Speaker 1: Movie producer John Pinnatti is best known for his work
Speaker 1: on the smash hit Crazy Rich Asian, But what you
Speaker 1: may not know is his producing work in Asia and
Speaker 1: other territories around the world. Now he's here to talk
Speaker 1: about his innovative strategy that's about as unlikely a breakthrough
Speaker 1: as Crazy Rich Asians itself. Thanks for coming in, John, Hello,
Speaker 1: and I'm really glad to be here, glad to have you.
Speaker 1: You are no stranger to the movie business. Your name
Speaker 1: has been attached to a lot of great indie films
Speaker 1: from in the Bedrooms a Prairie Home Companion, But then
Speaker 1: your career took a big turn. So walk us through
Speaker 1: the before and after, and eventually we'll get too. Crazy
Speaker 1: Rich Asians terrific. I began actually as a assistant director
Speaker 1: for Sidney Lamett in the late nineties. Um he was
Speaker 1: benevolent enough to take me on as a a wayward
Speaker 1: medical student who decided that wasn't going to really work
Speaker 1: out for me, and he allowed me to train alongside
Speaker 1: he in a very tight knit group of filmmakers, crew, etcetera.
Speaker 1: Who basically made a career just working on Sydney Lamett movies.
Speaker 1: And I was fortunate enough to join that family and
Speaker 1: trained in physical production and under his UH close tutelage.
Speaker 1: When I started working with Sydney, I just loved the process.
Speaker 1: I loved how he thought about making movies. I loved
Speaker 1: how he prepared. And that led to creating a company
Speaker 1: in New York City that focused on the um breaking down, budgeting, scheduling,
Speaker 1: and helping to make sense out of what was on
Speaker 1: the page and executing on screen. That company h was
Speaker 1: called Concrete Productions. Soon after, I started a company called
Speaker 1: Green Street Films in the mid nineties. We worked outside
Speaker 1: the studio system. All of the financing for our films
Speaker 1: came from independent equity participants. We we worked a lot
Speaker 1: with Wall Street investors, and we just maybe out of
Speaker 1: necessity and lack of experience, we didn't really look toward
Speaker 1: the studio system for our financing, and that was kind
Speaker 1: of a wonderful way to control what we wanted to make.
Speaker 1: And starting with Lisa piccard Is Famous and The Chateau
Speaker 1: and several other movies UH in the late nineties, and
Speaker 1: then including In the Bedroom, which was in two thousand
Speaker 1: and one, I believe we just were kind of eclectic.
Speaker 1: If something interests us, then we could figure out if
Speaker 1: financing plan we made it. And the independent film at
Speaker 1: that time at Circle was it a good business to
Speaker 1: be in. It was a terrific business to be in
Speaker 1: because at the time there were buyers and there were
Speaker 1: several buyers. Uh, Mirror Max was leading the pack for sure,
Speaker 1: but along with Merri Max you had Fine Line and Warners,
Speaker 1: Independent and um Think Films and other terrific outlets who
Speaker 1: were looking for independent films and finding a strategy to
Speaker 1: release those films. And for several years, including some of
Speaker 1: our crossover stuff like Uptown Girls and Swim Fan. I
Speaker 1: mean really, we would just make whatever interest us we
Speaker 1: and we'd figure out, almost as an afterthought, how we
Speaker 1: would distribute it. And for the most part we got
Speaker 1: very lucky with that. That sounds so different than what
Speaker 1: the film businesses today. You hit it on the head, Andrew,
Speaker 1: that is that was a uh not just a different time,
Speaker 1: but it was a different way to think about equity
Speaker 1: risk in films. Uh. For us, we always felt there
Speaker 1: was a way to work it out. So if you
Speaker 1: were fortunate enough to attract multiple buyers, you had an
Speaker 1: auction and still exists now for sure. But you're able
Speaker 1: to sell it. If for some reason the film fell
Speaker 1: short of attracting a theatrical there were still ways, uh
Speaker 1: to um mitigate your risk, whether it was international sales,
Speaker 1: whether it was a non theatrical release. Here and remember
Speaker 1: at this point, Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, all the streamers were
Speaker 1: not part of our consciousness or anyone's consciousness. Uh, but
Speaker 1: the DVD business is still robust, and people looked at
Speaker 1: ancillary as UH, if we had enough elements, maybe there
Speaker 1: was a way to work our way out of um
Speaker 1: A a less than optimal theatrical film. UM And that
Speaker 1: was great and helped balance our business to probably the
Speaker 1: mid two thousands, when it doesn't seem like too long ago,
Speaker 1: but I guess it was. These terrific independent distribution entities
Speaker 1: were disappearing, like before our eyes. Warners went out at
Speaker 1: Warners Independent went out of business, Think went out of business. Uh.
