but

566
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: for a long time it was just in a in

567
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: a limbo. And then during the Carter administration and then

568
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: leading up to the Trans Alaska Pipeline and oil and

569
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: Prude Obey, they started to figure out with greater clarity

570
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 1: this land is is. This land is going to be parked,

571
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: This land is state land, this land is native land,

572
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 1: this land will be BLM land. As that fairly accurate.

573
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, they discovered the so the Statehood Act laid out

574
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 2: basic acreages of land that would become part of the

575
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 2: state ownership versus federal ownership and uh and that there

576
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 2: had to be some sort of native claim settlement, but

577
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 2: it wasn't figured out. They didn't have it all sorted

578
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 2: out on where it was going to be or or

579
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 2: other things like that. There were some parks, you know,

580
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 2: like the Dnale.

581
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: Was already there in the Arctic.

582
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 2: They called it National Wildlife Range and rather than a

583
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:54,479
Speaker 2: refuge and uh and that. So there's there's things that

584
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 2: were already sorted out for the for the federal system

585
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 2: when they when they found oil and they were looking

586
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 2: for a way to get it south. They the Secretary

587
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 2: of the Interior at the time is 'ed All and

588
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 2: he he essentially stopped everything, put a hold on everything.

589
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 2: And so that was the incentive to get the native

590
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 2: land claims settled.

591
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 1: Right. God, if you're going to put.

592
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 2: A pipeline through, we better figure out what land it is.

593
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 1: As they goes like who's going to end up owning

594
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: what right?

595
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so so that took place, and and it

596
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 2: also laid out the d two lands, which were the

597
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 2: federal lands, conservation areas, refuges, parks, other things like that,

598
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 2: not necessarily where they were or or how big each

599
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 2: plot was going to be, but that there would be, uh,

600
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 2: these parks and refuges in various places.

601
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: So in this area that we're talking about, like what

602
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 1: Yanni asked bout, were basically where the Ukon River flows

603
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: out of Yukon Territory into Alaska. At that time, in

604
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: the seventies, a lot of people were moving into that

605
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: area because.

606
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 2: You could just go live right, yeah, And it was

607
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 2: So the deal was that BLM what I heard was

608
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 2: BLM had gone up into the forty Mile country and

609
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 2: gone down and burned two cabins they considered to be

610
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 2: trespassed cabins, and they got taken to court over that.

611
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 1: And the legal.

612
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 2: Response was that they had to consider any cabin they

613
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 2: thought was trespassed, they had to deal with it in

614
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 2: the courts before they did anything with it.

615
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: They couldn't.

616
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,479
Speaker 2: They had to treat it like private property. And so

617
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 2: they were just like hands off we're not going to

618
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 2: deal with it.

619
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 1: Got it.

620
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 2: And so there were people that went down onto the Yukon,

621
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 2: and there were people doing this in a lot of

622
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 2: different places, but that was where I knew about at

623
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 2: the time, But.

624
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: But there was there.

625
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 2: It was sort of a you just had to kind

626
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 2: of negotiate with neighbors, with other people that were living

627
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 2: there for a place that wasn't going to step on

628
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 2: somebody else's toes or interfere with their trap line. And

629
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 2: that's what Dick did with us, you know, he said,

630
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,800
Speaker 2: you can't do it, you know, and we're thinking, Santa

631
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 2: Fe time, we'll be at least a mile away. You

632
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 2: did not, no twenty miles, you know.

633
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 1: So when you spent that, when you did that apprenticeship

634
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 1: with the guy, did that lead you to find a

635
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 1: place you could go set up in? Yeah?

636
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 2: So there was a He did it the year before

637
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 2: with this guy named Little John, little John Gottio, and

638
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 2: Little John was out there on the forty mile trapping

639
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 2: had a different cabin that same winter that I went

640
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 2: out and helped Mike. I helped him finish a cabin

641
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 2: in the snow and then took care of We had

642
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 2: a moose and a bear, and so I took care

643
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 2: of those out of his main cabin while he went

644
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 2: back and then came back out later in November or

645
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 2: something with his dogs. And during the winter, Little John

646
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 2: and I spent a lot of time together, and we

647
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 2: decided we were going to go well, we were initially

648
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 2: going to go up the Colin River the next the

649
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 2: next year, and when we started down the Yukon though,

650
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 2: Colina is a big tributary of the Porcupine River, So

651
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 2: to get there you'd have to go down to Yukon

652
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 2: a couple of hundred miles and then up the up

653
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 2: the Porcupine a couple hundred miles and then up the

654
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,959
Speaker 2: Colin River. And how were you guys?

655
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 7: Were you guys getting in by bush plane or were

656
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 7: you like traveling by boat or like, how were you

657
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:48,320
Speaker 7: getting into this remote stuff?

658
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 6: How were you and Little John hanging out together? Weren't

659
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 6: twenty miles apart.

660
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 2: It's doubling canoes and we were lining. We had no motors, yep,

661
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 2: and so the winter dogs of course, Yeah, so little

662
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 2: John had dogs. I didn't at the time, but I

663
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 2: ended up getting a couple of puppies and h and

664
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,760
Speaker 2: off a litter and so and so when we started

665
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 2: down to Yukon, though we had we had two canoes.

666
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 2: He had a canoe and I had one. And we

667
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 2: got down part way down and found out that nobody

668
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,320
Speaker 2: was living on the Candick River. Candiic River is a big,

669
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 2: big tributary of the Yukon there between Eagle and Circle,

670
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,839
Speaker 2: so it's about eighty miles the mouth. It is about

671
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:38,320
Speaker 2: eighty miles downstream of Eagle and it also head watered

672
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 2: in Canada and flowed for over one hundred miles through

673
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 2: through Alaska. And we decided there was a guy living

674
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 2: at the mouth of the of the Candic River. And

675
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:53,319
Speaker 2: it was a guy named Fred Beach. And he told you,

676
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,919
Speaker 2: no one's upstream of me. Well, several other people did too.

677
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 2: They knew that there was nobody up there, and and

678
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 2: he reiterated that and said he rarely makes it past

679
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 2: three miles up. He had two dogs and and so

680
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 2: we decided we're going to go up there and check

681
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 2: it out. And so we started lining up the river

682
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 2: and feeding ourselves along the way. We had a gill

683
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 2: net and we had we would we would shoot beavers

684
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 2: and feed us and the and the dogs in that

685
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 2: way we shoot squirrels sometimes for the dogs. And what was.

686
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,879
Speaker 6: Your lining up process and what type of mileage could

687
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 6: you make going upstream like that?

688
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,479
Speaker 2: So, so lining is a process where you have about

689
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 2: one hundred foot long rope and one ends tied to

690
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 2: the front of the canoe, ones to the back canoe.

691
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 2: They lining is more easily done if they got a

692
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 2: little keel on the bottom. And so what you're doing

693
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 2: is adjusting these two lines so that that canoe stays

694
00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 2: off shore and tries to stay parallel with the So

695
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 2: a big gravel bar, you just walk up on the

696
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 2: gravel and it's out in the water, pulling it along.

697
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:07,799
Speaker 2: And then when you want to create a cross, you

698
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 2: jump in it and cross and go up the other side.

699
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 2: If you have to get by a drift pile or

700
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 2: buy a big cut bank, you might use a pole,

701
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 2: about a ten foot spruce pole and just push yourself

702
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 2: off the bottom to get past.

703
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,399
Speaker 6: So are you kind of walking backwards when you're lying them?

704
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 2: No, it's not that much. Well, if you were hauling

705
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 2: a moose, you might, yeah, not enough drag, not enough drag.

706
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: It just goes real smooth.

707
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 4: So by adjusting the two lengths of that rope. You're

708
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 4: just adjusting the angle of the canoe, and that's it's

709
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:40,280
Speaker 4: basically faring in the current.

710
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, you just have it, did it's straight out from you.

711
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 1: You can just about yeah, yeah, just about yeah.

712
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 2: And so there's boulder fields on the Candic River, and

713
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 2: so you could you it's if you got a keel,

714
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:54,800
Speaker 2: it's like power steering and you can go around between

715
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,839
Speaker 2: rocks and everything. So whereas if you don't have a keel,

716
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 2: it kind of bumps against shore. It's doesn't go very

717
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 2: well at all.

718
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 1: How many miles were you making on that big river?

719
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 2: You know, sometimes ten miles, more often.

720
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 1: Six or eight a day. Yeah, and you got so

721
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 1: we get so.

722
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 2: I don't know if you know this, but when the

723
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 2: Second World War came along, the government ended up when

724
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 2: we got involved in it, they shut down materials that

725
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,399
Speaker 2: could be used for the war effort from going anywhere else.

726
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 2: And all of the mines in Alaska, with a couple

727
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 2: of exceptions, got shut down. And what people back in

728
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 2: the thirties and early forties were doing is trapping in

729
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 2: the winter and then working the mines in the summer.

730
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:47,879
Speaker 2: And so the fur industry went down too, and they left,

731
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,280
Speaker 2: and so that was all the cabins that we found

732
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 2: on the candy were of that vintage, you know. So

733
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,479
Speaker 2: we were coming there forty years after anybody had been there,

734
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 2: and so and so we would we went up river

735
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 2: with one canoe and one of us would walk the

736
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 2: spruce groves looking for cabins, and the other would line

737
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 2: and switch off here and there. And and we found

738
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 2: a few, a few cabins, but none of which were functional.

739
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 2: They had because back then they didn't have, you know,

740
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 2: a lot of the waterproofing tarps and various other things,

741
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 2: and so they would develop a leak somewhere they had

742
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 2: They used tar paper on the roofs and sometimes dirt

743
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 2: over that or moss. But if they ever got a leak,

744
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 2: you know, then you'd get a rot going on in

745
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,320
Speaker 2: the roof would fall in, or a wall would crash

746
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,359
Speaker 2: out or something like that. But what we did see

747
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 2: was big piles of moose antlers, and then in the

748
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 2: upper river big piles of caribou antlers too. So we

749
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,919
Speaker 2: thought piles, Well, what do you do with them?

750
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 3: I mean, from the people that were living there.

751
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 2: From the people that had lived them there, I see,

752
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 2: And they wouldn't.

753
00:40:58,400 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 1: They wouldn't do anything.

754
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 2: They bring him in, but they wouldn't do anything with him.

755
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:03,359
Speaker 1: So they throw him in a pile I see.

756
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 2: And they would last for a long time, and so

757
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 2: I mean porcupines chew him and squirrels and things like that.

758
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 1: But but they they they were still there.

759
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 2: That it was a good sign because you and we thought,

760
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 2: why go to the kaleen, We're going to come up here,

761
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 2: and that's what we did.

762
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 3: And then when you were seeing all those antlers, it

763
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,399
Speaker 3: would show you where people had lived and also show

764
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:24,920
Speaker 3: you where places that might be good hunting exactly.

765
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 2: And in almost every case there was a thin area

766
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 2: open lead or something in the Candic River that would

767
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 2: for water in the winter. They were great places, dry

768
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 2: dry spruce woods.

769
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 1: And and good water. And you found a guy that

770
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: had starved to death, right.

771
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 2: I did, Yeah, Me and me and Fred we found him.

772
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 2: He was that was.

773
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 6: Held where near a big pile of antlers.

774
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 2: He was not.

775
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 1: Well.

776
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 2: So so little John and I had gone up and

777
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 2: we had built two cabins where most built two cabins.

778
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 2: And then we went back to Eagle and got traps

779
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 2: and things and and stoves, and we came back down

780
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 2: and and Fred came with us and a couple other

781
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 2: folks who were interested in having line cabins, just cabins,

782
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 2: emergency cabins, you know, if you get wet, because these

783
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,359
Speaker 2: rivers that will overflow and sometimes you need to get

784
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,359
Speaker 2: past anyway, and so you get wet, and having a

785
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 2: cabin in various places was was beneficial. So so Fred

786
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 2: wanted one about ten miles up the river. And and

787
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 2: he's the one that kind of designed this a little.

788
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 2: It was a it wasn't a very good cabin. It

789
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 2: was about five feet tall on the inside, and there

790
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:50,359
Speaker 2: weren't any windows, and the door was just a piece

791
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:51,919
Speaker 2: of plywood that we had found it in a drift

792
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 2: bile out on the out on the Yukon and and

793
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 2: it just had these leather hinges on it. So that

794
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 2: was what that. And and then a bunk it was

795
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 2: about six feet wide by nine feet long, somewhere to survive,

796
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 2: somewhere to get out out of the cold and have

797
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 2: a fire. And uh, and that's where Smigel ended up going.

798
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 2: We called him Smiegel. Well, so to deal with him,

799
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 2: he came down.

800
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:15,839
Speaker 1: Who's this guy?

801
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 6: This is the dead guy.

802
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 1: The dead guy eventually, sorry.

803
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:23,399
Speaker 4: So eventually you knew this guy before he died.

804
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 2: I did not, but Fred had, Fred had seen him.

805
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 2: Fred was this gregarious guy that lived at the mouth

806
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,879
Speaker 2: of the Candic and a lot of different people would

807
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:33,399
Speaker 2: come in there. There was a slew that you could

808
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 2: catch pike and and things, and so everybody had it

809
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 2: on their on their on their maps, you know, they

810
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,439
Speaker 2: would go in there, and he would go over and

811
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:46,800
Speaker 2: trade things, you know, a beaver hide for a sleeping

812
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 2: bag or various things like this, and and uh. And

813
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 2: one year this guy that that we called Smigel, he

814
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 2: called himself John the Baptist. But he and a and

815
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 2: a buddy of his had floated down from Canada on

816
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 2: a raft, on a log raft, and there was a

817
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 2: big cabin just like a mile up stream of the

818
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 2: Candy and they had seen that and gone to spend

819
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 2: the night there, and his buddy during the night shoved

820
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 2: the raft off and left. And so he wakes up

821
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:17,320
Speaker 2: in the shorting ditched him. He ditched him, did Smiegel,

822
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 2: and so and so he he had the clothes on

823
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 2: his back, the sleeping bag, and and uh and a

824
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 2: shotgun at twenty gates. You know those rossies with the external.

825
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 2: He had a twenty gage shotguns.

826
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 6: You just got to wonder how much background have you

827
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 6: have you tried to do any background, like the ditching

828
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:37,760
Speaker 6: the partner? Is that bad character of which one?

829
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, who was the who was the who was the

830
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:43,320
Speaker 1: sort of dick you know exactly? I have no idea,

831
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 1: I have no idea.

832
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:48,880
Speaker 2: But but this guy wandered down and he didn't know

833
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 2: Fredwich Baptists on the Baptist Yeah, wandered down to uh

834
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 2: and this is like early September. He wandered down to

835
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:59,319
Speaker 2: the mouth of the Candy and saw that there was

836
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 2: somebody in this cabin across the slough. And Fred came

837
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 2: over and got him. And Fred was always like, you know,

838
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,319
Speaker 2: happy with the system, you know, and always wanted to

839
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 2: show it to somebody. A canoe back on a lake

840
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 2: where they go to hunt ducks and muskrats, you know,

841
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 2: and various other you know, a cash here or there,

842
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 2: you know, and and.

843
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:21,720
Speaker 1: Me just so unclear, like he had a sweet setup

844
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 1: and he shared he'd want to share, right, yeah, yeah,

845
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 1: like I catch pike here, I do this there, yeah, okay.

846
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 2: And and he was not very ambitious, so he only

847
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:33,760
Speaker 2: he might get a Lynx or two, you know, in

848
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 2: in Trapping or in eight or ten Martin, and you

849
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 2: know that would be enough for him.

850
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 1: He just didn't. He wasn't very ambitious.

851
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 9: And so you know, a very ambitious guy out there, tho,

852
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 9: it's gotta be fairly ambitious.

853
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 2: Maybe he didn't build the cabin they called it. Morris's

854
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 2: I always going back? Yeah, but but anyway, he he

855
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:59,240
Speaker 2: he decided that he was going to go back east

856
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:02,399
Speaker 2: that fall and he told he told this guy that

857
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 2: he had to catch a ride or build a raft

858
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:08,719
Speaker 2: and go to Circle. They couldn't stay there, but the

859
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 2: guy stayed and Fred got a ride. There was a

860
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:15,319
Speaker 2: there was a barge called the Brainstorm that ran out

861
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:17,800
Speaker 2: of Circle and it would go up to Eagle and Dawson.

862
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 1: I got I got interrupted discover I got lost from it.

863
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 1: So Fred, So Fred's living there. Yeah, and okay, let's

864
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 1: just stick with just calling him Smiegel. Fred's living there.

865
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:31,799
Speaker 1: Smiegel comes down, Sniegel's been abandoned by his buddy. Yeah.

866
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 3: Now, now who says they're going back? They got to

867
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 3: go east?

868
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 2: Fred is Fred had his plan to go back east.

869
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 2: So he had he had a bunch of food stored.

870
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 3: Oh, and he says. But he says, you can't stay

871
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:42,839
Speaker 3: here at my house.

872
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:44,759
Speaker 2: You can't stay at my house. You have to find

873
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:46,359
Speaker 2: a ride to Circle.

874
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:48,359
Speaker 1: And get out of here. I'm gonna be gone. I'm

875
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:50,439
Speaker 1: gonna be out of town. And when I'm out of town,

876
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:52,759
Speaker 1: I don't want you here eating my food. That's right,

877
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 1: got it? And about that?

878
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 2: And Fred got to town by by hailing this barge.

879
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 2: The barge would pick people up. I mean, it was

880
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:04,840
Speaker 2: a big enough barge. It could haul like a dump truck,

881
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 2: you know, on its deck and building materials and things.

882
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 2: And it would go down and go to fort Yukon

883
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 2: and then up to okro on the Porcupine in Canada.

884
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:17,360
Speaker 2: But that was that barge's route, right and the and

885
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:21,280
Speaker 2: the road that would you know, where supplies were loaded

886
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 2: was Circle. And so anyway that Fred got a ride

887
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,840
Speaker 2: up and went back east, hitchhike back east and spent

888
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 2: till it was early November when he got back to

889
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 2: Eagle and put his It wasn't frozen yet. There were

890
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 2: there were ice flowing, you know. But he went downstream

891
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 2: in his canoe in amongst all these ice chunks.

892
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:51,839
Speaker 1: In November. Yeah, in November, not ambitious. Well he knew

893
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:53,800
Speaker 1: how to do. You're not ambitious.

894
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:54,320
Speaker 3: Let me tell you what.

895
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 1: I'm a picture.

896
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 2: So he gets down almost of the Candic River when

897
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:03,359
Speaker 2: the river is just jamming up a little too much

898
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 2: for even him, and he pulls his canoe out, walks

899
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 2: to his cabin and it's about twenty below and Smiegel

900
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 2: has moved his lamp and his sleeping gear to this

901
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 2: cabin up at three mile, three miles farther up, and

902
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 2: Fred was he was pissed. And then he left a

903
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 2: note on the door, I'm up at three mile cabin

904
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 2: John the Baptist, you know. And so and so Fred

905
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 2: goes up there and this guy, this guy has been

906
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 2: eating his jarred fish. He's been eating the moose that

907
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 2: he had, and has sewn clothes out of furs that

908
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 2: Fred had. He's loaded all of our ammunition we had.

909
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:51,319
Speaker 2: Fred had this metal box bolted to a tree that

910
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 2: would kind of like an underbed box on a truck,

911
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:57,399
Speaker 2: and it was back in the woods behind his place.

912
00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 2: But of course he'd shown this guy that and that

913
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,439
Speaker 2: was where all of us, me and Fred and little

914
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:06,840
Speaker 2: John had reloading materials there. And so he had loaded everything.

915
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 2: We all shot two forty threes, and so he had

916
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 2: loaded it all but with different you know, you shake

917
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:17,880
Speaker 2: it and it's none of it was consistent. None of

918
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 2: it was consistent. We're like, this is not good, and

919
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:23,760
Speaker 2: we had to get a bullet puller then eventually undo

920
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:27,359
Speaker 2: it all, undo them. Yeah, we weren't going to shoot him.

921
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:29,959
Speaker 2: We had no idea about it, right.

922
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 6: You're like, this one's good for grouse, this one might

923
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 6: might take down a moose maybe.

924
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:36,399
Speaker 1: Yeah.

925
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:43,279
Speaker 2: So so so anyway, I had left my snow shoes.

926
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 2: I had store bought snow shoes, but I left them

927
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,879
Speaker 2: down there because I wanted to. I wanted to build

928
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:50,799
Speaker 2: a pair, and I knew that if I had a

929
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 2: store bought pair, I wouldn't right, And so I had

930
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 2: left a pair down there and built a new set.

931
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 2: And but anyway, Fred fred is Bread is pissed off

932
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 2: at this guy. Fred used to grow pot on the

933
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,919
Speaker 2: roof of his that cabin. He would he would throw

934
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 2: dog shit up there, and then he would throw seeds.

935
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 2: It wasn't it wasn't any good. That's like, yeah, it

936
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 2: wasn't any weed.

937
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 1: What it wasn't good weed?

938
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:20,239
Speaker 6: No, like not for the area, good weed or not

939
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:22,400
Speaker 6: good weed just can't be choosers.

940
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 1: Kind of weed.

941
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:27,319
Speaker 2: It It would give you a headache more than it

942
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 2: would give you a high. But anyway, this guy had

943
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:31,839
Speaker 2: smoked all his pot too.

944
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 7: He was living high on the hog while you guys

945
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 7: are gone.

946
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 2: And Fred got pissed about that, and he says it

947
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:42,399
Speaker 2: wasn't any good stick around anyway. Fred says, you got

948
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 2: to go circle or eagle after it freezes up. You

949
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:47,800
Speaker 2: got to go because I'm going to kill you otherwise,

950
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:50,719
Speaker 2: right and so and so this guy says, I'm not

951
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 2: going either. I'm going to chalk Keatsick. So chalck Keatsick

952
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 2: is on the Black River flowing down into the Porcupine

953
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:03,879
Speaker 2: and and it's a long ways north from the Candic River.

954
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 2: But that's what this guy says. And so further into

955
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:10,799
Speaker 2: the bush further h Yeah and so and so, uh.

956
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:15,879
Speaker 2: Fred outfits him with with some some grain and some

957
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:19,359
Speaker 2: rice and some beans and stems, gave him, gave him

958
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:22,919
Speaker 2: a twenty two pistol, Holy cat. And and this guy

959
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 2: takes off with my snow shoes right and and cruises

960
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:30,239
Speaker 2: up the Candic River because he's going to go up

961
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 2: the Candy and over into the the Black river drainage,

962
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 2: and and and so I came down late he left

963
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 2: uh late November, and h and.

964
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:43,439
Speaker 1: I had so I I freaking dart too.

965
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 2: I was, Yeah, I was staying in this cabin above

966
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 2: Johnson Gorge, so about thirty miles up the river. And

967
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:52,359
Speaker 2: and so I would line a canoe up there and

968
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:55,239
Speaker 2: spend the winter. But there was a pass you could

969
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 2: go over some mountains and down to the Yukon, and

970
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 2: I preferred to do that and run the river because

971
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 2: the river would would overflow and then your trail would

972
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:06,839
Speaker 2: be gone and things. If you could, you know, get

973
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 2: to a place that it was all water.

974
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:09,880
Speaker 1: So I came.

975
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 4: Down flow, meaning that you get water flowing on top

976
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 4: of the ice.

977
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 1: That's right.