Speaker 1: Merrimax was in a transition between UM that label and
Speaker 1: the Weinstein Company. UM Fine Line I believe no longer
Speaker 1: existed right at that time. And I'm sure I'm missing others,
Speaker 1: but we just got caught. We got caught with several
Speaker 1: several millions of dollars. Of investment in a slate of
Speaker 1: films and uh really no one to sell them to.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm exaggerating, but it was pretty close to that.
Speaker 1: Um So if you missed the mark on some of these,
Speaker 1: the the downside could have been catastrophic. Um So that
Speaker 1: was a tough time, and we kind of had to
Speaker 1: look inside ourselves and say, Okay, how do we work
Speaker 1: our way out of this? UH quired cutting back um
Speaker 1: on the size of the company, the uh incremental investments
Speaker 1: we were going to take after that, and we really
Speaker 1: just focused on the films we had in production and
Speaker 1: how to work our way out of them. Um But
Speaker 1: could it domestically facing business as you were running back
Speaker 1: then continue to survive more or was it about finding
Speaker 1: a completely different model? Uh? It wasn't going to survive
Speaker 1: for us. Maybe there were other companies who had a
Speaker 1: different strategies, but for us we were so um um
Speaker 1: dependent on our upside coming from a domestic sale that
Speaker 1: for us the model fell apart. And for me that
Speaker 1: was a um an aha moment where I said, Wow,
Speaker 1: I never want to be in a position again where
Speaker 1: external forces could so radically upset the course of our business.
Speaker 1: UM So I did, but I maybe anybody else would do.
Speaker 1: I looked to greener pastures, and to me, Asia represented that. Um,
Speaker 1: I should say, I don't think the average producer wouldn't
Speaker 1: necessarily look to Asia because that is a completely different
Speaker 1: world as the film business go. UM. Maybe I guess
Speaker 1: from my point of view, living in New York City, UM,
Speaker 1: having my closest of friends not in the film business
Speaker 1: but in finance and law and international commerce, it kind
Speaker 1: of seemed logical at that point, not necessarily from the
Speaker 1: place of well, what's happening in the film business there,
Speaker 1: but place of what's happening in trade there, what's happening
Speaker 1: in commerce and um. And also I had to always
Speaker 1: had an inclination towards you know, great Asian films that
Speaker 1: I would never thought I'd be making, but I would
Speaker 1: enjoy and quite frankly, what do I have to lose?
Speaker 1: You know? At that point I didn't believe in the
Speaker 1: model anymore. The money was still there. Quite frankly, we
Speaker 1: had done well enough that there were still investors, but
Speaker 1: I couldn't take investors money for a model I no
Speaker 1: longer believed in. So what did you see exactly in
Speaker 1: Asia that spoke to you as opportunity. So um I
Speaker 1: landed in Beijing on kind of a fact finding mission
Speaker 1: that included in that first ship a visit to Hong
Speaker 1: Kong and a visit to Seoul. And the first thing
Speaker 1: I saw, or the first thing I was introduced to,
Speaker 1: was some two thousand and ten two thousand eleven was
Speaker 1: the idea that the government was going to support a
Speaker 1: growing film industry, and it was yet to materialize. Meeting
Speaker 1: there was obviously a handful of incredible Chinese directors, but
Speaker 1: it had not yet taken a turn into no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: we're going to make this work. And what I saw funny.
Speaker 1: The first set of meetings I had were not really creative.
Speaker 1: They were about construction and how many theaters were being built.
Speaker 1: And so as a Westerner in from the movie business
Speaker 1: entering into these meetings, the questions were in about hey,
Speaker 1: do you have material, do you know directors? How do
Speaker 1: you make movies? It was about anyone you can introduce
Speaker 1: us to who could help advise on the building at theaters.
Speaker 1: And if you recall around this time, and I don't
Speaker 1: know the exact date, but AMC had been purchased and
Speaker 1: there was a lot of attention given to UM, how
Speaker 1: do we use the expertise of Western exhibition companies to
Speaker 1: help build here. Maybe I wasn't involved at that level,
Speaker 1: but the next level down, every real estate developer wants
Speaker 1: to understand how they could build theaters. And that kind
Speaker 1: of clicked in my head and said, well, something's going
Speaker 1: on here. Someone clearly is getting a signal from the
Speaker 1: Chinese government, from Chinese financiers that we need to invest
Speaker 1: in infrastructure. So that that actually started the path. It
Speaker 1: wasn't aha moment of there's five great directors I want
Speaker 1: to work with in China. It was about this is
Speaker 1: coming and we're not going to stop it, and it's
Speaker 1: going to be something. UM. We're going We from the West,
Speaker 1: both from a finance and production point of view, are
Speaker 1: going to have to take notice of. I know it's
Speaker 1: an often quoted UM statistic and I haven't checked recently,
Speaker 1: but for many years, two screens per day we're coming
Speaker 1: online in China, UM, and that includes Saturday and Sundays,
Speaker 1: as I always like to say, UM. And I'm not
Speaker 1: even sure what the penetration is now, but absolutely there's
Speaker 1: more to go UM where you know I would arrive
Speaker 1: in a second tier city. So travel from Beijing to
Speaker 1: um Chin Dao and um and someone would say, yes,
Speaker 1: Toruistic city, they have ten million people in it. That's
Speaker 1: a second tire city. And there's eight theaters. And there's
Speaker 1: just mind boggling to me. And not that that existed,
Speaker 1: but that the amount of growth possible was still ahead
Speaker 1: of us UM. So these theaters needed content. What was
Speaker 1: your first moves? So the first thing we did was
Speaker 1: um A. The gentleman I met there an American who
Speaker 1: had been living in Asia for thirty years, a gentleman
Speaker 1: named Robert Friedland who's been in disparate businesses UH mining
Speaker 1: and resources. He was the original investor in serious satellite
Speaker 1: radio believe it or not. UM He had some inkling
Speaker 1: toward uh UM entertainment, but more he had the connections
Speaker 1: within China and he introduced me to um several companies,
Speaker 1: one called Poli which was a formerly a state owned
Speaker 1: company that UMU had holdings in auction houses, had a
Speaker 1: film technology and also distribution. At one point they had
Speaker 1: been um UH Polly Bona was an entity that was
Speaker 1: a um UM connection between Pauli the company I mentioned
Speaker 1: in Bona, which um eventually spun off to be a
Speaker 1: terrific distributor today in China. UM, but at this point
Speaker 1: they had spun off. We made a deal with Poulli
Speaker 1: to cooperate to develop projects together and that was the
Speaker 1: first step into formalizing relationships in China. UM and that
Speaker 1: would ended up while we did. While no films came
Speaker 1: out of it, a lot of understanding of the structure
Speaker 1: and particularly in China became more clear to us. Who
Speaker 1: were the people making the decisions, how was the government
Speaker 1: truly supporting the ascension of the Chinese film market? Just
Speaker 1: key and something we would have never been able to
Speaker 1: uh take advantage of without this particular investor and now
Speaker 1: my partner Robert Friedland helping UM. That was the first
Speaker 1: uh we realized quickly, or I realized quickly that in
Speaker 1: order to get to some momentum here, because we remember,
Speaker 1: we didn't have a slate of films, we didn't have
Speaker 1: a pipeline of films that would work in Asia, whether
Speaker 1: it be in English that are we're telling Asian stories
Speaker 1: or local language Mandarin films. So UM we decided to
Speaker 1: do a deal with Fox International Productions, which at the
Speaker 1: time was a terrific organization within Fox that Uh, we're
Speaker 1: really early adopters of this idea of producing local content
Speaker 1: for the indigenous markets, and we made a deal with them.
Speaker 1: They we agreed to comb finance films in China, India, Japan,
Speaker 1: Korea and Taiwan. For us, it was a transformative deal.