978
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:16,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. So so once a river freezes over, you get

979
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:21,360
Speaker 2: snow on it. Sometimes the flow is enough that it

980
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:23,920
Speaker 2: it doesn't have enough room underneath the ice as it

981
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 2: starts thickening up weight on it and things, and it'll

982
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:30,480
Speaker 2: seep up into the snow over the ice and then

983
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 2: it's it's it's slush for a while until it reaches

984
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:39,200
Speaker 2: the surface and refreezes, you know. But anyway, so I

985
00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 2: had come down over this pass and come down to

986
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:44,719
Speaker 2: get my snow shoes because the ones I built I

987
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 2: broke and I had to splice them or anyway I

988
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:52,800
Speaker 2: had I had. I got down there in early December,

989
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:58,399
Speaker 2: like ten days after Smiegel had left Fred, and Fred says, well,

990
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:01,520
Speaker 2: he took your he took your your snow shoes. And

991
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 2: I said, let's go and get him. And so we

992
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:07,319
Speaker 2: we we started walking up the river, but that was

993
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 2: a really big snow yere and it was we We

994
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 2: went about five miles up and I decided, ye, he

995
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:16,759
Speaker 2: he can go wherever he wants. But you know, I'm like,

996
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 2: he's not going to make it to chuck heat sick,

997
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 2: no way. And and it actually became a topic among

998
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:24,800
Speaker 2: all of us living on the river, and uh.

999
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 7: Where is megel?

1000
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:29,719
Speaker 2: Well, we all we all knew from being out there

1001
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:31,759
Speaker 2: that you can't make a living with a twenty two

1002
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 2: pistol in the winter. You might shoot a grouse or

1003
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 2: a squirrel or something like that here or there, but

1004
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:41,239
Speaker 2: you can't feed yourself that way. And he didn't have

1005
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 2: enough food to start with.

1006
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:45,400
Speaker 7: Someone tells me his buddy had a reason to abandon

1007
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:47,239
Speaker 7: him after hearing this story.

1008
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 1: I think maybe. So. Yeah, we've honed in on who's

1009
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 1: the dick? Yeah, I think maybe so.

1010
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:55,360
Speaker 6: So just to pause here for a second. Again, it

1011
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:58,359
Speaker 6: became a topic amongst everybody on the river. What I

1012
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 6: imagine this is mostly in your heads with little bits

1013
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 6: of being together, because keep in mind, right now we're

1014
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:08,719
Speaker 6: in the days of instant gratification point being right there,

1015
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:10,880
Speaker 6: cell phones, text messages.

1016
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:12,879
Speaker 1: Yeah right, Hey, sorry about that.

1017
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:13,959
Speaker 3: Well that's over here.

1018
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 1: Oh it is.

1019
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 2: I should put mine on airplane too.

1020
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 6: So yeah, Phil will tell you not to have that

1021
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 6: thing on the table either, Okay, yeah, get interference sometimes there.

1022
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:26,880
Speaker 1: I'm gonna turn it off. Ye.

1023
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:34,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, you're doing great. Large preamble just to ask how

1024
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 6: often are you all getting together to have conversations in person?

1025
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:43,840
Speaker 2: Hey, we had good dog teams. Okay, we cruised around

1026
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 2: and h and we did talk, and we did have

1027
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:50,400
Speaker 2: big gatherings up there, you know, Christmas, New Year's and

1028
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 2: various other things. No, we we talked a lot. Okay,

1029
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 2: there'd be people traveling just to say hi or to

1030
00:54:56,719 --> 00:55:01,320
Speaker 2: share some meat or or whatever. But there was discussion.

1031
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 2: Everybody uniformly said there's no way he can make it

1032
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 2: to Chalikisik. But there were those that said he probably

1033
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 2: waved somebody down an airplane, but we didn't have hardly

1034
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:15,279
Speaker 2: any airplanes ever go by us there. And some people thought, well,

1035
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:17,480
Speaker 2: maybe he went up a little bit and then walked

1036
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 2: around Fred's place and got onto the river and walked

1037
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:23,479
Speaker 2: a circle or or whatever, you know, and it's like, no,

1038
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:24,880
Speaker 2: we pay attention to.

1039
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:25,880
Speaker 1: Tracks, you know.

1040
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 2: It's living out in the woods in the snow country.

1041
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 2: You're always looking at tracks. There's nothing that gets by

1042
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:36,799
Speaker 2: you tracks. And so we were like, nah, he's got

1043
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:39,800
Speaker 2: to be dead, you know. And so the next spring.

1044
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:45,280
Speaker 2: So so the Candic River is great in the fall,

1045
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:49,759
Speaker 2: has lots of moose and other you know, bears and

1046
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:52,239
Speaker 2: things like that. But in the springtime the Yukon is

1047
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:55,360
Speaker 2: the place to be because there's the flyway, you know,

1048
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 2: you get all the waterfowl coming into Alaska's going by there.

1049
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:03,040
Speaker 2: And then there's these big south facing bluffs on the

1050
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 2: on the mountains that butt up against the Yukon, and

1051
00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:10,480
Speaker 2: they call them step Community, you know, because they're just

1052
00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:11,240
Speaker 2: at that angle.

1053
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:13,080
Speaker 1: They'll drain all.

1054
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:17,359
Speaker 2: Their snow really early in March sometimes and you get

1055
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:21,359
Speaker 2: all this new growth coming out, even though everywhere else,

1056
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 2: you know, there's still three feet of snow laying around

1057
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:26,640
Speaker 2: and the bears would come out early there. So it

1058
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:29,319
Speaker 2: was the Yukon was the place to be in the

1059
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:33,759
Speaker 2: spring feeding yourself. And so that left me with my

1060
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:36,960
Speaker 2: canoe up at my upper place at thirty miles up,

1061
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 2: and so I would have to walk the ridge and

1062
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:42,399
Speaker 2: down and then canoe down to get my canoe back

1063
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:44,839
Speaker 2: in the spring. So that's what me and Fred did.

1064
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 2: We went up and walked in and get my canoe

1065
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 2: and we're coming down and when we come to where

1066
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:53,799
Speaker 2: this cabin is back in the woods, we'd come around

1067
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:56,719
Speaker 2: this corner. I see my snow shoes hanging in a

1068
00:56:56,760 --> 00:57:00,480
Speaker 2: tree right there. We're a couple of hundred yards up

1069
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:00,799
Speaker 2: the river.

1070
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:01,040
Speaker 1: You know.

1071
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:04,319
Speaker 2: He came around and I say, Fred, somem eagel's here

1072
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 2: and he's not alive. And we get up there, and

1073
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:11,320
Speaker 2: he knew he wasn't alive. Well, he couldn't have been alive.

1074
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 2: We didn't have any food.

1075
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:14,960
Speaker 7: There, and the snowshoes were still there.

1076
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:16,760
Speaker 2: And the snow shoes were there. He didn't walk away,

1077
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:19,480
Speaker 2: and so we get up there. We got five dogs,

1078
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 2: Okay I had three and Spread had two at that time,

1079
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 2: all in the canoe with you no, they're running the pad.

1080
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 1: Oh, I see, okay, they're just keeping up. Yeah.

1081
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:30,560
Speaker 2: And so we get there and walk up to the

1082
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:33,240
Speaker 2: cabin and the dogs are all running around, you know,

1083
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:37,920
Speaker 2: and they are just really they they focus on dead things, right,

1084
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 2: they really like you know, if you shoot a bear

1085
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:42,680
Speaker 2: out of a tree or get a moose, you know,

1086
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:44,920
Speaker 2: they want to be there. It's just like that's the

1087
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:49,400
Speaker 2: thing of interest. So so so I opened the door,

1088
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:52,240
Speaker 2: and of course I knock on it, just in case.

1089
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:58,480
Speaker 2: But and and there's this sleeping bag on the bunk.

1090
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:00,960
Speaker 2: The bunk had been nine feet long and three feet wide,

1091
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:04,640
Speaker 2: and it was just these little black spruce back and

1092
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:07,920
Speaker 2: forth begins, back and forth, and then uh, you know,

1093
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:10,840
Speaker 2: on on two poles that were notched into the walls,

1094
00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:15,160
Speaker 2: and so and so all of those poles except about

1095
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:17,560
Speaker 2: three feet of them had been burned. Had he had

1096
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:20,160
Speaker 2: a saw in the in the house. And so I

1097
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:22,479
Speaker 2: picked him up, and he was light, and I brought

1098
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:23,160
Speaker 2: him outside.

1099
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:25,560
Speaker 1: He was he's in his bag. Yeah, he's in his bag.

1100
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 2: And so we we took him out in Fred's bag,

1101
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 2: Fred's bag, and and uh and it was it was

1102
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 2: he was so skinny as his eyes were sunken into

1103
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:41,560
Speaker 2: his face, and and we took his clothes off because

1104
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 2: we just wanted to see what had happened there. And

1105
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:47,960
Speaker 2: he was seriously skin on bone.

1106
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:49,240
Speaker 1: There was no meat.

1107
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:53,760
Speaker 2: He had starved out and h and the twenty two

1108
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:56,440
Speaker 2: was hanging on a nail in the back wall. And

1109
00:58:56,480 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 2: so he definitely didn't kill himself. And and the dogs

1110
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:04,280
Speaker 2: they were like twenty feet away looking the other way.

1111
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:07,280
Speaker 2: They wanted nothing to do with this. Wow, you can

1112
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:09,200
Speaker 2: see their ears are turned back to us, so they

1113
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:11,840
Speaker 2: were paying attention, but they didn't want to be anywhere

1114
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:14,480
Speaker 2: near it. Was almost like, you know, one of the

1115
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:16,720
Speaker 2: what we were thinking was that one of the gods

1116
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:19,520
Speaker 2: has fallen, you know, And because I don't know what

1117
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:22,480
Speaker 2: they think of us, but I think that maybe what

1118
00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 2: the dogs, yeah, yeah, oh that's interesting. They didn't want

1119
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 2: nothing to do with it. They want to be near it.

1120
00:59:28,120 --> 00:59:31,360
Speaker 2: They didn't want to smell it, close nothing, And so

1121
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:32,800
Speaker 2: we we.

1122
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:34,800
Speaker 1: How long at that point, how long you think he'd

1123
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:35,280
Speaker 1: been dead?

1124
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:40,520
Speaker 2: I really don't know. Was he froze he had been frozen,

1125
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:44,200
Speaker 2: but he was thought then and hair was starting to

1126
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:51,440
Speaker 2: slip on his forehead, but he didn't smell rotten, and

1127
00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:55,680
Speaker 2: and so and so we were thinking, what do we

1128
00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:58,160
Speaker 2: do with this guy? You know, we don't have a shovel,

1129
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:03,160
Speaker 2: the ground's still frozen. We can't bury him. Do we

1130
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:06,720
Speaker 2: try to take him somewhere? Do we take him to Circle?

1131
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:10,040
Speaker 2: That would be at least a three or four day

1132
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:14,480
Speaker 2: process to get down there. The Yukon was packed with

1133
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:16,800
Speaker 2: ice on both sides at that point in time, you know,

1134
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:18,920
Speaker 2: break up it put a bunch of ice on the banks.

1135
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:24,200
Speaker 2: Neither of us had a penny, and we were making

1136
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:27,520
Speaker 2: our living day by day going down the river, and

1137
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:32,480
Speaker 2: if we went down to Circle, we didn't know anywhere

1138
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:36,040
Speaker 2: where there would be where to go for food, whether

1139
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:38,400
Speaker 2: we could get him down there without him. You know,

1140
01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:41,120
Speaker 2: we thought we could put ice in, have him in

1141
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:45,120
Speaker 2: the bottom of the boat with ice, but that would

1142
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:47,040
Speaker 2: put us out because we would get down there and

1143
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:49,600
Speaker 2: we wouldn't We'd have nothing, no way to make a living.

1144
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:54,600
Speaker 2: And so we just decided we're to leave him here,

1145
01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:57,240
Speaker 2: and we put him back on some tundra a little

1146
01:00:57,240 --> 01:01:02,280
Speaker 2: ways away, and we took off and then he was

1147
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:04,960
Speaker 2: I went back there later in the summer and he

1148
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:05,520
Speaker 2: was gone.

1149
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:09,040
Speaker 7: So something did you guys eventually get word out to

1150
01:01:09,160 --> 01:01:10,520
Speaker 7: like some authority.

1151
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:14,320
Speaker 2: We told people that there wasn't anything anybody could do.

1152
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:16,080
Speaker 2: We didn't know who he was.

1153
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 3: As far as you know, has he ever been identified?

1154
01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:20,480
Speaker 1: I have no idea.

1155
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:24,720
Speaker 7: Probably probably a lot of people.

1156
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:26,320
Speaker 1: That happened to a lot of people up there.

1157
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:30,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I don't think he was out there because

1158
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:31,880
Speaker 6: he wanted to stay in touch with his family.

1159
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:35,120
Speaker 4: Right, So we should probably skip forward to what a

1160
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 4: fellow does when he gets lonely and he figures he's

1161
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:44,240
Speaker 4: gonna need a companion out in this life. Could on this, Yeah,

1162
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:46,920
Speaker 4: because otherwise we are going to be here all day,

1163
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:50,200
Speaker 4: which is fine with me. I'll just cancel a couple

1164
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:51,120
Speaker 4: upcoming calls.

1165
01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:57,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, no, I mean that's that's amazing. I mean, if

1166
01:01:57,640 --> 01:01:59,439
Speaker 6: you guys thought about it that much, I think it's

1167
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:01,080
Speaker 6: longer than I I would have thought about it. It

1168
01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:04,160
Speaker 6: would have been like, well, hopefully at twenty two isn't rusted.

1169
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:08,560
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, we used the sleeping bag.

1170
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:10,280
Speaker 2: Fred took the sleeping bag.

1171
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:13,680
Speaker 7: No, yeah, you got your snowshoes.

1172
01:02:13,880 --> 01:02:15,000
Speaker 1: I got my snow shoes.

1173
01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:18,840
Speaker 6: I was just thinking too, like, if he was that emaciated,

1174
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:22,480
Speaker 6: had you guys found him alive, probably wouldn't be anything

1175
01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:23,480
Speaker 6: you could have done for him.

1176
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:27,080
Speaker 1: I think that would be hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1177
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:31,960
Speaker 1: Where did you wind up? You eventually found your territory?

1178
01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:34,880
Speaker 1: So did your whole time in the bush wind up

1179
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:39,800
Speaker 1: being in this river system that you're talking about now? Yeah? Okay, yeah,

1180
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:42,200
Speaker 1: and eventually got to where it like Johannie was saying,

1181
01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:44,120
Speaker 1: eventually got to where you wanted a companion.

1182
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:45,520
Speaker 2: That's absolutely true.

1183
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:47,560
Speaker 6: The dogs weren't cutting it.

1184
01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:50,520
Speaker 2: Dogs weren't cutting it. Well, they were great, but it

1185
01:02:50,560 --> 01:02:57,120
Speaker 2: wasn't the same. Yeah. Yeah, and uh, and I wasn't

1186
01:02:57,240 --> 01:03:00,120
Speaker 2: running into uh, single women out there?

1187
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:02,680
Speaker 7: How many How many years have you been doing it

1188
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:06,200
Speaker 7: before you decided ahead into the Fairbanks?

1189
01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:14,160
Speaker 1: I think? Uh? I think three? Okay, so you're still young. Yeah.

1190
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:16,720
Speaker 4: Were there some couples out there or was it mostly

1191
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:18,000
Speaker 4: single men doing this thing?

1192
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:18,160
Speaker 5: No?

1193
01:03:18,240 --> 01:03:22,080
Speaker 2: There were couples out there. There were, yeah, yeah, most

1194
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:25,160
Speaker 2: most of the other people out there were couples. Oh

1195
01:03:25,200 --> 01:03:29,560
Speaker 2: I see, yeah? They would they your third wheel? Well

1196
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:34,360
Speaker 2: not really. I wasn't there. I was the one wheel.

1197
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:36,600
Speaker 9: When you say most of the people out there, like,

1198
01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:38,000
Speaker 9: how many people were we talking about?

1199
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:40,880
Speaker 2: There were about twenty people or so that lived between uh,

1200
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:45,480
Speaker 2: Eagle and Circle, okay, yeah. And how many miles it

1201
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:48,600
Speaker 2: verid one hundred and sixty miles okay, yeah.

1202
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:51,080
Speaker 9: And how often would you see like, how long would

1203
01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:52,400
Speaker 9: you go without seeing people?

1204
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:57,400
Speaker 2: Well, so when I was up the Candy it would

1205
01:03:57,440 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 2: be months.

1206
01:03:58,840 --> 01:03:59,800
Speaker 1: Oh really yeah.

1207
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:04,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, my father he came out to visit the first

1208
01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:06,840
Speaker 2: year that I was out there, that I spent on

1209
01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:08,880
Speaker 2: the Candic River, so I'd been out on the North

1210
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:12,160
Speaker 2: Fork at forty mile. And it was funny because he

1211
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:16,200
Speaker 2: was he was working for park Service. He got he

1212
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:19,280
Speaker 2: was a historian down in Southwest Region out of Santa

1213
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:22,080
Speaker 2: Fe for a while, and then he got offered a

1214
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:24,920
Speaker 2: job in Alaska to deal with the d two Lands,

1215
01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:28,680
Speaker 2: which became the Parklands. He was park Service, so that's

1216
01:04:28,720 --> 01:04:31,000
Speaker 2: what he dealt with. And he was up in Eagle

1217
01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:37,120
Speaker 2: dealing with stuff relating to the Yukon what became the

1218
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:42,400
Speaker 2: Yukon Charlie Preserve, and he got buried in effigy there

1219
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:45,720
Speaker 2: by somebody because the Eagle did not like it that

1220
01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:49,080
Speaker 2: the federal lands were coming around. But you know, they

1221
01:04:49,120 --> 01:04:50,960
Speaker 2: were kind of laid out in statehood and they were

1222
01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:53,680
Speaker 2: laid out in the native flames.

1223
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:54,840
Speaker 7: That your dad ended up like right in.

1224
01:04:54,880 --> 01:04:57,760
Speaker 2: Near you, So I didn't I had no idea he

1225
01:04:57,800 --> 01:04:59,680
Speaker 2: was there. But when Little John and I had gone

1226
01:04:59,840 --> 01:05:02,760
Speaker 2: up and gotten the traps everything we were, we were

1227
01:05:03,640 --> 01:05:06,880
Speaker 2: at our canoes ready to shove off, and my dad

1228
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:11,080
Speaker 2: pulls up right and he says, he says, Randy, where

1229
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:12,880
Speaker 2: are you at now? I said, well, up in Indian

1230
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:15,160
Speaker 2: Grave Creek. That's one of the tributaries of the Candick.

1231
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:18,000
Speaker 2: And and I was sixty miles up the Candick and

1232
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:19,720
Speaker 2: that was the cabin I was going to be staying in.

1233
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:23,200
Speaker 2: And he says, he says, I'm going to come and

1234
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:27,200
Speaker 2: visit you for Christmas. And when I say, fine, you know,

1235
01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:30,400
Speaker 2: and we took off and he took off and and

1236
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:33,560
Speaker 2: come come that time of year. So I didn't have

1237
01:05:33,560 --> 01:05:35,840
Speaker 2: a calendar or watch or anything, you know, out there,

1238
01:05:35,880 --> 01:05:38,240
Speaker 2: so I don't really know when that was going to be.

1239
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:42,880
Speaker 2: But Little John had been at the at the lower

1240
01:05:42,920 --> 01:05:45,120
Speaker 2: cabin near the near the past to the Yukon, and

1241
01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:47,280
Speaker 2: he he had he had made a trip over there

1242
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:50,040
Speaker 2: and found out they were doing a big Christmas shindig

1243
01:05:50,120 --> 01:05:51,360
Speaker 2: at this one place.

1244
01:05:51,160 --> 01:05:53,640
Speaker 1: On a lake beside the Yukon.

1245
01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:57,280
Speaker 2: So he came up to get me, and I said,

1246
01:05:57,440 --> 01:05:59,720
Speaker 2: I said, I can't, I can't go. What if my

1247
01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:02,400
Speaker 2: dad comes, He says, he's not going to come, that's

1248
01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:04,000
Speaker 2: you know, how's he going to get up.

1249
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:04,800
Speaker 1: Here, you know?

1250
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:07,800
Speaker 2: And I said, it would be horrible if he came

1251
01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:08,600
Speaker 2: and I wasn't here.

1252
01:06:08,680 --> 01:06:09,400
Speaker 1: So I stayed.

1253
01:06:09,560 --> 01:06:12,080
Speaker 2: I was getting caribou, and I was the only one

1254
01:06:12,120 --> 01:06:13,600
Speaker 2: getting caribou out there at the time.

1255
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:14,800
Speaker 1: And so.

1256
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:21,040
Speaker 2: Little John leaves and goes over to this party, and

1257
01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:23,920
Speaker 2: and I'm hauling caribou in from a place that I

1258
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:27,920
Speaker 2: had gotten a few and at the time, the the

1259
01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:31,280
Speaker 2: limit was no more than ten a day, no more

1260
01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:37,320
Speaker 2: than no more than ten a day. And and so

1261
01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:41,240
Speaker 2: anyway I'm hauling. I'm hauling this caribou back and uh

1262
01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:44,560
Speaker 2: with the dogs. And I hear this airplane come in

1263
01:06:44,680 --> 01:06:47,640
Speaker 2: and circle around and land. And it was it was

1264
01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:52,120
Speaker 2: Ron Warblow who ran They had an air service out

1265
01:06:52,120 --> 01:06:54,760
Speaker 2: of Toke and he was in a one eighty five

1266
01:06:55,360 --> 01:06:58,920
Speaker 2: on skis, and Ron was not going to leave him

1267
01:06:58,920 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 2: be at my place unless it was warm and fresh tracks,

1268
01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:07,320
Speaker 2: you know, and which there was. So I come back.

1269
01:07:07,520 --> 01:07:10,520
Speaker 2: I hear that plane leave, and I come back and uh,

1270
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:14,760
Speaker 2: and my dad is there and he he has a

1271
01:07:14,880 --> 01:07:18,840
Speaker 2: number ten can of cookies and and uh a thing

1272
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:20,960
Speaker 2: of cough drops. And he didn't bring any other food.

1273
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:23,600
Speaker 2: He thought I had a bunch of food. I've got

1274
01:07:23,720 --> 01:07:27,840
Speaker 2: just moose, moose fat, moose meat and caribou meat, and

1275
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:31,720
Speaker 2: that's it. And I had no coffee, no tea, no nothing. Right,

1276
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:34,120
Speaker 2: And he's he's going to try to quit smoking.

1277
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:37,120
Speaker 1: So he's got you have salt. I had salt.

1278
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:42,520
Speaker 2: And and so so he has he has Copenhagen because

1279
01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:45,520
Speaker 2: he'd been a smoker pretty much all all his life

1280
01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:48,160
Speaker 2: that I had known him. And uh, so he has

1281
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:51,520
Speaker 2: Copenhagen there to try to ease things up. Well, he

1282
01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:54,200
Speaker 2: had he had a few different things he was dealing with.

1283
01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:57,320
Speaker 2: One and you know, they eating just meat and uh,

1284
01:07:57,440 --> 01:07:59,200
Speaker 2: and all I would do is fry it in a

1285
01:07:59,240 --> 01:08:02,200
Speaker 2: pan and then eat right out of the pan and

1286
01:08:02,200 --> 01:08:04,160
Speaker 2: and uh and then go dip.

1287
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:06,200
Speaker 1: Buckets of water. So I had. I had water and

1288
01:08:07,240 --> 01:08:08,920
Speaker 1: meat and fat. That's what I was eating.

1289
01:08:09,200 --> 01:08:13,360
Speaker 2: And then for light, I had a moose fat candle,

1290
01:08:13,560 --> 01:08:16,519
Speaker 2: you know, an old like a tuna fish can with

1291
01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:18,800
Speaker 2: a with a bent piece in it and a bit

1292
01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:22,320
Speaker 2: of old levi as the wick. And you'd have to

1293
01:08:22,320 --> 01:08:25,439
Speaker 2: set it on a stove. You'd have to set it

1294
01:08:25,479 --> 01:08:27,160
Speaker 2: on the stove to melt it, and then you could

1295
01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:30,000
Speaker 2: light it and it would keep going mostly and uh

1296
01:08:30,760 --> 01:08:33,640
Speaker 2: and give off just a candle a candle light. So

1297
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:38,000
Speaker 2: that was my light. And so he he ended up

1298
01:08:38,400 --> 01:08:40,840
Speaker 2: he ended up asking me to carve him a pipe

1299
01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:44,599
Speaker 2: at one point and because he's going to start smoking

1300
01:08:44,640 --> 01:08:48,599
Speaker 2: his Copenhagen because it wasn't it wasn't it wasn't doing

1301
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:49,320
Speaker 2: enough for him.

1302
01:08:49,920 --> 01:08:52,880
Speaker 1: But when people do that move, when they do the

1303
01:08:53,360 --> 01:08:57,840
Speaker 1: when they do like the they're going to quit something, yeah,

1304
01:08:57,920 --> 01:08:59,719
Speaker 1: and they're gonna be like, well, I'm gonna take advantage

1305
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:04,400
Speaker 1: of this remote or out of the country thing. Yeah,

1306
01:09:04,520 --> 01:09:07,000
Speaker 1: they never fixed, but they never they never factor.

1307
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:08,000
Speaker 3: In the people that are around them.

1308
01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:09,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know.

1309
01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:12,280
Speaker 1: And then they going like, well, I decided I'm gonna

1310
01:09:12,360 --> 01:09:15,599
Speaker 1: quit drinking. Yeah, you know, I'm gonna quit smoking while

1311
01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:17,000
Speaker 1: you and me are away from that.

1312
01:09:17,680 --> 01:09:21,120
Speaker 6: I just talked to an outfitter who they had to

1313
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:24,760
Speaker 6: fly a guy out really yeah, dts because he's like,

1314
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:27,160
Speaker 6: this is the perfect opportunity for me to stop drinking.

1315
01:09:27,280 --> 01:09:28,280
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly.

1316
01:09:28,720 --> 01:09:28,920
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1317
01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:32,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I bet those cookies your dad brought were good. Oh,

1318
01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:38,680
Speaker 2: we finished them immediately. Up, I had, I had, you know,

1319
01:09:38,760 --> 01:09:42,280
Speaker 2: I was adapted to the meat at that point in

1320
01:09:42,360 --> 01:09:45,439
Speaker 2: time to just meet. But I still enjoyed some other things,

1321
01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:48,960
Speaker 2: you know, And so yeah, I gobbled him down.

1322
01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:52,920
Speaker 1: Did you ever lose your salt tolerance? Like, did you

1323
01:09:52,960 --> 01:09:54,880
Speaker 1: ever lose did you ever get to the point where

1324
01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:57,160
Speaker 1: you didn't even want salt on the meat? No, you

1325
01:09:57,320 --> 01:10:00,559
Speaker 1: just wanted it salted. Yeah, I like it salted.

1326
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:03,759
Speaker 3: Have you read Stephenson's My Life with the Eskimo?

1327
01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:07,600
Speaker 1: Absolutely? Yeah. When they would go when they would go

1328
01:10:07,640 --> 01:10:11,120
Speaker 1: into these in with these groups and with these Eskimo hunting,

1329
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:15,800
Speaker 1: they would find it to keep your supplies from getting diminished,

1330
01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:20,680
Speaker 1: they would salt everything because they hated salt. Oh, that

1331
01:10:20,840 --> 01:10:23,680
Speaker 1: was a protective measure against him. Yeah, so you'd have

1332
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:26,920
Speaker 1: your stash of food, right, they would just salt it. Yeah,

1333
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:28,679
Speaker 1: and then no one would touch it because they salted

1334
01:10:28,720 --> 01:10:31,160
Speaker 1: it because they had They didn't do they didn't do

1335
01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:32,040
Speaker 1: dietary salt.

1336
01:10:32,439 --> 01:10:33,200
Speaker 4: Eskimo didn't.

1337
01:10:33,280 --> 01:10:35,680
Speaker 1: No, he says, if you salted meat, they don't want

1338
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:36,280
Speaker 1: nothing to do with it.

1339
01:10:36,400 --> 01:10:40,040
Speaker 6: Don't you think they were getting salt from seal fat.

1340
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:41,880
Speaker 1: And they weren't using it. They weren't using it as

1341
01:10:41,880 --> 01:10:44,240
Speaker 1: a seasoning. You know, if you eat a fish out

1342
01:10:44,240 --> 01:10:45,400
Speaker 1: of the ocean, he's not salty.

1343
01:10:46,200 --> 01:10:49,679
Speaker 6: No, but right, just your body chemistry, don't you need

1344
01:10:49,720 --> 01:10:51,960
Speaker 6: like a certain amount of yeah?

1345
01:10:52,240 --> 01:10:55,439
Speaker 1: Right, So he mentions it like multiple times that just

1346
01:10:55,479 --> 01:10:58,040
Speaker 1: they don't want salt, and then he he eventually arrived.

1347
01:10:58,120 --> 01:11:01,200
Speaker 1: Stephenson arrives at a point because he has to go

1348
01:11:01,280 --> 01:11:03,320
Speaker 1: without for months and months they run out of salt.

1349
01:11:03,400 --> 01:11:06,160
Speaker 1: He goes months about salt eventually and then gets where

1350
01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:08,280
Speaker 1: it ruins it for him. He doesn't want any kind

1351
01:11:08,280 --> 01:11:10,640
Speaker 1: of salt on his food, and he talks about it

1352
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:14,960
Speaker 1: being like a it's a learned that that eating all

1353
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:19,000
Speaker 1: that salt is learned. It's a learned taste, and you

1354
01:11:19,080 --> 01:11:20,920
Speaker 1: get if you go without it for a couple of

1355
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:23,920
Speaker 1: years or whatever, you don't you can't eat salty meat anymore.

1356
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:28,679
Speaker 3: That's what he says. He was wrong about a few things.

1357
01:11:29,640 --> 01:11:34,160
Speaker 2: So he did mention that that they considered polar bear

1358
01:11:34,360 --> 01:11:37,760
Speaker 2: liver to be toxic, that you couldn't.

1359
01:11:37,400 --> 01:11:40,280
Speaker 1: Eat it without toxic amounts of vitamin A. Yeah, that's

1360
01:11:40,320 --> 01:11:42,680
Speaker 1: a widely held belief. Is that not true?

1361
01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:45,439
Speaker 2: I think it is true, so, but it's also true

1362
01:11:45,479 --> 01:11:49,679
Speaker 2: for grizzlies. So me and little Giant at one point,

1363
01:11:49,720 --> 01:11:54,240
Speaker 2: after eating tried moosse meat for a week, we ended

1364
01:11:54,320 --> 01:11:58,719
Speaker 2: up getting a grizzly and and cut him up, and

1365
01:11:59,080 --> 01:12:03,560
Speaker 2: we're frying heart, liver, and kidney in a full panload,

1366
01:12:03,800 --> 01:12:07,000
Speaker 2: and we both got headaches that just pounded us for

1367
01:12:07,080 --> 01:12:07,840
Speaker 2: a couple of days.

1368
01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:09,559
Speaker 1: We couldn't get up.

1369
01:12:09,880 --> 01:12:13,040
Speaker 2: And I think it was vitamin A poisoning, no kidding, Yeah,

1370
01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:16,280
Speaker 2: And so I think that it's not just polar bear,

1371
01:12:16,520 --> 01:12:18,320
Speaker 2: but it's the predator livers.

1372
01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:21,960
Speaker 6: Did you get that grizz with the two forty three?

1373
01:12:22,040 --> 01:12:28,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that was your gun. Huh yeah, yeah, talk

1374
01:12:28,720 --> 01:12:31,160
Speaker 1: about I'm not trying to move you along. I'm just curious.

1375
01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:34,120
Speaker 1: How old are you when you decided that I'm going

1376
01:12:34,160 --> 01:12:35,360
Speaker 1: to make a go of it and I need a

1377
01:12:35,360 --> 01:12:38,360
Speaker 1: wife and kids. Well, so.

1378
01:12:40,040 --> 01:12:42,439
Speaker 2: I must have been I must have been twenty or

1379
01:12:42,479 --> 01:12:45,960
Speaker 2: twenty one when I decided I was going to make

1380
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:52,559
Speaker 2: a concerted effort to find a woman. I So I

1381
01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:57,280
Speaker 2: built a raft and I floated down to Circle and

1382
01:12:57,360 --> 01:13:01,400
Speaker 2: I hitchhiked into Fairbanks. I had been at the university

1383
01:13:01,439 --> 01:13:04,120
Speaker 2: for one semester, so I knew there was these personal things,

1384
01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:07,439
Speaker 2: so I left a personal note on there. I don't

1385
01:13:07,479 --> 01:13:09,559
Speaker 2: know exactly what it says right now, but it was

1386
01:13:10,360 --> 01:13:11,360
Speaker 2: something about it traffic.

1387
01:13:11,680 --> 01:13:15,720
Speaker 1: You made a raft go to circle hitchhike the Fairbanks

1388
01:13:15,720 --> 01:13:17,400
Speaker 1: and then make it like a like a little flyer

1389
01:13:17,439 --> 01:13:18,040
Speaker 1: for yourself.

1390
01:13:18,120 --> 01:13:21,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, with a little tear offf to advertising.

1391
01:13:21,160 --> 01:13:22,759
Speaker 1: No, there were no tear offf taps.

1392
01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:26,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that was my first attempt.

1393
01:13:26,600 --> 01:13:27,760
Speaker 3: Oh you know, you know what's the.

1394
01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:31,880
Speaker 1: Cutest thing in the world is uh uh Paul's daughter

1395
01:13:32,200 --> 01:13:36,600
Speaker 1: Paul and Jen's daughter Brooke at the Mediator store downtown.

1396
01:13:36,840 --> 01:13:38,480
Speaker 1: She's got a tear OFFF tab.

1397
01:13:40,280 --> 01:13:41,120
Speaker 3: That was bummed dear dad.

1398
01:13:41,360 --> 01:13:42,840
Speaker 1: Only one thing was tore off, So I don't know

1399
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:44,400
Speaker 1: if it was there that long I was.

1400
01:13:44,360 --> 01:13:47,160
Speaker 3: Gonna tear a couple. Maybe it was just to make

1401
01:13:47,200 --> 01:13:48,040
Speaker 3: it look a little hotter.

1402
01:13:48,160 --> 01:13:51,400
Speaker 6: Well, maybe that's representative of folks not killing stuff walking

1403
01:13:51,439 --> 01:13:52,400
Speaker 6: into the Mediator store.

1404
01:13:52,640 --> 01:13:54,360
Speaker 1: Well, could be that, or it could be that the

1405
01:13:54,880 --> 01:14:00,479
Speaker 1: social media is her preferred mode too. Yeah, he make

1406
01:14:00,520 --> 01:14:01,840
Speaker 1: an ad say so.

1407
01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:03,840
Speaker 2: Not only that, but I had a dog with me

1408
01:14:03,960 --> 01:14:06,479
Speaker 2: and a rifle, so I had a double strap rifle,

1409
01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:09,280
Speaker 2: right and just because then it's like a little backpack.

1410
01:14:09,439 --> 01:14:13,200
Speaker 2: I gotcha, And that's how I carry my rifle to

1411
01:14:13,200 --> 01:14:17,880
Speaker 2: this day. And then the dog had a dog pack,

1412
01:14:18,439 --> 01:14:20,400
Speaker 2: and so what we did is we would walk down

1413
01:14:20,400 --> 01:14:22,280
Speaker 2: the road and I would shoot. It was big rabbit

1414
01:14:22,360 --> 01:14:24,760
Speaker 2: year then, and I would shoot rabbits on the road

1415
01:14:25,400 --> 01:14:28,880
Speaker 2: and for our food as well as hitchhiking. Finally got

1416
01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:31,400
Speaker 2: a ride all the way to Fairbanks, and then ended

1417
01:14:31,479 --> 01:14:35,679
Speaker 2: up getting a ride on the other route going to Eagle,

1418
01:14:35,920 --> 01:14:39,320
Speaker 2: and then built another raft and came down down river

1419
01:14:39,439 --> 01:14:42,839
Speaker 2: from Eagle. In fact that was I ended up stopping

1420
01:14:42,880 --> 01:14:47,240
Speaker 2: at Dick Cook's place and in the spring that year,

1421
01:14:47,280 --> 01:14:51,559
Speaker 2: and he wanted to go hunting sheep, and so we

1422
01:14:51,640 --> 01:14:53,960
Speaker 2: took off into the mountains there and he gave me

1423
01:14:54,800 --> 01:14:59,200
Speaker 2: a two fifty seven robberts that he had and with

1424
01:14:59,439 --> 01:15:03,120
Speaker 2: different he had different bullets loaded up for different purposes.

1425
01:15:03,200 --> 01:15:06,160
Speaker 2: Right there was you know, for a moose load, or

1426
01:15:06,200 --> 01:15:08,320
Speaker 2: to a goose load, or to you know, all these

1427
01:15:08,360 --> 01:15:12,320
Speaker 2: different things. So he's got like five shells and and

1428
01:15:12,560 --> 01:15:16,280
Speaker 2: we go up after sheep and uh, and I get

1429
01:15:16,280 --> 01:15:19,680
Speaker 2: a shot at this uh, this big ram and it

1430
01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:23,120
Speaker 2: uh and it was a poof and there's this bit

1431
01:15:23,160 --> 01:15:28,559
Speaker 2: of sleeping bag fiber that comes out of it. So

1432
01:15:28,600 --> 01:15:33,840
Speaker 2: it's a download, right, but it hits him in both elbows, boom,

1433
01:15:33,880 --> 01:15:34,479
Speaker 2: and he's down.

1434
01:15:35,280 --> 01:15:37,680
Speaker 4: And what's a download?

1435
01:15:38,400 --> 01:15:40,920
Speaker 6: Like a bird shot load type of deals. He was

1436
01:15:41,040 --> 01:15:43,640
Speaker 6: using the ticking for wadding.

1437
01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:44,479
Speaker 1: Is that right?

1438
01:15:45,320 --> 01:15:47,760
Speaker 2: That's right, so you you're not putting near as much

1439
01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:51,720
Speaker 2: powder in and so it's a slower so it's a

1440
01:15:51,720 --> 01:15:54,240
Speaker 2: bullet that's not gonna I mean we did that for

1441
01:15:54,320 --> 01:15:56,880
Speaker 2: squirrels and grouse too. You know, we used full metal

1442
01:15:56,960 --> 01:15:58,320
Speaker 2: jacket in two forty three.

1443
01:15:58,200 --> 01:16:00,160
Speaker 1: And you just stuff the exit, you just fill the

1444
01:16:00,160 --> 01:16:02,559
Speaker 1: excess space was down, Yeah, because if.

1445
01:16:02,479 --> 01:16:05,559
Speaker 2: It's laying there and the powder is just spread across

1446
01:16:05,640 --> 01:16:09,240
Speaker 2: the bottom, it can they say it can? It can

1447
01:16:09,600 --> 01:16:15,280
Speaker 2: back back pressure? Okay, But but Dick had not kept trying.

1448
01:16:15,320 --> 01:16:17,519
Speaker 2: This is a smiegel, you know, with all his things.

1449
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:19,040
Speaker 2: That's what we would have run into if we just

1450
01:16:19,040 --> 01:16:21,880
Speaker 2: started using those. But he had assured me. Dick had

1451
01:16:21,880 --> 01:16:24,959
Speaker 2: assured me that these were all big loads, which they weren't.

1452
01:16:25,280 --> 01:16:28,640
Speaker 2: So this ram gets up on his back legs. I

1453
01:16:28,640 --> 01:16:30,559
Speaker 2: don't know how he got up and ran on two

1454
01:16:30,640 --> 01:16:33,519
Speaker 2: legs over the edge, and Dick ended up dispatching.

1455
01:16:33,040 --> 01:16:34,200
Speaker 1: Him down the hill a little bit.

1456
01:16:34,880 --> 01:16:41,080
Speaker 2: But but but that was that was a crazy situation there.

1457
01:16:41,200 --> 01:16:43,679
Speaker 2: But but then I got in my raft again after

1458
01:16:44,160 --> 01:16:46,320
Speaker 2: after we had come down off of the mountains.

1459
01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:49,240
Speaker 1: Dick, how long? How long was the sheep hunt? One day?

1460
01:16:49,360 --> 01:16:51,360
Speaker 6: I got to tell you, this is the most interested

1461
01:16:51,400 --> 01:16:53,639
Speaker 6: I've been in getting the lady story in a long time.

1462
01:16:54,479 --> 01:16:57,280
Speaker 3: And meanwhile you've set your trap. You baited the trap

1463
01:16:57,320 --> 01:16:58,080
Speaker 3: with this note.

1464
01:16:58,600 --> 01:17:03,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I never got any. My male address was Poba

1465
01:17:05,040 --> 01:17:08,840
Speaker 2: General Delivery Eagle, right, and I never got anything. So

1466
01:17:08,920 --> 01:17:10,920
Speaker 2: that was a failed What did the note say, though,

1467
01:17:12,800 --> 01:17:16,120
Speaker 2: trapper living up on the Yukon is uh seeking a woman?

1468
01:17:16,240 --> 01:17:17,400
Speaker 2: I think something like that.

1469
01:17:18,560 --> 01:17:21,799
Speaker 1: Nothing about any kind of criteria young and handsome trapper?

1470
01:17:23,280 --> 01:17:24,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, he said, yeah.

1471
01:17:24,760 --> 01:17:25,559
Speaker 6: Twenty one years old.

1472
01:17:25,600 --> 01:17:28,000
Speaker 1: You didn't put anything about like like, you didn't put

1473
01:17:28,000 --> 01:17:31,160
Speaker 1: down any parameters that you were hoping to like achieve here,

1474
01:17:31,439 --> 01:17:34,760
Speaker 1: I did not. No, did you put your age down?

1475
01:17:35,240 --> 01:17:38,320
Speaker 2: I don't think I did. I think See, it was

1476
01:17:38,360 --> 01:17:40,600
Speaker 2: a failed attempt. Okay, it was my first attempt. But

1477
01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:41,439
Speaker 2: it was a failed attempt.

1478
01:17:41,479 --> 01:17:43,720
Speaker 7: Let's hear about the successful one.

1479
01:17:44,479 --> 01:17:49,439
Speaker 2: So so I went in again the next summer and

1480
01:17:49,520 --> 01:17:52,519
Speaker 2: so but but there's a there's a problem, you know,

1481
01:17:52,560 --> 01:17:55,800
Speaker 2: to get to to have a develop a relationship. You know,

1482
01:17:55,840 --> 01:17:57,720
Speaker 2: I was going to have to move into Fairbanks and

1483
01:17:57,720 --> 01:18:01,520
Speaker 2: get a job and and everything and then.

1484
01:18:00,000 --> 01:18:02,800
Speaker 1: And and I just couldn't do that.

1485
01:18:02,960 --> 01:18:05,360
Speaker 2: You know, you're going to miss you know, the King

1486
01:18:05,439 --> 01:18:07,400
Speaker 2: Salmon Sea's in, you were going to miss and miss

1487
01:18:07,400 --> 01:18:10,360
Speaker 2: the moose season. You're gonna you know, it doesn't work.

1488
01:18:10,880 --> 01:18:14,200
Speaker 2: So so I went in and happened to be there

1489
01:18:14,280 --> 01:18:16,240
Speaker 2: during the Solstice Fair. They have a big party on

1490
01:18:16,320 --> 01:18:21,519
Speaker 2: Solstice every year. And and Karen, my my wife of

1491
01:18:21,640 --> 01:18:25,000
Speaker 2: forty three years right now, was sitting taking care of

1492
01:18:25,040 --> 01:18:28,880
Speaker 2: somebody else's dog and in front of a live music band,

1493
01:18:28,920 --> 01:18:32,880
Speaker 2: and so I sawn Heed over there and we struck

1494
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:36,360
Speaker 2: up a conversation. Well, she was taking classes up at

1495
01:18:36,400 --> 01:18:41,880
Speaker 2: the university to go out and teach, and I asked

1496
01:18:41,920 --> 01:18:45,160
Speaker 2: her if she wanted to come and join me, and

1497
01:18:45,160 --> 01:18:46,920
Speaker 2: she said when you go, and I said tomorrow. Was

1498
01:18:46,960 --> 01:18:53,120
Speaker 2: she kind of a hippie, yeah, Birkenstocks. Yeah, everybody called

1499
01:18:53,160 --> 01:18:54,559
Speaker 2: us the.

1500
01:18:54,520 --> 01:18:57,840
Speaker 1: Whole thing watching a dog at a music music thing. Yeah,

1501
01:18:57,840 --> 01:19:00,360
Speaker 1: but back then hippies were kind of hard, like.

1502
01:19:00,320 --> 01:19:02,480
Speaker 3: They'd go live in the woods, different.

1503
01:19:02,160 --> 01:19:06,200
Speaker 4: Than there's still plenty of them in Alaska. I called

1504
01:19:06,240 --> 01:19:10,679
Speaker 4: it's the hippie redneck of Alaska. They're rough and tough,

1505
01:19:10,840 --> 01:19:12,880
Speaker 4: but kind of hippies at the same time.

1506
01:19:13,200 --> 01:19:15,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, I suppose I didn't.

1507
01:19:15,800 --> 01:19:18,920
Speaker 2: I didn't if they were hippies, I don't see anything

1508
01:19:18,920 --> 01:19:27,120
Speaker 2: wrong with them. They were great people that lived out

1509
01:19:27,120 --> 01:19:30,519
Speaker 2: there and high functioning, doing a lot of different stuff. Sure, man,

1510
01:19:30,920 --> 01:19:33,519
Speaker 2: I mean taking care of dogs and putting up food

1511
01:19:33,560 --> 01:19:37,000
Speaker 2: for the winter and dealing with salmon, and building cabins

1512
01:19:37,040 --> 01:19:38,040
Speaker 2: and traveling all over.

1513
01:19:38,120 --> 01:19:41,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. It was a high functioning group. When

1514
01:19:41,160 --> 01:19:45,479
Speaker 1: you met her, how like, how abruptly did you lay

1515
01:19:45,520 --> 01:19:48,120
Speaker 1: out what the what the proposal was?

1516
01:19:48,720 --> 01:19:49,960
Speaker 2: Oh, within a couple hours.

1517
01:19:51,960 --> 01:19:54,599
Speaker 7: And yeah, he said he's got one day to make

1518
01:19:54,600 --> 01:19:56,160
Speaker 7: a decision, right.