Speaker 1: So all of a sudden, with as that deal came online,
Speaker 1: we had access now to Foxes terrific production slate in
Speaker 1: their development pipeline. We looked into countries that would interest us,
Speaker 1: trying to for sure worked. Korea is a country that
Speaker 1: we started with Fox there. I'm sorry. We we started
Speaker 1: our work in Korea via our deal with Fox. UM
Speaker 1: ended up having some terrific successes there with director Naha
Speaker 1: Jin's film of the whaling or locally known as Guck
Speaker 1: Sung Um and that helped us as a company establish
Speaker 1: our own relationships on the ground. We UM duplicated that
Speaker 1: effort in India. UM in China for sure again under
Speaker 1: the auspices of our co financing co production deal with
Speaker 1: Fox International Productions UM. So when Fox when f I
Speaker 1: p UM took a detour and started to UM for
Speaker 1: whatever the internal inclinations in Fox happened, we were there
Speaker 1: to continue the efforts. And by this point we had
Speaker 1: our own relationships. We could go directly to the distributors. Um,
Speaker 1: we could go directly to the filmmakers. And that moment,
Speaker 1: uh is when really my eyes opened. I said, wait
Speaker 1: a second, we could do this on our own. We
Speaker 1: could be a mini international local language studio as long
Speaker 1: as we were willing to get on flights and deal
Speaker 1: with translations and all of that extra step you need. Um.
Speaker 1: And it's just been a wonderful business and intellectual and
Speaker 1: social experience. But it's no small feat because companies bigger
Speaker 1: than yours have sort of knocked on international door. Zen
Speaker 1: felt discouraged. They've tried and failed. What were you doing
Speaker 1: that was succeeding? You couldn't use the word precedent, so
Speaker 1: if you thought in precedent, you were dead. So when
Speaker 1: when we will go into a market. Even now we're
Speaker 1: shooting in Mexico, we're in we're making a movie in
Speaker 1: Indonesia as we speak. Many country total are un so
Speaker 1: we're in seven Um, not shooting at any one time,
Speaker 1: but there's a seven countries that at least now we
Speaker 1: have resources and material that we own that's going to
Speaker 1: grow in two thousand nineteen, we're going to expand in
Speaker 1: Latin America, which we see is fertile for us UM.
Speaker 1: But this is the idea that you can't walk into
Speaker 1: a new market, especially ones who you for sure have
Speaker 1: their own filmmaking apparatus. What do we offer? And one
Speaker 1: things we offer a flexibility. So not only do we finance,
Speaker 1: and not only do we bring our Western system of
Speaker 1: development and production and post production, but we have to
Speaker 1: bring flexibility and dailmaking. And the companies you're referencing or
Speaker 1: your you may be alluding to are usually older companies
Speaker 1: who are built on precedent um who may not value
Speaker 1: the small winds that we look very positively on because
Speaker 1: we're doing this for the long run. Just can't move
Speaker 1: quickly enough. There's the legal contractual challenges, there's the talent
Speaker 1: relationship challenges. Um. We just and I know it sounds
Speaker 1: um um um self serving, but we really go into
Speaker 1: every negotiation like you want to do it differently. Here great,
Speaker 1: we know we know the bottom line of what we
Speaker 1: need to be covered, but we don't really get held
Speaker 1: up by any institutional drag on our side to stop
Speaker 1: the problem the reduction train. So here you are, you know,
Speaker 1: making significant headway and all sorts of countries. And yet
Speaker 1: eighteen came around and it turned out instead of uh,
Speaker 1: these you know, local films in the local language that
Speaker 1: you were specializing in, Crazy Rich Asians, a movie for
Speaker 1: the American market primarily blows up and explodes. How did
Speaker 1: you get there, especially considering that really wasn't the focus,
Speaker 1: not at all. Although early in two thousand fourteen or
Speaker 1: the end of two thousand thirteen, as we were formalizing
Speaker 1: I don't know Pictures, which eventually has been morphed into
Speaker 1: sk Global, we could talk about that, uh and a
Speaker 1: bit um. We didn't have any content. So we found
Speaker 1: ourselves as a fully financed company working out of New
Speaker 1: York at that time, building the relationships I mentioned through
Speaker 1: our Foxdale and just leg work, and we hadn't yet
Speaker 1: really understood or we hadn't yet gotten to the place
Speaker 1: where we could make decisions for a local market that
Speaker 1: requires being there, requires quite frankly, we may never truly
Speaker 1: understand what a Thaie audience would want. Um, So we
Speaker 1: need our Thai partners to help us with that. When
Speaker 1: Crazy which Asian's came along, there was a comfort zone
Speaker 1: and for us, and I guess I guess we didn't
Speaker 1: realize that at the time. But for us, we had
Speaker 1: already been a tuned and I personally had been a
Speaker 1: tuned to um being in Asia, being in Singapore at
Speaker 1: that point, I was spending six months a year there,
Speaker 1: uh in and around Greater Asia. UM. So when when
Speaker 1: I found this book, it just seemed familiar to me,
Speaker 1: and it was just the opposite of what one would say.
Speaker 1: It was like, Ah, that's that's something that happens in Asia.
Speaker 1: To me, it just it eelt like more of the
Speaker 1: decisions I was making at Greenstreet Films, where wow, this
Speaker 1: is a personal story, this is a personal journey, but
Speaker 1: look there's a context for it on a more broad scope,
Speaker 1: and for us, it fits in this general mandate we
Speaker 1: were that we were looking towards Asia. It was as
Speaker 1: simple as that. And I think the second thing is
Speaker 1: there wasn't financial competition for it at that point, so
Speaker 1: it it didn't fit in as a studio film, just
Speaker 1: as at in the Galley form, or as as Kevin Qualms,
Speaker 1: the author of Pravor Crazy Rich Asians book now has become.
Speaker 1: At that point, it was just a good story that
Speaker 1: happened to be focused in Asia. UM, So I don't
Speaker 1: know that we really thought that hard about it. We
Speaker 1: just said, well, we need stuff that works toward Asian
Speaker 1: By the way, this is a film probably needs we
Speaker 1: could offer something because it still needs a Western point
Speaker 1: of view to build it. We were super, super lucky
Speaker 1: to read it get excited about it. Just as Kevin
Speaker 1: Kwan was meeting Hollywood producers, Um, he had agreed to
Speaker 1: work with Nina Jacobson and Brad Simpson from Color Force
Speaker 1: and who Um, really this is their sweet spot, taking adaptation,
Speaker 1: taking books and leading them through their adaptation. They did
Speaker 1: it well on Hunger Games and Diary of a Wimpy
Speaker 1: Kid and now many other projects. So for me, we
Speaker 1: just got lucky. You know. I expressed interest in financing
Speaker 1: the film, um the Kevin's agent at the time. So
Speaker 1: that's great. We have two uber producers here who want
Speaker 1: to get guide the development. And it kind of was
Speaker 1: one of the simplest tales I've ever made, because nobody
Speaker 1: was even looking at it, at least from the world
Speaker 1: I live in. We're we're not a Hollywood company. We're
Speaker 1: in at this point, we're operating on and West Broadway
Speaker 1: and Soho in New York City. So for us, we
Speaker 1: just saw some material clearly great producers who are already attached,
Speaker 1: and we and it fell under this kind of broad
Speaker 1: construct of well, I haven't Hope Pictures is doing is
Speaker 1: looking to do work in Asia. They'll be fine with it.
Speaker 1: And it was nothing more magical than that. Well, you
Speaker 1: mentioned Ivan Hope Pictures sk Global, I think you need
Speaker 1: to sort of walk through the holy trinity of John
Speaker 1: Panatti's film brands. It's it's complicated. It's complicated. That's exactly
Speaker 1: what it is. Um So, I mentioned Green Street Films.
Speaker 1: That's a film company that I ran out of New
Speaker 1: York City with Fisher Stevens for several years. We started
Speaker 1: in and in fact our backer at the time was
Speaker 1: a gentleman named Sidney Kimmel. Um We in the early
Speaker 1: two thousand's, Fisher and I continued running Green Street, but
Speaker 1: at this point a new financier had come in Sydney
Speaker 1: was moving his operation to l A. He was leaving
Speaker 1: his day job as the chairman of UH Jones New
Speaker 1: York and Jones Apparel, a big fashioned brand that he built.
Speaker 1: Um So, he went on to start Sydney Kimmel Entertainment
Speaker 1: in l A. We stuck in New York building Green
Speaker 1: Street Films up cut to two thousand and thirteen. UM
Speaker 1: I made a deal with Robert Friedland sold the Green
Speaker 1: Street Films asset. At this point we had about thirty
Speaker 1: films in the library. UM we sold Robert the Robert Friedlin,
Speaker 1: who again is lived in Asia. We sold in the
Speaker 1: company under the condition that together we started a company
Speaker 1: called Ivanhope Pictures that was decidedly Asia facing for all
Speaker 1: the reasons we talked about. Robert was intent on us
Speaker 1: looking east and I agree to that. So that actually
Speaker 1: started Ivan Picked years so I have no pictures. Ran
Speaker 1: for three or four years. I eventually moved to Los Angeles.