1519
01:19:56,000 --> 01:19:58,720
Speaker 2: Well, and she says, I'm not going to go bed.

1520
01:19:58,800 --> 01:20:02,120
Speaker 2: Give me where do I write you? So she would

1521
01:20:02,160 --> 01:20:05,320
Speaker 2: write me, and then and then the postmaster in Eagle

1522
01:20:05,680 --> 01:20:08,960
Speaker 2: would would give these letters to people to go down river,

1523
01:20:09,400 --> 01:20:12,519
Speaker 2: and so I would get a letter from somebody when

1524
01:20:12,560 --> 01:20:15,040
Speaker 2: I was down on the Yukon. And of course I

1525
01:20:15,080 --> 01:20:20,400
Speaker 2: had to borrow stationery, you know, right back. But but

1526
01:20:20,520 --> 01:20:24,479
Speaker 2: we exchanged I don't know, three or four letters during

1527
01:20:24,520 --> 01:20:28,720
Speaker 2: the course of that summer and fall, and then I

1528
01:20:28,840 --> 01:20:31,000
Speaker 2: was up the Candic River and didn't get any more

1529
01:20:31,040 --> 01:20:34,639
Speaker 2: mail until until I went down to the Yukon one time,

1530
01:20:35,479 --> 01:20:39,840
Speaker 2: and and she had she had put in her note

1531
01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:45,120
Speaker 2: that she was traveling down to San Francisco, where she

1532
01:20:45,160 --> 01:20:50,160
Speaker 2: had gone to college, And so I came down and

1533
01:20:50,439 --> 01:20:54,120
Speaker 2: met her at the airport in Anchorage.

1534
01:20:54,600 --> 01:20:57,400
Speaker 1: So so get this.

1535
01:20:57,600 --> 01:21:04,520
Speaker 2: I've got a beaver coat and moose hide pants, mucklucks

1536
01:21:04,560 --> 01:21:09,439
Speaker 2: with beaver tops to him, beaver mittens, and hat. And

1537
01:21:09,640 --> 01:21:14,280
Speaker 2: I get on an Alaska Airlines jet out of Fairbanks

1538
01:21:14,360 --> 01:21:16,800
Speaker 2: and they take me just like that down to Anchorage,

1539
01:21:16,840 --> 01:21:19,960
Speaker 2: right and my dad meets me down there and he's like,

1540
01:21:20,479 --> 01:21:24,799
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ, Randy, you can't dress like this in the city.

1541
01:21:25,080 --> 01:21:27,280
Speaker 2: So he takes me out and gets me new clothes

1542
01:21:27,320 --> 01:21:30,639
Speaker 2: and boots and stuff like that. And so I met

1543
01:21:30,720 --> 01:21:33,960
Speaker 2: her though at her airplane, and I had a ticket

1544
01:21:34,360 --> 01:21:37,680
Speaker 2: to go with her. So I went down to San

1545
01:21:37,720 --> 01:21:40,080
Speaker 2: Francisco with her, and it spent a couple of weeks,

1546
01:21:40,920 --> 01:21:43,800
Speaker 2: and then she was teaching in Akiak, which is down

1547
01:21:43,840 --> 01:21:47,000
Speaker 2: in the Lower Cusquin, a village down there, and.

1548
01:21:47,120 --> 01:21:49,479
Speaker 7: I don't want to diverge from your love story. But

1549
01:21:49,560 --> 01:21:52,679
Speaker 7: when you got to San Francisco, was it like holy shit,

1550
01:21:52,840 --> 01:21:54,160
Speaker 7: culture shock kind of thing?

1551
01:21:54,280 --> 01:21:54,439
Speaker 1: Oh?

1552
01:21:54,520 --> 01:21:58,559
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean I'd grown up in Santa Fe, you know,

1553
01:21:58,640 --> 01:22:00,960
Speaker 2: so I mean, I mean it isn't like San Francisco,

1554
01:22:01,040 --> 01:22:05,760
Speaker 2: but yeah, no, it's it was, Yeah, it was. It

1555
01:22:05,800 --> 01:22:08,400
Speaker 2: was culture shock. She took me to New York one

1556
01:22:08,400 --> 01:22:10,200
Speaker 2: time because she grew up back on the East Coast,

1557
01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:14,400
Speaker 2: and I'm like, oh, that's Martin. Oh, that's you know, muskrat,

1558
01:22:14,560 --> 01:22:16,880
Speaker 2: there's you know, a fox Burg, you know, all these

1559
01:22:16,880 --> 01:22:17,519
Speaker 2: different fur.

1560
01:22:17,439 --> 01:22:18,519
Speaker 1: Coats that people were wearing.

1561
01:22:19,080 --> 01:22:22,200
Speaker 2: And and I also said, don't let go of me

1562
01:22:22,240 --> 01:22:24,000
Speaker 2: because I don't think I could make it out of here.

1563
01:22:25,600 --> 01:22:28,440
Speaker 2: And so anyway, we've had a lot of great adventures.

1564
01:22:28,600 --> 01:22:31,799
Speaker 2: But but I did go down there with her and

1565
01:22:32,160 --> 01:22:34,000
Speaker 2: we got married the next year out on the river.

1566
01:22:35,040 --> 01:22:38,439
Speaker 1: That's awesome. So and you've been you've been together how long?

1567
01:22:38,800 --> 01:22:40,240
Speaker 1: Forty three years?

1568
01:22:40,760 --> 01:22:43,280
Speaker 4: And when you got married, did she move up on

1569
01:22:43,320 --> 01:22:43,880
Speaker 4: the river with you?

1570
01:22:44,120 --> 01:22:44,519
Speaker 1: She did?

1571
01:22:44,880 --> 01:22:47,639
Speaker 2: And uh, And I took her to one of our

1572
01:22:47,720 --> 01:22:51,200
Speaker 2: cabins that was about a nine y ten cabin and

1573
01:22:52,000 --> 01:22:54,800
Speaker 2: showed it to her, thinking, this is there here, it

1574
01:22:54,880 --> 01:22:59,120
Speaker 2: is this is the place, and she's going, I don't

1575
01:22:59,160 --> 01:23:02,360
Speaker 2: really think this is a good place for me. But

1576
01:23:02,400 --> 01:23:07,639
Speaker 2: we'd already been married, okay, and so and so I says,

1577
01:23:07,840 --> 01:23:09,760
Speaker 2: Or we can go up river a mile or so,

1578
01:23:09,960 --> 01:23:14,320
Speaker 2: and there's this old cabin that was there, and we

1579
01:23:14,360 --> 01:23:15,679
Speaker 2: could build a new one.

1580
01:23:15,760 --> 01:23:16,519
Speaker 1: And that's what we did.

1581
01:23:16,520 --> 01:23:19,080
Speaker 2: And we built the biggest cabin that was out there

1582
01:23:19,920 --> 01:23:20,719
Speaker 2: on the river.

1583
01:23:20,640 --> 01:23:21,240
Speaker 1: At that point.

1584
01:23:21,680 --> 01:23:22,880
Speaker 4: How big was it?

1585
01:23:22,880 --> 01:23:27,000
Speaker 2: It was eighteen feet square inside. Oh yeah, and two story.

1586
01:23:27,160 --> 01:23:29,640
Speaker 2: Oh well, it wasn't full two story. It was a

1587
01:23:29,680 --> 01:23:30,559
Speaker 2: two thirds loft.

1588
01:23:31,120 --> 01:23:35,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, mansion. It was a big one. Were you peeling

1589
01:23:35,280 --> 01:23:37,400
Speaker 1: those logs? Just leaving them and let letting the bark

1590
01:23:37,479 --> 01:23:42,720
Speaker 1: fall off? Eventually I left them. They were dry trees though,

1591
01:23:43,320 --> 01:23:47,320
Speaker 1: oh like fire killed trees or no, they weren't fire killed.

1592
01:23:47,360 --> 01:23:49,479
Speaker 1: It was a big grove of spruce tree that was

1593
01:23:49,520 --> 01:23:51,880
Speaker 1: growing along the Cantic River, and there was a there

1594
01:23:51,960 --> 01:23:58,920
Speaker 1: was a green swath that was maybe fifty yards in width,

1595
01:23:59,400 --> 01:24:01,320
Speaker 1: and then there was a dead one and I think

1596
01:24:01,320 --> 01:24:04,559
Speaker 1: the primafrost just came in underneath them and killed him.

1597
01:24:04,720 --> 01:24:05,360
Speaker 1: Oh I see.

1598
01:24:05,439 --> 01:24:09,280
Speaker 2: But they were big, big trees, big dry trees, all

1599
01:24:09,360 --> 01:24:12,080
Speaker 2: of them. So firewood was not a problem ever.

1600
01:24:12,040 --> 01:24:13,799
Speaker 3: At that point, were you build them with a chainsaw

1601
01:24:13,840 --> 01:24:14,759
Speaker 3: or all hand tools?

1602
01:24:15,120 --> 01:24:18,080
Speaker 2: I both saw on an axe and a two inch

1603
01:24:18,120 --> 01:24:21,479
Speaker 2: ogger for pegged work. No, I didn't have a chainsaw

1604
01:24:21,520 --> 01:24:22,200
Speaker 2: for a long time.

1605
01:24:22,840 --> 01:24:26,280
Speaker 6: Were you moving them on the snow or how are

1606
01:24:26,320 --> 01:24:30,120
Speaker 6: you transporting big logs like that? And eighteen foot? What's

1607
01:24:30,160 --> 01:24:30,759
Speaker 6: the diameter?

1608
01:24:31,040 --> 01:24:34,080
Speaker 2: They were twenty feet long and the big ones were

1609
01:24:34,120 --> 01:24:37,720
Speaker 2: probably twelve inches at the butt and uh, you know,

1610
01:24:37,960 --> 01:24:39,360
Speaker 2: nine or ten at the small end.

1611
01:24:39,520 --> 01:24:42,360
Speaker 1: They're real uniform. I just would grab them and haul

1612
01:24:42,400 --> 01:24:44,960
Speaker 1: them in. Yeah, there you go. You know, like normally,

1613
01:24:45,000 --> 01:24:48,760
Speaker 1: if you're married, it'd be you know, like you might

1614
01:24:48,800 --> 01:24:51,280
Speaker 1: get in the big old fight about I don't know,

1615
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:54,800
Speaker 1: like oh we should stay home this Christmas or no,

1616
01:24:54,920 --> 01:24:57,160
Speaker 1: we should go to so and so's this Christmas, And

1617
01:24:57,160 --> 01:25:00,280
Speaker 1: that might be like a thing. Yeah, as you we're

1618
01:25:00,360 --> 01:25:03,679
Speaker 1: married living out in the bush like that? Was there

1619
01:25:03,880 --> 01:25:08,040
Speaker 1: like a major version of that, a major version where

1620
01:25:08,040 --> 01:25:10,960
Speaker 1: it was like we should live like this living off

1621
01:25:10,960 --> 01:25:13,120
Speaker 1: the land out in the bush, or we should go

1622
01:25:13,160 --> 01:25:17,000
Speaker 1: live in the town. I mean, is that like a

1623
01:25:17,040 --> 01:25:18,080
Speaker 1: constant source attention?

1624
01:25:18,760 --> 01:25:22,560
Speaker 2: No, it really wasn't. I think the biggest tension initially

1625
01:25:22,800 --> 01:25:26,840
Speaker 2: was when we were leaving Eagle with our supplies in

1626
01:25:26,920 --> 01:25:29,760
Speaker 2: our double end canoe, getting ready to go up the

1627
01:25:29,800 --> 01:25:34,320
Speaker 2: Candic for the winter. Karen came up with this industrial

1628
01:25:34,360 --> 01:25:38,000
Speaker 2: sized box of toilet paper. Okay, And I'm like, we

1629
01:25:38,040 --> 01:25:40,400
Speaker 2: can't fit that, Karen, we can't fit it. She cause

1630
01:25:40,520 --> 01:25:44,519
Speaker 2: it goes all or I stay. And so laid it

1631
01:25:44,600 --> 01:25:48,920
Speaker 2: right out. She laid it right out. I says, there's moss, Karen,

1632
01:25:48,960 --> 01:25:52,160
Speaker 2: and she goes, not going to use it. This toilet

1633
01:25:52,160 --> 01:25:54,880
Speaker 2: paper goes or I'm not going. And so the toilet

1634
01:25:54,920 --> 01:25:59,320
Speaker 2: paper came. That was That was. I mean, it didn't

1635
01:25:59,360 --> 01:26:02,120
Speaker 2: last for very long because because you started using it

1636
01:26:02,160 --> 01:26:03,479
Speaker 2: all No, no, no, I didn't.

1637
01:26:04,640 --> 01:26:05,360
Speaker 1: I didn't use it.

1638
01:26:05,400 --> 01:26:10,760
Speaker 2: She did, but but uh, but she she she made

1639
01:26:10,800 --> 01:26:15,560
Speaker 2: her position known. So so we went out into the

1640
01:26:15,600 --> 01:26:17,800
Speaker 2: woods and built that place and stayed there a couple

1641
01:26:17,800 --> 01:26:19,840
Speaker 2: of years, and then she wanted to go and teach again.

1642
01:26:19,920 --> 01:26:24,320
Speaker 2: So we went together out to Uh. In that case,

1643
01:26:24,320 --> 01:26:31,000
Speaker 2: it was Chivak out on the Yukon Delta, and and

1644
01:26:31,120 --> 01:26:34,800
Speaker 2: that that one didn't pan out very well because they

1645
01:26:34,840 --> 01:26:36,920
Speaker 2: had they had financial problem. That was a b I

1646
01:26:36,960 --> 01:26:41,160
Speaker 2: a school and and they hadn't accounted for all of

1647
01:26:41,240 --> 01:26:44,320
Speaker 2: the funds from the year before, so b I was

1648
01:26:44,320 --> 01:26:47,120
Speaker 2: withholding funds, so none of the teachers got paid for

1649
01:26:47,240 --> 01:26:51,840
Speaker 2: like four or five months, and we we had She

1650
01:26:51,960 --> 01:26:55,599
Speaker 2: had student loans, various other things and couldn't go that far.

1651
01:26:55,720 --> 01:26:58,600
Speaker 2: So she quit and got a job in Dalton. So

1652
01:26:59,120 --> 01:27:01,840
Speaker 2: I'm dealing with moving dogs, sleds, you know, all this

1653
01:27:01,880 --> 01:27:05,120
Speaker 2: other stuff. And Non Dalton was a wonderful place. That's

1654
01:27:05,160 --> 01:27:08,640
Speaker 2: over near Lake Clark, southwest of Anchorage.

1655
01:27:09,680 --> 01:27:12,240
Speaker 1: Beautiful place. And we were there for a couple of years.

1656
01:27:12,600 --> 01:27:14,960
Speaker 1: And then did you set up and trap there too? Then?

1657
01:27:15,320 --> 01:27:18,880
Speaker 2: No, I hunted, but I didn't trap. I hunted and

1658
01:27:18,960 --> 01:27:21,960
Speaker 2: I fished. I put gillnets under the ice down there

1659
01:27:22,360 --> 01:27:25,479
Speaker 2: and would catch twenty or thirty of these great, big

1660
01:27:25,560 --> 01:27:31,400
Speaker 2: humpback whitefish and some lake trout virtually every night in

1661
01:27:31,479 --> 01:27:35,040
Speaker 2: non Dalton once the lake froze up. And so the

1662
01:27:35,080 --> 01:27:37,680
Speaker 2: town folks in the town there would come down with

1663
01:27:37,720 --> 01:27:40,000
Speaker 2: these sleds because they knew I was using it for

1664
01:27:40,080 --> 01:27:43,360
Speaker 2: dog food, so they would trade dried sock ice for

1665
01:27:43,760 --> 01:27:48,160
Speaker 2: fresh whitefish. And we did that all winter for two years.

1666
01:27:48,640 --> 01:27:52,639
Speaker 1: It was wonderful. And you were making no cash money

1667
01:27:52,640 --> 01:27:55,400
Speaker 1: at that point, none you personally yeah. None.

1668
01:27:56,280 --> 01:27:59,040
Speaker 2: I did build my first birch bark canoe there though,

1669
01:28:00,160 --> 01:28:03,799
Speaker 2: in Nondalton, just for fun in the teacher's housing.

1670
01:28:04,160 --> 01:28:08,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well yeah, yeah, to learn to do it.

1671
01:28:08,320 --> 01:28:09,599
Speaker 2: I wanted to learn to do it.

1672
01:28:10,120 --> 01:28:10,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1673
01:28:10,800 --> 01:28:13,800
Speaker 2: And so these three, these three old guys there would

1674
01:28:14,760 --> 01:28:17,160
Speaker 2: when they heard I was I was starting to build this,

1675
01:28:17,240 --> 01:28:19,559
Speaker 2: they knocked on my door and I opened it. They

1676
01:28:19,560 --> 01:28:23,080
Speaker 2: walk in, took seats, and they would sit there pretty

1677
01:28:23,120 --> 01:28:25,920
Speaker 2: much every day and just watch everye Once in a

1678
01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:28,280
Speaker 2: while they'd say something about how they used to do it.

1679
01:28:28,360 --> 01:28:34,120
Speaker 2: But but nobody had been making making birch bark canoes

1680
01:28:35,240 --> 01:28:38,719
Speaker 2: up there in the old ways since about the sometime

1681
01:28:38,760 --> 01:28:43,000
Speaker 2: in the nineteen twenties they stopped building them. They would

1682
01:28:43,120 --> 01:28:46,200
Speaker 2: they had got canvas then, and they started doing canvas

1683
01:28:46,200 --> 01:28:51,320
Speaker 2: boats that were a bit easier to build. But anyway,

1684
01:28:51,360 --> 01:28:53,640
Speaker 2: it was. It was great. And they they gave me

1685
01:28:53,720 --> 01:28:58,280
Speaker 2: suggestions like to mix caribou hair cut up small into

1686
01:28:58,600 --> 01:29:02,840
Speaker 2: uh into the pitch for doing the ceiling on the

1687
01:29:02,840 --> 01:29:04,840
Speaker 2: birch bark canoes and.

1688
01:29:05,439 --> 01:29:07,800
Speaker 1: Makes it more like a fiberglass or something. Yeah.

1689
01:29:07,920 --> 01:29:12,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, And and like straw in Adobe's and things like that, Yeah,

1690
01:29:13,000 --> 01:29:13,719
Speaker 2: holds it together.

1691
01:29:14,520 --> 01:29:17,840
Speaker 4: Did you continue to use that skill in your lifetime.

1692
01:29:18,479 --> 01:29:22,000
Speaker 2: I built I think eleven or twelve birch bark canoes.

1693
01:29:22,040 --> 01:29:25,639
Speaker 2: You're shipping me really, yeah, at the Baskin style once,

1694
01:29:25,680 --> 01:29:30,960
Speaker 2: I like, I built two Eastern style, but the Athabaskan

1695
01:29:31,000 --> 01:29:33,960
Speaker 2: style is a little different construction. And so I just thought,

1696
01:29:34,280 --> 01:29:36,479
Speaker 2: we're in Alaska, we'll do them next way.

1697
01:29:37,720 --> 01:29:43,439
Speaker 1: Yeah. Damn. Well, at this point you've gone to school

1698
01:29:43,439 --> 01:29:48,559
Speaker 1: one semester. Yeah that's true. So why did you like,

1699
01:29:50,439 --> 01:29:54,760
Speaker 1: so you're how how educated are you now? I mean

1700
01:29:54,760 --> 01:29:56,799
Speaker 1: you got a lot of school now, a lot of school.

1701
01:29:58,360 --> 01:30:01,040
Speaker 1: I've got a graduate school, yeah I did.

1702
01:30:01,600 --> 01:30:05,640
Speaker 2: And that was so that was really one of the

1703
01:30:05,680 --> 01:30:08,559
Speaker 2: more traumatic things was moving into town. Traumatic things for me.

1704
01:30:09,520 --> 01:30:12,360
Speaker 2: So so we went back let me, let me please,

1705
01:30:12,800 --> 01:30:13,919
Speaker 2: So we went back.

1706
01:30:13,760 --> 01:30:14,320
Speaker 1: In the woods.

1707
01:30:14,439 --> 01:30:16,960
Speaker 2: We we we went out a couple of times when

1708
01:30:17,040 --> 01:30:20,479
Speaker 2: Caroen taught in Eagle and and for a little bit,

1709
01:30:20,520 --> 01:30:23,000
Speaker 2: and I would go out on trapline then. But but

1710
01:30:23,160 --> 01:30:27,400
Speaker 2: at one point, you know that remember the Native Claims

1711
01:30:27,439 --> 01:30:33,479
Speaker 2: Settlement Act happened, and Nilka happened, and and and all

1712
01:30:33,520 --> 01:30:36,680
Speaker 2: of a sudden, you know, people were there was a

1713
01:30:36,840 --> 01:30:40,000
Speaker 2: there was a desire to start claiming land or getting

1714
01:30:40,160 --> 01:30:43,320
Speaker 2: land that would go to one entity or another. And

1715
01:30:43,360 --> 01:30:47,840
Speaker 2: in the interior, Doyon was the big regional corporation and

1716
01:30:48,400 --> 01:30:51,040
Speaker 2: they had selected the land that our cabin was on.

1717
01:30:51,600 --> 01:30:54,080
Speaker 2: It had been b l M land prior to that,

1718
01:30:54,920 --> 01:31:00,600
Speaker 2: and it was just outside of the Yukon Charlie Park boundary.

1719
01:31:01,240 --> 01:31:06,640
Speaker 2: And Doyan said that they hadn't figured initially because we communicated,

1720
01:31:07,920 --> 01:31:12,760
Speaker 2: they had not decided how to deal with trespassed cabins,

1721
01:31:13,600 --> 01:31:17,040
Speaker 2: how to permit them or not and everything. Well, finally

1722
01:31:17,080 --> 01:31:20,559
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety they they sent us a note telling

1723
01:31:20,640 --> 01:31:24,600
Speaker 2: us that we had to leave, that we couldn't be

1724
01:31:24,640 --> 01:31:25,400
Speaker 2: out there anymore.

1725
01:31:25,439 --> 01:31:26,920
Speaker 1: The tribal corporation.

1726
01:31:26,560 --> 01:31:31,400
Speaker 2: Did, yeah, yeah, the corp yeah, Douyan Native Corporation and

1727
01:31:31,439 --> 01:31:34,639
Speaker 2: so but we were getting ready to go anyway because

1728
01:31:34,680 --> 01:31:37,479
Speaker 2: we had one dog team and it couldn't take all

1729
01:31:37,520 --> 01:31:39,680
Speaker 2: of us on a big trip into Eagle or to

1730
01:31:39,800 --> 01:31:44,000
Speaker 2: visit other people. So so you know, we had like

1731
01:31:44,120 --> 01:31:47,559
Speaker 2: five or six dogs at that time, great big one

1732
01:31:47,640 --> 01:31:52,320
Speaker 2: hundred pound, hundred and twenty pound huskies. There were wonderful animals.

1733
01:31:52,720 --> 01:31:57,320
Speaker 2: But it in order to have you know, the kids

1734
01:31:57,760 --> 01:32:00,479
Speaker 2: with their own teams or or care and with her

1735
01:32:00,479 --> 01:32:03,120
Speaker 2: own team, so you have you can travel as a family.

1736
01:32:03,160 --> 01:32:05,719
Speaker 2: It would have been really costly. You know, you can't

1737
01:32:05,720 --> 01:32:08,840
Speaker 2: fish in the Yukon, but go thirty miles off to live.

1738
01:32:08,920 --> 01:32:11,920
Speaker 2: You know, you can't move that that much stuff, and

1739
01:32:11,960 --> 01:32:13,680
Speaker 2: you got to feed those dogs, and you got to

1740
01:32:13,680 --> 01:32:14,400
Speaker 2: feed all the time.

1741
01:32:14,479 --> 01:32:15,920
Speaker 3: They can't move all that fish.

1742
01:32:16,160 --> 01:32:17,040
Speaker 1: Can't move the fish.

1743
01:32:17,320 --> 01:32:19,559
Speaker 2: You know, if you you live on the Yukon, that

1744
01:32:19,680 --> 01:32:21,840
Speaker 2: was a that was a resource that people used, but

1745
01:32:21,920 --> 01:32:25,080
Speaker 2: we didn't. And so I wasn't willing to go and

1746
01:32:25,120 --> 01:32:27,519
Speaker 2: try to manage a couple of dog teams. How would

1747
01:32:27,520 --> 01:32:29,960
Speaker 2: we even go along the river? You know, as these

1748
01:32:29,960 --> 01:32:34,000
Speaker 2: guys already ran the banks and uh and you know

1749
01:32:34,040 --> 01:32:36,559
Speaker 2: the Yukon. We would run them for a while until

1750
01:32:36,560 --> 01:32:38,200
Speaker 2: they got tired and then throw them in the canoe

1751
01:32:38,200 --> 01:32:40,519
Speaker 2: and they would you know, we could manage it that way,

1752
01:32:40,560 --> 01:32:43,160
Speaker 2: but uh, it just wasn't going to work.

1753
01:32:43,280 --> 01:32:45,120
Speaker 6: And so we were getting do you have no fishing

1754
01:32:45,160 --> 01:32:49,040
Speaker 6: on your on your river? No char or grayling?

1755
01:32:49,280 --> 01:32:52,639
Speaker 2: Or there were grayling, there were grayling, there were suckers

1756
01:32:52,640 --> 01:32:57,320
Speaker 2: along those suckers, there were you know, round white fish.

1757
01:32:57,400 --> 01:33:00,360
Speaker 2: There were a few species. But you couldn't feed her

1758
01:33:00,400 --> 01:33:02,799
Speaker 2: dog team with him. You know, you might feed them overnight.

1759
01:33:02,960 --> 01:33:04,640
Speaker 2: You know, in the lower part of the river there

1760
01:33:04,640 --> 01:33:07,160
Speaker 2: were Northern Pike, not in.

1761
01:33:07,120 --> 01:33:10,839
Speaker 1: The upper part of the river. They didn't go up there. Anyway.

1762
01:33:11,520 --> 01:33:14,439
Speaker 2: We were we were we were getting ready to go anyway.

1763
01:33:15,120 --> 01:33:19,320
Speaker 2: And so we just asked for a year leeway from

1764
01:33:19,439 --> 01:33:22,280
Speaker 2: Doyon so that we could come in with a ski

1765
01:33:22,360 --> 01:33:25,559
Speaker 2: plane and move some things and take care of the

1766
01:33:25,560 --> 01:33:28,400
Speaker 2: cabin so it wouldn't be a trash pile at some point.

1767
01:33:28,560 --> 01:33:31,839
Speaker 2: So so they they granted that to us, and uh,

1768
01:33:31,920 --> 01:33:37,160
Speaker 2: and then we went into Fairbanks and that was I

1769
01:33:37,240 --> 01:33:41,360
Speaker 2: hadn't worked a job since I was in high school,

1770
01:33:41,400 --> 01:33:45,000
Speaker 2: well the milking the cows period, you know, just out

1771
01:33:45,040 --> 01:33:49,600
Speaker 2: of high school. And and Karen had she she was

1772
01:33:49,640 --> 01:33:52,680
Speaker 2: a full out teacher. She she could go into Fairbanks

1773
01:33:52,680 --> 01:33:57,559
Speaker 2: and boom, she's teaching. And and I was I was struggling,

1774
01:33:57,560 --> 01:33:58,760
Speaker 2: what the hell do I do now?

1775
01:33:59,000 --> 01:33:59,240
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1776
01:33:59,320 --> 01:34:03,040
Speaker 2: No, And there was this one log yard and I thought, well,

1777
01:34:03,080 --> 01:34:05,120
Speaker 2: I'd do log stuff, and so I walked over there

1778
01:34:05,200 --> 01:34:07,880
Speaker 2: and asked if there was any work. And this guy

1779
01:34:08,320 --> 01:34:12,320
Speaker 2: has these giant logs, you know that big, big scribe

1780
01:34:12,360 --> 01:34:15,080
Speaker 2: log houses get built out of, you know, forty fifty

1781
01:34:15,080 --> 01:34:18,960
Speaker 2: feet long, you know, and dirt and bark and stobs

1782
01:34:18,960 --> 01:34:21,719
Speaker 2: and everything. I'll give you ten dollars a log for peeling,

1783
01:34:21,840 --> 01:34:25,599
Speaker 2: you know. Well that isn't then again to even even

1784
01:34:27,160 --> 01:34:30,000
Speaker 2: enough to do our rent on a monthly basis, or

1785
01:34:30,640 --> 01:34:32,720
Speaker 2: pay for the kids stay care or whatever, you know.

1786
01:34:33,080 --> 01:34:34,840
Speaker 1: You know. And I had a gig for a while

1787
01:34:34,920 --> 01:34:36,360
Speaker 1: doing those logs, and it was I feel like it

1788
01:34:36,400 --> 01:34:40,479
Speaker 1: was thirty cents a foot. Yeah that's what we get paid. Yeah,

1789
01:34:40,880 --> 01:34:43,200
Speaker 1: that's a miserable job. Man. Yeah.

1790
01:34:43,240 --> 01:34:45,880
Speaker 2: I peeled a lot of logs, and when it's your own,

1791
01:34:45,920 --> 01:34:49,120
Speaker 2: you know, it's just one thing. But peeling them for

1792
01:34:49,160 --> 01:34:52,880
Speaker 2: ten bucks a log. So so then I I said,

1793
01:34:52,960 --> 01:34:55,639
Speaker 2: I'm going to go to college. And so I went

1794
01:34:55,680 --> 01:34:57,040
Speaker 2: back to college.

1795
01:34:57,439 --> 01:34:58,800
Speaker 1: Walked up, walked over there.

1796
01:34:59,040 --> 01:35:04,880
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and uh and and so I had I

1797
01:35:04,920 --> 01:35:10,680
Speaker 2: had one semester of credits and and and and went

1798
01:35:10,720 --> 01:35:14,400
Speaker 2: there and was going to go into biology because I thought,

1799
01:35:15,000 --> 01:35:18,320
Speaker 2: if there's anything I can do, it's it's these some

1800
01:35:18,600 --> 01:35:20,920
Speaker 2: job in biology where they go out in the field

1801
01:35:20,920 --> 01:35:23,120
Speaker 2: and do stuff, you know, because we met we met

1802
01:35:23,120 --> 01:35:25,960
Speaker 2: people out on the Yukon taking care of peregrines. We

1803
01:35:26,000 --> 01:35:29,160
Speaker 2: met people that were doing fisheries work or forestry work,

1804
01:35:29,439 --> 01:35:31,400
Speaker 2: and we thought I can do that. That would be

1805
01:35:31,439 --> 01:35:31,800
Speaker 2: something like.

1806
01:35:32,000 --> 01:35:34,960
Speaker 3: Oh, you'd run into professionals out doing their jobs.

1807
01:35:34,720 --> 01:35:38,200
Speaker 2: That's right, yeah, yeah, and so and so that's what

1808
01:35:38,400 --> 01:35:41,880
Speaker 2: that's what I did. And and my first job was

1809
01:35:41,960 --> 01:35:45,599
Speaker 2: with BLM, a seasonal job. This gal, Randy Chant, who

1810
01:35:45,680 --> 01:35:51,519
Speaker 2: was a biology biologist with BLM, was doing waterfowl brood

1811
01:35:51,600 --> 01:35:55,960
Speaker 2: surveys and wanted to hire somebody to be able to

1812
01:35:56,000 --> 01:35:58,840
Speaker 2: do that. But they had to know the birds, and

1813
01:35:58,840 --> 01:36:02,040
Speaker 2: and I knew all the birds, all of the ducks

1814
01:36:02,080 --> 01:36:05,479
Speaker 2: and the geese and everything. You could see him from

1815
01:36:05,479 --> 01:36:10,360
Speaker 2: a mile away flying and know what they were. And

1816
01:36:10,560 --> 01:36:13,400
Speaker 2: so she took me out to test me around these

1817
01:36:13,439 --> 01:36:16,000
Speaker 2: there's two lakes by the airport when they get a

1818
01:36:16,000 --> 01:36:19,680
Speaker 2: bunch of ducks in the spring, and of course I

1819
01:36:19,680 --> 01:36:21,400
Speaker 2: could identify them all.

1820
01:36:21,920 --> 01:36:22,360
Speaker 1: No problem.

1821
01:36:22,479 --> 01:36:25,240
Speaker 2: She's gonna be okay, well you might work. And they

1822
01:36:25,240 --> 01:36:28,080
Speaker 2: were really nervous because here's this guy, I don't know

1823
01:36:28,080 --> 01:36:30,160
Speaker 2: how old I was, thirty three or something like that,

1824
01:36:30,920 --> 01:36:33,920
Speaker 2: and didn't have a job since he was a teenager.

1825
01:36:34,920 --> 01:36:35,080
Speaker 1: You know.

1826
01:36:35,400 --> 01:36:37,160
Speaker 2: It made him a little bit nervous.

1827
01:36:37,160 --> 01:36:37,719
Speaker 1: But they.

1828
01:36:39,840 --> 01:36:45,240
Speaker 2: They they took the chance and and so I was

1829
01:36:45,360 --> 01:36:48,920
Speaker 2: going to college in the in the winters and then

1830
01:36:49,040 --> 01:36:53,320
Speaker 2: working for her doing waterfowl brood surveys. I started to

1831
01:36:53,360 --> 01:37:03,000
Speaker 2: do fisheries work with BLM and and finished bachelor's degree

1832
01:37:03,280 --> 01:37:07,160
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety six. And one of the guys I

1833
01:37:07,160 --> 01:37:10,919
Speaker 2: had worked with at BLM was running a big project

1834
01:37:10,960 --> 01:37:14,120
Speaker 2: on the Yukon for Fish Wildlife Service, and I walked

1835
01:37:14,120 --> 01:37:16,760
Speaker 2: into the office and he says, you're the man I want,

1836
01:37:16,800 --> 01:37:21,040
Speaker 2: and he hired me to work out on salmon down

1837
01:37:21,080 --> 01:37:24,240
Speaker 2: at Rapids, which is down near the mouth of the

1838
01:37:24,280 --> 01:37:25,000
Speaker 2: Tananaw River.

1839
01:37:25,439 --> 01:37:28,680
Speaker 7: Did you kind of like, did you fall into the

1840
01:37:28,720 --> 01:37:31,640
Speaker 7: fisheries thing or was that something you were like interested

1841
01:37:31,640 --> 01:37:33,560
Speaker 7: in and wanted to hone in on yourself?

1842
01:37:36,400 --> 01:37:41,400
Speaker 2: That was really opportunistic. So in my undergraduate work, I

1843
01:37:41,439 --> 01:37:48,760
Speaker 2: had done mammalogy and ornithology and I did fish biology.

1844
01:37:48,840 --> 01:37:51,200
Speaker 2: You know, there were these different but I had also

1845
01:37:51,280 --> 01:37:56,520
Speaker 2: done microbiology and genetics and I liked them all. Sell biology,

1846
01:37:56,560 --> 01:38:00,360
Speaker 2: I thought that they were all pretty fascinating. And did

1847
01:38:00,400 --> 01:38:05,640
Speaker 2: physics and chemistry and math and everything too. But so

1848
01:38:05,720 --> 01:38:09,920
Speaker 2: I started there and the first year, you know, we

1849
01:38:09,960 --> 01:38:13,120
Speaker 2: have this big fish wheel running and we're tagging chump

1850
01:38:13,200 --> 01:38:16,360
Speaker 2: salmon fall chump salmon at four hundred and fifty fish

1851
01:38:16,360 --> 01:38:19,599
Speaker 2: a day, putting these spaghetti tags. And we were doing

1852
01:38:19,600 --> 01:38:25,080
Speaker 2: a mark recapture project trying to estimate the population upstream

1853
01:38:25,080 --> 01:38:29,479
Speaker 2: of the Tanina. And while we were catching all of

1854
01:38:29,520 --> 01:38:34,519
Speaker 2: those chump salmon, shefish were coming through in August and

1855
01:38:34,560 --> 01:38:38,120
Speaker 2: September to the tune of you know, sixty or eighty

1856
01:38:38,160 --> 01:38:39,759
Speaker 2: a day going through the fish wheel.

1857
01:38:39,760 --> 01:38:42,640
Speaker 7: Can you describe a shefish for people that don't know

1858
01:38:42,680 --> 01:38:43,200
Speaker 7: what they are?

1859
01:38:43,560 --> 01:38:48,760
Speaker 2: She fish are a great, big fish eating whitefish, and

1860
01:38:48,840 --> 01:38:52,880
Speaker 2: there can be as much as thirty forty pounds or

1861
01:38:52,920 --> 01:39:00,559
Speaker 2: more and well over a meter long, and they're there

1862
01:39:00,280 --> 01:39:01,960
Speaker 2: are a really great fish.

1863
01:39:02,240 --> 01:39:04,480
Speaker 1: So the tarpin and a whitefish had sex.

1864
01:39:04,400 --> 01:39:07,160
Speaker 2: Right exactly. It's kind of like that, And.

1865
01:39:07,240 --> 01:39:11,040
Speaker 1: Not that I've ever caught on. They just been described

1866
01:39:11,080 --> 01:39:11,280
Speaker 1: to me.

1867
01:39:11,960 --> 01:39:17,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that tarpin give a much more profound

1868
01:39:17,200 --> 01:39:24,880
Speaker 2: fight than shefish do. But shefish are, they're a wonderful fish.

1869
01:39:25,280 --> 01:39:28,439
Speaker 1: When you got into this work and got into school

1870
01:39:28,479 --> 01:39:30,640
Speaker 1: and all that, like did the whole time that you

1871
01:39:30,800 --> 01:39:34,479
Speaker 1: know that you were real bright, like that you had

1872
01:39:34,520 --> 01:39:39,439
Speaker 1: like a book learning ability. I mean, you had to

1873
01:39:39,640 --> 01:39:44,040
Speaker 1: felt so fairal and wild right, Well, there is that,

1874
01:39:44,240 --> 01:39:47,080
Speaker 1: But like to come back to it, were you surprised

1875
01:39:47,120 --> 01:39:49,600
Speaker 1: to be like, oh, I can be in these classes

1876
01:39:49,680 --> 01:39:53,120
Speaker 1: and get a's on my tests and write papers well,

1877
01:39:53,880 --> 01:39:55,639
Speaker 1: or did you feel that that was there all along?

1878
01:39:57,160 --> 01:39:58,000
Speaker 1: I didn't really know.

1879
01:39:58,080 --> 01:40:01,120
Speaker 2: So there were several of my friends told me, there's

1880
01:40:01,160 --> 01:40:03,640
Speaker 2: no way you're going to keep up with these, you know,

1881
01:40:04,040 --> 01:40:08,840
Speaker 2: lighteen early twenties test staking machines, you know, yeah, and

1882
01:40:08,840 --> 01:40:13,120
Speaker 2: and but I ignored it, and I did just fine.

1883
01:40:13,360 --> 01:40:15,840
Speaker 1: My dad hung out with this. My dad was fought

1884
01:40:15,880 --> 01:40:17,200
Speaker 1: World War two in a love of his bodies were

1885
01:40:17,240 --> 01:40:18,880
Speaker 1: all World War two guys. And there's a guy who

1886
01:40:18,920 --> 01:40:22,000
Speaker 1: lived across like across our lake and then over this

1887
01:40:22,160 --> 01:40:25,040
Speaker 1: Isthmus and across the next lake. And he had been

1888
01:40:25,080 --> 01:40:27,000
Speaker 1: a pilot during World War two, but he was kept

1889
01:40:27,000 --> 01:40:29,679
Speaker 1: in a pow camp. He got shot down, was kept

1890
01:40:29,720 --> 01:40:35,080
Speaker 1: in a pow camp. You know, the famous aviator Charles Lindbergh. Yeah,

1891
01:40:35,200 --> 01:40:40,960
Speaker 1: this guy was Charles Lynn Back. He was telling me

1892
01:40:41,000 --> 01:40:44,479
Speaker 1: that when he got home from the war, he just

1893
01:40:44,520 --> 01:40:47,559
Speaker 1: assumed he'd go to school on the GI Bill And

1894
01:40:47,560 --> 01:40:49,679
Speaker 1: he said that he went and sat there one time

1895
01:40:51,040 --> 01:40:53,000
Speaker 1: and right off the bat he's like there's no way

1896
01:40:54,960 --> 01:40:59,120
Speaker 1: and just walked out like couldn't do it, couldn't do it.

1897
01:40:59,160 --> 01:41:01,439
Speaker 1: You know, that's was hard for me to picture like that.

1898
01:41:01,479 --> 01:41:05,679
Speaker 1: You went off and got like undoctrinated and went wild,

1899
01:41:06,760 --> 01:41:12,480
Speaker 1: but then came back and got redoctriny, like redoctrinate.

1900
01:41:13,840 --> 01:41:15,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I suppose that's that's true.

1901
01:41:16,040 --> 01:41:16,559
Speaker 1: I don't know it.

1902
01:41:16,760 --> 01:41:19,600
Speaker 2: Uh, it was a wild time, but it was it

1903
01:41:19,720 --> 01:41:24,160
Speaker 2: was really hard to to come to grasp uh the

1904
01:41:24,160 --> 01:41:28,920
Speaker 2: the the change coming into town, and I struggled for

1905
01:41:28,960 --> 01:41:31,280
Speaker 2: a while trying to figure out what what the hell

1906
01:41:31,280 --> 01:41:31,960
Speaker 2: am I going to do?

1907
01:41:32,080 --> 01:41:36,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you're living like you're living like kill a

1908
01:41:36,120 --> 01:41:40,800
Speaker 1: rab eat it, yeah, catch something slid, cut a tree down,

1909
01:41:40,840 --> 01:41:44,599
Speaker 1: make a house. You're playing. Yeah, I also been playing

1910
01:41:44,640 --> 01:41:46,640
Speaker 1: this like long game, like oh, if I do this

1911
01:41:46,680 --> 01:41:49,960
Speaker 1: for four years, I'll get like a tech position, and

1912
01:41:49,960 --> 01:41:51,760
Speaker 1: then maybe I'll get like a job.

1913
01:41:51,920 --> 01:41:53,639
Speaker 6: And the things that you have to do in school

1914
01:41:53,800 --> 01:41:56,479
Speaker 6: right where you're like, Okay, I know this doesn't matter.

1915
01:41:58,439 --> 01:42:01,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I ever asked me this as long.

1916
01:42:01,640 --> 01:42:06,120
Speaker 6: As whereas like jump back to last year, if you

1917
01:42:06,160 --> 01:42:09,840
Speaker 6: didn't do what mattered, bad things goulda happen.

1918
01:42:10,760 --> 01:42:11,280
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1919
01:42:11,600 --> 01:42:15,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I imagine just doing homework wasn't necessarily what

1920
01:42:15,360 --> 01:42:18,880
Speaker 4: the challenge or what the irk was, right, Like, what

1921
01:42:19,000 --> 01:42:21,479
Speaker 4: was the biggest thing that you sort of that you

1922
01:42:21,520 --> 01:42:24,519
Speaker 4: had to come to grips with or face head on

1923
01:42:24,720 --> 01:42:28,120
Speaker 4: when you made the change, like just in general in life,

1924
01:42:28,280 --> 01:42:31,080
Speaker 4: Like what was it that confronted you that really made

1925
01:42:31,120 --> 01:42:32,280
Speaker 4: it difficult.

1926
01:42:35,040 --> 01:42:40,080
Speaker 2: That That's a that's a good question, I guess you

1927
01:42:40,160 --> 01:42:42,720
Speaker 2: know that that had been my identity for so long

1928
01:42:42,800 --> 01:42:45,719
Speaker 2: being out in the woods. Coming in it was like struggling.

1929
01:42:45,800 --> 01:42:50,280
Speaker 2: And our older boy he struggled with it too, did he? Oh, yeah,

1930
01:42:50,360 --> 01:42:55,840
Speaker 2: yeah he did, and he just saw himself as being

1931
01:42:56,760 --> 01:43:01,120
Speaker 2: the woods person that that he was and.

1932
01:43:03,200 --> 01:43:03,880
Speaker 1: He got over it.

1933
01:43:04,040 --> 01:43:08,559
Speaker 2: Although he see he's he he teaches. He teaches applied

1934
01:43:08,600 --> 01:43:12,479
Speaker 2: math at University color Colorado, Boulder, right. And on his

1935
01:43:12,880 --> 01:43:18,040
Speaker 2: web page it says Jed Brown was born and raised

1936
01:43:18,040 --> 01:43:19,840
Speaker 2: by wolves in the Alaska wilderness.

1937
01:43:19,840 --> 01:43:20,559
Speaker 1: You know, so he.

1938
01:43:22,800 --> 01:43:27,720
Speaker 2: So he he he encompasses that. He likes it and

1939
01:43:27,800 --> 01:43:30,040
Speaker 2: uh and likes that. That was what he did for

1940
01:43:30,080 --> 01:43:32,479
Speaker 2: the first pretty much eight years.

1941
01:43:32,240 --> 01:43:32,760
Speaker 1: Of his life.

1942
01:43:33,479 --> 01:43:35,760
Speaker 2: And he's still we he and I had gone out

1943
01:43:35,840 --> 01:43:40,000
Speaker 2: sheep on inden and things for several times, and uh,

1944
01:43:40,200 --> 01:43:44,840
Speaker 2: that's all really fun. Yeah, I guess, you know, when

1945
01:43:44,840 --> 01:43:47,559
Speaker 2: I when I realized that if I'm going to get

1946
01:43:47,600 --> 01:43:50,280
Speaker 2: into a job that I'm going to like I got

1947
01:43:50,280 --> 01:43:54,040
Speaker 2: to go through this the university. And once I kind

1948
01:43:54,040 --> 01:43:56,960
Speaker 2: of came to grips with that, I just I would

1949
01:43:56,960 --> 01:43:57,400
Speaker 2: just go there.

1950
01:43:57,439 --> 01:43:58,080
Speaker 1: I just do it.

1951
01:43:58,600 --> 01:44:01,960
Speaker 2: And and it wasn't all that hard. It was just

1952
01:44:02,320 --> 01:44:04,040
Speaker 2: I mean, there was time element to it.

1953
01:44:04,400 --> 01:44:08,280
Speaker 9: But was it tough being around people all the time,

1954
01:44:08,880 --> 01:44:12,960
Speaker 9: going from like not seeing people for months to being

1955
01:44:12,960 --> 01:44:14,320
Speaker 9: around people every single day.