Speaker 1: UM I hooked back up with my dear friend Sidney Kimmel.
Speaker 1: He asked me to come on and oversee Sydney Kimmel Entertainment,
Speaker 1: which I did. For a period of time. I was
Speaker 1: running both companies UH and kind of made sense because
Speaker 1: there were two different time zones and as long as
Speaker 1: I was willing to work around the clock, it worked. Eventually,
Speaker 1: Robert and Sydney got to know each other. I suggest
Speaker 1: that we should merge the company's we did. Uh. The
Speaker 1: resulting company of ivan Hope Pictures in Sydney Kimmel Entertainment
Speaker 1: is a company called sk Global that is the parent company. Uh,
Speaker 1: we remain. We we kept the Ivanhoe Pictures label in
Speaker 1: the Sydney Kimmel Entertainment label alive. And depending on what
Speaker 1: content we're shooting, if it's a local language picture in Indonesia,
Speaker 1: more likely that's going to be under the ivan Oe
Speaker 1: Pictures And if it's something like Greta, the Neil Jordan's
Speaker 1: film that's coming out this year, or Hell or high
Speaker 1: Water or other more traditional Sydney Kumulo and entertainment films,
Speaker 1: they fall under that banner. Well, so on the Sydney
Speaker 1: Kimmel side, would that be Greta is one production that's
Speaker 1: coming out soon. You also have a show coming to Netflix,
Speaker 1: Deli Crime, that that would come from Ivanhoe Ivanhoe and
Speaker 1: it's going to be on Netflix India but also available
Speaker 1: to all Netflix worldwide. Yeah. So that to direct um
Speaker 1: outgrowth of our comfort zone and working in local language,
Speaker 1: Richie Meta wrote and directed eight episodes of a true
Speaker 1: crime story called Deli Crime. We partnered with Golden Caravan
Speaker 1: who is a Moon Bay, an l A based production
Speaker 1: finance company run by a great group of executives. We
Speaker 1: uh we all agree to just jump in and finance
Speaker 1: and produce those eight episodes. We were fortunate enough to
Speaker 1: bring him to Sundance a few weeks ago where we
Speaker 1: made a deal with Netflix. Netflix Now we'll put all
Speaker 1: eight completed episodes on the service on March of this year,
Speaker 1: and they've also agreed to a second season that will
Speaker 1: be released in two thousand twenty. So it's sort of
Speaker 1: an interesting new phase for you. And first of all,
Speaker 1: you're branching out into television and not just film, but
Speaker 1: also you're dealing now with a different group of buyers
Speaker 1: and Netflix and the others. What is that like for you?
Speaker 1: It's a great outgrowth of why I believe I Haven't
Speaker 1: Know Pictures was wealth positioned to start in two thousand
Speaker 1: thirteen because at this point now there was a model
Speaker 1: uh coming becoming clear again at least on the Ivan
Speaker 1: Olk pictures side, where if we could find good local content,
Speaker 1: maybe now there was a global opportunity. So when we
Speaker 1: go into any of the countries we work in, we
Speaker 1: are absolutely understanding the local market, know that the vast,
Speaker 1: vast majority of our revenues will be made in that
Speaker 1: um um that particular country. However, we're just internationalized and
Speaker 1: how we see the world and how we see content.
Speaker 1: So one of our opportunities and advantages in the local
Speaker 1: market is convincing directors that we are actually looking outwards
Speaker 1: for their their content, will take it to can as
Speaker 1: we did with the Whaling, or will help have it
Speaker 1: distributed in Western Europe, which we have on several of
Speaker 1: our local language films that happened to dovetail perfectly with
Speaker 1: these streamers appetite to own worldwide rights and take that
Speaker 1: um um what would once seem like a a very
Speaker 1: indigenous title in Thailand and now find an audience elsewhere. Uh.
Speaker 1: Thankfully it fits how we think about content, how we
Speaker 1: the local to global aspect of content making drives us
Speaker 1: as filmmakers, and now we have an access point for that.