1956
01:44:16,600 --> 01:44:16,960
Speaker 1: I don't.

1957
01:44:17,200 --> 01:44:25,880
Speaker 2: I don't really, that's probably probably true. That's not something

1958
01:44:25,880 --> 01:44:28,480
Speaker 2: that I remember as as a as an issue.

1959
01:44:28,280 --> 01:44:29,840
Speaker 1: Though, gotcha, I did.

1960
01:44:30,000 --> 01:44:33,680
Speaker 2: We did get a place that was kind of, you know,

1961
01:44:33,800 --> 01:44:36,240
Speaker 2: kind of by itself and there was woods around it

1962
01:44:36,600 --> 01:44:38,360
Speaker 2: and I really liked that, and we had a bird

1963
01:44:38,360 --> 01:44:43,720
Speaker 2: feeder right outside of the this window, and so so

1964
01:44:43,880 --> 01:44:45,880
Speaker 2: I would it was definitely a good place for me

1965
01:44:45,960 --> 01:44:50,400
Speaker 2: because I would come and decompress if there was decompressing

1966
01:44:50,439 --> 01:44:50,680
Speaker 2: to do.

1967
01:44:51,400 --> 01:44:54,800
Speaker 7: So was it was it all fisheries research after that

1968
01:44:54,840 --> 01:44:56,599
Speaker 7: first job at the fish Wheel?

1969
01:44:57,160 --> 01:45:00,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I got into the I got into the

1970
01:45:00,479 --> 01:45:04,479
Speaker 2: the honors program as as an undergraduate, and in the

1971
01:45:04,520 --> 01:45:09,040
Speaker 2: honors program, I did work out in Cole Bay, I

1972
01:45:09,160 --> 01:45:14,080
Speaker 2: did a small mammal survey following after Murray's worked in

1973
01:45:14,080 --> 01:45:17,320
Speaker 2: the nineteen twenties, and that that got put into what

1974
01:45:17,360 --> 01:45:22,200
Speaker 2: they call an honors thesis. The honors program paid my way, essentially,

1975
01:45:22,680 --> 01:45:25,720
Speaker 2: they paid my tuition and which was a good thing.

1976
01:45:26,200 --> 01:45:28,240
Speaker 2: But it also there were classes you had to take

1977
01:45:28,280 --> 01:45:30,439
Speaker 2: in that that were I don't.

1978
01:45:30,240 --> 01:45:31,880
Speaker 1: Know, maybe maybe.

1979
01:45:33,520 --> 01:45:38,080
Speaker 2: A little more philosophy, and anyway, it was, it was,

1980
01:45:38,280 --> 01:45:41,880
Speaker 2: it was a good thing. And and so once I went,

1981
01:45:43,160 --> 01:45:45,320
Speaker 2: once I got into that fish job, though I've had

1982
01:45:45,400 --> 01:45:47,639
Speaker 2: that same job the whole time. I mean I wasn't

1983
01:45:47,720 --> 01:45:51,520
Speaker 2: hired permanent initially it was it was a technician.

1984
01:45:52,000 --> 01:45:54,240
Speaker 1: But the sheefish work.

1985
01:45:55,040 --> 01:45:56,800
Speaker 2: There was a fell at John Burr that worked with

1986
01:45:57,040 --> 01:45:58,920
Speaker 2: Fish and Game Department at the time, and he came

1987
01:45:58,960 --> 01:46:01,240
Speaker 2: by to see it us at work down there, and

1988
01:46:01,280 --> 01:46:04,519
Speaker 2: he said, you guys really should do something with these sheepish.

1989
01:46:04,560 --> 01:46:06,680
Speaker 2: We've been working to try to figure out where they

1990
01:46:06,800 --> 01:46:08,800
Speaker 2: go and where they came from for a long time.

1991
01:46:09,520 --> 01:46:14,120
Speaker 2: And we were doing telemetry work with the chump salmon

1992
01:46:14,120 --> 01:46:16,920
Speaker 2: as well, not only the spaghetti tagging, but a telemetry

1993
01:46:16,960 --> 01:46:20,920
Speaker 2: program with it. And so we just with towers that were,

1994
01:46:21,400 --> 01:46:23,400
Speaker 2: you know, up in the drainage, so you could tell

1995
01:46:23,439 --> 01:46:26,479
Speaker 2: when they swim by these towers they would get a record.

1996
01:46:27,080 --> 01:46:30,559
Speaker 2: And so that's what I did for my master's degree,

1997
01:46:31,280 --> 01:46:38,080
Speaker 2: and I put out radio transmitters three years in a

1998
01:46:38,160 --> 01:46:41,840
Speaker 2: row and also did that odalith chemistry and was able

1999
01:46:41,880 --> 01:46:45,040
Speaker 2: to show that these fish spawned in this big braided

2000
01:46:45,080 --> 01:46:48,680
Speaker 2: region of the upper Yukon flats right in the mainstem.

2001
01:46:49,000 --> 01:46:52,760
Speaker 2: Nobody had a clue. And then when they finished in

2002
01:46:52,920 --> 01:46:57,599
Speaker 2: mid October, they had back down to see and spend

2003
01:46:57,600 --> 01:47:01,960
Speaker 2: the winters in the estuary, perhaps nearby coastal areas.

2004
01:47:01,960 --> 01:47:04,519
Speaker 1: I don't know. No one knew what the hell they did.

2005
01:47:04,760 --> 01:47:05,360
Speaker 1: Nobody did.

2006
01:47:06,200 --> 01:47:09,559
Speaker 6: And like in brackish water like a high saltwater content.

2007
01:47:09,760 --> 01:47:12,240
Speaker 1: Yeah really, yeah, I didn't know that.

2008
01:47:12,520 --> 01:47:16,599
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and uh and and those they go down

2009
01:47:16,600 --> 01:47:19,840
Speaker 2: their feed all winter, whereas there was a lot of

2010
01:47:19,920 --> 01:47:23,759
Speaker 2: them since then, you know, telemetry programs with with the sheefish,

2011
01:47:24,640 --> 01:47:27,160
Speaker 2: a lot of them just sit in the Yukon. And

2012
01:47:27,240 --> 01:47:30,559
Speaker 2: I have this vision of them with their spectral fins

2013
01:47:30,600 --> 01:47:33,120
Speaker 2: in the gravel and their mouths open facing up river

2014
01:47:33,479 --> 01:47:35,439
Speaker 2: and just spending the winter that.

2015
01:47:35,360 --> 01:47:39,160
Speaker 7: Way, not feeding, just feeding, sit dormant.

2016
01:47:39,760 --> 01:47:45,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and so so that was that's one of

2017
01:47:45,360 --> 01:47:48,360
Speaker 2: the one of the papers that I just sent off

2018
01:47:48,360 --> 01:47:51,040
Speaker 2: to a journal. We'll see how they how they accept it,

2019
01:47:51,080 --> 01:47:53,960
Speaker 2: you know, they sent it out to review and and everything.

2020
01:47:54,000 --> 01:47:57,519
Speaker 2: But but I think it's it's an important piece because

2021
01:47:57,560 --> 01:48:01,800
Speaker 2: not all the populations do that, you know, spawning populations

2022
01:48:01,800 --> 01:48:04,160
Speaker 2: of the shefish. They some of them don't go to

2023
01:48:04,200 --> 01:48:08,080
Speaker 2: sea and some of them do and why who knows.

2024
01:48:08,160 --> 01:48:11,160
Speaker 2: But that's for somebody else to figure out. But so

2025
01:48:11,160 --> 01:48:14,960
Speaker 2: so that's what I did initially for my master's degree.

2026
01:48:15,560 --> 01:48:20,960
Speaker 2: And because I had done odalith chemistry work, the professors

2027
01:48:21,000 --> 01:48:23,040
Speaker 2: up there anybody else who wanted to go into odelith

2028
01:48:23,080 --> 01:48:27,000
Speaker 2: chemistry would get me tagged to be on their committees.

2029
01:48:27,760 --> 01:48:31,800
Speaker 2: And so I've been on twelve different graduate committees with

2030
01:48:31,920 --> 01:48:37,799
Speaker 2: people doing odalith chemistry work. And I think largely because

2031
01:48:37,800 --> 01:48:42,320
Speaker 2: of that, they the university gave me an honorary doctorate

2032
01:48:43,120 --> 01:48:43,880
Speaker 2: a few years ago.

2033
01:48:44,160 --> 01:48:44,880
Speaker 1: That's cool, man.

2034
01:48:45,200 --> 01:48:49,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, So so yeah, I got PhD.

2035
01:48:50,200 --> 01:48:54,840
Speaker 1: So to speak more or less, Uh, I got another

2036
01:48:54,920 --> 01:48:57,639
Speaker 1: question for you about the living in the bush versus

2037
01:48:57,640 --> 01:49:05,720
Speaker 1: coming into societ when you're on the bush like I'm

2038
01:49:05,720 --> 01:49:08,479
Speaker 1: trying to think of how to put this. You know,

2039
01:49:10,240 --> 01:49:14,120
Speaker 1: being alive now in today's atmosphere, you become very aware

2040
01:49:14,240 --> 01:49:21,200
Speaker 1: of all the cultural conversations, right and you become aware

2041
01:49:21,200 --> 01:49:24,640
Speaker 1: of like how you who you identify as? You know,

2042
01:49:24,720 --> 01:49:28,440
Speaker 1: you're like, Okay, I identify as, you know, an American,

2043
01:49:28,880 --> 01:49:31,559
Speaker 1: identify as a member of my family. I identify as

2044
01:49:31,600 --> 01:49:37,080
Speaker 1: a member of my community. Right when when everything's so

2045
01:49:37,240 --> 01:49:40,920
Speaker 1: stripped down, like the way it was, and you're not

2046
01:49:41,880 --> 01:49:45,160
Speaker 1: aware of all the like every little thing in the news,

2047
01:49:45,320 --> 01:49:49,360
Speaker 1: or every little societal fracture that's going on every blow

2048
01:49:49,479 --> 01:49:54,920
Speaker 1: of campaign and like the presidential campaign season, right, where

2049
01:49:54,960 --> 01:49:58,000
Speaker 1: do you sort of land in terms of what you

2050
01:49:58,200 --> 01:50:00,440
Speaker 1: are or what you identify as?

2051
01:50:01,320 --> 01:50:03,000
Speaker 3: Jemmy, Like do you feel like.

2052
01:50:02,680 --> 01:50:07,679
Speaker 1: Like, well, I'm an American, you know, or like where

2053
01:50:07,920 --> 01:50:12,000
Speaker 1: do you land at what you are? M m hmmm?

2054
01:50:12,720 --> 01:50:13,360
Speaker 1: Do you are you a.

2055
01:50:13,360 --> 01:50:15,360
Speaker 3: Community member of the Yukon?

2056
01:50:15,560 --> 01:50:15,720
Speaker 1: Like?

2057
01:50:15,720 --> 01:50:17,519
Speaker 3: Like what it sort of And if someone says like

2058
01:50:17,560 --> 01:50:18,960
Speaker 3: who are you? Like what are you?

2059
01:50:19,000 --> 01:50:24,360
Speaker 1: What? What would you have said you mean now, no, no,

2060
01:50:24,760 --> 01:50:26,240
Speaker 1: sorry when you were living in the bush, Like, what

2061
01:50:26,280 --> 01:50:28,240
Speaker 1: would you have said if someone asked you sort of

2062
01:50:28,400 --> 01:50:35,439
Speaker 1: explain yourself to me? You'ro what. Yeah, I it was.

2063
01:50:35,560 --> 01:50:38,720
Speaker 2: It was much more as a as a resident of

2064
01:50:38,800 --> 01:50:40,400
Speaker 2: the of the Woods.

2065
01:50:40,840 --> 01:50:41,320
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.

2066
01:50:41,360 --> 01:50:43,760
Speaker 2: I remember my brother came and visited me one time,

2067
01:50:43,840 --> 01:50:46,800
Speaker 2: flew in on a on a ski plane and we

2068
01:50:46,880 --> 01:50:50,360
Speaker 2: mushed around. It was in the winter, and he said,

2069
01:50:50,479 --> 01:50:54,479
Speaker 2: was during Reagan administration. Right, He's going like, how can

2070
01:50:54,560 --> 01:50:56,599
Speaker 2: you how can you sit out here? You know when

2071
01:50:56,760 --> 01:50:58,640
Speaker 2: the real world there's so many things going on?

2072
01:50:58,720 --> 01:50:59,080
Speaker 1: Is sais?

2073
01:50:59,120 --> 01:51:01,280
Speaker 2: I think this is the real world. That's how I felt,

2074
01:51:01,360 --> 01:51:03,240
Speaker 2: this is the real work. I didn't know that Reagan

2075
01:51:03,360 --> 01:51:05,920
Speaker 2: was president, right, I am no clue.

2076
01:51:06,000 --> 01:51:07,720
Speaker 3: That's kind of what That's what That's what I'm getting at.

2077
01:51:07,720 --> 01:51:08,479
Speaker 1: And I didn't care.

2078
01:51:09,000 --> 01:51:13,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, it didn't affect you, no, And I mean maybe

2079
01:51:13,439 --> 01:51:14,599
Speaker 2: it did, but yeah it did.

2080
01:51:14,680 --> 01:51:14,920
Speaker 1: It did?

2081
01:51:14,920 --> 01:51:17,240
Speaker 3: It did in a macro way. Yeah, like it did

2082
01:51:17,240 --> 01:51:17,919
Speaker 3: in a macro.

2083
01:51:17,800 --> 01:51:22,600
Speaker 1: Way, meaning you know, like like oil prices, right, you know,

2084
01:51:22,680 --> 01:51:24,800
Speaker 1: I mean like these things would come, these things would

2085
01:51:24,840 --> 01:51:25,280
Speaker 1: come for you.

2086
01:51:25,800 --> 01:51:28,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I didn't buy any gas because I didn't

2087
01:51:28,600 --> 01:51:29,480
Speaker 2: have any motors.

2088
01:51:29,680 --> 01:51:32,080
Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, like eventually it would be that

2089
01:51:32,120 --> 01:51:34,439
Speaker 1: you got a letter saying you got to move off

2090
01:51:34,479 --> 01:51:37,080
Speaker 1: the land. And that is in a macro sense, all

2091
01:51:37,120 --> 01:51:39,600
Speaker 1: this global stuff has impacted you. But that's like, but

2092
01:51:39,680 --> 01:51:41,920
Speaker 1: when you're out there, like that's the falls away. And

2093
01:51:42,120 --> 01:51:44,240
Speaker 1: just so you're a guy in the woods, Yeah you're

2094
01:51:44,280 --> 01:51:46,920
Speaker 1: not all pissed off about who's using what bathroom, not

2095
01:51:46,960 --> 01:51:50,680
Speaker 1: even guy guy in the woods, not even a little bit.

2096
01:51:50,760 --> 01:51:55,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've tried to bring it into I

2097
01:51:55,720 --> 01:51:57,840
Speaker 2: mean it. It was definitely a big part of of

2098
01:51:57,880 --> 01:51:59,880
Speaker 2: who I am and how I think about things, you know.

2099
01:52:00,640 --> 01:52:03,080
Speaker 2: You know that that all I don't know some of

2100
01:52:03,120 --> 01:52:05,960
Speaker 2: the some of the social issues that are so so

2101
01:52:07,200 --> 01:52:10,000
Speaker 2: much conflict right now. It's like I don't really care

2102
01:52:10,040 --> 01:52:13,479
Speaker 2: what somebody else does, you know, I just I just

2103
01:52:13,520 --> 01:52:17,080
Speaker 2: don't and or who somebody is, you know, I just

2104
01:52:18,680 --> 01:52:22,360
Speaker 2: I try to I try to treat people just like people,

2105
01:52:23,400 --> 01:52:26,639
Speaker 2: men and women here straight whatever, you know, I don't care.

2106
01:52:27,600 --> 01:52:29,599
Speaker 2: It's not my business. I have a hard enough time

2107
01:52:29,640 --> 01:52:32,360
Speaker 2: taking care of myself. I'm going to take care of

2108
01:52:32,360 --> 01:52:36,640
Speaker 2: everybody else too, or try to define their problems, I

2109
01:52:36,720 --> 01:52:37,120
Speaker 2: don't think.

2110
01:52:37,160 --> 01:52:39,519
Speaker 1: So do you have do you have any regrets about

2111
01:52:39,680 --> 01:52:42,599
Speaker 1: the timeline that you spent how you how you spent your.

2112
01:52:42,479 --> 01:52:46,400
Speaker 2: Life, not even a little bit. You know what was weird?

2113
01:52:47,080 --> 01:52:49,080
Speaker 2: All my friends at college when I said I'm gonna

2114
01:52:49,120 --> 01:52:50,719
Speaker 2: leave and I'm gonna go and live out, and was there.

2115
01:52:50,560 --> 01:52:51,559
Speaker 1: Going, you can't do that.

2116
01:52:51,640 --> 01:52:52,679
Speaker 2: You got to finish college.

2117
01:52:52,720 --> 01:52:54,439
Speaker 1: You know you're going to ruin your life and everything.

2118
01:52:55,520 --> 01:52:59,599
Speaker 2: Neither of my parents told me that at all. They

2119
01:53:00,120 --> 01:53:02,400
Speaker 2: I don't know what they thought I was getting into,

2120
01:53:03,720 --> 01:53:06,680
Speaker 2: but they didn't discourage me at all, not even a

2121
01:53:06,720 --> 01:53:07,080
Speaker 2: little bit.

2122
01:53:07,880 --> 01:53:09,920
Speaker 1: And I find that surprising.

2123
01:53:09,960 --> 01:53:12,439
Speaker 7: But do you still do like field work where you

2124
01:53:12,479 --> 01:53:15,720
Speaker 7: get to go spend extended period of time like out

2125
01:53:15,760 --> 01:53:16,760
Speaker 7: in the woods or.

2126
01:53:16,920 --> 01:53:20,680
Speaker 2: Two falls ago was my last field project. Over the

2127
01:53:20,760 --> 01:53:25,439
Speaker 2: last few years, I've been losing my central vision. It's

2128
01:53:25,439 --> 01:53:30,240
Speaker 2: a genetic mutation that doesn't usually affect older folks, but

2129
01:53:30,439 --> 01:53:33,720
Speaker 2: it is with me. So I have a hard time

2130
01:53:33,760 --> 01:53:36,679
Speaker 2: right now. I'm not driving, I can't read a book.

2131
01:53:36,720 --> 01:53:38,959
Speaker 2: I can read it on a computer with high contrast

2132
01:53:39,000 --> 01:53:42,160
Speaker 2: and stuff. But that last project I was we were

2133
01:53:42,200 --> 01:53:44,400
Speaker 2: fishing for sheafish and that was big enough.

2134
01:53:44,400 --> 01:53:45,000
Speaker 1: I could see it.

2135
01:53:45,840 --> 01:53:52,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, But but I wouldn't drive a boat right right now,

2136
01:53:52,479 --> 01:53:57,600
Speaker 2: and and I wouldn't be the one taking measurements and

2137
01:53:57,640 --> 01:54:01,439
Speaker 2: things like that. And so my my functionality in the

2138
01:54:01,479 --> 01:54:05,519
Speaker 2: field has has declined. To the point where I won't.

2139
01:54:05,680 --> 01:54:07,160
Speaker 2: I'm not going to be going out anymore.

2140
01:54:07,560 --> 01:54:09,639
Speaker 1: How old you know? Sixty six?

2141
01:54:10,760 --> 01:54:13,040
Speaker 2: Give me sixty seven in a couple of weeks.

2142
01:54:13,280 --> 01:54:14,599
Speaker 1: Give me a piece of marriage advice.

2143
01:54:18,840 --> 01:54:24,160
Speaker 2: I don't really know. I just I just I treat Karen.

2144
01:54:25,439 --> 01:54:33,560
Speaker 1: Like a princess. I have tried that yet, and I

2145
01:54:33,600 --> 01:54:34,080
Speaker 1: went wrong.

2146
01:54:34,640 --> 01:54:38,320
Speaker 7: You start out with a toilet paper move right.

2147
01:54:38,400 --> 01:54:38,600
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2148
01:54:38,720 --> 01:54:40,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's princess treatment.

2149
01:54:40,760 --> 01:54:41,560
Speaker 2: And the new cabin.

2150
01:54:42,480 --> 01:54:43,720
Speaker 3: Oh, that's princess treatment.

2151
01:54:43,840 --> 01:54:44,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, told me.

2152
01:54:44,920 --> 01:54:48,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I and and I just levered the pieces

2153
01:54:48,360 --> 01:54:50,960
Speaker 2: and and always have and always will.

2154
01:54:51,600 --> 01:54:55,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's been your attitude. It's been my attitude. Yeah,

2155
01:54:55,440 --> 01:54:57,480
Speaker 1: you're not like, well, I'll see next year. I'll see

2156
01:54:57,480 --> 01:55:03,560
Speaker 1: the next year after that, how I feel. No, that's god, man, dude.

2157
01:55:03,560 --> 01:55:05,080
Speaker 3: There's a lot of people that view of the world

2158
01:55:05,160 --> 01:55:05,480
Speaker 3: like that.

2159
01:55:05,560 --> 01:55:06,560
Speaker 1: Man, I get it.

2160
01:55:06,640 --> 01:55:10,720
Speaker 4: But are there any plans to live in the woods again?

2161
01:55:11,080 --> 01:55:16,360
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know. I don't know. I don't think so.

2162
01:55:16,640 --> 01:55:18,560
Speaker 2: I mean, we kind of live on the outskirts. We

2163
01:55:18,600 --> 01:55:21,720
Speaker 2: have a we have a forty acre plot of land

2164
01:55:22,280 --> 01:55:27,280
Speaker 2: with nice birch and spruce on it where the latest cabin,

2165
01:55:27,760 --> 01:55:34,360
Speaker 2: big big scribe blog place that I built. Let's see,

2166
01:55:34,360 --> 01:55:37,240
Speaker 2: I started in I started that one in my late forties,

2167
01:55:37,240 --> 01:55:37,880
Speaker 2: finished it in.

2168
01:55:39,960 --> 01:55:41,680
Speaker 1: Mid fifties. We've been living there for.

2169
01:55:43,320 --> 01:55:44,920
Speaker 6: Gotta let those things settle, you know.

2170
01:55:45,320 --> 01:55:50,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I love it. I love it. It takes

2171
01:55:50,040 --> 01:55:53,600
Speaker 2: a little work to man maintain. But got a great

2172
01:55:53,600 --> 01:55:58,160
Speaker 2: big sauna, baby wood fired sauna, which Dany helped get

2173
01:55:58,200 --> 01:56:03,000
Speaker 2: the stove for out of Wasilla. He and his boss

2174
01:56:03,040 --> 01:56:03,960
Speaker 2: went up and picked it up.

2175
01:56:04,080 --> 01:56:05,400
Speaker 7: He's still feeding yourself with.

2176
01:56:06,600 --> 01:56:11,120
Speaker 2: Uh, yeah, to some extent. Yeah, yeah, I went moose

2177
01:56:11,200 --> 01:56:13,840
Speaker 2: hunting this year, but we didn't. We didn't get anything,

2178
01:56:14,000 --> 01:56:18,480
Speaker 2: which is rare. So so my my moose hunting adventures

2179
01:56:18,480 --> 01:56:20,320
Speaker 2: have been to go up to that same place where

2180
01:56:20,360 --> 01:56:23,920
Speaker 2: we lived, up on the Candy and uh, there's just

2181
01:56:24,000 --> 01:56:27,520
Speaker 2: some good lookouts and open country and and you know,

2182
01:56:27,560 --> 01:56:29,240
Speaker 2: when you live in a place for long enough, you

2183
01:56:29,280 --> 01:56:31,720
Speaker 2: know where the moose are crossing and and so we've

2184
01:56:31,760 --> 01:56:37,560
Speaker 2: always seen sometimes several bowls and uh, and we go

2185
01:56:37,680 --> 01:56:39,440
Speaker 2: up a couple of my buddies and and I go

2186
01:56:39,560 --> 01:56:43,640
Speaker 2: up there and uh, and we've never come back without

2187
01:56:43,680 --> 01:56:45,720
Speaker 2: a moose except for this time.

2188
01:56:45,960 --> 01:56:48,520
Speaker 1: And we just never saw a bull. Do you guys call? Yeah,

2189
01:56:48,560 --> 01:56:51,800
Speaker 1: we call, Can you can you rip a call for me? Okay?

2190
01:56:51,880 --> 01:56:55,760
Speaker 2: So I have been around when cows call, So this

2191
01:56:55,840 --> 01:56:59,600
Speaker 2: is a real call. And and it is very similar

2192
01:56:59,680 --> 01:57:04,440
Speaker 2: to us to a cow, regular dairy cow ball.

2193
01:57:05,040 --> 01:57:11,040
Speaker 1: That's it. Mm, that's your call. It's a cow call. Yeah,

2194
01:57:11,080 --> 01:57:13,000
Speaker 1: you don't do any of that crazy cow call like.

2195
01:57:14,360 --> 01:57:18,120
Speaker 2: No, but they do that and and and so if

2196
01:57:18,120 --> 01:57:21,160
Speaker 2: it's a small bull, you want to do a cow call,

2197
01:57:22,120 --> 01:57:26,040
Speaker 2: guy's a big bull.

2198
01:57:25,160 --> 01:57:27,160
Speaker 1: Hit me with your normal like, hey, get out there,

2199
01:57:27,200 --> 01:57:29,560
Speaker 1: you're you're there, Okay, all right, boys, we're gonna start hunting.

2200
01:57:29,600 --> 01:57:32,400
Speaker 1: Everybody be quiet. You're gonna do what hit me with it?

2201
01:57:32,800 --> 01:57:35,520
Speaker 2: Well, if it's uh, if you're looking for a big bull,

2202
01:57:35,880 --> 01:57:38,360
Speaker 2: you know it's going to be a grunt.

2203
01:57:39,520 --> 01:57:41,280
Speaker 1: No, no, no, I mean the bowl noise, I mean

2204
01:57:41,280 --> 01:57:44,200
Speaker 1: the cow noise. I did do it.

2205
01:57:44,760 --> 01:57:50,040
Speaker 3: That's your main. That's your main. That's your main cow

2206
01:57:50,080 --> 01:57:50,920
Speaker 3: call that you're using.

2207
01:57:51,000 --> 01:57:54,680
Speaker 1: That is okay. You never do the big long plaintive.

2208
01:57:54,280 --> 01:57:59,000
Speaker 2: Like no, my buddy does this. Guy Scott McLean, he

2209
01:57:59,040 --> 01:58:03,120
Speaker 2: goes up there. He's got a fiberglass accelerator type thing

2210
01:58:03,800 --> 01:58:06,560
Speaker 2: and he'll do that and then do a couple of

2211
01:58:06,560 --> 01:58:08,720
Speaker 2: grunts afterwards, and it works.

2212
01:58:08,800 --> 01:58:12,919
Speaker 7: Too, But you were saying cow call for small bulls,

2213
01:58:13,120 --> 01:58:14,000
Speaker 7: bullgrunt for bid.

2214
01:58:14,000 --> 01:58:15,600
Speaker 2: So if you do a big grunt and it's a

2215
01:58:15,600 --> 01:58:17,440
Speaker 2: small bull, he doesn't want to be anywhere near a

2216
01:58:17,480 --> 01:58:21,640
Speaker 2: big bull, yep. And if we see a small bull around,

2217
01:58:21,640 --> 01:58:25,160
Speaker 2: we would always do cow calls and they'll come. And

2218
01:58:25,840 --> 01:58:28,800
Speaker 2: one of the beauties of this particular place is that

2219
01:58:28,840 --> 01:58:30,840
Speaker 2: you can see how these bulls are responding.

2220
01:58:31,160 --> 01:58:33,320
Speaker 1: I mean, they could be even a mile away, and.

2221
01:58:33,240 --> 01:58:37,200
Speaker 2: Then you'll see this this big antler's turn and they'll

2222
01:58:37,200 --> 01:58:39,080
Speaker 2: start walking your way. And if you do it too much,

2223
01:58:39,120 --> 01:58:41,800
Speaker 2: they'll they'll go away, And so you just want to

2224
01:58:41,880 --> 01:58:43,000
Speaker 2: let them do their thing.

2225
01:58:43,320 --> 01:58:46,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, why do you don't worry? We're going to

2226
01:58:46,280 --> 01:58:47,840
Speaker 1: wrap up pretty quick here. But it's got a couple

2227
01:58:47,800 --> 01:58:53,520
Speaker 1: of technical questions for you. In your mind, why would

2228
01:58:53,520 --> 01:58:58,120
Speaker 1: a bull walk two miles to come and do like

2229
01:58:58,320 --> 01:59:00,680
Speaker 1: walk like he's just coming, there's not nothing in the

2230
01:59:00,720 --> 01:59:03,000
Speaker 1: world's going to stop him. And then all of a

2231
01:59:03,000 --> 01:59:05,120
Speaker 1: sudden he's like, but I'm going to lay down, then walk.

2232
01:59:04,960 --> 01:59:07,920
Speaker 7: Away, lay down for a couple hours, then get up.

2233
01:59:07,840 --> 01:59:09,360
Speaker 1: There and then get up go the other direction, Like

2234
01:59:09,400 --> 01:59:11,160
Speaker 1: what is he what is in his mind?

2235
01:59:13,600 --> 01:59:15,840
Speaker 2: Well, I have no idea to tell you the truth.

2236
01:59:16,200 --> 01:59:21,440
Speaker 2: I I think that there are some bulls that get

2237
01:59:21,480 --> 01:59:26,960
Speaker 2: really damaged in fighting. Okay, we were watching there was

2238
01:59:27,000 --> 01:59:29,440
Speaker 2: a big bull and a little bowl, well a kind

2239
01:59:29,480 --> 01:59:35,000
Speaker 2: of a bullwinkle walking along this one open hillside at

2240
01:59:35,000 --> 01:59:37,960
Speaker 2: one point, and they were not responding to us at all,

2241
01:59:38,640 --> 01:59:41,800
Speaker 2: and the big bull would hit this little bowl every

2242
01:59:41,880 --> 01:59:44,560
Speaker 2: once in a while, and finally the little bowl turns

2243
01:59:44,600 --> 01:59:47,600
Speaker 2: around and nails him in the butt with his horns

2244
01:59:48,080 --> 01:59:52,840
Speaker 2: and then hauls out. And we watched them with the

2245
01:59:52,840 --> 01:59:55,520
Speaker 2: big bull after this little bull go over a couple

2246
01:59:55,600 --> 01:59:57,920
Speaker 2: of hills, across a stream, and then up another hill

2247
01:59:58,000 --> 02:00:01,040
Speaker 2: until they disappeared. But that little one had to know

2248
02:00:01,400 --> 02:00:04,280
Speaker 2: that he was going to be on the run because

2249
02:00:04,280 --> 02:00:07,360
Speaker 2: that bull was going after him. Yeah, and I think,

2250
02:00:07,760 --> 02:00:09,760
Speaker 2: I mean, we've we've got him when they've punctured.

2251
02:00:11,120 --> 02:00:13,120
Speaker 1: So he's coming in and he's like, man, I'm not

2252
02:00:13,160 --> 02:00:15,760
Speaker 1: going in there and fighting. I'm gonna linger on the

2253
02:00:15,800 --> 02:00:17,240
Speaker 1: outside and see what's happening.

2254
02:00:18,000 --> 02:00:21,480
Speaker 2: Or or he doesn't hear it again and and thinks

2255
02:00:21,520 --> 02:00:24,440
Speaker 2: it may be not there anymore.

2256
02:00:24,720 --> 02:00:27,080
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's hard to get in their head, man,

2257
02:00:27,520 --> 02:00:27,840
Speaker 1: I know.

2258
02:00:27,960 --> 02:00:29,800
Speaker 2: But I do know that if you if you grunt

2259
02:00:29,840 --> 02:00:32,200
Speaker 2: too much or if you call too much.

2260
02:00:32,800 --> 02:00:37,560
Speaker 1: Turns them off. Turn off. Yet, you know you mentioned

2261
02:00:37,560 --> 02:00:39,760
Speaker 1: that that little bull hitting that big bull and ass.

2262
02:00:41,120 --> 02:00:44,960
Speaker 1: Me and Seth last year were messing around with We

2263
02:00:44,960 --> 02:00:49,440
Speaker 1: were messing around with a there's a company, Dave Smith Decoys,

2264
02:00:49,440 --> 02:00:52,760
Speaker 1: and he makes a posturing buck. So it's a buck

2265
02:00:52,760 --> 02:00:57,000
Speaker 1: that's kind of all bristled up, and you'll see other

2266
02:00:57,040 --> 02:00:59,720
Speaker 1: bucks come and you always think when you see bucks fighting,

2267
02:01:00,440 --> 02:01:04,839
Speaker 1: you associate them being antler to Antler. Nos knows, of course, right, yeah,

2268
02:01:04,920 --> 02:01:08,720
Speaker 1: because they're squaring off. But here he is. He's looking

2269
02:01:08,760 --> 02:01:13,440
Speaker 1: at a buck, but the buck doesn't move, so you

2270
02:01:13,480 --> 02:01:16,440
Speaker 1: get to see what he would prefer how he would

2271
02:01:16,480 --> 02:01:19,840
Speaker 1: prefer to fight in a situation where the buck isn't

2272
02:01:19,880 --> 02:01:23,760
Speaker 1: always facing at him. He would prefer to fight, come

2273
02:01:23,760 --> 02:01:26,680
Speaker 1: in behind it, get alongside of it, and drill it

2274
02:01:26,760 --> 02:01:29,320
Speaker 1: right in the rib cage, like that's what he wants

2275
02:01:29,360 --> 02:01:31,920
Speaker 1: to do. Yeah, So you mentioned that little bull hitting

2276
02:01:31,920 --> 02:01:33,920
Speaker 1: that little bull in the ass or something like that,

2277
02:01:34,800 --> 02:01:37,040
Speaker 1: Like I imagine when they can get the jump on

2278
02:01:37,080 --> 02:01:39,160
Speaker 1: each other, they probably do. And that's a way different

2279
02:01:39,200 --> 02:01:41,960
Speaker 1: hit than hitting antler. Oh yeah, when you're driving those

2280
02:01:42,000 --> 02:01:44,360
Speaker 1: times into something.

2281
02:01:44,560 --> 02:01:49,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, every once in a while, these big bulls will

2282
02:01:49,640 --> 02:01:54,240
Speaker 2: lock their horns together, you see, get stuck. Yeah, And

2283
02:01:53,760 --> 02:01:56,800
Speaker 2: I've never seen it in practice, but I've seen those

2284
02:01:57,160 --> 02:02:01,880
Speaker 2: the sets of antlers that are put together. Department of

2285
02:02:01,880 --> 02:02:05,800
Speaker 2: Fishing Game in Fairbanks has one sticking hanging up right

2286
02:02:05,840 --> 02:02:10,400
Speaker 2: over there information thing and where people come in to

2287
02:02:10,440 --> 02:02:13,320
Speaker 2: get hunting license, fishing license and things like that. And

2288
02:02:13,360 --> 02:02:18,440
Speaker 2: there's also one in Eagle. This helicopter pilot had spotted

2289
02:02:18,960 --> 02:02:22,680
Speaker 2: these two bulls stuck together. It has to be a

2290
02:02:23,080 --> 02:02:27,680
Speaker 2: desperately bad situation for them because any wolf coming around

2291
02:02:27,800 --> 02:02:30,600
Speaker 2: or a bear coming around just starting eat them.

2292
02:02:31,200 --> 02:02:34,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're still shooting two forty three when you go

2293
02:02:34,400 --> 02:02:35,000
Speaker 4: moose hunting.

2294
02:02:35,200 --> 02:02:35,560
Speaker 1: You know what?

2295
02:02:35,600 --> 02:02:39,640
Speaker 2: I changed to a six ' five creed more. And

2296
02:02:39,720 --> 02:02:41,920
Speaker 2: the reason I did that is so I could shoot copper.

2297
02:02:42,560 --> 02:02:48,720
Speaker 2: Because despite what people's views are with lead, lead in

2298
02:02:48,760 --> 02:02:52,640
Speaker 2: the oval of deer down in California is what almost

2299
02:02:52,800 --> 02:02:56,600
Speaker 2: put California condors over the edge. And when they found

2300
02:02:56,640 --> 02:02:59,760
Speaker 2: out how that was going down, because they were testing

2301
02:02:59,760 --> 02:03:04,200
Speaker 2: these condors and they had lead poisoning. But they're eating

2302
02:03:04,240 --> 02:03:07,879
Speaker 2: that stuff where all of that lead fragment is sitting

2303
02:03:08,440 --> 02:03:12,240
Speaker 2: and scavenging all over the mountains there, and.

2304
02:03:12,200 --> 02:03:14,840
Speaker 7: The acid in their guts can break that lead down

2305
02:03:14,920 --> 02:03:16,720
Speaker 7: to where it becomes toxic, I suppose.

2306
02:03:16,800 --> 02:03:18,760
Speaker 1: So I think that's what the issue is.

2307
02:03:18,960 --> 02:03:23,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, but so so what I headshot with the with

2308
02:03:23,360 --> 02:03:26,440
Speaker 2: the two fourty three was one hundred grain hornity bullet,

2309
02:03:26,640 --> 02:03:29,320
Speaker 2: and bullets I think are everything. A lot of people say, oh,

2310
02:03:29,720 --> 02:03:32,120
Speaker 2: it's not big enough for Alaska game. They don't know

2311
02:03:32,160 --> 02:03:35,440
Speaker 2: what they're talking about. But that hundred grain horneday hunting

2312
02:03:35,480 --> 02:03:39,880
Speaker 2: bullet is it rolls back, it stays together, and uh

2313
02:03:39,960 --> 02:03:42,680
Speaker 2: and usually on a moose, if I shoot it just

2314
02:03:42,760 --> 02:03:45,440
Speaker 2: behind the shoulder, it'll be either in the ribs or

2315
02:03:45,480 --> 02:03:48,720
Speaker 2: the or the skin on the other side with a

2316
02:03:48,720 --> 02:03:52,080
Speaker 2: lot of bleeding through the lungs. And and if you

2317
02:03:52,120 --> 02:03:55,200
Speaker 2: shoot it right in the ear, it'll just shatter that

2318
02:03:55,720 --> 02:03:59,440
Speaker 2: big vertebrae right behind the head. So it's it's a

2319
02:03:59,560 --> 02:04:02,880
Speaker 2: it's a very very good bullet. And I've tried a

2320
02:04:02,920 --> 02:04:06,680
Speaker 2: lot of other bullets, like a nozzle partition. Nozzle partition

2321
02:04:06,840 --> 02:04:09,480
Speaker 2: do not work in a two forty three, And the

2322
02:04:09,560 --> 02:04:12,800
Speaker 2: reason for that is that back part of it doesn't

2323
02:04:12,840 --> 02:04:17,160
Speaker 2: have enough mass by itself. Once it explodes, the front

2324
02:04:17,160 --> 02:04:21,360
Speaker 2: part explodes, doesn't carry through. And I shot a couple

2325
02:04:21,360 --> 02:04:26,240
Speaker 2: of caribou with that load, and you have this grapefruit sized,

2326
02:04:26,760 --> 02:04:30,560
Speaker 2: you know, damage on the outside, but it never went

2327
02:04:30,600 --> 02:04:36,000
Speaker 2: into the lungs and it killed them. But it would

2328
02:04:36,040 --> 02:04:38,880
Speaker 2: not be a good bullet to have. And so so

2329
02:04:39,240 --> 02:04:42,600
Speaker 2: right now though, I wanted to go lead free. And

2330
02:04:43,360 --> 02:04:45,920
Speaker 2: if you go down to Copper in a two forty three,

2331
02:04:45,960 --> 02:04:48,280
Speaker 2: you're down to eighty eighty five grains.

2332
02:04:48,640 --> 02:04:49,560
Speaker 1: And I didn't want to go.

2333
02:04:49,560 --> 02:04:51,600
Speaker 2: There because there were people out there that shot twenty

2334
02:04:51,600 --> 02:04:56,839
Speaker 2: two two fifties and seventy grain bullets and they won't

2335
02:04:57,360 --> 02:05:02,640
Speaker 2: break the neck. They will kill a moose, and but

2336
02:05:02,760 --> 02:05:06,880
Speaker 2: they're they're you know, getting down there closer to the edge,

2337
02:05:07,760 --> 02:05:11,440
Speaker 2: and and the two forty three hundred grain that I

2338
02:05:11,640 --> 02:05:14,000
Speaker 2: was using will break any bone in the body, no

2339
02:05:14,080 --> 02:05:17,240
Speaker 2: matter what angle you're you're dealing with. Some people say, well, yeah,

2340
02:05:17,360 --> 02:05:19,680
Speaker 2: but you've got to be really precise you do with anything.

2341
02:05:19,960 --> 02:05:22,400
Speaker 2: You know, you've got to shoot a moose with a

2342
02:05:22,440 --> 02:05:25,560
Speaker 2: thirty hot six, it's going to run for long ways.

2343
02:05:26,840 --> 02:05:31,280
Speaker 2: And yeah, so so I tained change to a six

2344
02:05:31,360 --> 02:05:36,240
Speaker 2: y five creed More, same rifle, Winchester Model seventy and

2345
02:05:38,160 --> 02:05:40,360
Speaker 2: but it can shoot a twenty one hundred and twenty

2346
02:05:40,400 --> 02:05:41,480
Speaker 2: grain copper bullet.

2347
02:05:43,040 --> 02:05:47,280
Speaker 1: I like it. Uh, this was my last question for you. Yeah,

2348
02:05:47,480 --> 02:05:50,000
Speaker 1: then maybe the boy's got more questions for you too.

2349
02:05:50,000 --> 02:05:56,920
Speaker 1: But how do you feel what's your general attitude about

2350
02:05:58,520 --> 02:06:03,400
Speaker 1: protections of annwa are about the proposed Ambler.

2351
02:06:03,040 --> 02:06:09,320
Speaker 3: Road pebble mind, pebble mint, pebble mind.

2352
02:06:09,520 --> 02:06:12,000
Speaker 1: Like are you with the time you spent as more

2353
02:06:12,760 --> 02:06:15,760
Speaker 1: in kind of the equity you've built up in that place,

2354
02:06:17,720 --> 02:06:21,720
Speaker 1: do you encourage do you do you encourage that development

2355
02:06:22,520 --> 02:06:25,520
Speaker 1: around job creation or do you just want or do

2356
02:06:25,520 --> 02:06:27,800
Speaker 1: you have a view that you just want the wild

2357
02:06:27,800 --> 02:06:31,160
Speaker 1: to stay wild? Like? What what's your personal take as

2358
02:06:31,240 --> 02:06:33,080
Speaker 1: much as you're able to comment on that with your

2359
02:06:33,080 --> 02:06:33,920
Speaker 1: position at work?

2360
02:06:34,560 --> 02:06:37,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and sometimes I can't.

2361
02:06:37,920 --> 02:06:38,320
Speaker 1: I did.

2362
02:06:38,440 --> 02:06:43,760
Speaker 2: I was part of the the biological team on the

2363
02:06:43,800 --> 02:06:47,000
Speaker 2: e I S for the for the Arctic National Wildlife

2364
02:06:47,040 --> 02:06:49,880
Speaker 2: Refuge for the Coastal Plane and one of the big

2365
02:06:49,880 --> 02:06:53,480
Speaker 2: things that's that's an issue in that and they they

2366
02:06:53,600 --> 02:06:57,600
Speaker 2: put their opinion out I think it was last week

2367
02:06:58,800 --> 02:07:05,360
Speaker 2: on that the seis that was taking place. But there's

2368
02:07:05,400 --> 02:07:09,440
Speaker 2: no water out there, none of those rivers flow during

2369
02:07:09,480 --> 02:07:16,080
Speaker 2: the winter, and the oil production depends on that water

2370
02:07:16,480 --> 02:07:21,640
Speaker 2: a lot for ice roads, for the drilling, for the camps, everything.

2371
02:07:21,720 --> 02:07:27,400
Speaker 2: So there's a big hurdle for any of these companies

2372
02:07:27,720 --> 02:07:31,880
Speaker 2: to go in and develop that in that they're going

2373
02:07:31,920 --> 02:07:33,760
Speaker 2: to have to figure out how they're going to get water.

2374
02:07:34,120 --> 02:07:39,080
Speaker 2: There's six hundred meters of primafrost. There's a handful of

2375
02:07:39,120 --> 02:07:43,400
Speaker 2: these perennial springs that come from the south side of

2376
02:07:43,440 --> 02:07:47,880
Speaker 2: the Brooks Range, hit these big fault zones and go

2377
02:07:47,960 --> 02:07:52,040
Speaker 2: down and muscle their way up through there somehow. And

2378
02:07:52,040 --> 02:07:56,080
Speaker 2: and so there's this water in certain places that will

2379
02:07:57,160 --> 02:08:04,560
Speaker 2: provide a couple of kilometers of of habitat water that

2380
02:08:04,840 --> 02:08:07,160
Speaker 2: all of the fish in those streams like the Hula

2381
02:08:07,240 --> 02:08:13,080
Speaker 2: Hula or the Saddle of roach it that have that

2382
02:08:13,200 --> 02:08:17,480
Speaker 2: have fish in them, all of them are there. And

2383
02:08:17,640 --> 02:08:20,280
Speaker 2: the rest of the river goes dry in the winter.

2384
02:08:21,480 --> 02:08:24,920
Speaker 2: And that's true all across that coastal plain. Where they

2385
02:08:24,960 --> 02:08:25,400
Speaker 2: get water.

2386
02:08:25,800 --> 02:08:26,480
Speaker 1: I have no idea.

2387
02:08:26,560 --> 02:08:30,320
Speaker 2: Some people have thought, well, maybe they'll melt snow, maybe

2388
02:08:30,320 --> 02:08:32,880
Speaker 2: they'll do a dece out plant, maybe they'll truck it.

2389
02:08:33,080 --> 02:08:36,520
Speaker 2: But you know, you can't truck water across an ice road,

2390
02:08:36,560 --> 02:08:39,000
Speaker 2: you'll break it up and then you'll be just continually

2391
02:08:39,480 --> 02:08:43,840
Speaker 2: doing that. So there are some some steep hurdles to

2392
02:08:43,960 --> 02:08:45,320
Speaker 2: doing that, but.

2393
02:08:46,840 --> 02:08:47,400
Speaker 1: There are.