Speaker 1: So in some ways, the Deli Crime the television show,
Speaker 1: really has its roots in um our hope that interesting
Speaker 1: stories told as locally as possible could have a global
Speaker 1: um um context, and Deli Crime clearly demonstrates that, and
Speaker 1: I think that's kind of drives us and if and
Speaker 1: right there. That's a business model where we could say,
Speaker 1: you know what, if we could continue to grow revenues
Speaker 1: outside of the local market and thoughtfully develop the right
Speaker 1: content that could make that move. We feel good about that,
Speaker 1: and I think you're going to see more and more
Speaker 1: um um examples of that, for sure from us, but
Speaker 1: I also think from other investors and filmmakers who who
Speaker 1: who see the world um outside of just the nationalistic boundaries.
Speaker 1: Maybe a lesson for even beyond the film industry, I'm sure.
Speaker 1: But one last question one that kind of brings it
Speaker 1: full circle to something you said earlier about having the
Speaker 1: kind of business that's not dependent on external forces. But
Speaker 1: in this land of Netflix, Amazon and other big giants
Speaker 1: that are presumably bigger than anything you've dealt with in
Speaker 1: your career, are you not still somewhat dependent on external forces? Um?
Speaker 1: So we try to in the local markets. We try
Speaker 1: to um measure our risks very very rarely, and there
Speaker 1: are exceptions like Deli Crime, but very rarely will we
Speaker 1: do a local film without a local distribution partner to
Speaker 1: start with. So because you do, we we can't possibly
Speaker 1: understand all the machinations of an audiences um appetite in
Speaker 1: each of these countries. We very much rely on our
Speaker 1: local partner and our local distribution partner to help us
Speaker 1: with that. Um as what you said is very important.
Speaker 1: You will never just is just not the business. If
Speaker 1: you want full coverage and you're not willing to take risk,
Speaker 1: you should not be in this business. It's just not
Speaker 1: it's not a tune to that we're we are um
Speaker 1: um constitutionally um um okay, with a certain amount of risk.
Speaker 1: So and we just hope we stay slightly ahead of
Speaker 1: the market and slightly ahead of buyers to know we
Speaker 1: could deliver something to them what it will look like
Speaker 1: three years from now. You're absolutely right, and maybe a
Speaker 1: wholly different context. You know, we may be um making
Speaker 1: content for streaming or platforms that we don't even we
Speaker 1: can't even understand yet that have some kind of toelco
Speaker 1: um opportunity. Yeah, just it's just unclear. But really, what's
Speaker 1: I think has been fun and has helped us is
Speaker 1: we try to say a little bit ahead of this
Speaker 1: by being on the ground because we think the growth
Speaker 1: is in these international markets for us that at least
Speaker 1: it is and as long as we're there, you know,
Speaker 1: we're now doing a lot of work in Vietnam, so
Speaker 1: but it's two years in the making. We haven't even
Speaker 1: come close to our first film. But that's okay. It
Speaker 1: took us three years to agree to do something in
Speaker 1: Indonesia and now our first film is starting March five.
Speaker 1: So we're patient in that regard, and I think we
Speaker 1: have to be because while the world moves very fast,
Speaker 1: it still takes time to get to the place where
Speaker 1: you're comfortable. You're comfortable with the risk profile. I wonder
Speaker 1: whether you are due for something that could be like
Speaker 1: the reverse of a crazy rich Asians, where instead of
Speaker 1: taking say, what might be viewed as a primarily Asian
Speaker 1: story and selling it to an American audience, you take
Speaker 1: a say, with Daily Crime, a native Indian story that
Speaker 1: actually sort of plays well and the rest of the world.
Speaker 1: And I think there's that increased appetite material. I one
Speaker 1: think that's happening. I think you have you know, often
Speaker 1: referenced um UM examples like Narcos, which Netflix did a
Speaker 1: wonderful job of internationalizing UM. So it's happening already. I
Speaker 1: think you're God willing, We're going to do it enough
Speaker 1: so that uh, one of our productions it just hits
Speaker 1: that sweet spot with with getting audiences minds open to
Speaker 1: an experience that they wouldn't normally never get, and I'd
Speaker 1: like to do that quite funking. On the theatrical side,
Speaker 1: you know, I love streaming, It's a big part of
Speaker 1: our business, but at the core, I still love going
Speaker 1: to a theater. So I'm hoping we could find a
Speaker 1: context for a film that does does do exactly what
Speaker 1: you're saying, does catch people who catch Western audiences imagination
Speaker 1: for a story that um might have originate in Asia,
Speaker 1: for instance. That's a dream, John. I wish you luck
Speaker 1: in your pursuit of that success. We'll be watching. Thank you, Andrew,
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. This has been another episode of
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