2394
02:08:47,760 --> 02:08:52,200
Speaker 2: And the last time that there were sails there, it

2395
02:08:52,360 --> 02:08:57,440
Speaker 2: was this development group with Alaska Ada that bought most

2396
02:08:57,440 --> 02:09:01,480
Speaker 2: of the most of the plots. Two companies from somewhere

2397
02:09:01,480 --> 02:09:05,080
Speaker 2: else that didn't have any capacity to develop them bought

2398
02:09:05,120 --> 02:09:07,240
Speaker 2: the other two. I think just on a speculation that

2399
02:09:07,520 --> 02:09:09,800
Speaker 2: if one of the big companies decided to go in there,

2400
02:09:09,840 --> 02:09:13,440
Speaker 2: they would have to buy those leases from them or something,

2401
02:09:13,480 --> 02:09:15,200
Speaker 2: and that was what Ada was doing too.

2402
02:09:15,240 --> 02:09:17,000
Speaker 1: Ada can't develop it either.

2403
02:09:17,560 --> 02:09:22,240
Speaker 2: And so it's it's I mean, they've showed from over

2404
02:09:22,280 --> 02:09:27,600
Speaker 2: in Prudo that they can develop without the oil without

2405
02:09:28,160 --> 02:09:31,480
Speaker 2: ruining places. But they got all the water in the

2406
02:09:31,480 --> 02:09:35,080
Speaker 2: world over there, so I don't know how they're going

2407
02:09:35,120 --> 02:09:38,280
Speaker 2: to do it. I don't No big company bid on

2408
02:09:38,320 --> 02:09:41,240
Speaker 2: the last group, and I think they probably also thought

2409
02:09:41,280 --> 02:09:45,120
Speaker 2: that okay, this is this is too fast, you know,

2410
02:09:46,160 --> 02:09:51,240
Speaker 2: and we got to see what happens, and so they

2411
02:09:51,280 --> 02:09:53,840
Speaker 2: have that ability. Right now, it's opened up for four

2412
02:09:53,920 --> 02:10:02,480
Speaker 2: hundred thousand acres of lands that people could companies could

2413
02:10:03,760 --> 02:10:06,440
Speaker 2: bid on. I'm not sure when they're going to do that.

2414
02:10:07,200 --> 02:10:12,240
Speaker 2: But but they'll have to figure out they would they

2415
02:10:12,240 --> 02:10:15,680
Speaker 2: would only want to bid if they have some sort

2416
02:10:15,680 --> 02:10:17,480
Speaker 2: of thought on how they would go about doing that,

2417
02:10:17,600 --> 02:10:19,440
Speaker 2: how would they would get over some of these.

2418
02:10:19,360 --> 02:10:22,680
Speaker 1: Hurdles because it's money out of pocket right off the

2419
02:10:22,720 --> 02:10:27,360
Speaker 1: bat for them. Yeah, yeah, so you can't because of

2420
02:10:27,400 --> 02:10:31,880
Speaker 1: your involvement, You don't. You're not You're not in a

2421
02:10:31,960 --> 02:10:34,160
Speaker 1: position to say, like what you hope happens or what

2422
02:10:34,200 --> 02:10:39,640
Speaker 1: you wish would happen, except with that would compromise your.

2423
02:10:39,000 --> 02:10:42,880
Speaker 2: So so I I don't. I don't really see it

2424
02:10:42,960 --> 02:10:45,040
Speaker 2: quite that way because I'm not. I'm not a player.

2425
02:10:45,040 --> 02:10:48,120
Speaker 2: And where whether it should or shouldn't understand and uh

2426
02:10:48,520 --> 02:10:51,840
Speaker 2: and uh, the the mining is is a little bit

2427
02:10:51,840 --> 02:10:54,040
Speaker 2: of a different issue. I wrote a piece in our

2428
02:10:54,440 --> 02:10:59,040
Speaker 2: Community Perspective for for the Fairbanks Daily News miner on

2429
02:10:59,160 --> 02:11:03,160
Speaker 2: some of the mining prospects around in the interior and

2430
02:11:03,400 --> 02:11:07,240
Speaker 2: just laid out the dynamics of acid mind drainage and

2431
02:11:07,480 --> 02:11:11,440
Speaker 2: the longevity of it, you know how far into the

2432
02:11:11,480 --> 02:11:14,480
Speaker 2: future it will continue to have to be taken care of.

2433
02:11:15,200 --> 02:11:19,280
Speaker 2: And the newspaper and I just everybody else puts just

2434
02:11:19,320 --> 02:11:21,120
Speaker 2: their name and where they live, and that's what I did.

2435
02:11:21,160 --> 02:11:24,080
Speaker 1: But the news miner looked me up. I mean they've.

2436
02:11:24,080 --> 02:11:27,280
Speaker 2: They've I write letters to the editor every once in

2437
02:11:27,320 --> 02:11:31,120
Speaker 2: a while. They know who I am, and they they

2438
02:11:31,160 --> 02:11:34,120
Speaker 2: put my affiliation with Fish and Wildlife Service, and I

2439
02:11:34,200 --> 02:11:36,960
Speaker 2: got a little bit of a spanking for that, even

2440
02:11:37,000 --> 02:11:39,600
Speaker 2: though I didn't do it, and I didn't put it

2441
02:11:39,640 --> 02:11:45,680
Speaker 2: on there myself. But Pebble is one of those that

2442
02:11:46,200 --> 02:11:49,760
Speaker 2: has not been approved, but they're going to as long

2443
02:11:49,800 --> 02:11:51,680
Speaker 2: as the minerals are there. Somebody's going to come back

2444
02:11:51,720 --> 02:11:54,360
Speaker 2: over and over and over until maybe the politics.

2445
02:11:53,840 --> 02:11:55,560
Speaker 1: Are right to be able to do it.

2446
02:11:55,840 --> 02:11:58,160
Speaker 2: But that's in Bristol Bay, right And it's it's on

2447
02:11:58,360 --> 02:12:01,040
Speaker 2: that past going over one side down to the New

2448
02:12:01,120 --> 02:12:04,080
Speaker 2: Shigak Great Big Fish River, the other side down to

2449
02:12:04,120 --> 02:12:08,200
Speaker 2: Lake Iliamna. The biggest of this Saki runs in all

2450
02:12:08,240 --> 02:12:11,160
Speaker 2: of Bristol Bay. Bristol Bay is booming, It's been booming

2451
02:12:11,200 --> 02:12:15,400
Speaker 2: for a long time. And and that is I mean,

2452
02:12:15,440 --> 02:12:18,600
Speaker 2: that fishery is booming. The fishery, yeah, and and.

2453
02:12:18,480 --> 02:12:21,600
Speaker 1: It's kind of the hottest fishery in the globe. Yeah.

2454
02:12:21,680 --> 02:12:26,400
Speaker 2: And and that Pebble mine is an acid mine, and

2455
02:12:26,680 --> 02:12:32,120
Speaker 2: it would require taking care of for thousands of years.

2456
02:12:33,160 --> 02:12:33,920
Speaker 2: How does that work?

2457
02:12:36,600 --> 02:12:37,280
Speaker 1: That's pretty young.

2458
02:12:39,960 --> 02:12:42,360
Speaker 2: I don't know how the hell that works myself. So

2459
02:12:42,440 --> 02:12:45,720
Speaker 2: I wrote a piece, you know, detailing that for the

2460
02:12:46,600 --> 02:12:48,760
Speaker 2: for the Mancho mine, the Mancho mine out in their

2461
02:12:48,840 --> 02:12:54,000
Speaker 2: Tetlan is is also an acid mine. And the state

2462
02:12:54,160 --> 02:12:58,120
Speaker 2: and the tribe have and the companies involved have have

2463
02:12:58,320 --> 02:13:01,800
Speaker 2: gotten through without having an eis done. And nobody knew

2464
02:13:01,840 --> 02:13:05,800
Speaker 2: it was an acid mine. And I had gotten some

2465
02:13:05,840 --> 02:13:08,560
Speaker 2: of the some of the documents from somebody that had

2466
02:13:08,600 --> 02:13:10,760
Speaker 2: gotten it through a public records thing and thought that

2467
02:13:10,840 --> 02:13:15,680
Speaker 2: it was and h and brought that to light. But

2468
02:13:16,640 --> 02:13:21,200
Speaker 2: they're doing it anyway, and and how it'll play out.

2469
02:13:23,760 --> 02:13:26,240
Speaker 2: Maybe they can take care of it. They think they can,

2470
02:13:26,840 --> 02:13:29,080
Speaker 2: but it hasn't been looked at from a broader audience.

2471
02:13:30,040 --> 02:13:32,480
Speaker 2: But Tetlan will rue the day they did that if

2472
02:13:32,520 --> 02:13:40,480
Speaker 2: it if it isn't going to be contained on their end. Yeah,

2473
02:13:40,520 --> 02:13:43,720
Speaker 2: it's a big deal. We've got a bunch of them

2474
02:13:43,720 --> 02:13:46,240
Speaker 2: in lower forty eight here that are you know, I

2475
02:13:46,320 --> 02:13:49,720
Speaker 2: call them, you know, oozing sores on the landscape. My

2476
02:13:49,800 --> 02:13:52,520
Speaker 2: geologist friend of mine said he thought that was kind

2477
02:13:52,520 --> 02:13:53,640
Speaker 2: of over the top.

2478
02:13:53,440 --> 02:13:56,200
Speaker 1: But well, has he been to Berkeley Pitt, I know,

2479
02:13:56,440 --> 02:13:57,240
Speaker 1: down the road here.

2480
02:13:57,280 --> 02:14:00,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, and.

2481
02:14:00,200 --> 02:14:03,560
Speaker 1: That one is gonna go on little outlass humanity. It will.

2482
02:14:03,640 --> 02:14:06,680
Speaker 6: And that's like an example I always use, right because

2483
02:14:06,680 --> 02:14:09,520
Speaker 6: people are like, oh, well, technology has changed so much

2484
02:14:10,040 --> 02:14:13,080
Speaker 6: that you're thinking about this old stuff. I'm like, okay, well,

2485
02:14:14,000 --> 02:14:17,840
Speaker 6: so the Berkeley pit as an example where like a

2486
02:14:17,840 --> 02:14:21,600
Speaker 6: bird lands on it, it dies, right, is that taken

2487
02:14:21,640 --> 02:14:22,560
Speaker 6: care of? In your mind?

2488
02:14:22,960 --> 02:14:25,800
Speaker 4: Like technology has made that?

2489
02:14:25,880 --> 02:14:26,240
Speaker 1: Okay?

2490
02:14:27,720 --> 02:14:29,600
Speaker 6: Like I don't, I don't understand the argument.

2491
02:14:29,760 --> 02:14:33,680
Speaker 2: Right, Well, the state has a has a policy that

2492
02:14:34,440 --> 02:14:37,920
Speaker 2: if somebody is opening up the earth in an acid mind,

2493
02:14:37,960 --> 02:14:38,440
Speaker 2: that they have.

2494
02:14:38,440 --> 02:14:40,960
Speaker 1: To put aside a huge bond.

2495
02:14:42,200 --> 02:14:46,440
Speaker 2: That will take care of maintenance on you know, in

2496
02:14:46,760 --> 02:14:52,680
Speaker 2: in perpetuity, they call it. And I mean, I you know,

2497
02:14:52,760 --> 02:14:56,800
Speaker 2: I don't think that societies are gonna are gonna you know,

2498
02:14:56,840 --> 02:14:59,440
Speaker 2: there isn't an investment fund that you could guarantee that

2499
02:15:00,560 --> 02:15:02,640
Speaker 2: it's going to be true for very long.

2500
02:15:03,840 --> 02:15:05,080
Speaker 1: So oh yeah.

2501
02:15:05,120 --> 02:15:07,520
Speaker 6: And that's why like a lot of these companies, uh,

2502
02:15:08,160 --> 02:15:10,280
Speaker 6: they have working permits in the state that they're in,

2503
02:15:10,400 --> 02:15:13,960
Speaker 6: but they're not based there. They're based internationally. Yeah, to

2504
02:15:14,000 --> 02:15:16,400
Speaker 6: give them a little more protection, should they just so

2505
02:15:16,520 --> 02:15:17,920
Speaker 6: happen to default on that.

2506
02:15:18,560 --> 02:15:20,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I think that's the way it is

2507
02:15:20,880 --> 02:15:21,440
Speaker 1: in Alaska.

2508
02:15:21,480 --> 02:15:24,960
Speaker 2: Most of these big companies are Canadian or Australian or something.

2509
02:15:26,000 --> 02:15:30,280
Speaker 1: Well, my kids were real little. I made the mistake

2510
02:15:30,320 --> 02:15:32,520
Speaker 1: one time of explaining to them this idea that the

2511
02:15:32,560 --> 02:15:36,480
Speaker 1: sun will burn out, you know, like the sun's kind

2512
02:15:36,520 --> 02:15:38,720
Speaker 1: of like in its midlife crisis right now, you know,

2513
02:15:39,720 --> 02:15:41,800
Speaker 1: and that as there'd be a day when the sun

2514
02:15:42,360 --> 02:15:45,400
Speaker 1: like it's not getting recharged. Yeah, you know, the Sun

2515
02:15:45,480 --> 02:15:51,760
Speaker 1: like theoretically will burn out and the solar system will die.

2516
02:15:51,960 --> 02:15:54,520
Speaker 1: And that messed them up because they couldn't They couldn't

2517
02:15:54,520 --> 02:15:57,840
Speaker 1: picture the geological time I was talking about, you know,

2518
02:15:58,200 --> 02:16:00,720
Speaker 1: so I kept trying to walk it back. Wow, probably

2519
02:16:00,720 --> 02:16:03,600
Speaker 1: not won't really happen, you know. But now I've taken

2520
02:16:03,640 --> 02:16:06,800
Speaker 1: to now they're older, I'll tell them, I said, Man,

2521
02:16:06,920 --> 02:16:10,560
Speaker 1: someday like all people are gonna be gone. People are

2522
02:16:10,560 --> 02:16:14,320
Speaker 1: gonna be gone, and a bunch of time is gonna

2523
02:16:14,360 --> 02:16:16,320
Speaker 1: go by, and the Earth's gonna be full of all

2524
02:16:16,320 --> 02:16:18,680
Speaker 1: these kind of new crazy animals and it's gonna be

2525
02:16:18,680 --> 02:16:25,280
Speaker 1: sweet here, you know, So don't worry about the future.

2526
02:16:24,360 --> 02:16:28,240
Speaker 3: They like that version better they like that better than

2527
02:16:28,280 --> 02:16:29,080
Speaker 3: the sun going out.

2528
02:16:29,280 --> 02:16:29,440
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2529
02:16:29,520 --> 02:16:32,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's a hard thing to grapple with, even

2530
02:16:32,080 --> 02:16:34,320
Speaker 2: as an adult, when you're.

2531
02:16:34,160 --> 02:16:37,039
Speaker 3: Talking about these mines. Yeah, a thousand year mind.

2532
02:16:38,000 --> 02:16:41,360
Speaker 1: But yeah, and then you know, it's like you're stuck

2533
02:16:41,360 --> 02:16:45,279
Speaker 1: with the contradiction, right, Like we all got these phones

2534
02:16:45,360 --> 02:16:50,320
Speaker 1: and you know, titanium fucking coffee mugs when you're camping and.

2535
02:16:50,240 --> 02:16:52,600
Speaker 3: Ship you know, I mean it's like it's you know, it's.

2536
02:16:52,400 --> 02:16:54,400
Speaker 1: A mass man being alive is hard.

2537
02:16:56,120 --> 02:17:03,200
Speaker 2: Well, that's true, yeah, yeah, situation. Yeah, but the responsibility

2538
02:17:03,240 --> 02:17:06,280
Speaker 2: of financial responsibility of the of the public to take

2539
02:17:06,280 --> 02:17:09,640
Speaker 2: care of these places after these mining companies take it.

2540
02:17:11,080 --> 02:17:13,400
Speaker 2: You know, I don't see the oil in the same way.

2541
02:17:13,600 --> 02:17:15,880
Speaker 2: You know, there's other issues with oil, but it's it's

2542
02:17:15,920 --> 02:17:19,320
Speaker 2: not you know, poisoning the landscape in that way.

2543
02:17:22,560 --> 02:17:27,680
Speaker 1: So, man, I appreciate you coming down to talk. My

2544
02:17:27,720 --> 02:17:31,200
Speaker 1: brother was right, Danny is right. I should get you

2545
02:17:31,240 --> 02:17:35,240
Speaker 1: on the show. I think you've got to come back

2546
02:17:35,280 --> 02:17:36,199
Speaker 1: again someday though.

2547
02:17:36,360 --> 02:17:38,280
Speaker 6: Oh I got so many questions. We just don't have

2548
02:17:38,320 --> 02:17:38,800
Speaker 6: any time.

2549
02:17:40,600 --> 02:17:46,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, what a deal. So you're going from here to

2550
02:17:46,160 --> 02:17:48,120
Speaker 1: see that boy of years that you raised up in

2551
02:17:48,160 --> 02:17:51,120
Speaker 1: the woods, that yeah, yeah, I am doing that.

2552
02:17:51,840 --> 02:17:54,920
Speaker 2: His daughter's so his his older daughter is.

2553
02:17:56,360 --> 02:18:04,320
Speaker 1: His jewel j o U l e. Right. Oh you

2554
02:18:04,720 --> 02:18:10,240
Speaker 1: like the like the vight Yeah.

2555
02:18:08,320 --> 02:18:10,759
Speaker 7: Like like like like energy.

2556
02:18:10,480 --> 02:18:14,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, not like.

2557
02:18:16,600 --> 02:18:20,039
Speaker 2: Some of its head some of his friends. Some of

2558
02:18:20,080 --> 02:18:21,960
Speaker 2: his friends were trying to talk him out of it.

2559
02:18:22,720 --> 02:18:25,520
Speaker 2: She'll have to tell teachers how to how to spell

2560
02:18:25,560 --> 02:18:28,440
Speaker 2: it and everything like that. And and I think it's

2561
02:18:28,440 --> 02:18:30,800
Speaker 2: a great name, but you may have to pay for it,

2562
02:18:33,360 --> 02:18:37,880
Speaker 2: so anyway. Yeah, and then Neviy, their younger daughter. She's

2563
02:18:37,959 --> 02:18:38,560
Speaker 2: wonderful too.

2564
02:18:38,640 --> 02:18:39,320
Speaker 1: That's pretty name.

2565
02:18:39,959 --> 02:18:43,720
Speaker 2: That uh n e with an accent v he with

2566
02:18:43,760 --> 02:18:47,279
Speaker 2: an accent. So that's a certain kind of a snow

2567
02:18:47,360 --> 02:18:50,240
Speaker 2: on high altitudes really in the mountains.

2568
02:18:50,320 --> 02:18:54,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, sounds like you raised your boy, right Yeah. I

2569
02:18:54,280 --> 02:18:54,720
Speaker 1: hope so.

2570
02:18:56,680 --> 02:18:58,560
Speaker 3: Well, Man, thanks so much for coming on. Man, it's

2571
02:18:58,600 --> 02:18:59,080
Speaker 3: been great.

2572
02:18:59,440 --> 02:19:00,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, you bet.

2573
02:19:00,360 --> 02:19:03,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's still a story or two to tell about.

2574
02:19:03,160 --> 02:19:05,800
Speaker 1: I tell that man, you're an interesting guy. Man.

2575
02:19:06,280 --> 02:19:10,039
Speaker 9: Yeah, we didn't even get into like fish like Oh

2576
02:19:10,080 --> 02:19:12,160
Speaker 9: I want to hear more about the dogs and just

2577
02:19:12,240 --> 02:19:12,879
Speaker 9: weird stuff.

2578
02:19:15,040 --> 02:19:17,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. I wanted to get into staying real warm when

2579
02:19:17,440 --> 02:19:20,760
Speaker 1: it's forty below zero, no tent, but we'll have to

2580
02:19:20,879 --> 02:19:23,400
Speaker 1: you have to come back. Yeah, yeah, we did that.

2581
02:19:23,560 --> 02:19:25,480
Speaker 1: We come back. We come back on the show. Just

2582
02:19:25,480 --> 02:19:32,920
Speaker 1: for a technical technical, purely technical questions. Backwoods know how, Yeah, yeah,

2583
02:19:32,920 --> 02:19:33,640
Speaker 1: I do it. Yeah.

2584
02:19:34,120 --> 02:19:36,680
Speaker 4: Just coordinate it with your next trip down to visit

2585
02:19:36,720 --> 02:19:37,240
Speaker 4: the family.

2586
02:19:37,800 --> 02:19:41,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I definitely do that. It's like a family

2587
02:19:41,320 --> 02:19:45,160
Speaker 2: at Albuquerque too. Okay, and so one way or another.

2588
02:19:45,000 --> 02:19:48,200
Speaker 1: Do little Rocky Mountain loop. Yeah. Yeah, you're going to

2589
02:19:48,280 --> 02:19:49,760
Speaker 1: run the spine of the Rockies all the way to

2590
02:19:49,840 --> 02:19:54,040
Speaker 1: the end. Yeah, that's what That's what it would be.

2591
02:19:55,120 --> 02:19:57,600
Speaker 1: Oh man, Well, thank you very much, thank you, thanks

2592
02:19:57,720 --> 02:19:59,960
Speaker 1: thanks for having me. This has been great. Appreciate it.

2593
02:20:00,160 --> 02:20:09,880
Speaker 8: Yeah, well the hun day is over, and this time

2594
02:20:10,040 --> 02:20:17,000
Speaker 8: to pack it in. STEVEE got another and I got

2595
02:20:17,120 --> 02:20:17,960
Speaker 8: skunked again.

2596
02:20:20,240 --> 02:20:25,439
Speaker 4: But that or I can mountain sunset this afternoon was pleasing.

2597
02:20:27,720 --> 02:20:30,480
Speaker 4: But it's my last dead campsule.

2598
02:20:30,560 --> 02:20:39,599
Speaker 8: I'll see you next season. There's nothing alike the sunrise

2599
02:20:39,959 --> 02:20:41,840
Speaker 8: over mountains in the fall.

2600
02:20:44,200 --> 02:20:49,280
Speaker 4: Now I hear distant bugle, these answering my call.

2601
02:20:51,400 --> 02:20:55,480
Speaker 8: If we may see the warden, if we give him

2602
02:20:55,560 --> 02:20:56,240
Speaker 8: a reason.

2603
02:20:58,520 --> 02:21:02,080
Speaker 4: But it's my last day in camp, so I'll see

2604
02:21:02,120 --> 02:21:12,080
Speaker 4: you next season. If I trall another I'll be back

2605
02:21:12,160 --> 02:21:12,800
Speaker 4: here again.

2606
02:21:13,879 --> 02:21:18,840
Speaker 8: We'll find out in the summer when the lottery calls in.

2607
02:21:19,600 --> 02:21:20,920
Speaker 2: My fingers crossed.

2608
02:21:21,000 --> 02:21:28,080
Speaker 1: My friend all wish every.

2609
02:21:27,879 --> 02:21:28,840
Speaker 2: One good luck.

2610
02:21:29,480 --> 02:21:34,600
Speaker 8: I'm heading home then this evening, because it's my.

2611
02:21:34,840 --> 02:21:38,840
Speaker 2: Last day in camp, and I'll see you next season.

2612
02:21:41,080 --> 02:21:43,080
Speaker 1: I'll see you next season.